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Great Books #11: Dante's Revolution

Source-synced transcript for the compressed reading. Spans keep the original chronology, timestamps, and audit trail behind the public interpretation.

Jiang

So we have a two -part lecture series to finish Divine Comedy. So today we start part one and the next Wednesday we do part two. So Divine Comedy is the most influential work of literature in European history. Why? Because Dante's comedy will give rise to the Protestant Reformation as well as the Sino -Revolution, the Enlightenment, Renaissance, basically modernity itself. Okay? So the question is how did Dante accomplish this? He accomplished this basically by responding to Virgil. Okay? So for the longest time, for about a thousand years, Virgil was the most dominant thinker in European history. And Virgil's Iliad, which we read, becomes the basis for Augustine. He wrote two major books, Confessions and City of God. And this will become the basis of the Catholic Church. All right? So how did Virgil come to become the soul of the Catholic Church? He came up with the idea of human nature. Okay?

Jiang

So Augustine will emphasize the idea of original sin. Okay? So the original sin was an act of disobedience when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the fruit, sorry, the tree of knowledge. Okay? They ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge. That's an act of disobedience because God explicitly said you can do whatever you want in this Garden of Eden, but don't eat that fruit. And they disobeyed God. And Augustine points out that what compelled this original sin is pride. We humans cannot bear to serve God, to be humble before God. We seek to overthrow God. And so God had no choice but to punish us. Okay? So what drives this original sin? What drives this original sin is that yes, it is true that God, He breathed life into us. Okay? He breathed life into us, so that our soul is the divine spark. That is true. The problem though is that our bodies are made from dust.

Jiang

Okay? Dust. And as a result, because we are dust, we strive for dirty things, such as lust, pride, gluttony, sloth, seven deadly sins, okay? And we can't help ourselves. And the only way to repair the world, the only way for us to seek salvation and redemption, the only path to heaven is obedience, okay? What Virgil will call piety. And so as long as we are loyal to the Catholic Church, we'll be fine. The Catholic Church will guide us like a shepherd guides his flock to heaven. But what's really important to understand is that our nature is dirty. We are sinful by nature and therefore we can't trust our own intuition, okay? And this becomes a framework for medieval Europe, which lasts about a thousand years. And this is what led to something called the Dark Ages, when basically the entire world surpassed Europe in terms of innovation, wealth, and intellectual creativity. So what

Jiang

Don is going to do is he's going to assert the power and the truth of individual intuition, okay? So the major argument that Don is gonna make is that, yes, it is true that we are made of dust. It is true that with bodies we seek pleasures. But that divine spark in us, it never went away. And much more importantly, that divine spark still connects us to God, okay? So as long as we're able to activate this divine spark, we can be imaginative. We can seek to be true for ourselves. We don't need the Catholic Church, all right? So Dante, what he's doing is he's asserting the primacy of love. We don't need to obey others. We don't need the church. Because love, if we just activate the love within us, this will connect us back to God. And this connection will drive our imagination, which will make us creative. And creativity is the ultimate purpose of the church.

Jiang

And creativity is the ultimate purpose of the church. And creativity is the ultimate purpose of the church. And creativity is the ultimate purpose of the universe, okay? So what I'll do in this two -part lecture series is, in the first part, look at Virgil, what the argument he's making, okay? And then, on Wednesday, I will conclude with Dante, all right? So any questions so far about this framework? Okay. So again, the argument, the debate, it's very simple. Is human nature fundamentally good or bad? Okay, if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad. So if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad. So if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad. So if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad. So if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad. So if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad. So if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad.

Jiang

So if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad. So if you think it's bad, then you know it's bad. need to create a hierarchy to control human behavior. But if, like Dante, you're optimistic, then you don't need to control human behavior. In fact, you want to encourage individual intuition as much as possible. So that's a fundamental debate. All right, so let's look at the basic structure of the Divine Comedy. So we've read the entirety of Inferno, okay? And from Inferno, Virgil and Dante will go to Purgatory, where souls will cleanse themselves of sins so that they are ready to go to Paradise, okay? So we're going to look at Purgatory today, and then next class we'll look at Paradise. All right, so Purgatory is modeled very much in a very similar way as the Inferno. Okay, so the wonderful thing about the Divine Comedy is it's structured.

Jiang

It's very visual. So in Purgatory, what you do is, first of all, you enter Purgatory, okay? You enter Purgatory, but the moment you enter Purgatory, what an angel who guards the Purgatory will do is stamp seven P's onto you, okay? Each P represents a sin. And so what you do is you climb each terrace of this mountain, and each terrace, has a particular sin, okay? So terrace one is pride, terrace two is envy, terrace three is anger, terrace four is laziness, terrace five is covetousness, terrace six is gluttony, and terrace seven is lust, okay? So it's almost like the inverse of Inferno. And so each time you clear a terrace, by absolving yourself, by cleansing yourself of a particular sin, a P is removed from your forehead. And once you remove all P's, you climb up to essentially the Garden of Eden up here, and then up here, what's going to happen

Jiang

is that Beatrice is going to descend from heaven and pick Dante up so that they can ascend to heaven together, okay? So Virgil is going to guide Dante through the process of purgatory and then leave Dante to Beatrice. Okay, that's the basic structure of purgatory. Any questions so far? All right. All right, so we're going to start reading, okay? All right, so again, remember that the fundamental difference between Dante and Virgil is that Virgil is ultimately skeptical about human nature, whereas Dante is optimistic. Okay, so we're first going to figure out what Virgil's argument is. Okay, so Ivor, can you replace?

Source

And even as I turned towards him, I asked, what did the spirit of Romagna mean when he said, sharing cannot have a part? And his reply, he knows the harm that lies in his worst vice. If he chastises it to ease his expiation, do not wonder. For when your longings center on things such as sharing, then them apportions less to each, then envy stirs the bellows of your sighs. But if the love within the highest sphere should turn your longings heavenward. The fear inhabiting your breasts would disappear. For there, the more there are who would say ours, so much the greater is the good possessed by each. So much more love burns in that cloister.

Jiang exchange

Okay, stop. Okay, all right. So what, so there are in the terrace of envy. And here people must expiate themselves of their envy of others. And envy comes from misguidance, okay? People actually are for whether it's, whether I have a husband. Well, at that point, one mother says, she looking, but she doesn't treat every woman Vorazно crazy woman. Now she has got the opposite. Right. We have to be useful. I don't care what you say man, if you're an opposite woman. You have to be more shrewd. If you're an opposite woman, that says you are Oregon, why you look at me suit yourself. Enough.exe got access. I'm doing it. I'm settling in. I'm settling in. Or solche obede ne Mechanicals. Okay, I'm not smoking no more ice or tonic. And then theelerae is over there. Well, if you're and lifting each other's spirit. So that's the difference between the material world and the spiritual world, where in the material world, sharing can be punished because it's a zero sum game.

Jiang exchange

If someone has an apple, you don't have it. If you have that apple, someone else doesn't have it. But in the spiritual world, which focus on love, generosity, forgiveness, the more you love, the more generous you are, the more generosity it creates in the world, right? If you smile at someone, that other person smiles back at you. If you're kind to that person, that person is kind to others, right? So that is the misconception. That's why people have envy, because they are ignorant of the nature of the universe. Envy is sort of a focus on the material world, and to expiate yourself of envy, you must focus on the spiritual world, okay? So here, Virgil and Dante do not disagree. Keep on going.

Source

I am more hungry now for satisfaction, I said.

Jiang source read-aloud

I, of course, is Dante, right? Keep on going.

Source

Then if I had held my tongue before, I host a deeper doubt within my mind. How can a good that's shared by more possessors enable each to be more rich in it than if that good had been possessed by few? And he to me, but if you still persist in letting your mind fix on earthly things, then even from true light you gather darkness. That good, ineffable and infinite, which is above, directs itself towards love, as light to me. It directs itself to polished bodies. Where ardor is, that good gives of itself. And where more love is, where more love is, there that good confers a greater measure of eternal worth. And when there are more souls above who love, there is more to love while there, and they love more, in mirror, like each soul reflects the other. And if my speech has not appeased your hunger, you will see Beatrice. She will fulfill this in all other longings that you feel.

Source

Now only strive, so that the other five wounds may be canceled quickly, as the two already are. The wound's contrition heals.

Jiang

Okay, alright. So, what he's saying here is that this spiritual world is the good, right? God, basically. And so, the more kindness, the more love you donate to other people, they reflect that, and that spreads love and kindness all around the universe. Okay? So, one way to visualize this is something called Indra's net. And this is a concept from Hinduism and Buddhism, okay? So, what is a soul? Who are we? Well, we are a pearl in a universe of pearls, okay? It's a net. And the thing about a pearl is that it reflects everything. So, within us, we reflect the universe. Okay? So, within us is a universe, okay? So, do you guys see this? And the idea here is that our souls are a fractal of the universe. And therefore, whatever we do is reflected throughout the entire universe. Okay? If this pearl chooses to smile, every other pearl reflects that smile. If this pearl chooses to be angry, the other pearls become angry as well.

Jiang

That's why being sinful or being good is so important. Because literally, we have the entire fate of the universe in our hearts. Okay? So, again, Dante and Virgil do not disagree here. So, do you guys understand the concept here? This is very important for Dante, okay? And this concept is something that we expanded on when we get to paradise. That we are just a reflection of the entire universe. All right, can you continue, Ivory?

Source

Tell me, my gentle father, what offense is purged within the circle we have reached? Although our feet must stop, your words need not. And he to me, precisely here, the love of good that is too typically pursued is mended. Here delays the hour applies harder. But so that you may understand more clearly, now turn your mind to me, and you will gather some useful fruit from our delaying here. My son, there is no creator and no creature whoever was without love, natural or mental, and you know that.

Jiang exchange

Okay, so here, the idea of love is just a reflection of God. Okay, remember, God breathed his life into Adam, and so we have the aspect of God in us. Okay, so everything has love in it. The question is the degree of love, and the question is how impact is love in our lives. Okay, keep on going.

Source

The natural is always without error, but mental love may choose an evil object or error throws too much or too little vigor. As long as it's directed towards the first good and tends towards secondary good, it's with measure. It cannot be the cause of evil pleasure. But when it twists towards evil or attends to good with more or less care than it should, those whom he made have worked against their maker.

Jiang exchange

Wait, stop, okay. So this is the idea of duality, right? Where you have the soul, and the soul is pure love, and it comes from the divine, and it's eternal. Therefore, it's always good. The problem is that the soul is inside a body. Okay? The body is made of dust. And as a result, it's constantly striving towards evil. And so within us is this constant conflict between the soul and the body, which seeks material pleasures, which basically seeks sin. All right? And again, what Virgil will say is, honestly, most of us basically cannot withstand the temptation. And that's why we need the church and authority and obedience. Okay, keep on going.

Source

From this you see that, of necessity, love is the seed in you of every virtue and of all acts deserving punishment. Now, since love never turns aside its eyes from the well -being of its subject, things are surely free from hatred of themselves. And since no being can be seen as self -existing and divorced from the first being, each creature is cut off from hating him. Thus, if I have distinguished properly, ill love must mean to wish one's neighbor ill, and this love is born in three ways in your clay. There is he who, through abasement of another, hopes for supremacy. He only longs to see his neighbor's excellence cast down. Then there is one who, when he is outdone, fears his own loss of fame, power, honor, favor. His sadness loves misfortune for his neighbor. And there is he who, over injury received, resentful, for revenge grows greedy, and, angrily, seeks out another's heart.

Jiang exchange

Okay, all right. So again, the original sin is a sin of pride, okay? So what Virgil is saying here is, look, it's impossible for you to hate God, because God is the ultimate good. It's impossible for you to hate yourself. So the hate comes from your envy of others, your pride, the fact that you want to stand above other people. And if other people are above you, then you conspire against them, and that's a source of all sin, okay? All right, let's keep on going.

Participant

This threefold love is as expiated here below. Now I would have you understand the love that seeks the good distortedly. Each apprehends confusedly a good in which the mind may rest and longs for it, and thus all strive to reach that good. But if the love that urges you to know it or to reach that good is lax, this terrorist, after a just repentance, punishes for that. There is a different good, which does not make men glad. It is not happiness. It is not true essence, fruit and root of every good. The love that profligately yields to that is whipped on your three terraces above us. But I'll not say what three shapes that love takes. May you seek those distinctions for yourself.

Jiang

Okay, all right. So the purpose of purgatory is for us to cleanse ourselves of our material wants and desires, okay? To focus on the spiritual, to remember where we came from, and to remember our connection with the good. That will allow us to access heaven at the end, okay? Keep on going.

Source

The subtle teacher had completed his discourse to me. Attentively he washed my eyes to see if I seemed satisfied. And I, still goaded by a new thirst, was silent without, although within I said, Perhaps I have displeased him with too many questions. But that true Father, who had recognized a timid want, I would not tell aloud, by speaking, gave me courage to speak out. At which I said, Master, my sight is still illumined by your light. I recognize all that your words declare or analyze. Therefore, I pray you, gentle Father, dear, to teach me what love is. You have reduced to love both each good and its opposite.

Jiang

Okay, so basically what Virgil is saying is that love is the fundamental force of the universe. If we move away from love, we do bad things. If we move towards love, we do good things. Okay? So now, Donny is like, Then tell me exactly what love is. Be specific about love. Alright?

Source

He said, Direct your intellect's sharp eyes toward me, and let the error of the blind whose service guides be evident to you. The soul, which is created quick to love, responds to everything that pleases, just as soon as beauty awakens it to act. Your apprehension draws an image from a real object and expands upon that object, until soul has turned toward it. And if so turned, the soul tends steadfastly. Then that propensity is love. It's nature that joins the soul in you, anew through beauty. Then, just as flames ascend because the form of fire was fashioned to fly upward toward the stuff of its own sphere, where it lasts longest, so does the soul, when seized, move into longing, a motion of the spirit, never resting till the beloved thing has made you joyous.

Jiang

Okay, okay, so this is really important, okay? So let's try to understand what he's saying here. So the soul comes from the divine, okay? It is a memory of God. And it is inside a body, okay? A body that allows it to experience the world. This body confuses the soul, and the soul is lost. And the soul believes that whatever is beautiful, I must seek, okay? So the soul, if you leave it alone, it's going to want to return to God. But if it sees something beautiful, okay, it doesn't know if it should, if it's good or bad, okay? All it knows is, like, I want to go to it. So what happens is the soul expands outwards and tries to encompass it. And then what it does is it moves towards it and tries to swallow it whole. It consumes it, okay? Right? So think of Dido and Aeneas. Where Dido sees Aeneas in the Iliad, falls in love with him, and he must have him, okay?

Jiang

He moves towards him and tries to consume him. It drives her insane. And the moment he leaves her, she has to kill herself, okay? So that's the issue with the soul. The soul moves towards what's beautiful. It doesn't even know why it's doing so. And when it moves, it tries to absorb and consume it, okay? Because that's what it was trained to do, right? God created it so that the soul would one day return to God. But because as a body, the soul becomes confused, and if it sees a beautiful woman, the soul is like, I must have her. I must have sex with her. It doesn't matter if I rape her. It doesn't matter if I marry her. I don't really care, but I must have her. I must control her, okay? I must consume her. All right, keep on going.

Source

Now you can plainly see how deeply hidden truth is from surreptitists who would insist that every love is, in itself, praiseworthy. And they are led to error by the matter of love because it may seem always good, but not each seal is fine, although the wax is. Your speech and my own wit that followed it, I answered him, have shown me what love is, but that has filled me with still greater doubts. For if love's offered to me, it is offered to us from without, and is the only foot with which soul walks. Soul, going straight or crooked, has no merit. And he to me, what reason can see here, I can impart, pass that for truth of faith. It's beatrice alone you must await. Every substantial form at once distinct from matter and conjoined to it, and gathers the force that is distinctively its own, the force unknown to us until it acts. It's never shown except in its effect, as its green brows, bows display the life in plants.

Participant

Jiang

Okay, so Don is confused by this formulation because if we are trying to consume something that we love, then how can we know what's good and what's evil? What is the mechanism that tells us what's good and what's evil? The soul is just doing what it must do, right? The soul must seek out what's beautiful and consume it. The soul thinks that whatever's beautiful must be God, but if it gets confused and thinks that a woman is beautiful and the soul tries to control that woman, then that's a bad thing, right? So why would God create a system in which you are naturally compelled to do evil? Alright? And, uh, keep on going.

Source

And thus man does not know the source of his intelligence of primal notions and his tending towards desires, or the primal objects. Both are in you, just as in bees there is the honey -making urge. Such primal will deserves no praise, and it deserves no blame. Now, that all other longings may conform to this first will, there is in you, inborn, the power that counsels, keeper of the threshold of your ascent. This is the principle on which your merit may be judged, for it garners and winnows good and evil longings. Those reasoners who reason and reach the roots of things learn of this inborn freedom, to bequest that, thus, they're left unto the world's its ethics. Even if we allow necessity of source of every love that flames in you, the power to curb that love is still your own. This noble power is what Beatrice means by free will, therefore remember it, if she should ever speak of it to you.

Participant

Jiang

Okay, the power to curb that love is still your own, this is what free will is. Okay? So here's the logic here. The logic is, love is not good or bad. Okay? It's just natural part of you. It's like an animal desires food. It's like good or bad. It's just who we are. So, in this circumstance, what is good? What is good is our capacity to control our emotions. Right? In other words, obedience is good. Obedience is what is free will. Okay? If we're able to shift from emotions to reason, that is good. What is reason? Reason is the capacity to restrain our emotions by obeying authority. It's only authority that allows us to control ourselves, to know what's right and wrong. Okay? And this was the essence. This was the main message of the Inniyat. Right? Innius is on a mission to found the Roman Empire. He goes from Troy to Carthage to the Italian Peninsula.

Jiang

But it's actually a spiritual journey because when he starts this journey, he's very emotional. He sees Helen and he wants to kill Helen because he thinks that Helen is the person who caused the destruction of Troy. Troy is being destroyed and Innius wants to fight the Greeks and die in the process because he wants to save his homeland even though it's been destroyed. Okay? He goes to Carthage and he's not supposed to be at Carthage. He falls in love with Dido and he wants to stay there. And each time the gods have to come in and says, Hey man, listen, you have a mission to do. You have to go to Italy in order to find Rome. Okay? So, and then towards the end of the Inniyat, Innius recognizes his mission is to obey the gods. He has, he can no longer obey his emotions. Therefore at the end, when he's fighting Chernus

Jiang

and Chernus is defeated, he wants to show mercy to Chernus because Chernus has become very pitiful. But he recognizes, no, I cannot allow my emotions sway me. I cannot trust my intuition. I can never ever show love to others. I must obey the gods. I must obey my mission. I must be reasonable. And so he kills Chernus and that's how the Inniyat ends. Okay? Does that make sense? That is the main argument that Virgil is making. It is not love that defines who we are. It's reason that defines who we are. Reason as defined by obedience. If we are able to obey, that demonstrates our free will. Okay? All right. So let's, let's move on to another passage. Okay. Keep on going.

Source

Natural thirst that can never be quenched except by water that gives grace. The drought, the simple woman of Samaria sought, tormented me. Haste spurred me on the path crowded with souls behind my guide, and I felt pity, though their pain was justified. And here, even as Luke records for us that Christ, new, risen from his burial cave, appeared to two along his way. A shade appeared, and he advanced behind our backs while we were careful not to trample on the outstretched crowd. We did not notice him until he had addressed us with, God give you, oh, my brothers, peace. We turn at once. Then after offering suitable response, Virgil began and made that just tribunal, may that just tribunal, which has consigned me to eternal exile, place you in peace within the blessed assembly.

Jiang

Okay. So what's happening here is that Virgil and Dante are making their way up the mountain. Okay. And there's seven terraces and a soul has to clear all seven terraces before the soul can enter paradise. When a soul is able to complete the mission, the entire mountain shakes. Okay. And there's an earthquake to signal that a soul has been cleansed of all sins. It's now, it's now about to ascend. So there's a shade. Okay. Who is in a rush to ascend to heaven because he's cleared all seven terraces. And so he's going to rush to heaven. It's been 500 years. Um, and so he's, you know, and he, so he meets Virgil and Dante. They're in his way. And it's like, excuse me, please. I'm on my way. And Virgil was like, okay. Um, sure. All right. What?

Source

He exclaimed, as we move forward quickly, if God's not deems you worthy of ascent, who's guided you so far along the stairs. If you observe the signs, the angel traced upon this man, my teacher said, you'll see plainly. He's meant to reign with all the righteous, but since he, she who spins right and night and day had not yet spin spun to spool that clotho sets upon the dispatch to staff and adjust for everyone. His soul, the sister of your soul and mine in his ascent could not alone have climbed here for it does not see the way we see. Therefore, I was brought forth from hell's broad draws to guide him in his going. I shall lead him just as far as where I teach can reach. But tell me if you can, why just before the mountain shook and shouted, all of it, or so it seemed down to its sea bathed shore.

Participant

Okay.

Jiang

So the soul is confused because, um, if you reach this point in a mountain, then you're going to heaven. So you should be going as fast as possible. And then Virgil's trying to explain that actually, um, they are not part of purgatory. Okay. Keep on going.

Source

His question threaded. So the needle's eye of my desire, that just the hope alone of knowing left my thirst more satisfied. The other shade began. The sanctity of these slopes does not suffer anything that's without order or uncustomary. This place is free from every perturbation. What heaven from itself and in itself receives may serve as cause here. No thing else. Therefore, no rain, no hail, no snow, no dew, no hoarfrost falls here any higher than the stairs of entry. With their three, three brief steps, neither thick clouds, nor thin appear, nor flash of lightning. Thomas's daughter, who so often shifts place in your world is absent here. Dry vapor cannot climb any higher than to the top of the three steps of which I spoke, where Peter's viker plants his feet. Below that point, there may be small or ample tremors. But here above, I know not why. No one concealed in earth has ever caused a tremor.

Source

For it only trembles here when some soul feels it's cleansed, so that it rises or stirs to climb on high, and that shall follow.

Jiang

Okay, so the mountain only moves if a soul has been cleansed, okay?

Source

The will alone is proof of purity and fully free, surprises soul into a change of dwelling place.

Jiang

Okay, so this is a really important idea, right? So what's driving this cleansing is just the will. If you have the will, you can always achieve it. You can always leave heaven, okay? So people in inferno, the reason why they're there is they choose to be there. People in purgatory are there because they choose to be there as well. It may take you a long time, but if you have the will, you can always cleanse yourself of all your sins. God is all -forgiving. Okay, keep on going.

Participant

Soul had the will to climb before, but that will was opposed by longing to do penance as ones to sin, instilled by divine justice.

Jiang exchange

Okay, this is very important, okay guys? The issue is not that God has, not forgiven us. The issue is that we have not forgiven ourselves. You understand? We want to do penance in order to make ourselves worthy of God. Okay, keep on going.

Participant

And I, who have lain in the suffering five hundred years in war, just now have felt my free will for a better threshold. Thus, you heard the earthquake and the pious spirits throughout the mountain as they praised the Lord, and may He send them speedily upward. So did He speak to us, and just as joy is greater than sin, greater when we quench a greater thirst. The joy He brought cannot be told in words. In my wise guide, I now can see the net impeding you, how one slips through, and why it quakes here, and what makes you all rejoice. And now may it please you to tell me who you were, and in your words may I find why you've lain here for so many centuries.

Jiang exchange

Okay, so this is a really important correction to Virgil's understanding, okay? Virgil believes that a soul moves to whatever is beautiful. So obviously, if you're close to God, you want to go to God as soon as possible. But this person here is saying, no, that's not true, actually. The soul, yes, wants to move to God, but the soul is love. If you truly love God, you must first love yourself. That means cleansing yourself of all sins so that you are worthy to be with God, okay? So love seems to be also restraint and judgment. And this is very different from Virgil, who believes that love is incapable of restraint and judgment. Okay? It's love that tells you that, no, I must first forgive myself, because if I don't forgive myself, if I bring any doubt, any hatred, any sin to heaven, this will be unworthy of God. Okay? I must be the pearl that reflects the universe, and therefore I must be a perfect pearl.

Jiang source read-aloud

Okay, keep on going.

Source

In that age, when the worthy Titus, with help from the highest king, avenged the wounds from which the blood that Judas' soul had flowed, I had sufficient fame beyond. That spirit replied, I bore the name that lasts the longest and honors most, but faith was not yet mine. So gentle was the spirit of my verse that Rome drew me, son of Tullus, to her, and there my brow deserved a crown of myrtle. On earth my name is still remembered, Stadius. I sang of Thebes, and then of great Achilles. I fell along the way of that last labor. The sparks that warmed me, the seeds of my ardor, were from the holy fire, the same that gave more than a thousand poets light and flame. I speak of the Aeneid. When I wrote verse, it was mother to me, it was nurse. My work without it would not weigh in ounce. And to have lived on

Source

earth when Virgil lived, for that I would extend by one more year the time I owe before my exile's end.

Jiang

Okay, so Virgil is very impressed by this man, and so Virgil asks, who are you? And then the person says, my name is Stadius. Okay? You may not know who I am, but when Titus was alive, Titus was a Roman emperor who lived around 70 CE. This is important because Titus was the one who destroyed the temple, okay? The second temple of the Jews. Okay, so he's a very important figure in Christian mythology. And he's saying that during this time, and this is only like, you know, 40 years after the death of Jesus, and Jesus is not very well known at this point in history. Stadius says that I was a poet, okay? But he was a Latin poet. And who was my hero? Virgil. Okay? But not only is Virgil my hero, the Aeneid was my mother. She nursed me. She fed me. I aspire to be Virgil. I want to write the Aeneid.

Jiang exchange

Okay? So now what happens is, you have a paradox created, right? Where we just said that Virgil is in hell because he wrote the Aeneid and because he's proposing a theory of love that's not consistent with God. How is it possible that a son of his, a student of his, named Stadius, how is he able to ascend to heaven? Okay? This is really weird. It's a paradox. And we'll see a lot of paradoxes in the Latin comedy. Okay, keep on going.

Participant

These words made Virgil turn to me, and as he turned, his face, through silence, said, Be still. And yet the power of will cannot do all. For tears and smiles are both so faithful to the feelings that have prompted them that true feeling escapes the will that would subdue.

Jiang exchange

Okay, stop. Okay, all right. So you have this scene, right? Where Virgil and Dante are talking to Stadius. And Stadius doesn't know who they are. And having this conversation, and Virgil's saying to Stadius, Who are you? And Stadius is saying, I admire Virgil the most. And Dante is like, Oh my God! Wow! Virgil! And so Dante feels tremendous happiness for both Virgil and for Stadius. Virgil, because he's found a fan, and Stadius because he's found his mentor. What is strange, though, is Virgil's reaction. Virgil saying to Dante, Shut up, man. I know what you want to do. I know you want to tell him, but don't do it. Keep quiet. I don't want him to know who I am. This is a paradox. This is a paradox. Why would you do that? Also remember, Virgil has shown tremendous respect and admiration to Stadius for being able to cleanse himself of all his sins and to be able to ascend to heaven.

Jiang exchange

Right? So Dante is so confused by this that he doesn't actually respond to Virgil's command to shut up. Dante is actually going to tell Stadius that, Yes, this is Virgil, man. Keep on going.

Source

I know you're trying labor and successfully. Do tell me why, just now, your face showed me the flashing of a smile. Now I am held by one side and the other. One keeps me still. The other conjures me to speak. But when, therefore, I sigh, my master knows why and tells me, Do not be afraid to speak, but speak an answer where he has asked you to tell him with such earnestness. At this I answered, Ancient spirit, you perhaps are wondering at the smile I smiled, but I would have you feel like still more surprise. He who is guide, who leaves my eye on high, is that same Virgil from whom you derived the power to sing of men and of the gods. Do not suppose my smile had any source beyond the speech you spoke. Be sure. It was those words you said of him that were the cause. Now he had bent to kiss my teacher's feet, but Virgil told him, Brother, there is no need.

Source

You are a shade. A shade is what you see. And rising, he, now you can understand how much love burns in me for you when I forget our insubstantiality. Treating the shades as one treats solid things.

Jiang

Okay, all right. So sorry, I was wrong, okay? So Dante is sort of stuck, okay? Because he knows he wants to tell Stadius, but Virgil doesn't want him to tell Stadius. And then Dante looks at Virgil and Virgil says, fine, man. Go tell him, okay? And as you can see, Stadius is ecstatic. And he's so ecstatic that he forgets that he's actually just a shade. He has no body. So he goes down and he kisses Virgil's feet. And Virgil's like, stop this, man. You're just a shade. You're just a shadow. You can't actually kiss my feet. And so this shows both Stadius' excitement, but also shows Virgil's embarrassment. He's embarrassed by all this. He's mortified, in fact. He is so embarrassed by all this. And this is very confusing. You've got this huge fan, Stadius, and he's a great person, and he should be ecstatic about this. So why is he so mortified? And the logic is this, okay?

Jiang

Let's imagine that you guys take the great books of me, okay? And then you go on to America where you go to Harvard and become a professor of Dante. Okay? And then you come back, and I don't know that you're now teaching at Harvard and you're teaching Dante, but you come back, and I'm still here after 20 years, unfortunately. And you say to me, Professor Jiang, I want to take you out to lunch because you're such an inspiration. I was like, okay, sure. I'm very happy about this. And then I asked you, hey, where are you teaching now? And you say, Harvard. I'm like, okay, I need to go now. Guys, okay, see you later, okay? So this is what's happening here where status is supposed to be lower than Virgil. He's supposed to be Virgil's student, but how is it that status is able to transcend Virgil? Virgil's still stuck in limbo, but status is going to heaven, okay?

Jiang exchange

What happened? All right, keep on going.

Participant

Virgil began, Love that is kindled by virtue will, in another, find reply as long as that love's flame peers without. So from the time when juvenile descending among us in hell's limbo had made plain the fondness that you felt for me, my own benevolence towards you has been much richer than any ever given to a person one has not seen. Thus, now these stairs seem short. But tell me, and as friend, forgive me if excessive candor lets my reins relax, and as a friend, exchange your words with me. How was it that you found within your breast a place for avarice when you possessed the wisdom you had nurtured with such care?

Jiang exchange

Okay, so juvenile is another poet that's a contemporary of status. Okay, so this is really where status is able to ascend to heaven, but juvenile goes to limbo. Remember, limbo is a place not for bad people, it's for people who were born before Christ, or who never really acknowledged Christ, okay? So most people end up in limbo. And so Virgil's basically asked him, asking Thaddeus, how did you end up here in purgatory when you should be in limbo? This makes no sense to me, right? This is destroying Virgil's framework for the universe, where you have to believe in God, you have to swear allegiance to Christ in order to ascend to heaven. Okay, keep on going.

Source

These words at first brought something of a smile to Thaddeus. Then he answered, Every word you speak to me is a dear sign of love. Indeed, because true causes are concealed, we often face deceptive reasoning and things provoke perplexity in us. Your question makes me sure that you're convinced, perhaps because my circle was fifth, that in the life I once lived, avarice had been my sin. Know then that I was far from avarice. It was my lack of measure thousands of months have punished. And if I had not corrected my assessment by my understanding what your verses meant when you, as if enraged by human nature, exclaimed, Why can not you, O holy hunger for gold, restrain the appetite of mortals? I now, while rolling weights, know sorry josts. Then I became aware that hands might open too wide, like wings, in spending, and of this, as of my other sin, I did repent.

Jiang exchange

Okay, so he's saying, yes, I should be here because of avarice, but the issue is not avarice, okay? The issue is I don't really understand the universe. Okay, so it took me 500 years for me to truly understand the universe and my place in it. All right, keep on going. Sorry, let me, all right, sorry. Okay.

Source

How many are to rise again with heads cropped close, whom ignorance prevents from reaching repentance in and at the end of life? And know that when a sin is countered, by another fault, directly opposite to it, then here, both sins see their grain wither. Thus, I joined those who pay for avarice in my purgation, though what brought me here was prodigality, its opposite. Now, when you sing the savage words of those twin stars of Jocasta, said the singer of the Vukolic poems, it does not seem, from those notes struck by you and Cleo there, that you had yet turned faithful to the faith, without which righteous works do not suffice. If that is so, then what sun or what candles drew you from darkness so that, in their wake, you set your sails behind the fishermen?

Jiang exchange

Okay, so Virgil is confused by all this. Like, you're not a Christian. Why are you here? Keep on going.

Participant

And he to him, you were the first to send me to drink with him Parnassus' caves, and you, the first who, after God, enlightened me. He did as he who goes by night and carries the lamp behind him. He is of no help to his own self, but teaches those who follow. When you declared, the ages are renewed, just as in man's first time on earth return, from heaven a new progeny descends. Through you I was a poet and, through you, a Christian. But that you may see more plainly, I'll set my hand to color what I sketch. Disseminated by the messengers of the eternal kingdom, the true faith by then had penetrated all the world, and the new preachers preached in such accord with what you'd said, and I have just repeated, that I was drawn into frequenting them. Then they appeared to me to be so saintly that, when Domitian persecuted them, my

Participant

own laments accompanied their grief, and while I could, as long as I had life, I helped them, and their honest practices made me the staneful of all other sects.

Jiang exchange

Okay, so again, Virgil's asking Thaddeus, like, how are you here? You're not a Christian. And what Thaddeus is saying is like, yes, it's true that I never publicly converted to Christianity, but I was always sympathetic towards Christianity, and it's your book, The Iliad, in which made me convinced that Christianity is a good religion, okay? Through you, I was a poet, and through you, a Christian, right? But where he said that Virgil, Virgil's Iliad, goes against the teachings of the universe. So what this is telling us is that Thaddeus purposely misread Virgil. He loved Virgil for his poetry, but instead of believing Virgil, he, in his heart, chose to believe in himself, okay? He trusted his own intuition. And that's what saved him. All right. Keep on going.

Participant

Before, within my poem, I led the Greeks onto the streams of Phoebes, I was baptized. But out of fear, I was a secret Christian and, for a long time, showed myself as pagan. With this half -heartedness, for more than four centuries, I circled the fourth circle. And now may you, who lifted up the lid that hid from me the good of which I speak, while time has left us as we climb, tell me, where is our ancient Terence and Caclius and Plotus? Where is Varius, if you know? Tell me if they are damned, and in what quarter? All these and Perseus, I and many others, my guide replied, are with that Greek to whom the Muses gave their gifts in greatest measure. Our place is the blind prison, its first circle, and there we often talk about the mountain where those who are nurses always dwell.

Jiang exchange

Okay, stop. Okay, all right. So status is saying, I was a secret Christian, okay? So I was secretly baptized and I became a secret Christian. But if you're a secret Christian, are you really a Christian? So again, there are many ways that you can interpret this, okay? But obviously, this is a paradox. And this is confusing Virgil. And it's telling us that maybe everything that Virgil says is not correct, okay? This is actually suddenly, and with nuance, undermining the argument of Virgil, okay? All right, so now we are moving towards the final part of purgatory when Dante is able to ascend to the mountaintop where Beatrice will come and meet him, okay? Keep on going.

Participant

I have at times seen All the eastern sky becoming rose As day began and seen Its orange and will be blue The rest of heaven And seeing the sun's face Rise so veiled That it was tempered by the mist And could permit the eye To look at length upon it So, within a cloud of flowers That were cast by the angelic hands And then rose up and then fell back Outside and in the chariot A woman showed herself to me Above a white veil She was crowned with olive bows Her cape was green Her dress beneath flame red Within her presence I had once been used to feeling Trembling Wonder Dissolution But that was long ago Still, though my soul Now she was veiled Could not see her directly By way of hidden force That she could move I felt the mighty power of old love

Jiang exchange

Okay, so, Dante has not seen Beatrice in a long time, in decades. And his heart has loved Beatrice all his life. And so, he's really excited that Beatrice is before him, okay? His entire body is before him. His entire body shakes. And his first response is He wants Virgil to share in his happiness Because he owes everything to Virgil It's Virgil that brought him through inferno And brought him through purgatory So that he may finish his journey with Beatrice Okay? So that's what Dante wants He wants to share his happiness With his teacher, Virgil Keep on going

Participant

As soon as that deep forest had struck my vision The power of that When I had not yet left my boyhood Had already transfixed me I turned around and to my left Just as a little child Afraid or in distress Will hurry to his mother Anxiously To say to Virgil I am left with less than one drop of my blood That does not tremble I recognize the signs of the old flame But Virgil had deprived us of himself Virgil, the gentlest father Virgil, he to whom I gave myself for my salvation And even all our ancient mothers Their loss was not enough to keep my cheeks Though washed with dew From darkening again with tears

Jiang exchange

Okay, so he is extremely happy He's ecstatic to see Beatrice He turns to Virgil And he's just assuming that Virgil is beside him And he says And he wants to tell him how happy he is And then when he sees that Virgil is not there Virgil has disappeared He becomes despondent His ecstasy becomes A depression Okay, that's how high he's gone And that's how low he's fallen Because all he wants is to share his happiness With Virgil But Virgil has run away So this is a paradox again, okay The divine comedy is nothing but paradoxes Why did Virgil run away? Right? Okay This makes absolutely no sense First of all Virgil should be proud And happy For Dante, right? He loves Dante Dante wants to be with Beatrice again And Virgil made it happen You would think that he would want to see Dante and Beatrice together again Okay? That's one problem Another problem is

Jiang exchange

that Beatrice Was the one who asked Virgil To take Dante on this journey So Beatrice owes him a favor And you would think that Virgil can say Hey Beatrice I did you this favor So maybe you can do me a favor And like get me to heaven Right? This is like really strange And the third problem Is that This is like really awkward Okay? This is like really strange The least you can do is Basically say to Beatrice Listen I brought Dante here And now he's yours Okay, that's a polite thing to do And this is like not typical of Virgil So this leaves a huge question In our minds As to why Virgil did this Okay? Keep on going

Participant

Dante Though Virgil's leaving you Do not yet weep Do not weep yet You'll need your tears For what another sword must yet inflict Just like an admiral who goes stern And proud to see the officers Who guide the other ships Encouraging their tasks So on the left side of the chariot I turn around when I heard my name Which, of necessity, I transcribe here I saw the lady who had first appeared to me Beneath the veils of the angelic flowers Look at me across the stream Although the veil she wore

Jiang

Wait, stop, okay, all right, okay So what's even stranger As Beatrice is saying to Dante Virgil's gone? Forget him He's not important What's important is your mission in paradise Focus on that, Dante Let's forget Virgil All right? Let's forget him And this creates a huge paradox in our minds What is going on here? Why did Virgil run away? Okay? And again, you can interpret this As many ways as you want And there's no right or wrong answer But one interpretation is that Virgil is first and foremost He believes that He believes he is right He is in hell Because he believes that He should be there No one put him there He should put himself there And he believes he should be there Because God can only let in Those who are Christians Okay? And along the way We discover that's not actually true Cato, who is not a Christian Is a guardian of purgatory

Jiang

Statius, who is a secret Christian He's able to ascend to heaven So clearly Virgil's framework is wrong Virgil does not want to see Dante And Beatrice together again Okay? Because the relationship between Dante And Beatrice Is the opposite Of the relationship between Virgil And Dido Okay? Both are literary creations The difference is that Dante Put Beatrice into paradise Whereas Virgil put Dido into hell Right? In the inferno Dante believes that love Is fundamentally about giving Whereas Virgil believes that love Is fundamentally about receiving And conquering Okay? So these are two major dichotomies And Virgil does not want to see The power of Dante's love for Beatrice Where Beatrice rejected him Beatrice was never with him But Dante loved Kept on loving her Okay? Dante was willing to give He understood that living That true love Is about sharing Is about bestowing Is about giving yourself Whereas Virgil has always claimed that Love is about taking About consuming About controlling Okay?

Jiang

So that's why Virgil had to leave Because he did not want to be wrong Okay? He did not want his world view To be destroyed So he would rather burn in hell For eternity Than to say I am wrong Okay? Alright, any questions? Alright, so we will finish Divine Comedy next Wednesday