---
title: "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32 transcript"
description: "Source-synced transcript archive for Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32."
source_title: "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32"
published_at: "2026-06-24"
source_class: "episode"
public_url: "https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/"
markdown_url: "https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript.md"
text_url: "https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript.txt"
source_url: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0"
data_url: "https://jianglens.com/data/lens/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0.json"
---

# Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32 transcript

- Source: [Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0)
- Published: 2026-06-24, day precision
- Human transcript page: [/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/)
- Episode page: [/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/)
- Transcript Markdown: [/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript.md](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript.md)
- Transcript text: [/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript.txt](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript.txt)
- Episode JSON: [/data/lens/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0.json](https://jianglens.com/data/lens/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0.json)

## Transcript

### 0:00 seg-0001

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=0s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=0s)

okay um good morning um welcome back so there are a couple of outstanding issues from last class that i would like to address so carol's son uh who was here he had a question about what is difference between pride and ego and this is a very hard question okay so first let's think about thinking about what the ego is so in the kabbalah tradition uh and the kabbalah tradition is very much um influenced by the divine comedy if you learn the kabbalah and you read the divine comedy you see a lot of similarities and these are not coincidental but in the kabbalah tradition um there is divine spark in everyone but it's covered by the husk okay the husk you can say it's the body it's the ego but for the kabbalah tradition the ego is basically just a body and desire to fulfill the body which means material pleasures okay so in the kabbalah

### 1:11 seg-0002

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=71s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=71s)

tradition that's what the ego means dante doesn't see it that way um for dante the ego is really the divine spark okay in that it can propel us to uh good things and do bad things so it's potentiality as opposed to just a good or bad okay it's potential potentiality uh and the ego can lead us astray and when it leads us to astray it's because of pride okay and so for dante pride is an issue because it wants you it wants um the other egos to subordinate to your ego right so it's one of superiority a feeling of superiority where you are above others and for dante that's a problem because that limits your access to god okay love is about equality it's about um being egalitarian and treating others with respect and trusting others and the ego the pride it's about um um elevating yourself above others okay and the classic example of

### 2:36 seg-0003

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=156s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=156s)

pride in divine comedy is virgil right virgil okay so that's the difference for um in most religious traditions there's really they don't really separate the two ego is pride but for dante there is a difference ego is potentiality it's possibility and pride is a perversion of the ego okay the ego should lead should lead you towards faith hope and love and wealthy ego you could not actually go on this path but um if you go on the wrong path it leads you to pride okay and again uh in the in the divine comedy even though it's not explicit uh virgil is the manifestation the expression of pride okay and we can see that in his actions um where um he uh but it will become more obvious as we go as we go along okay so that's the first issue does it make sense to everyone okay uh second issue is the issue of homosexuality

### 3:41 seg-0004

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=221s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=221s)

okay and this is an issue that raised concerns um so one question that i was asked yesterday is okay um what's the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality okay so so that so so thank you for for raising that question and i went to the question and i went back and i thought about this and even though my explanation is okay it's not truthful enough because the way for us to understand truth is occam's razor okay occam's razor is the idea of elegance meaning i should be very i should be able to pretty simply and clearly explain the idea and i and i was not able to do that yesterday it raised a lot of questions it raised a lot of doubts so even though we were approaching the truth we were not addressing it the truth so let me today try to more clearly and simply explain the pump of homosexuality okay and so um

### 4:46 seg-0005

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=286s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=286s)

yesterday i made things a bit complicated i brought in the idea of incest and that was very confusing okay let's not do that okay let's just like stick with dante so with dante the key to understanding him is to first appreciate the punishment at work okay because for dante the punishment is god's perfect justice okay so we need to understand the punishment first and the punishment for these homosexuals is they are in a planes where like there's raining missiles on them okay and so they have to dodge these missiles for homosexuals they have to do it in a group okay they have to do it in a group and if one of them strays from the group that person is punished harder now this is interesting to think about because why would homosexuals be punished in such a manner okay so now we think about let's not think about what they did wrong but if

### 5:46 seg-0006

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=346s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=346s)

the punishment is you have to stick together as a group and you're being punished as a group if you fall away from the group you're punished even harder what kind of people should be punished like that right if we knew what the punishment is and we understand that these punishments are reflection of god's perfect justice then what kind of people what did you do wrong in society

### 6:15 seg-0007

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=375s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=375s)

that would make god punish you like this uh yes uh this thing these things they're like superior to the to the society as a general like they're they feel like they're entitled so they're they feel like they're above like uh like the normal people good okay so that's getting

### 6:39 seg-0008

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=399s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=399s)

somewhere okay but again what do they do wrong that sounds like pride but why are they being punished as a group

### 6:50 seg-0009

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=410s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=410s)

yes you know maybe uh homosexual things is kind of group just for male or for females so if in that case the male they don't need a female female also don't need a male tool so maybe

### 7:02 seg-0010

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=422s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=422s)

they animate each other right right let's not think about like their homosexuals or i'm saying what kind of people would deserve the sort of punishment yes um in that conception

### 7:14 seg-0011

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=434s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=434s)

people who are super self -centered you want to force them to be in a group and think as a group

### 7:22 seg-0012

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=442s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=442s)

okay that makes sense okay yeah people were too selfish and so they have to work together but they're not they're not working together being punished together right so basically this idea of factionalism right or mafia or fraternity does that make sense because the idea of fraternity the idea of mafia the idea of factionalism is that you only care about your own group and you're going to hurt others in order to achieve your own interests and that's why they're being punished like this okay so now if if it's these people who are engaged in mafia or fraternity or factionalism that uh should be that would be punished like this what does this have to do with homosexuality okay that's a question all right and again this should be clear all right so so make sure that my logic is clear to you each step of the way right the punishment is they're being punished for factionalism

### 8:26 seg-0013

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=506s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=506s)

the question then is what does this have to do with homosexuality

### 8:31 seg-0014

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uh yes no coming back so like same in the mafia you act in some way and then you're part of the mafia forever and we could see the same pattern in homosexuality right have you guys heard something

### 8:45 seg-0015

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called the gay mafia pig mafia gay mafia okay these are people people who control hollywood right if you go to hollywood they're like we're controlled by the pig mafia the gay mafia all right so so so so let me explain this okay all right so ideal society everyone should rise a according to his or her individual merit right in an ideal society that's what donnie believes like it doesn't matter what faction you are it doesn't matter where your family comes from it doesn't matter all that matters is your individual merit that that's what's ideal but in reality the people who often triumph are people who are able to conspire together right so the question then is how are homosexuals able to conspire together okay so and the reason why is they're often persecuted by society so they have to work in secret okay and so they help each other in order to obtain success and

### 9:56 seg-0016

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they're not doing it out of evil or malice they're doing it just to like be able to love each other okay and so that's why if you just look at history if you look at any bureaucracy in any society people who often climb highest in this bureaucracy tend to be homosexuals does it make sense okay and you go back to imperial china the unix right you sorry you go to the vatican right you go to washington dc you go to hollywood it's usually homosexuals that climb to the top again this is not being i'm not saying this is evil but like just so that they can practice your love for each other they have to work at class when together okay and they have to help each other and so they become a mafia right the pink mafia the gay mafia and but because the mafia they able to climb higher together because they're able

### 10:57 seg-0017

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to coordinate together secretly in a way that others are not able to does it make sense yes could this be linked to your

### 11:06 seg-0018

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like previous ideas like by breaking taboo like bond is generated yes yes

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okay yes and that also explains why if one breaks away then he's punished harder because he's breaking the vow to the group and the secret that he had to

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exactly exactly right exactly thank you very much and the other issue is okay like why can't heterosexuals do this because if you're a heterosexual you marry a woman right and the woman demand demands that only you are loyal to her whereas with gay lovers you can share with others right you can expand that the group in a way you can't expand the group with you were heterosexual doesn't make sense all right okay I guess following this logic okay now now the question is like why would this be a bad thing not bad and reason why is that if a certain group are able to amass more power for themselves right this forces other people to form their own factions doesn't make sense in order to compete you have no choice in the matter right so now you have more factionalism going on all right and so now what happens is that the elite fight amongst

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themselves because it's factional politics now and when the elite fights fight amongst themselves they're able what they're doing is they're monopolizing all resources for themselves which creates more inequality right in society if you don't have a faction when most people don't have a faction you're completely screwed and so there's this massive inequality which creates all this economic pressure and then you have to fight for yourself and you can't fight for yourself because you can't talk to yourself and you can't seem to be able to open doors and the only way for you to respond if you're an ordinary person well a faction is to commit fraud right and then what happens is lawlessness takes place so um that's why Don haight's Morocco homosexuality daday's concern about homosexuality he knows that yes these best and brightest are our homosexuals and he's in for him the something wrong homosexuality it's whatあ ‑‑ homosexuality it's what a homosexuality

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lead to in society that's a problem and funny is right accumulated to saw me anyway society after that um darüber With a bureaucracy. Eventually, the homosexuals take over. And this creates factionalism, this creates moral decay, this creates lawlessness, this creates corruption. So, does this make sense now?

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Sorry, I still don't understand why homosexuality is able to form factions while heterosexuality cannot.

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Okay, alright. So, let me explain this again, okay? Or you want to, yes.

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Yeah, because I'm thinking of the symmetry between Inferno 16 and Paradiso 16. Because, in theory, in Paradiso 16, we're also talking about factions, families, right? But I guess the core lesson that I think, if I remember back on Paradiso 16, was that there was a line, there was a concept where it says, like, the individual should serve the family instead of the family. Making that individual noble.

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Yeah.

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You get what I mean? So, bringing it back to Inferno 16, right? I don't know if it's homosexuality or self -indulgence of self -centeredness, but the idea of, you know, cases where I observe people with homosexual tendencies tending to rise is because they're able to harness the power of the group to serve them. Yes. Right? By withholding participation. So, I... In my mind, that kind of makes sense and is elegant.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=892s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=892s)

Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. So, let me explain it another way, okay? Homosexuals are able to have multiple lovers. That's not a problem for them. Right? Do you understand this idea?

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I feel like love is still love.

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Okay. So, with heterosexuals, if you love someone, you get married, right? Right. So, a marriage is a compact between two people and only two people. And if you bring another person, like a mistress, well, that breaks the bond. Do you understand? Yes?

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I think for female homosexuals, and lesbians, they are more committed to one on one relationship. But if it's like male homosexuals, then it's completely different. So, it's a different game. It's like you could have multiple lovers and that is okay. So, I think that's why it's hard.

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for you as a girl to understand yeah okay all right so so yeah okay thank you yes yes if you're a woman and someone loves you right you want that you want that to be a one -on -one thing right whereas if you're a man you don't really care so so you'll be able to have like a large um network of male lovers and again like if you just like look at any history whether it's washington dc or hollywood i mean like it's pretty common okay uh yes and i think it's uh not just about

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like being being a homosexual it's about like having a same vision so you can like uh assemble a group together like secret society and it follows the same logic right to to infiltrate

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the bureaucracy yeah no i i again i don't think the intention is evil i just think they want to they just want to like be homosexuals right because that's what gives them happiness but to do so because they're so heavily persecuted by others they have no choice but to become a secret society okay um

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yes and i also have heard that uh in homosexual society uh the people they got their some people they got their right to have more lovers but some people don't have the right to get and some people played in the male role and some people played in the female role so this is kind of hierarchy order

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in the homosexual uh you know society like that right yes okay yes um yeah so well we're talking about like back then gay marriage marriage or homosexuality was more like persecuted but nowadays more accepted right so for example like when you look at tel aviv or like this like red for example also the middle class people are more open and uh homosexual and they're not really like about taking power or like trying to right

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okay so society right so so so so this is what don is saying here um i said he's rising society's focus on expanding society on family on marriage a lot of social policies are centered around the family okay but once a society has become decadent then the elite don't really care about society all they care about is indulging in their own desires and they want to feel good about themselves and they really don't care about the impact on society um so so if you look at today yes there is openness and acceptance but at the same time the only thing about election anạt okay not just it like they looked at washington dc where the trump family is just engaged in the most egregious uh corruption and they're not even hiding it okay they're just open about it they're like you know if you give me if you give me if you're in prison you

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give me a like you know 10 million dollars i'll let you out it's open okay now let me let me ask you this okay let's imagine donald trump he's kicked out of office in 2028 the democrats come in what are they going to do uh yes put him in prison they'll probably put him in prison and then what what are they going to do it's gonna purge his family excuse me it's gonna purge his family yeah yeah yeah yeah they'll go after trump but then what are they gonna do ask for a ransom they'll probably be even worse okay you understand they they'll they'll say you know like we come in we'll clean house and we'll restore the sanctity of the american republic no they're not coming in they'll engage even more corruption okay so so that's what donna is saying here like when the elite lose their sense of responsibility to the people then

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society just becomes the anchor it just goes into free fall okay and um yes i mean i don't want to say homosexuality is bad the reason why people kept homosexuality hidden before was they had to pay they had to be that's a virtue to the family right they had to pretend at least the family was important yeah i mean like they probably had these homosexual affairs on the side but at least they were hypocrites at least they made a point of like playing to the public perception right uh yes yeah what about lgbt do

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you think denting will agree with that or do you think it's the same thing as homosexuality right

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there's no difference uh you know it's the same idea it's the same sense of like self -indulgence and what matters is my own pleasure my own happiness and i really don't care the impact on society okay that doesn't make sense guys all right so so again what we're doing is we're trying to um logically come to understand uh dante's uh cosmology okay all right so um but again i want to thank you guys for raising questions for doubting for challenging because this helps us as a group to think much more deeper okay so dante implants in the mind comment a lot of paradoxes which allows us to think deeper and we are we are able to arrive at the truth through uh exploration and food debate okay uh yes i think one thing that would be worth exploring

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is to actually interview you know maybe people around us who are homosexuals um you know what what what exactly dante is trying to convey here because I guess at the end of the day all punishment is self -punishment right it's it's a it's a it's an internal Loop right I think the answers would be in in in those individuals just asking just you know maybe trying to learn

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more okay um so um a couple comments um uh first of all this is being live streamed and we need to be conscious uh protecting people's privacy okay um uh but yes I I think that if we were to share our stories more this would help the discussion but the constraint is that this is being um live stream and the other thing is that because it's being live stream and because we're dealing with different contacts we're in China we're broadcasting a global audience um you know we are at the Yale Beijing Center uh of the cultural sensitivities of each cult of of each place okay um um and um look censorship is a reality in this world ideally we we'll be free to complete explore and that's what leads to good is true but we're living in a time of massive censorship and where you'll be judged uh unfairly for things you say okay uh

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this is a different time um I mean when I was growing up when we were in college like like free speech was the primary ideal like like it's something like you don't you don't do that to people like you may disagree with them but you don't censor them that that was that was considered a sin now it's just very common practice to cancel people for things they they say people are judged very harshly yes um so I

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actually had this question yesterday as well so what about those people who purposefully chose not to have kids in some ways they're also blocking social mobility just like the homosexuals in a certain way but they're not depicted in like anywhere in the Divine Comedy so and how would Donnie feel about these people who don't have kids like if they chose not to have kids I feel like in some ways it's like similar to like the homosexuals so I feel like he should have like a similar

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feeling well okay okay well here's here's a question then okay in the Catholic Church what kind of people are most revered yeah yeah right that's a problem

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monks and yeah yeah go ahead and also you have to take in the time back then in the 14th century there's probably no condoms and so there's no way like you said that I want to choose to be not having kids if I'm married it's not usually an option unless you're a priest obviously you're not married in the first place so then for Dante's card to understand they are married couples who kids so then that's why maybe it's not in the you know listed here it's not an option back then

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and also like if you're a woman okay if you had a free will you probably would not want to get married why that doesn't want to know yeah because if you give birth there's one third of a chance or more yeah guys you understand how how awful it was to be a woman back then there were no condoms there was no hygiene there were no hospitals one third chance of dying in childbirth right it's like suicide and like quite honestly like you're expected to give birth a lot right it's like the first one third doesn't hit you yes it's very common for a woman to die a childbirth at this time so including including beatrice beatrice died giving birth at 24 at 24 right so so so so yeah okay uh any more questions before we we move on yes so in my in my research of aristotelian

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telios like have you just i missed yesterday afternoon so did you discuss the telios like everything has a specific purpose in life and i see i see the difference between lust and homosexuality because they're on separate levels as being like lust you're focusing on one thing one thing perhaps the correct thing right because if if uh augustine and dante would be saying um the purpose of of of a relationship would be reproduction and marriage if you're lusting that could happen you're just wanting it in maybe an incorrect way or too much but in homosexuality the telios is off because there there is no reproduction that could happen and so i see this as or i don't see this i'm reading scholars who are pointing out that homosexuality is just simply an act of lust and it's not a act of lust and it's not a act of lust it's a act of lust and it's

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not a act of lust and it's not a act of lust and it's not a act of lust and it's not a act of lust and lust is a correct telios but in an incorrect incorrect proportion and so all of this extra stuff might be fine and social it just seems like muddying the waters where aristotelian uh understanding would simplify it okay so that you

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build aristotle and that's a very interesting analysis at this time aristotle is very popular and dante would have known aristotle he would have known the idea of telios and he would have the idea of telos is purpose right you come here for purpose and you achieve happiness by achieving your your telos and on that i idea dante would agree but um but for aristotle telos is really about fulfilling your social responsibility whereas for dante he's very much an individualist in meaning like for telos is about fulfilling yourself okay now um their citizens would say there's really no difference but uh for dante there is a major difference right one the difference is uh between fulfilling people's exploitation of your telos as to number two really understanding your telos and achieving your telos okay and so basically what the airstylist say is look society knows what's best if society says you should go have children then

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that's your telos but what donnie would say no no no you trust your intuition right if your telos is like i just want to approach you for the rest of my life and i don't have children then you should just follow your intuition okay so so that's that's the difference but but you absolutely right aristotle is very important at this state at this time in history all right any more comments or questions this is great by the way um and it really shows uh your depth of understanding has radically improved over the past few days yes uh like uh previously you said

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that uh any any great art in the history uh whether it's uh homer or uh divine comedy was often created by one single person right and uh and is uh often driven by the strong will and and uh but like i think uh uh like go back to the question of about like self -indulgence um but like there also can be a like those narcissists can also hold a strong will right while being like uh self -indulgent uh so what separates uh a artist like a sacred inwardness

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with uh to a narcissist okay all right so yesterday i i i did say the problem homosexuality is self -indulgence and i recognize that is incorrect okay that's why i went back and i self -reflected and i came up with a new understanding and in this new understanding the problem isn't self -indulgence the problem is factionalism okay so donna is not saying in self -indulgence is a problem prize a problem self -indulgence is not a problem you need a you need a bit of self -love you need a bit of ego if you are if you are to achieve or create a great piece of art okay all right all right great any more questions before we start okay

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let's let's start cattle uh infernal 21. canto 21. we came along from one bridge to another talking of things my comedy is not concerned to sing we held fast to the summit and stayed our steps to spy the other cleft of melabojay and other vain laments i saw that it was wonderfully dark as in the arsenal of the venetians all winter long a stew of sticky pitch boils up to patch their sick and tattered ship that cannot sail instead of a row some of the stern and some make oars and some braid ropes and cords one men's the jib another the main sail so not by fire but by the art of god below there boiled a thick and terry mass that covered all the banks with claminess i saw it but i could not see within it no thing was visible but boiling bubbles the swelling of the pitch and then it settled and

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- Transcript segment: [https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0056](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0056)
- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=1881s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=1881s)

while I washed below attentively my guide called out to me take care take care and then from where I stood he drew me near I turned around as one who's impatient to see what he should shun but is dashed down beneath the terror he has undergone who does not stop his flight and yet would look and then in back of us I saw a black demon as he came racing up the cracks ah he was surely barbarous to see and how relentless seemed to me his acts his wings were open his feet were life across his shoulder which was sharp and high he had slung a sinner upward from the thighs in front the demon gripped him by the ankles then from our bridge he called Omele bronchi I've got an elder of Saints Vita for you chef this one under I'll go back for more his city is well furnished with such stores there

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=1932s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=1932s)

everyone's a grafter but Bontoro and there for cash they'll change a no to yes he threw the center down that wheeled along the stony cliff no mastiff ever been unleashed with so much haste to chase a thief the center plunged then surfaced black with pitch but now the demons from beneath the bridge shouted the sacred face has no place here here we swim differently than in this Circio if you don't want to feel our grappling hooks don't try to lift yourself above that ditch they pricked him with a hundred prongs and more and then taunted here one dances undercover so try to grab your secret graft below okay all right so we are in the

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=1975s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=1975s)

circle of fraud where everyone lies and deceives and steals uh and here this is the punishment for the for grafters people who engage in corruption and graft and um the example being used is this um priest who who obviously is engaging in simony and um the punishment is to basically fester in boiling uh in a in boiling excrement and some of them feel the pain so much that they try to Escape they try to escape and then the demons catch them and tear them and tear them apart and that that is their uh punishment okay all right let's come

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2019s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2019s)

demons did the same as any cook who has his Urchins forced to meet with clicks deep down into the pot float then my good master said to me don't let those demons see that you're here take care to crouch behind the cover of a crag no matter what offense they offer me don't be afraid i know how these things go i'll have to face such focuses before when this was said he moved beyond the bridgehead and on the sixth embankment he had need to show his imperturbability ability with the same frenzy with the brouhaha of dogs when they beset a poor wretch who then stops dead in his tracts as if to beg so from beneath the bridge the demons rushed against my guide with all their prongs but he called out can't you forget your savagery before you try to maul me just let one of your troops step forward hear me out and

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then decide if i'm to be hooked at this they howled let melakota go and one of them moved up the others died and as he came he asked how can he win a malakota do you think i've come my master answered him already armed as you can see against your optics obstacles without the will of god and helpful fate let us move on it is the will of heaven for me to show this wild way to another at this the pride of malakota fell his prong dropped his feet he told his fellows since that's the way things stand let us not wound him my guy my guide then spoke to me oh you who crouched bent low among the bridges splintered rocks you can feel safe and

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now return to me okay so um daunting virgil see these demons okay and in this stage in the story there are some things that are unusual what what's unusual about the story what is that that that's happening that didn't really happen before what strikes you as strange in the story so far as

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2159s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2159s)

yes that demons are the one punishing whereas before it was like natural causes yes okay yeah

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so so first of all um demons are in charge of the punishment uh yes okay but there's a bigger surprise here and this didn't really happen before where's dante he's hiding right this hasn't happened before this is the first time that that donnie's hiding so so what does this tell us about the emotional state of virgil how's he feeling right now why would why would donnie hide here but not elsewhere right they went to the city of dis and that this was this was also ruled by fallen angels but donnie didn't hide yes i think he starts to lose

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2224s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2224s)

trust in virgil and he's afraid of virgil can't control the demons that he used to but who told

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2230s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2230s)

donnie to hide virgil it was virgil who told donna to hide right so that doesn't make much sense but keep on going what's going on here yeah virgil's afraid it's not donnie's afraid it's virgil who's afraid okay and so how does virgil respond to his own fear what are ways in which you you can respond with fear to fear your own fear how is virgil responding to his fear by all fright so

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2269s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2269s)

either you fight it or you run away from it so he kind of fights it he kind of stands up and be like hey bring one guy and talk to me and let's see if we can figure this out right okay yeah that's

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2279s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2279s)

well by projecting his fear onto someone else he can he kind of can deal with it well because virgil i don't know how can he even feel fear if he's not alive if he's not even it's not what i

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2297s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2297s)

i don't understand so he doesn't have a body but he still has emotions right right otherwise how could you be punished in hell if you have actually no emotions you can't feel any punishment right so all i can say is there is nothing he can do right in hell right now but first of all i'll just put right how does how does virgil choose to confront the demons right Virgil's are free to the demons right Virgil's fraid of the demons so what does he do to deal with the demons

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2325s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2325s)

but he says there's a higher power protecting me so don't touch me

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2330s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2330s)

yeah right he's flexing he's being arrogant right right so to deal with his fear he's choosing to be proud and arrogant before the demons okay and the demon sends his pride and they uh lower themselves to uh virgil okay does it make sense the logic here virgil's afraid and he doesn't really know how to control the situation so his first instinct is to protect dante uh and then virgil goes up and confronts the demons and flexes right says you know i'm much stronger than you obey me and demon's like fine whatever okay right why should we be suspicious here of of what's going on yes i have a question because

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2385s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2385s)

you i said i remember you said uh the virgil should be a master of the of the hell but why he's just afraid of demon in this case because you're doing factions in hell right the thing

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about hell is like it's like italy where no one's really in charge everyone's fighting each other because of their pride right okay so he he's master of certain parts of hell but not all parts of hell as you go deeper into hell he loses control okay all right okay like if you're a demon and someone is flexing at you what what should your response be yeah like i can punch you out man right so so this is very suspicious you know again this is when when there's a paradox it forces something deeper right why are the demons being so obedient right why the demons lowering themselves and and so what what do you think the answer is we are in the circle of freud guys deception right do you understand okay that's that's what these demons are they are engaging deception they enjoy deception right does that make sense and if you are this demon

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and you're a head demon and you love deception�� you think you can deceive virgil why okay okay so let us um think of an example from real life okay all right um yes because by uh by trick by trickling virgil you basically mocking god no no no no i'm trying to figure out how he figured out you can trick virgil uh yes virgil's

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is in limbo so he's in a relatively speaking much nicer place than these people these guys okay all

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right all right so we don't want to overthink things okay the solution has to be simple and elegant so let's just think of example where you know you're with your friend okay and maybe you know you go to and i'm just making this up okay you go to you go to turkey for vacation and your friend um you know maybe maybe your friend lives in turkey and you're gonna go visit your friend in turkey right and your friend in turkey wants to show you a good time so then your friend takes you to this uh bazaar the store and he's like you know like oh i i know how to haggle right you understand the logic here right and what's the shop shop what are you gonna do he's gonna see like you're your friend right you don't lose face you want to show how much in control you are right doesn't make sense and

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so you recognize oh it's just arrogance it's this pride i can take advantage of doesn't make sense okay so so again the thing about literature is you can always apply it to real life and it has to make sense okay does that make sense guys all right so the demon recognizes hmm virgil thinks he's got gone inside right well i can probably rip him off now right because he's so he's so arrogant he's so full of himself it's easier to trick arrogant people than this trick humble people okay does that make sense

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all right uh let's let's keep on going line 88 my the guide then spoke to me oh you who crouched bent low among the bridges splintered rocks you can feel safe and now return to me at this i moved and quickly came to him the devils had edged forward all of them i feared that they would not be able to keep their word just so i saw the infantry where they mar when they marched out under safe conduct from caprona they trembled when they passed their enemies my body huddled closer to my guide i did not let the demons out of sight the looks they cast at us

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were less than kind how how is dante feeling right now scared yeah he's probably like it doesn't doesn't feel right okay you know you're at this bazaar and it's clear the shop shop owner is going to rip us off we should be careful right but your friend's like no i know this guy we're like we're like you know we went to school together he's gonna give me face he's gonna give us a best deal okay all right so dante is afraid um keep on going line 100 they bent their hooks and

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shouted to each other and shall i give it to him on the rump and all of them replied yes let him have but malakota still in conversation with my good guy turned quickly to his squadron and said be still smart scarmiglione still to us he said there's no use in going much farther on this ridge because the sixth bridge at the bottom there is smashed to bits yet if you two still want to go ahead move up and walk along this rocky edge nearby another which will form a path five hours from this hour yesterday 1266 years past since that roadway was shattered here i'm sending 10 of mine out there to see if any sinners lift this head for air go with my men there's no malice in them okay so he's saying

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that can you don't keep on going because the bridge was destroyed by jesus when he came to hell there's another way i'm going to send 10 of my men with you and again just the idea that he says there is no malice in them like don't do evil you should be careful right like we won't trick you okay we mean you no harm that's probably a sign you should be careful but again virgil is too arrogant to recognize this okay i could keep on going line 118 step forward alokino and

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cal cabrino he then began to say and you cognazzo and babarichia who can lead the ten lilly picocco and draganazzo and tusky chariato and rafia kane and far from relo and matt rubiconte search all around the clammy stew of pitch keep these two safe and sound till the next bridge that rise without break across the den on me what is it this master that i see i said can't we do without company if you know how to go i want no escort if you're just as keen as usual can't you see how those demons grind their teeth their brows are menacing they promise trouble and he to me i do not want you frightened just let them nash away as they may wish they do it for the wretches boiled in pitch they turned around along the left bank bank left hand bank but first each pressed his tongue between his teeth a signal for

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their leader babarichia and he had made a trumpet of his ass okay so um what does donnie

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do here that he's never done before yeah do you guys do you guys see this okay he's actually challenging virgil verbally maybe before he had before he had his doubts right but he kept them good out of respect for virgil so why is donnie doing this why is donnie challenging virgil and saying we really shouldn't trust these guys right he's he's he's now verbally challenging virgil why to me he's afraid of getting tricked okay he's fair yes uh what else isn't virgil's pride getting

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2891s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2891s)

in the way here and so dante is just like forget about getting the good deal at the bazaar man

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2898s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2898s)

just let's just go exactly right and why would you do that i mean i would do it because of

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2908s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2908s)

frustration i would just be like there's a simpler way you're making this more complex than it needs

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to be why dante does it i don't okay okay no uh yes well just this intuition maybe says it so right

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2922s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2922s)

but again we've been reading the divine harmony and there are lots of cases where donnie doesn't really feel right about this situation but it doesn't really speak up right he's afraid but he doesn't really speak up and now he no no no no does he speak up but he's actually challenging virgil says like here your intuition may not be correct why would he do that yes i think it's

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basically his literary work is trying to show that maybe he's hinting that he could be better than virgil because he's the meek and human like the humble one so you could see the truth more simply than virgil so he's trying to show that this is the turning point where i will be you know the better poet or the better person in the situation okay all right let's think think of an

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2972s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=2972s)

example okay so you're in school and this is primary school and there's a classmate and this classmate you know is cheating okay now there are there's been some classmates who are going to go up and up and says hey i saw you cheating don't cheat okay there'll be some other classmates who just ignore this what's the difference who would go up to the cheating student and says look you're cheating and the teacher's gonna catch you so maybe you just stop in what instance would you yes it could be a as an act of love it's an act of love you understand it's an act of love because you're putting yourself at risk as well right you're you're putting yourself when you tell your friend let's get out of here right not only are you angering your friend's pride but you might piss off the shop owner as well it's an act of love you're putting

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yourself at risk okay does that make sense it's not an act of like i know more than you virgil right you can't know more than virgil because virgil's your god in hell it's an act of like virgil uh i love you and uh i want to protect you as you're protecting me okay so what this is telling us is that what this really what this journey really is it's a journey into love where vert don before had tremendous respect for virgil but now they're just becoming like very close because all these adventures they're having in at in um in hell right um does that make sense guys and so this is this so what's really important to understand is not just the cosmology not just understand um um danish theology but we understand that this ultimately um a journey um and a love story between dante and virgil okay so there is this there's this

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3095s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3095s)

conflict between the two but there's also real deep affection between the two and it's very much real okay and and we know what's going to happen we know that eventually they'll have to uh part okay but the idea is to create so much affection in us you for virgil and dante that when they do part we we we cry with them when they do part okay does that make sense all right yes she had said something that i wanted to build off of

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3127s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3127s)

dante the poet sorry there's three dantes dante's the poet sat down to write this recollection to get to explain faith hope and love but i guess they could all be unified as capital t truth and he's in the realm of liars right and so essentially he would be like the longer they stay here the longer you stay here in the realm of liars they're ruining my poem of truth right so let's let's get out of the lie realm because i'm i'm transcribing truth right okay so that's an

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3158s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3158s)

interesting interpretation and um i would disagree um because why would what's it important for dante to journey into hell right because because why is donny talking to these souls that are being punished i learned nothing yet to see right but but then what yeah yes because it's the way to paradise um it's yeah it's it's the way to paradise but remember when virgil and donnie are talking right virgil says go talk to that guy and then and then the soul is like i don't want to talk to you and then virgil is like you should talk to him because what was virgil say what can donnie do for them why should they

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3218s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3218s)

talk to him talk to him yes um go back to the world and talk about the consequences of sins

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exactly okay donnie's gonna record this so it's very important for donnie to experience as much as he can in hell it's not about escaping hell it's about truly understanding hell to share with other people okay and this is the path to truth uh not to avoid something but to experience it for yourself and then that way that heightens your understanding okay all right uh let's uh keep on going this is canto 20 uh this is canto 22 okay canto 22 before this i've seen

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horsemen start to march and open the assault and muster ranks and seen them too at times beat their retreat and oh your land oh aritnees i've seen rangers and raiding parties galloping the clash of tournaments the rush of joust now done with trumpets now with bells and now with drums and now with signs from castle walls with native things and with imported wares but never yet have i seen horsemen or seen infantry or ship that sails by signal of land or star moved to so strange a bugle we made our way together with ten demons ah what ferocious company and yet in church with saints with rotters in the tavern but i was all intent upon the pitch to seek out every feature of the pouch and of the people who were burning in it just as the dolphins do when with arched back they signal to the semen to prepare for tempest that their

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vessel may be so here from time to time to ease his torments some sinners showed his back above the surface then hit more quickly than a lightning flash and just as on the margin of a ditch frogs crouched their snouts alone above the water so as to hide their feet and their plump flesh so here on every side these sinners crouched but faster than a flash when barbaricia drew near they plunged beneath the boiling pitch i saw my heart still shudders and recall one who delayed just at just as at times a frog is left behind while others dive below with graficani who was closest to him then hooked him by his pitch and tangled locks and hauled him up he'd seem to me an otter by now i knew the names of all those demons i paid attention when the fiends were chosen i'd watch as they stepped forward one by one oh rubicante

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see you set your talents right into him so you can flay his flesh so did those cursed ones cry out together my master if you can't find out what is the name of that unfortunate who's fallen victim to his enemies my guide who then drew near that sinner's side asked him to tell his birthplace he replied my homeland was the kingdom of navarre my mother who had had me by a wastrel destroyed himself and his possessions had placed me in the service of the lord then i was in the household of the worthy kings of tebow there i started taking graft with this heat i pay reckoning for that and chiriato from his mouth their bulge to right and left two tusks like a wild hogs then let him feel how one of them could mangle the mouse had fallen in with evil cats but barbaricia clasped him in his arms and said stand off

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there while i fork him fast and turning toward my master then he said ask on if you would learn some more from him before one of the others dust him in

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okay stop okay all right so um let's feel free about this is an unusual punishment because it gives the people here an opportunity to escape right it's not like they're locked in place it's like you know there's a boiling pitch the boiling lake and you can always escape it right why would this be a fitting punishment for people who engage in

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graft yes go ahead and graft they take resources and things away from people who should have right

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okay and so why would this be a fitting punishment for them uh yes maybe because it's

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doing that is so addicting that they can't stop doing it right okay so there's a compulsion to

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them yes right they have to steal they have engaging grab yes okay that's part one part

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of it yes and the mechanism of it if you steal something you can always at every part of the journey you can always decide to turn back and give it give it back you know return whatever

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you stole why do people engage in graph what's the mentality of people who engage in graft right why do they steal what's your mentality maybe it's coveting of what others have that you don't have so you want to have it then why is this not greed what's going on here what what's

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the mentality why do they engage in graft uh yes oh yeah you mean stealing right i think stealing is kind of thing that you want to get something uh and also you can get much more benefit from it but there's no punishment there's nothing good nothing bad there so that's why people oh when they just like to steal they just stick to steal something it's really hard to give it up yeah so yeah go

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ahead yeah well also when you steal you decide that this thing that you steal is more deserving for you than the owner like you say like in you in this action like i deserve this

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and the owner doesn't really but why why do you deserve it well maybe pride okay yes anyone else

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yes at the back i feel like for greed you are kind of more focusing on like a specific thing for example like money and whatever but yeah you're really you're kind of like stealing anything yes yeah like a lot of a

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variety of stuff but what is grab you're selling from who graft has to come from a position of

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power um okay so the person here right he becomes a servant to a powerful lord and then he starts to steal from this powerful lord why is he doing that yes because the lord is at a better financial position yeah but then the lord's being generous to him right so why would you steal from him

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right yes you don't respect the lord

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you don't love the lord but yeah but why don't you respect the lord

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you reject the inherent hierarchy in your relationship okay uh yes uh maybe because just like you you're unique in the qing dynasty and they just try to uh steal something for emperor because this thing they deserve they deserve to have it because they just pay tribute

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to the emperor all the time so okay so so let's think of like a most common example of graft okay which is the accountant right so you're a rich person you have an accountant and for accounting that person is able to steal a lot of money from you what's the mentality of that person exactly i'm gonna get away with this right exactly right it's not that i'm better than you i'm like i can go get i can go with this i'm smarter than you that's what graft is i'm gonna get away with this there's no punishment i'm so sneaky i'm so clever i can get away with this so why would this punishment be fitting for these people okay they are in the boy link pitch like that kind of sucks they escape and they're caught by demons who do what to them these demons literally tear them apart right which is the worst punishment

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the second one right so it's kind of silly where look if you just stay where you are if you just stay in the boring pitch it kind of sucks but it's a lot better than being like you know torn to pieces by demons right but they can't help themselves they're like no i have to escape like i'll get away right but like we know for a fact you're not getting away because this is hell this is god's perfect justice there's no way you're gonna escape hell but for the reason they're in like no i will escape this time even though for the past 10 million times i was caught by the demon and and you know destroyed okay okay does it make sense

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yes wait so when they're torn to pieces they their bodies get back together yeah so they're torn to

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pieces then they resurrect in in the boiling pitch then they do it again and then something happens they do it again this happens like for all eternity okay so it's it's it's almost like this compulsion where they think i'll get away this time right i'll i won't get caught this time i'll be so sicky this time but it's absolutely pointless okay does that make sense all right

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keep going line 64 at which my guide now tell the sinners who hide beneath the pitch are any others italian and he i've just left one who was nearby there and would i wear it still covered by the pitch as he's hidden for then i'd have no fear of hook or talon and libby kako said we've been too patient and with his grapple grabbed him by the arm and ripping carried off a hunk of flesh but dragon not so also looked as if to grab his legs at which their captain wheeled and threatened all of them with raging looks when they'd grown fast but still had their weapons ready in the end of the battle the light of the fire was which was even troublemakers zagat total right because tumultuous without delay my guide asked of that one who had his eyes still fixed upon his wound he was the one you left to come

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ashore and luckily as you just said before he answered frakomita of golura who was a vessel fit for every fraud he had his master's enemies in hand but handled them in ways that please them all he took their gold and smoothly let them off as he himself says and in other matter matters he was a sovereign not a petty swindler His comrade there is Don Michele Zanchi of Logodoro, and their tongues are never too tired to talk of their Sardinia. Ah me, see that one there who grinds his teeth, if I were not afraid, I'd speak some more, but he's getting set to scratch my scurf. And their great marshal, facing Farforello, who was so hot to strike he rolled his eyes, said, Get away from there, you filthy bird! If you perhaps would like to see or hear, that sinner terrified began again. Lombards or Tuscans, I can fetch you some, but let the melebronchi stand aside so that my comrades may not fear their vengeance.

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Remaining in this very spot, I shall, although alone, make seven more appear when I have whistled, as has been our custom when one of us has managed to get out.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3930s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3930s)

Okay, so Donna and Virgil wants to meet more of these sinners. And... This sinner says, well, they're all in hiding. And the demons are like, let's just start tearing this guy apart, because that's what we enjoy doing. And the sinner's like, no, no, no, if you leave me alone, I'll trick seven more to appear before you. Everyone's in hiding, so if you demons just hide yourself, then I will tell them to come out, and then you can catch seven more people to rip apart, okay? So this is the circle of fraud, circle of deception. We should be wary of everything people do here, okay? All right, keep on going.

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Line 106. At that, Cagnazzo lifted up his snout and shook his head and said, Just listen to that trick by which he thinks he can dive back. To this, he who was rich in artifice replied, Then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. This was too much for Alcino, and despite the others, he cried out, If you dive back, I should not try. I will not gallop after you, but beat my wings above the pitch. We'll leave this height with the embankment as a screen. We'll see if you alone can handle us. Oh, you who read, hear now of this new sport. Each turned his eye upon the other shore, he first who'd been most hesitant before. The Navarraze, in nick of time, had planted his feet upon the ground, and in an instant he jumped and freed himself from their commander. At this, each demon felt the prick of guilt, and most he who had led his band to blunder.

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So he took off and shouted, You are caught! But this could help him little. Wings were not more fast than fear. The sinner plunged right under. The other, flying up, lifted his chest. Not otherwise. The wild duck, when it plunges precipitously, when the falcon nears and then, exhausted, thwarted, flies back up. But Calcabrino, raging at the trick, flew after Alcino. He was keen to see the sinner free and have a brawl. And once the Navarraze had disappeared, he turned his talons on his fellow demon, and tangled with him just above the ditch. But Alcino clawed him well. He was indeed a full -grown kestrel, and both fell into the middle of the boiling pond. The heat was quick to disentangle them, but still there was no way they could get out. Their wings were stuck and meshed in glue like pitch. And

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Barbaruccia, grieving with the rest, sent forth to fly out toward the other shore of all their forts. And speedily enough, on this side and on that, they took their posts. And toward those two, stuck fast, already cooked beneath that crust, they stretched their grappling hooks. We left them still contending with that mess.

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Okay, all right. So this sinner, he tricks the demons, right? Says like, you know, if you leave me alone for a few seconds, I will bring you more sinners. And the demons believe him. And then the demon says, the sinner escapes. And the demons chase after him, and they fall into the pit. Okay, so there's a paradox here, right? The sinner has lied to the demons, but there's a paradox. What is the paradox? Do you guys remember what the paradox is? Yes?

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The demons are punished, but the sinner is not.

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Okay. Well, the demons are just being stupid, right? But there's a paradox. Why do demons believe him? There's a paradox here. Okay, you guys probably don't remember. Okay, but there's a rule in hell. The rule in hell is, if you're a soul being punished, whatever words you speak to Dante and Virgil must be true. You understand? You cannot lie to Virgil and Dante. That's the rule in hell. But clearly, the sinner has lied to the demons, right? So what's going on here? This is a contradiction. Okay, so let's think about this, okay? So the demons are saying, you're lying to us. And then the sinner says, then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. Is this a lie? What's he saying here? What's he saying here?

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Like the demons are trying to hurt Dante and Virgil?

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No, no, no, no. No, I'm saying, what does this lie mean? Then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. Great. Let's go back. Yes? But it's true. He's not lying to you, okay? Do you understand? You just read what he writes, what he's speaking. It's not a lie technically. Do you understand? It's not a deception technically. You're just misinterpreting what he's saying, right? So let's go back to the example of like, you know, your friend takes you to the bazaar, right? And the bazaar shop owner says, this is the best teacup in the world. Then your friend's like, you're lying to us. And the shop owner says, if I'm lying to you, then I have no friends in the world. It could be true, okay? Do you understand? If I'm lying to you, I have no friends in the world, right? You interpret to say, okay, well then he's not lying to me.

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But it could be true, right? If I'm lying to you, I have no friends in the world. Do you understand? And this is what we call sophistry, right? Sophistry, right? You just think you're smarter than everyone else. You think that you know more than everyone else and you'll get away with everything. So you keep on doing it, okay? And so he's just playing tricks with words. Does it make sense? So he's not lying because you cannot lie in hell, but he's engaging in sophistry, okay? Constructive words to make you, to manipulate you. Does that make sense? All right, let's keep on going.

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Yes? How come he has the will to escape? Do people even think of escaping or just they think of suffering less in hell?

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Okay, yeah. So it's not the will to escape. It's a compulsion to prove you're smarter than everyone else. It's a compulsion to cheat other people. You understand? But the point is, all you're doing is you're cheating yourself, right? Because all you're doing is escaping into a grid of punishment. If you're just honest and stay where you are, you'll be fine. But you constantly want to escape. It's an addiction. Okay? Right? So the people who, at least accountants who steal from rich people, it's not necessarily they need the money. It's just like they enjoy cheating other people. Okay? All right. Countdown to 23.

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Countdown to 23. Silent, alone, no one escorting us. We made our way. One went before, one after, as friars minor when they walk together. The press and fracas, made me think of Aesop, that fable where he tells about the mouse and frog. For near and nigh are not more close than are that fable and this incident. If you compare with care how each begins and then compare the endings that they share. And even as one thought springs from another, so out of that was still another born, which made the fear I felt before redouble.

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Okay, sorry. Can you Google Aesop's fable of the frog and the horse? Okay. I don't have it remembered. Okay. So frog and horse. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Frog and mouse. Yes. Yes. Okay. So can you read it for everyone? Yeah.

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Story summary of Aesop's frog and mouse. A mouse first asked the frog for help with crossing a river to visit the frog's home. The frog agrees, but ties the mouse's leg to his own with a reed for safety. Halfway across, the frog, motivated by greed, for the mouse's food, tries to drown the mouse by diving down the surface. The mouse's dead body floats to the surface, still tied to the frog. A hawk sees the floating mouse, swoops down, and carries off both the mouse and the frog. So I guess the frog, being treacherous, ends up being prey as well for the hawk.

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Sure. Okay. So this applies to the demons, right? The demons mean to swindle Don and Virgil, cheat him, but they get greedy, they want to catch more sinners, so they fall into their own trap. Okay? So, yeah. Okay. Let's see where I'm going.

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Line 13. I thought, because of us, they have been mocked, and this inflicted so much hurt and scorn that I am sure they feel deep indignation. If anger is to be added to their malice, they will hunt us down with more ferocity than any hound whose teeth have trapped a hare. I could already feel my hair curl up from fear and I looked back attentively while saying, Master, if you don't conceal yourself in me at once, they terrify me, those melebronche, they're after us. I so imagined them, I hear them now. And heed to me. Where I, a leaded mirror, I could not gather in your outer image more quickly than I have received your inner. For even now your thoughts have joined my own in both our acts and aspects. We are kin. With both our minds I've come to one decision. If that right bank is not extremely steep, we can descend into the other moat and so escape.

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From the imagined chase. He'd hardly finished telling me his plan when I saw them approach with outstretched wings not too far from keen on taking us. My guide snatched me up instantly just as the mother who's wakened from a war and catches sight of blazing flames beside her will lift her son and run without a stop. She cares more for the child than for herself, not pausing even to throw on a shift. And down the hard embankment's edge his back lay flat along the sloping rock that closes one side of the adjacent moat. He slid. No water ever ran so fast along a sluice to turn the wheels of a land mill, not even when its flow approached the paddles, as if my master raced down that embankment while bearing me with him upon his chest, just like a son and not like a companion.

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His feet had scarcely reached the bed that lies along the deep below than those ten demons were on the edge above us. But there was nothing to fear, for that high providence that willed the ministers of the Fistitch denies to all of them the power to leave it.

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Why is Dante writing this? I mean, it's gratuitous because God has already willed Dante to go to heaven, right? So obviously the demons cannot actually do anything to them. They're protected by God. So why is Dante actually writing this scene? Yes?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4699s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4699s)

Maybe to show comradeship or something?

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Yeah, yeah, it's meant to make us understand and appreciate the growing relationship between Virgil and Dante, right? Because this is, this is like basically character building. It's meant to develop for us and help us understand the intimacy between Dante and Virgil, right? And the example is, let's just say you have two enemies, right? And they hate each other. Well, I guarantee you, if you were to dump these two guys who hate each other, who want to kill each other on a deserted island, they become best friends afterwards, right? So that's the idea here. So even though they are rivals, ultimately this journey will make them into best friends, okay? I'll keep on going.

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58. Below that point we found a painted people who moved about the lagging steps, encircled, weeping, with features tired and defeated. And they were dressed in cloaks with cows so low they fell before their eyes of that same cut that used to make the clothes for Clooney's monks. Outside these cloaks were gilded and they dazzled, but inside they were all of lead, so heavy that Frederick's capes were straw compared to them. A tiring mantle for eternity, we turn again as always to the left, along with them intent on their sad weeping. But with their weights, that weary people paced so slowly that we found ourselves among new company each time we took a step, at which I told my guide, please try to find someone whose name or deed I recognize. And while we walk, be watchful with your eyes. And one who'd taken in my Tuscan speech cried out behind us, stay your steps, oh you who hurry so along this darkened air.

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Perhaps you'll have from me that which you seek, at which my guide turned to me saying, wait and then continue following his pace. I stopped and I saw two whose faces showed their minds were keen to be with one. Both their loath and the tight path forced them to slow. When they came up they looked askance at me a long while and they uttered not a word until they turned to one another saying, the throbbing of his throat makes this one seem alive and if they're dead, what privilege lets them appear without the heavy mantle? Then they addressed me, Tuscan, you who come to this assembly of sad hypocrites, do not disdain to tell us who you are. I answered, where the lovely Arno flows, there I was born and raised in the great city. I'm with the body I have always had. But who are

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you upon whose cheeks I see such tears distilled by grief and let me know what punishment it is that glitters so. And one of them replied, the yellow cloaks are of a lead so thick their heaviness makes us the balances beneath them creak. We both were jovial friars and Bolognese. My name is Catalano, Lauderingo was his and we were chosen by your city together for the post that's usually one man's to keep the peace and what we were is still to be observed around Gardingo. I then began, oh friars your misdeeds, but said no more because my eyes had caught once when crucified by three stakes on the ground. When he saw me that sinner writhed all over and he breathed hard into his beard with sighs. Serving that Fra Catalano said to me, that one impaled there whom you see counseled the Pharisees that it was prudent to let one man and not one nation suffer.

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Naked he has been stretched across the path as you can see and he must feel the weight of anyone who passes over him. Like torment in this ditch, afflicts both his father -in -law and others in that council, which for the Jews has seeded so much evil. Okay, so this is Caiaphas, who is the Pharisee, the high priest who condemned Jesus to death.

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And so for his punishment, he is crucified to the ground and everyone just walks on him. This is the area of the hypocrites and the hypocrites are punished by wearing cloaks of lead. So like their movement is like really, really slow. Okay, they're burdened by these cloaks of lead. So let's think about this. What is hypocrisy? And why would you be punished walking all of eternity with cloaks of lead that are very heavy, so heavy that it hurts to walk? What is hypocrisy? Why do people engage in it? Yes?

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It is basically saying one thing and doing another. So you're pretending to be better than you are. So you put off this mask.

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Right. And why do you do it?

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To show that you're better than others, that you are airy and kind of like, I'm better than everybody else. I'm more religious.

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Okay. So what you're saying is that hypocrites, their words have no meaning and their words can change at any time. And they are not responsive to, they're not responsible to their words, right? So why do they do it?

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Yes? I think that they're cheating. They just pretend to be higher moral stuff. Just try to, on the one hand, you get a benefit from that. And on the other, they will try to cheat others so that they will get more. And they don't need to be punished. And they just hide themselves from, yeah.

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Okay. Well, let's say you're a teacher, okay? And you're telling your students, okay, we need to work hard and read a lot of books and exercise. Okay? And then your students, like a year later, they don't do anything, but they're like, you know, like, we want to work hard and exercise and read a lot of books. Why do they do that? Hmm? To please me, right? And so why would they do that? Yeah. What's the motivation?

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Like to pretend that you're better than who you actually are. And then you're very empty on the interior. And then the ultimate goal is to like get benefits by kind of like pretending to be like a better person.

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Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then so you're basically you have to wear all those lies on yourself on your consciousness. Like you're like consciously because you know you're not actually doing what you're saying now that all these things that you didn't do but you say you did, they wear on you basically.

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Yeah. So like before you, there was nothing holding you down, right? You could say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want. You just choose to do it in order to just get by, right? Now you're being punished with this cloak of lead, okay? So does that make sense? Okay, good. All right, let's keep on going.

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Line 124. Then I saw Virgil stand amazed above that one who lay stretched out upon a cross so squalidly in his eternal exile. And he addressed the friar, in this way, if it does not displease you, if you may, tell us if there's some passage on the right that would allow the two of us to leave without our having to compel black angels to travel to the steep to get us out. He answered, closer than you hope, you'll find a rocky ridge that stretches from the great round wall and crosses all the savage valleys, except that here it's broken, not a bridge, but where it ruins slope along the bank and heap up at the bottom, you can climb. My leader stood a while with his sword, his head bent, then said, he who hooks sinners over there gave us a false account of this affair.

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So Virgil recognized he's been lied to, like, duh, right? Keep on going.

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At which the friar, in Bologna, I once heard about the devil's many vices. They said he was a liar and a father of lies. And then my guide moved on with giant strides, somewhat disturbed with anger in his eyes. At this I left those overburdened spirits while following the prince of his dear feet.

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So why would you trust the devil? What could lead someone to trust the devil? Pride, right? Does that make sense? Is there a Christian saying about this? No? Okay, all right, all right. Well, yeah. All right, let's keep on going.

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Council 24. In that part of the young year when the sun begins to warm its locks beneath Aquarius and nights grow shorter, equaling the days, when hoarfrost mimes the image of his white sister upon the ground, but not for long, because the pen he uses is not sharp, the farmer who is short of fodder rises and looks and sees the fields all white, at which he slaps his thigh, turns back into the house, and here and there complains, like some poor wretch who doesn't know what can be done and then goes out again and gathers up new hope on seeing that the world has changed its face in so few hours, and he takes his staff and hurries out his flock of sheep to pasture. So here we go. So did my master fill me with dismay when I saw how his brow was deeply troubled, yet then the plaster soothed the sore as quickly,

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for soon as we were on the broken bridge, my guide turned back to me with that sweet manner I first had seen along the mountain space, and he examined carefully the ruin that having picked the way we would ascend, he opened his arms and thrust me forward, and just as he who ponders as he labors who's always ready for the step ahead, so as he lifted me up toward the summit of one great crag, he'd see another spur saying, that is the one you will grip next, but try it first to see if it is firm. That has no path for those with cloaks of lead, for he and I, he light, I would support, could hardly make it up from spur to spur. And were it not that down from this enclosure the slope was shorter than the bank before, I cannot speak for him, but I should surely have been defeated. But since

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Malabolge runs right past me, into the mouth of its last well, the placement of each valley means it must have one bank high and have the other short, and so we reached at length, the jutting where the last stone of the ruined bridge breaks off. The breath within my lungs was so exhausted from climbing, I could not go on. In fact, as soon as I had reached that sore, I sat, stone, I sat. Now you must cast aside your laziness, my master said, for he who rests on down on or under covers, cannot come to fame. And he who spends his life without renown leaves such a vestige of himself on earth as smoke bequeaths to air or foam to water. Therefore, get up, defeat your breathlessness with spirit that can win all battles if the body's heaviness does not deter it. A longer ladder still is to be climbed. It's not enough to have left them behind.

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If you have understood, now profit from it.

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Okay, I'm sure that you might have had a teacher, okay? Some of you might have had a teacher who has inspired you to greatness. And what your teacher said to you is, the reason why we are memorizing tests for like eight hours a day is to aspire to greatness, right? We suffer for 12 years, we lose our soul, we lose our individuality, but at the end of it, we will obtain immortality because we'll get into like Tsinghua or Harvard or Yale and then we'll be great, okay? What do you think of a teacher like that? There's quite a few teachers like that in China, but what's your impression of a teacher like that? I mean, he's not wrong, right? He or she is not wrong. And there are lots of students who are able to get into Tsinghua or Beidao or Yale or Harvard because of a teacher like that. But how do you feel about a teacher like that?

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- Transcript segment: [https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0169](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0169)
- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5480s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5480s)

Have you had a teacher like that? And what's your impression? Yes?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5484s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5484s)

Yeah, because as a teacher, you have to do a job well, and there's no teacher who said to students, come on, don't study, it's useless, right? Teacher always said you have to study better, harder, so that you would get more benefit, you know? The sweet always come after the bitterness, right? Yes?

### 1:31:41 seg-0171

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- Transcript segment: [https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0171](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0171)
- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5501s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5501s)

I literally just said that to my students last week, and I say to them all the time, honey, you'll get like six years of hell or 60 years of hell. And they were like, just six years. I'm like, okay, then work hard for the next six years in your middle school so you can get to a good, you know, undergraduate school, college, so that you can have more happiness, I guess, in the future.

### 1:32:04 seg-0172

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- Transcript segment: [https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0172](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0172)
- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5524s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5524s)

And I'm sure a lot of your students have succeeded, right? They've gone to like really top universities.

### 1:32:07 seg-0173

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- Transcript segment: [https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0173](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0173)
- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5527s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5527s)

Yeah, they do better, yeah.

### 1:32:09 seg-0174

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- Transcript segment: [https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0174](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0174)
- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5529s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5529s)

Right, right.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5531s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5531s)

Achieved their full potential, I suppose.

### 1:32:13 seg-0176

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5533s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5533s)

Right, but let's hear some other perspectives, right? You're a teacher, right? And you've said that, yes?

### 1:32:20 seg-0177

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- Transcript segment: [https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0177](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0177)
- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5540s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5540s)

So back then I thought it was like completely normal and it is what I should be taught because of meritocracy. But right now I feel like we are just kind of in like an endless trap because after high school, you'll be told that, okay, you'll just have to work hard for four years and then you'll get into like a good grad school or like you'll get a good job. I feel like it's just kind of like an endless circle. And I feel like it's more of like the teachers are incapable of, you know, of motivating their students to like have like an inner drive to study hard so that they're teaching these sorts of ideas onto their students.

### 1:32:56 seg-0178

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5576s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5576s)

Did you agree with that?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5580s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5580s)

No, because I actually do believe in this narrative of if you work hard, you go to a good school, you actually have a better chance of getting into like top banking, you know, or whatever jobs that you want because they do filter your first degree, right? And so I actually do believe in this narrative. I think it's very puritan, very biblical. So Paul is always saying, let's, you know, strive for the goal that you have, you know, so you live your good life, so you get your reward in heaven. It's kind of the same narrative.

### 1:33:32 seg-0180

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5612s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5612s)

Okay, right.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5615s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5615s)

I use, if a teacher tells me that, I know how much effort I need to put for their class because I mean this in the sense that if a teacher is really good at teaching, and really has a love for their subject, in classes, what they say is, oh my God, guys, chemistry is so amazing. It's so interesting. And it really piques my passion. So for that class, I put in the extra effort and I understand that that teacher understands my passion for the subject. But if a teacher tells me, you just need to do this to get to a good college, I know like that class, I'm not going to really learn anything. So I'm just going to put the amount of effort that's needed for me to get an A and just... But I guess for me, my understanding of education is not to get that job. It's to better yourself. And also learning is fun.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5669s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5669s)

But if the teachers don't understand and take that perspective, I can't really convince them that. So it just... Okay, we understand.

### 1:34:40 seg-0183

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5680s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5680s)

Yes? Yeah, I think it's just not really about the aspect of hard work. I think, yes, obviously you need to do work hard, but it's more about the motivation behind it. And it's easier if you're motivated, obviously, to learn something that you're interested in. So if the teacher tells you, like she said, you know, you need to do this, or like I will teach this in a way that it makes it harder for you because you won't like it, or I'm going to teach this in a way that you will like it, then obviously it's easier to study. Okay, all right. So it's more about the motivation.

### 1:35:13 seg-0184

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5713s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5713s)

Okay, yes. I think logically it makes sense. This way of teaching, but it just assumes that this is the only important thing in life. Because you could get, say, a teacher who says, well, don't worry too much, but focus on your soul, your spirit, and be happy with your life. And then you get two different adults. You get one who's working in banking, earning a lot of money, but antidepressants, not happy with their life. And then you get one who didn't work that hard, didn't make it to that college, but maybe they still had a family and they're happy.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5745s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5745s)

Yes, okay. Thank you. Yes.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5748s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5748s)

I see this narrative as a way of blinding yourself for better outcomes. Same as like a horse can have the thing on the side just to move faster. So you don't really see why you're doing it, but it's just a way to have better outcomes. So you're like, okay, let me blind myself for the next like three years. And I know that when I open my eyes, it's going to be just better.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5768s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5768s)

Okay, thank you. Yes. It is a white lie that has been perpetuated from generation to generation. It is, I think, it is the purpose of the white lie that is more important than the content and the truthfulness. It is sometimes comparable to a beautiful wrapping of a gift. You know, it might be just a wrapping, but when you unpack it, you still want to, you know, look at the beautiful wrapping and appreciate it. But it really depends on the audience. A bad audience might, you know, be obsessed with it and might have some, you know, very tragic result. Okay, good. Yes.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5820s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5820s)

I think the problem with education, especially public school education in China, is that the students don't know why they're learning. They think the reason why they are learning is because they need to do it to get to a good high school and to get to a good college, to get to a good job. But that's like the most boring reason for why you learn. Like if teachers taught students why you learn is because it's fun and it's interesting and it's amazing and it's actually very, it's like if you actually teach people why learning is fun and interesting, then therefore students realize that like in life, they don't need to work towards a goal. They can just, you know, strive towards enjoying the journey. Okay.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5862s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5862s)

Yeah. It's a great discussion, but you have the last word. Okay. Then we'll continue. Yes. Okay. Yes.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5868s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5868s)

Sorry, I have to put out the counter argument that if we prime education to be something fun of self -discovery, of passion and love, you'll realize that learning is anti -human, just like exercising. Like in a way it is, you know, it is good for you, but, you know, to eat salad every day and to exercise, be an athlete, you know, be a great achiever will take pain, will take a bit of, you know, suffering. So when everything is fun driven and passion driven, what if you have passion for chemistry, but not for physics? Or like the teacher try to invoke passion in you, but it's hard because you, you are just a chemistry person, not a physics or not a math or Chinese, you know, language arts person. Then you will lose like, oh, then, you know, physics or chemistry is my, you know, passion. And that's the only thing I'm going to learn well, then the rest of it, it's like, whatever.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5914s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5914s)

Then I think it's a better to have a narrative, like, yeah, the other subjects are not as fun, but they are equally as important for your future to, you know.

### 1:38:42 seg-0192

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5922s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5922s)

Yeah. So just for some context, for those who are watching on the live stream, who do not know the Chinese system, the Chinese system, it, at the end of high school, everyone takes a comprehensive examination that tests six subjects. So you can have a great love of math, but if you don't do well in English, you're really, really screwed. Okay. It's comprehensive. So it's not just about passion. It's about like discipline. You have to like do well on all six subjects. Okay. So let's continue. Okay. Now, what Virgil says to Dante is, cast aside your laziness, because what we're trying to achieve is eternal fame. If you want to be the greatest poet in the world, you have to work a lot harder. What could Virgil say instead to motivate Dante? And it'd be a lot more effective by the way. Exactly right. What is Dante doing right now? Right? He's trying to get to Beatrice.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5980s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5980s)

Beatrice came to Virgil and says like, I want to see Dante again, bring him to me. Right? That's what Virgil's mission is. To take Dante to Beatrice. Right? So what Virgil should be saying to Dante is, Beatrice is waiting for us. Let's get there as soon as possible. And that's going to motivate, uh, Beatrice, Dante a lot more than like, Hey, everlasting fame, man. That's what we want. Okay. So it shows you psychology, the Virgil psychology. Okay. And that, and that's why this is a great work of literature because Virgil is a real person, right? He's just, he's not just a plot device. He has his own motivations. He has his own psychology. He has his own worldview. All right. All right. Uh, let, let, let's keep on going.

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Line 58. Then I arose and showed myself far better equipped with breath than I had been before. Go on for I'm strong and confident. We took our upward way upon the ridge with cracks, more jagged, narrow, difficult, and much more steep than we had crossed before. I spoke as we went on, not to seem weak at this, a voice came from the ditch beyond a voice that was not suited to form words. I know not what he said, although I was already at the summit of the bridge that crosses there. And yet he seemed to move. I bent that I had bent downward, but my living eyes cannot see the bottom through that dark at which I said, Oh master, can we reach the other belt? Let us descend the wall for as I hear and cannot understand. So I see down, but can distinguish nothing. The only answer that I give to you is doing it.

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He said, just request is to be met in silence by the, by the act. We then climbed down the bridge just at the end where it runs right into the eighth embankment. And now the moat was plain enough to me. And there within, I saw a dreadful swarm of serpents, so extravagant and form remembering them. So it drains my blood from me. Let Libya boast no more about her sands, or if she breathes, Kelly, Jack, Cooley, Shen, Chris with emphasis, Bina, Paray. She never showed with all of Ethiopia or all the land that borders the Red Sea. So many such malignant pestilences among this cool and depressing swarm ran people who were naked, terrified with no hope of a whole or heliotrope. Their hands were tied behind by serpent. These had thrust their head and tail right through the loins and then were not on the other side. And there a serpent sprang

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with force at one who stood upon our shore, transfixing him just where the neck and shoulders from a knot. No O or I has ever been transcribed so quickly as that soul caught fire and burned, and as he fell, completely turned to ashes. And when he lay undone upon the ground, the dust of him collected by itself and instantly returned to what it was. Just so it is asserted by great sages that when it reaches its 500th year, the Phoenix dies and then is born again. Lifelong, it never feeds on grass or grain, only on drops of incense and amamum. Its final winding sheets are nard and myrrh. And just as he who falls and knows not how, by demon's force that drags him to the ground, or by some other hindrance that binds man, who, when he rises, stares about him, all bewildered by the heavy anguish he has suffered, sighing as he looks around, so did the sinner stare when he arose.

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Oh, how severe it is, the power of God, that, as its vengeance showers down such blows. My guide then asked that sinner who he was. To this he answered, not long since I reigned from Tuscany into this savage maw. Mew that I was the beast, your life pleased me and not the man. I'm vani foo chief, beast, and the den that suited me, fistoya. And I to Virgil, tell him not to slip away and ask what sin has thrust him here. I knew him as a man of blood and anger. The sinner heard, and did not try to feign, but turned his mind and face intent toward me, and coloring with miserable shame, he said, I suffer more because you've caught me in this, the misery you see, than I suffered when taken from the other life. I can't refuse to answer what you ask. I'm

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set down so far because I robbed the sacristy of its fair ornament, and someone else was falsely blamed for that. But lest the sight give you doubt, lest you be too much delight if you can ever leave these lands of darkness, open your ears to my announcement. Here, fistoya first will strip herself of black, then Florence will renew her men and manners. From mal di margara, Mars will draw a vapor which turbid clouds will try to wrap. The clash between them will be fierce, impetuous, a tempest fought upon Campo Piceno until that vapor, vigorous, vigorous, shall crack the mist and every wight be struck by it. And I have told you this to make you grieve.

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Okay. All right. So we are pretty far down in Inferno. And here in the circle of fraud, we now meet thieves. Okay. Can I ask you a question? I mean like we've been through Inferno. We were in a circle of violence. We met people like Alexander the Great. And yeah, you can come, you can make the argument that Alexander the Great is a terrible, terrible person because he commits genocide against a lot of people. Okay. And he started wars for no real reason except for his own glory. Darius, the King of Persia offered him many, many bribes in order to not stop, to not stop fighting. And his Ed man told him like, let's just take the bribes. Okay. Yet at the same time, this thief, um, he's a lot lower in Inferno than a great conqueror like Alexander the Great who killed a lot of people. Why is thievery so bad? Why?

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Why is thievery so evil as it warrants such a low status in, in hell? Right. And also like if someone's stealing, it's often, because maybe they need the money, right? Maybe if my child is hungry, I'm going to go steal some, something from other people, right? Have you guys seen the movie, the bicycle thief? A very good Italian movie, right? And if you haven't, it's a really good movie, but it's just this guy who's a very normal guy. This is like post -war Italy, absolutely no money. And he has to feed his kid. So he goes, steals a bicycle. And then he's, you know, becomes a villain. And society around him. So why is thievery such a sin? Yes.

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I think in like the biblical terms, the, the 10 sins, the greatest 10 sins you can commit, was like the first few was against God, like using God's name in vain and have other gods and all that. And then the rest, it was like, do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not sin, like steal, do not covet. But all of these, the rest of the five sins were all summarized into coveting, which is taking others things, like taking other's wife is adultery. You know, lying to others is taking the truth away. And then there were other things. So it was all summarized into thief.

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So it was not a big deal, right? Because like the one, the one, the one is like, do not, you know, worship other idols. Do not.

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The first few was about against God.

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And those are really bad, right? But like adultery and like,

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it was like, oh yeah. But the principle behind adultery and all the other things were all summarized into.

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Right. So, so, so in the, the 10 commandments, there's this hierarchy, right? And so like, so like stealing is actually pretty low. Whereas here in inferno, it's actually pretty serious, right? So that, that's a paradox. Yes. Did you raise your hand? Okay. All right. Right. Did you understand? There's a paradox here. Why is killing a lot of people not as bad as stealing from one person, right? And, and the crime, the sin was this guy, he steals from a church and then someone else was blamed for it. He got away. And then he burned in hell, right? So he stole someone else was blamed. And now he's burning in hell. And the punishment is like, they all get bitten by snakes and then they die. And then if they do resurrect and he had been bitten by more stakes, right? So this is a paradox for us. Yes.

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One reason, you know, in criminology or in law and economics, uh, you know, the punishment is sometimes, uh, married, uh, apartment, uh, is calculated partially by the, um, the, the ability of the society to find the crime. If a crime is very hard to find, to be observed, then the department must be multiplied by the crime. The crime is not the factor of this hiddenness. So slavery, uh, and all this, uh, fraud is more, uh, uh, damning or more, more, uh, difficult, more difficult to be, to be fined by open killing, killing or other, uh, crime against humanity with, although it's, it's a high, high near quiet, it is, uh, easy to be, to be discerned by the judge. If there is a judge. Okay.

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Okay. Okay. That makes sense. But God knows everything, right? So you can't, you can never hide your crime from God. Uh, yes. Yes.

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I wonder if, uh, I haven't done any, any research on, on natural law and what Aristotle or Aristotle or, or, uh, Augustine would say about it, but animals, animals, kill animals, rape each other. Animals don't, don't put up with animals stealing from one another. They will like, they, they will find a sense of harmony. So I wonder if it goes not against discernment, just God laws, but it goes against natural laws as well.

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That's a very good point. Okay. Like animals take stealing very, very seriously. They're very, they're very protective of their own property. Yes. Okay. Uh, yes.

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Because thievery affects, uh, the person who's been thieved capacity to love and trust, uh, in the future. Like maybe for example, say you're a very generous person. Usually you leave, you used to leave your house open and then you get robbed one time. Then you're going to be very suspicious of all your neighbors. Uh, you're going to lock all your doors. And if you extrapolate this on society, why it kills kind of kill society.

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Yes. Does that make sense to you? Okay. The problem with thievery is not the stealing. The fact is that it's so no one knows who did it. So then you, you have to like suspect everyone, right? The problem is not that he stole and it's not even like what he stole. The problem is like he got away with it. That's why thieves are worse than, than everyone else because they often get away with it. It's so secretive. It's so shadowy. Like it, no one knows who did it. Right. Yes. Is it, didn't you just say that God knows everything?

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Right. And God will punish you for it. But I'm saying like, what, what is the effect on society? Uh, okay. Yeah. But it's not a sin against God or it's not, it's not a direct sin against God. It's a sin against society.

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Right. But for Dante, um, society is what enables us to truly love God. Okay. So our society, we, we, we couldn't actually function. Okay. Does that make sense? So what matters is, you know, to live a life of faith, hope, and love. And you're going to do that in society, right? You can't do that by yourself. You can't. So, so the society, the social fabric is what's important. It must hold together. So, and that's the logic here. Does that make sense? Okay. All right. Uh, yes.

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Yeah. And I also feel like while the thieves are like deceiving the others through like stealing, they're also kind of like deceiving themselves. For example, like you mentioned earlier, what if they are poor and, and they're uncapable of like, um, for example, feeding your kid, I feel like with the act of stealing, they're also like kind of like, um, finding like, uh, forgiving themselves for not reaching their full potential because there are definitely other ways for them to like get through the problem.

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Okay. Yeah. So again, the punishment is these guys, these thieves are being bitten by snakes, right? Which kills them. Well, that's a metaphor for what they do in society, right? These, there are snakes. No one, no one can see them. Um, they're very slippery and they steal from other people. But what they don't recognize is that it's a sting. It's something that, um, imprints itself on people and people can never forget it. And it makes them, as you point out, just constantly thinking about who stole this, right? And then what they're going to do is they're often going to blame someone else and it's going to be the wrong person, right? So that's, and, and the metaphor is the snake bite, right? A venomous treacherous snake. Okay. Yes.

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Yeah. I agree with you, Professor, because, uh, in, in, uh, Genesis, right? Uh, the Eva, just Adam, just steal the fruit, the wisdom fruit, right? From the, from the tray. So I think that is why the God feel really angry about them. Try to condemn them. That's a good point, right?

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The snake appears in the serpent appears in, um, Genesis. This cannot be a coincidence, right? It's clearly referring to first society, one of trust between God and Adam and Eve and the snake convinced them to, uh, disobey God and break that trust, that bond between God. Okay. Clearly there's a reference to Genesis here. Okay. Great. Okay. Let's, uh, yes.

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Um, I noticed like in line one Oh eight, the resurrection of the sinners is compared to the Phoenix, but I thought the Phoenix is like a quite positive metaphor. So I wonder why sinners are compared to Phoenix.

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Um, so in poetry, um, we use a lot of metaphors and similes. It's not really about what's positive, what's negative. It's really about showing you visually what's going on. Right? So, so the idea is the visual depiction of rising from the ashes, right? You're killed, but then you rise again. And then the snake bites you again. And it's kind of silly because like you already know, like you've been through this a million times, but the snake is always able to sneak up on you and kill you. Okay. So, so it's a metaphor. Um, and it's, and it doesn't, it doesn't really care of it. A judgment. All right. Uh, let's keep on reading.

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Inferno. Conto 25. When he had finished with his words, the thief raised high, his fist was both fixed, cocked and cried. Take that. Oh God, I square them off for you. From that time on, those serpents were my friends for one of them coiled. Then around his neck, as if to say, I'll have you speak no more. Another wound about, about his arms and bound him again and wrapped itself in front so firmly. He could not even make them budge.

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Why does he hate God so much? He curses God, right? And he's, I see the only person we seen in front of that curse is God, right? Why? Yes.

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So we said before that the effects of theory is so big on society, but it is kind of one of those crimes that if you're the one doing the thievery, maybe to you, it doesn't seem that bad. So you, you might feel that you're being unjustly punished, right?

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Okay. Um, why don't you think it's a bad thing or it's not that you think,

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7009s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7009s)

don't think it's a bad thing, but how you, when you do it, you probably don't realize how bad it is. Like we've had the examples before about like the Robin hood kind of analogy, you know, you just take the bike or something like that. So you don't think it's that bad, but then you realize in the inferno, you're in such a bad place, right?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7032s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7032s)

So let's see all this. Okay. He steals a lot of things from the church and someone else's blame, right? When someone else is blamed, how does he feel? How, how would he feel?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7048s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7048s)

Guilty. You'd feel at least that for the other person.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7053s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7053s)

He's pretty ecstatic, man. Okay. Right. Because not only has he gotten away with it, but now he's completely innocent. Do you understand? So he's like the perfect crime and who screwed it up for him? God screwed up for him. Okay. So now he's pissed about this. He's like, Oh my God, I had all planned out. It's a perfect crime. Um, and I thought that I, I get away with it. And then God had to intervene. Okay. So he's really angry about this. Okay. Does that make sense? All right. So we'll continue after the break. Um, but an announcement, um, is that on Thursday we start class earlier. We start class at nine o 'clock. Okay. So try to come at about eight 50. And then we'll get back to you. And the reason why is we have a special guest joining us. Uh, professor David Bromwich, who's starting professor of English at Yale. He's joining us live from new Haven.

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It's a rare treat for, for us. It will be live stream to, to everyone. Um, and what he's going to do is he's going to talk about Shakespeare. And then we're gonna, we're gonna talk about Dante. We're going to compare and contrast Shakespeare with Dante. Okay. So, um, he's obviously one of world's foremost experts on Shakespeare. And we are obviously one, obviously experts on Dante already. So it will be a very lively discussion. Okay. So something, something that'll be really fun. Uh, so please come about eight 50. We'll start at nine o 'clock properly and we'll go for about an hour. Okay. So, um, yep. Yep.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7146s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7146s)

So then are we doing like a three hour morning? Yeah.

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Three hour morning. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right guys. Enjoy your lunch. We'll come back. Okay. Okay. So, an issue that we had this morning, which is why is thievery much worse, a sin than genocide. Okay. So an example is you have accident, the great who for his own vanity and glory, he decided to go conquer the Persian empire in the process. He kills millions of people. Okay. At least a million, possibly 10 million. Um, so a million dies and then you have a thief who, who, who steals a holy relic and then someone else is blamed. Okay. And as we discussed, what this does is it destroys trust and cohesion in the community. Okay. But still, even if this was a large community, it would only be about a thousand people. Okay. It would only be about a thousand people. So we have this strange paradox where for Dante, uh, the thief, by impacting a thousand people, it's a worse sin than accident, the great killing a million people.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7227s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7227s)

Okay. And how do we reconcile this paradox? And that's why it's important to read paradise first, because without reading paradise, it is impossible to reconcile this paradox. There's certain aspects here that, um, explain, uh, the difference. First is the idea of immortality of the soul. And that's something that Beatrice will tell Dante that the soul is immortal. It's eternal. It can never die off. If your body dies off, your soul will still, um, be around. Then, uh, what we also learn is that the soul aspires to return to God. Okay. The soul, it's greatest desire. It's greatest happiness is to be with God. All right. The soul returns to God. We also learn that what allows us to return to God is the idea of faith, hope, and trust. And love. Okay. All right. So once you understand these three principles, then it's, then we can understand how this works.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7291s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7291s)

The million people die. It's not a big deal. They lose their bodies to come back later on, but there's a thousand people who, uh, feel betrayed, who are suspicious of each other. It's not impossible for them to live a life of faith, hope, and love. And in fact, it will probably, um, make them more likely to sin. Okay. So now they're moving away from God. Okay. So, um, it's not the absolute numbers that matter. It's how people choose to live the lives that matter. And the sin, the worst possible sin is treachery in a way that, uh, forces other people to commit treachery as well. All right. To force you away from God. Does this make sense guys? Okay. All right. Okay. Let's, let's, let's continue.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7353s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7353s)

Canto 25, um, verse, let's see, 10. Pistoia, ah, Pistoia, must you last? Why not decree yourself incineration since you surpass your seed and wickedness? Throughout the shadowed circles of deep hell, I saw no soul against God so rebel, not even he who fell from Theban walls. He fled and could not say another word. And then I saw a sensual, full of anger shouting, where is he? Where's that bitter one? I do not think Maremma has the number of snakes that centaur carried on his haunch until the part that takes our human form upon his shoulders and behind his nape. There lay a dragon with its wings outstretched. It sets ablaze all those, its intercepts. My master said that centaur there is Cacus who often made a lake of blood within a grotto underneath Mount Aventine. He does not ride the same road as his brothers because he stole and most deceitfully from the great herd nearby.

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His crooked deeds, his crooked deeds ended beneath the club of Hercules who may have given him a hundred blows, but he was not alive to feel the tenth. While he was talking, so Cacus ran by and just beneath our ledge, three souls arrived, but neither I nor my guide noticed them until they had cried out. And who are you? At this, the words we shared were interrupted, and we attended only to those spirits. I did not recognize them, but it happened, as chance will usually bring about, that one of them called out the other's name, exclaiming, where was Chianpha left behind? At this, so that my guide might be alert, I raised my finger up from chin to nose. If, reader, you're slow now to believe what I shall tell, that is no cause for wonder, for I, who saw it, can accept it. As I kept my eyes fixed upon those sinners, a serpent with six feet springs out against one of the three and clutches him completely.

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It gripped his belly with his middle feet and with its forefeet grappled his two arms, and then it sank its teeth in both his cheeks. It stretched its rear feet out along his thighs and ran its tail along between the two, then straightened it again behind his loins. No ivy ever gripped a tree so fast as when that harp, a horrifying monster, clasped and intertwined the other's limbs with its. Then, just as their substance were warm wax, they stuck together, and they mixed their colors, so neither seemed what had been seen before, yet been before. Just as, when paper's kindled, where it still has not caught flame in full, its color's dark though not yet black while white is dying off. The other two souls stared, and each one cried, Ah, me and yellow, how you change, just see, you're already neither two nor one.

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Then two heads were already joined in one, when in one face where two had been dissolved, two intermingled shapes appeared to us. Two arms came into being from four lengths, the thighs and legs, the belly and the chest became such limbs as never had been seen, and every former shape was canceled there, that perverse image seemed to share in both, and none in so, and slowly it moved on. Just as the lizard, when it darts from hedge to hedge, beneath the dog's days, giant lash, seems, if it crossed one's path, a lightning flash. So seemed a blazing little serpent, moving against the bellies of the other two, as black and livid as a peppercorn. Attacking one of therm, it pierced right through the part where we first take our nourishment, and then it fell before him at full length. The one it had transfixed, stared, but said nothing. In fact, he only stood his ground and yawned, as one whom sleep or fever has undone.

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The serpent stared at him, he at the serpent, one through his wound, the other through his mouth, where smoking violently their smoke met. Let Lucan now be silent, where he sings of sad Sabilus and Assiduous, and wait to hear what flies off from my bow. Let Ovid now be silent, where he tells of Cadmus Arethusa, if his verse had made of one a serpent, one a fountain. I do not envy him, he never did transmute two natures face to face, so that both forms were ready to exchange their matter. These were the ways they answered to each other. The serpent split its tail into a fork, the wounded sinner drew his steps together, the legs and then the thighs, along with them so fastened to each other that the juncture soon left no sign that was discernible. Meanwhile, the cleft

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tail took upon itself the fork, the other gradually lost, its skin grew soft, the other skin grew hard. I saw the arms that drew in at its armpits, and also saw the monster's two short feet grow long for just as much as those were shortened. The serpent's hind feet, twisted up together, became the member that man hides, just as the wretch put out two hind pods from his member. And while the smoke veils each with a new color and now breeds hair upon the skin of one, just as it strips the hair from off the other. The one rose up, the other fell, and they never turned aside their impious eye -lamps beneath which each of them transformed his snout. He who stood up drew his back toward the temples, and from the excess matter growing there came years upon the cheeks that had been bare. Whatever had not been pulled back but kept superfluous then made his face a nose and thickened out his lips appropriately.

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He who was lying down thrust out his snout, and even as the snail hauls in its horns he drew his ears straight back into his head. His tongue, which had before been whole and fit for speech, now cleaves. The other's tongue, which had been forked, now closes up, and the smoke stops. The soul that had become an animal, now hissing, hurried off along the valley. The other one behind him speaks and spits. And then he turned aside his new -made shoulders and told the third soul, I'd have Boasso run on all fours down this road as I have done. And so I saw the seventh ballast change and re -change. May the strangeness plead for me if there has been some confusion in my pen. And though my eyes were somewhat blurred, my mind bewildered, those three sinners did not flee so secretly that I could not perceive Puccio Giancato clearly.

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He who was the only soul who had not been changed among the three companions we had met at first, the other one made you, Gavile, grieve.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7777s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7777s)

Okay, so these sinners are here because they committed identity theft, they're imposters, they pretend to be someone else, okay? It's like credit card fraud. And again, this goes back to the idea that the lower we go, the more these people are destroying their trust of society and society's capacity to function cohesively, okay? That's why they're being punished like this. And their punishment is fitting because they're constantly being changed, right? Snakes take over their bodies and then dissipates their soul, then they're resurrected and then snakes take over their souls again, okay? So, but what is unusual about this canto is Dante spends a lot of time in the description, right? Dante is usually very economical. He spends maybe a tercet and then he moves on. Here we have an entire canto talking about the metamorphosis. Why would he do that? Again, I don't actually know the answer. I'm just pointing this out, right?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7847s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7847s)

This is unusual for Dante. He's usually very succinct, very economical, very terse, and now he's spending a lot of time going in detail over the metamorphosis. Why would he do that? Any speculations? Again, I don't know the answer. I just want to speculate. Any possibilities?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7881s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7881s)

Maybe he wants to contrast this with Heaven, where the scheme is grandiose and extremely expansive and unlimited. Here he wants to go to the reverse, to look at things under a microscope and to give you a sense of depth or whatever. Give you a sense of restriction or the opposite of Heaven.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7915s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7915s)

Okay. That's a possibility. Okay. Great contrast. Yes. Any other possibilities? Yes.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7921s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7921s)

I think depicting these sinners metamorphosizing is a reflection of them getting less and less human because of the sin they've done.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7934s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7934s)

Yes. Right. Any other possibilities? Yes?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7942s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7942s)

Maybe he's just trying to prove that he can write about metamorphosis as good as Ovid can.

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Yeah, that's a very interesting idea, right? Because there are certain poets that Dante admires. Virgil is definitely among the top, but there's also Ovid and Lucan, okay? And he does mention Ovid and Lucan in this canto. So you're right. Maybe he is trying to prove that he can just be as good as Ovid. Yes.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7977s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7977s)

And also in the Bible, in the book of Revelations, which is the last book of the Bible, John wrote a lot of visions about what he saw about angels and the last day. So maybe he's kind of doing that same thing as well to show that I have divine intervention. I have this vision about what's in Hell, just like John had an idea of what's in Heaven.

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- Transcript segment: [https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0251](https://jianglens.com/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0251)
- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7996s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7996s)

Excellent. Okay, right. So we're approaching Lucifer, right? We're approaching the inner core of Lucifer. And maybe what he's trying to do is convey a sense of fear and dread, right? He's trying to evoke fear and dread in us because as we're reading this, we visualize what's happening to this human becoming a serpent. And if you think about it, it's very hard not to be afraid, right? This is almost like a horror movie now, right? This metamorphosis. I'm not sure if you've seen the movie The Fly, right? Where this guy turns into a fly. It's pretty disgusting. It's pretty scary. Don't watch it. Yeah. Okay? Yeah, but the idea of metamorphosis, right? That we can lose our human form and become something else. That's actually very, very scary. And it's hard to think of something even more scary than that idea. And maybe he's using that in order to evoke a sense of fear and dread as we approach the inner sanctums of Hell.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=8055s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=8055s)

Great. These are all great suggestions, okay? All right. Let's keep on going.

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Canto 26. Be joyous, Florence. You're great indeed. For overseeing land you beat your wings. Through every part of Hell your name extends. Among the thieves I found, five citizens of yours and such. That shame has taken me. With them you can ascend to no high honor. But if the dreams dreamt close to dawn are true, then little time will pass before you feel what Prado and the others crave for you. Were that already come, it would not be too soon. And let it come. Since it must be, as I grow older, it will be more heavy.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=8105s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=8105s)

Okay. All right. So here Dante is referencing the prophetic tradition, okay? He is spelling doom for Florence. He's like, Florence, you guys should be proud because you have more members of Florence in Hell than anyone else, okay? This is a great achievement and God's going to punish you. Okay. Keep on going.

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Verse 10. Were that already come, it would not be too soon. And let it come, since it must be. As I grow older, it will be more heavy. We left that deep, and by protruding stones that served as stairs for our descent before, my guide climbed up again and drew me forward. And as we took our solitary path among the ridges, jaggots, spurs, and rocks, our feet could not make way without our hands. It grieved me then and now grieves me again when I direct my mind to what I saw. And more than usual, I curb my talent that had not run where virtue does not guide, so that if my kind star or something better has given me that gift, I not abuse it. As many as the fireflies, the peasant, while resting on a hillside in the season when he who lights the world least hides its face, just when the fly gives

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way to the mosquito, sees glimmering below down the valley there where perhaps he gathers grapes and tills. So many were the flames that glittered in the eighth abyss. I made this out as soon as I had come to where one sees the bottom. Even as he who was avenged by bears saw, as it left Elijah's chariot, its horses rearing, rising right to heaven, when he could not keep track of it except by watching one lone flame in its ascent, just like a little cloud that climbs on high, so through the gullet of that ditch each flame must make its way. No flame displays its prey, though every flame has carried off a sinner. I stood upon the bridge, and leaned straight out to see, and if I had not gripped a rock I should have fallen off without a push. My guide, who noted how intent I was, told me, within those fires there are souls, each one is swathed in that which scorches him.

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My master, I replied, on hearing you I am more sure, but I had already thought that it was so, and I had meant to ask, who is within the flame that comes so twined above that which scorches him? He said it would seem to rise out of the pyre Etiocles shared with his brother. He answered me, within that flame Ulysses and Diomedes suffer, they who went as one to rage now share one punishment, and there together in their flame they grieve over the horse's fraud that caused a breach, the gait that let Rome's noble seed escape. There they regret the guile that makes the dead Didymia still lament Achilles, and there for the palladium they pay. If they can speak within those sparks, I said, I pray you and repray and master, may my prayer be worth a thousand pleas. Do not forbid my waiting

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here until the flame with horns approaches us, for you can see how out of my desire I bend toward it.

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Okay. So, Dante never read Homer. So he never read the Iliad and the Odyssey. And so his conception of, Ulysses, comes from other writers. And, Ulysses, he's, he's imprisoned in a flame. He's been burned in a flame with Diomedes. And the reason why they're being punished is the two came up with the idea of the Trojan horse. This treachery, this deception that allowed the Greeks to destroy the Trojans, forcing the Trojans to go to Rome, to found the Roman Empire. Okay. All right. Let's, let's keep on going.

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Line 70. Line 70. And he to me, what you have asked is worthy of every praise, therefore I favor it. I only ask you this, refrain from talking. Let me address them. I have understood what you desire of them. Since they were Greek, perhaps they'd be disdainful of your speech. And when my guide, a judge, the flame had reached a point where time and place were opportune, this was the form I heard his words assume. You two who move as one within the flame, if I deserved a few while I still lived, if I deserved a few much or a little when in the world I wrote my noble lines, do not move on. Let one of you retell where, having gone astray, he found his death. The greater horn within that ancient flame began to sway and tremble, murmuring just like a fire that struggles in the wind. And then he waved his flame

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to back and forth as if it were a tongue that tried to speak and flung toward us a voice that answered. When I sailed away, from Circe, who had beguiled me to stay more than a year there near Gaeta, before Aeneas gave that place a name, neither my fondness for my son nor pity for my old father, nor the love I owed Penelope, which would have gladdened her, was able to defeat in me the longing I had to gain experience of the world and of the vices and the worth of men. Therefore I set out on the open sea with but one ship in that small company of those who never had deserted me. I saw, as far as Spain, as far as Morocco, along both shores, I saw Sardinia and saw the other islands that sea bathes. And I and my companions were already old and slow. When we approached the narrows where Hercules

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set up his boundary stones that men might heed and never reach beyond, upon my right I had gone past Seville and on the left already past Ceuta. Brothers, I said, O you who have crossed a hundred thousand dangers, reach the west to this brief waking. Time that still is left unto your senses. You must not deny experience of that which lies beyond the sun and of the world that is unpeopled. Consider well the seat that gave you birth you were not made to live your lives as brutes but to be followers of worth and knowledge. I spurred my comrades with this brief address to meet the journey with such eagerness that I could hardly then have held them back. And having turned our stern toward the morning, we made wings out of our oars in a wild flight and always gained upon our left hand side. At night I now could see the other pole and all its stars.

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The star of ours had fallen and never rose above the plane of the ocean. Five times the light beneath the moon had been rekindled and as many time was spent since that hard passage phased our first attempt when there before us rose a mountain dark because of distance and it seemed to me the highest mountain I had ever seen. And we were glad but this soon turned to sorrow for out of that new land a whirlwind rose and hammered at our ship against her bow. Three times it turned her around with all the waters and at the fourth it lifted up the stern so that our prow plunged deep as pleased another until the sea again closed over us.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=8551s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=8551s)

Okay, so Virgil is asking how did you die? And Ulysses says said that I'm a wanderer I'm an explorer and I took my men and I rallied them and said that we are we are seeking knowledge we are seeking new lands and this excited everyone and we sailed as far as a mountain this mountain is going to be purgatory okay we will be in purgatory after we finish Inferno and then he sails off the face of this earth right he they just die when they fall off the earth so this is a paradox because weren't we told to live a life of faith hope and love and here Ulysses he is pursuing what he loves and he's exploring new lands and he's living a life of faith that there must be new knowledge out there for me to discover why would he be in hell

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what is what did he do wrong yes first he could be just like wanting to explore more without actually understanding what he's seeing and also about the mountain being purgatory it could be a way of saying if you avoid purgatory then you finish in like hell

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interesting exactly yes you try to run away from purgatory and you end up in hell yeah that's very interesting yes anyone else no no those are great ideas but anyone else yes um

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i'm guessing like if he's trying to know like all of the knowledge in the world he's trying to be like god kind of

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um okay not really because um he's just exploring right okay we will meet someone who wants to be god later on but like not not here okay yeah go ahead

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um earlier in in verse 94 neither my fondness for my son or pity for my old father nor the love i owed penelope was able to defeat in me the longing to gain experience in this world so um he uh ignored and betrayed and was treacherous towards people he should love or loves him

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he abandoned his family right right he has a father liartes he has a son tamakis he has a wife penelope and he says i love my wife but my desire to wonder override my love for my own wife and so why did he fail in his mission to explore how did he die he has no anchor right remember how in paradise it is donnie's love for beatrice that propelled him to heaven right well in your exploration what anchors you is your love of family you have to ask yourself why am i exploring like where am i going and um ulysses didn't know so he just fell off the face of the earth because there was nothing to hold him back okay and that's why the punishment is the flame because the flame of ambition right and he's just trapped in his in his ambition but there's no body to it there's nothing to hold that

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flame back the flame just wanders about okay so again what don is saying this is like really important is that we as individuals we are ultimately anchored by our family our community our society without these things we are really nothing okay does that make sense okay any any other questions or thoughts about this yes

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but doesn't dante celebrate individuality

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right but what he's saying is that individually individual has been anchored to other people you can only be an individual um with other people does that make sense yes

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why is this worse than murder and thievery um

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yeah that's your question why well thievery you are hurting those you're hurting you're hurting strangers right but what ulysses is doing you're hurting your own family right

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you're betraying your own kind and your own roots okay right does that make sense

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because because your son needs a role model okay your wife needs a husband and your father needs a son and you've just abandoned them in order to pursue your own ambition you're rootless your all you care about is your ambition okay does that make sense okay good great question okay um but do you understand the idea so do you understand the idea that the an individual can only be so um with other people you can't be an individual by yourself right and like it's hard for for you to appreciate that right but at this time in history what's the worst punishment for people exile right does that make sense not execution exile okay and that's why don is so pissed off right now because he's he's when he's writing this in exile from florence and he's like i can't be to be who i am about florence okay you're taking away my identity does that

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make sense all right

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=8911s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=8911s)

yes um could i i want to add to the conversation before to the metaphor form assist sure sure sure um the idea that well the he the thieves get turned into snakes and the question is well who else got turned into a snake and it was the original serpent right by god and the serpent was the one who basically robbed adam and eve of paradise right so basically that's like the allusion to that

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exactly you're exactly right yes um um and in fact milton will use this metamorphosis for paradise laws because in paradise laws uh the end fate for satan and the devils is they all turn into snakes okay so so it's almost like symmetry all right uh thank you all right let's keep on going guys okay and i want to commend everyone okay because now the discussion is much more interesting all right so uh this is great what's happening okay um 27 now

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27 the flame already was erect and silent it had no more to say now it had left us with the permission of the gentle poet when just behind it came another flame that drew our eyes to watch its tip because of the perplexing sound that it sent forth even as the sicilian bull that first had bellowed with the cry and this was just of him who shaped it with its with his instruments would always bellow with its victim's voice so that although that bull was only brass it seemed as if it was a snake and as if it were pierced through by pain and so were the helpless words that from the first had found no path or exit from the flame transformed into the language of the fire

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okay right so um it may seem innocuous right oh you're you're chopping a flame who cares okay so what dante is doing is he's reminding you how painful it is by reminding you of the sicilian bull okay so sicilian bull was this hollow brass uh sculpture and then you were put in the fire inside of it and you were burned inside of it okay and then you felt so much pain that you cried and then people outside would hear basically a bull moaning all right so you're being burned alive constantly so it's pretty painful uh keep on going

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line 16 but after they had found their way up toward the tip and given it that movement which the tongue had given them along their passage we heard oh you to him i turn my voice who only now were talking lombard saying now you may leave i'll not provoke more speech though i have come perhaps a little late may it not trouble you to stop and speak with me see how i stay and i'm burning if you have fallen into this blind world but recently out of the sweet italian country from which i carry all my guilt do tell me if the ramonoles have peace or war i was from there the hills between urbino and the ridge where tiber springs i still was bent attentive over him when my guide nudged me lightly at the side and said you speak he is italian and i who had my answer said already without delay began

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to speak to him oh soul that is concealed below in flame romagna is not now and never was quite free of war inside its tyrant's hearts but when i left her none had broken out ravenna stands as it has stood for years the eagle of polenta shelters it and also covers chervia with his wings the city that already stood long trial and made a bloodshed the bloody heap out of the french now finds itself again beneath green paws both masters of rukio old and new who dealt so badly with montaigne sees use their teeth to bore where they have always gnawed the cities on lamona and saturnal alert are led by the young lion of the white lair from summer unto winter he shifts factions that city with its side bathed by the savio just as it lies between the plain and mountain lives somewhere between tourney and far and now i pray you tell

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me who you are do not be harder than i've been with you that in the world your name may still endure after the flame in customary fashion had roared a while it moved its pointed tip this side and that and that set free this breath if i thought my reply were meant for one whoever could return into the world this flame would stir no more and yet since none if what i hear is true ever return to life from this abyss then without fear facing infinity i answer you i was a man of arms then wore the cord belief that so girt i made amends and surely what i thought would have been true had not the highest priest may he be damned made me fall back into my former sins and how and why i'd have you hear from me while i still had the form of bones and flesh my mother gave to

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me my deeds were not those of the lion but those of the fox the wiles and secret ways i knew them all and so employed their arts that my renown had reached the very boundaries of earth but when i saw myself come to that part of life when it is fitting for all men to lower sails and gather in their ropes what once had been my joy was now dejection repenting and confessing i became a friar and poor me it would have helped the prince of the new pharisees who then was waging war so near the lateran and not against the jews or saracens for every enemy of his was christian and none of them had gone to conquer acre or been a traitor in the sultan's lands took no care for the highest office or the holy orders that were his or for my cord which used to make its wearers lean but just

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as constantine on mount soracti to cure his leprosy sought out sylvester so this one sought me out as his instructor to ease the fever of his arrogance he asked me to give counsel i was silent his words had seemed to me delirious and then he said your heart must not mistrust i now absolve you in advance teach me to batter palestrino to the ground you surely know that i possess the power to lock and unlock heaven for the keys my predecessor did not prize are two then his grave arguments compelled me so my silence seemed a worse offense than speech and i said since you cleanse me of the sin that i must now fall into father since you cleanse me of the sin that i must now fall into father no long promises and very brief fulfillments will bring a victory to your high throne then francis came as soon as i was dead

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for me but one of the black cherubim told him don't bear him off do not cheat me he must come down among my menials the counsel that he gave was fraudulent since then i've kept close track to snatch his scalp one can't absolve a man who's not repented and no one can repent and will repent the law of contradiction won't allow it oh miserable me for now i started when he took hold of me and said perhaps you did not think that i was a logician he carried me to minos and that monster twisted his tail eight times around his hide and then when he had bit it in great anger announced this one is for the thieving fire for which and where you see i now am lost and in this garb i move in bitterness and with this his words were at an end the flame departed sorrowing and writhing and tossing its

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sharp horn we moved beyond i went together with my guide along the ridge until the other arch that bridges the ditch where payment is imposed on those who since they brought such discord bear such loads

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okay so uh just to summarize the sinner he gave fraudulent counsel okay so he is a military strategist and the pope boniface wanted to take a city a certain city and the pope asked him for what clever strategy can i use to take this city and the uh sinner was like i'm afraid of god i'm not going to tell you and boniface is like i speak for god i promise you that if you help me i will guarantee you into heaven that is my power as pope so he says fine then here's my advice um grant amnesty to the people and when they open the doors we'll just kill everyone or or we'll capture the leaders okay and that strategy does work and um when he died he thought that he was going to heaven and saint francis came down from heaven to take him to heaven as was promised by the pope but then

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um one of the fallen angels says you can't go because um you gave father and counsel and so your actions determine your place in hell this is a very strange story for a variety of reasons let's start naming the reasons why this is a strange story or it doesn't really make any sense saint francis came down from heaven and then he was denied okay why is this a paradoxical story this is like really problematic story actually well the first paradox is um saint francis agrees with the pope boniface right that's kind of strange boniface said that if you help me i guarantee you uh a place in heaven and boniface uh this isn't simony uh but it's pretty corrupt right it's pretty evil and saint francis up in heaven says sure sure like that's a deal i'll come and get get the man and then the black servant had to intervene this is like really

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problematic okay that's the first paradox

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yes

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what's a black sherbin

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black sherbin a sherbin is an angel right so a black sherbin would be a fallen angel yes so remember when we were in paradise there were many different orders of angels right so a sherbin is one of the orders this is a really hard paradox right saint francis who is founder of the franciscan order those who are devoted to uh poverty the one one of the least corruptible individuals in history he's helping a very corrupt pope do evil in the world what's going on here i mean i don't know the i actually don't know the answer i'm just throwing this out there okay it's confusing me as well

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something about even if saint francis came hear me hello something about even if saint francis came down and and um agrees with boniface uh that he he will try to bring this man to heaven something about the law of contradiction doesn't allow it something about the nature of his repentance

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what does it mean the contradiction here okay what it means is yes your heart says i want to repent right but your action says another thing okay so just because you say something believe something doesn't doesn't count it's like your action has to match these things okay so yes you did become a friar you did promise yourself to a life of god but you also committed treachery you also lied to the people inside the city drew them out and then betrayed them you also gave the pope really bad counsel you should have told the pope like don't do this don't go against your enemies instead you um you you helped them trick other people okay you gave farther than counsel you engage in manipulation and treachery and deception right so it doesn't matter what you say your actions speak for themselves okay that's the idea here you're condemned by your actions yeah guys there's no

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answer we're we're just throwing out possibilities yes

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um yeah but i mean the pope should have known that this is not god -like right

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and the pope's gonna burn in hell

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yeah right we already know boniface is gonna burn in hell yeah right but like almost every pope was corrupt well a lot so like almost everyone should be there

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yeah there are a lot of popes burning hell yes okay uh and anyone else yes

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yeah there's something about i mean this one and uh and the past few cantos there's something about manipulation that comes to mind it's it's it's almost like the flip side of the positive imagination of love by god this is the manipulation of this kind of like the other side of the coin to serve himself right it's still a fundamental selfish act to

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and that's why he's burning in hell but the story again the story there are certain paradoxes in the story i still don't get why francis would come down to honor this contract

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yes uh yeah i would just uh uh keep asking a question like because i know that during that period the black party to keep fighting with the white party so the dante which is uh uh i think it's the dante who keeps fighting with the white party he's trying to uh against the black party right but during back that period i think the two parties want to try to compete with each other who is right and who will be uh superior so maybe in that case that uh yeah maybe just only the war could killing people which can just allow the uh the empire to be solidified so yeah did you want to say something well it was a black angel

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that told him that he can't bring him to heaven but black angels are fallen angels right right fallen angels don't have any power in heaven or do they well no there's like like the man died

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right the sinner died and now there are two angels fighting for his body right saint francis and the black sherbin okay and the platform is i have priority over you why does it have priority

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to me why does it why does a fallen angel have more priority yeah that's a paradox right i'm saying like there are a lot of paradoxes in

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the story one paradox is yes uh what did francis agree to help him and two how did the black sherbin have more power than saint francis right these are paradoxes all right okay let's try to unpack what's going on okay point one is that the pope boniface says are the keys to heaven okay so what they're saying is that as pope he is the representative of god on earth okay so he does have a certain power and that's why the sinner agrees to such duplicity because he's guaranteed right there's a contract at at play right okay and then because of this contract uh saint francis has to come and honor this contract otherwise you're you're avoiding the authority of the church of the church on earth okay does that make sense but this is saying that there are these laws that are above the contract in the catholic church okay and at this point in

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history to hear these ideas would be revolutionary right because at this time in history everyone did believe the pope was the representative of god on earth and catholics still do today and a pope literally has a power to grant you access to heaven so that's what i think is going on but i could be wrong okay all right this is all just speculation any other thoughts or comments about about this just following up on what you just said i think

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justice trumps the catholic church and that authority yeah and this is revolutionary at

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this time at this point of issue right okay this alludes to the universality of truth like there is something governing even you know the angels close to god that's right okay yes

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there is a cosmic order okay all right let's keep on going canto 28 who even with untrammeled words and many attempts at telling ever could recount and full the blood and wounds that i now saw each tongue that tried would certainly fall short because the shallowness of both our speech and intellect cannot contain so much were you to reassemble all the men who once within a pool is fateful land had mourned their blood shed at the trojans hands as well as those who fell in the long war where massive mounds of rings were battle spoils even as livy writes who does not err and those who felt the thrust of painful blows when they fought hard against robert guiscar with all the rest whose bones are still piled up at cheperano each poolian was a traitor there and two at talia cozzo where old alardo conquered without weapons and then where one to show his

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limb pierced through and won his limb hacked off that would not match the hideousness of the ninth abyss no barrel even though it's lost a hooper hand and peace ever gapes as one whom i saw ripped right from his chin to where we fart his bowels hung between his legs one saw his vitals in the miserable sack that makes of what we saw swallow excrement while i was all intent on watching him he looked at me and with his hands he spread his chest and said see how i split myself see now how maimed muhammad is and he who walks and weeps before me is ali whose face is open wide from chin to forelock and all the others here whom you can see were when alive the sowers of dissension and scandal and for this they now

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are split okay so this in this uh part of hell uh these are people who've caused civil discord war between families okay and the first two people we see being punished are muhammad and ali and this of course would be confusing to a lot of people especially muslims okay so what how donnie understands this is that he thinks um that islam is just splitting off from christianity right you believe you all read the bible you believe in the same god and so this is basically just a division uh of of two religions okay so at this time in history uh catholics believe that muhammad was just leading leading a a heresy okay so and then ali is muhammad's grandson he caused a division among the islamic faith between the shia muslims and the sunni muslims okay the shia muslims believe that only an ancestor so only a descendant of muhammad can be caliph be the

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supreme leader and the sunnis believe no that's not necessarily the case okay and that caused a massive schism which continues to today okay um and so for creating this um discord their bodies are constantly ripped in half and split all the time okay all right uh let's keep on going line 37 behind us here devil

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dex is out so cruelly the shia muslims are constantly ripped in half and split all the time okay all right uh let's keep on going line 37 behind us here devil decks us out so cruelly behind us here devil decks us out so cruelly replacing everyone of this throng underneath the sword edge when we've made our way around the road of pain because our wounds have closed again before we have returned to meet his blade once more but who are you who dawdle on this ridge perhaps to slow your going to the verdict that was pronounced on yourself accusations death has not reached him yet my master answered nor is it guilt that summons him to torment but that he may gain full experience i who am dead must guide him here below to circle after circle throughout hell this is as true as that i speak to you more than a hundred when they

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heard him stopped within the ditch and turned to look at me forgetful of their torture wondering then you who will perhaps soon see the sun tell fra docino to provide himself with food if he has no desire to join me here quickly lest when snow besieges him it bring the nova reza the victory that otherwise they would not find too easy when he had raised his heel as if to go muhammad said these words to me and then he said it on the ground and off he went another sinner with his throat slid through and with his nose hacked off up to his eyebrows and no more than a single year remaining had with the other state with his steps in wonder he was the first before the rest to open his windpipe on the outside all blood red and said oh you whom guilt does not condemn and whom unless too close resemblance cheats

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me i've seen above upon italian soil remember peer to medicina have you ever again the gentle plane that from vercelli slopes to marco and let the two best men afano know i mean both messer guido and angelello that if the foresight we have here is not vain they'll be cast out of their ship and drowned weighed down with stones near la catolica because of a foul tyrant's treachery between the aisles of cyprus of the yorka neptune has never seen so cruel a crime committed by the pirates or the argives that traitor who sees only with one eye and rules the land which one who's here with me would wish his sight had never seen will call guido and angelello to a parlay and then will so arrange it that they'll need no vow or prayer to focara's wind and i to him if you would have me carry some news of you above then tell

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and show me who so detests the sight of remaining and then he set on the jaw of a companion opening his mouth and shouting this is he and he speaks not a man cast out he quenched the doubt in caesar insisting that the one who's prepared can only suffer harm if he delays oh how dismayed in pain he seemed to me his tongue slit in his gullet curio who once was so audacious in his talk and one who walked with both his hands hacked off while lifting off his stumps through the dark air so that his face was hideous with blood cried out you will remember mosca too who said alas what's done is at an end which was the seed of evil for the tuscans i added and brought death to your own kinsmen then having heard me speak grief heaped on grief he went his way as one gone mad with sadness but

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i stayed there to watch their company and saw a thing that i should be afraid to tell with no more proof than my own self except that i am reassured by conscience that good can't be a companion heartening a man beneath the breastplace of its purity i surely saw and it still seems i see a trunk without a head that walked just like the others in that melancholy heard it carried by the hair its severed head which swayed within its hand just like a lantern and that head looked at us and said ah me out of itself it made itself a lamb and they were two and one and one and two how that can be he knows who so decrees when it was just below the bridge it lifted its arm together with this head so that its word might be more near us words that said now you can see atrocious punishment you

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who still breathing go to view the dead see if there's any pain as great as this and so that I you may carry news of me know that I'm Bertrand de Bourgh the one who gave bad counsel to the fledgling king I made the son and father enemies and and and kids have fell with his malicious urgings did not do worse with Absalom and David because I severed those so joined I carry alas my brain to severed from its source which is within my trunk and thus in me one sees the law of the Lord.

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of counter penalty okay so we are we are these sinners committed they sold discord and this discord became permanent right so we talked about Mohammed and Ali then there's Curio who sold discord between Caesar and Pompey who were previously good friends this is this led to a massive civil war in in Rome which will end only with the rise of the Roman Empire you also Bertrand de Bourgh and he's lost his head because he caught discord he caused discord or civil war between a father king and a son the prince okay um just for fun um who you put into this circle like today like from from from history or from today or just from your imagination who would you put into this circle circle a sort of discord just for fun yes Hitler excuse me Hitler no that's that's not what he did yes okay because like I asked people like who who belongs

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in hell your first first thought is Hitler right but like let's think about the punishment okay so of discord uh yes

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uh representative of democrats and republicans and like far right far left but but but can you give me an example like Trump for republicans and like Kamala Harris maybe Donald Trump right

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yeah okay maybe Donald Trump because Donald Trump has led to the polarization of American society right it's either you are for him or against him yes so it's a good good idea yes

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uh yes along that line I was gonna say J.D Vance

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why why did J.D Vance

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because because he also sows conflict

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but in every politician soils conflict then right um yeah but but but yeah Trump is a good suggestion anyone else it doesn't happen anytime soonτο have to be a real real person it could also be a fictional character a movie character okay or just someone from your life that you really really don't like okay yes social media in general and the makers of them so mark zuckerberg right is that a possibility because you schism it doesn't

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have to be like turning one into two it can be turning one into multiple scatter well no no the

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idea of like the social media algorithms is that they're trying to provoke anger because with anger you're much more engaged you're much more likely to use uh social media right so someone like mark zuckerberg is a sort of discord and that's the major concern about social media right before you had the evening news and evening news was a place to build consensus to build community with social media you just go you live in your own bubble and then you start arguing with other people and then it's no longer about finding consensus it's just about like beating the other guy right so mark zuckerberg arguably is a sort of discord along donald trump yeah these are two good suggestions anyone else

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yes maybe not a good one but uh greta thunberg okay why like she she creates discord between people who seek like money without like looking at the earth like environmental so she creates division between people who believe in environment and people who just make money in billionaires

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is she is she the root of this conflict is she the cause of this conflict uh yes yeah just media in

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general i guess it's like the biggest polarizing factor like right any media for like newspapers

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movies maybe even right media sure just media right i'm looking for a name guys okay you you can't put media into hell you have to put a person in the hell yes make maybe nick fuentes for his jewish people instead of zionist yeah i i i i think that's a good choice as well nick fuentes yes

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right yes right just following his idea i was gonna say charlie kirk

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some people believe that yes right depends on your politics but some people do do believe that yes

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um schism though like this idea is schism what what are we schisming like we're separating yeah

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that's a good point what are we separating yes from right so so the best choice would be donald trump because he caused a schism in the republican party right between conservative republicans and maga right that's that's a pretty

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good but but but according to dante this is schisming from god right and i mean there's

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not necessarily not necessarily not necessarily no right because caesar and pompey didn't believe in god right okay all right so this is this is just an exercise okay it's like like like it's not political commentary yes all right yes all right let's keep on going kanto 29

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so many souls and such outlandish one outlandish wounds had made my eyes inebriate they long to stay and weep but virgil said to me why are you staring so insistently why does your vision linger there below among the lost and mutilated shadows you did not do so at the other moats if you would count them all consider 22 miles make up the circuit of the valley of the valley the moon already is beneath our feet the time allotted to us now is short and there's more to see than you see here had you i answered him without a pause been able to consider why i looked you might have granted me a longer stay meanwhile my guide had moved ahead i went behind him answering as i walked on and adding in that hollow upon which just now i kept my eyes intent i think a spirit born of my own blood laments the guilt

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which down below costs so much at this my master said don't let your thoughts about him interrupt you from here on attend to other things let him stay there for i saw him below the little bridge his finger pointing at you threatening and heard him called by name jerry de bello but at that moment you were occupied with him who once was lord of kodofor you did not notice jerry he moved off my guide it was his death by violence for which he still is not avenged i said by anyone who shares his shame with him who once was lord of kodofor you did not notice jerry he moved off my guide it was his death by violence for which he still is not avenged i said by anyone who shares his shame jerry he moved off my guide it was his death by violence for which he still is not avenged i said by

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anyone who shares his shame that made him so disdainful now and i suppose for this he left without a word to me and this has made me pity him the more and so we talked until we found the first point of the ridge that if there were more light would show the other valley to the bottom when we had climbed above the final cloister of malabal journey so that its lay brothers were able to appear before our eyes i felt the force of strange laments like arrows whose shafts are barbed with pity and at this i had to place my hands across my ears just like the sufferings that all the sake of valdikiana's hospitals maramas sardinas from july until september would muster if assembled in one ditch so was it here and such a stench rose up as usually comes from festering limbs and keeping always to the left we climbed down to the

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final bank of the long ridge and then my sight could see more vividly into the bottom where unerring justice the minister of the high lord punishes the falsifiers she had registered i do not think that there was greater grief in seeing all aegina's people sick then when the air was so infected that all animals down to the little worm collapsed and afterward as poets hold to be the certain truth those ancient peoples received their health again through seed of ants then i felt when i saw in that dark valley the spirit languishing in scattered heaps some lay upon their bellies some upon the shoulders of another spirit some crawled on all fours along that squalid road we journeyed step by step without a word watching and listening to those six souls who had not strength enough to lift themselves i saw two sitting propped against each other as pan is propped on pan to heat

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them up heat them up and each from head to foot spotted with scabs and i have never seen a stable boy whose master waits for him or one who stays awake reluctantly so ply a horse with curry comb as they hold themselves with clawing nails their itching had such force and fury and there was no other help and so that nails kept scraping off the scabs just as the knife scrapes off the scales of carp or of another fish with scales more large oh you who use your nails to strip yourself my god began my guide began to say to one of them and sometimes have to turn them into pincers tell us if there are some italians among the sinners in this moat so may your nails hold out eternal at their work we tomb who you see so disfigured here we're italians one said in tears but who are you who have inquired

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of us my guide replied from circle down to circle together with this living man i'm one who descends i mean to show him hell at this their mutual support broke off and quivering each spirit turned toward me with other who by chance had heard his words then my good master drew more close to me saying now tell them what is it you want and i began to speak just as he wished so that your memory may never fade within the first world from the minds of men but still live on and under many sons do tell me who you are and from what city and do not let your vile and filthy torment make you afraid to let me know your names one answered me my city was a red so and albero sienna had me burned but what i died for does not bring him here bring me here it's true that i had

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told him that i was a man of the earth and that i had by no means an emissary but a gentleman who was the god of the world sienna had me burned i would not happen to have suggested that i should do something like this one who served him jestingly i'd know enough to fly through air and he with curiosity but little sense wished me to show that art to him and just because i had not made him dadalus had one who held him as a son burn me but minos who cannot mistake condemned my spirit to the final pouch of ten for alchemy i practice in the world and then i asked the poet match such vanity. At this the other leper who had heard me replied to what I said, except for Strica, for he knew how to spend most frugally, and Niccolo, the first to make men see that clothes can serve

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as luxury, such seed and gardens where its suits can take fast fruit, and two, Caccia d 'Asciano's company, with whom he squandered vineyards and tilled fields, while Abagliato showed such subtlety. But if you want to know who joins you so against the Sienese, look hard at me, that way my face can also answer lightly, and see that I'm the shade of that Capoccio whose alchemy could counterfeit fine metals, and you, if I correctly take your measure, recall how apt I was at aping nature." Okay, all right, so this is really interesting because we reached the lowest point.

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Um, area of hell, and this area is reserved for those who engage in alchemy, okay? Now, alchemy is something that's very common back at this time. Alchemy is basically trying to find, uh, trying to turn lead into gold. It's trying to find the elixir of youth, um, or immortality, okay? So you're trying to... do chemistry, basically. Why would this be the worst sin in the circle of fraud? What's the issue with this? We, we know why thievery is an issue. We, we, we know why, uh, identity theft is an issue. We understand all this, but why, why would alchemy be an issue? In fact, it's the worst thing you can, you can do in, in fraud. Yeah. Yeah.

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Why is that?

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Because it gives people false hope, and such that people waste their life pursuing something that is not real.

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Right, but then you can argue that heresy is the same thing, right? Uh, yeah, yes, yes.

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So is it because of, like, these alchemists, they actually feed some of, like, what you want? For example, they feed your greed, they feed, like, this, uh, your, your want of, uh,

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example love or immortality right but but all people who commit fraud do that right why are they the worst of all these fraudsters did you um it's like you're you're trying to change the whole

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fabric fabric of the world yes you're trying to bend everything for your wants and desires yes

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you're trying to change the loss of god okay it's not that you're not going to succeed but the fact that you're trying the fact that people are helping you try that's a problem yeah it's a bad example okay so before we were discussing society right the law society and how people warp society with fraud but now with alchemy you're trying to warp nature with fraud okay and that's even worse okay does that make sense right uh yes this is a bit of a weird question

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but i saw some thought of some parallels but would you say like for example today the striving and working towards ai is kind of like

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old alchemy because we're trying to exactly fabric it's it's ai is alchemy guys yes you're exactly right okay uh yes how about new nuclear energy it is it is alchemy it is it is complete complete

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alchemy yes that's right yes how about moon landing it's also considered as alchemy what do

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you think excuse me more landing moon landing um it's not alchemy but you're also going against the laws of nature right it's like ulysses falling off the the edge of the earth right it's like why are you in the moon guys like like why there are poor people back here okay there's lots of problems here solve the problems first before you go to the moon okay so it's not alchemy but it's still problematic okay but ai is a hundred percent alchemy nuclear energy is uh also problematic okay it's also alchemy

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okay uh yes but but what if that uh just like ai who can give people a job give people hope or even love it is due to the common economy it's a huge bomb yes right yeah yes did you a few

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decades ago they would have said the internet is alchemy but the internet has brought you know education like this youtube live stream to millions of people and it that's also improved jobs so is that like would you also say wait u vertically economic stock this is not america business мозk say the internet is alchemy.

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The internet is not alchemy.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=11478s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=11478s)

But then AI is alchemy.

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Right, right, okay. So can you try to explain the difference between AI and the internet?

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Like the internet facilitates normal worldly ideas to spread, but AI is from nothing creating...

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What does AI stand for? Artificial intelligence. That's alchemy, guys. Creating intelligence artificially, right? Turning lead into gold. Artificial intelligence. Yes?

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I guess, I mean, just taking the thesis of this whole course is to assume that this is divinity. I guess one of the things that I can see here is a warning about manipulating nature, manipulating reality, the nature of reality itself, is that the risks that these things come with are unimaginable. It is potentially the worst.

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Yeah, so the problem with our world today is we don't think there are moral laws at work, right? We are in a post -truth world, right? We are beyond God. We can be our own God.

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Yes? Maybe similar to artificial intelligence is artificial insemination or genetic manipulation in order to create the perfect... That is correct, yes....perfect offspring....perfect offspring and numerous offspring.

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Yes, you're absolutely correct. It is alchemy. That is alchemy. Yes. Yes, did you have a...

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Yeah. It's like, I feel curious, like how could we, like why we regard AI as alchemy, but obviously it has to mention a part of, but for me, I feel a little bit confused because I thought like based on AI algorithm, it's, I know it's like artificial, it's intelligence, but still it's currently those models doesn't have their own power to create this idea that never have occurred before. So like for me, AI is still a tool that is more objectively like help you to search out the information that has already been exist. So from my point of view, AI may not like obey the law of God because it actually doesn't create something. It's just like trying to sort out the information for you.

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Right, right. I understand this, but for Donnie, the concern is the intent. It is the intent. If you talk to people who work in AI, they're like, we're trying to create God. Okay. You understand? So alchemy, right? Trying to turn lead into gold. It doesn't work. We know it doesn't work. There'll never be immortality, but what are all these Silicon Valley's building and spending their money on? Immortality, right? It's not that you'll succeed, but it's like you intend to do this. Okay. Okay, right, that's the issue. All right, yes.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=11667s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=11667s)

So if nuclear power is alchemy is for example, fossil fuels or like renewable energies also alchemy.

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Okay, so nuclear energy we can debate about. Okay. But yeah, I would say nuclear energy is alchemy because and I think the crucial distinction is that with nuclear energy you're entering into territory that is the very fundamental fabric of nature of the universe, right? You don't actually know the consequences of your actions, right? Look, there are people who believe that the entire point of the nuclear bomb is to open portals to welcome summon demons into our world. There are literally people who believe that, right? That's alchemy. Okay, so the point isn't as nuclear weapon weapons are not meant to be a weapon. They're meant to be a portal to summon interdimensional aliens or demons into our world. Okay. Yeah, so it's worth some intent. Yes.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=11742s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=11742s)

Yeah, with this intention, then I wonder alchemy is turning lead to gold, which is which is impossible by the laws of chemistry and God. The splitting of the atom is possible. We've done it. So I wonder if this intention to a thing that cannot happen is alchemy. Where a thing that can't happen is no different than me taking medicine for a sickness. God put that sickness in my body that gave me the ability to cure the sickness. The intention is there on both of them. The one one is within the realm of the fabric of the universe. One is clearly not right.

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Okay, so that's a really interesting comment. Okay, and so how would Donnie respond to this? Well, you have the intention, but you're not gonna succeed. So who cares how Donnie respond to that? You would say if there's a will there's a way you understand. So you we think we cannot turn lead into gold, but we actually have succeeded in doing so. Because now we have the idea of money, right? What is money? Money is alchemy. Because what I've done is I've taken a piece of paper, right? Any piece of paper and I've turned it into gold, right? Is how is that different from alchemy? I can now use this money to go buy a house or buy a car.

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Yes, I guess the difference would be classification. You're turning you turn that paper into wealth, but you did not turn it into gold. So but what is gold? So gold is wealth, right? They're both wealth. They're both types of wealth, but you did not turn it into the physical components.

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Well, I can tell you I can use money by gold.

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Yeah, you so you turned them both into well, they both have value. You turn them into purchasing power, but you didn't turn it is into the physical components of gold.

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No, no, no. But what I'm saying is like lead in the gold, right? If I add an intermediary step, which is like. Print money, then I saw the problem, right? I can use money to buy gold and then I can sell lead to get money. Okay, so how is that different? No, so so I'm not saying, you know, we succeeded in the goal. I'm saying like for Dante. The concern is where there's a will there's a way we can never ever underestimate the human imagination. That's the animating force of the universe, right? So we set our intent on something. And this intent is malicious. Then that's a sin. Yes.

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Yeah. I also agree with the fact that if you have a will to distort the order that God has set up to be, then that's the ultimate sin. Just like the Tower of Babel, where there's a will, there's a way. So people are building the Tower of Babel to reach heaven and be like, we can preach God. We can let God. Basically, it's like the first landing of the moon. Like people trying the impossible, you know, going to outer space and God's like, no, you guys are not going to do that. I'm giving you languages. So you guys are messed up. So you can't do that. But that the sub messages is that if people so well continue, they probably can because there's a will, you know, there's a way. And so that's why God had to send us different languages to stop, you know, people working towards that goal. So I think it's the same scene that's repeated here.

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It's like if there's a way, a will, there's a way. So if there's a will to replace God, right? And distort his order that he has established in the natural laws, you know, then it's. Abomination. Right.

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Okay.

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Yes. I think there is a kind of philosophy, but also German concept. It's called and art and right. It's about and art. And it's the art, you know, the nature to turn something into another nature to to basically to betray your nature. And I can e n t a r a t n. Yeah.

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And naturalize. Yeah.

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So basically to to to deprive the the the. Yeah. Okay. That's you.

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Well, no, but why is it? Why is it the German?

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Basically is is chemistry because it's basically try to deprive the human being or the, you know, godly Kingdom of its original purpose. Why is it just a German thing? Alchemy is appropriate. You know, the the intent is to to, you know, take over the Kingdom of God, you know, the all whatever the humanity and to replace is what with your own personal, you know, will and that's I think is goes beyond the the nature of, you know, the rules of nature. And then that's a crime against humanity, right?

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And we can also appreciate that. These alchemists are sinful because. Even though they're not successful, they're still they're still make a believe that it's possible to change the rules of nature, which leads to hubris, which leads to a lot of like really bad behavior. Okay. All right. Okay. So does that make sense guys? All right. Let's let's continue. But thank you so much for that. Okay. It's a really interesting idea and we'll come back to it later on because we live in an age of AI. And what I want to do as move on is try to use. Dante to better understand the most pressing issues of our time, including AI. Okay. All right.

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So this is in front of 30 counter 30 when Juno wasn't sent with Semele and thus against the Theban family had shown her fury time and time again. Then Athamas was driven so insane that seeing both his wife and their two sons as she bore one upon each arm, he cried. Let's spread the Nets to take the lioness together with her Cubs along the path. And he stretched out his talent, his talents, pitiless, and snatched the son who bore the name Laercas, whirled him around and dashed him on a rock. She with her other burden drowned herself. And after fortune turned against the pride of Troy, who had dared also that the king together with his kingdom was destroyed. Then Hecuba was wretched, sad, a captive. And after she had seen Polyxena dead and it's in misery, had recognized her. Paula Doris lying on the shore. She barked out of her senses like a dog.

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Her agony had so deformed her mind. But neither fury Theban Trojan ever was seen to be so cruel against another in rending beasts and even human limbs. As were two shades. I saw both pale naked who biting ran berserk and just the way a hog does when it's let's loose from its sty. The one came at Kapocho. And so. He sank his tusks into his neck so that by dragging he made the hard ground scrape against his belly. And he who stayed behind the Aretini trembled and said that phantoms Johnny sneaky. And he does raging rending others so. He goes raging rending others so. And, oh, I said to him, so may the other not sink its teeth in you. Please tell me who it is before it hurries off from here. And he to me. That is the ancient soul of the indecent mirror. She who loved her father passed the limits of just love.

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He can't. She came to sin with him by falsely taking another shape upon herself. Just as the other phantom who goes there had done that. He might gain the lady of the herd when he disguised himself as boss of Donati making a will as if most properly. And when the pair of raging ones had passed those two on whom my eyes were fixed. I turned around to see the rest of the ill -born. I saw one who'd been fashioned like a loot. If he had only had his groin cut off from that part of his body where it forks. The heavy dropsy which so departs this proportions the limbs with unassimilated humors that there's no match between the face and belly had made him part his lips like a consumptive who will because of thirst. Let one lip drop down to his chin and lift the other up. Oh you exempt from every punishment in this grim world and I do not know why he said to us.

### 3:24:22 seg-0396

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Look now and pay attention to this the misery of Master Adam alive. I had enough of all I wanted. Alas, I now long for one drop of water. The rivulets that fall into the Arno down from the green hills of the Casentino with channels cool and moist are constantly before me. I'm racked by memory. The image of their flow parches me more than the disease that robs me. My face of flash. Flesh. The rigid justice that would torment me uses as most appropriate the place where I had sinned to draw swift size for me. There's Romina. There I counterfeited the currency that bears the Baptist seal. For this I left my body burned above. But could I see the miserable souls of Guido, Alessandro, or their brother? I'd not give up the sight for Fonte Branda. And one of them is in this moat already.

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If what the angry shades report is true, what use is that to me whose limbs are tied? Were I so light that in a hundred years I could advance an inch? I should already be well upon the road to search for him among the mutilated ones. Although the circuit measures some eleven miles and is at least a half mile across. Because of them I'm in this family. It was those three who had incited me to coin the florins with three carats dross. And I to him. Who are those two poor sinners who give off smoke like wet hands in the winter and lie so close to you upon the right? I found them here, he answered. When I rain down to this rocky slope, they've not stirred since and will not move, I think, eternally. One is the lying woman who blamed Joseph. The other, lying Sinan, Greek from Troy. Because of raging fever they wreak so.

### 3:26:10 seg-0398

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And one of them who seemed to take offense. Perhaps at being named so squalidly, struck with his fist at Adam's rigid belly. It sounded as if it had been a drum. And Master Adam struck him in the face using his arm which did not seem less hard. Saying to him, although I cannot move my limbs because they're too heavy, I still have an arm that's free to serve that need. And he replied, but when you went to burning your arm was not as quick as it was now. Though when you coined it was as quick and more. To which the drop seed one, here you speak true, but you were not so true a witness there. When you were asked to tell the truth at Troy. If I spoke false, you falsified the coin, said Sinan. I'm here for just one crime, but you've committed more than any demon.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12419s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12419s)

Do not forget the horse, you perjurer, replied the one who had the bloated belly. May you be plagued because the whole world knows this. The Greek, and you be plagued by thirst that cracks your tongue in putrid waters. That has made your belly such a hedge before your eyes. And then the coiner. So as usual your mouth because of racking fever gapes. For if I thirst and if my humerus bloats me, you have both dryness and a head that aches. Few words would be sufficient invitation to have you lick the mirror of narcissus. I was intent on listening to them when this was what my master said. If you insist on looking more, I'll quarrel with you. And when I heard him speak so angrily, I turn around to him with shame. I regret that it still stirs within my memory. Even as one who dreams that he is harmed and dreaming, wishes he were dreaming, thus desiring that which is as if it were not.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12471s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12471s)

So I became within my speechlessness. I wanted to excuse myself and did excuse myself, although I knew it not. Lest shame would wash away a greater fault than was your fault, my master said to me. Therefore release yourself from all remorse and see that I am always at your side, should it so happen once again that fortune brings you where men would quarrel in this fashion, to want to hear such bickering is base.

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Okay, all right, so this is a very complicated canto, okay? There are lots of individuals and there's a lot going on, okay? So in this last area of the circle of fraud, there are lots of people who are condemned here, okay? They are, of course, the alchemists. Then you have impostors, people who steal people's identity. Then you have counterfeiters. And so, first of all, what do we have? Actually, you know what, Carol, could you do me a favor and Google this? Like, who's actually in canto 30? So I want to make sure I'm correct here, okay? I want to make sure, because this is a very confusing canto. And there are lots of different individuals, okay? So... So let's see who they are, okay? Okay, so these are the falsifiers, yes? You have Master Adam, who's a counterfeiter. You have a spy, who's a false witness. You have Gianna Sitsi, who is an impostor. And you have Mera, Mera, okay?

### 3:29:45 seg-0402

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12585s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12585s)

And so the two people who have an argument are Sinon and Master Adam, right? Master Adam is a counterfeiter. And Sinon is a Greek spy. Who convinced the Trojans to take in the Trojan horse. And they're having an argument about who is worse. Gianna Sitsi, he is an impostor who disguises himself as a dead person, okay? So, first of all, what is the connection among all these people, the falsifiers? It's a very confusing section. You have a counterfeiter. You have a spy. You have an impostor. You have Mera, who disguises herself to commit incest for her own father. Huh. What's going on here? Maybe this is just a garbage heap of hell, right? Like, you don't belong in any other category, so you're just dumped here. But that's not Dante, right? We already said that Dante, there's a lot of intentionality. There's a lot of creativity. There's a lot of imagination.

### 3:30:57 seg-0403

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12657s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12657s)

So what is he doing here? All right. So let's look at certain things that happens, okay? So the outcome is... So, you have a phantomess who suffers from leprosy, okay? Their punishment is leprosy. Gianni, the impostor, he sinks his teeth into the leper. What does this signify, do you think? And again, it's all speculation, guys. We don't know, okay? We don't actually know what the allegorical meaning is. We're just speculating here, okay? But there's this violent scene where the impostor, Gianni, he sinks his teeth into the alchemist and tries to eat him.

### 3:31:59 seg-0404

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12719s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12719s)

Yes? So, the impostor basically is a person who tries to steal somebody else's identity. And so this, you know, appropriate punishment or educational course for them is to let them sink their, you know, to consume the identity of a very evil person so that they will be satiated.

### 3:32:26 seg-0405

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12746s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12746s)

Okay, yeah. So, the thing, though, is that the alchemist is a leper, okay? And at this time in history, who does everyone want to avoid? Lepers, okay? So, the punishment for this impostor is he's forced to just randomly eat people, including those who are lepers, okay? Okay. So, that makes sense. Why would Master Adam, who's a counterfeiter, why would he argue with Sinon about who's worse? And this is actually the first time in Divine Comedy we see an argument between two souls, right? These two sinners. And they're arguing about, like, who's worse, right? Well, I mean, like, technically, they're all equally bad, right? Because they're in the same area of hell. So, what are they arguing about? Let's just throw some possibilities, okay? Like this. Speculate. Just use your imagination. Just throw ideas out here. Let's just brainstorm together, okay? You have a counterfeiter and you have a spy arguing about who's worse.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12830s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12830s)

Why would they do that?

### 3:33:57 seg-0407

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12837s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12837s)

Yes? Because each of them feel like the other one shouldn't be at the same level where they are, you know? Like, every one of them feel like they're superior or, like, they're condemned least. Like, lesser sins than the others.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12857s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12857s)

Yeah, yeah. So, they're different, right? And they're trying to figure out, like, why they're together. And they kind of piss that they're together. Yes?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12865s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12865s)

Yes? Um, like, the alchemists, they both changed the nature of reality. So, Master Adam, he basically changed, like, um, he changed money, basically, right? Or, like, he made fake money. So, he changed the nature of reality. He changed the nature of money. And Sinon changed, um, I mean, he basically, yeah, made the Trojans believe that it's a horse that is a present, right, for the Trojans, even though it basically destroyed Troy. So, he changed also their nature of reality.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12908s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12908s)

Yeah. So, the similarity is that both are changing the perception of reality, right? Both are manipulating the perception of reality. They're not alchemists who are manipulating reality itself, but they are changing people's perception of reality, right? One, by creating counterfeit coins and taking advantage of, uh, people's reliance on money. And the other is giving false testimony or lying in order to create, um, a different reality, okay? So, one's a counterfeiter. And the other is basically, like, one of these, um, fake news reporters, right? Uh, yes?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12965s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12965s)

I wonder if, maybe the counterfeiter doesn't fit, but an impersonator is a form of theft, but it's a specific, you're stealing someone's identity, which would be, like, God's creation. You're stealing something from God because God created you and your identity, where if I stole your wallet, God didn't create that.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12988s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12988s)

Okay. So, why are they all together? Right? These are all the falsifiers. They're, and they're all different, yes?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12996s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12996s)

They all prey on people's trust.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13000s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13000s)

They all prey on people's trust. They take advantage of people's trust. But this is an entire circle, right? Uh, yes?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13011s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13011s)

They're all manipulating a larger trust. So, money is, it's not just trust between individuals, it's trust by society, right? Um, what's the other one? The Trojan horse. This is, this is money. This is, you know, you're ending an entire civilization.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13028s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13028s)

Right.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13031s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13031s)

Altering the course of history.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13034s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13034s)

Right.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13035s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13035s)

I think this could be a step more than alchemy, because instead of changing objects, you're impersonating Mira, impersonated as a different person to sleep with her father. Right. And I guess it's something that's supposedly created by God and is transformed into something that you can't trust. So, you're not just manipulating objects and soulless things. You are manipulating things that supposedly have a soul.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13076s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13076s)

Yes. Okay. Right.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13079s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13079s)

Oh, you know, another word. Uh, where else? Uh, in the letter of, the letter of sinners. Uh, they might, uh, be stealing things or destroying people's trust. Uh, this group of sinners, they create a false trust, which could be, uh, you know, meta trust, uh, meta sievery. So, which is a higher level of sievery.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13108s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13108s)

Yes. Okay. Yes.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13115s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13115s)

For alchemy, we said that to an extent it's futile because it's too much. It has to do with your will, but I'm not sure the exact history of all these people, but did they actually succeed in doing it?

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But how do they succeed? What allowed them to succeed in a way that alchemists cannot succeed? Alchemists want to change the nature. They want to change the fabric of nature, right? And you can't do that. That's not what we can do. What word is crucial to Dante that we have not used today and basically yesterday?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13161s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13161s)

Consciousness. Maybe. Why consciousness is important? Because. What do we do with the consciousness? It's our connection with God. Consciousness. Or imagination.

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Imagination. Okay. All right. So one possibility, okay. And I'm just putting this out there for us to discuss. Okay. Is that what these four people have in common is hijacking the imagination. Does that make sense? Okay. So remember in paradise, the imagination is what makes us unique. It's what makes us co -creators. It's what makes us co -creators with God. Right? It's what allows the universe to expand outwards. But you could also use your imagination for evil, right? And when you use it for evil, what happens is the universe contracts. You're limiting people's imaginative space. Does that make sense? You're hijacking the imagination for evil ends. That brings evil to the world. Right? And before, we always thought that imagination is a good thing. Well, it should be a good thing. And you can use it to create poetry, to create society. But there are people who can hijack people's imaginations to create evil in this world.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13243s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13243s)

Right? Does that make sense? So as a counterfeiter, what you're doing is you're hijacking people's imagination that this money is very valuable. Right? As a spy, you're hijacking people's imagination that people tell the truth. The imposter hijacks people's imagination that only we can write our own wills. Right? So they're all hijacking the imagination in some way. Right? And you think about it, for Dante, this would be a lot worse than trying to hijack nature. Okay? And this is interesting because... In our society, then who are like the worst people? To me? No, not really. That would be like laws against... Acting against God and nature. Right? It'd be like sodomy and incest. It'd be in a circle of violence. But this circle of fraud. Yes? Influencers on social media? I think so. I think so. I think that's what Dante is saying here. Okay? And I could be wrong. But it sounds like social media influencers.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13338s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13338s)

People with like huge followings. But not me, of course. They're the worst people. Because they're hijacking the social consciousness. They're hijacking the social imagination. Okay? I'm not going to name names because I'll get in trouble. But yes, you can imagine certain people. Right? Okay? So that's what he's saying here.

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Any... Yes? Yeah, because I heard in America the highest hierarchical crime is not killer. It's just the people who manipulate others and try to let them believe that the lie is truth. Look, look.

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I mean like this is hard for people in China to appreciate. But media people are really powerful in America. You know? It's not true in China. Media people in China have actually no power. But in America, if you work in the media, you're really, really powerful. Okay?

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13393s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13393s)

Yesterday, one of the participants mentioned that in Haidian, the biggest crime is fraud. So... I mean a lot of fraud happens when some voice, AI voice impersonates a father, a mother, or son or daughter to get money from someone.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13409s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13409s)

Right. Exactly. Right? Right. So you are... With your social media influence, you could hijack the imagination of millions of people. So, yeah. I think that's what he's saying here. I could be wrong. Okay? But I'm trying to figure out what these four people have in common. Because they're so different on the surface. Right? Okay? All right. Let's continue.

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- Video timestamp: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13447s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13447s)

Canto 31. The very tongue that first had wounded me, sending the color up in both my cheeks, was then to cure me with its medicine. As did Achilles and his father's lance, even as I have heard when it dispensed a sad stroke first, and then a healing one. We turned our backs upon that dismal valley by climbing up the bank that girdles it. We made our way across without a word. Here it was less than night and less than day, so that my sight could only move. We moved ahead slightly. But then I heard a bugle blast so strong, it would have made a thunderclap seem faint. At this, my eyes, which doubled back upon their path, turned fully toward one place, not even Roland's born, which followed on the sad defeat when Charlemagne had lost his holy army, was as dread as this. I'd only turned my head there briefly when I seemed to make out many high towers, and I asked him, Master, tell me, what's this city?

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And he, to me, it is because you try to be wise. It is because you try to penetrate from far into these shadows that you have formed such faulty images. When you have reached that place, you shall see clearly how much the distance has deceived your sense, and therefore let this spur you on your way. Then lovingly, he took me by the hand and said, before we have moved farther on so that the fact may seem less strange to you, I'd have you know they're not towers, but giants, and from the navel downward, all of them are in the central pit at the embankment. Just as. Whenever mists begin to thin, when gradually vision finds the form that in the vapor -thickened air was hidden. So I pierced through the dense and darkened fog as I drew near, always nearer to the shore.

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My error fled from me, my terror grew. For as on its ground wall Monte Rigoni is crowned with towers, so they're towered here above the bank that runs around the pit, with half their bulk the terrifying giants, whom Jove still may know. And I could now make out the face of one, his shoulders and his chest, much of his belly, and both his arms that hung along his sides. Surely, when she gave up the art of making such creatures, nature acted well indeed, depriving Mars of instruments like these. And if she still produces elephants and whales, whoever sees with subtlety holds her, for this to be more just and prudent. And where the mind's acutest reasoning is joined to evil will and evil power, there are human beings can't defend themselves. His face appeared to me as broad and long as Rome can claim, for it's St. Peter's pine cone. His other bones shared in that same proportion.

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So that the bank which served him as an apron down from his middle showed so much of him above that three Frieslanders would in vain have boasted of their reaching to his hair. For downward from the place where one would buckle a mantle, I saw thirty -six of them, six bands of his. Raphael, my amicus sabi almi, began to bellow that brute mouth for which no sweeter psalms would be appropriate. And my guide turned to him, O stupid soul, keep to your horn and use that as an outlet when rage or other passion touches you. Look at your neck and you will find the strap that holds it fast, and see, bewildered spirit, how it lies straight across your massive chest. And then to me. He's his own accuser. For this is Nimrod, through whose wicked thought one single language cannot serve the world. Leave him alone. Let's not waste time and talk.

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For every language is to him the same as his to others. No one knows his tongue.

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So Nimrod, of course, is the man who built the Tower of Babel, right? And for his crime, he now, whatever he says is gibberish, okay? He's incomprehensible. Okay. Keep on going.

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So turning to the left, we journeyed on, and at the distance of a bow, shot, found another giant, far more huge and fierce, who was the master who had tied him so. I cannot say. But his left arm was bent behind him, and his right was bent in front, both pinioned by a chain that held him tight down from the neck and round the part of him that was exposed. It has been wound five times. This giant, in his arrogance, had tested his force against the force of Highest Jove, my guide said. So he merits this reward. His name is Iphialtes, and he showed tremendous power, and the giants frightened the gods. The arms he moved now moved no more. An eye to him. If it is possible, I'd like my eyes to have experience of the enormous one, Briareus. At which he answered, you shall see Antaeus nearby. He's unfettered and can speak. He'll take us to the bottom of all evil.

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The one you wish to see lies far beyond, and is bound up and just as huge as this one, and even more ferocious in his gaze. No earthquake ever was so violent when called to shake a tower so robust as Iphialtes is quick to shake himself. Then I was more afraid of death than ever, that fear would have been quite enough to kill me, had I not seen how he was held by chains. And we continued on until we reached Antaeus, who, not reckoning his head, stood out above the rock wall full of five elves. O you who lived within the famous valley, where Scipio became the heir of glory, where Hannibal retreated with his men, who took a thousand lions as your prey, and had you been together with your brothers in their high war. It seems some still believe the sons of earth would have become the victors.

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Do set us down below, where cold shuts in Cocytus, and do not disdain that task. Don't send us on to Tydeus or Typhon. This man can give you what is long for here, therefore bend down and do not curl your lip. He still can bring you fame within the world, for he's alive and still expects long life, unless grace summon him before his time. So said my master. And in haste Antaeus stretched out his hand, whose massive grip had once been felt by Hercules, and grasped my guide. And Virgil, when he felt himself caught up, called out to me, come here so I can hold you, then made one bundle of himself and me. Just as the garrisenda seems when seen beneath the leaning side, when clouds run past and it hangs down as if about to crash, so did Antaeus seem to me as I watched him bend over me, a moment when I'd have preferred to take some other road.

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But gently, on the deep that swallows up both Lucifer and Judas, he placed us, nor did he so bent over stay there long. But like a mast above a ship, he rose.

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Okay, so now we are now entering the final circle of hell. One comment is that Dante creates symmetry, right? So remember, in paradise, what leads... What leads us to the Imperium are these angels, right? And now, as we enter the final circle, it's these giants that lead us the way. I just want this out there, okay? Why giants in hell? Why angels in heaven? It's obvious for angels in heaven, but why giants in hell? And again, you just have to use your imagination because there's no answer, okay? You're going to lose your mind. You literally look at footnotes, and they won't ever tell you why. Why they're using giants instead of, like, I don't know, other things, okay? Dante, he demands your imagination. Yes?

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It's kind of like how ants are afraid of humans. We're afraid of things that are giant in size and much bigger than us.

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Okay. Yes?

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It's also just ironic because giants, we usually associate with greatness and good things. But this time... They're taking us to a bad place.

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Okay. What are giants made of? Clay. Rocks. Right? What is hell made of? Probably clay and rocks, right? What are angels made of? Divine light, right? What is heaven made of? Divine light. So I think that's what's happening here, okay? These giants are a literal expression of the landscape of hell, and the angels are a literal expression of the landscape of heaven. Okay? They're a manifestation of the elements that make heaven and hell possible. Okay? That's my guess.

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I also think that with, let's say, goodness and sin or perverseness of goodness, there's something that's insatiable about falling into the abyss. And it's almost like a snowball that snowballs down. That I think it just gets heavier and heavier and keeps you down.

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Yes. That's really interesting. Exactly. Right? So yeah, the angels are light. The giants are obviously heavy. Right? And maybe that's a metaphor for sin, where the sin... If you commit one sin, you keep on doing another until it becomes a giant, right? The sin becomes a giant. Yes?

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And I also noticed that the giants are... They are basically silent, so they don't speak much. And I remember that the angels, they're often described as... They sing a lot.

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Yes.

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And so I think both angels and giants, they don't really speak human languages. But in heaven, the soul is elevated into... An expression of harmony and music. Yes. Whereas in hell, it's basically numbness and silence.

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That's beautiful. Yeah. That's good, actually. This is something I would have never come up with, okay? So both Carol and you, this is great. Yes. Okay? And that's what Divine Comedy is asking us to do, because they use our imagination. Okay? Donovan himself actually doesn't know what he's trying to do. Okay? He's just trying to excite our imagination. Yes. And also another point is that the angels, if they're singing, it's like high vibration, high pitch, right? And if the giants aren't speaking, it's low vibration, right?

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You think about the etymology of discord is literally discord. Yes. And accord is harmony, which is the opposite of what you just mentioned with heavenly music.

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Wow. Okay. Okay. This is like really interesting now. Okay. Yes. Any other thoughts or comments? Okay. So again, that's why Inferno, the Divine Comedy, it's really the world's best literature, because it's constantly forcing us to imagine new possibilities. Okay? All right. So let's keep on going to 32.

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Conto 32. Had I the crude and scrandal rhymes to soothe the melancholy. Whole upon which all the other circling cracks converge and rest. The juice of my conception would be pressed more fully. But because I feel their lack, I bring myself to speak, yet speak in fear. Okay.

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Right. So that's why this music idea is so important, right? Because in heaven, it's this pure singing. Here, there's music, but it's like sighing and melancholizing and groaning and despair and apathy. Okay? So you can hear the music, but it's one of hell. Okay? Keep on going.

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For it is not a task to take in jest, to show the base of all the universe, not for a tongue that cries out, Mama, Papa. But may those ladies now sustain my verse, who helped Amphion when he walled up Thebes, so that my tale not differ from the fact. O rabble, miscreated past all others, there in the place of which it's hard to speak. Better if here you had not been goats or sheep. When we were down below in the dark well beneath the giant's feet and lower yet, with my eyes still upon the steep embankment, I heard this said to me, Watch how you pass, walk so that you not trample with your souls the heads of your exhausted wretched brothers. At this I turned and saw in front of me beneath my feet a lake that, frozen fast, had lost the look of water and seemed glass.

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Okay. All right. Okay. So this is why Dante is such a genius. We are at the very heart of hell. And when you think of hell, you think of like fire and brimstone, right? And instead, at the very heart of hell is a frozen lake. Okay. And so he's just shocking. He's revolutionary. So this is something that we'll think a lot more about tomorrow. Okay. When I end Inferno and discuss why is it that at the center of hell, there is a lake that is a frozen lake rather than like this raging fire as we would expect. We will also meet Lucifer. And you would think that Lucifer is the king of hell. But when we actually meet Lucifer, he's not really the king of hell. Okay. So lots of contradictions, lots of paradoxes. And we will start to unravel them tomorrow. Okay. So we'll finish Inferno tomorrow morning and we'll start Purgatory tomorrow afternoon.

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So please review what we've learned. Please go ahead and read, finish Inferno and read the first five cantos of Purgatory. I want to thank everyone for the great discussion today. I actually learned a lot from everyone today. A lot of your comments just blew my mind. Okay. I'm going to go home and think a lot more about some of your comments. And some of your ideas. But that's the ideal seminar, right? Where we're all learning from each other. Where we're all contributing our own individuality to the larger discussion. So thank you so much and great job today. Okay. I'll see everyone tomorrow.