Creativity Is A Scientific Rebellion

The interviewer begins with the obvious public word, creativity, and Jiang narrows it. He is not talking first about artistic, musical, or athletic expression. In China, his primary concern is rational problem-solving Source trail 4:16 So I agree with you that artistic, musical, athletic creativity are also very important. But I think that here in China, the primary concern is to learn science in order to solve problems rationally. And so part of that... . Creativity means that students can use scientific process to discover truth, test ideas, make mistakes, and revise.

That definition lets him diagnose the Chinese classroom as an authority machine Source trail 3:16 So teachers are in complete control, and they demand obedience and conformity from students. That's the first problem. Second problem is that there isn't a focus on processes, just results, but very, very quick results.... . Teachers control the room; students obey; outcomes matter more than process; English becomes word-list memorization instead of reading, writing, debate, and communication; mistakes are punished rather than used. The classroom does not just fail to produce creativity. It trains against the habits creativity requires.

Galileo supplies the deeper logic. Science, in Jiang's telling, begins when people no longer have to rely on Church authority. Truth comes through experimentation, observation, logic, and evidence. That makes science anti-authority, individualist, and curious Source trail 4:50 Sure. I mean, the father of science, Galileo, right? I mean, his argument was that we don't have to listen to the Catholic church. We don't have to rely on authority. We came through, through experimentation, through ob... , which works against Chinese traditional culture and thinking.

The interviewer pushes on the contradiction: China needs creative problem-solvers, but the underlying values of respect for authority, obedience, and results are themselves culturally embedded. Jiang answers at civilizational scale. China looks like a landmass, but culturally and intellectually it is an ocean Source trail 5:52 Creativity is very much front upon here in China. And, and again, as you mentioned, it's very much cultural. Um, it's culturally important. Um, it's very much cultural. Um, it's culturally embedded this conservatism and... . People see skyscrapers and highways and think the culture has changed. Jiang says the deeper continuity, stability, and harmony remain, and that continuity can become anti-change.

Teachers resist because reform threatens status. Parents resist because education feels like a prisoner's dilemma Source trail 8:57 I think for the past 30 or 40 years, there's been a consistent demand among the general public, among economists, among policymakers, to promote creativity in the Chinese school system. And these past 34 years, we've se... : only a few children can win, so if the curriculum changes, everyone may lose. That is why there can be thirty or forty years of public demand for creativity and still little change in the classroom. Reform is blocked by the fear structure around the child.

Jiang's own strategy changed because he hit that wall. As a school leader designing new programs, he failed and learned from the backlash. Then he turned to teacher training, thinking that teachers had to become agents of change. But even changed teachers ran into social opposition embedded in their lives Source trail 11:11 much opposition and protest against what I was doing, I've modified a lot of my techniques and strategies over the years. So I switched to teacher training because I felt that if you really want to implement change, you... . That is why he returns to principal-level control: he needs a school where he can show evidence, not merely argue theory.

The current plan is not a memo. Jiang teaches. He invites parents and teachers to watch. He runs tests and gathers evidence. If parents can see that change works, they may become persuadable; if parents become persuadable, teachers may slowly follow. The reform path begins with proof in the room Source trail 11:56 So now I've returned to school leadership, but working at a principle level. So I have complete control over the curriculum. I am better advocating on behalf of students. So my strategy going forward is to basically col... .

His English example is simple but decisive. Instead of memorizing word lists, students read books, act scenes, and write literary analysis. In only two weeks, he says, their minds blossom and open Source trail 12:54 And I have always been opposed to that. And so I've been slowly trying to get kids to read books and to act out certain scenes in the book, to write literary analysis essays. And only in two weeks, we've seen students,... . They become happier, more confident, and more engaged when they become agents of their own learning.

The classroom mechanics are hard. Students are addicted to memorization because they are good at it. The teacher has to coax them into imagining ideas Source trail 14:50 And they become very accustomed to it. And it becomes almost pleasurable to them because they become very, very good at it. One thing that I need to do in the beginning is to basically coax them out of their addiction t... , speaking them aloud, and risking failure or loss of face. The room must be democratic, open, tolerant, and caring, but not vague. Jiang's difficult target is to be non-judgmental while giving precise feedback Source trail 14:50 And they become very accustomed to it. And it becomes almost pleasurable to them because they become very, very good at it. One thing that I need to do in the beginning is to basically coax them out of their addiction t... .

Leadership matters because talk is too easy. Jiang says the principal has to be the role model, the person inside the classroom doing the work so others can emulate. The open-door policy is not merely kindness. It is infrastructure for teacher courage Source trail 17:24 Yeah, absolutely. And I think the most important thing as a school leader is to make it an open door policy, right? So you, the school leader, you need to be the role model. You need to demonstrate courage. You need to... : the leader has to make mistakes, own them, and remove the distance between school leader and teacher.

The surprise is not that students learn more English when they read difficult texts and answer difficult questions. Jiang expected that. The surprise is that parents report happier children. The students go home wanting to learn more. Challenge, properly held, does not crush them Source trail 18:09 Well, I mean, what's really surprised me, the feedback from parents is that, okay, like I knew this with teaching, where in the classroom, you get kids to read texts, difficult texts, and you ask them difficult question... . It makes them more confident.

This is also where Jiang corrects his younger self. Earlier in his career, he says, he did not think enough about wellbeing, psychological profile, or teenage development. He was a robot in school Source trail 19:17 Yeah. I mean, one thing that I didn't really do in the early stages of my career was think about a student's wellbeing, his psychological profile, how he is developing as an individual, especially in the crucial teenage... , a good student without much emotional life. Experience as a father and teacher changed the model: discomfort can show thinking, but anxiety and stress are not productive.

The change is moral and economic at the same time. Before, he prioritized economic outcomes regardless of the cost. Now he sees wellbeing as key to strong economic outcomes Source trail 20:10 Remember, I'm teaching sixth graders. They're 12, 13. So it's a very fragile, a very sensitive age. So I want, I want to make sure that want to do scaffolding. I mean, I want to support them, but I don't want to be anot... . They are impossible to extricate. That matters because the interview is not making an anti-rigor argument. It is saying that a school system which harms the child also weakens the long-run outcome it claims to protect.

The pandemic clarified a structural problem. Jiang says China had little disruption because online learning reproduced the same chalk-and-talk model: the teacher talked for forty-five minutes offline, then talked online. That continuity is not a compliment Source trail 21:08 So, I mean, the pandemic these past two years have, I think, been a big part of my life. I mean, really clarified for me how broken our school system is. And so I think that we need to really focus on the ideas of meta... . It means students were already learning too little, and then learned even less under lockdown.

The answer is meta-learning. Students need to learn how to learn: memory, goals, strategies, reading plot, reading psychological profile, and seeing character change. Jiang's desired endpoint is radical teacher humility. A year or two later, he wants students not to need him. His goal as a teacher is to make himself redundant Source trail 22:53 That's my goal as a teacher to sort of make myself redundant in their lives. So not just teaching them the content, .

That is why students enjoy the work. It gives them tools and a new pair of eyes Source trail 23:06 Yeah. And that's why students enjoy learning because it's empowering for them. It's, it's, it's like you're, you're giving them a new learning opportunity. It's, it's, new set of tools a new pair of eyes in which to see... : for the world, for themselves, for the text. Jiang calls this liberating because it shifts learning from dependency to agency. But he refuses the fantasy that one classroom can change China in a year or two. The classroom is field research for a blueprint Source trail 24:02 I think that's a great way of summarizing it but another way of understanding what I'm trying to do is even though I'm teaching a classroom I'm still very much engaged in field research meaning that I'm not delusional I... future educators may use.

When the interviewer raises PISA and China's high performance, Jiang does not retreat into dismissal. Source trail 25:4726:3626:40 in China but around the world one thing I am wondering though is that China you're saying you know has a has some way to go in terms of creativity and so on but when we look at PISA results China does really really well...countries can learn from that big system that is Chinese education The world can learn from China. There is tremendous respect for education, an optimism that hard work through education can change life, and a social obsession with school that other countries lack.

Chinese teacher culture also carries something Jiang admires. Teachers spend large portions of their working time learning, planning, marking, observing, researching, presenting, and collaborating. Teaching is treated as an intellectual pursuit Source trail 28:38 for teaching because here in China primary school teachers are expected to do research and scholarship at the level of University professors I think that's something that's wonderful I I think that all countries can lea... , not merely a job. Older teachers mentor younger teachers; departments share lesson planning; peer observation can produce frank critique without offense.

The distinction is the end goal. The professional culture can be strong while the assessment regime is wrong. If all anyone cares about is test scores, then collaboration, research, and hard work become servants of a narrow outcome. Jiang wants holistic assessment that encourages individuality, creativity, growth mindset, self-reflection, awareness of limitations, and courage. Source trail 31:4432:1032:4533:05 tension there between what you talked about earlier with students not necessarily being encouraged to take risks to deal with failure to collaborate a lot but then the teaching profession it sounds like they do see feed...um the culture of teaching the professional teaching in China is great but the end goal the assessment system is problematic because all anyone cares about in China are the test scores right so this is all in the name o...

Jiang's most unsettling claim is that the best academic students can be more problematic than the worst students Source trail 33:05 the students in your school I place a huge emphasis on growth mindset so I don't really care about the results I care about the value system I want students to challenge themselves I want students to be able to engage i... . The weak student knows he has limitations and may be open to advice. The top student has been rewarded for easy tasks, speed, praise, and staying inside the comfort zone. That success can become close-mindedness.

The test system is addictive like a video game Source trail 34:45 it's addictive it's just addictive as playing video games right this with this test system in place there are students as you say who are able to game the system they develop techniques that allow them to in a very shor... . Students learn to memorize core information quickly and regurgitate it. Then an open-ended long-form question without a standardized answer can make them freak out or cry. The system makes them excellent at what it rewards and fragile outside it.

Evidence-based reasoning is the missing capacity. Jiang says Chinese students often never learn it, even at university, and the best students struggle when they go abroad. The problem is not only intellectual. It is moral and social: the best students may lack empathy because they interact mostly with people like themselves and do not like diversity and difference Source trail 36:34 That's true. And the other thing I've noticed about the best students is they lack empathy. It's very hard for them to see problems from another perspective, from someone else's perspective. And they're used to only int... .

The interviewer notices the personal tension: if Jiang felt like a robot in school, why enter education? Source trail 36:4837:04 I'm just remembering that earlier in the conversation, you said that in your own schooling, you felt like you were a robot. You were going through the motions of schooling. What was it that inspired you then to come int...My personal background is that I was born in China. I was born into a poor family here in China in 1976, and we went over to Canada, Toronto, when I was six, seven years old, and I had for the first 10 years of schoolin... His answer begins with childhood injury. Born in China in 1976 and moved to Toronto at six or seven, he spent his first ten years of schooling unable to speak English well, stuttering, poor, teased, stressed, and traumatized. The trauma inhibited learning.

Then teachers noticed him. They found a spark in his eyes Source trail 37:04 My personal background is that I was born in China. I was born into a poor family here in China in 1976, and we went over to Canada, Toronto, when I was six, seven years old, and I had for the first 10 years of schoolin... , encouraged him, and he began to read more books and take school seriously. That is why he calls education empowering and liberating Source trail 37:56 And I started to read more books. I started to take school more seriously. And so it's this experience of education. I see education as both empowering and liberating. Because I experienced the power and liberation of e... . He does not believe this because school treated him gently. He believes it because education rescued something in him that school had nearly buried.

The final lightning-round details are not random. Judy Blume matters because she writes deep ideas in simple language Source trail 40:07 Yeah. So on my desk is Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing by Judy Blume. It's something that I teach sixth grade Chinese. I love the book. It's fantastic. I highly recommend Judy Blume for any teachers who teach Chinese st... , exactly the challenge Jiang faces with sixth-grade Chinese students. His wife matters because she helps his rational, narrow student self understand how ordinary people think Source trail 40:47 That's why we're having so many children because we have so many books to write. But I mean, I, you know, I was a very good student. And because I was such a very good student, I saw the world in a very narrow way. I'm... . His next writing course matters because it turns evidence-based reasoning into practice: students will research, interview, survey, collect information, and write.

That is why the ending matters. Jiang names himself as a beneficiary of meritocracy: hard work, high IQ, good tests, Yale scholarship. Then he says his education career made him skeptical of meritocracy. The dream is not to select the best more efficiently. The dream is for every student to access an elite education Source trail 42:04 I am a beneficiary of what we call the meritocracy, right? I worked hard, my IQ was very high, I did well on tests. So I got a full scholarship to Yale College. And in my education career, I've become very skeptical abo... .