Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)

Naming Dido?

Yeah, he names Dido, okay? Do you understand? Because remember what happened was that Virgil would go on about a thousand different people and he would name all of them, but he would not name Dido because he hates Dido and honestly he's ashamed of what he did to Dido, right? And so Dante, what he's doing is, away from the speech of Virgil, he names Dido somewhere else to restore Dido. Does that make sense? You see that nuance here, right? So it's an act of rebellion, it's an act of defiance that foreshadows paradise, okay? What is to come. All right, keep on going.

Line 82. Even as doves, when summoned by desire, borne forward by their will, move through the air with wings uplifted still to their sweet nest, those spirits left the ranks where Dido suffers, approaching us through the malignant air so powerful had been my loving cry. Verse 88. O living being! O living being, gracious and benign, who through the darkened air have come to visit our souls that stained the world with blood. If he who rules the universe were a friend to us, then we should pray to him to give you peace for you have pitied our atrocious state. Whatever pleases you to hear and speak will please us too to hear and speak with you now while the wind is silent in this place. The land where I was born lies on that shore to which the Po together with the waters that follow it descends to final rest. Loft! Loft that can quickly seize

the gentle heart took hold of him because of the fair body taken from me, how that was done still wounds me. Loft that releases no beloved from loving, took hold of me so strongly through his beauty that as you see it has not left me yet. Loft led the two of us unto one death, Chayinna waits for him who took our life. These words were borne across from them to us. When I had listened to those injured souls, I bent my head and held it low until the poet asked of me.

what are you thinking okay so um virgil says to dante if you really understand how you talk to these different souls okay so dante talks to these two souls these are two people from his own life in italy and they said that well you know we fell in love and um we went we eloped together but my husband found out and he killed us both okay and um so virgil asks what do you think of this okay

and let's let's listen to dante's response line 112 when i replied my words began alas how many gentle thoughts how deep a longing had led them to the agonizing past then i addressed my speech again to them and i began francesca your afflictions moved me to tears of sorrow and of pity but tell me in the time of gentle sighs with what and in what way did love allow you to recognize your still uncertain longings and she to me there's no greater sorrow than thinking back upon a happy time in misery and this your teacher knows yet if you long so much to understand the first root of our love then i shall tell my tale to you as one who weeps and speaks one day to pass the time away we read of lancelot how love had overcome him we were alone and we suspected nothing and time and time again that reading led

our eyes to meet and made our faces pale and yet one point alone defeated us when we had read how the desired smile was kissed by one who was so true a lover this one who never shall be parted from me while all his body trembled kissed my mouth a gal halt indeed that book and he who wrote it too that day we read no more and while one spirit said these words to me the other wept so that because of pity i fainted as if i had met my death and then i fell as a dead

body falls okay all right so the story is that francisca and her lover um at this time in history there's something called courtly love which is like you know just romantic uh you write romantic poetry you declare your love to someone else but you don't consummate it okay um this is very common uh at this time in court love tradition where you profess your love but it's not consummate it's not sexual at all and so francisca and her lover they're reading this poetry uh this row this romance and then they have the urge to kiss each other which pisses off the um the husband and and they both get killed what's the difference between love and lust what is the difference between love and lust a frames of the nefarous child real husband the confessor

and lust uh yes and speaking from definition one is an emotion a thing of soul and the other thing is a thing that is physical but i think in this context it actually means uh love is when you wish the best for someone selfishly and lust is when you wish to possess them okay all right anyone

else so lust also comes from a place of power right of control right anyone else yes uh so

uh love is like a strong emotion where lust is like impulse i think like impulse to to have sex or to to you know like to follow your feelings yes okay so it's impulsive it's

just something you do on the spirit of the moment you do it without reflection okay um but why is that a sin why would that be a bad thing yes because you want to control others

not necessarily right yes uh because the last is the original thing or in the same means that it's just not a real thing just original it means it can cause this thing so maybe last is something which can cause this thing can cause people to make mistake like your your last song means you want to have sex with someone or maybe but that is desire this says desire can let people to do something badly

so like like a rape or whatever yes because when you lust for someone that is an objectification of that person you objectify them they are no longer an individual okay all right can you explain some more for example um like let's say let's example of prostitution right you um if you have lust for let's say a sex worker then you are not treating them in a way that sees them as human but as more like an object so it objects it takes away their sort of the dignity that they

they have as a human right all right so let's carry let's kill this further okay we're trying to figure out what the difference is between love and lust and again it's not that clear you know donnie's completely confused by this that's why donnie is faint is faint because he's like what's going on here i don't really understand why lust would necessarily be a sin right is it possible for you to love someone and then you love someone right you first if you see someone beautiful yeah you're like you know i want her number i i want to go talk to her that's lust but then you talk to her you guys have coffee and you're like wow she's my soul mate now you're in love so is that it doesn't lust lead to love what can someone explain to me what's going on yes um

maybe another part is um i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know lust focuses on the the outward image while love is more about like emotional connection and

getting to know them better yes uh i think lust is based on the flesh it's based on the body but uh love is just based on devotion based on the hope or you know inspiration or something but but i'm

confused right because it's just like like how do you find love in the first place right i mean like yeah yes

if god is love wouldn't love be like you're bringing god into the relationship and then bringing back to the to the fall adam and eve uh ate the apple and they saw they were naked and were ashamed and so you're hiding from god you're in shame you're bringing the ego into

lust yeah okay so so that that's a really so so i'm hearing two really interesting ideas okay first is that lust causes you to objectify which is to simplify and possess someone also love is uh is about giving right it's about letting go of your ego whereas lust is about fulfilling your ego okay but i'm still confused as to why lust would necessarily be a sin why would it be bad right because because like let's because like let's expand this okay heaven is where love is love means no fear right so if it's a sin it is what it's doing is it's causing love to be degraded and it's causing fear to come into place right so that's what a sin is so why would lust do this and again again of all the sins lust we're going to descend down to hell so lust is like the least light of all the sins but

it's still a sin so i'm confused as to why francisca you know she falls in love and she they kiss and then she's killed why it's necessarily her fault what what's what's a sin

here yes um so uh before you mentioned that free will is god's most precious gift to us and when you're lusting over someone you are violating your free will even if it's in your mind like with modern celebrities some people say very rude things about them in comments and even while that is legal it is still a sin because they are already violating these celebrities in their minds

but i mean i'm trying to figure out why loving someone and lusting someone why loving someone would not violate the free will but lusting someone would violate the free will yeah yes

because like lusting someone is more driven by your like physical drive and here like francisca she went over her ability to reason she basically betrayed her husband and that is sinful because it's misordered and love is more like driven by your spiritual connection so it goes beyond lust it's more of your free will because you personally resonate with this specific person but like lust technically anyone who's physically attractive can be so is sex a sin a target is sex the sin no but misorder

sex is okay all right okay all right um yeah um any more thoughts before we continue okay so what i'm hearing is um love is special connection uh less is physical connection uh less is the objectification of someone um love is the appreciation of someone in that person's complexity uh and contradiction and um um less is about possession about controlling someone whereas love is about giving yourself okay so so there are lots of differences okay all right let's let's let's

let's continue canto six upon my mind's reviving it had closed on hearing the lament of those two kindred since sorrow had confounded me completely i see new sufferings new sufferers surrounding me on every side wherever i move or turn about or set my eyes i'm in the third circle filled with cold unending heavy and accursed rain its measure and its kind are never changed gross hailstones water gray with filth and snow comes streaking down across the shadowed air the earth as it receives that shower stinks over the souls of those submerged beneath that mess is an outlandish vicious beast his three throats barking dog -like cerberus his eyes are blood -red breezy black his beard is black and his eyes are blood -red and his face is beard his belly bulges and his hands are claws his talons tear and flay and rend the shades that downpour makes the sinners how like door dogs they

use one of their sides to screen the other those miserable wretches turn and turn when cerberus the great worm noticed us he opened wide his mouth showed us his fangs there was no part of him that did not twitch my guide opened his hands to their full span plucked up some earth and with his fists filled full he hurt it straight into those famished jaws just as a dog that barks with greedy hunger with will then fall quiet when he gnaws his food intent and straining hard to cram it in so were the filthy faces that the demon cerberus transformed after he'd stunned the spirit so they wished that they

were deaf okay so there's cerberus um who's threatening them and then virgil basically feeds them okay so again this gives us the idea that virgil really is the emperor of hell he's able to

control the demons here they keep on going line 34 we walked across the shades on whom their thuds that heavy rain and set our souls upon their empty images that seem like persons and all those spirits lay upon the ground except for one who sat erect as soon as he caught sight of us in front of him oh you who are conducted through this hell he said to me recall me if you can for you before i was unmade were made and i to him it is perhaps your anguish that snatches you out of my memory so that it seems that i have never seen you but tell me who you are you who are set in such a dismal place such punishment if other pains are more and none's more disgusting and he to me your city one soul so full of envy that its sack has always built that city held me in

the sun lit life the name your citizens gave me was choco and for the damning sin of gluttony as you can see i a wretched soul am not alone for all of these have the same penalty for the same sin and he said no more i answered him choco your suffering so waits on me that i'm forced to weep but tell me if you know what end awaits the citizens of that divided city is any just man there tell me the reason why it has been assailed by so much schism and he to me after long controversy they'll come to blood the party of the woods will chase the other out with much offense but then within three suns they too must fail at which the other party will prevail using the powerful one who taxed his sails this party will hold high his its head for long and heap great hates great weight upon

its enemies however much they weep indignantly two men are just but no one listens to them three Sparks that set on fire every heart are envy pride and avariciousness with this his words many tears were done and I to him I would learn more from you I ask you for a gift of further speech to Gaio for Renata men so worthy Arrigo Moscow Jacopo rusticucci and all the rest whose minds bent toward the good do tell me where they are and let me meet them for my great longing drives me on to learn if heaven sweetens or health poisons them and he they are among the blackest souls a different scene a different sin has dragged them to the bottom if you descend so low there you can see them but when you have returned to the sweet world I pray recall me to men's memory I say no more to you answer no more

then his straight gaze grew twisted and awry he looked at me a while then bent his heads he fell as low as all his blind companions and my guide said to me he'll rise no more until the blast of the angelic trumpet upon the coming of the hostile judge each one shall see his sorry tomb again once again take on his flesh and form and hear what shall resound eternally so did we pass across that squalid mixture of shadows and of rain our steps slowed down talking a while about the life to come at which I said and after the great sentence oh master will these torments grow or else be less or will they just be as intense and he to me remember now your science which says that when a thing has more perfection so much the greater is its pain or pleasure though these accursed sinners never shall attain the true perfection

yet they can expect to be more perfect than than now we took the circling way traced by the road we said much more than I can hear recount we reached the point that marks the downward slope here we found Plutus the

great enemy okay so certain points about this passage first of all um uh who Dante is meeting are people he he knew from his life in Florence okay so a lot of his public enemies will be here condemned in in hell um the other thing is um I want to talk about the nature of these punishments in hell what are these punishments trying to do why they construct the way it is because uh we were in a circle of lust and so these people are being whipped around by the wind right now we are in the third circle which is people are being punished for gluttony right and what's your punishment all the rain they're being rained on okayguys skin Rain Would Be a Fitting punishment for gluttony uh yes um so there's a lot of factor here first

of all there's this saying the fires of last so symbolically the rain is meant to put out the firebalast and not so symbolically like imagine you are thirsty because hell is hot and you're standing in the middle of the rain and there is furchio think you are thirsty because hell is hot no water beneath you, there's no jug of water, and you just have to open your mouth and let the raindrops fall into your mouth little by little, little by little, and no matter how much you want it, no matter how much you wave the rain towards you with your hands, no more rain will come than what rain will come. So you can't satisfy your lust.

Okay, well, it's raining for all eternity, right? All right, let's visualize this, okay? What is gluttony? What is gluttony? Yes?

Gluttony is, the narrow sense is eating too much food or eating excessive amounts of food or lavish food, but on a wider definition, it's desiring too much and indulging in excessive pleasures.

Yes, okay, yeah?

Not being able to stop.

Yeah, not stopping, always desiring, just not able to restrain yourself. Okay, that's what gluttony is. Yes. Why would, yes?

How is gluttony different from greed?

How is gluttony different from greed? That's a great question, okay? Anyone? What are you doing with greed? We will actually enter the circle of greed, right? Yes?

Greed might be personal gain at the expense of others. Exactly. But like gluttony is just not being able to control yourself.

That's right, that's right, okay? So greed, you are stealing, you are stealing, you are stealing, and from others, essentially. Does that make sense? Right? Whereas gluttony is, you're just, yes?

Could you say that greed is wanting a lot of things and gluttony is wanting a lot of the same thing?

Well, I mean, like, if you want money, right, you're still greedy, right? It's, right? So like, but like the main issue is greed is you're actually taking from others. Does that make sense? Yes?

I don't know so much about that. Like, to me, it feels like greed is when you take things and gluttony is when you take things and then you consume them. So for example, if you see a person who is overeating, like obviously overeating and wasting food and maybe vomiting it out, you wouldn't say, wow, you're so greedy. You would say, you're a glutton. And if you -

Yeah, but that's what we're saying. Gluttony is like you just want too much. No, no, no. Whereas greedy, you're taking from others.

No, like gluttony is when you take things and you consume them, you reduce them to nothing. And greed is when you take things.

And you're taking these things from where?

Like, there's an extra step after gluttony. That's what I'm trying to point out.

Okay, all right, all right. So let's continue, okay? So gluttony is you want too much and you can never stop from wanting too much. So why would raining on you be the - Punishment. What's the logic of this?

Make you awake and dull you of your desire.

Dull you of your desire, huh? All right, yes?

Be given to you as a punishment. Yes. Like endless rain.

Yes, can you explain this?

So it's kind of like a tooth for a tooth. So if you are gluttonous, you want more and more and more and it never satisfied you, so raining more and more and more on you is like the right punishment for you.

But why would it be the right punishment for you? I understand that that's a punishment, right? But why would that be the right punishment?

Because it never satisfy you. It's just raining on you. You don't consume it or do anything with it.

Do you think people enjoy being rained on?

No.

Right, so what's going on here?

I think, which is why I mentioned not being able to stop. To me, a gluttonous person is a person that, you know, we all know that, right? But you just keep eating. You're just not able to stop.

Okay, all right, guys. Again, again, you have to use your imagination. Okay? So the sin is gluttony, okay? The sin is gluttony. And I want to, and people who are gluttonous tend to be fat, right? Gluttony, okay? Fat. All right, so let's just think of different punishments. Okay, we don't have to think about the logic or justice of it, but let's think of like how, if we were designing hell and you, you know, this person is fat or gluttonous, what could we do to this person? Okay? Okay, okay. Nothing to eat, sure, okay? Nothingness, right? You are just in a prison by yourself, like solitary confinement. There's nothing to do, okay? That's one possible punishment. Okay? What else? Feed them to death. Excuse me? Feed them to death. Okay, yeah, like just too much food, okay? So like you just balloon out, right? Just like cake after cake. It's like, have you guys ever seen the Homer, the Simpsons episode when Homer's in hell?

And then like, and then the devil's like, ha, you like doughnuts, right? And so what they do is they create this machine which feeds doughnuts to Homer for all of eternity. It's like, oh, and then the devil's like, eventually he's gonna mom it, but Homer is like in ecstasy, okay? He's like, oh, yes. Yes, yes?

Me.

You, then you. Okay, maybe like allowed them to do some exercise. Okay. good yeah treadmill man this is awesome you're fat i'll make you exercise for the rest of your

life until you're thin right uh yes maybe just put food just out of your range you can see it but you cannot yeah that's a really good punishment right like like you're on a treadmill and there's

a cake in front of you and you're running around as fast as you can but you can never actually touch the cake okay so yeah so maybe um cake out of reach yeah these are great punishments what else yes um i just have to point something out like can you not do this please i have to do

this because i find this really upsetting people are fat for a lot of reasons other than gluttony and i think that reducing fat equals gluttony i think it's really reductive this is just this

is an exercise okay i think it's really offensive okay all right you're flooding me so like oh you're not fat but you're gluttonous okay all right okay um okay i hate to say this but every day i teach for four hours and it's a really hard to teach for four hours okay i also have to constantly thinking so if you're interrupting me or you're trying to divert my attention it causes my brain to be even more fatigued okay it is exhausting okay well i'm telling you what's happening because this is my my sixth day okay okay all right okay all right let's let's keep on going okay the cake is out of reach you are uh running uh very very far okay so these are all great punishments okay and what they're doing is punishing you understand it's punishing you for your gluttony and that's what we think hell is hell is about punishment yeah

go ahead

can i i mean i'm just linking this to lust and the punishment for lust yes which is like being world around it's almost like the consequence of what you cause to others in the world

yes exactly okay so we think that hell is a place of punishment but for dante it's also a place of justice but redemptive justice to force you into reflection to force you to recognize the hurt you've caused others does it make sense okay so um the so you are you have gluttony and it's raining on you and it never stops okay so what what it's telling you is that is just an expression of your gluttony okay a rain that can't stop okay does that make sense okay that's why hell is designed the way it is it's not designed to punish because if we want to punish there are like a million ways we could punish anyone right we just have to use our imagination these are great punishments and we would laugh at this but the point of hell is not to punish the point of hell is to force reflection to force people to

recognize what the problem is and um what they can do about it okay does that make sense okay any questions all right uh yes yeah i mean i uh yes hell that the the tornado in for lust and

this one for gluttony but also in heaven too picardia is also stuck in it in a loop i just noticed the pattern even between inferno and and and there is symmetry here i'm just saying

yes exactly okay yes you're exactly right yes how does being in a tornado um help you reflect

no no it's it's trying to manifest visualize for you the problem with lust and the idea is that you are inconstant okay you always change your mind okay that's a problem with lust like if you see something beautiful you want it but then something more beautiful you want that

okay all right yes um we have a very interesting comment from the live stream okay and one person mentioned that she thinks that the punishment is quite similar we can take the japanese animation film spirited away tension as an example because she thinks the peeks in the film is quite similar to this punishment and um greed is like something saying like i want more and god's name is like i can't stop it's just like the pigs in the film good yeah exactly right

so greed is like i want i want more i want i want something from others glenn is i can't stop okay good okay all right but does that make sense to you okay hell is constructed not as a place to make you afraid to punish you it's hell is a place constructed to force you into seeing for yourself the problems and dangers of your sin okay does

that make sense okay all right uh yes consequence and the principle behind your sin to make you realize the sins essence and what it does to you or your body or the others around you yes okay

right so again it the it's to put a mirror to your face okay all right let's keep on reading

canto seven poppy satan poppy satan alepe so plutus with his grating voice began the gentle sage aware of everything said reassuringly don't let your fear defeat you for whatever power he has he cannot stop our climbing down this crag then he turned back to plutus's swollen face and said to him be quiet cursed wolf let your vindictiveness feed on yourself he's no his is no random journey to the deep it has been willed on high where michael took revenge upon the arrogant rebellion as sails inflated by the wind collapsed and tangled in a heap when the mass cracks so that ferocious beast fell to the ground thus we made our way down to the fourth ditch to take in more of that despondent shore where all the universe's ill is stored justice of god who has amassed as many strange tortures and travails as i have seen why do we let our guilt consume us

so even as waves that break above charybdis each shattering the other when they meet so must the spirits here dance their round dance here more than else where i saw multitudes to every side of me their howls were loud while wheeling weights they used their chests to push they struck against each other at that point each turned around a little and wheeling back those weights cried out why do you hoard why do you squander so did they move around the sorry circle from left and right to the opposing point again again they cried their chant of scorn and so when each of them had changed positions he circled halfway back to his next joust and i who felt my heart almost pierced through requested master show me now what shades are these and tell me if they all or clerics those tonsured ones who circle on our left and he to me all these two

left and right were so squint -eyed of mind in the first life no spending that they did was done with measure their voices spark this out with clarity when they have reached the two points of the circle where their opposing guilts divide their ranks these to the left their heads bereft of hair were clergymen and popes and cardinals with him whom avarice works its excess and i to him master among this kind i certainly might hope to recognize some who have been slandered by these crimes and he to me that thought of yours is empty that the undiscerning life that made them filthy now renders them unrecognizable for all eternity they'll come to blows these here will rise up from the sepulchers with fists clenched tight and these with hair cropped clothes ill -giving and ill -keeping have robbed both of the fair world and set them to this fracas what that is like my

words need not embellish now you can see my son how brief a sport of all those goods that are in fortune's care for which the tribe of men contend and brawl for all the gold that is wherever was beneath the moon could never offer rest to even one of these exhausted spirits master i asked of him now tell me too this fortune whom you've touched upon just now what she who clutches so all the world's goods and he to me oh unenlightened creatures how deep the ignorance that hampers you i want you to digest my word on this who made the heavens who gave them guides was he whose wisdom transcends everything that every part may shine unto the other he had the light apportioned equally similarly for worldly splendors he ordained a general minister and guide to shift from time to time those empty goods from nation unto nation clan to clan in ways

that human reason can't prevent just so when people rules one languishes obeying the decision she has given which like a serpent in the grass is hidden your knowledge cannot stand against her force for she foresees and judges and maintains her kingdom as the other gods do theirs the changes that she brings are without respite it is necessary it is necessity that makes her swift and for this reason men change state so often she's the one so frequently maligned even by those who should give praise to her they blame her wrongfully with words of scorn but she's blessed and do not hear these things for with the primal beings happy she turns her sphere and glories in her bliss but now let us descend to greater sorrow for every star that rose when i first moved is setting now we cannot stay too long we crossed the circle to the other shore we reached a foaming

water course that spills into a trench formed by its overflow that stream was even darker than deep purple and we together with those shadowed waves moved downward and along a strange pathway when it was reached when it's has reached the foot of those malign grays floats that melancholy stream descends forming a swamp that bears the name of sticks and i who was intent on watching it could make out muddied people in that slime all naked and their faces furious these struck each other not with hands alone but with their heads and chests and with their feet and tore each other piecemeal with their teeth the kindly master told me son now see the souls of those whom ganger has defeated and i should all also have you know for certain that underneath the water there are souls who sigh and make this plane of water bubble as your eye looking anywhere can tell wedged in

the slime they say we had been sullen in the sweet air that's gladdened by the sun we bore the midst of sluggishness in us now we're bitter in the blackened mud this hymn they have to gurgle in their gullets because they cannot speak it in full words and so between the dry shore and the swamp we circled much of that disgusting pond our eyes upon the swallowers of slime we came at last upon a tower space okay so we are

um going down in these circles we encounter people who are greedy what is their punishment they have to push rocks around okay in a circle in a circle uh what else okay what else and why would this be a fitting punishment for them again it's really important for us to appreciate the definition of punishment which is not an illogicalalay the real definition is to punish not to punish but to force reflection okay to force you to recognize the error of your ways so that you can choose to make a better decision okay this is this is about redemptive justice as opposed to just pure vengeance it was the logic of this punishment yes

what is the logic of this punishment yes

are for nothing because you're pushing these rocks around in circles and it's just like you're greedy you get a lot of these earthly things and at the end you it comes down to nothing

you put so much work exactly yeah yeah that's very beautiful thank you yes

maybe try to let people redeem redeem and try to be uh salvation or something yes okay right

right exactly okay yes anyone else okay all right the anger what's the punishment for the for the

anger they have to wrestle each other in mud okay and and what else and they're submerged

underwater yes and what else the swallows swan and they're also like are they also cannibalizing each other aren't they also eating each other so so so what's the why is this a fitting punishment uh for

this or yeah for forgiveness it means to forgive people yes when you are angry you kind of bite off

each other like you're mad at each other you have you want to tore each other apart but you're also like kind of drowning in your own anger that you are following basically because it's killing your body that's how you a lot of people get cancer and all kinds of disease when you're angry

exactly okay so you think you are hurting others but you're actually hurting yourself you're consuming others but you're also consuming yourself in the process

okay all right yes i wonder what is um the river styx doing here excuse me um why why are they

drowned in the rivers okay all right so when you read the divine comedy each of these different realms whether they are uh inferno purgatory or paradise there's always a complex geography to these realms and there are certain demarcation points which um suggest we are entering a new level okay do you understand so the sins that we've encountered so far whether they be lust um gluttony greed anger they're bad but not that bad okay when we cross river stakes when we enter uh new territory this is like even worse since okay um so these are things that may make others uncomfortable they make they make make your life terrible but they're not actually disrupting the fundamental structure of the universe whereas if you go lower and lower these people are in fact um destroying the very fabric of the universe okay does it make sense okay so so what donna is trying to do is trying

to separate these different regions of hell as well okay all right okay any more questions before we move on all right let's let's let's keep on going okay

kanto eight i say continuing that long before we two had reached the foot of that tall tower our eyes had risen upward towards its summit because of two small flames that flickered there while still another flame returned their signal so far off it was scarcely visible and i turned toward the sea of all good sense i said what does this mean and what reply comes from that other fire who kindled it and he to me above the filthy waters you can already see what waits for us if it's not hid by vapors from the marsh bowstring has not thrust from itself an arrow that ever rushed it swiftly through the heiress at the little bark that at that moment i saw as it skimmed toward us on the water a solitary boatman at its home i heard him how now you're caught foul soul of phlegia's flea gas such a shout useless this time my

master said we're yours no longer than it will take to cross the muddy sluice and just as one who hears some great deception was done to him and then resents it so was so was fliegas when he had to store his anger my guide preceded me into the boat once he was in he had me follow him there seemed to be no weight until i boarded no sooner were my guide and i embarked then off that ancient prow went cutting water more deeply than it does when bearing others and while we steered across the stagnant channel before me stood a sinner thick with mud saying who are you come before your time and i to him i've come but i don't stay but who are you have become so ugly he answered you can see i'm one who heaps who weeps and i to him in weeping and in grieving a cursed spirit may you

long remain though you're disguised by filth i know your name then he stretched both his hands out toward the boat at which my master quickly shoved him back saying be off there with the other dogs that done he threw his arms around my neck and kissed my face and said indignant soul blessed is she who bore you in her womb when in the world he was presumptuous there's no good to guilt his memory and so his shade down here is hot with fury how many up above now count themselves great kings who wall here like pigs in slime leaving behind foul memories of their crimes and i oh master i'm very eager to see that spirit soused within this broth before we've made our way across the lake and he to me before the other shore comes into view you shall be satisfied to gratify so fine a wish is right soon after i heard

i had heard these words i saw the muddy sinner so dismember him that even now i pray to him that he may be satisfied with his grace and thank god for it they were all shouting they all were shouting at filippo argenti at this the florentine gone wild with spleen began to turn his teeth against himself we left him there i tell no more of him but in my nearest but in my year so loud a wailing pounded that i leaned forward all intent to see the kindly master said my son the city that bears the name of dis is strong near with its grave citizens its great battalions i said i can already see distinctly master the mosques that gleam within the valley as crimson as if they had just been drawn out of the fire he told me the eternal flame burning there appears to make me make them red as you can

see within this lower hell so we arrived inside the deep cut trenches that are the moats of this despondent land the ramparts seem to me to be of iron but not before we ranged in a wide circuit did we approach a place where we could not see the fire but we reached a place where there's that shrill pilot shouted get out the entrance way is here above the gates i saw more than a thousand who once had reigned from heaven and they cried in anger who is this who without death can journey through the kingdom of the dead and my wise master made a sign that said he wanted to speak secretly to them then they suppressed somewhat their great disdain and said you come alone let him be gone for he was reckless entering this realm let him return alone on his mad road or try to if he can since you his guide

across so dark a land you are to stay consider reader my dismay before the sound of those abominable words returning here seemed so impossible oh my dear guide who more than seven times has given back to me my confidence and snatched me from deep danger that had menaced do not desert me when i'm so undone and if they will not let us pass beyond let us retrace our steps together quickly these were my words the lord who led me there replied forget your fear no one can hinder our passage one so great has granted it but you wait here for me and feed and comfort your tired spirit with good hope for i will not abandon you in this low world and so he go goes on his way that gentle father has left me there to wait and hesitate for yes and no content within my head i could not hear what he was

telling them but he had not been able to hear what he was telling them and so he went on along with them when each ran back into the cities scrambling fast and these our adversaries slammed the gates in my lord's face and he remained outside then with slow steps turned back again to me his eyes turned to ground his brows deprived of every confidence he said with size see who has kept me from the house of sorrow to him he added to me he added you though i am vexed must not be daunted i shall win this contest whoever tries within to block our way this insolence of theirs is nothing new they used it once before and at a gateless secret it is still without its bolt the place where you made out the fatal text and now already within that gate and across the circles and alone descends the one who will unlock

this

realm for us okay so um for the past few cantos we've established that virgil is the master of hell he's able to navigate it pretty easily these demons obey him they do whatever he tells them he understands the geography of hell very intimately now we cross the river styx and we enter we are about to enter the city of dis okay the dis is the home of the fallen angels those who rebelled against god and now they are um in hell this is is where it's where they live within this we will find lucifer or satan what's going on here he's trying to get into the city and the demons say screw off uh this guy donnie doesn't belong here we'll let you in virgil but we won't let in dante and virgil says let us talk in private so they talk privately and then they're like no he's not coming in okay why do

we have this scene what is dante trying to convey or trying to um say about the nature of hell or anything any thoughts any comments about what's going on

yes in terms with the devil and they are like good buddies almost like there's a brotherhood there

yeah so so what the devils are saying is that you've been here before uh we know you but we're

still at nagaland and dante yes um virgil is the master of outer hell not inner hell okay because he stops at this right so he's he's even he doesn't have authority to say who goes in and out of

the core okay what else

yes um my question i have a question is why do the angels call dante a madman or reckless for entering the realm of the dead without dying like why do they call him a madman what what would

you want to go into hell no yeah right it's like what are you doing here man you're still alive and you choose to walk among us are you crazy okay that that's what they're saying yes

love that he has sent beatrice to heaven so he's someone with love so he shouldn't be where the demons are and he still has reverence for god i guess a little bit um so the demons

think that he doesn't belong there well they tell me he doesn't belong there because his body he's still alive right they don't really know about beatrice they don't really know about god they don't care right so what's what's going on here anyone else they're saying that virgil and don't

are different so Virgil can go into this place but Dante can't good okay yeah so

so it's clearly the difference between Virgil and Dante okay Dante is a stranger to this world Virgil is very familiar to this world okay Virgil belongs here okay so that's implanting an idea in the reader like like Virgil really belongs here he's very intimate here he's probably very very happy here yes and this helps us explain why ultimately he chooses not to go to heaven right when when Dante takes Dante to purgatory the very top of purgatory he has opportunity to ascend to heaven he chooses not to go he just rather to just go back home to limbo what else yes yeah

I also have a question why why Dante just has to go to hell I mean it's just Virgil who just lead him to it to the hell or it's Dante who want him he is in

hell because there's no other path to heaven right he tried these other paths about blocked by these beasts so so Virgil's like well we could try to fight these beasts but we probably won't win so let us go another way let's go into hell and then we'll ascend to heaven for that way okay so this is the only path to heaven okay um what is the nature of people in hell why what does sin do to people and what why and why would that have to do? So why is Sinbad, yeah?

The people in hell like to control.

So what do they do always?

They boss people around.

And so what happens? They gatekeep. They gatekeep, and what happens? They fight amongst themselves, do you understand? So this is a metaphor for what is happening in Italy right now. Why are there so many different factions in Italy fighting each other? Why can't they get along, right? They know each other. They're probably born in the same family, but they're always fighting with each other. And it's the ego driven by sin, right? By their gluttony, by their lust, by their greed, by their anger. That's the issue in hell, and therefore there can be no smooth path in hell. There can be no unity in hell. They just have to fight each other all the time, okay? So what's the only way for Virgil and Dante to get out of this? Those demons won't let them in. That's just the nature of hell. People don't get along. They fight all the time. They gatekeep. They gatekeep. They are very territorial.

I think Virgil will fight his way in.

Good luck, Virgil. You're fighting an army of demons, yeah?

Bribe them.

Hmm? Bribe. What do you think the first thing that Virgil tried to do was? Probably bribe them, right? They had a private conversation. You can imagine all the things that Virgil tried to tell them, right? Like bribing and all that. Didn't work. So is there any solution?

Yes?

Dante and Virgil would need to argue with each other and maybe fight to show they're a part of this hell thing?

That's interesting, but that's not how these things work. Because again, these people are gatekeeping, they're territorial, right? So they're like, we don't care. Dante doesn't belong here. We control access, right? So what's the only path forward now? Are they able to resolve this conflict by themselves? No, okay? So God has intervened now, right? Okay. All right, let's keep on going.

Canto 9. The color cowardice displayed in me when I saw that my guide was driven back made him more quickly mask his own new power.

So he's very disappointed he was not able to convince the demons. Okay, keep on going.

He stood alert like an attentive listener because his eyes could hardly journey far across the black air and the heavy fog. We have to win this battle, he began. If not, we can't. But one so great had offered help. How slow that someone's coming to see me. But I saw well enough how he had covered his first words with the words that followed after. So different from what he had said before. Nevertheless, his speech made me afraid because I drew out from his broken phrase a meaning worse, perhaps, than he'd intended. Does anyone from the first circle, one whose only punishment is crippled hope, ever descend so deep in the sad hollow? That was my question. And he answered so. It is quite rare for one of us to go along the way that I have taken now. But I, in truth, have been here once before. That savage witch, Eryktho, she who called the shades back to their bodies, summoned me.

My flesh had not been long stripped off when she had me descend through all the rings of hell to draw spirit back from Judas's circle. That is the deepest and the darkest place, the farthest from the heaven that girds all. So rest assured, I know the pathway well. The swamp that breathes and breathes the giant stench surrounds the city of the sorrowing, which now we cannot enter without anger. And he said more, but I cannot remember because my eyes had wholly taken me to that high tower with the glowing summit, where at one single point there suddenly stood three infernal theories flecked with blood who had the limbs of women and their ways, but wore as girdles snakes of deepest green, small serpents. And horned vipers formed their hairs, and these were used to bind their bestial temples. And he who knew these handmaids well, they served the

queen of never -ending lamentation, said, Look at the ferocious Erinys, that is Megara on the left, and he who weeps upon the right, that is Electo, to syphonies between them. He was done. Each fury tore her breast with talent nails, each with her palms. Beats. She beat on herself and wailed so loud that I in fear drew near the poet. Just let Medusa come, then we shall turn him into stone. They all cried, looking down. We should have punished Theseus' assault. Turn round and keep your eyes shut fast, for should the gorgon show herself and you behold her, never again would you return above, my master said. And he himself turned me around and not content with just my hands, used his as well to cover up my eyes. Oh, you possessed of sturdy intellects, observe the teaching that is hidden here beneath the veiled verses so obscure, and now across the turbid waves, they're

past our ribo -antic frockets. Hoard sound enough to make both of the shorelines quake, a sound no other, not other than a wind's when wild, because it must contend with warmer currents, it strikes against the forest without let. Shattering, beating down, bearing off branches that moves proudly. Oh, you possessed of sturdy intellects, observe the teaching that is hidden here beneath the veiled verses so obscure, and now across the turbid waves, they're past our ribo -antic frockets. Hoard sound enough to make both of the shorelines quake, a sound no other, not other than a wind's when wild, because it must contend with warmer currents, it strikes against the forest without let. Clouds of dust before it and puts to flight both animals and shepherds. He freed my eyes and said, now let your optic nerve turn directly toward that ancient foam. There where the mist is thickest and most accrued. As frogs confronted by their enemy, the snake will scatter underwater till each hunches in a heap along the bottom.

So did the thousand ruined souls I saw take flight before a figure crossing sticks who walked as if on land and with dry soul. He thrust away the thick air from his face, waving his left hand frequently before him. That seemed the only task that wearied him. I knew well he was heaven's messenger, and I turned around my master, and he made a sign that I be still and bow before him. How full of high disdain he seemed to me, he came up to the gate, and with a wand he opened it, for there was no resistance. Oh, you cast out of heaven, hated crowd, were his first words upon that horrid, threshold. Why do you harbor this presumptuousness? Why are you so reluctant to endure that will whose aim can never be cut short, and which so often add unto your hurts?

What good is it to thrust against the fates? You're Cerberus, if you remember well, for that had both his throat and chin stripped clean. At that he turned and took the filthy road and did not speak to us, but had the look of one who's obsessed by other cares. Then those that pressed and gnawed those before him, and we moved forward onto, on into the city, in safety, having heard his holy words. We made our way inside without a struggle, and I, who wanted so much to observe the state of things that such a fortress guarded, as soon as I had entered, looked about. I saw on every side a spreading plain of lamentation and atrocious pain, just as at Arles, where Rome becomes a marsh, just as at Pola, near Cronera, a narrow scull that closes Italy and bathes its borders. The sepulchres make all the plain uneven, so they did here on every side, except that here the sepulchres were much more harsh.

For flames were scattered through the tombs, and these had kindled all of them to glowing heat. No artisan could ask for hotter iron. The lid of every tomb was lifted up, and from each tomb such sorry cries arose as could come only from the sad and hurt. And I, master, who can these people be, buried in great chests of stone like these, must speak by way of sighs and agony, and he to me, here are our heretics and those who followed them from every sect. Those tombs are much more crowded than you think. Here, like, like has been and sepulchred with like. Some monuments are heated more, some less, and then he turned around and to his right we passed between the torments and high walls.

OK, so Virgil and Donny cannot pass into this. And in fact, there are furies and Medusa who threaten them. OK, so what saves them is the arrival of an angel who forces this to be opened and the demons flee. How does Virgil feel about this? How does he feel? You're in trouble. You can't solve a problem. God sends an angel to help you. How?

how do you feel embarrassed when angel comes and saves you you feel embarrassed um well so virgil is supposed to be i really know his way around hell yes and be buds with everyone and have control but here it's something that he can't do so it's kind of embarrassing that he couldn't

do that completely on his own and so he's embarrassed right so what does this tell us about virgil he has uh ego yeah he's very proud does that make sense because like if any of us were in trouble right and we pray to god please come save us an angel comes and saves us we'd be eternally grateful right we'd be like oh wow i would now dedicate myself to loving god for the rest of my life and i will spread this message and and virgil is like and what and what does virgil say when the angel arrives what does he say and do what does he say do when angel came and saved you what's the least you can say thank you thank you man does virgil do this he doesn't he doesn't do anything he doesn't say anything okay meaning he's tough and this is telling us he's not actually happy about any of

this right does that make sense he's not happy about this yeah the problem is solved he couldn't get through the gates of this an angel came to help him out but he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything because virgil is first and foremost obsessed with control his ego his pride right he wants to be the top dog he wants to be one in charge he wants to be the hero and so this is very embarrassing for um virgil okay so he's putting his own feelings before the larger mission of getting dante to heaven right because if you are really focused on the mission and there's an angel who opens the gates what what should you say to this angel and if you were really focused on the mission if you really wanted

dante to ascend to heaven and an angel has come and saved you what would you say to him you say thank you first of all and like what else yeah man hey hey you're going to heaven right hey take that away with you right look seriously you came over from heaven you have to go back just take that away with you problem solved i completed my mission does it make sense the fact that he doesn't say thank you the fact that he doesn't even ask the angel for more help suggests that virgil first and foremost cares about his ego right he wants to he wants to be the one to take dante throughout hell has he has dante how well does virgil know hell how well does virgil know hell very well like how well has he been everywhere in hell has he been into the deepest darkest areas of hell yes even to satan

do you understand okay so he knows hell very very well okay so he knows how to traverse hell and he himself has said that he's been to uh every part of hell even in the deepest darkest circle of hell all right so again this is making us wonder who virgil is what his motivations are and what yeah okay so so hicidden people her so youruste'shit are gonna tell you hopefully a lot more and um yeah that's that's really where they find you in the video the best way for them likes and on read and i just wanna tell you if you want to followhrise you don't really need to but the are lots of like good short videos on youtube that introduced inferno because it's a it's a very simple section that's compared with paradise okay paradise is hard that's why we have spent a lot of time in paradise but inferno is actually pretty

simple okay so make sure like you um to

learn about uh inferno okay yes there a reason why i do feel you know going from paradise to inferno inferno it's much more i wouldn't call it approachable but it's easier to kind of go through and kind of follow the story as opposed to the concepts that you have to grasp in paradise yes right like literature wise is there like a it's been intended that way i think it is because

remember um what donald will do is first publish the inferno okay and at this time in history donna is not a well -known person he's not a very powerful person right so he wants to make sure that first of all whatever he writes is appealing right that people will want to um read it and buy the manuscript but also he's trying to um establish himself in a larger poetic tradition right and that means using famous people like virgil right so like if if if if it's like dante in hell like who cares right but it's like virgil taking dante in hell that's an actually interesting cell to people okay so so so so for him it's like you know how does he get people interested in a story he's trying to convey and that's why as you point out the story in inferno it's much more interesting it's much more visual than paradise okay but

ultimately he wants us he wants to take us all to paradise and to do that you first need to uh establish a really compelling story okay with really famous people okay so uh and honestly this is why uh in universities it's mainly inferno that's taught and not paradise okay because paradise it's actually much more it's really philosophy as opposed to literature whereas inferno it's very literary okay it's a great story lots of interesting characters it's very visual it's very funny it's very interesting okay so thank you for that but again we're trying we're trying to really understand uh dante's cosmology okay yes um

dante's inferno reminds me a lot of uh the chinese uh novel journey to the west in the way that it's first of all they're both a journey second of all they both meet monsters and demons and angels and myth mythic creatures and third of all they have a very big impact on the society and the culture and they're both really old um yeah like for example the way that journey to the west is interesting to read because you know they're fighting demons and uh they're going on a journey it's in this in a similar way inferno is interesting to read because you know there's this master he's bringing this other person on a journey and they're trying to get to a destination

yeah you know you're absolutely right in that uh inferno it there's much more of a narrative angle to it right whereas in paradise it's basically just philosophy

very much like some kind of uh role -playing philosophy uh yes yeah but there's a very big difference is uh the monster in the western journey uh they are all being protected by by the god by by the you know some god is but in the you know uh funnel we can see that it's impossible right because demons or angel they are quite a different world they can't just take control over each other but i think maybe that is quite quite different yeah okay all right all right any other

more questions or comments okay all right so to summarize we need to go very fast for the last half of this seminar and so you will have to do a lot more work okay so we review what we learned so far and on YouTube there are lots of tutorials lots of like good intro videos that introduce to you inferno okay as well as so so so let's yeah so just make sure you understand and prepare and this will allow for much richer discussion okay and again inferno is not that hard to understand as compared with paradise and that's why I hope that you're more able to contribute individually to it so the game plan for the last half of this seminar is for us to imagine you know if you want to do a lot more work and you want to do a lot more work that each and every one of us will leave

the seminar and we will teach it to someone else okay it could be it give you your students because your teachers but it could also be your friend it also be your child it could also be your mother okay and it doesn't matter okay but imagine yourself after you leave the seminar teaching it to someone that you love and what I'm going to do is rather just focus too much on the literary meaning of the text because we've done paradise which is the hardest and so everything else that follows should be pretty simple what I'm going to focus more on is giving you the tools to expand your imagination as well as to teach others okay that's why I wanted to do compare contrast today compare contrast is one most effective tools that you can use so that we can just say okay well to understand why rain is such an interesting punishment let's move

other punishments right okay so I'll be doing more of these pedagogical techniques and then I'm going to trameration the deck on bothijdos right we are going to draw hands on trees and then we're going toınız okay and then we are going to see how long can the record it'sObjective is called what else is possible okay and then we are going to learn about the politics and okay and so come in with a spirit like I'm not here to debate you I'm not to argue you I'm here to learn how to teach this to others okay so that's the last half of our seminar okay we are we clear we've done the hardest part we've done paradise we now know exactly what this poet Magina do we We have a good conception. Now our goal is to teach it to others. All right? OK, I'll see everyone tomorrow. Thanks. Yes? Yes?.

Great. OK. Great.

Two more reasons.