Jiang Xueqin Finally Breaks His Silence With PBD | PBD #772

30 seconds did you ever think you would make it I feel I'm supposed to take sweet victory I know this life meant for me Adam what's your point the future looks bright my handshake is

better than anything I ever signed right here you are a one -on -one my son's right there I think I've ever said this before so my guest today is Gian Chiechuin and I did my best to pronounce the last name I've been looking forward to uh the conversation with you for quite some time the day the interview came out with you and um I believe it was a saga and Crystal which I thought it was fascinating how a man uh in July of 2024 can predict that Trump's gonna win then he's gonna go to war against Iran and then Iran's gonna win which was your prediction and I said I want to talk to him and then so let's get the nasty stuff out of the way because I actually want to have a civil conversation with you I'm actually very curious about why you think the way you think uh one at the beginning

when we had that uh our team reached out to you uh to get on the podcast and I think on a podcast you said you thought it was going to be a hit piece interview what gave

you the impression I was going to do a hit piece on you well it was just a timing because the day you got in touch um there was a coordinate smear campaign against me on Twitter meaning that there were some influencers who were using the same talking points against me um just saying that I just make stuff um up and uh it seemed very similar so I was very afraid also at that time I was in a lot of stress so I didn't want to put myself in a situation where um I would be asked hard questions and I didn't think I would be able to respond properly to um to hard questions and I watched your show I'm a huge fan of yours Patrick so I I know I know you're very good you ask very good questions I

appreciate that and and that's a fair assessment and then again the other part I want to get out to you is um when you were on there and Professor not Professor we've all seen that viral stuff that's been out so if you're comfortable I'm going to call you young if that's okay with you as we're going through it that's perfect that's perfect beautiful yeah absolutely so so so I appreciate that uh question for you so when you said again I've seen the entire interview and I've seen a lot of your stuff because what I like is seeing what the market is saying and why right some people have certain patterns and your experience is a very interesting one because you went to college you've lived in Canada you're now in uh Hong Kong if I'm not mistaken no no no Beijing I'm sorry my apologies you're in Beijing right now and so you have a

very interesting perspective of these three different worlds and there's a lot of things to talk about what what uh what analysis or what patterns did you notice for you to say you know not the first one that Trump was going to win because let's set that one aside but the one that U.S is going to go to war with Iran and then we're going to lose what gave you the analysis or something to say

I think that's what's going to happen right so um in school I teach history and I try to teach world history an entirety of human history stretching from the cave paintings uh and during the United States about 10 000 years ago to today and while teaching history I've noticed some patterns emerge in history and the major pattern is how empires tend to decline and they decline so empires believe that they are invincible and that no one can touch them so they engage in activities that are not very strategic um for example the Persians invaded the Greek mainland in about 490 BCE with a massive invasion force and they were destroyed by the Greeks and then the Athenian Empire which emerged after the Persian Empire started to engage in hubris as well and in the during the Peloponnesian war against Sparta they launched an ill -advised silly invasion of Sicily um and they lost the war

because of this uh invasion and so a pattern emerges where empires in decline they tend to engage in risky um Wars that they believe they can win easily but which but which forces them to expand valuable resources on a quagmire so most recent example of course was Vietnam Vietnam so it is my belief that um if the United States would go to war with Iran then it would lose this war because the United States would not have the manufacturing capacity the large industrial network in order to sustain a war in the mountainous terrain of Iran and so the big question was would Iran go to war uh sorry would the United States go to war with Iran if you look at Trump's first presidency um there were clear signs that he was being uh being heavily influenced by Israel uh he moved the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem he promoted the Abraham Accords

um he recognized Israel's control over the Golan Heights uh he ordered the assassination of General Qasem salamani in January 2020. and so if he had a second term he would have most certainly gone to war against Iran so that's how I came to my

conclusion got it that's fair and by the way there's a very book a good book a book written by Jim Collins where he says uh why the mighty fall why the mighty fall and he goes through five steps stages of the Glenn and it validates what you're saying number one is hubris born of success we're great because we're great and we're untouchable right number two an undisciplined pursuit of more we all fall for this trap when we succeed uh let's go do more faster bigger right number three is denial of risk and peril which is we're fine we have nothing to worry about number four is grasping for salvation this is what we need to say but we need help and then number four is capitulations to irrelevance or irrelevance or death which is over I'm a Syrian trust me we lost our Empire many many years ago and we were very very powerful we

don't have a country right now so you have to always stay a little bit paranoid about what could happen now let me go to the tweet of what President Trump uh posted on Truth Social this morning the world is reacting to it a lot of people are not happy a lot of people are curious some people are saying this uh uh but I would say a lot of the people are probably on this is crazy what's about to happen today JD Vance said something this morning that it's probably coming to an end a whole civilization President Trump said on Truth Social a whole civilization will die tonight never be brought back again I don't want that to happen but it probably will however now that we have complete and total regime change where different smarter and less radicalized minds prevail maybe something extraordinary wonderful can happen who knows we will find out tonight one of

the most important moments in the long and complex history of the world 47 years of extortion corruption and death will finally end God bless the great people of Iran how do you interpret that tweet um I think

that Trump is trying to go for Maximus leverage in negotiation but the reality is that the Iranians um will not back down and then American forces already assembled in the Middle East so I think that we will see a ground invasion as early as this weekend and it'll be a multi -vector ground invasion meaning that right now the Americans are attacking Kark Island which is where uh Iran will export nine percent of its oil from and so the Americans intend on seizing Kark Island and strangling the Iranian economy there will probably be an attack on Kassam Island as well in order to also control of the of Hormuz there will also be an attack on the Iranian coastline in order to um Scout out your defenses so I think that we are approaching a major escalation or next few days so

so try to decode this because the average person who reads this they say who talks like that you know what do you mean a whole civilization will die tonight never bad brought back again but if you're somebody that's you you seem like a pattern recognition type of guy and you kind of watch how people speak and we know this is how he speaks right he's not the most predictable guy he's got predictable side but also unpredictable side decode what he's saying here is is this is last chance of negotiation for there not to happen is this his last chance of saying I hope somebody says hey let's go out there and negotiate with them because Pakistan tried to bring the peace deal on both sides and U .S declined it and so did Iran so if you were to decode this a little

bit more on where president's Minds at what would you say well I would say that Trump um has a history of working in reality TV he thinks in terms of television he asked himself what will draw attention what will look good on TV what will get people very emotional and afraid and anxious so he spent a lot of time in the world wrestling um uh in entertainment with Vince McMahon that they had a few a television feud and that's really how you speak in the WWE you are rhetorical you are bombast bombastic and you try to instill fear and rage in uh people um um and so what Trump is trying to do is he's trying to have him pop it's really flexing the other issue that's very worrying right now is that Trump has surrounded himself with advisors who are psychophants and they're not actually relaying laying to relaying to him uh good strategic

uh so for example um what just happened this weekend was that Trump announced the rescue of a down American pilot and if you watch the press conference yesterday um he fought a tremendous success and was very proud of the military for doing the impossible going deep into enemy lines and rescuing a wounded uh pilot um and this is a great tribute to the professionalism and self -sacrifice of the American military to the special forces but on Twitter on X on social media what they're saying is that um this was actually not necessarily a successful rescue operation it seems that evidence is emerging that this was a failed seizure a failed attempt to seize uh Iran's uranium enriched uranium in the Azafan uh power plant and if that is the case then that was an extremely risky um mission and um it and it's very consequential because America lost about 300 million dollars worth of planes

and equipment in this failed raid so my concern is that Trump has surrounded himself with advisors who feed his ego and Trump himself believes that just by flexing just by taking a very tough negotiating uh position he can bully the Iranian nations into a compromise um so I think that um we are in a very precarious situation right now

what do you think though worst case that could happen the best case walk me through what and by the way just out of curiosity would you consider yourself a sub like if we're in July of 2024 would you say you were a supporter of Trump like you wanted to see him win um so um I'm I'm pretty

politically neutral but in July 2024 I was very confident Trump would win and I was very confident in and I felt that America needed to change so if I were American and I had the opportunity to vote in November of 2024 I would have voted for Trump over Biden got it that's very important that's

very important for the audience to know that because I don't think you've you've revealed that because your your criticism is just what you think is going to happen but you still would have chosen a Trump over a Biden or a Kamala now here's the question that we're you know everywhere we're talking to others what's the best case worst case

okay on what could happen here the best case scenario is that the Americans and Iranians reach a compromise where they agree to share the share of humus so there'll be toast collected uh because the Iranians want reparations for the damage that uh the Israelis and Americans caused these uh this past month but they agreed to share with Americans and they agreed to collect the tolls in U.S dollars and peace comes to the Middle East and there is a possibility I'm not saying this is impossible but but it is a very low probability and this would be the best case scenario best case scenario give me the worst case scenario the worst case scenario is that Trump follows through and uh bombs all of Iran's power plants and the reason why this is the worst case scenario is that there are certain individuals who are now um trying to protect the um power plants with

their bodies so the Iranian government has called on for the young people of Iran to make the ultimate sacrifice and make the human chain around all power plants in Iran and so the Americans go in to blow up all the power plants and kill a lot of young people well in this case the Iranians are obligated now to destroy the entire economy of the GCC this would include all oil fields this would include all these alienation plants this would include all data centers and this would be the

absolute worst case scenario what's your likelihood of that happening give a percentage like if you're gonna do a cal sheet type of I think that's a one percent two percent if you were a betting man what

would you say it is so I would say best case scenario is one percent I would say worst case scenario is ten percent and I would say a limited ground uh incursion would be about 40 okay so you

have a higher likelihood of us hitting the power plants than the best case scenario happening 10 times more likely the worst case than the best case scenario how does Trump because your your prediction was Trump wins Trump goes to war with Iran and America loses define losing because some people could say Afghanistan was a loss right the way Biden left you know we left whatever 83 billion dollars it cost us we left seven billion dollars of equipment there whatever the numbers are uh define loss what does loss mean to you

right so loss means that America is forced to retreat from the Middle East and this will enable to um control the GCC countries because remember the GCC is very important for the petrodollar system where the GCC sells its oil in U.S dollars and then recycles us back into American economy primarily by investing in uh AI so a lot of these AI identity designers are financed by investment from these GCC self -serving wealth funds and so if America were to retreat from the Middle East uh they would lose the petrodollar the American economy would collapse uh and you would you would

have um a civil war emerge in America a civil war emerge in America okay uh interesting do do you think do you think uh uh the president has a team of rivals right now that are trying to prevent that from happening because I think that you and I both know the the the president is a what do you think asking everybody what are your thoughts what do you think what do you think including his enemies this guy called Elizabeth Warren and said hey what do you think about us doing this to the credit card companies and Elizabeth Warren's like he just called I was confused when he called me you know President Trump will bring mom Donnie in and say hey don't worry about it be critical say whatever you want to say about me I'm okay with that you don't need to explain yourself so he talks to everybody do you think he is

fully uh um aware of the risks of what could happen if he goes aggressive here do you think he's fully aware of it I think unfortunately he's running himself with

me right so uh President Trump said about a couple weeks ago um when people asked him why are we in this war because he has never really articulated a reason or an objective for this war and he basically said that well Jared Kushner Steve would call Peter hexf Marco robio talked me into it so what he's done is he's basically elevated the um hawkish elements of his administration and basically um ostracized or uh put on the sidelines um the more um um cautionary conservative elements of his uh administration who include JD Vance and Tulsi Gabbard so I think I believe that JD Vance has been uh very vocal in trying to negotiate a peace treaty as soon as possible and now he's in Hungary far away from the action and there's rumors of Tulsi Gabbard being removed from the administration at some point yeah Tulsi I think

there was another name as well Tulsi and Howard Lutnik were the two names that were brought up first on the you know chopping blocks that he may move on from going back to it Iran IRGC your opinion on them you hear the phrase you know they're the biggest uh producers of terrorism or there's many different phrases people use against them how dangerous do you think Iran is led by the current regime to the world especially to the Gulf states the six GCC countries you're talking about but how dangerous you think they are to society if this

stays in power so I think there are many factions within Iran that are very concerned that if this war continues the Revolutionary uh guards will be able to control all of Iranian society um so right now they can show about 50 of the economy but if this war continues they might control 100 of the Iranian economy and this disastrous for the uh for other um factions within Iran who want a progressive secular society and remember that um these people have a have a grudge against America so 1979 uh students in Tehran overran the American embassy and took people hostage you don't know this but those students are now running the revolutionary guard Corps also their leader uh Qasem Soleimani was killed by the Americans in 2020 and if they wanted revenge against Americans for the longest time and now is a perfect opportunity Americans and the Revenue Guard Corp, and the Revenue Guard Corp see

this as an opportunity to destroy the Americans once and for all, even at the cost of their own society. So it's a real threat here.

That's interesting. So if you know, have you ever watched The Godfather, the Godfather series? I'm assuming you have. I have. Okay. So if you know this, and you know that if Iran hated us a year ago, if Iran hated us eight years ago when we killed Ghassan Soleimani, how much more do they hate us today after taking out the 50 plus leaders that we have in the last, you know, four or five weeks, whatever the, how many days are we at? 43, 44 days? I don't know the exact days. How much more do they hate us? So don't you think from a purely a power play standpoint, if you went this far and you killed everyone and you back off, whether you support this happening or not, we're already in it. Of course, we could have had the debate. We could have had the debate 45 days ago. Don't do it. But now we're in it.

If you're this far and you get out, didn't you just make Iran even angrier to want to retaliate to U.S. and the rest of the world?

Yeah. I mean, I think it's very hard to see an off ramp here because the Iranians will not give up. Even if Americans were to leave, the Iranians would assert control over the GCC, right? And that's why Saudi Arabia and the UAE are pressuring Trump. They're pressuring him to finish this war. Right? So it's easy to start a war.

But once you start the war. What do you think is the right move? You're an advisor. You've said a lot of crazy things, which is very interesting. And I like to hear what you're saying because, you know, when everybody is saying the same exact thing, you're not learning leaks. You need to hear what other people are saying. What do you think is the right move to do here right now for both U.S. and the Gulf States?

If I were the Gulf States and if I were the United States, my... I don't know. My advice would be to organize a conference for four countries, the United States, Russia, Iran, and China. Do not include the Europeans. Do not include the GCC. Do not include Israel. Just these four countries, United States, Russia, China, and Iran. And come to a collective agreement where these four nations agree on a new trade relationship based on the U.S. dollar. I think all four nations are interested in maintaining the U .S. dollar. That's a global reserve currency because no one else wants that global reserve currency status.

Why would you do that if those three all hate you and if you're in a meeting with them, China's not necessarily an ally, Russia's not necessarily an ally, Iran's not necessarily an ally, why would I hold this meeting knowing it's three against one? Trump would never host a meeting like that knowing the leverage isn't on him, right? And so he's got the support of Gulf States. They're on his side. He knows he does them with China. He knows he does them with Russia. He knows he definitely does them with Iran. Why host a meeting like that? I don't see the logic behind that. Feel free to push back. I don't see the logic behind that.

Well, I mean, the reality is that America is going to have a hard time holding onto its empire. And Trump has said this many times. Because America is the world reserve currency, because America is responsible for protecting the sea lanes, then America is basically screwed by the world, especially Europeans who don't have to pay for their own defense, and who can use their savings to fund their lavish welfare and pension system, right? So it's not in the best interest of America to maintain its empire. If you're an average American, you're paying way too much for this empire. So why not just retreat back into the Western Hemisphere? The Western Hemisphere is complete science. It's self -sufficient. It has Canada. It has Mexico. Hey, if I'm Trump, I'm like, you know what? Screw Iran. Screw Ukraine. I don't need these places. I'm going to go over Canada and Mexico, because Mexico has a surplus of labor, cheap labor, and Canada has infinite resources.

A lot of people agree with you on that. A lot of people agree with you. But here's the problem, though, Jiang. The problem is we're in too deep right now. So this is a good conversation 45 days ago. I'm saying to you, we just killed the top 50 leaders. Yeah. These are, they're not going to, they're a martyr type community. Like, you know how you ever go against the company and they're very litigious and you want to play nice? And they're like, no, we're litigious, sue, sue, sue, sue, sue, sue. You have to fight fire with fire. So I'm talking today. If you go in the room and say, okay, let's play nice with Iran, they're like, you're out of your flipping mind. And if we say, hey, Iran says we want to play nice, you're out of your mind. And we know Russia and China are going to side with them. I don't know if that strategy works today.

I do know the, do you think, do you think Trump has a ton of leverage over NATO right now? Do you think the leverage has over NATO?

Look, you can make the argument that Trump is not just at war with Iran. Trump is ultimately at war with the globalists, right? The state of London, Wall Street, global finance, right? So NATO represents the globalists and Trump hates NATO and NATO hates Trump. I think Trump has been trying very hard to come to an agreement with Putin for the longest time. They had that language Alaska meeting. Mm -hmm. And what happened afterwards? Well, NATO and Ukraine are continuing to attack Russia. There was that drone assassination attempt against Putin. The Ukrainians have blown up 40 % of Russia's oil exports just most recently. So there's a lot of bad blood between Ukraine and Russia, between the globalists and Trump. So you're Trump, right? Who's your enemy? Is your enemy Iran, Russia, and China? Who are your enemy, NATO and the globalists?

Well, he's constantly complimentary of his relationship with Xi and Putin. If you ever notice when he speaks, he's like, look, I'd rather be friendly than not friendly. We had a good talk. We're going to go visit back in May. We have some scheduling conflict. We're going to go back. I had a good talk with Putin, had a good talk with Xi. So he knows how to speak to these power players and have them under control. It looks like that night when he was giving a speech, the 23 -minute speech, which 9 PM, I think this was last week, I thought he was going to say something radical like we're leaving NATO. I thought he was going to say the Gulf has announced they're funding the war. I thought he was going to make some kind of a big announcement like that. I don't think there was any big announcement there. But to me, if you

had an easier way to get rid of IRGC, question for you, is the world a better place with IRGC no longer being in power? And it being replaced by some sort of a democracy?

Look, I completely agree with you in that the great fear is that Iran becomes much more extremist and much more theoretical, theocratic than it is now. The Ayatollah Khamenei was considered a pretty moderate individual. His son is not considered moderate and also he's considered incompetent. And so the people around him will be able to control him. We can expect like the most hardline elements. In Iran, society will emerge triumphant from this war if this war continues. So again, my best advice is for these four countries to sit down together, see Putin and Trump will agree to pressure together Iran to come to a settlement. Listen, at the end of the day, Russia is supporting Iran. If Russia were to support, sorry, if Russia were to support, it'd be very hard for Iran to continue with this war effort. That I agree with. Putin has a lot, a lot of leverage over Iran, right?

And that's what I'm saying. You need these four countries to sit down together to come to an agreement. If Trump were trying to negotiate with Iran directly, you'll get nowhere. But if China and Russia entered the negotiations and they agreed on a mutually beneficial global trade relationship, then I think you can get somewhere. And Trump would, I think, excel in such negotiations.

Yeah. Maybe the meeting is a better meeting. If it's Russia, China and the U.S. And not involving Iran on phase one, just to kind of get the pulse there. Because the leverage, you're right, because Russia's, they kind of help each other, right? Because they were selling the cheap drones, the Shahids, I don't know what they're called, Shavids or Shahids to Russia. And Russia was buying it from them back and forth, because Iran makes some of the best small drones similar to Ukraine, Shahid, yeah. The drones that they make, the loud ones that are very effective in a war like this. Okay. So that's interesting to see what happens there. But you do agree that the level of extremism that IRGC has, if there is a way to get rid of that regime and be more of a democracy, the world would be a safer place with them being gone. You would agree with that?

Yeah. No, I would agree that it is not good, it is not in the best interest of Iran to be a theocracy. I think these are Persian people. These are the Muslims. These are the most enlightened people with a long history. They want to be Persian. And so I think that what emerges after this war is a more vibrant Persian nationalism as a counter to Shia theocracy.

So you would want to see the religious, the Ruhollah, the Khameneis, all that to be gone, and it's just ran by government, not a theocratic type of a government. You'd like to see that happen. Do you think there's a safe landing where we can get there? Do you think there's a possibility where we can get there?

Given what's happened so far, and given that Trump seems intent on attacking Iran's critical civilian infrastructure, I think this will only embolden and empower the most extreme religious elements in Iranian society, because these are the ones who are willing to die for what they believe in.

Yeah, I live with them. I lived there for almost 11 years. So I witnessed what they're like. And the level of radicalism that they have is a whole different story. Let me ask you a couple other questions about China, since you're in Beijing right now. There's this data that's going around when China went to the one -child policy that maybe the population isn't as big as they claim it is. I'm sure you've seen this, where the numbers are going around, it's, oh, you know, we're at 1.4 billion, we're at 1.3 billion. And then it's like, no, not necessarily. You may be at six, seven. One lady said 400 million. Mathematically, it's impossible to be at 1.3 billion. You may be at 400 million. But some of the numbers could say eight, 900 million. What is your guesstimation of what China's population is today?

Look, I live in Beijing. I visited China. There are a lot of people in China. I mean, just ride the subway. It's packed every single day. Just walk the streets. They're packed all the time. You know, and I travel a lot. There are a lot of people in China. I can't tell you what the exact statistics are. There's probably some overcounting because local governments tend to lie. Because obviously, like the more people you say you have, the more government subsidies you can get. So I imagine there's some population inflation, but I believe it's still over a billion people. The issue in China is not actually population count. The problem in China is twofold in that you have a rapidly aging population. You have young people who refuse to have kids. I think it's possible in five years time, China has the lowest fertility rate in the world. Right now, it's South Korea at 0.8.

China's about one. But I can easily see China overtaking South Korea in like five years time. So that's the real issue facing China. China still has a lot of people, but the demographic curve is going to be a huge issue for China, especially as the population ages.

Why would they lie? How does it benefit them to lie about the population? Is there a benefit? Like if because why would they who cares if you're at 800 million or if you had 1.3 billion?

Right. So the issue in China is that local governments tend to lie all the time because a lot of their promotions depend on the performance locally. Right. So it's in their best interest to inflate just not population statistics, but also economic performance.

So I so so does Xi incentivize local governments to lie? Is it is it more, hey, we got a safe face for the world. The world cannot see that we're declining country. What is what is the who who is incentivizing who to lie with the data? Right.

So China doesn't really care much about the world. China is an enclosed, insular bureaucracy. So local governments are lying in order to get more funding from the central government. Right. So obviously, if you have more children, you can get more health care subsidies, more education subsidies from the federal government, especially if you're a poor province. Right. So that's the logic of lying. And it's this happens. This is a very common practice in China, where if you are in Beijing, you just have to assume that all the information you're getting from local areas are just inflated information.

Got it. Okay. But but you don't think there's a reason there's a good or bad thing for the world if all of a sudden we got the right data that the population isn't 1.3 billion, it's really only eight, 900 million. Would that be an embarrassing moment for China? Would? Would you see that as an embarrassing moment or no, it wouldn't be a big deal?

You know, there is concern in the central government. And the reason why is that China is very much a metric based society. It's very utilitarian. Right. So it's very focused on economic growth. And what drives economic growth is population growth. So there's a real concern that as the population declines over time, China's economy will stagnate. But personally, I think that this may be in the long term a good thing for China. Because having over 1 billion people is not necessarily a good thing. What it what it has led to ultimately is massive exploitation over the people, because when you have like too many people, it's like free energy, right? So all you have to do is basically exploit them. And that's what runs your economy. But because you're exploiting people, that hampers innovation, that hampers political development. So I think if China were to face a population crisis, this in the long term would be good for turning society and civilization in the long term.

Yeah.

And you kind of talk about the tank ping movement, right? The line flat, I think they call it, where young kids are kind of like, screw it. There's no reason for me to give my best. So I'm going to be a minimalist. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. How are they countering that where kids are seeing there's no reason for me to 996, right? Work 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. six days a week. I don't want to do it. Who cares about this? How are they fighting against that?

So in the 1980s, China was embarking on economic reform. And there was a real concern among party elders, like people who went through the revolution that brought the Communist Party into power in 1949. There's a real concern that capitalism would degrade and pollute civilization, Chinese civilization. They call it spiritual pollution in 1980s. And this was a huge concern in 1980s. And it turns out this was correct. Because free market reform or political reform has led to a very utilitarian society where it's basically get rich or die trying. And so what this has led to is massive corruption, massive inequality, massive debt in China. And this has led to tremendous apathy among young people because there's actually no chance for a young person to get ahead. If you started a business, if you bought a million dollars and you started a business, I guarantee you, no matter what business you start, you're going to get a lot of money.

If you started, you lose all of your money because it's a rigged game. And that's why people are opting out. And because of spiritual pollution, because there's really no ideology, there's really no sense of nationalism in China, there's really no motivated factor for people in China. Before it was just like make money. And that's the point of your existence. Before then, of course, revolution, it was about serving the people, contributing to the motherland. Building a socialist paradise. You and I can disagree about that, but regardless, during the Cultural Revolution, people were motivated to make the self -sacrifice necessary in order to build a better China. And now people are becoming utilitarian. They're indifferent. They're apathetic. And that's why they're like, you know what? Screw this. I'm just going to sit home all day.

And who pays them, though? Who pays them? Is there entitlement programs? Are they able to stay home all day? What is the system for me to stay home all day?

A very common practice is for young people to go work as nurses or maids for their retired parents. Their parents collect a very nice pension. Chinese are very frugal. You know, during COVID, when everyone was locked in their apartments for four years, they ate rice and vegetables all those four years. So Chinese have a lot of money saved up. They have saved up about 40 % of their income, which is the highest in the world. Yep. So, I mean, Chinese can just get by. They can get by on white rice for the next 40 years.

Yeah. And the idea is they don't invest much in the stock market. They don't believe in the market. But they do believe in the real estate side, even though the real estate has taken a bit of a hit. But you've always learned the discipline, the frugality part of folks from China. Let me ask another question in regards to the lie flat, I'm going more on the business side, with Jack Ma. In America, everybody knows Jack Ma. They think about Jack Ma. They think about his sit down with Elon Musk. The good exchange that they had where Elon kind of like, you're out of your mind, AI is going to take over. Jack's like, no, it's not. And then Jack made some comments. I'm sure you remember when he gave a - Yes. Not that strong of a critical comment, but probably the CCP didn't like it. And then all of a sudden, Jack Ma disappeared.

Here's a guy at the time, I don't know what he was worth, $50 billion, give or take. He's a very wealthy man. He disappeared. What is your impression of what happened to him? Yeah. He's a very wealthy man because no one's talking about Jack Ma anymore.

Right. So when President Xi came into power, there's a real concern among Chinese economists that the economy was overheated, meaning, to put it very bluntly, there's too much corruption in the system. There was too much fraud, there was too much speculation. And so it was really about how to make a more productive economy. So there were too many Chinese people who were engaged in real estate speculation, and that's what was causing the real estate boom. And you can't really have that as an economy. You want people to actually work hard, start a business, and save their money, and make proper investments. But everyone was just pouring their money into real estate scams. These entrepreneurs, these billionaires, were basically creating financial Ponzi schemes. And so there was a commitment among Chinese regulators to crack down, and this is what led to the crackdown on Jack Ma. Because Jack Ma pushed back against central authority. And you can't do that in China.

You can't question the authority of the government. And Jack Ma, he was the richest man in China. He was the most popular man in China at that time. And he thought that he could change the system. And he found out that, unfortunately, you cannot.

Got it. And what is the difference between him and the other fellow, Jimmy? I'm trying to get his name right, his last name right. Is it Jimmy Lay? Jimmy Lay? Do you remember the Jimmy Lay story?

Right. So these are two different societies. These are two different political systems. Hong Kong is considered like a quasi -sovereign part of China.

Is that kind of like the equivalent of like a Puerto Rico in America?

Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, Jimmy Lay is an outspoken critic of the Communist Party. He is very pro -democracy, but he probably pushed too many buttons. He probably crossed too many red lines. So I think what led to his arrest was the fact that you had protests in Hong Kong about a few years ago that called for democracy. And this was a red line for the Communist Party in Beijing. And so he ordered a crackdown. And vocal opponents. All of the government were arrested or forced into exile. Jimmy Lay had the option of seeking exile. But he believes in democracy. And so he chose to be a martyr. And so now he's in prison.

Who is he in China to America? Is there a comparison? Because this is a guy that was a billionaire. In 2020, he was pushing democracy. Then I think China passed a law that, you know, there are certain things you couldn't do in June of 2020, June of 2021. I could get some of the dates off. I think it's June 30 of 2020. Once the new national security law was passed, 11 days later, he got convicted and then he went away for 20 years. And this is a guy that owned Apple Daily, newspaper brand that played a big role in the 2014 Umbrella Movement, the 2019 Hong Kong protests. So pretty heavy guy. But to the average person in America that doesn't know who Jimmy Lay is, how would you say? Jimmy Lay is to China. He's to China. What XYZ is to America?

Well, I mean, America has freedom of speech. America respects its business people. America respects its entrepreneurs. So it's very hard for me to find an analogy who is American. But you do have Russian people, you know, these billionaires who ran foul of the Putin regime. And so they were put in prison and then they died in prison. So that's what happens in these societies. Russia and China. China. When you try to defy the government. There is a red line in our society, and that is you cannot challenge the ultimate authority of the government.

Speaker 1, how much interest do you think there is in China of wanting to be a democracy? And because, you know, you guys got your one party, right? One political party. You don't have a lot of choice. This is what we're doing. It's just a who do you want? We're not changing this. It's not like you have a lot of say. How much interest do you think there actually is in saying, you know what? Why not? Why don't why don't we go try to have a democracy in China?

So I've been in China for 25 years and I can tell you that there is almost no interest in democracy in China because for democracy to exist in China, for democracy to happen in China, you would need to have people who respected human rights, individual liberty, who had empathy. Who believed in rule of law. And the reality is that in China, this isn't set up so that so that you the ultimate objective is to become a bureaucrat. That's what all Chinese people aspire to or aspirationally, meaning coming up.

You want to you want to be a bureaucrat one day?

Exactly. And the higher you climb the bureaucracy, the better, because traditionally China's an empire and the way you survive an empire is to become a civil servant. And that's why. That's why Chinese work so hard in school because they want to pass a civil service examination to become a bureaucrat. So then they can provide guarantees and protection to their family.

How long did you live in Canada and the US?

So I was born in China. And then when I was six, we immigrated to Toronto, Canada, where I grew up. I went to high school there. I did five years of high school because, you know, in Canada, we're we're slower than Americans. You guys can finish high school in four years. We need about five years. Yeah. And then after America, after that, I went to Yale for college. I spent four years there. And then I came to China and I've been in China ever since, ever since 1999.

So how many years did you live in the US for four years? OK, so if you were to say the dream for a kid in Canada when he grows up, he wants to be a the dream for an American when he grows up, he wants to be a and you already said it with China's right. You want to grow up. You want to be a bureaucrat. What is your impression of what China is, Canada's, US is?

Well, in Canada, I grew up in Canada. Everyone wants to be a hockey player. When I grew up, I didn't play hockey, but I want to be a hockey player. I wanted to play for the NHL.

Yep.

I mean, I could I can't even skate. OK, but I wanted to be a hockey player. In America, I think you want to be an entrepreneur. You want to start your own business such as yourself and you want to make it and be independent and be free of government control. And you want to be able to speak your mind. In China, as I mentioned, you want you want to be a bureaucrat.

What what do you like about each country? Because you chose to go back to China. And if I'm not mistaken, what happened with the PBS documentary that you try to do that they kicked you out and then eventually they let you come back in and 03, I don't know what the timeline is there, you know, because you have a choice to be in Canada, US or China, but you chose China. So maybe walk through what happened when they kicked you out and then why you chose to go back to China.

So I came to China to teach English and eventually I became interested in journalism and I was hired to do freelance journalism. I got a contract from PBS to do a documentary on China's WTO entry. And this required filming a worker protest and there were quite a few worker protests during this time because there was a restructuring of state owned enterprises. And while I was filming a worker protest, I was arrested by Plains closed policemen. I was put into a car and then I was put I was sent to a hotel for 48 hours where they interrogated me and I didn't get much sleep. I ultimately signed a confession that I was working in China illegally as a journalist. So to work in China as a journalist, you need a journalist visa. And I was not I didn't have a journalist visa. And so they deported me, but they didn't charge me so I could at any time return to China.

And so eventually I chose to return to China because at that time I had Chinese language skills. I had a journalism experience. And so they're more optimistic for me in China than they were in the United States and in Canada. So the question is, what do I see the particular strengths of each country of each country are? Well, Canada, you know, it's a very stable society. People there are very nice, perhaps too nice. It's almost like they're on Valium every single day. You've been to Canada. So I have many times. Yeah, right. You know, Americans are. They are the most creative people in the world. Very open, very generous. If you have if you are if you want to work hard and you have talent, you will make it in America. And that's not true for anywhere else in the world. You know, it doesn't matter how much time you have in China.

No one cares. All that matters is how powerful your family is. And that's true for most of the world. It's not just unique to China. I would say for most of the world, what matters is family connections, family background, as opposed to hard work and talent. So I deeply admire Americans. And I have tremendous respect for them. I have tremendous respect for American society and culture. China at that time was an open canvas. It seemed promising. It's it at that time could go in many different directions. And so I was young and I was really curious and I felt that I could learn a lot more in China and experience much more interesting opportunities in China than I could anywhere else. Right.

And so because you're very curious, you're very talented. Yes. You know, you asked you're very good communicator. I mean, these are all great qualities to be here in the States. Why why choose to use those talents in China?

So my so I was United States for college. And when I was at Yale, I found that there wasn't as much openness and freedom to curiosity as I imagined. So Americans are extremely entrepreneurial. They're very good at business. But I didn't feel as though. America was going to change a lot in 10, 20 years time. And I felt that I wanted to experience a society in flux, in change. I find America was much more stable. You know, I could have easily gone to law school and become a very wealthy lawyer or maybe even gone and become a professor. Right. There are lots of these career paths open to me because I had a Yale education. But I knew exactly what would happen, what I would be like in 50 years time or 60 years time, because, you know, I still got my professors and I know how they live their lives. I have friends who are lawyers and I know how they live their lives.

And I wanted to experience a world in which the world was unpredictable. And that was China. You know, I like when I came to China, I knew China was going to change a lot in 20, 30 years time. And so during this time of massive change, this would offer opportunities to do things I could really do in the United States.

Got it. So you had the opportunity to go over there and and by the way, your content that you create in China that you upload on YouTube, do you also upload it on the channels in China or is it mainly for the content in U.S.?

So I have a very strict policy of not engaging in Chinese social media. I do not have a Chinese social media account. Chinese reporters have reached out to have interviews with me and I've said no. Chinese people have reached out to me and said they want to work with me and I've said no. And the reason why is that.

And when you say they reached out, who reached out to you, like the bigger platforms or media companies or all the way from the top, the CCP?

Well, a team of professors, professors at the very elite universities in China, Tsinghua University. And I don't want to talk to these people because they represent the government. And I don't want to put myself in a position where I'm compromised and have to become a propaganda mouthpiece for the government. Got it. So I'm not a Chinese citizen, so I'm not bound by Chinese surveillance laws. And I make content for Westerners. And so I have a lot more freedom to comment about Western society than, say, if I were in Western society. Right. So so Canada has become very authoritarian society. They I. If I said certain things. And I said in Canada, then it's possible that I get visited by the police. And that might be true for Europe. It would be true for the United States, but there would be some other issues as well.

Yeah, that's interesting. So have they ever knocked on your door and said, hey, you cross on a lysing, pump the brakes. That's too much. Relax or no. They leave you alone. Nobody's knocked on your door.

I work at a school. I'm I'm employed by the school. They have legal responsibility for me. And there was one time when I wrote a subsect essay that mentioned China. And I was given a call by the school leadership and told to pull it down. I'm not at liberty to tell you what the comment was, but but I will tell you that I'm being monitored very heavily.

I can I can only imagine that. I can only imagine that. Do you feel safe for yourself in China long term? I do not plan on staying in China long term.

OK, I think because I'll tell you what, because right now China is very interested in soft power. And right now I have a lot of self -power. I have a lot of influence overseas. And so they want to co -opt me. They want to compromise me and turn me into a weapon that they can use to promote their agenda overseas. I don't want to do that.

The longer you stay, the more people are going to think that you are somebody that's representing the CCP, that you're working with the government just because I know you the criticism. The moment you went viral, I'm like, OK, let's see what happens the next two weeks, because they're going to come for his throat. It happens every single time. And and then we all move on with the filtering process. You're not really a professor. Are you a spy? Are you tied to the government? Are you tied to this? If all of a sudden you leave and you go to Singapore or Dubai or a different place or maybe maybe not even Dubai, but a couple, you know, a couple of places they can go to to speak, then that means you truly are a citizen of the world, that your concern is here's what I think about. Here's what I want to talk about. Do whatever you want with this information.

And I'm sure your AdSense is picking up anyways with YouTube, which allows you to drop your job as a teacher to go live anywhere. That's the beautiful thing about YouTube. So you kind of have a little bit of freedom to be able to do that. And I love to see you continue doing this because, you know, you're you're again, you say some crazy things, but that's good. We need to kind of think about some of the crazy things that can possibly happen. And then let's hash it out. Let's debate it out. Now, let's see what comes out of it. Another question for you. I love what you said. In Canada, everybody wants to be a hockey player. In U.S., people want to be an entrepreneur. In China, they want to be a bureaucrat. What do you think? What do you think kids want to be in Iran? What's the dream in Iran today under this regime?

I know you're not there. I'm not there. But what do you think?

Well, I mean, I've never been to Iran. It depends where you are in Iran, right? So the cities are very different from the rural areas. But I think that given what's been happening in this war, I think there are a lot of young children who fantasize about fantasize and they grow up and they want to fight the Americans. So so I feel as though this war, given the fact on the first day the Americans struck a. A school in southern Iran that killed 168 schoolgirls and they killed an 86 year old 86 year old man with prostate cancer. I feel as though there are a lot of young people who want to go to war with America right now.

Yeah. And I agree. I agree with where, you know, I'm going to be a hero one day and you're even in some videos with mothers celebrating that their sons gave their lives. It's like my son's a hero. He did the right thing. It's a very different way of thinking about. What what what happens there? You know, very different way of thinking about let's talk about COVID. You know, COVID is the time when I started talking about politics up until COVID had no desire to talk politics. All I did was business and I would do my whiteboards. You know how you do your whiteboards? I would do my whiteboards, except nowadays we can do with nice little markers where our hands don't get dirty. I did at the getaways back in the days where I would get paint all over my suit and ties and it was a hot mess. But during COVID. You know, story comes out.

It came out from the Wuhan lab. No, it's came from the wet market. No, China had nothing to do with it. Yes, China had to do with Nancy Pelosi goes to Chinatown. Stop being so racist. Trump's like, what are you talking about? It came from China. What does China say about COVID with their position? Because when the state media is telling their stories and I'm living in Iran and they're saying, let me tell you, U.S. is the devil and U.S. is this. And death upon America and all this other stuff. And, you know, China is a pretty controlled environment, kind of like what you talked about earlier. How does China's state media control the narrative of what really happened with COVID?

OK, so unfortunately, COVID has been has been memory hold in China. So no one talks about it. It was a traumatic three or four years for Chinese society. And people just have basically just forgotten about the experience. No one even mentions COVID anymore. People still get COVID. But no one mentions COVID anymore. So all of this has been memory hold. And people would rather just move on with their lives because there's actually no point in talking about it. But the Chinese government have said on multiple occasions that COVID started off as the American bioweapon. And so that's what the Chinese believe, that COVID was American bioweapon, it was leaked into China in order to hurt Chinese society. And there are a lot of elite Chinese who I talk to who believe the same thing.

Interesting. So they believe it was a bioweapon released from U.S. in China. That's the narrative they say. And is it. That's what they believe. And is it tied to Fauci, the gain of function? Is that kind of how they spin it? Or what's what's their method of, you know, connecting the dots?

So I'll tell you what I believe happened, OK? And so I believe that this was American bioweapon funded by Tony Fauci. Obama had put a moratorium. OK. A ban on gain of function research. And so Fauci subcontracted gain of function research to the Wuhan lab, which was actually a military installation. And I don't know if it was accidental or deliberate, but it got released into Wuhan. And when it did get released into Wuhan, the early reporting was that this was killing a lot of people. It was actually burning your lungs. It was like a furnace. Your lungs became a furnace. So it's pretty deadly. And they locked down the city too late and about a third of people like, you know, escaped into other cities as well as border flights for Europe. And this spread around the world very quickly. So I think that's what happened. But Chinese what what they believe is that this was an American bioweapon designed to hurt the Chinese economy.

And and that's a story. But they downplay China's role. In it.

Yeah, they downplay China's role in it. And culturally, is China a culture where if the government says says that, don't question it. You don't have to write to question it. Just buy it. This is what happened. Don't come back and question us because of freedom of speech.

Chinese people know where the political red lines are and they know how the political winds are shifting. And so there's really no questioning of the government. Yeah.

What what an advantage for the enemy to be able to see in America where in America we bash each other and we're going at it and every you know, everything's being exposed from congressmen on the left and the right. And nobody in the world can see what's going on with China because no one can bring up anything. God forbid, if you do, something could happen. I disagree.

I feel like if you want if you want a healthy, creative, resilient society, you need free and open debate. The best thing about America is the First Amendment. The best thing is that anyone can criticize the president. And there's rigorous debate right now over this Iran war. And this allows for America to pivot and to be resilient and to discover its weaknesses and to improve on its witness on its vulnerabilities. China has been trying to for the past 5000 years. This is not a good thing.

Yeah. No, I'm with you. It is. If. If you have that kind of a chokehold on their people for a long time and see the enemy is debating each other, a lot of information comes in. But if social media apps are not available in China, right, there is no Facebook. There is no YouTube. There is no X. There is no nothing like that is available in China.

There are Chinese equivalents. But yes, these Western social media platforms are banned in China.

Are there are there any like if I if you and I go to a dinner and you know, if you live in California at the peak of covid. Yeah. You have to be very careful if you were a Trump supporter. A lot of people would say. But there were parties you would go to two houses like, hey, man, me, too. Hey, me, too. But God, if you were Maga had in twenty seventeen in California, go walk through the mall and see what happens to you. It's a very different climate than today. Right. Are there small pockets of people in China, small communities that are growing, that they're criticizing the government or none of that exists now that exists in China? OK. All right. And I don't think you agree with that. I think.

Well, well. Well, no. I mean, the reason is that China has developed an AI surveillance state that is the most advanced in the world. Right. So China has digital I.D. and digital currency. Right. And so with that, everything you do online can be monitored. Right. And so when you use your mobile phone, it's a it's a like all your app is on your phone. So the government knows exactly where you go. Yeah. You buy. We have. And from that, from this data. Yeah. They can do a micro analysis of of your political leanings and then influence you in a certain way. So China has still the first surveillance state.

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. You know, you just reminded me of a story when I when I made a handful of videos criticizing China and I brought a general Spalding who went very hardcore at China and got millions of views all over the place. And he was revealing some things about China. So it was about a six months of going after China. Pretty hardcore. One day I get an email from a PR from saying somebody from China wants to invite you to an event. It's a charity event. I said, OK, so let's do the Zoom. So I got on the call. It's me, Mario, another guy named Gerard. And we get on the Zoom and we said, so what's the outcome? They want to pay you six hundred thousand dollars. I have this email till today. Wow. Documented. They want to pay you six hundred thousand dollars, but they want you to give a three hundred thousand dollar check to X, Y, Z charity.

So you get to keep three hundred thousand dollars. But you give the three hundred thousand dollars to the charity. We'll take care of your hotel, food, flight, everything. Don't worry about it. And we'll give you three hundred thousand dollars. Of course, my answer was no. But why would China do something like that? Why would the why would they want somebody like me to come in to get six hundred thousand dollars and donate three hundred thousand dollars to charity?

Right. So the Chinese approach to soft power is co -opting elites. Right. So in China, the elites have all the power. The people have no power. And they assume that's just how the power works. That's how the world works. So if I'm going to spend money on soft power, that basically means I bribe influential media elite such as yourself, such as Tom Friedman. So Tom Friedman has visited China quite a lot. And he said very nice things about China. And quite honestly, this works right. Because if you come over to China, they treat you very well. It's great food. The people are very friendly. They show you the best aspects of China. And you leave with a very good feeling in your heart. So Chinese are very good at co -opting individuals. And they only focus on individuals who have tremendous influence in the world, such as yourself.

It's a brilliant strategy if you're able to succeed with it. And people can come back and being complimentary about it. You know, that's what you want, especially in an enemy state. Last question here. With Muslims. And what is the position? That Xi Jinping or the Chinese government has towards Muslims, the religion of Islam? Of course, on the outside, they have a lot of relationships with a lot of people. But on the inside, we read about the Uighurs. We read about the treatment of what's happened in Muslims. We read about how some stories of what they think that religion is all about. What is the sect of Muslims in China? And what is the relationship with Islam and the Chinese government?

Right. So there were some prominent terrorist attacks where Muslims, Uighurs, launched knife attacks in train stations, killing dozens of Chinese. And a lot of these Uighurs came back from wars in the Middle East. So these were radicalized people. And there was real fear among the Chinese government that there's radicalization. And radicalization had penetrated Muslim society. So there was a massive crackdown across Muslim society. But this goes into a much larger trend in China, which is the promotion of ethnic Han civilization. So China has about 55 minorities. The majority, like 90 % of people, are Han. I'm a Han person. But there are lots of minorities in the borderlands. And it was a policy of the Communist Party in 1949 to be as tolerant as possible to these minorities, meaning that they were given their own autonomy. Their language was promoted. There was heavy state subsidies to protect their culture, to protect their language, to promote ethnic minorities in mainstream Chinese society.

And recently, there's been a push to promote Han nationalism, which means a clapping down on the rights of ethnic minorities. And the most obvious example is that schools in many places are not allowed to teach a second language. If you're a minority, you're only allowed to learn Chinese as opposed to your local dialect.

Interesting. So does that include English or they teach you English in China?

They are trying to reduce it. They reduce the teaching of English as well. But it is much too popular among middle -class Chinese who want to send their kids abroad. But the official policy is to promote Chinese teaching over English teaching.

And are there enough, like, you know, the Muslims are fairly, if I'm looking at the population right now, it says 20 to 25 million Muslims live in China, right? And roughly 1.5 % to 2%. I don't know if those numbers are right or not. That's just, you know, Chad bringing that number up. And it explains the largest group being the Hui Muslims, ethnically similar to the Han Chinese, which you were kind of talking about right now. What can they do and what can't they do? Because the Muslim religion in America grows because we have the freedom of speech. You can go out there and be in the streets praying. What can they not do in China?

Look, the reality is that the Communist Party prides itself on being atheistic. So it is trying to downplay religion. Not just against the Muslims, but also against Christians, against people of all faiths. And they're trying to promote communist ideology above everything else. So you can be religious as long as you accept that communism is the ultimate god, which means that most people who are religious are not going to accept this, right?

Makes sense. Okay. So is there things that you can't? Do you know your limits of what you can and cannot talk about yourself? Like, what can you not talk about?

Right. So in China, there are lots of things I cannot talk about. But I'm not on social media. I'm not on Chinese social media. I don't talk to Chinese reporters. So I'm not constrained by this. But because I'm based in China, I also have to watch what I say overseas, right? So things I can't talk about is the Tibet -Taiwan issues, the Xinjiang issues. I cannot talk about this. I cannot name specific individuals in China who hold leadership positions. So you will not hear me talk about or criticize the leadership of China. I'm not allowed to discuss that. I'm not allowed to discuss the limitations of the military because they are invincible. And they are always right. There are lots of things I can't talk about.

That is funny because they're always right. I like that because that's like, you know, something tells me that was a bit of a dig is what it was. I'm trying to see your facial reaction to what you just said to see if it was a dig or if it was what you know you can't talk about. Did I lose you? Yeah. Yeah. So the connection isn't great, actually. Okay. Well, we're at the end of it about to wrap up. Last thing. Canada, China, U.S. China is buying up a lot of farmland in U.S., in Canada. Why do you think that is?

Look, the reality is that if you're a wealthy Chinese person, your dream is to move your assets and your family to America. And right now in America, there are not that many assets that you can buy and create value. So farmland is just one of these assets where you can store your wealth. And so this is why a lot of Chinese are buying up real estate. This is what Chinese do. They love buying real estate. It's not just America. It's like everywhere.

So it's not any other reason but that. To your impression, it's just they're just buying it for real estate. They're not buying it because they want to control farmland and they want to control produce and any of that stuff. You're not going there.

That's right. Look, I'm 100 % confident that this is individual Chinese behavior. Where they're trying to store their wealth. Look, the reality is that if you leave your wealth in China, there's no legal protection. The government can take it away at any time. So you want to move it overseas. And American farmland just happens to be a pretty good investment.

Do you have any travel plan to come to the States? Are we going to see you in the States next 30, 60, 90 days? Probably not. Probably not.

We're not as much progressing. Ha ha ha. Not as much. Yeah. Ha ha ha. Look, look, look, look. I mean, I would love to visit the United States. I would love to meet you in person. There's quite a few people who have asked me to visit, to be on the show. Sure. But I'm pretty sure if I go to the United States, I'm going to get punched in the face at some point. Ha ha ha.

I think if you're giving your perspectives, like today's interview, very fair. I want the world to watch this. I thought this was a very good conversation that some may say it could have been antagonistic. But I actually was looking forward to having the exact conversation you and I just had here together. I'll give you the final thoughts before we wrap up. Is there anything else you want to share with the audience before we wrap up?

Yeah. So I think these next few days will be crucial for the world. I pray to God, even though I'm not religious, that we come to a peace settlement that Trump tackles again. And Iran offers a settlement. A settlement that the Americans can agree on. I think that the settlement that the Iranians have offered so far, which is to share control of the historical moves, has been very fair. And it's quite honestly one of the most generous offers that the Americans will get from the Iranians so far. So I pray to God that we come to a settlement over the next few days. But it's also possible these few days we'll see a major escalation where the Americans are targeting critical civilian infrastructure in Iran. Which will force Iran to go into total war and respond forcefully against the GCC. In which case it's possible that we lose access to 20 % of the world's energy.

And we lose 30 % of the world's fertilizer. And this means that the entire world is going to be drawn into this war. And this means that every person will be affected.

Well, appreciate that perspective. Thank you for making the time to get on. I really enjoyed talking to you and looking forward to doing it again.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm available anytime. It was a great conversation. Thank you so much. Anytime. God bless. Take care. Bye -bye. Okay. Bye -bye.