Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)

Okay, are we ready? Okay, okay. Good morning. We are live. So, today is a special day because this is a day when we meet God. And we are now in the last four cantos, 30, 31, 32, 33. And we are in the Imperium, which is the seat of God. So, we will be doing a lot today, but I just want to first make sure there are no questions, issues from the previous four days. Are there any questions you have about what we've learned so far? Anyone? Yes?

So, I remember last time we were talking about how the angels' existence are really not that admirable. Like, you don't want to be an angel. But when I... went back and when I read the part about describing angels, I think Dante was actually trying to be a little bit tongue -in -cheek here. Like, he was trying to say that it's not great to be an angel without saying that... without explicitly saying that being an angel is not that desirable. Is that what he's trying to do?

Yeah, so the thing about Divine Comedy that's very important to appreciate is that it's all very subtle. And there's a really important reason for the subtlety. How... So, do you guys know how people learned Divine Comedy or how they transmitted Divine Comedy back then for hundreds of years? Like, if you were in school and we had to learn Divine Comedy, how would we learn it?

So, according to what I remember, like, the teacher would have one book and he would read it, and he would read it on the podium, and you listen and you copy it down.

And then what would you do? You memorized it, do you understand? Okay? So, remember how... before we said that Divine Comedy is meant to be read aloud and listened to? Well, it's also meant to be memorized. And what's happening is that Divine Comedy is designed to expand your imagination. And obviously, as you memorize Divine Comedy, it's like Shakespeare, right? If you memorize Shakespeare, your fluidity in English language increases, but so does your imagination. And what increases the imagination is the subtlety. The subtlety embedded within Divine Comedy, because you actually don't know what you've memorized. But over time, because it is implanted in your brain, almost as an operating software, the more experiences you have, the more questions you have, the poem expands in your imagination. It's infinite. And then it drives you into greater imagination yourself. And that's why I say that Divine Comedy is really the... the basis of the Renaissance. Because if you

just look at any Renaissance painting, you can trace it back to a line or a tercet in Divine Comedy, right? And what's happened is that line has expanded itself inside the brain. And it's almost like seeds taking root and just growing into trees. And so that's what the effect of Divine Comedy is. And it works because of paradox and subtlety. If it's too blatant, if it's too in your face, then your mind doesn't focus it on as much, okay? But because it's so subtle, you feel as though there's some stuff I have not yet discovered, right? It's like a puzzle you're trying to assemble together. Your brain keeps on working subconsciously on it for like 40, 50 years. And that's really the power of Divine Comedy. And that's why it's really hard for people to express the impact of Divine Comedy, because it works at a subconscious level. And this is what Carl Jung would refer to as the collective unconscious, okay?

It's really the very basis of modernity. Look, the reality... Look, if you think about it, the reason why we're able to sit down together and have these very rich discussions about the Divine Comedy, what enables this discussion is the fact that Donny created modernity itself, right? Created the idea of individuality. Created the idea of debate, dialogue, okay? So we are living in Donny's world, and we basically have minds that are shaped by Donny himself, alright? Does that make sense? Okay, any more questions before we continue, before we begin? Alright, so now what I want to do is I want to look at a comment from YouTube that I found very interesting, okay? And it's from YouTube. It's just a comment. It's a very long comment. So here it is. Carol, could you do me a favor and read the comment? And this goes back to discussion from last class, which is the coin.

What is the coin doing in heaven? What is its purpose, right? The coin is meant to be a metaphor for faith, but that doesn't really make sense because the coin represents something material. And this person has a very interesting explanation. Okay, can you read, Carol? Yeah.

In Paradiso, Canto 24, right at line number 24, Beatrice officially hands Dante over to St. Peter to initiate the examination. In Alan Mandelbaum's translation, that exact line reads, and tests him as he pleads on matters grave. Dante deliberately places the word tested at line 24 inside Canto 24, inside the sphere of the 24 elders, the traditional symbol of the codified, closed scriptural canon. He is screaming to the reader that he's stepping into an institutional trap. This directly mirrors the structural constraints found in the original four gospels, the Peter paradigm. The entire miracle of the coin in the fish's mouth begins precisely at verse 24. Here, the establishment corners Peter to demand, and institutional tax. Dante mirrors this textually. The exact disciple who watched Jesus bypass human currency by extracting it from nature is transformed in Canto 24 into the ultimate papal gatekeeper, demanding a standardized church coin from Dante's purse. The interrogation blueprint, this verse

establishes the scriptural precedent for institutional authorities demanding official credentials from a wild spiritual force, stating that the Pharisees questioned him. Dante uses his own line 24 to step into this exact role, submitting to Peter's interrogation on paper to satisfy the religious empire. The illusion of the purse, here, Jesus stuns the disciple by declaring how difficult it is for those reliant on physical coins and institutional currency to enter the kingdom. Dante plays on this irony by using purse imagery to satisfy Peter, knowing full well that in the infernal, purses are the exact symbols used to damn corrupt popes. The trap of power. At the Last Supper, a dispute arises among the disciples as to which of them was considered to be the greatest. The disciples were already craving an earthly hierarchy. By looking at the textual architecture of the comedy, we can see Dante was playing a master level game. He knew that physical institutions and dogmatic checklists were destined to crumble.

By using the stamped coin at line 24, Dante wasn't blindly submitting to church dogma. He was using the empire's own currency to smuggle his formless cosmic fire past the medieval gatekeepers.

Okay, yeah, so this is brilliant, okay? And it shows you the level of complexity of the divine comedy. All right, so let me make certain points. Point number one is, last class, we appreciated how the literary analysis of divine comedy, how deep it is at a literary level. And you can only understand that if you understand the Italian, right? Here, this person is pointing out to the numerology of the divine comedy. The numerological structure of it. 24, you may not know this, but 24 is a very important number for a variety of reasons. But 24 doesn't just refer to the Bible. What it really is referring to is the classic epic poems of the world at this time, which are Homer, the Iliad, the Odyssey, and Virgil's Iliad. These are all written in 24 books. Okay, so 24 is almost like a divine, mystical number at this point. So that's why it's important. So the numerology is something that you can spend decades examining.

And obviously, he's doing that. Second point is how subversive divine comedy is. So we look at divine comedy at a pretty simplistic level. But if you just go line by line, you can see how divine comedy is constantly subverting itself. How your interpretation is breaking down if you do more and more analysis. And that's intentional. And the reason why he does that is to make divine comedy infinite universe, where you can go back and explore forever. And the third point that's very important to appreciate is that ultimately, what Dante wants is for us to always question authority. To question not just Peter, to not only question the church, but to also question Dante. And ultimately, to question ourselves. To create a constant, almost an infinite process of self -inquiry, self -debate, and self -discovery. And that's why you can spend your entire life just reading divine comedy at multiple angles.

And it's never enough. So the ultimate goal of our seminar is just to introduce you to divine comedy. Do not believe that I'm giving you the final interpretation. Okay? That's silly. This comment shows you how complicated divine comedy is. Okay? But I'm providing you a framework in order for you to engage your own process of self -creation, self -discovery, when you journey into divine comedy. Right? Because once you have the framework, it allows you to better understand and journey through divine comedy. But then, as you journey some more, you will break down this framework and create your own framework. Okay? This is a process that Harold Bloom, the great Yale literary scholar, refers to as creative self -destruction. Okay? Right? Yes?

So after you read the comment about St. Peter, I'm actually inspired to ask a question. So yesterday, we talked about how Peter was pointing at the Vatican on Earth. And he was going, ah, these guys are nasty. But Peter here himself, by asking Dante, the pilgrim, about the coin, is also complicit in what the church is doing. So what point is Dante trying to make here? Is he trying to say that St. Peter is criticizing the church? Is he trying to say that St. Peter is the church? Or is he saying that St. Peter is a mix of the two?

Okay. What makes Dante very hard for people to understand is at the heart of Dante is his democratic spirit. Okay? He is absolutely anti -power, anti -hierarchy, anti -status. Right? So the idea that after Jesus died, Peter will then become the first pope, Dante finds this perverting Jesus' legacy. Because Jesus came to our world and sacrificed himself in order to free us, to liberate us. From power itself. Right? And then for Peter to say, well, I was closest to Jesus. Because remember, after he died, the apostles fought over his legacy. Dante felt this is a perversion of the message of Jesus. Okay? The message of Jesus is that there is divinity within us. And if we look into us, we can liberate ourselves. We don't need God. We don't need hierarchy. We don't need the church anymore. Okay? That's the ultimate message of Jesus. And that's what Dante is trying to do in the Divine Comedy as well.

Right?

I learned from a Yale scholar. Great question, Rene. So I was looking back at Yale Professor Mazotta's interpretation of this canto. And there are tons of paradoxes, including the coin. And so on verse 37, 38 of Canto 24, Do test this man concerning the faith by which you walked upon the sea. Ask him points light and grave, da, da, da, da, da. So I don't know if you remember from the Bible that Peter was actually quite doubtful when Jesus asked him to walk upon the sea. He actually didn't have sufficient faith until Jesus is like, why aren't you going there? And then he ended up doing that. But I think it's also very human. It's also very human. And I think that's one of the paradoxes things.

And it's ironic that Peter is the one who asked about faith. Because if you read the Gospels, Peter is the one who has the least faith in Jesus. Right? And that's what Jesus tells Peter. And so there's so much irony embedded in the Divine Comedy. Okay. Any more comments or questions before we move on? Okay. So something really interesting happened yesterday while you guys were on a break. And one of you wrote a poem. Okay? And I don't want to put you in a spot, but I ask for your permission and we're going to read the poem together. Okay? So can you come please and help us read the poem? Well, first of all, introduce yourself and tell us the background as to how you came to write this poem.

Yeah. My name is Jay Ong. How I came to write this poem. I had some time to kill in my hotel room yesterday. And I, you know, obviously being away from family, it's Father's Day weekend, it's kind of difficult. So, you know, decided to make something in the spirit of Dante, in the spirit of hope for, you know, for my kids. Yeah. So that's where this comes from.

Okay. So can you just read us a poem tonight?

For far in the glass room, no hu jang. No can ching rain on the stones, no green hu dang. Just quiet. Sorry. Just quiet and a week in the old poet's country of light. Learning the sea between us. There it was. Learning the sea between us. Is a. Is a. Sorry. Is a. What was that? My own writing. It's a trick we keep playing. The souls that look scattered. Each. Each one on its own. Not split at all. One light. Tak ada yang hilang. This is in Malay, too. So. So you are. You are near. Though the South Sea is between us. Glass rooms. Glass room. Far light. And still. The jalan pulang. And love. The poet says. Moves the sun and stars. And binds. The loose pages of life. Into one. From a hawking mountain. To green water. The long climb came. Only to. Stand up. In you. Three of you. Each holding a different measure.

None holding half. Each of you hold. The way a man once. Crossed this. Dark sea. To his son. With nothing to give. But I see you. Climb. Jangan hilang. That's all. That's all. Sayang. From the. Far edge of. Of it all. Um. As we. Turn. Through the dark. Up. The long climb hope.

Great. Thank you so much. That was beautiful. Okay. All right. So. Um. Can you tell us what the poem is about?

Um. It's about. For me. It's about. Um. Um. Being away. And I'm trying to convey. Uh. To my kids. Why I'm away. And uh.

Yeah. Okay. So. You see. What's happened. Is that. He could only write this poem. Because of his love. For his children. Right. This. This. Cosmic connection. With. His children. And. That's why. We need. To recognize. That. For Dante. Beatrice. Is a real person. Okay. So. They didn't know each other that. That well. They met when. When they were eight or nine. Spent a few years together. Then they. They. They went apart. They. They were apart. And then Beatrice died when she was like 24. Okay. So the time they actually spent together. Was not that much. But when we read Divine Comedy. She comes across. As a real person. And. For Dante. She was a real person. Uh. She was in constant. Constant communication. With her soul. It is possible to do this. Like. Where you're not even together. She may not even be. Alive. She was not alive. But. With your imagination. With your. Love.

You can. Be. In communication with her. Across dimensions. Okay. And that's what drives the poetry. All right. That's why. Love has to be between. Two people. It can't be between. You and God. It can't be between. Between. You and money. Or anything material. It has to be between. Two people. Okay. And. And. Uh. You focus your. Love. In a way. And. Directed a person. Your. Imagination. Just explodes. Okay. That's what drives. Your imagination. All right. So. This is a testament. To that. So. Thank you very much. All right. Okay. So. We are now. In. Heaven. And when we're in heaven. There's a problem. Because. In heaven. There's no time. Okay. But if you can't. Perceive. What's the only way. That you can. See then. If you can't. Perceive. Excuse me. Imagine. No. You don't. No. Not imagination. Right. What?

Um. You can. Use. Your. Spiritual. Spidey. Senses.

Okay. Well. That's actually a word. For. Spiritual. Spidey. Sense. It's called what? Hmm? Intuition. Or what? Uh. Intuition. Well. What's behind your intuition? Come on guys. Like. Your. Your. Your. Intuition. Your. Spidey. Sense. What do we call that? How. How do you see. You can't see. You feel. Yeah. Exactly. Thank you. Yes. Your emotions. Right. Okay. So. In other words. When he goes to heaven. He can't actually. See anything. But. Because it's so blinding. It's so beautiful. Okay. But he can feel it. And so. What he's trying to do is convey. Uh. Heaven. To us. Through his poetry. And. Um. So. What heaven is. Is. Our happiest. Moment. It is pure bliss. Pure joy. Pure happiness. Okay. So. To start the class. I want us. To. Think. All. Our happiest. Memory. A memory. That brings. Constant. Delight. To us. As we think more and more about it. And then that helps us better understand. The.

Architecture. Of heaven. Okay. So. I'm gonna write this down. All right. And like. Again. Uh. I just want. Happy memories. Your happiest memory. Okay. Anyone. Yes.

Uh.

I remember. That one time. When. I was. Okay. This sounds silly. But I was in primary school. And the teacher was about to. Punish someone. Unjustly. For something. That. He wasn't really at fault for doing. And I stood up to. The teacher. And I told her. That's. That's stupid. And everyone. In the class. Cheered for me. And in the end. The guy didn't get punished. Yes.

That's a great memory. Yes. Thank you. Right. Your. Selfless. Generosity. Okay. Selfless. Sacrifice. That's rewarded. All right. That's one good memory. Yes. That's a great memory. By the way. Beautiful. Yes.

Yes. Uh. I remember. When I was. First time. In New York. I. I. Saying. Everything. Is. New. Everything. Is. Different. This.

Yes. What else. Yes.

For me. It was. After. The IB. Exams. I finally. Got to sleep. For 12 hours. And when I woke up. It was. The happiest. Feeling. I've ever felt. Okay.

We call this. Relieve. And release. Right. Relieve. And release. So. The idea. Is. You know. For. Quite a few months. You were nervous. And all this tension. Built up. In. In you. Right. And then you were able to. Release it. Good. What else. Yes.

Um. So. I would like to share. My experience. Of getting my. My dog. Because it was really special. For me. I have been. Like. Basically. Begging. My parents. To have. A dog. For such a long time. And. We were going to adopt. But. There were. Always. Things. In the way. So. We couldn't get a dog. And finally. I did. Um. During my first year. In middle school. And that was really. My happiest memory. I'm so glad. That I have my dog. Right. Yeah.

So. It's idea. Wish fulfillment. Right. You have a wish. This is something. That you. Always wanted. And it. Fulfills itself. So. Wish fulfillment. Good. What else. Yes.

To return home. After. A year. Of studying abroad. And stuff. Like. The minute. I hit the airport. I'm like. Yeah. I'm back.

Exactly. Right. Returning home. Right. I would say. Returning home. Yeah. Exactly. What else. Yes.

When I first. Met my. Jazz piano hero. For the first time. In his live show.

Right. So. So. There's. A concept. Flow. Right. Which is. Intense. Focus. Or. Devotion. To. Your passion. Okay. Yes. So. Flow. Yes. Yes.

If. I may. I think. This. Counts. Inside. Of. Really. Being. In the flow. But. Especially. I'm. Really. Into. Mathematics. And. When. I. Understand. A really. Difficult. Mathematics. Concept. I feel. Really. Happy. And. Because. I have. A lot. Of. Friends. Around. Me. That. I can. Really. Talk. About. This. Kind. Of. Stuff. With. Them. It. Makes. Me. Feel. Makes. Me. Feel. Very. Good. That. I'm. Actually. Able. To. Understand. All. Of. This. And. Able. To. Talk. To. People. About. It. That. Really. Understand. What. I.

Yeah. I. Wouldn't. Say. This. Is. Flow. I. Would. Say. This. Is. More. Like. Self. Creation. Okay. Yes. Anyone. Else.

I'm. Curious. About. What's. Your. Happiest. Name.

Well. Well. Obviously. My. Children. Yeah. When. I'm. With. My. Children. Yes. Anyone. Else. Yes.

I.

Remember. Like. Back. Then. I. Met. This. Girl. Online. And. I. Just. I. Just. And. I. Feel. Like. Like. My. Soul. Ecstasy. And. My. Soul. Fumbles. And. Back. To. We. We. Didn't. Even. You. Know. So.

I. Understand. Thank. You. Okay. This. Is. A. Connection. Right. Connection. Right. Also. Community. All. Right. Yes. Thank. You. Anyone. Else. Yes.

I. Was. Born. Raised. In. My. And. The. Neighborhood. And. To. The. Community. So. I. Felt. Most. Excited. And. Most. Happy. When. I. Won. Those. You. Know. Awards. And. In. Those. Competitions. In. My. Home. Town. And. Bring. Honor. To. My. Family. And. My. School. And. The. Whole. City. So. I. Couldn. Imagine. Something. Even. Greater. Than. That. So. For. Me. It's. To. Be. In. The. Right. Community. And. To. Supported. And. To. To. Lead. That. Community. And. To. Bring. Honor. To. That. Community.

Great. Yeah. So. This. We. Will. This. Recognition. And. Validation. Right. You. Are. Recognized. For. Your. Achievements. And. You. Are. Validated. For. Them. Good. Okay. Great. This. Is. A. Lot. Anyone. Else.

Like. Sometime. In. An. Museum. I. Can. Experience. Kind. Of. Transcendental. And. Mysterious. Aesthetic. Experience. Yeah.

Beauty. Right. When. Consider. Something. Beautiful. You. Are. Very. Happy. Okay. So. Yeah. We. On. Going. Okay. But. You. Get. That. Sense. Of. What. Happiness. Is. Right. And. What. Heaven. Is. Is. Every. Second. There's. Just. Continuous. Happiness. Right. So. Think. Of. Your. Happiest. Moment. And. Then. Just. Think. That. This. Goes. On. Forever. Okay. So. That's. What. Is. All. Right. Let. Ask. You. A. Question. Let. Me. Now. Ask. You. A. Question. Are. There. Any. Songs. Or. Poems. Or. Artwork. That. Triggers. Your. Happiness. Okay. Like. What. Are. They. Yes.

Hyper. Specific. Medieval. Illuminated. Manuscripts.

Okay. Sure. Okay. Manuscripts. Okay. Sure. Okay. What. Else.

Yes. I. Say. House. Music. House. Music.

Okay. All. Right. Yes.

I. Would. Say. Some. Like. Really. Classical. Music. Like. Really. In. The. Middle. Ages. But. Maybe. Not. That. Really. Yeah.

What. Else.

Me. Is. A. Novel. But. It. Has. Really. Beautiful. Prose. And. It. It. The. Words. Are. Used. In. A. Way. That. Are. So. Unique. And. Creative. That. It. Shocks. You.

Good. Okay. So. Guys. Music. Is. Thing. That's. Going. To. Trigger. Your. Happiest. Memories. And. Probably. Also. Your. Other. Memories. As. Well. But. So. That's. What. Don. Is. Gonna. Do. He's. Going. To. Construct. Because. He. Doesn't. Remember. Anything. Okay. Don. Is. Gonna. Keep. On. Saying. About. This. How. He. Goes. To. The. Imperium. And. He's. Gonna. Meet. God. It. Doesn't. Remember. Anything. Because. It. Is. So. Blinding. Because. It's. So. Beyond. Time. And. Space. Okay. But. What. He. Has. Is. The. Emotions. With. It. And. From. These. Emotions. He's. Gonna. Reconstruct. Reimagine. His. Experience. In. Imperium. In. A. That. We. Can. Appreciate. And. He's. Gonna. Design. The. Poem. With. The. Music. In. A. Way. That. Triggers. Our. Happiest. Memories. So. That. We. Can. Experience. With. Him. The. Imperium. Okay. Does. That. Make. Sense. Okay. All. Right. So. We. Now. Move. Towards. Cancel. 30. The. Imperium. Okay. Again. We. Saw. The. Angels. We. Turning. A. Long. Way. Through. The. Cosmos.

And. Now. We. Are. Finally. In. The. Imperium. And. Again. What. Is. Paradoxical. About. Heaven. Is. That. There. Is. In. Fact. A. Hierarchy. Right. Just. Because. You. Go. To. Heaven. Doesn't. Mean. That. You've. Succeeded. Because. There. Are. Some. Really. Dumb. Kids. In. Heaven. Okay. Like. Picarda. And. The. Hierarchy. Of. The. Heavens. Also. Suggests. That. There. Are. Certain. Things. That. You. Have. To. Doubt. For. Example. Why. Is. Peter. Right. Why. Is. He. Outside. The. Imperium. Right. That. Makes. You. Question. A. Of. Things. He. Says. So. Again. There's. So. Much. Subtlety. There's. So. Much. Nuance. There's. So. Much. Paradox. Divine. Comedy. It. Forces. You. Into. A. Lifetime. Of. Self. Inquiry. Okay. All. Right. So. So. Let's. Lead. Read. Paradise. 30.

Canto. 30. Perhaps. 6,000. Miles. Away. From. Us. The. Six. Hour. Burns. And. Now. Our. World's. Inclines. Shadow. To. An. Almost. Level. Bed. So. That. The. Span. Of. Heaven. High. Above. Begins. To. Alter. So. That. Some. Stars. Are. No. Longer. To. Be. Seen. From. Our. Deep. Earth. And. As. The. Brightest. Handmade. Of. The. Sun. Advances. Heaven. Shuts. Off. One. By. One. Its. Lights. Until. The. Lovely. Loveliest. Is. Gone. So. Did. The. Triumph. That. Forever. Plays. Around. The. Point. That. Overcame. Me. Point. That. Seems. Enclosed. By. That. Which. It. Encloses.

The. Point. Of. Course. Refers. To. God. Okay. And. What's. Really. Important. Understand. Is. Like. God. Is. Both. Being. And. Becoming. Okay. So. God. Is. A. Source. A. Big. Bang. But. Also. God. Is. The. Perimeter. Okay. All. The. Universe. Right. And. How. Do. We. Expand. The. Perimeter. Of. The. Universe. The. Imagination. Do. You. Understand. Okay. So. We. Humans. And. This. Is. What's. Really. Shocking. About. Don. Is. That. He's. Saying. That. We. Humans. Participate. In. The. Creation. Process. Ourselves. Whenever. We. Use. Our. Imagination. And. What. He's. Gonna. Say. That's. Even. More. Controversial. Is. That. Only. We. Can. Do. This. Okay. Not. The. Angels. Not. God. Nothing. Else. But. Human. Okay. All. Right. Keep. On. Going.

Fade. Gradually. From. My. Sight. So. That. My. Seeing. Nothing. Else. And. Love. Compelled. My. Eyes. To. Turn. Again. To. Beatrice. If. That. Which. Has. Been. Said. Of. Her. So. Far. We're. All. Contained. Within. A. Single. Praise. It. Would. Be. Much. Too. Scant. To. Serve. Me. Now. The. Loveliness. I. Saw. Surpassed. Not. Only. Our. Human. Measure. And. I. Think. That. Surely. Only. Its. Maker. Can. Enjoy. Fully. I. Yield. I'm. Defeated. At. This. Passage. More. Than. A. Comic. Or. Tragic. Poet. Has. Ever. Been. By. Barrier. In. His. Theme. For. Like. The. Sun. That. Strikes. The. Frailest. Eye. So. Does. The. Memory. Of. Her. Sweet. Smile. Deprived. Me. Of. The. Use. Of. My. Mind. From. That. First. Day. When. In. This. Life. I. Saw. Her. Face. Until. I. Had. This. Vision. No. Thing. Ever. Cut. The. Sequence. Of. My. Song. But. Now. I. Must. Assist. From. This. Pursuit. In. Verses. Of. Her. Loveliness. Justice. Each. Artist. Who. Has.

Reached. His. Limit. Must.

Okay. So. Beatrice. And. Dante. Have. Reached. Imperium. This. Is. Journey's. End. And. It. Is. Love. For. Beatrice. That. Has. Carried. Him. Anyone.

Describe. Beatrice. Or. Is. What. He. Wants. To. Do.

He. Wants. To. Write. Poetry. To. Beatrice. Right. Do. Understand. For. Him. Your. Fullest. Expression. Of. Your. Love. Someone. Is. To. Your. Imagination. To. Express. The. Poetry. Because. What. Because. Why. Would. You. Want. To. That. Why. Would. You. Want. To. The. Poetry.

Because.

You. Help. To. Express. How. Much. Love. You. Have. For. This. Person. Or. How. Awesome. Wonderful. This. Person. Is.

Right. So. Poetry. Is. The. Highest. Expression. Of. Your. Love. For. Someone. But. Why. Is. That. The. Case. Yes. To. Connect. To. Unify. With. Those. Who. You. Love. To. Connect. With. Those. Who. You. Love. And. Also. To. Show. Your. Love. And. Brings. Others. Into. This. Love. As. Well. You. Understand. That's. What. Poetry. Is. Doing. Yeah. Yeah. Of. Course.

It. Immortalizes. Love. Kind. Of. Life. That. She. Experienced. On. It.

That's. Right. Right. To. Share. Your. Love. Across. Time. And. Space. Okay. So. That's. What. Wants. To. Do. What's. His. Problem. Is. A. Problem. What. What's. A. Problem. He. Spent. His. Entire. Life. Writing. Love. Poetry. To. Beatrice. In. Order. To. Immortalize. Her. In. Order. Immortalize. Her. Love. Their. Love. But.

What's. So. That. Is. Why. But. You. Know. The. Love. Is. Something. That. You. Cannot. You. Cannot. Touch. You. Really. Want. It. But. You. Cannot. Touch. That. Is. Love. You. Can. Touch. It. Not. Love. This. Kind. Of. Responsibility. And. Have. To. Pay. Everything. For. Her.

My. Point. Being. That. Ideally. You. Want. To. Marry. Someone. You. Love. And. If. You. Break. The. Vows. Of. Marriage. Which. By. The. Way. You. Made. To. God. Because. You. Met. Your. Soulmate. Then. You. Are. Also. Betraying. God. In. Process.

Okay. Sorry. Um. Okay. Ideally. Okay. But. In. The. Real. World. There. Are. Things. Such. As. Class. Hierarchies. There. Are. Lots. Of. Constraints. Right. So. So. Um. Beatrice. And. Donny. Came. From. Different. Class. Backgrounds. And. In. Culture. All. Marriages. Are. Arranged. Right. There's. No. Dating. Market. It's. Like. You. Don't. Go. Online. Says. Um. And. Love. Is. The. Expression. Of. Beauty. And. Truth. Okay. All. Right. Okay. So. The. Question. Is. What's. The. Problem. Here. He. Wants. To. Write. A. Poem. To. Beatrice. He. Wants. To. A. Verse. But. There's. A. Problem. What's. The. Problem.

I.

Mean. In. The. Poem. He. Does. Say. Right. I. Must. Desist. From. This. Pursuit. In. Verses. Of. Her. Loveliness. Just. As. Each. Artist. Who. Has. Reached. His. He's. Reached. His. Limit. Yeah.

But. Why. Has. He. Reached. His. Limit. Because.

She's. Heavenly. And. He's. Earthly. And. Can't. Like. Fully. Express. How. Good. She. Is. He. Ran. Out. Of. Words. For. Maybe.

Okay. Well. That's. True. But. It's. Not. Because. He's. Earthly. And. She's. Heavenly. Right. It's. Because. In. Their. Ascent. Beatrice. Has. Become. More. Beautiful. Over. Time. Right. And. So. Once. We. Reach. This. Point. He. Now. Has. Reached. The. Limit. Why. Should. We. Not. Believe. Him.

Because. There's. No. Real. Limitation. For. The. Imagination.

Exactly. First. Of. All. There's. No. Limitation. Also. He's. Not. Modest. Man. That. Is.

Not. There. A. Herald. That. Is. Greater. Than. My. Trumpet. Which. Nears. The. End. Of. Its. Heart. Theme. With. Voice. And. Bearing. Of. A. Guide. Whose. Work. Is. Done. Began. Again. From. Matter's. Largest. Sphere. We. Now. Have. Reached. The. Heaven. Of. Pure. Light. Light. Of. The. Intellect. Light. Filled. With. Love. Love. Of. True. Good. Love. Filled. With. Happiness. A. Happiness. Surpassing. Every. Sweetness. Here. You. Will. See. Both. Ranks. Of. Paradise. And. See. One. Of. Them. Wearing. The. Same. Aspect. Which. You. Will. See. Again. At.

The. Good. Love. Filled. With. Happiness. A. Happiness. Surpassing. Every. Sweetness. It's. Like. A. Song. Okay. It's. A. very um lyrical song that conjures up our our best memories okay again we don't have the italian but if we did i think that's what that's what would happen okay it's it's like the highest possible um vibration okay it's very light very lovely pure joy so imagine angels singing okay this poetry is really angels singing together okay um keep on going verse 46 yeah 46. okay

like sudden lightning scattering the spirits of sight so that the eye is then too weak to act on other things it would perceive such was the living light encircling me leaving me so enveloped by its veil of radiance that i could see no thing the love that calms this heaven always welcomes into itself with such a salutation to make the candle ready for the light of the day for its flame no sooner had these few words entered me then i became aware that i was rising beyond the power that was mine and such new vision kindled me again that even the purest life would not have been so bright as to defeat my eyes deny my sight and i saw light that took a river's form light flashing reddish grow reddish gold between two banks painted with wonderful spring flowerings out of that stream there issued living sparks which settled on the flowers on all

sides like ruby said in gold and then as if intoxicated with the olders with the odors they again plunged into the amazing flood as one spark sank another spark emerged the high desire that now inflames incites you to grasp mentally the things you see pleases me more as it swells more but first that you may satisfy your mighty thirst you must drink of these waters so did she fall into the water of the holy water of the holy water of the holy water of the holy who is the son of my eyes speak to me she added this the river and the gems of topaz entering and leaving and the grass is laughter these are shadow shadowy prefaces of their truth not that these things are lacking in themselves the defect lies in you whose sight is not yet that sublime

okay so he says this he's reached the limit of his imagination you can't describe his beauty anymore and now what uh beatrice is saying to him is that to truly experience god you need your imagination to be limitless right and so drink from the light uh did you have a question yeah i have a question like

uh personally i find this thematically a little bit weird so earlier on he was talking about circles of angels and about light and about beatrice being so great that he can't describe her and we have to notice that these are all very abstract things like he literally cannot conceptualize them in physical matter anymore however here he can suddenly conceptualize things again he's suddenly talking about the river and about the flower banks so what prompted this shift and what place does it have here um i i don't i don't agree with

you i think he's always been able to visualize this i think this is a very visual poem right i mean like just look at the artwork from here i mean it's it's pretty visual so at no point did he actually lose his imagination when when he's saying i've reached the limit of my imagine of imagination it's just it's just telling um us and him we need to work harder guys this is a quote this is a co -creation process not only do i have to like work harder to create the words to describe my experience but you have to devote yourself further and invest your imagination further to really truly appreciate what i'm saying okay all right so the idea here is that he's reached the limits of his imagination and so what does beatrice tell me to do not the water what does what must he drink the light okay and it is but

it is metaphor described as water because why would he do that what is you what is

he really describing here um i remember in the bible in the new testament the samaritan woman and jesus said if you follow me i will give you the living water so maybe it's a metaphor for that

yeah it's it's a baptism right it's an initiation into faith okay right does it make sense like when you when you absorb this light it is giving you a new faith a new life to truly activate your imagination because that's what you'll need if you're truly to meet god it doesn't make sense okay let's let's keep on going verse 82.

yep no infant who wakes long after his usual hour would turn his face toward milk as quickly as i hurried toward that stream to make still finer mirrors of my eyes i bent down toward the waters which flow there that we in them may find our betterment but as my eyelids eaves drank of that wave it seemed to me that it had changed its shape no longer straight that flow now formed around then just as massacres when they set aside a the borrowed likeness in which they hide seemed to be other than they were before so were the flowers and the sparks transformed changing to such festivity before me that i saw clearly both

of heaven's courts okay so as he's drinking the light his very perception of the heavens are changing okay so this is extending his imagination this is transcending his imagination so now he can he actually see heaven okay and when he sees heaven he can now just

drive heaven to us 97 o radiance of god through which i saw the noble triumph of the true realm give to me the power to speak of what i saw above on high there's a light that makes apparent the creator to the creature whose only peace lies in his seeing him the shape which that light takes as it expands is circular and its circumference would be too great a girdle for the sun all that one sees of it derives from one light ray the light of the sun is reflected from the summit of the primum mobile which from it draws power and life and how as a hill is mirrored in waters at its base as if to see itself when which with grass and flowers grazed so in a thousand tears that towered above the light and circling it i saw mirrored all of us who have one return above and if the lowest

rank and gathers such vast light then what must be the measure of this rose where it has reached its highest point highest leaves within that breadth and height i did not find my vision gone astray or it took in that joy in all its quality and kind there near and far do not subtract or add for where god governs with no mediator no thing depends upon the laws of nature and so the yellow of the eternal rose that slopes and stretches and diffuses fragrance of praise unto the son of endless spring now beatrice drew me as one who though he would speak out it's silent and he's and she said see how great is this council of white robes see how much space our city's circuit spans see how our seated ranks are now so full that little room is left for any more and in that seat on which your eyes have fixed because

a crown already waits above it before you join this wedding feast shall sit the soul of noble henry he who is on earth to be imperial he shall show italy the righteous way but when she's unready the blind greediness bewitching you has made you like the child who dies of hunger and drives off his nurse and in the holy forum such shall be at the prefect then that either openly or secretly he will not walk with henry but god will not endure him long within the holy ministry he shall be cast down there where simon may mages pace he shall тями force the anagnin deeper into his home.

Okay, all right. So again, now Dante is able to see the pyramid in its entirety. And it's basically like two roses, and in the rows are seated those who are closest to God. And we'll see their ranks later on. And this will be the last time that Beatrice will speak. And again, they're in the Imperium. And what Beatrice is talking about is a prophecy, okay? So this is, again, the year 1300. Dante will finish this in 1321, but he's right in the year 1300. A few years from now, Henry VII, the Holy Roman Emperor, will invade Italy and try to unify Italy. And then he will be betrayed by the Pope, Clement, okay? So what Beatrice is saying is that noble Henry has this divine mission, okay? He's almost like sent by God to lead Italy in a righteous way. But unfortunately, Italy was not yet ready for the grace of God.

And so he was betrayed, and he failed in his mission. And so the person who... who is responsible for this failure is Clement, and God will punish Clement as Simon Magus was punished as well. If you know Catholic theology, you know that Simon Magus is a heretic, right? The first great heretic of the Catholic faith. And so it's troubling because we are now in heaven, right? And heaven is supposed to be the happiest memories, right? This pure happiness. And... And Beatrice is being angry. She's clearly angry about what's going to transpire. And so what's going on here? What... How can we explain or reconcile this paradox where she's in heaven, and this is the happiest memories of the happiest people. There should be no hatred. There should be no anger. Yet, in her final words to Dante, she tells him a prophecy. A prophecy of betrayal, of hatred. What's going on here? Yes?

So, like I said last time, I think maybe it's because Dante isn't here to stay. Like, he isn't here to bathe in happiness and to stay an angel or whatever he's doing. He is here to carry a message back to earth. And that's why she's telling him all this. This is like the secrets. This is like the top, the Pentagon secrets. And they're telling him this. They're telling him this in front of God, like at the preface of God, because that's the most secret layer. And she's telling him this so that he can carry the message back to earth.

And what is his message?

The message that all this is going to go down, and Henry is actually a nice guy and all that.

Well, Dante knows that.

Well, he knows that, but the people who read it don't know that.

Right, because he's reading this in 1321. He's seen everything that transpired. He was the one who wrote letters to Henry praising him for his efforts. But again, it's like... We're in heaven, and we're taught that in heaven, you're able to let go of your bad memories, right? You're able to embrace your good memories. This is clearly a bad memory. What's going on here? Yes?

I think maybe also Dante is trying to weave his own political views into this story, just because I'm not sure, since this is, after all, his imagination.

Yeah, so this is what most scholars believe, okay? Most scholars believe that Dante has this political... And he's trying to settle scores. But for the past week, I've been telling you guys that let's work the assumption, let's work with the faith that this poem is perfect, and that everything in it makes sense. And as long as we're able to imagine hard enough, have enough faith and hope and love, we can make sense of what's really going on, okay? And to say, well, you know, he was just angry. And his political vendetta, yeah, it does make sense. But I want to try harder, okay? I want us to use our imagination and figure out what's really going on here. Why is Pietro's last words to Dante full of anger and hatred? Yes?

So this is probably a really far -off explanation, but I can remember, like, both in my life and in the Bible, some cases when your anger is... So righteous, like, sometimes it's the anger of God, and it's so righteous that it feels like joy. It feels like you're... It feels like you're reveling in your anger, and you know that what you're angry towards is right.

Yeah, so you're saying that Beatrice is... Anger makes her happy.

Hmm.

Huh. Yeah, that's a possibility. But let's keep on using our imagination, right? Okay. Okay, all right. So let's go to the year 1300, okay? And you are a Catholic believer. What do the Church Fathers teach you about evil in this world? Yes? The year 1300, guys, not today, okay? Catholic Church is very different, yes? Evil comes from Satan. Right, but what do you do about evil in this world?

Seven deadly sins.

No, I'm saying, like, if you see evil, if evil happens to you in this world... What do you do?

There will be just retribution, but you may not need to do it. There would be a divine plan for it.

Um, okay. There's actually a much simpler explanation. What are people literally taught at this time in history about evil and injustice?

I think people have just been taught, do not just against God, not against the Church. But he just, I think the Dante just against Church, so maybe he's saying this is quite evil. Uh, yes?

Maybe just accept it, like...

Accept it, why?

Because persecution is a way to make you grow, and, like, do not take things into your own hands. Like, it's God's job.

Yes?

It's all part of God's plan.

Uh, no, no, no, no. There's a really simple logic at work here, okay?

Yes? Just, like, evil is within us, so it's normal to occur.

But where does the evil come from?

From the... The first, uh, sin, like Adam eating the apple?

I understand that, but that was, like, 10,000 years ago. So, why is there still evil? Okay, so this is hard, okay? But at this time in history, what the people were taught is this. We are all born in sin because, or the original sin, because, and that is transmitted to us through our bodies, right? Right? What do our bodies want? Our bodies want sex. They want money, right? Okay? But, our bodies... Our bodies are just temporal things. We all have our bodies for 50 years, 100 years at most. Basically, 40 years, okay? 40 years in the grand scheme of things is nothing, right? So, put up with this persecution, put up with this evil, put up with this injustice for 40 years. You die, you go to heaven, and all you do is experience pure bliss. Pretty simple deal. It's a pretty good deal, right, guys? You see evil around you. You see injustice.

You see sin. Don't worry about it. It doesn't matter. What matters is your salvation. And your salvation demands that you keep yourself free of sin. Okay? Yes?

So, what you're saying is basically Dante doesn't agree with that? Exactly.

He completely disagrees with that. What's he really saying? When you see evil, you should do something.

You should do something about it.

No, no, no. But I'm trying to explain why Peaches is, like, in her final words to Dante, cursing, like, these people, right? Saying, Clement, he's gonna burn in hell, and, like, the people in Italy are ungrateful. Why is she doing that? Yes?

So, I'm confused about something you just said. So, you said that Dante is against the keep -yourself -pure doctrine of the church, and he's against passivity, like, he's not doing nothing. Yeah, he's against? Yeah, that's what you said. But a couple of classes ago, you told us about all that hope and light stuff. And when I asked you why Dante wasn't proactively trying to do some things, and you said, oh, he's acting in hope and light. And when I asked you what that means, you said that it means that he's acting inwards, and he's not acting outwards. So, I want to ask you how to reconcile this. Like, he's both doing something, and he's against doing nothing.

Okay. So, first of all. You don't appreciate. In our world, the greatest action you can take is to use your imagination. Okay? That's what he's going to reveal to us. The greatest act you can take, okay, is to use your imagination. Which means that being a poet is the greatest thing you could possibly ever aspire to. There is no greater people than poets in this world. Okay? Not prophets. Not Jesus. Not conquerors. Not Napoleon. Not Charlemagne. Not Julius Caesar. Always. Okay? That's what living a life of faith, hope, and love is really about. To write poetry that expands the human imagination. Okay? All right? So, let's go back to the original question. Why is Beatrice bitching about the world in heaven? Yes?

Maybe he's mad like this, saying that some people are so heavenly bound that they are not of no earthly origin. So, he's criticizing people who are thinking about heaven, but not doing anything about the earth.

Exactly. Yes. Exactly. What Donnie's trying to say is that, guys, it's not that earth is a prison, and once we do our time, we can go into heaven. That's not how it works. That's all connected. Okay? What happens in heaven happens on earth. What happens on earth happens in heaven. As above, so below. As above, so below. Does that make sense? As below, so above. It's all intertwined together. Just, Beatrice cannot be happy in heaven, because we're so screwed up on earth. You understand? And because we're so screwed up on earth, we screw everything up. So, don't be like, you know what? I see evil, but I'll just go lie in my bed for the next 40 years, and then when I die, I'll experience bliss in heaven. That's not how it works, man. That isn't. If there's evil on earth, there has to be evil on earth. There has to be evil in heaven.

And that's why she's angry. It doesn't make sense. Okay? That's a message Dante has for us. As above, so below. As below, so above. It's all intertwined together. So, Dante is trying to destroy the escapist mentality, the defeatist, escapist, pessimistic mentality of the people at this time. Right? You have to do something. Yes?

Does that mean... The... The... Does that mean the earth, heaven, and hell is all connected? Yes. It's all intertwined together. Yes. So, there must be things in hell and evil in hell. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Therefore, there will be things and evil in earth, and there will be things and evil in heaven. I don't understand. So, there must be things and evil in hell, right? But they are all connected. So... Do... Do you get what I'm saying?

But I think it's connected in an emotional way, not in like the sin in hell transcends to heaven, like you're saying, but it's the sins in hell and on earth that upsets heaven, maybe. Right? Like emotionally, Beatrice is mad, but mad is not.

Okay. Yes?

Yeah. Like, Professor, maybe I have a question that I may need you help me to clarify some concept about the difference between, like, what we have happens on earth and what happens on the heaven. Because if you're saying that, like, no matter where we are, we can all feel or perceive there's good in, there's kind of, or there's evil on both earth and heaven, then how could the heaven and we live in the real world different? Or in other words, like, if we can feel, we can both feel the same thing on earth and heaven, then how could those parts essentially different from each other?

Okay. So the difference between earth and heaven is that heaven is spiritual. Okay. So we are souls. Right? Earth, we have bodies. Do you understand? That's the difference. Okay. So what we experience on earth is different from what we experience in heaven. And what Donnie is going to discuss is, okay, why does the heaven and earth have different Why does it have to be this distinction? Right? Why is it that we're given bodies? And again, in the year 1300, the Catholic Church teaches you that we have bodies because we are a failed science experiment. Okay? Do you understand? All right? What Augustine writes is that, what are we made of? What are we made of? No. That's not what the Bible says. What does the Bible say? We are made of what?

We're made of dirt. Dirt, man.

We are pieces of dirt. That's what we are. So how can we do anything right? And that's like literally what the Bible says. We are made of dirt. Augustine says that then if we are made of dirt, that just means that we are a failed science experiment. Okay? God didn't mean to create us like this, but he did. And now we're completely screwed up. He has to put up with us. Okay? And so we just have to like endure. We just have to like be patient. And then once our bodies wither away and we, our souls can now escape to heaven, we're made of dirt. And then we'll have eternal bliss. Yes?

But that makes very little sense given that first, dirt was created by God. So technically it's also a creation of him. And second, God kind of molded the first man himself. So if it's God doing the creating, even if it's from dirt, then how could it be wrong, man?

Look, look, look, look, look. Okay. I do not want this to like be a theological class. Okay? What I'm telling you is what people in this time believed. And what I'm trying to tell you is how Dante responded. How he responds to this. You understand? I don't want to have this argument. Okay? You don't have to go over it. Go back in time and go argue with Augustine. Okay? All right. Let's continue, please.

Conto 31. So in the shape of that white rose, the Holy Legion was shown to me, the host that Christ with his own blood had taken as his bride. The other host, which flying, sees and sings the glory of the one who draws his, draws its love. And that goodness which granted it such glory, just like a swarm of bees that at one moment enters the flowers and at another turns back to that labor which yields such sweet savor, descended into that vast flower grazed many petals, then again rose up to the eternal dwelling of its love.

Okay. So there are two roses. And these two roses are like stadiums where all the best people are placed. And again, this creates a paradox. Because why do the people of the Catholic Church, why do they have to do this? Why are they in one rose and then everyone else is in another rose? Okay? So there are these paradoxes that make you question the orthodoxy at this time. Keep on going, Carol.

Verse 13. Their faces were all living flame. Their wings were gold. And for the rest, their white was so intense, no snow can match the white they showed. When they climbed down into that flowering rose, from rank to rank, they shared that peace and ardor which they had gained, with wings that fanned their sides. Nor did so vast a throng and flight, although it interposed between the candid rose and light above, obstruct the sight or splendor, because the light of God so penetrates the universe according to the worth of every part, that no thing can impede it. This confident and joyous kingdom, thronged with people of both new and ancient times, turned all its sight and ardor to one mark. O threefold light that, in a single star sparkling into their eyes, contents them so, look down and see our tempest here below. If the barbarians, when they came from a region that is covered

every day by hellas, who wheels with her loved son, were seeing Rome and her vast works struck dumb, when of all mortal things the Lateran was the most eminent, then what amazement must befell me when I to the divine came from the Lord. To the human, to eternity from time, and to a people just and sane from Florence came. And certainly between the wonder and the joy, it must have been welcome to me to hear and speak nothing. And as a pilgrim in the temple he had vowed to reach, renews himself, he looks and hopes he can describe what it was like. So did I journey through the living light, guiding my eyes, from rank to rank, along a path now up, now down, now circling round. There I saw faces given up to love, grazed with another's light and their own smile, and movements grazed with every dignity. By now my gaze had taken in the whole of paradise, its form in general, but without looking hard at any part.

And I, my will rekindled, turning toward my lady, was prepared to ask about those matters that inclined my mind to doubt.

Okay, so Dante now has the vision to see the entirety of Imperium. The seat of God. And he is bewildered, he is amazed, he is stunned by what he has seen. And he is filled with tremendous joy and happiness. And so what he wants to do is share it with Beatrice. He's turning to Beatrice, he wants to lock eyes with her, and they want to smile together in order to share this greatest of joys of being in the Imperium. But, she's now disappeared. Okay, keep on going.

Verse 15. Slide 18. Where I expected her another answered. I thought I should see Beatrice and saw an elder dressed like those who are in glory. His gracious gladness filled his eyes, suffused his cheeks. His manner had that kindliness which suits a tender father. Where is she? I asked him instantly. And he replied, that all your longings may be satisfied. Beatrice urged me from my place. If you look up into the circle that is third from that rank which is highest, you will will see her on the throne her merits have assigned her. I, without answering, then looked on high and saw that round her now her crown took shape as she reflected the eternal rays. No mortal eye, not even one that plunged into deep seas, would be so distant from that region where the highest thunder forms. As there, my sight was far from Beatrice, but distance was no hindrance, for her semblance reached me undimmed by anything between.

O lady, you in whom my hope gained strength, you who for my salvation have allowed your footsteps to be left in hell. In all the things that I have seen, I recognize the grace and benefit that I, depending upon your power and goodness, have received. You drew me out from slavery to freedom by all those paths, by all those means that were within your power, do in me preserve your generosity so that my soul, which you have healed when it is set loose from my bosom, may be saved. May the grace of my body be a soul that you will welcome.

Okay, so what's happening is that Dante has reached Imperium. He is about to meet God, which will be his happiest moment. And obviously, he wants to share it with Beatrice. He's also grateful for Beatrice, who has taken him from hell all the way up to heaven, okay? It's Beatrice, his love for Beatrice that has guided him throughout all this time. His journey for the gospel, his journey from hell to purgatory to heaven, it's all because of Beatrice. And at this moment, when he is about to meet God, something has happened. She's been switched, okay? She's returned to her seat in the rose, and she's been replaced by another guy, Bernard, okay? And Bernard is the one who will take Dante to meet God. This is like really, really, really confusing. Like who, first of all, who the hell is Bernard, okay? We know who Virgil is, we know who Beatrice is, we don't even know who Bernard is.

And like, why make this switch at this crucial time when we are at the climax, when we are at journey's end? Right? Why would this happen? Any theories before we continue, yes?

So first I have a question. So when we're talking about Bernard, I'm pretty sure it's okay to assume that they're a saint, right?

Okay, so some background, okay? Bernard is a saint of the Catholic Church. And what makes him important is, he's almost like the first love poet of the Catholic Church, in the Catholic tradition, okay? Does that make sense? He is one of the co -founders of the Knights Templar. So there's a lot of romantic stories behind him. He, what makes him important? What makes him interesting is that he wrote love poetry to Mary. Not Jesus, not God, but to Mary, okay? And I mean, the standard explanation for why Bernard is a God is because Mary is the Queen of Heaven. There's God, but the Queen of Heaven is Mary, okay? So basically, Bernard is Mary's servant, and so Bernard will use Mary's power in order to help Dante see God completely. Did you have a question?

My theory is like that. Dante is very modest, so he wants you to see...

No, no, no, Dante is not modest. Very arrogant. Dante is the opposite of modest, okay? You will not meet a less modest person than Dante. But keep on going.

So he wants, he's trying to show that he's joining the royal family, and the royal family ranks with the most famous poets in the world?

But Bernard is not one of the most famous poets in the world.

The first love poet in like, in the church?

Okay, right, so, yeah, right. So first of all, he's paying homage to Bernard, right? He's saying, like, you come, I come from this legacy which you started, which is love poetry. The difference is, like, I'm not, I'm actually loving a real person, and you, you love, you know, someone else, yes?

So I think something that's important to realize here is actually something I learn in medievalism. So during the Middle Ages, even the late Middle Ages, love, when used in this context, is not always about sexuality. It's not always about husband and wife.

It's actually the opposite. This is the courtly love tradition, right?

But the courtly love tradition is one part of the Middle Ages. It's not all the Middle Ages. The whole idea of a feudal structure is founded upon the fact that you love your feudal liege, like you love your wife and you love your parents. It's like a feudal version. That's the first point. And the second point is that Wikipedia says here that Bernard is also a reformer of the Benedictines. And so I'm thinking maybe Dante could be hinting at the fact that he is advocating for a type of reform. These are the two points I was going to make.

No, but I understand that. There's lots of reasons. I'm saying the main reason that most people agree on is... First of all, Dante's paying homage to Bernard. The other reason is that the queen of heaven is Mary, and Bernard is considered her greatest earthly servant, okay? Those are the most two accepted reasons. But again, I have a problem understanding why is he making this transition. You have Beatrice? Yes? Sorry, sorry, sorry. At the back, and then you...

Probably because his love for Beatrice has reached its peak. And so he cannot... Use love as a force to ascend. So they need a switch person for him to love someone else and then ascend.

Can you explain? Try to explain this, okay? Elaborate on this idea.

Because basically we were in heaven and he was saying all great things about Beatrice and idolizing her. And so it seems like it reached a peak and it cannot be better. And so as we said, love was the force guiding him. And because it's a peak... To meet God, he would need, like, another, like, more of this force. So switching the person could be a way to ascend.

Okay, so that's interesting, okay? So let me add to what you're saying, okay? To make sure I'm following your logic. So love is the force that got him to this point. But love can't take him further. Is that right? Okay. So he needs another force to take him to God, okay? And what do you think this force will be? .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Not desire, what? Huh? What? Imagination? Yeah, okay. So he was sitting in here. He knows the answer, okay? Love can only take you so far, but if you really want to transcend, it has to be the imagination, okay? So that's a force that's going to take him to the highest heights, okay? Love got him this far, but to go even further, you need the imagination. Okay, does that make sense? Okay, yes?

I was going to say exactly that because also in the text, he replied... that all your longings may be satisfied so i think that like beatrice has sort of like satisfied all his like you know love towards her already so that's why she has to return and also i have a theory that like because he's going to meet god and meet mary right and he is essentially a poet and he wants to share this with the world so he needs to consult with like a poet like bernard sort of like draw from him to expand his imagination to be able to describe the following process if that makes sense and has funny doesn't doesn't like this before

which can sort of a poet in order to increase his imagination yeah so he kind of like so that's why

bernard appears to him because he's like this great uh love poet so yes he had virgil before

in hell um well we'll we'll discuss this starting tomorrow okay but but he's he actually doesn't consult virgil for his poetry okay um anyone else okay so so i i want to us to think about this okay this is like really hard but i want us to think about this okay imagine you have the world's greatest mother okay which is like carol right obviously thank you but she's been with you all this time and she's taking care of all your needs if you are truly to like like you know like this she's fed you the best food she's taught you the best poetry she's loved you throughout okay if you are to truly grow as a person what must you do eventually you have to me you have to like leave man you have to like try to go away leave me alone mom okay that's that's what fanny's doing right now right he's saying

beatrice you've taken me so far and i can't do this without you i couldn't reach this point about you but now i must do this myself okay so this is a really hard question but i'm saying like okay so so let's connect everything together um you have to leave your mother at some point you have to leave someone you love at some point and we've reached a point where love can only take us so far and now the imagination must take over okay why allows for the imagination that created conflict with love this is a hard question okay but think about this okay when you love someone and when you imagine there has to be it's it's there's a contradiction okay and how and so why how can this concentration be resolved by switching

beatrice with bernard love is focused on one person and imaginations more diverse and switching with bernard because bernard is a poet so what is love what is love it's an action and it has to be

directed towards a person a real thing object when you love a child what are you doing you hug him

kiss him feed him good food yes okay okay so so sorry but like when you wrote the poem when you wrote the poem okay yep how do you feel about yourself while you you were writing the poem

i wasn't thinking of myself i was

exactly i was not thinking of myself you understand that's the trick guys i was not thinking of myself that's what love is i don't think myself i give myself i think of the other person and i become nothing i lose my ego right what's the imagination exactly you're expressing yourself okay that is the contradiction right so when donna is with beatrice he cannot think of himself has to think of beatrice he's giving himself because he's so much in love with beatrice and that's what allows him to climb to heaven that's what allows him to leave hell journey for purgatory and climb heaven but now that you must meet god now that you must fully exercise your imagination you must retain your ego you must express your ego you must manifest your ego and and why would this be a problem if you are a priest or you know you're a catholic

please at this time initially yes because people were taught to um lose your ego and be humble

like jesus was yes yes um because you're not allowed to marry and you're definitely not allowed

to express your love towards a soul mate we don't know that okay but yes what the church tells us is that you must be humble because your ego is a source of all evil in this world does it make sense and what donna is like no guys that's not how it works your ego is the source of your imagination and you can imagine good or you can imagine evil you imagine evil there's gonna be evil but if you imagine good there's me good okay you understand but if you want to truly meet god you truly understand the world you must use your imagination all right that's the logic here okay again he now must switch to bernard so the so the pro i mean like it doesn't really matter who bernard is but he does make the switch if he is truly to meet god yes so this is something i didn't get so earlier

you said that dante believes that uh people can only love other people they can't love concepts like god and when they love other people their love excites their imagination and their imagination brings them closer to god so why is dante right now replacing the person he loves with this crusty old guy he has no feelings towards like oh how is he trying to explain why he loves this crusty old guy he has no feelings towards like

his imagination to meet god here there's no love here okay so what love does is expand your capacity to use your imagination right but now you must use your imagination therefore you must focus on your ego to understand the only way to obtain love okay as a fuel for your imagination is by being selfless by giving yourself right to not think of yourself to think of others now you have all this right now you're going to use this fuel in order to project your imagination to understand god but to do that you have to embrace your ego okay you and what god is going to do is in the final canto he's going to show that he's better than god he's superior to god because god does not have imagination he does okay all right okay so we clear about this okay so again there's a scholar scholar explanation but then um there's my explanation

so do as you will okay all right let's keep on going

verse 91 so did i pray and she however far away she seemed smiled and she looked at looked at me then she turned back to the eternal fountain okay so this is almost like a graduation right where

you know like you're maybe the school valedictorian and you just have this entire speech saying you're like i love you mother and everything i i am i am because of you but what you're really saying is like i've grown up now i'm going to leave you mother okay sorry all right all right yeah yeah let's yeah okay yeah let's keep on reading um

verse 94 and he the holy elder said that you may consummate your journey perfectly for this both prayer and holy love had sent me to help you let your sight fly around this garden by gazing so that you may be more ready to ascend through god's own ray the queen of heaven for whom i am all flame with love will grant us every grace i am her faithful bernard the queen of heaven is

mary okay um why is this a paradox or a problem in the catholic church uh yes um mary is the virgin

mary and uh she is kind of she carried god's son okay he carried god's son and she's the virgin mary she's a virgin forever and right here bernard you're here writing love

poetry about her um yes because what we're supposed to believe in is the holy trinity not mary yes

exactly because the king of heaven is jesus not mary okay but jesus jesus isn't even here it's mary that's here this is a paradox why aren't wasn't bernard invoking jesus right no no no she

is mary the queen of heaven okay let's keep on going verse 102 to 103. just as one who from croatia perhaps has come to visit our veronica one whose old hunger is not sated who as long as it is shown repeats these words and thought oh my lord jesus christ true god was then your image like the image i see now such was i as i watched the living love of him who in this world and contemplation that that peace and he said son of grace you will not come to know this joyous state of your eyes only look down at the base but look upon the circles look at those that sit in a position more remote until you see upon her seat the queen to whom this realm is subject and devoted i lifted up my eyes and as at morning the eastern side of the horizon shows more splendor than the side

where the sun sets so as of climbing with my eyes from valley to summit i saw one part of the farthest rank of the rose more bright than all the rest and as on earth the point where we await the shaft that beefen had misguided glows brightest while to each side the light shades off so did the peaceful or flame appear brightest at its midpoint so did its flame on each side taper off at equal pace i saw around that midpoint festive angels more than a thousand years ago and as on earth we see the same name now the sun has set and it is now a great day the one of the stars and her milk and the flowers are still shining bright even in the world how lovely for her to guide me and to see the way her love lighted up the inside of me her love the light of the dead

as bright as the day of the sun the light of the world with such affection that he made mine gaze still more ardently.

Okay, let's keep on going, okay? Okay.

Canto 32. Though he had been absorbed in his delight, that contemplator freely undertook the task of teaching, and his holy words began, the wound that Mary closed and then anointed was the wound that Eve, so lovely at Mary's feet, had opened and had pierced.

Oh, wow, okay. Okay, let's, these three lines are really important, okay? Let's try to figure this out. Where, we met Adam, right? We met Adam in heaven. Where is Eve? Where is Eve right now? No, but I'm saying where is she right now? At Mary's feet, do you understand? Mary's the queen of heaven, and Eve is right beside her, so lovely at Mary's feet, next to the queen of heaven, okay? Right? Okay? The wound that Mary closed and then anointed was the wound that Eve had opened and had pierced. What does this mean? Yes?

The wound at Mary's feet, I think, is sin, because Eve...

Eve is responsible for the original sin, and...

So, basically, Mary used to have sin, but since Mary's purified, Mary closed the wound.

Yeah, this is really hard, okay? But, like, it's actually telling you exactly what's going on, okay? It's hard because of kind of dissonance. It goes against everything you've been taught, right? We know that Eve was responsible for the original sin, which was disobedience, which was pride, which was eating the fruit, okay? What did Mary do?

Jimmy? Mary gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus died for the original sin to be forgiven.

So, who's responsible for redeeming us? Mary. Mary. This is what she's saying here. No, I'm sorry. This is what Donnie's saying here, okay? It is Mary that redeemed us, not Jesus, yes? Why isn't it Jesus? Well, that's what we have to figure out, okay? Why is it Mary and not Jesus, yes?

I also wonder what Eve had opened and had pierced is some veil, and that is a continuum between God and human, that he pierced by partaking that fruit.

Yeah, she broke the love and the bond between God and us, right? And Mary closed it. Mary married, repaired the bond. So, she redeemed us. But how does it make any sense? Because it was Jesus that redeemed us, right? It was Jesus that repaired the bond. That's what we were taught. What Donnie's saying is, like, no, it was Mary, guys. It was Mary that did this.

So, I'm going to try a rudimentary understanding here. So, Mary gave birth to Jesus. So, basically, what Donnie is trying to say here is that Mary is the ultimate source of Jesus who saved us. That's the first part. And the second part is that Jesus is a man, and he cannot be a mother. And so, his love towards everyone, his love towards his believers is abstract. Like, it's not visceral. It's not visceral. Like, a mother's love towards her children. And what Donnie is trying to invoke here is Mary's love, the motherly love, the purest love that God has given us.

Okay. What is the greatest miracle in human history? What is the greatest miracle? What defies our explanation?

So much people believing in Christianity.

Well, I mean, if you're a Christian, you don't think that's a miracle. You think that's just natural, right? Because we're the truth. And so, yeah, of course, everyone should believe us. Could you repeat? Yes.

The incarnation. The virgin birth.

Okay. Guys, there are two miracles, right? First of all, Jesus sacrificed himself for us, okay? A God killed himself for us. Then you had a woman give birth to a God, which is a great miracle. I'm the second one, man. Right? Right? Like, how is it possible for, like, a mortal woman to give birth to a God? Right? How is it possible, then? What enabled Eve to give birth? Yes?

So for Mary's case, maybe it was her faith, her willingness to be a vessel for God that has showed her from the initial sin.

Exactly. Do you understand? Eve was proud, and she disobeyed. She lacked faith in God. Mary had complete faith in God. And that's what redeemed us. The complete and utter faith in God is what redeemed us. Not the sacrifice of Jesus, but the complete and utter faith of Mary. That's what he's saying here. Okay? Which means what? Which means that we redeemed ourselves. We have the power to redeem ourselves. We never needed Jesus. We just have to believe in Jesus, and Jesus would come to redeem us. But first, you have to believe we could be redeemed. Then we could be redeemed. Okay? So you see what's happening, where before, you were taught to be passive, to be humble, to accept the will of God. And now you're being taught, no, you have to be active. You have to use your imagination. You have to use your faith if you are to better the world.

And the example is Mary. Mary. That's why she's the queen of heaven. Because she was the most virtuous of all of us. And if she were not that virtuous, she could not have possibly given birth to Jesus. Okay? This is pretty mind -blowing, right? I mean, like, what do you think?

I think later the Catholic reforms and everything to do bringing Mary to a higher point like Dante has, that's why we see a lot of paintings where Mary's holding baby Jesus, and Mary's more exalted in a way. And Jesus, in a lot of these religious paintings, is because of the fact that the Catholic Church also sort of agree, well, later on, with this idea that she's the new Eve. Yeah. She's quite elevated. Exactly. Jesus is the new Adam.

Exactly. So rather than just say, this is all heresy. Let's just burn all this, right? It's like, no, he's right, okay? That's a power of poetry, right? That's a power of art. Because it shocks you into a new tool that you must, you know, accept. It may take time, but it will work, right? So this is why starting tomorrow, we will learn, like, the real battle is actually between the Catholic Church and Dante. It's actually between Virgil and Dante, okay? But first, we want to learn about the cosmology of Dante, okay? Starting tomorrow, we will go into the final war between Virgil and Dante. And what we'll show you is that this war continues even to today, okay? All right, let's keep on going.

Verse six. Verse seven. Below her in the seats of the third rank, Rachel and Beatrice, as you see sit, Sarah, Rebecca, Judith, and the one who was the great -grandmother of the singer, who, as he sorrowed for his sinfulness, cried, miserere me. These you can see from rank to rank, as I, in moving through the rows from petal unto petal, give to each her name.

Okay, all right, so again, Mary is the queen, Eve is beside her, and then as we move outwards, obviously the people closest to her are the people who are the most virtuous, right? Rachel and Beatrice, Sarah, Rebecca, Judith. If you were like a practicing Christian, you're kind of shocked by this. Why are you shocked by this? I'm talking about the year 1300, okay? Why would you be shocked by this, yes? Because they're all women? First of all, they're all women. Okay. They're all women. And also, there are many Jews, man, right? These are Jews. Rachel, Sarah, Rebecca. I actually don't know who Judith is. And then you have Ruth, the great -grandmother of King David, right? Why do you have these people and not like David, Moses, Abraham, right? The patriarch. Instead, you have the matriarchs, okay? So again, this reveals the revolutionary nature of Dante. Okay, let's keep on going.

Verse 13. From rank to rank as I, in moving through the rows, from petal to petal, give to each her name. And from the seventh rank, just as they did within the rank above, the Hebrew women follow, ranging downward, dividing all the tresses of the rows. There the wall by which the sacred stairs divide, depending on the view of Christ with which their faith aligned, upon one side there where the rows is ripe, with all the rows, its petals are those whose faith was in the Christ to come and on the other side that semicircle whose space is broken up by vacant places sit those whose sight was set upon the Christ who had already come and just as on this side to serve as such a great partition there's a throne in glory of the lady of heaven and the seats that range below it so opposite the seat of the great John who

always saintly suffered both the desert and martyrdom and then two years of hell serves to divide below him sit assigned to this partition Francis Benedict and Augustine and others rank on rank down to the center of the rose now see how deep is God's foresight both aspects of the faith shall fill this garden equally okay so this is really the first time that we see

Augustine reference okay and he's clearly in heaven and we talk about Austin a lot in this class because Augustine is really is really the major theologian of the Catholic church at this time in history um what's the paradox here there's a paradox in divine comedy how many times is Augustine quilted in the divine comedy never right this is the major theologian of the Catholic church his book city of God and confessions are read by everyone uh within the hierarchy of the Catholic church you're forced to read them actually if you are to join the Catholic church and don't it never actually quotes him okay and this is actually the first time that we see Augustine so again this is a very subtle uh tongue -in -cheek um very paradoxical um place to

put Augustine okay let's let's run away verse 40 and know that there below the traverse transverse row that cuts across the two divisions it's souls who are there for merits not their own but with certain conditions others merits for all of these are souls who left their bodies before they had the power of true choice this remove shucks where does raven lie where does raven lie so HPational family almost� be exact. And thus these souls who have precociously reached the true life do not among themselves find places high or low without some cause. The king through whom this kingdom finds content in so much love and so much joyousness that no desire would dare to ask for more. Creating every mind in his glad sight bestows his grace diversely at his pleasure and here the fact alone must be enough. And this is clearly and expressly noted for you in holy scripture and those twins who in their mother's womb were moved to anger.

Thus it is just for the celestial light to grace their heads with a becoming crown according to the color of their hair. Without then any merit in their works these infants are assigned to different ranks. Proclivity at birth the only difference. In early centuries the king of the trees their parents faith alone and their own innocence suffice for the salvation of the children. When those early times had reached completion then each male child had to find through circumcision the power needed by his innocent member. But then the age of grace arrived and without perfect baptism in Christ such innocence was kept below in limbo. Look now upon the face that is most like the face of Christ for only through its brightness can you prepare your vision.

Okay so what Bernard is doing is listing the ranks of the most beloved right starting from Mary and keep on going okay. So at this time in history there's a major debate in the Catholic church about children right. If you're an infant and you die before you are baptized what happens to you? Yes.

You ascend into heaven because you didn't do anything wrong? So you are technically perfect?

Um that that that might be logical but that's not what what they thought yes. Anyone else?

Um because you weren't baptized yet and you don't and you still have the original sin on you you kind of burn in hell.

Yeah you go to purgatory? Yeah you're in limbo okay you don't understand limbo because it's more dilemma for the church right because um you didn't become a Christian so you can't go to heaven but you did nothing wrong you were free of sin so it's wrong to put you in hell. So they just put you okay let's make up a new place called limbo okay or purgatory and we'll put you there okay because like we don't know what else to do with you right. And what is and so in this heaven uh what does Bernard say about this this is actually a huge issue right in the Catholic church okay. Like like. Why? creates such a paradox right so what does bernard say yes and salvation decides where they go well that makes no sense at all right right who like why should it matter what your parents do that's

even more unjust what does bernard say the age of grace has arrived so you guys can now go to heaven now or actually no yeah so before you can go to heaven i mean like before you couldn't go to heaven

now you can well the age of grace is the coming of christianity and jesus right okay let's let's read it again okay because this is very perplexing starting from 19 all right yep oh no sorry um 40

40 okay verse 40 and know that there below the transverse row that cuts across the two divisions sit souls who are there for merits not their own but with certain conditions others merits for all of these are souls who left their bodies before

they had the power of true choice okay so these are children okay and these children these babies are actually in the roles as well okay and this goes against catholic doctrine because you have to first be baptized in order to ascend to heaven okay so these are babies um and so

they are in heaven okay keep on going verse 46 indeed you may perceive this by yourself their faces childlike voices are enough if you look well at them and hear them sing but now you doubt and doubting do not speak yet i shall lose that not i can release you from the bonds of subtle reasoning within the ample breadth of this domain no point can find its place by chance just as there's no place for sorrow thirst or hunger whatever you may see has been ordained by everlasting law so that the fit of ring and finger here must be exact and thus these souls who have precociously reached the true life do not amongst themselves find places high or low without some cause okay all right so so what what i'm

saying is that everything happens for a reason okay there is perfect justice in the world especially up in heaven so these babies are here for a reason and they are here for a reason and for a cause okay uh keep on going verse 61 the king through whom this kingdom finds content

in so much love and so much joyousness that no desire would dare to ask for more creating every mind in his glad sight bestows his grace diversely at his pleasure and here the fact alone must be enough and this is clearly and expressly noted for you in holy scripture and those twins who in their mother's womb were moved to anger uh who are those twins in an able right

yeah can you explain uh because the twins were conceived and they were fighting inside the womb and one is hairy and one is smooth beautiful and they fought ever since they were in the tomb

till the very end of their lives okay so it's jacob and estelle yes okay let's keep on going

verse 72 thus it is just for the celestial light to graze their heads with the becoming crown according to the color of their hair without then any merit in their works these infants are assigned to different ranks proclivity at birth the only difference in early centuries their parents faith alone and their own innocence sufficed for the salvation of the children when those early times had reached completion then each male child had to find through circumcision the power of the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit needed by his innocent member but then the age of grace arrived and without perfect perfect baptism in Christ such innocence was kept below in limbo look now upon the face that is most like the face of Christ for only through its brightness can you prepare your vision to see him right so how does

he resolve this contradiction paradox first I have a question why does Cain get to be in heaven

I'd be

because I remember it's jacob and estelle anyone yes so I guess he's saying that even in your womb in the womb you have a soul and your soul is different like this uh proclivity at birth is the only difference so like if you're inclined to be good or evil it's already decided when you are

at point zero yeah okay yeah so what do you make of this explanation right this guy's even more problems right what he's saying is that jacob and esso well they were always going to be enemies and that was that was determined at the point of birth right so again this is what makes divine comedy so revelatory because paradox leads to more paradoxes okay we resolve one paradox which creates even more paradoxes was like uh wait a minute here what's going on the merit was always was determined at before verb okay so god can know where you belong the moment you were born yes

but I thought god gave us free will so god can't really predict any exactly okay so this is really

problematic okay this is a paradox now god give us free will we can be anything we want we can do whatever we want but at our birth we have our own

inclinations so what's going on here yes time doesn't really exist so even though as humans right we can't really predict the future but we got but because like god is all -knowing he kind of like sees everything happening but it's like different for him because there's no concept of

time right but but again this is a problem because what you're saying is that well god knows what would happen if you didn't die at birth he would know what kind of person you became but in that case there's no free will then it's all predetermined right there's a huge problem

I don't think you we should think of this as being like predetermined I think we should just think of it as like god can god can know what whatever we're doing like throughout the expanse of time so he doesn't like make he doesn't like force you into a certain ending it just happens and he knows from wherever he is he knows it then it's not free will did you understand he knows but he doesn't intervene yeah so why does that like conflict with free will I'm I guess I'm confused here so why does he knowing everything that has happened conflict with free will like you can still enact your people okay yeah okay so I understand but

like what we will okay I okay that does make sense right he knows everything that has that will happen right because he is god so yes or is it also an inversion of

Christianity because could it be that the proclivity of birth we have is actually positive not negative so we will all like all children who die at birth would go to heaven yeah okay that

makes a lot more sense right that makes a lot more sense I I don't see how we can be born evil right but if but if that's the case that creates even more problems because then like every child goes to heaven right and then like you just run out of space eventually yes but how do you run out of space if heaven is infinite um well I mean in order for free will to happen okay you have to have heaven and hell right because I mean like just think about this more dilemma where now you're incentivized to kill your

kid right just kill them at birth then you are be ensure them they go to heaven

yeah right um because they haven't because they have free will they haven't decided that they believe in god yet so the children um the children don't have faith yet because when they are born they don't believe in god yet yeah they have not made their choice that's correct yes so they go to

purgatory and they're in limbo that's right that is how what the catholic church teaches you right I'm just saying like but we have a situation where there's a lot of people who are going to be tormenting their children there are children babies who are among the blessed who are among the elect and God is like wait a minute here how did he get there right and what bernard's saying is like God knows everything God is perfect God knows exactly where you belong he also said that your merit is determined at birth okay so without knowing how you live your life god can determine what your propensity is

very confusing right yes the babies are in heaven because as you said like if you're a parent the happiest moment of your life is when your child is born so when that child was born they gave joy and love to their parents so they can go

to heaven okay but like that creates even more problems because first of all like which parent is not happy to see their child second of all if that's the criteria then it's a parent to determine who which child goes to heaven right it could be like you know the mother's having a bad day she's really unhappy right well then now your child's screwed for all of eternity that kind of sucks okay so what I want to do is this okay it's amazing to think about where we're like 10 -0 -32 we are in heaven and all that's happened is we're even more confused and confused and confused and confused and confused and confused and confused and confused and confused okay so during lunch I want you guys to talk about yourself do research and figure out this problem for me okay when I come back give me the answer all right when we come back

at 1 o 'clock give me the answer as to how to resolve this paradox okay I'll see you guys at the lunch okay okay oh Carol could you tell him not to raise this I'll need this for this afternoon okay

okay okay begin

okay so this is the hardest theological problem in the universe it is almost impossible to solve okay and what we're going to do is just say that what are we And why this is put, why this paradox or conundrum is put before we meet God is the only way to solve this problem is through love and imagination, okay? So there's almost like a warm -up before our meeting with God, which is going to really test our love and imagination. So let's try to figure out what's going on, okay? So let's go back and figure out, first of all, who is with Mary, okay? So there's a hierarchy, right? So Mary is at the top, Eve is with her, and then below her are Rachel's and Beatrice, okay? Then below them are Sarah, Rebecca, and Judah. Who is Rachel? Tell me the story of Rachel.

Yes? One of the most beautiful wives of Isaac or Jacob. Jacob.

Okay, all right, okay. No, no, no, that's Sarah. Okay, okay. So we need to figure out, first of all, why are they where they are? They are the closest to God, so why are they where they are? Yes?

Because they didn't have free will?

No.

They didn't have the option to choose, so therefore they did not have free will.

Is it because they are ancestors to Mary?

No. Well, I mean, okay, all right. Okay, so let me tell you the story of Rachel, okay? So Jacob is exiled from his homeland. He goes and finds shelter and refuge. With his uncle, Lachan. And they make a deal where Jacob works for Lachan for seven years, and then Lachan will give him Rachel. Seven years later, they get married, and on the wedding night, they have sex. When Jacob wakes up, he finds the woman he's had sex with is not Rachel, but Leah, who is Rachel's older sister. Jacob says to Lachan, Lachan, you've cheated me. And Lachan says, it's not our custom to first marry the younger sister before the elder sister, so we are forced to give you Leah. But if you work for me for seven more years, I will give you Rachel. At this point, if you're Rachel, what are you going to do? I'd be pissed, right? I'd be like, screw you all.

I'm going to go find someone else, okay? What does Rachel do instead? She sticks around, okay? And that demonstrates her love and devotion. It is an example of the beauty and power of love. That's why where she is, she is where she is, okay? Because of her self -dedication to love, because of her faith in God, because of her love for Jacob. Because everyone else would be like, screw this, I'm going somewhere else, okay? Because I've been cheated. But because of her love for Jacob, because of her faith in God, she stuck around and endured being married to Jacob. While also Leah being married to Jacob, okay? So that's an example of selfless love. What is Beatrice doing in heaven? What does she do to warrant her next to God? We know Rachel, yeah, good example. And Sarah, who is the wife of Abraham, she prayed and prayed for 80 years before she was actually granted an only son, Isaac, okay?

So yeah, these are examples. But what's Beatrice? What's Beatrice doing here? What is Beatrice's accomplishment? Yes?

So Beatrice kind of, she was dead already, so Beatrice kind of gave up temporarily her place in heaven to do the great labor of guiding Dante from hell to heaven.

Yeah, but I mean, how did she get where she is in the first place? She died at childbirth. She died giving birth. But that's not an accomplishment, right? Because like think about the millions of mothers who have given childbirth. There's like literally... Billions of them, okay? But she died. Yes? She inspired Dante. Yeah, or yes?

She made a devotion or covenant with God. At least she had the will to be devoted to God.

Okay, so there's only one reason why she is where she is, yes?

Could it be arrogance from Dante because he puts Mary at the top of heaven and that's because there would be no Jesus without Mary and he thinks, obviously, he's divinely inspired, but there would be no Dante without Beatrice.

Exactly. Yeah, thank you very much. Okay, yes. Dante put her there. You understand? So think about this, okay? We have Rachel who is the perfect example of love and devotion. We have Beatrice who is there because Dante put her there, okay? So now we have to use our love and imagination and figure out how these infants got to... this rose so that they're beside God, yes?

Dante put them there.

Excuse me?

Dante puts them there.

Not Dante. Dante doesn't even know them. He doesn't even name them, right? Who put them there?

Maybe that is Dante's own interpretation. Like, they deserve to be there.

Okay, all right. So again, what's hard about Dante is that you are forced to use your love and imagination, but once you do, the universe opens itself to you and it reveals itself to you, okay? You're a parent, okay? Let's all imagine we are parents, right? And we have our first child, and for the reason, at one or two years old, the child dies. Maybe at six months, who knows, okay? Now, at this point in our lives, we can make a choice, right? Most of us will choose to despair. Some of us may choose to have another one. But then there are certain individuals who... Because of their faith, hope, and love, they say to themselves, I'm going to dedicate the rest of my life to celebrating the legacy of my child. I'm going to put all the love that I had for my child and devote it to others, devote it to the world, to celebrate my child.

Obviously, this person deserves to be next to God, right? But what's the paradox? What's the problem with that? Huh? Yes? Why is the child there instead of the mother? But yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying the parent did all the work. So why is the child there and not the parent who did all the work?

Because the kid inspires their parent. And so is the death of the child enables them to share the love with the world?

Sure. But I mean, like, so? Right? It's the parent who did all the work. It's Dante who wrote all the poetry, yes?

In the same way Beatrice inspired Dante, death of a child can inspire his parents.

I know, but it's a parent who did all the work, right? So why is the child there, not the parent, right? Why is Beatrice in heaven and not Dante?

Because he decided that Beatrice would be in heaven.

Right.

So the child is in heaven because their mother decided that they would be in heaven.

Exactly. You understand, okay? Like, if you're God, right, and, like, you touch... And the mother says, wow, the life you've led was so exemplary. I have to put you beside me because I am so bedazzled by your example because the world is shining so much brighter because of your sacrifice, okay? But the mother's like, don't put me next to you. Put my child next to you, right? You understand? So that's why the children are in heaven. Excuse me? Yeah, the parents put them there, right? And if you think about it logically, this resolves a lot of the paradoxes, Because, again, if you are a parent and your child dies, you're going to have a hard time explaining to yourself why the child died, okay? Or, like, why is my child not in heaven? Okay? So this is the hardest problem for theologians to solve. I don't think anyone has solved this satisfactorily, okay?

But Dante provides a solution. Does it make sense to you guys? Do you understand how this logic works? By the same token, we can also imagine certain examples where a child's death warrants him or her in heaven immediately, okay? So let's think of, like, what, 13 or 12? The guy fights Goliath, right? If he lost to Goliath, where should he be? He should be next to God, right? In fact, if he were to die, he'd be more worthy of God than if he defeated Goliath. Does that make sense? Excuse me?

So why would he be more worthy to God than if he defeated Goliath?

Yeah?

He had complete faith in God, even without having the results he had expected.

Exactly, right? So why they're put in heaven is not necessarily because of their actions alone. It's because of their... It's because of their actions on the people around them. Does that make sense?

So by that logic, then he is no more worthy if he died than he was if he actually defeated Goliath. Because if he actually defeated Goliath, then the net effect upon the people next to him is better.

Okay. Again, use your imagination. My son David went to fight Goliath, okay? And before, I was afraid of these Philistines. My son goes and fights Goliath. And he dies. What are the rest of the Israelites going to do? They will avenge David and fight back. They'll fight to the death. If a child has the courage to fight a giant, then I would be ashamed to not take up arms and avenge him. I couldn't live myself, right? So just use your imagination and use your sense of love. If you were a parent and you saw your son make this ultimate sacrifice, you would be compelled. You could be the biggest coward in the world, right? Right? You could be afraid to die. You could have absolutely no faith. But to see your son die against a giant, he had absolutely no chance anyway. But for him to take up arms and to fight with faith, that compels you into action.

Do you understand? And therefore, David, even though he's an Israelite and not a Christian, and even though he didn't really accomplish that much, he just died in battle, like, you know, he would have been right next to God. Yes?

My imagination is telling me that the death of a child would be incredible. It would be incredibly disheartening. And if he defeated Goliath, then a child defeating a giant would be a sign of the glory and the power of God. And I think that would be more inspirational.

Okay, then your imagination doesn't come from a place of love.

Okay.

All right? Okay. Does it make sense to you guys? All right? We can also imagine, let's just say that Mary, before she gives birth to Jesus, she has a child and the child dies. Right? Where would the child go? Exactly, right? Because if you, Mary, have all the virtue to give birth to Jesus, then your child must be virtuous as well. Does it make sense? Okay? So, this is a way to resolve the paradox. And again, what Dante is doing is, he's presenting to you the hardest theological problem in order to excite your, love and imagination. And because only with that can you actually meet God. All right? So, does it make sense, guys? Any questions? Yes?

I'm quite confused about why, if the mother is virtuous, then the son is also virtuous, automatically. Why? Like, born with?

Okay. Yeah.

I'll try. He did not say that. What he said was, for the unborn child, the mother is the one whose belief has put the baby into heaven. You know, just a personal sharing. Before having three beautiful children on earth, I have two children in heaven. And it's because I believe that they're in heaven. I haven't had them, that they're in heaven. But it's not because I'm virtuous. Mm -hmm. It's because I believe they're in heaven. And that propelled them to heaven.

And, I mean, this is a beautiful story. So, thanks for sharing such a personal detail. But if you're a parent, you understand. But if you're not a parent, then it's hard to understand. You can't actually reason this out, okay? That's why, you know, Divine Comedy, it has to be read over a lifetime. And it has to be read from a place of love. And it's only after you experience love for yourself could you truly appreciate Divine Comedy. Right? So, this is not to criticize you. This doesn't say that this is a lifelong journey. And, again, this is the hardest question in theology. What happens to infants who are not baptized? Are they automatically condemned to hell and limbo? And what Donnett says is that you have to just trust in the infinite justice and wisdom of God. Okay? There are going to be these cases that are impossible, for us, to reason out. But God knows the answer.

God knows that your sacrifice is meant to put the infinite in heaven and not yourself in heaven. And so, God is going to honor your request. You know, it was you who did all the virtue in the world. Okay?

So, in a case where the child is relatively young, but the parent, and the child dies, and for whatever reason, someone else thinks that child should not be, in heaven, and the parent thinks the child should be in heaven. In that case, what happens?

Oh, my God. This is not, okay. All right. Can someone answer this question?

You just have to believe that God is the ultimate judge. And God will, you know, consider every cases, every possible scenario, every hidden thoughts of that child's heart. And then.

Okay, look, God is love. Okay? So, when you truly love, God responds to you. When you hate, God turns away from you. Does that make sense? If you're like, you know, I want this child to burn in hell, why would God honor your request? That makes no sense.

I'm not saying they should burn in hell. I just say someone believes that they shouldn't be in heaven.

Then where should the child be?

Purgatory.

Right. That's, well, limbo is in hell. Okay? All right. Okay. And again, like, it's not everyone who gets to heaven. It's those people, those individuals, whose stories are so exemplary that they inspire the world to greater love. Okay? Does that make sense? All right. So, now we are moving towards, well, this is the very last canto, okay? Canto 33. And this is the greatest canto of the entire Divine Comedy. I don't know why people just read Inferno, actually. If you really want to understand Dante, you really need to read the last canto. Okay. So, let's read it. Here we go. Did we not finish? Oh, I apologize. Yeah, let's just finish 32, okay? Let's make sure we, okay? But we understand the infant problem, right? Okay.

Verse 88. I saw such joy rain down upon her, joy carried by holy intellects created to fly at such a height, that all which I had seen before did not transfix me with amazement so intense, nor show to me a semblance that was so akin to God. And the angelic love, who had descended earlier now spread his wings before her, singing Ave Maria, Grazia plena. On every side, the blessed court replied, singing responses to his godly song, so that each spirit there grew more serene. O Holy Father, who for me endure your being here below, leaving the sweet place where eternal lot assigns your seat. Who is that angel who with such delight looks into our queen's eyes, he who is so enraptured that he seems to be aflame. So once again, I called upon the teaching of him who drew from Mary beauty, as the morning star draws beauty from the sun. And he

to me, all of the gallantry and confidence that there can be an angel or blessed soul are found in him. And we would have it so, for it was he who carried the palm below to Mary when God's son wanted to bear our flesh as his own burden. But follow with your eyes, even as I proceed to speak and note the great patricians of this, most just and merciful empire. Those two who there above us seated, most happy to be so near the empress may be likened to the two roots of this rose. The one who on her left sits closest is the father whose presumptuous tasting caused humankind to taste such bitterness. And on the right, you see that ancient father of holy church and to whose care the keys of this fair flower were consigned by Christ. And he who saw before he died, all of the troubled era of the lovely bride, whom lands the nails had one sits at his side.

And at the side of Adam sits that guide under whose rule the people, thankless, fickle, and stubborn, left on manna facing Peter. Anna is seated so content to see her daughter that as Anna sings hosannas, she does not move her eyes.

Okay, so we have Adam and Peter and Anna, okay. Anna is Mary's mother. Mary is so virtuous that even her mother is a, is able to obtain a seat next to God. Keep on going.

Line 135. And opposite the greatest father of a family, Lucia sits. She who urged on your lady when you bent your brows downward to your ruin.

We don't have time to discuss this, but Lucia would be the inverse of Picarda, okay. Whereas Picarda lacks will, Lucia is the total representative of will, okay. Saint Lucy of the Catholic Church, who basically, um, would rather die than to abandon her faith, okay. Um, keep on going.

Verse 139. But time which brings you sleep takes flight. And now we shall stop here, even as a good tailor who cuts the garment as his cloth allows, and turn our vision to the primal love that gazing at him you may penetrate, as far as that can be his radiance. But lest you now fall back when even as you move your way, your wings, you think that you advance, imploring grace. Through prayer, you must beseech grace from that one who has the power to help you. And do you follow me with your affection? So may my words and your heart share one way. And he began this holy supplication.

Okay, so again, Dante is using Bernard as a model, as a model, right. So Bernard is first going to worship Mary, to humble himself before Mary, and this will give him the power to worship Mary. To humble, for Dante to humble, to humble himself before God, okay. This is the very last canto, okay. We have come to the end, okay. We are, we have come to God himself. All right, here we go.

Canto 33. Virgin mother, daughter of your son, more humble and sublime than any creature, fixed gold decreed from all eternity. You're the one who gave to human nature so much nobility that its creator did not disdain his being made its creature.

Okay. So again. It's going to emphasize that Mary is more noble because she was able to give birth to Jesus. She was able to be the portal for God to manifest himself in this world, which has never been done before, okay. Keep on going.

Verse 7. That love whose warmth allowed this flower to bloom within the everlasting peace was love rekindled in your womb for us above. You're the noonday torch of charity. And there below on earth among the mortals, you are a living spring of hope. Lady, you're so high, you can so intercede that he who would have grace but does not seek your aid may long to fly but has no wings. Your loving kindness does not only answer the one who asks, but it is often ready to answer freely long before the asking. And you compassion is, and you is pity, and you is generosity, and you is every goodness found in any creature. This man who from the deepest hollow in the universe up to this height has seen the lives of spirits one by one, now pleads with you through grace to grant him so much virtue that he may lift his vision higher still, may lift it toward the ultimate salvation.

And I, who never burned for my own vision more than I burned for his, do offer you all of my prayers and pray that they may not fall short, that with your prayers, you may disperse all of the clouds of his mortality so that, at the highest, joy be his to see. This too, O Queen, who can do what you would, I ask of you, that after such a vision, his sentiments preserve their perseverance. May your protection curb his mortal passions. See Beatrice, how many saints with her. They join my prayers. They clasp their hands to you.

Okay. So again, this is such a revolutionary passage. Okay. So Bernard is praying to Mary and says, Mary, please lend, don't take some of your virtue so that he may see God. And first of all, what does it mean to say, he may lift his vision higher still, may lift it toward the ultimate salvation? How can Dante see God?

By having faith.

Not faith. Feel. You can't feel it. What does higher vision mean? Imagination, okay? So this is. This is really interesting that he's saying that Dante, when he stares at God, you can't look at it with your eyes. You have to look at it with your imagination. Okay. Question. What does Bernard mean by, he says, I never burned my own vision more than I burned for his. What does he mean by this? I never burned my own vision more than I burned for his.

He hopes that Dante sees God more than he hopes he will see God.

Okay.

Basically, he loves Dante.

Okay. That's a good try, but that doesn't really make any sense, right? Because Bernard is with God every single day, all the time, for all eternity. So how can he, so how can Dante know God more than Bernard? Well, I never burned for my own vision more than I burned for his. What does this mean?

Does he realize that Dante is going to go back to earth and be able to take the word of God back with him?

Yeah, that's what Dante is here for. But it's not the word, right? It's his vision. Yeah.

So earlier you told us that in heaven, it's just constant joy of all kinds on the whiteboard. And I'm just reminded of the old and tired argument. If everything is joy, then how do you tell joy from sadness? So maybe Dante is able to perceive God's joy more because he has experienced sorrow in the human realm for so long, while Bernard has been here for a while, I guess.

Yeah, but I understand that. But I'm like, would Dante know God better than Bernard? Yes? He's been able to imagine more. Yeah. So what is going on here is that what Bernard is saying is like, the only way to see God is with the imagination. Guess what? We angels, we souls, we don't have an imagination. Why not? You see what I mean? No, no, no, no. There's actually a very good reason why they lack an imagination. They don't have a body, okay? Okay? This is like Dante explained to us. You need a body to have emotions. And emotions is what gives you memory, which allows for the imagination, okay? So that's what Bernard is saying. He's saying like, yes, we've been with God for all eternity, but we don't really know God. Only Dante with his imagination can truly understand God. Okay, that's literally what he's saying, all right? Let's keep on going.

Verse 40. The eyes that are revered and loved by God now fixed upon the supplicant showed us how welcome such devotions are to her. Then her eyes turned to the eternal light there. Do not think that any creature's eye can find its way as clearly as her sight. And I who now was nearing him who is the end of all desires as I ought lifted my longing to its ardent limit. Bernard was signaling. He smiled to me to turn my eyes on high, but I already was doing what he wanted me to do. Because my sight becoming pure was able to penetrate the ray of light more deeply, that light sublime which in itself is true. From that point on, what I could see was greater than speech can show. At such a sight, it fails, and memory fails when faced with such excess.

Okay, so what Dante is doing is he's staring at God, and it reeks. It really, really sucks, okay? It's burning his eyes so much that it's destroying it. That's almost like causing his brain to be on fire. And he's losing control, and it's so powerful, this sight, that he's also losing his memory, okay? He's basically lost his memory. It's so traumatic that he can't process what he's seeing, okay? Keep on going.

Verse 58. Verse 58. Within a dream, and later the passion that had been imprinted stays, but nothing of the rest returns to mind. Such am I, for my vision almost fades completely, yet it still distills within my heart the sweetness that was born of it.

Okay, so he can't see anything. He can't remember anything. What is left? The emotion of it, right? Okay? That's the only thing that's left. The sweetness of it. The emotion of it. And from this, he has to construct, before his imagination, the divine harmony, okay? Keep on going.

Line 64. So is the snow beneath the sun unsealed, and so on the light leaves beneath the wind, the oracles of Sibyl wrote were lost. Oh, highest light, you raise so far above the minds of mortals to my memory, give back something of your epiphany, and make my tongue so powerful that I may leave to people of the future one gleam of the glory that is yours. For by returning somewhat to my memory, and encountering the light, and echoing a while within these lines, your victory will be more understood.

Where is Dante now? Where is he? What? Yeah, he's home, okay? This is like 20 years afterwards, okay? So he met God in the year 1300 during the Easter weekend. Now, 20 years later, he is now trying to remember what he saw through his imagination, okay? He's trying to reimagine what he saw. Did you have a question? Okay, all right. Keep on going.

Verse 76. The living ray that I endured was so acute that I believe I should have gone astray had my eyes turned away from it. I can recall that I, because of this, was bolder in sustaining it until my vision reached the infinite goodness. Oh, grace abounding through which I presumed to set my eyes on the eternal light so long that I spent all my sight on it. In its profundity I saw, in -gathered and bound by love into one single volume, what in the universe seemed separate, scattered, substances, accidents, and dispositions as if conjoined, in such a way that what I tell is only rudimentary.

Okay, so what he's able to reimagine is the totality of the universe, okay? Everything is connected together. All right, keep on going.

Verse 91. I think I saw the universal shape which that knot takes, for speaking this I feel a joy that is more ample, that one moment brings more forgetfulness to me than 25 centuries have brought to the endeavor that startled Neptune with the Argos shadow. So was my mind completely wrapped, intent, steadfast, and motionless, gazing, and it grew even more enkindled as it watched. Whoever sees that light is soon made such that it would be impossible for him to set that light aside for other sight, because the good, the object of the will, is fully gathered in that light. Outside that light, what there is perfect is defective. What little I recall is to be told from this point on in words more weak than those of one whose infant tongue still bathes at the breast. And not because more than one simple semblance was in the living light at which I gaze, for it is always what it was before.

But through my sight, which as I gazed grew stronger, that sole appearance, even as I altered, seemed to be changing.

From that moment onward I began to see theestial form of what I had been, the spirit of the Unborn, the spirit of the Unborn. The unused soul. And in that moment, I was struck by the divine radiance I was struck by the divine radiance of the unkown being. I was struck by the divine radiance of the unkown being.

In that moment, I was entranced by that divine radiance.

I was turned away from the divine radiance, and I was transformed. I was turned away. what he saw and he searched through the universe he's used his imagination and now he comes to the

fundamental understanding of what god really is okay line 114 in the deep and bright essence of that exalted light three circles appeared to me they had three different colors but all of them were of the same dimension one circle seemed reflected by the second as rainbow is by rainbow and the third seemed fire breathed equally by those two circles okay so what is god exactly

there you go palm saw holy trinity we can now go home okay what the church has taught us for the past 2 000 years is true it is in fact the holy trinity and that's what you're taught usually okay but you keep on reading and it's a problem okay keep on going first one two one how incomplete

a speech how weak when said against my thought and this to what i saw is such to call it little is too too much eternal light you only dwell within yourself and only you know you self -knowing self -known you love and smile upon yourself that circle which begotten so appeared in you was light reflected when my eyes had washed it with attention for some time within itself and colored like itself to me seemed painted with our effigy so that my sight was set on it completely okay what's the problem

with with this there's a problem here it's the holy trinity but it's not the holy trinity why what's inside the circle what's the effigy mean it's us yeah okay there's three circles that's a holy trinity and um we're inside each circle yeah huh oh well huh all right let's keep on going

verse 133 as the geometer intently seeks to square the circle but he cannot reach through thought on thought the principle he needs so i searched that strange sight i wish to see the way in which our human effigy suited the circle and found place

in it so he's trying to figure out why we're in the circle why are we in god okay keep on going

verse 139 and my own wings were far too weak for that but then my mind was struck by light that flashed and with this light received what it had asked failed my high fantasy but my desire and will were moved already like a wheel revolving uniformly by the love that moves the sun and the other stars and so he figures it out and we point

the more he figures it out he is completely connected to the universe he becomes one with god okay so and this is how divine comedy ends okay um and so the question for us is what did he see okay and again to solve this mystery you saw this paradox you have to use your love and imagination okay so all right let's try to figure it out all right first thing i want to do is look at happiness we are in heaven we are beside with god which is the purest happiness is eternal bliss the greatest joy okay and we have examples of joy and happiness on this board okay so let's just see these things are in heaven to make to to make sure we understand what heaven is selfless sacrifice is that in heaven how do you sacrifice yourself in heaven uh well sure but what about sacrifice yeah so sacrifice is not here

you can't sacrifice yourself in heaven right because there's another sacrifice for it's already perfection Novelty, surprise, shock, yes or no? Definitely no, because it's perfection, right? It's eternal. You already know what's there. Nope. Relieve and release. No, because you need tension for that, right? You need evil, you need hatred, you need conflict, you need agony for there to be relief and release. Nope. Wishful fulfillment, is it there? No, because, yeah, exactly, right? There's nothing to fulfill. Returning home. Well, maybe, I mean, you can say it's home, okay? Flow, yeah, probably. Self -creation, self -discovery, sharing knowledge, is that there? No, but it doesn't even know anything, okay? It's not there. Connection, community, probably. Recognition, validation, probably. Beauty, okay, all right? So, half the things on the list are there, the other half are not, all right? So, where's the only thing where we can find the rest? Here, right? Okay, on earth. So, some of

the happiness is on heaven, some is on earth, okay, but the problem is, the problem is you're in heaven and you're experiencing the perfect joy, the perfect happiness. What I already said, there's lots of happiness that are not in heaven, so how does heaven compensate? How does heaven resolve this problem?

Some people just don't have such kind of desire, so no need for that.

No, no, no, no, we just said heaven is the greatest bliss. It is perfection, it's the greatest joy. Every single moment is pure bliss. We already said a lot of the bliss can't be found in heaven, so how does heaven resolve this paradox? Anyone? Exactly, okay, earth and heaven have to be combined, okay? They have to be combined together, do you understand? God and man have to be combined together in order to create perfect happiness. Otherwise, it can't be done, right, okay? So, we have to be inside God, okay? And what allows us to be inside God?

Faith, hope, and love.

Okay, well, let's just use imagination, okay? Imagination, okay? So, it's imagination that allows us to be inside God, do you understand? Yes.

I just, I have a question about the first thing. So, this idea that in order for heaven to compensate for not having some happiness, it needs to combine heaven and earth.

Well, you need to have earth.

Like, what do you mean by compensate? Do you mean like, for a person to experience all the happiness, they have to both experience earth and heaven?

Okay, you're Beatrice, you're Rachel, right? You're experiencing all happiness, right? Where's this happiness coming from?

By you seeing what is happening on earth.

Yeah, because we generate this happiness on earth. And then because earth and heaven correspond, they experience this happiness. When we experience happiness, they do as well. But the happiness we experience, they can't possibly experience up there. So, we have to create it for them here. That's why people like Rachel and Beatrice are celebrated in heaven, because they create so much happiness that not only do they shine on earth, they also shine in heaven. Okay, does that make sense?

So, the idea is if you create happiness on earth, you're also helping create happiness on heaven.

Exactly. Okay, because it is not possible for heaven to create certain forms of happiness. Okay, yes?

And I think that also relates to, like, previously in the morning we discussed, like, why Beatrice is angry even in heaven, right? Exactly. As above, so below, right? Exactly. Yes.

Where there's injustice on earth, there must be, heaven can feel it as well. Okay, it's calling for us to create happiness and justice. Okay, do you understand? And this, again, is shocking for people at this time, because before they thought that earth and heaven were separate, right? Earth is imperfect, heaven is perfect. Earth is flat, heaven is spherical. Okay? So, this is a revolution in mentality. All right? Okay? Does it make sense, guys? All right. So, we are in God, okay? But at the same time, God is in us. How? Why? How is God able to manifest himself in us?

So, in some of my research about this, then, like a scholar had said that objective and subjective start to converge, and they were dealing with this with sight. So, like the seer, what is seen in the act of seeing, all converge into one. So, I wonder if maybe, if God is love, maybe this is the moment where my love, love itself, and the person, or the God being loved, all converge into one because there's no time and space.

Right, okay. So, exactly. So, God manifests itself in us through love. Do you understand? So, God is in us through love. We are in God for our imagination. And this is inseparable. This is what is the Trinity. Okay? Does it make sense? Right? And there are two instances when Dante lets us know that God is love. Right? The first is when he reconciles the Holy Trinity. Remember when Peter is testing Dante. And Peter asks Dante, what is God? And God says, God is love. And God says what? Do you remember? Yeah, what does Dante say about what God is?

God is love.

Yeah. Well, first of all, God is the Holy Trinity. Right? Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God, the Father, these are separate but equal. And so, how do you reconcile this, this, this paradox? Because all three represent love. You understand? So, God is love. Okay, so that's the first instance. Right? The second instance is the idea of the mirrored flame. So, we are just a mirror that reflects God. And God is love. Okay? As represented by a flame. Does that make sense? Okay? So, we are just a reflection of God in the universe. So, the way to appreciate God is that God is in us with a force of love. And we are inside God for our imagination. Another way of understanding this is that God is perfection. So, therefore, God can extend the perimeters of perfection. Right? To extend perfection is to say it's imperfect. So, the only way to resolve this paradox is for us, because we are imperfect, and for our imagination, we extend the boundaries of the universe.

Therefore, we let God know itself more. Right? So, it's only dawn on us. It's Dante, with his body, with his imperfect body, that's able to imagine what God is. Not Bernard, not any of the angels, not even Mary. Okay? And certainly not God itself. God doesn't even know what it is. It's Dante that's able to explain to us what God is. Okay?

But you're not saying that God only exists because of man?

No, I didn't say that.

Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure. Okay, yeah.

Yes?

It reminds me of languages. Like, yesterday we heard Italian. And I'm pretty sure none of us here speak Italian fluently. So, if you speak a language fluently, then all it sounds to you, all it sounds to you is like information. It's information. And that's the state that Bernard and Mary and every angel is in. But if you don't understand a language, and you listen to it, and you can hear the cadence, and you can hear the rhythm, and that's where Dante is at.

Okay. I didn't really understand the point. Can you rephrase?

So, if you understand a language, then people are speaking information. If you do not understand the language, then people are speaking a song to you.

I don't really understand that. Okay. All right. Sorry. Okay. Okay. So, what Dante is saying, ultimately, is that the imagination is the animating force of the universe. Okay? So, rather than see heaven as separate, rather than seeing God as separate, see us as humans, as part of the divine creation process. And so, you have a responsibility to imagine. Okay? Does that make sense? All right. So, you're like, okay, well, I understand, because that's what Disney movies teach me, or whatever. You know? What's the big deal here? It's a big deal because what the context is. The year 1300. All right? So, what I want to do now is I want to contrast this with another. We're passing from the Bible. Okay? So, this is what's called part of the apocalyptic tradition. Okay? Apocalypse. Apocalypse is Greek for revelation. All right? What is revealed to you. And, of course, there are, in the Bible, three really famous apocalyptic books.

There is the book of Revelation, the book of Revelation of John. There is the book of Revelation of John. There is the book of Daniel. And there is the book of Ezekiel. Ezekiel. Okay? And, actually, in Ezekiel, we have a situation where, also, Ezekiel visits God. Okay? And we're going to contrast what that experience is like. So, can we read Ezekiel 1 to 3? 1 to 3. So, just to say 1. And then, you know. Okay? So, we're going to compare, contrast what Dante experienced and what Ezekiel experienced.

Ezekiel 1. Ezekiel 1. In my thirtieth year, in the fourth month of the fifth day, while I was among the exiles of the Kibar River, the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God. On the fifth of the month, it was the fifth year of the exile of King Jehoiachin, the word of the Lord came to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, by the Kibar River in the land of the Babylonians. There the hand of the Lord was on him. I looked and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north, an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance, their form was human, but each of them had four faces and four wings. Their legs were straight, their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze.

Under their wings, on their four sides, they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead. They did not turn as they moved. Their faces looked like this. Each of the four had the face of a human being and on the right side, each had the face of a lion. On the left, the face of an ox. Each also had the face of an eagle. Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward, each wing touching that of the creature on each. It was just on either side and each had two other wings covering its body. Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go without turning as they went. The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire and like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures.

It was bright and lightning flashed out of it. The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning. As I looked at the living creatures, I saw that they were like torches. I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels. They sparkled like topaz and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced. The wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome and all four rims were full of eyes all around. When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved, and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

When the creatures moved, they also moved. When the creatures stood still, they also stood still. And when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. Spread out above the heads of the living creatures was what looked something like a vault sparkling like crystal and awesome under the vault their wings were stretched out one toward the other and each had two wings covering its body when the creatures moved i heard the sound of their wings like the roar of rushing water like the voice of the almighty like the tumult of an army when they stood still they lowered their wings then there came a voice from above the vault over their heads that they stood with their lowered wings above the vault over their heads was what looked like

a throne of lapis lazuli and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man i saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal as a full of life and that from there down he looked like fire and brilliant light surrounded him like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day so was the radiance around him this was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the lord when i saw it i fell face down and i heard a voice from above the vault over their heads it was what looked like a

the voice of one speaking okay let's go on to number two okay so you guys understand what's going on right i want you to compare contrast this with dante's meeting with god because this

is another meeting of god right ezekiel 2 he said to me son of man stand up on your feet and i will speak to you as he spoke the spirit came into me and raised me to my feet and i heard him speaking to me he said son of man i'm sending you to the israelites to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against me they and their ancestors have been involved against me to this very day the people to whom i'm sending you are obstinate and stubborn say to them this is what the sovereign lord says and whether they listen or fail to listen for there are rebellious people they will know that a prophet has been among them and you son of man do not be afraid of them or their words do not be afraid through briars and thorns are all around you and live among scorpions do not be afraid of what

they say and what they say and how they say and what they say and how they say and what they they say or be terrified by them though they're a rebellious people you must speak my words to them whether they listen or fail to listen for their rebellious but you son of man listen to what i say to you do not rebel like that rebellious people open your mouth and eat what i give you then i looked and i saw a hand stretched out to me and it was a scroll which he enrolled before me on both sides of it were written words of lament and mourning and woe okay and we'll do exactly three okay and then we'll stop ezekiel 3 and he said to me son of man eat what is before you eat this scroll then go and speak to the people of israel so i opened my mouth and he gave

me the scroll to eat then he said to me son of man eat this scroll i'm giving you and fill your stomach with it so i ate it and it tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth he then said to me son of man go now to the people of israel and speak my words to them you're not being sent to people of obscure speech and strange language but to the people of israel not too many peoples of obscure speech and strange language whose words you cannot understand surely if i had sent you to them they would have listened to you but the people of israel are not willing to listen to you because they're not willing to listen to me for all the israelites are hardened and obstinate but i will make you as unyielding and hardened as they are i will make your forehead like the hardest stone harder than flint do

not be afraid of them or terrified by them though they are a rebellious people and he said to me son of man listen carefully and take to heart all the words i speak to you go now to your people in exile and speak to them say to them this is what the sovereign lord says whether they listen or fail to listen then the spirit lifted me up and i heard behind me a loud rumbling sound as the glory of the lord rose from the place where it was standing it was the sound of the wings of the living creatures brushing against each other and the sound of the wheels beside them a loud rumbling sound the spirit then lifted me up and took me away and i went in bitterness and the anger of my spirit with the strong hand of the lord on me okay stop okay all

right okay so you guys there's this major difference between dante and ezekiel okay ezekiel is very much part of the biblical the apocalyptic tradition okay so we have ezekiel and we have dante and i want to compare contrast these two all right what are the differences you see let's let's just name them anyone yes

ezekiel thinks humans and people are bad and you don't it doesn't matter what they do

just be good yourself okay so ezekiel says that these israelites are bad okay yes yes so god is judgmental is god judgmental in dante okay so god is love that's a major difference first god is judgmental in ezekiel but in dante god is love okay he's not doesn't judge you yes

and dante feels like he's is more general and ezekiel um describes a lot of details

okay all right so another big difference is that ezekiel is a person who is not explicit okay you cannot possibly misinterpret his message he tells you these lights suck go tell me they suck okay whereas dante he is much more ambiguous okay why would dante be much more ambiguous why is he not explicit yes because he wants um the readers to

there's just multiple ways to interpret his words

yeah free will right he wants you to make a decision as to how to interpret his poetry right god has given him free will to to interpret what he wants to interpret right donnie was invited to meet god but god didn't actually say donnie go do this right donnie can interpret the meaning any way he wanted right so yeah what else what are some other differences okay um so in ezekiel there's a commandment okay there's an order from god right whereas in dante it's more about vision and imagination okay vision it's up to your

interpretation but with a commandment or a squirrel it's very written exactly yes okay

what are some other differences just to add on that well i mean just going back to uh paris 33 dante mentioned that the reason for the ambiguity and the vision is because god to his vision is to change and it's all it's it's um is it amorphic what's the what's the right word for its shape shifts right versus ezekiel who is i know god is like a general like he tells you abc if you if you

don't do abc that's it yeah look if you read ezekiel closely there's almost like a mechanical language to it okay it's mechanical uh whereas with dante it's more spiritual organic okay right what are some other differences

dante had to go through hell and purgatory to god exactly okay so for dante it was a journey right

it was a journey a process and ezekiel it's a destination he was just he was just shown these visions he never choice in the matter there was no journey good what else okay we can go on and on okay the major difference of course is that whereas ezekiel it is a revelation it is something that is shown to you dante is an act of imagination okay it's something that you must imagine yourself okay it's something that you must actively create yourself there's a creative process okay does it make sense all right so again the purpose of the divine comedy is to change the world and so if you are um in year 1300 and you grew up in the ezekiel tradition where god is angry god is scary god wants you to be afraid of him donnie's trying to change that and make you um less afraid so you can be much more imaginative right

so how does donnie accomplish this uh yes but but what is about divine comedy that allows people to lose their fear in god and allows me much more imaginative yes by saying that guys love so

oh and god will grant those who turn towards him so in in perfect love there's no fear oh in in the scriptures it's perfect love drives out fear so right but it's singing singing enough

yes i think it's because he's making the unknown unknown so like uh people are scared of burning

hell people scared of what's waiting for them after they die exactly that's it to understand every all fair is just based on mystery on what you don't know what donnie has done is showing the completeness of the universe from hell all the way up to heaven every aspect of the cosmos he's revealed to you right okay so um let's do shakespeare hamlet the famous hamlet soliloquy okay to be or not to be

all right so where's we'll read this together okay okay to be or not to be that is the question and then also the answer to this gets drawn in to the preserved verses and i think it helps us read along here but i hope you can read this because this is going to be a big topic for all of us today and that's what dr. hamrick's question is well as jacob has raised this question for the world he's really telling us just how important it is for people to be able to observe all the messages that we get from this and to be able to give way for the pause there's the respect that makes calamity of so long life for who would bear the whips and scorns of time the oppressors wrong the proud man's continually the pangs of despised love the laws delay the insolence of office and the spurns that patient merit

of the unworthy takes when he himself might this quietus make with a bare bodkin who would fartles bear to grunt and sweat under a weary life but that the dread of something after death the undiscovered country from whose bore no traveler returns puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those wills we have than fly to others that we know not of thus conscious that does make cowards of us all and thus the native hue of resolution is sickly it over with the pale cast of thought and enterprises of great pith and moment with this regard their currents turn awry and lose the name of action you

so there is at yale or he was at yale but harold bloom was the greatest american literary critic he was a huge fan of william shakespeare uh in fact he argued that it was shakespeare that created modernity created was human um but you know i i mean it's been a while since i read shakespeare but just putting dante side by side with shakespeare i am not that impressed with shakespeare anymore okay i mean like it took a long time for him to say what dante would have said in one or two lines seriously what what is shakespeare's point here what what yes people don't die because they're afraid exactly it's that simple okay there's really no like great truth to what to what shakespeare is saying here all shakespeare is saying is that people don't ask because they're afraid of death why are they afraid of death because they don't know what death is it's

that simple okay so um maybe someone can convince you that it's not true it's not true it's not true okay so um maybe someone can convince you that it's not true it's not true it's not true that this is great literature but having read dante i am not as impressed but yeah so so so this is the basic i premise here okay it's because of the unknown that uh people are afraid and what don has done with the divine comedy is revealed the entire cosmos to the world and but then you're like wait a minute here he can just make all this up right right he's like why would people believe this and the answer is let's look at some pictures okay let's look at some pictures do you guys know what know what near -death experiences are near -death experiences okay so there's this guy uh the the the pictures that we have right

okay so uh the first picture okay yeah here exactly okay okay guys look at the picture picture on the screen okay so there are people who have these near -death experiences and first of all what they describe is remarkably consistent okay they talk about how when they die they enter this realm which is beyond time and space which is complete unity and they meet god and god is pure love pure forgiveness non -judgmental all generosity okay it is remarkably consistent and one of the things that i think is really interesting is that there's a lot of these people actually remembered um the visions from his or her near -death experiences and look at the picture it's pretty similar to how donnie described heaven right where god and the angels are this huge spear of luminous light and everyone is surrounding them it's pretty similar to what donnie's described heaven right so it's pretty similar to

what donnie's described heaven okay uh let's go on to image two this is a uh ai rendering okay this is like again just exactly how donnie described paradise you see at the top all these angels flying around right you see at the core is god itself it's pretty similar and there's a hierarchy as well okay let's um this is an artist's rendition of dante and beatrice staring at the sky in the middle of the night at the imperium the angels surrounding it and god it's similar all right let's go to the last picture and this is dante constructing the hierarchy all paradise so not only did dante um give people a glimpse of heaven but it attunes to what people instinctively believe about heaven okay does anyone know about near deaf experiences what happens to people with near

deaf experiences do you guys know their life flashes before their eyes but what happens

afterwards they live yeah okay okay no no i mean yeah i understand okay yes that's why they're called near death experiences okay rather than to have experiences yeah but but it's interesting because like um they might be in a car crash or they might have had heart attack okay and they meet god and going god always asked them do you wanna go ahead and do it right um they asked god do you wanna go Opportunity death experience? or for those that made. death experience? dead? regarding the fact that you die Sickness? death experience or the ability to make a new life if you do that? death experience so there's a entire range of stages even in this world there aren't to study death experience really just the dance plate since medicare, death experience they analyze both cancer metsy Chungでも我 Yu Shi Jo Ko Mao want to stay here which is pure happiness

pure bliss or do you want to go back home and they always choose to go back home okay i'm saying saying like why do they go back home and what

happens to them after they go back home uh yes um it sounds really weird like how does god even determine this like uh at which point do god stop asking if you want to go home because i feel like if he asked every time there there will be a lot more people going home but why does god ask come

on guys do you want to go home no but why is god in my back we will come on we've been saying this for the past five classes okay free will is the fundamental law of the universe god can never force you do anything god must always ask you so everyone chooses to go back home and what happens

to this person to me uh they go they go back to the secular world to spread the message what message is this that god is love okay but what happens to the people who don't turn out to be big

uh youtubers who talking about their near -death experiences maybe they just pack up and go on

with their lives have you have you been on youtube have you looked at how many their deaf experience videos are on youtube there's like millions of them yeah yeah millions of them and there's way more people who don't talk about it um okay look there's a lot okay why would you want to

talk about it i think because that's everybody's question since like shakespeare said like no where no travelers return and then you're like oh wait i'm their traveler and they return yeah so i have to you know i'm the chosen messenger or something to tell people about what the ultimate philosophical question like oh where do we come from well the bible tells us that but we're going to heaven but nobody knows what it's like so i can

kind of be the messenger what is the main message of these people with narrative experiences what do

they tell others um the god is grace and god is love death is not the end yes okay don't fear death

don't lose your fear of death it is nothing it's only just another beginning uh yes does that mean

that if you refuse to die you could technically live to live forever what saint wait wait um okay all right okay repeat that okay because you said that when you die people say that god asked them do you want to heaven or do you want to go home and then if you just always say go home can you technically live

forever like that i think only in near -death experiences where you you are like between this gap of whether you can be saved or not by medical um intervention then god asks you to pick but if you're like dead dead like stone dead by car then you're just you know into after life

that's actually that's actually a huge gap between like uh death and death and that's actually a huge gap so how does god determine this

just have to trust him right no like what i mean like like if medical means cannot save you like you are like stone dead like super like if you are squeezed by a rock and you're like your brain shattered right then there's no way but if you are like kind of in a car concussion uh car accident you have concussion your brain's a bit shaken but not like crushed then maybe you know you got a

choice i'm saying that there's a spectrum of there's a there's a spectrum of things here and i don't know at which point is the cutoff point like there are

just god knows so if you see god god ask you the question then you you you know you have a choice

but if not uh yes uh i still have a question because the physics you keep telling us that nobody can die because we're just energy right energy will be forever in the universe but what if we don't feel afraid of death but what will fear which level we will be because after we die uh we have to go to some some heaven something we go to go to hell so if in that case you know we don't care about that but we care about in which level we will be in

after death after you know uh okay so let me ask you this question okay let's just say we lose our fear of death how would you live your life if you lost your fear of death what would you do you may

want to do whatever you want because if you don't fear of death you can't what would you do suicide

what explain the here what would you what would you commit suicide if you if you lose your fear of death

i mean you don't really care about living anymore so you might okay okay that's a possibility like

well you know like well fear of death um i don't like my life so i'll just kill myself yes what would you no no like imagine this okay use your love you should use your intuition use your imagination what would you do if you completely lost your fear of death

uh yeah you then you well that that's this expiration right that means the time you have you don't have any more time left so if you have infinite time then you would

no that's not what i said i said you lose your fear of death i didn't say you live forever

i said you lose your fear say you you don't have the sense you don't have this fear of death then you would procrastinate there would be no motivation to imagine to generate okay

oh sorry so you so you maybe live your life to the fullest because now you don't fear uh too much anymore and you want to live your life to the best of your ability so that you get more better place in heaven what would you do maybe get closer to god i guess like to to learn more about him so that you know i can end up in a higher sphere of heaven i guess okay you would go

and learn more right yeah okay yes um i once met this guy he told me he had a near -death experience when he was like 20 or in a very young and then afterward he felt that his life was on um was was on more was on extra time so his life has already ended he is on extra time and this time has just been gifted to him so he he's now like i think 80 something but he spent his whole life pursuing um sustainability and working an ngo and not making any money yeah that's what the

majority of people think about him and i think that's what i think about him and i think that's what people will do maybe maybe not everyone okay maybe maybe somebody will just kill themselves but the majority of people will just live the life to the fullest we'll just do whatever you want to do now okay because you're not afraid of death anymore you're like i don't care i'm just gonna i have free will i have free choice okay uh yes so i think it's more of uh no one else goes

to tell me how to live my life anymore so the whole the whole thing of the catholic church is that if you don't let us tell you what to do with your life then you're going to hell and it's going to be like you're going to hell and it's going to be like you're going to hell and it's going to be like horrible but not being afraid of death anymore not being afraid of this catholic help anymore means that you're free to do what you want deep down exactly that that's why donnie wrote divine

comedy to free people of the fear of death because as you point out the real public catholic church is they make people afraid of death right if you don't obey us we'll send you to hell right if you don't obey us you won't get into heaven so what what the real purpose of divine comedy is to expand your imagination by uh liberating you from your fear of death and they and it does that by providing an imaginative universe that is complete that is detailed and which is all loving there's no fear in heaven right these angels aren't meant to scare you like in ezekiel they're meant to scare you uh god is meant to scare you but in divine comedy it's in heaven it's all embracing it's all forgiving it's all welcoming okay does that make sense okay any questions okay so um as i pointed out there's a reason why we did paradise first

and it's to really understand the cosmology of don to understand why he's doing what he's doing but ultimately um donnie's not working in a vacuum right it's not like he's doing what he's doing he's doing what he's doing he can just present this poetry and it'll be accepted because in this time of history there's a greater power than the catholic church and it's virgil okay you think it's the catholic church that has all the power but it's virgil the poet who has all the power because as we said what poetry does is that it embeds itself into the collective unconscious and the language and the beauty shapes the way you see the world so Dante's real conflict, his real enemy, is not the Catholic Church, it is Virgil, okay? So now what we'll do for the rest of this, rest of our time together, is explore this cosmic conflict between Virgil and Dante, and not

only that, but we will apply it to our world and see how this conflict is shaping our world, okay? Does that make sense? Okay, so now we are done with paradise, we're leaving paradise, and we're going to go to hell, okay? So this is Canto 1, Inferno. This is a great website, right? It's so easy to navigate. Yeah, go ahead.

Does being in vegetative state include as part of near -death experiences? Because technically, I know a lot of people, once people can kind of know what you're thinking of, their first thought. It's like, to kill me. But we literally just said that if you're in near -death situation, God will ask you whether you want to live or not. So is this kind of like an exception to this concept? Like, I'm just a little bit confused, I'm sorry.

Okay, so the idea is, what happens if you're in a coma? Well, if you're in a coma, it's also very much like a near -death experience. And again, God asks you, do you want to live or not, right? Because there are people who wake up from a coma. And there are people who don't wake up from a coma. And I think a lot of it has to do with your will to live. Okay, does that make sense? Okay. All right. So this is Canto 1 of Inferno. Okay. All right. The very beginning.

Okay. When I had journeyed half of our lives away, I found myself within a shadowed forest, for I had lost the path that does not stray. Okay. All right. It is hard to speak of. It is hard to speak of what it was, that savage forest, dense and difficult, which even in recall renews my fear. So bitter death is hardly more severe. But to retell the good discovered there, I'll also tell the other things I saw. I cannot clearly say how I had entered the wood. I was so full of sleep just at the point where I abandoned the true path. But when I'd reached the bottom of a hill, it rose along the boundary of the valley that had harassed my heart with so much fear. I looked on high. I saw its shoulders clothed already by the rays of that same planet, which serves to lead men straight along all roads. At this,

my fear was somewhat quieted, for through the night of sorrow, I had spent the lake within my heartfelt terror present. And just as he who with exhausted breath having escaped from sea to shore turns back to watch the dangerous waters he has quit, so did my spirit, still a fugitive, turn back to look intently at the past that never has let any of us go. I tried to leave the valley, but I could not. I let my tired body rest a while. Moving again, I tried the lonely slope. My firm foot always was the one below. And almost where the hillside starts to rise, look there. A leopard very quick in life, a leopard covered with a spotted hide. He did not disappear from sight but stayed. Indeed, he so impeded my ascent that I had often to turn back again. The time was the beginning of the morning. The sun was rising now in

fellowship. With the same stars that had escorted it when divine love first moved those things of beauty. So that the hour and the gentle season gave me good cause for hopefulness on seeing the beast before me with his speckled skin. But hope was hardly able to prevent the fear I felt when I beheld a lion. His head held high and ravenous with hunger. Even the air around him seemed to shudder. This lion seemed to make his way against me. And then as she would showed herself, she seemed to carry every craving in her leanness. She had already brought despair to many. The very sight of her so weighted me with fearfulness that I banded hope of ever climbing up that mountain slope. Even as he who glories while he gains will when the time has come to tally laws, lament with every thought and turn despondent. So was I when I faced that restless beast,

which even has. He's. She stalked me step by step, had thrust me back to where the sun is speechless while I retreated down to lower ground before my eyes. There suddenly appeared one who seemed faint because of the long silence when I saw him in that vast wilderness have pity on me where the words I cried, whatever you may be a shade, a man. He answered me, not man. I once was man. Both of my parents came from Lombardi and both claimed Mantua as native city. And I was born the late soup, Julio, and lived in Rome under the good Augustus, the season of the false and lying gods. I was a poet and I sang the righteous son of anchors who had come from Troy when flames destroyed the pride of Ilya. And why do you return to wretchedness? Why not climb up the mountain of the light, the origin and cause of every joy?

And are you then that vigil you, the fountain? That really pours so rich a stream of speech? I answered him with shame upon my brow, a light and honor of all other poets. May my long study and the intense love that made me search your volume serve me now. You're my master and my author. You the only one from whom my writing drew the noble style from which I have been honored. You see the beast that made me turn aside. Help me. Oh, famous sage to stand against her. For she has made. My blood and pulses shudder. It is another path that you must take. He answered when he saw my tearfulness. If you would leave the savage wilderness, the beast that is the cause of your outcry allows no man to pass along her track, but blocks him even to the point of death. Her nature is so squalid, so malicious that she can never sate her greedy will.

When she has fed, she's hungrier than ever. She mates with many living souls. And shall yet mate with many more, until the grey hound arrives, inflicting painful death on her. That hound will never feed on land or pewter, but find his fair in wisdom, love, and virtue. His place of birth shall be between two felts. He will restore low -lying Italy, for which the maid Camilla died of wounds, and Nisus, Turnus, and Euryalus. And he will hunt that beast through every city until he thrusts her back to hell. For which she was first sent above by envy. Therefore I think and judge it best for you to follow me, and I shall guide you, taking you from this place through an eternal place, where you shall hear the howls of desperation and see the ancient spirits and their pain, as each of them laments his second death. And you

shall see these souls who are content within the fire, for they hope to reach, whenever that may be, the blessed people. If you would then ascend as high as these, a soul, more worthy than I am, will guide you. I'll leave you in her care when I depart. Because that emperor who reigns above, since I have been rebellious to his law, will not allow me entry to his city. He governs everywhere, but rules from there. There is his city, his high capital. Oh, happy those, he chooses to be there. And I replied, Oh poet by that god, whom you had never come to know, I beg you that I may flee this evil and worse evils to lead me to hell. the place of which you spoke that i may see the gateway of saint peter and those whom you describe as sorrowful then he set out and i moved on behind him okay so

this is the very beginning of divine

comedy and again we've been a paradise so we know exactly what this cosmology is um this is year 1300 and donna is like the middle age right so 35 or 40 and he is in a shadowed forest and he has absolutely no idea where he's going okay so he's basically in a midlife crisis and when he walks around he sees these beasts right and these beasts block his way forward and he's looking for escape and so virgil shows up and says let me guide you and then donnie's like you're my hero you're you are the person who i've worshipped all my life and um how can we bypass these beasts uh yes i have a question which is why is dante being so modest right now being so what modest modest modest being so modest okay that's because he's lying he's lost he's scared he's hungry if someone's gonna come and give you some food

you you better be modest right right but also um does dante respect virgil yeah a lot right because at this time in history if you are um an educated person you all read virgil and how do you read virgil do you guys know no but like like like how do you study virgil all the time um you need to make the Virgil. You have to memorize Virgil. You don't actually sit down and analyze Virgil. You just memorize it word for word. And that's just how you learn Latin. And if you were educated, you had to speak Latin the way that Virgil spoke Latin. That's how you prove your eloquence. So Dante is in awe of Virgil. Dante sees Virgil as a father figure. Does that make sense? So you have to appreciate that at this time in history, Dante worships Virgil, and Virgil is going to be his guide. Okay, so let's continue the story where Virgil shows up, and Dante's like, how do we get past the beast?

And Virgil says, you can't get past through the beast. You have to go through another way. You have to go through hell. Okay, so can someone explain to me what this is a metaphor for? First of all, why is Dante in the forest? Why is he in the forest? Why is he in the forest? Why is he in the forest? Why is he in the forest? lost and what do the bees represent and why the starting set what was virgil says you can actually you cannot actually defeat the bees you cannot actually confront the bees you just have to avoid the bees what is this a metaphor for yes uh actually i think beast is just kind of anger

fear or some kind of you know which is not so good of character in his mind and the furries it means that he just get lost so he just be excel you know yeah yeah exactly that's that's exactly

correct right where he is middle -aged and his life sucks his life is falling apart uh he's been exiled from he's about to be exiled from florence his political faction uh the white guelphs are in conflict and losing to the black wealth okay so he's completely lost that's like how do they get to this point i see no possible path forward and he is consumed by angst by anger by hatred by fear and that confuses you that that blinds you from seeing any possible path and what virgil is saying to me is like you cannot actually confront your anger you can't confront your hatred you can't confront your fear the only thing you can do is learn more open your mind develop your imagination and then these p's will naturally go away does that make sense guys never ever try to confront your anger i never try to front, your fear, your doubts, that doesn't get you anywhere.

Develop more experiences, right? So let's just say that you have problems with your parents, okay? You really, really hate your parents. You go to a therapist and your therapist tells you, well we need to talk to you about your parents, okay? So talk about all these memories you have as your, as a child, right? And we will through talk therapy reimagine your childhood, okay? Is that a good idea? Would I agree to this?

Why not? Why not? What's the problem with that? Because I'll be like just like the metaphor like facing the beast and I don't think like by, by confronting with your anger you can like, like you can find like a resolution throughout that. That's what Donnie says, but why? What happened?

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get over this so you go out and have life experiences yourself you go out fall in love

become a parent yourself and then you understand your parents okay exactly okay okay that's the better path and and that's what virgil's saying like let's not do talk therapy let's not go to therapy guys because because all that's going to do is feed the beast it'll just make you more trapped in this forest let us go through hell and then if you see what anger fear and hatred does to people this will help you elevate or help you alleviate reduce your anger fear uh yes um to me

it seems a lot like you're it seems like uh what they're suggesting is more like ignoring stuff and distracting yourself or stuff rather than confronting stuff okay what what's the response

it seems like donnie's is running away right what what's the response anyone yeah yeah well i mean

that's the point of what he's saying

it's not to confront us to find a new way yeah you don't have to confront something to defeat something okay you can go around that thing why do you need to run into a wall we can just walk

around the wall yeah yeah it's kind of like the chinese wisdom i guess it's like you kind of go around it you don't have to go straight to show that you defeat it or confront it directly you can still solve the problem in many different ways right what i'm trying to say is that yeah you can

ignore it and for the time being and that it's going to be way better than if you do talk therapy if you dive deep down into it but the point is that it's still there and it might ambush you every single day like when you're angry truly angry about something it might ambush you every single day and it might ruin everything else so why not confront it you are confronting it by going to hell

already so you're still taking an active action to get rid of it by going to hell so you solve it it

and so just going to hell solves me all my problems like i take to yeah like i take a round

trip to hell and it solves the problems uh yes uh maybe because you know uh all of this anger fear it cannot be distinguished it cannot be destroyed it just always may exist in your mind so you do better you just not just to kill them or or unless you cure yourself right so you had better to

avoid it maybe okay yeah so something i struggled with personally is we just finished the paradiso and so he was a he was arrogant and enlightened person there and so it's it's struggling for me to then go back to the inferno where he's a flawed sinful person without all the answers and he's got to go through the next three books to get most of the answers so maybe he is making some mistakes maybe he's not perfect right at this moment

yeah right okay so he has to go through this journey if he's if he's the sand yeah right okay so he has to go through this journey if he's if he's the sand to heaven if he's trying to find his true self, okay? All right, let's keep on reading.

Canto two. The day was now departing. The dark air released the living beings of the earth from work and weariness, and I myself alone prepared to undergo the battle both of the journeying and of the pity, which memory mistaking not shall show. O muses, O high genius, help me now. O memory that set down what I saw. Here shall your excellence reveal itself. I started. Poet, you who are my guide, see if the force in me is strong enough before you let me face that rugged pass. You say that he who fathered Silvius, while he was still corruptible, had journeyed into the deathless world with his live body. For if the enemy of every evil was courteous to him, considering all he would cause and who and what he was, that does not seem incomprehensible, since in the imperialist world, the enemy of every evil was courteous to him, considering all he would cause and who and what he was.

He was chosen to father, honored Rome and her empire. And if the truth be told, Rome and her realm were destined to become the sacred place, the seat of the successor of great Peter. And through the journey you ascribed to him, he came to learn of things that were to bring his victory into the papal mantle. Later, the chosen vessel traveled there to bring us back assurance of that faith with which the way to our salvation starts. But why should I go there? Who sanctions it? For I am not Aeneas, I am not Paul, nor I nor others think myself so worthy.

Okay, so again, he's being really, really modest here, right? He's saying, Virgil says, like, we have to go into hell. And Donna is saying, it's like, I'm not worthy at all, because you think of all these major figures who's been to hell. I'm not worthy, right? Because who's been to hell? You have Aeneas, who's the hero of the Aeneid. You have Paul, and who else do you have? Jesus, yes, the chosen vessel. Jesus has been to hell, okay? So it's almost like a special privilege, where you don't die, but you still go to hell. It's only if you're a really, really special person would you have that access, okay? So Donna's like, I'm not worthy, Virgil.

I can't, go into hell and uh first 34 therefore if i consent to start this journey i hear my venture may be wild and empty you're wise you know far more than what i say and just as he who unwills what he wills and shifts what he intends to seek new when so that he's drawn from what he had begun so was i in the midst of that dark land because with all my thinking i know the task i had so quickly undertaken if i have understood what you have said replied the shade of that great hearted one your soul has been assailed by cowardice which often weighs so heavily on a man distracting him from honorable trials as phantoms frighten beasts when shadows fall that you may be delivered from this fear i'll tell you why i came and what i heard when i first felt

compassion for your pain okay so do you understand like donnie right now in his middle age he is lost in the forest because of his fear okay he has been ceased by fear um uh keep going verse 52 i was among those souls who are

suspended a lady called to me so blessed so lovely that i implored to serve at her command her eyes surpassed the splendor of the stars and she began to speak to me so gently and softly with angelic voice she said oh spirit of the courteous manchuan whose fame is still a presence in the world and shall endure is long as the world lasts my friend who has not been the friend of fortune is hindered in his path along that lonely hillside he has been turned aside by terror from all that i have heard of him in heaven he is i fear already so astray that i have to come to help him much too late go now with your persuasive word with all that is required to see that he escapes bring help to him that i may be consoled for i am beatrice who sends you on i come from where i most long