---
title: "Jiang Xueqin: The Iran War & the Battle for the Petrodollar transcript"
description: "Source-synced transcript archive for Jiang Xueqin: The Iran War & the Battle for the Petrodollar."
source_title: "Jiang Xueqin: The Iran War & the Battle for the Petrodollar"
published_at: "2026-04-13"
source_class: "interview"
public_url: "https://jianglens.com/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript/"
markdown_url: "https://jianglens.com/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript.md"
text_url: "https://jianglens.com/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript.txt"
source_url: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_DHMUdOVdo"
data_url: "https://jianglens.com/data/lens/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo.json"
---

# Jiang Xueqin: The Iran War & the Battle for the Petrodollar transcript

- Source: [Jiang Xueqin: The Iran War & the Battle for the Petrodollar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_DHMUdOVdo)
- Published: 2026-04-13, day precision
- Human transcript page: [/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript/](https://jianglens.com/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript/)
- Interview page: [/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/](https://jianglens.com/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/)
- Transcript Markdown: [/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript.md](https://jianglens.com/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript.md)
- Transcript text: [/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript.txt](https://jianglens.com/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo/transcript.txt)
- Interview JSON: [/data/lens/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo.json](https://jianglens.com/data/lens/interviews/interview-p-dhmudovdo.json)

## Transcript

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Welcome back. We are joined today by Zhang Shuoishin to discuss the developments between the United States and Iran. So thank you very much for coming back on.

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Thanks, Mark.

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Well, the first thing I think about in regards to this war is that the Iranian targets all seem to be very well calculated in terms of economics. And I think this is interesting because usually in all American wars, there's some economic interests to go to war. But now we see them, well, not just shutting down the Strait of Hormuz, but you see them when they essentially forced Americans to spend their expensive interceptor missiles. All of this seems to have an economic underpinning. But the really big thing appears to be the possible attack now on the petrodollar. I was wondering, how do you see the vulnerability of the petrodollar in this war?

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Right. So I would argue that right now, this war in Iran, it's primarily about maintaining the petrodollar because these past 10 years, the world has become increasingly concerned about the viability of the petrodollar. Right now, the United States is $39 trillion in debt. The United States, right after the Russians invaded Ukraine, froze over $200 billion in Russian assets. Which makes the world question the legitimacy as well as the credibility of the U.S. financial system. Because if the Americans can weaponize the U.S. dollar against the Russians, they can weaponize the U.S. dollar against everyone. So after that, you saw this massive exodus from U.S. Treasuries. And right now, China is establishing the gold corridor. So BRICS is trying to create alternatives to the petrodollar. But for the Americans, the petrodollar is the very basis of their empire. And quite honestly, it's the objective of their empire. So the United States right now is going to fight tooth and nail to protect the petrodollar.

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What this basically means is to use its naval supremacy, its control over strategic chokepoints, maritime chokepoints, to control trade access, and basically force nations to depend on U.S. resources. So we saw that the United States in January attacked Venezuela, and now it's attacked Iran. Recently, these past few days, there was a Ukrainian drone strike on Russia's main export hub, which basically took off 40 % of Russian oil from the global market. And so Europe and East Asia are now forced to depend on the United States, North America, and other countries. So now, we see a huge shift in strategy. And right now, we're seeing a pivot from Europe and East Asia over to North America. And so that's a strategy in place where the United States basically wants to take off Russian GCZ oil and force the world to buy from the United States, which protects the petrodollar.

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But what we know from history is that this sort of hubris will lead to a backlash, and it will lead to the world unifying against the U.S. economy. So that's America eventually because quite honestly America used to be the policeman of the world and that's become the pirate of the world and so maybe in a short term you will see the strategy working out but definitely in the long term you will see the world becoming much more aggravated by this piracy.

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So what do they need to achieve then in this war because well I was wondering if you were surprised that the Americans appeared to have walked away from the negotiations at least that's what it seemed like in Islamabad. Is this to continue the war then or is it simply because they can't well the petrodollar won't survive if the Strait of Hormuz is with the Iranians or what is the thinking here?

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Right so we've seen a very strange sequence of events these past six weeks. The war's been going on for about six weeks. And we've seen a lot of strange events. So the moment that the Americans attacked Tehran and killed their supreme leader the Iranians basically closed off the Strait of Hormuz. And in response what the Americans did which was very surprising is they basically removed sanctions on both Russian and Iranian oil allowing the Russians and Iranians to make a lot of money selling the oil. So that was sort of surprising. And Scott Besant the treasury secretary explained that this is to maintain global stability. He's afraid that oil will reach $200 and this would destabilize the global economy. And as this war progressed we saw the United States escalate to attacking civilian infrastructure like universities, bridges and railways. In fact there's real concern that the Americans and Israelis plan to

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choke and strangle Tehran to death meaning cutting off the railway system, the roads which would put Tehran under siege. They couldn't get food and water from the other parts of Iran. And Tehran a city of 10 million people would be in a lot of trouble if that was their case. So what we were seeing was constant escalation. Then last week we were on the brink because Trump basically declared that if Iran did not open the Strait of Hormuz then the Americans would bomb Iran back to the Stone Age. And Iran obviously would retaliate by destroying GCC, the energy infrastructure and the desalination plants. So last Tuesday we were really on the brink and it seemed as though we were heading towards war three. But then Trump did something completely surprising which is he basically offered an unconditional surrender. Iran had a 10 -point plan which included that Iran would be allowed to enrich uranium. It also included that all economic sanctions against Iran would be lifted.

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Iran would be given sovereignty over the Houthis and all security guarantees would be applied to both Iran and its proxies, the Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas. So these were the 10 points that Iran demanded. And the Americans, Donald Trump basically said that this is a workable framework. And so they agreed to meet in Islamabad to discuss these 10 points and use them as a framework for a possible long -term ceasefire. We know that once they reached Islamabad, JD Vance, Jared Kushner and Sivrikov basically blew off the Iranians. They were not serious about negotiations. The Americans went in with some goodwill, hoping to reach an agreement and that's where the Iranians went. But the Americans just basically said, no, we're going to stick to our original demands. And so the negotiations went nowhere. And so now we're back to where we were a week ago. So the big question then is, why would the Americans do this?

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What's the point of this ceasefire? And so let me speculate here. So let me try to figure out how Donald Trump thinks, because he's a businessman. And what does he want? Well, his main objective is to maintain American imperial supremacy by maintaining the petrodollar. And that basically means forcing China and Japan and South Korea and Europe to buy energy using the U.S. dollar. That's what the petrodollar literally means. And so maybe the point of this war was to destroy the GCC and Iran's capacity to deliver oil to the world market and force the world to rely on North America, Canada, Mexico, and the United States. So let's just say that is the main objective. And obviously Trump can't announce this because this would piss off the entire world and unite the entire world against the United States. Well, in order for him to pull

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this off, he would basically need to gauge China's reaction because we know that China and Iran are very strong allies. China has invested a great deal in Iranian infrastructure as part of the Belt and Road Initiative. And China buys a lot of oil from Iran. In fact, China buys about 90 % of all Iranian oil. So basically, Trump needs to figure out, can I pull this off? And would China agree to buy oil from me? So he's a negotiator. He's a businessman. He's practical. He's trying to figure out what the pressure points on China are. And I would make the argument that Iran agreeing to this Republicans would have not have been as difficult if China had not applied more pressure on Iran. I would make this argument because the Iranians have been negotiating with Americans this past few months and they know that the Americans use these negotiations as a pretext in order to assassinate leaders in order to do surprise attacks.

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So the Iranians know те Americans absolutely have no credibility. The Americans are not serious at all about peace negotiations. And these past few weeks, the Iranians have been adamant saying, you start this war, we're just protecting our sovereignty, and there's no point in negotiations, let's just fight this to the bitter end. I think that was the right approach. This is the attitude you must take against bullies. So why is it that the Iranians suddenly had a change of heart and says, fine, let's negotiate in Islamabad? In fact, they sent a pretty high level delegation to Islamabad, including the foreign minister, to partake in these negotiations, knowing that Israel has a history of assassinating negotiating teams. So they put their diplomats at tremendous risk. And I think the only explanation is that right now the Chinese economy is under a lot of strain. China receives about 6 % of its oil and energy from the Middle East, including Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

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China receives about a third of its energy needs from Venezuela, Russia, and Iran combined. And China's been very lucky in that these three places have been sanctioned. So China has been able to receive the oil at a very steep discount, which has really helped the Chinese economy. And now a lot of this energy is moving offline. So the Chinese economy is under a lot of stress. So China's economy is under a lot of stress. Trump's trying to figure out, can I, when I go to China in mid -May, can I propose to Beijing? Hey man, let's have a grand alliance where you start to buy energy from North America. And he's trying to figure that out. And given that Iran agreed to negotiations, I think that he's figured out that the answer is yes. China must agree because of the state of their economy.

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And this is why we saw right after the negotiations were canceled, Trump announced a naval blockade against Iran. Because he knows that. Right now. China's a lot of strain and he can bring China into an agreement and thus protect the petrodollar. So that's my explanation for what's going on. I could be wrong. It's all speculation, but I think this is what makes the most sense so far.

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The naval blockade, this is all a strange conception because it's unclear how it's going to be upheld because they're not naturally in the strait either. They will be far away. So it's essentially the blockade. Would it entail attacking Chinese ships entering? I mean, it seems absurd. What if they would, the Iranians open up for Indian ships? Are they going to start attacking Indian ships? It doesn't really make that much sense. How do you see this? How would this blockade actually function? Or is it just meant to choke off the Iranian ships?

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Right. So from a practical perspective. Right. So from a practical perspective, it's actually very hard to implement because if you go close to the Iranian coastline, to the Strait of Hormuz, then you're in range of Iranian ballistic missiles. And so the Americans won't risk that because we've seen that their aircraft carriers, including the Gerald Ford, Napier and Lincoln have intentionally stayed far away from Iran's ballistic missile range. So they're afraid of ballistic missiles. And they know that these ballistic missiles can sink their aircraft carriers, which would be a tremendous, tremendous defeat strategically for the Americans. So I think this is a pretext to choke off the Strait of Malacca. Right. So there are two major choke points for East Asia to receive oil from the Middle East. The Strait of Hormuz is what Iran controls. And so in response, America plans to choke off the Strait of Malacca, which is right now basically controlled by Indonesia and Malaysia, both of which are American military allies.

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And these nations have been heavily infiltrated by the CIA. So I think that's the grand strategy to basically use the Strait of Malacca to choke off East Asia from GCC energy.

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Yeah. But if the Americans actually go through with this attempt to blockade, the Iranians would probably respond with their ally in Yemen, that is to close off the Red Sea at Bab al -Mandab. So I'm just... Yeah. It seems that this could be, well, it just seems like this plan is weak at many levels, but it kind of begs the question of how, what do you see being the likely success of the United States achieving its objective, not just with the blockade, but also with preserving the petrodollar because Iran is quite resilient and I'm assuming that the Chinese, much like with the war against Russia, that they know that they could be next on the chopping block. Or that they at least are the ultimate targets.

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Right. So what America is mostly interested in is trying to sustain its debt. Right now, America has $39 trillion in debt. That's not a problem as long as nations continue to buy up U.S. treasuries. And we've seen these past few years a movement away from U.S. treasury and more towards gold. The Chinese especially are moving towards gold. So how do you force East Asia and Europe to continue to buy U.S. treasuries? Well, if you are the only supplier of energy, of oil and gas, LNG, they have absolutely no choice but to sell their gold and buy U.S. treasuries in order to sustain their economies. Right. So yes, you're absolutely right in that the Iranians have countermeasures. The Iranians could use the Houthis to close off the Red Sea. They could attack the pipeline that connects Saudi Arabia to the Red Sea. There's many, many measures. There's many measures that the Iranians can do, but the influence of the Iranians is contained to the Middle East.

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Remember, the ultimate objective is to knock off Middle East oil and energy from the market. And that is very easy to do as long as you continue to provoke this war. Now, I think the next step is a ground invasion in order to force Iranians to attack GCC energy and desalination plants. Right. So the entire goal is to destroy the Middle East. Which will force the world to pivot to North America. So in a short term, this strategy will work out because there's absolutely no alternative for the world to the Middle East energy. But in the long term, this will create a great deal of animosity towards the United States, which will ultimately destroy their empire.

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Well, Romano Prodi, the former prime minister of Italy and also a former president of the European Commission. Yeah. He said something interesting along those lines. He was making the point that, well, at some point, the Europeans will have to start getting energy again from the Russians if they want to thrive. But he also made a prediction that the energy would open once the Americans would begin to control the energy infrastructure between Russia and Europe. So essentially, the Americans taking over Nord Stream. This is when the energy will start flowing again, which is, well, an assumption, I guess, that the Americans want to be in control over the energy architecture, otherwise they will not permit it. But beyond this, well, what Trump might be planning, a common argument is often that Trump is not necessarily fully in control, that he's all, if not compromised, at least under great influence from various interests, be it the neocons or the Israelis.

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How do you see this extent of Trump's control? Because, well, given how different his second administration is compared to the first, one often gets the impression that it doesn't always matter who sits on the throne in the U.S.

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I think in the first administration, there was a lot of concern within the deep state and the neocons and the different political factions were in Washington, D.C., about Trump's capacity to be a leader, because he was outrageous in his speech and his rhetoric. The Europeans were very much concerned about Trump. Trump started this trade war with China that was hurting the global economy, and it was hurting American consumers. Trump did not seem like a viable leader, and he did not seem as though he could maintain the empire. And people felt that if he stayed in office longer, the Europeans would drift away, China would drift away. The entire world would drift away. The entire world would drift away. And American hegemony would die. But then what happened, of course, was that Biden came into power. And Biden was essentially comatose. He did nothing for four years. So Putin invaded Ukraine, and Americans didn't really have a forceful response.

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I mean, they did do a lot of things, like blow up the Nord Stream pipeline. They sanctioned Russian energy. They removed Russia from the SWIFT system. They froze $20 billion in Russian assets. They did a lot of things. But none of these things were actually useful. And the empire decided that regardless of what we feel about Trump, he is forceful. He will act. Whereas Biden and the Democrats may not act because essentially they're a bunch of pussies. And so the decision was made to reinstate Trump in 2024. And that's where we are here today. So Trump is an agent of empire. He is doing what the empire requires. Okay. And so what happened before during the unipolar moment, basically from 1991 up to today, was that America had a lot of goodwill, and it was able to achieve the consent of the world, mainly by co -opting the global elite, right?

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So all these elites in Europe, in Russia, in China, they were mainly concerned about engaging as much corruption as possible so that they can basically transfer their ill -gotten gains into America. And this system worked really well for the elite for a long, long time. But obviously these nation states were not very happy with the state affairs. That's where you saw the rise of Putin in Russia and the rise of Xi in China because there was a lot of concern among the nationalists that America was hauling out these countries. And they were completely right in the matter. So now you're seeing a direct challenge to American empire. And so the only challenge is you don't have to consent. Yes. these nation states then you must use force to enforce your empire within these nation states and so before the American military was used in order to guarantee peace in the Pax Americana it was used

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to guarantee a national trade they were the policemen of the world in order to maintain the rules -based national order and now that's now that Russia and China and other nations are questioning the legitimacy of the rules -based national order what Trump is doing is he is transforming the military the American military from a police force into a pirate force in order to extract tolls from the world so we are in this situation because Trump's first strategy was to use tariffs on the world right to force Europeans to pay tariffs to the American empire but the supreme court struck that down because they said that the executive branch does not have the authority to enforce tariffs only congress does so Trump's like well you know what if you won't enforce tariffs and I'll just enforce tolls okay I'll make the world pay tolls in order to have trade around the world and and that's why

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we're seeing the Americans deploy went through the navy into the Caribbean to block trade into the western hemisphere that's why we're seeing this war in Iran to block off the world from middle east energy and that's why we're seeing right now the US navy basically boarding Russian shadow fleet tankers basically stealing shadow fleet tankers and we'll see more of this as the months go by

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yeah what's interesting with Trump though there's some consistency here I mean many people I guess mistook his rhetoric for being you know all about peace but if you listen to what he said all the way going back to the 1980s he was essentially scolding Japanese and others for uh for you know taking advantage of the US the way he saw it so he didn't say that we shouldn't have a big empire he just said the empire they should pay us for the privilege of being protected so it's not that they didn't want an empire he seemed he just wanted a better return on investment that is you know you have to monetize the empire somehow otherwise the empire will kill off the republic so in other words it should feed it it looks as this is where he's his main difference is but that means not just a peace you know you have to monetize

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it's not just that the rest of that empire is going to kill off the republic by the way that you're competing against the empire, so in other words it should feed it it looks as this is where he's his main differences but that means not just a peace this is not going to win the victory, but a militancy or, you know, you can rely on it, but your ways, you can only vote. extracting from adversaries, but also allies. But I don't think it's limited to Trump. I think overall, the United States will tilt more and more in this direction because as they have said, they exhausted themselves with $39 trillion in the hole. It's not as if you can vote for a Democrat and suddenly they go back to paying for the security of allies anymore and having generous trade agreements. There's no going back after, you know, exhausted to this extent, sorry.

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Yeah, so this is a really important point that you make. Okay. So remember in 2016, when Trump first came into office, he was saying the same things you're saying, which is everyone's taking advantage of us, especially China, so let's impose tariffs and make sure that that it's America first, that America is winning in this in this trade relationship. But after Trump left office, Biden came in with the Democrats and they institutionalize his policies. Okay. So in the first Trump administration, a lot of it was personal. Uh, especially his tariff war against China and then Biden, the Democrats made it institutional and so we're going to throw the same process here where maybe Trump leaves office in 2028, the Republicans lose the Democrats come, come into office and they won't change anything. All they're gonna do is institutionalize it and make it a long -term sustainable policy because this is what benefits American empire.

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So how will the great powers respond then? Because the U S obviously shifting strategy, it's becoming more extractive and more aggressive. Again, it's not, uh, going, well, it's not going down without a fight. Uh, how do you see the, the Chinese and the Russians, uh, uh, well reacting to this? You mentioned before the China's it's gold corridor in terms of shifting more to yeah, gold instead of, uh, being reliant on the U S dollar, but, uh, what is he being the overall strategy here? Because, uh, my impression is at least from the Russians that, uh, they, uh, the, the interpretation that Trump was someone they could, uh, make peace with and, uh, uh, you know, reset relation, it appears to be backsliding. I think they were quite appalled by what has happened to Iran, not just the attack on economic infrastructure, but also the, you know, the killing of its leaders and it seems, um, yeah, very much to go against their interest.

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And also Trump never actually did what he promised, which was to end the war in Ukraine in an old fairness, uh, this could have been done. Yeah. If he would've cut off, uh, you know, the intelligence agency is still working there. All right.

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So again, I think we give too much credit to Trump. I think that this is a natural response, um, of empire to its decline. Um, we historically empires have never, have never gone quietly into the night. They have flailed against, uh, the wind and they have tried to destroy the world as they decline. And so we can see much more hubris. We will see much more. We have thuggery and piracy from America with or without Trump. And so I think we are in a situation, um, because of the limitations of Chinese strategic thinking. So, um, when trying to build the build and road initiative, which was proper, which was a good strategy of trying to secure a resource independence from the United States, the problem was that when these Chinese ships went to collect commodities from overseas, they were escorted by the US Navy when they came back. They were escorted by the US Navy.

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It was the US Navy that guaranteed the protection of Chinese trade. And it never occurred to Chinese policy makers that one day, one of these days, America could be like, why don't you steal the car? You know, why are we escorting these Chinese ships around the world? Why don't you steal it? And so it never really occurred to Chinese policy makers of this possibility. And I don't know why, why this is the case. Um, we can go. Into many possibilities, but the re the reality is that China is now in a lot of trouble where China has invested $20 billion into the middle East and infrastructure. China right now imports 50 to 50 to 6 % of its oil needs from the middle East. Now that the Strait of Hormuz, um, has been closed off. Now that this war is raging in the middle East, China is in a lot of trouble. And again, again,

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this is all has to do with the. Limitations of Chinese strategic thinking. And so now China is in a lot of trouble and in a short term, China has actually no choice, obviously no choice at all, but to agree to Trump's demands, which is that China will become a major purchaser of America, American LNG. China has absolutely no choice in the matter. Okay. Absolutely no choice. There's no, there's something China can do. No, no, mid and long -term what's going to happen is that Russia will start to challenge America in the seas. It's going to challenge America, American maritime naval supremacy. Basically what, what Russia is going to do is it's going to arm a shadow fleet. And there's no way that Russia could defeat, um, America militarily, uh, in the seas, but America will be forced to fight a war of attrition. And over time, the American Navy will be downgraded. It will be degraded and it'll be very hard for American, um, Navy to replenish its lost ships.

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And so that's what we're, what we're seeing in the long term, but in the short term, there's absolutely nothing Russia and China can, can do.

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Yeah. I often think about the current situation. It resembles a little bit like before world war one, that is you saw Germany building and becoming stronger and stronger, uh, in terms of industrial production, steel production, essentially all the key measurements. Meanwhile, the British control the seas, the entire, their ability to actually compete against the British was, uh, uh, you know, was in hand. So of the hands of the British, all they had to do is begin to cut off or threaten their supply lines, which is why the Germans also had to find, you know, uh, other, other possible corridors, either land or sea. Uh, but it's a little bit with the Chinese. I feel they have all this, well, probably one of the motivations behind the belt and road initiative. That is you can't rival the us as the economic leading economy while the Americans are then organizing their, or, uh, you know, or organizing their supply lines.

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I mean, they're, they're physical transportation corridors. It doesn't make much sense. Uh, but this return to, uh, I guess, uh, well, piracy, as you say, or, or choking off this different transportation corridors, we've seen, of course, the blockade on Venezuela, Cuba, the hijacking of this Russian ships, by the way, the hijacking of, uh, Iranian tankers have happened for some years now before, uh, this war as well. Uh, so, so I, I get it that our hegemon in decline will begin to weaponize all the economic levers of power that is access to its technologies and industries, transportation corridors, banks, currencies, all of this is weaponized. Uh, but the United States isn't all powerful either. I mean, how, what is the main challenge for the us to hold out? Because as you said, they're struggling with their own debt. This is, uh, the older economic trouble is also translating into social and political instability.

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So it looks as if, you know, they can't afford to play this game with the Iranians for too long. Uh, that, you know, at some point they will have to put an end to this thing.

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Um, I think like the goal is to have this war continue for as long as possible. And the reason why is that if there were peace in the Middle East, what happened is that Russia, Iran, and China would get together and form a trade alliance to counter America's control over the seas. And this trade alliance could extend easily into Europe, into Africa. Uh, this is what, what McKenna calls the Heartland thesis, right. where America and Britain, um, the way for them to maintain their empire is by controlling maritime navigation. And the great concern is that a power would emerge in Eurasia to unite the Heartland and basically, uh, negate, uh, Anglo American Naval power. And so this war in Iran cannot stop. If it stops, then Russia could achieve its north -south, uh, trade corridor, and China could implement its Maoização, right? of Alors. Not with Это not ao -are, this war. Then Russia could

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achieve its north -south, uh, trade corridor and China could implement its belt of agreement. Right? And so, uh, this war, Iran cannot stop. If it stops, then Russia could achieve its north -south, uh, trade corridor, and road initiative and given the how america is starting to behave then i think that europe um the middle east africa would happily join this trade alliance and basically um try to try to ignore the western hemisphere and britain and so there's no way that brit that america will seed iran uh and leave iran alone it's gonna send in ground troops to create as much chaos as possible um and try to disrupt the baron initiative so what we're seeing is that the israelis and americans are targeting railways uh in iran which is crucial to the belt and road initiative and so we can we will we can expect um maybe more than a lot of building infrastructure

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uh for years and years yeah i couldn't help but to notice the targeting of the railroads as well as well as some ports in the caspian so this entire right international north south transportation group is going to have to deal with that as well so i think it's going to be a very interesting corridor from which have been building from russia iran to india this is being uh undermined but also of course iran's connectivity with with china so um but uh but i'm just wondering about the feasibility here because how what exactly can boots on the ground achieve but also can the united states get the boots on the ground because they're quite overextended already right so

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so um the boots on the ground it's basically to maintain the war right so the problem with um with air warfare which is what the americans and israelis have been using for the past six weeks is that um your your it's gonna be very hard to maintain your your air power uh we're already seeing some planes crashing because they're not well maintained we're seeing the iranians adapt very uh creatively and resiliently to american air power so you you can only establish aero supremacy by having boots on the ground and so i think the main objective of the boots on the ground is not necessarily to take over iran i mean that's a suicide mission but it's basically to secure the coastline and try to degrade iran's um air defenses and basically force um iran on the defensive the main objective i think if i'm fighting this war i think my main objective is just choke

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off torrent basically to cut off all railways cut off all roads and basically force

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the population into starvation so this is where you think we're going uh i think destroying the population or as trump would say kill off a civilization that's right that that that would

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be the strategy going forward yes to to basically besiege torrent it's just such a big country it

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seems hard to yeah again if the railroads are undermined um but uh it also has its own domestic problems though the that trump needs to you know it's not a popular war among the public and it has some fierce political opposition only intensified with the political polarization uh i i do want to ask about nato though because this is uh was often perplexing to many europeans because uh while you know in the gulf states they're now discussing the extent to which the you know being frontline states for the us is actually harmful to the security they're having some of these talks in east asia as well but in europe i mean they must be the most loyal obedient allies or frontline states of the united states uh i i'm convinced they would have possibly joined the war on iran if you would have asked them before it went south but um but but why why

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is does it seem to be such an objective for trump to i guess uh undermine nato because this is uh the main i mean the europeans don't have much political imagination to have security without the united states so you know it looks like a massive resource to have the europeans essentially buy whatever america wants uh to to use you know use their currency buy their energy buy their expensive weapons i mean europeans will do anything if they believe america will be there for them so i make this big show out of we're not going to be there for you anymore because if this one thing that would make the europeans break off and seek an independent path from the united states it's essentially the us has to shut the them because they're not otherwise they wouldn't shut the door on america so it's a bit strange how i can understand that nato's not um that

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the europeans they're not really a force amplifier they're not bringing much to the table they're a bit of a cost but still it's a bit uh yeah strange how dismissive he is on them though so i think that the real war is actually not between united

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states and iran i mean the real war is between the globalists and the nationalists right so in the united states it would be a war between the financial elite as represented by the state of london and wall street versus mag in america first and so what trump wants to do is basically transition america from an empire into something called a technate which is the idea of a greater north america right so move away from the world and just focus on consolidating greater north america taking over canada to go more greenland taking over cuba um venezuela colombia uh honduras nicaragua okay so so these countries that trump has been pissing off for the past few months okay but the grand vision is to transition america into greater north america and become a continental fortress that sells resources to the rest of the world because the rest of the world is at war and in it and

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it's in desperate need of both fertilizer and energy and so um trump is in desperate need of both fertilizer and energy and so um trump's really sees nato as part of the deep state as part of the global globalist class and so he's using this war as a pretext to severe relations with nato basically trump would be perfectly happy if nato were to go into ukraine and be absolutely massacred by the russians that would solve um a major headache of of his so um yes there is this war going on between united states and iran but we have to forget that there's but we should not forget there's also a shadow war going on between um the globalists and the nationalists in america this is also why washington dc is supportive of trump's war because the globalists want iran to be humbled they want iran to be destroyed so that they can extend the hegemony

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of the empire and they think that trump is a useful idiot a puppet in in order to achieve this goal and that's why the democrats have not stopped him you know there was recently two weeks ago no king's protests united states millions of people and like you you were allowed to say no kings but you were not allowed to say no war right you would think like that people would be much more governed eyes by an anti -war settlement than it is than they are are by like an anti -tyrant settlement but during the protests which were organized by uh democratic lobbyist lobby groups uh which were very pro -zionist you you are not allowed to voice any anti -war settlement you're not allowed to voice any anti -war settlement so it just goes to show you that all of washington dc is fully behind this war and they think that trump will be the

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scapegoat that that even if this war goes badly trump will be the one that takes all the blame the republicans will be wiped out in the midterms and then uh democrats can steamroll back in office in 2028 and then they can implement a globalist agenda and destroy maga once and for

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all yeah this language though the globalists versus the nationalists it's fascinating that uh the first time i read about this divide was by samuel huntington on another back in 2004 he wrote this article dead souls where he was making the point that all this globalization had essentially created a political elite detached from the nation so he was making the prediction that the future divisions in the world would be between the cosmopolitans or globalists versus the nationalists or patriots so i thought it was insightful again it's uh it's interesting that you say that in 2004 yeah it's been 22 years and if you listen to a lot of the new populist leaders we have this is what they're marine le pen to ift this is essentially the same language they also use now uh let me just ask a last question though how does russia fit into this because all the pieces kind of make sense

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that i understand the rivalry between the united states china uh the the problem of iran but uh but russia is you know it's an energy superpower in many ways it's not it doesn't have to be an opponent of the united states uh it's within this rivalry between the cosmopolitans and the uh and the nationalists it's uh it belongs to the the latter it seems so uh how do you see this yeah impacting the thinking in the united states but it's the whole partner to iran and china should have had right yeah so right

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now um the united states main adversary is that china um it's really russia because russia is the only country that has the resources uh the political will um and the territorial integrity in order to challenge american hegemony and so um right now america's major concern is this russia and this war against iran is really seen as a way to counter uh russia's aggression in ukraine basically once russia wanted ukraine um america has actually no choice but to um attack iran in order to counter uh russia's um possible control over the heartland and so this is going to be the defining struggle for the world for next 20 years not between the united states and china but between russia and america and the great question is where will the world align over the next 20 years if history is a guide most countries will start to align with russia because if you go back go back

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to the peloponnesian war the main aggressor was athens and what happened ultimately was that um the entire world ultimately aligned against athens because athens was seen as the great aggressor so right now uh the great aggressor is america and we can see that the world especially europe and iran and china turning to russia as the great salvation and what russia will do is start to challenge america in the seas again i don't think there's any hope that russia will win against america and the seas but russia has absolutely no choice but to start to challenge america