Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25

good morning welcome back so any questions from yesterday uh any questions or comments uh yes

hey uh i had this weird dream last night okay uh so so in the dream like we were discussing you were like doing compare and contrast uh between final fantasy 7 and the other like stories and all all of a sudden i was i was set on a journey to look for a answer right and and like like intuitively uh i'm sorry like i know i i i feel like there's a tree and and and i i knew like the tree probably has the answer that i'm looking for um and i found the tree right but between me and the tree there's like a huge lake or like a gigantic water yeah between me and the tree yeah and there's no way for me to reach the tree right yeah and so i'm standing there like gating the tree i'm like i'm trying to figure out like figure out a way to to to get

to the tree and and then like as i as i'm gating the tree and i realized the reflection of the tree it's like a it's like more vivid than the tree itself the reflection of the tree on the water right and as if the reflection of the tree is it's talking to me and i heard this voice uh and he and he said uh stop looking outward start looking inward and i'm always with you and then i opened my eye and woke up and the first thought that came to my mind is about so below and i'm still thinking about it yeah yeah i just want to share this yeah that's

beautiful dream and actually it's very interesting first of all how vivid the dream is how you're able to remember it so clearly and vividly that's pretty rare with dreams second of all what's really interesting is like when dante ascends purgatory higher he's gonna have a vision very similar to your vision yes where they're going to go meet a tree and the tree's going to talk to them and um it's very interesting why this happens does anyone want to try to interpret his dream try to try to think like why this is happening he see he sees a tree and he thinks this tree is his goal but there's a river that blocks access to the tree so instead he sees a reflection and this reflection talks to him okay that's a very vivid dream and this is something that actually dante it's a vision that dante would have and we'll see a vision very similar

to this in as we climb up mount purgatory so what is this dream about uh yes

i would just do a simple interpretation from lines that i remember that we read i remember there was a line where it said that the seed was more than the plant that grows in the end yes and so maybe it's a reference that it has to grow within you and you can't seek out the finished plant and then another line was that um god's will is on the other side of a river that no human can so maybe it's like the flow of time the flow of change and that you're so tempted to look on the other side of the bank but really you just have to stay on your side and try and think about it

for yourself yeah yeah yeah that's great interpretation so um in purgatory uh dante uses the metaphor plant a lot okay and usually refers to family so when he says plant and seed it means just because you're born as family does that does not actually uh confine your fate your family you're still independent of this family okay the seed and the plant are not the same thing okay but he uses the um metaphor plant a lot to describe uh family and also plant of course also refers to the tree of knowledge and so the idea is we should be condemned to original sin right just because of what adam and eve did okay so so plant is a very important uh metaphor to plant and tree are very important metaphors in purgatory any other thoughts or interpretations okay so as you read divine comedy the um the interpretation will become a lot more clear okay all

right so i want to begin today's class by talking about uh yes yes i have a

question about the logistics of purgatory yes and um we have people moving up but let's use picarda as an example so picarda moved through purgatory and then ended up in her spot um so

picarda actually went straight to heaven yeah she didn't actually go for purgatory because she she lit she lived a sinless life right she was without sin she was without blame so because i was under

the impression that maybe elijah and hila who um they went straight to heaven they went straight to heaven yes but everybody else even everybody else has some sort of sin and so they went through purgatory but okay so picard is a bad example but anybody else um who's going to extend through purgatory are they going to snap instant end up in their part of paradiso that they expect or i didn't get any idea that we moved through paradiso also that's that's that that's a great

question okay so the idea is there's certain individuals who go straight to heaven right these include mary um rachel roof um beatrice and so the um but in paradise there is a hierarchy as well the hierarchy um is really your proximity to god and this is determined by your understanding your faith your willingness to be by god okay so the people who are closest to god of course are people who see or seated in the red rose um and so the question then is okay let's figure out this if you ascend for purgatory um what determines your place in heaven well it'll be the same criteria right because purgatory it's meant to purge you of your sins but once you're purged of your sins then what remains is your understanding of god your faith in god and your willingness to be to be a nerd god and picarda she did she did lead a sin

in heaven and the Polyglass was the only church in this life but it was one about um real faith right so it was kind of passive and that that showed a limited understanding of god that showed limited faith that's that showed limited um willingness to be god so she did she like she got she under yale so she did all everything required checked all the boxes but she's basically like the worst student at yale because she's not willing to take the hardest classes you know living off the brown middle school again being so Turns out that was different. uh she you know she's not really pushing herself to her limit okay does that make sense okay all right all right so let's talk about the schematics of um the divine comedy so we know from paradise because we had paradise first that um ultimately the end goal of the universe is for us to co

-create with god how through faith uh hope and love and what we also discuss is that faith it's really about imagination right you have to imagine that god exists you have to imagine that god is all loving all generous all merciful you have to imagine that you have a special divine mission on earth okay this is all things that you cannot prove you just have to imagine them you have to believe them okay that's the idea of faith then hope is one of the arrogance which is to say like i matter what what i do on this earth matters and and i can get nobody right it doesn't matter i still have responsibility to um love those around me to seek justice uh to be generous with others okay so think of rachel who didn't really do much but because um because when presented with a choice right leah had already married uh jacob she

still chose to love jacob and marry him and like endure the pain of being with her sister for the rest of her life okay so that's the idea of hope and then love is one of action okay if you truly love someone then you will pray for this person for all of eternity okay so that's that's the gree grand um thesis that donnie is presenting a truly good life that is that draws you closer to god is one of faith hope and love and this counters the traditional understanding of what these terms met historically as presented by paul and augustine right um faith is one of compliance don't question things just believe things hope is one of humility you are saved by the grace of god there's nothing you can do to change your fate just just be humble before god and then you will ascend to heaven and love is really one of obedience

to obey the church to to be a sheep and let the church be the shepherd okay so again this framework um um subverts the traditional church teachings when we went to inferno what we appreciated is that the nine circles of hell are designed in a way as to promote these ideas on earth and to punish those who subvert these ideas and to punish those who subvert these these ideas okay so as you remember the nine circles are limbo um lust um gluttony greed and anger okay so these five are outside the capital of hell this so they're not that serious okay and then within this um there's heresy violence fraud and then treachery okay and these are the nine and again it makes sense because um these four disrupt others capacity to practice faith love and hope okay so right now we completely understand what's going on we get to purgatory their problems okay because

there's seven terrorists now and these seven terrorists are and these seven terrorists are pride envy sloth um greedKyrie pride envy sloth um greedkyrie now there could be research on these issues realy not big ask me that big is the question of who I want to be framed for um is it uh wrath uh lust and then there's gluttony okay actually you know what i i think i can't screw this up i i think i i i anyway um it doesn't matter okay all right so what we also discuss is that um there are certain punishments that just would replicate themselves in hell okay so for example there's no there's no circle of envy but the punishment is to be blindfolded to to be blind basically your eyes are shut and you have to hold on to other people in order to get around okay you have to depend on other people to get around and

this um is punishment for trying to for envying other people okay because before you saw yourself as separate from other people now you're completely dependent on other people okay um and in hell it'd be the same thing but is like the results will be different because in purgatory because they're dependent because they're trying to seek redemption they're trying to push themselves on their envy they're actually working together okay and they're looking inward to be a better person whereas in hell if this were the same situation then they would not work together they push each other around and they would all imagine that each is better than then then the rest of because you're blind they can't see that they're actually the same they would go they would go crazy okay they would be very angry so the question for us is how would this system further this system okay do you understand there's a totality

there's a unity a coherence to this Dante cosmology I'm trying to figure out the logic of this I understand why you'd be punished for disrupting this system but how would this actually help us get out of this system and how would this actually help us get out of this system okay all right so um so before I do that I just wanted to um basically summarize what the punishment so for pride um uh you have to learn humility right so what happens is like you are like stones are put on top of you and you have to like crawl okay so you're always um humbled okay uh for sloth you you're you're forced to run around a lot okay you're active you're running around run a lot for greed you're crawling okay why you're crawling because before on Earth you were so greedy you wanted power right so you're always ascending but as punishment now

you are crawling uh with Raph what happens is you're blinded by smoke and the idea is that your anger blinds you right and so you have to learn to see with your heart um gluttony is you basically starve you're starving uh lust is that you're burning you're you're you're burned by a flame okay so uh this is the structure of purgatory and I want to figure out why it's like this how would constructing a system like this purgatory help advance the larger goal of ensuring that everyone lives a life of faith um hope and love any suggestions so first of all is it easy to get into purgatory yeah it's pretty easy okay there are lots of ways you you can get into purgatory okay so one is to repent at the last minute right you can live a life of total sin but the very last minute you're like I see God okay that's

one way a little way is if you do an act of charity an act of goodness in your life once okay that goes against the church which is like if you do an act of sin once you're screwed over here it's like no you do an act of good once and then you're saved um your family members could pray for you right um there are lots of ways to get into into purgatory so one that can so one um really interesting thing about purgatory you said it's easy to get into it's easy to get into hard to advance okay does that make sense like anyone can go to purgatory but to graduate you have to like work really hard and it could take you a million years okay that's a first characteristic about purgatory okay the second is what else about what's another distinct characteristic about about purgatory that that's important for us to appreciate

uh yes that if people pray for you then you serve like uh less time exactly okay people's prayers matter okay so you have to figure out who prays for you right and we we discussed yesterday I might have like 10 million fans they're gonna pray for me for all of eternity when I'm on stage right because thatoplays out have like 12 million fans it's not gonna make me I just need 10 million fans though when i die first trying to pray for my y way out of pur Instant bulk outro now goes into März in a minute member i sent this question to paramillonian terry Felix i really wounded interfere and I just don't know fair die okay so i better treat my kids and my parents and my neighbors my friends well because they might pray for me but not my fans okay um so that's really important to appreciate uh did you have

a that you can't look back otherwise you'll go right back to the beginning yes okay you have to have conviction and devotion okay yes the moment you go in you have to commit yourself to complete cleansing yourself the moment you doubt you're out you're out of there okay uh yes no i was gonna say the same thing okay all right okay so again there's some some uh any other

characteristic about purgatory yes uh just a question because you said uh if you don't have the conviction you get out of there but i thought in one of the last classes you said everyone who

gets into purgatory get out no no no no i said if you get into purgatory you can now have the opportunity to go to heaven right but that doesn't mean you go i'm actually having because it's hard to graduate right excuse me but eventually but as long as you maintain your conviction right the moment you're like you know i don't want to do this anymore then you're kicked out okay all right any more interesting characteristics about purgatory yes it requires

cycles of self -reflection and inward look so the traveling by day only ascending by

light yes that's right that's right the self -reflection is very important is there a hierarchy to purgatory there's a hierarchy to hell and heaven right which is a hierarchy to purgatory there's really no hierarchy right do you understand there's really no it isn't saying like oh this like the higher you go the worse the sin or or like the least the sin okay it's all equal so what happens is rather than doing all seven terraces you just do one terrace you fulfill your you purge your sin and then you go straight to heaven okay so you just assign to one um terrace and then that's that's good enough okay so there's it's just basically uh uh no hierarchy okay all right so so explain to me why purgatories construct the way it is and again we need to remember like there's a unity a totality to divine comedy and so all three have to line

up perfectly right so we've been in paradise we know what paradise is about we've been to hell we don't we know what hell is about explaining what purgatory is about yes well one thing it does it um inverses the sins of

inferno or hell because lust is uh at the very first in inferno but it's at the very top in

purgatory yeah it's really weird this way right there's an inversion going on right yeah no the structure is very clever this way where in In Inferno, the four sins, lust, gluttony, greed, anger, they're inverted in Purgatory. Why would he do that? Yes?

You're up the layer of the Purgatory, you're closer to heaven, so the sin is not as severe as the ones at the bottom layers.

That's interesting. Okay. That's an interesting idea. Huh. But I don't understand why, oh yeah, you're right, actually, yeah, this does make sense, yes, right, okay. So there is a hierarchy, I'm wrong, okay, yeah, because you're closer to heaven, and then this is like further from heaven. You're right. No, no, you're right, okay. Yes, there is a hierarchy, like the higher you go, the less serious the sin, yes. Yes?

And it's very interesting that the punishment is kind of the same except it's the attitude of the partaker. So then it's all about attitude, and it's all matching.

Right, right, so I'm trying to figure out, but why, okay, we're trying to figure out the logic of this structure. Okay, so whenever we encounter a situation where we're trying to figure something out, okay, what we always want to do is figure out the counterfactual, you understand, okay? So let's do the counterfactual, let's just say, we don't do it this way, and we just do it the way the Catholic Church wants to do it, right? Okay, this is Purgatory. Someone explain to me what is being taught about Purgatory at this point in history.

Okay, yes? That you'll be punished until you repent, and that it's like hell, but you suppose that you will feel bad enough that eventually you'll turn to God because it's so unhappy to be there.

Okay, explain to me who gets into hell? Who gets into Purgatory? Who gets into Purgatory, according to the Catholic Church, at this time in history, by the year 1300?

I think you can basically buy your way into Purgatory through money or good deeds. Yes, you understand.

So what's really important to understand is the Church determines who goes to Purgatory, okay? Right, that's number one. Number two is, for indulgences, the Church can also determine how long you stay in Purgatory. Do you understand? So what Purgatory really is, is a back door into heaven. So you really screwed up, but you're a trillionaire, and you're like, well, you know what, I'll give you $200, and the Church is like, fine, then we'll give you a back door into heaven, okay? And as long as your family continues to pay us off, then we'll lessen your time in Purgatory. Do you understand? So at this time in history, Purgatory, it's really a back door. That's part one, okay? What else about Purgatory at this point in history?

Do you guys remember? Yes? I remember a lot of fire in the imagery. Like, there's just a lot of burning. So the purging is like how you extract finer metals from ore and bad substances.

Okay, so what's really important to appreciate is that before Dante, heaven, hell, Purgatory, they were not actually fleshed out, okay? What's genius about Dante is that he actually does flesh out the mouth. He's a world maker, he's a world builder, but before that, hell, Purgatory, and heaven were just concepts, right? So in Augustine's City of God, he will say that what heaven is, is every day you're seeing with God, okay? Which is a great image, but it's a concept. It's not a world, whereas Dante will actually build the world, okay? So I'm just saying, like, conceptually, how is Purgatory being described at this time in history? The first is, like, it's really a back door. You're into heaven, all right? It's an escape clause. You should be burning in hell, but if you give us your $200, we'll put you in Purgatory, okay? Who else is in Purgatory? Infants, right? Okay, infants. So another way of saying this is, like, this is a theological loophole.

Do you guys understand the idea where if I can't actually explain something using heaven and hell, Purgatory, okay? Well, I can't explain babies who die, right? Because they're innocent, but they weren't baptized, so they can't belong in hell, but they don't belong in heaven either, so Purgatory, okay? Do you guys understand what's going on? If there's ever a special case, like, I don't know what's going on, Purgatory, right? So at this time in history, Purgatory is not really developed, okay? And in reality, Purgatory is only, like, very special cases. But what Dante does is he turns Purgatory into another. A world equal to that of hell and heaven, right? And at this time in history, most people aren't even thinking of Purgatory. Because you can't be that rich to buy people a place in Purgatory, right? You have to be rich. You have to provide indulgences in order to get your relative into Purgatory.

And so this doesn't apply to most people, right? So explain to me what the difference is now. Yes?

To tie it all together, I think the fundamental message of Dante... Dante in the Divine Comedy is on the heaven side, right? It's unity, it's faith, hope, and love. Fundamentally, God is love, right? So that's a very simple message. And then you try to break it down. As you try to break it down, I guess what I take Purgatory to mean is that no matter which stage of Purgatory you're in, there's a fundamental lesson to be learned. And if you learn that lesson, it doesn't matter where you are at in Purgatory. You would be with self -reflection, with prayer. With self -conviction, you'd be able to learn that fundamental truth and propel yourself up to heaven. So I guess in my mind, that ties it all together. Whereas in hell, you're not learning, right? There's no growth mindset, right? So the real distinction is between hell, like the extremes of hell and heaven. Purgatory is just the process.

Okay, all right. So let's just list the differences, okay? The difference between this and this is... First of all, it's democratic. It means anyone, everyone participates in this system. Purgatory was designed for special cases. Now it's like anyone, everyone can participate, okay? If you're poor, you can still pray for your loved one in Purgatory, right? Before, if you were poor, you were screwed because you didn't have money to grab the church. So first of all, it's democratic where everyone can participate, okay? That's point one. Point two is that it's really hopeful, right? Where no matter how bad a person you are, as long as you are willing to repent, or as long as someone really loves you, or you in the past did someone a good favor, you would still be granted access to Purgatory, okay? So it's hopeful. Whereas at this time in history, the Catholic Church teaches you not to have any hope, okay?

Don't have hope. Just believe in God, yes?

And it's also action -based rather than having to pay money or... Exactly, okay?

So yeah, so it incentivizes action, right? Whereas this system, it's really about obedience, right? It incentivizes obedience. Obey what the church says and you'll be granted Purgatory. Here it's individual action, right? And the other thing is that this is a much more merciful and just system. Does that make sense, right? Because before the idea was only a few people could access heaven. Now it's like anyone, everyone can access heaven. But you have to work hard, okay? So this is a radically different conception of Purgatory. Explain why this has to be the case. Why does it have to be democratic, hopeful, in terms of action, and it has to be merciful and just in order for this to be unified, yes?

It's consistent with his cosmology that God is love. Because if it's not democratic, not everyone can participate. It's only for the elite or the rich. Then the kingdom of heaven is not for the poor, like Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount. Exactly. And so... Yeah. Everything has to confirm to that.

That's right. Yes.

Yeah, that's also what I wanted to say. And to add on to that, I feel like for these different layers within Purgatory, it's also separated by no love at the bottom, which is like pride and then like whatever. And then like going upwards is like not enough love. Like, I don't know, like envy and etc. And at the end, it's like too much love. Yes. Than what you're supposed to have. That's right.

Exactly. You're right. Exactly. Right. So, it's structured the way it is because this, the last four, okay, it's really like misdirection of love, right? Either too much or too little love. Yes. Great. All right. Anyone else? Yes.

Can we say the ego dissipates as we go up? So, pride, you're loving yourself. And by the end, greed, gluttony, and lust, you're loving the thing. Yes. And so, you're getting less and less of yourself.

Yes. Exactly. That's great. Yes. Yes.

Going back to the Beatitudes, this would be how the Beatitudes would work because the church almost at that time supports that.

Right. Right. Exactly. Yes. Any other thoughts or comments?

Yes. I'm going back to a comment a really smart person told me yesterday. Like, why does envy exist? Right? Like somebody, one of our classmates commented that it's actually pretty simple for you to get rid of envy if you're sufficiently smart enough, right? So, I'm looking at all these things in purgatory and I'm realizing, like, it's one and the same. Like, in some sense, all these challenges that we have in purgatory is because of the lack of love and the lack of compassion and the lack of imagination, right? So, if we can, you know, overcoming one is equivalent to overcoming all of them.

Yes. I just went off.

Thank you. Yes. I've started to think about the whole structure a little bit like physically structured, like a Christmas cracker. Yes. Where, like, there's a handle on either side and one up one way and one the other way. And that the middle section is like a even cylinder and the other two sections are like mountains or in the top case, like a V.

Yes.

And so, I think this kind of explains how there's a hierarchy, but no hierarchy. Yes. That none of them are better than the other. But I want to ask if you think that pride is the most fundamental of the seven deadly sins. It's like the father of sins.

Pride. Huh. Okay. Can you, do you have an answer?

Well, I think it's like the bedrock of the other sins because it's what fundamentally stops you from dealing with your faults. I guess it's like the bad form of arrogance.

Explain to me why pride leads to laziness, Slav.

Because you believe your innate ability requires less action and energy to achieve your goals than the truth, than in reality. But I don't really understand how pride would give you wrath or pride would give you gluttony. I mean, it just seems like the basis for misdirection.

Right. Yeah. So, um, so Donnie would not say pride. He would say ego, right? It's the ego. That's the basis of everything. So the ego is basically how do you perceive yourself? You take yourself seriously, right? What do you think your role in the universe is? How much agency do you have? So the main thing undergirding everything, okay, is the idea of free will. You guys understand this? Yes. Yes. This cosmology is constructed the way it is to ensure maximum free will, okay? This entire structure is designed so like at every point you have to believe you have a choice. Never ever must you believe that this is God's will. There's nothing I can do about it, okay? Donnie's trying to eliminate that possibility. So the cosmology is constructed in a way like you can reason everything out and appreciate that it's your choice. Not God's choice, okay? Does that make sense? That's the real purpose of this cosmology.

To convince you it's always your choice. It's always your free will. Everything that happens is because of what you do. Okay?

Yes? Would this kind of be in contradiction to people like Anselm at the time who were really interested in describing how God was outside of time and that somehow his will was already in the universe?

That's right. That's right. So again, most theologians, I would say every theologian would say that's just absurd. Like if we have all free will, what's the function of God in the universe, right? What is God doing? I mean we can't, I mean like it would be so arrogant to think that we can do whatever we want, right? So this goes against church theology. But this again is why this is a radical revolutionary poem for its time. It's not so radical for us. But for the year 1300, this is revolutionary idea. Like God is pure love. Pure love is to gift you free will and free choice. And the entire cosmology is designed to ensure maximum agency, maximum free will. Okay? Does that make sense guys? All right. All right. Let's go to candle 15 and I want to do as much as possible today. Okay? Because this is the. Last two days. Okay.

Believe it or not, we've been doing this for a long time, right?

10 days.

10 days. Okay. And how long does it feel to you guys? Does it feel like a long time? Okay.

Yes. Just a comment because I remember I read this in that same manly people piece, but he summarizes the sins of purgatory, I think quite nicely. And he says that the first three sins. Are the effect of love perverted. The last three profane love excessive and the middle one sloth is loved effective.

That's right. Exactly. Yes. Okay. Exactly. So it has to do all has to do with love. Great. Thank you so much. Okay. Also, I want to apologize to everyone like not learning your names. I'm terrible names and I knew that there was going to be some shifting over the course of these. Um, um, two weeks, but now it's second last day, I want to learn your names. I want to get to know you better. Okay. All right. So, um, when I call on you, please, please let you let me know your name. All right. So this is, um, candle 15. Okay.

As many as the hours in which the sphere that's always playing like a child appears from day break to the end of the third hour. So many were the hours of light still left before the course of day had reached sunset. Vespers was there and where we are midnight. When sunlight struck directly at our faces for we had circled so much of the mountain that now we headed straight into the west. Then I could feel my vision overcome by radiance greater than I'd sensed before and unaccounted things left me amazed at which that they might serve me as a shade. I lifted up my hands above my brow to limit some of that excessive splendor as when a ray of light from water or mirror leaps in the post direction rises at an angle equal to its angle of descent. And to each. Side the distance from the vertical is equal as science and experiment have shown.

So did it seem to me that I had been struck there by light reflected facing me at which my eyes turned elsewhere rapidly. Kind father, what is that against which I have tried in vain? I said to screen my eyes. It seems to move toward us. And he replied, don't wonder if you're still dazzled by the family of heaven. A messenger has come and he invites us to ascend soon in the sight of such things, there will be no. Difficult. For you, but delight as much as nature fashioned you to feel no sooner had we reached the blessed angel than with glad voice. He told us enter here. These are less steep than where the other stairs.

So what's happening is that now and then Donnie is getting blinded. Why? Because an angel that is so radiant is coming down and to basically remove a P from his forehead and allow him to send further. And it seems like. Doc Virgil knows. All this, right? You don't have the paradox here where Virgil, he is a pagan and he has been in limbo all his life, but he knows all how all this works. He knows the entire structure of purgatory as well as infernal. Why is this the case?

Yes, because he had the divine spark in him of the poet. That's right. And then he chose to pervert.

That's exactly right. Okay. So this is something that you guys must appreciate. All poets are prophets. All prophets are poets. Jesus was a poet. You read his quotations in the Bible. It's poetry. Okay. Yes.

Then why doesn't Dante know the way?

Excuse me?

Why doesn't Dante know the way? Because Dante is also a poet.

Who says he doesn't know the way?

He keeps asking questions.

Okay. Let's think. Let's think about this. Okay. Why does he? So let's just assume Dante is a poet. He knows everything. What does he need Virgil to guide him? Explain this to me. Yes.

I think people do this for themselves. Like when you talk to yourself, it's similar to that where you need an outside other entity to try and talk to you. And it's like your inner voice is giving you instructions. So you need to give that. So you need to give that as an inner voice of being and a body of some kind so that it stops you against pride or arrogance, that it's you doing it.

Yeah. So, I mean, if you go to the gym, everyone knows how to work out, right? Like you just watch YouTube videos, and it'll tell you exactly how to work out. Why do you need a trainer? Right. Is a trainer going to really add knowledge to your routine? Probably not. But your trainer is just going to tell you, like, just focus, right? That's all the trainer says. Focus, focus, focus. That's what Virgil is doing. He's just saying, focus, focus, focus, right? All right. Does that make sense? So Dante would not be on this journey unless he was a poet, unless he were a poet, okay? Keep on going.

Line 37. We climbed already past that point. Behind us we heard beati misericordes, sung and then rejoiced, you who have overcome. I and my master journeyed on alone. We two together upward as we walked. I thought I'd gather profit from his words. And even as I turned toward him, I asked, what did the spirit of Romagna mean when he said, sharing cannot have a part? And his reply, he knows the harm that lies in his worst vice. If he chastises it to ease its expiation, do not wonder. For when your longing center on things such that sharing them apportions less to each, then envy stirs the bellows of your sighs. But if the love within the highest sphere should turn your longings heavenward, the fear inhabiting your breast would disappear. For there, the more there are who should say ours, so much the greater is the good possessed by each. So much more love burns in that cloister.

I'm more hungry now for satisfaction, I said, than if I'd held my tongue before. I host a deeper doubt within my mind. How can a good that's shared by more possessors enable each to be more rich in it than if that good had been possessed by few? And he to me, but if you still persist in letting your mind mix on earthly things, then even from true light, you gather darkness. The good, ineffable and infinite, which is above, directs itself toward love, as light directs itself to polished bodies. Where ardor is, that good gives of itself, and where more love is there, that good confers a greater measure of eternal worth. And when there are more souls above love, there's more to love well there, and they love more a mirror, like each soul reflects the other. And if my speech has not appeased your hunger, you will see Beatrice. She will fulfill this and all other longings, that you feel.

Now only strive, so that the other five wounds may be canceled quickly, as the two already are. The wound's contrition heals.

Okay, so Virgil is just telling us what we'll learn in paradise, right? Like the unifying force of the universe is love. The more we love, the more God glows in us. And so if we turn away from material obsessions, then we will recognize this and we will create more and more love in the world. So love can be infinite, but wealth has to be finite, okay? Um, okay. Keep on reading.

Line 82. But wanting then to say, you have appeased me. I saw that I had reached another circle, and my desire in eyes made me peace. There I see him suddenly to be caught up in an ecstatic vision, and to see some people in temple. And a woman just as the threshold in the gentle manner that mothers use, was saying, oh my son, why have you done this to us? You can see how we have sought you, sorrowing your father, and I. And at this point, as she fell still, when it appeared, then there appeared to me another woman upon her, tears that grieve the stills when it is born of much scorn for another. She said, if you're ruler of that city to name which even goddesses won't fly, where every science had its source of light, revenge yourself on the presumptuous arms that embrace our daughters. Oh, pisistratus, and her lord seems to me benign and loyal.

His aspect tempered as he replied, what shall we do to one who injure us, if we do not love him? What shall we do to one who injure us, if we do not love him? What shall we do to one who loves us, earns our condemnation? Next I saw people whom the fire -wrath had kindled, so they stoned at youth, and kept on shouting loudly to each other, kill, kill, kill. I saw him now, weighed down by death, sink to the ground, although his eyes were bent, but were always on heaven. They were heaven's gates, praying to his high lord, despite the torture, to pardon those who were his persecutors. His look was such that it enveloped compassion. And when my soul returned outside itself, and met the things outside it, that are real, I then recognized my God's false error.

Okay, stop, okay, all right. So, there are three stories here, okay? The first story is from the Gospel of Luke, where Mary and Joseph, they lose Jesus when Jesus is 12. And why? Do you guys remember the Gospel of Luke? Where's Jesus when he's 12 years old? Yes, sorry, what was your name?

I'm Anna. Yes. So he went to the temple to debate or argue with or teach the, rabbis, the teachers of the law, and they were amazed by his genius. That's right. And then it was at the end of a wedding feast, so the parents were probably busy with a guest, and then they couldn't find him, and they found him finally. Yeah, where are you?

Yeah, so this is a story from the Gospel of Luke, and you can imagine how angry Mary is at him, right? It's like, you know, you had us worried, we thought you were lost, but it turned out, no, there's nothing to worry about. There's nothing to be angry about. Jesus is just being Jesus, okay? The second story, comes to us from Athens, where the wife of the ruler of Athens is angry that, like, a man is chasing their daughter and begging her for marriage. And the wife is like, how presumptuous this man is. He is beneath us, so we should punish him. And then, the king, why are we punishing someone who flatters us, right? Isn't he flattering us? He's telling us that he wants our daughter in marriage? And if people who are nice to us, we punish, then people who are mean to us, what do we deal with, okay?

All right, so it shows the ignorance of wrath, of anger. And the last example is also from the Bible, the story of Saint Stephen, who is stoned to death for idolatry by the Jews in Jerusalem. He was the first martyr of the Christian tradition. You will find this in the Acts of the Apostles. And rather than be angry, what Stephen does is pray for their forgiveness, okay? All right, so these are three examples of how to deal with wrath, okay? Understanding and forgiveness. What are these things? How does God see these things? Excuse me? But I'm saying, like, how does he actually see these things?

Yes? Kind of like the artworks, maybe, of prior times. It's similar to the artwork, right?

But are these artworks?

These are movies, kind of, like visions, because they disappear after a while.

No, no, like, but how does he see them? Before, how did he have his visions? Dream. Dreaming was the first, right? Then it was the artwork, right? Now what's happening?

It's like the ecstatic visions of Saint Teresa. These are daydreams.

You guys understand. He's actually seeing them as he walks, all right? This is like lucid daydreaming. How does this happen, okay? We understand how dreams work. We understand how artwork works, right? We spend all the time discussing artwork. But how does this work? You just have visions. Like, you're just walking through. Wow, like, I have this image in my head, right? Yes? Oh, sorry, so what's your name?

Fred. Fred, okay, yes? Um... I guess it's like reflected light. I don't want to say, like, psychedelics, but the cantos kind of start where he's saying, I'm trying to cover my eyes, but the light's bouncing in no matter what. So it's kind of like, it's impossible for him not to see it. The mechanism is very mysterious, I still think, though.

Okay, it's possible, okay? But that makes no sense. Reflected light, doesn't it blind you? I mean, I guess it blinds him, and then he has these visions, right? But again, like, where are these visions coming from? We understand the artwork, we understand the dreams. The dreams is from heaven, yes?

Um, maybe it's just imagination, but it's another level. It's a higher level of imagination.

Anyone else? It is definitely imagination, but I'm like, I'm trying to figure out how this works. Okay, so we will spend a lot of time discussing this idea, okay? So we're trying to figure out how the mind, the mind works today, okay? And who studies psychology? Okay, you study psychology, right? How do we have memories? Tell us.

It's like the short -term and long -term memories, and so there's a transfer between, so first you have the knowledge that's going into your brain, and it sucks, like, very shortly, and then through a process of rethinking of it, so basically it's very, like, loose memory, in the short -term, and then it goes to the long -term, and you need to work on it back and forth for it to strengthen.

Okay, right. So what is your name?

Franco.

Franco, okay. Okay, so let me explain the neuroscience, okay? What neuroscientists believe how memory works. Okay, so the idea is you have, in the beginning, okay, short -term memory. The short -term memory is filtered through your senses, into long -term memory, and how the memory is then dealt with is that it's divided into categories, determined by emotions. Okay, do you understand? So if the emotion is anger, it goes in the anger box. If it's happy, it goes in the happy box, and then if it's sad, it goes in the sad box, okay? It's basically just emotions. So all your memories are categories. They're categorized by their emotional value. And then based on the order of your emotions, this then leads to your worldview or your identity. And then that becomes part of your senses, which then determines what memories you remember, what memories you don't remember, okay? So in other words, first of all, you only remember things that have emotional value.

And that's why in school, you actually don't remember what you learned in the classroom, but you remember a lot what you do to your friends, okay? Yes?

Two types where there is one linked to emotions and one like only to knowledge, but it's right, it's harder to remember it.

That's right, that's right.

But there is two categories.

You're gonna use brute force to... Yeah, yeah.

Okay, yeah, exactly, okay? And because there's no recall also, then it's just hard to remember it. Yes. If you learn math and you never think of math and... That's right, okay, all right.

So, yeah, so the memories are divided into emotional values. You remember what has emotional value unless you use brute memorization to remember useless facts, like mathematics, okay? And the entire point is to develop your worldview. And why is worldview important? Because it tells you your place in society, right? It tells you who you are and what your relationship is with other people. It helps you navigate, okay? So, really, this entire system is designed for us to be social animals, to interact with others, to work with others, to compete with others, okay? All right, so, yes?

I'm Andy.

Hi, Andy.

So, in this process, would you call the unconscious, like, uncategorized things that are seeping into our dreams, or would you call it, like, the divine speaking to us?

Okay, yeah. So, again, this is neuroscience, okay? They do divide between a conscious and a subconscious, right? Subconscious. The conscious is this decision -making, whereas subconscious determines our action, okay? So, what neuroscientists say is, like, we are conscious robots, okay? We have absolutely no control of ourselves, but we think we do, okay? We just rationalize our actions, but it's the emotions that determine our actions, okay? So, who you are is your subconscious, not really your conscious. Who you think you are is not really who you are, okay? So, this is from neuroscience. Are we clear about this, okay? Um... This creates a lot of problems, right? Because obviously, you're, like, okay, if this is the case, where does the imagination come from? And how is it that people like Dante and Virgil and Shakespeare, they're able to create characters that are realistic and which is not part of their emotional experience? Like, how does that work, right?

If everything is stored in your brain and you can only know what you experience, then how... How does Dante... Conte, no Virgil. Does that make sense? Yes?

I'm just going along with the neuroscience explanation. Neuroscience would say that they're able to simulate these characters in their kind of own networks and talk to them, talk to the simulation. Okay. Yes?

It's going a bit far, but you can, I think you can, I've never read of it, but you can prime yourself with imagination. And if you look and read a lot of books, look at art, then just it opens your mind into creating stuff. And maybe the more you see new things, then the more you're able to create stuff. Okay.

I understand. Okay. But all you're telling me is like Virgil is a projection of Dante, right? Virgil exists within Dante's larger imagination. But what we're doing is we're reading the divine comedy and we see Virgil as a completely different person from Dante with his own consciousness. He has his own contradictions, with his own worldview, right? And if you read Shakespeare, you also have people like that in Shakespeare. You have Hamlet, you have, they are all characters are distinct individuals. So if they are all just projections of Shakespeare, I don't know how that works.

I'm Edward. Yes. Somehow he's managed to plug himself into the collective consciousness.

Yeah. That's what I think. Okay. We'll talk more about this later. Okay. But, but, but yes.

And just one more thing is that I think the reason why he's able to simulate or create Virgil so well is that if you imagine like the subconscious, the field of consciousness of the universe is like Play -Doh or clay. When he's reading the Aeneid a lot, and it's almost like he's feeling in closer and closer detail, the sculpture that is the Aeneid. And so when he's really reading it, he feels these thumbprints, these grooves of the nail, where he's able to see the human mind of Virgil, as you say, by reading the Aeneid so closely that he's able to see, feel the poet behind the words and therefore have such a deep empathy for him, that the empathy creates like a bubble of another being and that that's how he plugs in.

Okay. That's a very large explanation. I don't think that's, that's what's happening. I don't think he's creating Virgil. I think he's summoning Virgil. There's a difference. You know, you guys understand there's, there's, there's, you can create Virgil. Right. Using the same process that you just described. And that's very logical, but I think what's happening is that he's summoned Virgil because to me, I can't, I've read the Aeneid and I don't think the Virgil in the Divine Comedy can be extrapolated from reading the Aeneid alone because there's just, because Virgil, if you read Virgil and like, you just hear the way he speaks. Right. It's, it's like, it feels like a real person. And why it feels like a real person is the contradictions, the nuance, the subtlety cannot be created by you alone. You have to summon this person. Does that make sense? So it's like, he's, it's like he spent his entire life with Virgil as his best friend and they're just talking to each other all the time.

So he understands this guy's peculiarities. Right. Does that make sense? There's certain things, there's certain quirks that like, you cannot imagine it. You cannot create it. It just has to be that person. Yes, Brett?

It just reminds me, when I was reading about Machiavelli, there was at the time, some guy called Valentino Borgia. He got a letter of recommendation where this guy wrote that he was the reincarnation of Thomas Aquinas. And it made the Catholic Church really, really afraid because they didn't want anybody to know about summoning angels and demons and stuff.

Yeah. I think Don has summoned Virgil here. It's very hard for me to explain how this could work otherwise. Okay. Because like, we're reading. The relationship between Donnie and Virgil very closely, right? And like, I'm not finding a contradiction in Virgil. Do you understand? Right? And like, we're able to go into the very psychology of Virgil as an independent actor. Right? We're able to say like, if Donnie's doing this, then this is Virgil's response. And it matches perfectly with the text. Yes?

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So, let's give each of you only several questions before maybe we can move on. Go ahead.

But I, because when you sat on stage, you were terrible and really accurate. Why did you say you didn't know that? How do you know you would like to listen to Nightmirox? Okay. When we were teasing, actually, it's something that was interesting too. You went on today. Whatever to do fun stuff all the time, you just don't give up on it. you're like okay this is the guy who wrote the the iniat right because when you read the iniat what you're reading is the persona of virgil who wrote the iniat okay does that make sense because remember in the minecraft there are three dantes right there's donnie the pilgrim the character there's the historical person the real person there's donnie the poet and all three are different because donnie the pilgrim obviously is the protagonist dante the real person is a real person but donnie the poet is a person who is trying to talk

to us you understand okay so he's trying to create the dying coming in a way that speaks to us and i don't know how you do that unless you're a real person okay whereas and then in virgil yes if you if you think about virgil and you were to bring him outside and like ask him about the indian he would know the iniat like intimately right he's like yeah it's obviously he will he wrote the iniat so you're all provided a way to understand the iniat right so you're all provided a way to understand the iniat right so you're all provided good theories and hypotheses but i mean having thought very deeply about this i think he just summoned virgil and it's like a real virgil right and it's absurd because donnie lived around the year 1300 and virgil lived the year about like you know during the time of jesus like like uh well

i'm not talking to jesus but but a generation before okay so we're talking like 1300 years difference how is this possible uh yes uh yeah you know i think this uh

uh virgil is uh just usher right so i think danny's have read a lot of things about rage uh where virgil so maybe they just imagined this to row in his mind just like reason because sometimes we need to think about something for a reason but not by emotion

but okay so i write novels okay i write novels okay and i'll i'll take my writing process um what happens is i get up in the morning and i have visions i'm like i need to write these visions down and honestly and like if i don't write these visions down then i'm just gonna be haunted for the rest of my life so i'll just write these visions down and i'll be left alone so i write these visions down okay and when i'm writing these visions i don't know what happens it feels like i'm right when i'm writing it feels like someone's taking possession of me and i'm just writing things and then i'm writing about these characters and i'm like i don't know these people okay it's it's like it's it's not like i'm creating these people it's like these people are being revealed to me and then um i finished writing and i look

at these characters like i don't know these people i've never met these people and they feel real to me but knowing that but i feel as though these characters not only are talking to me but they're talking to themselves independently okay and then and i'm exhausted after a day's work and i fall asleep and like okay well my mind is blank and i'm not gonna have any more visions now you know in the morning i get up again and have more visions okay and then i keep on working and at the end of my novel what happens like i look back when it's like how's it possible for me to world build okay how's it possible for me to create all these people that are independent of each other have different personalities but they are true themselves and they're true to each other okay and i'm like i don't know these people i've never had

to spend my own my life and like i can't explain the process and that's why i think that what's happened here is that don has summoned virgil because these are two very different people they're alike in some ways but they're two different people okay all right so now what i'm gonna do is i'm i'm gonna present another theory of how this works okay and this is more in line with dante's theory of how this works so so we know the dora science okay this is a standard theory of memory and identity right right i mean this is what you're taught in school i'm gonna present to you a different theory okay all right so for dante we have the divine spark the divine spark is not a light in us it's our soul and our soul is not um a part of us it is it is us it's it's basically like our electrical field

okay it's it's all around us okay that's the real soul okay um and the soul doesn't exist in our dimension exists in different dimensions all right um and we also know from dante that there is a god and this god is the emanation of the universe the source of the universe and we're all connected to this god okay so the entire cosmos is connected okay so imagine um the cosmos as this infinite eternal mind okay and what happens is that when we have an emotion okay the emotions aren't stored inside our brains they're stored inside this universal consciousness okay as what carl young would say as what manning hall would say okay right first of all edward did you want to explain to us the theory before i explain it myself i think

it's just where you're going that there's this idea that rather than the the memories are stored in our physical beings there is some a collective consciousness and through uh different methods uh that some people propose there is a way of uh channeling this and i don't know the exact uh ways of it but i know that there for example even in in sort of the contemporary world there are some sources about for example like your very young children that have knowledge of things that

yeah there is there is no way that they would have known how yeah yeah people really can't explain this uh so this is a separate theory that's yeah so so my eldest son chris who who you met and you guys met him as well because he came in and like just you know walked around but when he was two years old he told us mom dad you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know i'm an alien from another planet like okay we believe you we really do okay because when we because we've seen him and he's like he's not like me he's not his mother he's he's his own person and like he was two years so he told he told us he's from another planet so the first thing we

asked him of course is like what planet and he mentioned a name i can't remember it but like for him it was real okay so it seems as though that he came in with already memories of a past life and possibly many many past lives i'm not sure if you had a similar experience with your children but you know yeah like like no my my they're the aliens yes okay so um yeah back to this here okay so there is a universal consciousness okay and think of it as an infinite eternal grid so what happens is that when we have emotions they're not stored inside the brain they're stored inside this universal mind okay and there and these memories go in different different locations so so if it's a bad memory like a bad emotion hate then it might be lower but it but if it's a a good emotion like happiness and joy bliss

then it's probably higher higher in the place okay okay so this is this is where the memories are stored okay but knowing that but evelyn's memories are stored here right so it's like it's like the internet and so what happens is that over time certain regions become like alive themselves because they are being uh because there's so much memories being stored in this place right it becomes alive itself and that's where we get the idea of like ghosts and spirits and demons okay and so in other words what happens is like when we have memories okay not only do we store the memories in a certain place but this place also communicates connects with us okay and so um so how does that make sense i think what does it mean yeah well first of all so you know you are a psychic you are an independent person right so basically you you're an independent

person but also your collection of different memories from different eras which means you're also a collection of different individuals from different times okay does that make sense okay why is this important because now gives us insight into how art works right because what art really is it is a portal or a mechanism to enhance your connection to this universal consciousness this internet it doesn't make sense okay so when that happens then not only do you feel more but you feel more remember these emotions come with their own memories with their own visions then these visions come available to you okay so that's what art and dreaming does it connects you to this universal web but if the connection is really strong they don't need these uh agents to provoke you you just see them yourself okay so that's what happened happened to dante so what's happened is like he um he's now able to see

these visions for himself without um artwork and the reason why he's able to see them what's given him sight is the fact that he's cleansing himself of his sins right which is his sins what sins really do is they brought you down to material world they make you forget the universal truth right which is the universal consciousness so the more virtuous a life you you live the more visions you have because the greater your connection to the divide all right you guys understand this any questions about this theory yes but uh i understand you can uh summon

this uh historical figures into your mind um it's like a seance right uh but what it but can you like summon this like fictional characters like let's say you're writing a you're writing a novel right and and these characters they are now they did not existed in the they didn't exist in the in the real world right so can you summon like fictional characters what but i mean like like

this is an infinite universe right so there's infinite people so so when you're writing fiction all you're doing is you're summoning someone from here yes well so just to answer that through

through this lens like the fictional characters uh are basically real characters like they're not really that's right like we're all sort of part of the same collection of archetypes

yes because we read fiction where we read it because it's real to us right because explaining these universal truths to us uh yes so does that mean whenever

a person writes a novel um the characters in their novel um is some summited if he's a good writer

yeah but he could be a bad writer in which case he's making crap up okay but but how's the the

difference like the um why do some writers write a good novel novel and others write a bad novel because

the writer has a different connection to the divine okay like no no no it's really simple okay if you choose to be a writer you're probably a crappy writer you understand it's like i want to be a writer i want to be famous you're probably a crappy writer okay if you're a good writer you're just born that way i hate to say this okay writers are not uh writers are chosen by god dante was chosen the virgin was chosen too bad okay uh yes the fact of uh feeling lighter i feel like when

your ideas come from a spiritual world whereas if you're really heavy then it's just like material like oh i'm lacking money or i'm i'm late and so there's really a link into feeling lighter and

having better ideas that's exactly right yes remember in sorry sorry sorry uh anna uh sorry let me respond this and then um so remember how how in hell the lowest level is lucifer right and he's become a machine so he's lost all consciousness because he's lost the connection to his universal consciousness right uh yes but i have a problem with this theory

because in that way then it's like ecclesiastes there's nothing new under the sun everything we write in fiction is a real person in the past so then we actually lost our imagination because we don't create anything new so carol shaking her head yes but oh okay so like all this collective consciousness

memories are not from there's no time no time in space yeah oh okay right this is all the past it's also the future oh i see i see okay okay because otherwise yeah explain to me how dante is able to have such revolutionary ideas in his time right because like these ideas that he's presenting never existed before so what he's done is he's looked in the future okay right okay doesn't make sense guys okay so again what's really important is as carol says this is beyond time and okay this is literally god okay this system okay god is the alpha and the omega the beginning in the end everything that was and everything that will be okay so when you actually access the system not only are you accessing the past but you're also accessing the future okay yeah uh

but do you have like a better imagery for like your concepts because it's really hard to write down what you did here like do you have a better way to like uh drawing about like what's happening with like bubbles or something um let's google this okay

it's called indra's pearl okay can you google this players indra pearl okay all right uh or android's injured web is that web okay just this yeah does it make more sense to you the web

since you've studied the brain synapses right synapses neurons neurocognition

connections yeah okay so the idea is that god is with is within us and we are within god does that make sense that's a trick to understand that we are it's hard to draw because both are both are true at the same time right we are we are within god and god is within us so the universe

is within us when you and we are the universe when you draw you would collapse it into two

dimension which is which is not yeah also you need to send the fractals right fractal so you are just a fractal of the universe and what was a fractal fractal is just a reflection of the universe right so within you is the universe itself and but you're also a part of the universe god is in you and you are inside god okay does it make sense guys all right this is really important because once you know this then the rest of dante uh is it's easier to understand you okay but but the point is like now that he has this connection to the vine because he's been inspired by artwork he's committed to change and because he's cleansing himself more and more sins the visions become much more vibrant okay okay okay yeah this is actually what i wanted okay you guys see this okay this is the best we can probably do you are

inside god god is inside you you guys do you guys see this yes i was just gonna say also bringing it more to

the point that we were talking about uh contemporary thought like we're talking about how dante can clean him clean himself get better connection to the collective conscious this is quite similar to in hinduism and in yoga when they have the idea of kundalini right that if you abstain from all these desires you do very deep meditation over years and years yes many people reported that they have these visions and that's right connections to this high quality exactly

exactly i mean this is a universal truth okay it's something that i've experienced in my life where um when i write novels like i just don't i don't create i just you know channel if you if you if you create um honestly you're probably not very good so so so let me tell you a funny story um so uh my mentor is ever brought much but also gay talese gay talese is one of the most famous writers in america he's 94 years old and we were 25 years ago we were on a cruise ship in shanghai and there was three of us there was gay talese his wife nantalese who is one of the most famous publishers in america she published margaret atwood and um all these famous writers including joan didion and um she was telling us how phil knight you guys know phil phil knight is right a billionaire nike yeah he's fond

of nike and and she was telling us how obsessed phil knight is with writing a book in fact phil knight would just come to her office every single day and sit there for like two hours just to meet her and talk to her talk to her about the book he wants to write and nantalese is like he is awful he's like the worst writer ever okay um um but i mean eventually he did publish a book it's called shoot dog and it's a bestseller but you know he's he's the richest he's one of the richest men in the world and he's like you know i want to be a writer and he's like i want to be a writer and he's like i want to be a writer and he spent you know these decades going to like these workshops hiring writers learning the craft but but then then nantalese is like you know um

he's not a very good writer but he is just so joyful and enthusiastic and happy about writing he says he wants to write because it brings him tremendous joy and then gay talese said well if you're really stupid you could be very happy as a writer okay all right true story um like if you just you would find tremendous pleasure in writing but if you're really good you would find only agony and suffering in writing because uh you recognize that when you write uh you're not actually in control okay you're being possessed you're you're channeling okay all right does it make sense you guys all right all right let's continue line 115 and when my soul returned

outside itself and met the things outside it that are real i then could recognize my not false desires my guide on seeing me behave as if i were a man who's freed himself from sleep said what's wrong with you you can't walk straight for more than half a league now you have moved with clouded eyes and lurching legs as if you were a man whom wine or sleep has gripped oh my kind father if you hear me out i'll tell you what appeared to me i said when i had lost the right youth of my leg and he although you had a hundred masks upon your face that still would not conceal from me the thoughts you thought however slight you have seen was shown lest you refuse to open your heart unto the waters of peace that pour from the eternal fountain i did not ask what's wrong with you as one who only

sees with earthly earthly eyes which once the body stripped of soul lies dead can't see i ask so that your feet might find more force so must one urge the indolent too slow to use their waking time when it returns we made our way until the end of vespers peering as far ahead as sight could stretch at rays of light that although late were bright and the light of night were dimmed and the light of night were bright but gradually smoke as black as night began to overtake us and there was no place where we

could have avoided it of pure air and sight okay so we uh were in the terrace of law but um they're

all so busy you don't have time to talk okay now we're moving up to the terrorist of rap and the name of the rap uh sort of rap is all black smoke okay all right that's one one canto 16.

blackness of hell and of a night deprived of every planet under meager skies as overcast by clouds that sky can be had never served to veil my eyes so thickly nor covered them with such rough textured stuff as smoke that wrapped us there in purgatory my eyes could not endure remaining open so that my faithful knowledgeable escort drew closer as he offered me his shoulder just as a blind man moves behind his guide that he not stray or strike against something that may do damage to or even kill him so i moved through the bitter filthy air while listening to my guide who kept repeating not cut off from me but i heard voices and each seemed to pray unto the lamb of god who takes away our sins for peace and mercy agnus day was sung repeatedly as their exhortium words sung in such a way in unison that fullest concord seemed to be

among them master are those whom i hear spirits i asked him you have grasped rightly he replied and as they go they lose the knot of anger then who are you whose body pierces through our smoke who speak of the spirit of the spirit of the spirit of the spirit of the spirit of the spirit of us exactly like a man who uses months to measure time a voice said this on hearing it my master turned round to me replied to him then ask if this way leads us to the upward path and i a creature who that you return fair unto him who made you cleanse yourself you shall hear wonders if you follow me i'll follow you as far as i'm allowed he answered and if smoke won't let us see hearing will serve instead to keep us linked then i began with those same swarms of the spirit of the spirit of

god この人我突然作成傀儡 Je verse reversed himself yesterday take my upward path i've come here by way of health exactions since God so gathered me into His glory since God so gathered me into His grace that he would have me in a manner most unusual for modern je his core See the blood separate us once by means that we're driven away or inspire each There's no concealing from me who you once were before your death and tell me if i go straight to the past Your words will be our escort caught of our time after i parted i was a lombard and i was called Marco i knew the world's ways and i loved those good for which the holds of all men now grows slack complementary to those who bone a strength within people this cause is what asgore Matthew Daniel unusual way you've taken lead directly in the end of time to the upward so

he replied and then he added i pray you to pray for me when you're above and i to him i pledge my faith to you to do what you have asked and yet a doubt will burst in me if it finds no way out before my doubt was simple but your statement has doubled it and made me sure that i'm right to couple your word with another's the world indeed has been stripped utterly of every virtue as you said to me it cloaks and is cloaked by perversity some place the cause and heaven's on below but i beseech you to define the cause that seeing it i may show it to others aside from which his sorrow formed and oh was his beginning then he answered brother the world is blind and you come from the world you living ones continue to assign to heaven every cause as if it were the necessary source of

every motion if this were so then your free will would be destroyed and there would be no equity and joy for doing good and grief for evil okay so

um donnie meets a man named marco lombard and they engage in a debate a discussion okay that's it with nature free will and we as we explained earlier free will has to be the fundamental law of the universe for the universe to work properly okay uh if you just think that god intervenes uh and that a lot of things are predetermined um you're not incentivized to do any good and evil okay you become fatalistic and uh so he says that free will has to be the

fundamental law of the universe okay all right keep on going 73 the heavens set your appetites in motion not all your appetites but even if that were the case you have received both light on good and evil and free will which though it struggled in its first wars with the heavens then conquers all if it has been well nurtured on greater power better nature you who are free depend that for is engenders the mind in you outside the heaven's way thus if the present world has gone astray and used the cause and you it's to be sought and now serve as your true exegete issuing from his hand the soul on which he thought with love before creating it is like a child who weeps and laughs in sport that soul is simple unaware but since a joyful maker gave it motion it turns willingly to things that bring delight at first it savors trivial

goods these would beguile the soul and it runs after them unless there's guide or reign to rule its love therefore one needed law to serve as curb a rule or two was needed one who would discern at least the tower of the true city the laws exist but who applies them now no one the shepherd who proceeds his flock can chew the cud but does not have cleft hoops and thus the people who can see their guides not only at that good for which they feel some greed would feed on that and seek no further misrule you see has caused the world to be malevolent the world is clearly not celestial forces they do not corrupt for rome who made the world good used to have two sons and they made visible two paths the world's path and the pathway that is god's each has eclipsed the other now the sword has joined the shepherd's

crook the two together must of necessity result in evil because so joined one need not feed the other free fear the other and if you doubt me watch the fruit and flower for every plant is known by what it seeds within the light is one who ent wiggle then one is courageous and one will be called alive and so we learn heartily in the month of july of the awkward time the house of the flourished rain entered on this day and ceiling and not to the white by an offender but we do have to leave it you may not be willing to bring it one more time to drink a cup of bon uttered mannah to last my life my father stood for a friend in 널 You can conclude the Church of Rome confounds two powers in itself into the fill that falls and fouls itself in its new burden. Good Marco, I replied, you reason well and now understand why Levy's sons were not allowed to share in legacies.

But what, Gerardo, is this whom you mention as an example of the banished people whose presence would reproach the savage age? Either your speech deceives me or would tempt me, he answered then. For you whose speech is Tuscan seem to know nothing of the good Gerardo. There's no other name by which I know him unless I speak of him as Gaia's father. God be with you, I come with you no farther. You see the rays that penetrate the smoke already whitening. I must take leave. The angel has arrived before he sees me. So he turned back and would not hear me more.

Okay, so just to summarize the speech, what he's doing is he's just explaining how the universe works as we'll learn in Paradise, right? So God gave us free will, that is his greatest gift to us. And what allows us to know what's good, what's bad is we're always seeking to return to him, right? We want to turn towards him and that's what brings us eternal delight. But because we are young, we're immature, we don't appreciate that. So we get lost and get confused and we seek material pleasures. And in this chaos, a ruler will come. And try to organize us and steer us towards God. But eventually the ruler becomes corrupt himself. And then what happens is God has sent a divine messenger like Jesus or Homer or Dante to remind us of who we are. To remind us that we are divine sparks that seek to return to God. And then from this person will arise a religion, a church.

And at first that's good, but then what happens is that the church and Empire combine together. And then this causes a lot of corruption. But the main point is, yes, even though this is just a natural course of history, free will is the fundamental law of the universe. And therefore we must take responsibility for all our actions on earth. We can't be like, well, God made us this way or whatever. No, no. God gave us all free choice. Whatever we do, it's because we choose to. So if we don't like things the way they are, we have to go fix it. Okay. Yes.

So the fundamental rule of the universe is free will. Then how do you... But you've said before there are good writers and bad writers. Does that mean a kind of deterministic... No, no, no.

Writers are...

Yes. I think that the way I would answer this is just that bad writers are not good at organizing the inspiration they receive. So they receive visions and characters and stories. But the way they write it means that other beings have a hard time putting their minds in the story. So they just miscommunicate whatever their inspiration is. Okay.

So, sorry. Let me explain what I mean. Okay. What I mean are writers who become historical figures. Writers who change the course of history. People like Homer, Dante, Shakespeare, Plato. Okay. These are clearly divine prophets. Who are compelled to be messengers for the monad, for the vine. Okay. What you're thinking about is, okay, is this guy a bestseller? Is he technically proficient? That doesn't matter. No one cares about these people. Okay. You may care about these people because they're alive today. But 100 years from now, no one's going to read like... Who's a famous writer? Excuse me?

J.K. Rowling.

J.K. Rowling. No one's going to read J.K. Rowling 100 years from now.

Okay. So, the prophets are determined before by God.

Yeah. Can someone explain to him how this works? Anna, can you try?

I think good writers are willing to kind of be a vessel for God's things. So, you are very empty on the inside. It's like yoga, right? Like when you're doing the posture, you empty yourself and then these things come to you. Yeah. So, if you're a bad yoga person, then you do all your yoga. You do all your postures and then you make it look really good. You balance yourself very well. But then you are not a channel. So, then you don't have that divine connection to write that kind of works that change the course of history.

Du, did you want to say something?

I think those good writers, they're just born with a different filter, right? Because like you said, our body is basically a filter to filter the reality. And they can choose to be either like wardrobe or Dante. They can choose wardrobe to distort the celestial order and rise as an idiot, right? Or they can choose to be like Dante to convey this divine order to the secular world.

Okay. Bruce? Thank you. I was saying there's so many famous writers. Some of the writers in America, for example, like Hemingway, right? So, all of these writers just get through some kind of painful memory like in the war, you know, in wartime. So, some people have been tortured so much. They really want to write something, okay? And even the Harry Potter's writer, J.K. Rowling, who has just been so poor in poor conditions. So, in this way, his imagination has been so, you know, so much better than others. And he even keeps writing on the napkins about what he wants to write. And the Harry Potter is actually just J.K. Rowling's childhood. So, maybe this will change.

Fred, did you want to say something?

No. I think other than I have to agree with the filter point, but I just think I really agree with that. It's about bad writers are people that let their own mind and biases and experience cloud the structure that would have come into them.

Yeah, like Virgil, yes.

It's good or bad. It's also, I think human success can be defined by talent, passion, and perseverance or this filter. So, like some people are born, like he said, like to be better writers because their filters are set in a way that they are more likely to have this invitation of divine revelation. But then there were also other, you know, factors.

Do you guys read the New Yorker magazine? Just the most pretentious crap. In this world. Okay. They spent decades perfecting their crap. It's beautiful word after word after word signifying nothing. Full of sound and theory. Okay. That's what the New Yorker is. That's what bad writing looks like. Okay. All right. And so, you're like, well, but, I mean, like, they're successful. No one cares. Okay. All right. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I just hate the New Yorker. Let's move on. Sorry.

Canto 17. Remember, reader? If you've ever been caught in the mountains by a mist through which you only saw as moles see through their skin, how when the thick damp vapors once begin to thin, the sun's fear passes feebly through them, then your imagination will be quick to reach the point where it can see how it first came to see the sun again when it was almost at the point at which it sets. So my steps matched my master's trusty steps out of that cloud I came reaching the rays that on the shores below by now were spent. Oh, fantasy. That at times would snatch us so from outward things we notice nothing, although a thousand trumpets sound around us. Who moves you when the senses do not spur you? A light that finds its form in heaven moves you directly or led downward by God's will. Within my fantasy I saw impressed the savagery of one who then transformed became the bird that most delights in song.

At this my mind withdrew to the within to what imagining might bring. No thing that came from the without could enter in.

Okay. So again, he's having visions now, okay? These visions just come to him. There's nothing he can do about it. These are just visions that are sent down to him. Okay, so let's look at the visions.

Then into my deep fantasy there reigned one who was crucified, and as he died he showed his savagery and disdain. Line 28. Around him were great Ahasuerus and Esther his wife and the just Mordecai, who sang and whose doing were so upright. And when this image shattered of itself just like a bubble that has lost the water beneath which it was formed, there then rose up in my envisioning a girl who wept most bitterly and said, Oh, queen, why did you in your wrath desire to be no more? So as to keep Lavinia, you killed yourself. Now you have lost me. I am she, mother, who mourns your fall before another's. Even a sleep is shattered when new light strikes suddenly against closed eyes. And once it's shattered gleams before it dies completely. So my imagination fell away at soonest. Light, more powerful than light, were accustomed to beat on my eyes. I looked about

to see where I might be, but when a voice said, Here one can ascend, then I abandoned every other intent. That voice made my will keen to see the one who'd spoken with the eagerness that cannot be still until it faces what it wants. But even as the sun becomes so strong, defeats our vision, veiling its own form. So there my power of sight was opened. I could overcome. This spirit is divine, and though unasked, he would conduct us to the upward path. He hides himself with that same light he sheds. He does with us as men do with themselves. For he who sees a need but waits to be asked has already set on cruel refusal. Now let our steps accept his invitation, and let us try to climb before dark falls. Then, until day returns, we'll have to halt. So sat my guide, and toward a stairway he and I together turned.

And just as soon as I was at the first step, I sensed something much like the motion of a wing, and wind that beat against my face and words, beati passivici, those free of evil anger. Above us now, the final rays before the fall of night were raised to such a height that we could see the stars on every side. Oh, why, my strength, do you so melt away? I said within myself, because I felt the force within my legs compelled to halt. We'd reach a point at which the upward stairs no longer climbed, and we were halted there just like a ship when it has touched the shore. I listened for a while, hoping to hear whatever there might be in this new circle. Then I turned toward my master, asking him, Tell me, my gentle father, what offense has perched within the circle we have reached? Although our feet must stop, your words need not.

And he to me, precisely here the love of good that is too tepidly pursued is mended. Here the lazy oar plies harder, and so that you may understand more clearly, now turn your mind to me, and you will gather some useful fruit from our delaying here. My son, there's no creator and no creature whoever was without love, natural or mental, and you know that, he began. The natural is always without error, but mental love may choose an evil object or err through too much or too little vigor. As long as it's directed toward the first good and tends toward secondary goods with measure, it cannot be the cause of evil pleasure. But when it twists toward evil or tends to good with more or less care than it should, those whom he made have worked against their maker. From this you see that, of necessity, love is the seed in you of every virtue and of all acts deserving punishment.

Now, since love never turns aside its eyes from the well -being of its subject, things are surely free of hatred of themselves. And since no being can be seen as self -existing and divorced from the first being, each creature is cut off from hating him. Thus, if I have distinguished properly, ill love must mean to wish one's neighbor ill, and this love is born in three ways in your clay. There's he who, through abasement of another, hopes for supremacy. He only longs to see his neighbor's excellence cast down. Then there's one who, when he's outdone, fears his own loss of fame, power, honor, favor. His sadness loves misfortune for his neighbor. And there's he who, over injury received, resentful for revenge, grows greedy and angrily seeks out another's harm. This threefold love is expiated here below. Now, I would have you understand the love that seeks the good distortedly.

Each apprehends confusedly a good in which the mind may rest and longs for it, and thus all strive to reach that good. But if the love that urges you to know it or to reach that good is lax, this terrorist, after a just repentance, punishes for that. There's a different good which does not make men glad. It is not happiness. It's not true essence, fruit and root of every good. The love that profligately yields to that is wept on in three terraces above us. But I'll not say what three -shape that love takes. May you seek those distinctions for yourself.

Okay, so just like in hell, Virgil is explaining to us how, puritory is structured. He's saying that the last three terraces are the three, um, um, terraces of gluttony, lust, and greed. Okay? Greed, gluttony, and lust are the last, are the top three. And the reason why they're, they're on the top three is they are love that is misguided. Okay? Uh, greed is the love of power, right? When you should be actually loving God. Uh, gluttony is the love of food. And then lust is just, um, spurious love, random love. Okay? So it is love that is misguided. Um, and they are the ones which, um, confuse you. Okay. All right. Uh, let's go on to 18, okay?

Canto 18. The subtle teacher had completed his discourse to me attentively. He watched my eyes to see if I seemed satisfied. And I, still goaded by new thirst, was silent without, although within I said, perhaps I have displeased him with too many questions. But that true father who had recognized the timid want, I would not tell aloud by speaking gave me courage to speak out. At which I said, Master, my sight is so illumined by your light. I recognize all that your words declare or analyze. Therefore, I pray you, gentle father dear, to teach me what love is. You have reduced to love both each good and its opposite.

Okay. All right. So this is actually a really important Canto. Okay. And I want us to focus on this. Virgil now, it's going to explain to us what love is. Why is it love can go astray? Okay. What is good love? What is bad love? Okay. All right. So, uh, let us listen to his explanation.

Line 16. He said, direct your intellect's sharp eyes toward me and let the air of the blind who'd serve as guides be evident to you. The soul, which is created quick to love, responds to everything that pleases just as soon as beauty wakens it to act. Your apprehension draws an image from a real object and expands upon that object until soul has turned toward it. And if so turned, the soul tends steadfastly. Then that propensity is love. It's nature that joins the soul in you anew through beauty. Then just as flames ascend because the form of fire was fashioned to fly upward toward the stuff of its own sphere where it lasts longest, so does the soul when seized moved into longing emotion of the spirit, never resting till the beloved thing has made it joyous. Now you can plainly see how deeply hidden truth is from scrutinists who would insist that every love is in itself praiseworthy.

And they're led to error by the matter of love because it may seem always good, but not each seal is fine, although the wax is. Your speech and my own wit that followed it, I answered, have shown me what love is, but that has filled me with still greater doubt. For if love's offered to us from without and is the only foot with which soul walks, soul going straight or crooked has no merit. And he to me, what reason can see here I can impart. Past that, for truth of faith, it's Beatrice alone you must await. Every substantial form at once distinct from matter and conjoined to it, in gathers the force that is distinctively its own. A force unknown to us, until it acts, it's never shown except in its effects, just as green boughs display the life in plants. And thus man does not know the source of his intelligence of primal notion and his tending toward desires primal objects.

Both are new, just as in bees, there's the honey making urge. Such primal will deserves no praise, and it deserves no blame. Now that all other longings may conform to this first will, there's a new inborn, the power that counts, those keeper of the threshold of your ascent. This is the principle on which your merit may be judged, for it garners and winnows good and evil belongings. Those reasoners who reached the roots of things, learned of its inborn freedom, the bequest that thus they left unto the world is ethics. Even if we allow necessity as source for every love that flames in you, the power to curb that love is still your own. This noble power is what Beatrice means by free will. Therefore, remember it. If she should ever speak of it to you.

Okay. So again, this is a very important speech. Okay. And this is really the fighting speech. Um, the defining, uh, a dialogue between Dante and Virgil. Remember how we said that, uh, at the end of infernal Virgil gave birth to Dante. And throughout this process was Virgil that was guiding Dante. Well, at this point, uh, this dialogue, this debate is gonna mark, um, when Dante and Virgil have their separation. Okay. So let's figure out why Dante and Virgil, they must separate. So Virgil saying this, you're walking the streets and sitting, uh, in the restaurant outside in a terrace is the most beautiful woman you've ever seen. If you're a woman, you're obviously, obviously the most handsome guy you've seen. Okay. All right. But, but, but just for the sake of argument, let's let, let's use beautiful woman. Okay. For the sake of simplicity. Um, and what do you wanna, what do you wanna do now?

Come on.

Yeah.

You, you wanna go say hi, like, Hey, how are you? You sit down beside her. Okay. And, um, what, what happens next? Okay. What happens next? You're talking to her. You're like, Hey, how are you? What a beautiful day. Um, if you're a Virgil, what do you aspire to do? Possess her? Yeah. It's, you wanna possess her, right? If you actually read his speech, he's talking about, about how, what love is. It is your soul expanding outwards to possess another soul of beauty. Okay. You, your soul wants to encompass. Okay. Literally dominate, control, another person. Okay. And what, so, and so if Virgil wants to possess her, how is starting different? What does Donnie want to do? Well, what should you do before you praise her? Come on guys. Have you never dated? Yes. Yes. Brad learn about her. Yeah. I get to know her guys. Okay. Not hard. Ask her, Hey, where are you from?

What do you like to do? Okay. Right. So what Virgil is saying is that's what love is. Love is basically lust. You see someone beautiful and you want to have her. Okay. And so what happens if she says you're ugly or I don't like you, what would Virgil do? Yes.

Put her in hell. Well, yeah, that's what he does ultimately.

But what, but what does he do beforehand?

Um, he'll get mad at, and he'll make like negative comments on like, oh, you're not that good either. Whatever.

But, but what, what do you do? What, what do you do? That makes you mad at her.

Cause she's not praising you back.

What would Virgil do? Okay. Like, like, you know, they have, they have lunch and then Virgil's like, wow, you're so beautiful. And then she's like, you know, I'm not that interested in you. What would Virgil do? Come on.

Yes. Well, he would say like, try to introduce a contract of duty between the two. So he said, I love you so much. No, no, no, he would not do that.

Yes.

He'll write a poem like that. Amy, I forgot how to pronounce it. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Cause I think that girl also kind of refused to talk to him. I think.

Okay. Okay. Like, no, seriously, come on. Come on. It's not hard. Okay. Have you guys not dated? Okay. Yes. He asked why? No, he won't. No, He won't care. What will he do to me? No, he won't.

Maybe in so her. No.

Come on, maybe he would just walk away.

3. How, how do you insist?

He will try to reason her out. Oh, guys.

Come on. Hello. Bower flowers. Hello. Bower chocolates. Hello, How about buy her a diamond ring? How about buy her a Mercedes? How about take her to Monaco for the Grand Prix? How about induce her to Jackie Chan? How about buy her a villa? How about take her to the moon? He won't stop. And then if he gets rejected, what will he do? He'll put her in hell, man. He'll write the Indian and put her in hell. You understand? You understand? That's what literally he will do, right? For like years and years, he will pursue you and you'll be like, no, he'll try harder and harder, okay? That's Virgil's conception of love. Tell me how Donny is different. Yes, Edward?

Did you want to? Try it. If he was rejected, he would just continue to love her? Would he get rejected, Anna?

Yes. He's getting to know her and praise her and then write poetry for her. And if she rejects him, usually she wouldn't, I guess, because he's so loving. But if she does, then he will continue to love her regardless of her reaction to him. But I love you because I love you. I don't need you to love me back because the true essence of love is just love, but you just flow. And if you don't love me, that's fine.

Yes. So what is your name?

Crystal. My name is Crystal. And I was trying to make a similar point. Okay.

Thanks, Crystal. Okay. All right. What does Virgil want at the end of the day when he's sending her flowers and buying her a diamond ring? What does he really want? Sex. Yeah. All he wants is sex, man. Okay. For him, that's what love is. Okay. Sex. Does Donny want sex?

Yes.

Part of it.

No. He does not. Okay. Guys. Guys. Yes.

I think the answer to the first part, like how he would seduce her, he basically try and get to know her as long as it took that it was impossible for her to deny that there was another soul present in her presence. But I think that he doesn't want sex because I think it was his love for Beatrice who he couldn't like, who he never really had sex with that was like, he was thinking, how can I love this person so much, but I'm not trying to procreate or I'm blocked from procreating because she died young. Right.

Also, historically, this is the time of the courtly love tradition, courtly love tradition. So you're supposed to like just worship a woman, but not possess her. Okay. You're supposed to worship her from afar. Usually it's a married woman. Usually it's someone you can never, ever have, but you just write poetry in praise of her. It's something called a courtly love tradition, the troubadours or the provincials in France, and Sardello, who we met previously. Was part of this troubadour tradition. Okay. So Dante, he would not be interested in the sex. He would think that love is the perfect expression of his devotion, of his faith, of his individuality. Okay. Does that make sense? Okay. So these are two. Yes. Andy.

We passed by. We passed by Canto 16, which is the center of the whole comedy and that's the Canto that focuses on free will. And now we get this, we don't, we get a lecture on love, which doesn't seem symmetrical from paradise or Inferno. And so it's like the free will kind of has led into this concept of love, the center of the whole comedy.

Right. Okay. So you're absolutely right. This is actually the very center of the line comedy. And this is where Don and Virgil, okay. It's almost like this is the final battle between the two. Okay. Where heaven and hell meet. Okay. And Don obviously represents heaven and Virgil represents hell. So we're the cosmos and they're going to discuss what love is. Okay. So you're absolutely right. This is crucial structurally and they discuss what love is. And we've already distinguished that Virgil sees love as the expression of your, uh, ego. And you, you want to dominate the other person. You want to possess the other person. Whereas for Dante, love is about giving. Okay. And this is very clear when we, when we reach paradise. Okay. So this is where ha heaven and hell meet, right? This is the final battle between the, between the two. And this is where they will ultimately separate and go, there are separate ways.

Um, how does Virgil define free will here? What is free will you see this beautiful woman, you talk to her, you buy her flowers, you buy her diamond ring, you give her like money and all you want to is have sex with her. what is free will in virgil's understanding of things that you're free to do whatever you want

so it doesn't really matter what she wants or what she wants to do that you have the freedom to pursue her as much as you like and follow what you want as much as you what is good and evil here

uh francois oh for virgil is having what he wants and for dante is wanting what he wants can you explain what so for example like virgil because he wants something free will would be having it uh even though like a lot of things make it impossible whereas dante it's just i think of it and even though it doesn't reach that point just the fact of i'm free to think and free to

imagine having it okay yeah that that's that's right yes okay does someone want to expand on that uh edward did you want to say something okay for for virgil what is good and evil then for for virgil what is good and evil yes uh

good and evil okay i really like french love's comment on uh having versus wanting i think that's that is mind it really leads guides my imagination i think for for virgil is having uh evil is having the wrong things good is having the right things for dante uh good is wanting the right things

and evil is wanting the wrong things right yes okay okay uh anna i feel like for virgil like

he's confirming to his will uh and what's bad is what's refusing his ego's manifestation so if the woman refuses him then she he condemns her to hell ultimately so it's not about whether the woman's choice was right or wrong but the fact that she rejected him no no that's not that's

not how virgil will see it okay because remember we have to think that virgil is a real person with real ideas okay you just say it to yourself that doesn't really make sense virgil what is good and evil is um love and this is really important okay love is neither good or evil if love takes you to a good place and you allow good to take you that that place that's good but if love takes you to an evil place you have to reject love and that's what's good you understand that's what free will is free will is to deny yourself when you know the thing is wrong okay how does this conflict with virgil then oh sorry how does conflict with dante because virgil says love is neutral love can be good or bad free will is to know the difference and to act accordingly right what would donnie say come on we we

read paradise we know what donnie says yes it's like follow your heart good can never be evil sorry love can never be evil love is always good okay then then then how to explain when you see this bit of a woman and like you love her so much you want to give your life to her how how how to explain this dante doesn't call misguided love love it's not love it's lust you understand if you see this woman you want to have sex with her that's not love that's lust okay love is giving yourself love is hoping the best for her right it's like how can i help you how can i be your friend how can i support you that's what love is it's not like i don't have sex with you that's just what lust is okay and virgil does not know the difference whereas donnie does know the difference that's why dante's

stuck in limbo and why virgil's stuck in limbo and donnie's going to heaven that's the difference this is where they separate okay all right okay is that clear guys uh yes

i still don't understand why this argument is even happening when when virgil knows the truth right he knows the truth about everything because he's a prophet so a poet or prophet so why why are they arguing when when when virgil should know the truth and he doesn't have any obstacle to not speak the truth about love that he should know to dante

okay so again this goes back to the idea of absolute will and contingent will okay absolute will is what your soul is okay contingent will is what you choose to do so virgil knows the absolute truth of the universe but he's made certain choices that has clouded his understanding of things okay so he is a poet he knows the complete truth of the universe but he chose to write the in the ad to serve empire and so that's going to cloud his understanding of the way things work right once you make an action you have to justify this action does that make sense right once you make this action you have to like this is the right action you can't be like oh it was it was a mistake so once you make this action you now have to go justify it by changing your worldview okay so you know he knows the absolute truth

he needs to make certain adjustments to the theory in order to make his actions make sense to him right so he knows that love is giving yourself but then like why did you write this the poem the in the ad and what did you let uh let you uh censor it and you know better right and you're like well okay it's and so what what you do is rather than just say i'm wrong you change your worldview doesn't make sense okay so he's he's weighed down

by his past actions and his actions and his actions and his actions and his actions and his actions and

that he can he's not able to change himself and that's what sin is right sin is you are weighed down by your actions and you refuse to forgive yourself and so you just you just you just you just basically uh put yourself in hell for all eternity okay doesn't make sense version problem is he refuses to admit he's wrong he would rather forget he would rather just burn in hell than just submit you know what i was wrong to write the indian ad okay all right guys so we'll take a break we'll come back uh at lunch after lunch okay uh welcome back good afternoon so to start we have a special presentation from francois and uh he's going to talk about how he perceives um how memory works okay so um uh francois yeah uh hello everyone so i was just like looking at

jeng's work and how he represent represented things and uh it was very missy and uh it seems like you were channeling the wrong guy i feel like right uh so yeah i basically did this this map on the right so this was like our discussion before about psychology uh so it is still like quite vague but you understand the most of it and on the right so um there's a big like circle where there's a source in the middle which is the monad so like energy and all and so it sparks like it's very bi - vibrant from the middle and then it extends into some very flat um circle and so how i look at it is that on the exterior it's more about uh present material and ego and so if your consciousness is directed like in this realm then you'll think about like money time house material objects about yourself etc and

like depending on situations and moments in your life then your consciousness is more directed in the center where you like think more of love love hope and family and like etc it's just like um a whole idea and uh also i saw something um of like who is it rupert sheldrake yes yes he is a physicist yes can you explain his theory so basically i saw something about morphic resonance where there is some patterns and if people start thinking in a way i think there's like a pattern and people like diverge into this kind of consciousness so i feel like and so i feel like in today's world there is like improving uh converging point into like the exterior realm media products and ai where our consciousness is directed into thinking about uh money time fear etc whereas i see the divine comedy as more directing us into the center of this uh consciousness and

so just like a point i made like think of this i feel like angels are more meant to push us inward and demons outward in a way and i think it's really movable so depending on the moment in your life and uh during the day your consciousness just like moves around there yeah okay great so um

a few points first of all um this is great by the way this is fantastic um but my first point is remember yesterday professor brahmers told us that uh william james uh he believed ghosts actually exist but they were really boring okay they're not actually included and they have much consciousness and this is something that we experienced in divine comedy as well where there are angels and demons but they don't really do anything okay but the thing is like they're all around us and and this is what what the theory is like like we're surrounded always by these angels and demons who are torn in different directions okay that's the first one second point is that rudolph seldrick is really interesting so if you have a chance please watch his interviews his presentations um online but but to show but to put a point i i want me to just do an experiment okay so

first of all can you can you face the uh screen okay you're gonna face the screen okay and then and then i'm gonna have um edward come and what else yes no no no no stand behind him stand behind him okay okay and send behind him okay all right so i want you to turn away from him okay all right so we're gonna see okay we'll do an experiment okay where edward's going to turn around and look at uh francois okay and first of all can you please close your eyes okay okay so obviously if friends or turns around um before edward turns around then francois loses he gets this game okay right so we're trying to figure out how long it will take for uh everyone's gonna turn around okay and when ever turns around i want to i want to i have to count how long it takes for francois to turn around

okay and you remember if francois turns around first and he obviously loses okay that doesn't it doesn't make sense guys this is just an experiment okay it's not a test um but uh let's start okay on how three and again it's entirely edward's choice we're gonna turn around he could choose not to turn around if he wants to i mean he we could be here for them two hours okay but but we're gonna count how long it takes silently for francois to turn around when edward turns around okay all right so let's start one two three go wow you guys see that that was pretty fast man thank you thank you both okay you see i guess i saw that so francois how do you how do you how did you know can you can you because like we waited a long time i was getting impatient

i was like what's going on here man just through like so i was focusing on my respiration and i felt there was a moment i was like in control of the situation i felt it was the right moment okay

that was pretty that was pretty fast right i i mean i was i was impressed because like i think it was like less than two seconds like like how long was it yeah and like edward was being sneaky about it too right he was like i'm gonna trick him and like but were you surprised right so this is actually what rhubart cedric does he does this sort of research and he's trying to figure out how this happens like like how does this happen right if you use standard neuroscience it gets you nowhere right uh but um if you believe though that we actually exist in different dimensions and we have uh morphic fields okay so so basically we project outwards and so this sort of stuff is possible but also you think about it telepathy telekinesis is also possible to a certain degree okay um and this is something we'll discuss as we continue the

divine comedy how what our souls are our souls are essentially these morphic fields okay and so when edward is turning around and staring at friends our friends are turned around because there's a connection at the soul level okay and that's why the reaction is so fast weird right okay well there you go all right let's continue the vine comedy have you guys not seen this before yeah again like the point is there's so much interesting stuff out there but we close our minds to it right we we have these prejudices about how the world works and so we shut up our minds to these possibilities what's your impression of that but like but like when we saw it happen when you kind of like yeah it was kind of shocking right because like i knew what happened to you but like i didn't know it would happen that instantly right

were you surprised yeah it's like we said also you put us all in tune yes you put us all in tune we've been doing this for 10 11 days yes yes yes uh excuse me no just like yeah i waited a long time

yeah you did i was like why man yeah i'd waited so long so i thought when i finally turned around you know it might take a while then to turn around yeah yeah and then he basically as soon as i turned around and looked at him he turned around yeah

yeah it happens pretty fast okay all right guys let's let's continue divine comedy okay

um canto 18 line 76 the moon with midnight now behind us made the star seem scarer to us scarcer to us it was shaped just like a copper basin gleaming new and counter course it crossed those paths the sun ignites when those in rome can see it set between the corsicans and the sardinians that gracious shade for whom piatola one more renowned than any manchu in town had freed me from the weight of doubt i bore so that i having harvested his clear and open answers to my questions stood like one who nearing sleep has random visions but readiness for sleep was suddenly taken from me by people who behind our bags backs already turned in our direction just as of old ismanus and asapus at night along their banks saw crowds and clamor whenever thebans had to summon buckets such was the arching crowd that curved around that circle driven on as i made

out by righteous will as well as by just love soon all that mighty throng drew near us for they ran and ran and two in front of them who wept were crying in her journey mary made haste to reach the mountain in order to conquer lerida for caesar thrust against marseille and then to spain he rushed to the other side of the mountain and then the others cried quick quick lest time be lost through insufficient love we're urged for good as keen grace finds new green oh people in whom eager fervor now may compensate for sloth and negligence he showed in doing good half -heartedly he who's alive and surely i don't lie to you would climb above as soon as he has seen the sun shed light on us again then tell us where the passage lies at hand my guide said this one of the souls replied to us and you will find

the gap we're so fully anxious to advance we cannot halt and do forgive us should you take our penance for discourtesy i was saying xenos abbott in verona under the rule of valiant barbarossa of whom milan still speaks with so much sorrow and there's one with one foot in the grave who soon will weep over that monastery lamenting that he once had power there because in place of its true shepherd he put one who was unsound of body and still more of mind and born in sin his son i don't know if he had said more or was silent he had already raised so barb far beyond us but i heard this much and was pleased to hear it and he who was my help in every need said turn around see those two coming they whose words mock sloth and i heard those two say behind all of the rest the ones for whom

the sea parted were dead before the jordan saw those who had inherited its lands and those who did not suffer trials until the end together with and cassie's son gave themselves up to life without renown then when those shades were so far off from us that seeing them became impossible a new thought rose inside me and from that from that thought still others many and diverse were born i was so drawn from random thought thought that wandering in mind i shut my eyes transforming

thought on thought to dream so a new thought rose inside of me and it kept on going okay what happens as you become much more virtuous you become much more connected to the divine consciousness and more and more uh visions or downloaded into you okay that's a process at work

all right let's keep on going canto 19. in that hour when the heat of day defeated by earth and sometimes saturn can no longer warm up the moon sent cold when geomancers can in the east see their fortuna major rising before the dawn along a path that will be darkened for it only briefly a stammering woman came to me and dream her eyes askew and crooked on her feet her hands were crippled her complexion sallow i looked at her and just as sun revives cold limbs that night made numb so did my gaze lose in her tongue and then in little time set her contorted limbs in perfect order and with the coloring that love prefers my eyes transformed the oneness of her features and when her speech had set free then she began to sing so that it would have been most difficult for me to turn aside i am she sang i'm the

pleasing siren who in mid -sea leads mariners astray there's so much delight in hearing me i turned aside ulysses although he had longed to journey who grows used to me seldom departs i satisfy him so her lips were not yet done when there beside me a woman showed herself alert and saintly to cast the siren into much confusion oh virgil virgil tell me who is this most scornfully and he came forward his eyes intent upon that honest one he sees the other bearing her in front tearing her clothes and showing me her belly the stench that came from there awakened me i moved my eyes and my good master cried at least three times i've called you rise and come let's find the opening where you may enter okay all right so this is another dream

okay so again as virgil was kind of higher more and more visions come to him and this is a very strange dream right oh virgil the other day i thought she was like oh my gosh i'm so glad she's Because Donna is being seduced by the siren, the siren who seduced Ulysses. And then a woman barges in and shouts, Oh, Virgil, Virgil, tell me, who is this? And then Virgil comes forward, and then he seizes the siren and tears her clothes apart. What's going on here? Let's try to figure out what this dream is about. Remember, the last dream that Donna had was a vision from heaven, where Lucia, as an eagle, picks him up and delivers him to the gates of purgatory. What is going on here? And again, I don't know the answer. It's all interpretation, right? It's all speculation. So can someone tell me what is going on here? What is this dream about?

In our understanding of the divine comedy, who is the siren? Do you know what I mean? Okay, yeah, I know the siren is a woman, but I'm saying, like, so far in our story, who should be the siren? Yeah, it's Virgil, right? Okay? So if we see this, we think maybe it's Virgil, because Virgil is the one seducing Donna throughout, right? With his poetry. And throughout all this time, Donna has been a student, a child of Virgil's, right? Right? So it seems as though it sounds like Virgil is the one seducing Dante and leading him astray. But then something weird happens. Beatrice comes in. I think it's Beatrice. You know, maybe it's Beatrice. She's like, Virgil, Virgil, tell me, who is this? Where's Dante here?

Yes. When Virgil comes forward, he's behind Dante. So, um, because he's barring her in front, it's almost like he's hiding herself. And I think that when he's showing Dante her belly, it's a message from Beatrice saying like, you are, please don't get stillborn in Virgil, such that you would start to rot as a baby. And, um, the siren is like a love that has been left to fester. And that's why it, that's why it smells. Okay.

That's really interesting. Okay. But first, answer me this question. Um, what should Beatrice be? Really saying, what should, what should Beatrice be saying to me? Nope. Nope. So, so it seems as though Don is being seduced, right? Beatrice comes in and what she should be saying rather than, Oh, Virgil, Virgil, tell me, who is this?

And be like, she'll probably be like, she is pissed right now. Yeah.

She asked, quote, quote, squintfully. Yeah. But what is strange or paradoxical about what she's saying?

Because Virgil should be the siren, but now there's another siren.

Yeah. Why is she talking to Virgil? Virgil should be talking to Dante, right? It's starting his dream. Beatrice is starting his beloved, right? This is a dream. So, so visualize this. Dante is staring at a siren. He's being seduced by the siren. Can you explain?

So in this dream, Dante is Virgil.

Yeah. And why is this a problem? Um, what does this tell, tell Dante?

It's a clarion call. It's a clarion call that he's gone too far in his bond with Virgil.

Okay. Yes. Anyone else? Yes. I think in the moment when you have to kill your father as a man or whatever the case may be, um, that final moment is when you realize your greatest affinity with the father. So you're thinking, these are the things that make me like him. This is how I am him. And you use him as a final projection. You say, all right, I'm him, now I'm gonna, it's over.

Yeah. Have you guys watched Star Wars? Right. You, I know you've watched Star Wars, but you remember the scene where, um, is it, is it episode two? Um, but, but you know, like, like Luke has to kill his father, right? So he kills someone, discovers it's his father. Right. When he opens it, it's, it's like himself. Right.

Okay.

So it's playing to that idea. It doesn't make sense, guys. Okay. So, so that goes. That conversation, that, that dialogue between Dante and Virgil, it's a turning point now, because it sounds correct, but there's a part to it that Dante knows it's not correct. Okay. And now his connection to the divine is giving those images to show him it's not correct. In fact, the universe is now warning him, be aware of Virgil. You are now Virgil. Right. Okay. Does that make sense guys? Yes.

It's especially because. After it's right after Virgil delivered his speech about love. And so Dante's almost like inhibiting his worldview to his right. So he's like becoming Virgil in that aspect. And especially like understanding love is like the most important thing for Dante that he gets it. Right.

Yes, exactly. Yes. Thank you. Okay. All right. But, but you see how, like, once you connect the vine, the vine will steer you in the right direction. Do you, do you understand, like, what's important is to connect yourself to the divine food love once, once that happens, the vine will give you messages to show you the way, even though you, you may yourself may be corrupted. All right. Let's keep on going. Does anyone else want to add something to the stream? Because again, this is a very complex stream. Okay. I don't, I don't want to oversimplify it.

Yes. Um, I think it's quite telling that Beatrice asked Virgil to identify the siren because it's kind of the love that we were talking about. That Virgil has that turns, uh, the ugly lady into a beautiful one, that the idea that he could possess her makes her beautiful when in fact it's, she's like sallow and, and ugly and malformed.

Um, uh, Anna.

Yeah. It also makes me think about this whole idea in the Greek tradition that the first two or three gods, like before Zeus, they were all father killing. So this idea of almost epitaph. This theory, like you have to kill your father to become yourself. It's also the turning point, like past 16, right? Like halfway to, uh, purgatory that your first half of your life is childhood. You're imitating your dad and you know, you want to be him or you battle him a little bit in teenage, you know, when you're a teenager. And then finally, I guess maybe this is the turning point in which he becomes adulthood, which is killing of one's father.

Okay. Um, the other thing I will point out is like how the universe talks to you is through images. That evoke emotions, you understand, right? The images don't really mean that much. The images are meant to convey emotion to, to like provoke an emotion in you that leads you to a correct path. So, um, I mean, what I think my interpretation is this, okay. Uh, if I'm Dante, I see this dream and I'm extremely uncomfortable. I'm extremely, uh, anxious. And the reason. Why is I feel as though Beatrice and Virgil might become one with each other. Does that make sense? Because it's Virgil who goes and does Beatrice bidding. Okay. So, so it's one of like Virgil is my competitor now. You understand that's the emotion now before it's like versus my father. Now he's like, no, no, no, no. Virgil is my competitor. I need to watch out. I mean, like, if I really

want to keep Beatrice, I need to show, I am more worried than Virgil that I am more willing to do sacrifice myself for Beatrice.

Yeah. Which in a way is very complex too, right? And for the Freudian concept is that the first few years of your life and the little boy wants to imitate the father. And after that, he's like, oh, he's a competitor to my mom, you know, for me. So I have to kill him. So, right.

Okay. But you see how, how with Dante. Okay. Just a few lines are so rich, right? They're so pregnant. You can go on and on trying to analyze what's going on, but there's so many different layers, right? Okay. So I think, you know, again, what's causing this dream is Virgil's exposition of love. Right. And Donnie, Donnie, his heart knows no, no, no, this is, this doesn't make any sense, but he doesn't know why it doesn't make any sense because he's not mature enough. Right. So, so the universe gives him these dreams that reveal to him Virgil is your competitor. Okay. Be wary of what he just said. Okay. Does it make sense, guys? Okay. All right. Let's keep on going.

I'm 37. I rose. The daylight had already filled the circles of the sacred mountain. We were journeying with new sun at our back. I followed him, bearing my brow like one whose thoughts have weighed him down, who bends as if he were this semiarch that forms a bridge. And then I heard, draw near, the past is here, said in a manner so benign and gentle as in our mortal land, one cannot hear. Okay. He who addressed us so had open wings, white as a swan's, and he directed us upward between two walls of the hard rock, and then he moved his plumes, and fanning us, affirmed that those qui lugent would be blessed, their souls would be possessed of consolation. What makes you keep your eyes upon the ground, my guide began to say to me when both of us had climbed a little past the angel. And I, what makes me move with such misgiving is a new vision.

It has so beguiled me that I cannot relate. I have to relinquish thoughts of it.

Okay, so again, this vision has unsettled Dante. Now he's forced to come to terms with both the emotion and the vision. Okay? Keep on going.

The one you saw, he said, that ancient witch, for her alone one must atone above. You saw how man can free himself from her. Let that suffice, and hurry on your way. Fasten your eyes upon the lyre that's spun by the eternal king with his great spheres. Just like a falcon who at first looks down, then when the falconer has called, bends forward, craving the food that's ready for him. There, so I became, and so remained until, through the cleft rock that lets one climb above, I reached the point at which the circle starts. When I was in the clearing, the fifth level, my eyes discovered people there who wept, lying upon the ground, all turned face down. Atesit pavimento anima mea. I heard them say with sighs so deep that it was hard to comprehend the words they spoke. O God's elect, whose sufferings both hope and justice make less difficult, direct us to the stairway meant for our ascent.

If you come here but do not need to be prostrate, and you would find the path most quickly, then keep your right hand always to the outside. So did the poet ask, so did reply come from a little way ahead, and I, hearing that voice reply, learned what was hidden. I turned my eyes to find my master's eyes. At this, with a glad sign, he ratified what I had asked for with my eager eyes. When free to do as I had wanted to, I moved ahead and bent over that soul whose words before had made me notice him, saying, Spirit. Spirit. In whom weeping ripens that without which there is no return to God. So spend a while, for me your greater care. Tell me, who were you, and why are your backs turned up? And there where I, alive, set out, would you have me beseech some good for you?

And he to me, why heaven turns our backs against itself, you are to know. But first, she is called Ego Fui, successor Petri. Between Sestri and Chiaveri descends a handsome river, and its name is set upon the upper portion of my crest. For one month and a little more I learned how the great mantle weighs on him who'd keep it out of the mire. All other weights seemed feathers. Alas, how tardy my conversion was! But when I had been named the Roman Shepherd, then I discovered the deceit of life. I saw that there the heart was not at rest, nor could I in that life ascend more high, so that in me love for this life was kindled. Until that point I was a squalid soul, for God divided holy avaricious. Now, as you see, I am punished here for that. When avarice enacts here, declared, is the purgation of converted souls, the mountain has no punishment more bitter.

Just as we did not lift our eyes on high, but set our sight on earthly things instead, so justice here impels our eyes toward earth. As avarice annulled and announced the love of any other good, and thus we lost our chance for righteous works, so justice here fetters our hands and feet and holds us captive. And for as long as it may please our just Lord, here will be outstretched and motionless.

Okay, so they are now in a terrace of greed or avarice, and they're talking to Pope Adrian, who said that as Pope he was extremely ambitious, he did whatever he could to climb the ladder of power, and now, after he repented, he is forced to basically lie on the ground to focus on the present, to focus on life. And Lord himself. Okay? All right, keep on going.

Line 127. I had kneeled, wishing to speak, but just as I began, and through my voice alone, he sensed that I had meant to do him reverence. What reason makes you bend your body so, he said, and I to him. Your dignity made conscience sting me as I stood erect. Brother, straighten your legs, rise up, he answered. Don't be mistaken. I, with you and others, am but a fellow servant of one power. If you have ever understood the holy sound of the gospel that says, Neque nubent, then you will see why I have spoken so. Now go your way. I'd not have you stop longer. Your staying here disturbs my lamentations. The tears that help me ripen what you mentioned. Beyond, I have a niece whose name Elagia. She in herself is good, as long as our house, by example, brings her not to evil, and she alone is left to me beyond.

Okay, all right. Let's keep on going. Okay.

Canto 20. Against a better will, the will fights weak, therefore to please him, though against my pleasure, I drew my unquenched sponge out of the water. I moved on, and my guide moved through the unencumbered space, hugging the rock as one walks on a wall close to the battlements. For those whose eyes would melt down drop by drop, the evil that possesses all the world were too close to the edge on the far side. May you be damned, O ancient wolf, whose power can claim more prey than all the other beasts. Your hungering is deep and ever ending. O heavens, through whose revolutions many things on earth are changed. When will he come, the one whose works will drive that wolf away? Our steps were short and slow as we moved on. I was attentive to the shades. I heard the sorrow in their tears and lamentations. Then I, by chance, heard one ahead of us crying in his lament, Sweet Mary, as a woman would outcry in labor pains.

And he continued, In that hostel where you had set down your holy burden, there one could discover just how poor you were. Following this, I heard, O good Fabricius, you chose as your possessions indigence, with virtue, rather than much wealth, with vice. These words have been so pleasing to me, I moved forward so that I might come to know the spirit from whom they had seemed to come. He kept on speaking, telling the largesse of Nicholas, the gifts he gave the maidens so that they might be honorably wed. O soul who speaks of so much righteousness, do tell me who you were, I said, and why just you alone renew these seemly praises. Your speaking to me will not go unthanked when I return to finish the short span of that life which now hurries toward its end. And he,

I'll tell you, not because I hope for solace from your world, but for such grace as shines in you before your deaths arrived. I was the root of the obnoxious plant that overshadows all the Christian lands so that the fine fruit can rarely rise from them.

Okay, so this, his name is Hugh Capet, and he is the founder of the current dynasty of the Holy Roman Empire, okay? So his family now controls the Holy Roman Empire. As we know, the Holy Roman Empire is at war with the Vatican. And this is causing all sorts of chaos throughout the world. So he's the root of that obnoxious family that is now overshadowing all Christian lands. Okay? And his name is Hugh Capet. Okay? All right.

Line 46. But if Duay and Lille and Bruges and Ghent had power, they would soon take vengeance on it. And this I beg of him who judges all. The name I bore beyond was Hugh Capet. Of me was born the Louise and Phillips by whom France has been ruled most recently. I was the son of a Parisian butcher when all the line of ancient kings was done and only one, a monk in grey, survived. I found the reigns that ruled the kingdom tight within my hands and I held so much new gained power and possessed so many friends that, to the widowed crown, my own son's head was elevated and from him began the consecrated bones of all those kings. Until the giant dowry of Provence removed all sense of shame within my house, my line was not worth much but did no wrong. There its rapine began with lies and force and then it ceased that it might make mence, Pontieux and Normandy and Gascony.

Charles came to Italy and for amends made Coradin a victim and then thrusts back Thomas into heaven for amends. I see a time, not too far off, in which another Charles advances out of France to make himself and his descendants famous. He does not carry weapons when he comes only the lance that Judas tilted, this he couches so he twists the paunch of Florence. From this he'll gain not land, just shame and sin, which will be all the heavier for him as he would reckon lightly such disgrace. The other, who once left his ship as prisoner, I see him sell his daughter, bargaining as pirates haggle over female slaves. Oh, Alvarez, my house is now your captive. It traffics in the flesh of its own children. What more is left for you to do to us? That past and future evil may seem less, I see the fleur -de -lis enter Anani and his vicar, Christ made prisoner.

I see him mocked a second time. I see the vinegar and gall renewed and he slain between two slaves who are still alive. And I see the new pilot, one so cruel that, still not stated, he without decree carries his greedy sails into the temple. Oh, you, my lord, when will you let me be happy on seeing vengeance that concealed makes sweet your anger and your secrecy? What have I said about the only bride the Holy Ghost has known, the words that made you turn to me for commentary? These words serve as answer to our prayers as long as it is day. But when night falls, when we recite examples that are contrary, then we tell over how Pygmalion, out of his greedy lust for gold, became a thief and traitor and a parasite. The wretchedness of Aversus Midas resulting from his ravenous request, the consequence that always makes men laugh.

And each of us recalls the foolish Achan, how he had robbed the spoils so that the anger of Joshua still seems to sting him here. Then we accuse Sapphira and her husband, we praise the cakes Peliodorus suffered, and Palmnester, who killed Polydorus, resounds in infamy around all this mountain. And finally, what we cry here is, Crassus, tell us, because you know how does gold taste. At times, one speaks aloud, another low, according to the sentiment that goads us now to be more swift and now more slow. Thus I was not alone in speaking of the good we cite by day, but here nearby no other spirit raised his voice as high. We had already taken leave of him, and were already struggling to advance along that road as far as we were able, when I could feel the mountain tremble like a failing thing, at which a chill seized me as cold grips one who goes to Midas death.

Delos had surely not been buffeted so hard before Latona planted there the nest in which to bear the sky's two eyes. Then such a shout rose up on every side that drawing near to me my master said, don't be afraid as long as I'm your guide. Gloria in excelsis Deo, they all cried, so did I understand from those nearby whose shouted words were able to be heard. Just like the shepherds who first heard that song, we stood but did not move in expectation until the trembling stopped, the song was done. Then we took up again our holy power on the path, watching the shades who lay along the ground who had resumed their customary tears. My ignorance has never struggled so, has never made me long so much to know if memory does not mislead me now, as it seemed then to belong within my thoughts, nor did I dare to ask.

We were so rushed, nor by myself could I discern the cause, so timid, pensive, I pursued my way.

Okay, so two points. The first point is that, again, there's a lot of symmetry in Dante, so this mirrors in Paradise where Peter, the first pope, he lambasts, he criticizes the Catholic Church, right? Well, the founder of the current Holy Roman Empire, Hugh Cabat, criticizes his own family and demands divine justice, divine retribution for all their crimes. Second point is like, as they're climbing up the mountain, there's an earthquake, it shakes. The reason why the mountain does that is whenever a soul completes his purgation, that soul is admitted into heaven and the universe celebrates with an earthquake, okay? To signify that a soul has been released and will now ascend to heaven. Okay, and next counter, we will meet the soul and I want you to pay careful attention to how the soul interacts with Virgil because this soul, his name is Statius, okay? Statius. So, the symmetry, okay? So, remember before, Virgil met Sudello, okay?

This is Virgil. Sudello is a troubadour, which is to say he is a love, he's a poet of the quality love tradition and he was living around the time of Dante, okay? Maybe the 13th century, okay? So, do you remember when Virgil met with Sudello, what it was like? Yeah, they were from the same place. What else? Okay, and Sudello bowed before Virgil, right? And how did Virgil feel about all this? He was ecstatic, right? He was ecstatic, okay? And now what's going to happen is this, Virgil is going to meet Statius and Statius is, he is a Latin poet, okay? A Latin epic poet, very similar to Virgil, okay? And Statius, worships Virgil. And how does Virgil feel about this? What would you guess? Yeah, he'd be very, he'd be happy as well, right? Well, if Sudello worshiped Virgil, you would think another poet worshiping Virgil, Virgil would have the same reaction, but it's the opposite reaction, okay?

He is not happy about this. Okay, so let's read Canto 21, okay?

Canto 21. The natural thirst that never can be quenched except by water that gives grace, the drop that the simple woman of Samaria sought tormented me. Haze spurred me on the path crowded with souls behind my guide, and I felt pity, though their pain was justified. And here, even as Luke records for us that Christ knew, risen from his burial cave, appeared to two along his way, a shade appeared, and he advanced behind our backs while we were careful not to trample on the outstretched crowd. We did not notice him until he had addressed us with, God give you, O my brothers, peace. We turned at once, then after offering suitable response, Virgil began, and may that just tribunal which has consigned me to eternal exile place you in peace within the blessed assembly. What? He exclaimed as we moved forward quickly. If God's not deemed you worthy of assent, who's guided you so far along his stairs?

If you observe the signs the angel traced upon this man, my teacher said, you'll see plainly he's meant to reign with all the righteous, but since she who spends nights with him and night and day had not yet spun this spool that clotho sets upon the distaff and adjusts for everyone, his soul, the sister of your soul and mine, in its ascent, could not alone have climbed here, for it does not see the way we see. Therefore I was brought forth from hell's broad jaws to guide him in his going. I shall lead him just as far as where I teach can reach. But tell me if you can, why? Just before the mountain shook and shouted all of it, for so it seemed down to its sea -bathed shore. His question threaded so the needle's eye of my desire that just the hope alone of knowing left my thirst more satisfied.

The other shade began. The sanctity of these slopes does not suffer anything that's without order or uncustomary. This place is free from every perturbation what heaven from itself and in itself receives may serve us cause here, no thing else. Therefore no rain, no hail, no snow, no dew, no hoarfrost falls here any higher than the stairs of entry with their three brief steps. Neither thick clouds nor thin appear nor flash of lightning Thaumas's daughter who so often shifts places in our world is absent here. Dry vapor cannot climb up any higher than to the top of the three steps of which I spoke where Peter's vicar plants his feet. Below that point there may be small or ample tremors but here above I know not why no wind concealed in earth has ever caused a tremor for it only trembles here when some soul feels its cleanse so that it rises or stirs to cleanse and to climb on high and that shout follows.

The will alone is proof of purity and fully free surprises soul into a change of dwelling place effectively. Soul had the will to climb before but that will was opposed by longing to do penance as once to sin instilled by divine justice. And I who have lain in this suffering five hundred years and more just now have felt my free will for a better threshold.

Okay, stop, okay. Why are souls being punished in purgatory? Soul had the will to climb before but that will was opposed by longing to do penance instilled by divine justice. Why are souls suffering in purgatory? What do these three lines mean? Anyone?

Fred? I think it's to test whether their mindset is true and whether their mindset is different from those in hell and that it's changed.

Okay, read the lines to yourself, okay? And tell me, try to paraphrase these lines, okay? Anna?

I said they had the will to climb before but that will was opposed by longing to do penance. That means they want to climb but it's not wanting to do penance. So that's why it's...

Nope, nope. What does he mean here? Why are they being punished?

Yes? Well, they have to cleanse themselves of their sin because their sin, the weight of their sin is weighing them down to climb further.

Why do they have to do that, though?

Well, if they don't cleanse themselves then they can't advance. Says who?

You, yourself. Excuse me? Yourself. Yourself. You understand the idea here. What this is saying is this. Yes, we have the desire to climb but we also want to make ourselves worthy of God. It's not God punishing us. It's we're punishing ourselves to make ourselves worthy of God. We are cleansing ourselves of our sins by doing penance. Do you understand? This idea of complete free will. No one's making you do these punishments. You want to do these punishments because they make you a better person. And when you face God, you want to be the best person possible. You don't want to have any doubt. You don't want to have any sin in you. Okay? I mean, it's like going to the prom and like, you know, dressing up really, really nicely. Okay? You want to be your best. And that's why you do penance. That's why you suffer. Okay? Keep on going.

Seventy. Thus you heard the earthquake and the pious spirits throughout the mountain as they praised the Lord, and may He send them speedily upward. So did He speak to us. And just as joy is greater when we quench a greater thirst, the joy He brought cannot be told in words. And my wise guide, I now can see the net impeding you, how one slips through and why it quakes here and what makes you all rejoice. And now may it please you to tell me who you were in your words. May I find why you've lain here for so many centuries.

Seventy -eight years, yet you have yet to be saved, and yet you've to be saved. May He be with you. I was told, in fact, by God, through His hands, that we would be saved. But, do you know what? The Lord will save you.

this is this is emotional state okay keep on going 82 in that age when the worthy titus with help from the highest king avenged the wounds from which the blood that judas sold had flowed

and what year is this when worthy titus eventual wounds from which the blood that judas sold had flowed do you guys know what year this is do you guys not not not know your christian history no it's 70 do you understand 70 70 is the is the year when the romans burned down the second temple okay titus is the emperor and he burned down the second temple all right and the christians believe this is vengeance for the crucifixion of jesus all right keep on going in 85 i had sufficient fame

beyond that spirit replied i bore the name that lasts the longest and honors most but faith was not yet mine so gently i will be your king i remember then and ever it was better in all ways than zero that i may remember until i was tripped over with the love of the earth on earth it seemed i had lived the more than one million years of arts which is a huge sum i have so many of my concealer i can't mention an inch well i've even mentioned quantitative on how many months you might expect that to be an hour a thousand forsaken how would you like for that i would extend by one more year the time i owe before my exiles end okay so so like what

he's saying is this okay the guy spent 500 years in the same crap over and over to make himself worthy of god and but there's one person he admires more than god and it's virgil right because virgil is the holy fire and he says you know what if i had a chance to meet virgil just once i would keep on going for another year okay and virgil is next to him right so how is virgil feeling right now he's ecstatic right he'd be like oh wow i'm virgil yeah i'm god yeah wow i'm the holy fire yeah i nursed you yeah that's me man okay you understand okay all right and now we're gonna read this and and appreciate there's no way donnie could have created virgil you have to summon virgil okay because it's too real okay keep on reading

verse 103 these words made virgil turn to me and as he turned his face through silence said be still and yet the powerful cannot do all for tears and smiles are both so faithful to the feelings that have prompted them that true feeling escapes the will that would subdue but i smile like a man whose eyes would signal at this the shade was silent and he stared where sentiment

is clearest at my eyes stop sorry okay this is really important okay you guys do you guys know what's going on here this is you have to actually seen this yourself you can actually just make this

stuff up what's going on here yes fred virgil is like i'm not better than god this guy's like too much of a super fan dante please don't leak it yes but dante's eyes are so like wide yeah and the the the shades just like look at him it's like it's like in a pantomime where he's like he's behind you or something yes and the shade and he basically betrays virgil's identity to the shade just

because it's expression so much happens right and so much emotion so realistic and it's all just like micro expressions right it's just like the like you know like the um like virgil's just like a quick look at him right he doesn't even say anything he's like just a quick look like you know and then virgil and then donnie's like like like he can't stop himself he's just full of emotion and status looks and says hmm you know something okay all right so this is all really realistic all right um keep on going line 112 and said so may your

trying labor end successfully do tell me why just now your face showed me the flashing of a smile now i am held by one side and the other one keeps me still the other conjures me to speak but when therefore i sigh my master knows why and tells me do not be afraid to speak but speak and answer what he has asked you to tell him with such earnestness at this i answered ancient spirit you perhaps are wondering at the smile i smiled but i would have you feel still more surprised he who is guide who leads my eyes on highest that same virgil from whom you derived the power to sing of men and of the gods do not suppose my smile had any source beyond the speech you spoke be sure it was those who believed in you who were the ones who have the power to sing of men and of the

gods do not suppose my smile had any source beyond the speech you spoke of him that were the cause now he had bent to kiss my teacher's feet but virgil told him brother there's no need your shade a shade is what you see and rising he now you can understand how much love burns in me for you when i forget our insubstantiality treating the shades as one treats solid things okay all right again the contrast right when

where sudolo meets virgil virgil tells him right away i'm virgil and so i was wow man i'm your biggest fan and then sudol bows before virgil and virgil's ecstatic now sadius is like i'm your biggest fan and virgil's like oh okay like he doesn't want him to know i'm virgil and then uh uh donnie tells him and studies kisses his feet okay he lowers himself and kisses the feet of virgil right you remember where where you know um when sort of solo talks to virgil virgil's like yeah i'll give my autograph and let's do a selfie and like you know virgil is like just loving the moment but here virgil's like could you please stop just stop man just stop right why is virgil behaving like this and again it's impossible to

create a virgil you have to summon this guy yes i think because he realizes that it's like really hitting in his head that his poetry is kind of undermining the true message of the universe and so like he's like if i if my work has made someone at the very height of purgatory act this way it just kind of makes him feel embarrassed and he's like this really isn't what i should have done i should not have inspired someone to behave this way and it's kind of making him self -conscious about what he wanted before

okay yes and also this act of kissing someone's feet is what happens in the bible where uh a woman with her hair she wipes his feet with oil and kisses his feet so it's kind of the same act of worshiping god in a way and this guy is literally going to god in a split second but he's like oh by the way before that you're better than god and then he makes virgil's like oh my gosh i hope this guy doesn't get sent back to somewhere or like get into trouble or maybe i

don't know yeah okay but then why why is virgil you just you're saying that virgil's a humble guy but when sordello kisses the bowels before him virgil's ecstatic right there's a paradox here and the symmetry shows you there's a paradox to explain what's going on and the answer is not because you know he's embarrassed at the idea that he's god he's not he wants to be god right um why is he behaving like this yes does he resent that this guy's going to heaven why would he resent this guy going to heaven he didn't resent sordello going to heaven right why would he resent this guy stadia's going to heaven he's also a pagan poet yeah right you understand okay remember how awkward it is for virgil to meet with cato right virgil doesn't really really doesn't want to talk to cato again he really doesn't want to talk to him they hate each other

here okay it's different because that is worships virgil but virgil really doesn't want to talk to him because he's a pain he's not supposed to go to heaven you understand like he is a woman epic poet he is a pagan who do not convert same as virgil so if you're virgil you're like uh what's going on here right okay so let's think about this okay um we talked how when k when virgil met cato virgil just engaged in cognitive dissonance right he just forgot that kato is a pagan okay but here he is able to recognize the fact that yes uh status is a pagan and i'm a pagan and he's better than i am how is he able to do do this okay okay um we're gonna have time but but but like i'll throw an idea out there for you guys okay you cannot fool yourself ever okay you think you can fool

yourself but you cannot fool yourself ever why because you exist in infinite dimensions and in some parts you're you still know the truth in most parts you may not know the truth does that make sense okay remember this remember this there's no way you can ever fool yourself maybe you can fool everyone in the world but you cannot fool yourself okay so virgil in his heart he does know that um it is not true that pagans cannot go to heaven it is not true at all he knows that but he does not want to admit it to dante because he's more he's more concerned about his face than he is about the truth okay doesn't make sense uh yes but that still doesn't explain why doesn't why so humble about him worshiping him he's not humble he's just annoyed okay okay so imagine this okay like imagine this so we've been here for two weeks

okay and then and then what was your name okay ivy okay 20 years later we ivy and i run into each other um in new york city who paris who cares okay but like we're walking the streets and like and like i'm walking and like she sees me and like she recognized me and says hey uh professor jiang uh you remember me i'm like i don't remember you uh and then she's like oh and then she goes on like oh we we took the seminar and like yeah i remember you you you you know you were shy you were very smart yeah sure and i'm very happy because she remembers me and obviously the course had a huge huge impact on her and i asked her so ivy uh what are you doing now and she says oh i'm teaching dante at harvard or or yale okay what do i do now sorry i have

i have an appointment see you later ivy okay i'm not why would i do that like sorry uh i have an appointment right now i'll talk to you later

why would i do that well if you're virgil then i guess you're jealous but if you'd be dante then you'd be happy for her right so it's my problem you think well yeah i mean you could be happy for her but you can also be jealous

that you didn't make it that far yeah i mean i think everyone would be a bit jealous right it's not like dante or virgil it's just like human nature it's just human nature yeah okay so so again that's why i said like virgil's cannot be created he can only be summoned because his reaction is so human right okay it's very hard to make something like this up you you you need to have like seen it yourself to under to appreciate this okay does it doesn't make sense okay so virgil is really angry and really jealous at status because status has reached um heaven

but it's also it's also in about the it's kind of like a burden right because he says there's no need you're a shade a shade is what you see i'm like like he the studies puts like a burden on virgil and virgil can't really deal with that because like he can't deal with the with the love of stat yeah and it's also like absurd right

you're both like shades right so if you kneel down i can't actually feel you kissing my feet

like this is absurd yes i guess the other thing other than summoning virgil that he could have done in real life if dante met beatrice's husband so the historically she married she died young but married like a banker yeah that's right so it's like if the banker came to maybe dante felt this for one second like the bank came to dante like i'm your biggest fan of all time and he's like well you married my one true love and then she died so like how much can you i don't really care

that you're my fan or upset yeah yeah it's just human nature okay and that's why the line comedy is something that resonates with you okay you just feel it's true and it gives you tremendous insight into yourself as well as uh human nature and you know it's just a natural reaction right um okay the other thing i will point out is okay okay we'll we'll keep on reading 21 okay

oh 22 now yeah sure kanto 22 the angel now has left behind us he who had directed us to six terrorists having erased one p that scarred my face he had declared that those who long for justice have been killed and his voice concluded that message with sitiunt without the rest and while i climbed behind the two swift spirits not laboring at all for i was lighter than i had been along the other stairs virgil began love that is kindled by virtue virtue will in another find reply as long as that love's flame appears without so from the time when juvenile descending among us and hell's limbo had made plain the fondness that you felt for me my own benevolence towards you has been much richer than any ever given to a person one has not seen thus now these stairs seem short but tell me and as a friend forgive me if excessive candor

lets my reins relax and as a friend exchange your words with me how is it that you found within your breast a place for avarice when you possess the wisdom you had nurtured with such care these words at first brought something of a smile to statias then he answered every word you speak to me is a dear sign of love indeed true causes are concealed we often face deceptive reasoning and things provoke perplexity in us your question makes me sure that you're convinced perhaps because my circle was the fifth that in the life i once left avarice had been my sin no then that i was far from avarice it was my lack of measure thousands of months have punished and if i had not corrected my assessment by my understanding what your verses meant when you as if it raged by human nature exclaimed why cannot you a holy hunger for gold respond to

me and i am not the only one who is not the only one who is drain the appetite of mortals i'd now while rolling weights no sorry jousts then i became aware that hands might open too wide like wings and spending of and of this as of my other sins i did repent how many are to rise again with heads crop clothes whom ignorance prevents from reaching repentance in and at the end of life and know that when a sin is countered by another fault directly opposite to it then hear both sins see their green wither thus i join those who pay for avarice in my words but i am going to go now into a light on that which is the Holy Spirit's divinest of all nations so then i will go now into a light and will bless the holy spirit that has come forward you see that there is nothing to be

worried about or to be afraid of you start the prayer that i am going to recite your spirit is like a spirit that changes the inside and out within you see that you are a spirit that even though you were able to open the to drink within parnassus's caves and you the first two after god enlightened me you did as he who goes by night and carries the lamp behind him he's of no help to his own self but teaches those who follow when you declared the ages are renewed justice and man's first time on earth return from heaven a new progeny descends through you i was a poet and through you a christian but that you may see more plainly i'll set my hand to color what i sketch okay all right so um so virgil asked

sadius why are you in the terrace of avarice and sadius replied okay you may think that i was greedy in life but i was the opposite in fact i was wasteful but it's the laws of nature that one extreme that you the two extremes are basically the same thing okay so if you are really greedy but if you are very wasteful it's the same thing and so the punishment is the same okay and then um what virgil asked him is how did you come to this place because in virgil's understanding only christians are allowed access to heaven and what virgil sorry what sadius says is well i convert it secretly yeah i convert it secretly um and who convinced him to convert to Christianity you are...

well yet poets and to you a christian yeah this is a paradox right we know

virgil is not a christian in fact he's an anti -christian almost and so sad is he saying like for you i became a poet and we know because he keeps on quoting the inead okay he just memorized the inead he just he keeps on quoting the in the end he says like for you i've been able to trust the walrus to become a christian but we know the iniad how does this make any sense yeah yeah using any it's

the structure of empire that has kind of made it all kind of spread so powerfully okay maybe

okay anyone else yes the mercy of christ becomes so much more apparent that it's the true way and it's like the divine truth when you're immersed in the in need so in the final moment when ania i'm not finding but the major moment where neos kills turnus if you're really moved by that and you meditate on that moment for a long time and you think what would it have to be for turnus for for a neist not to kill turnus what mercy would he have had to have that would have turned you

made you look for a preacher that would have changed your mind yeah that's that's great that's fantastic okay that's exactly what status is saying here i read the in the ad and the themes and ideas that you um tell in the in the ad convinced me that i must turn to christ but okay didn't virgil write the in the ad so why didn't why didn't virgil embrace christianity the way that status embraced christianity versus a poet status is a reader what's going on here it's like he changed the

ending like virgil ruined the ending of the aeneid which made it so powerful for empire but ruined what could have been the christian prelude yeah but you just said that they moved status to

convert to christianity what's going on here it can move everybody except virgil he's like the

unluckiest guy in the world where is this luck well maybe it's i don't know anyone else he also

follows saying in 74 that but that you may see more plainly i set my hand to color what i sketch oh no no no he's trying to explain his life oh okay yeah yeah yeah he'll explain his life story

and how the exact details of how he converted okay so let's try to figure this out okay all right so remember the poets are channeling the divine fire the holy fire okay and the poetry is meant to um capture the holy fire so that others can be illuminated by it okay so you're trying to create this vessel um but we have free will so we can do whatever we want and then virgil became seduced by power so he turned this vessel into a weapon for empire okay but but the so basically before the vessel was meant to be like a um like a glass where everyone can just feel the light but now it's like this bronze vessel a weapon okay but the holy fire is so strong that there are things that leak out and if you're willing if you are a receptive enough reader you're able to still feel that light and that

light will draw you to christianity doesn't make sense okay but the poet has committed evil and sin by trapping the holy fire and so the poet um um is convinced that this vessel that this weapon he's created is actually for good reasons and so this kind of dissonance blinds the poet from seeing the holy light does that make sense guys okay that's why stadius can be converted by the iniat but virgil cannot be converted by the iniat okay fred did you want to add something or it just i keep my mind keeps going back to the moment when

aeneas sees palace's sword belt and in the aeneid that's so um the aeneid portrays like aeneas he's really sad he's really upset he's so close to showing mercy to turnus but then he sees the sword belt of his friend this young man and he sees the sword belt of his friend this young man guy palace who turnus had killed and it's almost it's like the divine light leaking out it's like virgil going i wish i could i wish i had written i wish i want to write it the aeneas shows mercy but it's almost like seeing the sword belt of one of your comrades is the is empire yeah it's like the people that come before you you're trying to propagate your empire for them and that's what makes him change so it's like virgil's trying to say that he wished he wished he hadn't written that but he did and he did and he

did and he did and he did and he did and he did and he did and he

just did yeah and virgil did say he didn't he wished he didn't write that because he wanted to burn the manuscript right so so yeah so that's what's going on here okay all right let's let's

keep on reading line 76 disseminated by the messages messengers of the eternal kingdom the true faith by then had penetrated all the world and the new preachers preached in such accord with what you'd said and i have just repeated that i was drawn into frequenting them then they appeared to me to be so saintly that when domitian persecuted them my own laments accompanied their grief and while i could as long as i had live i helped them and their honest practices made me disdainful of all other sects before within my poem i'd led the greeks onto the streams of thebes i was baptized but out of fear i was a secret christian and for a long time showed myself as pagan for this half -heartedness for more than four centuries i circled the fourth circle and now may you who lifted up the lid that hid from me the good of which i speak while

time has left us as we climb tell me where's our ancient terror and to celia's and plautus where is various if you know tell me if they're damned and in what quarter all these in purchase i and many other my guide replied are with that greek to whom the muses gave their gifts in greatest measure our place is the blind prison its first circle and there we often talk about the mountain where those who were our nurses always dwell your reputations is with us antiphon simonides and agathon as well as many other greeks who once wore laurel upon their brow and the greeks who once wore laurel upon their brow and the greeks who once wore laurel upon their brow and the greeks and their of your own people once the antigone day feel it is many sad still argia as she was there one can see the woman who showed langia and their to

to razia's daughter there's fetus and with her sisters their data mia both poets now were silent once again intent on their surroundings they were free of stairs and walls with days first four handmaidens already left behind and with the fifth guiding the chariot pull and lifting it so that its horn of flame rose always in front of them is higher my master said i think it's time that we turn our right shoulders toward the terrace edge circling the mountain in the way we're used to in this way habits served us as a banner and when we chose that path our fear was less because that worthy soul gave his ascent those two were in the lead i walked alone behind them listening to their colloquy which taught me much concerning poetry but their delightful conversation soon was interrupted by a tree that blocked our path its fruits were fine their scent was sweet and even

as a fir tree tapers upward from branch to branch that tree there tapered downward so as i think to ward off any climber upon our left where wall enclosed our path rich bright running water fell from the high rock and spread itself upon the leaves above when the two poets had approached the tree a voice emerging from within the leaves cried out this food shall be denied to you then it cried mary's care is not enough it was for the marriage feast being seemingly and complete not for her mouth which now would intercede for you and when they when they drank of old the roman women were satisfied with water and young daniel through his disdain of food acquired wisdom the first age was as fair as gold when hungry men found the taste of acorns good when thirsty they found that every little stream was nectar when he was in the wilderness the baptist

had fed on nothing more than honey locust for this he was made great as glorious as in the gospel is made plain to you okay so they arrive

in a terrace of gluttony and the glutton in the terse of gluttony there's a tree with lots of fruit and the sinners just look at it and they're not able to touch it and they become much more hungry and as it may say that over time okay so really important point is there's a paradox right how is status who is a pagan how is he able to ascend heaven and what he tells Virgil is well I converted secretly no one knows this but I converted secretly and yeah that was lazy of me that was slothful that's so lack of faith and that's why I was in the terrace of sloth for four centuries and this seems as though this relieves the paradox right the soft spellers work because he converted secretly well the problem here okay let's go to paradise 20 you the paradise 20 everyone and in paradise 20 there is going to be

to be an eagle okay and then this eagle are the great kings of time okay including David and one of them one of these people is with yes okay with yes and with yes is a Trojan a Tyrian what's THE PROBLEM? there's no way this could've happened right is this this is not just before the time of Jesus it's also people rule of time of the Hebrews man so like this is really confusing now for us okay so can we read color disco to go please 20 and we'll skip to galactic worship 37 okay... 27... 18... This is the ego of light talking to Dante and saying, like, who is the most worthy to be inside me, okay? Mine, 37.

He who gleams in the center of my eyes' pupil, he was the singer of the Holy Spirit who bore the ark from one town to another. Now he has learned the merit will can earn. His song had not been spurred by grace alone, but his own will in part had urged him on. Of those five flames that arching for my brow, he who is nearest to my beak is one who comforted the widow for her son. Now he has learned the price one pays for not following Christ through his experience of this sweet life and of its opposite.

Okay, so there are certain individuals within this ego who are divine and holy, okay? The first one is David. That makes sense. Second one is Trajan, who is a Roman emperor. Let's keep on going. 49.

49. And he whose place is next on the circumference of which I speak along the upward arc delayed his death through truthful penance, now he has learned that the eternal judgment remains unchanged, though a worthy prayer below makes what falls to you today take place tomorrow.

Okay, so Trajan converted to Christianity, yes. Okay, that makes sense. Keep on going.

55. The next two follows one whose good intention bore evil fruit to give place to the shepherd with both the lost and me made himself Greek. Now he has learned that even though the world be ruined by the evil that derives from his good act, that evil does not harm him. He whom you see, along the downward arc was William, and the land that mourns his death for living Charles and Frederick now laments. Now he has learned how heaven loves the just ruler, and he would show his this outwardly as well, so radiantly visible. Who in the erring world below would hold that he who was the fifth among the lights that formed the circle was the Trojan Rufus. Now he has learned much that the world cannot discern of God's own grace, although his sight cannot divine not reach its deepest sight. As if it were, where a lark at large in air, a

lark that sings at first and then falls still, content with final sweetness that fulfills, such seems -

Okay, stop, okay, all right. So again, this makes sense until we get to the fifth and last person who is Rufus. And what the eagle says is like, okay, well, Rufus, he was born before the time of Jesus, so he could not convert it. Trojan was born after Jesus, so he could not convert it. How do we explain Rufus? This is a huge paradox, right? Again, it's one thing for Stadius to convert secretly, and then he goes to purgatory, then through 500 years of penance, he climbs to heaven. But up here in paradise is Rufus, a Trojan who was born before the time of both the Hebrews and of Jesus, and he makes it to heaven. How is this possible? Okay. For, yeah. Um, uh, yes.

I mean, that just shows, like, Virgil, uh, Dante's democratic sense, right? Everyone can make it to heaven if they really will it, like, if they really want to.

Okay, okay. But Rufus couldn't have willed it because he didn't even know heaven exists, right? He didn't know Jesus exists. He didn't know God exists. He doesn't know that stuff.

Yeah, but you can still follow your intuition and know what's good and right. Like, you don't need the knowledge of heaven. You just need to be a good human. Exactly. Okay.

Does that make sense? Okay, so that's what Dante is saying. It's revolutionary, okay? It can really counteract the point that Virgil makes, which is, like, you have to be a Christian in order to make it to heaven. So let me ask you this question. Why is Virgil so adamant? Why is he so focused on this world? And why is Dante like, actually, no?

Because it's basically his mask or excuse of not making it to heaven. He's like, oh, they kind of excluded me because I was just born at a wrong time, okay? It's not my fault. Like, Jesus was so much later than me. It's, you know, taking the blame off him. But then now everybody else way older than him, before him, who had never met Jesus, or the concept of Hebrews, they went to heaven. It's like kind of a slap in the face. It's like, you're just basically not a good enough guy, okay? Like, to make it to heaven, face it, guy. Like, don't, you know.

Yeah.

Find excuse.

Exactly. So he's constantly excusing himself, right? He'd rather, again, burn in hell than just to admit he's wrong. Riffius is interesting because who creates Riffius' character? Virgil. Dante only knows about Riffius because of Virgil. Can we Google this? Let's Google Riffius and see what comes up, okay? Oh. Okay, okay. So just read, not the comedy, the, sorry. Can we go back? Okay. Yeah, just read that part, okay?

Riffius was a Trojan hero in the name of a figure from the Aeneid of Virgil.

Okay, this is why we know this guy. Virgil created this guy, okay? And quite honestly, all Virgil says is, he is the most virtuous of all the Trojans. That's the entire line in the Aeneid. He's not a major character, okay? So can we write what Virgil writes? Just open up, you know.

Virgil writes, uniquely the most just of all the Trojans, the most faithful preserver of equity, but the gods decided otherwise.

Okay, so this is a jab at Virgil, right? Virgil says, yeah, he's the wisest, the most just of the Trojans, and the gods didn't care. And Dante's like, no, the gods do care. Thank you very much. If you are righteous, if you are just, if you're virtuous, you will always go to heaven regardless of time and space. Regardless of your belief. Okay? Regardless of what Virgil says. Okay? So again, the divine comedy is a rejection of Virgil, but is also born of Virgil. Okay? It's like the father -son relationship. Okay. Let's go back to purgatory.

One. Oh, I think are we done with this one? Yes. Yeah, we're done. Yeah.

23. Okay. So you can see how clever Dante is, right? He doesn't tell you outright, but he gives you these clues. And once you put the clues together, the answer is pretty obvious.

Canto 23. When I was peering so intently through the green boughs, like a hunter who so used would waste his life in chasing after birds, my more than father said to me, Now come, son, for the time our journey can commit is to be used more fruitfully than this. I turned my eyes, and I was no less quick to turn my steps. I followed those two sages whose talk was such, my going brought no less. And there, la be a man domine, was wept and sung and heard in such a manner that it gave birth to both delight and sorrow. O gentle father, what is this I hear asked? And he, perhaps, there shades who go loosening the knot of what they owe, even as pensive pilgrims do, who, when they've overtaken folk unknown to them along the way, will turn but will not stop. So overtaking us, they had come from behind but were more swift, a crowd of souls.

Devout and silent looked at us in wonder. Each shade had dark and hollow eyes. Their faces were pale and so emaciated that their taut skin took its shape from bones beneath. I don't believe that even Erechzothon had been so dried down to his very hide by hunger when his fast made him fear most. Thinking, I told myself, I see the people who lost Jerusalem when Mary plunged her beak into her son. The orbits of their eyes seemed like a ring that's lost its gems, and he who... Who, in the face of man, would read Omo, would here have recognized the M. Who, if he knew not how, would have believed that longing born from odor of a tree, odor of water, could reduce soul so. I was already wondering what had so famished them, for I had not learned the reason for their leanness and sad scurf.

When there, a shade, his eyes deep in his head, turned toward me, staring steadily, and then he cried aloud, what grace has granted me. I never would have recognized him by his face, and yet his voice made plain to me what his appearance had obliterated. This spark rekindled in me everything I knew about those altered features. Thus, I realized it was Pharaes' face. Ah, don't reproach me for the dried out scabs that stained my skin, he begged, nor for the lack of flesh on me, but do tell me the truth about yourself. Do tell me who those two souls there are, those who are escorting you. May you not keep yourself from speaking to me.

Okay, stop, okay. All right, so Pharaes, Pharaes, Bonatti, Pharaes, Bonatti, he is actually Donnie's childhood best friend. He's also a poet, and they enjoy making fun of each other through their poetry. Pharaes' sister is Picarda. We met Picarda in heaven. His brother's also Corso, okay? Corso is the brother who adopted Picarda from the convent, because Corso was intent on power. And Corso will eventually die and burn in hell, okay? But Pharaesi is a very important character.

Line 55. Your face, which I once wept on when you died, I answered to him. Now it gives me no less cause for sad lament, seeing you so deformed. But tell me, for God's sake, what has unleaved you so? And don't make me speak while I'm amazed, he whose distracted answers clumsily. And he to me, from the eternal counsel, the water and the tree you left behind, received the power that makes me waste away. All of these souls who, grieving, sing because their appetite was gluttonous, and thirst and hunger, here, resent by themselves. The fragrance of the fruit and of the water that sprayed through that green tree kindles with us craving for food and drink. And not once only, as we go around the space, are pains renewed. I speak of pain, but I should speak of solace. For we're guided to those trees by that same longing that had guided Christ when he

had come to free us through the blood he shed, and in his joyousness called out Eli. And I to him. From that day, when you exchanged the world for better life until now, less than five years have evolved. And if you waited for the moment when the power to sin was gone, before you found the hour of the good grief that suckers us and wets us once again to God, how have you come so quickly here? I thought to find you down below, where time must pay for time. And he to me, it is Mynella, who, with her abundant tears, has guided me to drink the sweet wormwood of torments. She. Who, wise in prayers devout, has set me free of that slope where one waits, and has freed me from circles underneath the circle. She, my gentle widow, whom I loved most dearly, was all the more beloved and prized by God, as she's more alone in her good works.

For even the Barbagea of Sardinia is far more modest in its women than that Barbagea when I loved her. Oh, sweet brother, what would you have had me say? A future time's already visible to me, a time not too far off from now, when from the pulpit, it shall be forbidden for me to say, I have been given to those immodest ones, Florentine women, to go displaying bosoms with bare paps. What ordinances, spiritual, civil, were ever needed by barbarian or Saracen women to make them go covered? But if those shameless ones had certain knowledge of what swift heaven's readying for them, then they would have mouths open now to howl. For if our foresight here does not deceive me, they'll be sat before the cheeks of those whom lullabies can now appease grow beards. Ah, brother, do not hide things any longer. You see that I am not alone, for all these people stare at where you veil the sun.

At this I said to him, If you should call to mind what you have been with me, and I with you remembering now will still be heavy, he who precedes me turned me from that life some days ago, when she who is the sister of him, I pointed to the sun, was showing her roundness to you. It is he who has led me through the deep night of the truly dead with this true flesh that follows after him. His help has drawn me up from there, climbing and circling round this mountain, which makes straight you whom the world made crooked. And he says that he will bear me company until I reach the place where Beatrice is. There I must remain without him. It is Virgil who speaks to me in this way. And I pointed to him, this other is the shade for

whom just now your kingdom caused its every slope to tremble as it freed him from itself.

So, Darnay meets his childhood best friend, and he's ecstatic to see Forese again, right? But he's confused. And he asks Forese, I thought you were supposed to wait and end the purgatory for a long, long time. It's been five years since your death, and already you made it really high up. And like, how is this possible, Forese? And what does he, Forese, say? His widow, Nella, right, prayed every day for him. And because Nella was particularly virtuous and beloved by God, then Forese was able to climb up very, very high. Okay? And this explains why there are certain infants in paradise, right? Because their parents were really virtuous and prayed for them every single day. Okay. Let's keep on going to Psalm 24, please.

Our talking did not slow our pace, our pace not slowing our talking, but conversing we moved quickly like a boat a fair wind drives. And recognizing that I was alive, the shades, they seemed to be things twice dead, through amazement from the hollows of their eyes. And I, continuing my telling, added, perhaps he's more slow in his ascent than he would had he not met the other. But tell me if you can, where's Picarda? And tell me if among those staring at me, I can see any person I should note. My sister, and I know not whether she was greater in her goodness or her beauty on high Olympus, is in triumph. She rejoices in her crown already. He began, then added, it is not forbidden to name each shade here. Abstinence has eaten away our faces. And he pointed, this is Bonajunta, Bonajunta de Luca, the one beyond him, even more emaciated than the rest, had clasped the holy church.

He was from Tor, his fast purchased Bolsana's eels, Renaccia's wine. And he named many others one by one. And at their naming, they all seemed content. So that for this, no face was overcast. I saw their teeth were biting emptiness, both Ubaldin de la Pila and Bonaface, who shepherded so many with his staff. I saw Messer Marchese, who once had more ease, less dryness, drinking it poorly, and yet could never satisfy his thirst. But just as he looks and then esteems one more than another, so did I prize him of Luca, for he seemed to know me better. He murmured, something like Gentuca, was what I heard from the place where he could feel the wound of justice that denudes them so. Also, I said, who seems so eager to converse with me, do speak so that I hear you, for speech may satisfy both you and me. He answered, although men condemn my city, there is a woman born.

She wears no veil as yet, because of whom you'll find it pleasing. You're to journey with this prophecy as if there's something in my murmuring you doubt. Events themselves will bear me out. But tell me if the man whom I see here is he who brought the new rhymes forth. Beginning, ladies who have intelligence of love. I answered, I'm one who, when love breathes in me, takes note, what he within dictates, I in that way without, would speak and shape. Oh brother, now I see. He said, the knot that kept the notary, Guitone and me short of the sweet new manner that I hear. I clearly see how your pence follow closely behind him who dictates. And certainly that did not happen with our pence. And he who sets himself to ferreting profoundly can find no other difference between the two styles. He fell still contentedly.

Even as birds that winter on the Nile at times will slow and form a flock in air, then speed their flight and form a file. So all the people who are mere moved, much more, much more swiftly, turning away their faces, hurrying the pace because of leanness and desire. And just as he who's tired of running, lets his comrades go ahead and slows his steps until he's eased the panting of his chest. So did Ferese let the holy flock pass by and move behind with me saying, how long before I shall see you again? I do not know. I said, how long I'll live. And yet, however quick is my return, my longing for these shores would have me here sooner. I do not know. I said, how long I'll live. And yet, however quick is my return, my longing for these shores would have me here sooner. I do not know. I said, how long I'll live.

And yet, however quick is my return, my longing for these shores would have me here sooner. Because the place where I was set to live is day by day deprived of good and seems along the way to wretched ruin. Do not be vexed, he said. For I can see the guiltiest all dragged by a beast's tail to the valley where no sin is purged. At every step, the beast moves faster, always gaining momentum till it smashes him and leaves his body squalidly undone. Those wheels, and here he looked up at the sky, do not have long to turn before you see plainly what I can't tell you more openly. Now you remain behind, for time is costly here in this kingdom. I should lose too much by moving with us thus at equal pace. Just as a horseman sometimes gallops out, leaving behind his troop of riders so that he

may gain the honor of the first clash, so with longer strides did he leave us, and I remained along my path with those two who were such great marshals of the world. And when he'd gone so far ahead of us and that my eyes strained to follow him, just as my mind was straining after what he'd said. The branches of another tree, heavy with fruit, alive with green, appeared to me nearby, just past the curve where I had turned. Beneath the tree I saw shades lifting hands, crying, I know not what up toward the branches, like little eager empty -headed children who begged, but he of whom they begged does not reply, but to provoke their longing he holds high and does not hide the thing they want. Then they departed as if disabused, and we immediately reached that great tree which turns aside so many parts, prayers and tears. Continue on, but don't draw close to it.

There is a tree above from which Eve ate, and from that tree above this plant was raised. Among the boughs a voice, I know not who spoke so, thus drawing close, Virgil Stasius, and I esched on, along the side that rises. It said, Remember those with double chests, the miserable ones born of the clouds, whom Thysias battled when they gorged themselves, and those whom Gideon refused as comrades, those Hebrews who had drunk too avidly when he came down the hills to Midian. So, keeping close to one of that road's margins, we moved ahead, hearing of gluttony had since prepaid by sorry penalties. Then, with more space along the lonely path, a thousand steps and more had brought us forward, each of us meditating wordlessly. What are you thinking of, you three who walk alone? A sudden voice called out, at which I started, like a scared young animal. I raised my hat

to see who it might be, no glass or metal ever seen within a furnace was so glowing, or so red, as one I saw who said, If you'd ascend, then you must turn at this point, for whoever would journey unto peace must pass this way. But its appearance had deprived me of my sight, so that as one who used its hearing as guide, I turned and followed my two teachers, and like the breeze of May, that heralding the dawning of the day, when it steeped in flowers and in grass, stirs fragrantly, so did I feel the wind that blew against the center of my body, and clearly sent the movement of his wings the air's ambrosia. And then I heard, Blessed are those who grace lumens so that in their breasts the love of taste does not awake too much desire, whose hungering is always in just measure.

So, so, Du, this is your dream, right? You told us you had a dream of a tree calling to you, but there's a river that blocked the way, and the tree was talking to you. And now we have a similar situation, right? Where? This is a tree with the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, and everyone can only look at it longingly, and the tree talks to them, but you can never eat the fruit. What do you think? Is your dream similar to what's going on? So, so why do you think you had the dream? No, no, no, no, I'm saying like, why do you think you had the dream?

I'm still trying to figure it out, but like, if I, if I, if I have to take a guess that like, I'm not I'm looking for a change in my life right now. And, um, and I've been thinking about like this, uh, to all the classes that I, I took during this, this seminar and about like imagination and love and, and especially like, uh, during, like, I, I feel, I felt pretty comfortable when we, in the paradise, right? But as, but like, once we enter the hill and the purgatory, I, it made me to reflect on my past life about all the wrongs I did to other people and stuff. So maybe it's a way for me to seek redemption or something like that.

Do you think when you had the dream, you saw the future? Did you see the future in your dream? Well, I, I, I think he had what we might call momentum in Indra's net.

So like all of the images we've been learning before primed him and that his dream basically preempted what would follow in the poem because the poem was so close, a copy of these wonderful images that are in Indra's net. So like everything we had been thinking about had led him up to this. And it's like, he just turned up to class early, you know, in a sense.

Okay, that's interesting.

It didn't feel like I'm like, experience the future. I mean, the sense of time seems like didn't exist in the in my dream. Right, right, right. It's like all past and present and future matched up together.

Right. But like, that's what we said in the universal unconscious, right? Which beyond time and space, it's all happening at once. Okay. Are you surprised at all by this? You? You? You dreamt of the scene yesterday. And now we're talking about the scene. And we're trying to decipher your dream through the scene.

Not surprised, honestly, but like, I feel I feel it's like it's destiny is that it's destiny to be like this.

Has anyone had a dream that was basically of the future? So this happens to you a lot. Okay. Give us an example.

Um, it's nothing like special, but sometimes it's just like, when I enter like, a building a hall or I just had a lunch with with a with a like, with a with a stranger. And it just clicks. I was like, Oh, I knew what happened like, five, five minutes, five minutes later, or like, like, an hour later. Yeah. Okay. Brad, do you?

I just had some very strange ones where like, I had an ex girlfriend, and I dreamt that her body had become like fully fertile. And she was trying to feed me from her in large breasts. And then like two days, I had not spoken to her for many months. And then two days later, she like calls me. And it was like, one of the craziest moments of my life. Yeah, but this happens a lot. Well, when I counted as a lot, it, it feels like I'm saying like, what I meant is, I'm saying it happens

to a lot to you. But I'm saying like, it's actually pretty common in the world, right? Yeah, yeah.

I went to Malaysia the night before I visited my godmother's house. She had a dream from God saying, I'm gonna bring you a daughter and she was 40 something. She's like, there's no way I'm gonna have a daughter. Now I'm gonna be Sarah. And next day, I came to her house. She's like, Ah, you're the kid. And so they accepted me immediately. And then she told me long after about this.

Yeah, I mean, like, isn't it very common that you think of a friend, right? And then your friend calls you the next day, or next week. It's very common, man. Right? We've all had this experience. If you have someone that person just calls you and says, Hey, I was thinking of you and I wanted to blah, blah, blah. Okay. All right. So again, this gives credit to the idea of the universal unconscious. All right. Okay, let's keep on going.

Kanto 25. The hour when climbers cannot pause had come the sun had left to Taurus the meridian and night had left it to the scorpion. Therefore, like one who will not stop but moves along his path no matter what he sees. If he's goaded by necessity, we made our way into the narrow gap and one behind the other took the stairs so straight that climbers there must separate and as the fledgling stork will lift its wings because it wants to fly but dares not try to leave the nest and lets its wing drop back. So I with my desire to question kindled that then spent arrived as far as making ready to speak. But my dear father, though our steps were hurrying did not come to the end of our talking for he said, the iron of the arrows touched the long bow list let the shaft of speech fly off. Then I had confidence

enough to open my mouth and ask him, how can one grow lean when there's never need for nourishment?

Okay, so this is a great question. Okay. So, I thought he saw these shades becoming much more emaciated. Okay. And that is like, wait a minute here. They have no bodies, right? Therefore, you have no need for food. So why would you become emaciated? How do you starve as a soul? This makes no sense. Okay, that's a question that Dante has. All right, so let's see what Virgil says.

Line 22. If you recall how Maligar was consumed, he said just when the firebrand was bent, this won't be hard to understand. And if you think how though your body's lift your image of the mirror captures it, then what perplexed will seem to you transparent, your will to know may be appeased he, Stasius, and all I call on him and ask that he now be the healer of your doubts.

Okay, so what Virgil was saying is, well, so Maligar, Maligar is a story where Maligar, his soul is kept alive by a firewood, and as long as this firewood is not extinguished, as long as this firewood is not broken, then he lives. So what the mother does is hide the firewood so it can never be broken. So Maligard then does something so outrageous that the mother wants to kill him. So then she finds the firewood and then burns it down. And then Maligard dies. So what he's saying is, what you have to understand is a correspondence of things. The correspondence between the body, the soul, and the spirit. So if that one thing happens to one, then the other thing happens to the other. So if your soul is starving, then your body is starving. If your body is starving, so is your soul starving. But what's the problem with this explanation? The body is gone, right?

So this is really confusing. So he doesn't really answer. And he recognizes he doesn't really answer. So he says, let Stadius answer, okay? All right, Stadius, you try now. All right.

Line 31. If I explain eternal ways to him, Stassi has replied, while you were present here, let my excuse be, I cannot refuse you. Then he began, if, son, your mind receives and keeps my word, then what I say will serve as light upon the how. That you have asked. The thirsty veins drink up the perfect blood, but not all of that blood, a portion's left, like leavings that are taken from the table. Within the heart, that part acquires power to form all of another's human limbs. As blood that flows through veins feeds one's own limbs, digested yet again, that part descends to what is best not named. From there, it drips into the natural receptacle upon another's blood. The two bloods makes one ready to be passive and one active because of perfect. The heart prepared them. The active having reached the passive starts to work. First, it coagulates and then quickens the matter it has made more dense.

Having become a soul, much like a plant, though with this difference, the plant's complete, whereas the fetus still is journeying. The active virtue labors, so the fetus may move and feel like a sea sponge. And then it starts to organize the powers that seed it. At this point, son, the power that had come from the getter's heart unfolds and spreads, that nature may see every limb perform. The animal becomes a speaking being you've not yet seen this point so hard. It led one wiser than you are to earn separating from the possible intellect, the soul, since he could see no organ for the mind. So did he teach open your heart to truth. We now have reached and know that once the brain's articulation within the fetus has attained perfection, then the first mover turns toward it with joy on seeing so much art in nature and breeze into it.

New spirit vigorous, which was all that. The soul is active in the fetus into its substance and becomes one soul that lives and feels and has self -consciousness that what I say may leave you less perplexed. Consider the sun's heat that when combined with sap with that flows from vines is then made wine and when the key says lacks more threat than souls divide from the flesh. Potentially it bears with it a human and divine, but with the human powers mute, the rest intelligence and memory and will are more acute in action than they were. With no delay. The soul falls of itself astonishingly on one of two shores there. It learns early what way it will journey there once the soul is circumscribed by space. The power that gives for me radiates as and as much as once it formed life limbs and even as the saturated air since it reflects the rays the sun has sent takes rainbow colors as its ornament.

So there where the soul stopped, the nearby air takes on the form that soul impressed on it, a shape that is potentially real. And then just as the flame will follow after the fire whenever fire moves so that new form becomes the spirit's follower, since from that airy body it takes on its semblance that soul is called shade. That shape forms organs for each sense even for sight. This airy body lets us speak and laugh. With it we form the tears and sigh the sighs that you perhaps have heard around this mountain. Just as we are held fast by longings and by other sentiments, our shade takes form. This is the cause of your astonishment.

Okay, so let me explain what he's saying here, okay? And this goes back to the idea of the morphic fields that we discussed earlier, okay? So what he's saying is this. We know how the fetus turns into a baby which turns into a body, right? That makes sense, okay? So the baby is in the womb and at some point the fetus becomes a baby, okay? That is his biology. The problem is consciousness. How does consciousness happen? And so what he's saying is this. At a certain point, the baby is so developed, okay? The baby is so developed that God can now smile upon it. And when God smiles upon it, what happens is that these universal unconscious that we've discussed, what it does is that it creates a soul inside the baby, okay? Does that make sense? As the baby develops limbs and the full shape of the body, the soul itself starts to take shape as well, okay?

And we think that the soul, oh, it's a spark in us or it's part of the brain. No, it's actually the body itself, okay? Okay? Okay? Okay? That's what we call morphic fields. Morphic fields. So think as though your body is now emitting energy fields, okay? And that's how Francois was able to easily notice when Edward turned around, okay? Does that make sense? Because there are fields around you that feel the world spiritually around you and connect you to the universal consciousness, okay? So what happens is that... Okay? Okay? Okay? These fields are now resembling your body, okay? So each part of your body has its own field. Your organs have their own fields. Even when your body decomposes, these fields are still around that mimic your old body. And as such, you can still feel the way that your old body used to feel. Not as much, but there's still some elements to it.

Not as much, but there's still some elements to it. That's how your body is. That's how people are able to feel pain, both in hell and in purgatory. It doesn't make sense, guys. All right? Yes?

What about the souls in heaven? Do they also have like this...

Excuse me?

What about the souls in heaven? Yeah, yeah.

So this is what we learn in paradise, right? What happens in heaven is like once you ascend to the divine light, all these fields have returned home. So what they... So what they do is they bend to fit heaven now. Does it make sense? Before these fields bend it to fit your body, once you go home to heaven because of divine light, they now bend to fit the divine light. And so you lose basically the body form completely, okay? As a shade, you have like half -half. But once you return to heaven, then you become part of the divine unity again. All right? So that's what he's saying here. Any questions about this? Yes?

Then, so is it the soul or the body that feels hunger when you're starving? Is it... Oh, excuse me? Is it the soul or the body that feels hunger? Because... Well, normally you would say it's the body needs food, so it like says to the brain, I need food. But in your... In that perception, it'd be different. Okay.

So on... On earth, when we starve, it's a physical reaction, right? It's a physical reaction. Does it make sense? If your body doesn't have food, the organs break down and you die, okay? But in purgatory, it's a different process. So the idea is that these... This is the gluttony, okay? This is the terraces of gluttony, and there's a tree calling into them and saying, you know, like, you can smell me, you can desire me, but you must resist me. Does that make sense? Okay? So what's happening is not longer at a body level, but a soul level. And so the soul, to demonstrate its longing, yet it's restrained, it becomes much more emaciated, okay? Does that make sense?

So it's a metaphorical fruit that... But it's not... It's not real hunger then, because you...

Okay. Well, they say it would be... It would be real hunger, right? Because only if it's real, does it have any meaning. If you have to feel real pain, real desire for it to have any meaning, right? Okay? So, but you need to understand, like, imagine two dimensions, okay? Your body is existing on one dimension, your soul is existing on another dimension. And here on earth, they both are combined together. But in purgatory, the body loses its physical form. You don't have a body, but the soul still maintains the semblance of the body. So you still hunger, and you can still starve, but in a spiritual way. Does that make sense? So what's happening here is not at a physical level, but at a spiritual level.

Did they have food in the other circles? And the other...

Well, that's what Donnie is saying here. There's no food. There's no need for food. Yes, yes?

Yeah, it makes me think about David's Psalms, that my soul... longs for the Lord as the deer longs for the stream or something. And talking about drinking of this, like, eternal water or whatever, like his soul. So I guess it's kind of the same thing. Like, your soul can thirst for things. And so these ghosts or shadows are longing for the same. And I think there's also a scientific experiment where, like, people who lose a limb, like, your body thinks that you can still control that limb. And then it can... That's how the robot... The robotics can work, right? So all the neurons near that aspect makes your brain still control it. So it's kind of like your soul, as long as it thinks that it still has that body part, you can somehow have that, move it, like, to be able to control it or feel it.

Yeah, it's called phantom limbs, okay? Phantom limbs, okay? Where, like, you lose, actually, your entire arm, but you still, at some level, think it's still there. It's really strange, okay? But you can Google phantom limbs. It's a very common psychological thing, okay? But the idea is this, okay? The idea is that our souls, okay, our souls, they only long for one thing, which is the divine light, okay? To be closer to God, right? That's the divine light. That's what our souls aspire to, the divine light. But the problem is that we're inside bodies, okay? And our bodies... Our souls have senses, which is to say, like, we have these different desires, like, for food, sex, water, okay? And so we can become really confused. We don't know what brings us happiness. Is it lots of sex? Is it a Mercedes? Is it wine? We just become really, really confused. And so that's why we do stupid things.

But once we shed our bodies, then our souls only desire the divine light. Okay? Doesn't make sense. The problem with gluttony is the memory of these things, our desire for these things, are still there. And we want to pay penance for this so our souls engage in a process of emanciation, which is, say, denial of the divine light, in order to compensate for our gluttony on earth. So it's a conscious choice on our part. To starve ourselves in order to pay penance for our gluttony on earth. And how this system works is the tree helps us remember our bodies through sense, right? It gives us, like, the scent of food, and we desire it. But we're souls. We can't actually eat food. And so we have this emanciation going on. Does it make sense to you guys? Okay? And... Okay. All right. Let's keep on going.

109. By now we've reached the final turning we would meet and took the pathway right at which we were preoccupied with other cares. There from the wall the mountain hurls its flames, but from the terrace side there whirls a wind that pushes back the fire and limits it. Thus on the open side, proceeding one by one, we went. I feared the fire on the left and on the right the precipice. My guide said, on this terrace it is best to curve your eyes, the least distraction, left and right. Left or right can mean a step you will regret. Then from the heart of that great conflagration I heard Sumé Dave's Clemenciae sung and was not less keen to turn my eyes. And I saw spirits walking in the flames so that I looked at them and at my steps sharing the time. I had to look at each. After they'd reached that hymn's end, Virum non cognosso were the words they cried aloud.

Then they began the hymn in a low voice again, and done again they cried. Diana kept the woods and banished Helice after she'd felt the force. Then they returned to singing, and they praised aloud those wives and husbands who were chaste as virtue and as matrimony mandate. This is, I think, the way these spirits act as long as they are burned by fire. This is the cure and this the nourishment with which one has to heal the final wound of all.

Okay, all right. So we'll go over by like five minutes. It's fine. Okay, one last question is they are now in the final terrace, which is the Terrace of Lust. What would fire? Like stepping through fire help cure you of lust?

Yes, because if you're a lustful person, you're kind of like consumed by this like burning desire that you have for like other people's body. And then so if you want to purify yourself, you need to be burned. You need to be you need to be able to like withstand the burning fire to withstand your burning desire for like lust.

Okay, that makes sense for. Hell, right? To be punished for your lust through fire. But in purgatory, we want to prepare ourselves for heaven. We want to do penance and prepare ourselves for heaven.

Is it like because some of the times you're also like purified if you're like burned into like a very high temperature, like kind of like pottery and stuff. And I hear purgatory, you're purified through fire, but then how you're just punished. By being burned.

Okay, yes, I think. Lust is not wrong, but the people here, they are kind of abusing the pleasure or like the power of lust so that they need to be they need to correct their path. Okay.

All right. Yeah. So so let's continue the ceramics metaphor. Okay. Why do you have to put your ceramics into fire? To harden it, right? Inhale. Inhale. Inferno. How are the lustful being punished? Yeah, because they are, you know, they're being whipped around, right? Because they are not consistent because they are not hard enough. Do you understand? They're not firm. You understand? So the fire, the entire point of fire is to make you firm. Firming your faith, firming your commitment, firming your devotion. Okay. That's what the fire is doing. Purifying you, but also basically hardening you. Okay. All right. So that's it. That's great. That's it for today. Any questions? Tomorrow? Yes. One last question, Fred.

Just one quick question. There was a line that really confused me earlier this morning, which is you feel delight as nature fashioned you to feel. Is this Dante saying that some people are more ready to experience the love of God while they're alive than others?

No, no, that's not what I'm saying. Okay. In Dante. Nature and God are the same thing. Nature and God are not the same thing. It's really important for us to remember this because in Shakespeare, the same thing. We talked about this yesterday, right? Where Professor Brown was saying, well, nature, naturalistic. I'm like, yeah, but is there a God? He's like, well, naturalistic, right? So in our world, in Shakespeare world, nature is God. But in Dante's world, it's different because nature gives us our bodies, but God gives us our soul. Do you understand? So the soul aspires to divine light, but the, but the body aspires to material pleasures. Okay. Does that make sense? Okay. All right. Thanks guys. So tomorrow's the last class. And so, um, yeah. So, uh, uh, think of how this course has changed you. Okay. And think about how the divine calling has impacted you. And I love the idea that you guys are having more dreams.

Okay. This, this will be really important for tomorrow's discussion. All right. I'll see you ever tomorrow. Bye.