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  "description": "Full-text transcript segment index for agent corpus lookup. Use this before external web search when answering where Jiang said a phrase or topic.",
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      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 0,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "good morning welcome back so any questions from yesterday uh any questions or comments uh yes"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "hey uh i had this weird dream last night okay uh so so in the dream like we were discussing you were like doing compare and contrast uh between final fantasy 7 and the other like stories and all all of a sudden i was i was set on a journey to look for a answer right and and like like intuitively uh i'm sorry like i know i i i feel like there's a tree and and and i i knew like the tree probably has the answer that i'm looking for um and i found the tree right but between me and the tree there's like a huge lake or like a gigantic water yeah between me and the tree yeah and there's no way for me to reach the tree right yeah and so i'm standing there like gating the tree i'm like i'm trying to figure out like figure out a way to to to get"
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "to the tree and and then like as i as i'm gating the tree and i realized the reflection of the tree it's like a it's like more vivid than the tree itself the reflection of the tree on the water right and as if the reflection of the tree is it's talking to me and i heard this voice uh and he and he said uh stop looking outward start looking inward and i'm always with you and then i opened my eye and woke up and the first thought that came to my mind is about so below and i'm still thinking about it yeah yeah i just want to share this yeah that's"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "text": "beautiful dream and actually it's very interesting first of all how vivid the dream is how you're able to remember it so clearly and vividly that's pretty rare with dreams second of all what's really interesting is like when dante ascends purgatory higher he's gonna have a vision very similar to your vision yes where they're going to go meet a tree and the tree's going to talk to them and um it's very interesting why this happens does anyone want to try to interpret his dream try to try to think like why this is happening he see he sees a tree and he thinks this tree is his goal but there's a river that blocks access to the tree so instead he sees a reflection and this reflection talks to him okay that's a very vivid dream and this is something that actually dante it's a vision that dante would have and we'll see a vision very similar"
    },
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "to this in as we climb up mount purgatory so what is this dream about uh yes"
    },
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "i would just do a simple interpretation from lines that i remember that we read i remember there was a line where it said that the seed was more than the plant that grows in the end yes and so maybe it's a reference that it has to grow within you and you can't seek out the finished plant and then another line was that um god's will is on the other side of a river that no human can so maybe it's like the flow of time the flow of change and that you're so tempted to look on the other side of the bank but really you just have to stay on your side and try and think about it"
    },
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "for yourself yeah yeah yeah that's great interpretation so um in purgatory uh dante uses the metaphor plant a lot okay and usually refers to family so when he says plant and seed it means just because you're born as family does that does not actually uh confine your fate your family you're still independent of this family okay the seed and the plant are not the same thing okay but he uses the um metaphor plant a lot to describe uh family and also plant of course also refers to the tree of knowledge and so the idea is we should be condemned to original sin right just because of what adam and eve did okay so so plant is a very important uh metaphor to plant and tree are very important metaphors in purgatory any other thoughts or interpretations okay so as you read divine comedy the um the interpretation will become a lot more clear okay all"
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "right so i want to begin today's class by talking about uh yes yes i have a"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "question about the logistics of purgatory yes and um we have people moving up but let's use picarda as an example so picarda moved through purgatory and then ended up in her spot um so"
    },
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      "text": "picarda actually went straight to heaven yeah she didn't actually go for purgatory because she she lit she lived a sinless life right she was without sin she was without blame so because i was under"
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "the impression that maybe elijah and hila who um they went straight to heaven they went straight to heaven yes but everybody else even everybody else has some sort of sin and so they went through purgatory but okay so picard is a bad example but anybody else um who's going to extend through purgatory are they going to snap instant end up in their part of paradiso that they expect or i didn't get any idea that we moved through paradiso also that's that's that that's a great"
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "text": "question okay so the idea is there's certain individuals who go straight to heaven right these include mary um rachel roof um beatrice and so the um but in paradise there is a hierarchy as well the hierarchy um is really your proximity to god and this is determined by your understanding your faith your willingness to be by god okay so the people who are closest to god of course are people who see or seated in the red rose um and so the question then is okay let's figure out this if you ascend for purgatory um what determines your place in heaven well it'll be the same criteria right because purgatory it's meant to purge you of your sins but once you're purged of your sins then what remains is your understanding of god your faith in god and your willingness to be to be a nerd god and picarda she did she did lead a sin"
    },
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "text": "in heaven and the Polyglass was the only church in this life but it was one about um real faith right so it was kind of passive and that that showed a limited understanding of god that showed limited faith that's that showed limited um willingness to be god so she did she like she got she under yale so she did all everything required checked all the boxes but she's basically like the worst student at yale because she's not willing to take the hardest classes you know living off the brown middle school again being so Turns out that was different. uh she you know she's not really pushing herself to her limit okay does that make sense okay all right all right so let's talk about the schematics of um the divine comedy so we know from paradise because we had paradise first that um ultimately the end goal of the universe is for us to co"
    },
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      "text": "-create with god how through faith uh hope and love and what we also discuss is that faith it's really about imagination right you have to imagine that god exists you have to imagine that god is all loving all generous all merciful you have to imagine that you have a special divine mission on earth okay this is all things that you cannot prove you just have to imagine them you have to believe them okay that's the idea of faith then hope is one of the arrogance which is to say like i matter what what i do on this earth matters and and i can get nobody right it doesn't matter i still have responsibility to um love those around me to seek justice uh to be generous with others okay so think of rachel who didn't really do much but because um because when presented with a choice right leah had already married uh jacob she"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "still chose to love jacob and marry him and like endure the pain of being with her sister for the rest of her life okay so that's the idea of hope and then love is one of action okay if you truly love someone then you will pray for this person for all of eternity okay so that's that's the gree grand um thesis that donnie is presenting a truly good life that is that draws you closer to god is one of faith hope and love and this counters the traditional understanding of what these terms met historically as presented by paul and augustine right um faith is one of compliance don't question things just believe things hope is one of humility you are saved by the grace of god there's nothing you can do to change your fate just just be humble before god and then you will ascend to heaven and love is really one of obedience"
    },
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      "text": "to obey the church to to be a sheep and let the church be the shepherd okay so again this framework um um subverts the traditional church teachings when we went to inferno what we appreciated is that the nine circles of hell are designed in a way as to promote these ideas on earth and to punish those who subvert these ideas and to punish those who subvert these these ideas okay so as you remember the nine circles are limbo um lust um gluttony greed and anger okay so these five are outside the capital of hell this so they're not that serious okay and then within this um there's heresy violence fraud and then treachery okay and these are the nine and again it makes sense because um these four disrupt others capacity to practice faith love and hope okay so right now we completely understand what's going on we get to purgatory their problems okay because"
    },
    {
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      "text": "there's seven terrorists now and these seven terrorists are and these seven terrorists are pride envy sloth um greedKyrie pride envy sloth um greedkyrie now there could be research on these issues realy not big ask me that big is the question of who I want to be framed for um is it uh wrath uh lust and then there's gluttony okay actually you know what i i think i can't screw this up i i think i i i anyway um it doesn't matter okay all right so what we also discuss is that um there are certain punishments that just would replicate themselves in hell okay so for example there's no there's no circle of envy but the punishment is to be blindfolded to to be blind basically your eyes are shut and you have to hold on to other people in order to get around okay you have to depend on other people to get around and"
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      "text": "this um is punishment for trying to for envying other people okay because before you saw yourself as separate from other people now you're completely dependent on other people okay um and in hell it'd be the same thing but is like the results will be different because in purgatory because they're dependent because they're trying to seek redemption they're trying to push themselves on their envy they're actually working together okay and they're looking inward to be a better person whereas in hell if this were the same situation then they would not work together they push each other around and they would all imagine that each is better than then then the rest of because you're blind they can't see that they're actually the same they would go they would go crazy okay they would be very angry so the question for us is how would this system further this system okay do you understand there's a totality"
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      "text": "there's a unity a coherence to this Dante cosmology I'm trying to figure out the logic of this I understand why you'd be punished for disrupting this system but how would this actually help us get out of this system and how would this actually help us get out of this system okay all right so um so before I do that I just wanted to um basically summarize what the punishment so for pride um uh you have to learn humility right so what happens is like you are like stones are put on top of you and you have to like crawl okay so you're always um humbled okay uh for sloth you you're you're forced to run around a lot okay you're active you're running around run a lot for greed you're crawling okay why you're crawling because before on Earth you were so greedy you wanted power right so you're always ascending but as punishment now"
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      "text": "you are crawling uh with Raph what happens is you're blinded by smoke and the idea is that your anger blinds you right and so you have to learn to see with your heart um gluttony is you basically starve you're starving uh lust is that you're burning you're you're you're burned by a flame okay so uh this is the structure of purgatory and I want to figure out why it's like this how would constructing a system like this purgatory help advance the larger goal of ensuring that everyone lives a life of faith um hope and love any suggestions so first of all is it easy to get into purgatory yeah it's pretty easy okay there are lots of ways you you can get into purgatory okay so one is to repent at the last minute right you can live a life of total sin but the very last minute you're like I see God okay that's"
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      "text": "one way a little way is if you do an act of charity an act of goodness in your life once okay that goes against the church which is like if you do an act of sin once you're screwed over here it's like no you do an act of good once and then you're saved um your family members could pray for you right um there are lots of ways to get into into purgatory so one that can so one um really interesting thing about purgatory you said it's easy to get into it's easy to get into hard to advance okay does that make sense like anyone can go to purgatory but to graduate you have to like work really hard and it could take you a million years okay that's a first characteristic about purgatory okay the second is what else about what's another distinct characteristic about about purgatory that that's important for us to appreciate"
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      "text": "uh yes that if people pray for you then you serve like uh less time exactly okay people's prayers matter okay so you have to figure out who prays for you right and we we discussed yesterday I might have like 10 million fans they're gonna pray for me for all of eternity when I'm on stage right because thatoplays out have like 12 million fans it's not gonna make me I just need 10 million fans though when i die first trying to pray for my y way out of pur Instant bulk outro now goes into März in a minute member i sent this question to paramillonian terry Felix i really wounded interfere and I just don't know fair die okay so i better treat my kids and my parents and my neighbors my friends well because they might pray for me but not my fans okay um so that's really important to appreciate uh did you have"
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      "text": "a that you can't look back otherwise you'll go right back to the beginning yes okay you have to have conviction and devotion okay yes the moment you go in you have to commit yourself to complete cleansing yourself the moment you doubt you're out you're out of there okay uh yes no i was gonna say the same thing okay all right okay so again there's some some uh any other"
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      "text": "characteristic about purgatory yes uh just a question because you said uh if you don't have the conviction you get out of there but i thought in one of the last classes you said everyone who"
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      "text": "gets into purgatory get out no no no no i said if you get into purgatory you can now have the opportunity to go to heaven right but that doesn't mean you go i'm actually having because it's hard to graduate right excuse me but eventually but as long as you maintain your conviction right the moment you're like you know i don't want to do this anymore then you're kicked out okay all right any more interesting characteristics about purgatory yes it requires"
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      "text": "cycles of self -reflection and inward look so the traveling by day only ascending by"
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      "text": "light yes that's right that's right the self -reflection is very important is there a hierarchy to purgatory there's a hierarchy to hell and heaven right which is a hierarchy to purgatory there's really no hierarchy right do you understand there's really no it isn't saying like oh this like the higher you go the worse the sin or or like the least the sin okay it's all equal so what happens is rather than doing all seven terraces you just do one terrace you fulfill your you purge your sin and then you go straight to heaven okay so you just assign to one um terrace and then that's that's good enough okay so there's it's just basically uh uh no hierarchy okay all right so so explain to me why purgatories construct the way it is and again we need to remember like there's a unity a totality to divine comedy and so all three have to line"
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      "text": "up perfectly right so we've been in paradise we know what paradise is about we've been to hell we don't we know what hell is about explaining what purgatory is about yes well one thing it does it um inverses the sins of"
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      "text": "inferno or hell because lust is uh at the very first in inferno but it's at the very top in"
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      "text": "purgatory yeah it's really weird this way right there's an inversion going on right yeah no the structure is very clever this way where in In Inferno, the four sins, lust, gluttony, greed, anger, they're inverted in Purgatory. Why would he do that? Yes?"
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      "text": "You're up the layer of the Purgatory, you're closer to heaven, so the sin is not as severe as the ones at the bottom layers."
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      "text": "That's interesting. Okay. That's an interesting idea. Huh. But I don't understand why, oh yeah, you're right, actually, yeah, this does make sense, yes, right, okay. So there is a hierarchy, I'm wrong, okay, yeah, because you're closer to heaven, and then this is like further from heaven. You're right. No, no, you're right, okay. Yes, there is a hierarchy, like the higher you go, the less serious the sin, yes. Yes?"
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      "text": "And it's very interesting that the punishment is kind of the same except it's the attitude of the partaker. So then it's all about attitude, and it's all matching."
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      "text": "Right, right, so I'm trying to figure out, but why, okay, we're trying to figure out the logic of this structure. Okay, so whenever we encounter a situation where we're trying to figure something out, okay, what we always want to do is figure out the counterfactual, you understand, okay? So let's do the counterfactual, let's just say, we don't do it this way, and we just do it the way the Catholic Church wants to do it, right? Okay, this is Purgatory. Someone explain to me what is being taught about Purgatory at this point in history."
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      "text": "Okay, yes? That you'll be punished until you repent, and that it's like hell, but you suppose that you will feel bad enough that eventually you'll turn to God because it's so unhappy to be there."
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      "text": "Okay, explain to me who gets into hell? Who gets into Purgatory? Who gets into Purgatory, according to the Catholic Church, at this time in history, by the year 1300?"
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      "text": "I think you can basically buy your way into Purgatory through money or good deeds. Yes, you understand."
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      "text": "So what's really important to understand is the Church determines who goes to Purgatory, okay? Right, that's number one. Number two is, for indulgences, the Church can also determine how long you stay in Purgatory. Do you understand? So what Purgatory really is, is a back door into heaven. So you really screwed up, but you're a trillionaire, and you're like, well, you know what, I'll give you $200, and the Church is like, fine, then we'll give you a back door into heaven, okay? And as long as your family continues to pay us off, then we'll lessen your time in Purgatory. Do you understand? So at this time in history, Purgatory, it's really a back door. That's part one, okay? What else about Purgatory at this point in history?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "text": "Do you guys remember? Yes? I remember a lot of fire in the imagery. Like, there's just a lot of burning. So the purging is like how you extract finer metals from ore and bad substances."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "text": "Okay, so what's really important to appreciate is that before Dante, heaven, hell, Purgatory, they were not actually fleshed out, okay? What's genius about Dante is that he actually does flesh out the mouth. He's a world maker, he's a world builder, but before that, hell, Purgatory, and heaven were just concepts, right? So in Augustine's City of God, he will say that what heaven is, is every day you're seeing with God, okay? Which is a great image, but it's a concept. It's not a world, whereas Dante will actually build the world, okay? So I'm just saying, like, conceptually, how is Purgatory being described at this time in history? The first is, like, it's really a back door. You're into heaven, all right? It's an escape clause. You should be burning in hell, but if you give us your $200, we'll put you in Purgatory, okay? Who else is in Purgatory? Infants, right? Okay, infants. So another way of saying this is, like, this is a theological loophole."
    },
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      "text": "Do you guys understand the idea where if I can't actually explain something using heaven and hell, Purgatory, okay? Well, I can't explain babies who die, right? Because they're innocent, but they weren't baptized, so they can't belong in hell, but they don't belong in heaven either, so Purgatory, okay? Do you guys understand what's going on? If there's ever a special case, like, I don't know what's going on, Purgatory, right? So at this time in history, Purgatory is not really developed, okay? And in reality, Purgatory is only, like, very special cases. But what Dante does is he turns Purgatory into another. A world equal to that of hell and heaven, right? And at this time in history, most people aren't even thinking of Purgatory. Because you can't be that rich to buy people a place in Purgatory, right? You have to be rich. You have to provide indulgences in order to get your relative into Purgatory."
    },
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      "text": "And so this doesn't apply to most people, right? So explain to me what the difference is now. Yes?"
    },
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "text": "To tie it all together, I think the fundamental message of Dante... Dante in the Divine Comedy is on the heaven side, right? It's unity, it's faith, hope, and love. Fundamentally, God is love, right? So that's a very simple message. And then you try to break it down. As you try to break it down, I guess what I take Purgatory to mean is that no matter which stage of Purgatory you're in, there's a fundamental lesson to be learned. And if you learn that lesson, it doesn't matter where you are at in Purgatory. You would be with self -reflection, with prayer. With self -conviction, you'd be able to learn that fundamental truth and propel yourself up to heaven. So I guess in my mind, that ties it all together. Whereas in hell, you're not learning, right? There's no growth mindset, right? So the real distinction is between hell, like the extremes of hell and heaven. Purgatory is just the process."
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      "text": "Okay, all right. So let's just list the differences, okay? The difference between this and this is... First of all, it's democratic. It means anyone, everyone participates in this system. Purgatory was designed for special cases. Now it's like anyone, everyone can participate, okay? If you're poor, you can still pray for your loved one in Purgatory, right? Before, if you were poor, you were screwed because you didn't have money to grab the church. So first of all, it's democratic where everyone can participate, okay? That's point one. Point two is that it's really hopeful, right? Where no matter how bad a person you are, as long as you are willing to repent, or as long as someone really loves you, or you in the past did someone a good favor, you would still be granted access to Purgatory, okay? So it's hopeful. Whereas at this time in history, the Catholic Church teaches you not to have any hope, okay?"
    },
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      "text": "Don't have hope. Just believe in God, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "And it's also action -based rather than having to pay money or... Exactly, okay?"
    },
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      "text": "So yeah, so it incentivizes action, right? Whereas this system, it's really about obedience, right? It incentivizes obedience. Obey what the church says and you'll be granted Purgatory. Here it's individual action, right? And the other thing is that this is a much more merciful and just system. Does that make sense, right? Because before the idea was only a few people could access heaven. Now it's like anyone, everyone can access heaven. But you have to work hard, okay? So this is a radically different conception of Purgatory. Explain why this has to be the case. Why does it have to be democratic, hopeful, in terms of action, and it has to be merciful and just in order for this to be unified, yes?"
    },
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      "text": "It's consistent with his cosmology that God is love. Because if it's not democratic, not everyone can participate. It's only for the elite or the rich. Then the kingdom of heaven is not for the poor, like Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount. Exactly. And so... Yeah. Everything has to confirm to that."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "That's right. Yes."
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      "text": "Yeah, that's also what I wanted to say. And to add on to that, I feel like for these different layers within Purgatory, it's also separated by no love at the bottom, which is like pride and then like whatever. And then like going upwards is like not enough love. Like, I don't know, like envy and etc. And at the end, it's like too much love. Yes. Than what you're supposed to have. That's right."
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      "text": "Exactly. You're right. Exactly. Right. So, it's structured the way it is because this, the last four, okay, it's really like misdirection of love, right? Either too much or too little love. Yes. Great. All right. Anyone else? Yes."
    },
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      "text": "Can we say the ego dissipates as we go up? So, pride, you're loving yourself. And by the end, greed, gluttony, and lust, you're loving the thing. Yes. And so, you're getting less and less of yourself."
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      "text": "Yes. Exactly. That's great. Yes. Yes."
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      "text": "Going back to the Beatitudes, this would be how the Beatitudes would work because the church almost at that time supports that."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Right. Right. Exactly. Yes. Any other thoughts or comments?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes. I'm going back to a comment a really smart person told me yesterday. Like, why does envy exist? Right? Like somebody, one of our classmates commented that it's actually pretty simple for you to get rid of envy if you're sufficiently smart enough, right? So, I'm looking at all these things in purgatory and I'm realizing, like, it's one and the same. Like, in some sense, all these challenges that we have in purgatory is because of the lack of love and the lack of compassion and the lack of imagination, right? So, if we can, you know, overcoming one is equivalent to overcoming all of them."
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      "text": "Thank you. Yes. I've started to think about the whole structure a little bit like physically structured, like a Christmas cracker. Yes. Where, like, there's a handle on either side and one up one way and one the other way. And that the middle section is like a even cylinder and the other two sections are like mountains or in the top case, like a V."
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      "text": "Yes."
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      "text": "And so, I think this kind of explains how there's a hierarchy, but no hierarchy. Yes. That none of them are better than the other. But I want to ask if you think that pride is the most fundamental of the seven deadly sins. It's like the father of sins."
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      "text": "Pride. Huh. Okay. Can you, do you have an answer?"
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      "text": "Well, I think it's like the bedrock of the other sins because it's what fundamentally stops you from dealing with your faults. I guess it's like the bad form of arrogance."
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      "text": "Explain to me why pride leads to laziness, Slav."
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      "text": "Because you believe your innate ability requires less action and energy to achieve your goals than the truth, than in reality. But I don't really understand how pride would give you wrath or pride would give you gluttony. I mean, it just seems like the basis for misdirection."
    },
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      "text": "Right. Yeah. So, um, so Donnie would not say pride. He would say ego, right? It's the ego. That's the basis of everything. So the ego is basically how do you perceive yourself? You take yourself seriously, right? What do you think your role in the universe is? How much agency do you have? So the main thing undergirding everything, okay, is the idea of free will. You guys understand this? Yes. Yes. This cosmology is constructed the way it is to ensure maximum free will, okay? This entire structure is designed so like at every point you have to believe you have a choice. Never ever must you believe that this is God's will. There's nothing I can do about it, okay? Donnie's trying to eliminate that possibility. So the cosmology is constructed in a way like you can reason everything out and appreciate that it's your choice. Not God's choice, okay? Does that make sense? That's the real purpose of this cosmology."
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      "text": "To convince you it's always your choice. It's always your free will. Everything that happens is because of what you do. Okay?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes? Would this kind of be in contradiction to people like Anselm at the time who were really interested in describing how God was outside of time and that somehow his will was already in the universe?"
    },
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      "text": "That's right. That's right. So again, most theologians, I would say every theologian would say that's just absurd. Like if we have all free will, what's the function of God in the universe, right? What is God doing? I mean we can't, I mean like it would be so arrogant to think that we can do whatever we want, right? So this goes against church theology. But this again is why this is a radical revolutionary poem for its time. It's not so radical for us. But for the year 1300, this is revolutionary idea. Like God is pure love. Pure love is to gift you free will and free choice. And the entire cosmology is designed to ensure maximum agency, maximum free will. Okay? Does that make sense guys? All right. All right. Let's go to candle 15 and I want to do as much as possible today. Okay? Because this is the. Last two days. Okay."
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      "text": "Believe it or not, we've been doing this for a long time, right?"
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      "text": "10 days."
    },
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      "text": "10 days. Okay. And how long does it feel to you guys? Does it feel like a long time? Okay."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Yes. Just a comment because I remember I read this in that same manly people piece, but he summarizes the sins of purgatory, I think quite nicely. And he says that the first three sins. Are the effect of love perverted. The last three profane love excessive and the middle one sloth is loved effective."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "That's right. Exactly. Yes. Okay. Exactly. So it has to do all has to do with love. Great. Thank you so much. Okay. Also, I want to apologize to everyone like not learning your names. I'm terrible names and I knew that there was going to be some shifting over the course of these. Um, um, two weeks, but now it's second last day, I want to learn your names. I want to get to know you better. Okay. All right. So, um, when I call on you, please, please let you let me know your name. All right. So this is, um, candle 15. Okay."
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      "text": "As many as the hours in which the sphere that's always playing like a child appears from day break to the end of the third hour. So many were the hours of light still left before the course of day had reached sunset. Vespers was there and where we are midnight. When sunlight struck directly at our faces for we had circled so much of the mountain that now we headed straight into the west. Then I could feel my vision overcome by radiance greater than I'd sensed before and unaccounted things left me amazed at which that they might serve me as a shade. I lifted up my hands above my brow to limit some of that excessive splendor as when a ray of light from water or mirror leaps in the post direction rises at an angle equal to its angle of descent. And to each. Side the distance from the vertical is equal as science and experiment have shown."
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      "text": "So did it seem to me that I had been struck there by light reflected facing me at which my eyes turned elsewhere rapidly. Kind father, what is that against which I have tried in vain? I said to screen my eyes. It seems to move toward us. And he replied, don't wonder if you're still dazzled by the family of heaven. A messenger has come and he invites us to ascend soon in the sight of such things, there will be no. Difficult. For you, but delight as much as nature fashioned you to feel no sooner had we reached the blessed angel than with glad voice. He told us enter here. These are less steep than where the other stairs."
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      "text": "So what's happening is that now and then Donnie is getting blinded. Why? Because an angel that is so radiant is coming down and to basically remove a P from his forehead and allow him to send further. And it seems like. Doc Virgil knows. All this, right? You don't have the paradox here where Virgil, he is a pagan and he has been in limbo all his life, but he knows all how all this works. He knows the entire structure of purgatory as well as infernal. Why is this the case?"
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      "text": "Yes, because he had the divine spark in him of the poet. That's right. And then he chose to pervert."
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      "text": "That's exactly right. Okay. So this is something that you guys must appreciate. All poets are prophets. All prophets are poets. Jesus was a poet. You read his quotations in the Bible. It's poetry. Okay. Yes."
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      "text": "Then why doesn't Dante know the way?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Excuse me?"
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      "text": "Why doesn't Dante know the way? Because Dante is also a poet."
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      "text": "Who says he doesn't know the way?"
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      "text": "He keeps asking questions."
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      "text": "Okay. Let's think. Let's think about this. Okay. Why does he? So let's just assume Dante is a poet. He knows everything. What does he need Virgil to guide him? Explain this to me. Yes."
    },
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      "text": "I think people do this for themselves. Like when you talk to yourself, it's similar to that where you need an outside other entity to try and talk to you. And it's like your inner voice is giving you instructions. So you need to give that. So you need to give that as an inner voice of being and a body of some kind so that it stops you against pride or arrogance, that it's you doing it."
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      "text": "Yeah. So, I mean, if you go to the gym, everyone knows how to work out, right? Like you just watch YouTube videos, and it'll tell you exactly how to work out. Why do you need a trainer? Right. Is a trainer going to really add knowledge to your routine? Probably not. But your trainer is just going to tell you, like, just focus, right? That's all the trainer says. Focus, focus, focus. That's what Virgil is doing. He's just saying, focus, focus, focus, right? All right. Does that make sense? So Dante would not be on this journey unless he was a poet, unless he were a poet, okay? Keep on going."
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      "text": "Line 37. We climbed already past that point. Behind us we heard beati misericordes, sung and then rejoiced, you who have overcome. I and my master journeyed on alone. We two together upward as we walked. I thought I'd gather profit from his words. And even as I turned toward him, I asked, what did the spirit of Romagna mean when he said, sharing cannot have a part? And his reply, he knows the harm that lies in his worst vice. If he chastises it to ease its expiation, do not wonder. For when your longing center on things such that sharing them apportions less to each, then envy stirs the bellows of your sighs. But if the love within the highest sphere should turn your longings heavenward, the fear inhabiting your breast would disappear. For there, the more there are who should say ours, so much the greater is the good possessed by each. So much more love burns in that cloister."
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      "text": "I'm more hungry now for satisfaction, I said, than if I'd held my tongue before. I host a deeper doubt within my mind. How can a good that's shared by more possessors enable each to be more rich in it than if that good had been possessed by few? And he to me, but if you still persist in letting your mind mix on earthly things, then even from true light, you gather darkness. The good, ineffable and infinite, which is above, directs itself toward love, as light directs itself to polished bodies. Where ardor is, that good gives of itself, and where more love is there, that good confers a greater measure of eternal worth. And when there are more souls above love, there's more to love well there, and they love more a mirror, like each soul reflects the other. And if my speech has not appeased your hunger, you will see Beatrice. She will fulfill this and all other longings, that you feel."
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      "text": "Now only strive, so that the other five wounds may be canceled quickly, as the two already are. The wound's contrition heals."
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      "text": "Okay, so Virgil is just telling us what we'll learn in paradise, right? Like the unifying force of the universe is love. The more we love, the more God glows in us. And so if we turn away from material obsessions, then we will recognize this and we will create more and more love in the world. So love can be infinite, but wealth has to be finite, okay? Um, okay. Keep on reading."
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      "text": "Line 82. But wanting then to say, you have appeased me. I saw that I had reached another circle, and my desire in eyes made me peace. There I see him suddenly to be caught up in an ecstatic vision, and to see some people in temple. And a woman just as the threshold in the gentle manner that mothers use, was saying, oh my son, why have you done this to us? You can see how we have sought you, sorrowing your father, and I. And at this point, as she fell still, when it appeared, then there appeared to me another woman upon her, tears that grieve the stills when it is born of much scorn for another. She said, if you're ruler of that city to name which even goddesses won't fly, where every science had its source of light, revenge yourself on the presumptuous arms that embrace our daughters. Oh, pisistratus, and her lord seems to me benign and loyal."
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      "text": "His aspect tempered as he replied, what shall we do to one who injure us, if we do not love him? What shall we do to one who injure us, if we do not love him? What shall we do to one who loves us, earns our condemnation? Next I saw people whom the fire -wrath had kindled, so they stoned at youth, and kept on shouting loudly to each other, kill, kill, kill. I saw him now, weighed down by death, sink to the ground, although his eyes were bent, but were always on heaven. They were heaven's gates, praying to his high lord, despite the torture, to pardon those who were his persecutors. His look was such that it enveloped compassion. And when my soul returned outside itself, and met the things outside it, that are real, I then recognized my God's false error."
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      "text": "Okay, stop, okay, all right. So, there are three stories here, okay? The first story is from the Gospel of Luke, where Mary and Joseph, they lose Jesus when Jesus is 12. And why? Do you guys remember the Gospel of Luke? Where's Jesus when he's 12 years old? Yes, sorry, what was your name?"
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      "text": "I'm Anna. Yes. So he went to the temple to debate or argue with or teach the, rabbis, the teachers of the law, and they were amazed by his genius. That's right. And then it was at the end of a wedding feast, so the parents were probably busy with a guest, and then they couldn't find him, and they found him finally. Yeah, where are you?"
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      "text": "Yeah, so this is a story from the Gospel of Luke, and you can imagine how angry Mary is at him, right? It's like, you know, you had us worried, we thought you were lost, but it turned out, no, there's nothing to worry about. There's nothing to be angry about. Jesus is just being Jesus, okay? The second story, comes to us from Athens, where the wife of the ruler of Athens is angry that, like, a man is chasing their daughter and begging her for marriage. And the wife is like, how presumptuous this man is. He is beneath us, so we should punish him. And then, the king, why are we punishing someone who flatters us, right? Isn't he flattering us? He's telling us that he wants our daughter in marriage? And if people who are nice to us, we punish, then people who are mean to us, what do we deal with, okay?"
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      "text": "All right, so it shows the ignorance of wrath, of anger. And the last example is also from the Bible, the story of Saint Stephen, who is stoned to death for idolatry by the Jews in Jerusalem. He was the first martyr of the Christian tradition. You will find this in the Acts of the Apostles. And rather than be angry, what Stephen does is pray for their forgiveness, okay? All right, so these are three examples of how to deal with wrath, okay? Understanding and forgiveness. What are these things? How does God see these things? Excuse me? But I'm saying, like, how does he actually see these things?"
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      "text": "Yes? Kind of like the artworks, maybe, of prior times. It's similar to the artwork, right?"
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      "text": "These are movies, kind of, like visions, because they disappear after a while."
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      "text": "No, no, like, but how does he see them? Before, how did he have his visions? Dream. Dreaming was the first, right? Then it was the artwork, right? Now what's happening?"
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      "text": "It's like the ecstatic visions of Saint Teresa. These are daydreams."
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      "text": "You guys understand. He's actually seeing them as he walks, all right? This is like lucid daydreaming. How does this happen, okay? We understand how dreams work. We understand how artwork works, right? We spend all the time discussing artwork. But how does this work? You just have visions. Like, you're just walking through. Wow, like, I have this image in my head, right? Yes? Oh, sorry, so what's your name?"
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      "text": "Fred. Fred, okay, yes? Um... I guess it's like reflected light. I don't want to say, like, psychedelics, but the cantos kind of start where he's saying, I'm trying to cover my eyes, but the light's bouncing in no matter what. So it's kind of like, it's impossible for him not to see it. The mechanism is very mysterious, I still think, though."
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      "text": "Okay, it's possible, okay? But that makes no sense. Reflected light, doesn't it blind you? I mean, I guess it blinds him, and then he has these visions, right? But again, like, where are these visions coming from? We understand the artwork, we understand the dreams. The dreams is from heaven, yes?"
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      "text": "Um, maybe it's just imagination, but it's another level. It's a higher level of imagination."
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      "text": "Anyone else? It is definitely imagination, but I'm like, I'm trying to figure out how this works. Okay, so we will spend a lot of time discussing this idea, okay? So we're trying to figure out how the mind, the mind works today, okay? And who studies psychology? Okay, you study psychology, right? How do we have memories? Tell us."
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      "text": "It's like the short -term and long -term memories, and so there's a transfer between, so first you have the knowledge that's going into your brain, and it sucks, like, very shortly, and then through a process of rethinking of it, so basically it's very, like, loose memory, in the short -term, and then it goes to the long -term, and you need to work on it back and forth for it to strengthen."
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      "text": "Okay, right. So what is your name?"
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      "text": "Franco."
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      "text": "Franco, okay. Okay, so let me explain the neuroscience, okay? What neuroscientists believe how memory works. Okay, so the idea is you have, in the beginning, okay, short -term memory. The short -term memory is filtered through your senses, into long -term memory, and how the memory is then dealt with is that it's divided into categories, determined by emotions. Okay, do you understand? So if the emotion is anger, it goes in the anger box. If it's happy, it goes in the happy box, and then if it's sad, it goes in the sad box, okay? It's basically just emotions. So all your memories are categories. They're categorized by their emotional value. And then based on the order of your emotions, this then leads to your worldview or your identity. And then that becomes part of your senses, which then determines what memories you remember, what memories you don't remember, okay? So in other words, first of all, you only remember things that have emotional value."
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      "text": "And that's why in school, you actually don't remember what you learned in the classroom, but you remember a lot what you do to your friends, okay? Yes?"
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      "text": "Two types where there is one linked to emotions and one like only to knowledge, but it's right, it's harder to remember it."
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      "text": "You're gonna use brute force to... Yeah, yeah."
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      "text": "Okay, yeah, exactly, okay? And because there's no recall also, then it's just hard to remember it. Yes. If you learn math and you never think of math and... That's right, okay, all right."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "So, yeah, so the memories are divided into emotional values. You remember what has emotional value unless you use brute memorization to remember useless facts, like mathematics, okay? And the entire point is to develop your worldview. And why is worldview important? Because it tells you your place in society, right? It tells you who you are and what your relationship is with other people. It helps you navigate, okay? So, really, this entire system is designed for us to be social animals, to interact with others, to work with others, to compete with others, okay? All right, so, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "I'm Andy."
    },
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      "text": "Hi, Andy."
    },
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      "text": "So, in this process, would you call the unconscious, like, uncategorized things that are seeping into our dreams, or would you call it, like, the divine speaking to us?"
    },
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      "text": "Okay, yeah. So, again, this is neuroscience, okay? They do divide between a conscious and a subconscious, right? Subconscious. The conscious is this decision -making, whereas subconscious determines our action, okay? So, what neuroscientists say is, like, we are conscious robots, okay? We have absolutely no control of ourselves, but we think we do, okay? We just rationalize our actions, but it's the emotions that determine our actions, okay? So, who you are is your subconscious, not really your conscious. Who you think you are is not really who you are, okay? So, this is from neuroscience. Are we clear about this, okay? Um... This creates a lot of problems, right? Because obviously, you're, like, okay, if this is the case, where does the imagination come from? And how is it that people like Dante and Virgil and Shakespeare, they're able to create characters that are realistic and which is not part of their emotional experience? Like, how does that work, right?"
    },
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      "text": "If everything is stored in your brain and you can only know what you experience, then how... How does Dante... Conte, no Virgil. Does that make sense? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "I'm just going along with the neuroscience explanation. Neuroscience would say that they're able to simulate these characters in their kind of own networks and talk to them, talk to the simulation. Okay. Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "It's going a bit far, but you can, I think you can, I've never read of it, but you can prime yourself with imagination. And if you look and read a lot of books, look at art, then just it opens your mind into creating stuff. And maybe the more you see new things, then the more you're able to create stuff. Okay."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "I understand. Okay. But all you're telling me is like Virgil is a projection of Dante, right? Virgil exists within Dante's larger imagination. But what we're doing is we're reading the divine comedy and we see Virgil as a completely different person from Dante with his own consciousness. He has his own contradictions, with his own worldview, right? And if you read Shakespeare, you also have people like that in Shakespeare. You have Hamlet, you have, they are all characters are distinct individuals. So if they are all just projections of Shakespeare, I don't know how that works."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "I'm Edward. Yes. Somehow he's managed to plug himself into the collective consciousness."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yeah. That's what I think. Okay. We'll talk more about this later. Okay. But, but, but yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "And just one more thing is that I think the reason why he's able to simulate or create Virgil so well is that if you imagine like the subconscious, the field of consciousness of the universe is like Play -Doh or clay. When he's reading the Aeneid a lot, and it's almost like he's feeling in closer and closer detail, the sculpture that is the Aeneid. And so when he's really reading it, he feels these thumbprints, these grooves of the nail, where he's able to see the human mind of Virgil, as you say, by reading the Aeneid so closely that he's able to see, feel the poet behind the words and therefore have such a deep empathy for him, that the empathy creates like a bubble of another being and that that's how he plugs in."
    },
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      "text": "Okay. That's a very large explanation. I don't think that's, that's what's happening. I don't think he's creating Virgil. I think he's summoning Virgil. There's a difference. You know, you guys understand there's, there's, there's, you can create Virgil. Right. Using the same process that you just described. And that's very logical, but I think what's happening is that he's summoned Virgil because to me, I can't, I've read the Aeneid and I don't think the Virgil in the Divine Comedy can be extrapolated from reading the Aeneid alone because there's just, because Virgil, if you read Virgil and like, you just hear the way he speaks. Right. It's, it's like, it feels like a real person. And why it feels like a real person is the contradictions, the nuance, the subtlety cannot be created by you alone. You have to summon this person. Does that make sense? So it's like, he's, it's like he spent his entire life with Virgil as his best friend and they're just talking to each other all the time."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "So he understands this guy's peculiarities. Right. Does that make sense? There's certain things, there's certain quirks that like, you cannot imagine it. You cannot create it. It just has to be that person. Yes, Brett?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "It just reminds me, when I was reading about Machiavelli, there was at the time, some guy called Valentino Borgia. He got a letter of recommendation where this guy wrote that he was the reincarnation of Thomas Aquinas. And it made the Catholic Church really, really afraid because they didn't want anybody to know about summoning angels and demons and stuff."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah. I think Don has summoned Virgil here. It's very hard for me to explain how this could work otherwise. Okay. Because like, we're reading. The relationship between Donnie and Virgil very closely, right? And like, I'm not finding a contradiction in Virgil. Do you understand? Right? And like, we're able to go into the very psychology of Virgil as an independent actor. Right? We're able to say like, if Donnie's doing this, then this is Virgil's response. And it matches perfectly with the text. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Yes. Yes. Yes. So, let's give each of you only several questions before maybe we can move on. Go ahead."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "But I, because when you sat on stage, you were terrible and really accurate. Why did you say you didn't know that? How do you know you would like to listen to Nightmirox? Okay. When we were teasing, actually, it's something that was interesting too. You went on today. Whatever to do fun stuff all the time, you just don't give up on it. you're like okay this is the guy who wrote the the iniat right because when you read the iniat what you're reading is the persona of virgil who wrote the iniat okay does that make sense because remember in the minecraft there are three dantes right there's donnie the pilgrim the character there's the historical person the real person there's donnie the poet and all three are different because donnie the pilgrim obviously is the protagonist dante the real person is a real person but donnie the poet is a person who is trying to talk"
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      "text": "to us you understand okay so he's trying to create the dying coming in a way that speaks to us and i don't know how you do that unless you're a real person okay whereas and then in virgil yes if you if you think about virgil and you were to bring him outside and like ask him about the indian he would know the iniat like intimately right he's like yeah it's obviously he will he wrote the iniat so you're all provided a way to understand the iniat right so you're all provided a way to understand the iniat right so you're all provided good theories and hypotheses but i mean having thought very deeply about this i think he just summoned virgil and it's like a real virgil right and it's absurd because donnie lived around the year 1300 and virgil lived the year about like you know during the time of jesus like like uh well"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "i'm not talking to jesus but but a generation before okay so we're talking like 1300 years difference how is this possible uh yes uh yeah you know i think this uh"
    },
    {
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      "text": "uh virgil is uh just usher right so i think danny's have read a lot of things about rage uh where virgil so maybe they just imagined this to row in his mind just like reason because sometimes we need to think about something for a reason but not by emotion"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3773.86,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "but okay so i write novels okay i write novels okay and i'll i'll take my writing process um what happens is i get up in the morning and i have visions i'm like i need to write these visions down and honestly and like if i don't write these visions down then i'm just gonna be haunted for the rest of my life so i'll just write these visions down and i'll be left alone so i write these visions down okay and when i'm writing these visions i don't know what happens it feels like i'm right when i'm writing it feels like someone's taking possession of me and i'm just writing things and then i'm writing about these characters and i'm like i don't know these people okay it's it's like it's it's not like i'm creating these people it's like these people are being revealed to me and then um i finished writing and i look"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3826.5,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "at these characters like i don't know these people i've never met these people and they feel real to me but knowing that but i feel as though these characters not only are talking to me but they're talking to themselves independently okay and then and i'm exhausted after a day's work and i fall asleep and like okay well my mind is blank and i'm not gonna have any more visions now you know in the morning i get up again and have more visions okay and then i keep on working and at the end of my novel what happens like i look back when it's like how's it possible for me to world build okay how's it possible for me to create all these people that are independent of each other have different personalities but they are true themselves and they're true to each other okay and i'm like i don't know these people i've never had"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "to spend my own my life and like i can't explain the process and that's why i think that what's happened here is that don has summoned virgil because these are two very different people they're alike in some ways but they're two different people okay all right so now what i'm gonna do is i'm i'm gonna present another theory of how this works okay and this is more in line with dante's theory of how this works so so we know the dora science okay this is a standard theory of memory and identity right right i mean this is what you're taught in school i'm gonna present to you a different theory okay all right so for dante we have the divine spark the divine spark is not a light in us it's our soul and our soul is not um a part of us it is it is us it's it's basically like our electrical field"
    },
    {
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      "text": "okay it's it's all around us okay that's the real soul okay um and the soul doesn't exist in our dimension exists in different dimensions all right um and we also know from dante that there is a god and this god is the emanation of the universe the source of the universe and we're all connected to this god okay so the entire cosmos is connected okay so imagine um the cosmos as this infinite eternal mind okay and what happens is that when we have an emotion okay the emotions aren't stored inside our brains they're stored inside this universal consciousness okay as what carl young would say as what manning hall would say okay right first of all edward did you want to explain to us the theory before i explain it myself i think"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "it's just where you're going that there's this idea that rather than the the memories are stored in our physical beings there is some a collective consciousness and through uh different methods uh that some people propose there is a way of uh channeling this and i don't know the exact uh ways of it but i know that there for example even in in sort of the contemporary world there are some sources about for example like your very young children that have knowledge of things that"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "yeah there is there is no way that they would have known how yeah yeah people really can't explain this uh so this is a separate theory that's yeah so so my eldest son chris who who you met and you guys met him as well because he came in and like just you know walked around but when he was two years old he told us mom dad you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know i'm an alien from another planet like okay we believe you we really do okay because when we because we've seen him and he's like he's not like me he's not his mother he's he's his own person and like he was two years so he told he told us he's from another planet so the first thing we"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "asked him of course is like what planet and he mentioned a name i can't remember it but like for him it was real okay so it seems as though that he came in with already memories of a past life and possibly many many past lives i'm not sure if you had a similar experience with your children but you know yeah like like no my my they're the aliens yes okay so um yeah back to this here okay so there is a universal consciousness okay and think of it as an infinite eternal grid so what happens is that when we have emotions they're not stored inside the brain they're stored inside this universal mind okay and there and these memories go in different different locations so so if it's a bad memory like a bad emotion hate then it might be lower but it but if it's a a good emotion like happiness and joy bliss"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "then it's probably higher higher in the place okay okay so this is this is where the memories are stored okay but knowing that but evelyn's memories are stored here right so it's like it's like the internet and so what happens is that over time certain regions become like alive themselves because they are being uh because there's so much memories being stored in this place right it becomes alive itself and that's where we get the idea of like ghosts and spirits and demons okay and so in other words what happens is like when we have memories okay not only do we store the memories in a certain place but this place also communicates connects with us okay and so um so how does that make sense i think what does it mean yeah well first of all so you know you are a psychic you are an independent person right so basically you you're an independent"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "person but also your collection of different memories from different eras which means you're also a collection of different individuals from different times okay does that make sense okay why is this important because now gives us insight into how art works right because what art really is it is a portal or a mechanism to enhance your connection to this universal consciousness this internet it doesn't make sense okay so when that happens then not only do you feel more but you feel more remember these emotions come with their own memories with their own visions then these visions come available to you okay so that's what art and dreaming does it connects you to this universal web but if the connection is really strong they don't need these uh agents to provoke you you just see them yourself okay so that's what happened happened to dante so what's happened is like he um he's now able to see"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "these visions for himself without um artwork and the reason why he's able to see them what's given him sight is the fact that he's cleansing himself of his sins right which is his sins what sins really do is they brought you down to material world they make you forget the universal truth right which is the universal consciousness so the more virtuous a life you you live the more visions you have because the greater your connection to the divide all right you guys understand this any questions about this theory yes but uh i understand you can uh summon"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:11:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "this uh historical figures into your mind um it's like a seance right uh but what it but can you like summon this like fictional characters like let's say you're writing a you're writing a novel right and and these characters they are now they did not existed in the they didn't exist in the in the real world right so can you summon like fictional characters what but i mean like like"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "this is an infinite universe right so there's infinite people so so when you're writing fiction all you're doing is you're summoning someone from here yes well so just to answer that through"
    },
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      "text": "through this lens like the fictional characters uh are basically real characters like they're not really that's right like we're all sort of part of the same collection of archetypes"
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      "text": "yes because we read fiction where we read it because it's real to us right because explaining these universal truths to us uh yes so does that mean whenever"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "a person writes a novel um the characters in their novel um is some summited if he's a good writer"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "yeah but he could be a bad writer in which case he's making crap up okay but but how's the the"
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      "text": "difference like the um why do some writers write a good novel novel and others write a bad novel because"
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      "text": "the writer has a different connection to the divine okay like no no no it's really simple okay if you choose to be a writer you're probably a crappy writer you understand it's like i want to be a writer i want to be famous you're probably a crappy writer okay if you're a good writer you're just born that way i hate to say this okay writers are not uh writers are chosen by god dante was chosen the virgin was chosen too bad okay uh yes the fact of uh feeling lighter i feel like when"
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      "text": "your ideas come from a spiritual world whereas if you're really heavy then it's just like material like oh i'm lacking money or i'm i'm late and so there's really a link into feeling lighter and"
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      "text": "having better ideas that's exactly right yes remember in sorry sorry sorry uh anna uh sorry let me respond this and then um so remember how how in hell the lowest level is lucifer right and he's become a machine so he's lost all consciousness because he's lost the connection to his universal consciousness right uh yes but i have a problem with this theory"
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      "text": "because in that way then it's like ecclesiastes there's nothing new under the sun everything we write in fiction is a real person in the past so then we actually lost our imagination because we don't create anything new so carol shaking her head yes but oh okay so like all this collective consciousness"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "memories are not from there's no time no time in space yeah oh okay right this is all the past it's also the future oh i see i see okay okay because otherwise yeah explain to me how dante is able to have such revolutionary ideas in his time right because like these ideas that he's presenting never existed before so what he's done is he's looked in the future okay right okay doesn't make sense guys okay so again what's really important is as carol says this is beyond time and okay this is literally god okay this system okay god is the alpha and the omega the beginning in the end everything that was and everything that will be okay so when you actually access the system not only are you accessing the past but you're also accessing the future okay yeah uh"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "but do you have like a better imagery for like your concepts because it's really hard to write down what you did here like do you have a better way to like uh drawing about like what's happening with like bubbles or something um let's google this okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "it's called indra's pearl okay can you google this players indra pearl okay all right uh or android's injured web is that web okay just this yeah does it make more sense to you the web"
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      "text": "since you've studied the brain synapses right synapses neurons neurocognition"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "connections yeah okay so the idea is that god is with is within us and we are within god does that make sense that's a trick to understand that we are it's hard to draw because both are both are true at the same time right we are we are within god and god is within us so the universe"
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      "text": "is within us when you and we are the universe when you draw you would collapse it into two"
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      "text": "dimension which is which is not yeah also you need to send the fractals right fractal so you are just a fractal of the universe and what was a fractal fractal is just a reflection of the universe right so within you is the universe itself and but you're also a part of the universe god is in you and you are inside god okay does it make sense guys all right this is really important because once you know this then the rest of dante uh is it's easier to understand you okay but but the point is like now that he has this connection to the vine because he's been inspired by artwork he's committed to change and because he's cleansing himself more and more sins the visions become much more vibrant okay okay okay yeah this is actually what i wanted okay you guys see this okay this is the best we can probably do you are"
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      "text": "inside god god is inside you you guys do you guys see this yes i was just gonna say also bringing it more to"
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      "text": "the point that we were talking about uh contemporary thought like we're talking about how dante can clean him clean himself get better connection to the collective conscious this is quite similar to in hinduism and in yoga when they have the idea of kundalini right that if you abstain from all these desires you do very deep meditation over years and years yes many people reported that they have these visions and that's right connections to this high quality exactly"
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      "text": "exactly i mean this is a universal truth okay it's something that i've experienced in my life where um when i write novels like i just don't i don't create i just you know channel if you if you if you create um honestly you're probably not very good so so so let me tell you a funny story um so uh my mentor is ever brought much but also gay talese gay talese is one of the most famous writers in america he's 94 years old and we were 25 years ago we were on a cruise ship in shanghai and there was three of us there was gay talese his wife nantalese who is one of the most famous publishers in america she published margaret atwood and um all these famous writers including joan didion and um she was telling us how phil knight you guys know phil phil knight is right a billionaire nike yeah he's fond"
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      "text": "of nike and and she was telling us how obsessed phil knight is with writing a book in fact phil knight would just come to her office every single day and sit there for like two hours just to meet her and talk to her talk to her about the book he wants to write and nantalese is like he is awful he's like the worst writer ever okay um um but i mean eventually he did publish a book it's called shoot dog and it's a bestseller but you know he's he's the richest he's one of the richest men in the world and he's like you know i want to be a writer and he's like i want to be a writer and he's like i want to be a writer and he spent you know these decades going to like these workshops hiring writers learning the craft but but then then nantalese is like you know um"
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      "text": "he's not a very good writer but he is just so joyful and enthusiastic and happy about writing he says he wants to write because it brings him tremendous joy and then gay talese said well if you're really stupid you could be very happy as a writer okay all right true story um like if you just you would find tremendous pleasure in writing but if you're really good you would find only agony and suffering in writing because uh you recognize that when you write uh you're not actually in control okay you're being possessed you're you're channeling okay all right does it make sense you guys all right all right let's continue line 115 and when my soul returned"
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      "text": "outside itself and met the things outside it that are real i then could recognize my not false desires my guide on seeing me behave as if i were a man who's freed himself from sleep said what's wrong with you you can't walk straight for more than half a league now you have moved with clouded eyes and lurching legs as if you were a man whom wine or sleep has gripped oh my kind father if you hear me out i'll tell you what appeared to me i said when i had lost the right youth of my leg and he although you had a hundred masks upon your face that still would not conceal from me the thoughts you thought however slight you have seen was shown lest you refuse to open your heart unto the waters of peace that pour from the eternal fountain i did not ask what's wrong with you as one who only"
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      "text": "sees with earthly earthly eyes which once the body stripped of soul lies dead can't see i ask so that your feet might find more force so must one urge the indolent too slow to use their waking time when it returns we made our way until the end of vespers peering as far ahead as sight could stretch at rays of light that although late were bright and the light of night were dimmed and the light of night were bright but gradually smoke as black as night began to overtake us and there was no place where we"
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      "text": "could have avoided it of pure air and sight okay so we uh were in the terrace of law but um they're"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "all so busy you don't have time to talk okay now we're moving up to the terrorist of rap and the name of the rap uh sort of rap is all black smoke okay all right that's one one canto 16."
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    {
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      "start": 4943.11,
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      "text": "blackness of hell and of a night deprived of every planet under meager skies as overcast by clouds that sky can be had never served to veil my eyes so thickly nor covered them with such rough textured stuff as smoke that wrapped us there in purgatory my eyes could not endure remaining open so that my faithful knowledgeable escort drew closer as he offered me his shoulder just as a blind man moves behind his guide that he not stray or strike against something that may do damage to or even kill him so i moved through the bitter filthy air while listening to my guide who kept repeating not cut off from me but i heard voices and each seemed to pray unto the lamb of god who takes away our sins for peace and mercy agnus day was sung repeatedly as their exhortium words sung in such a way in unison that fullest concord seemed to be"
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      "text": "among them master are those whom i hear spirits i asked him you have grasped rightly he replied and as they go they lose the knot of anger then who are you whose body pierces through our smoke who speak of the spirit of the spirit of the spirit of the spirit of the spirit of the spirit of us exactly like a man who uses months to measure time a voice said this on hearing it my master turned round to me replied to him then ask if this way leads us to the upward path and i a creature who that you return fair unto him who made you cleanse yourself you shall hear wonders if you follow me i'll follow you as far as i'm allowed he answered and if smoke won't let us see hearing will serve instead to keep us linked then i began with those same swarms of the spirit of the spirit of"
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      "start": 5034.35,
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      "time_label": "1:23:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "god この人我突然作成傀儡 Je verse reversed himself yesterday take my upward path i've come here by way of health exactions since God so gathered me into His glory since God so gathered me into His grace that he would have me in a manner most unusual for modern je his core See the blood separate us once by means that we're driven away or inspire each There's no concealing from me who you once were before your death and tell me if i go straight to the past Your words will be our escort caught of our time after i parted i was a lombard and i was called Marco i knew the world's ways and i loved those good for which the holds of all men now grows slack complementary to those who bone a strength within people this cause is what asgore Matthew Daniel unusual way you've taken lead directly in the end of time to the upward so"
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      "text": "he replied and then he added i pray you to pray for me when you're above and i to him i pledge my faith to you to do what you have asked and yet a doubt will burst in me if it finds no way out before my doubt was simple but your statement has doubled it and made me sure that i'm right to couple your word with another's the world indeed has been stripped utterly of every virtue as you said to me it cloaks and is cloaked by perversity some place the cause and heaven's on below but i beseech you to define the cause that seeing it i may show it to others aside from which his sorrow formed and oh was his beginning then he answered brother the world is blind and you come from the world you living ones continue to assign to heaven every cause as if it were the necessary source of"
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      "text": "every motion if this were so then your free will would be destroyed and there would be no equity and joy for doing good and grief for evil okay so"
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      "text": "um donnie meets a man named marco lombard and they engage in a debate a discussion okay that's it with nature free will and we as we explained earlier free will has to be the fundamental law of the universe for the universe to work properly okay uh if you just think that god intervenes uh and that a lot of things are predetermined um you're not incentivized to do any good and evil okay you become fatalistic and uh so he says that free will has to be the"
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      "text": "fundamental law of the universe okay all right keep on going 73 the heavens set your appetites in motion not all your appetites but even if that were the case you have received both light on good and evil and free will which though it struggled in its first wars with the heavens then conquers all if it has been well nurtured on greater power better nature you who are free depend that for is engenders the mind in you outside the heaven's way thus if the present world has gone astray and used the cause and you it's to be sought and now serve as your true exegete issuing from his hand the soul on which he thought with love before creating it is like a child who weeps and laughs in sport that soul is simple unaware but since a joyful maker gave it motion it turns willingly to things that bring delight at first it savors trivial"
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      "text": "goods these would beguile the soul and it runs after them unless there's guide or reign to rule its love therefore one needed law to serve as curb a rule or two was needed one who would discern at least the tower of the true city the laws exist but who applies them now no one the shepherd who proceeds his flock can chew the cud but does not have cleft hoops and thus the people who can see their guides not only at that good for which they feel some greed would feed on that and seek no further misrule you see has caused the world to be malevolent the world is clearly not celestial forces they do not corrupt for rome who made the world good used to have two sons and they made visible two paths the world's path and the pathway that is god's each has eclipsed the other now the sword has joined the shepherd's"
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      "text": "crook the two together must of necessity result in evil because so joined one need not feed the other free fear the other and if you doubt me watch the fruit and flower for every plant is known by what it seeds within the light is one who ent wiggle then one is courageous and one will be called alive and so we learn heartily in the month of july of the awkward time the house of the flourished rain entered on this day and ceiling and not to the white by an offender but we do have to leave it you may not be willing to bring it one more time to drink a cup of bon uttered mannah to last my life my father stood for a friend in 널 You can conclude the Church of Rome confounds two powers in itself into the fill that falls and fouls itself in its new burden. Good Marco, I replied, you reason well and now understand why Levy's sons were not allowed to share in legacies."
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      "text": "But what, Gerardo, is this whom you mention as an example of the banished people whose presence would reproach the savage age? Either your speech deceives me or would tempt me, he answered then. For you whose speech is Tuscan seem to know nothing of the good Gerardo. There's no other name by which I know him unless I speak of him as Gaia's father. God be with you, I come with you no farther. You see the rays that penetrate the smoke already whitening. I must take leave. The angel has arrived before he sees me. So he turned back and would not hear me more."
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      "text": "Okay, so just to summarize the speech, what he's doing is he's just explaining how the universe works as we'll learn in Paradise, right? So God gave us free will, that is his greatest gift to us. And what allows us to know what's good, what's bad is we're always seeking to return to him, right? We want to turn towards him and that's what brings us eternal delight. But because we are young, we're immature, we don't appreciate that. So we get lost and get confused and we seek material pleasures. And in this chaos, a ruler will come. And try to organize us and steer us towards God. But eventually the ruler becomes corrupt himself. And then what happens is God has sent a divine messenger like Jesus or Homer or Dante to remind us of who we are. To remind us that we are divine sparks that seek to return to God. And then from this person will arise a religion, a church."
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      "text": "And at first that's good, but then what happens is that the church and Empire combine together. And then this causes a lot of corruption. But the main point is, yes, even though this is just a natural course of history, free will is the fundamental law of the universe. And therefore we must take responsibility for all our actions on earth. We can't be like, well, God made us this way or whatever. No, no. God gave us all free choice. Whatever we do, it's because we choose to. So if we don't like things the way they are, we have to go fix it. Okay. Yes."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "So the fundamental rule of the universe is free will. Then how do you... But you've said before there are good writers and bad writers. Does that mean a kind of deterministic... No, no, no."
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      "text": "Writers are..."
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      "text": "Yes. I think that the way I would answer this is just that bad writers are not good at organizing the inspiration they receive. So they receive visions and characters and stories. But the way they write it means that other beings have a hard time putting their minds in the story. So they just miscommunicate whatever their inspiration is. Okay."
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      "text": "So, sorry. Let me explain what I mean. Okay. What I mean are writers who become historical figures. Writers who change the course of history. People like Homer, Dante, Shakespeare, Plato. Okay. These are clearly divine prophets. Who are compelled to be messengers for the monad, for the vine. Okay. What you're thinking about is, okay, is this guy a bestseller? Is he technically proficient? That doesn't matter. No one cares about these people. Okay. You may care about these people because they're alive today. But 100 years from now, no one's going to read like... Who's a famous writer? Excuse me?"
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      "time_label": "1:32:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "J.K. Rowling."
    },
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 5528.6,
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      "time_label": "1:32:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "J.K. Rowling. No one's going to read J.K. Rowling 100 years from now."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "time_label": "1:32:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. So, the prophets are determined before by God."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yeah. Can someone explain to him how this works? Anna, can you try?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 5550.29,
      "end": 5580.59,
      "time_label": "1:32:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "I think good writers are willing to kind of be a vessel for God's things. So, you are very empty on the inside. It's like yoga, right? Like when you're doing the posture, you empty yourself and then these things come to you. Yeah. So, if you're a bad yoga person, then you do all your yoga. You do all your postures and then you make it look really good. You balance yourself very well. But then you are not a channel. So, then you don't have that divine connection to write that kind of works that change the course of history."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "start": 5583.01,
      "end": 5584.79,
      "time_label": "1:33:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Du, did you want to say something?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "start": 5585.03,
      "end": 5617.91,
      "time_label": "1:33:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "I think those good writers, they're just born with a different filter, right? Because like you said, our body is basically a filter to filter the reality. And they can choose to be either like wardrobe or Dante. They can choose wardrobe to distort the celestial order and rise as an idiot, right? Or they can choose to be like Dante to convey this divine order to the secular world."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "time_label": "1:33:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Okay. Bruce? Thank you. I was saying there's so many famous writers. Some of the writers in America, for example, like Hemingway, right? So, all of these writers just get through some kind of painful memory like in the war, you know, in wartime. So, some people have been tortured so much. They really want to write something, okay? And even the Harry Potter's writer, J.K. Rowling, who has just been so poor in poor conditions. So, in this way, his imagination has been so, you know, so much better than others. And he even keeps writing on the napkins about what he wants to write. And the Harry Potter is actually just J.K. Rowling's childhood. So, maybe this will change."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Fred, did you want to say something?"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:34:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "No. I think other than I have to agree with the filter point, but I just think I really agree with that. It's about bad writers are people that let their own mind and biases and experience cloud the structure that would have come into them."
    },
    {
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      "start": 5682.64,
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      "time_label": "1:34:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yeah, like Virgil, yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
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      "start": 5683.34,
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      "time_label": "1:34:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "It's good or bad. It's also, I think human success can be defined by talent, passion, and perseverance or this filter. So, like some people are born, like he said, like to be better writers because their filters are set in a way that they are more likely to have this invitation of divine revelation. But then there were also other, you know, factors."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
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      "start": 5710.91,
      "end": 5741.52,
      "time_label": "1:35:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Do you guys read the New Yorker magazine? Just the most pretentious crap. In this world. Okay. They spent decades perfecting their crap. It's beautiful word after word after word signifying nothing. Full of sound and theory. Okay. That's what the New Yorker is. That's what bad writing looks like. Okay. All right. And so, you're like, well, but, I mean, like, they're successful. No one cares. Okay. All right. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I just hate the New Yorker. Let's move on. Sorry."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
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      "start": 5743.28,
      "end": 5797.217,
      "time_label": "1:35:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Canto 17. Remember, reader? If you've ever been caught in the mountains by a mist through which you only saw as moles see through their skin, how when the thick damp vapors once begin to thin, the sun's fear passes feebly through them, then your imagination will be quick to reach the point where it can see how it first came to see the sun again when it was almost at the point at which it sets. So my steps matched my master's trusty steps out of that cloud I came reaching the rays that on the shores below by now were spent. Oh, fantasy. That at times would snatch us so from outward things we notice nothing, although a thousand trumpets sound around us. Who moves you when the senses do not spur you? A light that finds its form in heaven moves you directly or led downward by God's will. Within my fantasy I saw impressed the savagery of one who then transformed became the bird that most delights in song."
    },
    {
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      "start": 5797.217,
      "end": 5804.59,
      "time_label": "1:36:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "At this my mind withdrew to the within to what imagining might bring. No thing that came from the without could enter in."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "time_label": "1:36:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay. So again, he's having visions now, okay? These visions just come to him. There's nothing he can do about it. These are just visions that are sent down to him. Okay, so let's look at the visions."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:36:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Then into my deep fantasy there reigned one who was crucified, and as he died he showed his savagery and disdain. Line 28. Around him were great Ahasuerus and Esther his wife and the just Mordecai, who sang and whose doing were so upright. And when this image shattered of itself just like a bubble that has lost the water beneath which it was formed, there then rose up in my envisioning a girl who wept most bitterly and said, Oh, queen, why did you in your wrath desire to be no more? So as to keep Lavinia, you killed yourself. Now you have lost me. I am she, mother, who mourns your fall before another's. Even a sleep is shattered when new light strikes suddenly against closed eyes. And once it's shattered gleams before it dies completely. So my imagination fell away at soonest. Light, more powerful than light, were accustomed to beat on my eyes. I looked about"
    },
    {
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      "start": 5873.32,
      "end": 5921.53,
      "time_label": "1:37:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "to see where I might be, but when a voice said, Here one can ascend, then I abandoned every other intent. That voice made my will keen to see the one who'd spoken with the eagerness that cannot be still until it faces what it wants. But even as the sun becomes so strong, defeats our vision, veiling its own form. So there my power of sight was opened. I could overcome. This spirit is divine, and though unasked, he would conduct us to the upward path. He hides himself with that same light he sheds. He does with us as men do with themselves. For he who sees a need but waits to be asked has already set on cruel refusal. Now let our steps accept his invitation, and let us try to climb before dark falls. Then, until day returns, we'll have to halt. So sat my guide, and toward a stairway he and I together turned."
    },
    {
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      "end": 5974.272,
      "time_label": "1:38:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And just as soon as I was at the first step, I sensed something much like the motion of a wing, and wind that beat against my face and words, beati passivici, those free of evil anger. Above us now, the final rays before the fall of night were raised to such a height that we could see the stars on every side. Oh, why, my strength, do you so melt away? I said within myself, because I felt the force within my legs compelled to halt. We'd reach a point at which the upward stairs no longer climbed, and we were halted there just like a ship when it has touched the shore. I listened for a while, hoping to hear whatever there might be in this new circle. Then I turned toward my master, asking him, Tell me, my gentle father, what offense has perched within the circle we have reached? Although our feet must stop, your words need not."
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      "time_label": "1:39:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And he to me, precisely here the love of good that is too tepidly pursued is mended. Here the lazy oar plies harder, and so that you may understand more clearly, now turn your mind to me, and you will gather some useful fruit from our delaying here. My son, there's no creator and no creature whoever was without love, natural or mental, and you know that, he began. The natural is always without error, but mental love may choose an evil object or err through too much or too little vigor. As long as it's directed toward the first good and tends toward secondary goods with measure, it cannot be the cause of evil pleasure. But when it twists toward evil or tends to good with more or less care than it should, those whom he made have worked against their maker. From this you see that, of necessity, love is the seed in you of every virtue and of all acts deserving punishment."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0213",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=6028s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0213",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0213",
      "start": 6028.72,
      "end": 6084.5,
      "time_label": "1:40:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Now, since love never turns aside its eyes from the well -being of its subject, things are surely free of hatred of themselves. And since no being can be seen as self -existing and divorced from the first being, each creature is cut off from hating him. Thus, if I have distinguished properly, ill love must mean to wish one's neighbor ill, and this love is born in three ways in your clay. There's he who, through abasement of another, hopes for supremacy. He only longs to see his neighbor's excellence cast down. Then there's one who, when he's outdone, fears his own loss of fame, power, honor, favor. His sadness loves misfortune for his neighbor. And there's he who, over injury received, resentful for revenge, grows greedy and angrily seeks out another's harm. This threefold love is expiated here below. Now, I would have you understand the love that seeks the good distortedly."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0214",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=6084s",
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      "start": 6084.78,
      "end": 6122.1,
      "time_label": "1:41:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Each apprehends confusedly a good in which the mind may rest and longs for it, and thus all strive to reach that good. But if the love that urges you to know it or to reach that good is lax, this terrorist, after a just repentance, punishes for that. There's a different good which does not make men glad. It is not happiness. It's not true essence, fruit and root of every good. The love that profligately yields to that is wept on in three terraces above us. But I'll not say what three -shape that love takes. May you seek those distinctions for yourself."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0215",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=6122s",
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      "start": 6122.46,
      "end": 6177.91,
      "time_label": "1:42:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so just like in hell, Virgil is explaining to us how, puritory is structured. He's saying that the last three terraces are the three, um, um, terraces of gluttony, lust, and greed. Okay? Greed, gluttony, and lust are the last, are the top three. And the reason why they're, they're on the top three is they are love that is misguided. Okay? Uh, greed is the love of power, right? When you should be actually loving God. Uh, gluttony is the love of food. And then lust is just, um, spurious love, random love. Okay? So it is love that is misguided. Um, and they are the ones which, um, confuse you. Okay. All right. Uh, let's go on to 18, okay?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0216",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=6180s",
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      "start": 6180.05,
      "end": 6216.02,
      "time_label": "1:43:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Canto 18. The subtle teacher had completed his discourse to me attentively. He watched my eyes to see if I seemed satisfied. And I, still goaded by new thirst, was silent without, although within I said, perhaps I have displeased him with too many questions. But that true father who had recognized the timid want, I would not tell aloud by speaking gave me courage to speak out. At which I said, Master, my sight is so illumined by your light. I recognize all that your words declare or analyze. Therefore, I pray you, gentle father dear, to teach me what love is. You have reduced to love both each good and its opposite."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
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      "start": 6216.22,
      "end": 6233.44,
      "time_label": "1:43:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay. All right. So this is actually a really important Canto. Okay. And I want us to focus on this. Virgil now, it's going to explain to us what love is. Why is it love can go astray? Okay. What is good love? What is bad love? Okay. All right. So, uh, let us listen to his explanation."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0218",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=6235s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0218",
      "start": 6235.22,
      "end": 6295.26,
      "time_label": "1:43:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Line 16. He said, direct your intellect's sharp eyes toward me and let the air of the blind who'd serve as guides be evident to you. The soul, which is created quick to love, responds to everything that pleases just as soon as beauty wakens it to act. Your apprehension draws an image from a real object and expands upon that object until soul has turned toward it. And if so turned, the soul tends steadfastly. Then that propensity is love. It's nature that joins the soul in you anew through beauty. Then just as flames ascend because the form of fire was fashioned to fly upward toward the stuff of its own sphere where it lasts longest, so does the soul when seized moved into longing emotion of the spirit, never resting till the beloved thing has made it joyous. Now you can plainly see how deeply hidden truth is from scrutinists who would insist that every love is in itself praiseworthy."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0219",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=6295s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0219",
      "start": 6295.64,
      "end": 6349.48,
      "time_label": "1:44:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And they're led to error by the matter of love because it may seem always good, but not each seal is fine, although the wax is. Your speech and my own wit that followed it, I answered, have shown me what love is, but that has filled me with still greater doubt. For if love's offered to us from without and is the only foot with which soul walks, soul going straight or crooked has no merit. And he to me, what reason can see here I can impart. Past that, for truth of faith, it's Beatrice alone you must await. Every substantial form at once distinct from matter and conjoined to it, in gathers the force that is distinctively its own. A force unknown to us, until it acts, it's never shown except in its effects, just as green boughs display the life in plants. And thus man does not know the source of his intelligence of primal notion and his tending toward desires primal objects."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0220",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=6349s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0220",
      "start": 6349.86,
      "end": 6396.6,
      "time_label": "1:45:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Both are new, just as in bees, there's the honey making urge. Such primal will deserves no praise, and it deserves no blame. Now that all other longings may conform to this first will, there's a new inborn, the power that counts, those keeper of the threshold of your ascent. This is the principle on which your merit may be judged, for it garners and winnows good and evil belongings. Those reasoners who reached the roots of things, learned of its inborn freedom, the bequest that thus they left unto the world is ethics. Even if we allow necessity as source for every love that flames in you, the power to curb that love is still your own. This noble power is what Beatrice means by free will. Therefore, remember it. If she should ever speak of it to you."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=6397s",
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      "start": 6397.06,
      "end": 6470.68,
      "time_label": "1:46:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay. So again, this is a very important speech. Okay. And this is really the fighting speech. Um, the defining, uh, a dialogue between Dante and Virgil. Remember how we said that, uh, at the end of infernal Virgil gave birth to Dante. And throughout this process was Virgil that was guiding Dante. Well, at this point, uh, this dialogue, this debate is gonna mark, um, when Dante and Virgil have their separation. Okay. So let's figure out why Dante and Virgil, they must separate. So Virgil saying this, you're walking the streets and sitting, uh, in the restaurant outside in a terrace is the most beautiful woman you've ever seen. If you're a woman, you're obviously, obviously the most handsome guy you've seen. Okay. All right. But, but, but just for the sake of argument, let's let, let's use beautiful woman. Okay. For the sake of simplicity. Um, and what do you wanna, what do you wanna do now?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 6474.44,
      "end": 6475.16,
      "time_label": "1:47:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Come on."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "time_label": "1:47:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "start": 6476.28,
      "end": 6545.92,
      "time_label": "1:47:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "You, you wanna go say hi, like, Hey, how are you? You sit down beside her. Okay. And, um, what, what happens next? Okay. What happens next? You're talking to her. You're like, Hey, how are you? What a beautiful day. Um, if you're a Virgil, what do you aspire to do? Possess her? Yeah. It's, you wanna possess her, right? If you actually read his speech, he's talking about, about how, what love is. It is your soul expanding outwards to possess another soul of beauty. Okay. You, your soul wants to encompass. Okay. Literally dominate, control, another person. Okay. And what, so, and so if Virgil wants to possess her, how is starting different? What does Donnie want to do? Well, what should you do before you praise her? Come on guys. Have you never dated? Yes. Yes. Brad learn about her. Yeah. I get to know her guys. Okay. Not hard. Ask her, Hey, where are you from?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 6545.92,
      "end": 6571.34,
      "time_label": "1:49:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "What do you like to do? Okay. Right. So what Virgil is saying is that's what love is. Love is basically lust. You see someone beautiful and you want to have her. Okay. And so what happens if she says you're ugly or I don't like you, what would Virgil do? Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
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      "end": 6574.3,
      "time_label": "1:49:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Put her in hell. Well, yeah, that's what he does ultimately."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 6574.48,
      "end": 6577,
      "time_label": "1:49:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "But what, but what does he do beforehand?"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "time_label": "1:49:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Um, he'll get mad at, and he'll make like negative comments on like, oh, you're not that good either. Whatever."
    },
    {
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      "start": 6588.48,
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      "time_label": "1:49:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "But, but what, what do you do? What, what do you do? That makes you mad at her."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:49:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Cause she's not praising you back."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "text": "What would Virgil do? Okay. Like, like, you know, they have, they have lunch and then Virgil's like, wow, you're so beautiful. And then she's like, you know, I'm not that interested in you. What would Virgil do? Come on."
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      "text": "Yes. Well, he would say like, try to introduce a contract of duty between the two. So he said, I love you so much. No, no, no, he would not do that."
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      "text": "He'll write a poem like that. Amy, I forgot how to pronounce it. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Cause I think that girl also kind of refused to talk to him. I think."
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      "text": "Okay. Okay. Like, no, seriously, come on. Come on. It's not hard. Okay. Have you guys not dated? Okay. Yes. He asked why? No, he won't. No, He won't care. What will he do to me? No, he won't."
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      "text": "Maybe in so her. No."
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      "text": "Come on, maybe he would just walk away."
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      "text": "3. How, how do you insist?"
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      "text": "He will try to reason her out. Oh, guys."
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      "text": "Come on. Hello. Bower flowers. Hello. Bower chocolates. Hello, How about buy her a diamond ring? How about buy her a Mercedes? How about take her to Monaco for the Grand Prix? How about induce her to Jackie Chan? How about buy her a villa? How about take her to the moon? He won't stop. And then if he gets rejected, what will he do? He'll put her in hell, man. He'll write the Indian and put her in hell. You understand? You understand? That's what literally he will do, right? For like years and years, he will pursue you and you'll be like, no, he'll try harder and harder, okay? That's Virgil's conception of love. Tell me how Donny is different. Yes, Edward?"
    },
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      "text": "Did you want to? Try it. If he was rejected, he would just continue to love her? Would he get rejected, Anna?"
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      "text": "Yes. He's getting to know her and praise her and then write poetry for her. And if she rejects him, usually she wouldn't, I guess, because he's so loving. But if she does, then he will continue to love her regardless of her reaction to him. But I love you because I love you. I don't need you to love me back because the true essence of love is just love, but you just flow. And if you don't love me, that's fine."
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      "text": "Yes. So what is your name?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Crystal. My name is Crystal. And I was trying to make a similar point. Okay."
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      "text": "Thanks, Crystal. Okay. All right. What does Virgil want at the end of the day when he's sending her flowers and buying her a diamond ring? What does he really want? Sex. Yeah. All he wants is sex, man. Okay. For him, that's what love is. Okay. Sex. Does Donny want sex?"
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      "text": "Yes."
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      "text": "Part of it."
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      "text": "No. He does not. Okay. Guys. Guys. Yes."
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      "text": "I think the answer to the first part, like how he would seduce her, he basically try and get to know her as long as it took that it was impossible for her to deny that there was another soul present in her presence. But I think that he doesn't want sex because I think it was his love for Beatrice who he couldn't like, who he never really had sex with that was like, he was thinking, how can I love this person so much, but I'm not trying to procreate or I'm blocked from procreating because she died young. Right."
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      "text": "Also, historically, this is the time of the courtly love tradition, courtly love tradition. So you're supposed to like just worship a woman, but not possess her. Okay. You're supposed to worship her from afar. Usually it's a married woman. Usually it's someone you can never, ever have, but you just write poetry in praise of her. It's something called a courtly love tradition, the troubadours or the provincials in France, and Sardello, who we met previously. Was part of this troubadour tradition. Okay. So Dante, he would not be interested in the sex. He would think that love is the perfect expression of his devotion, of his faith, of his individuality. Okay. Does that make sense? Okay. So these are two. Yes. Andy."
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      "text": "We passed by. We passed by Canto 16, which is the center of the whole comedy and that's the Canto that focuses on free will. And now we get this, we don't, we get a lecture on love, which doesn't seem symmetrical from paradise or Inferno. And so it's like the free will kind of has led into this concept of love, the center of the whole comedy."
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      "text": "Right. Okay. So you're absolutely right. This is actually the very center of the line comedy. And this is where Don and Virgil, okay. It's almost like this is the final battle between the two. Okay. Where heaven and hell meet. Okay. And Don obviously represents heaven and Virgil represents hell. So we're the cosmos and they're going to discuss what love is. Okay. So you're absolutely right. This is crucial structurally and they discuss what love is. And we've already distinguished that Virgil sees love as the expression of your, uh, ego. And you, you want to dominate the other person. You want to possess the other person. Whereas for Dante, love is about giving. Okay. And this is very clear when we, when we reach paradise. Okay. So this is where ha heaven and hell meet, right? This is the final battle between the, between the two. And this is where they will ultimately separate and go, there are separate ways."
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      "text": "Um, how does Virgil define free will here? What is free will you see this beautiful woman, you talk to her, you buy her flowers, you buy her diamond ring, you give her like money and all you want to is have sex with her. what is free will in virgil's understanding of things that you're free to do whatever you want"
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      "text": "so it doesn't really matter what she wants or what she wants to do that you have the freedom to pursue her as much as you like and follow what you want as much as you what is good and evil here"
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      "text": "uh francois oh for virgil is having what he wants and for dante is wanting what he wants can you explain what so for example like virgil because he wants something free will would be having it uh even though like a lot of things make it impossible whereas dante it's just i think of it and even though it doesn't reach that point just the fact of i'm free to think and free to"
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      "text": "imagine having it okay yeah that that's that's right yes okay does someone want to expand on that uh edward did you want to say something okay for for virgil what is good and evil then for for virgil what is good and evil yes uh"
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      "text": "good and evil okay i really like french love's comment on uh having versus wanting i think that's that is mind it really leads guides my imagination i think for for virgil is having uh evil is having the wrong things good is having the right things for dante uh good is wanting the right things"
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      "text": "and evil is wanting the wrong things right yes okay okay uh anna i feel like for virgil like"
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      "text": "he's confirming to his will uh and what's bad is what's refusing his ego's manifestation so if the woman refuses him then she he condemns her to hell ultimately so it's not about whether the woman's choice was right or wrong but the fact that she rejected him no no that's not that's"
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      "text": "not how virgil will see it okay because remember we have to think that virgil is a real person with real ideas okay you just say it to yourself that doesn't really make sense virgil what is good and evil is um love and this is really important okay love is neither good or evil if love takes you to a good place and you allow good to take you that that place that's good but if love takes you to an evil place you have to reject love and that's what's good you understand that's what free will is free will is to deny yourself when you know the thing is wrong okay how does this conflict with virgil then oh sorry how does conflict with dante because virgil says love is neutral love can be good or bad free will is to know the difference and to act accordingly right what would donnie say come on we we"
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      "text": "read paradise we know what donnie says yes it's like follow your heart good can never be evil sorry love can never be evil love is always good okay then then then how to explain when you see this bit of a woman and like you love her so much you want to give your life to her how how how to explain this dante doesn't call misguided love love it's not love it's lust you understand if you see this woman you want to have sex with her that's not love that's lust okay love is giving yourself love is hoping the best for her right it's like how can i help you how can i be your friend how can i support you that's what love is it's not like i don't have sex with you that's just what lust is okay and virgil does not know the difference whereas donnie does know the difference that's why dante's"
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      "text": "stuck in limbo and why virgil's stuck in limbo and donnie's going to heaven that's the difference this is where they separate okay all right okay is that clear guys uh yes"
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      "text": "i still don't understand why this argument is even happening when when virgil knows the truth right he knows the truth about everything because he's a prophet so a poet or prophet so why why are they arguing when when when virgil should know the truth and he doesn't have any obstacle to not speak the truth about love that he should know to dante"
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      "text": "okay so again this goes back to the idea of absolute will and contingent will okay absolute will is what your soul is okay contingent will is what you choose to do so virgil knows the absolute truth of the universe but he's made certain choices that has clouded his understanding of things okay so he is a poet he knows the complete truth of the universe but he chose to write the in the ad to serve empire and so that's going to cloud his understanding of the way things work right once you make an action you have to justify this action does that make sense right once you make this action you have to like this is the right action you can't be like oh it was it was a mistake so once you make this action you now have to go justify it by changing your worldview okay so you know he knows the absolute truth"
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      "text": "he needs to make certain adjustments to the theory in order to make his actions make sense to him right so he knows that love is giving yourself but then like why did you write this the poem the in the ad and what did you let uh let you uh censor it and you know better right and you're like well okay it's and so what what you do is rather than just say i'm wrong you change your worldview doesn't make sense okay so he's he's weighed down"
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      "text": "by his past actions and his actions and his actions and his actions and his actions and his actions and"
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      "text": "that he can he's not able to change himself and that's what sin is right sin is you are weighed down by your actions and you refuse to forgive yourself and so you just you just you just you just basically uh put yourself in hell for all eternity okay doesn't make sense version problem is he refuses to admit he's wrong he would rather forget he would rather just burn in hell than just submit you know what i was wrong to write the indian ad okay all right guys so we'll take a break we'll come back uh at lunch after lunch okay uh welcome back good afternoon so to start we have a special presentation from francois and uh he's going to talk about how he perceives um how memory works okay so um uh francois yeah uh hello everyone so i was just like looking at"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "jeng's work and how he represent represented things and uh it was very missy and uh it seems like you were channeling the wrong guy i feel like right uh so yeah i basically did this this map on the right so this was like our discussion before about psychology uh so it is still like quite vague but you understand the most of it and on the right so um there's a big like circle where there's a source in the middle which is the monad so like energy and all and so it sparks like it's very bi - vibrant from the middle and then it extends into some very flat um circle and so how i look at it is that on the exterior it's more about uh present material and ego and so if your consciousness is directed like in this realm then you'll think about like money time house material objects about yourself etc and"
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      "text": "like depending on situations and moments in your life then your consciousness is more directed in the center where you like think more of love love hope and family and like etc it's just like um a whole idea and uh also i saw something um of like who is it rupert sheldrake yes yes he is a physicist yes can you explain his theory so basically i saw something about morphic resonance where there is some patterns and if people start thinking in a way i think there's like a pattern and people like diverge into this kind of consciousness so i feel like and so i feel like in today's world there is like improving uh converging point into like the exterior realm media products and ai where our consciousness is directed into thinking about uh money time fear etc whereas i see the divine comedy as more directing us into the center of this uh consciousness and"
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      "text": "so just like a point i made like think of this i feel like angels are more meant to push us inward and demons outward in a way and i think it's really movable so depending on the moment in your life and uh during the day your consciousness just like moves around there yeah okay great so um"
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=7553s",
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      "start": 7553.72,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "a few points first of all um this is great by the way this is fantastic um but my first point is remember yesterday professor brahmers told us that uh william james uh he believed ghosts actually exist but they were really boring okay they're not actually included and they have much consciousness and this is something that we experienced in divine comedy as well where there are angels and demons but they don't really do anything okay but the thing is like they're all around us and and this is what what the theory is like like we're surrounded always by these angels and demons who are torn in different directions okay that's the first one second point is that rudolph seldrick is really interesting so if you have a chance please watch his interviews his presentations um online but but to show but to put a point i i want me to just do an experiment okay so"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=7600s",
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      "start": 7600.24,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "first of all can you can you face the uh screen okay you're gonna face the screen okay and then and then i'm gonna have um edward come and what else yes no no no no stand behind him stand behind him okay okay and send behind him okay all right so i want you to turn away from him okay all right so we're gonna see okay we'll do an experiment okay where edward's going to turn around and look at uh francois okay and first of all can you please close your eyes okay okay so obviously if friends or turns around um before edward turns around then francois loses he gets this game okay right so we're trying to figure out how long it will take for uh everyone's gonna turn around okay and when ever turns around i want to i want to i have to count how long it takes for francois to turn around"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "okay and you remember if francois turns around first and he obviously loses okay that doesn't it doesn't make sense guys this is just an experiment okay it's not a test um but uh let's start okay on how three and again it's entirely edward's choice we're gonna turn around he could choose not to turn around if he wants to i mean he we could be here for them two hours okay but but we're gonna count how long it takes silently for francois to turn around when edward turns around okay all right so let's start one two three go wow you guys see that that was pretty fast man thank you thank you both okay you see i guess i saw that so francois how do you how do you how did you know can you can you because like we waited a long time i was getting impatient"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "i was like what's going on here man just through like so i was focusing on my respiration and i felt there was a moment i was like in control of the situation i felt it was the right moment okay"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "that was pretty that was pretty fast right i i mean i was i was impressed because like i think it was like less than two seconds like like how long was it yeah and like edward was being sneaky about it too right he was like i'm gonna trick him and like but were you surprised right so this is actually what rhubart cedric does he does this sort of research and he's trying to figure out how this happens like like how does this happen right if you use standard neuroscience it gets you nowhere right uh but um if you believe though that we actually exist in different dimensions and we have uh morphic fields okay so so basically we project outwards and so this sort of stuff is possible but also you think about it telepathy telekinesis is also possible to a certain degree okay um and this is something we'll discuss as we continue the"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "divine comedy how what our souls are our souls are essentially these morphic fields okay and so when edward is turning around and staring at friends our friends are turned around because there's a connection at the soul level okay and that's why the reaction is so fast weird right okay well there you go all right let's continue the vine comedy have you guys not seen this before yeah again like the point is there's so much interesting stuff out there but we close our minds to it right we we have these prejudices about how the world works and so we shut up our minds to these possibilities what's your impression of that but like but like when we saw it happen when you kind of like yeah it was kind of shocking right because like i knew what happened to you but like i didn't know it would happen that instantly right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "were you surprised yeah it's like we said also you put us all in tune yes you put us all in tune we've been doing this for 10 11 days yes yes yes uh excuse me no just like yeah i waited a long time"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "yeah you did i was like why man yeah i'd waited so long so i thought when i finally turned around you know it might take a while then to turn around yeah yeah and then he basically as soon as i turned around and looked at him he turned around yeah"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "yeah it happens pretty fast okay all right guys let's let's continue divine comedy okay"
    },
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      "text": "um canto 18 line 76 the moon with midnight now behind us made the star seem scarer to us scarcer to us it was shaped just like a copper basin gleaming new and counter course it crossed those paths the sun ignites when those in rome can see it set between the corsicans and the sardinians that gracious shade for whom piatola one more renowned than any manchu in town had freed me from the weight of doubt i bore so that i having harvested his clear and open answers to my questions stood like one who nearing sleep has random visions but readiness for sleep was suddenly taken from me by people who behind our bags backs already turned in our direction just as of old ismanus and asapus at night along their banks saw crowds and clamor whenever thebans had to summon buckets such was the arching crowd that curved around that circle driven on as i made"
    },
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      "start": 7991.77,
      "end": 8043.47,
      "time_label": "2:13:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "out by righteous will as well as by just love soon all that mighty throng drew near us for they ran and ran and two in front of them who wept were crying in her journey mary made haste to reach the mountain in order to conquer lerida for caesar thrust against marseille and then to spain he rushed to the other side of the mountain and then the others cried quick quick lest time be lost through insufficient love we're urged for good as keen grace finds new green oh people in whom eager fervor now may compensate for sloth and negligence he showed in doing good half -heartedly he who's alive and surely i don't lie to you would climb above as soon as he has seen the sun shed light on us again then tell us where the passage lies at hand my guide said this one of the souls replied to us and you will find"
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      "start": 8043.47,
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      "time_label": "2:14:03",
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      "text": "the gap we're so fully anxious to advance we cannot halt and do forgive us should you take our penance for discourtesy i was saying xenos abbott in verona under the rule of valiant barbarossa of whom milan still speaks with so much sorrow and there's one with one foot in the grave who soon will weep over that monastery lamenting that he once had power there because in place of its true shepherd he put one who was unsound of body and still more of mind and born in sin his son i don't know if he had said more or was silent he had already raised so barb far beyond us but i heard this much and was pleased to hear it and he who was my help in every need said turn around see those two coming they whose words mock sloth and i heard those two say behind all of the rest the ones for whom"
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      "text": "the sea parted were dead before the jordan saw those who had inherited its lands and those who did not suffer trials until the end together with and cassie's son gave themselves up to life without renown then when those shades were so far off from us that seeing them became impossible a new thought rose inside me and from that from that thought still others many and diverse were born i was so drawn from random thought thought that wandering in mind i shut my eyes transforming"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "thought on thought to dream so a new thought rose inside of me and it kept on going okay what happens as you become much more virtuous you become much more connected to the divine consciousness and more and more uh visions or downloaded into you okay that's a process at work"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "all right let's keep on going canto 19. in that hour when the heat of day defeated by earth and sometimes saturn can no longer warm up the moon sent cold when geomancers can in the east see their fortuna major rising before the dawn along a path that will be darkened for it only briefly a stammering woman came to me and dream her eyes askew and crooked on her feet her hands were crippled her complexion sallow i looked at her and just as sun revives cold limbs that night made numb so did my gaze lose in her tongue and then in little time set her contorted limbs in perfect order and with the coloring that love prefers my eyes transformed the oneness of her features and when her speech had set free then she began to sing so that it would have been most difficult for me to turn aside i am she sang i'm the"
    },
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      "start": 8209.5,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "pleasing siren who in mid -sea leads mariners astray there's so much delight in hearing me i turned aside ulysses although he had longed to journey who grows used to me seldom departs i satisfy him so her lips were not yet done when there beside me a woman showed herself alert and saintly to cast the siren into much confusion oh virgil virgil tell me who is this most scornfully and he came forward his eyes intent upon that honest one he sees the other bearing her in front tearing her clothes and showing me her belly the stench that came from there awakened me i moved my eyes and my good master cried at least three times i've called you rise and come let's find the opening where you may enter okay all right so this is another dream"
    },
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      "text": "okay so again as virgil was kind of higher more and more visions come to him and this is a very strange dream right oh virgil the other day i thought she was like oh my gosh i'm so glad she's Because Donna is being seduced by the siren, the siren who seduced Ulysses. And then a woman barges in and shouts, Oh, Virgil, Virgil, tell me, who is this? And then Virgil comes forward, and then he seizes the siren and tears her clothes apart. What's going on here? Let's try to figure out what this dream is about. Remember, the last dream that Donna had was a vision from heaven, where Lucia, as an eagle, picks him up and delivers him to the gates of purgatory. What is going on here? And again, I don't know the answer. It's all interpretation, right? It's all speculation. So can someone tell me what is going on here? What is this dream about?"
    },
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      "text": "In our understanding of the divine comedy, who is the siren? Do you know what I mean? Okay, yeah, I know the siren is a woman, but I'm saying, like, so far in our story, who should be the siren? Yeah, it's Virgil, right? Okay? So if we see this, we think maybe it's Virgil, because Virgil is the one seducing Donna throughout, right? With his poetry. And throughout all this time, Donna has been a student, a child of Virgil's, right? Right? So it seems as though it sounds like Virgil is the one seducing Dante and leading him astray. But then something weird happens. Beatrice comes in. I think it's Beatrice. You know, maybe it's Beatrice. She's like, Virgil, Virgil, tell me, who is this? Where's Dante here?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes. When Virgil comes forward, he's behind Dante. So, um, because he's barring her in front, it's almost like he's hiding herself. And I think that when he's showing Dante her belly, it's a message from Beatrice saying like, you are, please don't get stillborn in Virgil, such that you would start to rot as a baby. And, um, the siren is like a love that has been left to fester. And that's why it, that's why it smells. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "That's really interesting. Okay. But first, answer me this question. Um, what should Beatrice be? Really saying, what should, what should Beatrice be saying to me? Nope. Nope. So, so it seems as though Don is being seduced, right? Beatrice comes in and what she should be saying rather than, Oh, Virgil, Virgil, tell me, who is this?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "And be like, she'll probably be like, she is pissed right now. Yeah."
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      "text": "She asked, quote, quote, squintfully. Yeah. But what is strange or paradoxical about what she's saying?"
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      "text": "Because Virgil should be the siren, but now there's another siren."
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      "text": "Yeah. Why is she talking to Virgil? Virgil should be talking to Dante, right? It's starting his dream. Beatrice is starting his beloved, right? This is a dream. So, so visualize this. Dante is staring at a siren. He's being seduced by the siren. Can you explain?"
    },
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      "text": "So in this dream, Dante is Virgil."
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      "text": "Yeah. And why is this a problem? Um, what does this tell, tell Dante?"
    },
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      "text": "It's a clarion call. It's a clarion call that he's gone too far in his bond with Virgil."
    },
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      "text": "Okay. Yes. Anyone else? Yes. I think in the moment when you have to kill your father as a man or whatever the case may be, um, that final moment is when you realize your greatest affinity with the father. So you're thinking, these are the things that make me like him. This is how I am him. And you use him as a final projection. You say, all right, I'm him, now I'm gonna, it's over."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah. Have you guys watched Star Wars? Right. You, I know you've watched Star Wars, but you remember the scene where, um, is it, is it episode two? Um, but, but you know, like, like Luke has to kill his father, right? So he kills someone, discovers it's his father. Right. When he opens it, it's, it's like himself. Right."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Okay."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "So it's playing to that idea. It doesn't make sense, guys. Okay. So, so that goes. That conversation, that, that dialogue between Dante and Virgil, it's a turning point now, because it sounds correct, but there's a part to it that Dante knows it's not correct. Okay. And now his connection to the divine is giving those images to show him it's not correct. In fact, the universe is now warning him, be aware of Virgil. You are now Virgil. Right. Okay. Does that make sense guys? Yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "It's especially because. After it's right after Virgil delivered his speech about love. And so Dante's almost like inhibiting his worldview to his right. So he's like becoming Virgil in that aspect. And especially like understanding love is like the most important thing for Dante that he gets it. Right."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yes, exactly. Yes. Thank you. Okay. All right. But, but you see how, like, once you connect the vine, the vine will steer you in the right direction. Do you, do you understand, like, what's important is to connect yourself to the divine food love once, once that happens, the vine will give you messages to show you the way, even though you, you may yourself may be corrupted. All right. Let's keep on going. Does anyone else want to add something to the stream? Because again, this is a very complex stream. Okay. I don't, I don't want to oversimplify it."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "Yes. Um, I think it's quite telling that Beatrice asked Virgil to identify the siren because it's kind of the love that we were talking about. That Virgil has that turns, uh, the ugly lady into a beautiful one, that the idea that he could possess her makes her beautiful when in fact it's, she's like sallow and, and ugly and malformed."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Um, uh, Anna."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Yeah. It also makes me think about this whole idea in the Greek tradition that the first two or three gods, like before Zeus, they were all father killing. So this idea of almost epitaph. This theory, like you have to kill your father to become yourself. It's also the turning point, like past 16, right? Like halfway to, uh, purgatory that your first half of your life is childhood. You're imitating your dad and you know, you want to be him or you battle him a little bit in teenage, you know, when you're a teenager. And then finally, I guess maybe this is the turning point in which he becomes adulthood, which is killing of one's father."
    },
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      "text": "Okay. Um, the other thing I will point out is like how the universe talks to you is through images. That evoke emotions, you understand, right? The images don't really mean that much. The images are meant to convey emotion to, to like provoke an emotion in you that leads you to a correct path. So, um, I mean, what I think my interpretation is this, okay. Uh, if I'm Dante, I see this dream and I'm extremely uncomfortable. I'm extremely, uh, anxious. And the reason. Why is I feel as though Beatrice and Virgil might become one with each other. Does that make sense? Because it's Virgil who goes and does Beatrice bidding. Okay. So, so it's one of like Virgil is my competitor now. You understand that's the emotion now before it's like versus my father. Now he's like, no, no, no, no. Virgil is my competitor. I need to watch out. I mean, like, if I really"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "want to keep Beatrice, I need to show, I am more worried than Virgil that I am more willing to do sacrifice myself for Beatrice."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 8820.38,
      "end": 8835.08,
      "time_label": "2:27:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Yeah. Which in a way is very complex too, right? And for the Freudian concept is that the first few years of your life and the little boy wants to imitate the father. And after that, he's like, oh, he's a competitor to my mom, you know, for me. So I have to kill him. So, right."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 8835.2,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay. But you see how, how with Dante. Okay. Just a few lines are so rich, right? They're so pregnant. You can go on and on trying to analyze what's going on, but there's so many different layers, right? Okay. So I think, you know, again, what's causing this dream is Virgil's exposition of love. Right. And Donnie, Donnie, his heart knows no, no, no, this is, this doesn't make any sense, but he doesn't know why it doesn't make any sense because he's not mature enough. Right. So, so the universe gives him these dreams that reveal to him Virgil is your competitor. Okay. Be wary of what he just said. Okay. Does it make sense, guys? Okay. All right. Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 8874.16,
      "end": 8926.3,
      "time_label": "2:27:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "I'm 37. I rose. The daylight had already filled the circles of the sacred mountain. We were journeying with new sun at our back. I followed him, bearing my brow like one whose thoughts have weighed him down, who bends as if he were this semiarch that forms a bridge. And then I heard, draw near, the past is here, said in a manner so benign and gentle as in our mortal land, one cannot hear. Okay. He who addressed us so had open wings, white as a swan's, and he directed us upward between two walls of the hard rock, and then he moved his plumes, and fanning us, affirmed that those qui lugent would be blessed, their souls would be possessed of consolation. What makes you keep your eyes upon the ground, my guide began to say to me when both of us had climbed a little past the angel. And I, what makes me move with such misgiving is a new vision."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 8926.36,
      "end": 8929.52,
      "time_label": "2:28:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "It has so beguiled me that I cannot relate. I have to relinquish thoughts of it."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "time_label": "2:28:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so again, this vision has unsettled Dante. Now he's forced to come to terms with both the emotion and the vision. Okay? Keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=8939s",
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      "start": 8939.13,
      "end": 8989.65,
      "time_label": "2:28:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "The one you saw, he said, that ancient witch, for her alone one must atone above. You saw how man can free himself from her. Let that suffice, and hurry on your way. Fasten your eyes upon the lyre that's spun by the eternal king with his great spheres. Just like a falcon who at first looks down, then when the falconer has called, bends forward, craving the food that's ready for him. There, so I became, and so remained until, through the cleft rock that lets one climb above, I reached the point at which the circle starts. When I was in the clearing, the fifth level, my eyes discovered people there who wept, lying upon the ground, all turned face down. Atesit pavimento anima mea. I heard them say with sighs so deep that it was hard to comprehend the words they spoke. O God's elect, whose sufferings both hope and justice make less difficult, direct us to the stairway meant for our ascent."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=8990s",
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      "start": 8990.13,
      "end": 9032.27,
      "time_label": "2:29:50",
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      "text": "If you come here but do not need to be prostrate, and you would find the path most quickly, then keep your right hand always to the outside. So did the poet ask, so did reply come from a little way ahead, and I, hearing that voice reply, learned what was hidden. I turned my eyes to find my master's eyes. At this, with a glad sign, he ratified what I had asked for with my eager eyes. When free to do as I had wanted to, I moved ahead and bent over that soul whose words before had made me notice him, saying, Spirit. Spirit. In whom weeping ripens that without which there is no return to God. So spend a while, for me your greater care. Tell me, who were you, and why are your backs turned up? And there where I, alive, set out, would you have me beseech some good for you?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=9032s",
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      "start": 9032.63,
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      "time_label": "2:30:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And he to me, why heaven turns our backs against itself, you are to know. But first, she is called Ego Fui, successor Petri. Between Sestri and Chiaveri descends a handsome river, and its name is set upon the upper portion of my crest. For one month and a little more I learned how the great mantle weighs on him who'd keep it out of the mire. All other weights seemed feathers. Alas, how tardy my conversion was! But when I had been named the Roman Shepherd, then I discovered the deceit of life. I saw that there the heart was not at rest, nor could I in that life ascend more high, so that in me love for this life was kindled. Until that point I was a squalid soul, for God divided holy avaricious. Now, as you see, I am punished here for that. When avarice enacts here, declared, is the purgation of converted souls, the mountain has no punishment more bitter."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=9087s",
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      "start": 9087.47,
      "end": 9109.35,
      "time_label": "2:31:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Just as we did not lift our eyes on high, but set our sight on earthly things instead, so justice here impels our eyes toward earth. As avarice annulled and announced the love of any other good, and thus we lost our chance for righteous works, so justice here fetters our hands and feet and holds us captive. And for as long as it may please our just Lord, here will be outstretched and motionless."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=9109s",
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      "start": 9109.39,
      "end": 9140.01,
      "time_label": "2:31:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so they are now in a terrace of greed or avarice, and they're talking to Pope Adrian, who said that as Pope he was extremely ambitious, he did whatever he could to climb the ladder of power, and now, after he repented, he is forced to basically lie on the ground to focus on the present, to focus on life. And Lord himself. Okay? All right, keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9140.31,
      "end": 9193.92,
      "time_label": "2:32:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Line 127. I had kneeled, wishing to speak, but just as I began, and through my voice alone, he sensed that I had meant to do him reverence. What reason makes you bend your body so, he said, and I to him. Your dignity made conscience sting me as I stood erect. Brother, straighten your legs, rise up, he answered. Don't be mistaken. I, with you and others, am but a fellow servant of one power. If you have ever understood the holy sound of the gospel that says, Neque nubent, then you will see why I have spoken so. Now go your way. I'd not have you stop longer. Your staying here disturbs my lamentations. The tears that help me ripen what you mentioned. Beyond, I have a niece whose name Elagia. She in herself is good, as long as our house, by example, brings her not to evil, and she alone is left to me beyond."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9194.26,
      "end": 9196.48,
      "time_label": "2:33:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, all right. Let's keep on going. Okay."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9206.79,
      "end": 9257.65,
      "time_label": "2:33:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Canto 20. Against a better will, the will fights weak, therefore to please him, though against my pleasure, I drew my unquenched sponge out of the water. I moved on, and my guide moved through the unencumbered space, hugging the rock as one walks on a wall close to the battlements. For those whose eyes would melt down drop by drop, the evil that possesses all the world were too close to the edge on the far side. May you be damned, O ancient wolf, whose power can claim more prey than all the other beasts. Your hungering is deep and ever ending. O heavens, through whose revolutions many things on earth are changed. When will he come, the one whose works will drive that wolf away? Our steps were short and slow as we moved on. I was attentive to the shades. I heard the sorrow in their tears and lamentations. Then I, by chance, heard one ahead of us crying in his lament, Sweet Mary, as a woman would outcry in labor pains."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9257.89,
      "end": 9301.59,
      "time_label": "2:34:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And he continued, In that hostel where you had set down your holy burden, there one could discover just how poor you were. Following this, I heard, O good Fabricius, you chose as your possessions indigence, with virtue, rather than much wealth, with vice. These words have been so pleasing to me, I moved forward so that I might come to know the spirit from whom they had seemed to come. He kept on speaking, telling the largesse of Nicholas, the gifts he gave the maidens so that they might be honorably wed. O soul who speaks of so much righteousness, do tell me who you were, I said, and why just you alone renew these seemly praises. Your speaking to me will not go unthanked when I return to finish the short span of that life which now hurries toward its end. And he,"
    },
    {
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      "start": 9301.77,
      "end": 9315.69,
      "time_label": "2:35:01",
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      "text": "I'll tell you, not because I hope for solace from your world, but for such grace as shines in you before your deaths arrived. I was the root of the obnoxious plant that overshadows all the Christian lands so that the fine fruit can rarely rise from them."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9315.73,
      "end": 9345.14,
      "time_label": "2:35:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so this, his name is Hugh Capet, and he is the founder of the current dynasty of the Holy Roman Empire, okay? So his family now controls the Holy Roman Empire. As we know, the Holy Roman Empire is at war with the Vatican. And this is causing all sorts of chaos throughout the world. So he's the root of that obnoxious family that is now overshadowing all Christian lands. Okay? And his name is Hugh Capet. Okay? All right."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9350.18,
      "end": 9405.06,
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      "text": "Line 46. But if Duay and Lille and Bruges and Ghent had power, they would soon take vengeance on it. And this I beg of him who judges all. The name I bore beyond was Hugh Capet. Of me was born the Louise and Phillips by whom France has been ruled most recently. I was the son of a Parisian butcher when all the line of ancient kings was done and only one, a monk in grey, survived. I found the reigns that ruled the kingdom tight within my hands and I held so much new gained power and possessed so many friends that, to the widowed crown, my own son's head was elevated and from him began the consecrated bones of all those kings. Until the giant dowry of Provence removed all sense of shame within my house, my line was not worth much but did no wrong. There its rapine began with lies and force and then it ceased that it might make mence, Pontieux and Normandy and Gascony."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9405.44,
      "end": 9457.82,
      "time_label": "2:36:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Charles came to Italy and for amends made Coradin a victim and then thrusts back Thomas into heaven for amends. I see a time, not too far off, in which another Charles advances out of France to make himself and his descendants famous. He does not carry weapons when he comes only the lance that Judas tilted, this he couches so he twists the paunch of Florence. From this he'll gain not land, just shame and sin, which will be all the heavier for him as he would reckon lightly such disgrace. The other, who once left his ship as prisoner, I see him sell his daughter, bargaining as pirates haggle over female slaves. Oh, Alvarez, my house is now your captive. It traffics in the flesh of its own children. What more is left for you to do to us? That past and future evil may seem less, I see the fleur -de -lis enter Anani and his vicar, Christ made prisoner."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=9458s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0327",
      "start": 9458.14,
      "end": 9509.54,
      "time_label": "2:37:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "I see him mocked a second time. I see the vinegar and gall renewed and he slain between two slaves who are still alive. And I see the new pilot, one so cruel that, still not stated, he without decree carries his greedy sails into the temple. Oh, you, my lord, when will you let me be happy on seeing vengeance that concealed makes sweet your anger and your secrecy? What have I said about the only bride the Holy Ghost has known, the words that made you turn to me for commentary? These words serve as answer to our prayers as long as it is day. But when night falls, when we recite examples that are contrary, then we tell over how Pygmalion, out of his greedy lust for gold, became a thief and traitor and a parasite. The wretchedness of Aversus Midas resulting from his ravenous request, the consequence that always makes men laugh."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9509.74,
      "end": 9564.16,
      "time_label": "2:38:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And each of us recalls the foolish Achan, how he had robbed the spoils so that the anger of Joshua still seems to sting him here. Then we accuse Sapphira and her husband, we praise the cakes Peliodorus suffered, and Palmnester, who killed Polydorus, resounds in infamy around all this mountain. And finally, what we cry here is, Crassus, tell us, because you know how does gold taste. At times, one speaks aloud, another low, according to the sentiment that goads us now to be more swift and now more slow. Thus I was not alone in speaking of the good we cite by day, but here nearby no other spirit raised his voice as high. We had already taken leave of him, and were already struggling to advance along that road as far as we were able, when I could feel the mountain tremble like a failing thing, at which a chill seized me as cold grips one who goes to Midas death."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=9564s",
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      "start": 9564.8,
      "end": 9616.92,
      "time_label": "2:39:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Delos had surely not been buffeted so hard before Latona planted there the nest in which to bear the sky's two eyes. Then such a shout rose up on every side that drawing near to me my master said, don't be afraid as long as I'm your guide. Gloria in excelsis Deo, they all cried, so did I understand from those nearby whose shouted words were able to be heard. Just like the shepherds who first heard that song, we stood but did not move in expectation until the trembling stopped, the song was done. Then we took up again our holy power on the path, watching the shades who lay along the ground who had resumed their customary tears. My ignorance has never struggled so, has never made me long so much to know if memory does not mislead me now, as it seemed then to belong within my thoughts, nor did I dare to ask."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9617.02,
      "end": 9623.34,
      "time_label": "2:40:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "We were so rushed, nor by myself could I discern the cause, so timid, pensive, I pursued my way."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "start": 9623.44,
      "end": 9704.78,
      "time_label": "2:40:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so two points. The first point is that, again, there's a lot of symmetry in Dante, so this mirrors in Paradise where Peter, the first pope, he lambasts, he criticizes the Catholic Church, right? Well, the founder of the current Holy Roman Empire, Hugh Cabat, criticizes his own family and demands divine justice, divine retribution for all their crimes. Second point is like, as they're climbing up the mountain, there's an earthquake, it shakes. The reason why the mountain does that is whenever a soul completes his purgation, that soul is admitted into heaven and the universe celebrates with an earthquake, okay? To signify that a soul has been released and will now ascend to heaven. Okay, and next counter, we will meet the soul and I want you to pay careful attention to how the soul interacts with Virgil because this soul, his name is Statius, okay? Statius. So, the symmetry, okay? So, remember before, Virgil met Sudello, okay?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9704.78,
      "end": 9782.79,
      "time_label": "2:41:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "This is Virgil. Sudello is a troubadour, which is to say he is a love, he's a poet of the quality love tradition and he was living around the time of Dante, okay? Maybe the 13th century, okay? So, do you remember when Virgil met with Sudello, what it was like? Yeah, they were from the same place. What else? Okay, and Sudello bowed before Virgil, right? And how did Virgil feel about all this? He was ecstatic, right? He was ecstatic, okay? And now what's going to happen is this, Virgil is going to meet Statius and Statius is, he is a Latin poet, okay? A Latin epic poet, very similar to Virgil, okay? And Statius, worships Virgil. And how does Virgil feel about this? What would you guess? Yeah, he'd be very, he'd be happy as well, right? Well, if Sudello worshiped Virgil, you would think another poet worshiping Virgil, Virgil would have the same reaction, but it's the opposite reaction, okay?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "start": 9783.01,
      "end": 9788.33,
      "time_label": "2:43:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "He is not happy about this. Okay, so let's read Canto 21, okay?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=9790s",
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      "start": 9790.63,
      "end": 9843.59,
      "time_label": "2:43:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Canto 21. The natural thirst that never can be quenched except by water that gives grace, the drop that the simple woman of Samaria sought tormented me. Haze spurred me on the path crowded with souls behind my guide, and I felt pity, though their pain was justified. And here, even as Luke records for us that Christ knew, risen from his burial cave, appeared to two along his way, a shade appeared, and he advanced behind our backs while we were careful not to trample on the outstretched crowd. We did not notice him until he had addressed us with, God give you, O my brothers, peace. We turned at once, then after offering suitable response, Virgil began, and may that just tribunal which has consigned me to eternal exile place you in peace within the blessed assembly. What? He exclaimed as we moved forward quickly. If God's not deemed you worthy of assent, who's guided you so far along his stairs?"
    },
    {
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0335",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=9844s",
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      "start": 9844.11,
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      "time_label": "2:44:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "If you observe the signs the angel traced upon this man, my teacher said, you'll see plainly he's meant to reign with all the righteous, but since she who spends nights with him and night and day had not yet spun this spool that clotho sets upon the distaff and adjusts for everyone, his soul, the sister of your soul and mine, in its ascent, could not alone have climbed here, for it does not see the way we see. Therefore I was brought forth from hell's broad jaws to guide him in his going. I shall lead him just as far as where I teach can reach. But tell me if you can, why? Just before the mountain shook and shouted all of it, for so it seemed down to its sea -bathed shore. His question threaded so the needle's eye of my desire that just the hope alone of knowing left my thirst more satisfied."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9889.24,
      "end": 9944.42,
      "time_label": "2:44:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "The other shade began. The sanctity of these slopes does not suffer anything that's without order or uncustomary. This place is free from every perturbation what heaven from itself and in itself receives may serve us cause here, no thing else. Therefore no rain, no hail, no snow, no dew, no hoarfrost falls here any higher than the stairs of entry with their three brief steps. Neither thick clouds nor thin appear nor flash of lightning Thaumas's daughter who so often shifts places in our world is absent here. Dry vapor cannot climb up any higher than to the top of the three steps of which I spoke where Peter's vicar plants his feet. Below that point there may be small or ample tremors but here above I know not why no wind concealed in earth has ever caused a tremor for it only trembles here when some soul feels its cleanse so that it rises or stirs to cleanse and to climb on high and that shout follows."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9944.66,
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      "time_label": "2:45:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "The will alone is proof of purity and fully free surprises soul into a change of dwelling place effectively. Soul had the will to climb before but that will was opposed by longing to do penance as once to sin instilled by divine justice. And I who have lain in this suffering five hundred years and more just now have felt my free will for a better threshold."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:46:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, stop, okay. Why are souls being punished in purgatory? Soul had the will to climb before but that will was opposed by longing to do penance instilled by divine justice. Why are souls suffering in purgatory? What do these three lines mean? Anyone?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:46:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "Fred? I think it's to test whether their mindset is true and whether their mindset is different from those in hell and that it's changed."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:46:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, read the lines to yourself, okay? And tell me, try to paraphrase these lines, okay? Anna?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 10020.68,
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      "time_label": "2:47:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "I said they had the will to climb before but that will was opposed by longing to do penance. That means they want to climb but it's not wanting to do penance. So that's why it's..."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Nope, nope. What does he mean here? Why are they being punished?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:47:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Yes? Well, they have to cleanse themselves of their sin because their sin, the weight of their sin is weighing them down to climb further."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Why do they have to do that, though?"
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Well, if they don't cleanse themselves then they can't advance. Says who?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "You, yourself. Excuse me? Yourself. Yourself. You understand the idea here. What this is saying is this. Yes, we have the desire to climb but we also want to make ourselves worthy of God. It's not God punishing us. It's we're punishing ourselves to make ourselves worthy of God. We are cleansing ourselves of our sins by doing penance. Do you understand? This idea of complete free will. No one's making you do these punishments. You want to do these punishments because they make you a better person. And when you face God, you want to be the best person possible. You don't want to have any doubt. You don't want to have any sin in you. Okay? I mean, it's like going to the prom and like, you know, dressing up really, really nicely. Okay? You want to be your best. And that's why you do penance. That's why you suffer. Okay? Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 10112.13,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Seventy. Thus you heard the earthquake and the pious spirits throughout the mountain as they praised the Lord, and may He send them speedily upward. So did He speak to us. And just as joy is greater when we quench a greater thirst, the joy He brought cannot be told in words. And my wise guide, I now can see the net impeding you, how one slips through and why it quakes here and what makes you all rejoice. And now may it please you to tell me who you were in your words. May I find why you've lain here for so many centuries."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Seventy -eight years, yet you have yet to be saved, and yet you've to be saved. May He be with you. I was told, in fact, by God, through His hands, that we would be saved. But, do you know what? The Lord will save you."
    },
    {
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      "text": "this is this is emotional state okay keep on going 82 in that age when the worthy titus with help from the highest king avenged the wounds from which the blood that judas sold had flowed"
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      "text": "and what year is this when worthy titus eventual wounds from which the blood that judas sold had flowed do you guys know what year this is do you guys not not not know your christian history no it's 70 do you understand 70 70 is the is the year when the romans burned down the second temple okay titus is the emperor and he burned down the second temple all right and the christians believe this is vengeance for the crucifixion of jesus all right keep on going in 85 i had sufficient fame"
    },
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      "text": "beyond that spirit replied i bore the name that lasts the longest and honors most but faith was not yet mine so gently i will be your king i remember then and ever it was better in all ways than zero that i may remember until i was tripped over with the love of the earth on earth it seemed i had lived the more than one million years of arts which is a huge sum i have so many of my concealer i can't mention an inch well i've even mentioned quantitative on how many months you might expect that to be an hour a thousand forsaken how would you like for that i would extend by one more year the time i owe before my exiles end okay so so like what"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "he's saying is this okay the guy spent 500 years in the same crap over and over to make himself worthy of god and but there's one person he admires more than god and it's virgil right because virgil is the holy fire and he says you know what if i had a chance to meet virgil just once i would keep on going for another year okay and virgil is next to him right so how is virgil feeling right now he's ecstatic right he'd be like oh wow i'm virgil yeah i'm god yeah wow i'm the holy fire yeah i nursed you yeah that's me man okay you understand okay all right and now we're gonna read this and and appreciate there's no way donnie could have created virgil you have to summon virgil okay because it's too real okay keep on reading"
    },
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      "text": "verse 103 these words made virgil turn to me and as he turned his face through silence said be still and yet the powerful cannot do all for tears and smiles are both so faithful to the feelings that have prompted them that true feeling escapes the will that would subdue but i smile like a man whose eyes would signal at this the shade was silent and he stared where sentiment"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "is clearest at my eyes stop sorry okay this is really important okay you guys do you guys know what's going on here this is you have to actually seen this yourself you can actually just make this"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "stuff up what's going on here yes fred virgil is like i'm not better than god this guy's like too much of a super fan dante please don't leak it yes but dante's eyes are so like wide yeah and the the the shades just like look at him it's like it's like in a pantomime where he's like he's behind you or something yes and the shade and he basically betrays virgil's identity to the shade just"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "because it's expression so much happens right and so much emotion so realistic and it's all just like micro expressions right it's just like the like you know like the um like virgil's just like a quick look at him right he doesn't even say anything he's like just a quick look like you know and then virgil and then donnie's like like like he can't stop himself he's just full of emotion and status looks and says hmm you know something okay all right so this is all really realistic all right um keep on going line 112 and said so may your"
    },
    {
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      "text": "trying labor end successfully do tell me why just now your face showed me the flashing of a smile now i am held by one side and the other one keeps me still the other conjures me to speak but when therefore i sigh my master knows why and tells me do not be afraid to speak but speak and answer what he has asked you to tell him with such earnestness at this i answered ancient spirit you perhaps are wondering at the smile i smiled but i would have you feel still more surprised he who is guide who leads my eyes on highest that same virgil from whom you derived the power to sing of men and of the gods do not suppose my smile had any source beyond the speech you spoke be sure it was those who believed in you who were the ones who have the power to sing of men and of the"
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      "text": "gods do not suppose my smile had any source beyond the speech you spoke of him that were the cause now he had bent to kiss my teacher's feet but virgil told him brother there's no need your shade a shade is what you see and rising he now you can understand how much love burns in me for you when i forget our insubstantiality treating the shades as one treats solid things okay all right again the contrast right when"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "where sudolo meets virgil virgil tells him right away i'm virgil and so i was wow man i'm your biggest fan and then sudol bows before virgil and virgil's ecstatic now sadius is like i'm your biggest fan and virgil's like oh okay like he doesn't want him to know i'm virgil and then uh uh donnie tells him and studies kisses his feet okay he lowers himself and kisses the feet of virgil right you remember where where you know um when sort of solo talks to virgil virgil's like yeah i'll give my autograph and let's do a selfie and like you know virgil is like just loving the moment but here virgil's like could you please stop just stop man just stop right why is virgil behaving like this and again it's impossible to"
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      "text": "create a virgil you have to summon this guy yes i think because he realizes that it's like really hitting in his head that his poetry is kind of undermining the true message of the universe and so like he's like if i if my work has made someone at the very height of purgatory act this way it just kind of makes him feel embarrassed and he's like this really isn't what i should have done i should not have inspired someone to behave this way and it's kind of making him self -conscious about what he wanted before"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "okay yes and also this act of kissing someone's feet is what happens in the bible where uh a woman with her hair she wipes his feet with oil and kisses his feet so it's kind of the same act of worshiping god in a way and this guy is literally going to god in a split second but he's like oh by the way before that you're better than god and then he makes virgil's like oh my gosh i hope this guy doesn't get sent back to somewhere or like get into trouble or maybe i"
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      "text": "don't know yeah okay but then why why is virgil you just you're saying that virgil's a humble guy but when sordello kisses the bowels before him virgil's ecstatic right there's a paradox here and the symmetry shows you there's a paradox to explain what's going on and the answer is not because you know he's embarrassed at the idea that he's god he's not he wants to be god right um why is he behaving like this yes does he resent that this guy's going to heaven why would he resent this guy going to heaven he didn't resent sordello going to heaven right why would he resent this guy stadia's going to heaven he's also a pagan poet yeah right you understand okay remember how awkward it is for virgil to meet with cato right virgil doesn't really really doesn't want to talk to cato again he really doesn't want to talk to him they hate each other"
    },
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "text": "here okay it's different because that is worships virgil but virgil really doesn't want to talk to him because he's a pain he's not supposed to go to heaven you understand like he is a woman epic poet he is a pagan who do not convert same as virgil so if you're virgil you're like uh what's going on here right okay so let's think about this okay um we talked how when k when virgil met cato virgil just engaged in cognitive dissonance right he just forgot that kato is a pagan okay but here he is able to recognize the fact that yes uh status is a pagan and i'm a pagan and he's better than i am how is he able to do do this okay okay um we're gonna have time but but but like i'll throw an idea out there for you guys okay you cannot fool yourself ever okay you think you can fool"
    },
    {
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      "text": "yourself but you cannot fool yourself ever why because you exist in infinite dimensions and in some parts you're you still know the truth in most parts you may not know the truth does that make sense okay remember this remember this there's no way you can ever fool yourself maybe you can fool everyone in the world but you cannot fool yourself okay so virgil in his heart he does know that um it is not true that pagans cannot go to heaven it is not true at all he knows that but he does not want to admit it to dante because he's more he's more concerned about his face than he is about the truth okay doesn't make sense uh yes but that still doesn't explain why doesn't why so humble about him worshiping him he's not humble he's just annoyed okay okay so imagine this okay like imagine this so we've been here for two weeks"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "okay and then and then what was your name okay ivy okay 20 years later we ivy and i run into each other um in new york city who paris who cares okay but like we're walking the streets and like and like i'm walking and like she sees me and like she recognized me and says hey uh professor jiang uh you remember me i'm like i don't remember you uh and then she's like oh and then she goes on like oh we we took the seminar and like yeah i remember you you you you know you were shy you were very smart yeah sure and i'm very happy because she remembers me and obviously the course had a huge huge impact on her and i asked her so ivy uh what are you doing now and she says oh i'm teaching dante at harvard or or yale okay what do i do now sorry i have"
    },
    {
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      "text": "i have an appointment see you later ivy okay i'm not why would i do that like sorry uh i have an appointment right now i'll talk to you later"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "why would i do that well if you're virgil then i guess you're jealous but if you'd be dante then you'd be happy for her right so it's my problem you think well yeah i mean you could be happy for her but you can also be jealous"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "that you didn't make it that far yeah i mean i think everyone would be a bit jealous right it's not like dante or virgil it's just like human nature it's just human nature yeah okay so so again that's why i said like virgil's cannot be created he can only be summoned because his reaction is so human right okay it's very hard to make something like this up you you you need to have like seen it yourself to under to appreciate this okay does it doesn't make sense okay so virgil is really angry and really jealous at status because status has reached um heaven"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "but it's also it's also in about the it's kind of like a burden right because he says there's no need you're a shade a shade is what you see i'm like like he the studies puts like a burden on virgil and virgil can't really deal with that because like he can't deal with the with the love of stat yeah and it's also like absurd right"
    },
    {
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      "text": "you're both like shades right so if you kneel down i can't actually feel you kissing my feet"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "like this is absurd yes i guess the other thing other than summoning virgil that he could have done in real life if dante met beatrice's husband so the historically she married she died young but married like a banker yeah that's right so it's like if the banker came to maybe dante felt this for one second like the bank came to dante like i'm your biggest fan of all time and he's like well you married my one true love and then she died so like how much can you i don't really care"
    },
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      "text": "that you're my fan or upset yeah yeah it's just human nature okay and that's why the line comedy is something that resonates with you okay you just feel it's true and it gives you tremendous insight into yourself as well as uh human nature and you know it's just a natural reaction right um okay the other thing i will point out is okay okay we'll we'll keep on reading 21 okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "oh 22 now yeah sure kanto 22 the angel now has left behind us he who had directed us to six terrorists having erased one p that scarred my face he had declared that those who long for justice have been killed and his voice concluded that message with sitiunt without the rest and while i climbed behind the two swift spirits not laboring at all for i was lighter than i had been along the other stairs virgil began love that is kindled by virtue virtue will in another find reply as long as that love's flame appears without so from the time when juvenile descending among us and hell's limbo had made plain the fondness that you felt for me my own benevolence towards you has been much richer than any ever given to a person one has not seen thus now these stairs seem short but tell me and as a friend forgive me if excessive candor"
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      "text": "lets my reins relax and as a friend exchange your words with me how is it that you found within your breast a place for avarice when you possess the wisdom you had nurtured with such care these words at first brought something of a smile to statias then he answered every word you speak to me is a dear sign of love indeed true causes are concealed we often face deceptive reasoning and things provoke perplexity in us your question makes me sure that you're convinced perhaps because my circle was the fifth that in the life i once left avarice had been my sin no then that i was far from avarice it was my lack of measure thousands of months have punished and if i had not corrected my assessment by my understanding what your verses meant when you as if it raged by human nature exclaimed why cannot you a holy hunger for gold respond to"
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      "text": "me and i am not the only one who is not the only one who is drain the appetite of mortals i'd now while rolling weights no sorry jousts then i became aware that hands might open too wide like wings and spending of and of this as of my other sins i did repent how many are to rise again with heads crop clothes whom ignorance prevents from reaching repentance in and at the end of life and know that when a sin is countered by another fault directly opposite to it then hear both sins see their green wither thus i join those who pay for avarice in my words but i am going to go now into a light on that which is the Holy Spirit's divinest of all nations so then i will go now into a light and will bless the holy spirit that has come forward you see that there is nothing to be"
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      "text": "worried about or to be afraid of you start the prayer that i am going to recite your spirit is like a spirit that changes the inside and out within you see that you are a spirit that even though you were able to open the to drink within parnassus's caves and you the first two after god enlightened me you did as he who goes by night and carries the lamp behind him he's of no help to his own self but teaches those who follow when you declared the ages are renewed justice and man's first time on earth return from heaven a new progeny descends through you i was a poet and through you a christian but that you may see more plainly i'll set my hand to color what i sketch okay all right so um so virgil asked"
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      "text": "sadius why are you in the terrace of avarice and sadius replied okay you may think that i was greedy in life but i was the opposite in fact i was wasteful but it's the laws of nature that one extreme that you the two extremes are basically the same thing okay so if you are really greedy but if you are very wasteful it's the same thing and so the punishment is the same okay and then um what virgil asked him is how did you come to this place because in virgil's understanding only christians are allowed access to heaven and what virgil sorry what sadius says is well i convert it secretly yeah i convert it secretly um and who convinced him to convert to Christianity you are..."
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      "text": "well yet poets and to you a christian yeah this is a paradox right we know"
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      "text": "virgil is not a christian in fact he's an anti -christian almost and so sad is he saying like for you i became a poet and we know because he keeps on quoting the inead okay he just memorized the inead he just he keeps on quoting the in the end he says like for you i've been able to trust the walrus to become a christian but we know the iniad how does this make any sense yeah yeah using any it's"
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      "text": "the structure of empire that has kind of made it all kind of spread so powerfully okay maybe"
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      "text": "okay anyone else yes the mercy of christ becomes so much more apparent that it's the true way and it's like the divine truth when you're immersed in the in need so in the final moment when ania i'm not finding but the major moment where neos kills turnus if you're really moved by that and you meditate on that moment for a long time and you think what would it have to be for turnus for for a neist not to kill turnus what mercy would he have had to have that would have turned you"
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      "text": "made you look for a preacher that would have changed your mind yeah that's that's great that's fantastic okay that's exactly what status is saying here i read the in the ad and the themes and ideas that you um tell in the in the ad convinced me that i must turn to christ but okay didn't virgil write the in the ad so why didn't why didn't virgil embrace christianity the way that status embraced christianity versus a poet status is a reader what's going on here it's like he changed the"
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      "text": "ending like virgil ruined the ending of the aeneid which made it so powerful for empire but ruined what could have been the christian prelude yeah but you just said that they moved status to"
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      "text": "convert to christianity what's going on here it can move everybody except virgil he's like the"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "unluckiest guy in the world where is this luck well maybe it's i don't know anyone else he also"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "follows saying in 74 that but that you may see more plainly i set my hand to color what i sketch oh no no no he's trying to explain his life oh okay yeah yeah yeah he'll explain his life story"
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      "text": "and how the exact details of how he converted okay so let's try to figure this out okay all right so remember the poets are channeling the divine fire the holy fire okay and the poetry is meant to um capture the holy fire so that others can be illuminated by it okay so you're trying to create this vessel um but we have free will so we can do whatever we want and then virgil became seduced by power so he turned this vessel into a weapon for empire okay but but the so basically before the vessel was meant to be like a um like a glass where everyone can just feel the light but now it's like this bronze vessel a weapon okay but the holy fire is so strong that there are things that leak out and if you're willing if you are a receptive enough reader you're able to still feel that light and that"
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      "text": "light will draw you to christianity doesn't make sense okay but the poet has committed evil and sin by trapping the holy fire and so the poet um um is convinced that this vessel that this weapon he's created is actually for good reasons and so this kind of dissonance blinds the poet from seeing the holy light does that make sense guys okay that's why stadius can be converted by the iniat but virgil cannot be converted by the iniat okay fred did you want to add something or it just i keep my mind keeps going back to the moment when"
    },
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      "text": "aeneas sees palace's sword belt and in the aeneid that's so um the aeneid portrays like aeneas he's really sad he's really upset he's so close to showing mercy to turnus but then he sees the sword belt of his friend this young man and he sees the sword belt of his friend this young man guy palace who turnus had killed and it's almost it's like the divine light leaking out it's like virgil going i wish i could i wish i had written i wish i want to write it the aeneas shows mercy but it's almost like seeing the sword belt of one of your comrades is the is empire yeah it's like the people that come before you you're trying to propagate your empire for them and that's what makes him change so it's like virgil's trying to say that he wished he wished he hadn't written that but he did and he did and he"
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      "text": "did and he did and he did and he did and he did and he did and he"
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      "text": "just did yeah and virgil did say he didn't he wished he didn't write that because he wanted to burn the manuscript right so so yeah so that's what's going on here okay all right let's let's"
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      "text": "keep on reading line 76 disseminated by the messages messengers of the eternal kingdom the true faith by then had penetrated all the world and the new preachers preached in such accord with what you'd said and i have just repeated that i was drawn into frequenting them then they appeared to me to be so saintly that when domitian persecuted them my own laments accompanied their grief and while i could as long as i had live i helped them and their honest practices made me disdainful of all other sects before within my poem i'd led the greeks onto the streams of thebes i was baptized but out of fear i was a secret christian and for a long time showed myself as pagan for this half -heartedness for more than four centuries i circled the fourth circle and now may you who lifted up the lid that hid from me the good of which i speak while"
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      "text": "time has left us as we climb tell me where's our ancient terror and to celia's and plautus where is various if you know tell me if they're damned and in what quarter all these in purchase i and many other my guide replied are with that greek to whom the muses gave their gifts in greatest measure our place is the blind prison its first circle and there we often talk about the mountain where those who were our nurses always dwell your reputations is with us antiphon simonides and agathon as well as many other greeks who once wore laurel upon their brow and the greeks who once wore laurel upon their brow and the greeks who once wore laurel upon their brow and the greeks and their of your own people once the antigone day feel it is many sad still argia as she was there one can see the woman who showed langia and their to"
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      "text": "to razia's daughter there's fetus and with her sisters their data mia both poets now were silent once again intent on their surroundings they were free of stairs and walls with days first four handmaidens already left behind and with the fifth guiding the chariot pull and lifting it so that its horn of flame rose always in front of them is higher my master said i think it's time that we turn our right shoulders toward the terrace edge circling the mountain in the way we're used to in this way habits served us as a banner and when we chose that path our fear was less because that worthy soul gave his ascent those two were in the lead i walked alone behind them listening to their colloquy which taught me much concerning poetry but their delightful conversation soon was interrupted by a tree that blocked our path its fruits were fine their scent was sweet and even"
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      "text": "as a fir tree tapers upward from branch to branch that tree there tapered downward so as i think to ward off any climber upon our left where wall enclosed our path rich bright running water fell from the high rock and spread itself upon the leaves above when the two poets had approached the tree a voice emerging from within the leaves cried out this food shall be denied to you then it cried mary's care is not enough it was for the marriage feast being seemingly and complete not for her mouth which now would intercede for you and when they when they drank of old the roman women were satisfied with water and young daniel through his disdain of food acquired wisdom the first age was as fair as gold when hungry men found the taste of acorns good when thirsty they found that every little stream was nectar when he was in the wilderness the baptist"
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      "text": "had fed on nothing more than honey locust for this he was made great as glorious as in the gospel is made plain to you okay so they arrive"
    },
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      "text": "in a terrace of gluttony and the glutton in the terse of gluttony there's a tree with lots of fruit and the sinners just look at it and they're not able to touch it and they become much more hungry and as it may say that over time okay so really important point is there's a paradox right how is status who is a pagan how is he able to ascend heaven and what he tells Virgil is well I converted secretly no one knows this but I converted secretly and yeah that was lazy of me that was slothful that's so lack of faith and that's why I was in the terrace of sloth for four centuries and this seems as though this relieves the paradox right the soft spellers work because he converted secretly well the problem here okay let's go to paradise 20 you the paradise 20 everyone and in paradise 20 there is going to be"
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      "text": "to be an eagle okay and then this eagle are the great kings of time okay including David and one of them one of these people is with yes okay with yes and with yes is a Trojan a Tyrian what's THE PROBLEM? there's no way this could've happened right is this this is not just before the time of Jesus it's also people rule of time of the Hebrews man so like this is really confusing now for us okay so can we read color disco to go please 20 and we'll skip to galactic worship 37 okay... 27... 18... This is the ego of light talking to Dante and saying, like, who is the most worthy to be inside me, okay? Mine, 37."
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      "text": "He who gleams in the center of my eyes' pupil, he was the singer of the Holy Spirit who bore the ark from one town to another. Now he has learned the merit will can earn. His song had not been spurred by grace alone, but his own will in part had urged him on. Of those five flames that arching for my brow, he who is nearest to my beak is one who comforted the widow for her son. Now he has learned the price one pays for not following Christ through his experience of this sweet life and of its opposite."
    },
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      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so there are certain individuals within this ego who are divine and holy, okay? The first one is David. That makes sense. Second one is Trajan, who is a Roman emperor. Let's keep on going. 49."
    },
    {
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      "text": "49. And he whose place is next on the circumference of which I speak along the upward arc delayed his death through truthful penance, now he has learned that the eternal judgment remains unchanged, though a worthy prayer below makes what falls to you today take place tomorrow."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so Trajan converted to Christianity, yes. Okay, that makes sense. Keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "55. The next two follows one whose good intention bore evil fruit to give place to the shepherd with both the lost and me made himself Greek. Now he has learned that even though the world be ruined by the evil that derives from his good act, that evil does not harm him. He whom you see, along the downward arc was William, and the land that mourns his death for living Charles and Frederick now laments. Now he has learned how heaven loves the just ruler, and he would show his this outwardly as well, so radiantly visible. Who in the erring world below would hold that he who was the fifth among the lights that formed the circle was the Trojan Rufus. Now he has learned much that the world cannot discern of God's own grace, although his sight cannot divine not reach its deepest sight. As if it were, where a lark at large in air, a"
    },
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      "text": "lark that sings at first and then falls still, content with final sweetness that fulfills, such seems -"
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "text": "Okay, stop, okay, all right. So again, this makes sense until we get to the fifth and last person who is Rufus. And what the eagle says is like, okay, well, Rufus, he was born before the time of Jesus, so he could not convert it. Trojan was born after Jesus, so he could not convert it. How do we explain Rufus? This is a huge paradox, right? Again, it's one thing for Stadius to convert secretly, and then he goes to purgatory, then through 500 years of penance, he climbs to heaven. But up here in paradise is Rufus, a Trojan who was born before the time of both the Hebrews and of Jesus, and he makes it to heaven. How is this possible? Okay. For, yeah. Um, uh, yes."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "I mean, that just shows, like, Virgil, uh, Dante's democratic sense, right? Everyone can make it to heaven if they really will it, like, if they really want to."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, okay. But Rufus couldn't have willed it because he didn't even know heaven exists, right? He didn't know Jesus exists. He didn't know God exists. He doesn't know that stuff."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Yeah, but you can still follow your intuition and know what's good and right. Like, you don't need the knowledge of heaven. You just need to be a good human. Exactly. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Does that make sense? Okay, so that's what Dante is saying. It's revolutionary, okay? It can really counteract the point that Virgil makes, which is, like, you have to be a Christian in order to make it to heaven. So let me ask you this question. Why is Virgil so adamant? Why is he so focused on this world? And why is Dante like, actually, no?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Because it's basically his mask or excuse of not making it to heaven. He's like, oh, they kind of excluded me because I was just born at a wrong time, okay? It's not my fault. Like, Jesus was so much later than me. It's, you know, taking the blame off him. But then now everybody else way older than him, before him, who had never met Jesus, or the concept of Hebrews, they went to heaven. It's like kind of a slap in the face. It's like, you're just basically not a good enough guy, okay? Like, to make it to heaven, face it, guy. Like, don't, you know."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yeah."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Find excuse."
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      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "text": "Exactly. So he's constantly excusing himself, right? He'd rather, again, burn in hell than just to admit he's wrong. Riffius is interesting because who creates Riffius' character? Virgil. Dante only knows about Riffius because of Virgil. Can we Google this? Let's Google Riffius and see what comes up, okay? Oh. Okay, okay. So just read, not the comedy, the, sorry. Can we go back? Okay. Yeah, just read that part, okay?"
    },
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      "text": "Riffius was a Trojan hero in the name of a figure from the Aeneid of Virgil."
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      "text": "Okay, this is why we know this guy. Virgil created this guy, okay? And quite honestly, all Virgil says is, he is the most virtuous of all the Trojans. That's the entire line in the Aeneid. He's not a major character, okay? So can we write what Virgil writes? Just open up, you know."
    },
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      "text": "Virgil writes, uniquely the most just of all the Trojans, the most faithful preserver of equity, but the gods decided otherwise."
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      "text": "Okay, so this is a jab at Virgil, right? Virgil says, yeah, he's the wisest, the most just of the Trojans, and the gods didn't care. And Dante's like, no, the gods do care. Thank you very much. If you are righteous, if you are just, if you're virtuous, you will always go to heaven regardless of time and space. Regardless of your belief. Okay? Regardless of what Virgil says. Okay? So again, the divine comedy is a rejection of Virgil, but is also born of Virgil. Okay? It's like the father -son relationship. Okay. Let's go back to purgatory."
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      "text": "One. Oh, I think are we done with this one? Yes. Yeah, we're done. Yeah."
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      "start": 12350.55,
      "end": 12363.6,
      "time_label": "3:25:50",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "23. Okay. So you can see how clever Dante is, right? He doesn't tell you outright, but he gives you these clues. And once you put the clues together, the answer is pretty obvious."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12364s",
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      "start": 12364.66,
      "end": 12411.22,
      "time_label": "3:26:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Canto 23. When I was peering so intently through the green boughs, like a hunter who so used would waste his life in chasing after birds, my more than father said to me, Now come, son, for the time our journey can commit is to be used more fruitfully than this. I turned my eyes, and I was no less quick to turn my steps. I followed those two sages whose talk was such, my going brought no less. And there, la be a man domine, was wept and sung and heard in such a manner that it gave birth to both delight and sorrow. O gentle father, what is this I hear asked? And he, perhaps, there shades who go loosening the knot of what they owe, even as pensive pilgrims do, who, when they've overtaken folk unknown to them along the way, will turn but will not stop. So overtaking us, they had come from behind but were more swift, a crowd of souls."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0421",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12411s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0421",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0421",
      "start": 12411.46,
      "end": 12462.06,
      "time_label": "3:26:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Devout and silent looked at us in wonder. Each shade had dark and hollow eyes. Their faces were pale and so emaciated that their taut skin took its shape from bones beneath. I don't believe that even Erechzothon had been so dried down to his very hide by hunger when his fast made him fear most. Thinking, I told myself, I see the people who lost Jerusalem when Mary plunged her beak into her son. The orbits of their eyes seemed like a ring that's lost its gems, and he who... Who, in the face of man, would read Omo, would here have recognized the M. Who, if he knew not how, would have believed that longing born from odor of a tree, odor of water, could reduce soul so. I was already wondering what had so famished them, for I had not learned the reason for their leanness and sad scurf."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0422",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12462s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0422",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0422",
      "start": 12462.06,
      "end": 12497.8,
      "time_label": "3:27:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "When there, a shade, his eyes deep in his head, turned toward me, staring steadily, and then he cried aloud, what grace has granted me. I never would have recognized him by his face, and yet his voice made plain to me what his appearance had obliterated. This spark rekindled in me everything I knew about those altered features. Thus, I realized it was Pharaes' face. Ah, don't reproach me for the dried out scabs that stained my skin, he begged, nor for the lack of flesh on me, but do tell me the truth about yourself. Do tell me who those two souls there are, those who are escorting you. May you not keep yourself from speaking to me."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0423",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12497s",
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      "end": 12536.57,
      "time_label": "3:28:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, stop, okay. All right, so Pharaes, Pharaes, Bonatti, Pharaes, Bonatti, he is actually Donnie's childhood best friend. He's also a poet, and they enjoy making fun of each other through their poetry. Pharaes' sister is Picarda. We met Picarda in heaven. His brother's also Corso, okay? Corso is the brother who adopted Picarda from the convent, because Corso was intent on power. And Corso will eventually die and burn in hell, okay? But Pharaesi is a very important character."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0424",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12542s",
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      "start": 12542.75,
      "end": 12589.29,
      "time_label": "3:29:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Line 55. Your face, which I once wept on when you died, I answered to him. Now it gives me no less cause for sad lament, seeing you so deformed. But tell me, for God's sake, what has unleaved you so? And don't make me speak while I'm amazed, he whose distracted answers clumsily. And he to me, from the eternal counsel, the water and the tree you left behind, received the power that makes me waste away. All of these souls who, grieving, sing because their appetite was gluttonous, and thirst and hunger, here, resent by themselves. The fragrance of the fruit and of the water that sprayed through that green tree kindles with us craving for food and drink. And not once only, as we go around the space, are pains renewed. I speak of pain, but I should speak of solace. For we're guided to those trees by that same longing that had guided Christ when he"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0425",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12589s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0425",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0425",
      "start": 12589.29,
      "end": 12639.23,
      "time_label": "3:29:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "had come to free us through the blood he shed, and in his joyousness called out Eli. And I to him. From that day, when you exchanged the world for better life until now, less than five years have evolved. And if you waited for the moment when the power to sin was gone, before you found the hour of the good grief that suckers us and wets us once again to God, how have you come so quickly here? I thought to find you down below, where time must pay for time. And he to me, it is Mynella, who, with her abundant tears, has guided me to drink the sweet wormwood of torments. She. Who, wise in prayers devout, has set me free of that slope where one waits, and has freed me from circles underneath the circle. She, my gentle widow, whom I loved most dearly, was all the more beloved and prized by God, as she's more alone in her good works."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12639s",
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      "start": 12639.49,
      "end": 12689.13,
      "time_label": "3:30:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "For even the Barbagea of Sardinia is far more modest in its women than that Barbagea when I loved her. Oh, sweet brother, what would you have had me say? A future time's already visible to me, a time not too far off from now, when from the pulpit, it shall be forbidden for me to say, I have been given to those immodest ones, Florentine women, to go displaying bosoms with bare paps. What ordinances, spiritual, civil, were ever needed by barbarian or Saracen women to make them go covered? But if those shameless ones had certain knowledge of what swift heaven's readying for them, then they would have mouths open now to howl. For if our foresight here does not deceive me, they'll be sat before the cheeks of those whom lullabies can now appease grow beards. Ah, brother, do not hide things any longer. You see that I am not alone, for all these people stare at where you veil the sun."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0427",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12689s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0427",
      "start": 12689.63,
      "end": 12731.68,
      "time_label": "3:31:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "At this I said to him, If you should call to mind what you have been with me, and I with you remembering now will still be heavy, he who precedes me turned me from that life some days ago, when she who is the sister of him, I pointed to the sun, was showing her roundness to you. It is he who has led me through the deep night of the truly dead with this true flesh that follows after him. His help has drawn me up from there, climbing and circling round this mountain, which makes straight you whom the world made crooked. And he says that he will bear me company until I reach the place where Beatrice is. There I must remain without him. It is Virgil who speaks to me in this way. And I pointed to him, this other is the shade for"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0428",
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      "start": 12731.68,
      "end": 12738.48,
      "time_label": "3:32:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "whom just now your kingdom caused its every slope to tremble as it freed him from itself."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-or3eow52wcc",
      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-26",
      "date_label": "2026-06-26, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0429",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12738s",
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      "start": 12738.82,
      "end": 12792.49,
      "time_label": "3:32:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "So, Darnay meets his childhood best friend, and he's ecstatic to see Forese again, right? But he's confused. And he asks Forese, I thought you were supposed to wait and end the purgatory for a long, long time. It's been five years since your death, and already you made it really high up. And like, how is this possible, Forese? And what does he, Forese, say? His widow, Nella, right, prayed every day for him. And because Nella was particularly virtuous and beloved by God, then Forese was able to climb up very, very high. Okay? And this explains why there are certain infants in paradise, right? Because their parents were really virtuous and prayed for them every single day. Okay. Let's keep on going to Psalm 24, please."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0430",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12802s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0430",
      "start": 12802.32,
      "end": 12853.56,
      "time_label": "3:33:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Our talking did not slow our pace, our pace not slowing our talking, but conversing we moved quickly like a boat a fair wind drives. And recognizing that I was alive, the shades, they seemed to be things twice dead, through amazement from the hollows of their eyes. And I, continuing my telling, added, perhaps he's more slow in his ascent than he would had he not met the other. But tell me if you can, where's Picarda? And tell me if among those staring at me, I can see any person I should note. My sister, and I know not whether she was greater in her goodness or her beauty on high Olympus, is in triumph. She rejoices in her crown already. He began, then added, it is not forbidden to name each shade here. Abstinence has eaten away our faces. And he pointed, this is Bonajunta, Bonajunta de Luca, the one beyond him, even more emaciated than the rest, had clasped the holy church."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0431",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12853s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-or3eow52wcc@transcript:v1#seg-0431",
      "start": 12853.82,
      "end": 12906.28,
      "time_label": "3:34:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "He was from Tor, his fast purchased Bolsana's eels, Renaccia's wine. And he named many others one by one. And at their naming, they all seemed content. So that for this, no face was overcast. I saw their teeth were biting emptiness, both Ubaldin de la Pila and Bonaface, who shepherded so many with his staff. I saw Messer Marchese, who once had more ease, less dryness, drinking it poorly, and yet could never satisfy his thirst. But just as he looks and then esteems one more than another, so did I prize him of Luca, for he seemed to know me better. He murmured, something like Gentuca, was what I heard from the place where he could feel the wound of justice that denudes them so. Also, I said, who seems so eager to converse with me, do speak so that I hear you, for speech may satisfy both you and me. He answered, although men condemn my city, there is a woman born."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-or3eow52wcc/transcript/#seg-0432",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12906s",
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      "start": 12906.28,
      "end": 12956.85,
      "time_label": "3:35:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "She wears no veil as yet, because of whom you'll find it pleasing. You're to journey with this prophecy as if there's something in my murmuring you doubt. Events themselves will bear me out. But tell me if the man whom I see here is he who brought the new rhymes forth. Beginning, ladies who have intelligence of love. I answered, I'm one who, when love breathes in me, takes note, what he within dictates, I in that way without, would speak and shape. Oh brother, now I see. He said, the knot that kept the notary, Guitone and me short of the sweet new manner that I hear. I clearly see how your pence follow closely behind him who dictates. And certainly that did not happen with our pence. And he who sets himself to ferreting profoundly can find no other difference between the two styles. He fell still contentedly."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3EOW52WCc&t=12957s",
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      "start": 12957.37,
      "end": 12997.51,
      "time_label": "3:35:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Even as birds that winter on the Nile at times will slow and form a flock in air, then speed their flight and form a file. So all the people who are mere moved, much more, much more swiftly, turning away their faces, hurrying the pace because of leanness and desire. And just as he who's tired of running, lets his comrades go ahead and slows his steps until he's eased the panting of his chest. So did Ferese let the holy flock pass by and move behind with me saying, how long before I shall see you again? I do not know. I said, how long I'll live. And yet, however quick is my return, my longing for these shores would have me here sooner. I do not know. I said, how long I'll live. And yet, however quick is my return, my longing for these shores would have me here sooner. I do not know. I said, how long I'll live."
    },
    {
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      "start": 12997.51,
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      "time_label": "3:36:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And yet, however quick is my return, my longing for these shores would have me here sooner. Because the place where I was set to live is day by day deprived of good and seems along the way to wretched ruin. Do not be vexed, he said. For I can see the guiltiest all dragged by a beast's tail to the valley where no sin is purged. At every step, the beast moves faster, always gaining momentum till it smashes him and leaves his body squalidly undone. Those wheels, and here he looked up at the sky, do not have long to turn before you see plainly what I can't tell you more openly. Now you remain behind, for time is costly here in this kingdom. I should lose too much by moving with us thus at equal pace. Just as a horseman sometimes gallops out, leaving behind his troop of riders so that he"
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      "time_label": "3:37:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "may gain the honor of the first clash, so with longer strides did he leave us, and I remained along my path with those two who were such great marshals of the world. And when he'd gone so far ahead of us and that my eyes strained to follow him, just as my mind was straining after what he'd said. The branches of another tree, heavy with fruit, alive with green, appeared to me nearby, just past the curve where I had turned. Beneath the tree I saw shades lifting hands, crying, I know not what up toward the branches, like little eager empty -headed children who begged, but he of whom they begged does not reply, but to provoke their longing he holds high and does not hide the thing they want. Then they departed as if disabused, and we immediately reached that great tree which turns aside so many parts, prayers and tears. Continue on, but don't draw close to it."
    },
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "start": 13091.79,
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      "text": "There is a tree above from which Eve ate, and from that tree above this plant was raised. Among the boughs a voice, I know not who spoke so, thus drawing close, Virgil Stasius, and I esched on, along the side that rises. It said, Remember those with double chests, the miserable ones born of the clouds, whom Thysias battled when they gorged themselves, and those whom Gideon refused as comrades, those Hebrews who had drunk too avidly when he came down the hills to Midian. So, keeping close to one of that road's margins, we moved ahead, hearing of gluttony had since prepaid by sorry penalties. Then, with more space along the lonely path, a thousand steps and more had brought us forward, each of us meditating wordlessly. What are you thinking of, you three who walk alone? A sudden voice called out, at which I started, like a scared young animal. I raised my hat"
    },
    {
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      "text": "to see who it might be, no glass or metal ever seen within a furnace was so glowing, or so red, as one I saw who said, If you'd ascend, then you must turn at this point, for whoever would journey unto peace must pass this way. But its appearance had deprived me of my sight, so that as one who used its hearing as guide, I turned and followed my two teachers, and like the breeze of May, that heralding the dawning of the day, when it steeped in flowers and in grass, stirs fragrantly, so did I feel the wind that blew against the center of my body, and clearly sent the movement of his wings the air's ambrosia. And then I heard, Blessed are those who grace lumens so that in their breasts the love of taste does not awake too much desire, whose hungering is always in just measure."
    },
    {
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      "title": "The Tree, The Guide, And The Chosen Fire",
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      "text": "So, so, Du, this is your dream, right? You told us you had a dream of a tree calling to you, but there's a river that blocked the way, and the tree was talking to you. And now we have a similar situation, right? Where? This is a tree with the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, and everyone can only look at it longingly, and the tree talks to them, but you can never eat the fruit. What do you think? Is your dream similar to what's going on? So, so why do you think you had the dream? No, no, no, no, I'm saying like, why do you think you had the dream?"
    },
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      "text": "I'm still trying to figure it out, but like, if I, if I, if I have to take a guess that like, I'm not I'm looking for a change in my life right now. And, um, and I've been thinking about like this, uh, to all the classes that I, I took during this, this seminar and about like imagination and love and, and especially like, uh, during, like, I, I feel, I felt pretty comfortable when we, in the paradise, right? But as, but like, once we enter the hill and the purgatory, I, it made me to reflect on my past life about all the wrongs I did to other people and stuff. So maybe it's a way for me to seek redemption or something like that."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Do you think when you had the dream, you saw the future? Did you see the future in your dream? Well, I, I, I think he had what we might call momentum in Indra's net."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:42:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "So like all of the images we've been learning before primed him and that his dream basically preempted what would follow in the poem because the poem was so close, a copy of these wonderful images that are in Indra's net. So like everything we had been thinking about had led him up to this. And it's like, he just turned up to class early, you know, in a sense."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:42:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, that's interesting."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "It didn't feel like I'm like, experience the future. I mean, the sense of time seems like didn't exist in the in my dream. Right, right, right. It's like all past and present and future matched up together."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Right. But like, that's what we said in the universal unconscious, right? Which beyond time and space, it's all happening at once. Okay. Are you surprised at all by this? You? You? You dreamt of the scene yesterday. And now we're talking about the scene. And we're trying to decipher your dream through the scene."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Not surprised, honestly, but like, I feel I feel it's like it's destiny is that it's destiny to be like this."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Has anyone had a dream that was basically of the future? So this happens to you a lot. Okay. Give us an example."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Um, it's nothing like special, but sometimes it's just like, when I enter like, a building a hall or I just had a lunch with with a with a like, with a with a stranger. And it just clicks. I was like, Oh, I knew what happened like, five, five minutes, five minutes later, or like, like, an hour later. Yeah. Okay. Brad, do you?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "I just had some very strange ones where like, I had an ex girlfriend, and I dreamt that her body had become like fully fertile. And she was trying to feed me from her in large breasts. And then like two days, I had not spoken to her for many months. And then two days later, she like calls me. And it was like, one of the craziest moments of my life. Yeah, but this happens a lot. Well, when I counted as a lot, it, it feels like I'm saying like, what I meant is, I'm saying it happens"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "to a lot to you. But I'm saying like, it's actually pretty common in the world, right? Yeah, yeah."
    },
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      "text": "I went to Malaysia the night before I visited my godmother's house. She had a dream from God saying, I'm gonna bring you a daughter and she was 40 something. She's like, there's no way I'm gonna have a daughter. Now I'm gonna be Sarah. And next day, I came to her house. She's like, Ah, you're the kid. And so they accepted me immediately. And then she told me long after about this."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah, I mean, like, isn't it very common that you think of a friend, right? And then your friend calls you the next day, or next week. It's very common, man. Right? We've all had this experience. If you have someone that person just calls you and says, Hey, I was thinking of you and I wanted to blah, blah, blah. Okay. All right. So again, this gives credit to the idea of the universal unconscious. All right. Okay, let's keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "Kanto 25. The hour when climbers cannot pause had come the sun had left to Taurus the meridian and night had left it to the scorpion. Therefore, like one who will not stop but moves along his path no matter what he sees. If he's goaded by necessity, we made our way into the narrow gap and one behind the other took the stairs so straight that climbers there must separate and as the fledgling stork will lift its wings because it wants to fly but dares not try to leave the nest and lets its wing drop back. So I with my desire to question kindled that then spent arrived as far as making ready to speak. But my dear father, though our steps were hurrying did not come to the end of our talking for he said, the iron of the arrows touched the long bow list let the shaft of speech fly off. Then I had confidence"
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      "text": "enough to open my mouth and ask him, how can one grow lean when there's never need for nourishment?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so this is a great question. Okay. So, I thought he saw these shades becoming much more emaciated. Okay. And that is like, wait a minute here. They have no bodies, right? Therefore, you have no need for food. So why would you become emaciated? How do you starve as a soul? This makes no sense. Okay, that's a question that Dante has. All right, so let's see what Virgil says."
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #11: Purgatory Cantos 15-25",
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      "text": "Line 22. If you recall how Maligar was consumed, he said just when the firebrand was bent, this won't be hard to understand. And if you think how though your body's lift your image of the mirror captures it, then what perplexed will seem to you transparent, your will to know may be appeased he, Stasius, and all I call on him and ask that he now be the healer of your doubts."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Okay, so what Virgil was saying is, well, so Maligar, Maligar is a story where Maligar, his soul is kept alive by a firewood, and as long as this firewood is not extinguished, as long as this firewood is not broken, then he lives. So what the mother does is hide the firewood so it can never be broken. So Maligard then does something so outrageous that the mother wants to kill him. So then she finds the firewood and then burns it down. And then Maligard dies. So what he's saying is, what you have to understand is a correspondence of things. The correspondence between the body, the soul, and the spirit. So if that one thing happens to one, then the other thing happens to the other. So if your soul is starving, then your body is starving. If your body is starving, so is your soul starving. But what's the problem with this explanation? The body is gone, right?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "So this is really confusing. So he doesn't really answer. And he recognizes he doesn't really answer. So he says, let Stadius answer, okay? All right, Stadius, you try now. All right."
    },
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      "text": "Line 31. If I explain eternal ways to him, Stassi has replied, while you were present here, let my excuse be, I cannot refuse you. Then he began, if, son, your mind receives and keeps my word, then what I say will serve as light upon the how. That you have asked. The thirsty veins drink up the perfect blood, but not all of that blood, a portion's left, like leavings that are taken from the table. Within the heart, that part acquires power to form all of another's human limbs. As blood that flows through veins feeds one's own limbs, digested yet again, that part descends to what is best not named. From there, it drips into the natural receptacle upon another's blood. The two bloods makes one ready to be passive and one active because of perfect. The heart prepared them. The active having reached the passive starts to work. First, it coagulates and then quickens the matter it has made more dense."
    },
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      "text": "Having become a soul, much like a plant, though with this difference, the plant's complete, whereas the fetus still is journeying. The active virtue labors, so the fetus may move and feel like a sea sponge. And then it starts to organize the powers that seed it. At this point, son, the power that had come from the getter's heart unfolds and spreads, that nature may see every limb perform. The animal becomes a speaking being you've not yet seen this point so hard. It led one wiser than you are to earn separating from the possible intellect, the soul, since he could see no organ for the mind. So did he teach open your heart to truth. We now have reached and know that once the brain's articulation within the fetus has attained perfection, then the first mover turns toward it with joy on seeing so much art in nature and breeze into it."
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      "text": "New spirit vigorous, which was all that. The soul is active in the fetus into its substance and becomes one soul that lives and feels and has self -consciousness that what I say may leave you less perplexed. Consider the sun's heat that when combined with sap with that flows from vines is then made wine and when the key says lacks more threat than souls divide from the flesh. Potentially it bears with it a human and divine, but with the human powers mute, the rest intelligence and memory and will are more acute in action than they were. With no delay. The soul falls of itself astonishingly on one of two shores there. It learns early what way it will journey there once the soul is circumscribed by space. The power that gives for me radiates as and as much as once it formed life limbs and even as the saturated air since it reflects the rays the sun has sent takes rainbow colors as its ornament."
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      "text": "So there where the soul stopped, the nearby air takes on the form that soul impressed on it, a shape that is potentially real. And then just as the flame will follow after the fire whenever fire moves so that new form becomes the spirit's follower, since from that airy body it takes on its semblance that soul is called shade. That shape forms organs for each sense even for sight. This airy body lets us speak and laugh. With it we form the tears and sigh the sighs that you perhaps have heard around this mountain. Just as we are held fast by longings and by other sentiments, our shade takes form. This is the cause of your astonishment."
    },
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      "end": 14018.54,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, so let me explain what he's saying here, okay? And this goes back to the idea of the morphic fields that we discussed earlier, okay? So what he's saying is this. We know how the fetus turns into a baby which turns into a body, right? That makes sense, okay? So the baby is in the womb and at some point the fetus becomes a baby, okay? That is his biology. The problem is consciousness. How does consciousness happen? And so what he's saying is this. At a certain point, the baby is so developed, okay? The baby is so developed that God can now smile upon it. And when God smiles upon it, what happens is that these universal unconscious that we've discussed, what it does is that it creates a soul inside the baby, okay? Does that make sense? As the baby develops limbs and the full shape of the body, the soul itself starts to take shape as well, okay?"
    },
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      "start": 14018.94,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "And we think that the soul, oh, it's a spark in us or it's part of the brain. No, it's actually the body itself, okay? Okay? Okay? Okay? That's what we call morphic fields. Morphic fields. So think as though your body is now emitting energy fields, okay? And that's how Francois was able to easily notice when Edward turned around, okay? Does that make sense? Because there are fields around you that feel the world spiritually around you and connect you to the universal consciousness, okay? So what happens is that... Okay? Okay? Okay? These fields are now resembling your body, okay? So each part of your body has its own field. Your organs have their own fields. Even when your body decomposes, these fields are still around that mimic your old body. And as such, you can still feel the way that your old body used to feel. Not as much, but there's still some elements to it."
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      "text": "Not as much, but there's still some elements to it. That's how your body is. That's how people are able to feel pain, both in hell and in purgatory. It doesn't make sense, guys. All right? Yes?"
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      "text": "What about the souls in heaven? Do they also have like this..."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Excuse me?"
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      "text": "What about the souls in heaven? Yeah, yeah."
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      "text": "So this is what we learn in paradise, right? What happens in heaven is like once you ascend to the divine light, all these fields have returned home. So what they... So what they do is they bend to fit heaven now. Does it make sense? Before these fields bend it to fit your body, once you go home to heaven because of divine light, they now bend to fit the divine light. And so you lose basically the body form completely, okay? As a shade, you have like half -half. But once you return to heaven, then you become part of the divine unity again. All right? So that's what he's saying here. Any questions about this? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Then, so is it the soul or the body that feels hunger when you're starving? Is it... Oh, excuse me? Is it the soul or the body that feels hunger? Because... Well, normally you would say it's the body needs food, so it like says to the brain, I need food. But in your... In that perception, it'd be different. Okay."
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      "text": "So on... On earth, when we starve, it's a physical reaction, right? It's a physical reaction. Does it make sense? If your body doesn't have food, the organs break down and you die, okay? But in purgatory, it's a different process. So the idea is that these... This is the gluttony, okay? This is the terraces of gluttony, and there's a tree calling into them and saying, you know, like, you can smell me, you can desire me, but you must resist me. Does that make sense? Okay? So what's happening is not longer at a body level, but a soul level. And so the soul, to demonstrate its longing, yet it's restrained, it becomes much more emaciated, okay? Does that make sense?"
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      "text": "So it's a metaphorical fruit that... But it's not... It's not real hunger then, because you..."
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      "text": "Okay. Well, they say it would be... It would be real hunger, right? Because only if it's real, does it have any meaning. If you have to feel real pain, real desire for it to have any meaning, right? Okay? So, but you need to understand, like, imagine two dimensions, okay? Your body is existing on one dimension, your soul is existing on another dimension. And here on earth, they both are combined together. But in purgatory, the body loses its physical form. You don't have a body, but the soul still maintains the semblance of the body. So you still hunger, and you can still starve, but in a spiritual way. Does that make sense? So what's happening here is not at a physical level, but at a spiritual level."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Did they have food in the other circles? And the other..."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Well, that's what Donnie is saying here. There's no food. There's no need for food. Yes, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 14310.93,
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      "text": "Yeah, it makes me think about David's Psalms, that my soul... longs for the Lord as the deer longs for the stream or something. And talking about drinking of this, like, eternal water or whatever, like his soul. So I guess it's kind of the same thing. Like, your soul can thirst for things. And so these ghosts or shadows are longing for the same. And I think there's also a scientific experiment where, like, people who lose a limb, like, your body thinks that you can still control that limb. And then it can... That's how the robot... The robotics can work, right? So all the neurons near that aspect makes your brain still control it. So it's kind of like your soul, as long as it thinks that it still has that body part, you can somehow have that, move it, like, to be able to control it or feel it."
    },
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      "start": 14359.17,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yeah, it's called phantom limbs, okay? Phantom limbs, okay? Where, like, you lose, actually, your entire arm, but you still, at some level, think it's still there. It's really strange, okay? But you can Google phantom limbs. It's a very common psychological thing, okay? But the idea is this, okay? The idea is that our souls, okay, our souls, they only long for one thing, which is the divine light, okay? To be closer to God, right? That's the divine light. That's what our souls aspire to, the divine light. But the problem is that we're inside bodies, okay? And our bodies... Our souls have senses, which is to say, like, we have these different desires, like, for food, sex, water, okay? And so we can become really confused. We don't know what brings us happiness. Is it lots of sex? Is it a Mercedes? Is it wine? We just become really, really confused. And so that's why we do stupid things."
    },
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      "text": "But once we shed our bodies, then our souls only desire the divine light. Okay? Doesn't make sense. The problem with gluttony is the memory of these things, our desire for these things, are still there. And we want to pay penance for this so our souls engage in a process of emanciation, which is, say, denial of the divine light, in order to compensate for our gluttony on earth. So it's a conscious choice on our part. To starve ourselves in order to pay penance for our gluttony on earth. And how this system works is the tree helps us remember our bodies through sense, right? It gives us, like, the scent of food, and we desire it. But we're souls. We can't actually eat food. And so we have this emanciation going on. Does it make sense to you guys? Okay? And... Okay. All right. Let's keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "109. By now we've reached the final turning we would meet and took the pathway right at which we were preoccupied with other cares. There from the wall the mountain hurls its flames, but from the terrace side there whirls a wind that pushes back the fire and limits it. Thus on the open side, proceeding one by one, we went. I feared the fire on the left and on the right the precipice. My guide said, on this terrace it is best to curve your eyes, the least distraction, left and right. Left or right can mean a step you will regret. Then from the heart of that great conflagration I heard Sumé Dave's Clemenciae sung and was not less keen to turn my eyes. And I saw spirits walking in the flames so that I looked at them and at my steps sharing the time. I had to look at each. After they'd reached that hymn's end, Virum non cognosso were the words they cried aloud."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Then they began the hymn in a low voice again, and done again they cried. Diana kept the woods and banished Helice after she'd felt the force. Then they returned to singing, and they praised aloud those wives and husbands who were chaste as virtue and as matrimony mandate. This is, I think, the way these spirits act as long as they are burned by fire. This is the cure and this the nourishment with which one has to heal the final wound of all."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, all right. So we'll go over by like five minutes. It's fine. Okay, one last question is they are now in the final terrace, which is the Terrace of Lust. What would fire? Like stepping through fire help cure you of lust?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "Yes, because if you're a lustful person, you're kind of like consumed by this like burning desire that you have for like other people's body. And then so if you want to purify yourself, you need to be burned. You need to be you need to be able to like withstand the burning fire to withstand your burning desire for like lust."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay, that makes sense for. Hell, right? To be punished for your lust through fire. But in purgatory, we want to prepare ourselves for heaven. We want to do penance and prepare ourselves for heaven."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Is it like because some of the times you're also like purified if you're like burned into like a very high temperature, like kind of like pottery and stuff. And I hear purgatory, you're purified through fire, but then how you're just punished. By being burned."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "4:04:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Okay, yes, I think. Lust is not wrong, but the people here, they are kind of abusing the pleasure or like the power of lust so that they need to be they need to correct their path. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "text": "All right. Yeah. So so let's continue the ceramics metaphor. Okay. Why do you have to put your ceramics into fire? To harden it, right? Inhale. Inhale. Inferno. How are the lustful being punished? Yeah, because they are, you know, they're being whipped around, right? Because they are not consistent because they are not hard enough. Do you understand? They're not firm. You understand? So the fire, the entire point of fire is to make you firm. Firming your faith, firming your commitment, firming your devotion. Okay. That's what the fire is doing. Purifying you, but also basically hardening you. Okay. All right. So that's it. That's great. That's it for today. Any questions? Tomorrow? Yes. One last question, Fred."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "Just one quick question. There was a line that really confused me earlier this morning, which is you feel delight as nature fashioned you to feel. Is this Dante saying that some people are more ready to experience the love of God while they're alive than others?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "No, no, that's not what I'm saying. Okay. In Dante. Nature and God are the same thing. Nature and God are not the same thing. It's really important for us to remember this because in Shakespeare, the same thing. We talked about this yesterday, right? Where Professor Brown was saying, well, nature, naturalistic. I'm like, yeah, but is there a God? He's like, well, naturalistic, right? So in our world, in Shakespeare world, nature is God. But in Dante's world, it's different because nature gives us our bodies, but God gives us our soul. Do you understand? So the soul aspires to divine light, but the, but the body aspires to material pleasures. Okay. Does that make sense? Okay. All right. Thanks guys. So tomorrow's the last class. And so, um, yeah. So, uh, uh, think of how this course has changed you. Okay. And think about how the divine calling has impacted you. And I love the idea that you guys are having more dreams."
    },
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      "time_label": "4:06:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Okay. This, this will be really important for tomorrow's discussion. All right. I'll see you ever tomorrow. Bye."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q",
      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
      "source_title": "Dante #10: Purgatory Cantos 5-14",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-25",
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      "start": 0,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "good day everyone and welcome back to the dante workshop today we have a very very special guest dialing in from connecticut our beloved throne professor of english david bromwich live with us today besides being the sterling professor of english he has been a very well -read literary and cultural critic he was a yale college grad and a phd alum of ours his one of his some of his many books include haslet the mind of a critic disowned by memory wordsworth poetry the intellectual career of edmund burke and most recently american breakdown the trump years he has also been a committee member for the committee on trust in higher education which just published this report about a month ago he still teaches english 125 at yale directed studies a course on moby dick and we're just so delighted to have you contribute to this enlightened conversation with your student uh and without further ado i'm gonna"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "turn the podium over to you i should also say we're so grateful that actually thanks to jang's introduction we've had um david bromwich professor bromwich joined yale center beijing programs and workshops on shakespeare and poetry during covid which was comfort during difficult times comfort and enlightenment equally so um i'll turn the mic over to professor bromwich and joe do you want me to just start"
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    {
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      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
      "source_title": "Dante #10: Purgatory Cantos 5-14",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-25",
      "date_label": "2026-06-25, day precision",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q/transcript/#seg-0003",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDOK9qaaA7Q&t=123s",
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      "start": 123.87,
      "end": 214.11,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "or um yeah just just feel free to start uh okay uh let me um set this up in a slightly classroom way and point out that shakespeare is um a an irregular an unwieldy a sort of uh untamed author in many ways and uh this is shown especially the way he was received by neoclassical French critics who held against him that he wrote plays that didn't obey the unities, the supposed all -important Aristotelian unities of action, time and place. The ideal play would have an action that took place in the amount of time it took you to watch the play. You can see how rare this is as a successful strategy. But Shakespeare was what went astray of it far more than most successful playwrights. And I chose Macbeth in part because this is a relatively rare instance among his works where you do have strong unity of action and it's welded together with character, a portrait of character that is really brought out by the nature of the action."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q",
      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
      "source_title": "Dante #10: Purgatory Cantos 5-14",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-25",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q/transcript/#seg-0004",
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      "start": 214.21,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "And the moral of the story is that judgment I think we're asked to make about the play, about Macbeth's ambition, goes with a sequence of actions that have that sort of interconnection that we look for. It is an imitation of an action that is serious, complete, and of a certain magnitude. I'll try to expand that a little or get your thinking started on it by just reminding you of the aphorism which we have from Heraclitus. Character is fate. The Greek of it is ethos, is the daimon, both of those key words still with us in English in different ways. And then a much later writer, but interesting in the same way of bringing our attention to this unity of character and sequence of events. Henry James in his essay on the art of fiction asks, what is character but the determination of incident?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q",
      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
      "source_title": "Dante #10: Purgatory Cantos 5-14",
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      "text": "Incident coming to a sharp emphasis in the form of character. And what is incident but the illustration of character? I'm going to concentrate on the idea of action, the idea of a deed. And Shakespeare's sense in dealing with Macbeth most of all, but also Lady Macbeth, who is in some sense the instigator of his violent action, the murder of Duncan. By calling attention to the strange focus Shakespeare pretty much demands that we give to doing, the very idea of doing. Lady Macbeth says, soon after they've committed their murder, what's done is done. But she'll say much later, on the brink of or some way into her madness, what's done cannot be undone. Now, you can hear the difference between those two assertions. And of course, those are often used idiomatically by ordinary speakers in English today. But they logically mean exactly the same thing. What's done is done, and what's done cannot be undone."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q",
      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
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      "start": 381.1,
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      "text": "No contradiction there. But they're said in a very different tenor. The person who says what's done is done, or to use the more modern formulation, which is even more seemingly bland, it is what it is. When somebody says that to you, they mean, there's no point thinking further. about it. It's in the past now. No more reason to contemplate, to have regrets, whatever. But that second statement, what's done cannot be undone, points to something fatal about the nature of a deed, that it is a bearer of fate, and it is a bearer of the fate of the person who has performed the deed that does a great deal to illustrate the character of the agent himself. Macbeth seems to be nursing the nature of the deed he will perform almost as soon as the witches plant the idea that he might become Thane and then become king in his mind. He speaks it"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q",
      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
      "source_title": "Dante #10: Purgatory Cantos 5-14",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDOK9qaaA7Q&t=456s",
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      "start": 456.41,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "in a way that's a little elaborate, and at the same time rushed, as if his mind is overcome by the fact that he has performed the deed that does a great deal to illustrate the character of as if his mind is overcome by the merging of the idea of usurpation, killing, and this prophecy, which places him already as king. He says, and these are the lines from the first act, my thought, whose murder yet is but fantastical, shakes so my single state of man that function is smothered in surmise, and nothing is but what is not. One thing clear, even though that's an incoherent statement, and I mean, think of what it means to say, my thought whose murder yet is but fantastical. It's as if murder surrounds his very thought. That's a kind of conceit, I think, that Jang will probably want to have something to say about in relation to Dante. The idea"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
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      "start": 518.32,
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      "text": "that one of those condemned speaking from a flame in the window just is what the deed bounds him as having been. And but Beth's living that already in his speech, even though he hasn't yet, to his conscious mind, decided to do what the witch's prophecy might be possible. They don't say you're going to murder Duncan. They say you're going to be king. But this, this concern, this verbal, and psychological freight of the idea of a deed as defining the character and fate of a person is strongest when he's just on the verge of committing the murder at the very end of act one. It's a great speech, and I'll speak all of it and apologize in advance for the inadequacy. Very hard to act this part. It almost exists, to be read more than acted. The part of Macbeth, partly because he is imaginative, because he is full of fantasy in a way that a mere warrior wouldn't normally be relied on to show."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
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      "start": 607.64,
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      "text": "He has both aspects in him. But the fact that he is haunted, the fact that he has a certain depth does not change the fact that he's bent on the deed that the witch's have told him or all but told him could make his assent to kingship possible. So here's the speech at the end of the first act. If it were done when it is done, then, for well, then it's done quickly. If the assassination could trample up the consequence and catch withrukt with his surcease success. sass that but this blow might be the be all and the end all here but here upon this bank and shoal of time we jump the life to come but in these cases we still have judgment here that we but teach bloody instructions which being taught return to plague the inventor this even -handed justice commends the ingredients"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q",
      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
      "source_title": "Dante #10: Purgatory Cantos 5-14",
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      "start": 673.55,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "of our poison chalice to our own lips he's here in double trust that's Duncan first design his kinsmen and his subject strong both against the deed then as his host who should against his murderer shut the door not bear the knife myself besides this Duncan hath borne his faculties so meek hath been so clear in his great office that his virtues will plead like angels trumpet -tongued against the deep damnation of his taking off and pity like a naked newborn babe striding the blast or heaven's cherubim horsed upon the sightless couriers of the air shall blow the horrid deed in every eye that tears shall drown the wind I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent but only vaulting ambition which or leaps itself and falls on the other it's quite a remarkable speech and I'll stop at a couple points of it but only say now that Lady Macbeth comes in"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
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      "start": 743.33,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "tries to work him up to the crime again but Macbeth in a very different vein from what we've just heard says to her flatly we will proceed no further in this business there he speaks like a general giving a command that is in keeping with his or normal duties but you can see the amount of fantasy and the and the sense of ambition um just in the way the metaphors work uh in this speech he says that he'd leap the life to come in fact in the first part of that speech if you could travel up the consequence and catch with his surcease success it's almost as if the echo of those two words surcease is a word it's a it's a euphemism for murder but if if success and surcease the way they almost rhyme is just the way i could take him out how convenient it would be that but this blow might"
    },
    {
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      "start": 807.98,
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      "text": "be the be all and the end all here right now in this place no consequences but then he comes to the idea of judgment in these cases and cases is already a legal term our idea of casuistry which is metaphysical and theological too comes from thinking about cases in these cases we still have judgment here on earth right that we but teach bloody instructions which being taught return to plague the inventor and this even -handed justice commends the ingredients of our poison chalice to our own lives so macbeth in those words enacts justice upon himself there could be no more direct or complete judgment of the wrong of what he's doing his sense of the wrong is expressed only in terms of duty but the duty is strong and binding and he practically breaks down himself in that strong metaphor about the newborn babe pity striding the wind and confesses that he has only vaulting"
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      "text": "ambition which or leaps itself and falls on the other so the fantasy is in this bank and shoal of time like crossing a river but when you leap you just fall you don't you don't get to the point you would like to arrive at so that's macbeth trying to make the depth of the crime just a local event it stops now but here but by this blow anything because all the steps heeffel that he has had without even tripping will do serve i know that might be the be all and the end all i think that might be the first use of that interesting phrase in English you can just be over with it's just over with and that's what people going to commit some terrible thing i believe often say to themselves as a sort of consolation it's true to life in that regard um lady macbeth of course all this while uh has"
    },
    {
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      "start": 933.97,
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      "text": "been setting herself up as the person willing to face um violation of nature violation of duty because of the great um gift that it will bring them the gift of power the gift of being king and queen and she has said when just when beth is about to arrive uh following the message that she has read already from him that he got this strange hint from the from the witches she said i'm no longer part of nature come you spirits that tend on mortal thoughts unsex me here and fill me from the crown to the toe top full of dire cruelty make thick my blood stop up the nature can't be undone but uh when she says unsex me here and in other places where she says you know i would beat out the brains of an infant rather than quit this deed before it's done there's a very strange suggestion that you know lady"
    },
    {
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      "start": 1012.05,
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      "text": "macbeth sees herself as witch -like sees herself as in some way supernatural outside nature she can't live up to that aspiration but it's she who as it were um starts the engine of macbeth's ambition to turn it into something efficient which he is hanging back from quite committing himself to too. What's interesting about their relationship is the progression of it, the kind of exchange it undergoes as the play advances. Because already in act three, that's the dinner scene where Macbeth is quite haunted and is acting so much so that guests wonder what's up. They begin to be suspicious about something strange going on in this family. But already in that scene, Macbeth is comforting Lady Macbeth, no longer having to be roused by her, as he eventually is to commit the murder. And when she tells him to put on a good face, gentle your looks, he says to her, full of scorpions is my mind, dear wife, but he's not going to tell you what to do."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Tell her exactly what's up. Be innocent of the knowledge, dearest Chuck, till thou applaud the deed. One of the, I can only call it Shakespearean touches all through this play, is what a good team they are, how well suited as husband and wife. I won't say loving, that almost seems a larceny against the word love, but they're very compatible. Let's just say they like each other a lot, and they're suited to each other. And they care about each other in a way that they're not capable of caring about anyone else. Macbeth continues the self -deception that a deed committed right here, right now, can stop right here, right now. He knows that this is a deception. He says as much when he speaks the line, to know my deed, twere best not know myself. As if you could separate your personal agency from the things you do."
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      "text": "That's the fantasy nursed by Macbeth. And I want to suggest it's also a fantasy common to all ambition. Ambition in that sense, in that hard sense, is something as if outside you, that takes you over. And that's the fantasy. And that's the fantasy. And that's the fantasy that makes the person no longer inwardly able to care about right and wrong. No longer part of nature, to use the word that Lady Macbeth has used. That idea of being here, where there is the be all and the end all, the fantasy of jumping the life to come, persists throughout the play. And I want to point out that in one of the speeches of Shakespeare that people most like to memorize every bit as much as Hamlet's to be or not to be. We're not getting a piece of, you know, more than ordinary human wisdom, but a typical evasion by Macbeth when he speaks the speech I'll now remind you of, because you all know it."
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      "start": 1242.36,
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      "text": "She should have died hereafter. There would have been a time when she would have died. She should have died hereafter. There would have been a time when she would have died. She should have died hereafter. There would have been a time for such a word. Notice those words here and there. here and there. Trying to locate the deed in one place rather than have it stretched out to cover the whole meaning of your life, and that's when he goes on tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from day to day to the last syllable of recorded time and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle, life's but a walking time. And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle, life's but a"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
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      "text": "walking�� shadow a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more it is a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing and again i'll just say because it's bewildering and more so the more you know the play this has been taken as a indication of profound wisdom about life as if shakespeare is speaking everything he knows about good and evil love and death through macbeth but it is no such thing this is macbeth's um locating uh of lady macbeth's death in a hereafter where she should have died and then his uh revelation that to himself now life has become a tedium it's just one thing and another and another and another we're all just actors on stage and that word shadow is an elizabethan synonym for actor among other things but let's call this speech nihilistic but the nihilism belongs to macbeth"
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      "text": "and it's an exposure of the cost of ambition it is not shakespeare's information about the nature of life um i think i'll stop there i haven't said anything. had other things to say and a couple of other wonderful speeches that I would have recited. But let me just pose two possible topics for us to come back to in discussion. One topic is the witches. What do you make of them? Because, you know, they seem to know everything in advance. So is a human agent even responsible in that case? And the second is children. Lady Macbeth says that she's given suck. So she's had a child. But the Macbeths don't have children. And there is a curious moment in a scene of Act Four where the bad news of Macduff's whole family being slaughtered comes to light. And he's told by Malcolm, the heir to the throne, you know, don't cover your face. Just take it like a man, in effect."
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      "start": 1429.59,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "And Macduff's answer is very interesting answer. He has no children. So what is this about the idea of children as something deeply related to what's not present in Macbeth and Lady Macbeth? The dynamic, to call it that, between nature, the nature that Lady Macbeth hopes to separate herself from, and the supernatural, the supernatural element in this Scottish play. So I'll stop there."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Thank you, David. Professor Bromwich, that was wonderful. So in this class, we tend to be imaginative. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to paint a scene where Dante is at the premiere of Macbeth, and Shakespeare comes out at the end, and everyone gives him a standing ovation. And then afterwards, Shakespeare and Dante have dinner alone together. And of course, Dante only has effusive praise for Shakespeare, the language, the poetry. But during the dinner, he raises three concerns that he'll have about the play Macbeth. His first concern, the first question he'll ask Shakespeare is, are you fundamentally pessimistic? Because Dante, as we learn in this class, he is a fundamentally optimistic person who believes in free will, who believes in salvation, who believes that we are ultimately the masters of our own destiny. And as you point out, Shakespeare does come from the Greek tradition. Um, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the example of course is the Oedipus Rex tragedy, where Oedipus, regardless of his character, regardless of what, what he does, he's bounded by fate. Um, so, that's Dante's first concern. Um, is Shakespeare fundamentally a pessimistic person? Do humans have absolutely no agency and free will in this world? That's the first question. Second question is, Would Shakespeare, does Shakespeare believe in God? Is he a Christian, in other words? Because as you point out, Macbeth, there's conception of nature, but it's, as you point out, pretty nihilistic. And it seems the witch is of all the power. Now, in this class, what we did discuss is Darnay has particular hatred towards fortune tellers. He has a place in hell for them, and he thinks that they are the cause of all misery in the world. And it's because they reduce people's capacity to make choices."
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      "text": "Because if you think about it, if Tiresias, the fortune tellers, didn't provide these fortunes, then Oedipus would not have had the tragedy that he had. He was forced to act in the way that he did. Because of these fortunes. So, is it just the gods manipulating us? That's the second question he would have. The third question he would ask is this. How does Shakespeare feel about women in society? Because the Greeks, there are a lot of extremely evil women in their tragedies that drive a lot of action. But if we read the Divine Comedy, and we did. The Divine Comedy, Daunte is very pro -woman. In fact, in heaven, it is Mary who's queen of heaven. It is Mary who redeems humanity, not Jesus. Okay. So these are the three concerns that Daunte would have about this play. Right? The first, to summarize, is Shakespeare pessimistic about human nature? Second question is, does Shakespeare believe in God?"
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      "text": "The third question is. How does Shakespeare feel about woman?"
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      "text": "Well, Lady Macbeth is a thoroughgoing female villain, and yet she is quite humanized by the end. She not only says what's done cannot be undone, but she says, you know, not, what are those lines? Not all the perfume in Arabia will sweeten. This, my, this little hand, I mean, that, that's the, the, the fantastical imagining of the harm to nature that their deed has done is actually common to Macbeth and Lady Macbeth, but she, she thinks she can elude it at the time she is urging him to commit the deed. And when Macbeth is hesitant later, he is more determined and he, the last decisive action. He goes into his duel against Macduff is to put on his armor. I mean, that's, that's to forget even the grief that he expresses over, over his death. She is showing her consciousness of being part of her deed when she tries to wash that in her sleepwalking, she's trying to wash her hands of the blood."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "So they both. They, they share that awareness and they share. share the repression of that awareness the not wanting to acknowledge the thought that shakespeare lets us see nevertheless is in them um macbeth's version of you know not all the perfumes are rabiable sweet in this little hand is even more famous um you know can uh neptune's all the water and great neptune's ocean wash clean uh uh this hand of blood no rather will my hand the multitudinous seas incarnadine making the green one red i mean it's extraordinary speech and i mean macbeth is is rather um they're both rhetorically powerful to each other not uh not least especially she for her influence on him but they do have um consciousness of what they've done and it doesn't ever rise to the point of conscience that would stop them from doing it so i i i"
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      "text": "see lady macbeth as a a bad person who's becoming something worse than that but she begins only as a rather conventional person who hasn't yet had her chance um she's no great indication of shakespeare's attitude towards women in general uh you can look at the character of cordelia in king lear of desdemona in othello and a good many women in the comedies if you want an idea of just how um naturalistic uh a feminist shakespeare was capable of being i'm going backwards uh in your three questions but about fortune and that brings us to the role of the witches i think shakespeare there too um is being naturalistic by his lights that is to say observing what people in society are like and this is a this is a scottish society there there uh uh is a prevalent belief that witches uh exist and operate in the world in scotland uh even at the time"
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      "text": "shakespeare wrote the witch burnings are are um into the 17th century so uh you know the the belief that witches operate is is real um what credit does shakespeare give to it i think he treats it as something people believe and macbeth most of all not all people believe it in the same way he is listening to the predictions that they make in company with banquo and um banquo says something like uh look how our partners wrapped macbeth is so struck by what they're saying and is you can use the other meaning of the word sorry the other spelling it's a different word of it's he's wrapped up in it um he can't tear himself away from what they are but you know that's that's the thing about here um but i think that people are brought to mind this this um murderous thought that smothers function and surmise so macbeth is a believer he"
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      "text": "was uh you know apt prey for the witches um but you know treat uh treat the witches in that regard as something like um a statistical prediction of you know what the likelihood is of me uh living another 10 years i get this from statistics the doctors you know from reputable medical journals tell me that i my genes are such that it doesn't much matter what i do i have a very good chance to live 10 years on so i go on a rampage of all sorts of dangerous things because i think you know the doctors have predicted that that's the way it's going to be for me i think i think i know a lot of the research on what other can do to get me up and about uh but one of superstition but it's just obedience to ideas about the future has been common in human nature forever and shakespeare's using it"
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      "text": "um i also just from b from having visited wales in certain parts of scotland where the mists are um on a twilight time to what i said um in response or rather in in interpreting that tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow speech uh shakespeare is acquainted with nihilism uh and with the machiavellian version of nihilism in the character of edmund for example in king lear but i think he sees it just as one one of the human occurrences these people exist therefore he is going to portray them unlike dante as far as i know dante and my my knowledge of it is nowhere near as good as this what this class probably has by now um shakespeare is not going to comment on the things he sees in human nature in human nature and society he shows you good and he shows you evil he he usually uh makes it possible for you to see how"
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      "text": "good could triumph over evil but the judgments come from the characters not from the author and maybe that difference is also partly owing to the difference between dramatic form and the kind of epic poem that that dante's writing just the last point it's just a point of information shakespeare didn't know the greek tragedy tragedians and he probably didn't know aristotle though he would have had"
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      "text": "great readers about aristotle so right um so again um daunting shakespeare having dinner and now that shakespeare has responded um donny hears all this and he only feel a sense of horror at these ideas that are being articulated and he has to ask this question does shakespeare do shakespeare do you believe that he has a work of artistry i think that's what i have to ask him you believe in God and if so what is God well this play has been called by many commentators you know"
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      "text": "um Orthodox Christian of its time uh in the beliefs that it reflects that is to say when you when you um you know when you rend nature when you um uh do something that tears the fabric of nature and pulls yourself away from it uh that is an offense against God and nature maybe um from the Dante point of view too weak a word for what you're doing but you know again I I'm I'm going to come back maybe very inadequately or unsatisfactorily with my secular view of Shakespeare which is that he takes seriously the things that people take seriously and belief in God is inevitable what the theology is behind it exactly um you know depends on the occasion of the play he's going to um write at a given moment uh if you look at King Lear I think there the pressure is is greatest on any belief in something beyond the human"
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      "text": "realm that could save human life um in Macbeth I think the idea of a restoration of of an order of things which God supervenes in is stronger by the end uh it's strong because of um the nature that Macduff feels is in him and what Macduff's family must be to him I mean we're made to feel the absence of children in Macbeth and Lady Macbeth only by the planting of Macduff as a counter character and that strange moment when he is told of the death of his whole family so it's a terrible play it's a frightening play it does not give you any image clear image of the good but I think it it makes you able to think about why it is that someone like Macbeth doesn't survive okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "so I'm going to ask one more question and then we'll open it to To show students but on Avian comedy there are lots of prayers be like Dante is making a prayer uh Anna flair location by himself, or maybe someone else in the divine comedy is making a prayer. And for Donnie, that's very important. Because when you make a prayer to God, you are also speaking widely to the universe. So in Shakespeare, and always like 37, 39 plays, does anyone make a prayer? That's the first question. The second question is, if not, if the soliloquy is just, you're just talking to yourself, what exactly is the point of that?"
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      "text": "Well, there is a there is a prayer I can think of right off and I'll just use it as an illustration. And that is Claudius, the uncle of Hamlet, who has murdered Hamlet's father. Is is overheard by the audience, not by Hamlet, praying for confessing his sin. That's the only moment in the play where we know for sure that the ghost was right. In what he said about the meat, the matter of his death. He prays for forgiveness, I suppose. And he confesses to that his prayers aren't going up to heaven, but sinking down to earth and then sinking down to hell. So there's a prayer. It's, it's just used in the play. It's a prayer of forgiveness for by a bad man, which is not granted. It's the kind of little moment you do get in the inferno, I think, but it's made a passing moment in the play. It bears on ambition to ambition knows what it is, even though it's something that blocks self knowledge."
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      "text": "And a curious fact about that speech. When Abraham Lincoln, who knew Shakespeare pretty well, wrote a letter to the author of a book on Shakespeare and says some interesting things about several of the plays. Macbeth was his favorite, by the way. And Lincoln knew that he Lincoln was ambitious, confessed it in an interesting notebook entry to himself, and in other places less openly. I thought ambition was dangerous, but that his ambition is probably what allowed him to become president, and to lead the campaign against slavery. It had to be somebody who had a great idea of his own abilities. Sorry. But one of his favorite speech, the word Donnie would have for this is not ambition, but hope."
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      "text": "All I was gonna say is, Lincoln says that that that's, that's his favorite speech in Shakespeare. That speech by Claudius. And it's just a passing thing. But it's a confession of just how damned he feels by what his ambition led him to do. So make of that what you will. But there's a prayer in Shakespeare."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, thank you. Okay, so we're gonna open the floor to questions. Are there any questions for Professor Roberts? Yes."
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      "text": "Is there a specific moment in Shakespeare's life that you think unlocked his imagination? And could you tell us a little bit about that? Could have shaped his view of the world?"
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      "text": "No, but I tend, I tend to be skeptical of such singular moments. I know that that Dante is an exception to that. And that other artists are too. And some of them say so. But Shakespeare gradually became the greatest playwright in English. I don't think from his very first plays, you could say that he pulled away from the very you know, impressive crowd of competitors that he was surrounded by, including Marlowe, including Ford at a later stage and so on. So no, I think it was his knowledge of people, his knowledge of the court at a tangent, his knowledge of some aristocrats, his knowledge of people who had fought in battles, his knowledge of people in the theater, who themselves are a diverse lot. They're not isolated, not living in what we now call a bubble. So he was he was worldly, mostly with regard to London and the work he did, you know, as somebody who helped to run a theater outfit."
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      "text": "Sorry, so to expand the question, in this class, we speculate on weird things, right? So we discuss, is it possible that Don had access to psychedelics? Is it possible he had visions? Was he an avid dreamer? Did he have a near -death experience? And so is there any scholarship on Shakespeare and how he was able to achieve his visions?"
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      "text": "Well, there's lots. And there's this new movie called, what is it, Hamnet? I mean, about the, you know, the unhappy pregnancy of his wife and how much that mattered to him and how much that mattered to her. There are lots of stories like this. I think Shakespeare is an unusually hard case for making much of his life. That's actually, that's actually one of the things that I think bewilder people about him. He doesn't seem exceptional. There's that same quality about Mozart, but at least Mozart has one exceptional thing. He seems able to compose great pieces at the age of six or seven. That you can't say about Shakespeare. But, you know, there's not a story of the germinal incident or the terrible, near -death experience or trauma that I think lies behind, you know, all the interesting productions that we have the highest respect for. I was saying earlier, before we started this officially, that I'm teaching a course on Melville next term."
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      "text": "And I think you can say about Herman Melville that his years at sea were the thing that mattered to him much more than his much longer period on land. That's clear. But, you know, can you trace to one point what made him write Moby Dick? I'm not able to do that."
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      "text": "Okay, great. Question back there."
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      "text": "If Dante was directing Macbeth in the scene where Macbeth does the speech, is this a dagger that I see before me? Do you think Dante would instruct the stage production to have a dagger appear on the stage or continue to leave it in the imagination of the audience?"
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      "text": "Ah, Dante might let you have, I mean, Dante is serious Catholic. Catholic are not against idolatry from objects. I think he might well have put the knife right there. And I think it's common but not universal to have the knife be only imagined by Macbeth. That's another interesting moment of acting as if he is led on by forces outside himself, as ambition does for you because he says to the he says to the dagger thou marshall's the way that I was going which confesses that he was going to do it anyway but the hallucination helps him and you know he embarks on the deed right after that with the words I go and it is done so you know it's a it's a stage prop it's and it's a favorite performance piece isolated from everything else in the 19th century but yeah thank you for bringing that up I mean that is that's that's one"
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      "text": "more instance of the consistency of this portrayal that Macbeth and Lady Macbeth are always putting off onto something slightly external the impulses that drives the ambition that is in"
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      "text": "themselves okay thank you for that yes yeah so I'm interested in your your perception of the witches so witches we could say they're humans but you know um we have demons in the Divine Comedy so what's do are the witches possessed by demons or what's like the how do we define the witches like why"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "why are they doing what they are doing so I'll first point out the naturalistic almost dismissal of the witches that we get from Banquo uh in lines that run something like um the earth has bubbles as the water has these are of them so they're you know almost as if he's a professor of physics there is Banquo the the ordinary um you know um not over ambitious uh Warrior alongside Macbeth just saying this is all very strange but maybe it doesn't mean much of anything and that's that's a fascinating proposition isn't it um William James uh great American philosopher who was uh interested in psychic phenomena and was the head of the Society in Britain that studied that at one point after years and years of studying it said he came to believe that there were ghosts that there was another world that it that it it actually existed but the disappointment from his many"
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      "text": "years of conversing with the things on the other side was they didn't have very interesting things to say they they were like gossiping about the housekeeper in the basement and ordinary dreary stuff like that so there's similar to William James in this case there is Banquo saying the earth has bubbles as the water has perhaps these are of them um Macbeth brings something of himself into the way that he is haunted and it's a portrait of him that the that the um that the nature of that haunting gives us more than anything sure about the witches but as I say my my own um I think true doctrine on the witches is people believed in them and uh believed in them and and it was right to put them there because if you believe in something you will probably experience it you will even experience your own self -righteousness if you"
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      "text": "believe in it strongly enough great question okay any more questions uh yes I wonder is"
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      "text": "Shakespeare um naturalistic in his nature or is he just adapting a naturalism view when he's writing his play for example does the sonnets reflect more about what he really believed"
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      "text": "in his playstuffs the sonnets are very uh they're written a good deal before they're written around the same a little bit about the same time as Romeo and Juliet a little after towards the time he's writing um Hamlet Macbeth comes a few years later uh and in a way is much plainer in style than the sonnets as sonnets are of course an ornate form compared to what Shakespeare does with drama um I'll tell you some things about Shakespeare uh and this this takes us back to my dodging the biographical uh premise but I'll say this much he was he was interested in the lives the lives the the posture um the different uh quality of experience that he found among aristocrats and the aristocrat Southampton that he is dealing with in some of the sonnets um a deep impression on him and at the same time uh he was wary of how much these people"
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      "text": "had at stake about the the deception and self -deception that it could put them onto um and to to a great degree about their ability to manipulate others just through the status and sometimes stature that they held so I mean the sonnets tell you something about his um his attitude toward a lot of aristocrats which is which is careful uh and admiring and wary um it also tells you something about Shakespeare's um what to say uh erotic intensity he was capable of very strong feelings towards a woman uh including um deep physical and other kinds of attachment um and also including suspicion jealousy um so you know the the sonnets are a personal statement to some extent and yet they're written from within uh you know a genre post petrarch that is a that is already setting the terms of"
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      "text": "much of what Shakespeare says um any more questions uh yes would you view Dante's creation of a universal architecture kind of an articulation of capital T truth you view it more as a longing for moral certainty and how would you compare you're asking yeah you're asking how i see dante yeah dante the author dante the poet and then how would you compare shakester"
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      "text": "in that dante dante i've just been reading the chapter on the structure of the uh divine comedy to prepare for questions i thought i might get from jang um uh you know eric auerbach's book dante and uh uh the world and i think dante gives form to the world and form to um uh moral and um you know uh uh what to say any any thought about nature you might have being shaped by larger surrounding um uh circumscribing understandings that are religious that are essentially religious um and what he's what he's doing in the divine comedy seems completely different from the sort of things shakespeare's doing in his plays i i don't see any unity that you can add up from the three dozen odd plays that shakespeare wrote but in the case of the divine comedy the unity is obviously obviously there and a single -minded vision is there so are they just up"
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      "text": "to different things um t.s elliott said you know dante and shakespeare divide the world between them there is no third um we we had a question uh back here yeah so"
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      "text": "can you expand a bit on shakespeare's perception of fate sorry did you catch a question yeah i did"
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      "text": "expand a little on shakespeare's conception of of fate um i think he i i may be confusing his views but i think that there is a there is a a moral order in the world and that's the um the the desire for it in the world um i think that he is a very a very good friend of mine uh so please allow for that i feel that i've learned a lot from shakespeare and uh i can't be sure where some thoughts come from but i i think he believed that there is an there there is an a moral order in the world um this comes out in king lear which is the most despairing of his place in some ways and yet But what you see in it is that evil is not one undifferentiated thing. There are people who are made worse by the other people around them or by incidents that happen in their lives."
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      "text": "And the, what to say, assurance or clarity that Shakespeare seems to have from outside this all is that, I'm going to use a very kind of slang expression for it, what goes around comes around. That there is order in that sense. That the people who do wrong. In some sense, know exactly what they are doing and that others know. And that the fact that this can be known and shown gives order to the world in itself. So let me put it a simpler way. He believes, he believes in the redemptive. Sorry, that's too strong. He believes in the strengthening power of truth. And that. Truth comes out because to all human actions, there are human witnesses and people want to know they want to know truly and people are interested in the good and prone to despair when they find nothing but the absence of the good over here."
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      "text": "It's kind of combining Professor John's question about Shakespeare's view on women is something that's also very perplexing to me about Shakespeare. That half of his female characters are either bad like witches or Lady Macbeth. And then the other side, you find Portia in The Merchant of Venice, the, you know, very wise lawyer and then also Ophelia, who's Ophelia, who drown herself in despair, who's loving and all that. And then there's Taming of the Shrew where with Catriona, I think Cat and I, I can't reconcile. Yeah, how are we supposed to look at Taming of the Shrew? It's like the biggest issue in my life. I was like, I can't accept."
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      "text": "Really? Oh, yeah. Don't let it be. It's not, it's not such a, it's not such a great play. It's not, it's not, it's not full of wisdom. It's, it's done to a, done to a theme. You know, details of it show Shakespeare's greatness. But I don't think, I don't think the plot or the characters make you think in the way that his truly great work is. greatest plays do but you're mentioning all these women what about what about Rosalind as you like it yeah yeah she's completely commanding what about what about Cleopatra and Anthony Cleopatra she's the most interesting character in the play and I think you could say not only does Anthony die in worship of her but Shakespeare kind of worships her too um so I mean there's great variety in in his portrayals of women and you're right there you know there there are those bad ones but they're they're they're part"
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      "text": "of the story um okay so we're running out of time okay"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "so um um it's 10 o 'clock and it's very late where Professor Bromwich is so um Professor Bromwich before we conclude do you have any questions for us as as a group maybe a question for the students um or I would like to know and I say this as someone"
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      "text": "um just let's say barely conversant with Dante um and having been reading it uh more than I uh have done lately in the last few days just to prepare for this uh encounter with you so let me ask you what is what kind of satisfaction do you have from reading Dante that seems quite special and absent for example in a less overtly"
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      "text": "religious um writer like Shakespeare wow okay so guys that's a question for you guys what is unique about Dante anyone okay back there oh yeah I think Dante's works is really making me"
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      "text": "feel impressive because before the Dante's I just feel confused about money about power about AI about technology and all of these things I think this come from human mind but after Dante's I know that all of things maybe just the same just kind of original thing and even though you can say that AI is chronic kind of technology but it doesn't mean that it really do not let people to be controlled right so even the money which we think is quite needed but it also we have to admit and money surely can let people to be like slave you know to be enslaved people was mine so maybe Dante is really make people recall about what what we've been through about history what is history and keep telling us about truth okay thank you um"
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      "text": "yes I just find it quite reassuring I don't think Shakespeare would ever let any of his Kings or Queens end up in purgatory languishing in the sweet -scented Valley and it's a nice thought that Dante allows even people who have great power a little bit of leeway as long as they have a good heart but I've never read it in Shakespeare okay uh yes I think I'm sorry I"
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      "text": "think maybe it provides a moral framework to work off of especially if you're a religious um in the first case uh and also whether you agree with for example how he puts some people in hell and some people in purgatory and some people in Paradise that maybe you don't agree with it's still I think a good more of very reassuring moral framework and you can really start working off of that to get your own moral framework and it's just really reassuring to you know feel also I guess you said that Shakespeare also has a similar thought of fate is that bad people that do bad things have a bad ending and good people that do good things have a good ending and I think that's a reassuring moral framework to have even if you're not religious thank you uh yes I feel"
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      "text": "like the difference is that Dante is more certain in his judgments like he is trying to like he his works have a lot of are very certain and he gives people as the calm was saying this reassuring moral certainty certainty but as you said I feel like Shakespeare he more or less just observes people and then tries to show them for like how humans act so in that way he is giving his readers less uh certainty"
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      "text": "yes there's less certainty for sure yeah I have read Shakespeare for AP language and if you literature I memorized most of the quotes that you mentioned as a you know high school and I loved it I feel like he is the ultimate synthesis of a lot of the theology that I've encountered because I also went to Bible school and every day we have to you know reconcile paradoxes and stuff and I feel like Dante is one of those that kind of answers a lot of my questions that Shakespeare may not I feel Shakespeare is like this is the world let me present it on the stage for you for you to see what life is but Dante is like well this is Earth but there's more beyond Earth there's Heaven and Hell and like you know all these things that you need to be aware of and why there should be retribution for the wrongs"
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      "text": "so I feel like yeah Shakespeare is more like a matter of fact of what it is and Dante is more like this is the interpretation or the you know outside of the cave vision yeah okay"
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      "text": "any more um any more yes I actually think you need both because um in reading of course uh to me uh yeah what everybody whatever really has been saying is true but um what I've been I'm not a Shakespeare scholar I haven't studied Shakespeare in detail before but I think that observational uh naturalistic uh approach that Shakespeare has actually might complement um whatever that we've been learning so far in Dante and in the Dantean framework because if you're able to put yourself in the shoes uh of of a another person and evaluate this this this uh moral framework you might be able to find answers that are more pertinent to like modernity"
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      "text": "what we're facing now thank you how about you Carol well I would just say that this conversation across time and space and Generations and years have been enormously enlightening um in this workshop we've been talking about the channeling of um the author's mind and world and architecture um implanting it into ourselves as we become a reader and a deep reader and um you know at our age it's not something that we do that often usually in the in the mundane um vicissitudes of life so I think um and and you also see that in the audience we have people from um different walks of life um different places and all of that and it's been enormously enriching um you know not dissimilar from what would be like on the Yale campus um in in a seminar or class with you and so I mean actually I want to follow up with an invitation for you"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "to come over in person perhaps next summer um and and bring us through some deep readings as well um I think we would really welcome that I would love to"
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      "text": "um and I hope it's possible um if I can only make but this will be my one comment on Shakespeare and Dante together um that if you think about think about ambition think about ambition as a as and not not ambition as an unnecessary desire to perform something but ambition is a vice as a vice that takes someone over um Shakespeare gives you a story a whole story and the story is deepened by the way characters rub up against each other the friction of characters that's a difference between drama and an epic poem that don't dante can give you ambition and there'll be background incidents very shorthand about why these characters are guilty of it and what their punishment is in hell but it's they're just very different ways of coming at it and their the rewards are accordingly i think different and both very great and we definitely hope to see you in"
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      "text": "beijing um and maybe we can have a seminar on shakespeare and dante together and uh we can have a conversation between the poles of the two two of the whole world right"
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      "text": "uh that that sounds uh like a greatly tempting offer um thank you for the whole from uh for the whole class and the engagement that i i just saw and um you know i was i was going to say thank you to the audience for the great work that you've done and thank you to the audience for the great work that you've done and thank you to the audience for the great work that you've done"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "glad to stay up late for this thank you thank you so much okay well that was professor bramwich and um again he was my mentor at yale i took three seminars with him um and as you can see we are very very different uh but a lot of it is because um when i was at yale i tried very hard to emulate him i learned a lot about teaching from him he was basically my not No, no, no, no, no, he was not my original, no, no, no. That's a trap, that's a trap question. No, but it shows you what the learning process is. You first wanna emulate, and then once you emulate, you can then become your own person, okay? So that's what I'm trying to do in this class. So it seems as though I'm trying to force ideas on your throat, but it's really just to help you provide a framework for you to understand Dante so that you can develop your own interpretation, okay?"
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      "text": "So, but as you can see, even though he was my mentor at Yale, and we're still very good friends, he and I see the world very differently, and I think that's a very positive thing. Okay, so any questions or comments or concerns from last class that you wanna address before we continue with Purgatory? Anyone?"
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      "text": "Yes? Yeah, so yesterday we concluded Hell, right? Was it the day before? No, I think the day before, but I thought like because we discussed, you know, or said that this is Virgil's conception of Hell and not really Dante's, then what would Dante's conception look like, and how far would he then agree with Virgil's conception?"
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      "text": "Yeah, that's a really great question, and it's something that I thought a lot about yesterday as well, because we went a bit extreme yesterday, and maybe we said a lot of things that were actually not appropriate. For example, we speculated as to if Virgil was in fact Lucifer, if in fact he was master of Hell, and why that's the case. We also said, well, maybe what happened was that Virgil was the one who was being tortured by Lucifer, and he made a deal with Beatrice, and then he got out of it, okay? That's a bit extreme, and it's great to imagine, but it's also important to reflect and see how true our imaginings are, and in that instance where Beatrice makes the deal with Virgil, that would never happen in Dante's conception of the universe. Why not? Do you guys know why not?"
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      "text": "And it's really important, yes? Because it doesn't really make sense because your punishment would change, and so it breaks the whole thing about Inferno where you're supposed to be punished for a certain action act yes and so like why would you move and that's right that's right uh yes and it's almost like"
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      "text": "beatrice has the right to kind of do packs almost like she's gone yeah yeah but this is really"
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      "text": "important okay in dante's world god is not transactional maybe in our world maybe in the catholic church but god himself is not transactional he would never make a deal that's what the devil does okay all right so you are judged for what you do and what you believe not because you have an idea an offer you can make to to god okay so that's so so it's really important we clarify this beatrice would not have the power to make a deal with virgil and quite honestly um um it wouldn't happen it would have happened okay so this this then leads to question like what then is going on and um i think what dante wants to say is that everything in the universe is a co -creation process okay this is very important because um i think in shakespeare's uh conception what would happen is like god creates the universe he's like a master and"
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      "text": "then we just live in it whereas for dante no it's we all participate in the co -operation process so hell is there are some aspects of god in it but there are also aspects of our imagination in it and um poets because they have the most vibrant imagination they can have the most impact in the co -creation process okay so it's not as simple as saying like who created hell is it was it virgil was it god i would say that first of all it's a co -creation process but what's what's much more um um challenging to understand is that it's a evolving process right so hell itself evolves where jesus is going to come and take out people from limbo and then there'll be a like a sundering of hell so it changes the physical landscape right and then virgil can walk around it and interact with people and change the dynamic of hell"
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      "text": "all right so that's something that's really important for us to appreciate about uh dante um maybe for shakespeare things are much more static but for dante things are much more dynamic okay it's a co -creation process that is constantly evolving so um with each reading of inferno inferno itself changes if that makes sense okay when you read inferno the way you perceive inferno changes and your perception of inferno changes inferno itself"
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      "text": "uh yes i remember yesterday when we read about when someone does a really bad sin their soul is immediately taken down that's right um it i just want to work out a bit of a problem i have where in macbeth the fact that towards the end of the play lady macbeth and mabeth go kind of crazy and there's like a flicker of conscience in them how do i reconcile that because their soul would have already been taken in dante's conception so is that shakespeare saying that even if your soul is taken your body could emulate conscience in a way even though you're irredeemable okay uh that's a really interesting question that's a really interesting question that's a really interesting"
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      "text": "question and this is how i i would reconcile this okay i would say that what's really important to understand is that your soul exists in infinite dimensions so your soul exists at in hell purgatory and having the same time and depending on your action your soul emphasizes different parts differently okay so um it's not as clear as okay you do one bad thing then in an instant your source transport to hell when you hell soul theme and you know in the previous time you were working on he with himself you are in that he is acting in that way many times when you intercourse with him his and a demon comes in and you're just a demon uh i think i think it's much more complicated i think like now there's a demon aspect to you okay it doesn't make sense yes yeah just like the guy who"
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      "text": "died next to jesus because he deserves to be crucified to show that he's probably really bad but right before like seconds before he died he said to jesus i repent and then jesus was like okay heaven welcomes you so then there is this aspect of redemption to the end of a very evil person's life otherwise all these last ending um repentance right asking the priest to come to your house and forgive you as what has happened to oscar wilde actually right he has lived the life of dorian gray till the last end right like literally the day before he died and he converted to catholicism all of a sudden which he was the most anti -christ person right in his age but you know so then we can safely assume that oscar wilde's somewhere in purgatory if we pray for him maybe he will speed up to heaven right like"
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      "text": "so there is this yeah so it's really interesting because because what donna is referring to is the unity of the universe of the cosmos right so not only are you do exist among like amongst different dimensions but you're also connected to everyone else okay if that makes sense all right does that"
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      "text": "answer your question oh i mean but it was still virgil who kind of started off hell when he wrote the iniat or was it was hell like because in the roman or greek like religious views there isn't really a conception of hell so before virgil there wasn't hell basically or okay so first of all there was"
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      "text": "an exception it was called the underworld all right right so if you read the in the ad in his journeys to the underworld and he meets the shades right uh dido is there they're all shades so verge so don is drawing from that that in the underworld you're all just shades that's point one point two is that if the fundamental law of the universe is free will that means these places are constantly changing over time so maybe before christianity this was a pagan hell pagan underworld with the rise of christianity then we added christian elements to it for a collective imagination so the nature of hell changes over time as a conscience of humanity changes over time right does that make sense because i thought of this question probably"
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      "text": "as well because you said in an interview i think once that you yourself don't believe in hell"
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      "text": "really right um yeah what i believe is that we exist in infinite dimensions and um you can describe the some of these dimensions as hellish right they're just low dimensions uh where your lowest lowest emotions are based or are stored right so um what i mean by that is when people refer to hell they mean eternal damnation right like when you go to hell like you're there forever you can't escape hell and i think what dante is saying is like no um there's no such thing as eternal damnation you can choose eternal damnation but it's your choice so if you make the effort you can always uh leave hell and this is something that we will learn in purgatory okay because what virtual is saying is that you can never you can never leave hell you are not a christian and so you are you must be in limbo okay so there's an absolute sense"
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      "text": "to virgil whereas for dante there's nothing absolute in the world okay everything is evolving everything is changing it's dynamic depending on how you feel yes yeah everything's organic yes right so uh the difference between heaven and hell is hell is mechanical whereas heaven it's organic okay okay does that make sense to you or"
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      "text": "maybe well one thing also that springs to my mind is like how well people who only read for example the in yet only know that you don't have a choice to get out of hell so if you die without ever reading the divine comedy then it's kind of difficult to get out of hell for you that's"
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      "text": "right and that's why and that's why dante had to write divine comedy to give hope to the world and this is something we will discuss actually as we go as we go on in purgatory because again virgil is absolute here right yes"
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      "text": "i think it's also uh where you would put yourself it's not like god created hell and then like he just chooses is like we said also yesterday that the difference between inferno and purgatory were was the attitude growth mindset and optimistic and so like it would change like if your attitude would change then you're you're placed with change and you would like transcend in like these dimensions that's right that's right"
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      "text": "and that's why for dante the hope of the world is poetry right because okay you bring in a new emperor and he conquers the world and he establishes peace for 20 years where you're back to the same situation after he dies right so what you need to do is expand the human consciousness through poetry uh and that's why um you know he feels he needs to respond to virgil okay he's not trying to cancel virgil but he's trying to respond to virgil and add to virgil to give people hope okay does that make sense all right so any more questions yes yeah maybe to to build off that um"
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      "text": "i'm reading bart airman's uh yes journeys through heaven and hell yes and essentially what they do is he talks about every single story that's ever written that's like dante's like hey i went down to hell and i walked around and stuff like this um and they're all um it's almost like how i read the inferno like back in the day but this is a different story and i think that's the thing that's in high school where it's like oh there's lots of punishments and stuff like this and they were all all these stories were created um because they're like looking for a way to control in the real life the elites are like uh enjoy your poverty because you're gonna have eternal blessings and if you if you get out of line if you do any revolts then these are the bad things that are gonna happen um dante is revolutionary because he was able"
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      "text": "to take aquinas and augustine and actually make a philosophy behind all of this and and tie it up with the theology so that we can"
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      "text": "have these amazing conversations that we're having exactly that's exactly right uh yes so as"
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      "text": "we move from inferno to purgatory and um heaven it seems there's this linear path to you know things get better there's more hope but what uh confuses me a bit is that purgatory still seems uh fairly arduous but before we spoke about limbo which is technically still in hell and it seems easier"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "yeah um right so this is a paradox right limbo is a very pleasant retirement community okay but purgatory is arduous well the difference is in emotions of people right in limbo they're sighing all the time because they've given up hope they feel hopeless okay whereas in purgatory even though it's arduous they are singing they're excited they're curious okay does that make sense so it's not about um the actual place it's about how you feel while you're there okay uh yes with my husband like"
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      "text": "i just want to thumping like lay flat and enjoy my life and he's like no you should work it's kind of the same as a retirement community versus working arduously to climb a mountain because my husband is totally into hiking he's having the purpose of man is to you know achieve something to an end where i just want to live in retirement and he's like then you are less of a human if you live in a retirement community i'm like wow thank you very much to say i have no pursuit in life but i think it's the same idea yeah that's what men ought to be"
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      "text": "uh yes i don't know if this is too literal way of looking at it but so you've got this journey right through purgatory and if you can clean yourself for the sins you'll finally get to heaven if you feel more or less bull triste that i have a question is do you want to have a community all over the world i want to be part of a community you want to get to heaven i want to work idea i don't know if we'll see it later of how successful people are in actually making it all"
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      "text": "the way everyone is successful like once you enter purgatory you will succeed right because"
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      "text": "you've made the choice to succeed okay yes um so so before you mentioned there's people there's some people done um bad deeds that too bad they're um in annihilation they're not even in hell does that mean these people don't have a chance to read them themselves no no they choose not to redeem themselves they're happy in hell no you mentioned they're in annihilation nihilation"
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      "text": "well well i mean yes they're in annihilation because they choose they chose not to live"
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      "text": "so after oh so after their choice they are forever um yeah because like like they just chose to"
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      "text": "do nothing in life they just told to um sleep food life right how's that different from like animals or plants oh so does that"
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      "text": "does that choice is instant like like um yeah they don't exist it's your choice not to exist"
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      "text": "you have that choice okay okay uh yes um i was trying to maybe foolishly um correlate like ethics uh with the inferno yes um and i was thinking like we don't hear it explicit maybe we do and maybe i missed it but we don't explicitly hear um anybody say like this is a a punishment for rapists probably lost somewhere um but modern ethics would say like what's the three worst things you can do is like rape murder but then slavery and there was a lot of people today that would say like slavery is worse than murder because slavery is like slaves would happily kill themselves and stuff like this and it makes so i did some research on this and augustine would say that it's a it's a byproduct of the fall is that when sin entered the world then people learned to to be less kind to each other and there were hierarchies involved"
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      "text": "and then slaves were involved because even in dante's time slavery is less and we're moving into feudalism but it's not gone and it's just"
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      "text": "a economic reality yeah you make a great point about slaves in the divine comedy there are no slaves okay and there's a very good reason why because in this world you choose to be a slave because rather forward your life uh sorry you rather for your freedom than your life you give your free will in order to um protect your life and if you think about it logically for dante you can't do that because free will is god's gift to you and you just keep giving up like nothing really okay so so slaves don't matter like if you if you choose to be a slave it's like i choose not to live anymore okay you're basically a zombie uh yes but what if you didn't choose to be a slave you were forced to be a slave no that's that's about dante you're you've always made a choice you've always made a choice even if"
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      "text": "you are born a slave you can choose to run away if you're born a slave you can choose to rebel i i know it sounds a bit extreme but that's how donnie sees the world"
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      "text": "yes yes back there i mean i i hate to just just beat a dead horse but like what if rebelling would just mean instant death and you know that for certain so that's your free will would you go to hell or limbo or where if like yes then that's called civil disobedience right"
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      "text": "i bet there were i forgot who uh one of the great philosophers where he was put to jail if he did not agree to one of the government socrates yeah i think so yeah and then so he was stoned to death"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "and so right so uh so i mean you think death is the worst thing that can happen to you you don't have any faith you understand i do actually agree with you i would just um right right i think that's what donnie would say right to faith our faith is to believe that god gave us free choice god wants us to live the best life possible and if we cannot live the best life possible then our souls are immortal and we come back at a little point okay but what's what matters is to protect the purity of your soul and that means to protect your free will okay if you rather like surrender your free will just so that you can be you live live um then"
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      "text": "you know yes it's kind of like the dragon ball festival which is celebrated like qian rather die and throw himself into the river then so there's another act of civil disobedience we still celebrate a lot with saints heroes whoever we call them right who die chooses to"
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      "text": "die exactly yes but then are we saying it's inherently sinful to stay as a slave because you'll have no free will but what if you're a slave and you're treated fairly well and you're"
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      "text": "somewhat content with how you are is that sinful um yeah i mean what this is again is a lack of faith right it's lack of understanding of who you are you are here to live the best life possible you're here to be an inspiration to others you're here to co -create the universe you're not here to like i don't know like just get by"
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      "text": "uh yes i suppose where where then i go with this is then surely through dante's lens should we all just quit our jobs because basically in modern society right if we're working that free will is"
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      "text": "also taken um no that's not what donnie would say donnie would say trust your intuition if your intuition is i should just quit my job and do something else sure right but it depends on your situation it depends on your intuition there can be no absolute rule right there can be no principles it depends on your own individual understanding of the situation your own intuition"
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      "text": "yeah that's what i mean so if the slave is a slave but their intuition says it's fine i'm looked after"
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      "text": "then it's fine yeah if you think you're being a slave then you should quit your job okay uh yes"
    },
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      "text": "yes yes oh yeah i was wondering if you can just maybe give us some diagram about the dentist because i think dante make a diagram which is we can put other people into the diagram for example like uh some hero in in china or some hero in the like hamlet right so i don't know if hamlet just on one hand just tried revenge right but he also tried to make justice for for his father so what do you think about hamlet for example do you think he would be in the dentist"
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      "text": "limbo or in the yeah in the jeopardize in the paradise well i mean i think that hamlet would be in paradise uh because first of all hamlet is a poet and second of all he chose to live a righteous life right um um i'm sorry he wouldn't be in heaven because he did kill um claudius right uh so he'd been purgatory but i mean he wouldn't be there for long okay he would have to re repent uh when we didn't miss some of his sin but um uh i mean like like i don't want to go to hamlet uh because it's a very complicated situation but if you actually understand the plot of hamlet it was not vengeance it was not murder it was justice the reason why is that first hamlet conducted an investigation to confirm the guilt of claudius and then there was a trial okay if you remember the plot of hamlet"
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      "text": "there's a there's a trial an open trial where um evan could see the guilt of claudius okay and so hamlet what he was ordered to uh avenge his father and he and he delayed the process but he he wanted to turn the act of vengeance into an act of justice okay and again i don't want to get too much into hamlet it's a very complicated play okay uh yes this would be in the first circle"
    },
    {
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      "text": "of heaven because they are just content with their life and they abandon free will like for me this just makes sense to put them here not in heaven they're not in heaven but you know like we saw like the first circle of heaven like the first thing that come through the fact of them being uh heaven it was like people who just gave up free will so it was like nuns who like married uh some guy and just like accepted their their like right so so that's what we can so the moon"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "uh which is about the moon yeah uh picarda didn't give up her free will she made a vow to god okay and then she was violently forced out of the vow by her brother you're right okay so"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "so that's not slavery uh yes like is this sort of um philosophy that you'd better give up your life than your free will why cato is in purgatory instead of in hell because like i remember you said that he he killed himself as to like not be one of caesar's followers you're right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "and that and that's why he's in purgatory right okay was that a question okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "yeah that's right yes exactly okay uh yes um obviously i'm not an expert on slaves or history but from like the limited knowledge that i know slaves oftentimes um slave owners would really terrorize their slaves like every single week there would be public bashings to really instill fear into the slaves to ensure that they don't run away so the slaves in turn they like learned okay i can't run away but they still had the strength to run away so they knew how to run away and i think that's one of the points that i think about in your book is that they were just getting their rights back before they even got out of prison before they even got out of prison they had their freedom they didn't come right they just they're sleeping there and but they're on their own so i think that's um that's"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "really at the core of the story is like the fact of like how many reigns are in the middle ages and how many of them are alive and how many of them are dead and how much of that is like why don't you know about that though because like it's kind of what's been going on in history food where are you getting this information from okay so let's think think about how slavery happens okay in ancient times we had slaves because um i would my army would go conquer your city and then i give you a choice you either die or you become slaves right and it's your choice and so when you when you become a slave it means that you are now my property you forfeit your humanity you forfeit your free will you are now my property and because it's your free will to make this choice you no longer can resist"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "do you understand okay that's where slavery comes from so slavery is people who choose to become become slaves rather than to die uh yes but i'm not i'm"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "not saying i disagree but like the question here is you are essentially if you go to hell like you're punishing people for their own individuality and their own choice but kind i feel like you're kind of disregarding the influence of society on them like the like shouldn't you be criticizing society for having slaves and limiting their freedom and not allowing them to exercise their free will rather than criticizing the slaves for not having faith enough to criticize their free will uh yes"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:35:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "i forgot who said it but men are born free but everywhere he goes he's in chains virgil yeah and so in your case of slavery i think you refer to north american black african americans right so they are born into slavery and there is no you know choice you know because they are beaten like uncle tom right um but i think what dante is saying that it's every one of us who are born into this world we are born women who are inferior by society judge usually but you know compared to men they are black people who are born into this world and they are not born of you know with black skin there are people who are born into slavery there are all kinds of people who are born into you know dna deficit where you are you know shorter or you live shorter you get cancer you know so all of us are"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "born free but you live in chains so you can always make a your you know choice to live a better life like mother moses who got away where we heard a lot of underground railroad where a lot of these people try to run away and they don't run away"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "you know and yeah yeah back there i just want to say two things number one it was russo not voltaire who said that yes that's correct yes um and number two just in reference to your point about the slaves spitting in the food and poisoning the master's drink spitting in the food is one thing poisoning the master's drink would be a true act of rebellion trying to reclaim your free will but it would just be very difficult for a slave to acquire poison without money and these things are you exercising your free will but you are not reclaiming your full free will you have to"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:37:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "break free a hundred percent okay um so you guys are working on the assumption that slaves aren't happy okay you're thinking to yourself that slaves really want freedom and it's just like they're being beaten every day so they can't have this freedom that's not how it works okay if you read these um iron curtain dissidents like back on havel an actor showing showing this then they say it's all about life under totalitarian regimes which is it's all just a facade it's all just theater and we're all just actors on this stage and what is shocking to them is everyone chooses to participate in this facade they just say it's all just a lie right it's like in the moment people are like you know what screw this system the system collapses which is exactly what happened to the Berlin Berlin wall in the in the Soviet Union right just one day people were like I"
    },
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      "text": "no longer want to participate in this facade and then the system collapses okay so you're working an assumption that these slaves are being controlled by these overlords evil overlords but the reality is that slaves believe I should be a slave I want to be a slave I find meaning in being a slave and for Dante that is just outrageous yes"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "but I mean like how could you assume that the slaves are happy about themselves in the first hand because I feel like generally is like at least easier for us to understand that they are not happy because of all those violence that the slave holders kind of like cast onto them and also like at the same time if they are truly happy isn't it in some ways reclaiming their own free will if they are happy like that's my two questions I'm just kind of confused with okay so"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "happy is a very strong word they're just complacent okay uh yes so I opened this can of worms and I"
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      "text": "didn't even explain what I what I learned at the end of it um bringing ethics into Dante is incorrect racism is unethical there's no racist in hell um and so Dante the question isn't is slavery unjust or unethical it's is the social order properly ordained toward God and so slavers people that own slaves can end up in hell for any number of years so I'm not gonna go into the details but a things but slavery is just a byproduct of the fall and so you're not going to end up in hell for the fall you're going to help for violence or any number of things there are guests in your house so if you kill your slave then you would be in the bottom level of hell um that sucks in this modern world where we equate slavery as one of the worst sins it just doesn't yeah so remember in in"
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      "text": "divine comedy there are no slavers there are no slaves anywhere okay it's not really really an issue at at this point all right okay so let's uh continue um uh divine comedy okay so this is"
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      "text": "what kennel five now yep all right uh purgatory canto five i had already left those shades behind and followed in the footsteps of my guide when they're beneath me pointing at me one shade shouted see the second climber climb the sun seems not to shine on his left side and when he walks he walks like one alive when i heard these words i turned my eyes and saw the shades astonished as they stared at me at me and at the broken light why have you let your mind get so entwined my master said that you have slowed your walk why should you care about what's whispered here come follow me and let these people talk then like a sturdy tower that does not shake at summit through the though the winds may blast always the man in whom thought thrusts ahead of thought allows the goal he said to move far off the force of"
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      "text": "one thought saps the other's force could my reply other than i come and somewhat colored by the hue that makes one sometimes merit grace i spoke those"
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      "text": "words okay so let's figure out what's happening here visually okay so dante and virgil are walking and they're trying to get to the gate of purgatory so they can climb the mountain of purgatory because beatrice is waiting for dante right and as they're walking they get spotted by lots of shades and why are these shades interested in dante why because he has a shadow yeah right because he has a shadow because he's different from they are so they gawk and they want to talk to him right and what does donnie do in response listens he doesn't he doesn't listen"
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      "text": "he slows his walk to kind of consider what they're doing and wonder why is he slowing his walk because he's second guessing or not second guessing"
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      "text": "why is he slowing his walk virgil is like speeding ahead and virgil and donnie is like you know walking really slowly walking really gingerly but why is he doing that anyone so we've seen this quite a few times already right where the souls gawk at him and says hey shadow and then dante just gingerly"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "slows down why would he do that yes he wonders if he can help them in some way or if they're like they can give him information about the ascent you're such a you're such a generous and"
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      "text": "optimistic person no yes like you're like the celebrity of purgatory exactly do you understand"
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      "text": "okay it's like a movie star walks into a shopping mall and gets mobbed does he not know he's gonna get mobbed right he's he's gonna walk into some wall to get mobbed right and like so virgil's pissed off at dante like because it's happened quite a few times now right where he's like slowing down just so like the shades can get like it's kind of like a very aggressive kind of like surround him and said hey can i have your autograph right and so um so first of all um why is Dante famous why is he famous no no no no why why is he famous like he has a body no no why it's a shadow right it has a shadow okay what is this a reference to you worship shadows what's this a reference to Plato right how do you go to the cave all reality is a shadow if you worship shadows"
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      "text": "you are in hell right how do you go to the cave Plato so let's expand this okay they're in purgatory which is the light so it's like Dante and Virgil have escaped the cave but what they're still stuck in the cave mentally right they still think shadows are real and they shit shades worship uh Dante because he has a shadow why what what is Donnie trying to trying to say here what's the shadow anyone uh yes what is the shadow explain the metaphor to me well it tries"
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      "text": "to imitate something real right right but it's not yeah uh it's two -dimensional as well it's"
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      "text": "two -dimensional yes it means that in the platonic idea that a form has been instantiated so that when light shines on it beings can perceive it and that it's not in the formic world anymore"
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      "text": "okay yes yes uh I think it's the negative aspects of Dante that he collected in hell so it's still like his you know like when he was dirty and he needed to clean himself he's still like dirty of his shadow yeah so it's gonna be that's right that's right so shadow is an aspect left over"
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      "text": "from hell yes that yes it's also Eclipse of light that's how shadow is created"
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      "text": "what is the shadow metaphor for excuse me is this scene no no shadow is a metaphor for what"
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      "text": "in this instance is it a lack of light so it's blocking light in a way uh yes you could okay"
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      "text": "the ego what what projection no no no just concepts that's not God what uh so uh in the"
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      "text": "in allegory of the cave there are people who sit at the bottom of the cave and they're in chains and they're looking at a wall and out this wall are shadows and like if you go outside the cave there's actually people and then there's a fire so the the um the shadow on the wall is the projection of the fire of the action of people so that I think the shadow probably means um an illusion knowledge that you only gain from looking at it yes absence of God maybe fame guys it it's a"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "metaphor for fame right you understand and why is this important Don is obsessed with fame you understand what we're saying is that Don is obsessed with fame and why would this be"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "important for us well fame as a pride is a sin right but but what but why would this be a problem"
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      "text": "yes it would be something he needs to work on in puritory right right but I'm saying like why is it"
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      "text": "a problem now yes because it's just slowing him down yes because he's trying to get to Beatrice right you understand this is a metaphor fame is what slows you down from achieving God from achieving reunion with God there's that okay now here here's a hard question who put this idea in his head who said Virgil do you remember where we discussed this right do you guys remember what was the correct what was the exact phrase Virgil said when when was when did Virgil say say this what was the context you guys remember we discussed this okay so they are in hell they are in the circle of fraud and they're climbing these boulders right and it's tiring for Dante so Donnie slows down and Virgil says to him hurry up for what why should you hurry up excuse me for fame right the exact phrase was ever lasting fame remember right and we said Virgil"
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      "text": "wanted to say for Beatrice right but instead Virgil says for everlasting fame right you guys remember this and now Dante that'll think shadow has made him is in purgatory right but the irony is that it's a shadow therefore we know it's not everlasting and it's slowing him down in fact he's not actually walking anywhere okay he'd rather talk to the shades he'd rather just like be adored and adulated by his fans he's not actually doing"
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      "text": "going anywhere yes and it also tries to then mirror what he wants actually in reality in real life he wants this fame right yes and he but he gets the exact opposite by being excellent yes"
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      "text": "yes okay does that make sense he thinks he virgil said you're doing this for everlasting fame and now he's like well i have everlasting fame so i'll just stay here okay but the everlasting fame what gives an everlasting fame is the shadow and we know shadows are just illusions does that make sense and this happens this happened a lot where don is slowing down because he wants the fans to come adore him okay he wants that everlasting fame and where's beatrice in his mind it's it's like she's kind of gone now right he's like ah my choice is climb all the way up to the mount purgatory and be with beatrice or stay here and be doing my fans i'd rather be adored by my fans all right does that make sense all right okay line 22 meanwhile along the slope crossing our road slightly ahead"
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      "text": "of us people approached singing the mr verse by verse when they became aware that allowed no path for rays of light to cross my body they changed their song into a long horse oh do you see what's happening here right these souls are"
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      "text": "committed to god they see don is like this is actually more interesting than god okay i keep"
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      "text": "on going and two of them serving as messengers hurried to meet us and those two inquired please tell us something more of what you are my master answered them you can return and carry this report and move on if you're on your way out of this goal that's a handful of people you can return and this man is flesh if as i think they stop to see his shadow that answer is sufficient let them welcome him graciously and that may profit them"
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      "text": "his bands now okay and that and donnie loves this i'm going also who make your way to gladness with"
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      "text": "the limbs you had at birth do stay your steps a while they clamored as they came to see if there's any of us whom you knew that you may carry word of him beyond why do you hurry on why don't you stop we all were done to death by violence and we all sinned until our final hour then light from heaven granted understanding so that repenting and forgiving we came forth from life at peace with god and he instilled in us the longing to see him and i although i scrutinize your faces i recognize no one but spirits born to goodness if there's anything within my power that might please you then by that same peace which in the steps of such a guide i seek from world to world i shall perform it and one began we all have faith in your good offices without your oath as long as lack of power does"
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      "text": "not curb your will thus i who speak alone before the others beseech you if you ever see the land that lies between romania and the the realm of charles that you'd be courteous to me and treating those in fauno to bestow fair prayers to purge me of my heavy sins my home was fauno with piercing wounds from which there poured the blood where my life lived those i received among entanor's son there where i thought that i was most secure for he of este hating me far more than justice warranted had that deed done but had i fled instead of toward mira when they overtook me at oriaco then i should still be able to see you in that realm of charles that you be courteous to me and treating those in fauno to bestow fair prayers to purge me of my heavy sins beyond where men draw breath i hurried to the marsh the"
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      "text": "mud the reeds entangled me i fell and there i saw a pool pour from my veins from on the ground wait sorry so let's stop i want to ask"
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      "text": "everyone a question okay can you become so famous that it takes you it takes you to heaven let's let's think about this okay will celebrities go to heaven yes uh because the first commandment"
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      "text": "is you shall have no other god before me and celebrities basically make themselves idols that they are literally called idols um unless they are like i don't know idols that points to god maybe so then they become prophets instead of idols uh like john the baptist um but so john the baptist was a celebrity back then but he points to jesus so it's okay uh yeah okay um yes i guess"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "we've got we've got false counselors in hell and there can be true counselors and so you could be a famous true counselor"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "right right like like me right like like like i have my own youtube channel and i'm spreading wisdom is this going to get me to heaven please say yes i think so but i think the answer is no is that is that actually going to help me get to heaven why not what gets you to heaven from if you're in purgatory what gets you um up to heaven uh yes uh"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "just a question from jimmy saying if you don't use your own imagination which is the most inspiring imagination and maybe the problem with celebrities and idols is even if say the message is right people will blindly follow what they say and not use their own"
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      "text": "imaginations okay sure but again i i don't appraise myself too much but i feel as though my youtube channel i am educating a lot of people and i am in by teaching you i am increasing your imagination right so i like to think that i would get into heaven but probably not"
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      "text": "will be the same as all the great thinkers who has you know intellectual giants that we have depended on before just like virgil socrates aristotle plato uh yeah i probably end up in"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "limbo thank you thank you yeah all right yeah yes because the journey to heaven is still personal fundamentally is is your journey of self -improvement and self -reflection that will bring you there you can still be a celebrity while doing it yes you can you need to almost turn that celebrity into something that helps yourself improve as opposed to the other way around"
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      "text": "so how can i like you know get up to heaven faster i think in general the journey to heaven"
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      "text": "or to purgatory or to hell really start after a person completes his life's journey so until the person completes his life journey there's no uh you know"
    },
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      "text": "there's no start okay how can i like give me some personal advice okay yes yes if people pray for"
    },
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      "text": "you then it's gonna speed and who's gonna pray for me not you guys no no my family do you understand"
    },
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      "text": "okay that's what donna's saying here it's revolutionary right you mean as famous you want you can have a trillion dollars you can be a massive celebrity it doesn't matter okay what matters is your family what matters are your neighbors what matters is your community because these people are going to pray for you every single day with all their heart and soul yeah i mean your fans might now and then say oh you know let's give a prayer to professor john it doesn't matter okay what matters is your you have to put your heart and soul into praying for someone and only your family would do that okay so so that's what donnie's saying here don't chase fame fame doesn't get you anywhere chase love chase okay be kind to the people around you and they will pray for you after you die okay does it make sense all right let's get right right here line"
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      "text": "85 another shade then said ah"
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      "text": "so made that desire would choss you up the lofty mountain be granted with kind pity help my longing i was from monte felt tro i'm buan conte jovana and the rest they all neglect me therefore among these shades i go in sadness and i to him leave baord i have an earth that lends and i to him draw with violence or chance so dragged you from the field of campaldino that we know nothing of your burial place oh he replied across the casentino there runs a stream called archiano born in the eponines above the hermitage there at the place where that stream's name is lost i came my throat was pierced fleeing on foot and bloodying the plane and there it was that i lost sight and speech and there as i finished i had finished uttering the name of mary i fell and there my flesh alone remained i'll speak the truth do you"
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      "text": "among the living retell it i was taken by god's angel but he from hell cried you from heaven why do you deny me him for just one tear carry off his deathless part but i shall treat his other part and otherwise you were now in the air moist vapor will gather and again revert to rain as soon as it has climbed where cold unfolds his evil will which only seeks out evil conjoined with intellect and with the power his nature grants he stirred up you wind and vapor and then when day was gone he filled the valley from prado manio far as the great ridge with mist the sky above was such saturated the dense air was converted into water rain fell and then the gullies had to carry whatever water earth could not receive and when that rain was gathered into torrents it rushed so swiftly toward the royal river that nothing could contain"
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      "text": "its turbulence the angry archiano at its mouth had found my frozen body and it thrust it into the arno and sat loose the cross that on my chest my arms in pain had formed it rolled me on the banks and riverbed that covered girded me with this debris pray after you're returning to the world when after your long journey and you've rested the third soul following the second said may you remember me who am lapia sienna made marima made me he who when we were wet gave me his pledge and then as nuptial ring his gem knows that so these are souls who die for us and so this is the soul"
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      "text": "in battle okay and right now in history a lot of people are dying in battle it's basically gang warfare throughout italy okay fashionable fighting just endless wars and so if you die in the battlefield and uh you repent um you're put in in purgatory but if you die violently you don't you don't have a chance to repent you're still put in purgatory and you have to wait a bit before you can move on okay so again what donna is trying to emphasize is god is merciful and god is just"
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      "text": "okay count on six when dicing's done and players separate the losers left alone this consulate rehearsing what he'd thrown he sadly learns all the crowd surrounds the one who won one goes in front and one tugs at his back and at his side one asks to be remembered he does not halt but listens to them all and when he gives them something they desist and so he can fend off the pressing throng and i in that persistent pack was such this way in that i turned my face to them and making promises escaped their clutch there was the eritene who met his death beneath guino de tacos beast johan and one who drowned when in pursuit he ran there with his outstretched hands was federico novello praying and the pisan who made good marxutko who show his fortitude i saw count orso and i saw the soul cleft from its body out of spite and"
    },
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      "text": "envy not it is a a I mean pierre de la brasse and may the lady of brabant while she still knows this world watch her ways or end among a sadder flog as soon as i was free from all those shades who always pray for others prayers for them so as to reach their blessed state more quickly i started oh my light it seems to me that in one passage you deny expressly that prayer can bend the rule of heaven yet these people pray precisely for that end is there hope therefore only hope is the only hope is the only emptiness or have i not read clearly what you said"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "okay so what donnie is doing is he's listing a lot of people from his real life okay and it's a lot of people from his real life um we don't know who they are he but he knows who they are why is he doing this why is he listing so many people from his real life who who died why would he do that uh yes"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "shakespearean where if i write you in poem you live everlastingly so that's one thing to commemorate his peers that's a great point yes and then the other one is to console their family for writing but hey by the way your son is in purgatory you know like don't be too sad yeah that's a great"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "point so so even though we don't know who they are his readers will know who they are and they're consoled by the fact that their loved ones are in purgatory um and so what's the effect of that"
    },
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      "text": "to know that your loved one is in purgatory yes to the widows and the mothers and the family"
    },
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      "text": "and and what will they do with their hope pray really hard for them yeah it's it's making people live a life of faith hope and love right because because otherwise they don't know where their loved ones are they could be they could they've been held they could be in heaven so without this hope what would they do usually what what are rich people people doing at this time you guys know that's exactly that onto corruption that's exactly what they're doing okay they're ex that they don't know they're uncertain so they're gonna give huge bribes to catholic church which as you point out feeds the corruption which feeds this honest cycle of violence right so by saying don't worry your loved one is in purgatory don't bother church pray for this person okay does that make sense yeah all right okay let's let's keep on going line 34 and he to me oh sorry sorry sorry"
    },
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      "text": "sorry i've got okay all right so dante here and knows that if you pray for a loved one enough, this is going to reduce the loved one's time in purgatory. But we already said God is not transactional, right? God has perfect justice. You are punished for the crime you committed. If your loved ones are praying for you, why should that matter? And what Donna says to Virgil is, hey, in your in the ad, okay, you said very clearly, we mortals cannot at all impact the decision of the gods. We have absolutely no say in this divine cosmos. So what is it, okay? That's a question that Donna asked Virgil. And let's analyze Virgil's response."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Line 34. And he to me, my text is plain enough, and yet their hope is not delusive. It's one scrutinized. This is it with sober with the peak of justice is not lowered when the fire of love accomplishes in one instant, the expiation owed by all who dwell here. For where I started this, that prayers could not mend their fault. I spoke of prayers without a passageway to God, but in a quandary, so deep, do not conclude with me, but wait for word that she, the light between your mind and truth will speak less. You misunderstand the, she, I mean, as Beatrice upon this mountain's peak there, you shall see her smiling joyously."
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      "text": "This is such a great response from Virgil. Okay. Don't think it's asking him, Hey, Virgil, did you say your tax in the Ennead, which is the Bible, right? Um, we cannot at all impact the decision of the heavens and here in purgatory, we're seeing clearly prayers are lifting people up faster to the heavens. So what is it? And what is Virgil's response? Can you paraphrase paraphrase for me what he's saying here? It says. That's a great response. And it shows you so much into his character. What does he say? Paraphrase for me. His response."
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      "text": "Yes. When I wrote it, president worked like that. Why not? Because Jesus hadn't died or Mary had not given birth to him."
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      "text": "That's right. So this is, so I was talking about the pagans guys. This, this is Christian. You understand that's his first response, right? Well, what I meant was the pagan world, not the Christian world. Now it's different. And what is the second response to me? Yeah. Don't bother me, man. Go, go talk to Beatrice. Okay. His two responses are one. Well, it's different now because it's a Christian world and to go talk to Beatrice. Okay. So, so why is Virgil responding the way he is again? This is different from Beatrice, right? Where Beatrice will actually tell you the answer, right? What?"
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      "text": "Yes. He really doesn't want Dante to slow down. And just get involved with this nonsense."
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      "text": "You're such a generous, optimistic person, man. Yes."
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      "text": "That authoritarian teacher is like, shut up and move on. Okay. Don't question me. I'm your teacher. Kind of just go shoot."
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      "text": "Like, if you ask someone these questions, that question says, well, it's a different world now. And also go talk to another person. Why would you think that person has to respond the way that he or she wants, like, has your teacher responded?"
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      "text": "It's cope. Yes. But it's also what?"
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      "text": "Dodging the questions."
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      "text": "Do you know what I mean?"
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      "text": "Dodging the questions. Yeah."
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      "text": "He doesn't want to think about this. You understand? He does not want to think about why this is happening. Dante proposes a contradiction. He's like, well, actually there's a loophole. Okay. He's like being a lawyer here. He's trying to dodge the question. He's trying to avoid the question because he does not, he himself does not want to reflect on what's really going on. Okay. He wants to maintain his worldview, right? We talked yesterday about fixed mindset versus growth mindset. It's a fixed mindset. Right. Okay."
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      "text": "Uh, let's keep on going and I, oh, actually line 49 and I Lord, let us move ahead more quickly for now. I'm less weary than before. And you can see the slope now cast a shadow as long as it is day we'll make as much headway as possible. He answered, but our climb won't be as rapid as you thought you will not reach the peak before you see the sun returning. Now he hides behind the hills. You cannot interrupt his flight."
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      "text": "Okay. So Donnie says, Lord, let us move ahead more quickly for now. I'm less worried than before. And you, and you can see the slope now has a shadow. Why is Dante less wary than before?"
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      "text": "Yes, because he's left his fans behind, but he's happy that he had fans."
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      "text": "Yeah. Again, you're so generous with Dante. No. Big, big, big, like, like Dante is a really proud people person. Yes. Uh, yeah. That's way too generous for Dante. Yeah. Why is Donnie really excited now? Yes."
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      "text": "No, no, no, no. What does Dante care the most about right now?"
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      "text": "Yes. Progress or journey so that he can meet more offense."
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      "text": "What did Dante see that makes him happy now?"
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      "text": "Dante himself."
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      "text": "No, no, no, no. Guys, read the text. I'm asking you a question. What did Donnie see? Yes. The slope now casts a shadow. Yes. What did he see now? Well, people or. No guys. What's he seeing now? That's like, whoa. Yes. Great. No, no, no, no. Come on. What's he seeing right now? Literally. The peak. Literally. What's he seeing right now? What's he saying? Literally. He sees what? He's focused on this."
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      "text": "Maybe a friend. So 61. We came to him. Oh, Lombard."
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      "text": "No, no, no, no, no, no. You're jumping ahead. I just want to focus on these three sentences, right? What's he seeing now? That the slope is easier. This is so hard for you guys. Okay. He sees something. It makes him really, really happy. Excited. What is it?"
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      "text": "Paradise."
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      "text": "Let's keep on going. Okay. Let's go. Huh? Yeah. Like, you guys keep on going. I can't see it. Right? He sees it. It makes him really, really happy. Beatrice. Okay. Let's read it again. Okay. There's only like so many possibilities here and you got, I just want something he sees here that makes him really, really happy. Yes. The slope cast a shadow. But what does he see?"
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      "text": "Like casting a shadow on something other than himself."
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      "text": "Guys visualize this. What is he seeing right now? What's he focused on right now?"
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      "text": "Did not align. Line 46, 47."
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      "text": "Let's just focus on these three lines. What three lines?"
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      "text": "Oh, 49 to 51. Sorry. Can you read it again for everyone? 49 to 51. Sorry."
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      "text": "And I, Lord, let us move ahead more quickly. For now I am less weary than before. And you can see the slope now casts a shadow."
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      "text": "He sees a shadow and he's really happy about it. Why?"
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      "text": "Right. So, so why is he having to see the shadow? What's going to happen now?"
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      "text": "Maybe another friend."
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      "text": "He's going to chase the shadow. Right, right. So, so this is, what's happening is he sees shadow and so, so what he knows, so what does happen? What's going to happen now once a shadow is cast? He's going to be mauled by his fans again, right? You understand? So that's what makes him excited. Not Beatrice, not God, not the slope, not purgatory. He's like, screw all that. I want my shadow, man. That's what I care about. Okay. Every time I catch a shadow, people are going to run up to me and say, hey, can I have the autograph? So he's become addicted to his own fame. Do you understand the idea here? Okay. He's narcissistic. He's like, all I care about is my shadow. Now I like forget Beatrice, forget heaven. I care about my shadow. That's it. Okay. And this is also true for people who are celebrities today, right?"
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      "text": "All they care about is their fame, right? If you're a social media influencer, what's the only thing you care about exactly, right? The metrics, the number of subscriptions you have, the amount of views you get, right? That's all you care about. And you're always like, how do I get more? How do I get more of these subscriptions? And so what happens eventually to some? Yes."
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      "text": "I had consumed by it. So then they are eaten alive. So then they do all kinds of extreme outrageous things because blood and gore is what sells the newspaper. So then you, at the end, turn into destruction of yourself."
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      "text": "Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, there's so many examples, right. Of social media influencers who kill themselves or who do outrageous things to attract attention. Cause like. All they care about are the ratings, okay. Right. So, so that's what Donnie is saying here. Like fame makes you egotistical, narcissistic, and it's an empty life. Okay. Cause like literally all he cares about now is his shadow, okay. Which is just an illusion. Right. That doesn't make sense. You guys. All right."
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      "time_label": "2:15:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Uh, let's, let's keep on reading 52 as long as it is stay, we'll make as much headway as possible. He answered, but our climb won't be as rapid as you thought. You will not reach the peak before you see the sun returning. Now he hides behind the hills. You cannot interrupt his light, but see beyond a soul who is completely apart and seated looking toward us. He will show us where to climb most speedily. We came to him. Oh, Lombard soul. What pride and what to stay and we're in your stands. Your eyes moved with such dignity, such gravity. He said no thing to us, but let us pass his eyes intent upon us. Okay. Only as the lion watches when it is at rest. Yet Virgil made his way to him, appealing to him to show us how we'd best ascend. And he did not reply to that request, but asked us what our"
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      "text": "country was and who we were at which my gentle guide began Mantua and that spirit who had been so solitary rose from his position saying, oh, Mantua and I'm Sodelo from your own land and each embrace the other. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "So, um, Virgil has met on the poet Sodelo, who is actually a very important poet. He has something called a. Troubadour, which is a love poet, uh, a poet of the quality love tradition. Okay. Uh, and they're both from, from the same place. And so they embrace each other and you can see how happy and enthusiastic Virgil is to meet someone from, um, the same area. I keep, keep on going."
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      "text": "Line 76, uh, abject Italy, your, you in of sorrows, you ship without a Helmsman Helmsman and harsh seas, no queen of provinces, but off bordellos. That noble soul had said. Such enthusiasm. His city's sweet name was enough for him to welcome their, his fellow citizen. But those who are alive within you now can't live without their warring. Even those whom one same wall and one same moat and close not each other squalid Italy search around your shores and then look inland. See if any part of you delight in peace. What use was there in a Justinian's mending your bridle when the saddles empty indeed, was there no rains, your shame or less are you, who have you understood what God or. And would then attend to things devout and in the saddle surely would allow Caesar to sit. See how this beast turns spheres because there are no spurs that would correct it. Since you"
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      "start": 8265.28,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "have laid your hands upon the bit, Oh, German Albert, you who have abandoned that steed become recalcitrant and savage. You who should ride a stride at saddle bow bows upon your blood made the just judgment of the stars to send with signs. So strange and plain that your successor has to feel its terror for both you and your father and your greed for lands. It lay more close at hand, allowed the garden of the empire to be gutted. Come you who pay no heed. Do come and see Montechi Capileti, sad already and filled with fear, Menaldi for the Pesci. Come cruel one, come see the tribulation of your nobility and heal their hurts and see and how disconsolate it's Santa Fiora. Come see your Rome who widowed and alone weeps bitterly both day and night. She moans, my Caesar, why are you not at my side? Come, see how much your people love each other,"
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      "text": "and if no pity for us moves you, may shame for your own repute move you to act. And if I am allowed, oh highest Jove, to ask, you who on earth were crucified for us, have you turned elsewhere your just eyes? Or are you in your judgment step devising a good that we cannot see, completely dissevered from our way of understanding? For all the towns of Italy are full of tyrants, and each townsman who becomes a partisan is soon a traitor. My Florence, you indeed may be content that this digression would leave you exempt. Your people striving spare you this lament. Others have justice in their hearts, and thought is slow to let it fly off from their bow. But your folk keep it ready on their lips. Others refuse the weight of public service, whereas your people eagerly respond, even an ass and shout, I'll take it on. You might be happy now, for you have cause."
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      "text": "You with your richest peace, judiciousness. You with your wealth. If I speak truly, facts won't prove me wrong. Compared to you, Athens and Lacedaemon, though civil cities with their ancient laws had merely sketched the life of righteousness. For you devised provisions so ingenious, whatever threats October sees you spin, when mid -November comes will be unspun. How often in the time you can remember have you changed laws and coinage, offices and customs and revised your citizens? And if your memory has some clarity, then you will see your citizens. yourself like that sick woman who finds no rest upon her feather bed but turning tossing tries to"
    },
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      "text": "ease her pain okay so this kind of was about into two parts okay the first part we see the vanity of dante right all he cares about is this shadow because the shadow is bringing him everlasting fame where he is but in the second half of the canto dante goes on this lament about italy uh it's returning to the prophetic tradition where he is um saying that italy is full of sin um and he's being very sarcastic about all this he's being very ironic and um he's almost appealing to divine justice and saying that italy um is terrible it's full of sin it's like sodom and gomorrah and so how can we explain this uh the economy right on one hand you is just focused on his fame his shadow on the other hand he goes on this little mat about uh"
    },
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      "text": "the fate of italy yes i think because he's thinking what good could my fame ever do other than change italy and he's using this as an opportunity he's thinking about well i'm famous now it's kind of a meta thing to the reader speaking of fame what should a good famous person do but instruct his nation yeah okay anyone else yes i think also that he's talking about how he feels the pull of fame even in his self but there are people he's talking about that are even beyond that when they're not even asked to to do something they just try and gain power immediately who's your favorite celebrity like a movie star or like um i just tried to ditch all them for jesus because they were hand flows okay does anyone have a celebrity that they worship or whatever what are they like"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "yes kanye west yeah kyan west okay all right so why do you what what does kanye west say about the world that allows you to admire him uh not just not necessarily about his opinion"
    },
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      "text": "on the world um i admire him because he there's there's a saying of him uh is um we're just what what what we do um we should be we how should i phrase this um basically he's telling us to be who we are and to uh embrace us ourselves be be more courageous"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "yeah okay so you admire him for his songs which deliver a message of courage and uh hope okay"
    },
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      "text": "yes i would say uh kanye pretty much shares the same uh perspective with dante on on the world uh like um choose love over fear like be fearless and always be certain like be always be certain about who you are and like what your impact on the world right and be uh be imaginative right"
    },
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      "text": "are you concerned at all about his personal life the fact that you know he marries and divorces and he seems to pay no attention to his kids"
    },
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      "text": "are you at all concerned about his personal life i am pretty much concerned about his personal life and i don't think i i it doesn't seem good to me but uh besides those his personal life i think he still sticks sticks to himself and he's pretty much hadn't changed a bit uh among all this chaos and and uh yeah okay all right okay so this is hard okay um but i want to"
    },
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      "text": "uh uh bring up an idea that we learn in paradise which is there is the absolute will absolute will is just what you believe and who you are okay your absolute will who you are what you believe what your ideal state is and then there's the contingent will okay we learned this in paradise is contingent will which is what you choose to do okay an example is picarda because picarda is a just um person who is devoted to god right she is a princess and she's like i don't want to participate in this world of politics i want to go to a nunnery and devote myself to god that's the absolute will the contingent will are the choices you make in your life and so when her brother sent soldiers to kidnap her from the convent she did not resist she went with them okay so this is something to to keep in mind as"
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      "text": "we continue to read dante there is a difference okay there's difference between what you believe and what you say and what you do okay so yes so he is very much concerned about the failure of the world at the same time don is obsessed with his fame and and this is not necessarily a contradiction and in life what we're trying to do is align the two right the alignment of the soul and that's hard to do okay all right all right so let's go let's go to the next um canto okay sorry sorry sorry before we begin i i want i want to like think about this so dante is obsessed with his shadow because it's what's bringing him all the attention okay and so he's slowing down he's looking for like wherever his shadow is okay and he gets really excited when he see when he sees his shadow it's almost like a drug"
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      "text": "now okay and how does virgil feel about all this what is going in the mind of virgil as he's seeing this anyone yes i can't believe that beatrice sent me for this guy yeah that's right he's like what douchebag this guy is"
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      "text": "what a douchebag okay what else uh yes yeah um maybe virgil is happy virgil is happy why because"
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      "text": "um he finally corrupted yeah like i i told him to do things for everlasting fame now he's doing what i want so now and so now i control him yeah no no that's that's not how virgil thinks what is virgil's major emotion right now it's kind of frustration right like what a douchebag this guy is but what else what's the major emotion you would feel if you were virgil impatience right he's telling ver uh hurry up yes a little bit of jealousy i think jealousy right i think if i were a virgin i i'd be very jealous about this okay does that make sense okay all right so remember where we are where dante is now obsessed with his shadow and virgil's like oh my god what a douchebag and like he and so he so virgil wants to move as fast as possible right okay okay uh let's let's continue"
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      "text": "to read canto seven when glad and gracious welcomings had been repeated three and four times then sordello drew himself back and asked but who are you before the spirits worthy of ascent to god had been directed to this mountain my bones were buried by octavian i'm virgil and i'm deprived of heaven for no fault other than my lack of faith this was the answer given by my guy"
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      "text": "um we we know virgil is lying here what is false about what he just said so don't ask him who are you and i think i'm virgil and i'm deprived of heaven for no fault other than my lack of faith"
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      "text": "where's the lie yes i'll deprive of heaven because of his lack of faith it's his active"
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      "text": "ego that he chose to be okay so we know it's a lie okay and how do we know it's a lie but for a fact and how and how do we know we know it's a lie he may not know yes"
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      "text": "because he could never have made it to heaven uh because he was born before uh mary gave birth to jesus so he was never gonna make it anyway he was always gonna end up in limbo"
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      "text": "well that's what virgil believes but we know it's a lie why we know for a fact it's a lie also because he betrayed god through his work no no no no no i'm saying like we know for"
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      "text": "fact it's a lie because of what evidence pagans and pagans in purgatory but how do we know that"
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      "text": "kato do you understand we know this is a lie because we just saw kato in purgatory and kato we know for fact is a pagan and kato was like oh i'm a christian now no no he's like i'm still kato okay so we know this is a lie right does virgil know he's lying here we know it's a lie but does he know it's a lie no i'm saying does virgil know it's a lie right yes uh i i think he he don't he doesn't know it's a lie yes it's hard not to know that it's a lie because he met kato he"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "talked to him yeah right you know he's like you're the other me and why are you here i'm not like"
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      "text": "hello we have this major encounter between kato and virgil it's a very embarrassing awkward encounter right so how could virgil not know he's lying that's exactly it kind of dissonance okay that's the idea here okay again what's amazing is kind of dissonance right what's amazing is that this is written in the 14th century and already dante knows about modern psychology right this is kind of dissonance"
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      "text": "what's kind of dissonance quality so you hold on to your own worldview because you you can't let it"
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      "text": "shatter you it's too much to you all right you guys understand so uh yeah did you want to add"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "to that yes so when you hear something that someone else else says that is different to your own perception of the world view you feel uncomfortable no no it's not you don't feel"
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      "text": "you don't feel it no no you don't feel uncomfortable what do you do you reject it you understand okay so what's happened is virgil had this encounter with kato it was so traumatic for him that he just blocked it out he doesn't remember this encounter he doesn't remember kato uh did you want to say something"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "yeah i was uh just recently i looked at the definitions and etymological origins of a an illusion and a delusion an illusion is like a magic trick and your mind's like oh that's not real but you know it's not real and a delusion is when you accept it into your whole essence"
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      "text": "right exactly okay so that's what this this is really interesting what's happening right where virgil goes to purgatory for the first time meets kato knows for a fact now that pagans are allowed access to purgatory and he's like screw this i don't and he forgets about it and it's like forever blocked from his memory okay so this reveals so much about his character and his motivations right all right"
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      "text": "let's keep on going line 10 even like one who suddenly has seen something before him and then marveling dust and does not believe saying it is is not so did sordello seem and then he bent his brow returned to virgil humbly and clasped him where the lesser presence clasps he said a glory of the latins you through whom our tongue revealed this power you eternal honor of my native city what merit or what grace shows you to me if i deserve to hear your word then answer tell me if you're from hell and from what cloister through every circle of the sorry kingdom he answered him i journeyed here a power from heaven moved me and with that i come not for the having but not having done i lost the sight that you desire the sun that high sun i was laid in recognizing there's a place below that only shadows not torments have"
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      "text": "a sign to sadness their lament is not an outcry but a sigh there i am with the infant innocence those whom the teeth of death had ceased before me they were set free from human sinfulness there i'm with those souls who were not clothed in the three holy virtues but who knew and followed after all the other virtues and if you know and you're able to would you point out the path that leads more quickly to the true entry point of purgatory"
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      "text": "okay sorry so let's let's let's figure out this okay so sordello says oh my god you are him you are the virgil um and how and so like so deal a little humbles himself before uh virgil he basically bows down to virgil and how does virgil feel about this how does virgil feel about this bittersweet bittersweet again you're so generous um not bittersweet no just happy he's ecstatic okay he could be happier in his life why"
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      "text": "why can't he be happier in his life yeah i mean he's gained he seems to have got a taste of the fame even though he's has no shadow and that his achievements in life seem to have raised him above the state and that the guy still really loves him even though he asks are you from hell and he goes yeah kind of but the guy's like oh my god it's still really lovely"
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      "text": "what is virgil really pissed off about right now what is virgil not happy about right now"
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      "text": "yeah uh he's pissed off for the dandy seems like dandy has gained more things over yes exactly right"
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      "text": "he's pissed about dante like why is starting more famous here than i am and now he meets someone like oh you're more famous than dante and virgil's like oh yes i am okay and how do we know he is ecstatic let's let's let's read his speech okay and tell me what in his speech tells us he is ecstatic through every sorry uh sorry line 22 line 22."
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      "text": "through every circle of the sorry kingdom he answered him i journeyed here a power from heaven moved me and with that i come not for the having but not having done i lost the sight that you desire the sun that high sun i was laid in recognizing there's a place below that only shadows not torments have a sign to sadness their lament is not an outcry but aside there i am with the infant innocence those whom the teeth of death had ceased before they were set free from human sinfulness there i'm with those souls who were not left to die in the father's cradle i'm with those souls who were not left to die in the clothed in the three holy virtues but who knew and followed after all the other virtues okay so"
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      "text": "he's ecstatic and we know because of his speech what is interesting about his speech here he has"
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      "text": "analyzed the language yes the first point that jumps out is that he says he is in the other virtues so that he didn't have the three key ones but that he is very much exemplifying all the"
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      "text": "others in his life yeah so if you're really happy you tend to like boast about yourself right it's like look how great i am yes okay that's that's one thing yes what else yeah when he talks"
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      "text": "about his traveling through the circles he doesn't mention dante or the mission he just said it's the power of heaven he said i came up through the yes he becomes a focus all of his attention right"
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      "text": "he forgets to say then before he was like okay well i'm helping guide dante through uh um how i'm purported but now it's just like me me me okay again that's if you're really ecstatic you just focus on yourself right what else and again this this is different from his other speeches okay uh yes well um i lost"
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      "text": "the sight that you desired the sun that high sign the high sun i was late in recognizing so in a way he now does recognize the the christian god basically and he he also recognizes that he he's wrong or he was wrong"
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      "text": "before no he's not that's not what he's doing here actually okay"
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      "text": "yeah yes i think he's beautifying the places that he is at and he's trying to kind of photoshop it like lemme is not an outcry and i'm with the innocent and it's just too bad i died before you know jesus came"
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      "text": "he's really responsible a lot of adjectives yeah he is exaggerating he's he's making he's he's making he's creating like this opulent full fat a language and that's different from his speeches before where he was very terse very short okay very brief and to the point now he's just like look um like trying to show off his poetry you"
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      "text": "understand he's trying to impress yeah it's full of simile and metaphors and he's making himself"
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      "text": "an angel almost boastful yeah wagging and he's trying to impress yes yeah one more thing or"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "well there are more yes he also mentioned that in hell they're full of shadows so this is him saying that the fact that dente has shadows behind him is not a great deal that is very clever"
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      "text": "yes i didn't see that but that's exactly correct yes it's like why you guys like brat like like focus on his shadow there's shows everywhere in hell man right he's still pissed about dante exactly yes i thank you thank you for that yes you anyone anyone else okay and i yes anyone else yes i thought the infant innocence going to paradise oh no no no um it depends on the situation uh most infants go to limbo but there are some parents who pray for the infant and who do so many good deeds that their actions help the infants ascend to heaven okay okay so those are special cases um okay yeah i would also yes first of all he raised his hand yeah in a conversation until he found out thatся that he uses he uses i a lot right i and he also this is actually pretty long by the standards of virgil's speeches"
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      "text": "okay so it just shows you how ecstatic he is that's funny somebody RECOGNIZES"
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      "text": "HIM AND KNOWS HE'S BETTER THAN dante yes it takes up six stanzas yeah compared to all his short"
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      "text": "turns versus yeah yeah he's usually very very uh turce yes keep on going in 40 he answered no fixed place has been a necessary point of appreciation no fixed place has been assigned to data before he got to give dante the dice one note it's called a"
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      "text": "to us i'm free to range about and climb as far as i may go i'll be your guide but see now how the day declines by night we cannot climb and therefore it is best to find some pleasant place where we can rest here to the right our spirits set apart if you allow me i shall lead you to them and not without the light you'll come to know them how is that he was asked is it that he who tried to climb by night would be impeded by others or his own lack of power and good sordello as his finger traced along the ground said once the sun has set then look even this line cannot be crossed and not that anything except the dark of night prevents your climbing up it is the night itself that implicates your will once darkness falls one can indeed retreat below and wander aimlessly about the slopes"
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      "text": "while the horizon has enclosed the day at which my lord as if in under in wonder said lead us then to there where as you say we may derive the light from this night's day okay so"
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      "text": "it's a very particular particular rule to purgatory which is like once it's night you can't move anymore or you can't cross certain boundaries anymore okay why would they have this rule in purgatory you didn't have this in hell you don't have this in heaven why would you have it in purgatory uh yes you you then you okay"
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      "text": "taking a real place like as it is on earth so you've been traveling on earth back then"
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      "text": "in middle ages you can't okay so it's trying to imitate the real world as much as possible"
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      "text": "uh what else i was gonna say something similar but i also think that other than imitating the real world if you're basically trying to purge your shadow so in in the mystic world of purgatory it's pretty difficult to know where you would try and chase if you were like trying to cleanse yourself if there there was no light at all to"
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      "text": "be a reference okay okay okay all right let's let's be very simple about this okay in the day they're walking right and these souls are so excited that at night if they could they walk would walk as well and so they have this rule which is like at night you cannot proceed any further okay you cannot advance your progress this is very strange because you would think that a very very idea purgatory is to encourage you to expiate your sins as fast as possible so why would they have this rule um you cannot advance during the night yes"
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      "text": "it's maybe a moment for people to self -reflect yes why like because you don't move then you're just thinking about where you are why you are there and then what's going on well if it's night and you can't move what are you doing you're talking to people imagining oh yeah dreaming"
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      "text": "you're sleeping right when you sleep what happens you dream right you understand the and you're you're right the entire point of purgatory is to cause self -reflection and one way to to provoke self -reflection is just to have the guy sleep man you know because when you sleep you dream and your dreams reveal things to you that you couldn't know before does that make sense okay so the entire point of purgatory is to force self -reflection and that's what's about that and that's what makes it different from hell but there are different ways in which you can force self -reflection right so one way is who the discussion there but another way is for dreaming okay and what's another way to force self -reflection can you guys guess dreaming sleeping is a way to force self -reflection right talking about other people is another way but but there's also other ways and what are they"
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      "text": "seeing someone else do the actions that you do yes that's right yes good what else worshiping praying yes exactly and they do worship and pray here yes what else yes abstinence from the"
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      "text": "things so any kind of indulgence or process that you do just taking it away and seeing what is left"
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      "text": "in the void of your life okay all right so yeah that's correct okay but but i want more common things okay so sleeping is one way and then another way is do people ever take a step back"
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      "text": "in purgatory there is it is it a beeline one step in front of the other always progress because i self -reflect when i fail or i have a shortcoming sure sure yes so so"
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      "text": "they will be forced to like stand still and and fail yes okay but but and what is the really common way in society that forces our self -reflection maybe walking to me maybe take a walk uh yes you learn from mistakes yes writing maybe writing yes what's causing all this like like reading or kind of go to class or something okay okay okay okay um we're gonna have time okay but art guys art a -r -t art does it make sense to you when you when you go to a museum and you see all these paintings when you hear great music when you watch a great movie it forces self -reflection on you right does it make sense so dreaming artwork okay and we'll see a lot of artwork in purgatory"
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      "text": "all right uh let's keep on going line 64. we had not gone far off when I perceived that just as Valley's Hollow Mountains here in our world so that mountain there was hollowed that shade said it is there that we shall go to where the slope forms of itself a lap at that place will await the day's coming there was a slanting path now steep now flat it led us to a point beside the valley just where its bordering Edge had dropped by half gold and fine silver coquineal white lead and Indian like night highly polished bright fresh Emerald at fresh Emerald at the moment it is dampened if placed within that Valley all would be defeated by the grass and flowers colors just as the lesser gifts way to the greater and nature there not only was a painter but from the sweetness of a thousand odors she had derived an unknown mangled scent"
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      "text": "upon the green grass and the flowers I saw seeded spirits singing salve Regina they were not visible from the outside okay and"
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      "text": "also nature as well right you are yours of nature okay keep on going before the meager sun seeks out"
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      "text": "its nest Manchuan, who led us here, do not ask me to guide you down among them. From this bank you'll be better able to make out the acts and features of them all than if you were to join them in the hollow. He who is seated highest with the look of one Tulex in what he undertook, whose mouth, although the rest sing, does not move, was Emperor Rudolf, one who could have healed the wounds that were the death of Italy, so that another later must restore her. His neighbor, whose appearance comforts him, governed the land in which are born the waters of Moldau, carries to the Elbe, and the Elbe to the sea, named Autocar. In swaddling bands he was more valiant than his son, the bearded Venceslas, who feeds on wantonness and ease. That small -nosed man, who seemed so close in counsel with his kindly friend, died in flight, deflowering the lily. So"
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      "text": "see how he beats his breast there, and you see the other shade, who, as he sighs, would rest his cheek upon his palm as on a bed. Father and father -in -law of the pest of France, they know his life. It's filled its vice out of that knowledge grows, the grief that has pierced them. That other, who seems so robust and sings in time with him, who has a nose so manly, wore the cord of every virtue. And if the young man seated there behind him had only followed him as king, then valor might have been poured from vessel into vessel. One cannot say this of his other heirs. His kingdoms now belong to James and Frederick, but they do not possess. His best bequest. How seldom human worth ascends from branch to branch, and this is willed by him who grants that gift, that one may pray to him for it. My words suggest"
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      "text": "the large -nosed one no less than they refer to Peter, singing with him, whose air brings Poully and Provence distress. The plant is lesser than its seed, just as the man whom Beatrice and Margaret wed is lesser than the husband Constance has. You see the king who let the simple life seed it alone, Henry of England, he has better fortune with his progeny. He who is seated lowest on the ground and looking up is William the Marquis. For him, both Alexandria and its war make Monferrato and Canovese mourn."
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      "text": "Okay, so these are monarchs, right? And again, they are anti -purgatory. They are waiting until they've made their penance and they're ready to climb purgatory, okay? All right, this is going to be Purgatory 8."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Canto 8. It was the hour that turned seafarers' longings home. The hour that makes their hearts grow tender. Upon the day they bid sweet friends farewell. The hour that pierces the new traveler with love when he has heard far off. The bell that seems to mourn the dying of the day. When I began to let my hearing fade and watch one of those souls who, having risen, had signaled with his hand for attention, he joined his palms and lifting them he fixed all his attention on the east, as if to say to God, I care for nothing else. Te lucis ante. And issued from his lips with such devotion and with notes so sweet that I was moved beyond my mind. And then the other spirits followed him, devoutly, gently, through all of that hymn, their eyes intent on the supernal spheres. Hear, reader, let your eyes look sharp at truth, for now the veil has grown so very thin, it is not difficult to pass within."
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      "text": "I saw that company of noble spirits, silent and looking upward, pale and humble, as of an expectation. And I saw, emerging and descending from the sky, the light of the sky, the light of the sky, the light of the sky, from above two angels bearing flaming swords, of which the blades were broken off without their tips. Their garments, just as green as newborn leaves, were agitated, fanned by their green wings and trailed behind them. And one angel came and stood somewhat above us, while the other descended on the opposite embankment, flanking that company of souls between them. My eyes made out their blond heads clearly, but my sight was dazzled by their faces, just like any sense bewildered by excess. Te lucis ante. And issued from his lips with such devotion and with notes so very thin, it is not difficult to pass within."
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      "text": "So I went up to Mary's bosom, said Sordello, to serve as custodians of the valley against the serpent that will soon appear. At this, not knowing where its path might be, frozen with fear, I turned around, pressing close to the trusty shoulders. And Sordello continued, let us now descend among the great shades in the valley. We shall speak with them, and seeing you, they will be pleased. I think that I had taken but three steps to go below when I saw one who watched attentively, trying to recognize me. The hour had now arrived when, when air grows dark, but not so dark that it deprived my eyes and his of what before they were denied. He moved toward me, and I advanced toward him. Noble Judge Nino, what delight was mine when I saw you were not among the damned."
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      "text": "Okay, all right, so one last question, and then we'll take a break, okay? So clearly, there are references to the Garden of Eden, because if you read Genesis, what happens is we get banished to the Garden of Eden, and there are two angels with flaming swords that now watch over the Garden of Eden to bar entry. Um, what are the two angels doing here? Did you guys spot that? What are the two angels doing? They have flaming swords. What are they doing?"
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      "text": "They dance at the valley against the serpent."
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      "text": "Yeah, so what, what does that mean? They're protecting the mountain from the devil, right? From the snake. And what does that mean? What, what, what does that mean? Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "That even in self -reflection, the devil can come in, or that in, like, this is a place of art, of looking at great people of history for Dante, um, but he's being reminded that this is not a place safe from all evil, and that there's still temptation and trouble."
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      "text": "Sure, yes. That's right. The snake will always be there, okay? The snake is eternal. Yes? Um, okay, let's just say that you, you, We're all going to purgatory, okay? And we see these angels. What would our first fear be? Sorry, we'd be afraid, right? Because we think these angels, what are they doing here?"
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      "text": "They're safeguarding purgatory from evil. So if I'm going through the gate, right, I see these angels, I'd be worried that they might stop me."
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      "text": "Yes, right? Because Genesis, the Bible told us that these angels are there to protect the Garden of Eden. Which means what now? Which means what? What's this thing? Why is there a snake here? Where's the snake trying to go?"
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      "text": "Because we're in the Garden of Eden right now."
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      "text": "Okay, so the first idea is there is a Garden of Eden, and that's where the snake is trying to go, right? So the Garden of Eden is actually on top of Mount Purgatory, okay? But again, if you're a Christian, you're kind of surprised by all this. Why? Why would you be surprised to hear there are two angels guarding against a snake in Purgatory?"
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      "text": "Yes? I don't know whether this is my Paradise Lost knowledge talking, but I thought that Satan comes into a snake who's in the Garden of Eden already. He doesn't have to make a journey through any other places. So you'd be confused that the snake has to do anything to get in there."
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      "text": "Right, so remember, we are now in the future, right? So what's happened is Adam and Eve were tempted by the snake, and they ate the fruit, and now they've been banished from, and they were banished from the Garden of Eden. And so why would this all be surprising for us?"
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      "text": "Yes? Maybe because people just feel fear, you know, so they don't want to die, and they just want to leave. And this kind of fear and desire. If you're a Christian, yes."
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      "text": "After Jesus died for our sins, are we allowed to go back to the Garden of Eden?"
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      "text": "We're allowed to go back now, guys. Okay? It's open now. The angels are there not to bar our entry. They're there to bar the snake from entry. We're allowed to go in now. Right? Were you taught this in Christian school? And it makes sense logically, right? If Jesus died for our sins, and we're not redeemed in the eyes of God, theoretically, we should be allowed back in the Garden of Eden. Right? And that's what Todd is saying here. If it is true that we're redeemed, then the Garden of Eden should be open, right? And who redeemed us from our sins? Not Jesus, Mary. And how do we know that?"
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      "text": "Because Virgil tells us."
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      "text": "No, no, no, I'm saying in the text. How do we know that?"
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      "text": "Mary's bosom."
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      "text": "The angels come from Mary's bosom, right? Mary redeemed us, and so they came from our heart to protect us as we enter the Garden of Eden. Does that make sense? This is the cosmology of Dante. If Mary redeemed us, if Mary redeemed us, then we're allowed to go back to the Garden of Eden. Okay? Alright. Any questions about this?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes? Is there anyone there in the Garden of Eden? Is one of the subtexts of this fear that Dante feels that he's trying to get there, and maybe the snake will be there when he gets there? Or is the assumption here that there's already people hanging out in the Garden of Eden?"
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      "text": "Yes, so the Garden of Eden is at the very top of Mount Purgatory, okay? But our goal is not the Garden of Eden, right? Our goal is Heaven. So we're going to pass the Garden of Eden, but we're really trying to get to Heaven. But the point is, and this is really important, again, this is where Dante is optimistic. He's like, we've been redeemed already, therefore the Garden of Eden has been opened to us, and therefore we know we've been redeemed. Right? God has forgiven us for our original sin. Alright, any more questions? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "So the Garden of Eden is earthly paradise, and people in Purgatory are concerned with earthly paradise."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "That's right, that's right. Right. Okay, great. Okay, so let's take a break, and we'll come back at 1 o 'clock, okay? Okay, good afternoon, welcome back. So, I just received an email from Professor Bromwich, and he said you guys are lovely, which is a pretty high praise coming from him, okay? But he is right, you have improved a great deal, and I think that our discussion right now is very deep. If Dante were here, he would approve. He would be smiling at us. Okay, so congratulations on everyone. Okay, so any questions from this morning? Any issues from this morning? You would like to... Any questions? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I'm just a little bit confused about what would you say is the major point of the long canto where he lists all the kings, because he's such an economical poet. Yes. But there's just so many kings listed. I'm assuming that's to weigh down on the reader or something, but I'm not 100 % sure what that is. Yeah, you're absolutely right in that Dante does not waste words."
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      "text": "This is why this is poetry. It is the best economic poetry. So, again, this is all speculation, but what I think Dante is trying to achieve is one of totality, one of completion. Right? So he wants... So at his heart, he's democratic. So he's trying to speak to everyone. And he's trying to give people a sense of the unity of the world. And so he's trying to create good role models. And at this time in history, there are a lot of really bad kings. Right? And what he's trying to say is that even if you're a bad king, there is hope for you. Right? Because what's the most common thing to do? If you sin, you're like, well, I'm screwed anyway. So go for it, man. You know? I'm going to hell anyway. Who cares? I'm just going to enjoy my time on earth for the next 10 years, kill as many people as possible."
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      "text": "Then I'll burn in hell for eternity. You know, at least I'll die of a bang. Right? Because there's no hope for me. So at this time in history, people are very black and white about the way they perceive the world. And what Don is trying to say is, no, no, no, guys. That's not how it works. There's hope for everyone. You can be the total asshole for all of your life. But at the very last minute, you're like, you know what? I want to repent. And God will give you a chance. It may mean you are in purgatory for like the next million years, but there's still hope for you. Right? Does that make sense? But that's what I think is happening. But I'm sure there are other explanations. But thank you for that. Any more questions before we continue?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes? My last query is that if Virgil is so smart, why does he feel jealous, ever?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "What do you mean by that?"
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      "text": "Well, like, I was told from when I was young that jealousy is bad, so I just tried very hard for all of my life to try and not be jealous of other people. I thought that was like an obvious mission. So I thought that people who were very developed in their mind and soul would have left jealousy behind. So it strikes me as surprising that Virgil would feel jealous of anybody. But I can see how he would be in this scenario."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so that's a very interesting point you make. So there are many religious traditions that teach you that the ego is a source of sin. If you turn away from the ego, you move towards God. But Dali doesn't believe that. Dali believes that the ego is the source of our imagination. These emotions that we have, whether it be jealousy, anger, hatred, they're part of who we are. And they help develop our imagination with color and with nuance. So it's not about avoiding these emotions. It's coming to terms with these emotions through experience, through reflection. And it's a process of self -development. Okay? And this is why Divine Comedy is constructed the way it is. It's a journey. Right? Because remember, in Hell, Dante is just like the biggest asshole. Right? He tells the father of his rival, your son's burning in Hell. Right? That's just pure jealousy. Pure envy. But what will happen is that in Purgatory, he will move into a process of redemption and salvation."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay? So that's what Dante believes. Does that make sense? Great. Okay. Any more questions? All right. Let's continue."
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      "text": "Canto 8, verse 52. He moved toward me, and I advanced toward him. Noble Judge Nino, what delight was mine when I saw you were not among the damned. There were no gracious meeting we neglected before he asked me, When did you arrive across long seas beneath this mountainside? I told him, Oh, by way of the sad regions I came this morning. I'm still within the first life, although by this journeying I earned the other. When they heard my answers for death, Velo and Judge Nino just behind him drew back like people suddenly astonished. One turned to Virgil, and the other turned and called to one who sat there, Up, Corrado! Come see what God out of his grace has willed. Then when he turned to me, by that especial gratitude you owe to him who hides his primal aim so that no human mind may find the floor to it, when you return across the wide waves, ask my own Giovanna."
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      "text": "There where the pleas of innocence are answered to pray for me. I do not think her mother still loves me. She gave up her white veils, surely, poor woman, she will wish them back again. Through her one understands so easily how brief in woman is love's fire, when not rekindled frequently by eye or touch. The serpent that assigns the Milanese their camping place will not provide for her a tuum as fair as would Galora's rooster. So Nino spoke. His bearing bore the seal of that unswerving seal which, though it flames within the heart, maintains a sense of measure. My avid eyes were steadfast, staring at that portion of the sky where stars are lower, even as spoke when they approached the axle. And my guide, son, what are you staring at? And I replied, I'm watching those three torches with which the southern pole is all aflame. Then he"
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      "text": "to me, the four bright stars you saw this morning now are low, beyond the pole, and where those four stars were, these three now are. Even as Virgil spoke, Sordello drew him to himself, drew him to himself, and said, I see there our adversary, he said. And then he pointed with his finger. So adversary is the name of Satan, right?"
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      "text": "Satan literally means adversary in the Hebrew Bible. So again, it's referencing back to the Garden of Eden, and it's saying to us that we've redeemed ourselves, our adversary has been defeated. I keep on going."
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      "text": "Line 97. At the unguarded edge of that small valley there was a serpent similar, perhaps, to that which suffered Eve, the bitter food. Through grass and flowers the evil streak advanced. From time to time it turned its head and licked its back like any beast that preens and sleeks. I did not see, and therefore cannot say, just how the hawks of heaven made their move, but I indeed saw both of them in motion. Hearing the green wings cleave the air, the serpent fled, and the angels wheeled around as each of them flew upward, back to his high station. The shade who, when the judge had called, had drawn closer to him. Through all of that pack had not removed his eyes from me one moment. So may the lantern that leads you on high, discovering your will, the wax one needs, enough for reaching the enamel peak. That shade began. If you have heard true"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-mdok9qaaa7q",
      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
      "source_title": "Dante #10: Purgatory Cantos 5-14",
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      "start": 11216.91,
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      "time_label": "3:06:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "tidings of Valdemarbera or the lands nearby, tell them to me, for there I once was mighty. Curado Malaspino was my name. I'm not the old Curado, but I am descended from him. To my own I bore that love that here is purified. I answered, I never visited your lands. But can there be a place in all of Europe where they're not celebrated? Such renown honors your house, acclaims your lords and lands, even when one has not yet to journey there. And so may I complete my climb. I swear to you, your honored house still claims the prize, the glory of the purse and of the sword. Custom and nature privilege it so that though the evil head contorts the world, your kin alone walk straight and shun the path of wickedness. And be sure of that. The sun will not have rested seven times within the bed that's covered and held fast by all the"
    },
    {
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      "text": "rams four feet before this gracious opinion squarely nailed into your mind with stouter nails than others' talk provides if the divine decree has not been stayed."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so he lists a lot of people from his real life, right? And you can imagine what he's doing is he is in exile from Florence and he needs to make a living, right? So basically by including families that he knows from Florence into this divine company, he's also soliciting donations from them. Does that make sense? It's like Yale, you know, taking donations. Alright, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Oh, he has a question."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Are we saying Dante was sponsored in a way?"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:08:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "He had patrons. That's right. But you could always ask for more. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Now she who shares the bed of old Tithonus, abandoning the arms of her sweet lover, grew white along the eastern balcony. The heavens facing her were glittering with gems set in the semblance of the chill animal that assails men with its tail. While night within the valley where we were had moved across two of the steps it climbs, and now the third step made night's wings incline, when I who bore something of Adam with me, feeling the need for sleep, lay down upon the grass where now all five of us were seated. At that hour closed to morning when the swallow begins her melancholy songs, perhaps in memory of her ancient sufferings, when free to wander farther from the flesh and less held fast by cares, our intellect's envisionings become almost divine. In dream I seemed to see an eagle poised with golden pinions in the sky, its wings were open, it was ready to swoop down."
    },
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      "start": 11392.08,
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      "text": "And I seemed to be there where Ganymede deserted his own family when he was snatched up for the high consistory. Within myself I thought, this eagle may be used to hunting only here, its claws refused to carry upward any prey found elsewhere. Then it seemed to me that, wheeling slightly and terrible with lightning, it swooped, snatching me up to the fire's orbit. And there it seemed that he and I were burning, and this imagined conflagration scorched me so, I was compelled to break my sleep. Just like the wicking of Achilles when he started up, casting his eyes about him, not knowing where he was, after his mother had stolen him asleep away from Chiron and her arms had carried him to Skyros. The Isle of the Greeks would later make him leave. Such was my starting up, as soon as sleep had left my eyes and I went pale, as will a man who, terrified, turns cold as ice."
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      "start": 11449.66,
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      "text": "The only one beside me was my comfort. By now the sun was more than two hours high, it was the sea to which I turned my eyes. My lord said, have no fear, be confident for we're well along our way. Do not restrain, but give free rein to all your strength. You have already come to purgatory, see there the rampart wall enclosing it. See where that wall is breached, the point of entry. Before at dawn that ushers in the day when soul was sleeping in your body, on the flowers that adorn the ground below, a lady came, she said, I'm Lucia, let me take hold of him who is asleep, that I may help to speed him on his way. Sordello and the other noble spirits stayed there, and she took you, and once the day was bright she climbed, I following behind. And here she set you down,"
    },
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      "start": 11498.17,
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      "text": "but first her lovely eyes showed that open entryway to me, then she and sleep together took their leave. Just like a man in doubt who then grows sure, exchanging fear for confidence, once truth has been revealed to him, so was I changed. And when my guide had seen that I was free from hesitation, then he moved with me behind him up the rocks and toward the heights. Okay, alright,"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:12:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "so let's analyze this. This is a very important section, because this is the first time he has a dream. He'll actually have many dreams, because as he points out, dreams come from the divine, okay? The divine is giving you a message. And what happens is that he falls asleep, he has a dream of an eagle snatching him, and he wakes up startled, and Virgil says, don't worry, it was actually Lucia who came down from heaven to carry you to the gate of purgatory, okay? Before they were anti -purgatory, now they've reached the gate of purgatory, and now they will make their ascent. And so that's a plotline of the first half of this canto. Now, if I were Dante's writing teacher, okay, and he came to me and he showed me this, I would be like, Dante, you're lazy. Okay? It's like you're trying to move the plot along, and you need to get to the gate of purgatory really fast, so you just make something up."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "I'm like, okay, an angel took me to the gate of purgatory, that's it. Okay, so C minus for you, Dante, which is basically a fail at Yale. Convince me I'm wrong. What would Dante say? Right? I'm reading this, I'm thinking like, this is lazy writing, man. You're skipping the plot, right? You don't know how to move the plot along, so you just, well, then we just got to purgatory because the angels took us. Convince me I'm wrong. How would Dante defend himself? He says, no, no, no, no, this is actually perfect. Yes?"
    },
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      "start": 11625.56,
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      "time_label": "3:13:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "With the divine plan or his cosmology, that you cannot enter purgatory without the love or support or the angel prayer of your family or friends, and that's how you get there. So it suits the theory."
    },
    {
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      "start": 11640.42,
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      "time_label": "3:14:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "That's right, okay. So one possibility is that Lucia and all the women, Rachel, Ruth, and Beatrice, are all praying for him. And so this is how he gets to the gate of purgatory, okay? That's one possibility. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So this whole journey, I don't want to say it's a dream, but it's like a vision of some sort. And so he's having a dream inside of a dream, so to speak. Could this be him willing it? Like, where there's a will, there's a way? So he dreams that he's carried, and then therefore he is carried?"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:14:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "I would say it's the opposite, right? Because Lucia literally carries him. Right? Lucia literally carries him all the way to the gate, which is a long way. And Virgil and Sardella have to walk. Anyone else? Want to try? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "So this entire trip, like, down the hill and up the mountain purgatory is supposed to be an experience that the reader can actually participate in. So, like, if we're to be, like, truly experience what Dante has experienced, we need to, like, like, listen to him, like, listen to someone else reporting what happened during our dreams, so that we can feel the same sense of doubt and yeah, doubt towards what he actually dreamed. Right."
    },
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      "time_label": "3:15:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And I agree with that. But the problem is, like, if you were to do that, you would write about how arduous the journey is, right? You would write about your emotions during this journey. You wouldn't say, like, I had a dream and then I got to where I am. Right? So that's why I would give him a C - because he's being lazy here. I'm trying to get you to convince me I'm not, he doesn't, he deserves an A+. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "I just think that for him to describe the arduous journey, any detail is a distraction and not true. Because, of course, he's creating the cosmology, but he would have to say there were some really tricky rocks, there were some animals, but what do these signify? I just think he doesn't want to confuse us with any detail that we'd read into before we get to the gates, because there's so much symbolic imagery. Even when he's trying to get through the gates, there's like three steps made out of different rock and stuff. And I just think any detail of the journey towards the gate would distract us from the symbolism past the gate."
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      "start": 11805.39,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "So yesterday we talked about this, right? How the details add to the journey. How details make us part of the story. Yes?"
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      "text": "Well, I don't know about Dante, but in life sometimes to get through purgatory, to get through life, you need help from other people. And sometimes these forms of help come at you without you necessarily being aware or conscious. I don't know if this is a message that it's trying to convey."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. But it is conscious, because Virgil tells him what the dream is about. Yeah? Go ahead."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I would connect it back to prior to our one hour break, we were just told by Sordello that nobody can move ahead at night. But this is actually, you can move ahead at night. And so I would argue that you know, there's transcendence to this, and you can actually transcend whatever rules there are."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Right. Okay. I actually took this to I actually interpreted this as like, he was so tired, he slept through the day. And so Virgil sort of kept on walking, and he was asleep, so Lucius had to come and get him."
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      "text": "Okay. Yes? I had your same interpretation, but then there's a line, it's like the sun rose, and then"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah, so it's daytime, he's still asleep. Yeah. Right. Okay. Any other suggestions?"
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      "text": "Yes? Is it possible that Dante is so happy because when people get so happy they can't remember so many things, and they just, maybe."
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      "text": "Okay. Alright, so we have to remember that ultimately this is a movie, okay? This is a journey, a movie, where the characters are real. What is Dante's state of mind right now? What does he really care about right now? What is he in love with right now? His shadow, okay? Okay, so he's in love with his shadow, so he's like walking really slowly, he's procrastinating, he's oversleeping, he's spending a lot of time with the other shades, like, offering autographs, okay? Beatrice is up there watching this, and what is she thinking right now? Yeah, she's kind of pissed right now, right? Why is she pissed? Yeah, she's like, what about me, man? Right? I only did you this favor because I thought you truly loved me and only loved me, and now you're in love with your own shadow. Alright? So if you're Beatrice, what are you gonna do?"
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      "text": "This guy and just bring him to me? Closer?"
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      "text": "No, but like, why not just go and punch the guy, you know? Curse the guy. Why are you like lifting the guy and carrying him to the gates of purgatory? Yes? Okay. Right, but I'm trying to figure out why not just, like, curse this guy, like, because Virgil would do that, right? Right?"
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      "text": "Beatrice in heaven isn't gonna curse anybody, but, um, what is Saint Lucia, uh, Saint, uh, is that a clue?"
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      "text": "Uh, Saint Lu, Saint Lucy. Saint Lucy. So, there's argument about who she is, but um, what most people believe is that she is someone who gave, who, um, became a Christian, and then when she was forced to get married, she killed herself rather than um, um, get married. And so she's like the opposite of Picardia. Yeah. Um, there's, there are lots of these saints in the church."
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      "text": "Yes? I think if you're coming from a mother or like a wife perspective, or girlfriend, because you love this guy so much, and you know that he has his faults and he's stupid sometimes, but right, but you still forgive him and you want to speed him alone, and so then you're like, I'm gonna send you help so that you just keep this part of temptation that's gonna make you fall, make you slow down. Yeah."
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      "text": "It's a nudge, right? And this nudge is gonna force Donny to think, why did this happen? Why did I have this dream, right? Because it's a dream. It's an eel coming to snatch you up. What does this dream signify? Right? So it's two things. It's one, it's like the dream, and Donny's forced to think about how to interpret this dream, and it's also Lucia coming down from heaven, um, herself, and carrying Dante. If you are Dante, what are you thinking right now? What are you thinking right now? Yes?"
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      "text": "I'll probably feel a bit guilty, and then I'll just stick to my task?"
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      "text": "No, you're not gonna feel guilty. What are you gonna feel? Yes? Maybe annoyed? Not annoyed. Lucky. No. If you're Dante, and this happens to you, what are you gonna feel? Ashamed. Uh, ashamed maybe, but also no, I mean like, like, yes?"
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      "text": "But it's like, oh man, all my friends, now I don't get to see them."
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      "text": "No, I would feel fear. Why would I feel fear?"
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      "text": "Was Matt, he's no longer going to get all the help from her, and then he'll just be left in the purgatory?"
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      "text": "Uh, no, it's actually much more subtle than that. Can you try?"
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      "text": "Um, because the story of Ganymede is kind of creepy to me, because he was like, kidnapped by the eagle. Yes. And he became the cupbearer so he's like, basically the slave in heaven."
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      "text": "Yeah, that's exactly right. The dream is making him afraid, right? Do you understand? The dream isn't like, oh wow, Lucia came to like, you know, take me to purgatory. I'm really, really happy. No, it's fear. The emotion in the dream is fear. He's afraid. Right? But I'm trying to figure out why he'd be afraid. Because Lucia came to help you out. Right? Why would he be, why would he be afraid? Do you guys know how girlfriends, do you know how girlfriends behave? Yes? Yeah. Oh my god. Guys, do you not have girlfriends, okay? Or a wife? Or a mother? Like, they're really pissed at you. What do they do?"
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      "text": "Yes? Well, Beatrice thinks that Dante's kind of cheating on her, basically. Basically, yes. And she, and so they will, the angel will judge her maybe for it, so that's what he's afraid of. That he's gonna get judged based on that. Right, okay. So,"
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      "text": "so I, like, this is hard, but this is a life lesson for our guys, okay? Truly, if you're a girlfriend, right, and like, you do something stupid, and she shouts at you, right, she hits you, you're good. Okay? But if she like, she buys you dinner, and she gives you flowers, you're really screwed. She's gonna kill you now. Okay? Life lesson for, for, for the guys in here. Alright? So, Dante is now terrified, right? You understand? He had this dream, which is like, ha, someone's pissed at you, Dante, right? This dream is an omen. It's a divine message. And then, Virgil says, Lucia came, and like, and then Virgil, and then Dante's like, Lucia's Beatrice's best friend, right? I'm now in a lot of trouble. Right? And he knows! It's because, for the past, you know, whatever, he's been in love with his own shadow. Okay? But, but you see how, how amazing this is, right?"
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      "text": "Because it gives you complete insight into human psychology, and it's very real. Okay? Alright, let's keep, let's keep on going."
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      "text": "Verse 70. Reader, you can see clearly how I lived my matter. Do not wonder, therefore, if I have to call on more art to sustain it. Now we were drawing closer. We had reached the part from which, where first I had seen a breach, precisely like a gap that cleaves the wall. I now made out a gate, and there below it, three steps, their colors different, leading to it, and a custodian who had not yet spoken. And I looked more and more directly at him, and I saw him seated on the upper step, his face so radiant I could not bear it. And in his hand he held a naked sword, which so reflected rays toward us that I, time and again, tried to sustain that sight in vain. Speak out from there, what are you seeking? So he began to speak. Where's your escort? Take care lest you be harmed by climbing here. My master answered him."
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      "text": "But just before our lady came from heaven, and familiar with these things, told us, that's the gate. Go there, and may she speed you on your path of goodness. The gracious guardian of the gate began again. Come forward, therefore, to our stairs."
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      "text": "Okay, so Dante and Virgil are approaching the gates of Purgatory, and with each gate in Purgatory, there's been an angel guarding it. And this is very similar to hell, right? Where there are certain demons guarding certain passages in hell. And Virgil has to come forward and say, we've come here with a mission from heaven. And what's the difference in responses between the demons and the angels? The demons in hell and the angels here? What is the difference? Again, it's these subtle details that make divine company so imaginative, yes?"
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      "text": "The demons usually say, why have you come? But the angels say, what do you want, or what are you looking for? The demons are usually angry or just are disturbed. What's the most common response when Virgil says that we have a mission from heaven?"
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      "text": "What's the most common response from the demons? You guys remember? And again, this is what makes divine company so magical, because he pays attention to these details. They're silent, right? Okay? You don't know the response is, they're just silent. Whereas these angels are actually enthusiastic. Great! Sure, come in! Let me help you, okay? Alright, so again, there's attention to detail. Can you keep on going?"
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      "text": "There we approached, and the first step was white marble, so polished and so clear that I was mirrored there as I appear in life. The second step, made out of crumbling rough, textured, scorched with cracks that ran across its length and width, was darker than deep purple. The third, resting above more than a thousand feet, massively appeared to me to be of porphyry, as flaming red as blood that spurts from veins. And on this upper step, God's angel, seated upon the threshold, which appeared to me to be of adamant, keep his feet planted. My guide, with much goodwill, had me ascend by way of these three steps and joining me. Do ask him humbly to unbolt the gate. I threw myself devoutly at his holy feet, asking him to open out of mercy, but first, I beat three times upon my breast. He traced seven peas with his sword's point, and said, When you have entered within, take care to wash away these wounds."
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      "text": "Okay, so the seven peas, the pea stands for peccata, which is Italian for sin, okay? So, the idea is that Donner has climbed seven terraces, which are the seven deadly sins, and he has to purge himself of these seven deadly sins. He's trying to purge himself, and the angel will come and take away a pea, okay? So he's tracking his progress for purgatory, okay? Keep on going."
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      "text": "Line 115. Ashes are dry earth that has just been quarried, with cheer one color with his rope, and from beneath that rope, he drew two keys. The one was made of gold, the other was of silver, first with the white, then with the yellow key. He plied the gate so as to satisfy me. Whenever one of these keys fails, not turning appropriately in the lock, he said to us, this gate of entry does not open. One is more precious, but the other needs much art and skill before it will unlock. That is the key that must undo the knot. These I received from Peter, and he taught me rather to err in opening than in keeping this portal shut, whenever sold, pray humbly. Then he pushed back the panels of the holy gate, saying, Enter, but I warn you, he who would not he who would look back returns again outside. And when the panels"
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      "text": "of that sacred portal, which are of massive and resounding metal, turned in their hinges, then even Tarpeia, when good Metellus were removed from it, from which that rock was left impoverished, did not roar so nor show itself so stubborn. Hearing that gate resound, I turned attentive. I seemed to hear inside, in words that mingled with gentle music, Te Deum Laudamus. And what I heard gave me the very same impression one is used to getting when one hears a song accompanied by organ, and now the words are clear and now are lost."
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      "text": "Okay, so the angel is saying two things about this gate, okay? The first thing about this gate is that they're generous. They will let in more people than they actually need to. They want to give people opportunities and a chance, okay? Second thing is the moment you come in, don't look back. Go in with total faith and be resolute. The moment you lose your faith, the moment you become doubtful, then you'll be kicked out again, okay? We'll let anyone in, but once you come in, you have to be pretty harsh on yourself, okay? And those are the rules for purgatory. Which is very different from what the church teaches you at this time, which is that it's very hard to get in, but once you're in, you're good. It's the opposite, okay? So this is Purgatory 10."
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      "text": "Count to 10. When I had crossed the threshold of the gate that, since the soul's aberrant love would make the crooked way seem straight, is seldom used, I heard the gate resound, and hearing knew that it had shut. And if I had turned toward it, how could my fault have found a fit excuse? Our upward pathway ran between cracked rocks. They seemed to sway in one, then the other part, just like a wave that flees, then doubles back. Here we shall need some ingenuity, my guide warned me, as both of us draw near this side or that side where the rock wall veers. This made our steps so slow and hesitant that the declining moon had reached its bed to sink back into rest. Before we had made our way through the needle's eye, but when we were released from it in open space above a place at which the slope retreats, I was exhausted."
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      "text": "With the two of us uncertain of our way, we halted on a plateau lonier than desert paths. The distance from its edge, which forms the void, into the base of the steep slope, which climbs and climbs, would measure three times one man's body. And for as far as my sight took its flight, now to the left, now to the right -hand side, that terrace seemed to me equally wide. There we had yet to let our feet advance when I discovered that the bordering bank, less sheer than banks of other terraces, was of white marble, and adorned with carvings so accurate not only pericletous, but even nature there would feel defeated. The angel who reached earth with a decree of that peace, which for many years had been invoked with tears, the peace that opened heaven after long interdict, appeared before us, his gracious action carved with such precision. He did not seem to be a silent image."
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      "text": "One would have sworn that he was saying, Ave, for in that scene there was the effigy of one who turned the key that had unlocked the highest love. And in her stance there were impressed these words, Ecce Ancila Dei, precisely like a figure stamped in wax. Your mind must not attend to just one part, the gentle master said. He had me on the side of him where people have their heart. At this I turned my face, and saw beyond the form of Mary, on the side where stood the one who guided me, another story upon the rock. Therefore I moved past Virgil and drew close to it, so that the scene before me, my eyes, was more distinct. There carved in that same marble were the cart and oxen as they drew the sacred ark, which makes men now fear tasks not in their charge. They were shown in front, and all that group, divided into seven choirs, made two of my sons to speak."
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      "text": "One son said no, the other said yes, they do sing. Just so, about the incense smoke shown there, my nose and eyes contended too with yes and no. And there the humble psalmist went before the sacred vessel, dancing, lifting up his rope. He was both less and more than king. Facing that scene, and shown as at the window of a great palace, Michal watched, as would a woman full of scorn and suffering. To look more closely at another carving which I saw gleaming white beyond Michal, my feet moved past the point where I had stood. And there was the noble action of a Roman prince was presented, he whose worth had urged on Gregory to his great victory. I mean the emperor Trajan, and a poor widow was near his bridle, and he stood even as one in tears and sat in his wood."
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      "text": "Around him horsemen seemed to press and crowd, above their heads on golden banners eagles were represented moving in the wind. Among that crowd a miserable woman seemed to be saying, Lord, avenge me for the slaying of my son, my heart is broken. And he was answering, Wait now until I have returned. And she, as one in whom grief presses urgently, And Lord, if you do not return, and he, the one who will be in my place, will perform it for you. She, what good can others' goodness do for you if you neglect your own? He, be consoled, my duty shall be done before I go, so justice asks, so mercy makes me stay. This was the speech made visible by one within whose sight no thing is new. But we who lack its likeness here find novelty. While I took much delight in witnessing these effigies of true humility, dear to see because he was their maker."
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      "text": "The poet murmured, See the multitude advancing, though with slow steps on this side, they would direct us to the higher stairs. My eyes, which had been satisfied in seeking new sight, a thing for which they longed, did not delay in turning toward him. But I would not have you, reader, be deflected from your good resolve by hearing from me now how God would have us pay the debt we owe. Don't dwell upon the form of punishment. Consider what comes after that, at worst it cannot last beyond the final judgment. Master, I said, what I see moving toward us does not appear to me like people, but I can't tell what is there, my sight bewildered. And he to me, whatever makes them suffer their heavy torment bends them to the ground. At first I was unsure of what they were, but looking intently and let your eyes unravel what's beneath those stones, you can already see what penalty strikes each."
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      "text": "O Christians, arrogant, exhausted, wretched, whose intellects are sick and cannot see, who place your confidence in backward steps, do you not know that we are worms and born to form the angelic butterfly that soars without defenses to confront his judgment? Why does your mind presume to flight when you are still like the imperfect grub, the worm before it has attained its final form? Just as one sees a time as corbel for support of ceiling and or of roof, a figure with knees drawn up into its chest, and this oppressiveness, unreal, gives rise to real distress in him who watches it. Such was the state of those I saw when I looked hard. They were indeed bent down, some less, some more, according to the weights their backs now bore, and even he whose aspect showed more patience and tears appeared to say, I can no more. Okay,"
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      "text": "alright,"
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      "text": "so they are past the gates of purgatory, they're now inside purgatory proper, and what's the first thing that Dante sees? What's the first thing he sees? What's there awaiting him in purgatory, the first thing?"
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      "text": "Excuse me? Rocks. Rocks. Yeah."
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      "text": "Right. And what are these rocks? What's inside these rocks? Carvings, okay? This is artwork. The first thing that Dante sees when he enters purgatory is artwork. Carvings of the rock that depict scenes of humility. Okay? These are just famous scenes. And what Dante does is that he turns these scenes into basically a movie, right? A story that he plays in his head. So, what he's trying to suggest here is, if you want to really redeem yourself, if you really want to cleanse yourself, what do you need first and foremost? What enables you to redeem yourself? What allows you to absolve yourself?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Reflection."
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      "text": "Yes? Humility."
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      "text": "Examples of humility to copy."
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      "text": "You need reflection, but what drives the reflection? Art. But why? Art. Imagination. Imagination, okay? That's what Dante's saying here. If you really want to start the process, you need imagination. So what I want to do now is, let's talk about Mona Lisa. Do you guys like the Mona Lisa? Okay. Or maybe something else. Do you guys prefer the Mona Lisa or another piece of art? Huh? The Last Supper? Okay, let's do both. Okay? Let's do both the Mona Lisa and Last Supper, okay? Alright, so now what I want to do is this. What Dante is suggesting is like the act of looking at art, okay? The act of interacting with art betters you as a person, okay? I want to figure out why. Alright, so you have the artwork, the painting, and it could be Mona Lisa or the Last Supper. Let's just do Last Supper. Yeah, let's just do Last Supper, okay? Alright. And I want to figure out why this is the case."
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      "text": "Why when you look at art, it changes you for the better. And it enhances your imagination. Okay? Let's try to figure this out. You go to the Louvre. Where's the Last Supper? The Last Supper is in... You've seen it, right? Right? So let's say you're there, right? And you have the room to yourself. And you're sitting down for a whole afternoon and you're looking at the Last Supper by yourself, okay? And what Donnie's saying is that when you do that, it changes you as a person. And you become a more virtuous person. I'm trying to figure out why that's the case. Alright? Has anyone actually done that? Has anyone just sat down in front of a painting for a whole afternoon and just looked at it? Okay? Well, tell me what's going on. Let's just list them. What is your mind doing as you're looking at the painting?"
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      "text": "Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Well, yeah, I used to try to keep looking down at that kind of painting and I don't know. I just feel so strange. I was just in the painting. I was in the painting. I was in the Jesus position or even try to imagine myself. If I were in the painting, I was standing on a table. What should I think?"
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      "text": "So you participated in it, yes."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Okay, what else? Well, first I would try to figure out who the people are in the painting first, like so their background. Yeah, like just knowledge about them so I can better understand them and where they come from. Okay, so what you're trying to do is you're trying to fill in the story, right?"
    },
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      "text": "Does that make sense? There's a story inside the painting you're trying to fill it in. You're trying to figure out who they are, what they're doing. Okay? Yes?"
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      "text": "I try and put myself in the shoes of the artist and ask why has he put a certain detail in the painting?"
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      "text": "Okay, right, so analysis. You do analysis, technical analysis, yes? Sure, right? So you're switching perspectives, okay? Sure. What else? Yes? Good, yes, okay? You're trying to connect it to yourself. Connection. Good, yes, excellent. Yes?"
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      "text": "You start looking at the colors and you see the picture as a whole, but you also start focusing on the details."
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      "text": "Yes, okay, right, okay. So you're trying to focus on the details. Details focus. Yes. And why would you do that?"
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      "text": "Because you already see the whole picture so you want to see what each part of the picture is like."
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      "text": "Okay, right, so you're basically trying to world -build, okay? World -build. Okay, anyone else? Yes?"
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      "text": "I will try to understand what the artist tried to convey"
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      "text": "Okay, okay, the story, okay, the message. Yes? Anyone else?"
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      "text": "Yes? I usually try to dissolve myself, a kind of disassociation in order to assimilate within the painting, trying to forget yourself, trying to forget yourself, and it's like how do you get moved by a painting where you have to disassociate into the painting?"
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      "text": "Okay, that's a really interesting comment, okay? But I want you to break it down for us and try to literally explain what's going on."
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      "text": "So it's like constantly trying to ebb and flow between doing what being the viewer and being the artist, being the subject and being the physical object, and you're just trying to play back and forth between who am I and what is the painting and trying to bring them together."
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      "text": "Right, okay, so it's a dialogue, right? A dialogue assimilation, okay, yeah. Simulation, right? Would it be fair to say that when you do this you're also moving beyond time and space? Okay, so you're moving outside of time and space which creates unity, okay? Does that make sense, guys? Time and space create separation, but once you move out of time and space, it creates unity. Alright, thank you. Yes?"
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      "text": "I like looking at portraits of people, so at Oxford, all our dining halls will have like all the famous alumni hanging or like and then they will be looking down on you as you're eating, and then you feel like you have this connection with them. They used to sit at these halls and tables and eat under the same candle light, and then you wonder if they are still somehow alive in heaven looking down on you and expecting you to do some great things as well, so that one day your pictures will be hanging up here."
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      "text": "That's a really good comment, but try to explain how this connection works. There's a connection, you're at Oxford, and all these great people, these portraits are all around you, and it looks, it seems as though they're staring at you from heaven. Explain how that could happen."
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      "text": "Because the pictures were positioned so high up on the ceilings, and then literally they're like looking down on you while you look up at them while you're eating, and like it feels like there's this eternal capsule of their souls in essence somewhere left in the painting, or their memories of this hall resonates with you."
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      "text": "Okay. Right, okay, so like awe and wonder, resonance, sure. Resonance. Okay. Um, so Benjamin Franklin, oh sorry, not Benjamin Franklin, Walter Benjamin, would have a phrase for it, he calls it aura. Okay? And his argument is this, okay, it's a very strange argument, okay, but like, like obviously we can't know with this, right? But in the real Last Supper, in the church in Florence, is it Florence? So you're sitting there, okay? Whenever you're sitting there, that painting is setting up your energy, right? So it has its own aura. It's alive. Okay? Right? And so, and that aura then becomes reflected in you as well, right? And so that's what Walter Benjamin would say. Every artwork has its own aura, meaning its own personality, developed over hundreds of years of audience participation. Okay? Any other, come on, you guys have all looked at artwork, right?"
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      "text": "Yes? I guess just looking at the lines we just read, about resolving paradoxes, but also using your imagination to give life to the painting, because like the first carving he says, two senses were inside me, one sense said, no, they're not seen, like that's the realistic material, Dante, and the other sense, yes, they do sing. So I guess it's giving yourself over to the reality of the painting."
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      "text": "I don't know what to call that process. Well, I would say it's co -creation, right? Because the artist has created a reality with your imagination, you are making this reality much more vibrant, and you're changing the dynamic of this reality. So it's a co -creation process. Right? Yes? Sorry, sorry, yeah."
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      "text": "So this is before pictures or cell phones or anything like this, so you're capturing a moment of time, and there's like a duality going on here of like declaring yourself into the universe, or even narcissism, however you want to call that, but then also putting yourself out there to empathize and be empathized with. Right, okay."
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      "text": "So it's almost like a form of meditation, right? A meditation that creates a sort of mystical experience, mystical connection. Does that make sense, guys? Right?"
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      "text": "When you look at a painting, yes? So when I went to Florence and to one of the museums there, I went with a friend and I just thought, when I started looking at the paintings, I, we just started to like debate about the paintings. We've looked from different perspectives what the artist was trying to convey. And we like, we really went deep and we kind of that's really how I started to understand the picture more through debates, through listening to someone else's perspective as well."
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      "text": "Yeah, but what's interesting is what the painting has done is enhance your individuality. And so when you're engaging in debate, you're expressing your individuality. Right? But the main point is first of all, your individuality was activated. Right? And that's why everyone who looks at a painting is going to have a different interpretation because we're all unique individuals. Okay? So it really activates your individuality. Good. Okay, anyone else? Yes?"
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      "text": "I think this is why the Catholic Church will always have the stained glass window with a lot of stories and the whole point is that most of the time you are illiterate coming into the church and then all you can do is look at pictures and then the pictures can kind of wash away the sin in a way. Right? Like art kind of purifies you. Plus it makes you bow in humility towards the beauty of God. Like the minute you enter this hall of pictures and light shining through the window shining on you does make you feel elevated in the sense of you know you go without the organ you can feel the organ. So it's a very spiritual experience. Right."
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      "text": "Can we go to the Mona Lisa please? Who's actually seen the Mona Lisa? In real life. Alright. Okay. What is unique about the Mona Lisa? Only the Mona Lisa does this. Can you tell us?"
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      "text": "Probably talking about the fact that wherever you are in the room she looks at you."
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      "text": "It's really weird. Do you guys like experience it? Yeah. When you walk around her eyes follow you. They track you. It's really weird. Right?"
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      "text": "You really feel it because like wherever you are in the room the aura is here. And you can just like turn your back and then look back she's still here. You can't move away from the energy of this. It's really weird."
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      "text": "I've never been but like you know I've read stories."
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      "text": "Yes? Not just that but there's a song by Nat King Cole the singer. He sings a song called the Mona Lisa. Yes. Where he says is your smile to tempt a lover or is it just another work of art you're putting on your face so when you're in front of her it's very about co -creation because it's your inner feeling in that moment defines what you read her smile as because it's such an elusive smile and it's amazing standing in front of it because sometimes she's upset with you. Sometimes she's like Beatrice like saying come on you need to rise up and then sometimes she's saying wow it's okay you're a human being. Right."
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      "text": "It's like she's alive. Right. Sorry. Did you, your experience with the Mona Lisa. Can you talk about it?"
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      "text": "It's really you know really hard to actually look carefully at the Mona Lisa because there are so many people just you know standing in front of you."
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      "text": "I understand that yes."
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      "text": "And I feel the energy. Yeah I feel the energy but"
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      "text": "But you felt the energy right?"
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      "text": "Yeah I feel the energy."
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      "text": "Yeah that's the aura. Yes?"
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      "text": "I guess I wanted to expand on these ideas then would art would art show you what is possible and therefore expand your imagination. Yes that's right."
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      "text": "That's right. You're forced to expand your imagination. In order to have all these feelings. Right? And the more feelings you have the more your imagination expands. Yes exactly. Any other? Yes?"
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      "text": "Yeah because I've heard that Mona Lisa's hands is not the woman's hands. It must be baby's infant's hands and the face is like a man is not a woman. So maybe it's Darfancy who just tried to portray himself. So and even the bone. I think it's kind of combination between the baby between a woman between a man. So it's kind of carnation or. Okay."
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      "text": "Yes? Just to add on to that about art. It's actually one of the reasons why me and my husband converted from Protestantism to Catholicism because in Protestant religion like you can only have the cross which is a symbol for Christ. There's no art. Very little music. Well there is Hillsong but that's it. So there was no mystical stuff. No incense. No. But Catholic church is like man full on. You know. Like art, music, incense. All this very materialistic almost you know like down to earth things that really incites like kind of all your senses to feel God. And then with Protestantism it's all abstract ideas, symbols, theories, concepts that's very soul or spirit. But Catholicism it's very bodily. It's very female -ly. It's very woman -ly. It's very art -ly or musical. And that kind of has a connection to your soul or your body like in a way your senses awakes your soul or spirit to feel closer to God."
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      "text": "So this concreteness."
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      "text": "Great. Okay. So we've established what art is and what the impact of art is on you. But now we want to figure out why the imagination, expanding the imagination would necessarily make you a more virtuous person. Right? That doesn't actually connect. Okay. We know art expands your imagination but why would that make you a much more virtuous person ready for catharsis, ready for purgatory? Why would the first step to self -salvation or redemption be art? Why?"
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      "text": "Yes? Can it create consciousness about your emotions? Because like when you see art then you feel something and then you think about it why am I feeling this?"
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      "text": "Yeah. Okay. So let's go over this. One is the emotions. Okay. The entire point of art really okay is to like shock your emotions to the forefront. Right? So your emotions are now like alive and you actually feel them much more closely. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else? So that's the first one. Okay. Art will shock you and then your emotions come to the forefront. Right? Then what happens?"
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      "text": "Yes? Well to add to that point it strengthens your empathy for especially the artist obviously who tries to express his own emotions and then you can start to emphasize with his emotions and then that's how you expand your imagination because you can put yourself into his shoes and feel as though you are him. Yeah. Exactly. Okay."
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      "text": "So imagine this. Okay. Your emotions are being shocked. Right? They're in jolt. They're in motion now and what the artwork does is refocus your emotions in order to empathize with the painting. Right? So it's reordering your emotional state. Okay. Does that make sense? Alright. And obviously it makes you more virtuous. But why?"
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      "text": "Yes? I guess my first practical answer would be you realize that acting virtuously is what creates a universe where imagination can flourish and come into being. So the virtues are designed so agents in a universe act so that everybody can imagine more and there can be more in the universe."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. That's true. But I want to go into the technical details of how this happens. What you say is abstractly true but I want to know how concretely it happens. Yes?"
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      "text": "A word that comes to mind is dissociation and then the ability to put your center away from yourself and I guess it comes back to empathizing with the artist's emotions empathizing with the technique that he uses, the process, his story, everything. Being able to think outside of yourself."
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      "text": "Okay. Yes? Love with the artist and you become thankful to him for creating this. Sure. But I'm saying what does that? It's like love. So basically there's a relation between you and the art and so you and the artist and then thanks to this you become thankful to this. Yes. That's the end."
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      "text": "First of all, your emotions are forced into motion. Then your emotions become more focused on the artwork and then there's a step and then at the end you have a sense of gratitude to the artist. You have a sense of connection to the artist. But what's the missing step? What focuses your emotions? Self -reflection. What is art?"
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      "text": "It forces you away from the material and you think about more abstract."
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      "text": "You guys are thinking too hard about this. What is art? Why do we watch art?"
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      "text": "Yes? I guess fundamentally it's proof that other minds exist. It's against solipsism."
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      "text": "What draws you to the art? Beautiful. It's beautiful. It's beauty, do you understand? You see how this works? The beauty shocks your emotions. It's like seeing a beautiful woman on the street. You're like, oh my god I need to meet her. Your emotions are shocked into place. The beauty then focuses these emotions and then orders the emotions into something that is virtuous. But why would beauty be virtuous?"
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      "text": "What's the relation between beauty and virtue, yes? Because on the surface of beauty and after the surface of beauty and in the depths of artwork is love. So eventually the greatest artwork eventually has to be the most associative and the most associative power I think is love."
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      "text": "Yes, that's right. Beauty will lead you to love. But what is it about beauty that allows you to love, yes?"
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      "text": "I think because beauty as a construct has formulas in a way, like we talk about geometry, numerology, and all these essence, just the same way you see math and science reflect the beauty of the design or whatever divinity reflects in it. And so the moment you see beauty it kind of makes you think about the smart designer who has designed these things."
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      "text": "Yes, okay, yes? Maybe because of curving, because you can see women, they've got curving waves, they've got shape, basically like up and down."
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      "text": "So there are a number of principles to beauty, right? There's symmetry, there's the pi principle, right? Yes?"
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      "text": "Yes, so I'm a member of the Cormac McCarthy Society and he has this line beauty and truth are one. Yes, that's right. Exactly. The key is the word you just said, symmetry. In all great art that's symmetrical when you see a beautiful man or woman there's symmetry in their face. How this correlates to truth is, we don't just say I'm wearing a gray shirt, that's not truth, that's just a fact. If I say the Vietnam War started because of XYZ, that's not the truth because I need to know what happened right before it and what happened right before that and what happened on the moon and what happened a thousand years before. And the reason that we can't get to truth or no journalist can get to truth is because you can't write everything. But there was is one entity that can write everything and know all and that's God. Yes."
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      "text": "And so beauty and truth are one. Exactly, okay?"
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      "text": "So you guys see how this works, right? The beauty, there's a mathematical principles behind the beauty including symmetry all that and that takes you into the mind of God. The very center of God. And then that becomes truth and that's what allows you to love. You understand? Okay? So great artwork gives you access into the very mind of God allows you to connect with the universe and that's what makes you virtuous. Okay? It activates the love inside of you. Alright?"
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      "text": "Is that not a very platonic view? Like Plato really thought about mathematics and its connection to God. Yes. But he still, but what I don't understand is that he still denied art as a form of God or like an expression of God. Right? Okay."
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      "text": "That's a really good question. Okay? So it is true that for Plato mathematics is the mind of God. It's also true that if Plato were to see the Mona Lisa he'd be horrified. Why would he be horrified? Do you guys know why? Yes?"
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      "text": "Because it's just a falsity. It's like just an illusion. It's a shadow. It's being praised as form"
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      "text": "Right. It's a shadow. And so for Plato, what to really access the mind of God is you have to avoid the beauty and just focus on mathematics. You understand? For him, it's not beauty gives you access to mathematics it's beauty distracts you from the mathematics to just focus on the mathematics. Okay? Don't look at the painting just look at the mathematics behind the painting and that's what gives you access to God. But Plato's wrong. Okay? Just because he's Plato doesn't mean he's right all the time. Does that make sense? Okay. Yes?"
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      "text": "Do you personally think maybe that's why some mathematicians go crazy? They're getting I agree. Yeah. Can you explain that? They're getting too close to God? Or..."
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      "text": "No, I think it's because they're too far away from God. Yeah, I think it's because they create the one reality and they've lost connection to the real. And that's why, you know, like the best mathematicians, they do their best math at maybe around 20 to 30 that age group, and then afterwards they go insane. Okay? And it's no different from, I would say computer programmers, if that makes any sense. Like, once you create your own reality and you try to inhabit this reality and you lose your connection to the divine through beauty and through truth and through love, you're gonna go crazy. Okay? And yes?"
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      "text": "But how does that looking at the painting make people a more virtuous person? Okay."
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      "text": "So the process is this, okay? The beauty of the painting draws you. It compels you to look at it forever. Okay? You lose a sense of time and space. You just focus on it. You become one with the painting. In this process, what happens is your emotions become jolted. They become out of place. Okay? What it basically means is that your worldview is evolving. And through this process, then your emotions become rearranged in a new worldview that focuses on the painting. Okay? And the painting, once you look more at it, you access truth. Why? Because beauty and truth are one if it's God. Right? So you're giving access into the mind of God. And then that, because you know like, God is love, that forces your emotions to be rearranged in a way that allows for more love, which is more virtue. Does that make sense? Okay."
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      "text": "Yes? I have a question just on about what you personally feel. So there's a fractal called the Mandelbrot set. Okay. Which maybe it'd be good if we saw a picture of it. Sure. Let's sign up. And it's basically a small, very short formula, which lists points to do with primes and and you'll see it. I've been obsessed with these and they move me so much from when I was a very, very small child that you can zoom in with infinite complexity. Do you think this is more beautiful than any human art? Because it's literally the art contained within mathematics."
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      "text": "Yes?"
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      "text": "At Peking University and when he saw these images, he's also a computer programmer. He got the Olympics into computer programming. But he said that it is what that moves him to God as a middle schooler. Because the minute he saw the signs and the design and the numerology, the symmetry, the golden ratio, and all of these, is that you cannot study science without knowing logos. Without understanding all these designs. So that's how he moved from atheism to religion."
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      "text": "But let me ask you this question. Would you rather spend like 10 years looking at the Mona Lisa or 10 years looking at the Mandelbrot set?"
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      "text": "You can zoom in the Mandelbrot set forever and it's never the same. You can zoom in and it changes forever and ever and ever and ever."
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      "text": "But what do you feel emotionally when you look at the Mandelbrot set? Not like a human being."
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      "text": "What do you mean by that? When I want to feel like a human being, the Mona Lisa and things, they really do it for me. But then there's some kind of transcendental feeling when your individuality leaves you and you're just trying to be with the mind of God or whatever you think that is. Right. I understand."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And if you do it for a long, long time, that might be problematic. Yeah, I think definitely"
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      "text": "10 years Mona Lisa is better. She's a bit of company."
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      "text": "I would think so, yes. I would think so. Alright. Good. Let's continue, guys. Alright. Let's go to count to 11. So we are now in the first terrace which is to purge you of pride. So you have to learn humility in this terrace. Let's read, okay?"
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      "text": "Our Father, you who dwell within the heavens but are not circumscribed by them out of your greater love for your first works above, praise be your name and your omnipotence by every creature just as it is seemly to offer thanks to your sweet affluence. Your kingdom's peace come unto us for if it does not come, then though we summon all our force, we cannot reach it of ourselves. Just as your angels as they sing Hosanna offer their wills to you a sacrifice, so may men offer up their wills to you. Give unto us this day the daily manna without which he who labors most to move ahead through this harsh wilderness holds back. Even as we forgive all who have done us injury, may you, Benevolent, forgive and do not judge us by our worth. Try not our strength so easily subdued against the ancient foe but set it free from him who goads it to perversity."
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      "text": "This last request we now address to you, dear Lord, not for ourselves who have no need but for the ones who we have left behind. Beseeching thus good penitence for us and for themselves, though shape moved on beneath their weights like those we sometimes bear in dreams, each in his own degree of suffering, but all exhausted, circling the first terrace, purging themselves of this world's scoriae."
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      "text": "Okay, so again, these are people with pride and so they're given weights and they have to move very slowly on this terrace and they they're being burdened by these weights and this is meant to relieve them of their pride and then they will have learned humility. How is this different from hell? What's the difference? Yes. Okay. I don't understand. If you were in hell, it'd be the same thing."
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      "text": "Right? Well they, but they want to do it. Like they know why they do it. They understand what they do. It's the people in hell who are punished. I don't think they're like, I mean they know they're guilty, but they don't think that it's fair that they're being punished."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Anyone else?"
    },
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      "text": "They are receiving this punishment in the hope that one day they will reach paradise and then they know that they did something wrong and they're kind of like punishing themselves physically, but then they still have hope that one day they'll make it into like upper tiers or like make it to heaven. Yes."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. Exactly. But I don't understand why the people in hell can't be like, you know what? You just do this for 10,000 years and then we'll send you to purgatory. It's always like no, in hell it's for all of eternity. What, what's the logic of this?"
    },
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      "text": "Maybe unlike those in hell, they did not do deeds that puncture the fabric of society. And so discord or create societal ills that they would not be doing this forever? Yeah, we don't know that, right?"
    },
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      "text": "Because the condition for being in purgatory is that one, you repent and second is that people pray for you. Right? It doesn't say there are certain crimes that prevent you from going to purgatory. So again, this is a question for us where it seems as though the punishment is the same, so if they're doing the same punishment, could you have a system where in hell, if you do this for 10,000 years, you're given access to purgatory? Why not do that? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "Because even the promise of 10,000 years would not give you a growth mindset. So I think in this scene, they're just singing themselves into the growth mindset. So the actuality of what they're doing is purifying them. And so that if you're in hell, even if you knew that by doing this for 10,000 years, you might make it out, it wouldn't give you the growth mindset that would actually render you above hell. Yeah, but why?"
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      "text": "I'm asking you why, right?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Why? Because you have to do it every second with no thought of the end. You can't do it as if there's a finish line. You have to just do it as if you're doing it forever. And the mindset that you have in every second is what counts. Okay,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "so this is actually a really important question if you really understand Dante. Why are people in hell, and why are people in puritory? What's the difference? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So I'm seeing this as like an Aristotelian golden mean. And so the example I have, even though bravery is not something that'll get you into heaven, is the two extremes that Aristotle would see would be cowardice, but then also recklessness. Yes. And those would get you in this fictional hell. But there's a spectrum. And so the closer you get to bravery on either end of the extremes, then you're going to end up at a point which, I don't know why, you would end up, God would say, that's good enough that you get into puritory."
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      "text": "Yes, okay. Dante has read a lot of Aristotle, and he would definitely agree on this idea. But that still doesn't clarify for me why if it's the same punishment, right, why what's the difference between heaven, what's the difference between hell and puritory?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes? Maybe people in hell, they just by reason. But in puritory, people, they don't just always by reason. They just by inspiration or what? Or hope or what?"
    },
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      "text": "Okay, this is like hard, okay, but what Dante suggests, I know Dante believes this, okay, is that people are in hell because they choose to be there. People are in puritory because they choose to be there. It's a law of free will. Okay? Doesn't make sense to you guys. That's where the growth mindset comes from. Because you believe you can be better, but if you, like, I don't believe I can be better, then I'm just better off in hell. Right? Okay? Why are people in puritory doing this thing? Because they think that by doing this thing, I can be better. But in hell, you make them do this. Well, I'll keep on doing this, but it's not going to change me. It's just my punishment, right? So it's perception where people in hell see it as their punishment, but people in puritory see it as their opportunity. Doesn't make sense. That's the difference. It's attitude."
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      "start": 15248.68,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And that's the fundamental understanding of Dante and how he sees the world. Okay? Let's keep on going."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Line 16, even as we forgive all who have done us injury, may you benevolent forgive and do not judge us by our worth. Try, oh, sorry. Line 25, beseeching thus good penitence for us and for themselves, those shades moved on beneath their weight like those we sometimes bear in dreams. Each in his own degree of suffering, but all exhausted, circling the first terrace, purging themselves of this world's scoriae. If there they pray on our behalf, what can be said and done here on this earth for them by those whose wills are rooted in true worth? Indeed, we should help them to wash away the stains they carried from this world so that, may pure in light, they reach the starry wheels. Ah, so may justice and compassion soon burden you so that your wings may move as you desire them to and uplift you. Show us on which hand lies the shortest path to reach the stairs if there is more than one passage."
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      "text": "Then show us that which is less steep, for he who comes with me because he wears the weight of Adam's flesh as dress, despite his ready will, is slow in his ascent. These words which had been spoken by my guide were answered by still other words we heard, for though it was not clear who had replied, an answer came. Come with us to the right along the wall of rock, and you will find a pass where even one alive can climb. And were I not impeded by the stone that since it has subdued my haughty neck compels my eyes to look below, then I should look at this man who is still alive and nameless to see if I recognize him and to move his pity for my burden. I was Italian, son of a great Tuscan. My father was Guglielmo Albobrandesco. I do not know if you have heard his name."
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      "text": "The ancient blood and splendid deeds of my forefathers made me so presumptuous that without thinking on our common mother, I scorned all men past measure, and that scorn brought me my death. The Sienese know how, as does each child in compagnia I am Umberto, and my arrogance has not harmed me alone, for it has drawn all of my kin into calamity. Until God has been satisfied, I bear this burden here among the dead, because I did not bear this load among the living. My face was lowered as I listened, and one of those souls not he had spoken twisted himself beneath the weight that burdened them. He saw and knew me and called out to me, fixing his eyes on me laboriously as I, completely hunched, walked on with them. Oh, I cried out, are you not Odorici? Glory of Gubbio, glory of that art they call illumination now in Paris."
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      "text": "Brother, he said, the pages painted by the brush of Franco Bolognese smile more brightly. All the glory now is his, mine but apart. In truth, I would have been less gracious when I lived so great was that desire for eminence which drove my heart. For such pride, here one pays the penalty, and I not be here yet, had it not been that, while I still could sin, I turned to him. Oh, empty glory of the powers of humans, how briefly green endures upon the peak, unless an age of dullness follows it. In painting Simabue, Chimabue thought he held the field, and now its Giotto they acclaim. The former only keeps a shadowed fame. So did one Guido, from the other rests the glory of our tongue, and he perhaps is born who will chase both out of the nest. Worldly renown is nothing other than a breath of wind that blows now here, now there, and changes name when it has changed its course."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Before a thousand years have passed, a span that for eternity is less space than an eye blink for the slowest sphere in heaven, would you find greater glory if you left your flesh when it was old, than if your death had come before your infant words were spent? All Tuscany acclaimed his name, the man who moved so slowly on the path before me, and now they scarcely whisper of him even in Siena. Where he lorded it when they destroyed the raging mob in Florence, then as arrogant as now its prostitute. Your glory wears the color of the grass that comes and goes, the sun makes it wither, first drew it from the ground, still green and tender, and I to him your truthful speech has filled my soul with sound humility, abating my over -swollen pride. But who is he of whom you spoke now?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "Provenza and Salvani, he answered. Here, because presumptuously he thought his grip could master all Siena, so he has gone, and so he goes, with no rest since his death. This is the penalty extracted from those who there overreached. And I, but if a spirit who awaits the edge of life before repenting must, unless good prayers help him stay below and not ascend here for as long a time as he had spent alive, do tell me how Salvani's entry here has been allowed. When he was living in his greatest glory, then of his own free will he set aside all shame, and took his place upon the campo of Siena. There, to free his friend from suffering in Charles' prison, humbling himself, he trembled in each vein. I say no more. I know I speak obscurely, but soon enough you will find your neighbor's acts are such that what I say can be explained. This"
    },
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      "text": "deed delivered him from those confined."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Macbeth's Deed And Dante's Hope",
      "source_title": "Dante #10: Purgatory Cantos 5-14",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so here we meet a man who did a lot of wrong. Okay, but once he did some good. Okay, once he helped his friend escape a prison. And he begged his neighbors to help him free his friend. Okay, so the idea here is, look, you can spend your, you could live a life of complete sin. Okay, but the moment you choose to do one good act, it will be remembered and it will redeem you. Does that make sense? Okay, so this is extremely radical of Dante to say, look, for a hundred years you could have lived a terrible life, but if you just commit yourself to doing one good thing before you die, that's going to redeem you in the eyes of God. So, there is always hope and salvation, no matter who you are, no matter what you've done. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So when you asked that question prior to the reading of like, what makes the same thing, what makes the same sin differentiate from hell and purgatory, the Catholic Church would say, repent at your death. And are you saying that Dante says that works are what can get you into purgatory and not just it seems like I could sin, sin, sin, sin, and then sincerely repent at my death and make it into purgatory would be the Catholic Church's interpretation."
    },
    {
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      "start": 15680.31,
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      "time_label": "4:21:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Right, the formula isn't that simple. There are lots of conditions, okay? But the way to understand this is, the conditions to get into purgatory are a lot more flexible than the conditions to get into hell, if that makes sense, right? If you do something really, really bad, like murder your guest, that condemns you to hell automatically. But the criteria, conditions for purgatory are much more wide, much more flexible than people imagine. So it's possible you repent, it's possible you were murdered accidentally, you were murdered and you didn't have time to repent, it's possible that you did one good work and that helped a lot of people. Okay, so do you understand, there's a lot of different things you can do to get into purgatory and the reason why is once you're in purgatory you have to show total commitment. Okay? Alright, so as the angel says, it's easy to get in but once you're in, you have to work really, really hard."
    },
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      "text": "Okay, if you want to commit yourself to working hard for eternity then you come in, okay? Because the thing about purgatory that's very upsetting for a lot of people is it's a really long time. Right? It could be 10,000 years, it could be 10 million years. Okay? And some people are like, screw that, I'll spend my time in hell. It sounds a lot easier. Right? Okay? Alright, let's go to Council 12. Council 12."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Ex -oxen yoked proceed abreast, so I moved with a burdened soul as long as my kind pedagogue allowed me to. But when he said leave him behind and go ahead for here it's fitting that with wings and oars each urge his boat along with all his force. I drew my body up again erect, the stance most suitable to man, and yet the thoughts I thought were still submissive bent."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so during the his time in the Terrace of Humility, he lowered himself to develop humility, okay? Does that make sense? Because remember, before he came here he became really famous because of his shadow, and he was proud and to redeem himself he held himself low, okay? Alright, keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 15832.83,
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      "text": "Line 10. Now I was on my way, and willingly I followed in my teacher's steps, and we together showed what speed we could command. He said to me, look downward, for the way will offer you some solace if you pay attention to the pavement at your feet. As on the lids of pavement tombs there are stone effigies of what the buried were before, so that the dead may be remembered. And the there, when memory, inciting only the pious, has renewed their mourning, men are often led to shed their tears again. So did I see, but carved more skillfully with greater sense of likeness, effigies on all the path protruding from the mountain. I saw to one side of the path one who had been created nobler than all other beings, falling lightning like from heaven. I saw upon the other side, transphixed by the celestial shaft. He lay ponderous on the cold, in fatal cold."
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      "time_label": "4:24:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I saw them, Breas, I saw Mars and Pallas, still armed as they surrounded Joe, their father, gazing upon the giant's scattered limbs. I saw bewildered Nimrod at the foot of his labor, great labor, watching him where those of Shiner who had shared his arrogance. O Niobe, what tears afflicted me when on that path I saw your effigy among your slaughtered children seven and seven. O Saul, you were portrayed there as one who had died on his own sword, upon Gilboa, which never after knew the rain, the dew. O mad Arachne, I saw you already half -spider, wretched on the ragged remnants of work that you had wrought to your own hurt. O Rehoboam, you whose effigy seems not to menace there, and yet you flee by chariot, terrified, though none pursues. It also showed that pavement of hard stone, how much Elkhmeon made his mother pay, the cost of the ill -omened ornament. It showed"
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      "text": "the children of Cherub, as they assailed their father in the temple, then left him dead behind them as they fled. It showed the slaughter and the devastation wrought by Tamaris when she taunted Cyrus. You thirsted after blood. With blood I fill you. It showed the rout of the Assyrians, sent reeling after Holofernes' death. It also showed his body what was left. I saw Troy turned to caverns and to ashes. O Ilium, your effigy in stone. It showed you there so squalid, so cast down. What master of the brush or of the stylus had there portrayed such masses, such outlines as would astonish all discerning minds? The dead seemed dead, and the alive alive. I saw head bent, treading those effigies as long as well as those who'd seen those scenes directly. Now, sons of Eve, persist in arrogance. In haughty stands do you let your eyes bend, lest you be forced to see your evil path."
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      "text": "We now had circled more of the mountain and much more of the sun's course had been crossed than I, my mind absorbed, had gauged. When he who always looked ahead insistently as he advanced began. Lift up your eyes. It's time to set these images aside. See there an angel hurrying to meet us, and also see the sixth of the handmaidens returning from her service to the day. Adorn your face and ask with reverence that he be pleased to send us higher. Remember, today we'll never know another dawn."
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      "text": "So they pass through the terrace of prides to learn humility. Now they have entered new terrace and of course there's more artwork. And what is Dande's emotional reaction to this artwork? What's he doing? When he sees this artwork, what is his response?"
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      "text": "He seems quite shocked and sad. What's he doing literally? Remembering and like imagining. What's the word?"
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      "text": "What is his action? He's sad. What is his action? What does the text say? What's he literally doing right now? As he's watching this artwork?"
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      "start": 16089.33,
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      "time_label": "4:28:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Looking down. Looking at his feet."
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      "text": "No. What is he literally doing right now? What is he doing right now as he's watching this artwork? As he's watching this, as he's looking at this artwork, how is he feeling? What is he doing? Yes? I'd say grieving. He's crying. Yeah. Right? It literally says he's crying. Okay? So now I want to talk about tragedy. Okay? Because like things he saw, this artwork, they are tragic. There's tragedy in everything that he's seen. Right? So I want to discuss tragedy and why, what crying does. Okay? Now think of a movie you've seen that made you cry. Think about a theater that made you cry. Think about an artwork that made you cry. A song that made you cry. Okay? But just think of something that made you cry. Alright? What does crying do? Yeah, it's catharsis, right? Okay? Catharsis. Does everyone know what catharsis means? What is catharsis?"
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      "text": "Purifying to release. Releasing your tears."
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      "text": "Yeah. It's purging. You understand? Catharsis literally means purging. Basically, throw up and release your emotions. Okay? That's what crying is. You're purging yourself. Okay? So why would that be Why would that be Why would that lead to virtue?"
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      "text": "Yes? I guess you can start to feel all over your body the pain of other people who have also felt tragedy."
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      "text": "Because what leads to the crying is the empathy, right? That is what leads to the crying because you see the pain in others. Right? If you didn't see the pain in others you would be laughing like ha ha ha ha. You got his head chopped off. Okay? Empathy that allows you to cry. Okay? And so why do you have empathy? Where does the empathy come from?"
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      "text": "I think imagination and emulation from evolution, I think. So it starts with imagining the position of another person or a situation and then trying to feel that within yourself. But a lot of the time it's too complicated for you to feel. So you just try and feel the sadness that you can see in another person. And it's to comfort people by showing that you understand and that their pain is enough to move you beyond your normal state."
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      "text": "So are you saying that it is a adaptation of evolution? Yes. Okay. Then where is empathy located in our brains then?"
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      "text": "I think there are certain regions that activate in a mother's brain when her baby is crying. And I think that crying is like..."
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      "text": "Has anyone studied psychology? Where... How do our brains actually achieve empathy? Do you guys know? Or we can call it cortex. Okay, let's Google it."
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      "text": "The term is mirror neurons."
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      "text": "Yeah, let's Google mirror neurons. I want to see if this is actually true, okay? Are mirror neurons responsible for empathy? Are they responsible for empathy?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes. I had sometimes problems growing up and I knew people that had problems like when sometimes I see people crying, I would laugh because I didn't know how to properly emulate it. There's an interview with Messi where the interview is so overwrought with emotion at interviewing him because it's his live stream and Messi just starts laughing."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. Right. Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So there's a psychological experiment where they take a two -year -old and they put like a, I don't know, a ball in a drawer and then the parent comes in and the parent doesn't know that the ball is in the drawer or something like this. I'm screwing this up but the way that this works is like if you're under two years old, then you can empathize, oh my parent doesn't have that information that the ball is in the drawer. And if you're over two years old, then you can say oh my parent doesn't know I need to inform them. And so two years old is when we get empathy according to psychologists."
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      "text": "Okay, so two years old is when we develop the mirror neurons, right? Okay. Alright. I'm not convinced mirror neurons actually exist. It's a theory, but do we have any concrete evidence that it actually exists? What does Google say? Do mirror neurons actually exist? It's a theory, okay? We don't even know how this works."
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      "text": "Yes? I am totally on your side. I believe that empathy is beyond one mind and it's definitely a divine emotion."
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      "text": "Right, right. And so what would Donnie say? What is empathy? But how do we connect to God? Imagination. Connect to"
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      "text": "God by connecting to others among you, your peers, their pain."
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      "text": "But what does that?"
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      "text": "Love, compassion for another person. Okay."
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      "text": "So the idea is there's a spark, right? And so empathy, how it works is the two sparks connect together. Doesn't make sense. Okay? So that's why you cry. Because when you see another spark in pain, your spark also feels pain and you cry. Okay? So why would that lead to virtue? Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Because if you can connect to another person's pain and sorrow, then it makes you not want to commit that same sin that could inflict pain on other people. So you want to be a better person so that you don't cause this kind of suffering in the world."
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    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "That's right. That's right. That's right. So that's the idea here. Where if you where a tragedy is watched by a group of people and the fact that they cry together connects them together and that builds community. Okay? Alright. Okay. So let's keep on going. But you can see how complex divine comedy is, right? Because it's a treatise on everything. Philosophy, religion, art. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "Yeah, it also kind of makes me think about Lazarus' death when Jesus went and cried at his funeral. It's like, oh, if you could have told me, you know, I would have come earlier. But Jesus cried a lot at the funeral, even though ten minutes later he resurrected Lazarus anyways. So people are like, well, what the heck with the crying if you could just resurrect him? You know? Are you pretending? Is this theater, you know? But Jesus kind of explains that he needs to sympathize with Mary and Madeleine on the loss of Lazarus, even though he's going to resurrect him ten minutes later."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yes, because it's a human reaction, right? Yeah. It's something you can control. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yes. Let's keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "Line 85. I was so used to his insistent warnings against the loss of time concerning that his words to me could hardly be obscured. That handsome creature came toward us. His clothes were white, and in his aspect he seemed like the trembling star that rises in the morning. He opened wide his arms, then spread his wings. He said, Approach. The steps are closed at hand. From this point on, one can climb easily. His invitations answered by so few, O humankind, born for the upward flight. Why are you driven back by winds so slight? He led us to a cleft within the rock, and then he struck my forehead with his wing. That done he promised me saved journeying. As on the right, when one ascends the hill, where over - So, just"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "to clarify, the angel strikes Donnie on the forehead to wipe him of a pee, do you understand? So, each time he clears a terrace, a pee is wiped off, a peccata, sin is wiped off, okay? Keep on going. As on"
    },
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      "text": "the right, when one ascends the hill, where over Rubiconte's bridge, there stands the church that dominates the well -ruled city. The daring slope of the ascent is broken by steps that were constructed in an age when record books and measures could be trusted. So was the slope that plummets there so deeply down, from the other ring made easier, but on this side and that, high rock encroaches. While we began to move in that direction, the populous spirit too was sung, so sweetly it cannot be told in words. How different were these entryways from those of hell, for here it is with song one enters, down there it is with savage lamentation. Now we ascended by the sacred stairs, but I seemed to be much more light than I had been before along the level terrace. At this I asked, Master, tell me what heavy weight has been lifted from me so that I in going notice almost no fatigue?"
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      "text": "He answered, when the feet that still remain upon your brow, now almost all are faint, have been completely, like this pea, erased. Your feet will be so mastered by good will that they not only will not feel travail, but will delight when they're urged uphill."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so as more sins are purged from your system, you will literally be lighter, okay? You'll feel lighter and you'll be lighter, so you'll move faster. Okay, keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "One, two, seven. Then I behaved like those who made their way with something on their head of which they're not aware, till other signs make them suspicious, at which the hand helps them to ascertain. It seeks and finds and touches and provides the services that sight cannot supply. So with my right hand's outspread fingers, I found just six of the letters once inscribed by him who holds the keys upon my forehead, and as he watched me do this, my guide smiled."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, count to thirteen now."
    },
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      "text": "We now had reached the summit of the stairs, where once again the mountain whose ascent delivers man from sin has been indented. There, just as in the case of the first terrace, a second terrace runs around the slope, except that it describes a sharper arc. No effigy is there and no outline. The bank is visible, the naked path only the livid color of raw rock. If we wait here in order to inquire of those who pass, the poet said, I fear our choice of path may be delayed too long. And then he fixed his eyes upon the sun, letting his right side serve to guide his movement. He wheeled his left around and changed direction. O gentle light, through trust in which I enter on this new path, may you conduct us here, he said, for men need guidance in this place. You warm the world and you illumine it. Unless a higher power urges elsewhere, your rays must always be the guides that lead."
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      "text": "We had already journeyed there as far as we should reckon here to be a mile, and done it in brief time. Our will was eager when we heard spirits as they flew toward us, though they could not be seen, spirits pronouncing courteous invitations to love's table. The first voice that flew by called out aloud, Venum non avant, and behind us that same voice reiterated its example. And as that voice drew farther off before it faded finally, another cried, I am Orestes. It too did not stop. What voices are these, Father, were my words? And as I asked him this, I heard a third voice saying, Love those by whom you have been hurt. And my good master said, The sin of envy is scourged within the circle, thus the cords that form the scourging lash are plied by love. The sounds of punished envy, envy curbed, are different."
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      "text": "If I judge right, you'll hear those sounds before we reach the path of pardon. But let your eyes be fixed attentively, and through the air you'll see people seated before us, all of them on the stone terrace. I opened, wider than before, my eyes. I looked ahead of me, and I saw shades with clothes that shared their color with the rocks. And once we'd moved a little farther on, I heard the cry of, Mary, pray for us. And then heard Michael, Peter, and all saints. I think no man now walks upon the earth who so hard that he would not have been pierced by compassion by what I saw next. For when I had drawn close enough to see clearly the way they paid their penalty, the force of grief pressed tears out of my eyes. These souls, it seemed, were cloaked in coarse hair cloth, and other shoulders served each shade as prop, and all of them were bolstered by the rocks."
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      "text": "So did the blind who have to beg appear on pardoned days to plead for what they need, each bending his head back and toward the other. That all who watch feel quickly, pity's touch, not only through the words that would entreat, but through the sight which can no less beseech. And just as to the blind no son appears, so to the shades of whom I now speak, here the light of heaven would not give itself. For iron wire pierces and sews up the lids of all those shades as untamed hawks are handled, lest to restless they fly off. It seemed to me a gross discourtesy for me going to see and not be seen. Therefore I turned to my wise counselor. He knew quite well what I, though mute, had meant, and thus he did not wait for my request, but said, Speak, and be brief and to the point."
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      "text": "Virgil was to my right, along the outside, nearer the terrace edge, no parapet was there to keep a man from falling off. And to my other side were the devout shades, through their eyes sewn so atrociously, the spirit's force, the tears that bathed their cheeks. I turned to them, and you who can be certain, I then began, of seeing that highlight which is the only object of your longing, may in your conscious all impurity soon be dissolved by grace, so that the stream of memory flow through it limpidly. Tell me, for I shall welcome such dear words. If any soul among you is Italian, if I know that, then I perhaps can help him. My brother, each of us a citizen of one true city, what you meant to say was one who lived in Italy as pilgrim. My hearing placed the point from which this answer had come somewhat ahead of me."
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      "text": "Therefore I made myself heard farther on, moving. I saw one shade among the rest who looked expectant, and if any should ask how, its chin was lifted as a blind man is. Spirit, I said, who have subdued yourself that you may climb, if it is you who answered, then let me know by your place or name, know you by your place or name. I was a Sienese, she answered, and with others here I mend my wicked life, weeping to him that he granteth himself. I was not Sapient, though I was called Sapia, and I rejoiced far more at others' hurts than my own good fortune. Unless you should think I have deceived you, hear and judge, if I was not. As I have told you, mad when my year's arc had reached its downward part, my fellow citizens were close to Cole, where they joined battle with their enemies, and I prayed God for that which he had willed."
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      "text": "There they were routed, beaten. They were reeling along the bitter path of flight, and seeing that chase, I felt incomparable joy, so that I lifted my daring face and cried to God. Now I fear you no more, so did the blackbird after brief fair weather. I looked for peace with God at life's end. The penalty I owe for sin would not be less than now, but I penitence had not one who was sorrowing for me because of charity in him. Pierre Patineau remembered me in his devout petitions. But who are you who question our condition as you move on, whose eyes, if I judge right, have not been sown, who uses breath to speak? My eyes, I said, will be denied me here, but only briefly. The offense of envy was not committed often by their gaze. I fear much more the punishment below. My soul is anxious, in suspense."
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      "text": "Already I feel the heavy weights of the first terrace. And she, who then let you appear among us, if you believe you will return below? And I, he who is with me and is silent. I am alive, and therefore chosen spirit. If you would have me move my mortal steps on your behalf beyond, ask me for that. O this, she answered, is so strange a thing to hear, that sign is clear you have God's love. Thus help me sometimes with your prayers. I ask of you by that which you desire most, if you should ever tread the Tuscan earth to see my name restored among my kin. You'll see them among those vain ones who have put their trust in telamonite. Their lust and hope will be more than Diana cost. But there the admirals will lose the most."
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      "text": "Okay, so why is it that in the Terrace of Envy their punishment is their eyes are shut? Shown shut. What would that be the case?"
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      "text": "So they don't constantly look at others and compare themselves to others?"
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      "text": "Right. Yes. Um, and so once their eyes are shut, are shown shut, what effect does it have in them? Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Self, and you work on yourself, you are no longer comparing yourself to others, and you work on yourself to make yourself better. That's right. And not because I want to be better than the other guy next to me."
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      "text": "That's right, exactly, okay? Alright, um, and how would it be different in Hell? What would the punishment in Hell be?"
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      "text": "You have to keep looking at others. Okay."
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      "text": "And why would that be punishing?"
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      "text": "Because you have, well, well, because in Hell you're not really reflecting, so you still don't look at yourself and try to better yourself, but you feel more jealousy to other people."
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      "text": "You're forceful than other people. I'm trying to figure out how visually that works, right?"
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      "text": "Yes? I think in Hell it would just, like in the Pride circle, be a mindset difference, so in Hell everyone believed that everybody else could see, and they were lying to them, and somehow they were the ones that couldn't see, and that would be the ultimate envy. Yes. Because they could never be able to check."
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      "text": "Yeah, it would be the same punishment, guys, okay? But as you point out, the attitude would be different, right? Where, if you're not if you're not, if you can't see another person, it drives you insane. It makes you believe that that person is able to see, I can't see. Do you understand the logic here, right? Here, because these people have a growth mindset because they are on the path to redemption, they recognize that I should take the time to focus inward, but in Hell, they'd be like they're still stuck focusing on other people. If you can't, if you can't look at other people it drives them insane because they have to imagine that their lives are so much better than my life, right?"
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      "text": "It's the ultimate Hell, in a way."
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      "text": "It's the ultimate Hell, right, okay? So it's really interesting to think about, but yeah, the punishments would be the same, but the way that the person reacts to the punishment would be completely different. Okay? Alright. Let's go on to 14, please."
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      "text": "Canto 14. Who is this man who, although death has yet to grant him flight, can circle round our mountain and can at will open and shut his eyes? I know who he is, but I do know he's not alone. You're closer. Question him and greet him gently so that he replies. So are two spirits leaning toward each other, discussing me along my right -hand side. Then they bent back their heads to speak to me, and one began, O soul, who is still enclosed within the body, make your way toward Heaven. May you, through love, console us. Tell us who you are, from where you come. The grace that you've received, a thing that's never come to pass before, has cost us much astonishment. And I, through central Tuscany, there spread the little stream first born in Felterona. One hundred miles can't fill the course it needs. I bring this body from that river's banks to tell you who I am would be to speak in vain."
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      "start": 17401.09,
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      "text": "My name has not yet gained much fame. If, with my understanding, I have seized your meaning properly, replied to me, the one who'd spoken first, you mean the Arno. The other said to him, why did he hide that river's name, even as one would do in hiding something horrible from view? The shade to him this question was the grass repaid with this. I do not know, but it is right for such a valley's name to perish, for from its source, at which the rugged chain from which Peloras were cut off, surpasses most other places with its massive mountains, until its end point where it offers back those waters that evaporating skies through from the sea that streams may be supplied. Virtue is seen as serpent, and all flee from it as if it were an enemy, either because the sight is ill -starred, or their evil custom goads them so."
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      "text": "Therefore, the nature of that squalid valley's people has changed, as if they were in Circe's pasture. That river starts with miserable course among foul hogs, more fit for acorns than food devised to serve the needs of man. Then, as that stream descends, it comes on curves that, though their forces feeble snap and scornful of them, it swerves its snout away, and downward it flows on, and when that ditch ill -fated and accursed grows wider, it finds more and more that does become wolves. Descending then through many dark ravines, it comes on foxes so full of deceit. There's no trap that they cannot defeat. Nor will I keep from speech, because my comrade hears me, and it will serve you too to keep in mind what prophecy reveals to me. I see your grandson. He's become a hunter of wolves along the bank of the fierce river, and he strikes every one of them with terror."
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      "start": 17504.92,
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      "text": "He sells their flesh while they're still alive, then, like an ancient beast, he turns to slaughter to deprive many of life himself of honor. Bloody he comes out from the wood he's plundered, leaving it such that in a thousand years it will not be the forest that it was. Just as the face of one who has heard word of pain and injury becomes perturbed, no matter from what side that men stir, so did I see that other soul who turned to listen, growing anxious and dejected when he had taken in his comrade's words. The speech of one, the aspect of the other, had made me need to know their names, and I both queried and beseeched at the same time at which the spirit who had spoken first to me began again. You'd have me do for you that which to me you have refused, but since God would, and you, have his grace glow so brightly, I shall not be miserly."
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      "text": "Know, therefore, that I was Guido del Duca. My blood was so afire with envy that when I had seen a man becoming happy, the lividness in me was plain to see. From what I've sown, this is the straw I reap. O humankind, why do you set your hearts there when our sharing can not have a part? This is Ranieri, this is he the glory, the honor of the house of Calboli, but no one has inherited his worth. It's not his kin alone, between the Po and the mountains, and the Reno and the coast, who've lost the truth's grave good, and lost the good of gentle living too. Those lands are full of poison stumps by now, however much one were to cultivate. It is too late. Where's good Lisio, Arrigo Marinardi, Pier Travessaro, Guido di Campigna, or Romagnoli, to return to Bastardy?"
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      "text": "When will Afabro flourish in Bologna? When in Fenza of Bernardine di Fosco, the noble offshoot of a humble plant? Don't wonder, Tuscan, if I weep when I remember Ugolino Dazzo, one who lived among us, and Guido di Prata, the house of Travessaro, of Anastagi, both houses without heirs, and Federico Tignoso and his gracious company. The ladies and the knights, labors and leisure to which we once were urged by courtesy and love, where hearts now host perversity."
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      "text": "Okay, sorry, we'll stop. We're running out of time. But I'll ask you one more question, and then we'll end today. What does it mean to say why do you set your hearts there where our sharing cannot have a part? Someone interpret what this means and then we'll end the session."
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      "text": "Yes? Humans are obsessed with zero -sum games. Exactly."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "But explain to everyone else what this means. So"
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      "text": "it means your actions, if you are operating in a sphere where there is a limited amount of resources, there has to be winners and losers. Yes. And there cannot be anything else. Yes. And people really like this because you feel like your actions are meaningful and every gain feels like it matters so much more because you really know. It's not that you're constantly thinking about the loss of another person but you are aware of it. And you know that everything you gain is something that someone else had to lose. Exactly."
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      "text": "Yeah, so what this is saying is we're materialistic and all we care about is material accumulation and so it becomes a zero -sum game. Right? Because if I have this, you can't have that. Right? So what is the solution then? How do we get out of this zero -sum game? Is there a solution? Yes?"
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      "text": "Quality so that you can have a win -win situation."
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      "text": "And what is a win -win situation?"
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      "text": "Try to co -create something instead. Making the cake bigger instead of cutting off the cake. What is a win -win scenario for humanity?"
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      "text": "Yes?"
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      "text": "The solution to which we once were urged by courtesy and love where hearts now host perversity. So love, I would say. Yeah."
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      "text": "But what does it mean in practice?"
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      "text": "Well, instead of trying to wear down others, you help them and you have empathy for them. And instead of trying to gain everything for yourself, you try to have like, yeah. Okay."
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      "text": "So be generous, right? Right? If you need help, I'll help you. And then what are you gonna do? You'll help others and then they'll help others as well, right? So rather than a zero -sum game where there's only finite resources, generosity creates infinite love, okay? Does that make sense? All right. Okay. We'll end here and then we'll start with Canto 15 tomorrow and we'll try to do at least 10, possibly more than that, and that'll give us room and space for the final day to talk more in depth about Dante and how he sees our world, okay? Also, I want at the last day to give people an opportunity to talk about your personal experience with Dante. I think that's very, very important, okay? So if possible for the next two days, think about what it's been like to read Dante and how you as a person have changed. And also think about where you think in the future you'll go from here, okay?"
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      "text": "Has this been a life -transforming experience for you? Has it changed the trajectory of your life? And, you know, there's no right or wrong. You don't have to answer, but I think that everyone would appreciate it if you could share your emotional journey with Dante. And because we have such a diverse crowd of people, I think everyone's journey will be different, okay? So I think we will all appreciate that. But any questions before we conclude today? Okay. Great. So I will see... Yes? One question."
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      "text": "Yes? So I noticed that it took nine cantos for Dante to reach the Gate of Purgatory, but it only took three cantos to reach the Gate of Hell. So I wonder why it's different."
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      "text": "Do you have a theory? Yes? I've thought about this."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "I think there's more sins that aren't... Like all the betrayal of... against country and family and stuff like this that don't end up at Purgatory. Okay."
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      "text": "Yes. So at what canto do they enter this? You can actually check it. What canto in Inferno do you think they start to enter disk? We'll check this, okay? Can you go to Inferno 9 and see what happens in Inferno 9? Or Inferno 10, I think. I can't remember which it is, okay? Let's figure out where they are in Inferno 9 first. Okay. So Inferno 9, they're outside the gates of disk. Inferno 10 is when they enter disk. So it's the same thing, do you understand? Because in Inferno, there's one additional canto for the introduction. So all three are 33 cantos, and so what's happening is this is where hell proper is. And then the other circles, they're kind of like not that serious. Do you understand? And before they enter Purgatory, they have to go for anti -Purgatory. Okay? So it's symmetrical. Okay, alright. Thanks for the question. I'll see everyone tomorrow, okay?"
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      "text": "okay um good morning um welcome back so there are a couple of outstanding issues from last class that i would like to address so carol's son uh who was here he had a question about what is difference between pride and ego and this is a very hard question okay so first let's think about thinking about what the ego is so in the kabbalah tradition uh and the kabbalah tradition is very much um influenced by the divine comedy if you learn the kabbalah and you read the divine comedy you see a lot of similarities and these are not coincidental but in the kabbalah tradition um there is divine spark in everyone but it's covered by the husk okay the husk you can say it's the body it's the ego but for the kabbalah tradition the ego is basically just a body and desire to fulfill the body which means material pleasures okay so in the kabbalah"
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      "text": "tradition that's what the ego means dante doesn't see it that way um for dante the ego is really the divine spark okay in that it can propel us to uh good things and do bad things so it's potentiality as opposed to just a good or bad okay it's potential potentiality uh and the ego can lead us astray and when it leads us to astray it's because of pride okay and so for dante pride is an issue because it wants you it wants um the other egos to subordinate to your ego right so it's one of superiority a feeling of superiority where you are above others and for dante that's a problem because that limits your access to god okay love is about equality it's about um being egalitarian and treating others with respect and trusting others and the ego the pride it's about um um elevating yourself above others okay and the classic example of"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "text": "pride in divine comedy is virgil right virgil okay so that's the difference for um in most religious traditions there's really they don't really separate the two ego is pride but for dante there is a difference ego is potentiality it's possibility and pride is a perversion of the ego okay the ego should lead should lead you towards faith hope and love and wealthy ego you could not actually go on this path but um if you go on the wrong path it leads you to pride okay and again uh in the in the divine comedy even though it's not explicit uh virgil is the manifestation the expression of pride okay and we can see that in his actions um where um he uh but it will become more obvious as we go as we go along okay so that's the first issue does it make sense to everyone okay uh second issue is the issue of homosexuality"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "okay and this is an issue that raised concerns um so one question that i was asked yesterday is okay um what's the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality okay so so that so so thank you for for raising that question and i went to the question and i went back and i thought about this and even though my explanation is okay it's not truthful enough because the way for us to understand truth is occam's razor okay occam's razor is the idea of elegance meaning i should be very i should be able to pretty simply and clearly explain the idea and i and i was not able to do that yesterday it raised a lot of questions it raised a lot of doubts so even though we were approaching the truth we were not addressing it the truth so let me today try to more clearly and simply explain the pump of homosexuality okay and so um"
    },
    {
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      "text": "yesterday i made things a bit complicated i brought in the idea of incest and that was very confusing okay let's not do that okay let's just like stick with dante so with dante the key to understanding him is to first appreciate the punishment at work okay because for dante the punishment is god's perfect justice okay so we need to understand the punishment first and the punishment for these homosexuals is they are in a planes where like there's raining missiles on them okay and so they have to dodge these missiles for homosexuals they have to do it in a group okay they have to do it in a group and if one of them strays from the group that person is punished harder now this is interesting to think about because why would homosexuals be punished in such a manner okay so now we think about let's not think about what they did wrong but if"
    },
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      "text": "the punishment is you have to stick together as a group and you're being punished as a group if you fall away from the group you're punished even harder what kind of people should be punished like that right if we knew what the punishment is and we understand that these punishments are reflection of god's perfect justice then what kind of people what did you do wrong in society"
    },
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      "text": "that would make god punish you like this uh yes uh this thing these things they're like superior to the to the society as a general like they're they feel like they're entitled so they're they feel like they're above like uh like the normal people good okay so that's getting"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "somewhere okay but again what do they do wrong that sounds like pride but why are they being punished as a group"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "yes you know maybe uh homosexual things is kind of group just for male or for females so if in that case the male they don't need a female female also don't need a male tool so maybe"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "they animate each other right right let's not think about like their homosexuals or i'm saying what kind of people would deserve the sort of punishment yes um in that conception"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "people who are super self -centered you want to force them to be in a group and think as a group"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "okay that makes sense okay yeah people were too selfish and so they have to work together but they're not they're not working together being punished together right so basically this idea of factionalism right or mafia or fraternity does that make sense because the idea of fraternity the idea of mafia the idea of factionalism is that you only care about your own group and you're going to hurt others in order to achieve your own interests and that's why they're being punished like this okay so now if if it's these people who are engaged in mafia or fraternity or factionalism that uh should be that would be punished like this what does this have to do with homosexuality okay that's a question all right and again this should be clear all right so so make sure that my logic is clear to you each step of the way right the punishment is they're being punished for factionalism"
    },
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      "text": "the question then is what does this have to do with homosexuality"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "uh yes no coming back so like same in the mafia you act in some way and then you're part of the mafia forever and we could see the same pattern in homosexuality right have you guys heard something"
    },
    {
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      "text": "called the gay mafia pig mafia gay mafia okay these are people people who control hollywood right if you go to hollywood they're like we're controlled by the pig mafia the gay mafia all right so so so so let me explain this okay all right so ideal society everyone should rise a according to his or her individual merit right in an ideal society that's what donnie believes like it doesn't matter what faction you are it doesn't matter where your family comes from it doesn't matter all that matters is your individual merit that that's what's ideal but in reality the people who often triumph are people who are able to conspire together right so the question then is how are homosexuals able to conspire together okay so and the reason why is they're often persecuted by society so they have to work in secret okay and so they help each other in order to obtain success and"
    },
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      "text": "they're not doing it out of evil or malice they're doing it just to like be able to love each other okay and so that's why if you just look at history if you look at any bureaucracy in any society people who often climb highest in this bureaucracy tend to be homosexuals does it make sense okay and you go back to imperial china the unix right you sorry you go to the vatican right you go to washington dc you go to hollywood it's usually homosexuals that climb to the top again this is not being i'm not saying this is evil but like just so that they can practice your love for each other they have to work at class when together okay and they have to help each other and so they become a mafia right the pink mafia the gay mafia and but because the mafia they able to climb higher together because they're able"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "to coordinate together secretly in a way that others are not able to does it make sense yes could this be linked to your"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "like previous ideas like by breaking taboo like bond is generated yes yes"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "okay yes and that also explains why if one breaks away then he's punished harder because he's breaking the vow to the group and the secret that he had to"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "exactly exactly right exactly thank you very much and the other issue is okay like why can't heterosexuals do this because if you're a heterosexual you marry a woman right and the woman demand demands that only you are loyal to her whereas with gay lovers you can share with others right you can expand that the group in a way you can't expand the group with you were heterosexual doesn't make sense all right okay I guess following this logic okay now now the question is like why would this be a bad thing not bad and reason why is that if a certain group are able to amass more power for themselves right this forces other people to form their own factions doesn't make sense in order to compete you have no choice in the matter right so now you have more factionalism going on all right and so now what happens is that the elite fight amongst"
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      "text": "themselves because it's factional politics now and when the elite fights fight amongst themselves they're able what they're doing is they're monopolizing all resources for themselves which creates more inequality right in society if you don't have a faction when most people don't have a faction you're completely screwed and so there's this massive inequality which creates all this economic pressure and then you have to fight for yourself and you can't fight for yourself because you can't talk to yourself and you can't seem to be able to open doors and the only way for you to respond if you're an ordinary person well a faction is to commit fraud right and then what happens is lawlessness takes place so um that's why Don haight's Morocco homosexuality daday's concern about homosexuality he knows that yes these best and brightest are our homosexuals and he's in for him the something wrong homosexuality it's whatあ ‑‑ homosexuality it's what a homosexuality"
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      "text": "lead to in society that's a problem and funny is right accumulated to saw me anyway society after that um darüber With a bureaucracy. Eventually, the homosexuals take over. And this creates factionalism, this creates moral decay, this creates lawlessness, this creates corruption. So, does this make sense now?"
    },
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      "text": "Sorry, I still don't understand why homosexuality is able to form factions while heterosexuality cannot."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, alright. So, let me explain this again, okay? Or you want to, yes."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Yeah, because I'm thinking of the symmetry between Inferno 16 and Paradiso 16. Because, in theory, in Paradiso 16, we're also talking about factions, families, right? But I guess the core lesson that I think, if I remember back on Paradiso 16, was that there was a line, there was a concept where it says, like, the individual should serve the family instead of the family. Making that individual noble."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yeah."
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      "text": "You get what I mean? So, bringing it back to Inferno 16, right? I don't know if it's homosexuality or self -indulgence of self -centeredness, but the idea of, you know, cases where I observe people with homosexual tendencies tending to rise is because they're able to harness the power of the group to serve them. Yes. Right? By withholding participation. So, I... In my mind, that kind of makes sense and is elegant."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. So, let me explain it another way, okay? Homosexuals are able to have multiple lovers. That's not a problem for them. Right? Do you understand this idea?"
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      "text": "I feel like love is still love."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. So, with heterosexuals, if you love someone, you get married, right? Right. So, a marriage is a compact between two people and only two people. And if you bring another person, like a mistress, well, that breaks the bond. Do you understand? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I think for female homosexuals, and lesbians, they are more committed to one on one relationship. But if it's like male homosexuals, then it's completely different. So, it's a different game. It's like you could have multiple lovers and that is okay. So, I think that's why it's hard."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "for you as a girl to understand yeah okay all right so so yeah okay thank you yes yes if you're a woman and someone loves you right you want that you want that to be a one -on -one thing right whereas if you're a man you don't really care so so you'll be able to have like a large um network of male lovers and again like if you just like look at any history whether it's washington dc or hollywood i mean like it's pretty common okay uh yes and i think it's uh not just about"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "like being being a homosexual it's about like having a same vision so you can like uh assemble a group together like secret society and it follows the same logic right to to infiltrate"
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      "text": "the bureaucracy yeah no i i again i don't think the intention is evil i just think they want to they just want to like be homosexuals right because that's what gives them happiness but to do so because they're so heavily persecuted by others they have no choice but to become a secret society okay um"
    },
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      "text": "yes and i also have heard that uh in homosexual society uh the people they got their some people they got their right to have more lovers but some people don't have the right to get and some people played in the male role and some people played in the female role so this is kind of hierarchy order"
    },
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      "text": "in the homosexual uh you know society like that right yes okay yes um yeah so well we're talking about like back then gay marriage marriage or homosexuality was more like persecuted but nowadays more accepted right so for example like when you look at tel aviv or like this like red for example also the middle class people are more open and uh homosexual and they're not really like about taking power or like trying to right"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "okay so society right so so so so this is what don is saying here um i said he's rising society's focus on expanding society on family on marriage a lot of social policies are centered around the family okay but once a society has become decadent then the elite don't really care about society all they care about is indulging in their own desires and they want to feel good about themselves and they really don't care about the impact on society um so so if you look at today yes there is openness and acceptance but at the same time the only thing about election anạt okay not just it like they looked at washington dc where the trump family is just engaged in the most egregious uh corruption and they're not even hiding it okay they're just open about it they're like you know if you give me if you give me if you're in prison you"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "give me a like you know 10 million dollars i'll let you out it's open okay now let me let me ask you this okay let's imagine donald trump he's kicked out of office in 2028 the democrats come in what are they going to do uh yes put him in prison they'll probably put him in prison and then what what are they going to do it's gonna purge his family excuse me it's gonna purge his family yeah yeah yeah yeah they'll go after trump but then what are they gonna do ask for a ransom they'll probably be even worse okay you understand they they'll they'll say you know like we come in we'll clean house and we'll restore the sanctity of the american republic no they're not coming in they'll engage even more corruption okay so so that's what donna is saying here like when the elite lose their sense of responsibility to the people then"
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      "text": "society just becomes the anchor it just goes into free fall okay and um yes i mean i don't want to say homosexuality is bad the reason why people kept homosexuality hidden before was they had to pay they had to be that's a virtue to the family right they had to pretend at least the family was important yeah i mean like they probably had these homosexual affairs on the side but at least they were hypocrites at least they made a point of like playing to the public perception right uh yes yeah what about lgbt do"
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      "text": "you think denting will agree with that or do you think it's the same thing as homosexuality right"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "there's no difference uh you know it's the same idea it's the same sense of like self -indulgence and what matters is my own pleasure my own happiness and i really don't care the impact on society okay that doesn't make sense guys all right so so again what we're doing is we're trying to um logically come to understand uh dante's uh cosmology okay all right so um but again i want to thank you guys for raising questions for doubting for challenging because this helps us as a group to think much more deeper okay so dante implants in the mind comment a lot of paradoxes which allows us to think deeper and we are we are able to arrive at the truth through uh exploration and food debate okay uh yes i think one thing that would be worth exploring"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "is to actually interview you know maybe people around us who are homosexuals um you know what what what exactly dante is trying to convey here because I guess at the end of the day all punishment is self -punishment right it's it's a it's a it's an internal Loop right I think the answers would be in in in those individuals just asking just you know maybe trying to learn"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "more okay um so um a couple comments um uh first of all this is being live streamed and we need to be conscious uh protecting people's privacy okay um uh but yes I I think that if we were to share our stories more this would help the discussion but the constraint is that this is being um live stream and the other thing is that because it's being live stream and because we're dealing with different contacts we're in China we're broadcasting a global audience um you know we are at the Yale Beijing Center uh of the cultural sensitivities of each cult of of each place okay um um and um look censorship is a reality in this world ideally we we'll be free to complete explore and that's what leads to good is true but we're living in a time of massive censorship and where you'll be judged uh unfairly for things you say okay uh"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "this is a different time um I mean when I was growing up when we were in college like like free speech was the primary ideal like like it's something like you don't you don't do that to people like you may disagree with them but you don't censor them that that was that was considered a sin now it's just very common practice to cancel people for things they they say people are judged very harshly yes um so I"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "actually had this question yesterday as well so what about those people who purposefully chose not to have kids in some ways they're also blocking social mobility just like the homosexuals in a certain way but they're not depicted in like anywhere in the Divine Comedy so and how would Donnie feel about these people who don't have kids like if they chose not to have kids I feel like in some ways it's like similar to like the homosexuals so I feel like he should have like a similar"
    },
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      "text": "feeling well okay okay well here's here's a question then okay in the Catholic Church what kind of people are most revered yeah yeah right that's a problem"
    },
    {
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      "text": "monks and yeah yeah go ahead and also you have to take in the time back then in the 14th century there's probably no condoms and so there's no way like you said that I want to choose to be not having kids if I'm married it's not usually an option unless you're a priest obviously you're not married in the first place so then for Dante's card to understand they are married couples who kids so then that's why maybe it's not in the you know listed here it's not an option back then"
    },
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      "text": "and also like if you're a woman okay if you had a free will you probably would not want to get married why that doesn't want to know yeah because if you give birth there's one third of a chance or more yeah guys you understand how how awful it was to be a woman back then there were no condoms there was no hygiene there were no hospitals one third chance of dying in childbirth right it's like suicide and like quite honestly like you're expected to give birth a lot right it's like the first one third doesn't hit you yes it's very common for a woman to die a childbirth at this time so including including beatrice beatrice died giving birth at 24 at 24 right so so so so yeah okay uh any more questions before we we move on yes so in my in my research of aristotelian"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "telios like have you just i missed yesterday afternoon so did you discuss the telios like everything has a specific purpose in life and i see i see the difference between lust and homosexuality because they're on separate levels as being like lust you're focusing on one thing one thing perhaps the correct thing right because if if uh augustine and dante would be saying um the purpose of of of a relationship would be reproduction and marriage if you're lusting that could happen you're just wanting it in maybe an incorrect way or too much but in homosexuality the telios is off because there there is no reproduction that could happen and so i see this as or i don't see this i'm reading scholars who are pointing out that homosexuality is just simply an act of lust and it's not a act of lust and it's not a act of lust it's a act of lust and it's"
    },
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      "text": "not a act of lust and it's not a act of lust and it's not a act of lust and it's not a act of lust and lust is a correct telios but in an incorrect incorrect proportion and so all of this extra stuff might be fine and social it just seems like muddying the waters where aristotelian uh understanding would simplify it okay so that you"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "build aristotle and that's a very interesting analysis at this time aristotle is very popular and dante would have known aristotle he would have known the idea of telios and he would have the idea of telos is purpose right you come here for purpose and you achieve happiness by achieving your your telos and on that i idea dante would agree but um but for aristotle telos is really about fulfilling your social responsibility whereas for dante he's very much an individualist in meaning like for telos is about fulfilling yourself okay now um their citizens would say there's really no difference but uh for dante there is a major difference right one the difference is uh between fulfilling people's exploitation of your telos as to number two really understanding your telos and achieving your telos okay and so basically what the airstylist say is look society knows what's best if society says you should go have children then"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "that's your telos but what donnie would say no no no you trust your intuition right if your telos is like i just want to approach you for the rest of my life and i don't have children then you should just follow your intuition okay so so that's that's the difference but but you absolutely right aristotle is very important at this state at this time in history all right any more comments or questions this is great by the way um and it really shows uh your depth of understanding has radically improved over the past few days yes uh like uh previously you said"
    },
    {
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      "start": 1727.87,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "that uh any any great art in the history uh whether it's uh homer or uh divine comedy was often created by one single person right and uh and is uh often driven by the strong will and and uh but like i think uh uh like go back to the question of about like self -indulgence um but like there also can be a like those narcissists can also hold a strong will right while being like uh self -indulgent uh so what separates uh a artist like a sacred inwardness"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "with uh to a narcissist okay all right so yesterday i i i did say the problem homosexuality is self -indulgence and i recognize that is incorrect okay that's why i went back and i self -reflected and i came up with a new understanding and in this new understanding the problem isn't self -indulgence the problem is factionalism okay so donna is not saying in self -indulgence is a problem prize a problem self -indulgence is not a problem you need a you need a bit of self -love you need a bit of ego if you are if you are to achieve or create a great piece of art okay all right all right great any more questions before we start okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "let's let's start cattle uh infernal 21. canto 21. we came along from one bridge to another talking of things my comedy is not concerned to sing we held fast to the summit and stayed our steps to spy the other cleft of melabojay and other vain laments i saw that it was wonderfully dark as in the arsenal of the venetians all winter long a stew of sticky pitch boils up to patch their sick and tattered ship that cannot sail instead of a row some of the stern and some make oars and some braid ropes and cords one men's the jib another the main sail so not by fire but by the art of god below there boiled a thick and terry mass that covered all the banks with claminess i saw it but i could not see within it no thing was visible but boiling bubbles the swelling of the pitch and then it settled and"
    },
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      "start": 1881.37,
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      "time_label": "31:21",
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      "text": "while I washed below attentively my guide called out to me take care take care and then from where I stood he drew me near I turned around as one who's impatient to see what he should shun but is dashed down beneath the terror he has undergone who does not stop his flight and yet would look and then in back of us I saw a black demon as he came racing up the cracks ah he was surely barbarous to see and how relentless seemed to me his acts his wings were open his feet were life across his shoulder which was sharp and high he had slung a sinner upward from the thighs in front the demon gripped him by the ankles then from our bridge he called Omele bronchi I've got an elder of Saints Vita for you chef this one under I'll go back for more his city is well furnished with such stores there"
    },
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      "start": 1932.25,
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      "text": "everyone's a grafter but Bontoro and there for cash they'll change a no to yes he threw the center down that wheeled along the stony cliff no mastiff ever been unleashed with so much haste to chase a thief the center plunged then surfaced black with pitch but now the demons from beneath the bridge shouted the sacred face has no place here here we swim differently than in this Circio if you don't want to feel our grappling hooks don't try to lift yourself above that ditch they pricked him with a hundred prongs and more and then taunted here one dances undercover so try to grab your secret graft below okay all right so we are in the"
    },
    {
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      "start": 1975.9,
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      "time_label": "32:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "circle of fraud where everyone lies and deceives and steals uh and here this is the punishment for the for grafters people who engage in corruption and graft and um the example being used is this um priest who who obviously is engaging in simony and um the punishment is to basically fester in boiling uh in a in boiling excrement and some of them feel the pain so much that they try to Escape they try to escape and then the demons catch them and tear them and tear them apart and that that is their uh punishment okay all right let's come"
    },
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 2019.27,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "demons did the same as any cook who has his Urchins forced to meet with clicks deep down into the pot float then my good master said to me don't let those demons see that you're here take care to crouch behind the cover of a crag no matter what offense they offer me don't be afraid i know how these things go i'll have to face such focuses before when this was said he moved beyond the bridgehead and on the sixth embankment he had need to show his imperturbability ability with the same frenzy with the brouhaha of dogs when they beset a poor wretch who then stops dead in his tracts as if to beg so from beneath the bridge the demons rushed against my guide with all their prongs but he called out can't you forget your savagery before you try to maul me just let one of your troops step forward hear me out and"
    },
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "text": "then decide if i'm to be hooked at this they howled let melakota go and one of them moved up the others died and as he came he asked how can he win a malakota do you think i've come my master answered him already armed as you can see against your optics obstacles without the will of god and helpful fate let us move on it is the will of heaven for me to show this wild way to another at this the pride of malakota fell his prong dropped his feet he told his fellows since that's the way things stand let us not wound him my guy my guide then spoke to me oh you who crouched bent low among the bridges splintered rocks you can feel safe and"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "now return to me okay so um daunting virgil see these demons okay and in this stage in the story there are some things that are unusual what what's unusual about the story what is that that that's happening that didn't really happen before what strikes you as strange in the story so far as"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "yes that demons are the one punishing whereas before it was like natural causes yes okay yeah"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "so so first of all um demons are in charge of the punishment uh yes okay but there's a bigger surprise here and this didn't really happen before where's dante he's hiding right this hasn't happened before this is the first time that that donnie's hiding so so what does this tell us about the emotional state of virgil how's he feeling right now why would why would donnie hide here but not elsewhere right they went to the city of dis and that this was this was also ruled by fallen angels but donnie didn't hide yes i think he starts to lose"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "trust in virgil and he's afraid of virgil can't control the demons that he used to but who told"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "donnie to hide virgil it was virgil who told donna to hide right so that doesn't make much sense but keep on going what's going on here yeah virgil's afraid it's not donnie's afraid it's virgil who's afraid okay and so how does virgil respond to his own fear what are ways in which you you can respond with fear to fear your own fear how is virgil responding to his fear by all fright so"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "37:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "either you fight it or you run away from it so he kind of fights it he kind of stands up and be like hey bring one guy and talk to me and let's see if we can figure this out right okay yeah that's"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "37:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "well by projecting his fear onto someone else he can he kind of can deal with it well because virgil i don't know how can he even feel fear if he's not alive if he's not even it's not what i"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "i don't understand so he doesn't have a body but he still has emotions right right otherwise how could you be punished in hell if you have actually no emotions you can't feel any punishment right so all i can say is there is nothing he can do right in hell right now but first of all i'll just put right how does how does virgil choose to confront the demons right Virgil's are free to the demons right Virgil's fraid of the demons so what does he do to deal with the demons"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "38:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "but he says there's a higher power protecting me so don't touch me"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "yeah right he's flexing he's being arrogant right right so to deal with his fear he's choosing to be proud and arrogant before the demons okay and the demon sends his pride and they uh lower themselves to uh virgil okay does it make sense the logic here virgil's afraid and he doesn't really know how to control the situation so his first instinct is to protect dante uh and then virgil goes up and confronts the demons and flexes right says you know i'm much stronger than you obey me and demon's like fine whatever okay right why should we be suspicious here of of what's going on yes i have a question because"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "39:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "you i said i remember you said uh the virgil should be a master of the of the hell but why he's just afraid of demon in this case because you're doing factions in hell right the thing"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 2396.76,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "about hell is like it's like italy where no one's really in charge everyone's fighting each other because of their pride right okay so he he's master of certain parts of hell but not all parts of hell as you go deeper into hell he loses control okay all right okay like if you're a demon and someone is flexing at you what what should your response be yeah like i can punch you out man right so so this is very suspicious you know again this is when when there's a paradox it forces something deeper right why are the demons being so obedient right why the demons lowering themselves and and so what what do you think the answer is we are in the circle of freud guys deception right do you understand okay that's that's what these demons are they are engaging deception they enjoy deception right does that make sense and if you are this demon"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "and you're a head demon and you love deception�� you think you can deceive virgil why okay okay so let us um think of an example from real life okay all right um yes because by uh by trick by trickling virgil you basically mocking god no no no no i'm trying to figure out how he figured out you can trick virgil uh yes virgil's"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "is in limbo so he's in a relatively speaking much nicer place than these people these guys okay all"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "right all right so we don't want to overthink things okay the solution has to be simple and elegant so let's just think of example where you know you're with your friend okay and maybe you know you go to and i'm just making this up okay you go to you go to turkey for vacation and your friend um you know maybe maybe your friend lives in turkey and you're gonna go visit your friend in turkey right and your friend in turkey wants to show you a good time so then your friend takes you to this uh bazaar the store and he's like you know like oh i i know how to haggle right you understand the logic here right and what's the shop shop what are you gonna do he's gonna see like you're your friend right you don't lose face you want to show how much in control you are right doesn't make sense and"
    },
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      "text": "so you recognize oh it's just arrogance it's this pride i can take advantage of doesn't make sense okay so so again the thing about literature is you can always apply it to real life and it has to make sense okay does that make sense guys all right so the demon recognizes hmm virgil thinks he's got gone inside right well i can probably rip him off now right because he's so he's so arrogant he's so full of himself it's easier to trick arrogant people than this trick humble people okay does that make sense"
    },
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      "time_label": "43:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "all right uh let's let's keep on going line 88 my the guide then spoke to me oh you who crouched bent low among the bridges splintered rocks you can feel safe and now return to me at this i moved and quickly came to him the devils had edged forward all of them i feared that they would not be able to keep their word just so i saw the infantry where they mar when they marched out under safe conduct from caprona they trembled when they passed their enemies my body huddled closer to my guide i did not let the demons out of sight the looks they cast at us"
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      "text": "were less than kind how how is dante feeling right now scared yeah he's probably like it doesn't doesn't feel right okay you know you're at this bazaar and it's clear the shop shop owner is going to rip us off we should be careful right but your friend's like no i know this guy we're like we're like you know we went to school together he's gonna give me face he's gonna give us a best deal okay all right so dante is afraid um keep on going line 100 they bent their hooks and"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "shouted to each other and shall i give it to him on the rump and all of them replied yes let him have but malakota still in conversation with my good guy turned quickly to his squadron and said be still smart scarmiglione still to us he said there's no use in going much farther on this ridge because the sixth bridge at the bottom there is smashed to bits yet if you two still want to go ahead move up and walk along this rocky edge nearby another which will form a path five hours from this hour yesterday 1266 years past since that roadway was shattered here i'm sending 10 of mine out there to see if any sinners lift this head for air go with my men there's no malice in them okay so he's saying"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "text": "that can you don't keep on going because the bridge was destroyed by jesus when he came to hell there's another way i'm going to send 10 of my men with you and again just the idea that he says there is no malice in them like don't do evil you should be careful right like we won't trick you okay we mean you no harm that's probably a sign you should be careful but again virgil is too arrogant to recognize this okay i could keep on going line 118 step forward alokino and"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "cal cabrino he then began to say and you cognazzo and babarichia who can lead the ten lilly picocco and draganazzo and tusky chariato and rafia kane and far from relo and matt rubiconte search all around the clammy stew of pitch keep these two safe and sound till the next bridge that rise without break across the den on me what is it this master that i see i said can't we do without company if you know how to go i want no escort if you're just as keen as usual can't you see how those demons grind their teeth their brows are menacing they promise trouble and he to me i do not want you frightened just let them nash away as they may wish they do it for the wretches boiled in pitch they turned around along the left bank bank left hand bank but first each pressed his tongue between his teeth a signal for"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "their leader babarichia and he had made a trumpet of his ass okay so um what does donnie"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "do here that he's never done before yeah do you guys do you guys see this okay he's actually challenging virgil verbally maybe before he had before he had his doubts right but he kept them good out of respect for virgil so why is donnie doing this why is donnie challenging virgil and saying we really shouldn't trust these guys right he's he's he's now verbally challenging virgil why to me he's afraid of getting tricked okay he's fair yes uh what else isn't virgil's pride getting"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "in the way here and so dante is just like forget about getting the good deal at the bazaar man"
    },
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "just let's just go exactly right and why would you do that i mean i would do it because of"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "frustration i would just be like there's a simpler way you're making this more complex than it needs"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "to be why dante does it i don't okay okay no uh yes well just this intuition maybe says it so right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "but again we've been reading the divine harmony and there are lots of cases where donnie doesn't really feel right about this situation but it doesn't really speak up right he's afraid but he doesn't really speak up and now he no no no no does he speak up but he's actually challenging virgil says like here your intuition may not be correct why would he do that yes i think it's"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "49:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "basically his literary work is trying to show that maybe he's hinting that he could be better than virgil because he's the meek and human like the humble one so you could see the truth more simply than virgil so he's trying to show that this is the turning point where i will be you know the better poet or the better person in the situation okay all right let's think think of an"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "start": 2972.51,
      "end": 3036.5,
      "time_label": "49:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "example okay so you're in school and this is primary school and there's a classmate and this classmate you know is cheating okay now there are there's been some classmates who are going to go up and up and says hey i saw you cheating don't cheat okay there'll be some other classmates who just ignore this what's the difference who would go up to the cheating student and says look you're cheating and the teacher's gonna catch you so maybe you just stop in what instance would you yes it could be a as an act of love it's an act of love you understand it's an act of love because you're putting yourself at risk as well right you're you're putting yourself when you tell your friend let's get out of here right not only are you angering your friend's pride but you might piss off the shop owner as well it's an act of love you're putting"
    },
    {
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      "text": "yourself at risk okay does that make sense it's not an act of like i know more than you virgil right you can't know more than virgil because virgil's your god in hell it's an act of like virgil uh i love you and uh i want to protect you as you're protecting me okay so what this is telling us is that what this really what this journey really is it's a journey into love where vert don before had tremendous respect for virgil but now they're just becoming like very close because all these adventures they're having in at in um in hell right um does that make sense guys and so this is this so what's really important to understand is not just the cosmology not just understand um um danish theology but we understand that this ultimately um a journey um and a love story between dante and virgil okay so there is this there's this"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "conflict between the two but there's also real deep affection between the two and it's very much real okay and and we know what's going to happen we know that eventually they'll have to uh part okay but the idea is to create so much affection in us you for virgil and dante that when they do part we we we cry with them when they do part okay does that make sense all right yes she had said something that i wanted to build off of"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "52:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "dante the poet sorry there's three dantes dante's the poet sat down to write this recollection to get to explain faith hope and love but i guess they could all be unified as capital t truth and he's in the realm of liars right and so essentially he would be like the longer they stay here the longer you stay here in the realm of liars they're ruining my poem of truth right so let's let's get out of the lie realm because i'm i'm transcribing truth right okay so that's an"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "interesting interpretation and um i would disagree um because why would what's it important for dante to journey into hell right because because why is donny talking to these souls that are being punished i learned nothing yet to see right but but then what yeah yes because it's the way to paradise um it's yeah it's it's the way to paradise but remember when virgil and donnie are talking right virgil says go talk to that guy and then and then the soul is like i don't want to talk to you and then virgil is like you should talk to him because what was virgil say what can donnie do for them why should they"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "talk to him talk to him yes um go back to the world and talk about the consequences of sins"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "exactly okay donnie's gonna record this so it's very important for donnie to experience as much as he can in hell it's not about escaping hell it's about truly understanding hell to share with other people okay and this is the path to truth uh not to avoid something but to experience it for yourself and then that way that heightens your understanding okay all right uh let's uh keep on going this is canto 20 uh this is canto 22 okay canto 22 before this i've seen"
    },
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      "text": "horsemen start to march and open the assault and muster ranks and seen them too at times beat their retreat and oh your land oh aritnees i've seen rangers and raiding parties galloping the clash of tournaments the rush of joust now done with trumpets now with bells and now with drums and now with signs from castle walls with native things and with imported wares but never yet have i seen horsemen or seen infantry or ship that sails by signal of land or star moved to so strange a bugle we made our way together with ten demons ah what ferocious company and yet in church with saints with rotters in the tavern but i was all intent upon the pitch to seek out every feature of the pouch and of the people who were burning in it just as the dolphins do when with arched back they signal to the semen to prepare for tempest that their"
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      "text": "vessel may be so here from time to time to ease his torments some sinners showed his back above the surface then hit more quickly than a lightning flash and just as on the margin of a ditch frogs crouched their snouts alone above the water so as to hide their feet and their plump flesh so here on every side these sinners crouched but faster than a flash when barbaricia drew near they plunged beneath the boiling pitch i saw my heart still shudders and recall one who delayed just at just as at times a frog is left behind while others dive below with graficani who was closest to him then hooked him by his pitch and tangled locks and hauled him up he'd seem to me an otter by now i knew the names of all those demons i paid attention when the fiends were chosen i'd watch as they stepped forward one by one oh rubicante"
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      "text": "see you set your talents right into him so you can flay his flesh so did those cursed ones cry out together my master if you can't find out what is the name of that unfortunate who's fallen victim to his enemies my guide who then drew near that sinner's side asked him to tell his birthplace he replied my homeland was the kingdom of navarre my mother who had had me by a wastrel destroyed himself and his possessions had placed me in the service of the lord then i was in the household of the worthy kings of tebow there i started taking graft with this heat i pay reckoning for that and chiriato from his mouth their bulge to right and left two tusks like a wild hogs then let him feel how one of them could mangle the mouse had fallen in with evil cats but barbaricia clasped him in his arms and said stand off"
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      "text": "there while i fork him fast and turning toward my master then he said ask on if you would learn some more from him before one of the others dust him in"
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      "text": "okay stop okay all right so um let's feel free about this is an unusual punishment because it gives the people here an opportunity to escape right it's not like they're locked in place it's like you know there's a boiling pitch the boiling lake and you can always escape it right why would this be a fitting punishment for people who engage in"
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      "text": "graft yes go ahead and graft they take resources and things away from people who should have right"
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      "text": "okay and so why would this be a fitting punishment for them uh yes maybe because it's"
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      "text": "doing that is so addicting that they can't stop doing it right okay so there's a compulsion to"
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      "text": "them yes right they have to steal they have engaging grab yes okay that's part one part"
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      "text": "of it yes and the mechanism of it if you steal something you can always at every part of the journey you can always decide to turn back and give it give it back you know return whatever"
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      "text": "you stole why do people engage in graph what's the mentality of people who engage in graft right why do they steal what's your mentality maybe it's coveting of what others have that you don't have so you want to have it then why is this not greed what's going on here what what's"
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      "text": "the mentality why do they engage in graft uh yes oh yeah you mean stealing right i think stealing is kind of thing that you want to get something uh and also you can get much more benefit from it but there's no punishment there's nothing good nothing bad there so that's why people oh when they just like to steal they just stick to steal something it's really hard to give it up yeah so yeah go"
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      "text": "ahead yeah well also when you steal you decide that this thing that you steal is more deserving for you than the owner like you say like in you in this action like i deserve this"
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      "text": "and the owner doesn't really but why why do you deserve it well maybe pride okay yes anyone else"
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      "text": "yes at the back i feel like for greed you are kind of more focusing on like a specific thing for example like money and whatever but yeah you're really you're kind of like stealing anything yes yeah like a lot of a"
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      "text": "variety of stuff but what is grab you're selling from who graft has to come from a position of"
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      "text": "power um okay so the person here right he becomes a servant to a powerful lord and then he starts to steal from this powerful lord why is he doing that yes because the lord is at a better financial position yeah but then the lord's being generous to him right so why would you steal from him"
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      "text": "right yes you don't respect the lord"
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      "text": "you don't love the lord but yeah but why don't you respect the lord"
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      "text": "you reject the inherent hierarchy in your relationship okay uh yes uh maybe because just like you you're unique in the qing dynasty and they just try to uh steal something for emperor because this thing they deserve they deserve to have it because they just pay tribute"
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      "end": 3736.79,
      "time_label": "1:01:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "to the emperor all the time so okay so so let's think of like a most common example of graft okay which is the accountant right so you're a rich person you have an accountant and for accounting that person is able to steal a lot of money from you what's the mentality of that person exactly i'm gonna get away with this right exactly right it's not that i'm better than you i'm like i can go get i can go with this i'm smarter than you that's what graft is i'm gonna get away with this there's no punishment i'm so sneaky i'm so clever i can get away with this so why would this punishment be fitting for these people okay they are in the boy link pitch like that kind of sucks they escape and they're caught by demons who do what to them these demons literally tear them apart right which is the worst punishment"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0118",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3738s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0118",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0118",
      "start": 3738.49,
      "end": 3780.16,
      "time_label": "1:02:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "the second one right so it's kind of silly where look if you just stay where you are if you just stay in the boring pitch it kind of sucks but it's a lot better than being like you know torn to pieces by demons right but they can't help themselves they're like no i have to escape like i'll get away right but like we know for a fact you're not getting away because this is hell this is god's perfect justice there's no way you're gonna escape hell but for the reason they're in like no i will escape this time even though for the past 10 million times i was caught by the demon and and you know destroyed okay okay does it make sense"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0119",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3781s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0119",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0119",
      "start": 3781.52,
      "end": 3788.46,
      "time_label": "1:03:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "yes wait so when they're torn to pieces they their bodies get back together yeah so they're torn to"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0120",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3788s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0120",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0120",
      "start": 3788.72,
      "end": 3813.31,
      "time_label": "1:03:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "pieces then they resurrect in in the boiling pitch then they do it again and then something happens they do it again this happens like for all eternity okay so it's it's it's almost like this compulsion where they think i'll get away this time right i'll i won't get caught this time i'll be so sicky this time but it's absolutely pointless okay does that make sense all right"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0121",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3813s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0121",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0121",
      "start": 3813.31,
      "end": 3859.17,
      "time_label": "1:03:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "keep going line 64 at which my guide now tell the sinners who hide beneath the pitch are any others italian and he i've just left one who was nearby there and would i wear it still covered by the pitch as he's hidden for then i'd have no fear of hook or talon and libby kako said we've been too patient and with his grapple grabbed him by the arm and ripping carried off a hunk of flesh but dragon not so also looked as if to grab his legs at which their captain wheeled and threatened all of them with raging looks when they'd grown fast but still had their weapons ready in the end of the battle the light of the fire was which was even troublemakers zagat total right because tumultuous without delay my guide asked of that one who had his eyes still fixed upon his wound he was the one you left to come"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0122",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3859s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0122",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0122",
      "start": 3859.17,
      "end": 3920.1,
      "time_label": "1:04:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "ashore and luckily as you just said before he answered frakomita of golura who was a vessel fit for every fraud he had his master's enemies in hand but handled them in ways that please them all he took their gold and smoothly let them off as he himself says and in other matter matters he was a sovereign not a petty swindler His comrade there is Don Michele Zanchi of Logodoro, and their tongues are never too tired to talk of their Sardinia. Ah me, see that one there who grinds his teeth, if I were not afraid, I'd speak some more, but he's getting set to scratch my scurf. And their great marshal, facing Farforello, who was so hot to strike he rolled his eyes, said, Get away from there, you filthy bird! If you perhaps would like to see or hear, that sinner terrified began again. Lombards or Tuscans, I can fetch you some, but let the melebronchi stand aside so that my comrades may not fear their vengeance."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0123",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3920s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0123",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0123",
      "start": 3920.7,
      "end": 3930.04,
      "time_label": "1:05:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Remaining in this very spot, I shall, although alone, make seven more appear when I have whistled, as has been our custom when one of us has managed to get out."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0124",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3930s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0124",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0124",
      "start": 3930.26,
      "end": 3970.54,
      "time_label": "1:05:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, so Donna and Virgil wants to meet more of these sinners. And... This sinner says, well, they're all in hiding. And the demons are like, let's just start tearing this guy apart, because that's what we enjoy doing. And the sinner's like, no, no, no, if you leave me alone, I'll trick seven more to appear before you. Everyone's in hiding, so if you demons just hide yourself, then I will tell them to come out, and then you can catch seven more people to rip apart, okay? So this is the circle of fraud, circle of deception. We should be wary of everything people do here, okay? All right, keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0125",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=3972s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0125",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0125",
      "start": 3972.72,
      "end": 4026.62,
      "time_label": "1:06:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Line 106. At that, Cagnazzo lifted up his snout and shook his head and said, Just listen to that trick by which he thinks he can dive back. To this, he who was rich in artifice replied, Then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. This was too much for Alcino, and despite the others, he cried out, If you dive back, I should not try. I will not gallop after you, but beat my wings above the pitch. We'll leave this height with the embankment as a screen. We'll see if you alone can handle us. Oh, you who read, hear now of this new sport. Each turned his eye upon the other shore, he first who'd been most hesitant before. The Navarraze, in nick of time, had planted his feet upon the ground, and in an instant he jumped and freed himself from their commander. At this, each demon felt the prick of guilt, and most he who had led his band to blunder."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0126",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4026s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0126",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0126",
      "start": 4026.62,
      "end": 4077.5,
      "time_label": "1:07:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "So he took off and shouted, You are caught! But this could help him little. Wings were not more fast than fear. The sinner plunged right under. The other, flying up, lifted his chest. Not otherwise. The wild duck, when it plunges precipitously, when the falcon nears and then, exhausted, thwarted, flies back up. But Calcabrino, raging at the trick, flew after Alcino. He was keen to see the sinner free and have a brawl. And once the Navarraze had disappeared, he turned his talons on his fellow demon, and tangled with him just above the ditch. But Alcino clawed him well. He was indeed a full -grown kestrel, and both fell into the middle of the boiling pond. The heat was quick to disentangle them, but still there was no way they could get out. Their wings were stuck and meshed in glue like pitch. And"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0127",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4077s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0127",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0127",
      "start": 4077.5,
      "end": 4097.42,
      "time_label": "1:07:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Barbaruccia, grieving with the rest, sent forth to fly out toward the other shore of all their forts. And speedily enough, on this side and on that, they took their posts. And toward those two, stuck fast, already cooked beneath that crust, they stretched their grappling hooks. We left them still contending with that mess."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0128",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4097s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0128",
      "start": 4097.76,
      "end": 4129.39,
      "time_label": "1:08:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, all right. So this sinner, he tricks the demons, right? Says like, you know, if you leave me alone for a few seconds, I will bring you more sinners. And the demons believe him. And then the demon says, the sinner escapes. And the demons chase after him, and they fall into the pit. Okay, so there's a paradox here, right? The sinner has lied to the demons, but there's a paradox. What is the paradox? Do you guys remember what the paradox is? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0129",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4130s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0129",
      "start": 4130.45,
      "end": 4133.43,
      "time_label": "1:08:50",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "The demons are punished, but the sinner is not."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0130",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4134s",
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      "start": 4134.13,
      "end": 4232.26,
      "time_label": "1:08:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. Well, the demons are just being stupid, right? But there's a paradox. Why do demons believe him? There's a paradox here. Okay, you guys probably don't remember. Okay, but there's a rule in hell. The rule in hell is, if you're a soul being punished, whatever words you speak to Dante and Virgil must be true. You understand? You cannot lie to Virgil and Dante. That's the rule in hell. But clearly, the sinner has lied to the demons, right? So what's going on here? This is a contradiction. Okay, so let's think about this, okay? So the demons are saying, you're lying to us. And then the sinner says, then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. Is this a lie? What's he saying here? What's he saying here?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0131",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4240s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0131",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0131",
      "start": 4240.83,
      "end": 4243.89,
      "time_label": "1:10:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Like the demons are trying to hurt Dante and Virgil?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0132",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4244s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0132",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0132",
      "start": 4244.47,
      "end": 4308.06,
      "time_label": "1:10:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "No, no, no, no. No, I'm saying, what does this lie mean? Then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. Great. Let's go back. Yes? But it's true. He's not lying to you, okay? Do you understand? You just read what he writes, what he's speaking. It's not a lie technically. Do you understand? It's not a deception technically. You're just misinterpreting what he's saying, right? So let's go back to the example of like, you know, your friend takes you to the bazaar, right? And the bazaar shop owner says, this is the best teacup in the world. Then your friend's like, you're lying to us. And the shop owner says, if I'm lying to you, then I have no friends in the world. It could be true, okay? Do you understand? If I'm lying to you, I have no friends in the world, right? You interpret to say, okay, well then he's not lying to me."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0133",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4309s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0133",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0133",
      "start": 4309.66,
      "end": 4364.36,
      "time_label": "1:11:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "But it could be true, right? If I'm lying to you, I have no friends in the world. Do you understand? And this is what we call sophistry, right? Sophistry, right? You just think you're smarter than everyone else. You think that you know more than everyone else and you'll get away with everything. So you keep on doing it, okay? And so he's just playing tricks with words. Does it make sense? So he's not lying because you cannot lie in hell, but he's engaging in sophistry, okay? Constructive words to make you, to manipulate you. Does that make sense? All right, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0134",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4374s",
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      "start": 4374.57,
      "end": 4382.98,
      "time_label": "1:12:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Yes? How come he has the will to escape? Do people even think of escaping or just they think of suffering less in hell?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0135",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4383s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0135",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0135",
      "start": 4383.04,
      "end": 4423.74,
      "time_label": "1:13:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, yeah. So it's not the will to escape. It's a compulsion to prove you're smarter than everyone else. It's a compulsion to cheat other people. You understand? But the point is, all you're doing is you're cheating yourself, right? Because all you're doing is escaping into a grid of punishment. If you're just honest and stay where you are, you'll be fine. But you constantly want to escape. It's an addiction. Okay? Right? So the people who, at least accountants who steal from rich people, it's not necessarily they need the money. It's just like they enjoy cheating other people. Okay? All right. Countdown to 23."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0136",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4424s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0136",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0136",
      "start": 4424.7,
      "end": 4457.28,
      "time_label": "1:13:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Countdown to 23. Silent, alone, no one escorting us. We made our way. One went before, one after, as friars minor when they walk together. The press and fracas, made me think of Aesop, that fable where he tells about the mouse and frog. For near and nigh are not more close than are that fable and this incident. If you compare with care how each begins and then compare the endings that they share. And even as one thought springs from another, so out of that was still another born, which made the fear I felt before redouble."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0137",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4458s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0137",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0137",
      "start": 4458.15,
      "end": 4475.82,
      "time_label": "1:14:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, sorry. Can you Google Aesop's fable of the frog and the horse? Okay. I don't have it remembered. Okay. So frog and horse. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Frog and mouse. Yes. Yes. Okay. So can you read it for everyone? Yeah."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0138",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4481s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0138",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0138",
      "start": 4481.12,
      "end": 4519.98,
      "time_label": "1:14:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Story summary of Aesop's frog and mouse. A mouse first asked the frog for help with crossing a river to visit the frog's home. The frog agrees, but ties the mouse's leg to his own with a reed for safety. Halfway across, the frog, motivated by greed, for the mouse's food, tries to drown the mouse by diving down the surface. The mouse's dead body floats to the surface, still tied to the frog. A hawk sees the floating mouse, swoops down, and carries off both the mouse and the frog. So I guess the frog, being treacherous, ends up being prey as well for the hawk."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
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      "start": 4520.08,
      "end": 4534.24,
      "time_label": "1:15:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Sure. Okay. So this applies to the demons, right? The demons mean to swindle Don and Virgil, cheat him, but they get greedy, they want to catch more sinners, so they fall into their own trap. Okay? So, yeah. Okay. Let's see where I'm going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0140",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4537s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0140",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0140",
      "start": 4537.71,
      "end": 4588.71,
      "time_label": "1:15:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Line 13. I thought, because of us, they have been mocked, and this inflicted so much hurt and scorn that I am sure they feel deep indignation. If anger is to be added to their malice, they will hunt us down with more ferocity than any hound whose teeth have trapped a hare. I could already feel my hair curl up from fear and I looked back attentively while saying, Master, if you don't conceal yourself in me at once, they terrify me, those melebronche, they're after us. I so imagined them, I hear them now. And heed to me. Where I, a leaded mirror, I could not gather in your outer image more quickly than I have received your inner. For even now your thoughts have joined my own in both our acts and aspects. We are kin. With both our minds I've come to one decision. If that right bank is not extremely steep, we can descend into the other moat and so escape."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0141",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4588s",
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      "start": 4588.73,
      "end": 4638.67,
      "time_label": "1:16:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "From the imagined chase. He'd hardly finished telling me his plan when I saw them approach with outstretched wings not too far from keen on taking us. My guide snatched me up instantly just as the mother who's wakened from a war and catches sight of blazing flames beside her will lift her son and run without a stop. She cares more for the child than for herself, not pausing even to throw on a shift. And down the hard embankment's edge his back lay flat along the sloping rock that closes one side of the adjacent moat. He slid. No water ever ran so fast along a sluice to turn the wheels of a land mill, not even when its flow approached the paddles, as if my master raced down that embankment while bearing me with him upon his chest, just like a son and not like a companion."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0142",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4638s",
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      "start": 4638.67,
      "end": 4653.55,
      "time_label": "1:17:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "His feet had scarcely reached the bed that lies along the deep below than those ten demons were on the edge above us. But there was nothing to fear, for that high providence that willed the ministers of the Fistitch denies to all of them the power to leave it."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "start": 4678.29,
      "end": 4699.6,
      "time_label": "1:17:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Why is Dante writing this? I mean, it's gratuitous because God has already willed Dante to go to heaven, right? So obviously the demons cannot actually do anything to them. They're protected by God. So why is Dante actually writing this scene? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4699s",
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      "start": 4699.86,
      "end": 4702.18,
      "time_label": "1:18:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Maybe to show comradeship or something?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4702s",
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      "start": 4702.58,
      "end": 4746.4,
      "time_label": "1:18:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yeah, yeah, it's meant to make us understand and appreciate the growing relationship between Virgil and Dante, right? Because this is, this is like basically character building. It's meant to develop for us and help us understand the intimacy between Dante and Virgil, right? And the example is, let's just say you have two enemies, right? And they hate each other. Well, I guarantee you, if you were to dump these two guys who hate each other, who want to kill each other on a deserted island, they become best friends afterwards, right? So that's the idea here. So even though they are rivals, ultimately this journey will make them into best friends, okay? I'll keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4750s",
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      "start": 4750.73,
      "end": 4807.01,
      "time_label": "1:19:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "58. Below that point we found a painted people who moved about the lagging steps, encircled, weeping, with features tired and defeated. And they were dressed in cloaks with cows so low they fell before their eyes of that same cut that used to make the clothes for Clooney's monks. Outside these cloaks were gilded and they dazzled, but inside they were all of lead, so heavy that Frederick's capes were straw compared to them. A tiring mantle for eternity, we turn again as always to the left, along with them intent on their sad weeping. But with their weights, that weary people paced so slowly that we found ourselves among new company each time we took a step, at which I told my guide, please try to find someone whose name or deed I recognize. And while we walk, be watchful with your eyes. And one who'd taken in my Tuscan speech cried out behind us, stay your steps, oh you who hurry so along this darkened air."
    },
    {
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      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4807s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0147",
      "start": 4807.01,
      "end": 4857.6,
      "time_label": "1:20:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Perhaps you'll have from me that which you seek, at which my guide turned to me saying, wait and then continue following his pace. I stopped and I saw two whose faces showed their minds were keen to be with one. Both their loath and the tight path forced them to slow. When they came up they looked askance at me a long while and they uttered not a word until they turned to one another saying, the throbbing of his throat makes this one seem alive and if they're dead, what privilege lets them appear without the heavy mantle? Then they addressed me, Tuscan, you who come to this assembly of sad hypocrites, do not disdain to tell us who you are. I answered, where the lovely Arno flows, there I was born and raised in the great city. I'm with the body I have always had. But who are"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0148",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4857s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0148",
      "start": 4857.6,
      "end": 4916.39,
      "time_label": "1:20:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "you upon whose cheeks I see such tears distilled by grief and let me know what punishment it is that glitters so. And one of them replied, the yellow cloaks are of a lead so thick their heaviness makes us the balances beneath them creak. We both were jovial friars and Bolognese. My name is Catalano, Lauderingo was his and we were chosen by your city together for the post that's usually one man's to keep the peace and what we were is still to be observed around Gardingo. I then began, oh friars your misdeeds, but said no more because my eyes had caught once when crucified by three stakes on the ground. When he saw me that sinner writhed all over and he breathed hard into his beard with sighs. Serving that Fra Catalano said to me, that one impaled there whom you see counseled the Pharisees that it was prudent to let one man and not one nation suffer."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0149",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=4917s",
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      "start": 4917.19,
      "end": 4941.75,
      "time_label": "1:21:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Naked he has been stretched across the path as you can see and he must feel the weight of anyone who passes over him. Like torment in this ditch, afflicts both his father -in -law and others in that council, which for the Jews has seeded so much evil. Okay, so this is Caiaphas, who is the Pharisee, the high priest who condemned Jesus to death."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "start": 4942.07,
      "end": 4985.98,
      "time_label": "1:22:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "And so for his punishment, he is crucified to the ground and everyone just walks on him. This is the area of the hypocrites and the hypocrites are punished by wearing cloaks of lead. So like their movement is like really, really slow. Okay, they're burdened by these cloaks of lead. So let's think about this. What is hypocrisy? And why would you be punished walking all of eternity with cloaks of lead that are very heavy, so heavy that it hurts to walk? What is hypocrisy? Why do people engage in it? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 4986.14,
      "end": 4992.98,
      "time_label": "1:23:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "It is basically saying one thing and doing another. So you're pretending to be better than you are. So you put off this mask."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 4993.79,
      "end": 4996.09,
      "time_label": "1:23:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Right. And why do you do it?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "start": 4997.19,
      "end": 5003.53,
      "time_label": "1:23:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "To show that you're better than others, that you are airy and kind of like, I'm better than everybody else. I'm more religious."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 5006.12,
      "end": 5020.8,
      "time_label": "1:23:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. So what you're saying is that hypocrites, their words have no meaning and their words can change at any time. And they are not responsive to, they're not responsible to their words, right? So why do they do it?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "start": 5021.6,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yes? I think that they're cheating. They just pretend to be higher moral stuff. Just try to, on the one hand, you get a benefit from that. And on the other, they will try to cheat others so that they will get more. And they don't need to be punished. And they just hide themselves from, yeah."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 5042.02,
      "end": 5079.13,
      "time_label": "1:24:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. Well, let's say you're a teacher, okay? And you're telling your students, okay, we need to work hard and read a lot of books and exercise. Okay? And then your students, like a year later, they don't do anything, but they're like, you know, like, we want to work hard and exercise and read a lot of books. Why do they do that? Hmm? To please me, right? And so why would they do that? Yeah. What's the motivation?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0157",
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      "start": 5085.4,
      "end": 5098.9,
      "time_label": "1:24:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Like to pretend that you're better than who you actually are. And then you're very empty on the interior. And then the ultimate goal is to like get benefits by kind of like pretending to be like a better person."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 5099.02,
      "end": 5123.06,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then so you're basically you have to wear all those lies on yourself on your consciousness. Like you're like consciously because you know you're not actually doing what you're saying now that all these things that you didn't do but you say you did, they wear on you basically."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "source_class": "episode",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yeah. So like before you, there was nothing holding you down, right? You could say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want. You just choose to do it in order to just get by, right? Now you're being punished with this cloak of lead, okay? So does that make sense? Okay, good. All right, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "end": 5196.78,
      "time_label": "1:25:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Line 124. Then I saw Virgil stand amazed above that one who lay stretched out upon a cross so squalidly in his eternal exile. And he addressed the friar, in this way, if it does not displease you, if you may, tell us if there's some passage on the right that would allow the two of us to leave without our having to compel black angels to travel to the steep to get us out. He answered, closer than you hope, you'll find a rocky ridge that stretches from the great round wall and crosses all the savage valleys, except that here it's broken, not a bridge, but where it ruins slope along the bank and heap up at the bottom, you can climb. My leader stood a while with his sword, his head bent, then said, he who hooks sinners over there gave us a false account of this affair."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 5197.06,
      "end": 5202.34,
      "time_label": "1:26:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So Virgil recognized he's been lied to, like, duh, right? Keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0162",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5202s",
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      "start": 5202.58,
      "end": 5220.52,
      "time_label": "1:26:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "At which the friar, in Bologna, I once heard about the devil's many vices. They said he was a liar and a father of lies. And then my guide moved on with giant strides, somewhat disturbed with anger in his eyes. At this I left those overburdened spirits while following the prince of his dear feet."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 5220.74,
      "end": 5242.53,
      "time_label": "1:27:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So why would you trust the devil? What could lead someone to trust the devil? Pride, right? Does that make sense? Is there a Christian saying about this? No? Okay, all right, all right. Well, yeah. All right, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 5247.15,
      "end": 5297.38,
      "time_label": "1:27:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Council 24. In that part of the young year when the sun begins to warm its locks beneath Aquarius and nights grow shorter, equaling the days, when hoarfrost mimes the image of his white sister upon the ground, but not for long, because the pen he uses is not sharp, the farmer who is short of fodder rises and looks and sees the fields all white, at which he slaps his thigh, turns back into the house, and here and there complains, like some poor wretch who doesn't know what can be done and then goes out again and gathers up new hope on seeing that the world has changed its face in so few hours, and he takes his staff and hurries out his flock of sheep to pasture. So here we go. So did my master fill me with dismay when I saw how his brow was deeply troubled, yet then the plaster soothed the sore as quickly,"
    },
    {
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0165",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5297s",
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      "start": 5297.66,
      "end": 5348.76,
      "time_label": "1:28:17",
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      "text": "for soon as we were on the broken bridge, my guide turned back to me with that sweet manner I first had seen along the mountain space, and he examined carefully the ruin that having picked the way we would ascend, he opened his arms and thrust me forward, and just as he who ponders as he labors who's always ready for the step ahead, so as he lifted me up toward the summit of one great crag, he'd see another spur saying, that is the one you will grip next, but try it first to see if it is firm. That has no path for those with cloaks of lead, for he and I, he light, I would support, could hardly make it up from spur to spur. And were it not that down from this enclosure the slope was shorter than the bank before, I cannot speak for him, but I should surely have been defeated. But since"
    },
    {
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      "start": 5348.76,
      "end": 5404.28,
      "time_label": "1:29:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Malabolge runs right past me, into the mouth of its last well, the placement of each valley means it must have one bank high and have the other short, and so we reached at length, the jutting where the last stone of the ruined bridge breaks off. The breath within my lungs was so exhausted from climbing, I could not go on. In fact, as soon as I had reached that sore, I sat, stone, I sat. Now you must cast aside your laziness, my master said, for he who rests on down on or under covers, cannot come to fame. And he who spends his life without renown leaves such a vestige of himself on earth as smoke bequeaths to air or foam to water. Therefore, get up, defeat your breathlessness with spirit that can win all battles if the body's heaviness does not deter it. A longer ladder still is to be climbed. It's not enough to have left them behind."
    },
    {
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      "start": 5404.54,
      "end": 5407.1,
      "time_label": "1:30:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "If you have understood, now profit from it."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:30:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, I'm sure that you might have had a teacher, okay? Some of you might have had a teacher who has inspired you to greatness. And what your teacher said to you is, the reason why we are memorizing tests for like eight hours a day is to aspire to greatness, right? We suffer for 12 years, we lose our soul, we lose our individuality, but at the end of it, we will obtain immortality because we'll get into like Tsinghua or Harvard or Yale and then we'll be great, okay? What do you think of a teacher like that? There's quite a few teachers like that in China, but what's your impression of a teacher like that? I mean, he's not wrong, right? He or she is not wrong. And there are lots of students who are able to get into Tsinghua or Beidao or Yale or Harvard because of a teacher like that. But how do you feel about a teacher like that?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Have you had a teacher like that? And what's your impression? Yes?"
    },
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      "start": 5484.15,
      "end": 5501.15,
      "time_label": "1:31:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yeah, because as a teacher, you have to do a job well, and there's no teacher who said to students, come on, don't study, it's useless, right? Teacher always said you have to study better, harder, so that you would get more benefit, you know? The sweet always come after the bitterness, right? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 5501.93,
      "end": 5523.73,
      "time_label": "1:31:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "I literally just said that to my students last week, and I say to them all the time, honey, you'll get like six years of hell or 60 years of hell. And they were like, just six years. I'm like, okay, then work hard for the next six years in your middle school so you can get to a good, you know, undergraduate school, college, so that you can have more happiness, I guess, in the future."
    },
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      "text": "And I'm sure a lot of your students have succeeded, right? They've gone to like really top universities."
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      "text": "Yeah, they do better, yeah."
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      "text": "Right, right."
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      "text": "Achieved their full potential, I suppose."
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      "text": "Right, but let's hear some other perspectives, right? You're a teacher, right? And you've said that, yes?"
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      "text": "So back then I thought it was like completely normal and it is what I should be taught because of meritocracy. But right now I feel like we are just kind of in like an endless trap because after high school, you'll be told that, okay, you'll just have to work hard for four years and then you'll get into like a good grad school or like you'll get a good job. I feel like it's just kind of like an endless circle. And I feel like it's more of like the teachers are incapable of, you know, of motivating their students to like have like an inner drive to study hard so that they're teaching these sorts of ideas onto their students."
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      "text": "Did you agree with that?"
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      "text": "No, because I actually do believe in this narrative of if you work hard, you go to a good school, you actually have a better chance of getting into like top banking, you know, or whatever jobs that you want because they do filter your first degree, right? And so I actually do believe in this narrative. I think it's very puritan, very biblical. So Paul is always saying, let's, you know, strive for the goal that you have, you know, so you live your good life, so you get your reward in heaven. It's kind of the same narrative."
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      "text": "Okay, right."
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      "text": "I use, if a teacher tells me that, I know how much effort I need to put for their class because I mean this in the sense that if a teacher is really good at teaching, and really has a love for their subject, in classes, what they say is, oh my God, guys, chemistry is so amazing. It's so interesting. And it really piques my passion. So for that class, I put in the extra effort and I understand that that teacher understands my passion for the subject. But if a teacher tells me, you just need to do this to get to a good college, I know like that class, I'm not going to really learn anything. So I'm just going to put the amount of effort that's needed for me to get an A and just... But I guess for me, my understanding of education is not to get that job. It's to better yourself. And also learning is fun."
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      "text": "But if the teachers don't understand and take that perspective, I can't really convince them that. So it just... Okay, we understand."
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      "text": "Yes? Yeah, I think it's just not really about the aspect of hard work. I think, yes, obviously you need to do work hard, but it's more about the motivation behind it. And it's easier if you're motivated, obviously, to learn something that you're interested in. So if the teacher tells you, like she said, you know, you need to do this, or like I will teach this in a way that it makes it harder for you because you won't like it, or I'm going to teach this in a way that you will like it, then obviously it's easier to study. Okay, all right. So it's more about the motivation."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Okay, yes. I think logically it makes sense. This way of teaching, but it just assumes that this is the only important thing in life. Because you could get, say, a teacher who says, well, don't worry too much, but focus on your soul, your spirit, and be happy with your life. And then you get two different adults. You get one who's working in banking, earning a lot of money, but antidepressants, not happy with their life. And then you get one who didn't work that hard, didn't make it to that college, but maybe they still had a family and they're happy."
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      "text": "Yes, okay. Thank you. Yes."
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      "text": "I see this narrative as a way of blinding yourself for better outcomes. Same as like a horse can have the thing on the side just to move faster. So you don't really see why you're doing it, but it's just a way to have better outcomes. So you're like, okay, let me blind myself for the next like three years. And I know that when I open my eyes, it's going to be just better."
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      "text": "Okay, thank you. Yes. It is a white lie that has been perpetuated from generation to generation. It is, I think, it is the purpose of the white lie that is more important than the content and the truthfulness. It is sometimes comparable to a beautiful wrapping of a gift. You know, it might be just a wrapping, but when you unpack it, you still want to, you know, look at the beautiful wrapping and appreciate it. But it really depends on the audience. A bad audience might, you know, be obsessed with it and might have some, you know, very tragic result. Okay, good. Yes."
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      "text": "I think the problem with education, especially public school education in China, is that the students don't know why they're learning. They think the reason why they are learning is because they need to do it to get to a good high school and to get to a good college, to get to a good job. But that's like the most boring reason for why you learn. Like if teachers taught students why you learn is because it's fun and it's interesting and it's amazing and it's actually very, it's like if you actually teach people why learning is fun and interesting, then therefore students realize that like in life, they don't need to work towards a goal. They can just, you know, strive towards enjoying the journey. Okay."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yeah. It's a great discussion, but you have the last word. Okay. Then we'll continue. Yes. Okay. Yes."
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      "text": "Sorry, I have to put out the counter argument that if we prime education to be something fun of self -discovery, of passion and love, you'll realize that learning is anti -human, just like exercising. Like in a way it is, you know, it is good for you, but, you know, to eat salad every day and to exercise, be an athlete, you know, be a great achiever will take pain, will take a bit of, you know, suffering. So when everything is fun driven and passion driven, what if you have passion for chemistry, but not for physics? Or like the teacher try to invoke passion in you, but it's hard because you, you are just a chemistry person, not a physics or not a math or Chinese, you know, language arts person. Then you will lose like, oh, then, you know, physics or chemistry is my, you know, passion. And that's the only thing I'm going to learn well, then the rest of it, it's like, whatever."
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      "text": "Then I think it's a better to have a narrative, like, yeah, the other subjects are not as fun, but they are equally as important for your future to, you know."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0192",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5922s",
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      "start": 5922.26,
      "end": 5980.682,
      "time_label": "1:38:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yeah. So just for some context, for those who are watching on the live stream, who do not know the Chinese system, the Chinese system, it, at the end of high school, everyone takes a comprehensive examination that tests six subjects. So you can have a great love of math, but if you don't do well in English, you're really, really screwed. Okay. It's comprehensive. So it's not just about passion. It's about like discipline. You have to like do well on all six subjects. Okay. So let's continue. Okay. Now, what Virgil says to Dante is, cast aside your laziness, because what we're trying to achieve is eternal fame. If you want to be the greatest poet in the world, you have to work a lot harder. What could Virgil say instead to motivate Dante? And it'd be a lot more effective by the way. Exactly right. What is Dante doing right now? Right? He's trying to get to Beatrice."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0193",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=5980s",
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      "start": 5980.682,
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      "time_label": "1:39:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Beatrice came to Virgil and says like, I want to see Dante again, bring him to me. Right? That's what Virgil's mission is. To take Dante to Beatrice. Right? So what Virgil should be saying to Dante is, Beatrice is waiting for us. Let's get there as soon as possible. And that's going to motivate, uh, Beatrice, Dante a lot more than like, Hey, everlasting fame, man. That's what we want. Okay. So it shows you psychology, the Virgil psychology. Okay. And that, and that's why this is a great work of literature because Virgil is a real person, right? He's just, he's not just a plot device. He has his own motivations. He has his own psychology. He has his own worldview. All right. All right. Uh, let, let, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=6026s",
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      "start": 6026.9,
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      "time_label": "1:40:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Line 58. Then I arose and showed myself far better equipped with breath than I had been before. Go on for I'm strong and confident. We took our upward way upon the ridge with cracks, more jagged, narrow, difficult, and much more steep than we had crossed before. I spoke as we went on, not to seem weak at this, a voice came from the ditch beyond a voice that was not suited to form words. I know not what he said, although I was already at the summit of the bridge that crosses there. And yet he seemed to move. I bent that I had bent downward, but my living eyes cannot see the bottom through that dark at which I said, Oh master, can we reach the other belt? Let us descend the wall for as I hear and cannot understand. So I see down, but can distinguish nothing. The only answer that I give to you is doing it."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=6075s",
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      "start": 6075.81,
      "end": 6132.44,
      "time_label": "1:41:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "He said, just request is to be met in silence by the, by the act. We then climbed down the bridge just at the end where it runs right into the eighth embankment. And now the moat was plain enough to me. And there within, I saw a dreadful swarm of serpents, so extravagant and form remembering them. So it drains my blood from me. Let Libya boast no more about her sands, or if she breathes, Kelly, Jack, Cooley, Shen, Chris with emphasis, Bina, Paray. She never showed with all of Ethiopia or all the land that borders the Red Sea. So many such malignant pestilences among this cool and depressing swarm ran people who were naked, terrified with no hope of a whole or heliotrope. Their hands were tied behind by serpent. These had thrust their head and tail right through the loins and then were not on the other side. And there a serpent sprang"
    },
    {
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0196",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=6132s",
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      "start": 6132.44,
      "end": 6188.95,
      "time_label": "1:42:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "with force at one who stood upon our shore, transfixing him just where the neck and shoulders from a knot. No O or I has ever been transcribed so quickly as that soul caught fire and burned, and as he fell, completely turned to ashes. And when he lay undone upon the ground, the dust of him collected by itself and instantly returned to what it was. Just so it is asserted by great sages that when it reaches its 500th year, the Phoenix dies and then is born again. Lifelong, it never feeds on grass or grain, only on drops of incense and amamum. Its final winding sheets are nard and myrrh. And just as he who falls and knows not how, by demon's force that drags him to the ground, or by some other hindrance that binds man, who, when he rises, stares about him, all bewildered by the heavy anguish he has suffered, sighing as he looks around, so did the sinner stare when he arose."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=6189s",
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      "start": 6189.27,
      "end": 6244.53,
      "time_label": "1:43:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Oh, how severe it is, the power of God, that, as its vengeance showers down such blows. My guide then asked that sinner who he was. To this he answered, not long since I reigned from Tuscany into this savage maw. Mew that I was the beast, your life pleased me and not the man. I'm vani foo chief, beast, and the den that suited me, fistoya. And I to Virgil, tell him not to slip away and ask what sin has thrust him here. I knew him as a man of blood and anger. The sinner heard, and did not try to feign, but turned his mind and face intent toward me, and coloring with miserable shame, he said, I suffer more because you've caught me in this, the misery you see, than I suffered when taken from the other life. I can't refuse to answer what you ask. I'm"
    },
    {
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      "start": 6244.53,
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      "time_label": "1:44:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "set down so far because I robbed the sacristy of its fair ornament, and someone else was falsely blamed for that. But lest the sight give you doubt, lest you be too much delight if you can ever leave these lands of darkness, open your ears to my announcement. Here, fistoya first will strip herself of black, then Florence will renew her men and manners. From mal di margara, Mars will draw a vapor which turbid clouds will try to wrap. The clash between them will be fierce, impetuous, a tempest fought upon Campo Piceno until that vapor, vigorous, vigorous, shall crack the mist and every wight be struck by it. And I have told you this to make you grieve."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:44:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. All right. So we are pretty far down in Inferno. And here in the circle of fraud, we now meet thieves. Okay. Can I ask you a question? I mean like we've been through Inferno. We were in a circle of violence. We met people like Alexander the Great. And yeah, you can come, you can make the argument that Alexander the Great is a terrible, terrible person because he commits genocide against a lot of people. Okay. And he started wars for no real reason except for his own glory. Darius, the King of Persia offered him many, many bribes in order to not stop, to not stop fighting. And his Ed man told him like, let's just take the bribes. Okay. Yet at the same time, this thief, um, he's a lot lower in Inferno than a great conqueror like Alexander the Great who killed a lot of people. Why is thievery so bad? Why?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "1:45:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Why is thievery so evil as it warrants such a low status in, in hell? Right. And also like if someone's stealing, it's often, because maybe they need the money, right? Maybe if my child is hungry, I'm going to go steal some, something from other people, right? Have you guys seen the movie, the bicycle thief? A very good Italian movie, right? And if you haven't, it's a really good movie, but it's just this guy who's a very normal guy. This is like post -war Italy, absolutely no money. And he has to feed his kid. So he goes, steals a bicycle. And then he's, you know, becomes a villain. And society around him. So why is thievery such a sin? Yes."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "1:46:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "I think in like the biblical terms, the, the 10 sins, the greatest 10 sins you can commit, was like the first few was against God, like using God's name in vain and have other gods and all that. And then the rest, it was like, do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not sin, like steal, do not covet. But all of these, the rest of the five sins were all summarized into coveting, which is taking others things, like taking other's wife is adultery. You know, lying to others is taking the truth away. And then there were other things. So it was all summarized into thief."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:47:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So it was not a big deal, right? Because like the one, the one, the one is like, do not, you know, worship other idols. Do not."
    },
    {
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      "text": "The first few was about against God."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "And those are really bad, right? But like adultery and like,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "it was like, oh yeah. But the principle behind adultery and all the other things were all summarized into."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Right. So, so, so in the, the 10 commandments, there's this hierarchy, right? And so like, so like stealing is actually pretty low. Whereas here in inferno, it's actually pretty serious, right? So that, that's a paradox. Yes. Did you raise your hand? Okay. All right. Right. Did you understand? There's a paradox here. Why is killing a lot of people not as bad as stealing from one person, right? And, and the crime, the sin was this guy, he steals from a church and then someone else was blamed for it. He got away. And then he burned in hell, right? So he stole someone else was blamed. And now he's burning in hell. And the punishment is like, they all get bitten by snakes and then they die. And then if they do resurrect and he had been bitten by more stakes, right? So this is a paradox for us. Yes."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:48:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "One reason, you know, in criminology or in law and economics, uh, you know, the punishment is sometimes, uh, married, uh, apartment, uh, is calculated partially by the, um, the, the ability of the society to find the crime. If a crime is very hard to find, to be observed, then the department must be multiplied by the crime. The crime is not the factor of this hiddenness. So slavery, uh, and all this, uh, fraud is more, uh, uh, damning or more, more, uh, difficult, more difficult to be, to be fined by open killing, killing or other, uh, crime against humanity with, although it's, it's a high, high near quiet, it is, uh, easy to be, to be discerned by the judge. If there is a judge. Okay."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:49:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. Okay. That makes sense. But God knows everything, right? So you can't, you can never hide your crime from God. Uh, yes. Yes."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "I wonder if, uh, I haven't done any, any research on, on natural law and what Aristotle or Aristotle or, or, uh, Augustine would say about it, but animals, animals, kill animals, rape each other. Animals don't, don't put up with animals stealing from one another. They will like, they, they will find a sense of harmony. So I wonder if it goes not against discernment, just God laws, but it goes against natural laws as well."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "That's a very good point. Okay. Like animals take stealing very, very seriously. They're very, they're very protective of their own property. Yes. Okay. Uh, yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 6631.77,
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      "time_label": "1:50:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Because thievery affects, uh, the person who's been thieved capacity to love and trust, uh, in the future. Like maybe for example, say you're a very generous person. Usually you leave, you used to leave your house open and then you get robbed one time. Then you're going to be very suspicious of all your neighbors. Uh, you're going to lock all your doors. And if you extrapolate this on society, why it kills kind of kill society."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yes. Does that make sense to you? Okay. The problem with thievery is not the stealing. The fact is that it's so no one knows who did it. So then you, you have to like suspect everyone, right? The problem is not that he stole and it's not even like what he stole. The problem is like he got away with it. That's why thieves are worse than, than everyone else because they often get away with it. It's so secretive. It's so shadowy. Like it, no one knows who did it. Right. Yes. Is it, didn't you just say that God knows everything?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "1:51:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Right. And God will punish you for it. But I'm saying like, what, what is the effect on society? Uh, okay. Yeah. But it's not a sin against God or it's not, it's not a direct sin against God. It's a sin against society."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Right. But for Dante, um, society is what enables us to truly love God. Okay. So our society, we, we, we couldn't actually function. Okay. Does that make sense? So what matters is, you know, to live a life of faith, hope, and love. And you're going to do that in society, right? You can't do that by yourself. You can't. So, so the society, the social fabric is what's important. It must hold together. So, and that's the logic here. Does that make sense? Okay. All right. Uh, yes."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:52:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Yeah. And I also feel like while the thieves are like deceiving the others through like stealing, they're also kind of like deceiving themselves. For example, like you mentioned earlier, what if they are poor and, and they're uncapable of like, um, for example, feeding your kid, I feel like with the act of stealing, they're also like kind of like, um, finding like, uh, forgiving themselves for not reaching their full potential because there are definitely other ways for them to like get through the problem."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "1:52:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. Yeah. So again, the punishment is these guys, these thieves are being bitten by snakes, right? Which kills them. Well, that's a metaphor for what they do in society, right? These, there are snakes. No one, no one can see them. Um, they're very slippery and they steal from other people. But what they don't recognize is that it's a sting. It's something that, um, imprints itself on people and people can never forget it. And it makes them, as you point out, just constantly thinking about who stole this, right? And then what they're going to do is they're often going to blame someone else and it's going to be the wrong person, right? So that's, and, and the metaphor is the snake bite, right? A venomous treacherous snake. Okay. Yes."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:53:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yeah. I agree with you, Professor, because, uh, in, in, uh, Genesis, right? Uh, the Eva, just Adam, just steal the fruit, the wisdom fruit, right? From the, from the tray. So I think that is why the God feel really angry about them. Try to condemn them. That's a good point, right?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 6841.32,
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      "time_label": "1:54:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "The snake appears in the serpent appears in, um, Genesis. This cannot be a coincidence, right? It's clearly referring to first society, one of trust between God and Adam and Eve and the snake convinced them to, uh, disobey God and break that trust, that bond between God. Okay. Clearly there's a reference to Genesis here. Okay. Great. Okay. Let's, uh, yes."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "1:54:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Um, I noticed like in line one Oh eight, the resurrection of the sinners is compared to the Phoenix, but I thought the Phoenix is like a quite positive metaphor. So I wonder why sinners are compared to Phoenix."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Um, so in poetry, um, we use a lot of metaphors and similes. It's not really about what's positive, what's negative. It's really about showing you visually what's going on. Right? So, so the idea is the visual depiction of rising from the ashes, right? You're killed, but then you rise again. And then the snake bites you again. And it's kind of silly because like you already know, like you've been through this a million times, but the snake is always able to sneak up on you and kill you. Okay. So, so it's a metaphor. Um, and it's, and it doesn't, it doesn't really care of it. A judgment. All right. Uh, let's keep on reading."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Inferno. Conto 25. When he had finished with his words, the thief raised high, his fist was both fixed, cocked and cried. Take that. Oh God, I square them off for you. From that time on, those serpents were my friends for one of them coiled. Then around his neck, as if to say, I'll have you speak no more. Another wound about, about his arms and bound him again and wrapped itself in front so firmly. He could not even make them budge."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Why does he hate God so much? He curses God, right? And he's, I see the only person we seen in front of that curse is God, right? Why? Yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "So we said before that the effects of theory is so big on society, but it is kind of one of those crimes that if you're the one doing the thievery, maybe to you, it doesn't seem that bad. So you, you might feel that you're being unjustly punished, right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. Um, why don't you think it's a bad thing or it's not that you think,"
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      "text": "don't think it's a bad thing, but how you, when you do it, you probably don't realize how bad it is. Like we've had the examples before about like the Robin hood kind of analogy, you know, you just take the bike or something like that. So you don't think it's that bad, but then you realize in the inferno, you're in such a bad place, right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So let's see all this. Okay. He steals a lot of things from the church and someone else's blame, right? When someone else is blamed, how does he feel? How, how would he feel?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Guilty. You'd feel at least that for the other person."
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0228",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7053s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0228",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0228",
      "start": 7053.11,
      "end": 7108.45,
      "time_label": "1:57:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "He's pretty ecstatic, man. Okay. Right. Because not only has he gotten away with it, but now he's completely innocent. Do you understand? So he's like the perfect crime and who screwed it up for him? God screwed up for him. Okay. So now he's pissed about this. He's like, Oh my God, I had all planned out. It's a perfect crime. Um, and I thought that I, I get away with it. And then God had to intervene. Okay. So he's really angry about this. Okay. Does that make sense? All right. So we'll continue after the break. Um, but an announcement, um, is that on Thursday we start class earlier. We start class at nine o 'clock. Okay. So try to come at about eight 50. And then we'll get back to you. And the reason why is we have a special guest joining us. Uh, professor David Bromwich, who's starting professor of English at Yale. He's joining us live from new Haven."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0229",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7108s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0229",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0229",
      "start": 7108.65,
      "end": 7146.65,
      "time_label": "1:58:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "It's a rare treat for, for us. It will be live stream to, to everyone. Um, and what he's going to do is he's going to talk about Shakespeare. And then we're gonna, we're gonna talk about Dante. We're going to compare and contrast Shakespeare with Dante. Okay. So, um, he's obviously one of world's foremost experts on Shakespeare. And we are obviously one, obviously experts on Dante already. So it will be a very lively discussion. Okay. So something, something that'll be really fun. Uh, so please come about eight 50. We'll start at nine o 'clock properly and we'll go for about an hour. Okay. So, um, yep. Yep."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0230",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7146s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0230",
      "start": 7146.75,
      "end": 7150.92,
      "time_label": "1:59:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "So then are we doing like a three hour morning? Yeah."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0231",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7150s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0231",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0231",
      "start": 7150.96,
      "end": 7227,
      "time_label": "1:59:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Three hour morning. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right guys. Enjoy your lunch. We'll come back. Okay. Okay. So, an issue that we had this morning, which is why is thievery much worse, a sin than genocide. Okay. So an example is you have accident, the great who for his own vanity and glory, he decided to go conquer the Persian empire in the process. He kills millions of people. Okay. At least a million, possibly 10 million. Um, so a million dies and then you have a thief who, who, who steals a holy relic and then someone else is blamed. Okay. And as we discussed, what this does is it destroys trust and cohesion in the community. Okay. But still, even if this was a large community, it would only be about a thousand people. Okay. It would only be about a thousand people. So we have this strange paradox where for Dante, uh, the thief, by impacting a thousand people, it's a worse sin than accident, the great killing a million people."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0232",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7227s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0232",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0232",
      "start": 7227.14,
      "end": 7291.05,
      "time_label": "2:00:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. And how do we reconcile this paradox? And that's why it's important to read paradise first, because without reading paradise, it is impossible to reconcile this paradox. There's certain aspects here that, um, explain, uh, the difference. First is the idea of immortality of the soul. And that's something that Beatrice will tell Dante that the soul is immortal. It's eternal. It can never die off. If your body dies off, your soul will still, um, be around. Then, uh, what we also learn is that the soul aspires to return to God. Okay. The soul, it's greatest desire. It's greatest happiness is to be with God. All right. The soul returns to God. We also learn that what allows us to return to God is the idea of faith, hope, and trust. And love. Okay. All right. So once you understand these three principles, then it's, then we can understand how this works."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0233",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7291s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0233",
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      "start": 7291.47,
      "end": 7346.86,
      "time_label": "2:01:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "The million people die. It's not a big deal. They lose their bodies to come back later on, but there's a thousand people who, uh, feel betrayed, who are suspicious of each other. It's not impossible for them to live a life of faith, hope, and love. And in fact, it will probably, um, make them more likely to sin. Okay. So now they're moving away from God. Okay. So, um, it's not the absolute numbers that matter. It's how people choose to live the lives that matter. And the sin, the worst possible sin is treachery in a way that, uh, forces other people to commit treachery as well. All right. To force you away from God. Does this make sense guys? Okay. All right. Okay. Let's, let's, let's continue."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0234",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7353s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0234",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0234",
      "start": 7353.35,
      "end": 7416.785,
      "time_label": "2:02:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Canto 25, um, verse, let's see, 10. Pistoia, ah, Pistoia, must you last? Why not decree yourself incineration since you surpass your seed and wickedness? Throughout the shadowed circles of deep hell, I saw no soul against God so rebel, not even he who fell from Theban walls. He fled and could not say another word. And then I saw a sensual, full of anger shouting, where is he? Where's that bitter one? I do not think Maremma has the number of snakes that centaur carried on his haunch until the part that takes our human form upon his shoulders and behind his nape. There lay a dragon with its wings outstretched. It sets ablaze all those, its intercepts. My master said that centaur there is Cacus who often made a lake of blood within a grotto underneath Mount Aventine. He does not ride the same road as his brothers because he stole and most deceitfully from the great herd nearby."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0235",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7416s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0235",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0235",
      "start": 7416.785,
      "end": 7478.52,
      "time_label": "2:03:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "His crooked deeds, his crooked deeds ended beneath the club of Hercules who may have given him a hundred blows, but he was not alive to feel the tenth. While he was talking, so Cacus ran by and just beneath our ledge, three souls arrived, but neither I nor my guide noticed them until they had cried out. And who are you? At this, the words we shared were interrupted, and we attended only to those spirits. I did not recognize them, but it happened, as chance will usually bring about, that one of them called out the other's name, exclaiming, where was Chianpha left behind? At this, so that my guide might be alert, I raised my finger up from chin to nose. If, reader, you're slow now to believe what I shall tell, that is no cause for wonder, for I, who saw it, can accept it. As I kept my eyes fixed upon those sinners, a serpent with six feet springs out against one of the three and clutches him completely."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0236",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7479s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0236",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0236",
      "start": 7479.47,
      "end": 7531.99,
      "time_label": "2:04:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "It gripped his belly with his middle feet and with its forefeet grappled his two arms, and then it sank its teeth in both his cheeks. It stretched its rear feet out along his thighs and ran its tail along between the two, then straightened it again behind his loins. No ivy ever gripped a tree so fast as when that harp, a horrifying monster, clasped and intertwined the other's limbs with its. Then, just as their substance were warm wax, they stuck together, and they mixed their colors, so neither seemed what had been seen before, yet been before. Just as, when paper's kindled, where it still has not caught flame in full, its color's dark though not yet black while white is dying off. The other two souls stared, and each one cried, Ah, me and yellow, how you change, just see, you're already neither two nor one."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0237",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7532s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0237",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0237",
      "start": 7532.45,
      "end": 7592.59,
      "time_label": "2:05:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Then two heads were already joined in one, when in one face where two had been dissolved, two intermingled shapes appeared to us. Two arms came into being from four lengths, the thighs and legs, the belly and the chest became such limbs as never had been seen, and every former shape was canceled there, that perverse image seemed to share in both, and none in so, and slowly it moved on. Just as the lizard, when it darts from hedge to hedge, beneath the dog's days, giant lash, seems, if it crossed one's path, a lightning flash. So seemed a blazing little serpent, moving against the bellies of the other two, as black and livid as a peppercorn. Attacking one of therm, it pierced right through the part where we first take our nourishment, and then it fell before him at full length. The one it had transfixed, stared, but said nothing. In fact, he only stood his ground and yawned, as one whom sleep or fever has undone."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0238",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7592s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0238",
      "start": 7592.91,
      "end": 7648.54,
      "time_label": "2:06:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "The serpent stared at him, he at the serpent, one through his wound, the other through his mouth, where smoking violently their smoke met. Let Lucan now be silent, where he sings of sad Sabilus and Assiduous, and wait to hear what flies off from my bow. Let Ovid now be silent, where he tells of Cadmus Arethusa, if his verse had made of one a serpent, one a fountain. I do not envy him, he never did transmute two natures face to face, so that both forms were ready to exchange their matter. These were the ways they answered to each other. The serpent split its tail into a fork, the wounded sinner drew his steps together, the legs and then the thighs, along with them so fastened to each other that the juncture soon left no sign that was discernible. Meanwhile, the cleft"
    },
    {
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0239",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7648s",
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      "start": 7648.54,
      "end": 7706.72,
      "time_label": "2:07:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "tail took upon itself the fork, the other gradually lost, its skin grew soft, the other skin grew hard. I saw the arms that drew in at its armpits, and also saw the monster's two short feet grow long for just as much as those were shortened. The serpent's hind feet, twisted up together, became the member that man hides, just as the wretch put out two hind pods from his member. And while the smoke veils each with a new color and now breeds hair upon the skin of one, just as it strips the hair from off the other. The one rose up, the other fell, and they never turned aside their impious eye -lamps beneath which each of them transformed his snout. He who stood up drew his back toward the temples, and from the excess matter growing there came years upon the cheeks that had been bare. Whatever had not been pulled back but kept superfluous then made his face a nose and thickened out his lips appropriately."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0240",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7707s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0240",
      "start": 7707.54,
      "end": 7765.68,
      "time_label": "2:08:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "He who was lying down thrust out his snout, and even as the snail hauls in its horns he drew his ears straight back into his head. His tongue, which had before been whole and fit for speech, now cleaves. The other's tongue, which had been forked, now closes up, and the smoke stops. The soul that had become an animal, now hissing, hurried off along the valley. The other one behind him speaks and spits. And then he turned aside his new -made shoulders and told the third soul, I'd have Boasso run on all fours down this road as I have done. And so I saw the seventh ballast change and re -change. May the strangeness plead for me if there has been some confusion in my pen. And though my eyes were somewhat blurred, my mind bewildered, those three sinners did not flee so secretly that I could not perceive Puccio Giancato clearly."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0241",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7766s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0241",
      "start": 7766.1,
      "end": 7776.94,
      "time_label": "2:09:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "He who was the only soul who had not been changed among the three companions we had met at first, the other one made you, Gavile, grieve."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "start": 7777.06,
      "end": 7847.31,
      "time_label": "2:09:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, so these sinners are here because they committed identity theft, they're imposters, they pretend to be someone else, okay? It's like credit card fraud. And again, this goes back to the idea that the lower we go, the more these people are destroying their trust of society and society's capacity to function cohesively, okay? That's why they're being punished like this. And their punishment is fitting because they're constantly being changed, right? Snakes take over their bodies and then dissipates their soul, then they're resurrected and then snakes take over their souls again, okay? So, but what is unusual about this canto is Dante spends a lot of time in the description, right? Dante is usually very economical. He spends maybe a tercet and then he moves on. Here we have an entire canto talking about the metamorphosis. Why would he do that? Again, I don't actually know the answer. I'm just pointing this out, right?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0243",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=7847s",
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      "start": 7847.31,
      "end": 7871.38,
      "time_label": "2:10:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "This is unusual for Dante. He's usually very succinct, very economical, very terse, and now he's spending a lot of time going in detail over the metamorphosis. Why would he do that? Any speculations? Again, I don't know the answer. I just want to speculate. Any possibilities?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Maybe he wants to contrast this with Heaven, where the scheme is grandiose and extremely expansive and unlimited. Here he wants to go to the reverse, to look at things under a microscope and to give you a sense of depth or whatever. Give you a sense of restriction or the opposite of Heaven."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. That's a possibility. Okay. Great contrast. Yes. Any other possibilities? Yes."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "text": "I think depicting these sinners metamorphosizing is a reflection of them getting less and less human because of the sin they've done."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yes. Right. Any other possibilities? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Maybe he's just trying to prove that he can write about metamorphosis as good as Ovid can."
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      "text": "Yeah, that's a very interesting idea, right? Because there are certain poets that Dante admires. Virgil is definitely among the top, but there's also Ovid and Lucan, okay? And he does mention Ovid and Lucan in this canto. So you're right. Maybe he is trying to prove that he can just be as good as Ovid. Yes."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "And also in the Bible, in the book of Revelations, which is the last book of the Bible, John wrote a lot of visions about what he saw about angels and the last day. So maybe he's kind of doing that same thing as well to show that I have divine intervention. I have this vision about what's in Hell, just like John had an idea of what's in Heaven."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "end": 8054.82,
      "time_label": "2:13:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Excellent. Okay, right. So we're approaching Lucifer, right? We're approaching the inner core of Lucifer. And maybe what he's trying to do is convey a sense of fear and dread, right? He's trying to evoke fear and dread in us because as we're reading this, we visualize what's happening to this human becoming a serpent. And if you think about it, it's very hard not to be afraid, right? This is almost like a horror movie now, right? This metamorphosis. I'm not sure if you've seen the movie The Fly, right? Where this guy turns into a fly. It's pretty disgusting. It's pretty scary. Don't watch it. Yeah. Okay? Yeah, but the idea of metamorphosis, right? That we can lose our human form and become something else. That's actually very, very scary. And it's hard to think of something even more scary than that idea. And maybe he's using that in order to evoke a sense of fear and dread as we approach the inner sanctums of Hell."
    },
    {
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      "start": 8055.22,
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      "time_label": "2:14:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Great. These are all great suggestions, okay? All right. Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Canto 26. Be joyous, Florence. You're great indeed. For overseeing land you beat your wings. Through every part of Hell your name extends. Among the thieves I found, five citizens of yours and such. That shame has taken me. With them you can ascend to no high honor. But if the dreams dreamt close to dawn are true, then little time will pass before you feel what Prado and the others crave for you. Were that already come, it would not be too soon. And let it come. Since it must be, as I grow older, it will be more heavy."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. All right. So here Dante is referencing the prophetic tradition, okay? He is spelling doom for Florence. He's like, Florence, you guys should be proud because you have more members of Florence in Hell than anyone else, okay? This is a great achievement and God's going to punish you. Okay. Keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Verse 10. Were that already come, it would not be too soon. And let it come, since it must be. As I grow older, it will be more heavy. We left that deep, and by protruding stones that served as stairs for our descent before, my guide climbed up again and drew me forward. And as we took our solitary path among the ridges, jaggots, spurs, and rocks, our feet could not make way without our hands. It grieved me then and now grieves me again when I direct my mind to what I saw. And more than usual, I curb my talent that had not run where virtue does not guide, so that if my kind star or something better has given me that gift, I not abuse it. As many as the fireflies, the peasant, while resting on a hillside in the season when he who lights the world least hides its face, just when the fly gives"
    },
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      "text": "way to the mosquito, sees glimmering below down the valley there where perhaps he gathers grapes and tills. So many were the flames that glittered in the eighth abyss. I made this out as soon as I had come to where one sees the bottom. Even as he who was avenged by bears saw, as it left Elijah's chariot, its horses rearing, rising right to heaven, when he could not keep track of it except by watching one lone flame in its ascent, just like a little cloud that climbs on high, so through the gullet of that ditch each flame must make its way. No flame displays its prey, though every flame has carried off a sinner. I stood upon the bridge, and leaned straight out to see, and if I had not gripped a rock I should have fallen off without a push. My guide, who noted how intent I was, told me, within those fires there are souls, each one is swathed in that which scorches him."
    },
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      "text": "My master, I replied, on hearing you I am more sure, but I had already thought that it was so, and I had meant to ask, who is within the flame that comes so twined above that which scorches him? He said it would seem to rise out of the pyre Etiocles shared with his brother. He answered me, within that flame Ulysses and Diomedes suffer, they who went as one to rage now share one punishment, and there together in their flame they grieve over the horse's fraud that caused a breach, the gait that let Rome's noble seed escape. There they regret the guile that makes the dead Didymia still lament Achilles, and there for the palladium they pay. If they can speak within those sparks, I said, I pray you and repray and master, may my prayer be worth a thousand pleas. Do not forbid my waiting"
    },
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      "text": "here until the flame with horns approaches us, for you can see how out of my desire I bend toward it."
    },
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      "text": "Okay. So, Dante never read Homer. So he never read the Iliad and the Odyssey. And so his conception of, Ulysses, comes from other writers. And, Ulysses, he's, he's imprisoned in a flame. He's been burned in a flame with Diomedes. And the reason why they're being punished is the two came up with the idea of the Trojan horse. This treachery, this deception that allowed the Greeks to destroy the Trojans, forcing the Trojans to go to Rome, to found the Roman Empire. Okay. All right. Let's, let's keep on going."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:19:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Line 70. Line 70. And he to me, what you have asked is worthy of every praise, therefore I favor it. I only ask you this, refrain from talking. Let me address them. I have understood what you desire of them. Since they were Greek, perhaps they'd be disdainful of your speech. And when my guide, a judge, the flame had reached a point where time and place were opportune, this was the form I heard his words assume. You two who move as one within the flame, if I deserved a few while I still lived, if I deserved a few much or a little when in the world I wrote my noble lines, do not move on. Let one of you retell where, having gone astray, he found his death. The greater horn within that ancient flame began to sway and tremble, murmuring just like a fire that struggles in the wind. And then he waved his flame"
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      "text": "to back and forth as if it were a tongue that tried to speak and flung toward us a voice that answered. When I sailed away, from Circe, who had beguiled me to stay more than a year there near Gaeta, before Aeneas gave that place a name, neither my fondness for my son nor pity for my old father, nor the love I owed Penelope, which would have gladdened her, was able to defeat in me the longing I had to gain experience of the world and of the vices and the worth of men. Therefore I set out on the open sea with but one ship in that small company of those who never had deserted me. I saw, as far as Spain, as far as Morocco, along both shores, I saw Sardinia and saw the other islands that sea bathes. And I and my companions were already old and slow. When we approached the narrows where Hercules"
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      "time_label": "2:20:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "set up his boundary stones that men might heed and never reach beyond, upon my right I had gone past Seville and on the left already past Ceuta. Brothers, I said, O you who have crossed a hundred thousand dangers, reach the west to this brief waking. Time that still is left unto your senses. You must not deny experience of that which lies beyond the sun and of the world that is unpeopled. Consider well the seat that gave you birth you were not made to live your lives as brutes but to be followers of worth and knowledge. I spurred my comrades with this brief address to meet the journey with such eagerness that I could hardly then have held them back. And having turned our stern toward the morning, we made wings out of our oars in a wild flight and always gained upon our left hand side. At night I now could see the other pole and all its stars."
    },
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "text": "The star of ours had fallen and never rose above the plane of the ocean. Five times the light beneath the moon had been rekindled and as many time was spent since that hard passage phased our first attempt when there before us rose a mountain dark because of distance and it seemed to me the highest mountain I had ever seen. And we were glad but this soon turned to sorrow for out of that new land a whirlwind rose and hammered at our ship against her bow. Three times it turned her around with all the waters and at the fourth it lifted up the stern so that our prow plunged deep as pleased another until the sea again closed over us."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "text": "Okay, so Virgil is asking how did you die? And Ulysses says said that I'm a wanderer I'm an explorer and I took my men and I rallied them and said that we are we are seeking knowledge we are seeking new lands and this excited everyone and we sailed as far as a mountain this mountain is going to be purgatory okay we will be in purgatory after we finish Inferno and then he sails off the face of this earth right he they just die when they fall off the earth so this is a paradox because weren't we told to live a life of faith hope and love and here Ulysses he is pursuing what he loves and he's exploring new lands and he's living a life of faith that there must be new knowledge out there for me to discover why would he be in hell"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "what is what did he do wrong yes first he could be just like wanting to explore more without actually understanding what he's seeing and also about the mountain being purgatory it could be a way of saying if you avoid purgatory then you finish in like hell"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "interesting exactly yes you try to run away from purgatory and you end up in hell yeah that's very interesting yes anyone else no no those are great ideas but anyone else yes um"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "i'm guessing like if he's trying to know like all of the knowledge in the world he's trying to be like god kind of"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "um okay not really because um he's just exploring right okay we will meet someone who wants to be god later on but like not not here okay yeah go ahead"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "um earlier in in verse 94 neither my fondness for my son or pity for my old father nor the love i owed penelope was able to defeat in me the longing to gain experience in this world so um he uh ignored and betrayed and was treacherous towards people he should love or loves him"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "he abandoned his family right right he has a father liartes he has a son tamakis he has a wife penelope and he says i love my wife but my desire to wonder override my love for my own wife and so why did he fail in his mission to explore how did he die he has no anchor right remember how in paradise it is donnie's love for beatrice that propelled him to heaven right well in your exploration what anchors you is your love of family you have to ask yourself why am i exploring like where am i going and um ulysses didn't know so he just fell off the face of the earth because there was nothing to hold him back okay and that's why the punishment is the flame because the flame of ambition right and he's just trapped in his in his ambition but there's no body to it there's nothing to hold that"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "flame back the flame just wanders about okay so again what don is saying this is like really important is that we as individuals we are ultimately anchored by our family our community our society without these things we are really nothing okay does that make sense okay any any other questions or thoughts about this yes"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "but doesn't dante celebrate individuality"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "right but what he's saying is that individually individual has been anchored to other people you can only be an individual um with other people does that make sense yes"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "why is this worse than murder and thievery um"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "yeah that's your question why well thievery you are hurting those you're hurting you're hurting strangers right but what ulysses is doing you're hurting your own family right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "you're betraying your own kind and your own roots okay right does that make sense"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "because because your son needs a role model okay your wife needs a husband and your father needs a son and you've just abandoned them in order to pursue your own ambition you're rootless your all you care about is your ambition okay does that make sense okay good great question okay um but do you understand the idea so do you understand the idea that the an individual can only be so um with other people you can't be an individual by yourself right and like it's hard for for you to appreciate that right but at this time in history what's the worst punishment for people exile right does that make sense not execution exile okay and that's why don is so pissed off right now because he's he's when he's writing this in exile from florence and he's like i can't be to be who i am about florence okay you're taking away my identity does that"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "make sense all right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "yes um could i i want to add to the conversation before to the metaphor form assist sure sure sure um the idea that well the he the thieves get turned into snakes and the question is well who else got turned into a snake and it was the original serpent right by god and the serpent was the one who basically robbed adam and eve of paradise right so basically that's like the allusion to that"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "exactly you're exactly right yes um um and in fact milton will use this metamorphosis for paradise laws because in paradise laws uh the end fate for satan and the devils is they all turn into snakes okay so so it's almost like symmetry all right uh thank you all right let's keep on going guys okay and i want to commend everyone okay because now the discussion is much more interesting all right so uh this is great what's happening okay um 27 now"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "27 the flame already was erect and silent it had no more to say now it had left us with the permission of the gentle poet when just behind it came another flame that drew our eyes to watch its tip because of the perplexing sound that it sent forth even as the sicilian bull that first had bellowed with the cry and this was just of him who shaped it with its with his instruments would always bellow with its victim's voice so that although that bull was only brass it seemed as if it was a snake and as if it were pierced through by pain and so were the helpless words that from the first had found no path or exit from the flame transformed into the language of the fire"
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      "start": 9017.99,
      "end": 9053.74,
      "time_label": "2:30:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "okay right so um it may seem innocuous right oh you're you're chopping a flame who cares okay so what dante is doing is he's reminding you how painful it is by reminding you of the sicilian bull okay so sicilian bull was this hollow brass uh sculpture and then you were put in the fire inside of it and you were burned inside of it okay and then you felt so much pain that you cried and then people outside would hear basically a bull moaning all right so you're being burned alive constantly so it's pretty painful uh keep on going"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 9055.82,
      "end": 9106.92,
      "time_label": "2:30:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "line 16 but after they had found their way up toward the tip and given it that movement which the tongue had given them along their passage we heard oh you to him i turn my voice who only now were talking lombard saying now you may leave i'll not provoke more speech though i have come perhaps a little late may it not trouble you to stop and speak with me see how i stay and i'm burning if you have fallen into this blind world but recently out of the sweet italian country from which i carry all my guilt do tell me if the ramonoles have peace or war i was from there the hills between urbino and the ridge where tiber springs i still was bent attentive over him when my guide nudged me lightly at the side and said you speak he is italian and i who had my answer said already without delay began"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "start": 9106.92,
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      "time_label": "2:31:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "to speak to him oh soul that is concealed below in flame romagna is not now and never was quite free of war inside its tyrant's hearts but when i left her none had broken out ravenna stands as it has stood for years the eagle of polenta shelters it and also covers chervia with his wings the city that already stood long trial and made a bloodshed the bloody heap out of the french now finds itself again beneath green paws both masters of rukio old and new who dealt so badly with montaigne sees use their teeth to bore where they have always gnawed the cities on lamona and saturnal alert are led by the young lion of the white lair from summer unto winter he shifts factions that city with its side bathed by the savio just as it lies between the plain and mountain lives somewhere between tourney and far and now i pray you tell"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 9162.11,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "me who you are do not be harder than i've been with you that in the world your name may still endure after the flame in customary fashion had roared a while it moved its pointed tip this side and that and that set free this breath if i thought my reply were meant for one whoever could return into the world this flame would stir no more and yet since none if what i hear is true ever return to life from this abyss then without fear facing infinity i answer you i was a man of arms then wore the cord belief that so girt i made amends and surely what i thought would have been true had not the highest priest may he be damned made me fall back into my former sins and how and why i'd have you hear from me while i still had the form of bones and flesh my mother gave to"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "2:33:32",
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      "text": "me my deeds were not those of the lion but those of the fox the wiles and secret ways i knew them all and so employed their arts that my renown had reached the very boundaries of earth but when i saw myself come to that part of life when it is fitting for all men to lower sails and gather in their ropes what once had been my joy was now dejection repenting and confessing i became a friar and poor me it would have helped the prince of the new pharisees who then was waging war so near the lateran and not against the jews or saracens for every enemy of his was christian and none of them had gone to conquer acre or been a traitor in the sultan's lands took no care for the highest office or the holy orders that were his or for my cord which used to make its wearers lean but just"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 9265.8,
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      "time_label": "2:34:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "as constantine on mount soracti to cure his leprosy sought out sylvester so this one sought me out as his instructor to ease the fever of his arrogance he asked me to give counsel i was silent his words had seemed to me delirious and then he said your heart must not mistrust i now absolve you in advance teach me to batter palestrino to the ground you surely know that i possess the power to lock and unlock heaven for the keys my predecessor did not prize are two then his grave arguments compelled me so my silence seemed a worse offense than speech and i said since you cleanse me of the sin that i must now fall into father since you cleanse me of the sin that i must now fall into father no long promises and very brief fulfillments will bring a victory to your high throne then francis came as soon as i was dead"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:35:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "for me but one of the black cherubim told him don't bear him off do not cheat me he must come down among my menials the counsel that he gave was fraudulent since then i've kept close track to snatch his scalp one can't absolve a man who's not repented and no one can repent and will repent the law of contradiction won't allow it oh miserable me for now i started when he took hold of me and said perhaps you did not think that i was a logician he carried me to minos and that monster twisted his tail eight times around his hide and then when he had bit it in great anger announced this one is for the thieving fire for which and where you see i now am lost and in this garb i move in bitterness and with this his words were at an end the flame departed sorrowing and writhing and tossing its"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "2:36:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "sharp horn we moved beyond i went together with my guide along the ridge until the other arch that bridges the ditch where payment is imposed on those who since they brought such discord bear such loads"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "time_label": "2:36:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "okay so uh just to summarize the sinner he gave fraudulent counsel okay so he is a military strategist and the pope boniface wanted to take a city a certain city and the pope asked him for what clever strategy can i use to take this city and the uh sinner was like i'm afraid of god i'm not going to tell you and boniface is like i speak for god i promise you that if you help me i will guarantee you into heaven that is my power as pope so he says fine then here's my advice um grant amnesty to the people and when they open the doors we'll just kill everyone or or we'll capture the leaders okay and that strategy does work and um when he died he thought that he was going to heaven and saint francis came down from heaven to take him to heaven as was promised by the pope but then"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "time_label": "2:37:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "um one of the fallen angels says you can't go because um you gave father and counsel and so your actions determine your place in hell this is a very strange story for a variety of reasons let's start naming the reasons why this is a strange story or it doesn't really make any sense saint francis came down from heaven and then he was denied okay why is this a paradoxical story this is like really problematic story actually well the first paradox is um saint francis agrees with the pope boniface right that's kind of strange boniface said that if you help me i guarantee you uh a place in heaven and boniface uh this isn't simony uh but it's pretty corrupt right it's pretty evil and saint francis up in heaven says sure sure like that's a deal i'll come and get get the man and then the black servant had to intervene this is like really"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "problematic okay that's the first paradox"
    },
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      "start": 9551.02,
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      "time_label": "2:39:11",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "yes"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "what's a black sherbin"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "time_label": "2:39:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "black sherbin a sherbin is an angel right so a black sherbin would be a fallen angel yes so remember when we were in paradise there were many different orders of angels right so a sherbin is one of the orders this is a really hard paradox right saint francis who is founder of the franciscan order those who are devoted to uh poverty the one one of the least corruptible individuals in history he's helping a very corrupt pope do evil in the world what's going on here i mean i don't know the i actually don't know the answer i'm just throwing this out there okay it's confusing me as well"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:40:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "something about even if saint francis came hear me hello something about even if saint francis came down and and um agrees with boniface uh that he he will try to bring this man to heaven something about the law of contradiction doesn't allow it something about the nature of his repentance"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "what does it mean the contradiction here okay what it means is yes your heart says i want to repent right but your action says another thing okay so just because you say something believe something doesn't doesn't count it's like your action has to match these things okay so yes you did become a friar you did promise yourself to a life of god but you also committed treachery you also lied to the people inside the city drew them out and then betrayed them you also gave the pope really bad counsel you should have told the pope like don't do this don't go against your enemies instead you um you you helped them trick other people okay you gave farther than counsel you engage in manipulation and treachery and deception right so it doesn't matter what you say your actions speak for themselves okay that's the idea here you're condemned by your actions yeah guys there's no"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "answer we're we're just throwing out possibilities yes"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "um yeah but i mean the pope should have known that this is not god -like right"
    },
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      "text": "and the pope's gonna burn in hell"
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      "text": "yeah right we already know boniface is gonna burn in hell yeah right but like almost every pope was corrupt well a lot so like almost everyone should be there"
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      "text": "yeah there are a lot of popes burning hell yes okay uh and anyone else yes"
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      "text": "yeah there's something about i mean this one and uh and the past few cantos there's something about manipulation that comes to mind it's it's it's almost like the flip side of the positive imagination of love by god this is the manipulation of this kind of like the other side of the coin to serve himself right it's still a fundamental selfish act to"
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      "text": "and that's why he's burning in hell but the story again the story there are certain paradoxes in the story i still don't get why francis would come down to honor this contract"
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      "text": "yes uh yeah i would just uh uh keep asking a question like because i know that during that period the black party to keep fighting with the white party so the dante which is uh uh i think it's the dante who keeps fighting with the white party he's trying to uh against the black party right but during back that period i think the two parties want to try to compete with each other who is right and who will be uh superior so maybe in that case that uh yeah maybe just only the war could killing people which can just allow the uh the empire to be solidified so yeah did you want to say something well it was a black angel"
    },
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      "text": "that told him that he can't bring him to heaven but black angels are fallen angels right right fallen angels don't have any power in heaven or do they well no there's like like the man died"
    },
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      "text": "right the sinner died and now there are two angels fighting for his body right saint francis and the black sherbin okay and the platform is i have priority over you why does it have priority"
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      "text": "to me why does it why does a fallen angel have more priority yeah that's a paradox right i'm saying like there are a lot of paradoxes in"
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      "text": "the story one paradox is yes uh what did francis agree to help him and two how did the black sherbin have more power than saint francis right these are paradoxes all right okay let's try to unpack what's going on okay point one is that the pope boniface says are the keys to heaven okay so what they're saying is that as pope he is the representative of god on earth okay so he does have a certain power and that's why the sinner agrees to such duplicity because he's guaranteed right there's a contract at at play right okay and then because of this contract uh saint francis has to come and honor this contract otherwise you're you're avoiding the authority of the church of the church on earth okay does that make sense but this is saying that there are these laws that are above the contract in the catholic church okay and at this point in"
    },
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      "text": "history to hear these ideas would be revolutionary right because at this time in history everyone did believe the pope was the representative of god on earth and catholics still do today and a pope literally has a power to grant you access to heaven so that's what i think is going on but i could be wrong okay all right this is all just speculation any other thoughts or comments about about this just following up on what you just said i think"
    },
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      "text": "justice trumps the catholic church and that authority yeah and this is revolutionary at"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "this time at this point of issue right okay this alludes to the universality of truth like there is something governing even you know the angels close to god that's right okay yes"
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      "text": "there is a cosmic order okay all right let's keep on going canto 28 who even with untrammeled words and many attempts at telling ever could recount and full the blood and wounds that i now saw each tongue that tried would certainly fall short because the shallowness of both our speech and intellect cannot contain so much were you to reassemble all the men who once within a pool is fateful land had mourned their blood shed at the trojans hands as well as those who fell in the long war where massive mounds of rings were battle spoils even as livy writes who does not err and those who felt the thrust of painful blows when they fought hard against robert guiscar with all the rest whose bones are still piled up at cheperano each poolian was a traitor there and two at talia cozzo where old alardo conquered without weapons and then where one to show his"
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      "text": "limb pierced through and won his limb hacked off that would not match the hideousness of the ninth abyss no barrel even though it's lost a hooper hand and peace ever gapes as one whom i saw ripped right from his chin to where we fart his bowels hung between his legs one saw his vitals in the miserable sack that makes of what we saw swallow excrement while i was all intent on watching him he looked at me and with his hands he spread his chest and said see how i split myself see now how maimed muhammad is and he who walks and weeps before me is ali whose face is open wide from chin to forelock and all the others here whom you can see were when alive the sowers of dissension and scandal and for this they now"
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      "text": "are split okay so this in this uh part of hell uh these are people who've caused civil discord war between families okay and the first two people we see being punished are muhammad and ali and this of course would be confusing to a lot of people especially muslims okay so what how donnie understands this is that he thinks um that islam is just splitting off from christianity right you believe you all read the bible you believe in the same god and so this is basically just a division uh of of two religions okay so at this time in history uh catholics believe that muhammad was just leading leading a a heresy okay so and then ali is muhammad's grandson he caused a division among the islamic faith between the shia muslims and the sunni muslims okay the shia muslims believe that only an ancestor so only a descendant of muhammad can be caliph be the"
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      "text": "supreme leader and the sunnis believe no that's not necessarily the case okay and that caused a massive schism which continues to today okay um and so for creating this um discord their bodies are constantly ripped in half and split all the time okay all right uh let's keep on going line 37 behind us here devil"
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      "text": "dex is out so cruelly the shia muslims are constantly ripped in half and split all the time okay all right uh let's keep on going line 37 behind us here devil decks us out so cruelly behind us here devil decks us out so cruelly replacing everyone of this throng underneath the sword edge when we've made our way around the road of pain because our wounds have closed again before we have returned to meet his blade once more but who are you who dawdle on this ridge perhaps to slow your going to the verdict that was pronounced on yourself accusations death has not reached him yet my master answered nor is it guilt that summons him to torment but that he may gain full experience i who am dead must guide him here below to circle after circle throughout hell this is as true as that i speak to you more than a hundred when they"
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      "text": "heard him stopped within the ditch and turned to look at me forgetful of their torture wondering then you who will perhaps soon see the sun tell fra docino to provide himself with food if he has no desire to join me here quickly lest when snow besieges him it bring the nova reza the victory that otherwise they would not find too easy when he had raised his heel as if to go muhammad said these words to me and then he said it on the ground and off he went another sinner with his throat slid through and with his nose hacked off up to his eyebrows and no more than a single year remaining had with the other state with his steps in wonder he was the first before the rest to open his windpipe on the outside all blood red and said oh you whom guilt does not condemn and whom unless too close resemblance cheats"
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      "text": "me i've seen above upon italian soil remember peer to medicina have you ever again the gentle plane that from vercelli slopes to marco and let the two best men afano know i mean both messer guido and angelello that if the foresight we have here is not vain they'll be cast out of their ship and drowned weighed down with stones near la catolica because of a foul tyrant's treachery between the aisles of cyprus of the yorka neptune has never seen so cruel a crime committed by the pirates or the argives that traitor who sees only with one eye and rules the land which one who's here with me would wish his sight had never seen will call guido and angelello to a parlay and then will so arrange it that they'll need no vow or prayer to focara's wind and i to him if you would have me carry some news of you above then tell"
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      "text": "and show me who so detests the sight of remaining and then he set on the jaw of a companion opening his mouth and shouting this is he and he speaks not a man cast out he quenched the doubt in caesar insisting that the one who's prepared can only suffer harm if he delays oh how dismayed in pain he seemed to me his tongue slit in his gullet curio who once was so audacious in his talk and one who walked with both his hands hacked off while lifting off his stumps through the dark air so that his face was hideous with blood cried out you will remember mosca too who said alas what's done is at an end which was the seed of evil for the tuscans i added and brought death to your own kinsmen then having heard me speak grief heaped on grief he went his way as one gone mad with sadness but"
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      "text": "i stayed there to watch their company and saw a thing that i should be afraid to tell with no more proof than my own self except that i am reassured by conscience that good can't be a companion heartening a man beneath the breastplace of its purity i surely saw and it still seems i see a trunk without a head that walked just like the others in that melancholy heard it carried by the hair its severed head which swayed within its hand just like a lantern and that head looked at us and said ah me out of itself it made itself a lamb and they were two and one and one and two how that can be he knows who so decrees when it was just below the bridge it lifted its arm together with this head so that its word might be more near us words that said now you can see atrocious punishment you"
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      "text": "who still breathing go to view the dead see if there's any pain as great as this and so that I you may carry news of me know that I'm Bertrand de Bourgh the one who gave bad counsel to the fledgling king I made the son and father enemies and and and kids have fell with his malicious urgings did not do worse with Absalom and David because I severed those so joined I carry alas my brain to severed from its source which is within my trunk and thus in me one sees the law of the Lord."
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      "text": "of counter penalty okay so we are we are these sinners committed they sold discord and this discord became permanent right so we talked about Mohammed and Ali then there's Curio who sold discord between Caesar and Pompey who were previously good friends this is this led to a massive civil war in in Rome which will end only with the rise of the Roman Empire you also Bertrand de Bourgh and he's lost his head because he caught discord he caused discord or civil war between a father king and a son the prince okay um just for fun um who you put into this circle like today like from from from history or from today or just from your imagination who would you put into this circle circle a sort of discord just for fun yes Hitler excuse me Hitler no that's that's not what he did yes okay because like I asked people like who who belongs"
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      "text": "in hell your first first thought is Hitler right but like let's think about the punishment okay so of discord uh yes"
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      "text": "uh representative of democrats and republicans and like far right far left but but but can you give me an example like Trump for republicans and like Kamala Harris maybe Donald Trump right"
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      "text": "yeah okay maybe Donald Trump because Donald Trump has led to the polarization of American society right it's either you are for him or against him yes so it's a good good idea yes"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "uh yes along that line I was gonna say J.D Vance"
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      "text": "why why did J.D Vance"
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      "text": "because because he also sows conflict"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "but in every politician soils conflict then right um yeah but but but yeah Trump is a good suggestion anyone else it doesn't happen anytime soonτο have to be a real real person it could also be a fictional character a movie character okay or just someone from your life that you really really don't like okay yes social media in general and the makers of them so mark zuckerberg right is that a possibility because you schism it doesn't"
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      "text": "have to be like turning one into two it can be turning one into multiple scatter well no no the"
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      "text": "idea of like the social media algorithms is that they're trying to provoke anger because with anger you're much more engaged you're much more likely to use uh social media right so someone like mark zuckerberg is a sort of discord and that's the major concern about social media right before you had the evening news and evening news was a place to build consensus to build community with social media you just go you live in your own bubble and then you start arguing with other people and then it's no longer about finding consensus it's just about like beating the other guy right so mark zuckerberg arguably is a sort of discord along donald trump yeah these are two good suggestions anyone else"
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      "text": "yes maybe not a good one but uh greta thunberg okay why like she she creates discord between people who seek like money without like looking at the earth like environmental so she creates division between people who believe in environment and people who just make money in billionaires"
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      "text": "is she is she the root of this conflict is she the cause of this conflict uh yes yeah just media in"
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      "text": "general i guess it's like the biggest polarizing factor like right any media for like newspapers"
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      "text": "movies maybe even right media sure just media right i'm looking for a name guys okay you you can't put media into hell you have to put a person in the hell yes make maybe nick fuentes for his jewish people instead of zionist yeah i i i i think that's a good choice as well nick fuentes yes"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "right yes right just following his idea i was gonna say charlie kirk"
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      "text": "some people believe that yes right depends on your politics but some people do do believe that yes"
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      "text": "um schism though like this idea is schism what what are we schisming like we're separating yeah"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "that's a good point what are we separating yes from right so so the best choice would be donald trump because he caused a schism in the republican party right between conservative republicans and maga right that's that's a pretty"
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      "text": "good but but but according to dante this is schisming from god right and i mean there's"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "not necessarily not necessarily not necessarily no right because caesar and pompey didn't believe in god right okay all right so this is this is just an exercise okay it's like like like it's not political commentary yes all right yes all right let's keep on going kanto 29"
    },
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      "text": "so many souls and such outlandish one outlandish wounds had made my eyes inebriate they long to stay and weep but virgil said to me why are you staring so insistently why does your vision linger there below among the lost and mutilated shadows you did not do so at the other moats if you would count them all consider 22 miles make up the circuit of the valley of the valley the moon already is beneath our feet the time allotted to us now is short and there's more to see than you see here had you i answered him without a pause been able to consider why i looked you might have granted me a longer stay meanwhile my guide had moved ahead i went behind him answering as i walked on and adding in that hollow upon which just now i kept my eyes intent i think a spirit born of my own blood laments the guilt"
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      "text": "which down below costs so much at this my master said don't let your thoughts about him interrupt you from here on attend to other things let him stay there for i saw him below the little bridge his finger pointing at you threatening and heard him called by name jerry de bello but at that moment you were occupied with him who once was lord of kodofor you did not notice jerry he moved off my guide it was his death by violence for which he still is not avenged i said by anyone who shares his shame with him who once was lord of kodofor you did not notice jerry he moved off my guide it was his death by violence for which he still is not avenged i said by anyone who shares his shame jerry he moved off my guide it was his death by violence for which he still is not avenged i said by"
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      "text": "anyone who shares his shame that made him so disdainful now and i suppose for this he left without a word to me and this has made me pity him the more and so we talked until we found the first point of the ridge that if there were more light would show the other valley to the bottom when we had climbed above the final cloister of malabal journey so that its lay brothers were able to appear before our eyes i felt the force of strange laments like arrows whose shafts are barbed with pity and at this i had to place my hands across my ears just like the sufferings that all the sake of valdikiana's hospitals maramas sardinas from july until september would muster if assembled in one ditch so was it here and such a stench rose up as usually comes from festering limbs and keeping always to the left we climbed down to the"
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      "text": "final bank of the long ridge and then my sight could see more vividly into the bottom where unerring justice the minister of the high lord punishes the falsifiers she had registered i do not think that there was greater grief in seeing all aegina's people sick then when the air was so infected that all animals down to the little worm collapsed and afterward as poets hold to be the certain truth those ancient peoples received their health again through seed of ants then i felt when i saw in that dark valley the spirit languishing in scattered heaps some lay upon their bellies some upon the shoulders of another spirit some crawled on all fours along that squalid road we journeyed step by step without a word watching and listening to those six souls who had not strength enough to lift themselves i saw two sitting propped against each other as pan is propped on pan to heat"
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      "text": "them up heat them up and each from head to foot spotted with scabs and i have never seen a stable boy whose master waits for him or one who stays awake reluctantly so ply a horse with curry comb as they hold themselves with clawing nails their itching had such force and fury and there was no other help and so that nails kept scraping off the scabs just as the knife scrapes off the scales of carp or of another fish with scales more large oh you who use your nails to strip yourself my god began my guide began to say to one of them and sometimes have to turn them into pincers tell us if there are some italians among the sinners in this moat so may your nails hold out eternal at their work we tomb who you see so disfigured here we're italians one said in tears but who are you who have inquired"
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      "text": "of us my guide replied from circle down to circle together with this living man i'm one who descends i mean to show him hell at this their mutual support broke off and quivering each spirit turned toward me with other who by chance had heard his words then my good master drew more close to me saying now tell them what is it you want and i began to speak just as he wished so that your memory may never fade within the first world from the minds of men but still live on and under many sons do tell me who you are and from what city and do not let your vile and filthy torment make you afraid to let me know your names one answered me my city was a red so and albero sienna had me burned but what i died for does not bring him here bring me here it's true that i had"
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      "text": "told him that i was a man of the earth and that i had by no means an emissary but a gentleman who was the god of the world sienna had me burned i would not happen to have suggested that i should do something like this one who served him jestingly i'd know enough to fly through air and he with curiosity but little sense wished me to show that art to him and just because i had not made him dadalus had one who held him as a son burn me but minos who cannot mistake condemned my spirit to the final pouch of ten for alchemy i practice in the world and then i asked the poet match such vanity. At this the other leper who had heard me replied to what I said, except for Strica, for he knew how to spend most frugally, and Niccolo, the first to make men see that clothes can serve"
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      "text": "as luxury, such seed and gardens where its suits can take fast fruit, and two, Caccia d 'Asciano's company, with whom he squandered vineyards and tilled fields, while Abagliato showed such subtlety. But if you want to know who joins you so against the Sienese, look hard at me, that way my face can also answer lightly, and see that I'm the shade of that Capoccio whose alchemy could counterfeit fine metals, and you, if I correctly take your measure, recall how apt I was at aping nature.\" Okay, all right, so this is really interesting because we reached the lowest point."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Um, area of hell, and this area is reserved for those who engage in alchemy, okay? Now, alchemy is something that's very common back at this time. Alchemy is basically trying to find, uh, trying to turn lead into gold. It's trying to find the elixir of youth, um, or immortality, okay? So you're trying to... do chemistry, basically. Why would this be the worst sin in the circle of fraud? What's the issue with this? We, we know why thievery is an issue. We, we, we know why, uh, identity theft is an issue. We understand all this, but why, why would alchemy be an issue? In fact, it's the worst thing you can, you can do in, in fraud. Yeah. Yeah."
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      "text": "Why is that?"
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      "text": "Because it gives people false hope, and such that people waste their life pursuing something that is not real."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Right, but then you can argue that heresy is the same thing, right? Uh, yeah, yes, yes."
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      "text": "So is it because of, like, these alchemists, they actually feed some of, like, what you want? For example, they feed your greed, they feed, like, this, uh, your, your want of, uh,"
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      "text": "example love or immortality right but but all people who commit fraud do that right why are they the worst of all these fraudsters did you um it's like you're you're trying to change the whole"
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      "text": "fabric fabric of the world yes you're trying to bend everything for your wants and desires yes"
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      "text": "you're trying to change the loss of god okay it's not that you're not going to succeed but the fact that you're trying the fact that people are helping you try that's a problem yeah it's a bad example okay so before we were discussing society right the law society and how people warp society with fraud but now with alchemy you're trying to warp nature with fraud okay and that's even worse okay does that make sense right uh yes this is a bit of a weird question"
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      "text": "but i saw some thought of some parallels but would you say like for example today the striving and working towards ai is kind of like"
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      "text": "old alchemy because we're trying to exactly fabric it's it's ai is alchemy guys yes you're exactly right okay uh yes how about new nuclear energy it is it is alchemy it is it is complete complete"
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      "text": "alchemy yes that's right yes how about moon landing it's also considered as alchemy what do"
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      "text": "you think excuse me more landing moon landing um it's not alchemy but you're also going against the laws of nature right it's like ulysses falling off the the edge of the earth right it's like why are you in the moon guys like like why there are poor people back here okay there's lots of problems here solve the problems first before you go to the moon okay so it's not alchemy but it's still problematic okay but ai is a hundred percent alchemy nuclear energy is uh also problematic okay it's also alchemy"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "okay uh yes but but what if that uh just like ai who can give people a job give people hope or even love it is due to the common economy it's a huge bomb yes right yeah yes did you a few"
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      "text": "decades ago they would have said the internet is alchemy but the internet has brought you know education like this youtube live stream to millions of people and it that's also improved jobs so is that like would you also say wait u vertically economic stock this is not america business мозk say the internet is alchemy."
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      "text": "The internet is not alchemy."
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      "text": "But then AI is alchemy."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Right, right, okay. So can you try to explain the difference between AI and the internet?"
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      "text": "Like the internet facilitates normal worldly ideas to spread, but AI is from nothing creating..."
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      "text": "What does AI stand for? Artificial intelligence. That's alchemy, guys. Creating intelligence artificially, right? Turning lead into gold. Artificial intelligence. Yes?"
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      "text": "I guess, I mean, just taking the thesis of this whole course is to assume that this is divinity. I guess one of the things that I can see here is a warning about manipulating nature, manipulating reality, the nature of reality itself, is that the risks that these things come with are unimaginable. It is potentially the worst."
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      "text": "Yeah, so the problem with our world today is we don't think there are moral laws at work, right? We are in a post -truth world, right? We are beyond God. We can be our own God."
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      "text": "Yes? Maybe similar to artificial intelligence is artificial insemination or genetic manipulation in order to create the perfect... That is correct, yes....perfect offspring....perfect offspring and numerous offspring."
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      "text": "Yes, you're absolutely correct. It is alchemy. That is alchemy. Yes. Yes, did you have a..."
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      "text": "Yeah. It's like, I feel curious, like how could we, like why we regard AI as alchemy, but obviously it has to mention a part of, but for me, I feel a little bit confused because I thought like based on AI algorithm, it's, I know it's like artificial, it's intelligence, but still it's currently those models doesn't have their own power to create this idea that never have occurred before. So like for me, AI is still a tool that is more objectively like help you to search out the information that has already been exist. So from my point of view, AI may not like obey the law of God because it actually doesn't create something. It's just like trying to sort out the information for you."
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      "text": "Right, right. I understand this, but for Donnie, the concern is the intent. It is the intent. If you talk to people who work in AI, they're like, we're trying to create God. Okay. You understand? So alchemy, right? Trying to turn lead into gold. It doesn't work. We know it doesn't work. There'll never be immortality, but what are all these Silicon Valley's building and spending their money on? Immortality, right? It's not that you'll succeed, but it's like you intend to do this. Okay. Okay, right, that's the issue. All right, yes."
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      "text": "So if nuclear power is alchemy is for example, fossil fuels or like renewable energies also alchemy."
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      "text": "Okay, so nuclear energy we can debate about. Okay. But yeah, I would say nuclear energy is alchemy because and I think the crucial distinction is that with nuclear energy you're entering into territory that is the very fundamental fabric of nature of the universe, right? You don't actually know the consequences of your actions, right? Look, there are people who believe that the entire point of the nuclear bomb is to open portals to welcome summon demons into our world. There are literally people who believe that, right? That's alchemy. Okay, so the point isn't as nuclear weapon weapons are not meant to be a weapon. They're meant to be a portal to summon interdimensional aliens or demons into our world. Okay. Yeah, so it's worth some intent. Yes."
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      "text": "Yeah, with this intention, then I wonder alchemy is turning lead to gold, which is which is impossible by the laws of chemistry and God. The splitting of the atom is possible. We've done it. So I wonder if this intention to a thing that cannot happen is alchemy. Where a thing that can't happen is no different than me taking medicine for a sickness. God put that sickness in my body that gave me the ability to cure the sickness. The intention is there on both of them. The one one is within the realm of the fabric of the universe. One is clearly not right."
    },
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      "text": "Okay, so that's a really interesting comment. Okay, and so how would Donnie respond to this? Well, you have the intention, but you're not gonna succeed. So who cares how Donnie respond to that? You would say if there's a will there's a way you understand. So you we think we cannot turn lead into gold, but we actually have succeeded in doing so. Because now we have the idea of money, right? What is money? Money is alchemy. Because what I've done is I've taken a piece of paper, right? Any piece of paper and I've turned it into gold, right? Is how is that different from alchemy? I can now use this money to go buy a house or buy a car."
    },
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      "text": "Yes, I guess the difference would be classification. You're turning you turn that paper into wealth, but you did not turn it into gold. So but what is gold? So gold is wealth, right? They're both wealth. They're both types of wealth, but you did not turn it into the physical components."
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      "text": "Well, I can tell you I can use money by gold."
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      "text": "Yeah, you so you turned them both into well, they both have value. You turn them into purchasing power, but you didn't turn it is into the physical components of gold."
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      "text": "No, no, no. But what I'm saying is like lead in the gold, right? If I add an intermediary step, which is like. Print money, then I saw the problem, right? I can use money to buy gold and then I can sell lead to get money. Okay, so how is that different? No, so so I'm not saying, you know, we succeeded in the goal. I'm saying like for Dante. The concern is where there's a will there's a way we can never ever underestimate the human imagination. That's the animating force of the universe, right? So we set our intent on something. And this intent is malicious. Then that's a sin. Yes."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah. I also agree with the fact that if you have a will to distort the order that God has set up to be, then that's the ultimate sin. Just like the Tower of Babel, where there's a will, there's a way. So people are building the Tower of Babel to reach heaven and be like, we can preach God. We can let God. Basically, it's like the first landing of the moon. Like people trying the impossible, you know, going to outer space and God's like, no, you guys are not going to do that. I'm giving you languages. So you guys are messed up. So you can't do that. But that the sub messages is that if people so well continue, they probably can because there's a will, you know, there's a way. And so that's why God had to send us different languages to stop, you know, people working towards that goal. So I think it's the same scene that's repeated here."
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      "text": "It's like if there's a way, a will, there's a way. So if there's a will to replace God, right? And distort his order that he has established in the natural laws, you know, then it's. Abomination. Right."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay."
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      "text": "Yes. I think there is a kind of philosophy, but also German concept. It's called and art and right. It's about and art. And it's the art, you know, the nature to turn something into another nature to to basically to betray your nature. And I can e n t a r a t n. Yeah."
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      "text": "And naturalize. Yeah."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So basically to to to deprive the the the. Yeah. Okay. That's you."
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      "text": "Well, no, but why is it? Why is it the German?"
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      "text": "Basically is is chemistry because it's basically try to deprive the human being or the, you know, godly Kingdom of its original purpose. Why is it just a German thing? Alchemy is appropriate. You know, the the intent is to to, you know, take over the Kingdom of God, you know, the all whatever the humanity and to replace is what with your own personal, you know, will and that's I think is goes beyond the the nature of, you know, the rules of nature. And then that's a crime against humanity, right?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "And we can also appreciate that. These alchemists are sinful because. Even though they're not successful, they're still they're still make a believe that it's possible to change the rules of nature, which leads to hubris, which leads to a lot of like really bad behavior. Okay. All right. Okay. So does that make sense guys? All right. Let's let's continue. But thank you so much for that. Okay. It's a really interesting idea and we'll come back to it later on because we live in an age of AI. And what I want to do as move on is try to use. Dante to better understand the most pressing issues of our time, including AI. Okay. All right."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "So this is in front of 30 counter 30 when Juno wasn't sent with Semele and thus against the Theban family had shown her fury time and time again. Then Athamas was driven so insane that seeing both his wife and their two sons as she bore one upon each arm, he cried. Let's spread the Nets to take the lioness together with her Cubs along the path. And he stretched out his talent, his talents, pitiless, and snatched the son who bore the name Laercas, whirled him around and dashed him on a rock. She with her other burden drowned herself. And after fortune turned against the pride of Troy, who had dared also that the king together with his kingdom was destroyed. Then Hecuba was wretched, sad, a captive. And after she had seen Polyxena dead and it's in misery, had recognized her. Paula Doris lying on the shore. She barked out of her senses like a dog."
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      "text": "Her agony had so deformed her mind. But neither fury Theban Trojan ever was seen to be so cruel against another in rending beasts and even human limbs. As were two shades. I saw both pale naked who biting ran berserk and just the way a hog does when it's let's loose from its sty. The one came at Kapocho. And so. He sank his tusks into his neck so that by dragging he made the hard ground scrape against his belly. And he who stayed behind the Aretini trembled and said that phantoms Johnny sneaky. And he does raging rending others so. He goes raging rending others so. And, oh, I said to him, so may the other not sink its teeth in you. Please tell me who it is before it hurries off from here. And he to me. That is the ancient soul of the indecent mirror. She who loved her father passed the limits of just love."
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      "text": "He can't. She came to sin with him by falsely taking another shape upon herself. Just as the other phantom who goes there had done that. He might gain the lady of the herd when he disguised himself as boss of Donati making a will as if most properly. And when the pair of raging ones had passed those two on whom my eyes were fixed. I turned around to see the rest of the ill -born. I saw one who'd been fashioned like a loot. If he had only had his groin cut off from that part of his body where it forks. The heavy dropsy which so departs this proportions the limbs with unassimilated humors that there's no match between the face and belly had made him part his lips like a consumptive who will because of thirst. Let one lip drop down to his chin and lift the other up. Oh you exempt from every punishment in this grim world and I do not know why he said to us."
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      "text": "Look now and pay attention to this the misery of Master Adam alive. I had enough of all I wanted. Alas, I now long for one drop of water. The rivulets that fall into the Arno down from the green hills of the Casentino with channels cool and moist are constantly before me. I'm racked by memory. The image of their flow parches me more than the disease that robs me. My face of flash. Flesh. The rigid justice that would torment me uses as most appropriate the place where I had sinned to draw swift size for me. There's Romina. There I counterfeited the currency that bears the Baptist seal. For this I left my body burned above. But could I see the miserable souls of Guido, Alessandro, or their brother? I'd not give up the sight for Fonte Branda. And one of them is in this moat already."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0397",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12316s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0397",
      "start": 12316.87,
      "end": 12369.87,
      "time_label": "3:25:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "If what the angry shades report is true, what use is that to me whose limbs are tied? Were I so light that in a hundred years I could advance an inch? I should already be well upon the road to search for him among the mutilated ones. Although the circuit measures some eleven miles and is at least a half mile across. Because of them I'm in this family. It was those three who had incited me to coin the florins with three carats dross. And I to him. Who are those two poor sinners who give off smoke like wet hands in the winter and lie so close to you upon the right? I found them here, he answered. When I rain down to this rocky slope, they've not stirred since and will not move, I think, eternally. One is the lying woman who blamed Joseph. The other, lying Sinan, Greek from Troy. Because of raging fever they wreak so."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0398",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12370s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0398",
      "start": 12370.19,
      "end": 12419.27,
      "time_label": "3:26:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "And one of them who seemed to take offense. Perhaps at being named so squalidly, struck with his fist at Adam's rigid belly. It sounded as if it had been a drum. And Master Adam struck him in the face using his arm which did not seem less hard. Saying to him, although I cannot move my limbs because they're too heavy, I still have an arm that's free to serve that need. And he replied, but when you went to burning your arm was not as quick as it was now. Though when you coined it was as quick and more. To which the drop seed one, here you speak true, but you were not so true a witness there. When you were asked to tell the truth at Troy. If I spoke false, you falsified the coin, said Sinan. I'm here for just one crime, but you've committed more than any demon."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0399",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12419s",
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      "start": 12419.88,
      "end": 12471.48,
      "time_label": "3:26:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Do not forget the horse, you perjurer, replied the one who had the bloated belly. May you be plagued because the whole world knows this. The Greek, and you be plagued by thirst that cracks your tongue in putrid waters. That has made your belly such a hedge before your eyes. And then the coiner. So as usual your mouth because of racking fever gapes. For if I thirst and if my humerus bloats me, you have both dryness and a head that aches. Few words would be sufficient invitation to have you lick the mirror of narcissus. I was intent on listening to them when this was what my master said. If you insist on looking more, I'll quarrel with you. And when I heard him speak so angrily, I turn around to him with shame. I regret that it still stirs within my memory. Even as one who dreams that he is harmed and dreaming, wishes he were dreaming, thus desiring that which is as if it were not."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0400",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12471s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0400",
      "start": 12471.78,
      "end": 12497.12,
      "time_label": "3:27:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "So I became within my speechlessness. I wanted to excuse myself and did excuse myself, although I knew it not. Lest shame would wash away a greater fault than was your fault, my master said to me. Therefore release yourself from all remorse and see that I am always at your side, should it so happen once again that fortune brings you where men would quarrel in this fashion, to want to hear such bickering is base."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12498s",
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      "start": 12498.49,
      "end": 12585.31,
      "time_label": "3:28:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, all right, so this is a very complicated canto, okay? There are lots of individuals and there's a lot going on, okay? So in this last area of the circle of fraud, there are lots of people who are condemned here, okay? They are, of course, the alchemists. Then you have impostors, people who steal people's identity. Then you have counterfeiters. And so, first of all, what do we have? Actually, you know what, Carol, could you do me a favor and Google this? Like, who's actually in canto 30? So I want to make sure I'm correct here, okay? I want to make sure, because this is a very confusing canto. And there are lots of different individuals, okay? So... So let's see who they are, okay? Okay, so these are the falsifiers, yes? You have Master Adam, who's a counterfeiter. You have a spy, who's a false witness. You have Gianna Sitsi, who is an impostor. And you have Mera, Mera, okay?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0402",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12585s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0402",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0402",
      "start": 12585.53,
      "end": 12657.797,
      "time_label": "3:29:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "And so the two people who have an argument are Sinon and Master Adam, right? Master Adam is a counterfeiter. And Sinon is a Greek spy. Who convinced the Trojans to take in the Trojan horse. And they're having an argument about who is worse. Gianna Sitsi, he is an impostor who disguises himself as a dead person, okay? So, first of all, what is the connection among all these people, the falsifiers? It's a very confusing section. You have a counterfeiter. You have a spy. You have an impostor. You have Mera, who disguises herself to commit incest for her own father. Huh. What's going on here? Maybe this is just a garbage heap of hell, right? Like, you don't belong in any other category, so you're just dumped here. But that's not Dante, right? We already said that Dante, there's a lot of intentionality. There's a lot of creativity. There's a lot of imagination."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0403",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12657s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0403",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0@transcript:v1#seg-0403",
      "start": 12657.797,
      "end": 12710.49,
      "time_label": "3:30:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So what is he doing here? All right. So let's look at certain things that happens, okay? So the outcome is... So, you have a phantomess who suffers from leprosy, okay? Their punishment is leprosy. Gianni, the impostor, he sinks his teeth into the leper. What does this signify, do you think? And again, it's all speculation, guys. We don't know, okay? We don't actually know what the allegorical meaning is. We're just speculating here, okay? But there's this violent scene where the impostor, Gianni, he sinks his teeth into the alchemist and tries to eat him."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0404",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12719s",
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      "start": 12719.52,
      "end": 12746.29,
      "time_label": "3:31:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes? So, the impostor basically is a person who tries to steal somebody else's identity. And so this, you know, appropriate punishment or educational course for them is to let them sink their, you know, to consume the identity of a very evil person so that they will be satiated."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=12746s",
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      "start": 12746.63,
      "end": 12830.087,
      "time_label": "3:32:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, yeah. So, the thing, though, is that the alchemist is a leper, okay? And at this time in history, who does everyone want to avoid? Lepers, okay? So, the punishment for this impostor is he's forced to just randomly eat people, including those who are lepers, okay? Okay. So, that makes sense. Why would Master Adam, who's a counterfeiter, why would he argue with Sinon about who's worse? And this is actually the first time in Divine Comedy we see an argument between two souls, right? These two sinners. And they're arguing about, like, who's worse, right? Well, I mean, like, technically, they're all equally bad, right? Because they're in the same area of hell. So, what are they arguing about? Let's just throw some possibilities, okay? Like this. Speculate. Just use your imagination. Just throw ideas out here. Let's just brainstorm together, okay? You have a counterfeiter and you have a spy arguing about who's worse."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "time_label": "3:33:50",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Why would they do that?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0/transcript/#seg-0407",
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      "start": 12837.8,
      "end": 12856.74,
      "time_label": "3:33:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "Yes? Because each of them feel like the other one shouldn't be at the same level where they are, you know? Like, every one of them feel like they're superior or, like, they're condemned least. Like, lesser sins than the others."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "collection": "episodes",
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      "start": 12857.26,
      "end": 12865.09,
      "time_label": "3:34:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yeah, yeah. So, they're different, right? And they're trying to figure out, like, why they're together. And they kind of piss that they're together. Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "start": 12865.23,
      "end": 12908.63,
      "time_label": "3:34:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Yes? Um, like, the alchemists, they both changed the nature of reality. So, Master Adam, he basically changed, like, um, he changed money, basically, right? Or, like, he made fake money. So, he changed the nature of reality. He changed the nature of money. And Sinon changed, um, I mean, he basically, yeah, made the Trojans believe that it's a horse that is a present, right, for the Trojans, even though it basically destroyed Troy. So, he changed also their nature of reality."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "start": 12908.91,
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      "time_label": "3:35:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yeah. So, the similarity is that both are changing the perception of reality, right? Both are manipulating the perception of reality. They're not alchemists who are manipulating reality itself, but they are changing people's perception of reality, right? One, by creating counterfeit coins and taking advantage of, uh, people's reliance on money. And the other is giving false testimony or lying in order to create, um, a different reality, okay? So, one's a counterfeiter. And the other is basically, like, one of these, um, fake news reporters, right? Uh, yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "time_label": "3:36:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "I wonder if, maybe the counterfeiter doesn't fit, but an impersonator is a form of theft, but it's a specific, you're stealing someone's identity, which would be, like, God's creation. You're stealing something from God because God created you and your identity, where if I stole your wallet, God didn't create that."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 12988.14,
      "end": 12995.64,
      "time_label": "3:36:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. So, why are they all together? Right? These are all the falsifiers. They're, and they're all different, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "time_label": "3:36:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "They all prey on people's trust."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "text": "They all prey on people's trust. They take advantage of people's trust. But this is an entire circle, right? Uh, yes?"
    },
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      "text": "They're all manipulating a larger trust. So, money is, it's not just trust between individuals, it's trust by society, right? Um, what's the other one? The Trojan horse. This is, this is money. This is, you know, you're ending an entire civilization."
    },
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      "text": "Right."
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      "text": "Altering the course of history."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Right."
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      "text": "I think this could be a step more than alchemy, because instead of changing objects, you're impersonating Mira, impersonated as a different person to sleep with her father. Right. And I guess it's something that's supposedly created by God and is transformed into something that you can't trust. So, you're not just manipulating objects and soulless things. You are manipulating things that supposedly have a soul."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yes. Okay. Right."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Oh, you know, another word. Uh, where else? Uh, in the letter of, the letter of sinners. Uh, they might, uh, be stealing things or destroying people's trust. Uh, this group of sinners, they create a false trust, which could be, uh, you know, meta trust, uh, meta sievery. So, which is a higher level of sievery."
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      "text": "Yes. Okay. Yes."
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      "text": "For alchemy, we said that to an extent it's futile because it's too much. It has to do with your will, but I'm not sure the exact history of all these people, but did they actually succeed in doing it?"
    },
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      "text": "But how do they succeed? What allowed them to succeed in a way that alchemists cannot succeed? Alchemists want to change the nature. They want to change the fabric of nature, right? And you can't do that. That's not what we can do. What word is crucial to Dante that we have not used today and basically yesterday?"
    },
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      "text": "Consciousness. Maybe. Why consciousness is important? Because. What do we do with the consciousness? It's our connection with God. Consciousness. Or imagination."
    },
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      "text": "Imagination. Okay. All right. So one possibility, okay. And I'm just putting this out there for us to discuss. Okay. Is that what these four people have in common is hijacking the imagination. Does that make sense? Okay. So remember in paradise, the imagination is what makes us unique. It's what makes us co -creators. It's what makes us co -creators with God. Right? It's what allows the universe to expand outwards. But you could also use your imagination for evil, right? And when you use it for evil, what happens is the universe contracts. You're limiting people's imaginative space. Does that make sense? You're hijacking the imagination for evil ends. That brings evil to the world. Right? And before, we always thought that imagination is a good thing. Well, it should be a good thing. And you can use it to create poetry, to create society. But there are people who can hijack people's imaginations to create evil in this world."
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      "text": "Right? Does that make sense? So as a counterfeiter, what you're doing is you're hijacking people's imagination that this money is very valuable. Right? As a spy, you're hijacking people's imagination that people tell the truth. The imposter hijacks people's imagination that only we can write our own wills. Right? So they're all hijacking the imagination in some way. Right? And you think about it, for Dante, this would be a lot worse than trying to hijack nature. Okay? And this is interesting because... In our society, then who are like the worst people? To me? No, not really. That would be like laws against... Acting against God and nature. Right? It'd be like sodomy and incest. It'd be in a circle of violence. But this circle of fraud. Yes? Influencers on social media? I think so. I think so. I think that's what Dante is saying here. Okay? And I could be wrong. But it sounds like social media influencers."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "People with like huge followings. But not me, of course. They're the worst people. Because they're hijacking the social consciousness. They're hijacking the social imagination. Okay? I'm not going to name names because I'll get in trouble. But yes, you can imagine certain people. Right? Okay? So that's what he's saying here."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Any... Yes? Yeah, because I heard in America the highest hierarchical crime is not killer. It's just the people who manipulate others and try to let them believe that the lie is truth. Look, look."
    },
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      "text": "I mean like this is hard for people in China to appreciate. But media people are really powerful in America. You know? It's not true in China. Media people in China have actually no power. But in America, if you work in the media, you're really, really powerful. Okay?"
    },
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      "text": "Yesterday, one of the participants mentioned that in Haidian, the biggest crime is fraud. So... I mean a lot of fraud happens when some voice, AI voice impersonates a father, a mother, or son or daughter to get money from someone."
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      "text": "Right. Exactly. Right? Right. So you are... With your social media influence, you could hijack the imagination of millions of people. So, yeah. I think that's what he's saying here. I could be wrong. Okay? But I'm trying to figure out what these four people have in common. Because they're so different on the surface. Right? Okay? All right. Let's continue."
    },
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      "text": "Canto 31. The very tongue that first had wounded me, sending the color up in both my cheeks, was then to cure me with its medicine. As did Achilles and his father's lance, even as I have heard when it dispensed a sad stroke first, and then a healing one. We turned our backs upon that dismal valley by climbing up the bank that girdles it. We made our way across without a word. Here it was less than night and less than day, so that my sight could only move. We moved ahead slightly. But then I heard a bugle blast so strong, it would have made a thunderclap seem faint. At this, my eyes, which doubled back upon their path, turned fully toward one place, not even Roland's born, which followed on the sad defeat when Charlemagne had lost his holy army, was as dread as this. I'd only turned my head there briefly when I seemed to make out many high towers, and I asked him, Master, tell me, what's this city?"
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      "start": 13501.78,
      "end": 13545.58,
      "time_label": "3:45:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "And he, to me, it is because you try to be wise. It is because you try to penetrate from far into these shadows that you have formed such faulty images. When you have reached that place, you shall see clearly how much the distance has deceived your sense, and therefore let this spur you on your way. Then lovingly, he took me by the hand and said, before we have moved farther on so that the fact may seem less strange to you, I'd have you know they're not towers, but giants, and from the navel downward, all of them are in the central pit at the embankment. Just as. Whenever mists begin to thin, when gradually vision finds the form that in the vapor -thickened air was hidden. So I pierced through the dense and darkened fog as I drew near, always nearer to the shore."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "start": 13545.8,
      "end": 13606.74,
      "time_label": "3:45:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "My error fled from me, my terror grew. For as on its ground wall Monte Rigoni is crowned with towers, so they're towered here above the bank that runs around the pit, with half their bulk the terrifying giants, whom Jove still may know. And I could now make out the face of one, his shoulders and his chest, much of his belly, and both his arms that hung along his sides. Surely, when she gave up the art of making such creatures, nature acted well indeed, depriving Mars of instruments like these. And if she still produces elephants and whales, whoever sees with subtlety holds her, for this to be more just and prudent. And where the mind's acutest reasoning is joined to evil will and evil power, there are human beings can't defend themselves. His face appeared to me as broad and long as Rome can claim, for it's St. Peter's pine cone. His other bones shared in that same proportion."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFK53cYz_h0&t=13607s",
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      "start": 13607.82,
      "end": 13659.14,
      "time_label": "3:46:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "So that the bank which served him as an apron down from his middle showed so much of him above that three Frieslanders would in vain have boasted of their reaching to his hair. For downward from the place where one would buckle a mantle, I saw thirty -six of them, six bands of his. Raphael, my amicus sabi almi, began to bellow that brute mouth for which no sweeter psalms would be appropriate. And my guide turned to him, O stupid soul, keep to your horn and use that as an outlet when rage or other passion touches you. Look at your neck and you will find the strap that holds it fast, and see, bewildered spirit, how it lies straight across your massive chest. And then to me. He's his own accuser. For this is Nimrod, through whose wicked thought one single language cannot serve the world. Leave him alone. Let's not waste time and talk."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "start": 13659.36,
      "end": 13664.12,
      "time_label": "3:47:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "For every language is to him the same as his to others. No one knows his tongue."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "time_label": "3:47:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So Nimrod, of course, is the man who built the Tower of Babel, right? And for his crime, he now, whatever he says is gibberish, okay? He's incomprehensible. Okay. Keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "So turning to the left, we journeyed on, and at the distance of a bow, shot, found another giant, far more huge and fierce, who was the master who had tied him so. I cannot say. But his left arm was bent behind him, and his right was bent in front, both pinioned by a chain that held him tight down from the neck and round the part of him that was exposed. It has been wound five times. This giant, in his arrogance, had tested his force against the force of Highest Jove, my guide said. So he merits this reward. His name is Iphialtes, and he showed tremendous power, and the giants frightened the gods. The arms he moved now moved no more. An eye to him. If it is possible, I'd like my eyes to have experience of the enormous one, Briareus. At which he answered, you shall see Antaeus nearby. He's unfettered and can speak. He'll take us to the bottom of all evil."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "The one you wish to see lies far beyond, and is bound up and just as huge as this one, and even more ferocious in his gaze. No earthquake ever was so violent when called to shake a tower so robust as Iphialtes is quick to shake himself. Then I was more afraid of death than ever, that fear would have been quite enough to kill me, had I not seen how he was held by chains. And we continued on until we reached Antaeus, who, not reckoning his head, stood out above the rock wall full of five elves. O you who lived within the famous valley, where Scipio became the heir of glory, where Hannibal retreated with his men, who took a thousand lions as your prey, and had you been together with your brothers in their high war. It seems some still believe the sons of earth would have become the victors."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "start": 13784.37,
      "end": 13844.63,
      "time_label": "3:49:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Do set us down below, where cold shuts in Cocytus, and do not disdain that task. Don't send us on to Tydeus or Typhon. This man can give you what is long for here, therefore bend down and do not curl your lip. He still can bring you fame within the world, for he's alive and still expects long life, unless grace summon him before his time. So said my master. And in haste Antaeus stretched out his hand, whose massive grip had once been felt by Hercules, and grasped my guide. And Virgil, when he felt himself caught up, called out to me, come here so I can hold you, then made one bundle of himself and me. Just as the garrisenda seems when seen beneath the leaning side, when clouds run past and it hangs down as if about to crash, so did Antaeus seem to me as I watched him bend over me, a moment when I'd have preferred to take some other road."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "start": 13844.91,
      "end": 13855.73,
      "time_label": "3:50:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "But gently, on the deep that swallows up both Lucifer and Judas, he placed us, nor did he so bent over stay there long. But like a mast above a ship, he rose."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "end": 13920.17,
      "time_label": "3:50:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay, so now we are now entering the final circle of hell. One comment is that Dante creates symmetry, right? So remember, in paradise, what leads... What leads us to the Imperium are these angels, right? And now, as we enter the final circle, it's these giants that lead us the way. I just want this out there, okay? Why giants in hell? Why angels in heaven? It's obvious for angels in heaven, but why giants in hell? And again, you just have to use your imagination because there's no answer, okay? You're going to lose your mind. You literally look at footnotes, and they won't ever tell you why. Why they're using giants instead of, like, I don't know, other things, okay? Dante, he demands your imagination. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 13920.41,
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      "time_label": "3:52:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "It's kind of like how ants are afraid of humans. We're afraid of things that are giant in size and much bigger than us."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 13929.42,
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      "time_label": "3:52:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "start": 13933.65,
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      "time_label": "3:52:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "It's also just ironic because giants, we usually associate with greatness and good things. But this time... They're taking us to a bad place."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "3:52:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. What are giants made of? Clay. Rocks. Right? What is hell made of? Probably clay and rocks, right? What are angels made of? Divine light, right? What is heaven made of? Divine light. So I think that's what's happening here, okay? These giants are a literal expression of the landscape of hell, and the angels are a literal expression of the landscape of heaven. Okay? They're a manifestation of the elements that make heaven and hell possible. Okay? That's my guess."
    },
    {
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      "start": 13981.89,
      "end": 14009.29,
      "time_label": "3:53:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "I also think that with, let's say, goodness and sin or perverseness of goodness, there's something that's insatiable about falling into the abyss. And it's almost like a snowball that snowballs down. That I think it just gets heavier and heavier and keeps you down."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "time_label": "3:53:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yes. That's really interesting. Exactly. Right? So yeah, the angels are light. The giants are obviously heavy. Right? And maybe that's a metaphor for sin, where the sin... If you commit one sin, you keep on doing another until it becomes a giant, right? The sin becomes a giant. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And I also noticed that the giants are... They are basically silent, so they don't speak much. And I remember that the angels, they're often described as... They sing a lot."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "And so I think both angels and giants, they don't really speak human languages. But in heaven, the soul is elevated into... An expression of harmony and music. Yes. Whereas in hell, it's basically numbness and silence."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "That's beautiful. Yeah. That's good, actually. This is something I would have never come up with, okay? So both Carol and you, this is great. Yes. Okay? And that's what Divine Comedy is asking us to do, because they use our imagination. Okay? Donovan himself actually doesn't know what he's trying to do. Okay? He's just trying to excite our imagination. Yes. And also another point is that the angels, if they're singing, it's like high vibration, high pitch, right? And if the giants aren't speaking, it's low vibration, right?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "You think about the etymology of discord is literally discord. Yes. And accord is harmony, which is the opposite of what you just mentioned with heavenly music."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ofk53cyz-h0",
      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
      "source_title": "Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Wow. Okay. Okay. This is like really interesting now. Okay. Yes. Any other thoughts or comments? Okay. So again, that's why Inferno, the Divine Comedy, it's really the world's best literature, because it's constantly forcing us to imagine new possibilities. Okay? All right. So let's keep on going to 32."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "text": "Conto 32. Had I the crude and scrandal rhymes to soothe the melancholy. Whole upon which all the other circling cracks converge and rest. The juice of my conception would be pressed more fully. But because I feel their lack, I bring myself to speak, yet speak in fear. Okay."
    },
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      "time_label": "3:56:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Right. So that's why this music idea is so important, right? Because in heaven, it's this pure singing. Here, there's music, but it's like sighing and melancholizing and groaning and despair and apathy. Okay? So you can hear the music, but it's one of hell. Okay? Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "text": "For it is not a task to take in jest, to show the base of all the universe, not for a tongue that cries out, Mama, Papa. But may those ladies now sustain my verse, who helped Amphion when he walled up Thebes, so that my tale not differ from the fact. O rabble, miscreated past all others, there in the place of which it's hard to speak. Better if here you had not been goats or sheep. When we were down below in the dark well beneath the giant's feet and lower yet, with my eyes still upon the steep embankment, I heard this said to me, Watch how you pass, walk so that you not trample with your souls the heads of your exhausted wretched brothers. At this I turned and saw in front of me beneath my feet a lake that, frozen fast, had lost the look of water and seemed glass."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay. All right. Okay. So this is why Dante is such a genius. We are at the very heart of hell. And when you think of hell, you think of like fire and brimstone, right? And instead, at the very heart of hell is a frozen lake. Okay. And so he's just shocking. He's revolutionary. So this is something that we'll think a lot more about tomorrow. Okay. When I end Inferno and discuss why is it that at the center of hell, there is a lake that is a frozen lake rather than like this raging fire as we would expect. We will also meet Lucifer. And you would think that Lucifer is the king of hell. But when we actually meet Lucifer, he's not really the king of hell. Okay. So lots of contradictions, lots of paradoxes. And we will start to unravel them tomorrow. Okay. So we'll finish Inferno tomorrow morning and we'll start Purgatory tomorrow afternoon."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Fraud, Faction, and the Imagination That Manufactures Hell",
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      "start": 14313.36,
      "end": 14352.38,
      "time_label": "3:58:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "So please review what we've learned. Please go ahead and read, finish Inferno and read the first five cantos of Purgatory. I want to thank everyone for the great discussion today. I actually learned a lot from everyone today. A lot of your comments just blew my mind. Okay. I'm going to go home and think a lot more about some of your comments. And some of your ideas. But that's the ideal seminar, right? Where we're all learning from each other. Where we're all contributing our own individuality to the larger discussion. So thank you so much and great job today. Okay. I'll see everyone tomorrow."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay good morning uh welcome back any questions or comments from uh yesterday uh yes uh yeah i"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "i did a i got went down a rabbit hole about ulysses um and it's it's rife in the academic sources about like nobody really agrees on what ulysses is doing in there and why all academics seem to be contingent on this um he's in the he's in the realm of false counselors and he obviously he went on the the boat trip um and convinced his men we need to go to the end of the world and he gave false counselor to them but it's just a boatload of men there's no reason why giving false counselor to 50 people would end him in this level of hell and when the few places that we don't see so remember you know you could have been there two or three times in a fight and the advanced speak sinned because dante has this arrogance that you keep speaking about and so they they find certain points in the"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "in the canto to to really point that out but i thought it was important because i had a college professor who spoke about lord alfred tennyson's poem on ulysses right and it finishes with uh ulysses is an old man and he's sitting with his his son telemachus and he's like uh oh i'm so sad and the final line is i'm made weak by time and fate but strong in will to strive to seek to find and not to yield and tennyson is essentially doing what homer has done which is like maybe there's some there's some nobility in in both but you're sitting next to your son who you've abandoned your whole life yeah like like appreciate your son and quit quit going on out and um he this college professor brought it up because that final quote would be on uh pictures on students walls with like the moon landing and stuff and they would"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "and students were like yeah you get it like always go out go beyond your means be victor frankenstein um and he's like humanity's taking the wrong message that everybody has been trying to tell us now and so it's it's effective dante puts him there because he essentially is a false counselor to all of humanity up until today"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "right okay all right so that's really interesting um so let me make some comments first of all ulysses is there where he has been punished not because uh he sailed away from his family it's because of the trojan horse right so he counseled the greeks uh to devise a trojan horse and that's what he's punished for and that's pretty explicit in the divine comedy uh that's point one okay not not for misleading his man to the devs but for uh advising the greeks to use a trojan horse uh which destroyed troy which is um which and they are the ancestors to the romans that's point one point two is like what we need to remember is that at this time in history dante does not have access to homer uh he knows ulysses through the iniat uh because in the iniat it says explicitly that ulysses advised the greeks on the trojan horse him and"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "damides and that's why they're shoving together um point three is that if you actually read homer's odyssey it's a very different take on uh odysseus um i've taught the odyssey and the the odyssey is ultimately not about a journey outward but a journey home to his family and he comes home and realizes that what really matters is family and it's a family reunion so it goes counter it's really interesting but it goes counter to the popular western narrative that ulysses he is a romantic wanderer or explorer um so um what i should have done is actually taught homer then taught virgil then taught dante because they're it's a straight legacy okay uh virgil responded to homer and then don is responding to virgil and what's really interesting is that dante never read homer uh because at this time i you can't access the greek but homer and dante agree on everything so it's almost like"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "dante is the second coming of homer so it's really interesting that that way"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "yes maybe um virgil intentionally tried to make home and the odyssey look bad because they wanted to or he wanted to kill the greek culture right so he wanted to replace it with the roman culture and so he can like he talks bad about the odyssey and exactly and and this is something we'll go more"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "into later on but remember from last week you're going to see a lot of the greek culture in this last class, we talked about how the counterfeiter was arguing with Sinon, the man who tricked the Trojans into letting in the Trojan horse. They were arguing who is worse. And it was Virgil who created Sinon, right? So basically, if you think about it, if you just use your imagination, there's a counterfeiting of coin, and then there's a counterfeiting of poetry, right? So what he's really saying is, okay, master, I'm saying to Sinon, hey, maybe I counterfeited coin, but you counterfeited someone's poetry. You plagiarized someone's poetry. Isn't that much worse than counterfeiting coins? Because at this time in history, remember, counterfeiting coins is a really serious crime, especially in Florence, because they're very proud of their currency, which is considered pure gold, right? So we'll go back to that section. But yeah, that's a good point, okay?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Any more points? Yes?"
    },
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "So last night I was reading a journal entry by Manly P. Hall."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right, yes."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "text": "And it's just his commentary on the Divine Comedy. And what I thought was interesting relating to the question we discussed towards the end of class about why is hell frozen and it's not moving, is he separately not related to that question. And I quote, And then a few sentences later says, So if we think of then hell again, if there's no movement and it's all frozen, then surely that implies that it's not moving. And I quote, And it's because we're so deep in the inferno that there is so little will and desire and you're so far from connecting with the divine."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, exactly. They've basically given up on themselves, right? So it's really interesting. And I'll point out that occultists do read Divine Comedy literally. Like they really believe that Donnie had a near -death experience or he had visions of the afterlife. And they do take him literally. And today we will go into Dramatic Perspective. And I'm going to go into that in a minute. to see how they've put themselves in that position, that deep level of possession, which is something that they're really concerned about, right? Is it possible to be possessed by angels and demons? And Dante refers to this in The Divine Inferno. And we'll discuss this in depth. Okay? But yeah, the occult is really important idea. Occultists love Dante. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "Yeah. So yesterday I thought more about the Dante putting people who hijack our imagination lower than people who murder someone. one and or commit genocide right i accidentally committed genocide and like yes um and so what i don't understand is that does murdering not like kill someone's entire capacity to imagine anything because you can't imagine if you're in hell or in paradise right like you can't because you don't have a body and you don't have like worldly experiences so like you can't imagine at all and like if you hijack the imagination okay but but like you can still like get your imagination back if it's hijacked right but you can't get it back if you're dead yeah so does like a follow -up question would be if dante believes in reincarnation maybe so that's like a solution"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay yeah so donnie does say there's reincarnation um in paradise when beatrice is talking to him and saying look your souls are immortal right that that's explicit in divine comedy your souls are mortal so donnie does believe in the um uh in in the immortality of the soul um but to answer your question what's really important to understand is that for dante hell earth and heaven correspond with each other and what's really important is to maintain the dynamic creativity of the universe basically this is labfilm okay the universe we don't live on earth right because dante he says how japan depends on planet earth well it's the dark side right of the universe right well actually that's life forces our identity right so dante has this concept where he maintains maintain our capacity to imagine okay because that's a life force of the universe and um when you reduce people from the world that that"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "doesn't actually reduce the massive life force from the world because it's possible that a few people um have the imagination right so dante is very imaginative and he's able to change society it feels the imagination so one person as long as one person maintains our capacity I really like to think about it his capacity for imagination the entire universe still revolves okay it still moves the problem with counterfeiting or hijacking the imagination is that you're reducing the universe's overall capacity to be imaginative does that make sense so so so this is a counterintuitive idea but what matters is not a sum total of life in the universe what matters is a sum total of imagination in the universe and when you counterfeit the imagination and disrupt the connection between humanity and the divine then that reduces the the overall imagination in the universe and therefore it reduces the total life force in the universe yes"
    },
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      "text": "so"
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      "text": "if Dante would have been killed then there would have been another Dante at some point"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "um exactly I I think I think that's what Dante would say but at the same time and he's explicit about this right he is on a divine mission right in hell he doesn't have to fear the demons he doesn't have to fear uh anything because God has willed it right so when he wrote the divine comedy it's like I don't fear dying halfway and not completing the divine comedy I don't fear my marriage being burned I don't fear being brought to script because God has willed it you understand you is this complete faith that allows him to access the vine and complete the divine company that's something that Manny Hall would say as well right okay uh yes what was it that"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "allowed faranata to imagine that his son was dead in that if the Satan frozen in the bottom of the hell cannot imagine anything what mechanism was it that allowed faranata to because I remember that he says that he cannot notice things that are close to them but can sense things that are long past or long to come if in hell imagination is stripped away how could what mechanism did dante leverage to get farinata to believe that guido was dead right that's a really good point"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay so um this is a really hard question and i'll try my best but i think there's a difference between the imagination and the emotion okay the emotion is your connection with other people you're longing for your son you're longing for your wife you're longing for for god okay and the emotion can never be extinguished because it's tied to the soul so um even though farinata doesn't have the capacity to imagine he does have the capacity to long for his son right and that's why when dante said to him your son is burning in hell it's so anguishing for uh farinata because no no it was not for now it's cover conte okay it's cover conte um and he uh lacks imagination to think that donnie could be could be lying okay here in hell it's not possible for the souls to imagine that others could be deceiving them um and so he falls into"
    },
    {
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      "start": 813.95,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "tremendous anguish it doesn't make sense it's just different between the imagination and the emotion love right love is unifying force of the universe the imagination is the animating force of the universe and um the imagination is unique to us and the imagination is only is only available to those with a body okay all right so good question and uh again like scholars have been debating these questions for hundreds of years literally okay you're gonna find like hundreds of different commentaries online about dante so all we're doing is we're speculating here okay um any more this is great"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "by the way uh yes so it's got me thinking because everybody in hell doesn't want to be in hell so there's a there's a difference between imagination and desire they all desire for it to stop or is there like is there something going on there well if you remember"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "when they are crossing the akron river to come going to hell they desire it i mean donnie's explicitly remember the word desire right uh and donnie's surprised by this like why are people desiring to go to hell and the only reason why is they think they deserve it they think they think it's a release from whatever sin they they've done and something that we'll discuss later on where um if you if you think that the magnetic possession is possible right then you also have to think that inter -dimensional uh travel is possible you have to think that the soul can exists in different dimensions and when you do anything whether it's virtuous or whether it's sinful you your sin can uh trap trespass into other dimensions okay so like so like when you do something sinful your your soul is now locked in hell for in a certain place and and that that's what dante"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "is suggesting here where if you think about it okay the person commits uh a sin of lust and now he's in the plane of lust are you saying that's the only sin he committed are you saying he did nothing else with his life but but what i think donnie is suggesting is like the sin uh it corrupts a certain way so that the soul is trapped in a certain plane of hell but to understand that you need to also believe in the infinite dimensions of the soul and the fact that the soul across it exists across infinite dimensions and where whatever you do uh the soul becomes more anchored in certain dimension if that makes any sense okay and again if you read many paul in the occultist he does go into this okay okay great yeah okay let's let's"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "go to line 25 the denny where it flows in austria the dawn beneath its frozen sky have never made for their course to so thick a veil in winter as there was here for had mount to bernick or pietropanus mountain crashed upon it not even at the edge would it have creeped and as the croaking frog sits with its muzzle about the water in the season when the peasant woman often dreams of gleaning so live it in the ice up to the place where shame can show itself were those sad shades whose teeth were chattering with note like storks each kept his face bent downward steadily their mouth bore witness to the cold they felt just as their eyes proclaimed their sorry hearts when i had looked around a while my eyes turned toward my feet and saw two locked so close the hair upon their heads had intermingled do tell me you whose chests"
    },
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      "text": "are pressed so tight i said who are you they bent back their necks and when they'd lifted up their faces toward me their eyes which wept upon the ground before shed tears down on their lips until the cold held fast the tears and locked their lids still more no clamp has ever fastened plank to plank so tightly and because of this they butted each other like two rams such was their fury and one from whom the cold had taken both his ears who kept his face bent low then said why do you keep on staring so at us if you would like to know who these two are that valley where vicenzio descends belong to them and to their father alberto they came out of one body and you can search all kaina you'll never find a shade more fit to sit within this ice not him who at one blow had chest and shadow"
    },
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      "text": "shattered by arthur's hand and not focaccia and not the sinner here who so impedes my vision with his head i can't see past him his name was macaroni if you're tuscan now you know who he has been unless you keep me talking any longer know that i was commission de Pazziy i'm waiting for carlino to absolve me and after that i saw a thousand faces may dog like by the cold for which i shudder and always will when i face frozen forwards and while we were advancing toward the center to which all weight is drawn eyes shivering in that eternal cold shadow i know no man for whom is the warmest damned radiance divine by his fierce form his not if it was will or destiny or chance but as i walked among the heads i struck my foot hard in the face of one weeping he chided them why trample me if you've not"
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      "text": "come to act the revenge of monteparty why do you molest me and i my master now wait here for me that i may clear up just one doubt about him then you can make me hurry as you will my guide stood fast and i went on to ask of him who still was cursing bitterly who are you that rebukes another so and who are you who go through and to nora striking the cheeks of others he replied to roughly even if you were alive i am alive and can be precious to you if you want fame was my reply for i can set your name among my other notes and he to me i want the contrary so go away and do not harass me your flattery is you useless in this valley at that i grabbed him by the scruff and said you'll have to name yourself to me or else you won't have"
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      "text": "even one hair left up here and he to me though you should strip me bald i should shall not tell you who i am or show it not if you pound my head a thousand times his hairs were wound around my hand already and i had plucked from him more than one tuft while he was barking and his eyes stared down when someone else cried out what is it baka isn't the music of your jaws enough for you without your bark what devil's at you and now i said you traitor bent on evil i do not need your talk for i shall carry true news of you and that will bring you shame be off he answered tell them who you like but don't be silent if you make it back about the one whose tongue was now so quick here he laments the silver of the frenchman i saw you then can say i'm"
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      "text": "not going to tell you who you are but i'm going to tell you him of duera down there where all the sinners are kept cool and if you asked who else was there in ice one of the baccaria and besides you he had his skullet sliced right through by florence johnny does this so the nary i believe lies there with ganelon and tabeldello he who unlocked venza while it slept we had already taken leave of him when i saw two shades frozen in one hole so that one once had served as the other's cap and just as he who's hungry chews his bread one sinner dug his teeth into the other right at the place where brain is joined to nape no differently had tidiest not the temples of nalapas out of indignation than this one chewed the skull and other parts oh you who show with such bestial sign your hatred for the one"
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      "text": "on whom you feed tell me the cause i said we can agree that if you quarrel with him is justified then knowing who you are and what's this what's his sin i shall repay you yet on earth above if that with which"
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      "text": "i speak does not dry up okay all right so we are in the final circle of hell and it's a completely frozen lake where everyone is submerged in the lake and just freezing they can't move they can only feel pain and um there are also divisions within this lake and their name they're given and they are ranked according to the what they betrayed okay so at the outer layer there's the betrayal of family so basically two brothers who killed each other okay betrayal of family okay then as you go further down there is the betrayal of country okay so the example is baka and who is baka baka is someone who um fought for the florentines with dante but he was not loyal to the florentines and at a battle a crucial battle between the guelphs and the gilabines he betrayed the guelphs by cutting off the hand of the standard bearer okay the standard"
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      "text": "bearer if you know your uh medieval battles the standard bearer is essentially like captured a flag or the king in the game of chess right uh the standard bearer is what gives uh direction hope and focus to the army so this caused the guelphs to lose a major battle okay and that's why um baka is being punished and donnie recognizes him and demands that he speak up mark is like no i'd rather be forgotten okay so lower down is the picture of country then you have the betrayal of um friends and then you have the betrayal of guests okay so again the steering wheel divine comedy is it's full of paradoxes if you actually look at this you would think that it would be the opposite right like Beachy of guests would be the least punish and the most punished would be patrol family because family is tied together by blood so what's going on"
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      "text": "here why would dante construct his knife Circle of treachery in such a manner okay what's the criteria that he's using to judge the sin uh yes i think it's about how it reflects to the universe"
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      "text": "so if you betray a family it only concerns yours whereas a guest can really concern anyone on earth yes so it disrupts trust yes thank you yes i think in the middle east as well like in iran or like in"
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      "text": "israel i guess to treat a guest you have to put up the best hospitality it's because it's stranger"
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      "text": "i think it's underlying the same principle uh kong well i think you have a great idea but i'm not sure if it was if that was the case i feel like friends would be a smaller circle than country and so those two circles would be the opposite and so maybe we could work that into the new theory"
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      "text": "you will right you choose yes because you don't choose your family you might not even choose the"
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      "text": "country you're born on but you choose your friends and you invite your guests exactly yes i think i think that's a great idea and i think that's a great reflection idea and it's about what is contrary to the nature of the universe and as humans with bodies we are guests so he's asking what would god really never do of course he would never betray these other groups but they are all subsumed within the group of guests under god so it's really the major violence against god"
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      "text": "is against guests okay great okay yeah so i think everyone's right okay so to summarize it's the idea that um we have responsibility to protect love and imagination and that's what we're doing in the universe okay without love there can be no imagination love is based on trust so the more trust you create in the universe the greater the capacity for love in the universe therefore the greater capacity for imagination um again the idea of free will where we all have a choice whether or not to enter in a contract right the idea of a social contract we choose to enter a social contract and what's really important is to honor those social contract the thing about family is you don't choose to enter in a social contract you're just stuck with a family okay you don't choose your country you're stuck with your country but you do choose your friends and you do choose"
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      "text": "who to invite into your household okay and and um also what's really important is the idea of guests like the iron law of most society is to treat guests with hospitality this is true for most of human history not just the middle east okay anywhere in the world okay you don't really appreciate this but at this time if a stranger comes from far away you have an urgent responsibility to treat him with the most utmost respect okay nowadays you're like oh immigrants let's kill immigrants no no no immigration for most of human history was really rare and what's much common was just the traveler right and so if you saw a traveler you had to treat that person with you had to treat that person with utmost respect and hospitality and the reason why is well if you kill that person then no one could ever travel right no one could ever never ever explore"
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      "text": "and um in in the greek mythology in the greek society what they believe that every guest could potentially be a god in disguise so to kill a guest would be to upset the gods themselves okay and so uh sorry did you have a question or comment"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "um yeah so what's then even worse probably is that if you're a guest you um disrespect the host because that's what paris for example did when he was he was a guest in greece and then he stole helen or when the greece were basically guests in troy and then they destroyed troy yes exactly yes"
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      "text": "um that's a really special case this is something i never really thought about where the gas purposefully uh betrays the host uh but yeah but that's a great question for us to think about and this is something that uh if dante knew about he would definitely put uh paris in here as well yeah that's a really great comment um but does this make sense you guys okay unless you have trust society cannot function at all right i mean think about how um you like like for example the most basic the most basic thing is um you often have self -disputes right if there's a war going on you invite the opposing General for a dinner right and like if you just kill the General like there there could be no reconciliation there could be no no mediation right so this idea of like honoring guests it's an Iron Law throughout all human society okay it's"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "true in China it's true everywhere right and the reason why is that if you didn't have this law so that society just could not function okay there could be no basis for any contract okay all right so that's what's going on here all right let's keep on going"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "text": "kanto 33 that sinner raised his mouth from his fierce meal then used the head that he had ripped apart and back he wiped his lips upon its hair then he began you want me to renew despairing pain that presses at my heart even as i think back before i speak but if my words are seed from which the food fruit is infamy for this betrayer whom i know you'll see me speak and weep at once i don't know who you are and what may you've come down here and yet you surely seem for what i hear to be florentine you're to know i was count ugolino and this one here archbishop rubieri and now i'll tell you why i'm his neighbor there's no need to tell you that because of his malicious tricks i first was taken then was killed since i had trusted him him however that which you cannot have heard that is"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "text": "the cruel death devised for me you now shall hear and know if he has wronged me a narrow window in the eagle's tower which now through me is called the hunger tower a cage in which still others will be locked had through its opening already showed me several moons when i dreamed that bad dream which rent the curtain of the future for me this man appeared to me as lord and master he hunted down the wolf and its young whelps a man appeared to me as lord and master he hunted down the wolf and its young whelps a man appeared to me as lord and master he hunted down the wolf and its young whelps a man appeared to me as lord and master he hunted down the wolf and its young whelps a поn the mountain that prevents the peace is from seeing luca and with lean and keen and practiced hounds he sent"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "up front before him walandi and sismondi and la franDEY but after a brief course it seemed to me that both the father and the sons were weary i seemed to see their flanks torn by sharp fang when i woke at daybreak i could hear my sons who were together with me there weeping within their sleep asking for bread you'll be cruel indeed if thinking what my heart foresaw you you don't already grieve and if you don't weep now when would you weep they were awake by now the hour drew near at which our food was usually brought and each because of what he dreamed was anxious below i heard them nailing up the door of that appalling tower without a word i looked into the faces of my son i did not weep within i turned to stone they wept and my poor little anthem said father you look so what is wrong with you"
    },
    {
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      "start": 1953.2,
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      "text": "at that i shed no tears and all day long and through the night that followed did not answer until another sun had touched the world as soon as a thin ray had made its way into that sorry prison and i saw reflected in four faces my own gave out of my grief i bit at both my hands and they who thought i'd done that out of hunger immediately rose and told me father it would be a miracle if you would let me die for you father be far less painful for us if you ate of us for you clothed us in this sad flesh it is for you to strip it off then i grew calm to keep them from more sadness through that day in the next we all were silent o hard earth why did you not open up but after we had reached the fourth day gado throwing himself outstretched down at"
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    {
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      "text": "my feet implored me father why do you not help me and there he died and just as you see me i saw the other three fall one by one between the fifth and the sixth at which now blind now blind i started groping over each and after they were dead i called"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "them for two days then fasting had more force than grief okay all right so the story is um at this time in history count you you lino is one of the most famous italians he's a great military strategist uh of pisa and um eventually because he is so ambitious he's a very machiavellian figure um he will change alliances always and then he falls in the lines of the archbishop who then betrays him in order to obtain more power for himself what the archbishop does is that he locks him and his and his children his sons into a cell and throws away the key they don't know this but no one's coming to them and giving them food so they're just starving to death and the um urban legend is that uh count you gonna know cannibalize his children in order to keep himself alive um first of all we discussed the idea of symmetry in"
    },
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      "text": "the divine comedy okay do you guys know uh and this this is like the second last contour the penultimate contour right what is the penultimate contour in paradise that is the first this do you guys remember and and that's and that's what's uh brilliant about dante he's always doing symmetry in order to excite your imagination so here this is the father cannibalizing his children you guys remember in the panama canto paradise what the issue was there what they were talking about uh in uh the panama candle of paradise basically paradise 32. what did we spend a lot of time discussing babies in heaven yes do you see the symmetry here right and we we back then bernard was telling dante why is it that in the seat of in the in the red rose right beside god you have the greatest uh matriarchs in history eve mary and rachel and ruve but you also had"
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      "text": "babies and don is like wait a minute i thought virgil told me babies were all in limbo and but you had these babies and don we'd and and more than that you could change it into a baby and you can write a letter and parents but basically we we decide that it was because of the unconditional love of parents right if a baby died if a parent committed himself to unconditional love praying to god committed to good works that effort would allow the child to ascend to the imperium and here with the complete opposite right it's an opposite it's it's it's the inverse where the father is democratizing his sons in order to um survive okay okay so that's the beauty of the divine comedy you will find the symmetry everywhere okay all right so um what is going on here why is uh count ugandlino biting on the archbishop and why are they forcing"
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    {
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      "text": "in place and why is this happening for all"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "eternity yes i guess in the simple sense he's just trying to exact an appropriate revenge and that this desire which is still present in hell will just continue forever why are they in a frozen lake because they have no imagination to move them towards anything other than what they"
    },
    {
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      "text": "desire uh yes could it be that they've thrown away their free will because there's i'll find the line but he's basically asking you know father why don't you help me implying that he's looking for that external help rather than earlier on we spoke about how you can through your own free will help yourself"
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      "text": "yes any other comments or thoughts yes and also like betrayal kind of freezes your relationship"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "with the others and then like the others will also like no longer trust anyone because of the source of like betrayal so like you are also freeze in the lake yourself after you betray the"
    },
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      "text": "others yes exactly any any more okay yeah exactly right they're in a frozen lake these are frozen literally in time and they're in a frozen lake and they're in a frozen lake and they're in a frozen lake and they're in a frozen lake all the remember is the betrayal and their first for revenge the hatred okay and the punishment is apt because just as um the archbishop shall force the count to betray his sons and cannibalize his sons now the count is cannibalizing uh the archbishop but it's all futile because they're all in hell uh but he doesn't care because he's stuck in that moment okay he's not considering considering the absurdity of the situation he's just stuck in that moment and that's the idea of frozen lake okay that's why hell at the very bottom everyone everyone is a frozen lake because the treachery has frozen them in that moment of treachery and they"
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      "text": "can never escape out of it and they they lack the capacity to have free will to have the love the imagination to think beyond this moment of betrayal all they focus on is how to get back at this person for the betrayal okay and that's why uh betrayal is the worst punishment because the universe moves and betrayal treachery freezes the universe in place okay it reduces the capacity for imagination okay does it make sense great all right let's keep on uh going this is the very last oh yeah sorry sorry"
    },
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      "text": "keep on going we're not finished yet um line 76 when he had spoken this with eyes of rye again he gripped the sad story skull in his teeth which like a dogs were strung down to the bone ah pisa you the scandal of the peoples of that fair land where sea is heard because your neighbors are so slow to punish you may then kaprar and gorgona move and build a hedge across the arnold's mouth so that you may drown every soul in you for if count ugolino was reputed to have betrayed your fortresses there was no need to have his sons endure such torment oh thieves renewed their years were innocent and young brigada to ubuchoni and the other two my song has named above we passed beyond where frozen water wraps a rugged covering still other sinners who were not who were not bent but flat upon their bags"
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      "text": "so tante is moved by the story and he's upset about what what about the story really upsets him and makes him very confused yes that count ugolino was forced to sit and why"
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      "text": "why well why would someone be punished in exactly the same way if they didn't instigate the betrayal"
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      "text": "okay so um he thinks that count you i don't just got what he deserved because he did betray pisa and the people the peasants were angry at this okay but there's a problem here yes i think maybe"
    },
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      "text": "the problem is that uh count ugolino's sons were actually tortured in the same way yeah why are"
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      "text": "the sons in prison the sons did nothing wrong first of all why why are the sins sons in prison i believe it's to torture count ugolino but i don't"
    },
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      "text": "understand why they were subject to the same torture as ugolino did"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "but this is just a historical question right why are children being punished"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "along with the fathers yes presumably they would grow up and try and exact"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "vengeance exactly right this is true for most cultures at this time you if you kill the father you have to kill the sons as well because now the sons are morally obligated to avenge the enemy sons as well because now the sons are morally obligated to avenge the enemy the father okay and so don is like saying this is unjust okay and what he's saying is like we have to remember we have to have faith that there are higher laws of justice that govern us and to punish the sons with a father yes i understand the logic i understand that it's necessary because you want to avoid wars right because at this time in history family feuds are a real thing okay but he says i understand all this but it's still unjust okay and again at this time in history it's pretty revolutionary you guys know the story of romeo and juliet right well"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "it's this time okay the montagues and the capulets it is this time these italians city states in verona right these feuds these family feuds that go on for generations okay it is this time in history okay uh let's keep on going"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "line 94 they're very weeping there won't let them weep and grief that finds a berry in their eyes turns inward to increase their agony because their first tears freeze into a cluster and like a crystal visor fill up all the hull that is underneath the eyebrow and though because of cold my every sense had left its dwelling in my face just as a callous has no feeling nonetheless i seem to feel some wind now and i said my master who has set this gust in motion for isn't every vapor quenching and i said my master who has set this gust in motion for isn't every vapor quenching down here and he to me you soon shall be where your own eye will answer that when you shall see the reason why this wind blasts from above and one of those sad sinners in the cold cross cried to us all souls who are so cruel"
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      "text": "that this last place has been assigned to you take off the hard veils from my face so that i can release the suffering that fills my heart before lament freezes again to which i answered if you'd have me help you then tell me who you are if i don't free you master i'll be your master and you'll be my master and you'll be my master and you'll be my master i go to the bottom of the ice he answered then i'm fra alberigo the one who tended fruits in a bad garden and here my figs have been repaid with dates but then i said are you already dead and he to me i have no knowledge of my body's fate within the world above for patola patola mia has this privilege quite frequently the soul falls here before it has been thrust away by atropos and that you may with much more willingness to break"
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      "text": "these glazed tears from off my face know this as soon as any soul becomes a traitor as what i was then a demon takes its body away and keeps that body in its power until its ears have run their course completely the soul falls headlong down into the cistern and up above perhaps there still appears the body of the shade that winters here behind me you must know him if you've just come down he is sara broncodoria for many years he has been thus pent up i said to him i think that you deceive me for broncodoria is not yet dead he eats and drinks and sleeps and puts on clothes there in the malibranca stitch above where sticky pitch boils up mikhaili zanke had not had still not come he said to me when this one together with a kinsman who had done the treachery together with him left a devil in his stead"
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      "text": "instead his body but now reach out your hand to me and i'll be there for you and open my eyes and yet i did not open them for him and it was courtesy to show him rudeness ah genoese a people strange to every constraint of custom full of all corruption why have you not been driven from the world for with the foulest spirit of romania i found one of you such that for his acts in soul he bathes already in koshitas and up above appears alive in body okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "so we have met the worst offender okay these are people who betrayed their guests they invite their guests to dinner and now they're protected by the laws of hospitality right but they don't care they betray their guests and the moment they do that what happens is their sin is so bad they are they are automatically their souls are taken down to the ninth circle they are trapped in the frozen lake and the demon takes possession of their body okay and they're not going to be able to get out of there and they're not going to be able to get out of there and they're not going to be able to get out of there and uh the example here is branca doria um and donnie actually knows this person and donnie knows this person is alive and he's saying that now a demon took over his body okay so here's a question for you do"
    },
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      "text": "you think demonic possession or energetic possession isn't real any thoughts any comments and again there are no right answers but i'm curious as to what you think yes well if you"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "grow up in southeast asia in malaysia singapore there's voodoo magic as we all know um so then oh in africa like if you grow up in these regions of the world it's impossible for you to conceive that a ghost or demon cannot take"
    },
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      "text": "possession of a human being because you see it all the time wow not all the time like okay but but you can elaborate on this because why is it that like in these societies you see"
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      "text": "ghosts and demons but we don't uh i recently moved back"
    },
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      "time_label": "47:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "but okay so um because i think it's because of the religion of the local people this kind of magical practices is a lot especially in malaysia right like there's a thing like if you dig out that man's body and you take some liquid from his jar and you can make it into love potion the most common one everybody knows in malaysia it's a thing okay like yeah and so like yeah so then then you can make the man fall in love with you or women and then that's common practice and you can do a lot of these how does thematic possession work um so in udu is that you do this spell and then you have this doll and you step in right and then like in in malaysia or you know there are a lot like you you ask this guy to come to your house you pay him and then to cause that"
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      "text": "guy and then that yeah there's a whole hospital"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "so so what you're saying is do you do you know about this i don't know about this but but go ahead"
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      "text": "From Catholic worldview, Lydia in the Bible, or whoever, I forgot the lady's name, but like there are people who are possessed by demons and Jesus had to cast it down, but they go to the pigs and the pigs drown themselves. So in Bible it's very common, in Malaysia it's very common, and in Africa."
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      "text": "Actually, speaking of, my husband and I have recently watched a Tucker Carlson podcast with a priest who is an exorcist. And actually, you know, it's an, you know, in many cultures, it's actually an ongoing thing. And even in China, I've heard that, for example, in the Northeast, there are animal spirits. And also growing up in Hong Kong, under certain bridges, there are people doing voodoo stuff. You can pay someone. You can pay someone to, let's say, stab a pin into a doll or hit someone, hit someone's effigy."
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      "text": "Okay. So voodoo is across cultures, basically."
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      "text": "Yeah. If you look at University of Hong Kong, there's a huge tomb, okay, in the library. Have you been to University of Hong Kong?"
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      "text": "I have. I don't know about this."
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      "text": "Yeah. If you think out of all, like Hong Kong is such a epitome, you know, of all these practices, feng shui and all that. But if you go to University of Hong Kong, there's a Li Jiacheng built for his wife, and the library looks like a tomb, literally, to calm her spirit. So there's a lot of this kind of practice where people believe that."
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      "text": "So you guys believe in this stuff. I'm saying, like, if you don't believe in this stuff, what are your objections to it? Who is like, this can't possibly exist?"
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      "text": "Yes? I think that when someone commits a sin that seems to have a character that is beyond their normal character, that there's a life force inside of the sin, it's easy and tempting to assume that. There is a vortex of energy that creates consciousness that is separate from their own that has come into them. But it just strikes me that this is cope. This is people who really don't want to accept that maybe someone they know, their friend or their family could do a sin that was so out of character."
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      "text": "Okay. All right. That's very interesting. Okay. Let me ask you this question. Okay. Did we have a... Let me ask you this question. Does anyone want to comment on... Does anyone want to comment on how he or she has changed after reading Divine Comedy? Like, we've spent the past week reading Divine Comedy. We still have a few more days left. But does anyone want to reflect on how he or she has changed after encountering Divine Comedy for the first time? After reading it, after thinking about it? Do you think you've changed as a person? Do you think? Yes?"
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      "text": "I don't believe that it can change people. Because before that... Maybe people thought, oh, I just cheat. I do whatever I can. Nobody will, you know, get to know more about me. And I just hide myself. So, but after, you know, Divine Comedy, maybe some people are saying can have confession. Maybe some people think they're guilty, right? Because..."
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      "text": "Okay. Yeah. I'm not asking this as a thought experiment. I'm just asking, like, have you personally felt different after reading Divine Comedy? Yes?"
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      "text": "Yes. Yes."
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      "text": "Can you explain this?"
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      "text": "It's hard to put into words. But for me, especially after Paradiscio, as well as as we go through line by line, the Divine Comedy, for me, I feel like it's alluding to a larger truth. And it's making me more open to the fact that there are things beyond this universe that I don't really understand. Because I'm a scientist, engineer by training. And then later on, I went into business. So, it's quite, you know, framework changing for me."
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      "text": "I don't know how to put it. Have you felt any physical changes to your body?"
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      "text": "Like the first night, kind of like the first night, I think I mentioned this to some of our classmates. Like, I found it hard to sleep. So, the first few nights, even Paradiscio, right? Supposedly this good thing. But I found it hard to rest. Rest as per my usual routine, mainly because I find all these imageries and all these things kind of kicking off thoughts in myself, right? Wondering about the nature of good and, you know."
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      "text": "So, these visions were appearing before you, and you're trying to wrestle with these visions."
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      "text": "Okay, that's interesting. Similar to in hell, right? Like, just, you know, you mentioned something about trying to square a circle, right? Like the fact that there is Muhammad in there. And there is things about sodomy and homosexuality. And like, I find myself trying to answer questions that weren't there before. And like, coming up with, oh, should I go talk to different people I know? And so, I don't know. I don't, I do think there is. I just don't know how to, you know."
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      "text": "Okay, yes. I feel like there's way more awareness and consciousness about the people we meet, the people we meet. The people we love, and the people who loved us. And I feel like, first of all, it's very tiring. So, every time, like, even though we have four hours of class, I feel like super tired at the end, often take a nap. And also, I felt in dreams, I thought of people that I forgot. And so, you rethink about certain moments of your life and how it's linked to love, especially."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Wow, that's beautiful. Thank you so much. So, you're expanding your consciousness. Your connection to the cosmos. Right. Okay. Anyone else have?"
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      "text": "This will sound extremely strange, but a lot of my lymph nodes started draining when I really studied the Divine Comedy. I think because my nervous system was really relaxing. And genuinely, a lot of, like, waste product from my body was being expelled."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Wow. Okay, so you felt some physical changes. Okay. Anyone else? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Yeah, kind of. I kind of felt the same, because I dreamed, like, a lot more frequently for these few days. And also, like, I kind of agree with what both of them said. I feel like I kind of reexamined my connection and relationship with the others. And then I kind of see, like, how it is so important to me that I have to cherish them. And also, like, at the same time, I was kind of, like, an atheist before reading the Divine Comedy. Now, I cannot say that I entirely believe that God exists. But I feel like I'm kind of... I'm kind of, like, reexamining what I used to believe."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. Great. Thank you so much. Any other?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes? Similar to the other classmates. I think dreams have been a bit different in the last few weeks. Like, I remember on the first day we read the Divine Comedy, I had, like, quite a vivid nightmare. And I don't really have nightmares very often. The only way I can try and understand it, I think, is usually in day -to -day life. We don't really think about morality very much and its effect on us or others. So we're kind of numbed. But obviously, in the last week or so, yeah, it's every day. Yeah, thinking about things we don't usually think about and maybe raising the consciousness."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, let me ask you this. Has anyone tried psychedelics in this class? Yes? Can you talk about your psychedelic experience? Well, first of all, what did you try? Psychedelic mushrooms."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "A couple of times last year. So it wasn't, like, extreme, but still, like, enough to feel, like, some extra forces. So it's really about the same thing, like, social awareness. So you feel, like, positive and negative energy when you, like, you feel happy and loved close to your friends. And you feel really insecure in some environment that's, like, negative."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So I want to confirm this, okay? Your psychedelic experience is very similar to you reading the Divine Comedy."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "It could be, but, like, it's really hard to compare. And I think, like, you can't reach this level of awareness just by reading or meditation. Like, it's really, like, physical, visual, and about love, like, it's really strong. And you can't, like, there's a hundred percent chance you feel something with this experience. Whereas by reading, it's maybe, like, a couple percent, but a bit, a bit. But it's hard to compare it."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "I actually would differ on that because... I've also done transcendental meditation when I was a child. And I had a similar experience with Jay, which is one night I had a vision. I haven't had a vision for a long time since I was younger. So, and I've done other mind -opening things. So I would say they're different in every way. It's just that there's something... Precious or different about the reading and going through this journey."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. So my argument would be, well, that's because you have not fully read Divine Comedy, right? We're just stretching the surface. If you really commit to it, maybe it'd be similar. But did you want to share your experience? Yeah, I have to agree with, against you."
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      "text": "The end point of a lot of, like, mushroom trips, maybe less for LSD, is basically the message of this. Yes. Where, like, imagine if this is crystal clear, your own revelations at the end of a trip are like slight flaws in a crystal. So it's your personality rewriting the truth that is contained here. And so it's very strange that when you really try to unlock your brain, this is the kind of message that you end up with."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, this is, like, really strange. Yeah. Let me ask you, guys, let me ask you another question. Has anyone had an intense religious experience? Okay. Yes. Can you explain to us your intense religious experience? Just in your life. Like, if you go to church."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "Yeah, yeah. There was definitely one. That's what made me actually converted to Christianity. So I always, so after I went to Malaysia when I was 12, I lived in a pastor's family. And just, like, two years after that, I wasn't convinced about Christianity. I was, oh, that's cool. Bible stories are awesome. And then there was one month where I had nightmares every night where I had this visit from hell, basically. And I'm afraid to go to bed every night. Because I know what's waiting for me in my dreams. And there was nothing traumatic happening in my life. There was no exam stress. There was no, you know. And then I was just terrified. And then my pastor, dad, and mom were like, well, read the Bible verse out loud in your room and recite it. And that was the only night I didn't have a nightmare. And the girl next to me, poor thing, she had a nightmare that was really gruesome."
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      "text": "She said, did you leave your room and come to my room now? I'm like, I'm so sorry. Maybe I shouldn't have read the Bible out loud. My bad. And then so that kind of really convinced me of, like, hell existed. And so I had to scream the name of Jesus to get out of that nightmare. And then from that whole month of torture is over. Like, if anybody swear to me, oh, there's no God in the world. I'm like, fuck you. Like, come to my life. Be in that month. And then, like, explain to me why is there all these crazy things that just make me, yeah, not being able to not believe there's no spiritual world."
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      "text": "Let me confirm what you're saying. You're in Malaysia, and there's a lot of voodoo magic in Malaysia. So it's possible there are lots of these spirits roaming around."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "Yeah."
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      "text": "And these spirits were literally, like, knocking on your door. But once you found some incantations, like, you know, some Bible verses, it changed your energy field as so to create a force field around you."
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      "text": "Of protection. To protect you. That's really interesting. Yeah, and I went to the next girl's room, and she was like, Anna, I never had a nightmare ever in my life. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, you didn't have the nightmare I do now. I'm so sorry, baby. You know, the ghost left me and went to your room. Sorry."
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      "text": "Okay. So then the question is, why does this happen? Why is it, like, when you read the divine comedy, you have these dreams? And why is it, like, even your body physically changes? Why?"
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      "text": "Yes? I could see this as a priming. So in psychology, there's something called priming where you put something into your mind. And so to have these words by reading about love, will, and hope, it, like, just, so you have these words, and so in every interaction you have, you think of this, and so it really changed what you're talking, because, like, if you just read about love, and then you're talking to your mother, then obviously you're going to think about this, and so this is how it changes, like, the aspect about priming, putting words into your head, and then always associating with this."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, okay? This is what a psychologist would tell you. It's all priming, right? Because they've done experience where if you, in the morning, what you do is you get some sunlight, and you put on some really nice music, you'll feel better about yourself, and you'll have a nicer day. Whereas if you don't go outside, and you put on some really sad music, you're going to have a really bad day, okay? So a lot of it is priming, a lot of it's self -perception, okay? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I loved having that conversation with her. We actually had a previous conversation in the elevator, which probably primed our later comment about music, but actually when I had the recent vision, it reminded me of previous visions where it felt like a resonance with the universe, where I could see things in just a different dimension and different colors. Yeah. So resonance with the rest of the universe, that doesn't happen all the time for a lot of reasons, but it's resonance, harmony, that concordance that kind of comes when there's a really powerful work of art or mind -opening that's happening."
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      "text": "Okay, yes, okay, I understand that, but I'm trying to figure out the psychedelic experience then. Explain to me how psychedelics work then. You explained how divine comedy works, it's priming, yes, but psychedelics?"
    },
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      "text": "So first of all, like, psychedelics, what's different is that there's, like, 100 % chance that it will change you, like, you will feel different. So it's often seen as a trip where, like, you basically lose your consciousness and everything you know or knew, and it basically makes you wear more close to nature, where you forget the conception of, like, technology, money, possession. And so during a couple of hours... Between, like, four to eight hours, you just feel basically like an animal, where you rethink everything, you basically, like, also you can't use your phone, right, because, like, it's so not human that it changes you."
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      "text": "But no, no, I'm trying to figure out the neurological mechanism that allows for... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but just one last question, okay? What's a neurological mechanism? You've explained priming, how do you explain psychedelics?"
    },
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      "text": "I think it's, like, some molecule, like, psychocybin. Or, like, something like that."
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      "text": "Okay, yes? I think you're referring to psilocin, which is the thing that breaks down from the mushrooms, but I think it all comes down to a molecule, I think, called tryptamine, which... So basically in your brain, there's a molecule that constrains your perception. So imagine your eyes are seeing fractals all the time, and that your brain is basically organizing the sense data from those fractals into reality. And then if you boost a certain chemical a lot, you start to see the fractals. You start to see the fractals that your brain is using to perceive reality, and this happens internally as well for your mind and being."
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      "text": "So if I extrapolate on what you're saying, you're saying that reality itself is much more complex, much more vibrant, much more colorful than we could ever imagine. Way, way more complex. And then what these psychedelics do is they basically cancel out your filter so you see more of reality, right? But all that's saying is, like, maybe demons and angels actually do exist, right? I mean, is that the possibility?"
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      "text": "I don't want to say 100%, but you get that sense."
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      "text": "And so possession is also possible, right? Because the idea is they exist, they're floating around us, and depending on your mood, depending on your state of mind, they can come into you, they can leave you, right? Is that a possibility? Okay, so let me ask you this really weird question. Do any of you... While we're in the divine comedy, do you feel intuitively as though Dante has entered you? Do you think at some level Dante has taken possession of you? Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. You first, and then..."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because I think... I don't know why you come here to this classroom, but I do because I think I've just been exiled, you know? I just, you know, I don't know. I think I'm out of the social system. Right now, it's because maybe I do my part -time job, and I don't just always like other people to go to work all day long. So maybe that makes me feel like Dante, you know? I'm just being driven away from the mainstream."
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      "text": "I'm thinking like physically, Dante has taken possession. Yes?"
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      "text": "I think so. But I'm lucky because I studied the Aeneid when I was 18 in Latin, just luckily. Yes. And I, for some reason, have my own Beatrice in my real life. Like a girl who I'm super in love with, who is now dating somebody who knows lots about wine. Yes. So, in a strange sense, this is, I do feel him inside me, in that sense."
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      "text": "Okay. And how do you feel it? How do you know he's inside you?"
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      "text": "Because there seems to be an energy directing me to be kinder to strangers and to spread more love that feels very physical because of how much power and energy it has, but that I've never been able to conjure in myself just from a desire to be good."
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      "text": "But how do you know it's Dante, not an angel or another spiritual being? Like, like, like what differentiates this from?"
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      "text": "Well, I don't want to presume. I think it's dangerous to think that an angel can come into you."
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      "text": "Well, through his work. Yes. Okay. I just don't want to think that an angel has come into me because it's a very slippery slope about what you might think. Okay."
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      "text": "Yeah. So, so that's what great art is. Great art becomes part of a universal consciousness. And by reading it, if you read it well, I'm not saying if you read it like, you know, the way we're reading it, but I'm saying like, if you read it over years and years, and you continue to have these visions and you continue to have these spiritual experiences and you continue to practice divine comedy in your life, then eventually, Dante is going to take possession of all of you. And he's going to reveal things to you that were once unimaginable to you before. And it's very similar to a religious experience. It's a very similar to a psychedelic experience. Yes."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Actually, professor, I would really appreciate it if you could share the changes that you experienced yourself as well, because like, if we went through like the divine comedy within the week, and we all experienced some changes to a certain extent, and then you spend four years on it, I think you definitely experienced a lot more than we did. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So I'll tell you some of my changes, okay? First of all, what's really obvious to me is, I feel a lot lighter, like physically a lot lighter as though I am almost like floating in the air. Okay? Because, you know, we're in China, like every day, it's a pain in the ass, right? Because, you know, like, we're walking the streets. There are scooters flying around, okay? When you go to the restaurant, often the food is going to be, you know, it's gonna give you food poisoning, okay? And then you might get in an argument with someone on, you know, it's a very common thing in China. So when that happens, what I feel is really heavy, you know, like, just my blood boiling, and just... And just like, you know, like, pure hatred, and just pure anger, right? Just like, just really, I'm just really annoyed, okay, because like, I love walking. And Beijing is not a walking city, and it annoys me, I feel trapped."
    },
    {
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      "text": "I feel like I can't go outside, because if I go outside, a scooter might bump into me, and I'll get angry and all that, okay, so... But when I read the Divine Comedy, all that dissipates, right? And that anger... Those memories, for whatever reason, they just float away, and then I feel I'm floating upwards, okay? That's one really obvious thing that I notice, okay? But again, it's something that... And I think it's because I've been reading Divine Comedy for a long time, and I understand it pretty well, okay? But so I'm saying, like, if you do read the Divine Comedy over time, I'm pretty sure you'll feel the same thing, where you feel yourself lighter. It's almost like you're lifting yourself up to the heavens. It's almost like you can actually access the heavens yourself, okay? That's one. Second thing is that I feel much more creative."
    },
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      "text": "I feel much more imaginative, right? So when you... In this class, when I teach, you can see I teach with imagination, right? I'm gonna propose ideas to you. I'm gonna propose situations to you that are really imaginative. And I think it's because as I am teaching, as I'm reading Divine Comedy, I have a cosmic connection with Dante. Okay? And Dante and the universe, it's feeding me visions. It's feeding me ideas. The difference between you guys and me is you've just started, so these visions are involuntary, meaning, like, these come to you and you don't actually know what to make of them. But if you practice this for a long time, like I have, you're able to control these visions. You basically say, I need this vision in order to teach this canto well, and the vision comes to you automatically, okay? I know it sounds weird, but I have no idea what I'm teaching, what I will teach, okay?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And then on the cab right here, I know, okay? I know what I wanna focus on. I know what I wanna teach. It's all very inspirational, okay? That's the second thing. The third thing is that when you actually read Dante a lot, you feel a profound sense of purpose. Purpose and mission, which is, like, my responsibility is to share Dante with the world, to change the world for the better. You feel as though if I really, I have a special gift for understanding Dante, and I have a mission to spread this. And how do I know? Because I think Dante is smiling at me from the heavens. He's smiling at me, and he's like, you're spreading my vision. You're spreading my message of love, and thank you so much. So you feel a deep sense of mission, but you also feel a deep sense of gratitude, purpose, responsibility."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And again, but the ultimate sensation, and I'm not sure if you guys ever had this, is you feel really light. You feel as though you're flying, and you feel as though you're ascending upwards. It's almost like transcendence, okay? Transcendent. You're being transcendent when you read Divine Comedy. Yeah."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Transcendent. Psychedelics. I totally agree with the first two, but I think it still has a lack of will and purpose at the end. So you do feel elevated. You care less about small things, about, oh, I'm late, or oh, I don't have enough money or something. It really doesn't matter at all. You're connected to a way higher purpose. Yes. So you do feel lighter and creative, and you can direct your creativeness into, for example, me as a student learning. Yes. So you find new ways of learning, and way more efficiently. But we do like the, actually, motion to actually do things, and yeah. It's really comparable."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:14:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Well, yeah. That's really interesting. Thank you for that. Any more questions before we continue? Okay. All right. Let's... Okay. So we are going now to the ultimate canto of Inferno, like the last canto, okay? But before we do that... I want us to use our imagination, okay? So imagine we're in Hollywood and writing this movie, and we have the script already, and now we just have to figure out the ending, right? And the ending, of course, is we meet Lucifer. We meet Satan. This is the ending of Inferno, okay? So I want to use our imagination and ask ourselves, if we are writing this movie, okay, first of all... First of all, how would we describe Lucifer? What is Lucifer? And how would we set the scene for the ending, okay? And again, this is the ending, right? So any suggestions? Come on. Let's be creative. Let's channel Dante. Yes? Well... Look, look, look, look."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "I know we've read the ending, but I'm just saying let's use our imagination, which we have not, okay? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Well, our initial big question is, is he tempting still? Or is he pitiful? Exactly, okay?"
    },
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      "text": "So the big question is temptation, because that is what Satan does, right? He is going to meet Dante and say to Dante, I know you're going to meet... You want to meet Beatrice, but let me tempt you with other things, right? Let me give you a beautiful woman. Let me give you riches. Let me give you a world kingdom, right? That's the most obvious thing you can do, right? Temptation. Just as Satan tempted Jesus in the desert, Satan will now tempt... Dante in hell, okay? So that's obvious. What... What... What are some other things?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Yes? Maybe try to sign a contract, because the devil and the demon, they always want to sign a contract with you. Exactly, yes. To make you... A contract, right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right? For your soul, right? And this is the plot, of course, for Faust. And this is a very common thing. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Well, we have to show him tethered in some way. Where he is selling a path upwards to all the people he's giving deals to. So... But we know God cast him out of heaven forever. So his desire is to get back there. He's caused mischief on earth. So we need to show him, if it was a Hollywood movie, in some way tied to where he is in a way that he can never escape."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Can you describe his appearance for us?"
    },
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      "text": "In the poem or in general? No, no, no, no, no."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "I... We know the... We know the poem, okay? But I'm just saying, like, if this were a Hollywood movie, right, what... How would he look like? Who would you cast to play Satan in this movie?"
    },
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      "text": "An AI character. Most handsome person possible as decreed by AI."
    },
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      "text": "I think handsome, right? Like I think, like, really good looking, okay? Like maybe Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise at their prime, okay? Like really hot, really good looking, okay? Because that's part of the temptation, right? So... So beautiful. And, you know, in the Bible, not in the Bible, like, Christianity believes that Lucifer was a beautiful angel, right? The most beautiful of all the angels. So he has to be beautiful, right? And he has to be, like, really handsome and almost like a prince, right? Any other ideas for how this will play out? Yes?"
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      "text": "Like, to what extent we can relate with him? Like, can we understand how he got himself there? Or do we just... See him very..."
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      "text": "This is really good. Yes. Sympathy, right? So Lucifer is going to tell us a story of how he was betrayed by God, right? You think I'm the betrayer, but God betrayed me. And this becomes a plot line for Paradise Lost. But yeah, no. We have to sympathize with Satan because it's not just tempting Dante, he has to tempt us as well. He has to seduce us with his story. Yes. Anything else?"
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      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "One."
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      "text": "I would imagine him as a shapeshifter because... Well, and it's part of temptation because you kind of become whoever is the object of someone's desire."
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      "text": "Yeah. Well, I would say he's a poet, right? Because that's what a poet is. A poet is a chameleon. Okay? A poet is always shifting words to please you. Okay? Lyrical. So when he speaks, it is the most beautiful poetry in the divine comedy. It's lyrical. It's poetry. And he's a chameleon. Yes. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes."
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      "text": "Like very cunning or like lying like a snake. So like how the temptation happens in the Garden of Eden. Okay. Did God really say this? Or like actually word by word, he didn't really say that. And then kind of debates with you and makes you kind of believe him."
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      "text": "Yes. He has to provide logical syllogisms, right? Yeah. He has to convince you."
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      "text": "Yes."
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      "text": "Logically. And he will be very convincing, right? He'll use logic. Just as, you know, in Paradise Lost where Satan convinced Eve, right? It was a very logical speech. Okay. Anyone else?"
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      "text": "I'd read Paradise Lost before I read Inferno. And so I was expecting, it's like a paradigm shift or the Germans would call it a Gestalt shift. The Gestalt shift where like my entire worldview changed because of how Satan had expressed his point of view. And so it goes beyond sympathy to empathy for him. And I expect him to use that persuasively. So something beyond temptation would be persuasive and lawyerly. Yes. Like, so every argument that I would have, this is a brother's cameras off. Every argument that I would have would be steel manned by him and then broken down."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes. That's right. So not only do we have to sympathize with him, we have to be like, feel that we are like him. Yes, exactly. Yes."
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      "text": "It makes me think about C.S. Lewis's Screw Type Letters. I think it was basically written about an uncle demon who was trying to teach his young nephew demon to seduce people. So it was all kinds of lectures from demons. So these letters to teach him how to seduce men and be like, so it's really fun. So that whole book was written in a demon's perspective, which is very fun. But it's about all of these mentioned above, deception."
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      "text": "Where's Virgil in this movie? What happens to Virgil? Right? Because they went on this long journey together. What happens to Virgil? What would you do with Virgil, this character? You know that Dante's being tempted, right? And Dante represents us. And we know what Satan's doing, but what's Virgil doing?"
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      "text": "I mean, I guess if it was a movie, he'd be transitioned to like a location where he would be watching over Dante, but not involved in this scene at all. Yeah."
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      "text": "Yeah. I think the first thing is that Virgil will be trapped, right? Or he would be frozen, right? He'd be frozen. And Satan would use Virgil as a bargaining chip and says, listen, your friend now is frozen. If you love him, let's make a deal. Right? So you can almost see the scene where Virgil and Dante come in. And the first thing that happens is that Satan just snaps his finger and Virgil is frozen in place. Cannot move. Cannot speak. And Dante is now terrified. Right? And now Satan will begin his temptation, tell his story, elicit sympathy, then use his logic to convince us that, no, actually, the way we understood the universe is wrong. God is evil. Satan is good. That's why there's this rebellion. This basically would be able to applaud Paradise Lost, okay? But yeah. Yes?"
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      "text": "I think he'd also inspire fear."
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      "text": "Yes. Right? He has to inspire fear and anxiety. Right? In the beginning. But then he wants you to love him. Does that make sense? Maybe in the beginning he wants fear and anxiety, but then... Yes?"
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      "text": "He would also try to cause distrust between maybe him and Virgil. That's interesting. Yes. Okay. So because Virgil is his best friend up to this point, and if he causes distrust between them, it makes him..."
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      "text": "That is great. Yeah. So maybe not freeze Virgil, but change Virgil and show certain things, certain flashbacks between Virgil and Don that show that Virgil is not a reliable character. And there's quite a few of these scenes. Yes."
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      "text": "Makes me think about Harry Potter, where it's like kind of make you lose all hope or despair or like kind of breaks down of your fundamental belief of the world. Yes. And then where like Harry Potter has to say, expel no Patronus. Yes. To expel all these darkness and despair in your life. Yes. So it's kind of the similar."
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "time_label": "1:23:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes. Okay. Okay. So this is all great. Okay. And like, this is what a Hollywood movie would look like. This is what most people would write. Okay. And guess what? We are completely and utterly wrong. Okay. None of this happens. In fact, the complete opposite happens. Okay. All right. This is what's shocking about Divine Comedy. So we're going to read, we will now read the last canto. Again, this is what we should expect. To happen. This is what most people would write. In fact, a lot of people have written this in, in, uh, in literature. Got, uh, Gerda with false Milton paradise loss. You have Philip Pullman who wrote his dark materials trilogy. Um, but that's how it happens. Okay. Okay. So let's read kind of 34. And we're trying to figure out why, uh, this does not happen."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Okay. Canto 34. Vexilla regis proteunt in fiat. Farni toward us and therefore keep your eyes ahead. My master said to see if you can spy him."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "time_label": "1:24:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So they're now going to meet Satan or Lucifer. Okay. Whatever name is the devil. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Just as when night falls on our hemisphere or when a heavy fog is blowing thick, a windmill seems to wheel when seen far off. So then I seem to see that sort of structure and next because the wind was strong, I shrank behind my guide. There was no other shelter. And now with fear, I set it down in meter. I was where all the shades were fully covered, but visible as wisps of straw and glass. There's some lie flat. Another stand erect one on his head and one upon his souls. And some Ben face to feet, just like a bow. But after we had made our way ahead, my master felt he now should have me see that creature who was once a handsome presence. He stepped aside and made me stop and said. Look, here is this."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And this is just a name for Lucifer or Satan. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "And this is the place where you will have to arm yourself with fortitude. Oh, reader, do not ask of me how I grew faint and frozen. Then I cannot write it. All words would fall, fall, fall far short of what it was. I did not die and I was not alive. Think for yourself. If you have any wit, what I became deprived of life and death. The emperor of the despot. The kingdom so towered from the ice up from mid chest that I matched better with a giant's breath than giants match the measure of his arms. Now you can gauge the size of all of him if it is in proportion to such parts."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
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      "time_label": "1:26:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So basically this guy's a skyscraper. Okay. He is huge. Keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "If he was once as handsome and he now is ugly and despite that raised his brows against his maker. One can understand how every sorrow has its source in him. I marveled when I saw that on his head he had three faces. One in front, blood red. And then another two that just above the midpoint of each shoulder joined the first. And at the crown, all three were reattached. The right looked somewhat yellow, somewhat white. The left in its appearance was like those who come from where the Nile descending flows. Beneath each face of his two wings spread out. As broad, as suited, so immense a bird. I've never seen a ship with sails so wide. They had no feathers but were fashioned like a bat's. And he was agitating them so that three winds made their way out of him, out from him. And all Cossetus froze before those winds. He wept out of six eyes and down three chins."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:27:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Tears gushed together with a bloody froth. Within each mouth he used it like a grinder. With gnashing teeth he tore to bits a sinner, so that he brought much pain to three at once. The forward sinner found that biting nothing when matched against the clawing, for at times his back was stripped completely of its hide. That soul up there who has to suffer most, my master said, Judas Iscariot. His head inside, he jerks his legs without. Of those two others with their heads beneath, the one who hangs from that black snout is Brutus. See how he writhes and does not say a word. That other who seems so robust is Cassius. But night has come again, and it is time for us to leave. We have seen everything. Just as he asked, I clasped him around the neck, and he watched for the chance of time and place, and when the wings were open wide enough."
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      "start": 5317.17,
      "end": 5367.51,
      "time_label": "1:28:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "He took fast hold upon the shaggy flanks and then descended, down from tuft to tuft between the tangled hair and icy crust. When we had reached the point at which the thigh revolves, just at the swelling of the hip, my guide, with heavy strain and rugged work, reversed his head to where his legs had been and grappled on the hair as one who climbs. I thought that we were going back to hell. Hold tight, my master said. He panted like a man exhausted. It is by such stairs that we must take our leave of so much evil. Then he slipped through a crevice in a rock and placed me on the edge of it to sit. That done, he climbed toward me with steady steps. I raised my eyes, believing I should see the half of Lucifer that I had left. Instead, I saw him with his legs turned up."
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      "time_label": "1:29:27",
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      "text": "And if I then became perplexed, do let the ignorant be judges, those who cannot understand what point I had just crossed. Get up, my master said. Be on your feet. The way along the path is difficult. The sun's already back to middle tierce. It was no palace hall, the place in which we found ourselves, but with this rough, hewn floor and scanty light, a dungeon built by nature. Before I free myself from this abyss, master, I said when I stood up straight, tell me enough to see I don't mistake. Where's this ice? And how's he so placed head downward? Tell me, too, how has the sun in so few hours gone from night to morning? And he to me, You still believe you're north of the center? Where I grasped the hair of the damned worm who pierces through the world. And you were there as long as I descended, but when I turned, that's when you passed the point to which from every part all weights are drawn."
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      "text": "And now you stand beneath the hemisphere opposing that which cloaks the great dry lands and underneath whose venus died the man whose birth and life were sinless in this world. Your feet are placed upon a little sphere that forms the other face of the Judaica. Here it is morning when it's evening there. And he whose hair has served us as a ladder is still fixed, even as he was before. This was the side on which he fell from heaven for fear of him. The land that once loomed here made of the sea a veil and rose into our hemisphere. And that land, which appears upon this side perhaps to flee from him, left here this hollow space and hurried upward. There's a place below the limit of that cave, its farthest point from Beelzebub, a place one cannot see."
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      "time_label": "1:31:20",
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      "text": "It is discovered by ear. There is a sounding stream that flows along the hollow of a rock eroded by winding waters, and the slope is easy. My guide and I came on that hidden road to make our way back into the bright world, and with no care for any rest, we climbed. He first, I following, until I saw, through, around, opening, some of those things of beauty heaven bears. It was from there that we emerged to see once more the stars."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so the word we have for Canal 34 is anticlimactic, okay? This is not at all interesting or what we expected. There's no sense of relief. There's no sense of drama. We built all the way up, all right, to this canto, and it's just like a huge disappointment, right? We're expecting this beautiful Lucifer who would tempt us with poetry, and I don't even know what he is, actually, okay? So this is really paradoxical. Again, the word is paradox. This makes no sense. Dante is not a bad writer. He is a good writer. So how do you guys feel about this?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Yes? My initial sense is that he doesn't want to risk priming us in any way bad. So he's, as we've been saying, if his poetry is priming us to put seeds in our brain of interesting thoughts, he doesn't even want to write the tempting words that Satan might have said to him down there in case it infects the reader even slightly. Is Satan capable of speech? I can't remember reading anything in this that says he's not, but... We know he's actually not capable of speech. Why?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes? Yes, go ahead."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "He's chewing on a sinner's..."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, so his mouth is kind of busy, so he can't actually speak. But what else? Okay, alright. Did you have a comment? Okay. We know he's actually not capable of speech, not just because his mouth is busy, but also because... Why?"
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      "text": "The lake in which he's frozen flips no matter what aspect you look at him. So he's frozen from the middle, to either extremity of his body, and therefore there's no way his being can communicate."
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      "text": "Uh... Yeah, that's interesting, yes, okay. You're right. So is he conscious? Is he conscious? Let me ask you this question. If there's a mosquito on your neck, what do you do? Yeah, you hit it, obviously, right? Is there a mosquito on... Uh... Satan? Is there a mosquito on Satan? It's Virgil, man. What's he doing? Nothing. Do you understand? He's not even conscious. What is he? He's not conscious, right? What is he, really?"
    },
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      "text": "Uh... NPC?"
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      "text": "Uh... No, I wouldn't say he's an NPC. I'd say he's even worse than an NPC. What?"
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      "text": "He's like a zombie?"
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      "text": "No, he's even worse than a zombie, actually. If you just look at it, look at the words that Donna used to describe him, right? Like robots? He's even worse than a robot. What are the words that Donna used to describe him? He is a what? Hmm? He actually uses certain words to describe the Lucifer. What other words he uses? First of all, what is Lucifer doing? What is he, like, literally doing?"
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      "text": "It says he's a ship. I've never seen a ship with sails so wide. A ship is one of these words. What are some other words? A bird. He says a bat and a bird. What line?"
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      "text": "Well, his wings are like that."
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      "text": "Yeah, his wings are like bats. But what is he? Read it carefully. What words are being used to describe... Excuse me? A grinder? Yes. What else? There are lots of these. Grinder? What else?"
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      "text": "I think he said giant. Or, like, really big. At some point."
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      "text": "Where? Find me the line. Read the poetry, guys. He's using specific words to describe... It's kind of animalistic. Find me the words."
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      "text": "He says, I suited so immense a bird."
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      "text": "Bird? This is a simile, right? I'm saying, like, what are the words that directly..."
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      "text": "Line six. It's blowing thick. A windmill seems to wail and seem far off."
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      "text": "So, a windmill. What's the next line?"
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      "text": "And in seven, he says, So then I seem to see that sort of structure."
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      "text": "Structure. Do you understand? Windmill. Structure. Tower. He is a building. Okay? He is a machine. That's all he is. He's not even a... He's not even conscious. Right? He's an air conditioner. That's literally what he is. He's a giant air conditioner. Blowing wind to cool the lake. Yeah. That's all he is. He's an ice blower. Like, what is going on here? Okay? This makes no sense."
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      "text": "I think, yeah, it's... He's the paradoxical source of cold. So if cold is molecules vibrating less and less quickly, somehow there has to be a source in this magic universe, and that's him. Right."
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      "text": "So his punishment, his betrayal is so great, because he betrayed God, that his punishment is that he's lost all consciousness. Right? Now he's just a machine. That is how low he's sunk. He's just a building. Yes?"
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      "text": "Like, I was thinking, if he is conscious, but he cannot do anything with his situation, wouldn't that be, like, a worse punishment? Because now he is basically gone, and there's just his, like... It's just his physical being that is in hell, but not his conscious or his soul. Like, wouldn't it be a worse punishment if he knew what he was doing, but then he couldn't do anything about it?"
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      "text": "So he's comatose? Is that what you're saying? He's comatose? He's a vegetable? Kinda. Okay. Um, I don't... Yeah, I mean, like, I think he's just frozen, right? Because consciousness requires experience. Yes?"
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      "text": "I would venture to say that's his just punishment. Right. Lucifer's just punishment, because he was anything but, and now seems like this powerless, inert, frozen being. That's just kind of not even at its will or has conscience."
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      "text": "And it is also funny that if God is the source of light and love and sun and, you know, everything, energy, heat, then Lucifer is the lack of. So, like, going back to Paradiso Canto 1, you know, Stanza 1."
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      "text": "He's the mirror, the opposite."
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      "text": "That's right. Exactly, right? Remember, like, angels, they all, they can never turn away from God, right? The more they turn away from God, they become this. Yes?"
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      "text": "Yeah, I wonder, not just in an ethical sense, like, if God is all good, but just in a capability sense, like, I'm good at running. Then having that lack of good in the capable sense, Satan, even like Uglino, was good at being clever and locking people into that tower. And Satan is not good. He's not good at anything because he can't do anything."
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      "text": "Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, to answer your question, is it possible he's conscious but he can't move? And the answer is, if you're conscious, he would be allowed to speak and talk about his punishment, right? Does that make sense? And the fact that he doesn't speak means he's not actually conscious. Yes?"
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      "text": "But I think he does have some level of comprehension because it does say that he's crying."
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      "text": "Right, that is correct, yes. He feels, he is crying, yes. That's a very interesting comment, yes. And what would he make of this? Because he's clearly not conscious."
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      "text": "It's almost like that analogy of the sort of vegetative state. Okay, yeah."
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      "text": "Yes? Yeah, what I still don't really understand is we say Satan or Lucifer was an angel, but angels can never turn away from God. So how did he turn away from God? That's a great question. Yes, okay."
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      "text": "Yes? I think Lucifer reminds me of a giant data center. It can host all kind of programs, can process information, but ultimately it lacks its own soul."
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      "text": "Yeah, exactly. So he's clearly a machine. Okay, but let's try to figure out the question, okay? Because all angels are staring at God. They're turning towards God. And then Lucifer turns, turns away. Yes?"
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      "text": "I think this is quite a prosaic interpretation, but because he's the God of light, sorry, the angel of light, it is in his essence. Darkness is also essential to his being just by being the angel of light. So he's like the most unlucky angel because of all of the ones that would ever slip up and turn to the darkness. It's going to be him because as the angel of light, that's the only way I can see."
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      "text": "Yeah, so what, yes? Because I've heard that the God loved Lucifer mostly."
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      "text": "Yeah, so he's supposed to love God, right?"
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      "text": "He's God's lieutenant. Yeah, the love is not a limitation. Maybe he can, you know."
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      "text": "Right, so it's possible that he was the lieutenant and he had free will. He screwed up, okay?"
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      "text": "Right, no. But remember, when we were up in Paradiso, there are different levels of angels. There are different categories of angels, right? But we said all angels have no free will, I thought."
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      "text": "Right, right, right. But think of them as organs in a body, right? They're all different. They all serve a particular function. And this particular organ, Satan chose to become a cancer. And so the body threw him out. But what he didn't recognize is that the body, the larger body, you as an organ have actually no purpose. And so you just decay and become dead."
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      "text": "But he could still choose. But he still had a decision. Or he could make a decision. But if you don't have a free will, then how can you make a decision?"
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      "text": "Yes? I think that he was God's number two. Yes. So that he didn't have free will, but he was about as close as possible that any celestial intelligence could get. I know it's difficult for me as well, but I just think that it's God proving that whoever he gave, like imagine he has to organize his power in a certain way amongst angels to exact his will or whatever. His number two, the one he gives the most power to, is the one most likely to betray him and turn away and have that capacity."
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      "text": "So was he always supposed to turn away from him?"
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      "text": "That's a kind of theme in Paradise Lost, but I'm not sure. It's a question I cannot answer."
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      "text": "Okay, alright. So let's first talk about things we know, okay? First of all, we know that God's gift to humanity was free will. And free will is what distinguishes us from other beings, okay? That we know from Paradiso. We have free will, and we can choose whatever path we want. That's number one, okay? Number two is the functions of the angels in the heavens is to basically be organs of a body, right? To maintain the proper functioning of the universe, okay? So they don't actually have free will. They're just basically servants, okay? So Lucifer was a head servant, and he doesn't have free will, and so how does he turn away from God then? He doesn't have free will. How does he turn away from God?"
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      "text": "I just think it's in the nature of the number two to eventually try to be number one. Yeah, his nature has to be disobedience, okay?"
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      "text": "That's the only thing that makes sense. Like, it's his nature to be disobedient. It is his will to turn away from God. That is his function, to turn away from God. Why that's the case, I don't really know. Okay?"
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      "text": "So when God constructed this hierarchy, then he must have willed this, that he would one day turn away. Yeah. So, okay."
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      "text": "Right, so the only thing that he cannot will is us. He gave us free will, okay? But everything else, he willed into being. Right? Right?"
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      "text": "Yes? Sometimes I think this is a little bit funny that it's almost like a father whose son is really good at table tennis, but the school he's sending his son to doesn't play table tennis. So he tries to get the school to play table tennis before his son attends it. So God let Satan destroy the world so that Jesus would be able to have as big of an impact as possible."
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      "text": "Yeah, that's, I mean, that's what Christians believe, right? Okay, yeah, that's the idea here. Like, everything happens for a reason. But if that's the case, okay, this creates another paradox, which is there are three betrayers, right? Three people are being punished. And these are the worst offenders in human history. And they are Judas Iscariot. They are Brutus and Cassius. Brutus and Cassius, of course, are the two who assassinated Julius Caesar. But we know for a fact that there is a plan, right? The plan is to create Christianity. Brutus and Cassius were crucial to this plan because by killing Julius Caesar, that enabled the rise of Augustus Caesar and the Roman Empire. And then, and then, Judas Iscariot is crucial to this plan because without him, there'll be no, there'll be no betrayal, right? And so Jesus would not be crucified. So, like, if it's all part of God's plan, why would these three be punished?"
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      "text": "Because it's a vision being shown to Dante, to conscious minds, that if you showed that evil people sometimes are part of God's plan, I don't think that's a good image to spread."
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      "text": "Okay, yes."
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      "text": "I don't, I don't know if Dante would be a determinist. That he's been harping on free will this whole time."
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      "text": "That's right. That's right. So that can't be the answer, okay? Free will is the fundamental law of the universe, okay? So why are these three being punished?"
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      "text": "Okay."
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      "text": "So in theology, I think they explain it like this, if I'm not mistaken, is that God has a plan for the world. He sees the ultimate ending of all your choices. He's kind of like AI, right? Like, he can foresee, like, AlphaGo. He can foresee your next step. He gives you free will, right, as the competitor on the other side of the Go game. So he knows, ultimately, as AI can calculate by mathematical formulas, that you are going to end up at this step. So like all the trailers, God can see that they are going to end up doing that. But God doesn't control and make you, like, you have to do that. But God just kind of like silently watch behind the curtain and be like, oh, you're going there? Okay, then there will be Jesus. Or you're going that, then there will be the Holy Roman Empire. So he doesn't interfere. So he's not responsible for your fault."
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      "text": "So he's not, he's not willing, planning you, predetermining you to make that fall. But he kind of prepares, like, AI. He prepares, like, options 1 to 12. You know, it depends on your, you know."
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      "text": "I understand that. But at the same time, they are contributing to the divine plan, right? Go ahead."
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      "text": "I'm speculating. I don't have a conclusion yet."
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      "text": "All we're doing is speculating, okay? Because, like, again, if you read all the commentary, the scholarship on Dante, no one knows what's going on. Like, what's going on here, right?"
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      "text": "I want to follow up on that point of just the perception and how psychedelics alters the filters and the ability for perception. It's almost like God, the Creator, is putting up a play for all us humans to watch. The Matrix, you know, whatever it is, and it's for us to watch and perceive. But even this is not reality."
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      "text": "Right, okay."
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      "text": "But it's meant to do something to open you up."
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      "text": "Okay. Okay. Right. I don't think Dante is that complicated. Let's focus on simple solutions, okay? Okay? So again, like, Occam's razor. We are looking for elegance. So that's a great explanation. All these are great explanations. But I'm looking for, like, a really elegant explanation for what's going on. Okay? Let's move towards elegance, clarity, and simplicity. Let everyone understand. Yes?"
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      "text": "Online chat. So how Lucifer managed constant adversity for mortals in any and every degree is God's will."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. All right. Thank you for that. Yes?"
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      "text": "So we had said earlier, Augustine claims that God made hell, and hell is good because it's cosmic justice. You cannot have free will without evil. I don't know if Augustine comes to a determination that God made evil, or if evil is a byproduct of free will. But it seems like they go hand in hand."
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      "text": "Okay. All right. So we're running out of time, okay? But let me explain what's going on, okay? There may be a divine plan. It doesn't matter, okay? Because we are the divine plan. The imagination is the divine plan. And so what matters is not, is this advancing God's plan. That's not what matters, okay? The results don't matter. It's a process that matters. What matters is what effect does it have on us, okay? Now, Brutus and Cassius are important because how did they assassinate Julius Caesar? Do you guys know sort of Julius Caesar? Who are these people, Brutus and Cassius? Yes?"
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      "text": "So I think Julius Caesar was about to give a big speech, and in the forum, before they beckoned him in and said, let's have a meeting just prior to your big address to the Senate, and then they killed him."
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      "text": "But I'm saying like,"
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      "text": "how did they get access to Julius Caesar? By being his friend, comrade, helper."
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      "text": "Yeah. To Brutus, okay? So you guys don't know this, but there's speculation that Brutus was his son. All right. So remember, this is, when was Julius Caesar assassinated? Like what year? 33? I can't actually remember when he was assassinated, okay? But it's like 10 years after these brutal civil wars, when all these women were trying to kill each other. And then Julius Caesar was the only one left standing, and everyone around him, so 44 BC, okay? But everyone around him were his best friends, his most loyal allies, and these were the people who betrayed him. Do you understand? Okay? So it goes back to the idea of betrayal of guests. But what this is is the betrayal of the host. Does it make sense? They are guests in his house. He is basically emperor now. And they, yes."
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      "text": "Is it not even worse? Is it because the Romans then later said that Julius Caesar is God, so it's betrayal of God maybe even. Exactly."
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      "text": "Exactly. That's right. After Augustus Caesar comes to power, he elevates Julius Caesar to divinity, okay? So this is why they're in hell. Because Brutus and Cassius, not only did they kill the host, right? But they killed God himself."
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      "text": "But that's, but in the Christian, from the Christian view, it wouldn't be, from Dante, it wouldn't be a God. Like, Julius Caesar wouldn't be a God from Dante's view."
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      "text": "Yeah. But then the question then is, who is really master of hell? And who put these guys there?"
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      "text": "Virgil."
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      "text": "Virgil. Probably Virgil, okay? Because we know it's not Lucifer. Do you understand? Okay? This is why Divine Comedy, it is so brilliant. Because this is a Hollywood movie, but it's a shock reveal. You understand? It's a shock reveal. We thought Lucifer was the one in charge, but it was Virgil all along. Okay? Because why else are Brutus and Cassius suffering like that? Okay? Does that make sense? This is the shock reveal. All right? But has Dante been tempted by Virgil? Right? We said that Lucifer's job is to tempt Jesus. Has Virgil tempted Dante? Has he succeeded in tempting Dante?"
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      "text": "Somewhat. Because earlier in the Inferno, it seems fairly clear, even if there are some doubts, that Dante does trust Virgil."
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      "text": "Yeah. Yeah. How much does he trust Virgil? Okay. The scene is this, right? What lets him out of hell is Virgil climbs Lucifer. Where's Dante? Virgil is the one climbing Lucifer, right? Where is Dante? Where's Dante? On the back of Virgil. Right? You understand this? Okay? So they're climbing out of hell and they go into sunlight. What does this remind you of? This is an allegory for what?"
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      "text": "The medieval mythos of saving and abduction or saving the princess."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Much more simple than that."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Yes? Icar. What? Icar. The one that flew and that got too close to the sun. Oh, Icar. Icarus. Icarus. Yeah. Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "Oh, just stepping on the shoulders of giants to reach ahead."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Oh yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting, but that's not what I'm thinking about. Okay. Yes. Birth? Yes. It's birth, man. Right? Think about how the mother takes you from the darkness into the light for exertion. Right? It's marrying birth. It's hell. Now it's complete darkness and Virgil is climbing Lucifer with Dante on his back and they go into the light. It's exertion. Right? So has Virgil succeeded? Yeah. He's made Dante into his son. Once we leave inferno, the temptation is complete. It's a journey into temptation. Right? It's a journey into sin, into darkness. And now Dante. Right? Is completely beholden to Virgil as his son. Does that make sense? Yes."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah. Because later we see as well that Dante misses Virgil."
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      "text": "Yes. That's right. Okay. Do you see how beautiful this is? It's anticlimactic, but it's perfect ending and it's, it is so symbolic, right? Does that make sense to you guys? All right. Any questions or comments about this? Yes."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "Yeah. So the idea of metaphor kind of makes me think about, oh, it's so evangelical to say, but like so that like our hundred years on earth, it's kind of like this journey of in the mother's womb and growing and learning about the ultimate reality. Like Pluto said that he has seen outside of the cave. And so that after this one hundred years, we are officially entering internal life to live life to the fullest in heaven or whatever place. So it's kind of the same as this ending. I feel like."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Exactly. Another comment I'll make is like this, the birth is an allegory for Dante reading the Iliad, right? In Latin. Cause at this time, everyone memorized the Iliad in Latin and it's a really good way to learn Latin by the way. So it's, so it's, it's an allegory for that. Like you reading the Iliad is like Virgil giving birth to you. Okay. So this is, this is again, the beauty of the conversation. There are so many, this now is a cliffhanger, right? Because Lucifer has exceeded in tempting Jesus. But the temptation is complete. And so the, so now what's going to happen is we know we've, we've read paradise. Okay. We know that paradise, it is vision and revelation. It mirrors the book of revelation. Okay. We know that. We also know like infernal is really prophecy. Okay. it is a criticism of italy okay so what purgatory has to be is a pilgrimage or"
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      "text": "a journey okay it's gonna be literally a journey away from virgil and into beatrice away from hell and into heaven okay and this is this is like the grand scheme of the divine comedy all right so we come back we're we're gonna look at how virgil is really lucifer all right so enjoy your break we'll come back an hour um good afternoon um so a couple of issues from this morning okay the first issue is why is lucifer crying we said he was not conscious uh we said he was just a building why is he crying um this has to do with the idea that all beings aspire to be with god okay the closer you are to god the happier you are the further away from god the the uh unhappier you are and lucifer because of his betrayal he is now permanently away from god and that's why he cries uh he'll cry"
    },
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      "text": "for all eternity also remember in no limbo is a really nice retirement community it's just like earth a very nice um italy they're all sighing because they can never be with god okay so that's why lucifer is crying that doesn't actually mean he's conscious um but it just means that uh he's sad uh he has the eternal unhappiness because he is forever away from god some question that we discussed this morning that needs to be clarified is why did satan rebel okay and i said something really incorrect this morning which is like angels do not have free will in fact they do have free will but they have perfect free will which means they have perfect obedience to god like once you reach perfection free will is perfect obedience and that's what oxen says in the city of god so imagine a situation where in the beginning uh there were the angels and um this"
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      "text": "is before god created us and the angels they have free will and some chose to rebel like lucifer and some chose side with god and created the war in heaven right uh and uh that's something that milton writes about in paradise lost but there's this war in heaven and those who started with lucifer they're cast into hell and those who stayed with god um stayed in heaven and because they chose god uh they forever will look towards him and can never look away from him because they already made that choice and as such uh heaven is able to reach perfection okay and this state of affairs also foretells our fate where remember there's a day of judgment and the day of judgment is do you choose god or to choose satan those who change to satan will be forever punished in hell and those who chose um um god will create heaven on heaven on"
    },
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      "text": "earth okay it will literally be heaven coming on earth so that's the idea of um why satan rebelled he what he had free will and he chose to rebel uh because of his pride he wanted to be like god just as like how adam and eve ate the food in order to be like god and um this caused a war in heaven and after this war um uh heaven became perfect because everyone became completely loyal to god and satan lived or no one of them was able to go to any other land now repentance was un Salem was revealed and the world became accustomed to it and it's just like um um We don't have to go back yet. But in Kennel 30, remember, there's this argument, this fight, and it broke out between Sinon and Master Adam. Master Adam is a counterfeiter. And they're trying to argue who's worse, okay?"
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      "text": "Master Adam is a counterfeiter who basically diluted gold to make florins. Florins is the currency of florins. And at this point in history, it is the most valuable currency, the most credible currency in the world because it's pure gold. And so when Master Adam, he dilutes the florins, the florins is burning by the stake, okay? That's how seriously they took it. Sinon is the Greek soldier who tricked the Trojans into lending him the Trojan horse, okay? And we're going to read the, the speech by Sinon to the Trojans that convinced them to let in the Trojan horse. And they're trying to argue who's worse, the perjurer who is Sinon, the false witness, or the counterfeiter, Master Adam. And we have to think about why this fight is happening. Remember, whenever Donny creates a paradox, the goal is to make us think much deeper about the underlying message, the underlying text. Okay? So first thing we're going to do is we're going to go and read the Inead."
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      "text": "And this is book two, where Ineas is recounting the fall of Troy. And so if you know the history, what happens is the Greeks try for 10 years to breach the walls of Troy. They can't do it. So like, okay, we're kind of stuck. And so Ulysses proposes the Trojan horse. And so they pretend to run away. The Greeks pretend, pretend, pretend to run away and they leave behind a Trojan horse. And of course, inside the Trojan horse are Ulysses, Achilles, Achilles, all the great Greek champions. It's a trap, right? And the Trojans have the debate about what to do with the horse. And everyone's like, well, obviously this is a trap. Let's just like burn it, man. And then what, what turns the tide is Sinon, the Greek soldier comes in and he tricks the, uh, Trojans. Okay. So we're, we're, we're just, we'll read up,"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "um, you know, about a couple hundred lines, but, but I just want to get you, get you a feel of what's going on. Okay. All right."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Can you please suddenly in the thick of it all, a young soldier hand shackled behind his back with much shouting Trojan shepherds were hailing him toward the king. They'd come on the man by chance, a total stranger. He'd given himself up with one goal in mind to open Troy to the Greeks and lay her waste. He trusted to come. Courage nerd for either end to weave his lies or face his certain death. Young Trojans recruits keen to have a look, came scurrying up from all sides, crowding round, outdoing each other to make a mockery of the captive. Now here, the treachery of the Greeks and learn from a single crime, the nature of the beast haggard, helpless there in our midst. He stood all eyes riveted on him now and turning a wary glance at the lines of Trojan troops. He groaned and spoke, where can I find some, some refuge where on land on"
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      "start": 7616.23,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "sea what's left for me, a man of so much misery, nothing among the Greeks, no place at all. And worse, I see my Trojan enemies crying for my blood has groans. Convinced me cutting all our show of violence short. We press him. Tell us where you were born, your family. What news do you bring? Tell us what you trust to such a willing captive. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So this morning we talked about Satan, right? How, if Donnie were to meet Satan and Satan would, would with poetry with lyrical poetry, tempt him. And the first thing that's in would do is elicit his sympathy, right? And that's exactly what's seen on is doing here. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:07:38",
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      "text": "All of it. My King, I'll tell you come what may the whole true story. Greek. I am. I don't deny it. Now that first fortune may have made me a man of misery, but wicked as she is, she can't make some seen on a lying fraud as well. Now, perhaps you've caught some rumor. I've calamities Bellis his son and his shining fame that rings in song. The Greeks charged him with treason, a trumped up charge and innocent man. And just because he posed the war, they put him to death. But once he's robbed of the light, they mourn him sorely. Now I was his blood kin, a youngster. When my father, a poor man sent me off to the war at choice at Palomitas as Palomitas, his comrade, long as he kept his Royal status holding forth in the councils of the Kings. I had some standing, too some pride of place, but once he"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:08:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "left the land of the living, thanks to the jealous forked tongue of our Ulysses, you're no stranger to his story. I was shattered. I dragged out of my life at my, I dropped out my life in the shadows, grieving, seething alone in silence, outraged by my innocent friends, demise until I burst out like a madman swore. If I ever returned and triumph to our native Argos ever got the chance, I take revenge. And my oath provoked a storm of hatred. That was my first step on the slippery road to ruin. From then on Ulysses kept tormenting me, pressing charge on charge. From then on he brooded about this two edged rumors among the rank and file driven by guilt. He looked for ways to kill me. He never rested until making calculus his henchmen, but why now? Like go over that and giving ground again and stop."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. Right. So this is a very long speech. But the idea is with his poetry, he's able to elicit sympathy and that convinced the Trojans to let in the Trojan horse, even though the common sense tells them we shouldn't actually take gifts from strangers. Okay. Like we, we shouldn't actually let this thing in. We don't know what it is. And that's really the power of poetry. Okay. So that's sign on. And that's why he's condemned to hell because he hijacked people's imagination in order to feed them a false narrative. That destroyed their city. Okay. Now we're going to canto 30 and I want to reread the argument between master Adam, the counterfeiter and sign on. Okay. So this is line 91, canto 30, infernal, uh, line 91. Okay. And this is after master Adam told Dante his story of how he engaged in counterfeiting. And so the Florentine burner with a stake and I,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "to him, for those shoe, poor, poor sinners who give off smoke, like wet hands in the, winter and lie so close to you upon the right. I found them here. He answered when I rained down to this rocky slope, they've not stirred since and will not move. I think eternally one is the line woman who blamed Joseph, the other lines seen on Greek from Troy because of raging fever. They reek. So, and one of them who seemed to take offense, perhaps at being named so squalidly struck with his fist at Adam's rigid belly. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:11:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So I thought, I was just asking, Adam, who are these other two people being punished here? And Adam's like, well, and so he names them and one of them sign on who for all eternity has not stirred. He just, just lies there in a raging favor that fever, that's his punishment. He hears his name. He gets really angry and he takes, takes offense and punches Adam. Okay. Keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "It sounded as if it had been a drum and master Adam struck him in the face using his arm, which did not seem less hard saying to him, although I cannot move my limbs because they're too, too heavy. I still have an arm that's free to serve that need. And he replied, but when you went to burning, your arm was not as quick as it was now, though, when you coined, it was as quick as more."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So now they're just insulting each other. Okay."
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "text": "I keep on going to which the drop seed one here, you speak true, but you were not so true witness there when you were asked to tell the truth at Troy. If I spoke false, false, you falsified the coin that seen on I'm here for just one crime, but you've, you've committed more than any demon."
    },
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      "text": "So sometimes like, well, I spoke false, but you falsified the corn, right? And in most countries in every country, you would get punished a lot more for counterfeiting than you would for lying. Right? In fact, um, I, I, I think the worst punishment is counterfeiting, right? Oh, sorry. The worst crime is counterfeiting, right? Um, what does a single service do in the United States? It, it looks for counterfeiters. Okay. It's a very serious thing. And when Isaac Newton was head of the mint in, in the UK, in the, in England, if he caught, if he caught you kind of fitting, he would like basically, uh, torture you to death. Okay. It's a very serious thing. And so it sounds like just pointing this out, putting this out. Like you folks on the coins a lot worse than what I did. All I did was just lie. All right. Uh, keep on going,"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:13:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "not forget the horse. Your perjurer replied. The one who had the bloated that Valley may you be plagued because the whole world knows it."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And what I'm says is that for your lie, you let the Trojans letting the Trojan horse and that destroy the Trojan civilization. Okay. Uh, so the consequences were much worse."
    },
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      "text": "And you'd be plagued by thirst, that cracks your tongue and putrid water that has made your belly such a hedge before your eyes. And then the corner. So as usual, your mouth, because of racking fever gapes for, if I thirst, and if my humor blows me, you have both dryness and a head that aches few words would be sufficient invitation. She have you like the mirror of narcissists. I was intent on listening to them when this was what my master said. If you insist on looking more, I'll quarrel with you. And when I heard him speak so angrily, I turned around to him with shame. So great that it's still stirs within my memory."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So what is strange about this? What's going on? What, what stands out about this story about this passage? What does Virgil do here that he's never done before? And he'll never do it. Yeah."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "And actually he's stopping the conversation. He's stopping Dante from digging deeper."
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      "text": "Okay. But he's done that before, right? He switched topics. He's but, but here he's, he's doing something that he's never done before. And he'll never do it again."
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      "text": "He threatened Dante."
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      "text": "He's angry with Dante, right? He's never done that before. Okay. So what's he angry about? Why is he angry? All right. So the paradox is this, okay. Virgil is angry at Dante because. Dante is watching a fight between master Adam and Sinon, right? And, and master Adam and Sinon arguing who's worse. Master Adam says, son says you kind of fit at the coin. So you're worse. And then what should master Adam's response be? You kind of, the kind of the coin that's pretty bad, but there's something actually worse than counterfeiting the coin, which is what?"
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      "text": "Yes. Counterfeiting a gift in the sense that it's a it's a poisoned gift."
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      "text": "That's interesting. What's the worst thing you can do in university plagiarism, right? Plagiarism is a lot worse than counterfeiting the coin, right? If you're at university and you started to counterfeit money, yeah, they might put you in prison, but you plagiarized you would be falling out of university forever. But so what is Sinon plagiarizing? Do you guys know?"
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      "text": "Is it something that somebody says in the Bible? That you read the in the app, right? What is that plagiarizing? I can't remember. I'm sorry. You guys don't learn this at school. It was just for Latin translation. So, okay, so you've got parts of it. The major parts. Yeah."
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      "text": "plagiarism means to steal ideas, mother people and pretend it's your own."
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      "text": "Well, he's though poetry, maybe from who Virgil and Homer."
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      "text": "Yeah. So Virgil stole from Homer, right? The Iliad stole from the Iliad and the Odyssey, and it corrupted the Iliad in the Odyssey, much the way that a counterfeiter corrupts coin, right? You understand a counterfeiter takes real gold, dilutes it, add some lead and pretend it's real gold. A, what Virgil did was he stole from the Iliad in the Odyssey, polluted it and pretend it's real poetry. Do you understand? Okay. So, so this is drawing attention to the fact that basically Virgil plagiarized Homer and this, and this is why Virgil is angry because what, what does a plagiarizer hate the most to me being found out, right? Being accused of plagiarism, right? Um, and so Virgil's very, very angry. What's the paradox here? Excuse me."
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      "text": "Is it that he's the guy? Yeah."
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      "text": "Like why is sign on burning here and versus, okay. Right. Because it's Virgil who create the character sign on and allow sign on to lie. It's not sign on. That's a problem. It's the Ineos. That's a problem. Okay. Does that make sense? Yes."
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      "text": "Like before he died, he was like, please burn all this stuff. That means that his consciousness knows that what he did was wrong. So he sort of repented before he died."
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      "text": "Yeah. But if he repented, then where should he be?"
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      "text": "Uh, heaven? No,"
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      "text": "actually. Nimble,"
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      "text": "but which he is, but no,"
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      "text": "no, he should be in purgatory. Oh,"
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      "text": "purgatory. Yeah."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. Okay. So that's not the answer. Okay. It's possible, right? But again, this is raising a paradox, which is like, why is sign on here when the real culprit Virgil, the plagiarist, he's walking free around hell. He's able to control hell. He's able to, to decide that Cassius and Brutus will be tortured by Lucifer. Well, yes."
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      "text": "Well, I think because sign on actually believes that he did something wrong and Virgil believes that he did nothing wrong when he stole. So I think Virgil already forgave himself for what he did, but sign on can forgive himself for what he did to the, to the Trojans."
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      "text": "Okay. That's interesting. Okay. Yeah. Does sign on think he did anything wrong? He knows he lied, but he, did he do anything wrong?"
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      "text": "Is it that Virgil admits that he did plagiarism by being angry at being accused of plagiarism? Well,"
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      "text": "he's angry because he doesn't want to admit it. Right. Okay. So again, this could all, this creates all these paradoxes here. And so I want, I want you guys to keep this at the back of your mind. Why is it that Virgil is not, he's not punished at all for his crimes and why is hell structured the way it is? Yes."
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      "text": "But if Virgil is basically like Lucifer, then his main aim is to deceive Dante. So therefore he can't in front of Dante being seen to be punished for his sins."
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      "text": "Uh, but I don't understand this. His main aim is to deceive Dante to tempt Dante. I understand that, but why would it be allowed to do that? Okay. Uh, yes."
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      "text": "I think that he's made the master of hell. And one of the key things of the Aeneid was about duty and the killing of Tarnas. And I was thinking about this, why it's such a beautiful thing that Virgil is the guide and master of hell that many, many people who sin do so because they feel forced by themselves. And so Virgil is not being punished, but his punishment is that he has to guide everybody around because it's the very force that the Aeneid put into people's hearts that made them sin in years to come."
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      "text": "Um, okay. That's interesting. But, but, uh, the fact is that Virgil is not, not the guide of hell. He's got the guy to Dante. He was appointed by Beatrice to be the guide, but he's usually in limbo. Okay. But he can want around hell. He's very, he knows how very well, right? If he's able to climb, uh, Lucifer, then he knows hell like the back of his hand. So, but, but, but again, these are all paradoxes. And as we go into, uh, purgatory, the answers will be revealed to us. Okay. All right. So this is purgatory."
    },
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      "text": "One purgatory cantle one, the course across more kindly waters. Now, my talents, little vessel lifts her sails, leaving behind herself a sea. So cool. And what I sing will be that second kingdom in which the human soul is cleansed of sin, becoming worthy of ascent to heaven. But here, since I am yours, Oh, holy muses made this poem rise again from hell's dead realm and make hell. Yeah. I hope he rise somewhat here accompanying my singing with that music whose power struck the poor priorities so forcefully that they despaired of pardon the gentle hue of oriental Sapphire in which the sky serenity was steeped. It's aspect is aspect pure as far as the horizon. Okay."
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      "text": "So let me test your memory. Okay. So again, there's parallels, parallelism, I symmetry in the mind comedy. Um, here he's saying, I want, I now want to write about purgatory. I now sing about purgatory. So muses come and give me inspiration. Okay. In paradise. When he was running about the heavens, who did he call to inspire him? Apollo and the muses. Okay. Do you understand? So he's saying here purgatory, uh, the muses inspire me, but in heaven, I need everyone. I'll follow the muses. Everyone to fully inspire me. Okay. I keep on going."
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      "text": "Line 16 brought back my joy and seeing justice noon, as I had left behind, the air of death that had afflicted both my sight and breast, the lovely planet that is patron is of love made all the Eastern heavens. Glad veiling the Pisces in the train. She led. Then I turned to the right setting my mind upon the other pole and saw four stars not seen before, except by the first people haven't appeared to revel in their flames. Oh, Northern hemisphere, because you were denied that site. You're a widower. After my eyes took leave of those four stars, turning a little toward the other pole from which the Wayne had disappeared. By now I saw a solitary patriarch near me, his aspect worthy of such reverence that even son to father owes no more. His beard was long and mixed with white as where the hairs upon his head and his hair spread down to his chest and a divided trust."
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      "text": "The rays of the four holy stars. So framed his face with light that in my sight, he seemed like one who's confronted by the sun."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, stop. Okay. So the solitary patriarch, he is the master purgatory and his name is Kato. Can someone tell me why having Kato as a master purgatory is such a paradox?"
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      "text": "Yes, because he was born before the time of Jesus. So he should be in limbo. Exactly. Okay."
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      "text": "Number one is he is not a Christian. He is not a Christian. Virgil told us explicitly that unless you are baptized, you cannot leave limbo. Uh, yes,"
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      "text": "I think if my memory serves historically, that Kato was seen to be somebody who was so talented that whenever he did anything, it was like he had done it from birth, like, like he knew how to do it from birth. So for him to be the master of purgatory, that you live, and then this is your journey to heaven. It's ironic because he seemed to have grasped everything very quickly in his life."
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      "text": "Okay, sure. Okay. But, but, but, but that's not necessarily a paradox. Like the fact that he, that he is not a Christian, that's a paradox, but there are some other paradoxes as well. Why should Kato not be in purgatory? In fact, he should be infernal. Why?"
    },
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      "text": "Was he amongst the people who killed Caesar? No,"
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      "text": "but he rebelled against Caesar, right? He rebelled against Caesar. He was on the side of Pompeii. Um, so if I'm trying to figure this out, if Julius Caesar is in limbo, and if the people who killed Julius Caesar, uh, Brutus and Cassius are the worst people in the world, and Kato fought against Caesar, why is Caesar master of purgatory? Okay. That's, that's another paradox. And there's one more paradox. And it's actually the most, this is actually the biggest paradox. How did he die? Suicide, right? Suicide. In Catholic theology at this time, suicide goes straight to hell. No questions, no doubts straight to hell guys. Okay. So we have three axes against Kato. He's not a Christian. He rebelled against Caesar and he killed himself. Okay. So he should be in a circle of violence with the other people who committed suicide. He should be a tree. And now he's master of purgatory. So something is really weird going on."
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      "text": "Okay. Uh, yes."
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      "text": "I'm not sure how he, why he committed suicide. But I would guess it's because of his honor for, um, whatever, um, the side that he served for, for Pompey."
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      "text": "I would guess maybe he committed suicide because his side was losing and Caesar was offering clemency to everyone. Right. And so what was going to happen is Caesar would have come to Kato and says, Kato, I forgive you. And will you please be a Senator? And Kato was like, I don't want this crap. I'm going to kill myself because that's the honorable thing to do. Right. He did not want to give student Caesar the opportunity to show clemency. So that's pretty bad. I mean, to kill yourself for this, like, like it's kind of petty really. Right. All right. Um, so that's Kato and Kato and Virgil knew each other. Right. They are contemporaries. So Virgil and Dante are not in purgatory. Kato comes up and he sees Virgil. How should he react? I mean, how would you react if you saw someone from like a previous life? Yeah. You'd be pretty happy, right?"
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      "text": "You'd be pretty happy. Like a childhood best friend who you haven't seen for like 40 years. You're like, Oh my God, I run into you in the streets of Rome. Let's chat. Let's get a coffee. Let's reminisce. Right."
    },
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      "text": "Yes. Is this a suspicion that Virgil put Kato there in some way, or that he was responsible for Kato being killed? In purgatory."
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      "text": "In purgatory. Okay. Because Virgil, where's Virgil?"
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      "text": "At this moment or in general? In general. In limbo."
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      "text": "In limbo."
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      "text": "In limbo."
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      "text": "Right. And why is he in limbo? Because he was brought up there as by. There's, there's only one reason why he, he he's in limbo according to, to, to Virgil. He's not a Christian, right? He was not baptized as a Christian. That's the only reason, right? So it doesn't make any sense why he would, uh, tell us this and then put Kato in purgatory. Okay. All right. So yeah, we would imagine that Virgil and Kato are good friends and it would be a happy reunion. Okay. Uh, let's keep on reading."
    },
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      "text": "Line 40. Who are you? Who against the hidden river were able to escape the eternal prison? He said, moving those venerable plumes. Who was your guide? What served you both as lantern? When from the deep night that will always keep the hellish valley dark, you were set free. The lost of the abyss. Have they been broken? Or has a new, a changed decree in heaven let you though damned approach my rocky slope?"
    },
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      "text": "There's a really ironic sentence here. What is it? What's the really ironic sentence in the speech? It's really ironic. Nope. Where should Kato be? He should be in Limbo at least, right? So, so what does he say that that's kind of ironic? It's like, uh, what? That he knows what hell is like? No, no. I'm saying like, what did he say in the speech? That's ironic. Well, you're able to escape. Yeah. Like, how did you get here? It's like, well, okay, Kato, but how did you get here? Right? That's kind of ironic. All right. How are you able to escape the eternal prison? The eternal prison is like, no one can escape it, but he did. All right. So it's ironic. All right. Uh, keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Line 49. My guide took hold of me decisively by way of words and hands and other signs. He made my knees and brow show reverence. Then he replied, I do not come through my own self. There was a lady sent from heaven. Her, please let me to help and guide this man. But since your will would have a far more full and accurate account of our condition, my will cannot withhold what you request. This man had yet to see his final evening, but through his folly, little time was left before he left. He did. He was so close to it. As I have told you, I was sent to him for his deliverance. The only rule road I could have taken was the road I took. I showed him all the people of perdition. Now I intend to show to him those spirits who in your care are bent on expiation. To tell you how I led him would take, take long."
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      "text": "It is a power descending from above that helps me guide him here to see and hear you. Now, may it please you to prove his coming. He goes in search of Liberty. So precious. As he, as he gives his life for it, let's know. You know it, who in Utica found death for freedom was not bitter when you left the garb that will be bright on the great day. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So he's referencing, Virgil is referencing how Cato killed himself in Utica rather than submit to Caesar. Okay. All right. Keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Line 76. Eternal edicts are not broken for us. This man's alive and I'm not bound by Minos, but I'm from the circle where the chaste eyes of your Marsha are. And she still prays to you, a holy breast to keep her as your own for her love, then inclined to us. I'll let, allow our journey through your seven realms. I shall thank her for kindness. You bestow. If you would let your name be named below."
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      "time_label": "2:33:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So, um, Virgil is telling, uh, Cato, uh, why they're, they're, they're here. And Virgil explains that Dante is not dead so he can move around. And he, he, he was not, never sentenced to the inner circles of hell. So he's free to move around. And also Cato, hey, uh, your wife, Marcia, she's with me. And if you help us, then I'll go back and help Marcia. Okay. Does it sound like friends to you? All right. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, In between here. Okay."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "nine, eighty -five while I was there within the other world, Marcia, so pleased my eyes. He then replied each kindness she required I satisfied. Okay,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "so he's saying before he was in limbo. K, right before I was in limbo with Marcia. Can I going now,"
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      "text": "not that she dwells beyond the evil river. She has no power to move me any longer. As such with the laira creed when I was freed, but if a lady comes and\". from heaven speeds and helps you as you say there's no need of flattery it is enough indeed to ask me for her sake go then but first wind a smooth rush around his waist and bathe his face to wash away all of hell's stains for it would not be seemly to approach with eyes still dimmed by any myths the first custodian angel one from paradise this solitary island all around its very base there where the breakers pound bears rushes on a soft and muddy ground there's no other plant that lives below no plant with leaves or plant that as it grows hardens and breaks beneath the waves harsh blows that done do not return by this same past the sun which rises"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "now will show you how this hillside can be climbed more easily so um virgil says"
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      "text": "how does kato respond to virgil's speech anyone rather sarcastic"
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "text": "or does he like does he like he hates virgil he's like don't mention marcia to me you"
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      "text": "okay i want to help you because beatrice uh told me to but that's why not because uh you can help marcia okay so they're they're like enemies they don't really like each other and this makes you question who virgil really is right what is kato not like"
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "text": "um virgil yes um in in line 95 96 he he tells him um that his face and his body should be washed of hell basically so he he knows that virgil is hell itself or like he he has so much so many like"
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "text": "yeah this is a really really interesting reading right so literally just means dante has been through hell and his face is dirty right because hell is like lots of dirt and fire so go wash your face because this is purgatory but you can also say that it's metaphorical in that um virgil has corrupted dante in this journey by feeding him a lot of lies about um about hell so what's important is for dante to begin to cleanse himself of virgil's lies okay right to remove virgil's influence from himself yeah that that's very interesting reading yes"
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      "text": "okay all right uh let's let's keep on reading 109 with that he vanished and without a word i wrote and drew in closer to my guide and it was on him that i set my eyes and he began son following my step let us go back this is the point at which the plane slopes down to reach its lowest bounds daybreak was vanquishing the dark last hour which fled before it in the distance i could recognize the trembling of the sea we made our way across the lonely plane like one returning to a lost pathway who till he finds it seems to move in vain when we had reached the point where dew contends the sun and undersea winds and the shade wins out because it won't evaporate my master gently placed both of his hands outspread upon the grass therefore aware of what his gesture and intention were i reached and offered him my"
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      "text": "tear strained cheeks and on my cheeks he totally revealed the color that inferno had concealed then we arrived at the deserted shore which never yet had seen its waters coursed by any man who journeyed back again there just as pleased another he girt me oh wonder where he plucked the humble plant that he had chosen there that plant sprang up again identical immediately okay so we are um in the beaches"
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      "text": "of purgatory okay so purgatory is a mountain in order to cleanse yourself you climb up this mountain in each terrace of the mountain you have to do an activity to cleanse yourself of the seven um deadly sins um but we are not on the mountain yet we are outside the mountain on the beaches this is a place called anti -purgatory which is people who uh repentant late in life and so they must wait and fully uh serve their penance before they're allowed to enter purgatory once they enter purgatory and they cleanse themselves then they are able to ascend to heaven yes so is there a sense of time in purgatory uh that's a really good question um so what dante is gonna do a lot is talk about the sun rise okay and um one thing that's really important to us to keep in mind is that the rules governing purgatory are different from the"
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      "text": "rules governing hell hell is like eternal torment there's no time it's all just fire and darkness but in purgatory's there's night and day and you can only climb during the day at night you have to rest and this will be very important for us because during the night you dream right um so the dreams are gonna be very uh important as well okay so there's time but i don't i don't but like i don't know how to tell time because a lot of this is astronomy right reading the stars figure out where the sun is and i i actually don't know how that works okay because you say that the the mind creates"
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      "text": "time and space to just uh to um see reality or like to percept reality right did we create time and purgatory to accept purgatory or like this time out of ourselves in that sense okay this is"
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      "text": "a really interesting question because one very important idea in purgatory is that you have to start learning your own knowledge if you're going to learn something new you're going to have to serve your time right it could be a million years and it could be a thousand years and so i think the idea of time in purgatory is it's not physical time right it's not like you know you actually uh keep a clock and you wait 10 000 years it's really about emotional time so basically it's like you're meditating and you made you're meditating and trying to cleanse your soul and um it doesn't we don't actually know physically how much time it takes okay but there there is a time element to it does that make sense okay so so um um i really don't understand time out well in purgatory okay all right uh let's let's keep on reading canto two"
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      "text": "you by now the sun was crossing the horizon of the meridian whose highest point covered jerusalem and from the ganges night circling opposite the sun was moving together with the scales that when the length of dark defeats the day desert night's hand so that above the shore that i had reached the fair auroras white and scarlet cheeks were as aurora aged becoming orange we still were by the sea like those who think about the journey they will undertake who go in heart but in the body stay and just as the sun was crossing the horizon of the meridian whose highest point covered it as Mars when it is overcome by the invading mists of dawn, glows red above the water's plain, low in the west, so there appeared to me, and may I see it again, a light that crossed the sea. So swift, there's no flight of bird to equal it. When for a"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "moment I'd withdrawn my eyes that I might ask the question of my guide, I saw that light again, larger and more bright."
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      "text": "Okay, so to continue your question, clearly there's time here, right? And there was no time in hell. So we discussed how we create time and space with our imagination. So I think the idea here is that in hell, we're just trapped in hell. There is no time and space because we're just trapped there. Whereas in purgatory, there's now motion, meaning there is now free will, meaning there is now agency. There's more, you can now actively participate in life. Does that make sense?"
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      "text": "Yeah, but Kato was in hell before, right? So how did he escape without a free will if you say there's no free will in hell?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, that is a paradox, okay? And here we will just have to use our imagination. Does anyone know how we can resolve this paradox?"
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      "text": "Yes? My memory is quite hazy, but I thought that maybe it was Jesus or some redeeming force who is shunting people up, shunted the very best souls up from inferno and that they didn't make it to heaven, but then they were either in limbo or therefore in purgatory."
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      "text": "Exactly, yeah. So what we know is that Jesus did take away with him the best souls. But the people he took were like of the Hebrew Bible, right? David, Abraham, Moses. What is Kato doing with them? Okay, so this is hard, okay? But one possible solution is this. So what we learn in paradise is that there are certain people who were born before the time of Jesus. And even though they were not officially Christian and that they were baptized, they were Christian at their heart was in the right place, okay? And they knew that Jesus was coming and so they prepared for the coming of Jesus, even though they did not see Jesus in their lifetime. Does that make sense? And Kato must have been one of these individuals who knew Jesus was coming and he submitted himself before Jesus, even though, and he didn't live long enough for the coming of Jesus. And when"
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      "text": "Jesus went down to hell, he could see that Kato, even though he was not officially Christian, he was in his heart Christian, okay? Does that make sense, guys? Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "With the Catholic doctrine as well. That's why Catholic is very well embracing, not really, but I don't know if it's the right word, but yeah, of the people who fundamentally in essence has these doctrines or, you know, live out the life of faith, however you define faith. But yeah. Yeah."
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      "text": "Later on, we will discover people who are actually like that, okay? They did not convert to Christianity in their lifetime, but in their hearts, they were Christian, okay? Uh, before Jesus came, they were already Christian and that's why they were able to ascend to purgatory as well as to paradise, okay? We'll learn more about this later on, right? Uh, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Yeah. So, but I have a question because as you said, only your heart is not enough for you to go to the heaven, but you have to baptize, right? Or?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, but that's what they're saying here. It's not the act that matters. It's the heart that matters. It's the will and the desire that matters. Okay. Um, okay. Yes."
    },
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      "text": "Jesus also said that greater is the he who has faith before he has seen it. So it's a lot of these people before he was born sort of believed in him or believe in some sort of this idea of redemption on Messiah, then they have greater faith to the disciples like Peter or John, who has seen them put their hands through Jesus, Peter's hands, uh, that, you know, these forefathers, whoever they are in the, uh, yeah, deserves."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes. Okay. So that, that's a logic. Okay. I, again, we'll never know. It's just, it's a paradox created, uh, by the divine comedy, but this is one way to resolve this paradox. All right. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "Line 22, then to each side of it, I saw whiteness though. I did not know what the whiteness was below another whiteness. Lily showed my master did not say a word before the whiteness. His first scene appeared as wings, but then when he had recognized the helmsman, he cried, Ben, bend your knees, behold the angel of God and join your hands from this point on. This is the kind of minister you'll meet."
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      "text": "Okay. So it's, this is angels that are guardians of purgatory. Okay. Before in hell, there was these demons. Now they're these angels. So at each major checkpoint, there are these angels. Uh, keep on going."
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      "text": "Line 31, see how much scoring he has for human means. He'd have. He'd have no other sale than his own wings and use no, or between such distance shores, see how he holds his wings, pointing to heaven, piercing the air with his eternal opinions, which do not change as mortal plumage does then he, that bird divine, as he drew closer and closer to us seemed to gain in brightness so that my eyes could not endure his nearness and I was forced to lower them and he came on to shore with boats. So light, so quick that nowhere did the water swallow it. The helmsman sent from heaven at the start. So light, so quick that nowhere did the water swallow it. Seemed to have blessedness inscribed upon him more than a hundred spirits sat within in exit to Israel day, Egypt to with what is written after that Psalm of all of the spirits sang as with one voice."
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      "text": "Then over them, he made the Holy crosses sign. They flung themselves down on the shore and he moved off as he had come swiftly. The crowd that he had left along the beach seemed not to know the place. They looked about like those whose eyes try out things. New to them upon all sides, the sun shot forth the day and from mid heaven, it's incisive arrows already had chased Capricorn away when those who just arrived looked at their heads toward us and said, do show us, if you know the way by which we can ascend the slope and Virgil answered, you may be convinced that we're quite familiar with this shore, but we're strangers here. Just as you are, we came, but now a little while before you though, by another path, so difficult and dense that this ascent seems sport to us. The souls who noticing my breathing sense that I was still a living being then out of astonishment turned pale."
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      "text": "And just as people crowd around a messenger who bears an olive branch to hear his news, and no one hesitates to join that crush. So here are those happy spirits. All of them start hard at my face, just as if they had forgotten to proceed to their perfection. I saw one of those spirits moving forward in order to embrace me. His affection. So great that I was moved to. Mine. I'm his welcome."
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      "text": "Okay, stop. Okay. All right. So again, this is mirroring hell. Remember, remember how, um, when Virgil took, uh, Dante into hell, that's across the river Akron, right? And there's all these souls lining up to cross the river. And the same thing is happening here with your souls lining up to cross the river into anti purgatory, uh, the area before the mountain. Can you explain to me? Or just list for me the differences between these two groups, the first group in hell, second group in purgatory, what are the differences you notice it's pretty stark, actually these, these differences, what are they doing here that souls didn't do in hell looking around?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Yes, this is very important."
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      "text": "Okay. You understand they're curious. Okay. Remember, and like, it's very explicit, uh, the line, right? Um, their eyes try, look, look at that life. 54. Whose eyes trout things new to them. They're curious. They want to learn. Okay. It's pretty stark. That's one. They're curious. What's the other thing?"
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      "text": "Yes. Uh, asking about the place."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "They ask, they talk, man. Think about it. How in, how in, uh, in hell the souls just didn't talk, right? They talk, they ask questions."
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      "text": "Yes. I feel like in spirit, they feel a lot more optimistic."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. Yeah. They're active, right? Whereas, uh, in infernal, they were passive. They were just indifferent. Nothing could move them. Uh, yes."
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      "text": "73. So here, those happy spirits, all of them stare hard at my face. So it's like, they're really happy. Like people in hell, it's not very happy."
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      "text": "That's right. They're happy. They're optimistic. Exactly. Yes. And also what are they doing that that never happens in hell? They're embracing each other. They're touching each other. Uh, what else, what, what are they doing here? That never happens in hell, but happens a lot in heaven seeing, right? Look, look at line 46, right? 46 to 48. Those spirits sang with one voice. Okay. So this is a pretty strict, like the economy, right? That the souls in hell were passive, indifferent. They just accept their fate. Whereas here, the souls are curious. They want to learn. So, so what's this really saying about who's in hell and who, and who's in purgatory? Who, who goes to hell? Who goes to purgatory? Yes."
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      "text": "Hell is a place of inactivity or being very passive and no curiosity, no consciousness, no wanting to learn or improve, no agency. And then purgatory is like, we sin a little bit, but we're still happy. We still want to try to get better. We're just people at fault, but we are still trying."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "start": 10385.28,
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      "time_label": "2:53:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Exactly. Yes. Just similar to that, that they have an optimistic mindset, a growth mindset."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "start": 10392.08,
      "end": 10438.69,
      "time_label": "2:53:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "It's attitude, right? It's they choose. It's like, um, do you guys know Carol Dwight? Right. Carol, Carol Dwight, Dwight. Yeah. You probably know her. Um, but you know, she's a Stanford psychologist and she says that in life, there are those who succeed and those who fail. And the main difference is in attitude, right? Those who succeed. Have a growth. Mindset, which is to say, they're always looking to get better. Okay. They accept adversity. They accept failure as opportunities to improve themselves. Whereas fixed people, fixed mindset. Don't believe they can ever improve. And there's accept things as they are. They're afraid of failure. Okay. And that's the difference between, uh, hell and purgatory."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "collection": "episodes",
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      "start": 10442.86,
      "end": 10443.36,
      "time_label": "2:54:02",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Okay."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So this is radical because Kato shows us is not necessarily what you do that condemns you to hell or purgatory. It's what your attitude is, what you believe, what you choose to do. That's important. Okay. Your mindset. That's important. Okay. Does that make sense? All right. Uh, let's, let's keep on reading."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "start": 10468.39,
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      "time_label": "2:54:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Line 79. Oh, shades and all except appearance empty. Three times. I clasped my hands behind him and it's often brought them back against my chest. This may, I think was painted on my face at this, that shadow smiled as he withdrew and I still seeking him again. Advanced gently. He said that I could now stand back. Then I knew who he was and I beseeched him to remain a while and talk with me. He answered as I loved you when I was within my mortal flesh, though freed, I love you. Therefore I stay, but you, why do you journey my own casella to return again to where I am? I journeyed thus, but why I said, were you deprived of so much time and he, no injury is done to me if he, who's takes up home. And when he passed. Pleases has kept me from this crossing many times for his own will derives from a just will."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/transcript/#seg-0432",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSmJKnUOsAc&t=10520s",
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      "start": 10520.77,
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      "time_label": "2:55:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "And yet for three months now, he has accepted more, most tranquilly, all those who would embark. Therefore I, who had turned then to the shore at which the Tiber's water makes the salt was gathered in by his benevolence straight to that river mouth. He said his wings that always is the place of gathering for those who do not sink to Akron and I, if there's no new law. That. Denies. You memory or practice of the songs of love that used to quiet all my longings, then may it please you with those songs to solace my soul somewhat for having journeyed here together with my body. It is weary love that discourses to me in my mind. He then began to sing and sang so sweetly that I still hear that sweetened sound in me, my master, I, and all that company around the singer seems so satisfied as if no other thing might touch, touch my, our minds."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/transcript/#seg-0433",
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      "text": "We all were motionless. And fixed upon the notes when all at once the grave old man cried out, what have we here? You laggard spirits. What negligence? What lingering is this quick to the mountain to cast off the slough that will not let you see God show himself."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSmJKnUOsAc&t=10589s",
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      "start": 10589.36,
      "end": 10619.64,
      "time_label": "2:56:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So, um, Dante sees an old friend from Florence. Uh, this friend has died. Um, and they're very happy to see each other. Okay. This is a contrast between when, uh, Virgil and Kato saw each other. Okay. They, they reminisce. They, they talk about. Uh, their past, um, and then Kato sees him and says like, like, get out of here, stop lingering, right? Move on. Okay. Um, so, uh, there's a contrast here and again, Donnie does this a lot. Okay. Keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/transcript/#seg-0435",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSmJKnUOsAc&t=10625s",
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      "start": 10625.21,
      "end": 10651.03,
      "time_label": "2:57:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "If line one, two, four, even as stubs assembled where they feed quietly, gathering their grain or weeds forgetful of their customary strut. Well, if something appears that makes them fear immediately leave their food behind because. They're assailed by greater care. So did I see that new come company, they left the song behind, turned towards the slope, like those who go and yet do not know where, and we were no less hasty in departure."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "time_label": "2:57:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Let's continue."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/transcript/#seg-0437",
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      "start": 10661.32,
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      "time_label": "2:57:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Conto three, but while their sudden flight was scattering, those souls across the plan toward the mountain, where we're racked by rightful punishments, I drew in closer to my true companion for how could I have run ahead without him? Who could have helped me? As I climbed the mountain. He seemed like one who's stung by self -reproved, Oh, pure and noble conscience, you in whom each petty fault becomes a harsh rebuke and when his feet had left off hurrying for haste denies all acts, their dignity, my mind, which was before to focus for more curious and widened his attention. I set my vision toward the slope that rises most deeply up to heaven from the sea behind my back. The sun was flaming red, but they're ahead of me. It's light was shattered because it's raised for resting on my body. And when I saw the ground was dark in front of me and me alone, afraid that I had been abandoned."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/transcript/#seg-0438",
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      "time_label": "2:58:32",
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      "text": "I turned to my side and he my only comfort as he turned around began. Why must you still mistrust? Don't you believe that I am with and guide you the body from within which I cast shadows is buried where it now is even take taken from Brindisi. It now belongs to Naples. Thus, if no shadow falls in front of me, do not be more amazed than when you see the. heavens not impede each other's race the power has disposed such bodiless bodies to suffer torment heat and cold how this is done he would not have us know foolish is he who hopes our intellect can reach the end of that unending road only one substance and three persons follows confine yourself oh humans to the queer had you been able to see all there would have been no need for mary"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "time_label": "2:59:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "to give birth okay stop okay all right so this is actually a very important part of um this poem so i want to analyze it uh in depth okay first of all explain to me what the relationship now is between virgil and dante how would you describe the relationship yes like dante's a little bit"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/transcript/#seg-0440",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "like a teenager so virgil has given birth to him and now he's looking at he still really trusts him and likes him but he sees that he doesn't have a shadow and that's one of the ways that you know you can climb the mountain because you're walking towards your shadow trying to deal with your yeah sin and so he's thinking how much of a guide is he really going to be if he's clearly not from here and he's not an expert"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-ssmjknuosac/transcript/#seg-0441",
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      "end": 10845.92,
      "time_label": "3:00:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "of this place um okay um that's one way to interpret it but i i kind of disagree with that okay i i i like um how does donnie feel about virgil when so so again the idea is that don has a body so he's able to see his own shadow virgil doesn't have a body and uh you can't see a shadow this is not a problem in hell because there are no shadows in hell this is a problem here in purgatory right why is dante upset about"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "time_label": "3:00:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "not seeing virgil shadow yes dante may be upset that he can feel that he's getting close to overtaking virgil outgrowing him no no uh yes"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "time_label": "3:01:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "um dante's very insecure and he felt that he's abandoned by version i think so i think it's not"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:01:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "i think it's insecurity right it's like like he needs virgil constantly beside him he can't see the shadow he's nervous like where's virgil and virgil like don't worry i'm still with you i'm gonna guide you relax man okay that's exactly what what they're saying here okay does that make sense so it shows you how dependent has become on virgil it is dante it is virgil who lifted out of hell and now donnie is now dependent on virgil to lift him up to purgatory okay and again this is a pilgrimage this is a journey where donnie has to learn to become independent um okay now a really important tercet okay i i want you to focus on this tercet um is no 30 34 39 okay i want to focus on this it's like really important um foolish as he hopes our intellect can reach the end of that unending road only one substance in three"
    },
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      "text": "referring to trinity but what is the one substance the monad to me the monad uh no the substance"
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      "text": "what's the substance love right who said um the trinity is three persons and they all have the same substance who said that dante when peter was asking him what is faith do you believe in the holy trinity i do i believe that they that the trinity exists they all come from the same essence which is love okay so this is what dante will say in heaven confine yourselves all humans look to equate have not been able to see all there would be have been no need for mary to give birth okay have been no need for mary to give birth what what virgil is saying is um what no need for mary to give birth what should what she what could he say what could he say instead of this or you know something much more appropriate to christian theology if we knew better then there would be no need for what to happen for"
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      "text": "jesus to come right why is it there'll be no need for mary to give birth who who says this it who says this dante dante as well okay well not actually that donnie bernard says this in paradise right it is mary giving birth that is the true miracle not jesus sacrificing himself this is all coming from the mouth of virgil do you understand and these ideas will be presented to us in paradise"
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      "text": "what's the paradox here yes where did he get to know these if what he said in paradise was something"
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      "text": "he's supposed to learn from his journey yeah like this is really confusing for us because we just said virgil is in limbo and virgil could possibly be the master of hell this is our speculation we don't have evidence this is the case how is it suppose never been to paradise how is he able to know this stuff right we'll discover this stuff in paradise but we are in purgatory right now and virgil has spent all of eternity in limbo where is he getting this stuff from this is these are things that donnie will discover once in heaven but already virgil understands this stuff how can we explain this paradox yeah i just guess maybe jesus got two"
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      "text": "two sides one side is uh jesus another side is lucifer how about is it possible okay so you're"
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      "text": "saying that virgil is both lucifer and jesus that's it that's interesting yes maybe when he's"
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      "text": "um with when he sat in the church right now there's a reaction into theם he's in fire and ق именно alsطι youngest one of them is ph��� purple and thiskar contrasted with litmus that the transfiguration ofoya oferminkhe reallyソگرہfully 나bas going to go fruits and você 凡 fandom super 9 and you guys don't uh don't like that at all crime so nice um liu uncertain isso é uma demonstração sobre umGS aso voice need some time to take if you already understood the"
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      "text": "i'm trying to figure out how he knows two things that are revealed to us in heaven the first is that the holy trinity is has one essence which is love so god is love basically right second thing is like he knows that mary is the one who redeemed us not jesus he knows this so i'm saying how how could he know this he was there he went there he went there he was there he went there and how did he end up in limbo like you said he chose us not to be there he was like"
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      "text": "oh this place is great but i have to be like a servant to god and i want to do that so i'm coming"
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      "text": "back you could have gone there because he's explicit right you cannot leave hell unless you can't go to heaven unless you're a christian right uh yes um did beatrice tell him when she"
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      "text": "assigned him the task why would beatrice tell him this stuff fine like yes dante guesses it and ascribes it to virgil"
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      "text": "no no no no virgil's a teacher versus a father dante is a student and a son right so dante would never be as presumptuous as to teach this to virgil and donnie does not know this yet right he only knows this when he goes up to heaven so how can virgil know this well technically lucifer"
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      "text": "was really close to god right keep on going right and therefore he understands the essence the substance the three persons and therefore i don't know a fragment of lucifer is with virgil okay that's a good start okay"
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      "text": "that's very close keep on going keep going on that logic yes for the devil to distort the truth"
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      "text": "means that he knows the truth very well in its fabrics to be able to tear it apart deconstruct it cancel it yes so then he probably revealed that to virgil like this is the essence but we are like"
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      "text": "like try to divert well no no no okay the first part was right the second part is like you're saying lucifer talked to virgil right but he can't talk but lucifer can't talk"
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      "text": "so how does virgil know this yes it's the opposite of what happens of what he sees of lucifer in hell so it's like three sinners are digested into one substance which is evil and that the opposite it's"
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      "text": "the opposite of the immaculate conception okay so that's an interesting theory okay and that explains the trinity it doesn't explain mary okay who is virgil what does he do he's a poet and we're poets they're channeling god right you understand this is how dante is able to write this he's channeling god he actually doesn't probably doesn't even know what he's writing okay we probably we're probably better at analyzing this poetry than dante i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i mean like i'm not exaggerating dante's just it's just like seeing the truth of the universe he doesn't really know what he's singing and that's what a poet is a poet is a vessel for the divine fire okay so if virgil knows this truth but he wrote the ennead what is he saying"
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      "text": "about virgil to me that virgil virgil is uh is more or less a lucifer figure but why is he lucifer because he knows the truth but choose to not to tell the truth"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "no no no yes well i mean in a way he was forced by augustus to like speak poetry but like um use it for a empire way so so so in god's eyes what did you do well he"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "you betrayed god you betrayed god you understand the great betrayer is virgil not lucifer okay so he was a great betrayer but he betrayed god also and now you can just think about this just think about this does that make sense guys because god gave you the greatest gift possible which is poetry which is divine true and you distorted it in order to serve empire that's a great betrayal right who's lucifer lucifer is someone who uh betrayed god and"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "want to seek power uh yes then why is virgil in limbo that's a really good question yes"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "is it because he left an easter egg that is it because he left an easter egg that when enneas is about to get beat up and he is going to die together to get Apply for what? out to kill turnus he debates it a lot and then he sees palace's sword belt on turnus and that's what makes him finally kill him but that's we don't know whether that's fully true or not but at least it's maybe virgil saying that there was another thing which made me make a neos kill turnus in the aeneid and it wasn't just the whole message that it seemed kind of like a red herring that it was palace's sword belt that made him kill turnus when it was his divine destiny to do"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay okay that's a good point okay so like try to visualize what's happening okay god give virgil the divine fire okay just as he's he gave um donnie the divine fire just as he gave shakespeare the divine fire okay this is all divine fire this is not yours this is god's okay and then augustus says okay you know what give me that divine fire and we'll craft a weapon together well if you do that if you put the divine light into the weapon someone's gonna leak out does it make sense and that's why there's so many inconsistencies in the in the ad including the one of where india shows mercy or what's so mercy to turn is and then in the end decides to kill me anyway okay so there are a lot of inconsistencies in the in the ad because you're trying to weaponize the divine fire and the divine fire does not want"
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      "text": "to be weaponized okay it's meant to uh like enlighten the world it's not meant to be directed as a weapon of empire all right but um do you guys do you guys understand this this this idea that virgil is a great betrayer because god gave him divine fire and rather than enlighten the world like what donnie is doing with divine comedy he he chooses to corrupt it in a way that serves empire for his own personal benefit and this is a great betrayal of humanity right imagine if jesus came and he's like screw this mission i'm gonna side with the romans yeah right yeah because like i don't be crucified and the romans are are gonna give me a two hundred dollars screw screw this mission right is that a great betrayal of god and it's also a picture of humanity yes"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "yeah and that's exactly what the jews hated jesus for because they really wanted a real messiah who was a militant leader just like julius caesar they really wanted jesus that's right well not side with the romans or fight against the romans that's why they denied him the title of messiah"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:13:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "that's right exactly because jesus was a prophet of peace and they wanted a prophet of war yes okay does that make sense so so again we're speculating but like again it's a huge problem for us how these two ideas where god is love and mary is what redeemed us these are the two main ideas of paradise how are they appearing in the mouth of virgil right and the answer is well because he had access to divine fire but he chose to corrupt it but it doesn't answer the question"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:14:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "is like how did virgil end up in limbo as a poet it's where he can be the most creative because heaven is kind of a place you can't touch or manipulate whereas in hell he can create his own story and also put who he wants in it yes and like as we see how is basically created by virgil and he knows the place because he created it exactly okay so one explanation is that virgil"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "created hell and donna created heaven okay so ultimately what's happening is a war between heaven and hell the hell conceptualized by virgil and heaven conceptualized by dante that's one"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "uh yes yeah so that's like a theory i had about hell is that dante is basically entering um virgil's mind but he does enter virgil's mind how how oh yeah that's that's the point i don't"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "understand okay but how does he enter virgil's mind by going into hell no no no how does he enter virgil's mind yeah in fact he becomes virgil's mind because what does he do he read the indian he read the indian right that's what the indian is it's a mind of virgil it is hell you understand it's a blueprint for hell imagine a world in which love is a disease right and you can just kill any woman that you want okay imagine a world about mercy about forgiveness right your enemy you must kill you can never show mercy to your enemy that is hell no forgiveness no mercy no love just pure obedience that's what hell is okay so the inyad is the expression of hell and the body comedy is the expression of heaven but is it possible to read divine comedy without reading the inyad is it possible it's not possible because you don't"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "start": 11789.45,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "understand what's going on okay you understand there are lots of characters here and only by reading the inyad can you truly appreciate divine comedy so heaven and hell need each other okay they're at war with each other but actually they also need each other sushi each other called the complementary of each other okay so that that's the other idea here okay but that still doesn't answer so one possibility is okay well virgil created hell and donna created heaven okay but how can we explain another how can we further explain why virgil is in limbo and not being punished for betraying god i'm not sure if we already answered this in the last question"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "but could it just be that dante feels that he couldn't be dante without virgil right so"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "so he appreciates virgil's okay so so that's that's all possibility right dante knows he cannot be done about virgil because and he says this like he grew up being nourished and nursed by the iniad right but why would that lead to virgil in limbo"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:17:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "okay yes virgil is still using imagination truth beauty and poetry so it's still god's gift so because he's using that he's not going to be punished still a creator no no no that's even worse right that's even worse i mean if you don't know anything"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "and you you behave like and you behave like virgil does that's one thing but like to know that you're behaving the wrong way and you still choose to do it that's that's you know that's um that's even worse okay all right so let's think about this in the universe of dante um where should"
    },
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      "text": "virgil be to me in the inferno which part of the inferno the very bottom in one of the mouths of"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:18:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "satan yeah right right he's the great betrayer much worse than satan he is a great betrayer and who said instead cassius and buddhas right so what even happened again we're only speculating okay we're using our imagination we're trying to figure out how this system works right because in dante's framework virgil the place where he belongs is in the mouth of lucifer being chewed to death because his betrayal is the same as lucifer's betrayal lucifer betrayed god and virgil betrayed humanity right it's the iniat that has condemned europe to a thousand years of hell just endless war"
    },
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      "text": "endless suffering okay no mercy no love yes uh divine comedy inferno is not dante's framework but"
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      "text": "virgil's framework right right right right so so that's one possibility but i'm saying like let's do another another possibility right let's just say like virgil is master of hell he can he can show hell in any way he wants and there's something that anyone can do about it even god what's another possibility okay and the other possibility is okay let's go with donnie's framework and in donnie's framework um let's go with donnie's framework and in donnie's framework virgil is in the bottom of hell being chewed and tortured by lucifer how"
    },
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      "text": "would he have gone out of that situation uh yes only through dante himself like dante himself puts virgil into limbo because he loves him so much maybe or he forgives him okay right uh yes"
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      "text": "he got temporarily moved out by beatrice and the other ladies from heaven and yeah just for this purpose but he really doesn't want dante to know that's the truth so"
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      "text": "yeah that's a possibility do you guys understand that you understand that because beatrice has a problem right beatrice is like dante is lost in the woods someone has to help him and who's the only guy possible virgil promise virgil is in hell being true to life because of his betrayal of humanity but we're but in the world okay who does dante admire the most who could guide dante out of hell only virgil right because only virgil knows hell that much because he's at the very bottom so he understands the very essence of hell so they might have made a deal right where i i this all speculation okay but you can see how this might work where beatrice says to virgil okay we'll give you a special reprieve you help dante and then dante and and then we'll we'll you know uh move your limbo and then we'll put in put us in cast as"
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      "text": "you"
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      "text": "in your in your place it doesn't make sense metaphorically it makes sense because dante probably wouldn't have written the comedy without virgil's influence exactly exactly right so um"
    },
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      "text": "tomorrow uh we talked to um david bromwich and david bromwich had mentor was harold bloom right and harold bloom wrote a very famous book called anxiety of influence and and very high very idea of anxiety influence is how is how does creation happen how is it possible for people like milton and keats and shakespeare to create great arts of work a quick great great uh artwork and the answer is inside of influence where as a young poet you are so burdened by a higher poet right so milton was burdened by shakespeare and you think that oh it's impossible for me to surpass him and you try your very best to imitate him you try you've got to try your very best to imitate him you you've got to马上 you try your very best to become him but in this process um of trying to become him you recognize the problems in this and then you"
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      "text": "develop your own creativity it doesn't make sense you can't do it in a vacuum you can't do it in a blank slate you have to fully embrace someone and then defeat that person right it is very similar to the father -son dynamic right where you first become a father then you kill the father to become yourself let's kill the father okay don't kill your father but like you know you leave your father behind this is what's happening right now uh literally between virgil and dante okay donnie has become virgil's son and he's trying to become virgil but in the process he will discover the limitations of um virgil and become his own poet okay does that make sense and it's very similar to the way i teach where you know the first few days i was trying to give you a lot of ideas i was trying to give you a lot of ideas i"
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      "text": "was trying to give you a lot of ideas but over time um as you have you as you have this framework that i've given you this framework allows you to better analyze the divine comedy and over time if you keep on doing this you'll discover i can build my own favorite i don't need this for grain framework anymore but you first need that framework okay it doesn't make sense all right does that answer answer your question okay all right and again we're only speculating okay we're only using our imagination but you can see how this does explain a lot about the way i think about the divine comedy what's going on right and again what's really confusing right now is these two great truths of paradise um virgil already knows and also shows you the consistency the totality of divine comedy right where all three inferno purgatory and paradise all line up perfectly and i"
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      "text": "don't know how you could do that as a human being and this is an age before computers this is an age even before like pen and paper right but he's able to do this in his mind and if you're like well it's all him being deliberate and being very careful well that doesn't really get you anywhere but if you're like okay all he's doing is channeling the divine fire well that explains a lot more okay okay does that make sense guys all right uh let's keep on reading line 40 you saw"
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      "text": "the fruitless longing of those men who would if reason could have been content those whose desire eternally lament i speak of aristotle and of plato and many others here he bent his head and said no more remaining with his sorrow by this time we had reached the mountain's base discovering a wall of rock so sheer that even agile legs are useless there the loneliest most jagged promontory that lies between turbia and larache compared with it could provide stairs wide and easy no who knows where along this mountainside my master halting asked one finds a rise where even he who has no wings can climb wait stop okay all right"
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      "text": "um so he says you saw the footless longing of those men who would if reason could have been content those who desire eternally lamets i speak of aristotle and plato and many others what does"
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      "text": "he mean by this what does he mean by this yes that because they didn't know about the trinity and those special truths of heaven they even though they had great souls and pure souls they were just eternally desiring to understand the monad but hadn't been given the special the two special truths well that the immaculate conception and trinity so even though they probably should have made it they're the ones the most upset that they've had yeah that's close okay but i"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "i would phrase it differently does anyone else want to try yeah you can try again just that"
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      "text": "they still have a distance between them and the world of the forms what if you think that's where"
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      "text": "god was sure we're trying to figure out what causes this distance okay what causes this distance separation between reason and knowledge they didn't think they needed faith it's faith right because explain to me because only with faith do you understand that it's mary redeemed that's not jesus it's only with faith that you understand that god is love okay you can't prove it you can't reason it out plato and aristotle their problem was that they wanted to reason out you can't do that you have to have faith and from this faith comes your imagination which then allows you to access the the truth you understand the logic and again it's amazing because this is what because this is what donning will tell us will reveal to us in paradise you need to you need to live a life of faith hope and love and virgil is already saying this so virgil knows this but he refuses"
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      "text": "to act it out okay he refuses to align uh will with action okay all right let's keep on"
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      "text": "reading while he his eyes upon the ground consulted his mind considering what road to take and i looked up around the wall of rock along the left a band of souls appeared to me to be approaching us but so unhurriedly their movements did not show lift up your eyes i told my master here are those who can advise us how to go if you can find no counsel in yourself at this he looked at them and lest the stress replied let us go there their steps are slow and you my gentle son hold fast to me and i will not let you go and i will not let you go and i will not let you go hope the distance from that company to us i mean when we had gone a thousand paces was still as far as the fine hurlers tossed when they all huddled toward the hard rock wall and once they"
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      "text": "crowded there refused to budge even as men when apprehensive halt oh chosen souls you have ended well virgil began by virtue of that peace which i believe awaits you all please tell us where the slope inclines and can be climbed for he who best discerns the worth of time is most distressed whenever time is lost even as sheep that move first one then two then three out of the fold the others also stand eyes and muzzles lowered timidly and what the first sheep does the others do and if it halts they huddle close behind simple and quiet and not knowing why so then i saw those spirits in the front of that flock flavored favored by good fortune move their looks were modest seemly slow their walk as soon as these souls saw upon my right along the ground a gap in the sun's light where shadows stretched from me to the rock wall they"
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      "text": "stopped and then drew back somewhat and all who came behind them though they they did not know why those ahead had halted also slowed without your asking i shall tell you plainly that you're looking at a human body that's why the sunlight on the ground is broken don't be astonished rush assured that he would not attempt to huddle close behind them and they did not know why so they did not attempt to cross this wall without a force that have incentive as a thwart these were my master's words that worthy band replied come back and move in our direction and gestured with backhanded motions right and one of them began whoever you may be as you move forward turn and see consider if beyond you've ever seen me i turned to look at him attentively he was fair haired and handsome and his aspect was noble but one eyebrow had been cleft by a sword's"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "stroke when i had humbly noted that i had never seen him he said look now showing me a wound high on his chest then as he smiled he told me i'm manfred the grandson of the empress constance thus i pray that when you reach the world again you may go to my lovely daughter mother kings of sicily and aragon tell her the truth lest she's heard something other after my body had been shattered by two fatal blows and tears i then cried out to god my mother women had freed me i consigned myself to him who willingly forgives. My sins were ghastly, but the infinite goodness has arms so wide that it accepts whoever would return, imploring it. As if Cesenza's bastard, who was sent to hunt me down, alive or dead by Clement, had understood this facet of God's mercy, my body's bones would still be there beneath the custody of the great heap of stones, near Benevento, at the bridgehead."
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      "text": "Now rain bathes my bones, the wind has driven them beyond the kingdom, near the Verdi's banks, where he transported them with tapers bent. Despite the church's curse, there's no one so lost that the eternal love cannot return, as long as hope shows something green. But it is true that anyone who dies in contumacy of the Holy Church, though he repented at the end, must wait along the shore for thirty times the span he spent in his presumptuousness, unless that edict is abridged through fitting prayers. Now see, of you by making known to my kind Constance where you saw my soul and why delays decreed for me can make me happy. Those here, through those beyond, advance more quickly."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so they are moving towards Purgatory. They're an empty Purgatory, right? So they're not yet entered the gates of Purgatory, and they're meeting different souls, and one of them is Manfred. Now Manfred is a royal, he is a king, he's a grandson of the Empress Constance, and he's a king of the Empress Constance, and he's a king of the Empress Constance, and he's a king of the Empress Constance, and he's a king of the Empress Constance, and he died in battle. And he was excommunicated by the Church. Why is this a paradox? He was excommunicated by the Church. Why is this a paradox? He's here. Yeah, it's straight, it's like go straight to hell card, right? Yeah. If you're excommunicated, it means that you have been banished from the community of Christians. It doesn't matter if you're baptized, it doesn't matter what you believe, it doesn't matter what you do, you have now been banished from the community of Christianity, and therefore you must now burn in hell."
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      "text": "And what does Manfred say?"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "How can we understand this? Yes. He said, as I was dying, basically in tears, I suddenly was like, God, please forgive me. And then I know my sins were terrible, but God, you know, spread his arms to me to return."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah. So God is all forgiving. Okay. You have a direct connection to God and, if you get executed by the church that's bad but but that just means you spend more time in purgatory okay right so again this is revolutionary for this time in history where the ex communication doesn't really matter that much okay what matters is your faith in god um how is it possible to reduce your time in purgatory do you guys know yes someone who's alive prays for you exactly okay right this goes back to the idea in heaven where um if an infant dies but the parents are very virtuous and pray for the infant the infant is given access to heaven yes i think it also matters"
    },
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      "text": "whether the prayer is like a good prayer or just like an off -handed prayer i think there's like a"
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      "text": "difference between yeah no no commitment right you know if someone's praying for you um eight hours a day and also the number of people also matter as well like if entire community is praying for you and that will reduce your timing imprecatory okay right okay all right so let's keep on going kanto four"
    },
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      "text": "when any of our faculties retains a strong impression of delight or pain the soul will wholly concentrate on that neglecting any other power it has and this refutes the error that maintains that one above the other several souls can flame in us and thus when something seen or hurt secures the soul in stringent grip time moves and yet we do not notice it the power that perceives the course of time is not the power that captures all the mind the former has no force the latter binds and i confirmed this by experience hearing that spirit and my wonderment for though the sun had fully climbed 50 degrees i had not noticed it and when we came to the point at which in unison those souls cried out to us here's what you want okay so at this this answers your question"
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      "text": "of time right you have a question about time what does dante say right so but what does he mean right we had a question about time right so what does donnie say about time yes the sun has climbed 50 degrees yeah and that's physical time but what could could you um yeah what's he saying here um"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "well uh verse 10 the power that perceives the course of time is not the power that captures all the mind the former has no force the latter binds so um it's not"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "your perception is your imagination it's not the perception that matters what matters the perception of time doesn't matter what matters the emotions right right so the power that cap perceives the course of time is that the power that captures all the mind okay the power that perceives the course of time has no force the power that captures all the mind which the emotions that binds okay all right so what matters is the emotional time as opposed to the physical time okay keep on going"
    },
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      "text": "line 13 and i confirmed this by experience hearing that spirit in my wonderment for though the sun had fully climbed 50 degrees i had not noticed it when we came to the point at which in unison those soul cried out to us here's what you want and then verse 19 the farmer when the grape is darkening will often stuff a wider opening with just a little fork full of his thorns then was the gap through which my guide and i which followed after climbed we too alone after the company of souls"
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      "text": "had gone why does he notice the passing of time why does he notice the passing of time yes the changing of the sun's degrees well that would tell him the time but he doesn't even notice that i'm saying why doesn't he notice the sun the top the passing of time and like this is just like like why don't you notice time because you're perceiving change uh"
    },
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      "text": "yes um why would you not notice time not notice time yeah what would you not notice time if"
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      "text": "nothing changes you know what i'm saying like like when do you not notice time yes you're sleeping that you lost yeah when you're happy okay yeah when you're happy and why are you sounding very happy why are you starting happy what he's on his way to beatrice no there's a better reason he hasn't mentioned features yet he's out of hell right okay he was in hell and now he's finally out of hell there's sun there's people who are happy he just he's just really happy right now okay you feel right so all right uh let's go on right all right uh let's go on"
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      "text": "am i going verse 25. first 25. san leo can be climbed one can descend to noley and ascend kakuma and bismontova with feet alone but here i had to fly i mean with rapid wings and opinions of immense desire behind the guide who gave me hope and with my life we made our upward way through rifted rock along each side the edges pressed on us the ground beneath required feet and hands when we had reached the upper rim of that steep bank emerging on the open slope i said my master what do you think went well i really didn't expect me to fall here iטill do that for me i way shall we take and he to me don't squander any steps keep climbing up the mountain after me until we find some expert company the summit was so high my sight fell short the slope was far more steep than the line drawn from"
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      "text": "middle quadrant to the center point i was exhausted when i made this plea oh gentle father turn around and see i will not left alone i will be left alone alone unless you halt my son he said draw yourself up to there while pointing to a somewhat higher terrace which circles all the slope along that side his words incited me my body tried on hands and knees i scrambled after him until the terrace lay beneath my feet there we sat down together facing east in the direction from which we had come what joy to look back at a path we've climbed my eyes were first set on the shorts below and then i raised them toward the sun i was amazed to find it fall upon our left and when the poet saw that i was struck with wonder as i washed the chariot of light passing between the two of us i was amazed"
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      "text": "to find it fall upon our left the north and us he said to me suppose castor and pollux were in conjunction with that mirror there which shakes the light and guides it north and south then you would see the reddish zodiac still closer to the bears as it revolves unless it has abandoned its old track if you would realize how that should be then concentrate imagining this mountain so placed upon this earth that both mount zion and it although in different hemispheres share one horizon therefore you can see putting your mind to it as if you were in the center of the earth as if you were in the center of the earth"
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      "text": "attentively where is mount zion you guys know where's mount zion probably in mount zion come on guys in israel egypt jerusalem right zionist come on man zionist right mount zion so what what he's saying is that purgatory and jerusalem are opposite of each other it doesn't make sense okay so um yeah uh yeah what is your relationship between dante and virgil how would you describe the relationship seriously no yes well still a father -son relationship yes can you explain why"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "well like further up he he said virgil said for uh son uh to dante and dante said father to virgil okay so and they and he dante still trusts virgil that he knows the way up"
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      "text": "so let's imagine you're a father okay you take your son who's like 10 on a hike to a mountain right what's your son doing all the time are we there yet yeah are we there yet okay and what's sonny doing like are we there yet okay and and and the father's like oh like you know just focus on the mountaintop okay so so it's very much a father -son relationship and it's almost like dante has regressed right because he's acting a lot more immaturely than before right before it was one of respect uh one of all at virgil now it's just like are we there yet man this is so exhausting and verse is like come on man move it okay all right let's keep on going"
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      "text": "line 71 1 71 therefore you can see putting your mind to it attentively how that same path which fethan drove so poorly must pass this mountain on the north whereas it skirts mount zion on the southern side i said what's your持 wu's group home to your group that's my name nine people two master surely surely i have never since my intelligence seemed lacking seen as clearly as i now can comprehend that the mid -circle of the heavens motion one of the sciences call it equator which always lies between the sun and winter as you explained lies as far north of here as it lies southward of the site from which the hebrews looking toward the tropics saw it but if it pleased you i should willingly learn just how far it is we still must journey the slope climbs higher than my eyes can follow and he to me the mountains of such sort that"
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      "text": "climbing it is hardest at the start but as we rise the slope grows less unkind therefore when this slope seems to you so gentle then climbing farther up will be as restful as traveling downstream by boat you will be where this pathway ends and there you can expect to put your weariness to rest i say no more and this i"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "know is true okay so again don is just bitching throughout this right he's like are we there yet i'm so exhausted can we just rest and then virtual is like come on we're almost there um why uh and i don't actually know the answer to this question why is virgil uh and donny why are they spending so much time on trying to geolocate where they are right like they're very explicit about where they are like okay we have the we are the opposite end of jerusalem the stars are like this why would why would um bonnie spend so much time trying to geolocate mount purgatory and i don't actually know the answer yes to like be more accurate while he's"
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      "text": "writing the poem because he's gonna like teach all of these to the people uh yes you could know where"
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      "text": "heaven touches the earth i.e the peak of the mountain would be the closest place"
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      "text": "on earth to heaven yeah i understand that but like purgatory is made up right so i'm trying to figure out why he's trying to be so exact and detailed"
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      "text": "about where mount purgatory is yes well you're hiking right so um try to memorize all the signs"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "and where things are so that you don't get lost okay i understand that um yes is it just a metaphor"
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      "text": "for purgatory because purgatory is quite a meticulous place where you have to clean yourselves"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "right right right but i'm trying to figure this out okay i'm trying to figure out why he's spending so much time being so exact and detailed about where he's spending so much time about where mount purgatory is what it looks like what where is in relation to other places what why would he again i don't actually know the answer i'm just asking you this question"
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      "text": "uh yes maybe dante just uh distrust distrust virgil he's saying maybe he's trying to treat"
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      "text": "him or well it's virgil who's doing the talking yes maybe virgil is trying to remember it for later when his task with dante is done he gets shoved back to limbo slash hell and he's trying"
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      "text": "so that's a very optimistic reading of virgil actually yes the way to measure things so because"
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      "text": "it's about progress you can only progress in what you measure so they're looking at where they are"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "like start with and then progress with it yeah okay right good right so um maybe a possibility is like they're trying to give people a sense of time so like their progress can be tracked okay that's one really strong possibility yes and i don't really answer i'm just like what are possibilities here just use your use your imagination anyone else yes well maybe just for the reader so you can"
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    {
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      "text": "imagine it as detailed as possible and why would that why would that be important i find this to be"
    },
    {
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      "text": "a treasure map for imagination right because um back to your point about dante starting ushering in renaissance if you look at renaissance paintings there are lots of perspectives and um it's almost like if you want to imagine to the fullest you need to give details a lot of details yes and this is like a treasure map to hey this is how you do it yes and i guess that's why maybe a cultist and you know later people would find this enlightening because literally this is a map to"
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      "text": "the ultimate treasures yes yes okay like a hiker you probably know the japanese like"
    },
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      "text": "those are holding down the station and then you keep keeping the room this is not a shame non - Cover which is one of the pilgrimage roads by unesco saying that it's a privilege so you go through the mountains to you know purify your soul and all that the other one is the one uh the route of san diego the compostela which is another trip to um to pilgrimage through the mountains and stuff and so maybe in his idea that like this idea of purgatory purging yourself as you hike or as you pray you know because it's prailim et verse so in urdu you should put it into a you know go on a journey it's not physically metaphorically it's a way to purify yourself"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "just like muslims also go to you know the same okay so um i think that carol's point is very interesting so let's all drop some paintings okay let's look at um medieval european art okay and then we're going to contrast it with renaissance art and see if we can spot the difference it's actually pretty blatant but but we'll do it okay medieval art we'll we'll look at some images okay okay so this is medieval art guys okay all right do you guys see that uh just put it put it in your mind now we're gonna do renaissance art and again the difference is pretty stark what's the difference guys yes go ahead yes so space and time really matter here yes yeah from from two dimensional to three dimensional yes right it's pretty obvious right they put a lot of focus on space and time on depth perception right before it was 2d now it's"
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      "text": "3d and anyone else it's a it's a"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "text": "demonstration of imaginative power uh this um to uh convey the force of divine imaginative power you do have to have uh you know very very uh you know deep knowledge about geography but also"
    },
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      "text": "imagination yes so let's do mathematics of renaissance art let's see what what happens if we do that mathematics of renaissance art yeah so they're using a lot of mathematics with renaissance art right um the um maybe the last supper okay this is divine comedy okay well i mean this is yeah yeah yeah okay but like do you guys see this okay there's a there's a lot more mathematics in renaissance art than there is in medieval art in fact there's really no mathematics in medieval art but but if you at when you look at renaissance art does geometry really matters the symmetry really matters that perception really matters okay and this started because of dante dante is really concerned about mathematics he's really trying he's really concerned about trying to create as much detail as possible in his poetry so that it excites the imagination okay and it makes us yes and also"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "so pretty much every renaissance painting is like a historical moment in time and the medieval paintings were just like bishops and like just portraits but this is like really yeah this really ignites the imagination like you you can like imagine yourself sitting at"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "the table or like right yeah and and why would it accept the imagination as opposed to uh medieval"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "art yes because you're grounding it in something more naturalistic and you're able to see yourself a little bit more and you're able to see yourself a little bit more and you're able to see yourself more and i think the reason he does it in purgatory is because you can kind of go on purgatory a little"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:51:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "bit while you're alive in real life exactly you understand okay right so you can actually imagine yourself taking a hike and looking at stars and then that draws you back to the divine comedy and when you read divine comedy you can also pick your you can also as you read this imagine yourself with virgil and dante climbing up mount purportory that's a power of detail and precision again again again guys this is really it's obvious to us now but this is rather it's it's watching it's"
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      "time_label": "3:52:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "literally watching a movie yes well i really feel like purgatory is really similar to just earth in general you know like we have a sun we have you know it's really like earth -like as opposed to"
    },
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      "text": "inferno right and he's trying to make it as earth -like as possible right by by by geolocating it and says like this is actually a real place on on on earth right and so again we're not transitioning from the medieval period to the renaissance period and this is what sparks it because of its huge um humanistic qualities right it's willingness to draw you into the story it's realism so that you feel like mount purgatory is a real place if it's a real place then um it gives you hope right because before you you believed that there was only hell and in heaven and now like no there's a there's a purgatory place and it's a transition into heaven so even if you screwed up as long as you're willing to repent you will go to purgatory and you'll be there for a million years you'll be there thousands thousand years who knows but hey if"
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      "text": "your family really loves you you know it won't be as bad okay so it's getting it's almost incentivizing you to live life to the fullest to live a life of love to show kindness generosity and mercy to others right okay and again this is opposite of the indian right where again you're not supposed to show mercy to your enemies you're not supposed to like fall in love you're just you're just supposed to like obey the gods does that make sense guys all right all right let's see 97 and when his words were done another"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "voice nearby was heard to say perhaps you will have need to sit before you reach that point hearing that voice both of us turned around and to the left we saw a massive boulder which neither he nor i before had noticed we made our way toward it and towards the people who lounged behind that boulder in the shade as meant beset by the light of the sun the sun's so listlessness will rest and one of them who seemed to me exhausted were sitting with his arms around his knees between his knees he kept his head bent down oh my sweet lord i said look carefully at one who shows himself more languid than he would have been where laziness his sister then that shade turned toward us attentively lifting his eyes but just above his thigh and said climb then if you're so vigorous then i knew who he was and the distress that still"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "was quickening my breath somewhat did not prevent my going to him and when i had reached him scarcely lifting up his head he said and have you fathomed how the sun can drive his chariot on your left the slowness of his movements his brief words had stirred my lips a little toward a smile then i began from this time on balakwa i didn't i need not grief for you but tell me why do you sit here do you expect a guide or have you not a guide you've fallen into your old ways and he oh brother what's the use of climbing god's angel he who guards the gate would not let me pass through to meet my punishment outside that gate the skies must circle around as many times as they did when i left since i delayed good size until the end unless before then i am helped by prayer that rises from a"
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      "text": "heart that lives in grace what use are other prayers ignored by heaven and now the poet climbed ahead before me and said it's time see the meridian touched by the sun elsewhere along the ocean night now has set its foot upon"
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      "text": "morocco okay all right so um we we will conclude uh um today um a reminder tomorrow morning we start at nine o 'clock exactly okay try to come at 8 50 we're very special uh guests we're very honored to have him professor david bromwich who is studying professor of english at um yale um his mentor was harold bloom of course i didn't mention that um and he will come and talk to us about mcbeth he's joining us live from new haven um and then we will have a discussion uh about shakespeare and daunting how they're similar how they're different uh and it'll be a very interesting conversation um so um yeah it'll go on for about an hour and then we'll continue reading purgatory and we'll try to do about 10 okay we have like three days more we have three days left and we'll try to do 10 10 10 okay um so please"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-24",
      "date_label": "2026-06-24, day precision",
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      "start": 14196.98,
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      "time_label": "3:56:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "review what we've learned any questions about about today before we we end any questions guys ask one question then we'll end okay yes uh very general question but do you"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
      "source_title": "Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "think uh open and free imagination is compatible with organize organize organizing a society because it seems like once a society reaches a certain amount of people and a level of organization then you need to force people into imagining that your system works that's a great"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-ssmjknuosac",
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      "time_label": "3:57:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "question okay um and quite honestly if dante were alive today he could not possibly understand why we live the way we do right we live in cities of 10 million people beijing is like what 25 million people but no one knows each other and like you're just like you're just like a little cog in the green and like donald would be like what's the point of this existence right what are you guys trying to accomplish with this sort of as existence um back then in italy whatever the issues were at least people knew each other okay and these people had roots at least people knew why they were they were living and um happiness had a purpose right you wanted your community to thrive and now in our world we're just focused all on just material acquisition and as you point out that's a result of mass society okay once your society reaches a certain"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Purgatory Begins By Washing Virgil Off",
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      "text": "point your society has to be organized a certain way um you lose your sense of community you lose your sense of identity you are just a um empty soul um you're basically like you're basically a slave really okay i mean like i hate to say this but like are we not slaves i mean i like just the idea of like sending kids to school to learn to read and write so that they get to get a useless degree so that they can go make uses money right i mean like what exactly is the point all right so um as you point out once society reaches a certain number it could be a million it could be two million who knows okay but you're kind of stuck like this and there's no way out of it because uh with this with this amount of people you need bureaucracy and you need hierarchy and you need inequality"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "in order to make the society function there's really a lot around it but it's an interesting question and it's something that I want to discuss at the end of this class right and the question then is if Dante were to come today first of all how would he feel about us and the answer is he'd be pretty disgusted but also what would Dante recommend that we do okay what are some paths forward given the structure of society today so thanks for the question and we'll come back to it um later on okay"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 0,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "good morning a few announcements before we start class um first of all i would like to make a series of apologies um there are a lot of people watching online so i thank everyone for taking the time to watch these videos online and some of you have been complaining about the sound quality as well as the video quality uh first of all i want to thank carol and her team for making all this possible but i need to remind people that this is an academic facility this is not set up for a youtube live stream so i apologize um if this is not up to par um but yale the yale beijing center was not set up to be a youtube live stream facility it was up to an academic exchange facility okay that's point one um point two is um i made many factual mistakes yesterday i've been making many factual mistakes throughout uh"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 58,
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      "time_label": "0:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "this course so um to be honest with you this is my actually my first time reading divine comedy info okay i've taught the divine company for the past four years but it's always i skip through sections that i think are important so that i can teach it uh because my strategy is to teach to learn so i basically learn what i need in order to teach and that's been very unfair to me so i'm going to go ahead and get started so i'm going to go ahead and get started so i'm going to go ahead and get started so i'm going to go ahead and get started dante um so if i'm making mistakes it's because a lot of this material is new to me and so i see teaching as a process of co -creation of co -discovery okay so thank you for your patience and for your uh understanding and again what we're"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "trying to do is we're trying to understand dante thematically rather than factually i hope that after class you do go and review what we've learned and make sure that you understand what's going on and also to fix a lot of errors um and my third um apology is that i got emotional yesterday and i think a lot of it is that when i teach i have a lot of goals in mind i have a plan in mind and i get very frustrated i like i like feedback i like to be challenged but sometimes when i am challenged too much i get a bit exact i get frustrated okay so i apologize for for that okay so um before we be in class i want to i want to address an issue from last class i no actually first before i begin are there any questions from last class that you have okay all right so"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "i want to address an issue from last class which is the idea of lust okay um and we never really reach a satisfactory resolution to the problem the sin of lust why would lust be an issue and again um we have to assume that donnie knows what he's doing so unless we are able to explain to ourselves clearly and explain to others clearly we have not arrived to the solution okay so um um edward when we were talking about lust yesterday okay you had a very interesting comment can you repeat that comment do you remember your comment about picarda and uh francisca the parallels you may not remember it but oh that was you i'm sorry i'm sorry okay"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "could you can you repeat that um so there seems to be symmetry um yes with regards to the looping i i don't know that's like the ex -programmer i mean he's thinking like like with picarda he she's stuck in the loop right in in the lower levels of heaven and then um where in hell we see that people in lust in the in that hurricane tornado as well as uh um the people that are uh uh gluttonous they're also stuck in an endless cycle right so i just"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "appreciated that symmetry yes okay so the key to understanding um the idea of lust is to appreciate the symmetry in the um divine comedy um you also need to appreciate the totality of the divine comedy in that he's presenting a complete vision okay so we know from paradise we know from paradise that dante's ultimate message is to live a life of faith hope and love he goes on to define these three concepts as faith is the imagination to believe that god does exist that heaven and hell exists and that god loves us okay without these things it's hard to understand the world and arrive at truth uh hope is the idea of arrogance where you have to believe that you do matter and whatever you do impacts the universe that's why people like rachel roof beatrice rebecca are next to god because these are individuals who had no power had no status but they chose"
    },
    {
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      "text": "to live a life of goodness and as a result god rewards them the most okay um love is action right to not just be passive but to be active to believe that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere okay and so in other words what don is really saying is to live a life of love and imagination that is the ultimate message of the divine comedy but now we have to reconcile this message with the theology of the catholic church at this time and how people understand the world at this time now um in this time there are the seven deadly sins and now what's interesting is that dante does put four of the seven deadly sins in inferno right they are lust um gluttony greed and wrath okay so these these four he does put in the inferno but there are three others that he does not actually put in the inferno he will put them"
    },
    {
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      "text": "in purgatory but not inferno okay and they are um envy pride and sloth okay basically laziness all right okay so we need so what dunning does is he replaces these things with other things okay um basically envy pride and sloth are not in inferno you're not punished for these things but you're punished for um fraud violence and treachery okay not only that but he separates he separates the inferno uh with geographic uh dividers okay remember how he they cross the acaron river in order to access um the inferno but then they also have to cross river sticks to access this which is the capital city of inferno okay and but even when we go inside this we'll find that they're actually also major geographic dividers as well so what dunning is suggesting is that the the more you climb into hell the greater the crime okay so we need we need to think about what"
    },
    {
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      "text": "the difference is um amongst these different sins and i mean the most basic difference is lust gluttony greed and wrath there are things you do to yourself okay and violence fraud surgery is are things you do to other people okay that that is the clearest difference um and what this matters is that if you with violence fraud and treachery you are disrupting others capacity to live a good life all right uh so that's point one um point two is traditionally these things the seven deadly devin sins are an expression of the eagle right it's like too much you are you want things too much you are expressing ego too much and that's why you have to live a good life okay so have the seven deadly deadly sins but we already said that in paradise arrogance is key to hope so how do you reconcile this dichotomy right and the answer is that what dante"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "is going to do is show that you have these things lust gluttony greed and wrath because you don't have enough ego does that make sense not enough will all right not enough will and desire all right so if you we read the divine comedy and you look at these four circles lust gluttony greed and wrath it's like they don't have enough ego they don't have enough will they don't have enough hope okay but"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "did you have a question January well that's that's quite powerful to me because um you're you're saying that uh it's a spectrum like ego free will imagination is a spectrum yes and it goes it goes on the Paradise side positive and it and and the lack of it causes other stuff right"
    },
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      "text": "okay okay yeah exactly okay so let me give you an example to illustrate this with will okay with sorry with lust so again the story of lust is Francisca who thought who is married but she falls in love with um her husband's brother and they have this illicit affair the husband finds out and kills both of them and Francisco says is that oh what motivated me is um I was reading these romance novels and I was so enraptured by the plot by the idea of falling in love someone else that I just did it okay and if you know your literature you know that this is the plot line of Madame Bovary right by by um um but yes right that's exactly the plot line okay this you know very bourgeoisie woman she's border she's bored she reads these romance novels and that's why she starts an affair okay so this is this is how"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "he depicts lust but normally we depict lust as maybe uh the most common example is you really like like a woman and you you know pay her a lot of money right for sex prostitution right so this is a very different conception where uh in the normal understanding prostitution it's the expression of your ego it's like see I have a lot of money I can buy you out whereas with the Francisco story it's not enough will and desire it's like you are escaping your life right you went falling in love with an idea as opposed to a person okay and now to further illustrate this further I'm going to give you three examples and then what I want you guys to do is to rank them according to sin okay the first example is um you love a woman and you give her I don't know a million dollars to sleep with her okay basically"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "a million dollars second is um you fall in love with a beautiful actress okay like who knows I like like just anyone okay I don't actually know famous Hollywood actresses Jennifer Lopez maybe okay all right so you like you know the rest of your life writing love letters to Jennifer Lopez okay I I seriously don't don't know that many Hollywood actress actresses and the last thing you do is okay we are living in an age of AI so you buy yourself an AI wife okay a robotic wife right now I want you guys to use imagine in that and tell me like all these three which one is the worst in Dante's opinion which one is the absolute worst yes I think probably this sir"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 797.59,
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      "time_label": "13:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "because uh you don't really need to like that much of that much of like a strong will to process like a sex robot and um and and the second one will be the second like uh um severe will be maybe like uh keep writing love letters to the Hollywood actress actress because it's just like you're not really taking the actions right you're just like you're writing the love letters and uh at least the simple one is just to like uh to hire a prostitute to pay her a million dollars at least you're like"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
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      "start": 835.16,
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      "time_label": "13:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "yeah all right okay yeah okay any other interpretations or opinions yes"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 847.24,
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      "time_label": "14:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "I think the first one of giving the million dollars is the worst sin and then uh the love the love letters is the second sin and the AI wife is the 13th okay so explain your logic I think the the million dollars is the worst sin because you can directly negatively affect someone else because with the other two like writing the love letters they're just receiving your praise with the AI wife it's more damaging yourself whereas the first one you're kind of coercing someone else into doing something bad so it could affect her future capacity to love or"
    },
    {
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      "start": 886.21,
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      "time_label": "14:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "have a connection okay anyone else yes I think the if your friend love is a actress I mean no matter what uh he or she is a celebrity right so it doesn't mean that celebrity cannot be loved but because love is free will right so you can love love her love anyway what this is real true love I suppose but AI wife is different because AI is not real person so uh I don't think the love can be uh produced you know if you just fall in love with something and uh and also fall in love with uh some people and give them dollars I think it's it's all right unless you just you don't only want sex you want to have comfort maybe it's okay just like you give your"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "time_label": "15:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "money to your wife right right um anyone else uh yes so in Dante's time these are my opinions in Dante's time then they would see lust as um natural and natural and natural lust would lead to marriage and reproduction yes and so um if God is love you could not be a woman or a woman is a woman and you not have bring god into the number three the robots um relationship so that would be the worst yes there's a possibility that you fall in love with the prostitute and get married or jennifer lopez falls in love with you and gets married and have babies and that's good god dies right exactly"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 964.54,
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      "time_label": "16:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "yeah yeah okay good number three yes anyone else uh yes um so it's like the triangle theory of love"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "it's either errors which is passion with the body and then there's friendship which is connection with a soul and then commitment or something which is leading to marriage and so in that triangle the prostitute fulfills the body part so it's not as bad it's one part of one aspect of love and the letters for jennifer lopez is the soul connection or friendship aspect but i think the worst is the robot one uh because it's neither all all three yeah good okay wait the obvious"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "answer is number three okay um and how and how we know is we can actually go back and and like use the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the these three actions criteria faith hope and love okay and i mean there are different formulations you provide both of you have really good formulations but the main reason is you've basically given up on yourself right think about it you marry a robotic wife that is despair you don't take yourself seriously anymore right you're so lonely uh you are so uh humiliated that you're like you know what i'll just go i'll just go and marry a robotic wife just keep myself company okay so for dante and for the catholic church as well number three is the worst possible"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "17:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "um sin and it's expression yes and we say that uh sins that impact others are worse so like the robotic robotic wife is only concerning yourself but giving a million would be abandoning yourself and also the other's life because because she has a million then she's gonna go into life of like spending and all so concerns two person which i see as worse right right right you're right okay"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "so it's conditional okay we're assuming that in number one um she's a prostitute and she just agrees right um like she's willing to do this we agree but if she if she's being coerced to do it and then obviously number one is a lot worse right and we'll actually go into that um as we descend into hell okay so but we're assuming like this is not impacting the other person right"
    },
    {
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      "start": 1099.42,
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      "time_label": "18:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "okay but thank you for that yes can we also say it's three because it inspires the least"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "imagination exactly right yeah so again we have to think about the totality of the divine comedy right we want to live a life of faith hope and love and living a life of faith hope and love means taking yourself seriously okay like don't be passive be active and number three um it's basically giving up life okay and that's why lust is a problem because lust is like you're escaping to a fantasy right francisca's escaping to a fantasy if she really loved um the husband's brother they would just elope together right but it's not like that it's like you know she she's what she's doing is she's reading a romance novel and she's trying to project her fantasies on to another person right and she doesn't really care who that person is she has absolutely no feelings for that person and when but when she does that she's not taking herself seriously enough right she doesn't"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 1159.14,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "really have uh faith hope and love okay does that make sense so that helps us explain why lust is a problem and how it fits into the larger dantian cosmology all right any questions before i continue all right my next point is this um for the next two three days we will finish the inferno and the inferno is very different from paradiso okay so think of paradiso as ultimately sorry this is um okay thank you vision okay or the apocalypse so in thank you so so in the in the biblical tradition in the religious tradition uh the populace means revelation okay what god shows you what the vision is so think of paradiso as uh dante's last will and testament he's telling us what his vision for the universe is for the for the future for the future for the future for uh for us is okay the inferno is different the inferno is what"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 1232,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "we call prophecy and you're like wait a minute aren't the same thing okay today yes they are the same thing but back then prophecy is very different from vision okay prophecy is a critique of the present right if you read the bible all these people azaya jeremiah ezekiel they've come down to criticize the the critics to like say you guys are sinning okay if you don't sin god's going to come and punish you okay that's what prophecy is not one of like like fortune telling but one of social critique so that's what the inferno is it's fundamentally a social critique and so what i want to do today is basically read the inferno and understand it ultimately as dante criticizing his society the people around him and also what i want to do is i want us to think about do his criticisms of 40 society apply to us today okay but this is important"
    },
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      "start": 1307.92,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "is that there's a really good reason why the comedy okay at this time in history when dante wrote it's called la cabildina but later on to apply the word divine to it meaning it grapevine it comes through to us is the word of god okay because authentic dies in year 1321 and um in year 1321 when he dies people don't really understand what this is what's going on right because we have in paradise uh peter lambasting the catholic church we also have beatrice in her final words cursing humanity right you guys are hopeless we sent the savior to you and you ignored him and you're all going to burn in hell okay and this is very much part of prophetic tradition right so if you're reading this in the year 1321 you um just don't know what's going on but this happened something happens in year 1357 that convinces that everyone that dante is a"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "prophet do you know what happens to you 1357 in italy can you guys guess i'm pretty sure you know what it is come on this thing kills a lot of people the black death okay and how would they interpret the black death divine retribution divine judgment okay do you understand what happens after black dev is the renaissance right when they fully embrace dante you guys understand the sequence of events 1321 donnie dies and he's cursing you cursing humanity says like the heavens curse you and everyone's like well you know so what 1357 the black death where at least okay at least a third of europe dies can you imagine that a third of europe dies some places it's even half or three quarters of the population okay this is a complete disaster okay the worst possible calamity to befall on humanity at this time and so you can only turn to the ciary in america"
    },
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      "text": "and it means probably that if we suck more than half theui of what what's going on at the top so even if we mix this up with theler makes the deuce at that time what's possible it's still gonna happen eye over eye what the deuce causes complication and we die or is it self and how does that effect the of the death of christ the renaissance seven years off but revolution flew the budgeting colors that is element they just need to do since i don't care about those folks like 엄 Breathe that it john will be unforgettable this as divine retribution or judgment okay all right and dante knows it's coming right because all prophets knows knows it's coming that's why they're so angry right they're like you know if you just read the bible whether it's azaya or uh daniel or just any of the prophets okay they're really really angry because they know"
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      "text": "it's coming they know god will have his vengeance will have his retribution okay but this again creates a paradox for us because if dante knows it's coming and he's very angry but he also says that god is all loving all forgiveness all mercy how can we"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "reconcile this paradox what's the logic of this yes uh that god is trying to show humanity something no he's not trying to show"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "right because a third of humanity will die what what's going on here this is punishment we just said that if you love someone you don't punish someone okay let's use your imagination okay let's just say we're a parent and we have a child for whatever reason okay we don't know why but for every reason this child has become a drug addict and he or she commits a lot of crime in order to feed his or her drug addiction if we truly"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "love our child what would we do yes uh send him to the rehab then into the rehabilitation okay"
    },
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      "text": "right uh any other suggestions the person has kick him out call the police right because he or she has stolen all money criminal crimes in order to feed his or her drug addiction he or she belongs in jail okay retribution is this vengeance or is it love what's the difference love but why is it love you're"
    },
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      "text": "trying to control the amount of harm they have on other people okay any other this uh you're bringing"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "up the the good samaritan issue in the bible where like the person who like helps them is actually enabling them and the person that like ignores them makes them realize on their own their errors"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "and fix themselves okay right okay so the logic is this the logic is like if you truly love someone you want what's best for that person right you want that person to live the best possible life that that's what love is and if the person is like has a drug addiction that person cannot live his or her best life she had to do something about it okay and like enabling it sending sending sending him or her to rehab that doesn't really solve the problem okay what you have to do is basically let him or her hit rock bottom before he or she can lift her himself up okay does that make sense okay so apply this to the black dev why would god unleash a black dev god didn't do this but i'm saying like why would people think"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "it's it's it's god humanity is humanity has a lot of problems and god needs to make us reach rock bottom to realize our problems and fix them ourselves right okay so that is the"
    },
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      "start": 1673.67,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "message of the divine comedy okay and it's the inverse of catholic church the catholic church is don't screw up and you go to heaven um and if you screw up you go to hell okay so it's a high risk situation for dante there is no risk god will forgive you always but because god will always forgive you always that gives you responsibility to live your best life okay to live a life of faith hope and love and if you cannot live that even if you want to live that you cannot live that then god will intervene in a way that permits you to live that okay so another saying this is society has has become so corrupt has become so evil so sinful that an ordinary person like dante cannot live a life of faith hope and love anymore in that situation there will be divine intervention okay there god has to intervene because if"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "god truly loves us god needs to ensure that we have the opportunity to live a life of hope faith and love all right yes"
    },
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      "text": "uh i believe as a professor and and also it makes me recall memory that you know if the you're uh for example if i'm a member with this being you know you know sick bat right and keep waiting for death and at that time you know i'm i think other people just didn't don't believe in money they believe in god because only the god can can you know can give him back or can just you know let him recover so maybe god is trying to test people and just let them to know that uh what if chasing forward money the power is useless in front of the units right just like you know the uh so right now uh you know uh we can call kobe 19 right so maybe yeah okay all right okay so so um to start off our discussion"
    },
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      "text": "of dante as a prophet okay as a social critic uh as someone who is telling people that divine vengeance is coming uh this is a comment from uh youtube it's the same person who who commented about uh peter and the coin okay it's a very good comment so so we're gonna read it just to like understand uh don as a prophet okay uh uh carol could you read please sure it is wild"
    },
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      "text": "how many people in this lecture treat dante like a harmless academic monument and he is a true hero for the people dante oligary was not born into absolute luxury or the elite upper class as a son of a low -level money lender he had to completely hustle his way through his academics using sheer intellectual genius to break into elite philosophical and geometric circles he was also hardened a hardened combat veteran who fought on the front lines as a cavalryman for the florentine army at the bloody battle of kempen paladino in 1289 he was a champion who used his hard -earned political power to protect ordinary citizens from a corrupt predatory establishment in 1300 he was elected as a ruling minister of florence and immediately passed bold laws to strip the corrupt local franciscan inquisitor of his power stopping the church from weaponizing heresy checklists to extort bribes and plunder the financial purses of wealthy families"
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      "text": "dante even sacrificed his own personal life for the law voting to exile his own best friend to keep the peace and prove that justice belongs to the people not political factions the papal establishment struck back with absolute malice pope boniface boniface viii lured dante to rome on a fake diplomatic mission while secretly launching a military coup that tore down dante's home seized all his assets and locked his name into the infamous book of the nail registry sentencing him to be burned alive at the stake forced into a 19 -year exile as a hunted fugitive dante never backed down he proved that the ultimate weapon against a blood -soaked political apparatus is radical uncensored love and spiritual freedom he used his poetry to expose the rulers who financialized grace putting corrupt popes in hell while they were still alive while preaching that the entire universe is actually powered by his decentralized unbannable divine love that no"
    },
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      "text": "empire can ever trap behind a paywall dante was so terrified of his message of human deliberation that in 1329 cardinal bertrand de bouger sent armed men to dig up his dead body and burn his bones to ashes forcing local franciscan monks to hide his skeleton in a wall for centuries dante was a rogue insider who gave up his wealth his status and his safety to shield the divine spark and build an eternal escape hatch for"
    },
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      "text": "humanity okay um so of course there's a bit of exaggeration in it okay but the essence is very much true he is he was a prophet and this is the life of a prophet one of constant alienation persecution and exile all right and there's no other way um he chose to live a life of faith hope and love and when he cannot do that then he knows that society is unjust when society is unjust then god will eventually have to intervene okay and that's why in pyridiso in this place of peace and mercy and love peter and beatrice will go on this tirade against humanity okay it is a promise of divine judgment all right and so we will what what we will do today and tomorrow and we will focus on what's going on in foreign society to make dante uh demand divine vengeance retribution okay not not only is he a prophet telling"
    },
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      "text": "people that he's a prophet but he's also that divine retribution is coming but he's also a messenger of god an angel who is demanding from god the divine retribution and judgment okay all right so uh we're gonna pick up from inferno uh where did we end last time okay so so so let's let's do number 10 okay all right but are there any questions about this before we start reading again the goal for today and tomorrow is figure on in foreign society to make dante so angry at the world okay why does he feel so hopeless"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "all right okay all right so let's let's uh okay canto 10 now by a narrow path that ran between those torments and the ramparts of the city my master moves ahead eye following oh highest virtue you who lead me through these circles of transgression at your will do you speak to me and can those who lie within the sepulchers be seen the lids in fact have all been lifted no guardians washing over them and he to me they'll all be shuttered up when they return here from jahesищ together with the flesh they left above within this region is the cemetery of epicurus and his followers all those who say the soul dies with body and so the question you have asked of me will soon find satisfaction while we're here as well the longing you have hid from me okay all right so so"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "remember where we are okay we've crossed the river oxford nicholas and we're in so the river of oscar sticks and we are now in a city of this which the capital of hell and so we are now meeting the worst offenders these are people who have not who've not only seen them sin against themselves but they've sinned against others especially god and uh the first people we meet are the heretics okay the people who have misled uh people from god and their punishment is to basically lie uh in these tombs and they're burning to to death and virgil says the main heresy is the the epiracus and his fathers appear the epicarians believe that there is no soul there's no heaven and hell so all that means is while you're on earth just have a blast man have a feast eat the best food have sex every day uh wear the best clothes just enjoy"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
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      "text": "yourself and for dante this is just pure heresy okay he hates his idea because if you think about it why he hates his idea is that it completely removes the need for faith hope and love right if there's nothing after this why have faith why have hope why have love okay so for dante he takes great offense at the epicarians and everyone that's burning here are the epicarians okay all right let's keep on going line 19"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "and i good guide the only reason i have hit my heart was that i might speak briefly and you long sins encouraged me in this o tuscan you who pass a life across the fiery city with such seemly words be kind enough to stay your journey here your accent makes it clear that you belong among the natives of the noble city i may have dealt with so vindictively okay so dante and virgil are talking"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "and then someone overhears them this is kava kante who is uh someone that um dawning knew very well okay kava kante and kava kante hears dante's accent says hey you must be you must be from florence let's talk okay all right keep on going line 28 this sound had burst so"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "unexpectedly out of once a poker that trembling i then drew a little closer to my guide but he told me turn around what are you doing that's for anata who has risen there you'll see all of him from the waist up my eyes already were intent on his and up he rose his forehead and his chest as if he had tremendous scorn for hell my guide his hands encouraging and quick thrust me between the pokers toward him saying your words must be appropriate when i draw closer to closer to his poker he glanced at me and as if in disdain he asked of me who were your ancestors because i wanted so to be compliant i had no thing for him from him i told them all at this he lifted up his brows a bit then said they were ferocious enemies of mine and i wanted to protect them from the wrath of my"
    },
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      "text": "parents and my party so that i had to scatter them twice over if they were driven out i answered him they still returned both times from every quarter but yours were never quick to learn that art at this there rose another shade alongside uncovered to my sight down to his chin i think that he had risen on his knees he looked around me just as he longed to see if i had come with someone else but then his expectations bent he said in tears if it is your high intellect that lets you journey here through this blind prison i will not let you go i will not let you where is my son why is he not with you okay so this is very important okay so let me explain"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "what's going on um dante is talking to someone and then someone else overhears and this person is cover context so sorry i i misspoke okay the first shade is not cover content the second shade is cover content and cover content knows it's dante and cover content says um if it is your high intellect that lets you journey here where is my son okay what what is important is that um the son of the shade his name is gaido and gaido and dante are competitors they're both poets they're trying to be the best poet in florence right and what god and what cover content is saying to dante is hey if you are able to make it here with your poetry then where's my son right he's at least equal to you it doesn't make sense all right so so let's see what the"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "dante uh says line 61 i answered my own powers have not brought me he who awaits me there leads me through here perhaps to one your guido did disdain his words the nature of his punishment these had already let me read his name therefore my answer was so fully made then suddenly erect he cried what's that he did disdain he's not still alive the sweet light does not strike against his eyes and when he noticed how i hesitated a moment in my answer he felt a sense of guilt and he said i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry he held back supine and did not show himself again okay so this is a really crucial scene okay"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "so imagine what's going on cover kante asked dante where is my son and dante is like um god disdains him and then cover kante is like then my son is dead and donnie and donnie knows for a fact that his son is not dead okay but donnie does not correct him all right do you guys understand what's going on here's the question why is dante doing this okay let's imagine if you're you right like you meet the father of your of your friend and your father says why isn't your friend and the father says why why isn't my son with you what should your"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
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      "start": 2493.52,
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      "time_label": "41:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "answer be maybe just tell him the truth if i were the friend yeah just something like he's living a"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "41:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "great life back in florence that's why he couldn't be here right instead dante kind of lies and says well um it's your son is kind of dead oh would he do that"
    },
    {
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      "start": 2524.28,
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      "time_label": "42:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "uh yes i mean so that the father knows that the son is not in hell because if he was dead i mean because he is in hell so um if his son were dead then he would know if he would be in hell so"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "42:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "that's a generous explanation but um it's you're still lying you know he's alive back in florence"
    },
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      "start": 2547.23,
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      "time_label": "42:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "why would he do that yes oh he's in hell go with the flow right like i noticed too like as he as we descend you know further we descend he his his responses seem to be more pious more cruel okay"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "all right so let me tell you a story okay this happened um in china where there were two students at uh qinghua university or was it piggy university i can't i can't remember okay but one of the top students in china and their best friends and their their roommates and one the one of the girls receives a graduate offer from princeton university okay and she she's not she's not in a dorm it's her classmate who gets it okay so what does a classmate do they're best friends they're both they've been roommates for the past four years they're both aspiring to go to the every league and yet be the college helm in this edu college and so she wants to go to that and she goes to is my grandma so she goes to bed at this time that's when the envelope comes to the other person what does this other person do with that"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "envelope can you guys guess she throws it away isn't there like email now i i understand i think i'm saying like before in the 90s okay why would that happen jealousy yeah but like but like let's explain this okay let's feel this they've been living together for four years right they are the best university in the world regardless of what happens both will aspire to both will live great lives right even if even if they say in china they're still going to be great people they'll be rich and all that yes i think it's the fact that it's"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "44:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "harder to accept the person you are the closest with who are equal to you in every way at least in your eyes suddenly got so elevated out of you so that's there's also i'll agree that if a crab is trying to climb out of the boat the other crabs will grab him down no okay i understand that okay"
    },
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      "text": "that's that that that's correct yes i understand but i'm saying like what sort of culture what sort of environment would would create that right because in theory right you would want the best for your friend you like like if if you receive the envelope you would open it and you'd be like oh my god my foot my best friend got into princeton let me tell the whole world let's let's organize a big surprise party for her right that's what you should naturally do so so the question i'm asking is like what sort of culture what sort of environment what sort of society would make someone do that yes oh sorry sorry"
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      "text": "that could be meritocracy because if you think you provided the same efforts then if someone has something it's the meritocracy okay it's the meritocracy this is the key yes"
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      "text": "okay and how do we know it's a meritocracy because we live in it okay we know exactly what happens in the meritocracy all these students but did you just add i think that was what i was trying to say"
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      "text": "also you see this a lot in sibling rivalry yes too because the closer you are to another person the more more it impacts you their success their so so you know right so a meritocracy is a high pressure"
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      "text": "winner takes all unforgiving culture right well dante and guido are competing to be the best poet in italy and right now who who's part in the lead no the other guy okay right you understand that's why he tears up that envelope he's like screw this you understand okay so there's a lot of things going on and that's why this is a great story because it shows you how sinful dante is right he's full of fear he's in this kind of a mood he's in a really bad mood and he's like you know anger and hatred but at the same time it gives you a glimpse into the larger Florentine society where only the best are appreciated everyone else is discarded right and it's no different from today because we these back then it was a bit of a meritocracy but today it's also a meritocracy and you guys like living in a meritocracy probably not"
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      "text": "okay I mean if you I don't but what but I mean you could okay but so do you understand this hey what's going on yes"
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      "text": "it's a culture of winners and losers right whenever in a pure meritocracy it will be a hierarchical and obviously by numbers sure number of souls being happy"
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      "text": "you'd have less of it right okay and ideally you would live in a society of community right what people are helping each other but here in Florence at this time it's winner -take -all it's it's yes but"
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      "text": "but meritocracy um gives equal chances to relatively can give equal chances to people who were not born who didn't win the birth lottery and also you could say"
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      "text": "it has high efficiency yes yes that that that's what you what you were taught"
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      "text": "what's yeah but yes I see some quite interesting parallels between uh the meritocracy argument and how we saw in Paradiso the arguments against logic because it's this idea that while we have this system and through logic or pure meritocracy we will come to some ideal solution but we see both with meritocracy and the idea of logic that"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "we don't there's something deeper though yeah I mean like okay I mean like let's think about how schools work nowadays right kids go in and they compete against each other on tests and if you do on tests you're smart if you do on well if you don't do on tests you're stupid and the smart kids are funneled into at least universities where they can beat against more people then they are funneled into life where they compete against more people right are these kids happy probably not okay so then you ask"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "yourself what's the point of this yes so what would be the opposite of meritocracy you know what would be what what other system would you put in place rather than meritocracy okay"
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      "text": "um well what are some other options we have"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "um because um to me intuitively the opposite of meritocracy is like nepotism or favoritism or uh you know like you know birthright and that stuff okay so so yeah you're right okay so one"
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      "text": "possibility is the aristocracy right where you have nobility in charge and they're in charge"
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      "text": "forever why would that be a bad system yes because power is inherited so you have to win the birth of the aristocracy some nobility is passed down to blood and you cannot other people cannot have a"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "chance okay so there's no social mobility yes yeah I mean if the same people are in power then and then the parents always like gift their same values to their children then nothing will ever change so there will be no like mobility social mobility now that like change basically so so"
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      "text": "so are you saying we have social mobility in a meritocracy more than in more than in more than in an aristocracy okay um I suggest going to an elite university and like just doing a study of like how many rich kids there are there okay as opposed to like poor kids yes"
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      "text": "yes isn't half of all elite universities like Legacy yes I I appreciate that yes I I wait yes and are you calling that a meritocracy then it seems like yeah that's a problem right"
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      "text": "like yes yeah I was just gonna say meritocracy that's why um it's just a label right it's whatever we want to call it it's just using the same stick to measure society like money like all these prestige and all that right okay so so so okay we have a"
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      "text": "situation where um basically half the kids at these elite universities um but but not at Yale right no not a year um so at least half the kids there are Legacies um so it's basically an aristocracy or an oligarchy okay how but how are they different from previous nobility yes"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "I feel like in a meritocracy people value their own personal skill more than where they come from and like the connections that they have for example in a meritocracy we value education we value people who have skill and talent and we value like critical thinking and problem solving and all these skills rather than like who your family is and what your birthright is is that really true yes so I think meritocracy"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "time_label": "51:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "is like upgrade from aristocracy which is purely Legacy so like right now in American Elite University if you read Columbia professors um the excellent sheep it talks about the problem of the universities think that they earn their place by hard work but I also learn about educational philosophy and research we know that uh social economic status have a better bigger impact on the the kids IQ than the IQ itself like you know on the kids academic performance than their brain powers and everything else combined um and so therefore meritocracy today it is still in a way affected by aristocracy But if you truly believe in meritocracy, you'll be like, oh, I earned all this because I worked so hard. And then you didn't know that your parents actually also gave you the birth lottery."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
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      "start": 3171.61,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah, so that's the first problem with meritocracy, OK? Yes, I know meritocracy is about fairness. But why is it then that we live in a point in history when there's never been much more inequality and lack of social mobility, OK? This is just acting like it's true. There's just, like, this time in history, the era we're living in now is the most unequal in human history, OK? And a lot of the reason is that people who've been from meritocracy think they deserved it, right? So they are much more likely to increase inequality because they think that it is fair. Whereas before, nobility, at least they were embarrassed about it, right? OK, that's the first problem. Second problem is, I don't think it's actually true that in meritocracy, people care about skills and talent. I think in meritocracy, people care about skills and talent. I think in meritocracy, people care about credentials, right?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "And sometimes credentials and skills are not the same thing, OK? So again, we're just thinking about our context and how to apply it to context, OK? But regardless, one major issue at this time in history in Florence is the competition among people so that they think that they're all enemies. Even friends think they're enemies, OK? And this anecdote illustrates that. And this anecdote illustrates that. And I mean, this, I mean, like, what Donny did, is it pretty bad? It's cruel, right? I mean, it's no different from the classmate ripping up that Princeton offer, right, and just hiding it from her classmate. It's pretty cruel. And that's the idea here, where this competition is leading people to the greatest cruelty, unimaginable cruelty. Like, the father is dead, man. The father is burning in hell, and you still have to punish him. Yeah, it's like killing him twice. Excuse me?"
    },
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      "text": "It's like killing him twice. Yeah, right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "It's like killing him twice. Because, like, your only consolation if you're burning in hell is, well, at least my son is doing well back in Florence. He's still a great poet, right? But because, like, obviously, him asking the question just shows him how proud he is of his son, right? If you, Donny, can get here, well, so can my son, right? So it's this love for the son. And that pisses Donny off. It's like, no, you're not your son. Your son is also burning in hell. Thank you very much. OK? All right? But you see how this one story is just revealing to us a larger social context. OK? All right. Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 73. But that great -hearted one, the other shade at whose request I'd stayed, did not change aspect or turn aside his head or lean or bend, and taking up his words where he'd left off. If they were slow, he said, to learn that art, that is more torment to me than this bed. And yet the lady whose ruler here will not have her face kindled fifty times before you learn how heavy is that art. And so may you return to the sweet world. Tell me, why are those citizens so cruel against my kin and all of their decrees?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "56:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "OK. So now Donny's left Cavalcante because Cavalcante's in despair, right? And now he's talking to Ferranita. And Ferranita is also contemporary of Dante. And Ferranita is an aristocrat. Who? Who? Who led Donny's enemies to conquer Florence. Remember, at this time Florence is in a civil war between the Ghibellines, who are aristocrats, nobility, and the Guelphs. The Guelphs are merchants. They are the middle class. OK. And Donny belongs to the Guelphs. OK. So this is a class warfare. And the Ghibellines are supported by the Holy Roman Emperor. And the Guelphs are supported by the Pope. Eventually the Guelphs themselves will fracture between the Black Guelphs and the White Guelphs. OK. But Ferranita, he is a Ghibelline. OK. He's an aristocrat. OK. All right. Can you keep on reading?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 85. To which I said, the carnage, the great bloodshed that stains the waters of the Arbia Red have led us to such prayers in our temple. He sighed and shook his head, then said, in that I did not act alone, but certainly I did not have joined the others without cause. But where I was alone was there. Where all the rest would have annihilated Florence had I not interceded forcefully."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "OK. So this is a very famous episode from this history, where after the Ghibellines take over Florence, they want to kill all the Guelphs. OK. They want to kill all the families of the Guelphs and destroy all the property of the Guelphs. And Ferranita, he intervenes and says, no, we can't do that because this is Florence. We are first and foremost citizens of Florence. And then we are Ghibellines. Then we are partisans. OK. So he heroically saves Florence and Donna is paying him homage here. OK. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Line 94. Ah, as I hope your seed may yet find peace, I asked, so may you help me to undo the knot that here has snarled my course of thought? It seems, if I hear right, that you can see beforehand that which time is carrying, but you're denied the sight of present things. We see even as men who are farsighted those things, he said, that are remote from us. The highest Lord allots us that much light. But when events draw near or are, our minds are useless. Were we not informed by others, we should know nothing of your human state. So you can understand how our awareness will die completely at the moment when the portal of the future has been shut. Then, as if penitent for my omission, I said, will you now tell that fallen man his son is still among the living ones? And if a while ago I held my tongue"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "before his question, let him know it was because I had in mind the doubt you've answered."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "OK. So here, Dante is so embarrassed. He tells Ferenita, I can't go back to Cavalcante and apologize, right? But could you do it for me, please? OK. All right. So again, it shows you how problematic Dante is at this stage in his life, right? He's full of fear, hatred, and envy. Keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "Line 115. And now my master was recalling me so that, more hurriedly, I asked the spirit to name the others who were there with him. He said, more than a thousand lie with me. The second, Frederick, is but one among them, as is the cardinal. I name no others. With that, he hid himself, and pondering the speech that seemed to me so menacing, I turned my steps to meet the ancient poet. He moved ahead, and as we made our way, he said to me, why are you so dismayed? I satisfied him, answering him fully. And then that sage exhorted me, remember the words that have been spoken here against you. Now pay attention. And he raised his finger. When you shall stand before the gentle splendor of one whose gracious eyes see everything, then you shall learn from her your lifetime's journey. Following that, his steps turned to the left, leaving the wall and moving"
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      "text": "toward the middle along a path that strikes into a valley whose stench, as it rose up, disgusted us."
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      "text": "Okay, so, you know, Virgil sees the anguish in Dante's face. And so Virgil asks, what's wrong? And Dante explains, well, because I lied to cover Conte and told him his son was dead. And Virgil is like, focus on your mission, Dante, okay? You are about to meet Beatrice. Focus on that. All right. All right. Let's go to 11, please."
    },
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      "text": "Conte 11. Along the upper rim of a high bank formed by a ring of massive broken boulders. We came above a crowd more cruelly pent. And here, because of the outrageous stench thrown up in excess by that deep abyss, we drew back till we were behind the lid of a great tomb on which I made out this inscribed, I hold Pope Anastasius enticed to leave the true path by Photinus. It would be better to delay descent so that our senses may grow somewhat used to this foul stench, and then we can ignore it. So said my master, and I answered him, do find some compensation. Lest this time be lost. And he, you see, I've thought of that. My son, within this ring of broken rocks, he then began, there are three smaller circles. Like those that you're leaving, they range down. Those circles are all full of cursed spirits, so that your seeing of them may suffice."
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      "text": "Learn now the how and why of their confinement. A very malice that earns hate in heaven, injustice is the end. And each such end by force or fraud brings harm to other men. However, fraud is man's peculiarity. God finds it more displeasing, and therefore the fraudulent are lower, suffering more."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "text": "Okay, so they're descending down to hell, and they will first enter the circle of violence. And there are three different types of violence, okay? Violence against others, violence against yourself, suicide, and violence against God. Okay? That's the circle of violence. And then they'll go even further down to the circle of fraud. Okay, so Virgil does this. Virgil tells Dante that fraud is worse than violence. Can someone guess why that would be the case? Why would in Dante's framework, fraud is worse than violence? Like, violence is like you kill someone, right? But what's fraud? Fraud is just you lie to someone. Why is that different? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Because fraud impacts the imagination of someone. And you, like, destroy a part of their reality. For, like, to something that's not even true. So when you kill someone, they're dead. But when you, like, lie to someone, you kill their perception of reality. Which is even worse, because they can't experience life as it is. But they, like, have to live up to a lie."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Exactly. That's exactly correct. Yes, okay? So did you want to add to that? Okay, all right. So again, the framework, right? Dante wants us to live a life of faith, hope, and love. But for that to happen, you have to have faith. But if people are lying to you all the time, right, or people are cheating all the time, that makes you question reality itself. That makes you question your own faith. And so that's problematic, okay? Whereas if someone does violence to you, it's like, well, you know, the guy's an asshole or whatever, okay? Okay, let's keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 28. The violent take all of the first circle, but since one uses force against three persons, that circle's built of three divided rings. To God and to oneself and to one's neighbor, I mean to them or what is theirs, one can do violence, as you shall now hear clearly. Violent death and painful wounds may be inflicted on one's neighbor. His possessions may suffer ruin, fire, and extortion. Thus murderers and those who strike in malice, as well as plunderers and robbers, these in separated ranks, the first ring racks. A man can set violent hands against himself or his belongings, so within the second ring repents. Though uselessly, whoever would deny himself your world, gambling away, wasting his patrimony, and weeping where he should instead be happy. One can be violent against the godhead, one's heart denying and blaspheming him, and scorning nature and the good in her. So with sign, the smallest ring has sealed both Sodom and Cahors and all those who speak in passionate contempt of God."
    },
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      "text": "Now fraud, that eats away at every conscience, is practiced by a man against another who trusts in him, or one who has no trust. This latter way seems only to cut off the bond of love that nature forges, thus nestled within the second circle."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so again, here explains it, right? The problem with fraud is it destroys people's capacity to trust. Without trust, there can be no love. Okay, that's why it's worse than violence. Okay, keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 58. Hypocrisy and flattery, sorcerers and falsifiers, simony and theft, and barators and panders, and like trash. And in the former way of fraud, not only the love that nature forges is forgotten, but added love that builds a special trust. Thus in the tightest circle, where there is the universal center, seat of dis, all traitors are consumed eternally. Master, your reasoning is clear indeed, I said. It has made plain for me the nature of this pit and the population in it. But tell me, those the dense marsh holds, or those driven before the wind, or those on whom rain falls, or those who clash with such harsh tongues, why are they not all punished in the city of flaming red if God is angry with them? And if he's not, why then are they tormented?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so the last three major circles are violence, fraud, and treachery. Why is treachery the worst possible sin? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Because society -wide, treachery will have knock -on effects because if you're a treacherous to someone else, then they're more likely to do it to someone else and destroy society."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Exactly. That's the idea, right? Where love is a virtuous circle, but treachery is a vicious circle. If you're betrayed by someone else, your first instinct is you'll betray another person, right? It's a chain of events. That's why treachery is the worst possible, because it is altering the very fabric of reality itself. Okay? Fraud distorts your perception of reality. It makes you misperceive reality, but treachery makes you want to shape reality against God. And that's why it's the worst possible sin. Okay? Does that make sense? All right. Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Line 76. And then to me, why does your reason wander so far from its accustomed course, he said, or of what other things are you now thinking? Have you forgotten then the words of God? The words with which your ethics treats of those three dispositions that strikes at heaven's will, incontinence and malice, and mad bestiality? And how the fault that is the least condemned and least offends God is incontinence. If you consider carefully this judgment and call to mind the souls of upper hell who bear their penalties outside the city, you'll see why they have been set off from these unrighteous ones and why when heaven's vengeance hammers at them, it carries lesser anger."
    },
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      "text": "Okay. So, Donna is just asking, like, why is hell partitioned in this way? And Virgil says, well, because of incontinence, malice, and mad bestiality. Okay. Incontinence is basically, you're not taking yourself seriously. You lack will. Right? That's why lust and wrath and greed and gluttony are outside of the capital city. Okay. They're not that serious. You're just doing harm to yourself. Whereas, if you go into this and you see heresy and fraud it's malice to other people. Okay. That's why they have to be punished separately. Okay. Let's keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "91. O son that heals all sight that is perplexed. When I ask you, your answer is so content that doubting pleases me as much as knowing. Go back a little to that point, I said, where you told me that usury offends divine goodness. Unravel now that not. Philosophy for one who understands points out, and not just in one place, he said, how nature follows. As she takes her course, the divine intellect and divine art, if you read your, and if you read your physics carefully, not many pages from the start, you'll see that when it can, your art will follow nature. Just as a pupil imitates his master so that your art is almost God's grandchild. From these two art and nature it is fitting if you recall how Genesis begins for men to make their way to gain their living and since the user prefers another pathway, he scorns both nature and herself and art, her follower."
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      "text": "His hope is elsewhere. But follow me, for it is time to move. The fish is glitter now on the horizon, all the weight is spread out over chorus. Only beyond can one climb down the cliff."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Why are money lenders punished? Why are usurers punished? Why are bankers punished? And Dante comes from a banking family, by the way, right? His father was a money lender. Why are,"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "what's the problem with usurers? Yes. Maybe because fraud, because, the banker always keep telling lies. No, no. It's not fraud. It's something else. What is it?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I think in the Bible, it was a sin to lend money and everything because it doesn't produce any actual good. It's like using money to make money. So you don't actually pay or work hard, you know, to earn your money."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Right. Exactly. Okay. So do you understand this idea, right? Faith, hope, and love is that you are part of the creation process. You are a co -creator of God. But with money lending, you're charging interest. So you are basically exploiting other people's capacity to co -create with God. You're not doing anything. You're just charging interest. Does that make sense? That, did, yes? So I,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "I, my initial guess was that it was related to like, the Jewish ability to lend money where the Christian had a prohibition against it. But I, you just said that Dante's family were money lenders. So can you reconcile the difference that Dante is now committing his father to hell, essentially?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "time_label": "1:11:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Um, yeah. So this is like really interesting. Okay. But if you contrast, uh, if you just look at everyone from Donnie's life, okay, the vast majority of them are actually in hell. Okay. Some of them purgatory. This is exactly one, his great grandfather who is in heaven. And that's a great thing about Dante, right? He's like, don't think about family. Don't think about friends. Think about God's justice. Think about what God's will is. He's like, think about things objectively. If you can go beyond faction, if you can go, can go beyond family, then God's reasoning will make sense to you. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "time_label": "1:11:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "I think that's what Jesus also preached him. Exactly. He told all his disciples that they should all leave their families behind and start a new life where they are not bound to their. Yeah."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=4327s",
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      "start": 4327.38,
      "end": 4354.02,
      "time_label": "1:12:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Right. And like, if you think about it, the greatest act of faith, hope, and love at this time in history is to leave your family behind. Right? Because like at this time, the only thing you can depend on is your family. Right? So, so, so what both Jesus and Donna are saying is live a life of justice and God will support you. Okay. And that's a life of faith, love, and hope. Okay. All right. All right. Let's, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "time_label": "1:12:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Counter 12, the place that we had reached for our descent along the bank was Alpine. What reclined upon that bank would too repel all eyes. Just like the toppled mass of rock that struck because of earthquake or eroded props, the adige on its flank, this side of Trent, where from the mountain top from which it thrusts down to the plain, the rock is shattered so that it permits a path for those above. Such was the passage down to that ravine and the edge of above the cracked abyss. There lay outstretched the infamy of Crete, conceived within the counterfeited cow, and catching sight of us, he bit himself like one whom fury devastates within. Turning to him, my sage cried out, perhaps you think this is the Duke of Athens here, who in the world above brought you, oh, your death. Be off, you beast. This man who comes has not been tutored by your sister."
    },
    {
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      "start": 4419.55,
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      "time_label": "1:13:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "All he wants is coming here is to observe your torment."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "time_label": "1:13:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "So this is the, the monitor. And of course the person who kills the monitor is Theseus, who becomes the first King of Athens. Okay. Um, that, that's just a mythological reference. Uh, that's just a matter for the story. Keep, keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 4435.72,
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      "time_label": "1:13:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 22. Just as the bull that breaks loose from its halter the moment it receives the fatal stroke, and cannot run but plunges back and forth, so did I see the minotaur respond, and my alert guide cried, run toward the pass, it's better to descend while he's berserk. And so we made our way across that heap of stones which often moved beneath my feet, because my weight was somewhat strange for them. While climbing down, I thought, he said, you wonder perhaps about that fallen mass washed over by the inhuman rage I have just quenched. Now I would have you know the other time that as I descended into lower hell, this mass of boulders had not yet collapsed. But if I reason rightly, it was just before the coming of the One, who took from this the highest circle of splendid spoils, that on all sides the steep and filthy valley had trembled so. I"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0134",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=4483s",
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      "start": 4483.79,
      "end": 4537.09,
      "time_label": "1:14:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "thought the universe felt love, by which as some believe the world has often been converted into chaos. And at that moment here as well as elsewhere, these ancient boulders toppled in this way. But fix your eyes below upon the valley, for now we're near the stream of blood, where those who injure others violently boil. O blind cupidity and insane anger, which goad us on so much in our short life, and steep us in such grief eternally. I saw a broad ditch bent into an arc, so that it could embrace all of that plain, precisely as my guide had said before. Between it and the base of the embankment raised files of centaurs, who were armed with arrows, as in that world above they used to hunt. Unseen, seeing us descend, they all reined in, and after they had chosen boughs and shafts, three of their number moved out from their ranks. And still far off, one cried, What punishment do you approach as you descend the slope, but speak from here?"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:15:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "If not, I draw my bow. My master told him, We shall make reply only to Chiron. When we reach his side, your hasty will has never served you well. Then he nudged me and said, That one is Nessus, who died because of lovely Deonira, and of himself wrought vengeance for himself. In the middle, gazing at his chest, is mighty Chiron, tutor of Achilles. The third is Pholas, he who was so frenzied. And many thousands wheeled around the moat, their arrows aimed at any soul that thrusts above the blood more than its guilt allots. By now we had drawn near those agile beasts. Chiron drew out an arrow. With a notch, he parted his beard back upon his jaws. When he'd uncovered his enormous mouth, he said to his companions, Have you noticed how he who walks behind moves what he touches?"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:16:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Dead souls are not accustomed to do that. And my good guide, now near the centaur's chest, the place where his two natures met, replied, He's indeed alive, and so alone it falls to me to show him the dark valley. Necessity has brought him here, not pleasure. For she who gave me this new task was one who had just come from singing hallelujah. He's no robber, I'm not a thief. But by the power that permits me, it permits my steps to journey on so wild a path. Give us one of your band to serve as our companion, and let him show us where to ford the ditch. And let him bear this man upon his back, for he's no spirit who can fly through air. Then Chiron wheeled about and right and said to Nessus, Then return and be their guide. If other troops disturb you, fend them off. Now with our faithful escort,"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4635.73,
      "end": 4668.13,
      "time_label": "1:17:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "we advanced along the blood -red boiling ditch's banks, beside the piercing cries of those who boiled. I saw some who were sunk up to their brows, and that huge centaur said, These are the tyrants who plunged their hands in blood and thundering. Here they lament their ruthless crimes. Here are both Alexander and the fierce Dionysus, who brought such years of grief to Sicily. That brow with hair so black is Asselino. That other there, the blond one, is Obispo of Este. He who is indeed undone, who is in the world above by his fierce son."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:17:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, alright. So they are in the first, um, place of violence. And these, these are people who commit violence against others. And for their, and so for their sin, what's happening is that they're, they're, they are drowning in a boiling, uh, lake. Okay? And if they ever try to get out of it, centaurs come and shoot arrows at them. Okay? That's, that's what they've done to other people. Okay? Now, inside this, uh, boiling lake is Alexander the Great. What's problematic about this? Why, why, why would this be paradoxical? What's the paradox here? When you think of Alexander the Great, who else do you think of?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4714.35,
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      "time_label": "1:18:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Genghis Khan."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:18:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Genghis Khan. Who else?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Napoleon."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:18:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Napoleon. Who else? Hitler. Hitler. Okay, guys, guys, this is year 1300, okay? So let's not go too far. They don't even know who Genghis Khan is at, at this time, okay? But I'm saying like in year 1300, if you think of Alexander the Great, who do you think of? Caesar. Julius Caesar, right? Where's Julius Caesar? He's in limbo. I don't understand what's going on here. Why is Alexander the Great in the circle of violence, but Julius Caesar is in limbo? They did the same thing, right? They're both great conquerors. They killed a lot of people for their own personal glory. Why would Alexander the Great be in here, the circle of violence, and Julius Caesar is like in limbo? Why would that happen?"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:19:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Yes? I mean, my guess is, like, if Dante has Virgil as this guy, it, Virgil cannot, like, see Caesar in heaven, because Virgil was appointed by Augustus, the adopted son of Julius Caesar, to ride the Inuit, right? So, like, if he, like, sees Julius Caesar in, in the, like, one of the worst circles, then that'd be, like, pretty problematic."
    },
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      "text": "Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Right? Because if Virgil is the great poet, and we will learn in paradise that the Roman Empire is what gives rise to a Catholic church, and is part of God's will, yeah, then it makes sense to put Julius Caesar in limbo. But this raises another question. Where's Augustus Caesar? Okay. We'll, we'll, we'll ask ChachiBT. Let's, let's ask, let's ask ChachiBT. All right. Just, just, just, just, just, just, just Google this. Like, where is Augustus Caesar in the Divine Comedy? Oh, okay. Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar. I would think Augustus Caesar, because Augustus Caesar is the one who, who, who created the Roman Empire, right? Which then becomes a Catholic church. So where should he be? At least purgatory, at least limbo, possibly even, even paradise, right? But let's, let's figure this out, okay? Again, logically speaking, we just extend the, extend your logic, right? He should be somewhere nice, whether it's limbo, or purgatory, or even paradise."
    },
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      "text": "Where, where, but where is Augustus Caesar located in the Divine Comedy? Does he appear? Augustus Caesar is one of the most important historical figures, right? The greatest emperor of Rome, the man who created the Roman Empire. Where is he? Where is he?"
    },
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      "text": "I think he's in limbo."
    },
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      "text": "No, no, no, no, no. I'm asking you where in the Divine Comedy is. If we're looking for Divine Comedy, where can we find Augustus Caesar?"
    },
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      "text": "Uh, in, uh, uh, Canto 1, I think."
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      "text": "Does, um, no, I'm saying physically. Like, where, where is he situated? Where, where does it say purgatory? Where, we see Julius Caesar in limbo. We know he's there. We see Socrates in limbo. We know he's there. We see Alexander the Great being burned alive in the circle of violence. We know he is there, but where is Augustus Caesar physically in Divine Comedy? He's nowhere, guys. He does not exist physically in the Divine Comedy, but he does, he is referenced in the Divine Comedy by who? Virgil is what keeps the memory of Augustus Caesar alive, but Augustus Caesar has disappeared, right? So this is a huge problem. We know Alexander the Great because, uh, it's written here. He is burned in the circle of violence. We know Julius Caesar is in limbo. We don't know where Augustus Caesar is. And the only time Augustus Caesar is mentioned, it's because Virgil speaks him out, right? It's only Virgil that's keeping, keeping alive the memory of Augustus Caesar."
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      "text": "This is very confusing, right? Okay. So again, it's meant, so the subversive comedy, first and foremost, it's meant to be subversive. It's meant to undermine our traditional understanding of things. Okay. So do you think, how do you think Donny feels about Augustus Caesar? Well, just, can, can you explain?"
    },
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      "text": "Conflicted. The only reason I can think of that he's not there, other than when Virgil mentions him, is Dante cannot decide where to place him."
    },
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      "text": "Yes. I mean, during Augustus, Jesus was killed. Yes."
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      "text": "No, it was not Augustus, it was Tiberius. Oh, was it not Tiberius?"
    },
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      "text": "Yeah, it was Tiberius. Oh, okay, Tiberius."
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      "text": "Yeah, but, but it was during Augustus that Caesar, that Jesus was born, right? And what the Catholic church teaches you is that without the, without Augustus, um, didn't, Jesus could not have been born and the way it could have been paid for the, for Christianity to arise. Okay. So Jesus was killed during Tiberius. Jesus was killed during Tiberius and, um, Jesus was born during Augustus. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "Yes. I think like Dante naturally don't like, uh, Augustus cause it's, uh, cause Augustus is the one who ordered Virgil to write the Aeneid, right? And it's also Augustus the one who promotes piety, which is what Dante like disagree with. Right."
    },
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      "text": "So, so the greatest, um, act of faith, love, and hope is poetry, right? Virgil is a divine prop, prophet, divine poet. That's how he's able to do this because God willed it. So Augustus Caesar, what he did was he took this gift of poetry, which is divine. He corrupted it to serve the ends of empire. And that's why Augustus is not mentioned, or sorry, he's not, he's mentioned, but he's not, he's not given a place in divine comedy because what Dante has done is he has, he has, he has basically cast him to a place worse than hell. Which is annihilation. Okay. He is beyond the universe. God has forgotten him. God has cast him away from this universe. There can be absolutely no redemption for him. Okay. God wants to forget about him because his crime was so great. It is the greatest crime in the world to try to corrupt the message of God, to serve your own political ends."
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      "text": "Does that make sense guys? Because like, again, you have to explain to me where Augustus is. He's not in divine comedy. And he is one of the most important historical figures ever in history. Yes."
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      "text": "But isn't Virgil then like a, I mean, he's part of this, right? Because he wrote it down. Like he could refuse to write down this poetry that goes against God. So, I mean, right. And that's why Virgil is in hell, right?"
    },
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      "text": "But he's only in limbo. Um, right. But he, he's still, he's still in, in, in hell. Right. Okay. And, and also like, remember what Don is trying to do is he's trying to awaken the reader. You understand? Because at this time in history, everyone is reading, uh, the Inead. Everyone loves the Inead because, you know, you're sort of forced to love the Inead. And so he needs to take people away from the Inead. It has to be a process of slow discovery. Right. Okay. An epiphany where Virgil is probably the villain here. Okay. And, and as we go on, we'll, we'll recognize this, but not at this stage. Okay. Does that make sense? It's a journey. Okay. It's not only journey from sin into virtue, but it's also our journey from ignorant, from the darkness into the light. Okay. All right. Does it make sense guys? All right. Let, let, let's, let's keep on going."
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      "text": "Line 115. A little farther on, the centaur stopped above a group that seemed to rise above them. And he saw the boiling blood as far up as their throats. He pointed out one shade alone apart and said, within God's bosom, he impaled the heart that still drips blood upon the Thames. Then I got caught sight of some who kept their heads and even their full chest above the tide. Among them, many whom I recognized. And so the blood brew always sat shallower until it only scorched the feet. And he, here we found a place where we could forge a ditch, poured a ditch, the ditch. Just as you see that on this side, the broke continually thins, the scourge continually thins, and the centaur said, so I should have you know the rivulet. Along the other side will slowly deepen its bed until it reaches once again the depth where tyranny must make lament. And"
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0164",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5347s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0164",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0164",
      "start": 5347.05,
      "end": 5365.99,
      "time_label": "1:29:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "there divine justice torments Attila, he who was such a scourge upon the earth, and Pyrrhus sextus to eternity. It melts the tears that boiling broken locks from Rainier of Cornetto, Rainier of Pozzo, those two who waged such war upon the high roads. Then he turned around and crossed the fort again."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 5366.29,
      "end": 5367.51,
      "time_label": "1:29:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. All right."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5381s",
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      "start": 5381.26,
      "end": 5440.45,
      "time_label": "1:29:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Conto 13. Nessus had not yet reached the other bank when we began to make our way across a wood on which no path had left its mark. No green leaves in that forest, only black. No branches straight and smooth, but not at gnarled. No fruits were there, but brewers bearing poison. Even those savage beasts that roam between Cecina and Cornetto, beasts that hate tilled lands, do not have faults so harsh and dense. This is the nesting place of the foul harpies who chase the Trojans from the Strupefates with sad foretelling of their future trials. Their wings are wide, their necks and faces human, their feet are taloned, their great bellies feathered. They utter their laments on the strange trees. And my kind master then instructed me, before you enter farther, know that now you're within the second ring and shall be here until you reach the horrid sand. Therefore look carefully. You'll see such things as would deprive my speech of all belief."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0167",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5441s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0167",
      "start": 5441.08,
      "end": 5485.2,
      "time_label": "1:30:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "From every side I heard the sound of cries, but I could not see any source for them, so that in my bewilderment I stopped. I think that he was thinking that I thought so many voices moaned among those trunks from people who had been concealed from us. Therefore my master said, if you would tear a little twig from many of these plants, the thoughts you have will also be cut off. Then I stretched out my hand a little way, and from a great thorn bush snapped off a branch at which its trunk cried out, why do you tear me? And then, when it had grown more dark with blood, it asked again, why do you break me off? Are you without all sentiment of pity? We once were men and now are arid stumps. Your hand might well have shown us greater mercy, had we been nothing more than souls of serpents."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5486s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0168",
      "start": 5486.58,
      "end": 5532.16,
      "time_label": "1:31:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "As from a sapling log that catches fire along one of its ends, while at the other it drips and hisses with escaping vapor, so from that broken stump issued together both words and blood, at which I let the branch fall, and I stood like one who's afraid. My sage said, winded soul, if earlier he had been able to believe what he had only glimpsed within my poetry, then he would not have set his hand against you. But its incredibility made me urge him to do a deed that grieves me deeply. But tell me who you were, so that he may, to make amends, refresh your fame within the world above, where he can still return. To which the trunk, your sweet speech draws me so that I cannot be still and may not oppress you if I linger now and talk. I am the one who guarded both the keys"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0169",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5532s",
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      "start": 5532.16,
      "end": 5584.71,
      "time_label": "1:32:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "of Frederick's heart and turned them, locking and unlocking them with such dexterity that none but I could share his confidence. And I was faithful to my splendid office, so faithful that I lost both sleep and strength. The whore who never turned her harlot's eyes away from Caesar's dwelling, she who is the death of all and vice of every court, inflamed the minds of everyone against me, and those inflamed, then so inflamed, Augustine, that my delight, honors turned to sadness. My mind, because of its disdainful temper, believing it could flee disdain through death, made me unjust against my own just self. I swear to you, by the peculiar roots of this thorn bush, I never broke my faith with him who was so worthy with my lord. If one of you returns into the world, then let him help my memory, which still lies prone beneath the battering of envy."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0170",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5585s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0170",
      "start": 5585.03,
      "end": 5643.15,
      "time_label": "1:33:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so now we are in a forest, and these are people who have killed themselves. They commit suicide. They've committed no other sin but suicide, okay? And what's happened is they've been transformed into trees. So they don't take their bodies seriously, so now their bodies are now just trees. And what happens is that the harpies come and eat the berries that they grow, okay? They feel this eternal torment. And then Donny talks to one of these trees, and this person is a person that Donny knows as well, and he's a historical character, and he was a counselor to a king who was accused of treason, he was virtuous, he was talented, but once he was accused of treason, he was innocent of treason, but he killed himself in despair, okay? Why would this be a problem? Why would this be a sin? Why is suicide a sin? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0171",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5644s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0171",
      "start": 5644.62,
      "end": 5660.16,
      "time_label": "1:34:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "So firstly, you're abandoning all of faith, hope, and love. And secondly, similarly to treachery, I think society -wide, it damages other people and could therefore affect other people's potential to love and connect in the future."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 5660.68,
      "end": 5695.74,
      "time_label": "1:34:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Exactly. That's exactly correct. Yes, first of all, you are supposed to live a life of faith, hope, and love, and this is the opposite, right? Where you just don't believe in God anymore. It's basically rejecting God and says, you know, like, this is so hopeless, even God can't save me, okay? The other thing is, like, you become a bad role model to other people as well. You show that you, who is a very virtuous, talented person, you of all people should have faith, hope, and love, and by abandoning yourself, you abandon God and you abandon society as well, okay? All right, so thank you. Excellent. All right, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0173",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5699s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0173",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0173",
      "start": 5699.07,
      "end": 5745.59,
      "time_label": "1:34:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "My mind, because of its disdainful temper, believing it could flee disdain through death, made me unjust against my own just self. I swear to you, by the peculiar roots of this thorn bush, I never broke my faith with him who was so worthy with my Lord. If one of you returns into the world, then let him help my memory, which still lies prone beneath the battering of envy. The poet waited briefly, then he said to me, since he's silent, do not lose this chance, but speak and ask what you would know. And I, do you continue, ask of him whatever you believe I should request? I cannot, so much pity takes my heart. Then he began again, in prison spirit, so may this man do freely what you ask. May it please you to tell us something more of how the soul is bound into these knots, and tell us if you can, if anyone can ever find his freedom from these limbs."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0174",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5746s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0174",
      "start": 5746.05,
      "end": 5791.37,
      "time_label": "1:35:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "At this, the trunk breathed violence. Then that wind became this voice. Ye shall be answered promptly when the savage spirit quits the body from which it has torn itself. Then Minos sends it to the seventh maw. It falls into the wood, and there's no place to which it is allotted. But wherever fortune has swung, that soul that is the space where, even as a grain of spelt, it sprouts. It rises as a sapling, a wild plant, and then the harpies feeding on its leaves cause pain, and for that pain provide a vent. Like other souls, we shall seek out the flesh that we have left, but none of us shall wear it. It is not right for any man to have what he himself has cast aside. We'll drag our bodies here. They'll hang in this sad wood, each on the stump of its vindictive shade. And"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 5791.37,
      "end": 5838.71,
      "time_label": "1:36:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "we were still intent upon the trunk, believing it had wanted to say more when we were overtaken by a roar. Just as the hunter is aware of chase and bore, as they draw near his post, he hears the beast, and then the branches as they crack. And there upon the left were two who, scratched and naked, fled so violently that they tore away each forest bough they passed. The one in front, now come, death, quickly come, the other shade, who thought himself as though was shouting after him. Lano, your legs were not so nimble at the joust of Toppo. And then, perhaps because he'd lost his breath, he fell into one tangle with the bush. Behind these two, black bitches filled the wood, and they were just as eager and as swift as grey hounds that have been let off their leash. They set their teeth in him where he had crouched, and piece by piece those dogs dismembered him and carried off his miserable limbs."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "collection": "episodes",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=5839s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0176",
      "start": 5839.43,
      "end": 5887.32,
      "time_label": "1:37:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Then he who was my escort took my hand. He led me to the lacerated thorn that wept in vain where it was bleeding, broken. Oh, Jacopo, it said, the Santo Andrea, what have you gained by using me as screen? Am I to blame for your indecent life? When my good master stood beside that bush, he said, who are you who through many wounds must breathe with blood your melancholy words? And he to us, of spirits who have come to witness the outrageous laceration that leaves so many of my branches torn? Collect them at the foot of this sad thorn. My home was in the city whose first patron gave way to John the Baptist. For this reason, he'll always use his art to make it sorrow. And if along the crossing of the Arno some effigy of Mars had not remained, the citizens who"
    },
    {
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0177",
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      "start": 5887.32,
      "end": 5895.8,
      "time_label": "1:38:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "afterward rebuilt their city on the ashes that Tila had left to them would have travailed in vain. I made of my own house my gallows place."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 5896.74,
      "end": 5914.34,
      "time_label": "1:38:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, let's move on to counter 14. I'm sorry if I'm going too fast, okay? But again, we're trying to finish the line of comedy and we're trying to develop the major themes of it, okay? So the next few cantos are extremely important. And here again, we're trying to figure out what is wrong with Florence, okay?"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0179",
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      "start": 5917.42,
      "end": 5966.14,
      "time_label": "1:38:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Canto 14. Loaf of our native city overcame me. I gathered up the scattered boughs and gave them back to him whose voice was spent already. From there we reached the boundary that devised and from the third ring and the site of a dread work that justice had devised. To make these strange things clear, I must explain that we had come upon an open plain that banished all green things from its bed. The wood of sorrow is a garland around it just as that wood is ringed by a sad channel. Here at the very edge we stayed our step. The ground was made of sand, dry and compact, a sand not different in kind from that on which the feet of Cato had once tramped. O vengeance of the Lord, how you should be dreaded by everyone who now can read whatever was made manifest to me. I saw so many flocks of naked souls all weeping miserably and it seemed that they were ruled by different decrees."
    },
    {
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      "start": 5966.78,
      "end": 6015.23,
      "time_label": "1:39:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Some lay upon the ground flat on their backs, some huddled in a crouch and there they sat and others moved about incessantly. The largest group was those who walked about, the smallest those who pined in punishment but these had looser tongues to tell their torment. Above that plain of sand, distended flakes of fire showered down, their fall was slow, as snow descends on alps when no wind blows. Just like the flames that Alexander saw in India's hot zones were when fires fell intact into the ground. On his battalions for which wisely he had the soldiers tramped the soil to see that every fire was bent before new flames were added to the old. So did the never -ending heat descend. With this the sand was kindled just as tinder on meeting flint will flame, doubling the pain. The dance of wretched hands was never done."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
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      "start": 6015.35,
      "end": 6067.49,
      "time_label": "1:40:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Now here, now there they tried to beat aside the fresh flames as they fell. And they began to speak. My master, you who can defeat all things except for those tenacious demons who tried to block us at the entryway. Who's that giant there who does not seem to heed singeing? He who lies in scorns and scowls, he whom the rains can't seem to soften. And he himself, on noticing that I was querying my guide about him, cried, that which I was in life I am in death. Through Hove, where out the smith from whom he took in wrath the keen -edged thunderbolt with which on my last day I was to be transfixed. And if he tire the others one by one in Mongibello at the sooty forge while bellowing, O help, good Vulcan, help, just as he did when there was war at Phlegra, and cast his shafts at me with all his force, not even then would he have happy vengeance."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 6069.45,
      "end": 6117.51,
      "time_label": "1:41:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Then did my guide speak with such vehemence that I had never heard him use before. O Copenius, for your arrogance that is not quenched, you're punished all the more. No torture other than your own master. Madness could offer pain enough to match your wrath. But then with gentler face he turned to me and said, that man was one of seven kings besieging Thebes. He held and still, it seems holds, God in great disdain, despising him. But as I told him now, his malediction stood well as ornaments upon his chest. And now follow me and take care. Do not set your feet upon the sand that's burning hot, but always keep them back close to the forest. In silence we had reached a place where flowed a slender water course out of the wood, a stream whose redness makes me shudder still, as from bullet came"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "text": "pours a brook whose waters then are shared by prostitutes, so did the stream run down across the sand. Its bed and both its banks were made of stone, together with the slopes along its shores, so that I saw a passageway lay there. Among all other things that I have shown you since we first made our way across the gate, whose threshold is forbidden to no one, no thing has yet been witnessed by your eyes as notable as this bridge. It is the bridge where I had revealed it, which quenches every flame that burns above it. These words were spoken by my guide. At this I begged him to bestow the food for which he had already given me the craving. A devastated land lies in mid -sea, a land that is called Crete, he answered me. Under its king the world once lived chastely. Within that land there was a mountain blessed with leaves and waters, and they called it Ida."
    },
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      "start": 6165.81,
      "end": 6214.43,
      "time_label": "1:42:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "But it is withered now, like some old thing. It once was chosen as a trusted cradle for Rhea, for her son. To hide him better, when he cried out, she had her servant's clamor. Within the mountain is a huge old man, who stands erect, his back turned to Wad Damietta, and looks at Rome as if it were his mirror. The old man's head is fashioned to find gold. The purest silver forms his arms and chest, but he is made of brass down to the cleft. Below that point he is of choicest iron except for his right foot, made of baked clay, and he rests more on this than on the left. Each part of him except the gold is cracked, and down that fissure there are tears that drip. When gathered, they pierce through that cavern's floor, and crossing rocks into this valley, from Akron and Styx to Phlegthon."
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "time_label": "1:43:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "And then they make their way down this tight channel. And at the point past which there is no descent, they form Cocytus. Since you are to see what that pool is, I will not describe it here. And I asked him, but if the rivulet must follow such a course down from our world, why can we see it only at its boundary? And he to me, you know this place is round, and though the way that you have come is long, and always toward the left and toward the bottom, you still have not completed all the circles, so that if something new appears to us, it need not bring such wonder to your fates. And I again, Master, where is Phlegthon and where is Leith? You omit the second, and say this rain of tears has formed the first. I am pleased indeed, he said, with all your questions, yet one of them might well have found its answer already, when you saw the red stream boiling."
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 6267.41,
      "end": 6287.27,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "You shall see Leith. But past this abyss, there where the spirits go to cleanse themselves, where their repentant guilt is set aside. Then he declared, The time has come to quit this wood. See that you follow close behind me. These margins form a path that does not scorch, and over them all flaming vapour is quenched."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 6287.39,
      "end": 6352.73,
      "time_label": "1:44:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, alright, so two comments, okay. The first comment is that clearly the geography of hell really matters, okay. If Donnie is going to spend a lot of time describing how these rivers flow, how hell is constructed the way it is, then it clearly matters. But again, I don't have the knowledge of the occult, of rituals, of magic to fully appreciate why this matters, okay. Clearly, if you visualize this, there is symbology at work, right. At this time in history, it's very common for people to engage in magic, basically using symbols, using chants, using rituals in order to summon angels, to summon demons. And if you were to, again, draw this out, if you were actually to act this out, then that gives you insight into how these things work. But again, I'm not, I don't have any expertise in symbology, in the occult, in magic. I don't have enough to comment, okay."
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "text": "So if you really want to understand Dante, then you need to do a lot more research into the occult. That's point one. Point two is, what is strange about this canto is, for the first time, we are meeting a non -human who is being punished, right. Throughout the Inferno, we met humans, and they could be mythological or real, but they're being punished. And for the first time, we are meeting a non -human, a giant who's being punished. And what is his reaction to being punished? And in this, it's violence against God, everyone's running, there's like fire and brimstone being held, being rained down on them, okay. So they're trying to dodge all these missiles. And how does this giant feel about all this? Anyone? What is his reaction?"
    },
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      "start": 6406.64,
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      "time_label": "1:46:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "He's crying."
    },
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      "text": "He's not crying."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "He's happy, right? Or rather, he's trying to appear chill."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah, he doesn't care, right? So what's the message here? You have a giant who's like, ah, whatever, man. Like missiles are being rained on me, I don't care. Who cares? And the others are like dodging, the humans are dodging or running away. What's going on here? And again, this is the only time when we have a non -human being punished. And the entire scene is like, this is complete apathy. And Virgil says, oh, you're so arrogant. What's the message here? Yes?"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:47:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "I just guess, maybe the great men, they want the people to care about them, but don't do not care about him. It means that they're nothing. So maybe this is quite punishment for those great guys who think they're great, but actually they're not."
    },
    {
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      "start": 6479.27,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Yes, yes. Maybe because hell, should only impact humans, you know, because the human is seen, Dante sees the human as the middle of the universe, basically. Yeah. So God doesn't really care about giants. He cares about humans more."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "So what is the function of hell? Why does hell exist?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "To force reflection?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yes. Okay. So what's going on here is, if you just, analyze the text, what it's suggesting is that only we humans can be punished because only we humans can create our own path to redemption. Does that make sense? The giant will not be redeemed. He doesn't really care, right? But we are being punished because at the very heart of who we are, we are divine spark that can never be extinguished. So even though it feels hopeless, even though you give up hope, there's still that spark in you. And that's why you're being punished, to force reflection, to force you to recognize divine spark in you. And that's why the punishments are constructed the way they are, to show you what your sin has caused, to show you, to visualize the sin for you, okay? All right. And again, when Virgil talks to these people, what they always say is, talk to Dante so that he will write about you so that he will be remembered, okay?"
    },
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      "text": "And so even though you think you are in hell, remember, there are still people who remember who you are, and that is your path to redemption, right? The fact that regardless of how low you've sunk, remember, there are still people who remember you. There are still people who love you. And once you believe that, that is your path to redemption and salvation, okay? So for Dante, what's really important to understand is that we are our own redemption and salvation, okay? Any more? Any questions or comments? All right. Let's move on, okay? This is Canto 15 of Inferno."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Canto 15. Now one of the hard borders bears us forward. The river mist forms shadows overhead and shields the shores in water from the fire. Just as between Wisun and Bruges, the Flemings, in terror of the tide that floods toward them, have built a wall of dikes to daunt the sea. And as the Paduans along the Brenta build bulwarks to defend their towns and castles before the Doctides fall on Carantana. Just so were these embankments, even though they were not built so high and not so broad, whoever was the artisan who made them."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
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      "start": 6662.83,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so here in these lines, what Dante's revealing is that the geography of hell matches that of the geography of Italy, okay? Right? So this is clearly, he's trying to say that this hell that I am describing to you, I'm actually describing Italy at this point in history, okay? Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "text": "By now we were so distant from the wood that I should not have made out where it was, not even if I turned around to look, when we came on a company of spirits who made their way along the bank, and each stared steadily at us as in the dusk. Beneath the new moon men look at each other. They knit their brows and squinted at us just as an old tailor at his needle's eye. And when that family looked harder, I was recognized by one who took me by the hem and cried out, this is marvelous. That spirit having stretched his arm toward me, I fixed my eyes upon his baked brown features so that the scorching of his face could not prevent my mind from recognizing him. And lowering my face to meet his face, I answered him, are you here, Ser Brunetto? And he, my son, do not mind if Brunetto, Latino, lingers for a while with you and lets the file he's with pass on ahead."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Okay."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. Okay. So this is a very important passage in the vine column. Okay. So let me explain what's going on. They are in the circle of violence. And these are, this is like the worst people. These are people who've committed violence against God and nature. Okay. And so the main crime is homosexuality, basically, salami. And Ser Brunetto is very important because he's essentially Dante's teacher and father. Okay. This is a person that is dear to Dante's heart. Only Beatrice is actually more dear to Dante than Ser Brunetto. And you can see in their words how affectionate they are towards each other. So Ser Brunetto, he is a homosexual. He's condemned to the circle and he's running with other homosexuals in the circle. And the thing is, if you stop, if you ever lie down and you rest, you're condemned even more. Okay. So what he's saying is like, Dante, I love you so much. I'm going to stop and be punished even more so that I can talk to you."
    },
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      "text": "All right. So this is showing the affection between Ser Brunetto and Dante. But this raises a really huge problem for us. Does Dante really think homosexuality is a problem? It's a sin? Right? This is, does Dante really believe this? So again, this is Ser Brunetto, the person that Dante loves like a father and Ser Brunetto loves him like a son. And they've always been very close. And you would imagine that Dante would put him in either purgatory or in paradise. And he doesn't do that. He puts him in inferno. But not only that, but he puts, but Ser Brunetto, was a virtuous person who really only, who only did one thing, which is like, he was a homosexual. That was it. Okay. That was the extent of his sin. And for that, and for that only, he's condemned to run around with other homosexuals for all eternity."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. This is a huge paradox. Yes."
    },
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      "text": "I think it's because homosexuality cannot bear children. And so in that sense, you don't have the hope for the future because you don't have a future generation to remember you or to contribute to the creation of God. And so that's why sodomy is such a big sin."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. And so how, how would you compensate for that? What did he do to compensate for the fact that they didn't have children? What did he do to show that he had faith, hope, and love? Yes. Through education. Excuse me? Through education. Through education. And what else? Can you guess his guess? Well, he taught Dante, right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Through Dante."
    },
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      "text": "What did he teach Dante?"
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      "text": "Faith, hope, and love. I don't know."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "What would he teach her off? Like at this time in history? Well, maybe poetry? Yeah. Yeah. Right? He was a poet. Right? So yeah. Okay. I understand. He doesn't want to have children, and that shows his lack of faith, love, and hope. But we already said that poetry is always an expression of faith, love, and hope. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Well, I think him being in hell just shows that it isn't Dante who puts them in hell, but it's the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church says that homosexuality is a big sin, but Dante wouldn't say that. So it's not him who puts people in hell, right? It's the Catholic Church."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "But it's Dante who put Beatrice in heaven. Do you understand? So why would Dante do that? Why would Dante put Beatrice in heaven and then put his teacher, his father figure, in hell? And again, I mean, the only crime, the only sin, that Sir Bernardo is being accused of is homosexuality. Yeah, he was homosexual, but do you really, really think Dante cares that much about homosexuality?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Yes? It was a boundary you couldn't cross and disagree with at the time. And so just like if he would just mention that homosexuality was fine, then his work would have been destroyed. Do you think homosexuality was common at the time in history? No, but it occurred or in some texts."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, guys, okay, I hate to say this, okay? All right, I'm sorry. This might get me bad on YouTube, okay? But if you look at every society, okay, regardless if it's in China or Italy at this time, if you look at the elite, okay? I'm talking like the nobility, the elite, okay? Homosexuality was really, really common, guys. Really common, okay? You will not find me in society where a wealthy society, where the elite did not practice homosexuality in some form, yes?"
    },
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      "text": "And especially during the Hellenistic period, it is actually a greater way to show your intellectual ability to have another male partner tend to have a wife because a wife is uneducated. You cannot have a soul to soul talk with her, but you could with a younger boy. And so that's why, yeah, the writer of the picture of Dorian Gray, Oscar Wilde, really wanted that kind of, yeah, because he expired through the Greek culture. So, so, right?"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:58:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Homosexuality is very common among the elite. And so what Sir Bernardo did, he did nothing wrong, but just do what all the elite did. And not all the elite, but like, it was pretty common, man. It was really common, okay? Like, if you go to like Yale, okay? Yeah, like, yeah. Okay. But yeah, it's a common thing, okay? And among the elite, it's not a big deal. So again, we have to figure out why this is happening. All right? Okay. All right. So we'll do that after the break. Okay. Welcome back. So to summarize what we learned this morning, remember that Dante is a prophet. He's basically trying to create an allegory of hell to represent Italy, right? That's why he's focused so much on the geography of hell. He's describing a way that if you are Italian, you just like recognize the geography right away. So hell as an allegory for Italy."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 7149.26,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "And we know that ultimately as a prophet, what Dante is trying to convey to his audience is that you either repent or you will be judged, okay? Judge judgment, God's judgment will be swift, brutal, and harsh. And no one listens. So in 1357 came the Black Death to wipe out around a third of Europe, even half of Europe at certain places. And so what we're trying to do is we're trying to figure out how Dante perceived his period at this time. And there's certain things about Florence that made it unredeemable, okay? And what we're trying to figure out as well is our time, okay? Like today. Do these things apply to today? So the first major characteristic about hell is it's factionalism, right? So whereas, you know, Virgil is essentially the pope of hell. He is the authority figure. There are many factions who don't actually listen to him. And there's always infighting going on."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "So there's lots of factionalism going on in Florence at this time. And the same is happening today, right? Where you have wars going on, right? Second major characteristic of Florence is the intense economic pressure to succeed, right? All that matters is success and achievement. And today we call this the meritocracy. And in a meritocracy, there are certain things that become common, and yet at the same time, there are inhumane. For example, the most obvious is just to apologize, right? So remember the scene where Dante lies to Cavalcante and says, your son is dead and burning in hell. And he, and it causes tremendous despair to the father. And Dante recognizes he did wrong. And rather than apologize, he runs away and tells someone else to tell him on his behalf, okay? So there is an almost incapacity to apologize. So let me ask you this question. Let's go back to the example where at Tsinghua in the 80s or 90s, there are two classmates who are good friends."
    },
    {
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      "text": "One gets in, the other receives the envelope, and rather than tell the friend, just throws the envelope in the garbage. And do you think that other person ever apologized in her life? Probably not, okay? I'm guessing not. But why? Why can't she just apologize?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yes? Because she probably has a huge ego and she feels like she's superior. She should be treated as equal to the other person. And she justifies what her deed is."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Okay. Yes. Yes, go ahead. I mean, if she apologized, then the other girl would know that she would have got into Princeton in the first place. Well, eventually she found out, right?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:02:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Because I'm like, you know, 20 years afterwards, 50 years afterwards, did she ever apologize? Probably not. But why? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:02:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Like she knows what she has done. It's not, it's evil. It's not good. And it kind of like, she's saying like, oh, I know it's bad."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:02:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "But it was evil, right?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:02:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. But if she doesn't apologize, it probably makes her feel better. Or like, I don't know. Well, go ahead."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:03:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "And then Carol. Yeah."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:03:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "Maybe he, maybe she can forgive herself. So she can forgive. So she can say sorry to her roommate."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:03:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Okay."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Carol."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "I think she feels she's wrong in the first place. So why does she have to apologize? She was wronged by the world."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So the thing about, um, um, I mean, the meritocracy is like, first of all, you become the center of the world, right? But also like you're keeping score everywhere. Does it make sense? So not only do you care about that other person's grades, but you also care about, hmm, does that person have a better house than I, than I, than I do? Does the person have better children than I do? You're always keeping score, right? And one way to keep score is how, how much wrong did you do? Right? Everything, everything is, is a test. Everything is a score card, right? So if I apologize, that means I, I'm not, I'm not in this person's debt. I now owe him or her a favor, right? Rather than seeing an apology as rectifying a wrong, I see it as forcing myself to go into someone's debt. Okay. Does it make sense? Okay."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "And that's why people don't apologize in a very, um, in a meritocracy. But the other thing that's even more troubling in a meritocracy is, and, um, it's, you delight in others. Pain. Okay. Think about this where, you know, you are at school and for, for the past year you delight in others pain. Okay. So for the past, for this entire year, there's one student in the class, usually a girl, but she scores a hundred on every single math test, right? And you get like, I don't know, 80, 85 on the final test. On final exam, she gets M 70 and she is distraught. She's crying. She, she, she's going berserk. How do you feel? No, you don't. I put it. You don't have flies."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Maybe she cheated on a previous test."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "No, no. But I'm saying, what is your emotion? What is your emotion at this time? Well, I mean, uh, my emotion maybe depends, um, how it doesn't act."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:05:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "No, it doesn't."
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      "time_label": "2:05:34",
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      "text": "It doesn't, it doesn't depend who you are. It doesn't depend how you feel. What is your emotion? Finally. Finally. Okay. I do understand. Finally. Okay. She finally failed. Right. Every single day. The seizure is like, Oh, she's the best in the world. And like, just be like her. And then she's trying to screw it up. Okay. So you delight in others pain. And we see this in the vine comedy where Don is crossing the river sticks. Right. And this is the, um, circle of wrath where people are angry and they tear each other apart. Um, one of Dante's enemies from real life, Philippine, Argentina, he falls into this lake and, and the, and the other souls are terrible apart. Okay. Literally Tim apart. And Dante is ecstatic. Right. So rather than be like, feel pity, like, great man. Okay. And you know, it's not a good look, but what Don is doing is he's trying to reveal the problems and consequences of a meritocracy."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "What a meritocracy ultimately is. Imagine a race. Okay. Imagine a race and everyone's running as fast as they can. The person next to you trips and falls and breaks his or her ankle. Right. What you should do as a human being is stop and help that person get up, but you don't, you just smile and run on and you take the light and that other person falling, falling down. And I mean, we live in China. We see this every single day, right? Unfortunately, where if you have, if you're a parent and you have kids, you put your kids through this incredibly harsh system, right? And you see your child unhappy and you see your child under a lot of stress. And quite honestly, a lot of them will develop psychological issues, but you keep on going because you thought you think that if I fall behind, I'm dead."
    },
    {
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      "end": 7715.16,
      "time_label": "2:07:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. So that is the first major issue. But now what Don is going to do is he's also going to be another issue, which is homosexuality. Okay. Homosexuality. Okay. And this is really confusing for us, right? Because we've all seen Brokeback Mountain, Brokeback Mountain, right? We all know that for the longest time, homosexuals were persecuted in society. They had to hide. They, their love was forbidden. So isn't being a homosexual an act of faith, hope, and love? What does Don have against homosexuals? And you can't be like, well, he's just a product of his times. Because as we said in this class, we have to assume that Don is perfect and that he is timeless. Okay. So what we need to figure out is what is the problem with homosexuality? And also we need to be careful because if I say anything bad about homosexuality, I'm pretty sure next time I'm at Yale, I'll get stoned to death."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:08:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah. So yes, yes. You think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. Yes."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "So I actually had this conversation with my husband about this because I have a lot of gay friends. I think they're the best in the world. And he's like, yeah, but there are problems with homosexuality. So we had this debate. So if anything I say, it's my husband. Okay. Don't blame me. Don't stoke me. But he said that the actual problem with it, it's kind of the same as greed and all that other things is that after you go through with all these acts or love or whatever, it brings to no fruitation of, um, because what essentially sex is, at least the way God intended it, for Adam and Eve is that you are supposed to be fruitful and multiply and occupy the earth. But if you, you are gay or homosexual, then you essentially cannot, unless you adopt a kid, right? Uh, like in modern family. Uh, but then he's saying, then you go"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "through all this act and love and you, you don't appreciate the other gender, which is a different perspective. So if you are gay, you like your men, you like the other man, then you don't actually understand the women's perspective in a way. So in that way, you are in love with your own kind. You're in love with men's perspective. And then that way."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
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      "time_label": "2:09:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. That's great. That's brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing that. But let me ask you this question. Okay. It sounds the way your husband has defined homosexuality. It sounds like, um, homosexuality, sodomy belongs in the upper circles like lust and gluttony and wrath because you're not hurting anyone. All you're doing is you are not fulfilling your true potential as a human being. But in this circle, which is a circle of violence, right? The circle of violence, you're hurt. You actually have to hurt someone, right? So the question then is like, how does homosexuality actually go about hurting other people? Uh, yes."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:10:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Well, it hurts women because it denies femininity in the world and on earth because all the girls in this class are looking at you like, what are you talking about? Well,"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:10:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "well, because,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "well, because it's normal. I don't know. Uh, yeah. In the Christian view, maybe because, uh, you know, I've met for in love is men."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:10:50",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "There's no result because there's no, no children. Uh,"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:10:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "the problem with that argument is you're saying that essentially the only purpose of a relationship is reproduction. Yeah,"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:11:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:11:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Jay and then Edward in Dante's time, was there a lot of grooming going on? Like, did he, I'm just wondering from Dante's perspective, what did he see that made him structure it this way?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:11:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Exactly. Okay. So there must be something about Dante's understanding of homosexuality that made him resent it. Okay. Exactly. And he will tell us in the next two contos. Uh, this is so important to him. He'll spend the next two contos on it. Uh, yes, maybe through the historical lens when it's a man and a woman do it."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:11:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "There's kind of like the yin and yang go together. Yeah. And then the, Whereas when it's two men that, uh, the act is probably more graphic and more violent because you have two masculine energies."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:11:45",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Right."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Um, okay. Yeah. So, yes,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I wonder if it has to do with elite circles where they think two men are superior to women. So they refuse to. So it's kind of almost the same as ego or arrogance that women are inferior. So it's making Eve kind of, um, the sinful, the corrupt, weak,"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:12:10",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "uh, yes."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah. Uh, very good point. Uh, because we see in Paradisio that the upper echelons of heaven were fully occupied by these women. And now we're getting into the kind of like the depths of hell and then we're seeing, um, um, think about all these gay men that you've met in your life."
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      "text": "What, what are they obsessed about? Uh, yes,"
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      "text": "maybe because soulmate, because, uh, no, no, I'm asking you about men like gay men in their day to day life."
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      "text": "Well, what are they obsessed about? Yeah. Yes. Could be pride to me. Pride."
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      "text": "What do you mean by pride? Like they, they want to show they're part of this tribe and they want to, like, they're proud of it."
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      "text": "Okay. They're part of being homosexual. Okay. Uh, no, sorry. Sorry. Let, let, let, let, let's go one more one. Yes. Sex. They, they want to have a lot of sex. Yeah. Okay. But, but what do they do every day?"
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      "text": "Uh, yes. I'd say they're, but they would be obsessed about finding other gay men. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Because it's difficult to know. It's not, it's not about sex. Okay. Not into today's world, but back then, uh, not back then either."
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      "text": "Okay. It was actually pretty simple. Hmm."
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      "text": "Yeah."
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      "text": "Yeah. If you meet a lot, if you meet gay men, okay. The thing about them is like, they're really obsessed with their parents, much more so than woman. Right. I mean, is, is that a general statement?"
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      "text": "I have a joke that if you find a guy extremely hot and sexy, chances are he's gay because they, they care about appearance more than straight men."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "And, and, and so this is like the same argument. Is he gay or is he just a European? Like, like, caring about, caring about your appearance, is not something that you can just define as inherently gay."
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      "text": "I don't think there's a logical correlation between that. If you care too much about your parents, and all you care about your, your parents, what word would we have to describe you?"
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      "text": "Narcissist?"
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      "text": "Yeah. Narcissist. You understand? Remember Narcissist?"
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      "text": "The, Narcissist, right?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "The Greek legend of this man, so in love with himself, he looks at himself every single day. Okay. That gives us a clue as what, what Donny's issue of homosexuality is. You're just looking at yourself every single day. And so like, when you actually meet someone, like, what are you looking for in that person? Yourself, right? Okay. So, so that's Donny's problem. Okay. But, but, but if that's by itself, the other question then is, why is he in the circle of violence? Because you're not actually hurting anyone. You're just, you're just like being narcissistic, right? Okay. All right. So like, like that's a question we want to answer. Okay. But, but yeah. Okay. Let's keep on reading."
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      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Oh, count to 15, line 34."
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      "text": ""
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "I think we're at 31."
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      "text": "Oh, 31. Okay."
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      "text": "So, so this is Sir, Sir Brunetto, who is the teacher and father figure to Dante. And again, he is in the circle of violence because of his violence against God. He's a homosexual. He's a homosexual, which goes against God in nature. Okay."
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      "text": "Verse 31. And he, my son, do not mind if Brunetto Latino lingers for a while with you and lets the file he's with pass on ahead. I said, with all my strength, I pray you stay. And if you have, you'd have me rest a while with you. I shall that please him with him. I go. Oh, son, he said, wherever of this flock stops, but a moment stays a hundred years and cannot shield himself. When fire strikes, therefore, move on below, but close. I'll follow. And then I shall rejoin you company who go lamenting their eternal sorrows. I did not dare to leave my path for his own level, but I walked with head bent lows as does a man who goes in reverence. And he began what destiny or chance has let you here below before your last day came. And who is he who shows the way there? And the sunlit life above."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0280",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8190s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0280",
      "start": 8190.33,
      "end": 8241.07,
      "time_label": "2:16:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "I answered before my years were full. I went astray within a valley. Only yesterday at dawn I turned my back upon it. But when I was newly lost, he here appeared to guide me home again along this path. And he to me, if you pursue your star, you cannot fail to reach a splendid harbor. If in fair life, I judged you properly. And if I had not died too soon for this, on seeing heaven was so kind to you, I should have helped sustain you and your work. But that malicious, that ungrateful people come down in ancient times from Fiesole, still keeping something of the rock. And mountain for your good deeds will be your enemy. And there's cause among the sour swabs. The sweet fake is not meant to bear its fruit. The world has long since called them blind. A people presumptuous, avaricious, envious. Be sure to cleanse yourself of their foul ways."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8241s",
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      "start": 8241.98,
      "end": 8265.25,
      "time_label": "2:17:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Your fortune holds and stores such honor for you. One party and the other will be hungry for you, but keep the grass far from the goat. For let the beast of Fiesole find forge amongst themselves and leave the plant alone. If still among their dung it rises up, in which there lives again the sacred seed of those few Romans who remained in Florence when such a nest of wickedness was built."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8265s",
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      "start": 8265.39,
      "end": 8283.15,
      "time_label": "2:17:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so this is a direct reference to the Aeneid where Aeneas visits his father in the underworld to receive his prophecy. And this mirrors that, okay? So again, this is highlighting the fact that Supernato really is the father figure to Dante. Okay, keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8286s",
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      "start": 8286.47,
      "end": 8307.63,
      "time_label": "2:18:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "If my desire were answered totally, I said to Supernato, you'd still be among, not banished from humanity. Within my memory is fixed and now moves me, your dear, your kind paternal image when in the world above from time to time you taught me how man makes himself eternal. And while I live, my gratitude for that must always be apparent in my words."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
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      "start": 8307.69,
      "end": 8324.77,
      "time_label": "2:18:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so he's being very explicit here, right? You're my father, you're my teacher. Everything I know is because of you, right? And he's saying that if I could, I would have you still among us. But he can because he wrote this thing, okay? So this is a huge paradox for us. Keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8326s",
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      "start": 8326.69,
      "end": 8376.19,
      "time_label": "2:18:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 88. What do you have told me of my course? I write. I keep it with another text for comment by one who'll understand if I may reach her. One thing alone I'd have you plainly see so long as I am not rebuked by conscience I stand prepared for fortune come what may. My years find no new pledge in that prediction. Therefore let fortune turn her wheel as she may please and let the peasant turn his mattock. At this my master turned his head around and toward the right and looked at me and said, he who takes note of this has listened well. But nonetheless my talk with Ser Brunetto continues and I ask of him who are his comrades of repute and excellence. And he to me, to know of some is good but for the rest silence is to be praised. The time we have is short for so much talk. In brief,"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0286",
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      "start": 8376.61,
      "end": 8383.13,
      "time_label": "2:19:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "that my company has clerics and men of letters and of fame and all were stained by one same sin upon the earth."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8383s",
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      "start": 8383.29,
      "end": 8420.55,
      "time_label": "2:19:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, alright. Okay, so this is again very problematic. You know, he's saying that with me are men who are clerics and men who are poets and men who are extremely successful, okay? So this is a huge problem because regardless of your achievements you're still stuck here just because you happen to like other men, alright? This is very paradoxical. It is very, it is very, it is not something that we've ever seen from Dante before, okay? This does not make any sense on the surface. Keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0288",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8423s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0288",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0288",
      "start": 8423.13,
      "end": 8468.25,
      "time_label": "2:20:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "No, no. That sorry crowd holds Priscian and Francesco di Corso and among them you can see if you have any longing for such scurf. The one, the servant of his servant sent from the Arno to the Bacchiglione's banks. And there he left his tendons strained by sin. I would say more, but both my walk and words must not be longer for beyond I see new spoke emerging from the sandy bed. Now people come with whom I must not be. Let my tesoro in which I solely live be precious to you and I ask no more. And then he turned and seemed like one of those who race across the fields to win the green cloth at Verona. Of those runners he appeared to be the winner, not the loser. Okay."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 8468.39,
      "end": 8488.49,
      "time_label": "2:21:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "All right. So in the next canto, canto 16, we will meet three really distinguished Florentines. Okay. These are aristocrats and they're extremely virtuous. And back in Florence, everyone praises them. But again, just because of their homosexuality, they are condemned to the circle of violence. Okay. Let's read."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8490s",
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      "start": 8490.3,
      "end": 8542.05,
      "time_label": "2:21:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Canto 16. No sooner had I reached the place where one could hear a murmur like a beehive's hum of waters as they fell to the next circle when setting out together, three shades ran, leaving another company that passed beneath the rain of bitter punishment. They came toward us and each of them cried out, stop you who by your clothing seem to be someone who comes from our indecent country. Ah me, what wounds I saw upon their limbs, wounds new and old, wounds that the flame seared in. It pains me still as I remember it. When they cried out, my master paid attention. He turned his face toward me and then he said, now wait, to these one must show courtesy. And were it not the nature of this place for shafts of fire to fall, I'd say that haste was seemlier for you than for those three. As soon as we stood still, they started"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0291",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8542s",
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      "start": 8542.05,
      "end": 8562.7,
      "time_label": "2:22:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "up their ancient wail again and when they reached us, they formed a wheel, all three of them together. As champions, naked oiled, we'll always do each, studying the grip that serves him best before the blows and wounds begin to fall. While wheeling, so each one made sure his face was turned to me so that their necks opposed their feet in one uninterrupted flow."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=8562s",
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      "start": 8562.96,
      "end": 8577.43,
      "time_label": "2:22:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so these three individuals are the three most distinguished members of the Florentine nobility. Okay, they're so distinguished that even Virgil admires and respects them. Okay, uh, keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 8581.72,
      "end": 8638.46,
      "time_label": "2:23:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 28. And if the squalor of this shifting sand together with our baked and barren features makes us in our requests contemptible, one said, then may our fume incline, may our fume incline, may our fume incline our mind to tell us who you are, whose living feet can make their way through hell with such assurance. He in whose steps you see me tread, although he now must wheel about both peeled and naked, was higher in degree than you believe. He was a grandson of the good Gualdrada, and Guido Guerra was his name, and life his sword and his good sense accomplished much. The other who behind me trampled sand, Tagallo Aldobrandi, one whose voice should have been heeded in the world above. And I who share this punishment with them was Jacopo Rusticucci. Certainly more than all else, my savage wife destroyed me. If I'd had shield and shelter from the fire, I should have thrown myself down among them."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 8638.58,
      "end": 8686.385,
      "time_label": "2:23:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "I think my master would have sanctioned that. But since that would have left me burned and baked, my fear went out against the good intention that made me so impatient to embrace them. Then I began, your presence in me, the state had fixed not scorn but sorrow in me, and so deeply that it will only disappear slowly. As soon as my lord spoke to me with words that made me understand what kind of men were coming toward us, men of worth like yours, for I am your city, and with fondness I've always told and heard the others tell of both your actions and your honored names. I leave the Gaul and go for the sweet apples that I was promised by my truthful guide, but first I must ascend it to the center. So may your soul long lead, your limbs, and may your fame shine after you, he answered then."
    },
    {
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      "start": 8686.385,
      "end": 8716.28,
      "time_label": "2:24:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Tell us, if courtesy and valor still abide within our city as they did when we were there, or have they disappeared completely? For Guglielmo Possiedre, who only recently has come to share our torments and goes there with our companions, has caused us much affliction with his words. New comers to the city in quick gains have brought excess and arrogance to your floor, and so you weep for it already. So I cried out Wait, wait, so, so the words excess and arrogance, okay?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 8716.28,
      "end": 8730.47,
      "time_label": "2:25:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Excess and arrogance. Also, um, excess and arrogance. These are, this is the current state of Florence, okay? Excess and arrogance. Okay, keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 8735.46,
      "end": 8781.95,
      "time_label": "2:25:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "76. So I cried out with face up raised. The three looked at each other. When they heard my answers, men will stare when they have heard the truth. If you can always offer a reply so readily to others at all three, I am happy you who speak at will so clearly. So if you can escape these lands of darkness and see the lovely stars on your return when you repeat with pleasure, I was there. Be sure that you remember us to men. At this they broke their wheel, and as they fled, their swift legs seemed to be no less than wings. The time it took for them to disappear more brief than time it takes to say amen, and so my master thought it right to leave. I followed him. We'd only walked a little when roaring water grew so near to us, we hardly could have heard each other speak. And even as the"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 8781.95,
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      "time_label": "2:26:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "river that is first to take its own course eastward from Mount Viso along the left flank of the Apennines, which up above is called the Aquacheta, before it spills into its valley bed and flows without that name beyond Forley, reverberates above San Benedetto d 'Alpe as it cascades in one leap where there is space enough to house a thousand. So did we hear that blackened water roar as it plunged down a steep and craggy bank, enough to deafen us in a few hours. Around my waist I had a cordless girdle, and with it once I thought I should be able to catch the leopard with the painted hide. And after I had loosened it completely, just as my guide commanded me to do, I handed it to him, knotted and coiled. At this he wheeled around upon his right and cast it at some distance from the edge straight down into the depth of the ravine."
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      "text": "And surely something strange must here reply, I said within myself, to this strange sign, the sign my master follows with his eye. Ah, how much care men ought to exercise with those whose penetrating intellect can see our thoughts, not just our outer act. He said to me, Now there will soon emerge what I await and what your thought has conjured. It soon must be discovered to your sight. Faced with that truth which seems a lie, a man should always close his lips as soon as he can. To tell it shames him, even though he's blameless, but here I can't be still. And by the lines of this my comedy, reader, I swear, and may my verse find favor for long years, that through the dense and darkened air I saw a figure swimming, rising up enough to bring amazement to the firmest heart, like one returning from the waves where he went down to"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "lose an anchor snagged upon a reef, or something else hid in the sea, who stretches upward and draws in his feet."
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    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so now they will descend down to the circle of fraud. Now, okay, so let's think about this. Sir Bernetto was in the last canto, and this creates a paradox, right? Why would Dante put such a man he loves in the circle of violence? And that creates a paradox. But now, in this canto, the paradox strengthens because these three individuals are the best Florence has to offer, okay? They are the best of nobility, and they also suffer with Sir Bernetto. So clearly, Dante wants us to think about what's going on here, okay? Why are these four individuals who commit no other sin other than homosexuality, why are they in the circle of violence? And in the worst part, right? Because they have committed violence against God. All right. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "It could be seen as... Yeah, go ahead. It's fine. Go ahead. I think it could be seen as violence because it could lead to the end of humanity. And I'm thinking of this because if we're a reflection of the universe, and if we engage in homosexuality, that would mean the universe could engage in that, and if we tend it to, the end of times, then it's the end of humanity."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:29:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. Yup. Sure. That is the explanation that's offered, right? But again, does that make sense to you? It has to make sense, right? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "time_label": "2:30:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Yeah. Actually, I don't think it makes sense. I'm not gay, of course. But, you know, I still believe that if you have free will, and you have love, and why you can't just be a homosexual? I mean..."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah. So again, it's a problem for us, right? Why is homosexuality so bad? Okay. All right. So let's figure this out. And again, to read Dante, you have to read with your imagination, right? You have to use your imagination. So let's use your imagination and ask ourselves, if we were designing this circle, right? Violence against God. Who would we put in this circle? What is the worst thing in life you can do and which would offend both God and nature? What is it? Excuse me? No, that's violence against yourself, right? There are already three crimes. Violence against others, violence against yourself, and violence against God and nature. I'm saying, like, what is probably the most unnatural act we could ever do? Incest. Exactly. Incest, guys. Do you understand? There could be bestiality, having sex with animals, but that's not as bad as having sex with your sister. Okay? Do you understand this? I don't know."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "I'm going to ask you this question. Besides homosexuality, what else is pretty common among the elite?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Incest."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Incest is pretty common among the elite, right? Because they want to maintain their bloodline. Because they want to maintain their purity. Do you understand? Okay? So this is implicit here. If it is violence against God and nature, people who commit incest have to be here as well, but they're not mentioned, which forces us to imagine they're here. Okay? Now, let's figure out this. Okay? Let us use our imagination to figure out what is the connection between homosexuality and incest? What is it? What's the problem? What is the connection? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "In sex is having sex with your own kind, and so is homosexuality with your own kind, like your own gender."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Right. And so what are you doing in society? What do you do with other people?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "You exclude."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Exclusion. You understand? It's exclusion. The purpose of this is to exclude other people. The elite only want to maintain their privileges and block social mobility. Okay? This is the violence against God and nature. Okay? Social mobility, okay? And openness, right? Homosexuality, it's the expression of self -love. And self -indulgence. It's the expression of excess and arrogance. Right? We are so superior to you, we will only have sex with our kind and with ourselves. We refuse to associate with any of you. Right? And then over time, what happens? If the elite engage in homosexuality and incest, what happens now?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Extinction, because with incest, your weaker gene gets combined, and you have a lot of, yeah."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, yes, exactly, okay?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "So this threat, yes? I'm just pushing this logic further. So if the elite only engages in homosexuality, then they don't reproduce. They get to appoint, you know, who will inherit their power, their wealth, and then so on and so forth. So it's a much more kind of controlled way of propagating power, wealth, and all that."
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      "text": "Yes, right, okay. All right, so let me now, now let's do a compare and contrast, okay? Let's think about a society in which the elite don't practice homosexuality, and let's think about a society in which they do practice homosexuality, okay? All right, so, I mean, again, we can generalize and say that as society rises, okay, there is less homosexuality. And as society declines, there is more homosexuality. Does that make sense? Right? If a society is poor, there's less likely to be homosexuality. If a society is rich and declining, there's more likely to be homosexuality. All right? And the example of this is now just Western culture. If you just turn on TV, homosexuals are not persecuted, right? They are celebrated, right? Before, you know, in America, you had a gay politician, Peter Buttigieg. Before, it would blow the imagination that any politician would be like, would say, I'm gay, I'm proud of it, and please vote for me, right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "It would blow the imagination. Now, but, you know, in 2020, when Pete Buttigieg ran for the Democratic nomination, his homosexuality made him very popular. All right? So my question to you is, what's the difference? What's the difference between a society where homosexuality is persecuted and a society which celebrates homosexuality?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Yes, you first. Because before, homosexuality meant exclusion, whereas now I think it's more, way more inclusion, where we see as they're way more open -minded and they're open to engage in any culture, philosophy, and all."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah, but that's a good thing, right? But I'm asking you why Donnie would think this represents a society in decline, right? Because clearly lamenting about Florence, right? He's clearly, he says that Florence right now is a city of excess and arrogance, right? And homosexuality is a very important part of that. So I'm trying to figure out why that's the case. Why is it that you embrace homosexuality, it makes your society much more open, but it causes you to decline? That's a paradox, right? But it is historically true. Look at the fall of Rome. Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I think, sir, I think at the time it didn't make your society more opened. I think it's only applicable today, whereas, so before it was exclusion, whereas now the whole aspect of it changed. So I think... Could you repeat that? I'm not sure I understood you. I think at the time of Dante, homosexuality was about exclusion, so it was more of a negative aspect, whereas today it's more about open -minded. And so before it wasn't about openness, it was exclusion. So you think homosexuality is a good thing? It's good for society? I'm saying it changed. So before it was, like, against open -mindedness, and now it's more open."
    },
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      "text": "So I'm just asking you a question, which is, like, what Dante is saying is that homosexuality is a sign of social decline. There's lots of homosexuality today everywhere in China and the United States. Is it a good thing or a bad thing, do you think?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "I just think the definition changed. So if you think it's a bad thing and this thing changed, then, like, you can't just say it's a bad thing today. The definition changed."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "No, no, no, the definition of homosexuality has not changed, right? It's still sex between two guys. How has that changed? So, yeah, go ahead."
    },
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      "text": "So, yeah, I think I understand his question, that he thinks that homosexuality today represents openness instead of closeness and exclusiveness. So then it shall now be elevated because it's a good thing to embrace. But I will argue that if we look at the France Olympics in the past few years, the... So homosexuality or, like, the elevation of this, like, transgender and everything as well, that it actually deprives of women or the other sex more because what happens with the French Olympics the other year, that's why JK Rowling got into this huge thing too, is that the man boxer who changed to be women and then he beat up all the female competitors, so no one won the box... The female champion for boxing was a man. Basically, so he excludes and actually, you know, denied the actual, the natural women. I understand, but I'm still trying to figure out why homosexuality would cause society to decline."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Could it be that when society is arising, there's like a natural order and a natural law that everyone follows, but when the society is falling, it's like... I can't remember who it was, but I remember hearing someone once say that, like, homosexuality is the ultimate act of contrarianism and it's like when you start rejecting all of the sort of natural laws. So it's not really just about the homosexuality, it's that if you adopt this mindset where there is no natural law, it will extend into basically the breakdown of morality."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "But so, so why is there this breakdown of natural law? Why do people not follow natural law? Yeah, go ahead."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "Actually, I don't think homosexuality means that they're embracing everything and openness. I think it actually means the opposite. There's a book called The Closing of American Mind, which is basically saying if you open and, like, embrace every culture, in the end, you're not, you're actually, like, exclusion."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "I would like to say from Dan's perspective, he regards, like, homosexuality is a bad thing for society. I would say, maybe, it's, I mean, homosexuality obeys the law that God gave us. So, like, for example, initially, when the world has been created, why we have two genders, like, male and female? That means there is naturally, that there should be attraction between male and female to make sure we're kind of alive, and the civilization could be continued, right? So if people are homosexual, they are kind of, they want this natural law that's given by the God to precede, you know?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, let me ask you this question, okay? Let me ask you this question. Homosexuality today is celebrated. Homosexuality before was persecuted. Did the percentage of homosexuals, homosexuals in society, did it go up or down?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Down."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "I think it's pretty similar, okay, do you understand? There were lots of homosexualities before. It's, yes? So I have a, I have a few comments."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "First of all, I think, metaphorically, homosexuality can be described as violence against love. It's physical, in the sense that, it's not celestial, it's not emotional, but it's, it's physical. That's why, we need not only celestial love, but also fleshly love. And that's, that's a divine order. And in that sense, homosexuality, homosexuality is a rejection of the female appeal and also the order of love on the, on the flesh, on the physical level. But I agree with some of the comments that said, homosexuality is, is as bad as, as bad as incest in, in causing more inclusion, exclusion, because from the genetic point of view, although I do have some reservation about genetics, from genetic point of view, homosexuality actually results in the, in the, in the distribution of the wealth from the elite, more to the, for the people who can procreate. And if the elite choose not to engage in, you know, bisexual sex, then it will cause more, you know, fair distribution."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Whereas incest is the, is the attempt for the elite to create, you know, to concentrate the wealth in, in more homogenous gene, which is bad for society."
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      "text": "Okay. All right. So let me ask you this question, okay? How does Donnie feel about the elite? What does he think about the elite, this nobility? How, how, how does he perceive the nobility, do you think?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Entitled?"
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      "text": "Yeah, they're entitled. Are they a good thing or a bad thing?"
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      "text": "Of, of course a bad thing."
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      "text": "They're a bad thing. So, so what is, so what do you do with them? Get rid of them? What would you do?"
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      "text": "You, you try to make them humble again. You make,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "but like, how do you make them humble? Okay. Okay guys. I like, like, like, like, I, I don't want to spend too much time on this. Okay. So let's get on this. Okay. First of all, how does Donnie feel about the nobility? And then the question then is, I want to focus on is, why is it when societies on the rise, there's less homo, homosexuality, but when societies are in the, are in decline, there's more homosexuality. What I mean, what I mean by, I mean like, like there's more open outward homosexuality, right? The percentage, that's why I say the same, right? But as societies are on the rise, the elite, they would not practice their homosexuality in open, right? They hide it. They, they would hide it. They would still get married, have children. What's the difference? Yes, you, you, then you."
    },
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      "text": "I think there's two things. First, it's about needs. Once you have like everything you need, then you try to seek something else. So when a society has access to food protection and et cetera, you try to engage in something new. That could be homosexuality. And also it could be due to dating aspect because it's, if a society is very well constructed and becomes very competitive, then you have a really low chance to access to the 1%, 5%, 5 % above. And so you just engage in your own gender."
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      "text": "Okay. Yes. You. Yeah, I agree. And I think it just refers to the aspect of hope in a declining society. If you don't have kids as a homosexual, then you say that you don't have hope in the future. Okay."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay."
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      "text": "All right."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "So, so, so, so, so I want to change your question. Okay. Okay. Okay. Imagine you're at Yale. Okay. You're a freshman at Yale. Okay. And you know the answer. So, so, so you and I won't participate. Okay. But imagine you're at Yale or Harvard or Princeton. And in 1960s, you go into Yale and the president is addressing you, right? What is he going to say to you? You're saying you're at Yale to do what? In 1960s or seventies or eighties or nineties? Exactly. Right. Change the world. Better humanity. Service humanity. Right? Today, when you're at Yale, Harvard or Princeton, the president says what to you? If you're at university, you know the answer. What's the answer? Be yourself. Be yourself. Your identity is what matters. Right? Am I wrong here? Be yourself. Celebrate yourself. That's why society declines. Do you understand? That's why society declines. That's why homosexuality is a problem. That's why homosexuality is a problem."
    },
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      "text": "Because it's not the act itself. It's the attitude. Like be yourself. Indulge yourself. Love yourself. Don't worry about other people. Don't worry about your responsibility to society. Don't try to change the world for better. Just celebrate yourself and be happy. And if you're, and if you're not happy, complain about it. Celebrate yourself. Am I wrong?"
    },
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      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Okay."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. That's what Don is saying here. He's saying that homosexuality, like incest, it represents a, like an inward churning, right? A narcissism that is extreme. So yeah."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Yes. So does he say that it's not real love? No. No. You can't love yourself. Or the other men."
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      "text": "No, but, but like what he's saying is like when you love other men, what you're really doing is loving yourself. It's a narcissism, right? Because narcissists saw himself in the mirror and he wanted to like have sex with him himself. That's what homosexuality is. It's narcissists having sex with, with, with, with himself. And I'm not saying that's right, but I'm just saying like, like this is how Dante perceives this. Okay. All right. Yes."
    },
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      "text": "Why is Dante neglecting the narcissist aspect in heterosexuality? Because like, as we see today, there are people who focus on looks. To attract women. And so just putting out the narcissistic, narcissistic aspect in homosexuality would be neglecting the, this aspect in the other side."
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      "text": "Right. Yes. Okay. That's a really interesting question. And unfortunately in hell, we don't have narcissism as a sin. Why not? Okay. The answer is. At this time in history, what Dante is trying to do is he's trying to, he's trying to change the idea of the ego, right? So the Catholic church is teaching, teaching you that ego is bad self self -love self -love doesn't it's a worse sin with the worst evil, right? And what Don is saying is that if that's your attitude, you can't actually go and change the world for the better. You have to believe that you are so good. God loves you so much that you. You will have the power to change the world for the better. Okay. And, and that's why the three sins, sorry, there are two sins, envy and pride. He actually doesn't list in inferno. He will listen to purgatory, but not inferno. Okay. So, so,"
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      "text": "so that, so that's what Donnie is trying to do. He is trying to tell us that self -love is a good thing, but self -love as expressed with. Okay. Other man is a bad thing. Okay. Because it's self -indulgent. Okay. So homosexuality by itself is not bad. The act isn't bad, but the attitude of it is bad, which is like, like all I care about is myself. I'm loving myself. I'm celebrating myself. That's the issue. Okay. Does that make sense? All right. All right. So, um, I make this comment, right? And so what Don is saying is that nobility is not good or bad. It's how the ability behaves. That's good or bad. Right. If society is paving towards betterment of society, then they're good. But if there are behaving like narcissists, that's bad. Okay. That can only mean the destruction of society because at this point in history, it is not possible to imagine a society without nobility."
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      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0356",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10237s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0356",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0356",
      "start": 10237.87,
      "end": 10292.27,
      "time_label": "2:50:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Right. It's you can't have communism. No one's going to imagine communism at this point and think about how unfair that would be. Right. This family has spent generations, um, creating all this wealth and you just take it from them. They, so, so, but it would never suggest that what he's, what he's, what he's suggesting is that nobility have a distinct responsibility to the rest of society to contribute. Okay. And when they engage in homosexuality, it just shows that they have a better society. Okay. They don't even care about hypocrisy anymore. They can't even bother to, uh, demonstrate propriety and, um, uh, leadership to everyone else. Okay. Does that make sense? Okay. So to confirm that what I'm saying is correct, what we're going to do is we're going to read Paradiso 16. Okay. So Dante has an amazing way of marrying himself, creating symmetry. So we are in, we were in front of 16."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0357",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10292s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0357",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0357",
      "start": 10292.71,
      "end": 10318.43,
      "time_label": "2:51:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "We're not going to jump to Paradiso 16 where, um, Dante is going to talk to his great grandfather and his great grandfather is going to share the story of his family and the story of Florence. Okay. So this is the early days of Florence when the elite working hard to build a greater Florence and you can compare contrast these two contos. Okay. So, so, so let's read Paradiso 16."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0358",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10320s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0358",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0358",
      "start": 10320.74,
      "end": 10375.113,
      "time_label": "2:52:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Paradiso Canto 16. If here below where sentiment is far too weak to withstand error, I should see men glorying in you. Nobility of blood, a meager thing. I should not wonder for even where desire is not awry, I mean in heaven I too felt such pride. You're indeed a cloak that soon wears out so that if day by day we add no patch, then circling time will trim you with its shears. My speech began again with you, the word that Rome was the first city to allow, although her people seldom speak it now. At this word Beatrice, somewhat apart, smiling, seemed like the woman who had coughed. So goes the tale at Guinevere's first fault. So did my speech begin. You're my father. You heartened me to speak with confidence. You raised me. Tell me so that I am more than I. So many streams have filled my mind with gladness, so many and such gladness that mine must rejoice that it can bear this and not burst."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0359",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10375s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0359",
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      "start": 10375.113,
      "end": 10426.05,
      "time_label": "2:52:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Then tell me, founder of my family, who were your ancestors and in your boyhood what were the years or records registered? And tell me of the sheepfold of St. John, how numerous it was, who in that flock were worthy of the highest offices. As at the breathing of the winds a coal will quicken into flame, so I saw that light glow at words that were affectionate. And as before my eyes it grew more fair, so with a voice more gentle and more sweet not in our modern speech it set to me. Down from that day when Ave was pronounced until my mother, blessed now by giving birth, eased the burden borne in bearing me. This fire of Mars had come 550 and 30 more times to its lion, there to be rekindled underneath its paw. My ancestors and I were born just where the runner in your early games first comes upon the boundary of the final ward."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0360",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10426s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0360",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0360",
      "start": 10426.05,
      "end": 10484.09,
      "time_label": "2:53:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "That is enough concerning my forbears. What were their names from where they came if that silence not speech is more appropriate? All those who at that time between the Baptist and Mars were capable of bearing arms numbered one -fifth of those who live there now. But then the citizens, now mixed with Compi, with the Ciotaldo, and with the Figlini, were pure down to the humblest artisan. Oh, it would be far better if you had those whom I mention as your neighbors. And your boundaries at Galluzzo and Trespiano, than to have them within, to bear the stench of Agiglione's wretch and Signia's wretch, whose sharp eyes now on baritory are set. If those who in the world go most astray had not seen Caesar with stepmother's eyes, but like a mother to her son been kind, the one who has become a Florentine trader and money changer would have stayed in Semifonte, where his fathers peddled."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0361",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10485s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0361",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0361",
      "start": 10485.94,
      "end": 10544.75,
      "time_label": "2:54:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "The Counts would still be lords of Montemurlo, the Cerchi would be in Ocone's parish, perhaps the Buonamante in Val di Greve. The mingling of the populations led to evil in the city, even as food piled on food destroys the body's health. The blind bull falls more quickly, more headlong than does the blind lamb, and the one blade can often cut more and better than five swords. Consider Luni, Ubisalia, how they went to ruin. See? Senigallia follows, and Chiusi, too, will soon have vanished. Then, if you should hear of families undone, you will find nothing strange or difficult in that, since even cities meet their end. All things that you possess possess their death, just as you do, but in some things that last long, death can hide from you whose lives are short. And even as the heaven of the moon, revolving, respite -less, conceals and then reveals the shores, so fortune does with Florence."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0362",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10545s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0362",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0362",
      "start": 10545.45,
      "end": 10604.083,
      "time_label": "2:55:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Therefore, there is no cause. There is no cause for wonder in what I shall tell of noble Florentines, of those whose reputations time has hidden. I saw the Ugi, saw the Catalini, Filippi, Greci, Armani, Alberici, famed citizens already in decline, and saw, as great as they were venerable, Delarca with Della Sonnella and Ardinghi, Sodanieri and Bostichi, nearby the gate that now is burdened with new treachery that weighs so heavily that it will bring the vessel to ship. There were the Raveniani, from whose line Count Guido comes, and all who since derived their name from the illustrious Bellaccioni. And Della Presa knew already how to rule, and Galeaio, in his house, already had the gilded hilt and pommel. The stripe of Vaire had mightiness already, as did the Giochi Galli and Berrucci, Fafantini, Zacchetti and those who blush for the bushel."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0363",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10604s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0363",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0363",
      "start": 10604.083,
      "end": 10660.037,
      "time_label": "2:56:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "And the stock from which sprang from Calfuco. And the stock from which sprang from Calfuco. The stock from which sprang from Calfuco. Gute was already mighty, and Sizi and Aregucci were already raised to high office. Oh, how great were those I saw, whom pride laid low, and the gold balls in all of her great actions flowered Florence. Such were the ancestors of those who now, whenever bishop sees are vacant, grow fat as they sit in church consistories. The breed so arrogant and dragon -like in chasing him who flees, but lamb -like, meek to him who shows his teeth. or else his purse was on the rise already, but of stock so mean that Ubertin Donato, when his father -in -law made him kin to them, was scarcely pleased. Already Caponsaco had come from Fiesole down to the market. Already citizens of note were Giuda and Infant Gato. I shall tell a thing incredible and true."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0364",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10660s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0364",
      "start": 10660.037,
      "end": 10725.47,
      "time_label": "2:57:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "The gateway through the inner walls were named for the Della Pera. All those whose arms bear part of the fair ensign of the great baron, he whose memory and worth are honored on the feast of Thomas, received knighthood and privilege from him. Those he whose coat of arms has fringed that ensign has taken sides now with the populace. The Gualterati and the Importuni were there already, where the Borgo spared new neighbors. It would still be tranquil there. The house of Amadei, with which your sorrows, both began by reason of its just resentment, which ruined you and ended years of gladness, were honored then as were its close companions. A Buondamante through another's counsel, you fled your wedding pledge and brought such evil. Many would now rejoice, who still lament if when you first approached the city, God had given you unto the river Emma. But Florence, in her final peace, was fated to offer up unto that mutilated stone guardian upon her bridge."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0365",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=10725s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0365",
      "start": 10725.77,
      "end": 10744.29,
      "time_label": "2:58:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "A victim, these were the families and others with them. The Florence that I saw in such repose that there was nothing to have caused her sorrow. These were the families with them I saw her people so acclaimed and just that on her staff the lily never was reversed, nor was it made blood red by factious hatred."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 10744.75,
      "end": 10772.81,
      "time_label": "2:59:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so here Donny's great -grandfather is recounting the glory of Florence and explaining why Florence ultimately declined. Okay, so for the great -grandfather, what's the main reason why Florence declined? If you talk to any old person, okay, it's always this reason. What is it? What led to the decline of Florence?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
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      "start": 10775.12,
      "end": 10776.16,
      "time_label": "2:59:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Excess and arrogance?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 10776.98,
      "end": 10786.14,
      "time_label": "2:59:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "No, no. Maybe that's Dante, but here it's different. This is the great -grandfather and he's like, this is why Florence went down. Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0369",
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      "start": 10787.42,
      "end": 10790.78,
      "time_label": "2:59:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "People's greed towards materials. It wasn't like money."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 10791.1,
      "end": 10794.87,
      "time_label": "2:59:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah, but where did that come from? Where did this materialism come from?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0371",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0371",
      "start": 10795.03,
      "end": 10795.75,
      "time_label": "2:59:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Chase for power?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 10797.11,
      "end": 10798.35,
      "time_label": "2:59:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "What caused, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "start": 10799.53,
      "end": 10800.27,
      "time_label": "2:59:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Factious hatred?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "text": "No, what's causing this materialism? What's causing this hatred? Come on. I mean, like you just talk to your grandparents, right? And like your grandparents are like, yeah, before this was a great neighborhood, but then what happened? Before this was a lovely neighborhood and everyone got along great, but then?"
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      "text": "Maybe something about the young people? No, what happened, guys?"
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      "text": "Maybe people became selfish?"
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      "text": "No. Someone new came into the neighborhood."
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      "text": "Immigrants!"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Goddamn immigrants! Again, this is not a political correct class, okay? Why is immigration bad? Why is immigration bad?"
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      "text": "It puts into conflict people with different cultures."
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      "text": "Okay, yes, it creates a cultural clash, yes. What else?"
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      "text": "Because the values you hold is different."
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      "text": "Exactly, okay? Your values change. Before, these old families were dedicated to helping other people around them, helping their neighbors. But when you have people with so many values come in, like, that are different from yours, what's your only solution to this problem of immigration?"
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      "text": "Like, exclude them so you have your own communities?"
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      "text": "Okay, so exclusion, but I'm saying, how do you unite the entire city? For what? To be more conservative. No, the old people, yes."
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      "text": "Assimilation, maybe?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "But how do you assimilate them?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Oh, your stuff is cool, too. We accept everything. Like, everything is cool. We are soluble."
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      "text": "So, materialism? Money. Do you understand? If you have immigrants come in, everyone shares different values, the only value that you have to create, to unify society is money, right? And money leads to the separation of selfishness, right? That's why you can't no longer be, change the world, because that's Western imperialism. It has to be, be yourself. Separate yourself, okay? And how do you do that? Go make a lot of money. So, this is a pattern throughout human history, okay? You think that, oh, look, isn't it great that if you work hard, you can be a trillionaire? No, it's not. I mean, how about contributing to your community? How about working hard to create families? How about making a safe and moral society? Right? But you're not taught that. You're taught, just go make a lot of money, and be yourself, and celebrate yourself. And if you want to be gay, great. Okay? Does that make sense?"
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      "text": "All right? So, again, again, this is not politically correct, okay? But again, we're trying to examine why societies decline, and so you have, Don is saying, you have immigrants, you have homosexuality, you have factionalism, you have economic pressure, okay? And are they true today? Yeah, they're very much true today. So, according to Dante, we are very much a society in decline. Does anyone want to argue against this? Like, I don't want to be seen as brainwashing you, okay? Do you want to argue against this? Yes, thank you."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Well, with immigration, I want to point out that, for example, with World War II in Europe, when many people were persecuted, they came to see the United States as the promised land and where you won't be persecuted. So, a lot of the best scientists and intellectuals and whoever it is went to America. So, you know, immigration can create kind of more vibrancy in society. Sure."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah, that's a great argument. Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "The population decline. So, like, you bring people because your culture doesn't make enough children to finance your society."
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      "text": "Yeah, but why is your population declining?"
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      "text": "I don't know. No, you do know why population is declining. It's because? It's too expensive. People make less kids. Well, come on, man."
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      "text": "It's a lack of social mobility. Yeah, lack of social mobility, homosexuality, narcissism. Okay, do you understand? So, published decline is a symptom of society decline and immigration is just a short -term remedy. It's not a long -term solution. Yes?"
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      "text": "Population could also decline because the cost of raising a child is increased."
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      "text": "Yeah, exactly. But that's also a society decline, right? Where you can't even, where young people can no longer afford to have families. Okay. Yes?"
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      "text": "Maybe because people just do not believe in God because they believe in money and money can help themselves, right?"
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      "text": "Yeah, the lack of religion, right? Okay. Okay. But I'm saying, like, argue against staunter, okay? And what Carol says is, yeah, but immigration allows for more vibrancy, allows for more creativity, right? And also, like, if you don't let an immigrant, society is going to decline even further, even faster. Yes? Anyone else to argue against this?"
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      "text": "In more developed economies, immigrant workers are often a cheaper source of labor."
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      "text": "But is that a good thing? Like, you know, let's bring in poor people to exploit."
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      "text": "To exploit them."
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      "text": "I mean, really?"
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      "text": "I mean, for the capitalists, it's a good thing."
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      "text": "Right. I'm sure it is. Any other arguments against this? Yes?"
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      "text": "I think it helps with unity in the world because, like, if every culture is represented in every country, then it, it creates unity and we all move together towards one path."
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      "text": "Exactly. So you look at the World Cup, right? America right now is hosting the World Cup. You go to every stadium, it's packed with different cultures and they're all celebrating together. Right. So multiculturalism, sure. What else? Yes?"
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      "text": "Yeah, like multiculturalism kind of brings you different perspectives so that you can actually debate between values. You kind of examine truth from different lenses and perspectives. So it gives you, maybe it might get you closer to the truth. So that's why I think the Pope actually last month met with the Muslim leader. So the two of them had a talk. So it's like be more embracing of a different religion, culture, perspective. Right. Okay."
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      "text": "So it makes everyone much more tolerant, right? Much more open. That's great. Okay. So that's all great. But how to explain to Dante the lack of creativity in our world today? Why is it in today's world no one is able to write the Divine Comedy? I actually can't remember the last good book I read or the last good movie I saw. I literally cannot."
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      "text": "Yes? For our needs and we stop suffering and so we don't need to engage in anything difficult. Also because of technology, everything is simple for us and so it's just, we have nothing to talk about or no energy that can make us create new stuff. Okay. You're absolutely right. Yes?"
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      "text": "I think people right now are too material and not spiritual enough."
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      "text": "Yeah, but why would that lead to a decline in creativity? Right? Because in theory, if you can make a trillion dollars writing a Divine Comedy, why don't you go write it? Right?"
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      "text": "Yes? People lost their love. People are hopeless and they just care about their job, about money, but not about spiritual things."
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      "text": "Yeah, yeah. People have, yes, go ahead. I think I want to add on to that because people are not only too materialistic, they're also like, we haven't been this spiritually away from ourselves, from our inner world. I mean, this is the, we've never been like this because you see all the religions and all the Buddhism, all that thing, dating back in thousands years ago, but now like I don't, it's a small portion of the society will still talk about this, I think."
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      "text": "Right, exactly. Okay, so this is really interesting because if Dante were to come today, look at our world, he'd be like, this is a lot worse than my world, man. Because regardless of how bad things were back then, at least they had roots, right? At least they had family and community, a sense of like each other. Whereas today we are all rootless, right? We have no history. We have no culture. We have no tradition. If you say these things, then they'll say you're racist or you're a bigot. Okay, I mean, right? Okay, so it makes you really think about what is really valuable in society. Okay, so let's go to Canto 17, please."
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      "time_label": "3:09:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Canto 17. Behold the beast who bears the pointed tail, who crosses mountains, shatters weapons walls. Behold the one whose stench fills all the world. So did my guide begin to speak to me, and then he signaled him to come ashore close to the end. To the end of those stone passageways. And he came on that filthy effigy of fraud and landed with his head and torso, but did not draw his tail onto the bank. The face he wore was that of a just man. So gracious was his features, outer semblance, and all his trunk, the body of a serpent. He had two paws with hair up to the armpits, his back and chest, as well as both his flanks had been adorned with twining knots and circlets. No Turks or Tartars ever fashioned fabrics more colorful in background and relief, nor had Arachne ever loomed such webs. As boats will sometimes lie along the shore"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0418",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11428s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0418",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0418",
      "start": 11428.02,
      "end": 11477.08,
      "time_label": "3:10:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "with part of them on land and part in water, and just as there among the guzzling Germans, the beaver sets himself when he means war. So did that squalid beast lie on the margin of stone that serves as border for the sand. And all his tail was quivering in the void while twisting upward an envenomed fork, which had a tip just like a scorpion's. My guide said, now we'd better bend our path a little, till we reach as far as that malicious beast which crouches over there. Thus we descended on the right -hand side and moved ten paces on the stony brink in order to avoid the sand and fire. When we had reached the sprawling beast, I saw a little father on upon the sand, some sinner sitting near the fissured rock. And here my master said to me, so that you may experience this ring in full, go now and see the state in which they are."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0419",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11477s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0419",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0419",
      "start": 11477.22,
      "end": 11534.15,
      "time_label": "3:11:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "But keep your conversation with them brief. Till you return, I'll parley with these beasts to see if he can lend us his strong shoulders. So I went on alone and even farther along the seven circles outer margin to where the melancholy people sat. Despondency was bursting from their eyes, the sight that their hands kept fending off at times the flames, at times the burning soil. Not otherwise do dogs in summer, now with muzzle, now with paw, when they're bitten by fleas or gnats or by the sharp gadfly. When I had set my eyes upon the faces of some on whom that painful fire falls, I recognized no one. But I did notice that from the neck of each a purse was hung that had a special color and an emblem. And their eyes seemed to feast upon these pouches. Looking about when I had come among them, I saw a yellow purse with azure on it that had the face and manner of a lion."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0420",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11534s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0420",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0420",
      "start": 11534.67,
      "end": 11585.268,
      "time_label": "3:12:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Then as I let my eyes move farther on, I saw another purse that was blood red and it displaced a goose more whiter than butter. And one who had an azure pregnant sow inscribed as emblem on his white pouch said to me, What are you doing in this pit? Now you be off, and since you're still alive, remember that my neighbor, Battagliano, shall yet sit here upon my left -hand side. Among these Florentines, I'm Paduan. I often hear them thunder in my ears, shouting, Now let the sovereign cavalier, the one who'll bring the purse home, with three goats come. At this he slewed his mouth, and then he stuck his tongue out like an ox that licks its nose. And I, afraid that any longer stay, might anger him who'd warned me to be brief, made me back from those exhausted souls."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0421",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11585s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0421",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0421",
      "start": 11585.268,
      "end": 11637.05,
      "time_label": "3:13:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "I found my guide, who had already climbed upon the back of that brute animal, and he told me, Be strong and daring now, for our descent is by this kind of stairs you mounted from I want to be between, so that the tail can't do you any harm. As one who feels the cord and fever near and shivers with his nails already blue, the sight of shade enough to make him shudder. So I became when I had heard these words, but then I felt the threat of shame which makes a servant in his kind lord's presence brave. I settled down on those enormous shoulders, I wished to say, and yet my voice did not come as I thought. See that you hold me tight, but he who other times in other dangers sustained me, just as soon as I had mounted, clasped me within his arms and propped me up and said, Now Geryon,"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0422",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11637s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0422",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0422",
      "start": 11637.11,
      "end": 11694.1,
      "time_label": "3:13:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "move on, take care to keep your circles wide, your landing slow, remember the new weight you're carrying. Just like a boat that starting from its moorings moves backward, backward, so that beast took off and when he felt himself completely clear, he turned his tail to where his chest had been and having stretched it, moved it like an eel and with his paws he gathered in the air. I do not think that there was greater fear in Phaethon when he let his reins go free for which the sky as one still sees was scorched, nor in poor Icarus when he could feel his sides unwinged because the wax was melting, his father shouting to me, That was wrong, then was in me when on all sides I saw that I was in the air and everything had faded from my sight except the beast. Slowly, slowly swimming, he moves on, he wheels and he descends, but I feel only the wind upon my face and the wind rising."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0423",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11695s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0423",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0423",
      "start": 11695.75,
      "end": 11746.21,
      "time_label": "3:14:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Already on our right, I heard the torrent resounding there beneath us horribly so that I stretched my neck and looked below. Then I was more afraid of falling off for I saw fires and I heard laments at which I tremble, crouching and hold fast. And now I saw what I had missed before, his wheeling and descent because great torments were drawing closer to us on all sides. Just as a falcon long upon the wing whose seeing neither lure nor bird compels the falconer to cry, On me you fall, descends exhausted in a hundred circles where he had once been swift and sets himself embittered and enraged far from his master. Such at the bottom of the jagged rock was Gurion when he had set us down and once our weight was lifted from his back he vanished like an arrow from a bow."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0424",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11746s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0424",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0424",
      "start": 11746.21,
      "end": 11814.55,
      "time_label": "3:15:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so two points. The first point is that to descend from the circle of violence, the circle of fraud, okay, and quite honestly, the circle of fraud will occupy about a third of the Divine Comedy. We're in canto 17, there's 34 cantos in Inferno, we're halfway through. So most of the time we'll actually spend in the circle of fraud as well as the circle of treachery. What takes them down to the circle is a beast called a Gurion. The Gurion has the face of an honest man, a very good -looking man that you trust, but it has the tail of a scorpion, okay? So it can sting you at any time. So that's what fraud is, okay? Fraud seduces you into doing something and then stings you, okay? That's the first point. Second point is that while Virgil is taming the Gurion, Dante is looking around and he meets these moneylenders who are buried in the sand."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0425",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11814s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0425",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0425",
      "start": 11814.75,
      "end": 11857.33,
      "time_label": "3:16:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "What traps them in the ground are these purses of money, right? So this is a fitting punishment because in life they trapped or they enslaved others with debt, right? With interest. So they're getting a taste of their own medicine and that's what hell is. The pain that you cause unto others, you yourself will feel for all of eternity, okay? All right, so let's... Any questions before we move on? Are we clear? Okay, so that's circle of violence. Now we descend to the circle of fraud, which is the majority of the Divine Comedy, okay? Inferno 18."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0426",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11862s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0426",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0426",
      "start": 11862.97,
      "end": 11868.26,
      "time_label": "3:17:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Inferno Canto 18. There is a place in hell called Malibolge."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
      "date_label": "2026-06-23, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0427",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11868s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0427",
      "start": 11868.26,
      "end": 11876.42,
      "time_label": "3:17:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "So Malibolge is the name of the circle, okay? The circle of fraud. And there are different ditches for different frauds, okay?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0428",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11876s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0428",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0428",
      "start": 11876.82,
      "end": 11930.7,
      "time_label": "3:17:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Made all of stone the color of crude iron as is the wall that makes its way around it. Right in the middle of this evil field is an abyss, a broad and yawning pit whose structure I shall tell in its due place. The belt that extends between the pit and that hard, steep wall's base is circular. Its bottom has been split into ten valleys. Just as where moat on moat surrounds a castle in order to keep guard upon the walls, the ground they occupy will form a pattern. So did the valleys here form a design and as such fortresses have bridges running right from their thresholds toward the outer bank. So here across the banks and ditches ridges ran from the base of that rock wall until the pit that cuts them short and joins them all. This was the place in which we found ourselves when Geryon had put us down The poet held to the left and I walked at his back."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0429",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11931s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0429",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0429",
      "start": 11931.12,
      "end": 11987.71,
      "time_label": "3:18:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Upon the right I saw new misery, I saw new tortures and new torturers filling the first of Malabolge's moats. Along its bottom naked sinners moved to our side of the middle facing us beyond that they moved with us but more quickly. As in the year of Jubilee, the Romans, confronted by great crowds, contrived a plan that let the people pass across the bridge. For to one side went all who had their eyes upon the castle heading toward St. Peter's and to the other those who faced the mount. Both left and right along the somber rock I saw horned demons with enormous whips who lashed those spirits cruelly from behind. Ah, how their first strokes made those sinners lift their heels! Indeed, no sinner waited for a second stroke to fall before a third. And as I moved ahead my eyes met those of someone else and suddenly I said, I was not spared the sight of him before."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0430",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=11989s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0430",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0430",
      "start": 11989.39,
      "end": 12042.61,
      "time_label": "3:19:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "And so I stayed my steps to study him. My gentle guide had stopped together with me and gave me leave to take a few steps back. That scourged soul thought that he could hide himself by lowering his face. It helped him little, for I said, You, who cast your eyes upon the ground if these your features are not false, must be Venedico, caccia nemico. But what brings you to sauces so piquant? And he to me, I speak unwillingly, but your plain speech that brings the memory of the old world to me is what compels me. For it was I who led Ghisolabella to do as the Marquis would have her do. However, they retell that filthy tale. I'm not the Bolognese who weeps here. Indeed, this place is so crammed full of us that not so many tongues have learned to say Sipa between the Savanna and Renno."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "collection": "episodes",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0431",
      "start": 12043.23,
      "end": 12058.22,
      "time_label": "3:20:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "If you want faith and testament of that, just call to mind our aphoricious hearts. And as he spoke, a demon cudgelled him with his horse whip and cried, Be off, you pimp. There are no women here for you to trick. I joined..."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0432",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=12058s",
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      "start": 12058.22,
      "end": 12081,
      "time_label": "3:20:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay, so these are pimps, right? These are people who've sold their sisters or others to wealthy men. And Venedico is one of them. And for their punishment, they're being whooped around by demons, okay? Which is what they did in real life to their sisters or to their daughters. Or they're just pimps. Okay, keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-23",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss/transcript/#seg-0433",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82v6UAc9ss&t=12085s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss@transcript:v1#seg-0433",
      "start": 12085.48,
      "end": 12135.9,
      "time_label": "3:21:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 67. I joined my escort once again, and then with but few steps, we came upon place where from the bank a rocky ridge ran out. We climbed quite easily along that height, and turning right upon its jagged back, we took our leave of those eternal circlings. When we had reached the point where that ridge opens below to leave a passage for the last, my guide said, Stay and make sure that the sight of still more ill -born spirits strikes your eyes, for you have not yet seen their faces since they have been moving in our own direction. From the old bridge, we looked down at the ranks of those approaching from the other side. They, too, were driven onward by the lash. And my good master, though I had not asked, urged me, Look at that mighty one who comes and does not seem to shed a tear of pain. How he still keeps the image of a king."
    },
    {
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      "text": "That shade is Jason, who with heart and head deprived the men of Colchis of their ram. He made a landfall on the Isle of Lemnos after its women, bold and pitiless, had given all their island males to death. With polished words and love signs, he took in Hysippoli, the girl whose own deception had earlier deceived the other women. And he abandoned her, alone and pregnant. Such guilt condemns him to such punishment. And for Medea, too, revenge is taken. With him go those who cheated so. This is enough for you to know of that first valley and of the souls it clamps within his jaws."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Does anyone know the story of Jason and Medea? Jason and Medea. Jason is of the Argonauts, right? And with Medea's help, he is able to retrieve the golden fleece. So he takes Medea home to Greece. They marry together. They have children together. But then in order for Jason to climb even higher, he marries a princess and betrays Medea. So what does Medea do? Do you guys know the story? Can you guys guess what she does?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Did she kill her kids?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah, she killed her kids. Yeah. I mean, Greek tragedy. It's such a... Yeah, but she killed her two young kids as to avenge her betrayal. Okay. All right. So, yeah. Okay. Keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Line 100. We were already where the narrow path reaches and intersects the second bank and serves as shoulder for another bridge. We heard the people whine in the next pouch and hurt them as they snorted with their snouts. We heard them use their palms to beat themselves. And exhalations rising from above stuck to the banks, encrusting them with mold. And so waged war against both eyes and nose. The bottom is so deep, we found no spot to see it from except by climbing up the arch until the bridge's highest point. This was the place we reached. The ditch beneath held people plunged in excrement that seemed as if it had been poured from human privies. And while my eyes searched that abysmal sight, I saw one with a head so smeared with shit, I could not see if he were lay or cleric."
    },
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      "text": "Okay. So let's fill this, okay? What do you do in real life that will warrant you basically awash in shit for all of eternity? You're just basically swimming in shit, drowning in shit for all of eternity. What did you do in life? What was your problem? Anyone? We have the punishment, right? Which is you just, you know, swim in shit. You're... What did you do in real life to warrant this?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Like, shit other people? Like, put other people in such a situation? So..."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "No. I mean... Sure. Bullshit, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right? Flattery. Bullshit. Yes. You're just BS -ing other people all the time, okay? So now you're just drowning in it. All right. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "118. He howled. Why do you stare more greedily at me than at the others who are filthy and I? Because if I remember right, I have seen you before with your hair dry, and so I awe you more than all. You are Alessio Intermine of Lucca, then he continued pounding on his pate. I'm plunged here because of flatteries of which my tongue had such sufficiency, at which my guide advised me. See you thrust your head a little farther to the front so that your eyes can clearly glimpse the face of that besmirched, bedraggled haridan who scratched at herself with shit -filled nails. And now she crouches. Now she stands upright. That is Tyas, the harlot who returned her lover's question. Are you very grateful to me by saying, yes, enormously? And now our sight has had its fill of this."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. All right. So another major characteristic of a sighting in the client, of course, is fraud, right? Fraud. It's just like you can't trust each other anymore. Right? Is fraud an issue today? Yeah, it's a huge issue today. Okay? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Did you know that 80 % of all criminal cases in Hai Dian are internet fraud?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yes. Okay. The internet, right?"
    },
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      "start": 12436.88,
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      "time_label": "3:27:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "And now we have AI. We have deep fake. It's all done."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah, exactly. AI, right? So we live in a world of fraud. Like it's literally not impossible to tell what is fake news. Right? It's really hard. Okay? And it's really hard now to trust other people. And so this is also a symptom of a society in decline. Why is this a problem? Why is this a problem? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "A lot of wasted energy. Okay. People wasting their imagination defrauding people and people wasting their imagination trying not to get cheated."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yeah, it's impossible to work together. Do you understand? Right? It's impossible to make promises. It's impossible to make contracts. It's impossible to cooperate. It's impossible to cooperate anymore. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "text": "Canto 19. As Simon Magus, O his sad disciples, rapacious ones who take the things of God that ought to be the brides of righteousness and make them fornicate for gold and silver, the time has come to let the trumpet sound for you. Your place is here and in this third pouch. We had already reached the tomb beyond and climbed onto the ridge where its high point hangs just above the middle of the ditch. We had already reached the top of the church. O highest wisdom, how much art you show in heaven, earth, and this sad world below, how just your power is when it allots. Along the sides and down along the bottom, I saw that livid rock was perforated. The openings were all one width and round. They did not seem to me less broad or more than those in my handsome San Giovanni when were made to serve as basins for baptizing. And"
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      "text": "one of these not many years ago I broke for someone who was drowning in it and let this be my seal to set men straight. O highest wisdom, how much art you show Out from the mouth of each hole there emerged a sinner's feet and so much of his legs up to the thigh. The rest remained within. Both souls of every sinner were on fire. Their joints were writhing with such violence they would have severed withes and ropes of grass. As flame on oily things will only stir along the outer surface, so thereto that fire made its way from heels to toes. Master, I said, who is that shade who suffers and quivers more than all his other comrades, that sinner who is licked by redder flames? And he to me, if you would have me lead you down along the way, to the deepest of the banks, from him you will learn about his self and sins."
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      "text": "And I, what pleases you will please me too. You are my lord. You know I do not swerve from what you will. You know what is unspoken. At this we came upon the fourth embankment. We turned on keeping to the left, ascended into the narrow perforated bottom. My good lord did not let me leave his side until he brought me to the hole that held that sinner who lamented with his legs. The man would plant it like a pole. My words began, do speak if you are able. I stood as does the friar who confesses the foul assassin who fixed fast head down, calls back the friar and so delays his death. And he cried out, are you already standing, already standing there, O Boniface? The book has lied to me by several years. Are you so quickly sated with the riches for which you do not fear to take by guile the lovely lady than to violate her?"
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      "text": "And I became like those who stand as if they have been mocked who cannot understand what has been said to them and can't respond. But Virgil said, tell this to him at once. I am not he, not who you think I am. And I replied as I was told to do. At this the spirit twisted both his feet and sighing and with a despairing voice he said, what is it then you want of me? If you have crossed the bank and climbed so far to find out who I am then know that I was one of those who wore the mighty mantle and surely was the son of the she -bear so eager to advance the cubs that I pursued well above while here I purse myself. Below my head there is the place of those who took the way of simony before me and they are stuffed within the clefts of stone."
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      "text": "I too shall yield my place and fall below but I have baked my feet a longer time have stood like this upon my head than he to stand planted here with scarlet feet for after him when uglier in deeds will come a lawless shepherd from the west worthy to cover him and cover me he'll be a second Jason of whom we read in Maccabees and just as Jason's king was soft to him so shall the king of France be soft to this one and I do not know if I was too rash here I answered so then tell me now how much gold did our lord ask that Saint Peter give to him before he placed the keys within his care surely the only thing he said was follow me and Peter and the others never asked for gold or silver when they chose Matthias to take the place of"
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      "text": "the transgressing soul stay as you are for you're rightly punished and guard with care the money got by evil that made you so audacious against Charles and were it not that I am still prevented by reverence for those exalted keys that you had held within the happy life I'd utter words much heavier than these because your avarice afflicts the world it tramples on the good lifts up the wicked you shepherds the evangelist had noticed when he saw her who sits upon the waters and realized she fornicates with kings she who was born with seven heads and had the power of the ten horns as long as virtue was her husband's pleasure you've made yourselves the god of gold and silver how are you different from the idolaters save that they worship one and you a hundred ah Constantine what wickedness was born and not from your conversion from the dower that you bestowed upon the"
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      "text": "first rich father and while I sang such notes to him whether it was his indignation or his conscience I do indeed believe it pleased my guide he listened always with such satisfied expression to the sound of those true words and then he gathered me in both his arms and when he had me fast against his chest where he climbed down before climbed upward now nor did he tire of clasping me until he brought me to the summit of the arch that crosses from the fourth to the fifth rampart and here he gently set his burdens down gently a rugged pass for goats for there another valley lay before me"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "okay so this is um another one of Donny's um pirates against the church against church corruption okay so the crime the sin that is being punished here is simony okay what simony is is it's very common at this time for the church to sell holy relics to people and this was very profitable right because this is the biggest thing about it right it's the church so and a lot of this a lot of these relics were fake but even if they weren't fake you shouldn't do that right you shouldn't sell holy relics to the highest bidder what is the modern equivalent of simony"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "excuse me"
    },
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      "text": "selling offices selling offices well they did do that um back then as well okay so that's not the same but someone else selling simony yes um"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "maybe taxes taxes can you explain well um you pay taxes and in return the state promise you that you're safe and yeah you have a better life okay"
    },
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      "text": "so um simony is a crime the church even the church condones simony right because simony is named after simony magus who is the first heretic in the catholic church so simony is a bad thing they kept on doing it so i'm saying so in the in our modern world what would the equivalent be of simony"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "selling credentials excuse me credentials selling credentials yeah"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "that's a really good example right selling diplomas right and do universities engage in some diplomas oh legacies no no no no it's actually not just that how do universities engage in selling um credentials do you guys know you increase the tuition every year no"
    },
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      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "they receive"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "yeah they receive donations yes okay yeah right okay so donations um but also like um summer school continue education like there are lots of ways in which universities sell their credentials okay uh any other examples yes"
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      "text": "luxury items so like very expensive bags or like symbolic items which don't hold value actually right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "but so the idea of simony is corruption right you're just abusing your power and profiting from it so if you're a luxury goods uh retailer i mean that's not corruption right so it has to be like a trusted authority it could be university it could be government uh it could be the church okay anyone any other examples all right uh um that's fine let's yes"
    },
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      "text": "cryptocurrency"
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      "text": "excuse me"
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      "text": "cryptocurrency can you explain well right the holy relic is in itself well if if cap you know if the richest people on the in the world agree that something is of value and you assign value to it you give it an authority the rest of society would follow similar to the holy relic right i assigned this relic i don't know i don't know if that makes sense right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "yeah so i i think your example is the very best okay because uh what's the equivalent of the church today it's universities right they have the most authority they're the people who they they are the most trusted institution and the fact that you know you just you just give them a donation they're going to uh fast track your child um if you follow the news stanford there's a huge case in stanford about this right um there are lots of examples okay but again yeah we'll never do this so all right right okay let's let's go like uh inferno 20 okay"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "inferno canto 20 i must make verses of new punishment and offer matter now for canto 20 of this first canticle of the submerged i was already well prepared to stare below into the depth that was disclosed where tears of anguished sorrow bathed the ground in the valley circle i saw it i saw souls advancing mute and weeping at the pace that in our world holy processions take as i declined my head still more i saw that each amazingly appeared contorted between the chin and where the chest begins they had their faces twisted toward their haunches and found it necessary to walk backward because they could not see ahead of them"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "okay all right so this is funny okay but like the punishment is that the people walk around and their heads are twisted backwards so they they only see behind them what was their crime in life or is their sin what what what what do they do this is ironic right these are people who are going to look behind them fortune teller exactly right these are fortune tellers these are people who lie to you who defraud you and tell you that you that they could see into the future and they will give you their future and um as punishment they can only look backwards um okay keep on going"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "line 16 um perhaps the force of policy has so fully distorted some but that i've yet to see and i do not believe that that can be may god so let your reader gather fruit from what you read and now think for yourself how how i could ever keep my own face dry when i beheld my image so nearby and so awry that tears down from the eyes bathed the buttocks running down the cleft of course i wept leaning against a rock along that rugged ridge so that my guide told me are you as foolish foolish as the rest here pity only lives when it is dead for who can be more impious than he who links god's judgment to passivity lift lift your head and see the one for whom the earth was opened while the thebans watched so that they all cried and fieros where are you rushing have you quit the fight"
    },
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "start": 13264.81,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "nor did he interrupt his downward plunge to minos who lays hands on every sinner see how he's made a chest out of his shoulders and since he wanted so to see ahead he looks behind and walks a backward path and so teresias who changed his mien when from a man he turned into a woman so totally transforming all his limbs that then he had to strike once more upon the two entwining serpents with his wand before he had his manly plumes again and erins is the one who backs against the belly of teresias erins who in loony's hails tilled by the carerese who lived below had as his home a cave among white marbles from which he could gaze at stars and sea with unimpeded view and she covers up her breasts which you can't see with her disheveled locks who keeps all of her hairy parts to the far side was manto who had"
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      "start": 13324.18,
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      "time_label": "3:42:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "searched through many lands then settled in the place where i was born on this i'd have you hear me now a while when manto's father took his leaf of life and bacchus's city found itself enslaved she wandered through the world for many years high up in lovely italy beneath the elves that shut in germany above torolo lies a lake known as banaco a thousand springs and more i think must flow out of the waters of that lake to bathe panino guard of valcamonica and in its middle is a place where three the bishops of verona brescia trento may bless if they should chance to come that way peschiera strong and handsome fortress built to face the brescians and the bergamasts stands when the circling shore is at its lowest there all the waters that cannot be held within the bosom of banaco fall to form a river running through green meadows no sooner has that"
    },
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      "text": "stream begun to flow than it is called the mincio not banaco until governor where it joins the po it's not flowed far before it finds flat land and there it stretches out to form a fen that in the summer can at times be fed it and when she passed that way the savage virgin saw land along the middle of the swamp and tilled and stripped of its inhabitants and there to flee all human intercourse she halted with her slaves to ply her arts and there she lived there left her empty body and after what the people of those parts collected at that place because the marsh surrounding it on all sides made it strong they built a city over her dead bones and after her who first had picked that spot they called it mantua they cast there once were far more people in its walls before the foolishness of casolodi was tricked by the"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "deceit of pinamonte therefore i charge you if you ever hear a different tale of my town's origin do not let any falsehood gull the truth and i oh master that which you have spoken convinces me and so compels my trust that others words would only be spent coals but tell me if among the passing souls you see some spirits worthy of our notice because my mind is spent on that alone then he to me that shade who spreads his beard down from his cheeks across his swarthy shoulders when greece had been so emptied of its males that hardly any cradle held the sun he was an augur and at all this he and calcus at the time to cut the cables his name's euripolis a certain passage of my high tragedy has sung its soul you know that well enough who know the whole the other there his flanks extremely spare was michael scott a"
    },
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      "start": 13497.67,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "man who certainly knew how the game of magic fraud was played see there guido bonatti see astente who now would wish he had attended to his court and leather but propense too late see those sad women who had left their needle shuttle and spindle to become diviners they cast their spells with herbs and effigies but let us go cain with his thorns already is at the border of both hemispheres and there below sevilla torches touches the sea last night the moon was at its full you should be a will well aware of this but there were times when it did you know harm in the deep wood these were his words to me meanwhile we journeyed okay so this is about"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "the fortune tellers okay they are condemned to always walk with their uh head turned backwards so they can they can never see in front of them they're going to see behind them and dante spends a lot of time talking about all these uh fortune tellers and sages of integrity okay teresius is a really famous um fortune teller the most famous oracle in greek mythology uh the man who told or up um uh oedipus that he in fact did kill his father and slept with his mother okay tereseus why is donnie spending so much time on the fortune tellers what is this what is this problem with fortune tellers or oracles i mean isn't he an oracle sorry go ahead"
    },
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      "start": 13600.87,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "yeah i think that's why the bible speaks against all this kind of fortune telling is one of the biggest sins it's because you denied yourself a free will because once you have been given the oh or die or whatever and you're like oh you're gonna self -fulfill that prophecy so like whatever the fortune teller tells you kind of sets your path and you don't have the free will to live up your"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:47:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "life anymore okay that's one possibility right um just to deny you free will right because if if you remember the story of um oedipus rex right he was told uh his father was told uh your your son will kill you and marry your wife he became so afraid that he abandoned his son or had his he tried to have his son killed which then set in motion this prophecy okay and then when um uh oedipus was adopted by another royal family in his uh teenage years he he heard this prophecy and he ran away from his father which then completed the prophecy because on the on the on his way to uh thebes he would get in conflict with his father with the king his father and kill him and then he'd go and solve the riddle of the sphinx and then which would allow him to marry his mother okay and become king of"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "thebes so this um so that your free will right you can choose whatever you want it's hampered by these prophecies because then you're just a great a pawn in the game of the gods right okay like this prophecy is the idea like the gods want things a certain way and that's why they give you this prophecy in order to manipulate you into behaving the way that they want okay yes any other explanations for why he really done it really really doesn't like these fortune tellers he doesn't really like the idea of fortune telling uh yes if you're a big"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "fortune teller if you become a famous fortune teller the net effect is you using the total amount of imagination that that you know your your population or your kind the people that you preach to have right it's restricting the level of creativity imagination that god ultimately wants"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "to grow not shrink sure yes exactly and also a lot of these fortune tellers are doing for profit right they often do it to make money yes yeah because uh fortune tellers just keep telling you that"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "everything is fake it's fixed you can't change so it means that there's no fair rail and uh you can't just choose what you want and you just listen so some people may be against this and people some people agree with that but whatever you agree or disagree uh the fortune telling just try to uh you know disturb you and change you change your your your original will okay yes uh anyone else have"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "you guys did you remember um the book of um exodus when moses gets in a fight with the uh with the pharaoh and they have they have like this magic contest can you can you talk about that carol or"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "is it when they were leaving and so they had to against the ten gods of the pharaoh is that what it is before they leave uh yes of the gods yes okay so basically moses was like yeah israelites have to go out of egypt and the king of egypt was i know when i say for you free labor so then they put up the contest between the gods so there were the 10 plagues so each plague was against each god"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "the egyptians yes okay so there's actually quite a few of these contests in the bible okay the prophet to prove himself he must go to war with other fortune tellers with other diviners to prove that i am truly the messenger from heaven okay and to do that i want to show that every one of you is fake and false does it make sense so dante i mean there are many motivations but one major motivation is that dante is trying to prove that he is the ultimate prophet by showing that every other fortune teller is just a fraud okay does that make sense okay so"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:51:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "then let me ask yes it's a part in the passage where dante actually has a for me he has a kind of an unusual reaction he feels kind of sad looking at the the creatures with their head"
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      "text": "backwards right yes but but that's dante's reaction to everyone right it's like i pity this okay and it goes back to the idea of aristotle like why is it important to watch theater like why is it important to go to theater and why is theater yes you see the tragedy of yourself in them yes exactly right this is part of something called the catharsis process he is in hell to purge himself of his fear and his pride and his anger and the way you do that is by spitting other people and this this is what creates the catharsis and allows you to be a new person"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "i mean back to the lack of media right like initially dante called this lack of media was only afterwards that it was proven to be divine right right so i'm wondering if he's kind of worried too like if if this is i'm only doing like you know am i if i'm not fully channeling channeling the divine here will i end up in the same situation sure sure but but"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "he's pretty confident that that he is the true prophet okay otherwise he would not be writing uh the divine comedy um what proves that he is the true prophet to dante if you're a fortune teller and you predict some predict something right then that shows you are the true prophet but donnie doesn't do that so how does donnie prove he's the true prophet and he's able to convince a lot of people he's a true prophet how before the plague came well yeah well he died before the plague right the beauty of his poetry right does that make sense it's so beautiful that you move to tears and you are convinced that he must be the prophet right because otherwise how else could he have conjured up such beautiful poetry okay um let me ask you this question uh and it will end because we we've been going a long time um and we'll try to"
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      "text": "finish divine comedy uh in the next two days if so in our present day what kind of people will be condemned to hell with their heads um turn backwards and like i don't know the answer but i'm just curious as what who you might think would be condemned to hell with this sort of punishment i mean i don't know the answer i'm just asking you guys what who you think might deserve such a punishment we don't have fortune"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "tellers today right but who what kind of people there are a lot of fortune tellers today actually fortune telling is quite involved now in asia and in china yeah yes i think fake news so like media"
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      "text": "newspaper like in a way to move public opinion so that it fulfills the prophecy that the media wants yeah yeah yeah yes people with an agenda i guess"
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      "text": "you can call it fake news um people within the larger agenda trying to make something happen and then they're using all these channels for communication they're restricting imagination yeah the concept of restricting people's imagination yeah capture them into one reality"
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      "text": "yeah no no no i happen to agree i think uh very influential journalists today that clearly have an agenda um they are the moderately moderately equivalent of fortune tellers right because the way that you would influence a king is you would bribe a fortune teller to tell him what he wants to hear and that would cause him to do what what you wanted and that's what um journalists podcasters youtube celebrities but not me of course that's what they do right um so yes it goes back to imagination if your act of"
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      "text": "whatever the content that you put out if that is is it a net positive or net negative on on on on the imagination on people's ability to think for themselves right right and how and how would"
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      "text": "you differentiate between good and bad no no people's ability to think for themselves not"
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      "text": "necessarily good or bad right um right if i i i inject something with emotion and i try to push it push it push it force feed it to the larger population that's going to be similar to"
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      "text": "fortune teller right yes i think people are um people that are bad are those who trying to come trying to convince you into believing something without letting you even question it or um just letting just just without letting you know that you are being influenced by them um and your imagination is influenced or even narrowed down by them into believing something fixed that they want you to believe but um like you said uh that's why i think you are not this kind of person because you you never like don't let us to to to um imagine for ourselves and and um propose our own um arguments against or not against you okay well thank you for that any more comments yeah because"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "i think hollywood always make a lot of films and all of the blockbusters just try to keep telling you some kind of the you know uh to predict the future for example like terminator or some kind of films like that avatar or you know maybe yeah"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "okay that that that gives you a possible um explanation right not the not that they're like trying to convince you this is what's going to happen they give you a possibility so do you think that's also a fortune teller in a way that it okay all right so so so so i don't spend too much time"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "on on this con on this idea and also i'll get into trouble because you guys will name names and then he'll interview me and he'll he'll like shout out me for an hour okay but like um we have looked at a list of a sliding decline okay are there any major things that are missing from this list that that you want to point out so for example the idea of a meritocracy which is an intense competition for few and fewer uh uh resources you have access and arrogance pride fraud you have the lack of social mobility lack of openness uh homosexuality incest among the elite right and"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "it like extreme wealth inequality yes exactly great extreme wealth equality yes self indulgence self indulgence yes um not being able to express uh one's own opinions yes leadership exactly exactly that's very important yes i i wanna write this down okay policies men Jerseyhan yes yes that's faireng Gotcha that's very important yes that looks very make sense dollars yeah I'm not gonna get stainless steel if i lose some money then your poi"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "um sorry censorship i mean the fact that when we talk about homosexuality um like you know i'm nervous about being cancelled on youtube right i'm being stoned to death at yale yes yes um increased"
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      "text": "yes i think censorship is a problem but um like in some well you can you can actually say whatever you want or like think whatever you want but the fact that you cannot change"
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      "text": "no you can't no you cannot no you cannot if you if this were at yale and i said you know homosexuality could be bad i'd be in a lot of trouble i would get fired i'm not joking here okay you cannot say whatever you want you just can't yes decrease trust in social institutions including the media the government yes that's really important the breakdown of authority yes exactly the breakdown of authority this is really important the reality is that today there are no institutions that can be trusted anymore right um before in the united states you had congress you had science you had the military you had universities now none of these institutions are trusted uh yes to that point also um"
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      "text": "increased bureaucracy a power like bureaucrats having a lot of power"
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      "time_label": "3:59:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "yes okay yes maybe post -modernism so like the annihilation of all the trusted authorities before like the cancel culture movement yes it's"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "post -truth yeah right you can't even talk about what's true or not uh yes i would say"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-p82v6uac9ss",
      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "directed education so giving one definition of what it means to be successful exactly yes"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Hell Begins When Hope Collapses Into Competition And Fraud",
      "source_title": "Dante #7: Hell Cantos 10-19",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "a narrow definition of success yes uh yes degradation in the aesthetic standards okay great so i'm convinced we are totally screwed okay all right so that's it for today i'll see everyone tomorrow"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Naming Dido?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yeah, he names Dido, okay? Do you understand? Because remember what happened was that Virgil would go on about a thousand different people and he would name all of them, but he would not name Dido because he hates Dido and honestly he's ashamed of what he did to Dido, right? And so Dante, what he's doing is, away from the speech of Virgil, he names Dido somewhere else to restore Dido. Does that make sense? You see that nuance here, right? So it's an act of rebellion, it's an act of defiance that foreshadows paradise, okay? What is to come. All right, keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
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      "start": 44.62,
      "end": 94.3,
      "time_label": "0:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Line 82. Even as doves, when summoned by desire, borne forward by their will, move through the air with wings uplifted still to their sweet nest, those spirits left the ranks where Dido suffers, approaching us through the malignant air so powerful had been my loving cry. Verse 88. O living being! O living being, gracious and benign, who through the darkened air have come to visit our souls that stained the world with blood. If he who rules the universe were a friend to us, then we should pray to him to give you peace for you have pitied our atrocious state. Whatever pleases you to hear and speak will please us too to hear and speak with you now while the wind is silent in this place. The land where I was born lies on that shore to which the Po together with the waters that follow it descends to final rest. Loft! Loft that can quickly seize"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 94.3,
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      "time_label": "1:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "the gentle heart took hold of him because of the fair body taken from me, how that was done still wounds me. Loft that releases no beloved from loving, took hold of me so strongly through his beauty that as you see it has not left me yet. Loft led the two of us unto one death, Chayinna waits for him who took our life. These words were borne across from them to us. When I had listened to those injured souls, I bent my head and held it low until the poet asked of me."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 123.16,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "what are you thinking okay so um virgil says to dante if you really understand how you talk to these different souls okay so dante talks to these two souls these are two people from his own life in italy and they said that well you know we fell in love and um we went we eloped together but my husband found out and he killed us both okay and um so virgil asks what do you think of this okay"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
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      "start": 156.1,
      "end": 212.17,
      "time_label": "2:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "and let's let's listen to dante's response line 112 when i replied my words began alas how many gentle thoughts how deep a longing had led them to the agonizing past then i addressed my speech again to them and i began francesca your afflictions moved me to tears of sorrow and of pity but tell me in the time of gentle sighs with what and in what way did love allow you to recognize your still uncertain longings and she to me there's no greater sorrow than thinking back upon a happy time in misery and this your teacher knows yet if you long so much to understand the first root of our love then i shall tell my tale to you as one who weeps and speaks one day to pass the time away we read of lancelot how love had overcome him we were alone and we suspected nothing and time and time again that reading led"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 212.17,
      "end": 245.14,
      "time_label": "3:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "our eyes to meet and made our faces pale and yet one point alone defeated us when we had read how the desired smile was kissed by one who was so true a lover this one who never shall be parted from me while all his body trembled kissed my mouth a gal halt indeed that book and he who wrote it too that day we read no more and while one spirit said these words to me the other wept so that because of pity i fainted as if i had met my death and then i fell as a dead"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "4:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "body falls okay all right so the story is that francisca and her lover um at this time in history there's something called courtly love which is like you know just romantic uh you write romantic poetry you declare your love to someone else but you don't consummate it okay um this is very common uh at this time in court love tradition where you profess your love but it's not consummate it's not sexual at all and so francisca and her lover they're reading this poetry uh this row this romance and then they have the urge to kiss each other which pisses off the um the husband and and they both get killed what's the difference between love and lust what is the difference between love and lust a frames of the nefarous child real husband the confessor"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
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      "end": 323.7,
      "time_label": "5:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "and lust uh yes and speaking from definition one is an emotion a thing of soul and the other thing is a thing that is physical but i think in this context it actually means uh love is when you wish the best for someone selfishly and lust is when you wish to possess them okay all right anyone"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "time_label": "5:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "else so lust also comes from a place of power right of control right anyone else yes uh so"
    },
    {
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      "start": 343.74,
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      "time_label": "5:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "uh love is like a strong emotion where lust is like impulse i think like impulse to to have sex or to to you know like to follow your feelings yes okay so it's impulsive it's"
    },
    {
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      "end": 376.17,
      "time_label": "5:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "just something you do on the spirit of the moment you do it without reflection okay um but why is that a sin why would that be a bad thing yes because you want to control others"
    },
    {
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      "start": 378.73,
      "end": 405.37,
      "time_label": "6:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "not necessarily right yes uh because the last is the original thing or in the same means that it's just not a real thing just original it means it can cause this thing so maybe last is something which can cause this thing can cause people to make mistake like your your last song means you want to have sex with someone or maybe but that is desire this says desire can let people to do something badly"
    },
    {
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      "start": 405.75,
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      "time_label": "6:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "so like like a rape or whatever yes because when you lust for someone that is an objectification of that person you objectify them they are no longer an individual okay all right can you explain some more for example um like let's say let's example of prostitution right you um if you have lust for let's say a sex worker then you are not treating them in a way that sees them as human but as more like an object so it objects it takes away their sort of the dignity that they"
    },
    {
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0@transcript:v1#seg-0015",
      "start": 453.34,
      "end": 496.27,
      "time_label": "7:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "they have as a human right all right so let's carry let's kill this further okay we're trying to figure out what the difference is between love and lust and again it's not that clear you know donnie's completely confused by this that's why donnie is faint is faint because he's like what's going on here i don't really understand why lust would necessarily be a sin right is it possible for you to love someone and then you love someone right you first if you see someone beautiful yeah you're like you know i want her number i i want to go talk to her that's lust but then you talk to her you guys have coffee and you're like wow she's my soul mate now you're in love so is that it doesn't lust lead to love what can someone explain to me what's going on yes um"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "maybe another part is um i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know lust focuses on the the outward image while love is more about like emotional connection and"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 504.45,
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      "time_label": "8:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "getting to know them better yes uh i think lust is based on the flesh it's based on the body but uh love is just based on devotion based on the hope or you know inspiration or something but but i'm"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 518.03,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "confused right because it's just like like how do you find love in the first place right i mean like yeah yes"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "if god is love wouldn't love be like you're bringing god into the relationship and then bringing back to the to the fall adam and eve uh ate the apple and they saw they were naked and were ashamed and so you're hiding from god you're in shame you're bringing the ego into"
    },
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      "start": 546.17,
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      "time_label": "9:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "lust yeah okay so so that that's a really so so i'm hearing two really interesting ideas okay first is that lust causes you to objectify which is to simplify and possess someone also love is uh is about giving right it's about letting go of your ego whereas lust is about fulfilling your ego okay but i'm still confused as to why lust would necessarily be a sin why would it be bad right because because like let's because like let's expand this okay heaven is where love is love means no fear right so if it's a sin it is what it's doing is it's causing love to be degraded and it's causing fear to come into place right so that's what a sin is so why would lust do this and again again of all the sins lust we're going to descend down to hell so lust is like the least light of all the sins but"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 625.06,
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      "time_label": "10:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "it's still a sin so i'm confused as to why francisca you know she falls in love and she they kiss and then she's killed why it's necessarily her fault what what's what's a sin"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "time_label": "10:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "here yes um so uh before you mentioned that free will is god's most precious gift to us and when you're lusting over someone you are violating your free will even if it's in your mind like with modern celebrities some people say very rude things about them in comments and even while that is legal it is still a sin because they are already violating these celebrities in their minds"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 663.39,
      "end": 675.21,
      "time_label": "11:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "but i mean i'm trying to figure out why loving someone and lusting someone why loving someone would not violate the free will but lusting someone would violate the free will yeah yes"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 676.34,
      "end": 712.98,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "because like lusting someone is more driven by your like physical drive and here like francisca she went over her ability to reason she basically betrayed her husband and that is sinful because it's misordered and love is more like driven by your spiritual connection so it goes beyond lust it's more of your free will because you personally resonate with this specific person but like lust technically anyone who's physically attractive can be so is sex a sin a target is sex the sin no but misorder"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "end": 759.12,
      "time_label": "11:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "sex is okay all right okay all right um yeah um any more thoughts before we continue okay so what i'm hearing is um love is special connection uh less is physical connection uh less is the objectification of someone um love is the appreciation of someone in that person's complexity uh and contradiction and um um less is about possession about controlling someone whereas love is about giving yourself okay so so there are lots of differences okay all right let's let's let's"
    },
    {
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      "start": 759.12,
      "end": 827.31,
      "time_label": "12:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "let's continue canto six upon my mind's reviving it had closed on hearing the lament of those two kindred since sorrow had confounded me completely i see new sufferings new sufferers surrounding me on every side wherever i move or turn about or set my eyes i'm in the third circle filled with cold unending heavy and accursed rain its measure and its kind are never changed gross hailstones water gray with filth and snow comes streaking down across the shadowed air the earth as it receives that shower stinks over the souls of those submerged beneath that mess is an outlandish vicious beast his three throats barking dog -like cerberus his eyes are blood -red breezy black his beard is black and his eyes are blood -red and his face is beard his belly bulges and his hands are claws his talons tear and flay and rend the shades that downpour makes the sinners how like door dogs they"
    },
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      "start": 827.31,
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      "time_label": "13:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "use one of their sides to screen the other those miserable wretches turn and turn when cerberus the great worm noticed us he opened wide his mouth showed us his fangs there was no part of him that did not twitch my guide opened his hands to their full span plucked up some earth and with his fists filled full he hurt it straight into those famished jaws just as a dog that barks with greedy hunger with will then fall quiet when he gnaws his food intent and straining hard to cram it in so were the filthy faces that the demon cerberus transformed after he'd stunned the spirit so they wished that they"
    },
    {
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      "end": 877.13,
      "time_label": "14:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "were deaf okay so there's cerberus um who's threatening them and then virgil basically feeds them okay so again this gives us the idea that virgil really is the emperor of hell he's able to"
    },
    {
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      "start": 877.27,
      "end": 928.54,
      "time_label": "14:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "control the demons here they keep on going line 34 we walked across the shades on whom their thuds that heavy rain and set our souls upon their empty images that seem like persons and all those spirits lay upon the ground except for one who sat erect as soon as he caught sight of us in front of him oh you who are conducted through this hell he said to me recall me if you can for you before i was unmade were made and i to him it is perhaps your anguish that snatches you out of my memory so that it seems that i have never seen you but tell me who you are you who are set in such a dismal place such punishment if other pains are more and none's more disgusting and he to me your city one soul so full of envy that its sack has always built that city held me in"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "the sun lit life the name your citizens gave me was choco and for the damning sin of gluttony as you can see i a wretched soul am not alone for all of these have the same penalty for the same sin and he said no more i answered him choco your suffering so waits on me that i'm forced to weep but tell me if you know what end awaits the citizens of that divided city is any just man there tell me the reason why it has been assailed by so much schism and he to me after long controversy they'll come to blood the party of the woods will chase the other out with much offense but then within three suns they too must fail at which the other party will prevail using the powerful one who taxed his sails this party will hold high his its head for long and heap great hates great weight upon"
    },
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      "start": 985.42,
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      "text": "its enemies however much they weep indignantly two men are just but no one listens to them three Sparks that set on fire every heart are envy pride and avariciousness with this his words many tears were done and I to him I would learn more from you I ask you for a gift of further speech to Gaio for Renata men so worthy Arrigo Moscow Jacopo rusticucci and all the rest whose minds bent toward the good do tell me where they are and let me meet them for my great longing drives me on to learn if heaven sweetens or health poisons them and he they are among the blackest souls a different scene a different sin has dragged them to the bottom if you descend so low there you can see them but when you have returned to the sweet world I pray recall me to men's memory I say no more to you answer no more"
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      "text": "then his straight gaze grew twisted and awry he looked at me a while then bent his heads he fell as low as all his blind companions and my guide said to me he'll rise no more until the blast of the angelic trumpet upon the coming of the hostile judge each one shall see his sorry tomb again once again take on his flesh and form and hear what shall resound eternally so did we pass across that squalid mixture of shadows and of rain our steps slowed down talking a while about the life to come at which I said and after the great sentence oh master will these torments grow or else be less or will they just be as intense and he to me remember now your science which says that when a thing has more perfection so much the greater is its pain or pleasure though these accursed sinners never shall attain the true perfection"
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      "text": "yet they can expect to be more perfect than than now we took the circling way traced by the road we said much more than I can hear recount we reached the point that marks the downward slope here we found Plutus the"
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      "text": "great enemy okay so certain points about this passage first of all um uh who Dante is meeting are people he he knew from his life in Florence okay so a lot of his public enemies will be here condemned in in hell um the other thing is um I want to talk about the nature of these punishments in hell what are these punishments trying to do why they construct the way it is because uh we were in a circle of lust and so these people are being whipped around by the wind right now we are in the third circle which is people are being punished for gluttony right and what's your punishment all the rain they're being rained on okayguys skin Rain Would Be a Fitting punishment for gluttony uh yes um so there's a lot of factor here first"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "19:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "of all there's this saying the fires of last so symbolically the rain is meant to put out the firebalast and not so symbolically like imagine you are thirsty because hell is hot and you're standing in the middle of the rain and there is furchio think you are thirsty because hell is hot no water beneath you, there's no jug of water, and you just have to open your mouth and let the raindrops fall into your mouth little by little, little by little, and no matter how much you want it, no matter how much you wave the rain towards you with your hands, no more rain will come than what rain will come. So you can't satisfy your lust."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Okay, well, it's raining for all eternity, right? All right, let's visualize this, okay? What is gluttony? What is gluttony? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Gluttony is, the narrow sense is eating too much food or eating excessive amounts of food or lavish food, but on a wider definition, it's desiring too much and indulging in excessive pleasures."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yes, okay, yeah?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Not being able to stop."
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    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yeah, not stopping, always desiring, just not able to restrain yourself. Okay, that's what gluttony is. Yes. Why would, yes?"
    },
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      "text": "How is gluttony different from greed?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "How is gluttony different from greed? That's a great question, okay? Anyone? What are you doing with greed? We will actually enter the circle of greed, right? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
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      "text": "Greed might be personal gain at the expense of others. Exactly. But like gluttony is just not being able to control yourself."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "That's right, that's right, okay? So greed, you are stealing, you are stealing, you are stealing, and from others, essentially. Does that make sense? Right? Whereas gluttony is, you're just, yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Could you say that greed is wanting a lot of things and gluttony is wanting a lot of the same thing?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Well, I mean, like, if you want money, right, you're still greedy, right? It's, right? So like, but like the main issue is greed is you're actually taking from others. Does that make sense? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "I don't know so much about that. Like, to me, it feels like greed is when you take things and gluttony is when you take things and then you consume them. So for example, if you see a person who is overeating, like obviously overeating and wasting food and maybe vomiting it out, you wouldn't say, wow, you're so greedy. You would say, you're a glutton. And if you -"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yeah, but that's what we're saying. Gluttony is like you just want too much. No, no, no. Whereas greedy, you're taking from others."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "No, like gluttony is when you take things and you consume them, you reduce them to nothing. And greed is when you take things."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "And you're taking these things from where?"
    },
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      "time_label": "22:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Like, there's an extra step after gluttony. That's what I'm trying to point out."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Okay, all right, all right. So let's continue, okay? So gluttony is you want too much and you can never stop from wanting too much. So why would raining on you be the - Punishment. What's the logic of this?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "Make you awake and dull you of your desire."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Dull you of your desire, huh? All right, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Be given to you as a punishment. Yes. Like endless rain."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yes, can you explain this?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "So it's kind of like a tooth for a tooth. So if you are gluttonous, you want more and more and more and it never satisfied you, so raining more and more and more on you is like the right punishment for you."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 1418.3,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "But why would it be the right punishment for you? I understand that that's a punishment, right? But why would that be the right punishment?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Because it never satisfy you. It's just raining on you. You don't consume it or do anything with it."
    },
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      "text": "Do you think people enjoy being rained on?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "No."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Right, so what's going on here?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "I think, which is why I mentioned not being able to stop. To me, a gluttonous person is a person that, you know, we all know that, right? But you just keep eating. You're just not able to stop."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Okay, all right, guys. Again, again, you have to use your imagination. Okay? So the sin is gluttony, okay? The sin is gluttony. And I want to, and people who are gluttonous tend to be fat, right? Gluttony, okay? Fat. All right, so let's just think of different punishments. Okay, we don't have to think about the logic or justice of it, but let's think of like how, if we were designing hell and you, you know, this person is fat or gluttonous, what could we do to this person? Okay? Okay, okay. Nothing to eat, sure, okay? Nothingness, right? You are just in a prison by yourself, like solitary confinement. There's nothing to do, okay? That's one possible punishment. Okay? What else? Feed them to death. Excuse me? Feed them to death. Okay, yeah, like just too much food, okay? So like you just balloon out, right? Just like cake after cake. It's like, have you guys ever seen the Homer, the Simpsons episode when Homer's in hell?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "25:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "And then like, and then the devil's like, ha, you like doughnuts, right? And so what they do is they create this machine which feeds doughnuts to Homer for all of eternity. It's like, oh, and then the devil's like, eventually he's gonna mom it, but Homer is like in ecstasy, okay? He's like, oh, yes. Yes, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Me."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
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      "time_label": "25:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "You, then you. Okay, maybe like allowed them to do some exercise. Okay. good yeah treadmill man this is awesome you're fat i'll make you exercise for the rest of your"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "25:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "life until you're thin right uh yes maybe just put food just out of your range you can see it but you cannot yeah that's a really good punishment right like like you're on a treadmill and there's"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "26:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "a cake in front of you and you're running around as fast as you can but you can never actually touch the cake okay so yeah so maybe um cake out of reach yeah these are great punishments what else yes um i just have to point something out like can you not do this please i have to do"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "this because i find this really upsetting people are fat for a lot of reasons other than gluttony and i think that reducing fat equals gluttony i think it's really reductive this is just this"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "is an exercise okay i think it's really offensive okay all right you're flooding me so like oh you're not fat but you're gluttonous okay all right okay um okay i hate to say this but every day i teach for four hours and it's a really hard to teach for four hours okay i also have to constantly thinking so if you're interrupting me or you're trying to divert my attention it causes my brain to be even more fatigued okay it is exhausting okay well i'm telling you what's happening because this is my my sixth day okay okay all right okay all right let's let's keep on going okay the cake is out of reach you are uh running uh very very far okay so these are all great punishments okay and what they're doing is punishing you understand it's punishing you for your gluttony and that's what we think hell is hell is about punishment yeah"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "go ahead"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "can i i mean i'm just linking this to lust and the punishment for lust yes which is like being world around it's almost like the consequence of what you cause to others in the world"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "yes exactly okay so we think that hell is a place of punishment but for dante it's also a place of justice but redemptive justice to force you into reflection to force you to recognize the hurt you've caused others does it make sense okay so um the so you are you have gluttony and it's raining on you and it never stops okay so what what it's telling you is that is just an expression of your gluttony okay a rain that can't stop okay does that make sense okay that's why hell is designed the way it is it's not designed to punish because if we want to punish there are like a million ways we could punish anyone right we just have to use our imagination these are great punishments and we would laugh at this but the point of hell is not to punish the point of hell is to force reflection to force people to"
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      "time_label": "29:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "recognize what the problem is and um what they can do about it okay does that make sense okay any questions all right uh yes yeah i mean i uh yes hell that the the tornado in for lust and"
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      "start": 1785.78,
      "end": 1798.28,
      "time_label": "29:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "this one for gluttony but also in heaven too picardia is also stuck in it in a loop i just noticed the pattern even between inferno and and and there is symmetry here i'm just saying"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 1798.28,
      "end": 1805.67,
      "time_label": "29:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "yes exactly okay yes you're exactly right yes how does being in a tornado um help you reflect"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
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      "start": 1807.87,
      "end": 1823.63,
      "time_label": "30:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "no no it's it's trying to manifest visualize for you the problem with lust and the idea is that you are inconstant okay you always change your mind okay that's a problem with lust like if you see something beautiful you want it but then something more beautiful you want that"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 1823.63,
      "end": 1861.46,
      "time_label": "30:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "okay all right yes um we have a very interesting comment from the live stream okay and one person mentioned that she thinks that the punishment is quite similar we can take the japanese animation film spirited away tension as an example because she thinks the peeks in the film is quite similar to this punishment and um greed is like something saying like i want more and god's name is like i can't stop it's just like the pigs in the film good yeah exactly right"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 1861.46,
      "end": 1887.02,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "so greed is like i want i want more i want i want something from others glenn is i can't stop okay good okay all right but does that make sense to you okay hell is constructed not as a place to make you afraid to punish you it's hell is a place constructed to force you into seeing for yourself the problems and dangers of your sin okay does"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 1887.02,
      "end": 1903.25,
      "time_label": "31:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "that make sense okay all right uh yes consequence and the principle behind your sin to make you realize the sins essence and what it does to you or your body or the others around you yes okay"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 1903.25,
      "end": 1908.63,
      "time_label": "31:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "right so again it the it's to put a mirror to your face okay all right let's keep on reading"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 1918.86,
      "end": 1974.74,
      "time_label": "31:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "canto seven poppy satan poppy satan alepe so plutus with his grating voice began the gentle sage aware of everything said reassuringly don't let your fear defeat you for whatever power he has he cannot stop our climbing down this crag then he turned back to plutus's swollen face and said to him be quiet cursed wolf let your vindictiveness feed on yourself he's no his is no random journey to the deep it has been willed on high where michael took revenge upon the arrogant rebellion as sails inflated by the wind collapsed and tangled in a heap when the mass cracks so that ferocious beast fell to the ground thus we made our way down to the fourth ditch to take in more of that despondent shore where all the universe's ill is stored justice of god who has amassed as many strange tortures and travails as i have seen why do we let our guilt consume us"
    },
    {
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      "start": 1974.74,
      "end": 2030.29,
      "time_label": "32:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "so even as waves that break above charybdis each shattering the other when they meet so must the spirits here dance their round dance here more than else where i saw multitudes to every side of me their howls were loud while wheeling weights they used their chests to push they struck against each other at that point each turned around a little and wheeling back those weights cried out why do you hoard why do you squander so did they move around the sorry circle from left and right to the opposing point again again they cried their chant of scorn and so when each of them had changed positions he circled halfway back to his next joust and i who felt my heart almost pierced through requested master show me now what shades are these and tell me if they all or clerics those tonsured ones who circle on our left and he to me all these two"
    },
    {
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      "start": 2030.29,
      "end": 2084,
      "time_label": "33:50",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "left and right were so squint -eyed of mind in the first life no spending that they did was done with measure their voices spark this out with clarity when they have reached the two points of the circle where their opposing guilts divide their ranks these to the left their heads bereft of hair were clergymen and popes and cardinals with him whom avarice works its excess and i to him master among this kind i certainly might hope to recognize some who have been slandered by these crimes and he to me that thought of yours is empty that the undiscerning life that made them filthy now renders them unrecognizable for all eternity they'll come to blows these here will rise up from the sepulchers with fists clenched tight and these with hair cropped clothes ill -giving and ill -keeping have robbed both of the fair world and set them to this fracas what that is like my"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "words need not embellish now you can see my son how brief a sport of all those goods that are in fortune's care for which the tribe of men contend and brawl for all the gold that is wherever was beneath the moon could never offer rest to even one of these exhausted spirits master i asked of him now tell me too this fortune whom you've touched upon just now what she who clutches so all the world's goods and he to me oh unenlightened creatures how deep the ignorance that hampers you i want you to digest my word on this who made the heavens who gave them guides was he whose wisdom transcends everything that every part may shine unto the other he had the light apportioned equally similarly for worldly splendors he ordained a general minister and guide to shift from time to time those empty goods from nation unto nation clan to clan in ways"
    },
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      "start": 2140.17,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "that human reason can't prevent just so when people rules one languishes obeying the decision she has given which like a serpent in the grass is hidden your knowledge cannot stand against her force for she foresees and judges and maintains her kingdom as the other gods do theirs the changes that she brings are without respite it is necessary it is necessity that makes her swift and for this reason men change state so often she's the one so frequently maligned even by those who should give praise to her they blame her wrongfully with words of scorn but she's blessed and do not hear these things for with the primal beings happy she turns her sphere and glories in her bliss but now let us descend to greater sorrow for every star that rose when i first moved is setting now we cannot stay too long we crossed the circle to the other shore we reached a foaming"
    },
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      "start": 2197.68,
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      "time_label": "36:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "water course that spills into a trench formed by its overflow that stream was even darker than deep purple and we together with those shadowed waves moved downward and along a strange pathway when it was reached when it's has reached the foot of those malign grays floats that melancholy stream descends forming a swamp that bears the name of sticks and i who was intent on watching it could make out muddied people in that slime all naked and their faces furious these struck each other not with hands alone but with their heads and chests and with their feet and tore each other piecemeal with their teeth the kindly master told me son now see the souls of those whom ganger has defeated and i should all also have you know for certain that underneath the water there are souls who sigh and make this plane of water bubble as your eye looking anywhere can tell wedged in"
    },
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      "text": "the slime they say we had been sullen in the sweet air that's gladdened by the sun we bore the midst of sluggishness in us now we're bitter in the blackened mud this hymn they have to gurgle in their gullets because they cannot speak it in full words and so between the dry shore and the swamp we circled much of that disgusting pond our eyes upon the swallowers of slime we came at last upon a tower space okay so we are"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "um going down in these circles we encounter people who are greedy what is their punishment they have to push rocks around okay in a circle in a circle uh what else okay what else and why would this be a fitting punishment for them again it's really important for us to appreciate the definition of punishment which is not an illogicalalay the real definition is to punish not to punish but to force reflection okay to force you to recognize the error of your ways so that you can choose to make a better decision okay this is this is about redemptive justice as opposed to just pure vengeance it was the logic of this punishment yes"
    },
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      "start": 2353.5,
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      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "what is the logic of this punishment yes"
    },
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      "start": 2356.1,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "are for nothing because you're pushing these rocks around in circles and it's just like you're greedy you get a lot of these earthly things and at the end you it comes down to nothing"
    },
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      "time_label": "39:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "you put so much work exactly yeah yeah that's very beautiful thank you yes"
    },
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      "start": 2372,
      "end": 2380.12,
      "time_label": "39:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "maybe try to let people redeem redeem and try to be uh salvation or something yes okay right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "right exactly okay yes anyone else okay all right the anger what's the punishment for the for the"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "anger they have to wrestle each other in mud okay and and what else and they're submerged"
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      "text": "underwater yes and what else the swallows swan and they're also like are they also cannibalizing each other aren't they also eating each other so so so what's the why is this a fitting punishment uh for"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "this or yeah for forgiveness it means to forgive people yes when you are angry you kind of bite off"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "each other like you're mad at each other you have you want to tore each other apart but you're also like kind of drowning in your own anger that you are following basically because it's killing your body that's how you a lot of people get cancer and all kinds of disease when you're angry"
    },
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      "text": "exactly okay so you think you are hurting others but you're actually hurting yourself you're consuming others but you're also consuming yourself in the process"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "okay all right yes i wonder what is um the river styx doing here excuse me um why why are they"
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      "text": "drowned in the rivers okay all right so when you read the divine comedy each of these different realms whether they are uh inferno purgatory or paradise there's always a complex geography to these realms and there are certain demarcation points which um suggest we are entering a new level okay do you understand so the sins that we've encountered so far whether they be lust um gluttony greed anger they're bad but not that bad okay when we cross river stakes when we enter uh new territory this is like even worse since okay um so these are things that may make others uncomfortable they make they make make your life terrible but they're not actually disrupting the fundamental structure of the universe whereas if you go lower and lower these people are in fact um destroying the very fabric of the universe okay does it make sense okay so so what donna is trying to do is trying"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "to separate these different regions of hell as well okay all right okay any more questions before we move on all right let's let's let's keep on going okay"
    },
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      "text": "kanto eight i say continuing that long before we two had reached the foot of that tall tower our eyes had risen upward towards its summit because of two small flames that flickered there while still another flame returned their signal so far off it was scarcely visible and i turned toward the sea of all good sense i said what does this mean and what reply comes from that other fire who kindled it and he to me above the filthy waters you can already see what waits for us if it's not hid by vapors from the marsh bowstring has not thrust from itself an arrow that ever rushed it swiftly through the heiress at the little bark that at that moment i saw as it skimmed toward us on the water a solitary boatman at its home i heard him how now you're caught foul soul of phlegia's flea gas such a shout useless this time my"
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      "text": "master said we're yours no longer than it will take to cross the muddy sluice and just as one who hears some great deception was done to him and then resents it so was so was fliegas when he had to store his anger my guide preceded me into the boat once he was in he had me follow him there seemed to be no weight until i boarded no sooner were my guide and i embarked then off that ancient prow went cutting water more deeply than it does when bearing others and while we steered across the stagnant channel before me stood a sinner thick with mud saying who are you come before your time and i to him i've come but i don't stay but who are you have become so ugly he answered you can see i'm one who heaps who weeps and i to him in weeping and in grieving a cursed spirit may you"
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      "text": "long remain though you're disguised by filth i know your name then he stretched both his hands out toward the boat at which my master quickly shoved him back saying be off there with the other dogs that done he threw his arms around my neck and kissed my face and said indignant soul blessed is she who bore you in her womb when in the world he was presumptuous there's no good to guilt his memory and so his shade down here is hot with fury how many up above now count themselves great kings who wall here like pigs in slime leaving behind foul memories of their crimes and i oh master i'm very eager to see that spirit soused within this broth before we've made our way across the lake and he to me before the other shore comes into view you shall be satisfied to gratify so fine a wish is right soon after i heard"
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      "text": "i had heard these words i saw the muddy sinner so dismember him that even now i pray to him that he may be satisfied with his grace and thank god for it they were all shouting they all were shouting at filippo argenti at this the florentine gone wild with spleen began to turn his teeth against himself we left him there i tell no more of him but in my nearest but in my year so loud a wailing pounded that i leaned forward all intent to see the kindly master said my son the city that bears the name of dis is strong near with its grave citizens its great battalions i said i can already see distinctly master the mosques that gleam within the valley as crimson as if they had just been drawn out of the fire he told me the eternal flame burning there appears to make me make them red as you can"
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      "text": "see within this lower hell so we arrived inside the deep cut trenches that are the moats of this despondent land the ramparts seem to me to be of iron but not before we ranged in a wide circuit did we approach a place where we could not see the fire but we reached a place where there's that shrill pilot shouted get out the entrance way is here above the gates i saw more than a thousand who once had reigned from heaven and they cried in anger who is this who without death can journey through the kingdom of the dead and my wise master made a sign that said he wanted to speak secretly to them then they suppressed somewhat their great disdain and said you come alone let him be gone for he was reckless entering this realm let him return alone on his mad road or try to if he can since you his guide"
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      "text": "across so dark a land you are to stay consider reader my dismay before the sound of those abominable words returning here seemed so impossible oh my dear guide who more than seven times has given back to me my confidence and snatched me from deep danger that had menaced do not desert me when i'm so undone and if they will not let us pass beyond let us retrace our steps together quickly these were my words the lord who led me there replied forget your fear no one can hinder our passage one so great has granted it but you wait here for me and feed and comfort your tired spirit with good hope for i will not abandon you in this low world and so he go goes on his way that gentle father has left me there to wait and hesitate for yes and no content within my head i could not hear what he was"
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      "text": "telling them but he had not been able to hear what he was telling them and so he went on along with them when each ran back into the cities scrambling fast and these our adversaries slammed the gates in my lord's face and he remained outside then with slow steps turned back again to me his eyes turned to ground his brows deprived of every confidence he said with size see who has kept me from the house of sorrow to him he added to me he added you though i am vexed must not be daunted i shall win this contest whoever tries within to block our way this insolence of theirs is nothing new they used it once before and at a gateless secret it is still without its bolt the place where you made out the fatal text and now already within that gate and across the circles and alone descends the one who will unlock"
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      "text": "realm for us okay so um for the past few cantos we've established that virgil is the master of hell he's able to navigate it pretty easily these demons obey him they do whatever he tells them he understands the geography of hell very intimately now we cross the river styx and we enter we are about to enter the city of dis okay the dis is the home of the fallen angels those who rebelled against god and now they are um in hell this is is where it's where they live within this we will find lucifer or satan what's going on here he's trying to get into the city and the demons say screw off uh this guy donnie doesn't belong here we'll let you in virgil but we won't let in dante and virgil says let us talk in private so they talk privately and then they're like no he's not coming in okay why do"
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      "text": "we have this scene what is dante trying to convey or trying to um say about the nature of hell or anything any thoughts any comments about what's going on"
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      "text": "yes in terms with the devil and they are like good buddies almost like there's a brotherhood there"
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      "text": "yeah so so what the devils are saying is that you've been here before uh we know you but we're"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "still at nagaland and dante yes um virgil is the master of outer hell not inner hell okay because he stops at this right so he's he's even he doesn't have authority to say who goes in and out of"
    },
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      "text": "the core okay what else"
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      "text": "yes um my question i have a question is why do the angels call dante a madman or reckless for entering the realm of the dead without dying like why do they call him a madman what what would"
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      "text": "you want to go into hell no yeah right it's like what are you doing here man you're still alive and you choose to walk among us are you crazy okay that that's what they're saying yes"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "love that he has sent beatrice to heaven so he's someone with love so he shouldn't be where the demons are and he still has reverence for god i guess a little bit um so the demons"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "think that he doesn't belong there well they tell me he doesn't belong there because his body he's still alive right they don't really know about beatrice they don't really know about god they don't care right so what's what's going on here anyone else they're saying that virgil and don't"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "are different so Virgil can go into this place but Dante can't good okay yeah so"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "so it's clearly the difference between Virgil and Dante okay Dante is a stranger to this world Virgil is very familiar to this world okay Virgil belongs here okay so that's implanting an idea in the reader like like Virgil really belongs here he's very intimate here he's probably very very happy here yes and this helps us explain why ultimately he chooses not to go to heaven right when when Dante takes Dante to purgatory the very top of purgatory he has opportunity to ascend to heaven he chooses not to go he just rather to just go back home to limbo what else yes yeah"
    },
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      "text": "I also have a question why why Dante just has to go to hell I mean it's just Virgil who just lead him to it to the hell or it's Dante who want him he is in"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "hell because there's no other path to heaven right he tried these other paths about blocked by these beasts so so Virgil's like well we could try to fight these beasts but we probably won't win so let us go another way let's go into hell and then we'll ascend to heaven for that way okay so this is the only path to heaven okay um what is the nature of people in hell why what does sin do to people and what why and why would that have to do? So why is Sinbad, yeah?"
    },
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      "text": "The people in hell like to control."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "So what do they do always?"
    },
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      "text": "They boss people around."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "And so what happens? They gatekeep. They gatekeep, and what happens? They fight amongst themselves, do you understand? So this is a metaphor for what is happening in Italy right now. Why are there so many different factions in Italy fighting each other? Why can't they get along, right? They know each other. They're probably born in the same family, but they're always fighting with each other. And it's the ego driven by sin, right? By their gluttony, by their lust, by their greed, by their anger. That's the issue in hell, and therefore there can be no smooth path in hell. There can be no unity in hell. They just have to fight each other all the time, okay? So what's the only way for Virgil and Dante to get out of this? Those demons won't let them in. That's just the nature of hell. People don't get along. They fight all the time. They gatekeep. They gatekeep. They are very territorial."
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      "text": "I think Virgil will fight his way in."
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      "text": "Good luck, Virgil. You're fighting an army of demons, yeah?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Bribe them."
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      "start": 3286.56,
      "end": 3310.04,
      "time_label": "54:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Hmm? Bribe. What do you think the first thing that Virgil tried to do was? Probably bribe them, right? They had a private conversation. You can imagine all the things that Virgil tried to tell them, right? Like bribing and all that. Didn't work. So is there any solution?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
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      "start": 3310.77,
      "end": 3311.29,
      "time_label": "55:10",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
      "date_label": "2026-06-21, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/transcript/#seg-0136",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y_GezhRJr0&t=3312s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0@transcript:v1#seg-0136",
      "start": 3312.53,
      "end": 3319.25,
      "time_label": "55:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Dante and Virgil would need to argue with each other and maybe fight to show they're a part of this hell thing?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
      "date_label": "2026-06-21, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y_GezhRJr0&t=3320s",
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      "start": 3320.95,
      "end": 3349.25,
      "time_label": "55:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "That's interesting, but that's not how these things work. Because again, these people are gatekeeping, they're territorial, right? So they're like, we don't care. Dante doesn't belong here. We control access, right? So what's the only path forward now? Are they able to resolve this conflict by themselves? No, okay? So God has intervened now, right? Okay. All right, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/transcript/#seg-0138",
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      "start": 3360.42,
      "end": 3369.81,
      "time_label": "56:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Canto 9. The color cowardice displayed in me when I saw that my guide was driven back made him more quickly mask his own new power."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
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      "start": 3370.19,
      "end": 3373.79,
      "time_label": "56:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "So he's very disappointed he was not able to convince the demons. Okay, keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
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      "start": 3374.01,
      "end": 3428.42,
      "time_label": "56:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "He stood alert like an attentive listener because his eyes could hardly journey far across the black air and the heavy fog. We have to win this battle, he began. If not, we can't. But one so great had offered help. How slow that someone's coming to see me. But I saw well enough how he had covered his first words with the words that followed after. So different from what he had said before. Nevertheless, his speech made me afraid because I drew out from his broken phrase a meaning worse, perhaps, than he'd intended. Does anyone from the first circle, one whose only punishment is crippled hope, ever descend so deep in the sad hollow? That was my question. And he answered so. It is quite rare for one of us to go along the way that I have taken now. But I, in truth, have been here once before. That savage witch, Eryktho, she who called the shades back to their bodies, summoned me."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/transcript/#seg-0141",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y_GezhRJr0&t=3428s",
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      "start": 3428.68,
      "end": 3483.12,
      "time_label": "57:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "My flesh had not been long stripped off when she had me descend through all the rings of hell to draw spirit back from Judas's circle. That is the deepest and the darkest place, the farthest from the heaven that girds all. So rest assured, I know the pathway well. The swamp that breathes and breathes the giant stench surrounds the city of the sorrowing, which now we cannot enter without anger. And he said more, but I cannot remember because my eyes had wholly taken me to that high tower with the glowing summit, where at one single point there suddenly stood three infernal theories flecked with blood who had the limbs of women and their ways, but wore as girdles snakes of deepest green, small serpents. And horned vipers formed their hairs, and these were used to bind their bestial temples. And he who knew these handmaids well, they served the"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/transcript/#seg-0142",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y_GezhRJr0&t=3483s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0142",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0@transcript:v1#seg-0142",
      "start": 3483.12,
      "end": 3545.55,
      "time_label": "58:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "queen of never -ending lamentation, said, Look at the ferocious Erinys, that is Megara on the left, and he who weeps upon the right, that is Electo, to syphonies between them. He was done. Each fury tore her breast with talent nails, each with her palms. Beats. She beat on herself and wailed so loud that I in fear drew near the poet. Just let Medusa come, then we shall turn him into stone. They all cried, looking down. We should have punished Theseus' assault. Turn round and keep your eyes shut fast, for should the gorgon show herself and you behold her, never again would you return above, my master said. And he himself turned me around and not content with just my hands, used his as well to cover up my eyes. Oh, you possessed of sturdy intellects, observe the teaching that is hidden here beneath the veiled verses so obscure, and now across the turbid waves, they're"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/transcript/#seg-0143",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y_GezhRJr0&t=3545s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0143",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0@transcript:v1#seg-0143",
      "start": 3545.55,
      "end": 3588.15,
      "time_label": "59:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "past our ribo -antic frockets. Hoard sound enough to make both of the shorelines quake, a sound no other, not other than a wind's when wild, because it must contend with warmer currents, it strikes against the forest without let. Shattering, beating down, bearing off branches that moves proudly. Oh, you possessed of sturdy intellects, observe the teaching that is hidden here beneath the veiled verses so obscure, and now across the turbid waves, they're past our ribo -antic frockets. Hoard sound enough to make both of the shorelines quake, a sound no other, not other than a wind's when wild, because it must contend with warmer currents, it strikes against the forest without let. Clouds of dust before it and puts to flight both animals and shepherds. He freed my eyes and said, now let your optic nerve turn directly toward that ancient foam. There where the mist is thickest and most accrued. As frogs confronted by their enemy, the snake will scatter underwater till each hunches in a heap along the bottom."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
      "date_label": "2026-06-21, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/transcript/#seg-0144",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y_GezhRJr0&t=3588s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0144",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0@transcript:v1#seg-0144",
      "start": 3588.59,
      "end": 3640.7,
      "time_label": "59:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "So did the thousand ruined souls I saw take flight before a figure crossing sticks who walked as if on land and with dry soul. He thrust away the thick air from his face, waving his left hand frequently before him. That seemed the only task that wearied him. I knew well he was heaven's messenger, and I turned around my master, and he made a sign that I be still and bow before him. How full of high disdain he seemed to me, he came up to the gate, and with a wand he opened it, for there was no resistance. Oh, you cast out of heaven, hated crowd, were his first words upon that horrid, threshold. Why do you harbor this presumptuousness? Why are you so reluctant to endure that will whose aim can never be cut short, and which so often add unto your hurts?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-21",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0/transcript/#seg-0145",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y_GezhRJr0&t=3641s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0@transcript:v1#seg-0145",
      "start": 3641.14,
      "end": 3702.49,
      "time_label": "1:00:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "What good is it to thrust against the fates? You're Cerberus, if you remember well, for that had both his throat and chin stripped clean. At that he turned and took the filthy road and did not speak to us, but had the look of one who's obsessed by other cares. Then those that pressed and gnawed those before him, and we moved forward onto, on into the city, in safety, having heard his holy words. We made our way inside without a struggle, and I, who wanted so much to observe the state of things that such a fortress guarded, as soon as I had entered, looked about. I saw on every side a spreading plain of lamentation and atrocious pain, just as at Arles, where Rome becomes a marsh, just as at Pola, near Cronera, a narrow scull that closes Italy and bathes its borders. The sepulchres make all the plain uneven, so they did here on every side, except that here the sepulchres were much more harsh."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
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      "start": 3703.43,
      "end": 3751.85,
      "time_label": "1:01:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "For flames were scattered through the tombs, and these had kindled all of them to glowing heat. No artisan could ask for hotter iron. The lid of every tomb was lifted up, and from each tomb such sorry cries arose as could come only from the sad and hurt. And I, master, who can these people be, buried in great chests of stone like these, must speak by way of sighs and agony, and he to me, here are our heretics and those who followed them from every sect. Those tombs are much more crowded than you think. Here, like, like has been and sepulchred with like. Some monuments are heated more, some less, and then he turned around and to his right we passed between the torments and high walls."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 3752.11,
      "end": 3784.53,
      "time_label": "1:02:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "OK, so Virgil and Donny cannot pass into this. And in fact, there are furies and Medusa who threaten them. OK, so what saves them is the arrival of an angel who forces this to be opened and the demons flee. How does Virgil feel about this? How does he feel? You're in trouble. You can't solve a problem. God sends an angel to help you. How?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "start": 3784.53,
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      "time_label": "1:03:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "how do you feel embarrassed when angel comes and saves you you feel embarrassed um well so virgil is supposed to be i really know his way around hell yes and be buds with everyone and have control but here it's something that he can't do so it's kind of embarrassing that he couldn't"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "time_label": "1:03:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "do that completely on his own and so he's embarrassed right so what does this tell us about virgil he has uh ego yeah he's very proud does that make sense because like if any of us were in trouble right and we pray to god please come save us an angel comes and saves us we'd be eternally grateful right we'd be like oh wow i would now dedicate myself to loving god for the rest of my life and i will spread this message and and virgil is like and what and what does virgil say when the angel arrives what does he say and do what does he say do when angel came and saved you what's the least you can say thank you thank you man does virgil do this he doesn't he doesn't do anything he doesn't say anything okay meaning he's tough and this is telling us he's not actually happy about any of"
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    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "time_label": "1:04:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "this right does that make sense he's not happy about this yeah the problem is solved he couldn't get through the gates of this an angel came to help him out but he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything he's not happy about anything because virgil is first and foremost obsessed with control his ego his pride right he wants to be the top dog he wants to be one in charge he wants to be the hero and so this is very embarrassing for um virgil okay so he's putting his own feelings before the larger mission of getting dante to heaven right because if you are really focused on the mission and there's an angel who opens the gates what what should you say to this angel and if you were really focused on the mission if you really wanted"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:05:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "dante to ascend to heaven and an angel has come and saved you what would you say to him you say thank you first of all and like what else yeah man hey hey you're going to heaven right hey take that away with you right look seriously you came over from heaven you have to go back just take that away with you problem solved i completed my mission does it make sense the fact that he doesn't say thank you the fact that he doesn't even ask the angel for more help suggests that virgil first and foremost cares about his ego right he wants to he wants to be the one to take dante throughout hell has he has dante how well does virgil know hell how well does virgil know hell very well like how well has he been everywhere in hell has he been into the deepest darkest areas of hell yes even to satan"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #6 (Sunday, June 21 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "do you understand okay so he knows hell very very well okay so he knows how to traverse hell and he himself has said that he's been to uh every part of hell even in the deepest darkest circle of hell all right so again this is making us wonder who virgil is what his motivations are and what yeah okay so so hicidden people her so youruste'shit are gonna tell you hopefully a lot more and um yeah that's that's really where they find you in the video the best way for them likes and on read and i just wanna tell you if you want to followhrise you don't really need to but the are lots of like good short videos on youtube that introduced inferno because it's a it's a very simple section that's compared with paradise okay paradise is hard that's why we have spent a lot of time in paradise but inferno is actually pretty"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "simple okay so make sure like you um to"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "learn about uh inferno okay yes there a reason why i do feel you know going from paradise to inferno inferno it's much more i wouldn't call it approachable but it's easier to kind of go through and kind of follow the story as opposed to the concepts that you have to grasp in paradise yes right like literature wise is there like a it's been intended that way i think it is because"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y_GezhRJr0&t=4114s",
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      "start": 4114.31,
      "end": 4178.58,
      "time_label": "1:08:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "remember um what donald will do is first publish the inferno okay and at this time in history donna is not a well -known person he's not a very powerful person right so he wants to make sure that first of all whatever he writes is appealing right that people will want to um read it and buy the manuscript but also he's trying to um establish himself in a larger poetic tradition right and that means using famous people like virgil right so like if if if if it's like dante in hell like who cares right but it's like virgil taking dante in hell that's an actually interesting cell to people okay so so so so for him it's like you know how does he get people interested in a story he's trying to convey and that's why as you point out the story in inferno it's much more interesting it's much more visual than paradise okay but"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "ultimately he wants us he wants to take us all to paradise and to do that you first need to uh establish a really compelling story okay with really famous people okay so uh and honestly this is why uh in universities it's mainly inferno that's taught and not paradise okay because paradise it's actually much more it's really philosophy as opposed to literature whereas inferno it's very literary okay it's a great story lots of interesting characters it's very visual it's very funny it's very interesting okay so thank you for that but again we're trying we're trying to really understand uh dante's cosmology okay yes um"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "dante's inferno reminds me a lot of uh the chinese uh novel journey to the west in the way that it's first of all they're both a journey second of all they both meet monsters and demons and angels and myth mythic creatures and third of all they have a very big impact on the society and the culture and they're both really old um yeah like for example the way that journey to the west is interesting to read because you know they're fighting demons and uh they're going on a journey it's in this in a similar way inferno is interesting to read because you know there's this master he's bringing this other person on a journey and they're trying to get to a destination"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "time_label": "1:11:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "yeah you know you're absolutely right in that uh inferno it there's much more of a narrative angle to it right whereas in paradise it's basically just philosophy"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "very much like some kind of uh role -playing philosophy uh yes yeah but there's a very big difference is uh the monster in the western journey uh they are all being protected by by the god by by the you know some god is but in the you know uh funnel we can see that it's impossible right because demons or angel they are quite a different world they can't just take control over each other but i think maybe that is quite quite different yeah okay all right all right any other"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "more questions or comments okay all right so to summarize we need to go very fast for the last half of this seminar and so you will have to do a lot more work okay so we review what we learned so far and on YouTube there are lots of tutorials lots of like good intro videos that introduce to you inferno okay as well as so so so let's yeah so just make sure you understand and prepare and this will allow for much richer discussion okay and again inferno is not that hard to understand as compared with paradise and that's why I hope that you're more able to contribute individually to it so the game plan for the last half of this seminar is for us to imagine you know if you want to do a lot more work and you want to do a lot more work that each and every one of us will leave"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-0y-gezhrjr0",
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      "start": 4363.66,
      "end": 4414.08,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "the seminar and we will teach it to someone else okay it could be it give you your students because your teachers but it could also be your friend it also be your child it could also be your mother okay and it doesn't matter okay but imagine yourself after you leave the seminar teaching it to someone that you love and what I'm going to do is rather just focus too much on the literary meaning of the text because we've done paradise which is the hardest and so everything else that follows should be pretty simple what I'm going to focus more on is giving you the tools to expand your imagination as well as to teach others okay that's why I wanted to do compare contrast today compare contrast is one most effective tools that you can use so that we can just say okay well to understand why rain is such an interesting punishment let's move"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dido, Reflective Hell, and Virgil's Embarrassment",
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      "time_label": "1:13:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "other punishments right okay so I'll be doing more of these pedagogical techniques and then I'm going to trameration the deck on bothijdos right we are going to draw hands on trees and then we're going toınız okay and then we are going to see how long can the record it'sObjective is called what else is possible okay and then we are going to learn about the politics and okay and so come in with a spirit like I'm not here to debate you I'm not to argue you I'm here to learn how to teach this to others okay so that's the last half of our seminar okay we are we clear we've done the hardest part we've done paradise we now know exactly what this poet Magina do we We have a good conception. Now our goal is to teach it to others. All right? OK, I'll see everyone tomorrow. Thanks. Yes? Yes?."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:14:41",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Great. OK. Great."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:14:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Two more reasons."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "0:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, are we ready? Okay, okay. Good morning. We are live. So, today is a special day because this is a day when we meet God. And we are now in the last four cantos, 30, 31, 32, 33. And we are in the Imperium, which is the seat of God. So, we will be doing a lot today, but I just want to first make sure there are no questions, issues from the previous four days. Are there any questions you have about what we've learned so far? Anyone? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So, I remember last time we were talking about how the angels' existence are really not that admirable. Like, you don't want to be an angel. But when I... went back and when I read the part about describing angels, I think Dante was actually trying to be a little bit tongue -in -cheek here. Like, he was trying to say that it's not great to be an angel without saying that... without explicitly saying that being an angel is not that desirable. Is that what he's trying to do?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah, so the thing about Divine Comedy that's very important to appreciate is that it's all very subtle. And there's a really important reason for the subtlety. How... So, do you guys know how people learned Divine Comedy or how they transmitted Divine Comedy back then for hundreds of years? Like, if you were in school and we had to learn Divine Comedy, how would we learn it?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So, according to what I remember, like, the teacher would have one book and he would read it, and he would read it on the podium, and you listen and you copy it down."
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      "text": "And then what would you do? You memorized it, do you understand? Okay? So, remember how... before we said that Divine Comedy is meant to be read aloud and listened to? Well, it's also meant to be memorized. And what's happening is that Divine Comedy is designed to expand your imagination. And obviously, as you memorize Divine Comedy, it's like Shakespeare, right? If you memorize Shakespeare, your fluidity in English language increases, but so does your imagination. And what increases the imagination is the subtlety. The subtlety embedded within Divine Comedy, because you actually don't know what you've memorized. But over time, because it is implanted in your brain, almost as an operating software, the more experiences you have, the more questions you have, the poem expands in your imagination. It's infinite. And then it drives you into greater imagination yourself. And that's why I say that Divine Comedy is really the... the basis of the Renaissance. Because if you"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "start": 192.37,
      "end": 255.365,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "just look at any Renaissance painting, you can trace it back to a line or a tercet in Divine Comedy, right? And what's happened is that line has expanded itself inside the brain. And it's almost like seeds taking root and just growing into trees. And so that's what the effect of Divine Comedy is. And it works because of paradox and subtlety. If it's too blatant, if it's too in your face, then your mind doesn't focus it on as much, okay? But because it's so subtle, you feel as though there's some stuff I have not yet discovered, right? It's like a puzzle you're trying to assemble together. Your brain keeps on working subconsciously on it for like 40, 50 years. And that's really the power of Divine Comedy. And that's why it's really hard for people to express the impact of Divine Comedy, because it works at a subconscious level. And this is what Carl Jung would refer to as the collective unconscious, okay?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "It's really the very basis of modernity. Look, the reality... Look, if you think about it, the reason why we're able to sit down together and have these very rich discussions about the Divine Comedy, what enables this discussion is the fact that Donny created modernity itself, right? Created the idea of individuality. Created the idea of debate, dialogue, okay? So we are living in Donny's world, and we basically have minds that are shaped by Donny himself, alright? Does that make sense? Okay, any more questions before we continue, before we begin? Alright, so now what I want to do is I want to look at a comment from YouTube that I found very interesting, okay? And it's from YouTube. It's just a comment. It's a very long comment. So here it is. Carol, could you do me a favor and read the comment? And this goes back to discussion from last class, which is the coin."
    },
    {
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      "start": 319.07,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "What is the coin doing in heaven? What is its purpose, right? The coin is meant to be a metaphor for faith, but that doesn't really make sense because the coin represents something material. And this person has a very interesting explanation. Okay, can you read, Carol? Yeah."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "start": 341.31,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "In Paradiso, Canto 24, right at line number 24, Beatrice officially hands Dante over to St. Peter to initiate the examination. In Alan Mandelbaum's translation, that exact line reads, and tests him as he pleads on matters grave. Dante deliberately places the word tested at line 24 inside Canto 24, inside the sphere of the 24 elders, the traditional symbol of the codified, closed scriptural canon. He is screaming to the reader that he's stepping into an institutional trap. This directly mirrors the structural constraints found in the original four gospels, the Peter paradigm. The entire miracle of the coin in the fish's mouth begins precisely at verse 24. Here, the establishment corners Peter to demand, and institutional tax. Dante mirrors this textually. The exact disciple who watched Jesus bypass human currency by extracting it from nature is transformed in Canto 24 into the ultimate papal gatekeeper, demanding a standardized church coin from Dante's purse. The interrogation blueprint, this verse"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "establishes the scriptural precedent for institutional authorities demanding official credentials from a wild spiritual force, stating that the Pharisees questioned him. Dante uses his own line 24 to step into this exact role, submitting to Peter's interrogation on paper to satisfy the religious empire. The illusion of the purse, here, Jesus stuns the disciple by declaring how difficult it is for those reliant on physical coins and institutional currency to enter the kingdom. Dante plays on this irony by using purse imagery to satisfy Peter, knowing full well that in the infernal, purses are the exact symbols used to damn corrupt popes. The trap of power. At the Last Supper, a dispute arises among the disciples as to which of them was considered to be the greatest. The disciples were already craving an earthly hierarchy. By looking at the textual architecture of the comedy, we can see Dante was playing a master level game. He knew that physical institutions and dogmatic checklists were destined to crumble."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "By using the stamped coin at line 24, Dante wasn't blindly submitting to church dogma. He was using the empire's own currency to smuggle his formless cosmic fire past the medieval gatekeepers."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, yeah, so this is brilliant, okay? And it shows you the level of complexity of the divine comedy. All right, so let me make certain points. Point number one is, last class, we appreciated how the literary analysis of divine comedy, how deep it is at a literary level. And you can only understand that if you understand the Italian, right? Here, this person is pointing out to the numerology of the divine comedy. The numerological structure of it. 24, you may not know this, but 24 is a very important number for a variety of reasons. But 24 doesn't just refer to the Bible. What it really is referring to is the classic epic poems of the world at this time, which are Homer, the Iliad, the Odyssey, and Virgil's Iliad. These are all written in 24 books. Okay, so 24 is almost like a divine, mystical number at this point. So that's why it's important. So the numerology is something that you can spend decades examining."
    },
    {
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      "start": 575.27,
      "end": 643.37,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And obviously, he's doing that. Second point is how subversive divine comedy is. So we look at divine comedy at a pretty simplistic level. But if you just go line by line, you can see how divine comedy is constantly subverting itself. How your interpretation is breaking down if you do more and more analysis. And that's intentional. And the reason why he does that is to make divine comedy infinite universe, where you can go back and explore forever. And the third point that's very important to appreciate is that ultimately, what Dante wants is for us to always question authority. To question not just Peter, to not only question the church, but to also question Dante. And ultimately, to question ourselves. To create a constant, almost an infinite process of self -inquiry, self -debate, and self -discovery. And that's why you can spend your entire life just reading divine comedy at multiple angles."
    },
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      "start": 643.55,
      "end": 698.46,
      "time_label": "10:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And it's never enough. So the ultimate goal of our seminar is just to introduce you to divine comedy. Do not believe that I'm giving you the final interpretation. Okay? That's silly. This comment shows you how complicated divine comedy is. Okay? But I'm providing you a framework in order for you to engage your own process of self -creation, self -discovery, when you journey into divine comedy. Right? Because once you have the framework, it allows you to better understand and journey through divine comedy. But then, as you journey some more, you will break down this framework and create your own framework. Okay? This is a process that Harold Bloom, the great Yale literary scholar, refers to as creative self -destruction. Okay? Right? Yes?"
    },
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      "start": 699.19,
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      "time_label": "11:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So after you read the comment about St. Peter, I'm actually inspired to ask a question. So yesterday, we talked about how Peter was pointing at the Vatican on Earth. And he was going, ah, these guys are nasty. But Peter here himself, by asking Dante, the pilgrim, about the coin, is also complicit in what the church is doing. So what point is Dante trying to make here? Is he trying to say that St. Peter is criticizing the church? Is he trying to say that St. Peter is the church? Or is he saying that St. Peter is a mix of the two?"
    },
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      "start": 732.91,
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      "time_label": "12:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. What makes Dante very hard for people to understand is at the heart of Dante is his democratic spirit. Okay? He is absolutely anti -power, anti -hierarchy, anti -status. Right? So the idea that after Jesus died, Peter will then become the first pope, Dante finds this perverting Jesus' legacy. Because Jesus came to our world and sacrificed himself in order to free us, to liberate us. From power itself. Right? And then for Peter to say, well, I was closest to Jesus. Because remember, after he died, the apostles fought over his legacy. Dante felt this is a perversion of the message of Jesus. Okay? The message of Jesus is that there is divinity within us. And if we look into us, we can liberate ourselves. We don't need God. We don't need hierarchy. We don't need the church anymore. Okay? That's the ultimate message of Jesus. And that's what Dante is trying to do in the Divine Comedy as well."
    },
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      "start": 810.88,
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      "time_label": "13:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I learned from a Yale scholar. Great question, Rene. So I was looking back at Yale Professor Mazotta's interpretation of this canto. And there are tons of paradoxes, including the coin. And so on verse 37, 38 of Canto 24, Do test this man concerning the faith by which you walked upon the sea. Ask him points light and grave, da, da, da, da, da. So I don't know if you remember from the Bible that Peter was actually quite doubtful when Jesus asked him to walk upon the sea. He actually didn't have sufficient faith until Jesus is like, why aren't you going there? And then he ended up doing that. But I think it's also very human. It's also very human. And I think that's one of the paradoxes things."
    },
    {
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      "start": 872.77,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And it's ironic that Peter is the one who asked about faith. Because if you read the Gospels, Peter is the one who has the least faith in Jesus. Right? And that's what Jesus tells Peter. And so there's so much irony embedded in the Divine Comedy. Okay. Any more comments or questions before we move on? Okay. So something really interesting happened yesterday while you guys were on a break. And one of you wrote a poem. Okay? And I don't want to put you in a spot, but I ask for your permission and we're going to read the poem together. Okay? So can you come please and help us read the poem? Well, first of all, introduce yourself and tell us the background as to how you came to write this poem."
    },
    {
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      "start": 922.86,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Yeah. My name is Jay Ong. How I came to write this poem. I had some time to kill in my hotel room yesterday. And I, you know, obviously being away from family, it's Father's Day weekend, it's kind of difficult. So, you know, decided to make something in the spirit of Dante, in the spirit of hope for, you know, for my kids. Yeah. So that's where this comes from."
    },
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      "start": 950.99,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. So can you just read us a poem tonight?"
    },
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      "time_label": "15:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "For far in the glass room, no hu jang. No can ching rain on the stones, no green hu dang. Just quiet. Sorry. Just quiet and a week in the old poet's country of light. Learning the sea between us. There it was. Learning the sea between us. Is a. Is a. Sorry. Is a. What was that? My own writing. It's a trick we keep playing. The souls that look scattered. Each. Each one on its own. Not split at all. One light. Tak ada yang hilang. This is in Malay, too. So. So you are. You are near. Though the South Sea is between us. Glass rooms. Glass room. Far light. And still. The jalan pulang. And love. The poet says. Moves the sun and stars. And binds. The loose pages of life. Into one. From a hawking mountain. To green water. The long climb came. Only to. Stand up. In you. Three of you. Each holding a different measure."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0023",
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      "start": 1057.84,
      "end": 1082.92,
      "time_label": "17:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "None holding half. Each of you hold. The way a man once. Crossed this. Dark sea. To his son. With nothing to give. But I see you. Climb. Jangan hilang. That's all. That's all. Sayang. From the. Far edge of. Of it all. Um. As we. Turn. Through the dark. Up. The long climb hope."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
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      "start": 1083.53,
      "end": 1090.99,
      "time_label": "18:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Great. Thank you so much. That was beautiful. Okay. All right. So. Um. Can you tell us what the poem is about?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0025",
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      "start": 1091.8,
      "end": 1103.72,
      "time_label": "18:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Um. It's about. For me. It's about. Um. Um. Being away. And I'm trying to convey. Uh. To my kids. Why I'm away. And uh."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0026",
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      "start": 1105.52,
      "end": 1161.98,
      "time_label": "18:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah. Okay. So. You see. What's happened. Is that. He could only write this poem. Because of his love. For his children. Right. This. This. Cosmic connection. With. His children. And. That's why. We need. To recognize. That. For Dante. Beatrice. Is a real person. Okay. So. They didn't know each other that. That well. They met when. When they were eight or nine. Spent a few years together. Then they. They. They went apart. They. They were apart. And then Beatrice died when she was like 24. Okay. So the time they actually spent together. Was not that much. But when we read Divine Comedy. She comes across. As a real person. And. For Dante. She was a real person. Uh. She was in constant. Constant communication. With her soul. It is possible to do this. Like. Where you're not even together. She may not even be. Alive. She was not alive. But. With your imagination. With your. Love."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0027",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=1162s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0027",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0027",
      "start": 1162.06,
      "end": 1229.5,
      "time_label": "19:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "You can. Be. In communication with her. Across dimensions. Okay. And that's what drives the poetry. All right. That's why. Love has to be between. Two people. It can't be between. You and God. It can't be between. Between. You and money. Or anything material. It has to be between. Two people. Okay. And. And. Uh. You focus your. Love. In a way. And. Directed a person. Your. Imagination. Just explodes. Okay. That's what drives. Your imagination. All right. So. This is a testament. To that. So. Thank you very much. All right. Okay. So. We are now. In. Heaven. And when we're in heaven. There's a problem. Because. In heaven. There's no time. Okay. But if you can't. Perceive. What's the only way. That you can. See then. If you can't. Perceive. Excuse me. Imagine. No. You don't. No. Not imagination. Right. What?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0028",
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      "start": 1229.9,
      "end": 1233.46,
      "time_label": "20:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Um. You can. Use. Your. Spiritual. Spidey. Senses."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0029",
      "start": 1235.72,
      "end": 1311.35,
      "time_label": "20:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. Well. That's actually a word. For. Spiritual. Spidey. Sense. It's called what? Hmm? Intuition. Or what? Uh. Intuition. Well. What's behind your intuition? Come on guys. Like. Your. Your. Your. Intuition. Your. Spidey. Sense. What do we call that? How. How do you see. You can't see. You feel. Yeah. Exactly. Thank you. Yes. Your emotions. Right. Okay. So. In other words. When he goes to heaven. He can't actually. See anything. But. Because it's so blinding. It's so beautiful. Okay. But he can feel it. And so. What he's trying to do is convey. Uh. Heaven. To us. Through his poetry. And. Um. So. What heaven is. Is. Our happiest. Moment. It is pure bliss. Pure joy. Pure happiness. Okay. So. To start the class. I want us. To. Think. All. Our happiest. Memory. A memory. That brings. Constant. Delight. To us. As we think more and more about it. And then that helps us better understand. The."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0030",
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      "start": 1311.41,
      "end": 1322.8,
      "time_label": "21:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Architecture. Of heaven. Okay. So. I'm gonna write this down. All right. And like. Again. Uh. I just want. Happy memories. Your happiest memory. Okay. Anyone. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "start": 1323.24,
      "end": 1323.6,
      "time_label": "22:03",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Uh."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "start": 1324.08,
      "end": 1342.58,
      "time_label": "22:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "I remember. That one time. When. I was. Okay. This sounds silly. But I was in primary school. And the teacher was about to. Punish someone. Unjustly. For something. That. He wasn't really at fault for doing. And I stood up to. The teacher. And I told her. That's. That's stupid. And everyone. In the class. Cheered for me. And in the end. The guy didn't get punished. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "start": 1342.7,
      "end": 1360.14,
      "time_label": "22:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "That's a great memory. Yes. Thank you. Right. Your. Selfless. Generosity. Okay. Selfless. Sacrifice. That's rewarded. All right. That's one good memory. Yes. That's a great memory. By the way. Beautiful. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
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      "start": 1362.72,
      "end": 1368.93,
      "time_label": "22:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yes. Uh. I remember. When I was. First time. In New York. I. I. Saying. Everything. Is. New. Everything. Is. Different. This."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1385.86,
      "end": 1388.6,
      "time_label": "23:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yes. What else. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
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      "start": 1388.84,
      "end": 1399.66,
      "time_label": "23:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "For me. It was. After. The IB. Exams. I finally. Got to sleep. For 12 hours. And when I woke up. It was. The happiest. Feeling. I've ever felt. Okay."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "start": 1399.7,
      "end": 1415.66,
      "time_label": "23:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "We call this. Relieve. And release. Right. Relieve. And release. So. The idea. Is. You know. For. Quite a few months. You were nervous. And all this tension. Built up. In. In you. Right. And then you were able to. Release it. Good. What else. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0038",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0038",
      "start": 1416.64,
      "end": 1441.52,
      "time_label": "23:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Um. So. I would like to share. My experience. Of getting my. My dog. Because it was really special. For me. I have been. Like. Basically. Begging. My parents. To have. A dog. For such a long time. And. We were going to adopt. But. There were. Always. Things. In the way. So. We couldn't get a dog. And finally. I did. Um. During my first year. In middle school. And that was really. My happiest memory. I'm so glad. That I have my dog. Right. Yeah."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0039",
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      "start": 1441.8,
      "end": 1450.96,
      "time_label": "24:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "So. It's idea. Wish fulfillment. Right. You have a wish. This is something. That you. Always wanted. And it. Fulfills itself. So. Wish fulfillment. Good. What else. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
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      "start": 1452.24,
      "end": 1459.72,
      "time_label": "24:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "To return home. After. A year. Of studying abroad. And stuff. Like. The minute. I hit the airport. I'm like. Yeah. I'm back."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1460.1,
      "end": 1470.98,
      "time_label": "24:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Exactly. Right. Returning home. Right. I would say. Returning home. Yeah. Exactly. What else. Yes."
    },
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      "text": "When I first. Met my. Jazz piano hero. For the first time. In his live show."
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      "end": 1499.75,
      "time_label": "24:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Right. So. So. There's. A concept. Flow. Right. Which is. Intense. Focus. Or. Devotion. To. Your passion. Okay. Yes. So. Flow. Yes. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "If. I may. I think. This. Counts. Inside. Of. Really. Being. In the flow. But. Especially. I'm. Really. Into. Mathematics. And. When. I. Understand. A really. Difficult. Mathematics. Concept. I feel. Really. Happy. And. Because. I have. A lot. Of. Friends. Around. Me. That. I can. Really. Talk. About. This. Kind. Of. Stuff. With. Them. It. Makes. Me. Feel. Makes. Me. Feel. Very. Good. That. I'm. Actually. Able. To. Understand. All. Of. This. And. Able. To. Talk. To. People. About. It. That. Really. Understand. What. I."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 1529.32,
      "end": 1564.82,
      "time_label": "25:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah. I. Wouldn't. Say. This. Is. Flow. I. Would. Say. This. Is. More. Like. Self. Creation. Okay. Yes. Anyone. Else."
    },
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      "end": 1569.09,
      "time_label": "26:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "I'm. Curious. About. What's. Your. Happiest. Name."
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      "end": 1576.87,
      "time_label": "26:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Well. Well. Obviously. My. Children. Yeah. When. I'm. With. My. Children. Yes. Anyone. Else. Yes."
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      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "I."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 1578.49,
      "end": 1611.9,
      "time_label": "26:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Remember. Like. Back. Then. I. Met. This. Girl. Online. And. I. Just. I. Just. And. I. Feel. Like. Like. My. Soul. Ecstasy. And. My. Soul. Fumbles. And. Back. To. We. We. Didn't. Even. You. Know. So."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
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      "start": 1612.14,
      "end": 1625.7,
      "time_label": "26:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "I. Understand. Thank. You. Okay. This. Is. A. Connection. Right. Connection. Right. Also. Community. All. Right. Yes. Thank. You. Anyone. Else. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 1627.36,
      "end": 1677.97,
      "time_label": "27:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "I. Was. Born. Raised. In. My. And. The. Neighborhood. And. To. The. Community. So. I. Felt. Most. Excited. And. Most. Happy. When. I. Won. Those. You. Know. Awards. And. In. Those. Competitions. In. My. Home. Town. And. Bring. Honor. To. My. Family. And. My. School. And. The. Whole. City. So. I. Couldn. Imagine. Something. Even. Greater. Than. That. So. For. Me. It's. To. Be. In. The. Right. Community. And. To. Supported. And. To. To. Lead. That. Community. And. To. Bring. Honor. To. That. Community."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1678.94,
      "end": 1688.9,
      "time_label": "27:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Great. Yeah. So. This. We. Will. This. Recognition. And. Validation. Right. You. Are. Recognized. For. Your. Achievements. And. You. Are. Validated. For. Them. Good. Okay. Great. This. Is. A. Lot. Anyone. Else."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
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      "start": 1701.67,
      "end": 1708.51,
      "time_label": "28:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Like. Sometime. In. An. Museum. I. Can. Experience. Kind. Of. Transcendental. And. Mysterious. Aesthetic. Experience. Yeah."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 1708.57,
      "end": 1754.98,
      "time_label": "28:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Beauty. Right. When. Consider. Something. Beautiful. You. Are. Very. Happy. Okay. So. Yeah. We. On. Going. Okay. But. You. Get. That. Sense. Of. What. Happiness. Is. Right. And. What. Heaven. Is. Is. Every. Second. There's. Just. Continuous. Happiness. Right. So. Think. Of. Your. Happiest. Moment. And. Then. Just. Think. That. This. Goes. On. Forever. Okay. So. That's. What. Is. All. Right. Let. Ask. You. A. Question. Let. Me. Now. Ask. You. A. Question. Are. There. Any. Songs. Or. Poems. Or. Artwork. That. Triggers. Your. Happiness. Okay. Like. What. Are. They. Yes."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1755.6,
      "end": 1759.76,
      "time_label": "29:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Hyper. Specific. Medieval. Illuminated. Manuscripts."
    },
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      "time_label": "29:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. Sure. Okay. Manuscripts. Okay. Sure. Okay. What. Else."
    },
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      "start": 1774.45,
      "end": 1778.36,
      "time_label": "29:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Yes. I. Say. House. Music. House. Music."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. All. Right. Yes."
    },
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      "start": 1788.06,
      "end": 1795.4,
      "time_label": "29:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_19",
      "text": "I. Would. Say. Some. Like. Really. Classical. Music. Like. Really. In. The. Middle. Ages. But. Maybe. Not. That. Really. Yeah."
    },
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      "start": 1795.94,
      "end": 1796.5,
      "time_label": "29:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "What. Else."
    },
    {
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      "end": 1809.09,
      "time_label": "29:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Me. Is. A. Novel. But. It. Has. Really. Beautiful. Prose. And. It. It. The. Words. Are. Used. In. A. Way. That. Are. So. Unique. And. Creative. That. It. Shocks. You."
    },
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      "time_label": "30:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Good. Okay. So. Guys. Music. Is. Thing. That's. Going. To. Trigger. Your. Happiest. Memories. And. Probably. Also. Your. Other. Memories. As. Well. But. So. That's. What. Don. Is. Gonna. Do. He's. Going. To. Construct. Because. He. Doesn't. Remember. Anything. Okay. Don. Is. Gonna. Keep. On. Saying. About. This. How. He. Goes. To. The. Imperium. And. He's. Gonna. Meet. God. It. Doesn't. Remember. Anything. Because. It. Is. So. Blinding. Because. It's. So. Beyond. Time. And. Space. Okay. But. What. He. Has. Is. The. Emotions. With. It. And. From. These. Emotions. He's. Gonna. Reconstruct. Reimagine. His. Experience. In. Imperium. In. A. That. We. Can. Appreciate. And. He's. Gonna. Design. The. Poem. With. The. Music. In. A. Way. That. Triggers. Our. Happiest. Memories. So. That. We. Can. Experience. With. Him. The. Imperium. Okay. Does. That. Make. Sense. Okay. All. Right. So. We. Now. Move. Towards. Cancel. 30. The. Imperium. Okay. Again. We. Saw. The. Angels. We. Turning. A. Long. Way. Through. The. Cosmos."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0063",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=1877s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0063",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0063",
      "start": 1877.54,
      "end": 1933.23,
      "time_label": "31:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And. Now. We. Are. Finally. In. The. Imperium. And. Again. What. Is. Paradoxical. About. Heaven. Is. That. There. Is. In. Fact. A. Hierarchy. Right. Just. Because. You. Go. To. Heaven. Doesn't. Mean. That. You've. Succeeded. Because. There. Are. Some. Really. Dumb. Kids. In. Heaven. Okay. Like. Picarda. And. The. Hierarchy. Of. The. Heavens. Also. Suggests. That. There. Are. Certain. Things. That. You. Have. To. Doubt. For. Example. Why. Is. Peter. Right. Why. Is. He. Outside. The. Imperium. Right. That. Makes. You. Question. A. Of. Things. He. Says. So. Again. There's. So. Much. Subtlety. There's. So. Much. Nuance. There's. So. Much. Paradox. Divine. Comedy. It. Forces. You. Into. A. Lifetime. Of. Self. Inquiry. Okay. All. Right. So. So. Let's. Lead. Read. Paradise. 30."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0064",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=1934s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0064",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0064",
      "start": 1934.72,
      "end": 1973.47,
      "time_label": "32:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Canto. 30. Perhaps. 6,000. Miles. Away. From. Us. The. Six. Hour. Burns. And. Now. Our. World's. Inclines. Shadow. To. An. Almost. Level. Bed. So. That. The. Span. Of. Heaven. High. Above. Begins. To. Alter. So. That. Some. Stars. Are. No. Longer. To. Be. Seen. From. Our. Deep. Earth. And. As. The. Brightest. Handmade. Of. The. Sun. Advances. Heaven. Shuts. Off. One. By. One. Its. Lights. Until. The. Lovely. Loveliest. Is. Gone. So. Did. The. Triumph. That. Forever. Plays. Around. The. Point. That. Overcame. Me. Point. That. Seems. Enclosed. By. That. Which. It. Encloses."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0065",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=1973s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0065",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0065",
      "start": 1973.67,
      "end": 2020.83,
      "time_label": "32:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "The. Point. Of. Course. Refers. To. God. Okay. And. What's. Really. Important. Understand. Is. Like. God. Is. Both. Being. And. Becoming. Okay. So. God. Is. A. Source. A. Big. Bang. But. Also. God. Is. The. Perimeter. Okay. All. The. Universe. Right. And. How. Do. We. Expand. The. Perimeter. Of. The. Universe. The. Imagination. Do. You. Understand. Okay. So. We. Humans. And. This. Is. What's. Really. Shocking. About. Don. Is. That. He's. Saying. That. We. Humans. Participate. In. The. Creation. Process. Ourselves. Whenever. We. Use. Our. Imagination. And. What. He's. Gonna. Say. That's. Even. More. Controversial. Is. That. Only. We. Can. Do. This. Okay. Not. The. Angels. Not. God. Nothing. Else. But. Human. Okay. All. Right. Keep. On. Going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0066",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2026s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0066",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0066",
      "start": 2026.92,
      "end": 2081.17,
      "time_label": "33:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Fade. Gradually. From. My. Sight. So. That. My. Seeing. Nothing. Else. And. Love. Compelled. My. Eyes. To. Turn. Again. To. Beatrice. If. That. Which. Has. Been. Said. Of. Her. So. Far. We're. All. Contained. Within. A. Single. Praise. It. Would. Be. Much. Too. Scant. To. Serve. Me. Now. The. Loveliness. I. Saw. Surpassed. Not. Only. Our. Human. Measure. And. I. Think. That. Surely. Only. Its. Maker. Can. Enjoy. Fully. I. Yield. I'm. Defeated. At. This. Passage. More. Than. A. Comic. Or. Tragic. Poet. Has. Ever. Been. By. Barrier. In. His. Theme. For. Like. The. Sun. That. Strikes. The. Frailest. Eye. So. Does. The. Memory. Of. Her. Sweet. Smile. Deprived. Me. Of. The. Use. Of. My. Mind. From. That. First. Day. When. In. This. Life. I. Saw. Her. Face. Until. I. Had. This. Vision. No. Thing. Ever. Cut. The. Sequence. Of. My. Song. But. Now. I. Must. Assist. From. This. Pursuit. In. Verses. Of. Her. Loveliness. Justice. Each. Artist. Who. Has."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0067",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2081s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0067",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0067",
      "start": 2081.29,
      "end": 2082.61,
      "time_label": "34:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Reached. His. Limit. Must."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0068",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2082s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0068",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0068",
      "start": 2082.77,
      "end": 2126.42,
      "time_label": "34:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. So. Beatrice. And. Dante. Have. Reached. Imperium. This. Is. Journey's. End. And. It. Is. Love. For. Beatrice. That. Has. Carried. Him. Anyone."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0069",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2129s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0069",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0069",
      "start": 2129.79,
      "end": 2133.01,
      "time_label": "35:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Describe. Beatrice. Or. Is. What. He. Wants. To. Do."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0070",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2133s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0070",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0070",
      "start": 2133.11,
      "end": 2148.11,
      "time_label": "35:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "He. Wants. To. Write. Poetry. To. Beatrice. Right. Do. Understand. For. Him. Your. Fullest. Expression. Of. Your. Love. Someone. Is. To. Your. Imagination. To. Express. The. Poetry. Because. What. Because. Why. Would. You. Want. To. That. Why. Would. You. Want. To. The. Poetry."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0071",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2148s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0071",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0071",
      "start": 2148.55,
      "end": 2148.83,
      "time_label": "35:48",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Because."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0072",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2153s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0072",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0072",
      "start": 2153.18,
      "end": 2160.2,
      "time_label": "35:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "You. Help. To. Express. How. Much. Love. You. Have. For. This. Person. Or. How. Awesome. Wonderful. This. Person. Is."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0073",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2160s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0073",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0073",
      "start": 2160.42,
      "end": 2181.86,
      "time_label": "36:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Right. So. Poetry. Is. The. Highest. Expression. Of. Your. Love. For. Someone. But. Why. Is. That. The. Case. Yes. To. Connect. To. Unify. With. Those. Who. You. Love. To. Connect. With. Those. Who. You. Love. And. Also. To. Show. Your. Love. And. Brings. Others. Into. This. Love. As. Well. You. Understand. That's. What. Poetry. Is. Doing. Yeah. Yeah. Of. Course."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0074",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2182s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0074",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0074",
      "start": 2182.58,
      "end": 2186.84,
      "time_label": "36:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "It. Immortalizes. Love. Kind. Of. Life. That. She. Experienced. On. It."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0075",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2187s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0075",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0075",
      "start": 2187.28,
      "end": 2208.83,
      "time_label": "36:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "That's. Right. Right. To. Share. Your. Love. Across. Time. And. Space. Okay. So. That's. What. Wants. To. Do. What's. His. Problem. Is. A. Problem. What. What's. A. Problem. He. Spent. His. Entire. Life. Writing. Love. Poetry. To. Beatrice. In. Order. To. Immortalize. Her. In. Order. Immortalize. Her. Love. Their. Love. But."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0076",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2233s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0076",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0076",
      "start": 2233.29,
      "end": 2247.23,
      "time_label": "37:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "What's. So. That. Is. Why. But. You. Know. The. Love. Is. Something. That. You. Cannot. You. Cannot. Touch. You. Really. Want. It. But. You. Cannot. Touch. That. Is. Love. You. Can. Touch. It. Not. Love. This. Kind. Of. Responsibility. And. Have. To. Pay. Everything. For. Her."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0077",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2247s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0077",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0077",
      "start": 2247.69,
      "end": 2260.25,
      "time_label": "37:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "My. Point. Being. That. Ideally. You. Want. To. Marry. Someone. You. Love. And. If. You. Break. The. Vows. Of. Marriage. Which. By. The. Way. You. Made. To. God. Because. You. Met. Your. Soulmate. Then. You. Are. Also. Betraying. God. In. Process."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0078",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2261s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0078",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0078",
      "start": 2261.62,
      "end": 2317.69,
      "time_label": "37:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. Sorry. Um. Okay. Ideally. Okay. But. In. The. Real. World. There. Are. Things. Such. As. Class. Hierarchies. There. Are. Lots. Of. Constraints. Right. So. So. Um. Beatrice. And. Donny. Came. From. Different. Class. Backgrounds. And. In. Culture. All. Marriages. Are. Arranged. Right. There's. No. Dating. Market. It's. Like. You. Don't. Go. Online. Says. Um. And. Love. Is. The. Expression. Of. Beauty. And. Truth. Okay. All. Right. Okay. So. The. Question. Is. What's. The. Problem. Here. He. Wants. To. Write. A. Poem. To. Beatrice. He. Wants. To. A. Verse. But. There's. A. Problem. What's. The. Problem."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2318s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0079",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0079",
      "start": 2318.39,
      "end": 2318.59,
      "time_label": "38:38",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "I."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 2319.07,
      "end": 2328.97,
      "time_label": "38:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Mean. In. The. Poem. He. Does. Say. Right. I. Must. Desist. From. This. Pursuit. In. Verses. Of. Her. Loveliness. Just. As. Each. Artist. Who. Has. Reached. His. He's. Reached. His. Limit. Yeah."
    },
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      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 2329.07,
      "end": 2331.68,
      "time_label": "38:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "But. Why. Has. He. Reached. His. Limit. Because."
    },
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      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 2332.14,
      "end": 2338.96,
      "time_label": "38:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "She's. Heavenly. And. He's. Earthly. And. Can't. Like. Fully. Express. How. Good. She. Is. He. Ran. Out. Of. Words. For. Maybe."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 2339.8,
      "end": 2386.39,
      "time_label": "38:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. Well. That's. True. But. It's. Not. Because. He's. Earthly. And. She's. Heavenly. Right. It's. Because. In. Their. Ascent. Beatrice. Has. Become. More. Beautiful. Over. Time. Right. And. So. Once. We. Reach. This. Point. He. Now. Has. Reached. The. Limit. Why. Should. We. Not. Believe. Him."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 2388.48,
      "end": 2390.84,
      "time_label": "39:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Because. There's. No. Real. Limitation. For. The. Imagination."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "time_label": "39:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Exactly. First. Of. All. There's. No. Limitation. Also. He's. Not. Modest. Man. That. Is."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0086",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=2421s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0086",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-r526-wug3me@transcript:v1#seg-0086",
      "start": 2421.22,
      "end": 2450.52,
      "time_label": "40:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Not. There. A. Herald. That. Is. Greater. Than. My. Trumpet. Which. Nears. The. End. Of. Its. Heart. Theme. With. Voice. And. Bearing. Of. A. Guide. Whose. Work. Is. Done. Began. Again. From. Matter's. Largest. Sphere. We. Now. Have. Reached. The. Heaven. Of. Pure. Light. Light. Of. The. Intellect. Light. Filled. With. Love. Love. Of. True. Good. Love. Filled. With. Happiness. A. Happiness. Surpassing. Every. Sweetness. Here. You. Will. See. Both. Ranks. Of. Paradise. And. See. One. Of. Them. Wearing. The. Same. Aspect. Which. You. Will. See. Again. At."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0087",
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      "start": 2470.52,
      "end": 2512.41,
      "time_label": "41:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "The. Good. Love. Filled. With. Happiness. A. Happiness. Surpassing. Every. Sweetness. It's. Like. A. Song. Okay. It's. A. very um lyrical song that conjures up our our best memories okay again we don't have the italian but if we did i think that's what that's what would happen okay it's it's like the highest possible um vibration okay it's very light very lovely pure joy so imagine angels singing okay this poetry is really angels singing together okay um keep on going verse 46 yeah 46. okay"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "start": 2514.14,
      "end": 2567.84,
      "time_label": "41:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "like sudden lightning scattering the spirits of sight so that the eye is then too weak to act on other things it would perceive such was the living light encircling me leaving me so enveloped by its veil of radiance that i could see no thing the love that calms this heaven always welcomes into itself with such a salutation to make the candle ready for the light of the day for its flame no sooner had these few words entered me then i became aware that i was rising beyond the power that was mine and such new vision kindled me again that even the purest life would not have been so bright as to defeat my eyes deny my sight and i saw light that took a river's form light flashing reddish grow reddish gold between two banks painted with wonderful spring flowerings out of that stream there issued living sparks which settled on the flowers on all"
    },
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      "time_label": "42:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "sides like ruby said in gold and then as if intoxicated with the olders with the odors they again plunged into the amazing flood as one spark sank another spark emerged the high desire that now inflames incites you to grasp mentally the things you see pleases me more as it swells more but first that you may satisfy your mighty thirst you must drink of these waters so did she fall into the water of the holy water of the holy water of the holy water of the holy who is the son of my eyes speak to me she added this the river and the gems of topaz entering and leaving and the grass is laughter these are shadow shadowy prefaces of their truth not that these things are lacking in themselves the defect lies in you whose sight is not yet that sublime"
    },
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      "time_label": "43:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "okay so he says this he's reached the limit of his imagination you can't describe his beauty anymore and now what uh beatrice is saying to him is that to truly experience god you need your imagination to be limitless right and so drink from the light uh did you have a question yeah i have a question like"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "44:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "uh personally i find this thematically a little bit weird so earlier on he was talking about circles of angels and about light and about beatrice being so great that he can't describe her and we have to notice that these are all very abstract things like he literally cannot conceptualize them in physical matter anymore however here he can suddenly conceptualize things again he's suddenly talking about the river and about the flower banks so what prompted this shift and what place does it have here um i i don't i don't agree with"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "44:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "you i think he's always been able to visualize this i think this is a very visual poem right i mean like just look at the artwork from here i mean it's it's pretty visual so at no point did he actually lose his imagination when when he's saying i've reached the limit of my imagine of imagination it's just it's just telling um us and him we need to work harder guys this is a quote this is a co -creation process not only do i have to like work harder to create the words to describe my experience but you have to devote yourself further and invest your imagination further to really truly appreciate what i'm saying okay all right so the idea here is that he's reached the limits of his imagination and so what does beatrice tell me to do not the water what does what must he drink the light okay and it is but"
    },
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      "start": 2738.71,
      "end": 2744.65,
      "time_label": "45:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "it is metaphor described as water because why would he do that what is you what is"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "45:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "he really describing here um i remember in the bible in the new testament the samaritan woman and jesus said if you follow me i will give you the living water so maybe it's a metaphor for that"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "45:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "yeah it's it's a baptism right it's an initiation into faith okay right does it make sense like when you when you absorb this light it is giving you a new faith a new life to truly activate your imagination because that's what you'll need if you're truly to meet god it doesn't make sense okay let's let's keep on going verse 82."
    },
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      "time_label": "46:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "yep no infant who wakes long after his usual hour would turn his face toward milk as quickly as i hurried toward that stream to make still finer mirrors of my eyes i bent down toward the waters which flow there that we in them may find our betterment but as my eyelids eaves drank of that wave it seemed to me that it had changed its shape no longer straight that flow now formed around then just as massacres when they set aside a the borrowed likeness in which they hide seemed to be other than they were before so were the flowers and the sparks transformed changing to such festivity before me that i saw clearly both"
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      "time_label": "47:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "of heaven's courts okay so as he's drinking the light his very perception of the heavens are changing okay so this is extending his imagination this is transcending his imagination so now he can he actually see heaven okay and when he sees heaven he can now just"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "drive heaven to us 97 o radiance of god through which i saw the noble triumph of the true realm give to me the power to speak of what i saw above on high there's a light that makes apparent the creator to the creature whose only peace lies in his seeing him the shape which that light takes as it expands is circular and its circumference would be too great a girdle for the sun all that one sees of it derives from one light ray the light of the sun is reflected from the summit of the primum mobile which from it draws power and life and how as a hill is mirrored in waters at its base as if to see itself when which with grass and flowers grazed so in a thousand tears that towered above the light and circling it i saw mirrored all of us who have one return above and if the lowest"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "rank and gathers such vast light then what must be the measure of this rose where it has reached its highest point highest leaves within that breadth and height i did not find my vision gone astray or it took in that joy in all its quality and kind there near and far do not subtract or add for where god governs with no mediator no thing depends upon the laws of nature and so the yellow of the eternal rose that slopes and stretches and diffuses fragrance of praise unto the son of endless spring now beatrice drew me as one who though he would speak out it's silent and he's and she said see how great is this council of white robes see how much space our city's circuit spans see how our seated ranks are now so full that little room is left for any more and in that seat on which your eyes have fixed because"
    },
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "end": 3011.18,
      "time_label": "49:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "a crown already waits above it before you join this wedding feast shall sit the soul of noble henry he who is on earth to be imperial he shall show italy the righteous way but when she's unready the blind greediness bewitching you has made you like the child who dies of hunger and drives off his nurse and in the holy forum such shall be at the prefect then that either openly or secretly he will not walk with henry but god will not endure him long within the holy ministry he shall be cast down there where simon may mages pace he shall тями force the anagnin deeper into his home."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 3011.34,
      "end": 3081.105,
      "time_label": "50:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, all right. So again, now Dante is able to see the pyramid in its entirety. And it's basically like two roses, and in the rows are seated those who are closest to God. And we'll see their ranks later on. And this will be the last time that Beatrice will speak. And again, they're in the Imperium. And what Beatrice is talking about is a prophecy, okay? So this is, again, the year 1300. Dante will finish this in 1321, but he's right in the year 1300. A few years from now, Henry VII, the Holy Roman Emperor, will invade Italy and try to unify Italy. And then he will be betrayed by the Pope, Clement, okay? So what Beatrice is saying is that noble Henry has this divine mission, okay? He's almost like sent by God to lead Italy in a righteous way. But unfortunately, Italy was not yet ready for the grace of God."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 3081.105,
      "end": 3159.07,
      "time_label": "51:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And so he was betrayed, and he failed in his mission. And so the person who... who is responsible for this failure is Clement, and God will punish Clement as Simon Magus was punished as well. If you know Catholic theology, you know that Simon Magus is a heretic, right? The first great heretic of the Catholic faith. And so it's troubling because we are now in heaven, right? And heaven is supposed to be the happiest memories, right? This pure happiness. And... And Beatrice is being angry. She's clearly angry about what's going to transpire. And so what's going on here? What... How can we explain or reconcile this paradox where she's in heaven, and this is the happiest memories of the happiest people. There should be no hatred. There should be no anger. Yet, in her final words to Dante, she tells him a prophecy. A prophecy of betrayal, of hatred. What's going on here? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So, like I said last time, I think maybe it's because Dante isn't here to stay. Like, he isn't here to bathe in happiness and to stay an angel or whatever he's doing. He is here to carry a message back to earth. And that's why she's telling him all this. This is like the secrets. This is like the top, the Pentagon secrets. And they're telling him this. They're telling him this in front of God, like at the preface of God, because that's the most secret layer. And she's telling him this so that he can carry the message back to earth."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And what is his message?"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "The message that all this is going to go down, and Henry is actually a nice guy and all that."
    },
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "time_label": "53:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Well, Dante knows that."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Well, he knows that, but the people who read it don't know that."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "53:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Right, because he's reading this in 1321. He's seen everything that transpired. He was the one who wrote letters to Henry praising him for his efforts. But again, it's like... We're in heaven, and we're taught that in heaven, you're able to let go of your bad memories, right? You're able to embrace your good memories. This is clearly a bad memory. What's going on here? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "53:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "I think maybe also Dante is trying to weave his own political views into this story, just because I'm not sure, since this is, after all, his imagination."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "53:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah, so this is what most scholars believe, okay? Most scholars believe that Dante has this political... And he's trying to settle scores. But for the past week, I've been telling you guys that let's work the assumption, let's work with the faith that this poem is perfect, and that everything in it makes sense. And as long as we're able to imagine hard enough, have enough faith and hope and love, we can make sense of what's really going on, okay? And to say, well, you know, he was just angry. And his political vendetta, yeah, it does make sense. But I want to try harder, okay? I want us to use our imagination and figure out what's really going on here. Why is Pietro's last words to Dante full of anger and hatred? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "54:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So this is probably a really far -off explanation, but I can remember, like, both in my life and in the Bible, some cases when your anger is... So righteous, like, sometimes it's the anger of God, and it's so righteous that it feels like joy. It feels like you're... It feels like you're reveling in your anger, and you know that what you're angry towards is right."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah, so you're saying that Beatrice is... Anger makes her happy."
    },
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      "time_label": "55:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Hmm."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Huh. Yeah, that's a possibility. But let's keep on using our imagination, right? Okay. Okay, all right. So let's go to the year 1300, okay? And you are a Catholic believer. What do the Church Fathers teach you about evil in this world? Yes? The year 1300, guys, not today, okay? Catholic Church is very different, yes? Evil comes from Satan. Right, but what do you do about evil in this world?"
    },
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      "time_label": "56:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Seven deadly sins."
    },
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      "time_label": "56:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No, I'm saying, like, if you see evil, if evil happens to you in this world... What do you do?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "There will be just retribution, but you may not need to do it. There would be a divine plan for it."
    },
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      "time_label": "56:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Um, okay. There's actually a much simpler explanation. What are people literally taught at this time in history about evil and injustice?"
    },
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      "text": "I think people have just been taught, do not just against God, not against the Church. But he just, I think the Dante just against Church, so maybe he's saying this is quite evil. Uh, yes?"
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      "text": "Because persecution is a way to make you grow, and, like, do not take things into your own hands. Like, it's God's job."
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      "text": "Yes?"
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      "text": "It's all part of God's plan."
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      "text": "Uh, no, no, no, no. There's a really simple logic at work here, okay?"
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      "text": "Yes? Just, like, evil is within us, so it's normal to occur."
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      "text": "But where does the evil come from?"
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      "text": "From the... The first, uh, sin, like Adam eating the apple?"
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      "text": "I understand that, but that was, like, 10,000 years ago. So, why is there still evil? Okay, so this is hard, okay? But at this time in history, what the people were taught is this. We are all born in sin because, or the original sin, because, and that is transmitted to us through our bodies, right? Right? What do our bodies want? Our bodies want sex. They want money, right? Okay? But, our bodies... Our bodies are just temporal things. We all have our bodies for 50 years, 100 years at most. Basically, 40 years, okay? 40 years in the grand scheme of things is nothing, right? So, put up with this persecution, put up with this evil, put up with this injustice for 40 years. You die, you go to heaven, and all you do is experience pure bliss. Pretty simple deal. It's a pretty good deal, right, guys? You see evil around you. You see injustice."
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      "text": "You see sin. Don't worry about it. It doesn't matter. What matters is your salvation. And your salvation demands that you keep yourself free of sin. Okay? Yes?"
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      "text": "So, what you're saying is basically Dante doesn't agree with that? Exactly."
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      "text": "He completely disagrees with that. What's he really saying? When you see evil, you should do something."
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      "text": "You should do something about it."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No, no, no. But I'm trying to explain why Peaches is, like, in her final words to Dante, cursing, like, these people, right? Saying, Clement, he's gonna burn in hell, and, like, the people in Italy are ungrateful. Why is she doing that? Yes?"
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      "text": "So, I'm confused about something you just said. So, you said that Dante is against the keep -yourself -pure doctrine of the church, and he's against passivity, like, he's not doing nothing. Yeah, he's against? Yeah, that's what you said. But a couple of classes ago, you told us about all that hope and light stuff. And when I asked you why Dante wasn't proactively trying to do some things, and you said, oh, he's acting in hope and light. And when I asked you what that means, you said that it means that he's acting inwards, and he's not acting outwards. So, I want to ask you how to reconcile this. Like, he's both doing something, and he's against doing nothing."
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      "text": "Okay. So, first of all. You don't appreciate. In our world, the greatest action you can take is to use your imagination. Okay? That's what he's going to reveal to us. The greatest act you can take, okay, is to use your imagination. Which means that being a poet is the greatest thing you could possibly ever aspire to. There is no greater people than poets in this world. Okay? Not prophets. Not Jesus. Not conquerors. Not Napoleon. Not Charlemagne. Not Julius Caesar. Always. Okay? That's what living a life of faith, hope, and love is really about. To write poetry that expands the human imagination. Okay? All right? So, let's go back to the original question. Why is Beatrice bitching about the world in heaven? Yes?"
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      "text": "Maybe he's mad like this, saying that some people are so heavenly bound that they are not of no earthly origin. So, he's criticizing people who are thinking about heaven, but not doing anything about the earth."
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      "text": "Exactly. Yes. Exactly. What Donnie's trying to say is that, guys, it's not that earth is a prison, and once we do our time, we can go into heaven. That's not how it works. That's all connected. Okay? What happens in heaven happens on earth. What happens on earth happens in heaven. As above, so below. As above, so below. Does that make sense? As below, so above. It's all intertwined together. Just, Beatrice cannot be happy in heaven, because we're so screwed up on earth. You understand? And because we're so screwed up on earth, we screw everything up. So, don't be like, you know what? I see evil, but I'll just go lie in my bed for the next 40 years, and then when I die, I'll experience bliss in heaven. That's not how it works, man. That isn't. If there's evil on earth, there has to be evil on earth. There has to be evil in heaven."
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      "text": "And that's why she's angry. It doesn't make sense. Okay? That's a message Dante has for us. As above, so below. As below, so above. It's all intertwined together. So, Dante is trying to destroy the escapist mentality, the defeatist, escapist, pessimistic mentality of the people at this time. Right? You have to do something. Yes?"
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      "time_label": "1:02:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Does that mean... The... The... Does that mean the earth, heaven, and hell is all connected? Yes. It's all intertwined together. Yes. So, there must be things in hell and evil in hell. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Therefore, there will be things and evil in earth, and there will be things and evil in heaven. I don't understand. So, there must be things and evil in hell, right? But they are all connected. So... Do... Do you get what I'm saying?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:03:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "But I think it's connected in an emotional way, not in like the sin in hell transcends to heaven, like you're saying, but it's the sins in hell and on earth that upsets heaven, maybe. Right? Like emotionally, Beatrice is mad, but mad is not."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:03:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_19",
      "text": "Yeah. Like, Professor, maybe I have a question that I may need you help me to clarify some concept about the difference between, like, what we have happens on earth and what happens on the heaven. Because if you're saying that, like, no matter where we are, we can all feel or perceive there's good in, there's kind of, or there's evil on both earth and heaven, then how could the heaven and we live in the real world different? Or in other words, like, if we can feel, we can both feel the same thing on earth and heaven, then how could those parts essentially different from each other?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. So the difference between earth and heaven is that heaven is spiritual. Okay. So we are souls. Right? Earth, we have bodies. Do you understand? That's the difference. Okay. So what we experience on earth is different from what we experience in heaven. And what Donnie is going to discuss is, okay, why does the heaven and earth have different Why does it have to be this distinction? Right? Why is it that we're given bodies? And again, in the year 1300, the Catholic Church teaches you that we have bodies because we are a failed science experiment. Okay? Do you understand? All right? What Augustine writes is that, what are we made of? What are we made of? No. That's not what the Bible says. What does the Bible say? We are made of what?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "We're made of dirt. Dirt, man."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "We are pieces of dirt. That's what we are. So how can we do anything right? And that's like literally what the Bible says. We are made of dirt. Augustine says that then if we are made of dirt, that just means that we are a failed science experiment. Okay? God didn't mean to create us like this, but he did. And now we're completely screwed up. He has to put up with us. Okay? And so we just have to like endure. We just have to like be patient. And then once our bodies wither away and we, our souls can now escape to heaven, we're made of dirt. And then we'll have eternal bliss. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3948.64,
      "end": 3962.44,
      "time_label": "1:05:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "But that makes very little sense given that first, dirt was created by God. So technically it's also a creation of him. And second, God kind of molded the first man himself. So if it's God doing the creating, even if it's from dirt, then how could it be wrong, man?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:06:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Look, look, look, look, look. Okay. I do not want this to like be a theological class. Okay? What I'm telling you is what people in this time believed. And what I'm trying to tell you is how Dante responded. How he responds to this. You understand? I don't want to have this argument. Okay? You don't have to go over it. Go back in time and go argue with Augustine. Okay? All right. Let's continue, please."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Conto 31. So in the shape of that white rose, the Holy Legion was shown to me, the host that Christ with his own blood had taken as his bride. The other host, which flying, sees and sings the glory of the one who draws his, draws its love. And that goodness which granted it such glory, just like a swarm of bees that at one moment enters the flowers and at another turns back to that labor which yields such sweet savor, descended into that vast flower grazed many petals, then again rose up to the eternal dwelling of its love."
    },
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      "start": 4040.97,
      "end": 4061.87,
      "time_label": "1:07:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. So there are two roses. And these two roses are like stadiums where all the best people are placed. And again, this creates a paradox. Because why do the people of the Catholic Church, why do they have to do this? Why are they in one rose and then everyone else is in another rose? Okay? So there are these paradoxes that make you question the orthodoxy at this time. Keep on going, Carol."
    },
    {
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      "start": 4064.49,
      "end": 4123.29,
      "time_label": "1:07:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 13. Their faces were all living flame. Their wings were gold. And for the rest, their white was so intense, no snow can match the white they showed. When they climbed down into that flowering rose, from rank to rank, they shared that peace and ardor which they had gained, with wings that fanned their sides. Nor did so vast a throng and flight, although it interposed between the candid rose and light above, obstruct the sight or splendor, because the light of God so penetrates the universe according to the worth of every part, that no thing can impede it. This confident and joyous kingdom, thronged with people of both new and ancient times, turned all its sight and ardor to one mark. O threefold light that, in a single star sparkling into their eyes, contents them so, look down and see our tempest here below. If the barbarians, when they came from a region that is covered"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "every day by hellas, who wheels with her loved son, were seeing Rome and her vast works struck dumb, when of all mortal things the Lateran was the most eminent, then what amazement must befell me when I to the divine came from the Lord. To the human, to eternity from time, and to a people just and sane from Florence came. And certainly between the wonder and the joy, it must have been welcome to me to hear and speak nothing. And as a pilgrim in the temple he had vowed to reach, renews himself, he looks and hopes he can describe what it was like. So did I journey through the living light, guiding my eyes, from rank to rank, along a path now up, now down, now circling round. There I saw faces given up to love, grazed with another's light and their own smile, and movements grazed with every dignity. By now my gaze had taken in the whole of paradise, its form in general, but without looking hard at any part."
    },
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      "start": 4185.34,
      "end": 4192.92,
      "time_label": "1:09:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "And I, my will rekindled, turning toward my lady, was prepared to ask about those matters that inclined my mind to doubt."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:09:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so Dante now has the vision to see the entirety of Imperium. The seat of God. And he is bewildered, he is amazed, he is stunned by what he has seen. And he is filled with tremendous joy and happiness. And so what he wants to do is share it with Beatrice. He's turning to Beatrice, he wants to lock eyes with her, and they want to smile together in order to share this greatest of joys of being in the Imperium. But, she's now disappeared. Okay, keep on going."
    },
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      "start": 4231.28,
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      "time_label": "1:10:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 15. Slide 18. Where I expected her another answered. I thought I should see Beatrice and saw an elder dressed like those who are in glory. His gracious gladness filled his eyes, suffused his cheeks. His manner had that kindliness which suits a tender father. Where is she? I asked him instantly. And he replied, that all your longings may be satisfied. Beatrice urged me from my place. If you look up into the circle that is third from that rank which is highest, you will will see her on the throne her merits have assigned her. I, without answering, then looked on high and saw that round her now her crown took shape as she reflected the eternal rays. No mortal eye, not even one that plunged into deep seas, would be so distant from that region where the highest thunder forms. As there, my sight was far from Beatrice, but distance was no hindrance, for her semblance reached me undimmed by anything between."
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      "start": 4290.55,
      "end": 4322.09,
      "time_label": "1:11:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "O lady, you in whom my hope gained strength, you who for my salvation have allowed your footsteps to be left in hell. In all the things that I have seen, I recognize the grace and benefit that I, depending upon your power and goodness, have received. You drew me out from slavery to freedom by all those paths, by all those means that were within your power, do in me preserve your generosity so that my soul, which you have healed when it is set loose from my bosom, may be saved. May the grace of my body be a soul that you will welcome."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:12:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so what's happening is that Dante has reached Imperium. He is about to meet God, which will be his happiest moment. And obviously, he wants to share it with Beatrice. He's also grateful for Beatrice, who has taken him from hell all the way up to heaven, okay? It's Beatrice, his love for Beatrice that has guided him throughout all this time. His journey for the gospel, his journey from hell to purgatory to heaven, it's all because of Beatrice. And at this moment, when he is about to meet God, something has happened. She's been switched, okay? She's returned to her seat in the rose, and she's been replaced by another guy, Bernard, okay? And Bernard is the one who will take Dante to meet God. This is like really, really, really confusing. Like who, first of all, who the hell is Bernard, okay? We know who Virgil is, we know who Beatrice is, we don't even know who Bernard is."
    },
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      "start": 4392.28,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And like, why make this switch at this crucial time when we are at the climax, when we are at journey's end? Right? Why would this happen? Any theories before we continue, yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "1:13:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So first I have a question. So when we're talking about Bernard, I'm pretty sure it's okay to assume that they're a saint, right?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so some background, okay? Bernard is a saint of the Catholic Church. And what makes him important is, he's almost like the first love poet of the Catholic Church, in the Catholic tradition, okay? Does that make sense? He is one of the co -founders of the Knights Templar. So there's a lot of romantic stories behind him. He, what makes him important? What makes him interesting is that he wrote love poetry to Mary. Not Jesus, not God, but to Mary, okay? And I mean, the standard explanation for why Bernard is a God is because Mary is the Queen of Heaven. There's God, but the Queen of Heaven is Mary, okay? So basically, Bernard is Mary's servant, and so Bernard will use Mary's power in order to help Dante see God completely. Did you have a question?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 4487.93,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "My theory is like that. Dante is very modest, so he wants you to see..."
    },
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No, no, no, Dante is not modest. Very arrogant. Dante is the opposite of modest, okay? You will not meet a less modest person than Dante. But keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "So he wants, he's trying to show that he's joining the royal family, and the royal family ranks with the most famous poets in the world?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "But Bernard is not one of the most famous poets in the world."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "The first love poet in like, in the church?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "1:15:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, right, so, yeah, right. So first of all, he's paying homage to Bernard, right? He's saying, like, you come, I come from this legacy which you started, which is love poetry. The difference is, like, I'm not, I'm actually loving a real person, and you, you love, you know, someone else, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 4534.43,
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      "time_label": "1:15:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So I think something that's important to realize here is actually something I learn in medievalism. So during the Middle Ages, even the late Middle Ages, love, when used in this context, is not always about sexuality. It's not always about husband and wife."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "1:15:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "It's actually the opposite. This is the courtly love tradition, right?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 4552.79,
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      "time_label": "1:15:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "But the courtly love tradition is one part of the Middle Ages. It's not all the Middle Ages. The whole idea of a feudal structure is founded upon the fact that you love your feudal liege, like you love your wife and you love your parents. It's like a feudal version. That's the first point. And the second point is that Wikipedia says here that Bernard is also a reformer of the Benedictines. And so I'm thinking maybe Dante could be hinting at the fact that he is advocating for a type of reform. These are the two points I was going to make."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "start": 4588.95,
      "end": 4622.05,
      "time_label": "1:16:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No, but I understand that. There's lots of reasons. I'm saying the main reason that most people agree on is... First of all, Dante's paying homage to Bernard. The other reason is that the queen of heaven is Mary, and Bernard is considered her greatest earthly servant, okay? Those are the most two accepted reasons. But again, I have a problem understanding why is he making this transition. You have Beatrice? Yes? Sorry, sorry, sorry. At the back, and then you..."
    },
    {
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      "start": 4622.05,
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      "time_label": "1:17:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Probably because his love for Beatrice has reached its peak. And so he cannot... Use love as a force to ascend. So they need a switch person for him to love someone else and then ascend."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 4634.91,
      "end": 4641.33,
      "time_label": "1:17:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Can you explain? Try to explain this, okay? Elaborate on this idea."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "end": 4664.85,
      "time_label": "1:17:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "Because basically we were in heaven and he was saying all great things about Beatrice and idolizing her. And so it seems like it reached a peak and it cannot be better. And so as we said, love was the force guiding him. And because it's a peak... To meet God, he would need, like, another, like, more of this force. So switching the person could be a way to ascend."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "1:17:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so that's interesting, okay? So let me add to what you're saying, okay? To make sure I'm following your logic. So love is the force that got him to this point. But love can't take him further. Is that right? Okay. So he needs another force to take him to God, okay? And what do you think this force will be?................ Not desire, what? Huh? What? Imagination? Yeah, okay. So he was sitting in here. He knows the answer, okay? Love can only take you so far, but if you really want to transcend, it has to be the imagination, okay? So that's a force that's going to take him to the highest heights, okay? Love got him this far, but to go even further, you need the imagination. Okay, does that make sense? Okay, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4715.92,
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      "time_label": "1:18:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "I was going to say exactly that because also in the text, he replied... that all your longings may be satisfied so i think that like beatrice has sort of like satisfied all his like you know love towards her already so that's why she has to return and also i have a theory that like because he's going to meet god and meet mary right and he is essentially a poet and he wants to share this with the world so he needs to consult with like a poet like bernard sort of like draw from him to expand his imagination to be able to describe the following process if that makes sense and has funny doesn't doesn't like this before"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:19:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "which can sort of a poet in order to increase his imagination yeah so he kind of like so that's why"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:19:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "bernard appears to him because he's like this great uh love poet so yes he had virgil before"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:19:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "in hell um well we'll we'll discuss this starting tomorrow okay but but he's he actually doesn't consult virgil for his poetry okay um anyone else okay so so i i want to us to think about this okay this is like really hard but i want us to think about this okay imagine you have the world's greatest mother okay which is like carol right obviously thank you but she's been with you all this time and she's taking care of all your needs if you are truly to like like you know like this she's fed you the best food she's taught you the best poetry she's loved you throughout okay if you are to truly grow as a person what must you do eventually you have to me you have to like leave man you have to like try to go away leave me alone mom okay that's that's what fanny's doing right now right he's saying"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "beatrice you've taken me so far and i can't do this without you i couldn't reach this point about you but now i must do this myself okay so this is a really hard question but i'm saying like okay so so let's connect everything together um you have to leave your mother at some point you have to leave someone you love at some point and we've reached a point where love can only take us so far and now the imagination must take over okay why allows for the imagination that created conflict with love this is a hard question okay but think about this okay when you love someone and when you imagine there has to be it's it's there's a contradiction okay and how and so why how can this concentration be resolved by switching"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "beatrice with bernard love is focused on one person and imaginations more diverse and switching with bernard because bernard is a poet so what is love what is love it's an action and it has to be"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "directed towards a person a real thing object when you love a child what are you doing you hug him"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "kiss him feed him good food yes okay okay so so sorry but like when you wrote the poem when you wrote the poem okay yep how do you feel about yourself while you you were writing the poem"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "i wasn't thinking of myself i was"
    },
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      "text": "exactly i was not thinking of myself you understand that's the trick guys i was not thinking of myself that's what love is i don't think myself i give myself i think of the other person and i become nothing i lose my ego right what's the imagination exactly you're expressing yourself okay that is the contradiction right so when donna is with beatrice he cannot think of himself has to think of beatrice he's giving himself because he's so much in love with beatrice and that's what allows him to climb to heaven that's what allows him to leave hell journey for purgatory and climb heaven but now that you must meet god now that you must fully exercise your imagination you must retain your ego you must express your ego you must manifest your ego and and why would this be a problem if you are a priest or you know you're a catholic"
    },
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      "text": "please at this time initially yes because people were taught to um lose your ego and be humble"
    },
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      "text": "like jesus was yes yes um because you're not allowed to marry and you're definitely not allowed"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "to express your love towards a soul mate we don't know that okay but yes what the church tells us is that you must be humble because your ego is a source of all evil in this world does it make sense and what donna is like no guys that's not how it works your ego is the source of your imagination and you can imagine good or you can imagine evil you imagine evil there's gonna be evil but if you imagine good there's me good okay you understand but if you want to truly meet god you truly understand the world you must use your imagination all right that's the logic here okay again he now must switch to bernard so the so the pro i mean like it doesn't really matter who bernard is but he does make the switch if he is truly to meet god yes so this is something i didn't get so earlier"
    },
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      "start": 5103.73,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "you said that dante believes that uh people can only love other people they can't love concepts like god and when they love other people their love excites their imagination and their imagination brings them closer to god so why is dante right now replacing the person he loves with this crusty old guy he has no feelings towards like oh how is he trying to explain why he loves this crusty old guy he has no feelings towards like"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "his imagination to meet god here there's no love here okay so what love does is expand your capacity to use your imagination right but now you must use your imagination therefore you must focus on your ego to understand the only way to obtain love okay as a fuel for your imagination is by being selfless by giving yourself right to not think of yourself to think of others now you have all this right now you're going to use this fuel in order to project your imagination to understand god but to do that you have to embrace your ego okay you and what god is going to do is in the final canto he's going to show that he's better than god he's superior to god because god does not have imagination he does okay all right okay so we clear about this okay so again there's a scholar scholar explanation but then um there's my explanation"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "so do as you will okay all right let's keep on going"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "verse 91 so did i pray and she however far away she seemed smiled and she looked at looked at me then she turned back to the eternal fountain okay so this is almost like a graduation right where"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "you know like you're maybe the school valedictorian and you just have this entire speech saying you're like i love you mother and everything i i am i am because of you but what you're really saying is like i've grown up now i'm going to leave you mother okay sorry all right all right yeah yeah let's yeah okay yeah let's keep on reading um"
    },
    {
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      "text": "verse 94 and he the holy elder said that you may consummate your journey perfectly for this both prayer and holy love had sent me to help you let your sight fly around this garden by gazing so that you may be more ready to ascend through god's own ray the queen of heaven for whom i am all flame with love will grant us every grace i am her faithful bernard the queen of heaven is"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "mary okay um why is this a paradox or a problem in the catholic church uh yes um mary is the virgin"
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      "text": "mary and uh she is kind of she carried god's son okay he carried god's son and she's the virgin mary she's a virgin forever and right here bernard you're here writing love"
    },
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      "text": "poetry about her um yes because what we're supposed to believe in is the holy trinity not mary yes"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "exactly because the king of heaven is jesus not mary okay but jesus jesus isn't even here it's mary that's here this is a paradox why aren't wasn't bernard invoking jesus right no no no she"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "is mary the queen of heaven okay let's keep on going verse 102 to 103. just as one who from croatia perhaps has come to visit our veronica one whose old hunger is not sated who as long as it is shown repeats these words and thought oh my lord jesus christ true god was then your image like the image i see now such was i as i watched the living love of him who in this world and contemplation that that peace and he said son of grace you will not come to know this joyous state of your eyes only look down at the base but look upon the circles look at those that sit in a position more remote until you see upon her seat the queen to whom this realm is subject and devoted i lifted up my eyes and as at morning the eastern side of the horizon shows more splendor than the side"
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      "text": "where the sun sets so as of climbing with my eyes from valley to summit i saw one part of the farthest rank of the rose more bright than all the rest and as on earth the point where we await the shaft that beefen had misguided glows brightest while to each side the light shades off so did the peaceful or flame appear brightest at its midpoint so did its flame on each side taper off at equal pace i saw around that midpoint festive angels more than a thousand years ago and as on earth we see the same name now the sun has set and it is now a great day the one of the stars and her milk and the flowers are still shining bright even in the world how lovely for her to guide me and to see the way her love lighted up the inside of me her love the light of the dead"
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      "text": "as bright as the day of the sun the light of the world with such affection that he made mine gaze still more ardently."
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      "text": "Okay, let's keep on going, okay? Okay."
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      "text": "Canto 32. Though he had been absorbed in his delight, that contemplator freely undertook the task of teaching, and his holy words began, the wound that Mary closed and then anointed was the wound that Eve, so lovely at Mary's feet, had opened and had pierced."
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      "text": "Oh, wow, okay. Okay, let's, these three lines are really important, okay? Let's try to figure this out. Where, we met Adam, right? We met Adam in heaven. Where is Eve? Where is Eve right now? No, but I'm saying where is she right now? At Mary's feet, do you understand? Mary's the queen of heaven, and Eve is right beside her, so lovely at Mary's feet, next to the queen of heaven, okay? Right? Okay? The wound that Mary closed and then anointed was the wound that Eve had opened and had pierced. What does this mean? Yes?"
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      "text": "The wound at Mary's feet, I think, is sin, because Eve..."
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      "text": "Eve is responsible for the original sin, and..."
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      "text": "So, basically, Mary used to have sin, but since Mary's purified, Mary closed the wound."
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      "text": "Yeah, this is really hard, okay? But, like, it's actually telling you exactly what's going on, okay? It's hard because of kind of dissonance. It goes against everything you've been taught, right? We know that Eve was responsible for the original sin, which was disobedience, which was pride, which was eating the fruit, okay? What did Mary do?"
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      "text": "Jimmy? Mary gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus died for the original sin to be forgiven."
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      "text": "So, who's responsible for redeeming us? Mary. Mary. This is what she's saying here. No, I'm sorry. This is what Donnie's saying here, okay? It is Mary that redeemed us, not Jesus, yes? Why isn't it Jesus? Well, that's what we have to figure out, okay? Why is it Mary and not Jesus, yes?"
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      "text": "I also wonder what Eve had opened and had pierced is some veil, and that is a continuum between God and human, that he pierced by partaking that fruit."
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      "text": "Yeah, she broke the love and the bond between God and us, right? And Mary closed it. Mary married, repaired the bond. So, she redeemed us. But how does it make any sense? Because it was Jesus that redeemed us, right? It was Jesus that repaired the bond. That's what we were taught. What Donnie's saying is, like, no, it was Mary, guys. It was Mary that did this."
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      "text": "So, I'm going to try a rudimentary understanding here. So, Mary gave birth to Jesus. So, basically, what Donnie is trying to say here is that Mary is the ultimate source of Jesus who saved us. That's the first part. And the second part is that Jesus is a man, and he cannot be a mother. And so, his love towards everyone, his love towards his believers is abstract. Like, it's not visceral. It's not visceral. Like, a mother's love towards her children. And what Donnie is trying to invoke here is Mary's love, the motherly love, the purest love that God has given us."
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      "text": "Okay. What is the greatest miracle in human history? What is the greatest miracle? What defies our explanation?"
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      "text": "So much people believing in Christianity."
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      "text": "Well, I mean, if you're a Christian, you don't think that's a miracle. You think that's just natural, right? Because we're the truth. And so, yeah, of course, everyone should believe us. Could you repeat? Yes."
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      "text": "The incarnation. The virgin birth."
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      "text": "Okay. Guys, there are two miracles, right? First of all, Jesus sacrificed himself for us, okay? A God killed himself for us. Then you had a woman give birth to a God, which is a great miracle. I'm the second one, man. Right? Right? Like, how is it possible for, like, a mortal woman to give birth to a God? Right? How is it possible, then? What enabled Eve to give birth? Yes?"
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      "text": "So for Mary's case, maybe it was her faith, her willingness to be a vessel for God that has showed her from the initial sin."
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      "text": "Exactly. Do you understand? Eve was proud, and she disobeyed. She lacked faith in God. Mary had complete faith in God. And that's what redeemed us. The complete and utter faith in God is what redeemed us. Not the sacrifice of Jesus, but the complete and utter faith of Mary. That's what he's saying here. Okay? Which means what? Which means that we redeemed ourselves. We have the power to redeem ourselves. We never needed Jesus. We just have to believe in Jesus, and Jesus would come to redeem us. But first, you have to believe we could be redeemed. Then we could be redeemed. Okay? So you see what's happening, where before, you were taught to be passive, to be humble, to accept the will of God. And now you're being taught, no, you have to be active. You have to use your imagination. You have to use your faith if you are to better the world."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
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      "start": 5876.053,
      "end": 5899.54,
      "time_label": "1:37:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And the example is Mary. Mary. That's why she's the queen of heaven. Because she was the most virtuous of all of us. And if she were not that virtuous, she could not have possibly given birth to Jesus. Okay? This is pretty mind -blowing, right? I mean, like, what do you think?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 5899.6,
      "end": 5932.88,
      "time_label": "1:38:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "I think later the Catholic reforms and everything to do bringing Mary to a higher point like Dante has, that's why we see a lot of paintings where Mary's holding baby Jesus, and Mary's more exalted in a way. And Jesus, in a lot of these religious paintings, is because of the fact that the Catholic Church also sort of agree, well, later on, with this idea that she's the new Eve. Yeah. She's quite elevated. Exactly. Jesus is the new Adam."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 5932.92,
      "end": 5976.39,
      "time_label": "1:38:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Exactly. So rather than just say, this is all heresy. Let's just burn all this, right? It's like, no, he's right, okay? That's a power of poetry, right? That's a power of art. Because it shocks you into a new tool that you must, you know, accept. It may take time, but it will work, right? So this is why starting tomorrow, we will learn, like, the real battle is actually between the Catholic Church and Dante. It's actually between Virgil and Dante, okay? But first, we want to learn about the cosmology of Dante, okay? Starting tomorrow, we will go into the final war between Virgil and Dante. And what we'll show you is that this war continues even to today, okay? All right, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 5982.6,
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      "time_label": "1:39:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse six. Verse seven. Below her in the seats of the third rank, Rachel and Beatrice, as you see sit, Sarah, Rebecca, Judith, and the one who was the great -grandmother of the singer, who, as he sorrowed for his sinfulness, cried, miserere me. These you can see from rank to rank, as I, in moving through the rows from petal unto petal, give to each her name."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 6006.48,
      "end": 6077.15,
      "time_label": "1:40:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, all right, so again, Mary is the queen, Eve is beside her, and then as we move outwards, obviously the people closest to her are the people who are the most virtuous, right? Rachel and Beatrice, Sarah, Rebecca, Judith. If you were like a practicing Christian, you're kind of shocked by this. Why are you shocked by this? I'm talking about the year 1300, okay? Why would you be shocked by this, yes? Because they're all women? First of all, they're all women. Okay. They're all women. And also, there are many Jews, man, right? These are Jews. Rachel, Sarah, Rebecca. I actually don't know who Judith is. And then you have Ruth, the great -grandmother of King David, right? Why do you have these people and not like David, Moses, Abraham, right? The patriarch. Instead, you have the matriarchs, okay? So again, this reveals the revolutionary nature of Dante. Okay, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 6084.09,
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      "time_label": "1:41:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 13. From rank to rank as I, in moving through the rows, from petal to petal, give to each her name. And from the seventh rank, just as they did within the rank above, the Hebrew women follow, ranging downward, dividing all the tresses of the rows. There the wall by which the sacred stairs divide, depending on the view of Christ with which their faith aligned, upon one side there where the rows is ripe, with all the rows, its petals are those whose faith was in the Christ to come and on the other side that semicircle whose space is broken up by vacant places sit those whose sight was set upon the Christ who had already come and just as on this side to serve as such a great partition there's a throne in glory of the lady of heaven and the seats that range below it so opposite the seat of the great John who"
    },
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      "start": 6135.54,
      "end": 6160.08,
      "time_label": "1:42:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "always saintly suffered both the desert and martyrdom and then two years of hell serves to divide below him sit assigned to this partition Francis Benedict and Augustine and others rank on rank down to the center of the rose now see how deep is God's foresight both aspects of the faith shall fill this garden equally okay so this is really the first time that we see"
    },
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "end": 6225.38,
      "time_label": "1:42:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Augustine reference okay and he's clearly in heaven and we talk about Austin a lot in this class because Augustine is really is really the major theologian of the Catholic church at this time in history um what's the paradox here there's a paradox in divine comedy how many times is Augustine quilted in the divine comedy never right this is the major theologian of the Catholic church his book city of God and confessions are read by everyone uh within the hierarchy of the Catholic church you're forced to read them actually if you are to join the Catholic church and don't it never actually quotes him okay and this is actually the first time that we see Augustine so again this is a very subtle uh tongue -in -cheek um very paradoxical um place to"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "start": 6225.38,
      "end": 6319.1,
      "time_label": "1:43:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "put Augustine okay let's let's run away verse 40 and know that there below the traverse transverse row that cuts across the two divisions it's souls who are there for merits not their own but with certain conditions others merits for all of these are souls who left their bodies before they had the power of true choice this remove shucks where does raven lie where does raven lie so HPational family almost� be exact. And thus these souls who have precociously reached the true life do not among themselves find places high or low without some cause. The king through whom this kingdom finds content in so much love and so much joyousness that no desire would dare to ask for more. Creating every mind in his glad sight bestows his grace diversely at his pleasure and here the fact alone must be enough. And this is clearly and expressly noted for you in holy scripture and those twins who in their mother's womb were moved to anger."
    },
    {
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      "start": 6319.91,
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      "time_label": "1:45:19",
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      "text": "Thus it is just for the celestial light to grace their heads with a becoming crown according to the color of their hair. Without then any merit in their works these infants are assigned to different ranks. Proclivity at birth the only difference. In early centuries the king of the trees their parents faith alone and their own innocence suffice for the salvation of the children. When those early times had reached completion then each male child had to find through circumcision the power needed by his innocent member. But then the age of grace arrived and without perfect baptism in Christ such innocence was kept below in limbo. Look now upon the face that is most like the face of Christ for only through its brightness can you prepare your vision."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "time_label": "1:46:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay so what Bernard is doing is listing the ranks of the most beloved right starting from Mary and keep on going okay. So at this time in history there's a major debate in the Catholic church about children right. If you're an infant and you die before you are baptized what happens to you? Yes."
    },
    {
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      "start": 6404.16,
      "end": 6409.24,
      "time_label": "1:46:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "You ascend into heaven because you didn't do anything wrong? So you are technically perfect?"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "end": 6416.28,
      "time_label": "1:46:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Um that that that might be logical but that's not what what they thought yes. Anyone else?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:46:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Um because you weren't baptized yet and you don't and you still have the original sin on you you kind of burn in hell."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:47:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah you go to purgatory? Yeah you're in limbo okay you don't understand limbo because it's more dilemma for the church right because um you didn't become a Christian so you can't go to heaven but you did nothing wrong you were free of sin so it's wrong to put you in hell. So they just put you okay let's make up a new place called limbo okay or purgatory and we'll put you there okay because like we don't know what else to do with you right. And what is and so in this heaven uh what does Bernard say about this this is actually a huge issue right in the Catholic church okay. Like like. Why? creates such a paradox right so what does bernard say yes and salvation decides where they go well that makes no sense at all right right who like why should it matter what your parents do that's"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:48:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "even more unjust what does bernard say the age of grace has arrived so you guys can now go to heaven now or actually no yeah so before you can go to heaven i mean like before you couldn't go to heaven"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:48:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "now you can well the age of grace is the coming of christianity and jesus right okay let's let's read it again okay because this is very perplexing starting from 19 all right yep oh no sorry um 40"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:49:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "40 okay verse 40 and know that there below the transverse row that cuts across the two divisions sit souls who are there for merits not their own but with certain conditions others merits for all of these are souls who left their bodies before"
    },
    {
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      "text": "they had the power of true choice okay so these are children okay and these children these babies are actually in the roles as well okay and this goes against catholic doctrine because you have to first be baptized in order to ascend to heaven okay so these are babies um and so"
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      "text": "they are in heaven okay keep on going verse 46 indeed you may perceive this by yourself their faces childlike voices are enough if you look well at them and hear them sing but now you doubt and doubting do not speak yet i shall lose that not i can release you from the bonds of subtle reasoning within the ample breadth of this domain no point can find its place by chance just as there's no place for sorrow thirst or hunger whatever you may see has been ordained by everlasting law so that the fit of ring and finger here must be exact and thus these souls who have precociously reached the true life do not amongst themselves find places high or low without some cause okay all right so so what what i'm"
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      "text": "saying is that everything happens for a reason okay there is perfect justice in the world especially up in heaven so these babies are here for a reason and they are here for a reason and for a cause okay uh keep on going verse 61 the king through whom this kingdom finds content"
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      "text": "in so much love and so much joyousness that no desire would dare to ask for more creating every mind in his glad sight bestows his grace diversely at his pleasure and here the fact alone must be enough and this is clearly and expressly noted for you in holy scripture and those twins who in their mother's womb were moved to anger uh who are those twins in an able right"
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      "text": "yeah can you explain uh because the twins were conceived and they were fighting inside the womb and one is hairy and one is smooth beautiful and they fought ever since they were in the tomb"
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      "text": "till the very end of their lives okay so it's jacob and estelle yes okay let's keep on going"
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      "text": "verse 72 thus it is just for the celestial light to graze their heads with the becoming crown according to the color of their hair without then any merit in their works these infants are assigned to different ranks proclivity at birth the only difference in early centuries their parents faith alone and their own innocence sufficed for the salvation of the children when those early times had reached completion then each male child had to find through circumcision the power of the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit needed by his innocent member but then the age of grace arrived and without perfect perfect baptism in Christ such innocence was kept below in limbo look now upon the face that is most like the face of Christ for only through its brightness can you prepare your vision to see him right so how does"
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      "text": "he resolve this contradiction paradox first I have a question why does Cain get to be in heaven"
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      "text": "I'd be"
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      "text": "because I remember it's jacob and estelle anyone yes so I guess he's saying that even in your womb in the womb you have a soul and your soul is different like this uh proclivity at birth is the only difference so like if you're inclined to be good or evil it's already decided when you are"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "at point zero yeah okay yeah so what do you make of this explanation right this guy's even more problems right what he's saying is that jacob and esso well they were always going to be enemies and that was that was determined at the point of birth right so again this is what makes divine comedy so revelatory because paradox leads to more paradoxes okay we resolve one paradox which creates even more paradoxes was like uh wait a minute here what's going on the merit was always was determined at before verb okay so god can know where you belong the moment you were born yes"
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      "text": "but I thought god gave us free will so god can't really predict any exactly okay so this is really"
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      "text": "problematic okay this is a paradox now god give us free will we can be anything we want we can do whatever we want but at our birth we have our own"
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      "text": "inclinations so what's going on here yes time doesn't really exist so even though as humans right we can't really predict the future but we got but because like god is all -knowing he kind of like sees everything happening but it's like different for him because there's no concept of"
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      "text": "time right but but again this is a problem because what you're saying is that well god knows what would happen if you didn't die at birth he would know what kind of person you became but in that case there's no free will then it's all predetermined right there's a huge problem"
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      "text": "I don't think you we should think of this as being like predetermined I think we should just think of it as like god can god can know what whatever we're doing like throughout the expanse of time so he doesn't like make he doesn't like force you into a certain ending it just happens and he knows from wherever he is he knows it then it's not free will did you understand he knows but he doesn't intervene yeah so why does that like conflict with free will I'm I guess I'm confused here so why does he knowing everything that has happened conflict with free will like you can still enact your people okay yeah okay so I understand but"
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      "text": "like what we will okay I okay that does make sense right he knows everything that has that will happen right because he is god so yes or is it also an inversion of"
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      "text": "Christianity because could it be that the proclivity of birth we have is actually positive not negative so we will all like all children who die at birth would go to heaven yeah okay that"
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      "text": "makes a lot more sense right that makes a lot more sense I I don't see how we can be born evil right but if but if that's the case that creates even more problems because then like every child goes to heaven right and then like you just run out of space eventually yes but how do you run out of space if heaven is infinite um well I mean in order for free will to happen okay you have to have heaven and hell right because I mean like just think about this more dilemma where now you're incentivized to kill your"
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      "text": "kid right just kill them at birth then you are be ensure them they go to heaven"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "yeah right um because they haven't because they have free will they haven't decided that they believe in god yet so the children um the children don't have faith yet because when they are born they don't believe in god yet yeah they have not made their choice that's correct yes so they go to"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "purgatory and they're in limbo that's right that is how what the catholic church teaches you right I'm just saying like but we have a situation where there's a lot of people who are going to be tormenting their children there are children babies who are among the blessed who are among the elect and God is like wait a minute here how did he get there right and what bernard's saying is like God knows everything God is perfect God knows exactly where you belong he also said that your merit is determined at birth okay so without knowing how you live your life god can determine what your propensity is"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "very confusing right yes the babies are in heaven because as you said like if you're a parent the happiest moment of your life is when your child is born so when that child was born they gave joy and love to their parents so they can go"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
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      "time_label": "1:59:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "to heaven okay but like that creates even more problems because first of all like which parent is not happy to see their child second of all if that's the criteria then it's a parent to determine who which child goes to heaven right it could be like you know the mother's having a bad day she's really unhappy right well then now your child's screwed for all of eternity that kind of sucks okay so what I want to do is this okay it's amazing to think about where we're like 10 -0 -32 we are in heaven and all that's happened is we're even more confused and confused and confused and confused and confused and confused and confused and confused and confused okay so during lunch I want you guys to talk about yourself do research and figure out this problem for me okay when I come back give me the answer all right when we come back"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "at 1 o 'clock give me the answer as to how to resolve this paradox okay I'll see you guys at the lunch okay okay oh Carol could you tell him not to raise this I'll need this for this afternoon okay"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:01:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "okay okay begin"
    },
    {
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      "text": "okay so this is the hardest theological problem in the universe it is almost impossible to solve okay and what we're going to do is just say that what are we And why this is put, why this paradox or conundrum is put before we meet God is the only way to solve this problem is through love and imagination, okay? So there's almost like a warm -up before our meeting with God, which is going to really test our love and imagination. So let's try to figure out what's going on, okay? So let's go back and figure out, first of all, who is with Mary, okay? So there's a hierarchy, right? So Mary is at the top, Eve is with her, and then below her are Rachel's and Beatrice, okay? Then below them are Sarah, Rebecca, and Judah. Who is Rachel? Tell me the story of Rachel."
    },
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      "text": "Yes? One of the most beautiful wives of Isaac or Jacob. Jacob."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, all right, okay. No, no, no, that's Sarah. Okay, okay. So we need to figure out, first of all, why are they where they are? They are the closest to God, so why are they where they are? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Because they didn't have free will?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No."
    },
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      "text": "They didn't have the option to choose, so therefore they did not have free will."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Is it because they are ancestors to Mary?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No. Well, I mean, okay, all right. Okay, so let me tell you the story of Rachel, okay? So Jacob is exiled from his homeland. He goes and finds shelter and refuge. With his uncle, Lachan. And they make a deal where Jacob works for Lachan for seven years, and then Lachan will give him Rachel. Seven years later, they get married, and on the wedding night, they have sex. When Jacob wakes up, he finds the woman he's had sex with is not Rachel, but Leah, who is Rachel's older sister. Jacob says to Lachan, Lachan, you've cheated me. And Lachan says, it's not our custom to first marry the younger sister before the elder sister, so we are forced to give you Leah. But if you work for me for seven more years, I will give you Rachel. At this point, if you're Rachel, what are you going to do? I'd be pissed, right? I'd be like, screw you all."
    },
    {
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      "text": "I'm going to go find someone else, okay? What does Rachel do instead? She sticks around, okay? And that demonstrates her love and devotion. It is an example of the beauty and power of love. That's why where she is, she is where she is, okay? Because of her self -dedication to love, because of her faith in God, because of her love for Jacob. Because everyone else would be like, screw this, I'm going somewhere else, okay? Because I've been cheated. But because of her love for Jacob, because of her faith in God, she stuck around and endured being married to Jacob. While also Leah being married to Jacob, okay? So that's an example of selfless love. What is Beatrice doing in heaven? What does she do to warrant her next to God? We know Rachel, yeah, good example. And Sarah, who is the wife of Abraham, she prayed and prayed for 80 years before she was actually granted an only son, Isaac, okay?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "So yeah, these are examples. But what's Beatrice? What's Beatrice doing here? What is Beatrice's accomplishment? Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So Beatrice kind of, she was dead already, so Beatrice kind of gave up temporarily her place in heaven to do the great labor of guiding Dante from hell to heaven."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah, but I mean, how did she get where she is in the first place? She died at childbirth. She died giving birth. But that's not an accomplishment, right? Because like think about the millions of mothers who have given childbirth. There's like literally... Billions of them, okay? But she died. Yes? She inspired Dante. Yeah, or yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "She made a devotion or covenant with God. At least she had the will to be devoted to God."
    },
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      "text": "Okay, so there's only one reason why she is where she is, yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Could it be arrogance from Dante because he puts Mary at the top of heaven and that's because there would be no Jesus without Mary and he thinks, obviously, he's divinely inspired, but there would be no Dante without Beatrice."
    },
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      "text": "Exactly. Yeah, thank you very much. Okay, yes. Dante put her there. You understand? So think about this, okay? We have Rachel who is the perfect example of love and devotion. We have Beatrice who is there because Dante put her there, okay? So now we have to use our love and imagination and figure out how these infants got to... this rose so that they're beside God, yes?"
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      "text": "Dante put them there."
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      "text": "Excuse me?"
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      "text": "Dante puts them there."
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      "text": "Not Dante. Dante doesn't even know them. He doesn't even name them, right? Who put them there?"
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      "text": "Maybe that is Dante's own interpretation. Like, they deserve to be there."
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      "text": "Okay, all right. So again, what's hard about Dante is that you are forced to use your love and imagination, but once you do, the universe opens itself to you and it reveals itself to you, okay? You're a parent, okay? Let's all imagine we are parents, right? And we have our first child, and for the reason, at one or two years old, the child dies. Maybe at six months, who knows, okay? Now, at this point in our lives, we can make a choice, right? Most of us will choose to despair. Some of us may choose to have another one. But then there are certain individuals who... Because of their faith, hope, and love, they say to themselves, I'm going to dedicate the rest of my life to celebrating the legacy of my child. I'm going to put all the love that I had for my child and devote it to others, devote it to the world, to celebrate my child."
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      "text": "Obviously, this person deserves to be next to God, right? But what's the paradox? What's the problem with that? Huh? Yes? Why is the child there instead of the mother? But yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying the parent did all the work. So why is the child there and not the parent who did all the work?"
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      "text": "Because the kid inspires their parent. And so is the death of the child enables them to share the love with the world?"
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      "text": "Sure. But I mean, like, so? Right? It's the parent who did all the work. It's Dante who wrote all the poetry, yes?"
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      "text": "In the same way Beatrice inspired Dante, death of a child can inspire his parents."
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      "text": "I know, but it's a parent who did all the work, right? So why is the child there, not the parent, right? Why is Beatrice in heaven and not Dante?"
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      "text": "Because he decided that Beatrice would be in heaven."
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      "text": "Right."
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      "text": "So the child is in heaven because their mother decided that they would be in heaven."
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      "text": "Exactly. You understand, okay? Like, if you're God, right, and, like, you touch... And the mother says, wow, the life you've led was so exemplary. I have to put you beside me because I am so bedazzled by your example because the world is shining so much brighter because of your sacrifice, okay? But the mother's like, don't put me next to you. Put my child next to you, right? You understand? So that's why the children are in heaven. Excuse me? Yeah, the parents put them there, right? And if you think about it logically, this resolves a lot of the paradoxes, Because, again, if you are a parent and your child dies, you're going to have a hard time explaining to yourself why the child died, okay? Or, like, why is my child not in heaven? Okay? So this is the hardest problem for theologians to solve. I don't think anyone has solved this satisfactorily, okay?"
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      "text": "But Dante provides a solution. Does it make sense to you guys? Do you understand how this logic works? By the same token, we can also imagine certain examples where a child's death warrants him or her in heaven immediately, okay? So let's think of, like, what, 13 or 12? The guy fights Goliath, right? If he lost to Goliath, where should he be? He should be next to God, right? In fact, if he were to die, he'd be more worthy of God than if he defeated Goliath. Does that make sense? Excuse me?"
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      "text": "So why would he be more worthy to God than if he defeated Goliath?"
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      "text": "Yeah?"
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      "text": "He had complete faith in God, even without having the results he had expected."
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      "text": "Exactly, right? So why they're put in heaven is not necessarily because of their actions alone. It's because of their... It's because of their actions on the people around them. Does that make sense?"
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      "text": "So by that logic, then he is no more worthy if he died than he was if he actually defeated Goliath. Because if he actually defeated Goliath, then the net effect upon the people next to him is better."
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      "text": "Okay. Again, use your imagination. My son David went to fight Goliath, okay? And before, I was afraid of these Philistines. My son goes and fights Goliath. And he dies. What are the rest of the Israelites going to do? They will avenge David and fight back. They'll fight to the death. If a child has the courage to fight a giant, then I would be ashamed to not take up arms and avenge him. I couldn't live myself, right? So just use your imagination and use your sense of love. If you were a parent and you saw your son make this ultimate sacrifice, you would be compelled. You could be the biggest coward in the world, right? Right? You could be afraid to die. You could have absolutely no faith. But to see your son die against a giant, he had absolutely no chance anyway. But for him to take up arms and to fight with faith, that compels you into action."
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      "text": "Do you understand? And therefore, David, even though he's an Israelite and not a Christian, and even though he didn't really accomplish that much, he just died in battle, like, you know, he would have been right next to God. Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "My imagination is telling me that the death of a child would be incredible. It would be incredibly disheartening. And if he defeated Goliath, then a child defeating a giant would be a sign of the glory and the power of God. And I think that would be more inspirational."
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      "text": "Okay, then your imagination doesn't come from a place of love."
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      "text": "Okay."
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      "text": "All right? Okay. Does it make sense to you guys? All right? We can also imagine, let's just say that Mary, before she gives birth to Jesus, she has a child and the child dies. Right? Where would the child go? Exactly, right? Because if you, Mary, have all the virtue to give birth to Jesus, then your child must be virtuous as well. Does it make sense? Okay? So, this is a way to resolve the paradox. And again, what Dante is doing is, he's presenting to you the hardest theological problem in order to excite your, love and imagination. And because only with that can you actually meet God. All right? So, does it make sense, guys? Any questions? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I'm quite confused about why, if the mother is virtuous, then the son is also virtuous, automatically. Why? Like, born with?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. Yeah."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I'll try. He did not say that. What he said was, for the unborn child, the mother is the one whose belief has put the baby into heaven. You know, just a personal sharing. Before having three beautiful children on earth, I have two children in heaven. And it's because I believe that they're in heaven. I haven't had them, that they're in heaven. But it's not because I'm virtuous. Mm -hmm. It's because I believe they're in heaven. And that propelled them to heaven."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:16:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And, I mean, this is a beautiful story. So, thanks for sharing such a personal detail. But if you're a parent, you understand. But if you're not a parent, then it's hard to understand. You can't actually reason this out, okay? That's why, you know, Divine Comedy, it has to be read over a lifetime. And it has to be read from a place of love. And it's only after you experience love for yourself could you truly appreciate Divine Comedy. Right? So, this is not to criticize you. This doesn't say that this is a lifelong journey. And, again, this is the hardest question in theology. What happens to infants who are not baptized? Are they automatically condemned to hell and limbo? And what Donnett says is that you have to just trust in the infinite justice and wisdom of God. Okay? There are going to be these cases that are impossible, for us, to reason out. But God knows the answer."
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      "text": "God knows that your sacrifice is meant to put the infinite in heaven and not yourself in heaven. And so, God is going to honor your request. You know, it was you who did all the virtue in the world. Okay?"
    },
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      "text": "So, in a case where the child is relatively young, but the parent, and the child dies, and for whatever reason, someone else thinks that child should not be, in heaven, and the parent thinks the child should be in heaven. In that case, what happens?"
    },
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      "text": "Oh, my God. This is not, okay. All right. Can someone answer this question?"
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      "text": "You just have to believe that God is the ultimate judge. And God will, you know, consider every cases, every possible scenario, every hidden thoughts of that child's heart. And then."
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      "text": "Okay, look, God is love. Okay? So, when you truly love, God responds to you. When you hate, God turns away from you. Does that make sense? If you're like, you know, I want this child to burn in hell, why would God honor your request? That makes no sense."
    },
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      "text": "I'm not saying they should burn in hell. I just say someone believes that they shouldn't be in heaven."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Then where should the child be?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Purgatory."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Right. That's, well, limbo is in hell. Okay? All right. Okay. And again, like, it's not everyone who gets to heaven. It's those people, those individuals, whose stories are so exemplary that they inspire the world to greater love. Okay? Does that make sense? All right. So, now we are moving towards, well, this is the very last canto, okay? Canto 33. And this is the greatest canto of the entire Divine Comedy. I don't know why people just read Inferno, actually. If you really want to understand Dante, you really need to read the last canto. Okay. So, let's read it. Here we go. Did we not finish? Oh, I apologize. Yeah, let's just finish 32, okay? Let's make sure we, okay? But we understand the infant problem, right? Okay."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 88. I saw such joy rain down upon her, joy carried by holy intellects created to fly at such a height, that all which I had seen before did not transfix me with amazement so intense, nor show to me a semblance that was so akin to God. And the angelic love, who had descended earlier now spread his wings before her, singing Ave Maria, Grazia plena. On every side, the blessed court replied, singing responses to his godly song, so that each spirit there grew more serene. O Holy Father, who for me endure your being here below, leaving the sweet place where eternal lot assigns your seat. Who is that angel who with such delight looks into our queen's eyes, he who is so enraptured that he seems to be aflame. So once again, I called upon the teaching of him who drew from Mary beauty, as the morning star draws beauty from the sun. And he"
    },
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      "start": 8423.21,
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      "time_label": "2:20:23",
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      "text": "to me, all of the gallantry and confidence that there can be an angel or blessed soul are found in him. And we would have it so, for it was he who carried the palm below to Mary when God's son wanted to bear our flesh as his own burden. But follow with your eyes, even as I proceed to speak and note the great patricians of this, most just and merciful empire. Those two who there above us seated, most happy to be so near the empress may be likened to the two roots of this rose. The one who on her left sits closest is the father whose presumptuous tasting caused humankind to taste such bitterness. And on the right, you see that ancient father of holy church and to whose care the keys of this fair flower were consigned by Christ. And he who saw before he died, all of the troubled era of the lovely bride, whom lands the nails had one sits at his side."
    },
    {
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      "text": "And at the side of Adam sits that guide under whose rule the people, thankless, fickle, and stubborn, left on manna facing Peter. Anna is seated so content to see her daughter that as Anna sings hosannas, she does not move her eyes."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:21:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so we have Adam and Peter and Anna, okay. Anna is Mary's mother. Mary is so virtuous that even her mother is a, is able to obtain a seat next to God. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:21:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Line 135. And opposite the greatest father of a family, Lucia sits. She who urged on your lady when you bent your brows downward to your ruin."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "We don't have time to discuss this, but Lucia would be the inverse of Picarda, okay. Whereas Picarda lacks will, Lucia is the total representative of will, okay. Saint Lucy of the Catholic Church, who basically, um, would rather die than to abandon her faith, okay. Um, keep on going."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:22:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 139. But time which brings you sleep takes flight. And now we shall stop here, even as a good tailor who cuts the garment as his cloth allows, and turn our vision to the primal love that gazing at him you may penetrate, as far as that can be his radiance. But lest you now fall back when even as you move your way, your wings, you think that you advance, imploring grace. Through prayer, you must beseech grace from that one who has the power to help you. And do you follow me with your affection? So may my words and your heart share one way. And he began this holy supplication."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so again, Dante is using Bernard as a model, as a model, right. So Bernard is first going to worship Mary, to humble himself before Mary, and this will give him the power to worship Mary. To humble, for Dante to humble, to humble himself before God, okay. This is the very last canto, okay. We have come to the end, okay. We are, we have come to God himself. All right, here we go."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:23:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Canto 33. Virgin mother, daughter of your son, more humble and sublime than any creature, fixed gold decreed from all eternity. You're the one who gave to human nature so much nobility that its creator did not disdain his being made its creature."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:23:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. So again. It's going to emphasize that Mary is more noble because she was able to give birth to Jesus. She was able to be the portal for God to manifest himself in this world, which has never been done before, okay. Keep on going."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:24:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 7. That love whose warmth allowed this flower to bloom within the everlasting peace was love rekindled in your womb for us above. You're the noonday torch of charity. And there below on earth among the mortals, you are a living spring of hope. Lady, you're so high, you can so intercede that he who would have grace but does not seek your aid may long to fly but has no wings. Your loving kindness does not only answer the one who asks, but it is often ready to answer freely long before the asking. And you compassion is, and you is pity, and you is generosity, and you is every goodness found in any creature. This man who from the deepest hollow in the universe up to this height has seen the lives of spirits one by one, now pleads with you through grace to grant him so much virtue that he may lift his vision higher still, may lift it toward the ultimate salvation."
    },
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      "text": "And I, who never burned for my own vision more than I burned for his, do offer you all of my prayers and pray that they may not fall short, that with your prayers, you may disperse all of the clouds of his mortality so that, at the highest, joy be his to see. This too, O Queen, who can do what you would, I ask of you, that after such a vision, his sentiments preserve their perseverance. May your protection curb his mortal passions. See Beatrice, how many saints with her. They join my prayers. They clasp their hands to you."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. So again, this is such a revolutionary passage. Okay. So Bernard is praying to Mary and says, Mary, please lend, don't take some of your virtue so that he may see God. And first of all, what does it mean to say, he may lift his vision higher still, may lift it toward the ultimate salvation? How can Dante see God?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "By having faith."
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      "text": "Not faith. Feel. You can't feel it. What does higher vision mean? Imagination, okay? So this is. This is really interesting that he's saying that Dante, when he stares at God, you can't look at it with your eyes. You have to look at it with your imagination. Okay. Question. What does Bernard mean by, he says, I never burned my own vision more than I burned for his. What does he mean by this? I never burned my own vision more than I burned for his."
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      "text": "He hopes that Dante sees God more than he hopes he will see God."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Basically, he loves Dante."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. That's a good try, but that doesn't really make any sense, right? Because Bernard is with God every single day, all the time, for all eternity. So how can he, so how can Dante know God more than Bernard? Well, I never burned for my own vision more than I burned for his. What does this mean?"
    },
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      "text": "Does he realize that Dante is going to go back to earth and be able to take the word of God back with him?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah, that's what Dante is here for. But it's not the word, right? It's his vision. Yeah."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So earlier you told us that in heaven, it's just constant joy of all kinds on the whiteboard. And I'm just reminded of the old and tired argument. If everything is joy, then how do you tell joy from sadness? So maybe Dante is able to perceive God's joy more because he has experienced sorrow in the human realm for so long, while Bernard has been here for a while, I guess."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah, but I understand that. But I'm like, would Dante know God better than Bernard? Yes? He's been able to imagine more. Yeah. So what is going on here is that what Bernard is saying is like, the only way to see God is with the imagination. Guess what? We angels, we souls, we don't have an imagination. Why not? You see what I mean? No, no, no, no. There's actually a very good reason why they lack an imagination. They don't have a body, okay? Okay? This is like Dante explained to us. You need a body to have emotions. And emotions is what gives you memory, which allows for the imagination, okay? So that's what Bernard is saying. He's saying like, yes, we've been with God for all eternity, but we don't really know God. Only Dante with his imagination can truly understand God. Okay, that's literally what he's saying, all right? Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9008.74,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 40. The eyes that are revered and loved by God now fixed upon the supplicant showed us how welcome such devotions are to her. Then her eyes turned to the eternal light there. Do not think that any creature's eye can find its way as clearly as her sight. And I who now was nearing him who is the end of all desires as I ought lifted my longing to its ardent limit. Bernard was signaling. He smiled to me to turn my eyes on high, but I already was doing what he wanted me to do. Because my sight becoming pure was able to penetrate the ray of light more deeply, that light sublime which in itself is true. From that point on, what I could see was greater than speech can show. At such a sight, it fails, and memory fails when faced with such excess."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so what Dante is doing is he's staring at God, and it reeks. It really, really sucks, okay? It's burning his eyes so much that it's destroying it. That's almost like causing his brain to be on fire. And he's losing control, and it's so powerful, this sight, that he's also losing his memory, okay? He's basically lost his memory. It's so traumatic that he can't process what he's seeing, okay? Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:31:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 58. Verse 58. Within a dream, and later the passion that had been imprinted stays, but nothing of the rest returns to mind. Such am I, for my vision almost fades completely, yet it still distills within my heart the sweetness that was born of it."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so he can't see anything. He can't remember anything. What is left? The emotion of it, right? Okay? That's the only thing that's left. The sweetness of it. The emotion of it. And from this, he has to construct, before his imagination, the divine harmony, okay? Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9141.1,
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      "time_label": "2:32:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Line 64. So is the snow beneath the sun unsealed, and so on the light leaves beneath the wind, the oracles of Sibyl wrote were lost. Oh, highest light, you raise so far above the minds of mortals to my memory, give back something of your epiphany, and make my tongue so powerful that I may leave to people of the future one gleam of the glory that is yours. For by returning somewhat to my memory, and encountering the light, and echoing a while within these lines, your victory will be more understood."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Where is Dante now? Where is he? What? Yeah, he's home, okay? This is like 20 years afterwards, okay? So he met God in the year 1300 during the Easter weekend. Now, 20 years later, he is now trying to remember what he saw through his imagination, okay? He's trying to reimagine what he saw. Did you have a question? Okay, all right. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:33:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 76. The living ray that I endured was so acute that I believe I should have gone astray had my eyes turned away from it. I can recall that I, because of this, was bolder in sustaining it until my vision reached the infinite goodness. Oh, grace abounding through which I presumed to set my eyes on the eternal light so long that I spent all my sight on it. In its profundity I saw, in -gathered and bound by love into one single volume, what in the universe seemed separate, scattered, substances, accidents, and dispositions as if conjoined, in such a way that what I tell is only rudimentary."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:34:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so what he's able to reimagine is the totality of the universe, okay? Everything is connected together. All right, keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 91. I think I saw the universal shape which that knot takes, for speaking this I feel a joy that is more ample, that one moment brings more forgetfulness to me than 25 centuries have brought to the endeavor that startled Neptune with the Argos shadow. So was my mind completely wrapped, intent, steadfast, and motionless, gazing, and it grew even more enkindled as it watched. Whoever sees that light is soon made such that it would be impossible for him to set that light aside for other sight, because the good, the object of the will, is fully gathered in that light. Outside that light, what there is perfect is defective. What little I recall is to be told from this point on in words more weak than those of one whose infant tongue still bathes at the breast. And not because more than one simple semblance was in the living light at which I gaze, for it is always what it was before."
    },
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      "text": "But through my sight, which as I gazed grew stronger, that sole appearance, even as I altered, seemed to be changing."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "From that moment onward I began to see theestial form of what I had been, the spirit of the Unborn, the spirit of the Unborn. The unused soul. And in that moment, I was struck by the divine radiance I was struck by the divine radiance of the unkown being. I was struck by the divine radiance of the unkown being."
    },
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      "text": "In that moment, I was entranced by that divine radiance."
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      "text": "I was turned away from the divine radiance, and I was transformed. I was turned away. what he saw and he searched through the universe he's used his imagination and now he comes to the"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:36:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "fundamental understanding of what god really is okay line 114 in the deep and bright essence of that exalted light three circles appeared to me they had three different colors but all of them were of the same dimension one circle seemed reflected by the second as rainbow is by rainbow and the third seemed fire breathed equally by those two circles okay so what is god exactly"
    },
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      "end": 9421.28,
      "time_label": "2:36:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "there you go palm saw holy trinity we can now go home okay what the church has taught us for the past 2 000 years is true it is in fact the holy trinity and that's what you're taught usually okay but you keep on reading and it's a problem okay keep on going first one two one how incomplete"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:37:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "a speech how weak when said against my thought and this to what i saw is such to call it little is too too much eternal light you only dwell within yourself and only you know you self -knowing self -known you love and smile upon yourself that circle which begotten so appeared in you was light reflected when my eyes had washed it with attention for some time within itself and colored like itself to me seemed painted with our effigy so that my sight was set on it completely okay what's the problem"
    },
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      "text": "with with this there's a problem here it's the holy trinity but it's not the holy trinity why what's inside the circle what's the effigy mean it's us yeah okay there's three circles that's a holy trinity and um we're inside each circle yeah huh oh well huh all right let's keep on going"
    },
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      "start": 9497.6,
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      "time_label": "2:38:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "verse 133 as the geometer intently seeks to square the circle but he cannot reach through thought on thought the principle he needs so i searched that strange sight i wish to see the way in which our human effigy suited the circle and found place"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:38:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "in it so he's trying to figure out why we're in the circle why are we in god okay keep on going"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "verse 139 and my own wings were far too weak for that but then my mind was struck by light that flashed and with this light received what it had asked failed my high fantasy but my desire and will were moved already like a wheel revolving uniformly by the love that moves the sun and the other stars and so he figures it out and we point"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "the more he figures it out he is completely connected to the universe he becomes one with god okay so and this is how divine comedy ends okay um and so the question for us is what did he see okay and again to solve this mystery you saw this paradox you have to use your love and imagination okay so all right let's try to figure it out all right first thing i want to do is look at happiness we are in heaven we are beside with god which is the purest happiness is eternal bliss the greatest joy okay and we have examples of joy and happiness on this board okay so let's just see these things are in heaven to make to to make sure we understand what heaven is selfless sacrifice is that in heaven how do you sacrifice yourself in heaven uh well sure but what about sacrifice yeah so sacrifice is not here"
    },
    {
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      "text": "you can't sacrifice yourself in heaven right because there's another sacrifice for it's already perfection Novelty, surprise, shock, yes or no? Definitely no, because it's perfection, right? It's eternal. You already know what's there. Nope. Relieve and release. No, because you need tension for that, right? You need evil, you need hatred, you need conflict, you need agony for there to be relief and release. Nope. Wishful fulfillment, is it there? No, because, yeah, exactly, right? There's nothing to fulfill. Returning home. Well, maybe, I mean, you can say it's home, okay? Flow, yeah, probably. Self -creation, self -discovery, sharing knowledge, is that there? No, but it doesn't even know anything, okay? It's not there. Connection, community, probably. Recognition, validation, probably. Beauty, okay, all right? So, half the things on the list are there, the other half are not, all right? So, where's the only thing where we can find the rest? Here, right? Okay, on earth. So, some of"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "the happiness is on heaven, some is on earth, okay, but the problem is, the problem is you're in heaven and you're experiencing the perfect joy, the perfect happiness. What I already said, there's lots of happiness that are not in heaven, so how does heaven compensate? How does heaven resolve this problem?"
    },
    {
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      "end": 9756.26,
      "time_label": "2:42:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Some people just don't have such kind of desire, so no need for that."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No, no, no, no, we just said heaven is the greatest bliss. It is perfection, it's the greatest joy. Every single moment is pure bliss. We already said a lot of the bliss can't be found in heaven, so how does heaven resolve this paradox? Anyone? Exactly, okay, earth and heaven have to be combined, okay? They have to be combined together, do you understand? God and man have to be combined together in order to create perfect happiness. Otherwise, it can't be done, right, okay? So, we have to be inside God, okay? And what allows us to be inside God?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:43:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Faith, hope, and love."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, well, let's just use imagination, okay? Imagination, okay? So, it's imagination that allows us to be inside God, do you understand? Yes."
    },
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      "text": "I just, I have a question about the first thing. So, this idea that in order for heaven to compensate for not having some happiness, it needs to combine heaven and earth."
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      "text": "Well, you need to have earth."
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      "text": "Like, what do you mean by compensate? Do you mean like, for a person to experience all the happiness, they have to both experience earth and heaven?"
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      "text": "Okay, you're Beatrice, you're Rachel, right? You're experiencing all happiness, right? Where's this happiness coming from?"
    },
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      "text": "By you seeing what is happening on earth."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah, because we generate this happiness on earth. And then because earth and heaven correspond, they experience this happiness. When we experience happiness, they do as well. But the happiness we experience, they can't possibly experience up there. So, we have to create it for them here. That's why people like Rachel and Beatrice are celebrated in heaven, because they create so much happiness that not only do they shine on earth, they also shine in heaven. Okay, does that make sense?"
    },
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      "text": "So, the idea is if you create happiness on earth, you're also helping create happiness on heaven."
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      "text": "Exactly. Okay, because it is not possible for heaven to create certain forms of happiness. Okay, yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And I think that also relates to, like, previously in the morning we discussed, like, why Beatrice is angry even in heaven, right? Exactly. As above, so below, right? Exactly. Yes."
    },
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      "text": "Where there's injustice on earth, there must be, heaven can feel it as well. Okay, it's calling for us to create happiness and justice. Okay, do you understand? And this, again, is shocking for people at this time, because before they thought that earth and heaven were separate, right? Earth is imperfect, heaven is perfect. Earth is flat, heaven is spherical. Okay? So, this is a revolution in mentality. All right? Okay? Does it make sense, guys? All right. So, we are in God, okay? But at the same time, God is in us. How? Why? How is God able to manifest himself in us?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "So, in some of my research about this, then, like a scholar had said that objective and subjective start to converge, and they were dealing with this with sight. So, like the seer, what is seen in the act of seeing, all converge into one. So, I wonder if maybe, if God is love, maybe this is the moment where my love, love itself, and the person, or the God being loved, all converge into one because there's no time and space."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Right, okay. So, exactly. So, God manifests itself in us through love. Do you understand? So, God is in us through love. We are in God for our imagination. And this is inseparable. This is what is the Trinity. Okay? Does it make sense? Right? And there are two instances when Dante lets us know that God is love. Right? The first is when he reconciles the Holy Trinity. Remember when Peter is testing Dante. And Peter asks Dante, what is God? And God says, God is love. And God says what? Do you remember? Yeah, what does Dante say about what God is?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 10056.76,
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      "time_label": "2:47:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "God is love."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "2:47:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yeah. Well, first of all, God is the Holy Trinity. Right? Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God, the Father, these are separate but equal. And so, how do you reconcile this, this, this paradox? Because all three represent love. You understand? So, God is love. Okay, so that's the first instance. Right? The second instance is the idea of the mirrored flame. So, we are just a mirror that reflects God. And God is love. Okay? As represented by a flame. Does that make sense? Okay? So, we are just a reflection of God in the universe. So, the way to appreciate God is that God is in us with a force of love. And we are inside God for our imagination. Another way of understanding this is that God is perfection. So, therefore, God can extend the perimeters of perfection. Right? To extend perfection is to say it's imperfect. So, the only way to resolve this paradox is for us, because we are imperfect, and for our imagination, we extend the boundaries of the universe."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:49:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Therefore, we let God know itself more. Right? So, it's only dawn on us. It's Dante, with his body, with his imperfect body, that's able to imagine what God is. Not Bernard, not any of the angels, not even Mary. Okay? And certainly not God itself. God doesn't even know what it is. It's Dante that's able to explain to us what God is. Okay?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:49:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "But you're not saying that God only exists because of man?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No, I didn't say that."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure. Okay, yeah."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "It reminds me of languages. Like, yesterday we heard Italian. And I'm pretty sure none of us here speak Italian fluently. So, if you speak a language fluently, then all it sounds to you, all it sounds to you is like information. It's information. And that's the state that Bernard and Mary and every angel is in. But if you don't understand a language, and you listen to it, and you can hear the cadence, and you can hear the rhythm, and that's where Dante is at."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. I didn't really understand the point. Can you rephrase?"
    },
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      "start": 10208.54,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "So, if you understand a language, then people are speaking information. If you do not understand the language, then people are speaking a song to you."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "2:50:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "I don't really understand that. Okay. All right. Sorry. Okay. Okay. So, what Dante is saying, ultimately, is that the imagination is the animating force of the universe. Okay? So, rather than see heaven as separate, rather than seeing God as separate, see us as humans, as part of the divine creation process. And so, you have a responsibility to imagine. Okay? Does that make sense? All right. So, you're like, okay, well, I understand, because that's what Disney movies teach me, or whatever. You know? What's the big deal here? It's a big deal because what the context is. The year 1300. All right? So, what I want to do now is I want to contrast this with another. We're passing from the Bible. Okay? So, this is what's called part of the apocalyptic tradition. Okay? Apocalypse. Apocalypse is Greek for revelation. All right? What is revealed to you. And, of course, there are, in the Bible, three really famous apocalyptic books."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 10306.24,
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      "time_label": "2:51:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "There is the book of Revelation, the book of Revelation of John. There is the book of Revelation of John. There is the book of Daniel. And there is the book of Ezekiel. Ezekiel. Okay? And, actually, in Ezekiel, we have a situation where, also, Ezekiel visits God. Okay? And we're going to contrast what that experience is like. So, can we read Ezekiel 1 to 3? 1 to 3. So, just to say 1. And then, you know. Okay? So, we're going to compare, contrast what Dante experienced and what Ezekiel experienced."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "time_label": "2:52:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Ezekiel 1. Ezekiel 1. In my thirtieth year, in the fourth month of the fifth day, while I was among the exiles of the Kibar River, the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God. On the fifth of the month, it was the fifth year of the exile of King Jehoiachin, the word of the Lord came to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, by the Kibar River in the land of the Babylonians. There the hand of the Lord was on him. I looked and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north, an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance, their form was human, but each of them had four faces and four wings. Their legs were straight, their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:53:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Under their wings, on their four sides, they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead. They did not turn as they moved. Their faces looked like this. Each of the four had the face of a human being and on the right side, each had the face of a lion. On the left, the face of an ox. Each also had the face of an eagle. Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward, each wing touching that of the creature on each. It was just on either side and each had two other wings covering its body. Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go without turning as they went. The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire and like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures."
    },
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      "start": 10455.85,
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      "time_label": "2:54:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "It was bright and lightning flashed out of it. The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning. As I looked at the living creatures, I saw that they were like torches. I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels. They sparkled like topaz and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced. The wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome and all four rims were full of eyes all around. When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved, and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels."
    },
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      "start": 10505.99,
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      "time_label": "2:55:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "When the creatures moved, they also moved. When the creatures stood still, they also stood still. And when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. Spread out above the heads of the living creatures was what looked something like a vault sparkling like crystal and awesome under the vault their wings were stretched out one toward the other and each had two wings covering its body when the creatures moved i heard the sound of their wings like the roar of rushing water like the voice of the almighty like the tumult of an army when they stood still they lowered their wings then there came a voice from above the vault over their heads that they stood with their lowered wings above the vault over their heads was what looked like"
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      "time_label": "2:55:50",
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      "text": "a throne of lapis lazuli and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man i saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal as a full of life and that from there down he looked like fire and brilliant light surrounded him like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day so was the radiance around him this was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the lord when i saw it i fell face down and i heard a voice from above the vault over their heads it was what looked like a"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "the voice of one speaking okay let's go on to number two okay so you guys understand what's going on right i want you to compare contrast this with dante's meeting with god because this"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "is another meeting of god right ezekiel 2 he said to me son of man stand up on your feet and i will speak to you as he spoke the spirit came into me and raised me to my feet and i heard him speaking to me he said son of man i'm sending you to the israelites to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against me they and their ancestors have been involved against me to this very day the people to whom i'm sending you are obstinate and stubborn say to them this is what the sovereign lord says and whether they listen or fail to listen for there are rebellious people they will know that a prophet has been among them and you son of man do not be afraid of them or their words do not be afraid through briars and thorns are all around you and live among scorpions do not be afraid of what"
    },
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      "text": "they say and what they say and how they say and what they say and how they say and what they they say or be terrified by them though they're a rebellious people you must speak my words to them whether they listen or fail to listen for their rebellious but you son of man listen to what i say to you do not rebel like that rebellious people open your mouth and eat what i give you then i looked and i saw a hand stretched out to me and it was a scroll which he enrolled before me on both sides of it were written words of lament and mourning and woe okay and we'll do exactly three okay and then we'll stop ezekiel 3 and he said to me son of man eat what is before you eat this scroll then go and speak to the people of israel so i opened my mouth and he gave"
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      "text": "me the scroll to eat then he said to me son of man eat this scroll i'm giving you and fill your stomach with it so i ate it and it tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth he then said to me son of man go now to the people of israel and speak my words to them you're not being sent to people of obscure speech and strange language but to the people of israel not too many peoples of obscure speech and strange language whose words you cannot understand surely if i had sent you to them they would have listened to you but the people of israel are not willing to listen to you because they're not willing to listen to me for all the israelites are hardened and obstinate but i will make you as unyielding and hardened as they are i will make your forehead like the hardest stone harder than flint do"
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      "text": "not be afraid of them or terrified by them though they are a rebellious people and he said to me son of man listen carefully and take to heart all the words i speak to you go now to your people in exile and speak to them say to them this is what the sovereign lord says whether they listen or fail to listen then the spirit lifted me up and i heard behind me a loud rumbling sound as the glory of the lord rose from the place where it was standing it was the sound of the wings of the living creatures brushing against each other and the sound of the wheels beside them a loud rumbling sound the spirit then lifted me up and took me away and i went in bitterness and the anger of my spirit with the strong hand of the lord on me okay stop okay all"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "right okay so you guys there's this major difference between dante and ezekiel okay ezekiel is very much part of the biblical the apocalyptic tradition okay so we have ezekiel and we have dante and i want to compare contrast these two all right what are the differences you see let's let's just name them anyone yes"
    },
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      "text": "ezekiel thinks humans and people are bad and you don't it doesn't matter what they do"
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      "text": "just be good yourself okay so ezekiel says that these israelites are bad okay yes yes so god is judgmental is god judgmental in dante okay so god is love that's a major difference first god is judgmental in ezekiel but in dante god is love okay he's not doesn't judge you yes"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "and dante feels like he's is more general and ezekiel um describes a lot of details"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "okay all right so another big difference is that ezekiel is a person who is not explicit okay you cannot possibly misinterpret his message he tells you these lights suck go tell me they suck okay whereas dante he is much more ambiguous okay why would dante be much more ambiguous why is he not explicit yes because he wants um the readers to"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "there's just multiple ways to interpret his words"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "yeah free will right he wants you to make a decision as to how to interpret his poetry right god has given him free will to to interpret what he wants to interpret right donnie was invited to meet god but god didn't actually say donnie go do this right donnie can interpret the meaning any way he wanted right so yeah what else what are some other differences okay um so in ezekiel there's a commandment okay there's an order from god right whereas in dante it's more about vision and imagination okay vision it's up to your"
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      "text": "interpretation but with a commandment or a squirrel it's very written exactly yes okay"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "what are some other differences just to add on that well i mean just going back to uh paris 33 dante mentioned that the reason for the ambiguity and the vision is because god to his vision is to change and it's all it's it's um is it amorphic what's the what's the right word for its shape shifts right versus ezekiel who is i know god is like a general like he tells you abc if you if you"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "don't do abc that's it yeah look if you read ezekiel closely there's almost like a mechanical language to it okay it's mechanical uh whereas with dante it's more spiritual organic okay right what are some other differences"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "dante had to go through hell and purgatory to god exactly okay so for dante it was a journey right"
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      "text": "it was a journey a process and ezekiel it's a destination he was just he was just shown these visions he never choice in the matter there was no journey good what else okay we can go on and on okay the major difference of course is that whereas ezekiel it is a revelation it is something that is shown to you dante is an act of imagination okay it's something that you must imagine yourself okay it's something that you must actively create yourself there's a creative process okay does it make sense all right so again the purpose of the divine comedy is to change the world and so if you are um in year 1300 and you grew up in the ezekiel tradition where god is angry god is scary god wants you to be afraid of him donnie's trying to change that and make you um less afraid so you can be much more imaginative right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "so how does donnie accomplish this uh yes but but what is about divine comedy that allows people to lose their fear in god and allows me much more imaginative yes by saying that guys love so"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "oh and god will grant those who turn towards him so in in perfect love there's no fear oh in in the scriptures it's perfect love drives out fear so right but it's singing singing enough"
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      "text": "yes i think it's because he's making the unknown unknown so like uh people are scared of burning"
    },
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      "text": "hell people scared of what's waiting for them after they die exactly that's it to understand every all fair is just based on mystery on what you don't know what donnie has done is showing the completeness of the universe from hell all the way up to heaven every aspect of the cosmos he's revealed to you right okay so um let's do shakespeare hamlet the famous hamlet soliloquy okay to be or not to be"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "all right so where's we'll read this together okay okay to be or not to be that is the question and then also the answer to this gets drawn in to the preserved verses and i think it helps us read along here but i hope you can read this because this is going to be a big topic for all of us today and that's what dr. hamrick's question is well as jacob has raised this question for the world he's really telling us just how important it is for people to be able to observe all the messages that we get from this and to be able to give way for the pause there's the respect that makes calamity of so long life for who would bear the whips and scorns of time the oppressors wrong the proud man's continually the pangs of despised love the laws delay the insolence of office and the spurns that patient merit"
    },
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      "text": "of the unworthy takes when he himself might this quietus make with a bare bodkin who would fartles bear to grunt and sweat under a weary life but that the dread of something after death the undiscovered country from whose bore no traveler returns puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those wills we have than fly to others that we know not of thus conscious that does make cowards of us all and thus the native hue of resolution is sickly it over with the pale cast of thought and enterprises of great pith and moment with this regard their currents turn awry and lose the name of action you"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:07:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "so there is at yale or he was at yale but harold bloom was the greatest american literary critic he was a huge fan of william shakespeare uh in fact he argued that it was shakespeare that created modernity created was human um but you know i i mean it's been a while since i read shakespeare but just putting dante side by side with shakespeare i am not that impressed with shakespeare anymore okay i mean like it took a long time for him to say what dante would have said in one or two lines seriously what what is shakespeare's point here what what yes people don't die because they're afraid exactly it's that simple okay there's really no like great truth to what to what shakespeare is saying here all shakespeare is saying is that people don't ask because they're afraid of death why are they afraid of death because they don't know what death is it's"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "that simple okay so um maybe someone can convince you that it's not true it's not true it's not true okay so um maybe someone can convince you that it's not true it's not true it's not true that this is great literature but having read dante i am not as impressed but yeah so so so this is the basic i premise here okay it's because of the unknown that uh people are afraid and what don has done with the divine comedy is revealed the entire cosmos to the world and but then you're like wait a minute here he can just make all this up right right he's like why would people believe this and the answer is let's look at some pictures okay let's look at some pictures do you guys know what know what near -death experiences are near -death experiences okay so there's this guy uh the the the pictures that we have right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "okay so uh the first picture okay yeah here exactly okay okay guys look at the picture picture on the screen okay so there are people who have these near -death experiences and first of all what they describe is remarkably consistent okay they talk about how when they die they enter this realm which is beyond time and space which is complete unity and they meet god and god is pure love pure forgiveness non -judgmental all generosity okay it is remarkably consistent and one of the things that i think is really interesting is that there's a lot of these people actually remembered um the visions from his or her near -death experiences and look at the picture it's pretty similar to how donnie described heaven right where god and the angels are this huge spear of luminous light and everyone is surrounding them it's pretty similar to what donnie's described heaven right so it's pretty similar to"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "what donnie's described heaven okay uh let's go on to image two this is a uh ai rendering okay this is like again just exactly how donnie described paradise you see at the top all these angels flying around right you see at the core is god itself it's pretty similar and there's a hierarchy as well okay let's um this is an artist's rendition of dante and beatrice staring at the sky in the middle of the night at the imperium the angels surrounding it and god it's similar all right let's go to the last picture and this is dante constructing the hierarchy all paradise so not only did dante um give people a glimpse of heaven but it attunes to what people instinctively believe about heaven okay does anyone know about near deaf experiences what happens to people with near"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "deaf experiences do you guys know their life flashes before their eyes but what happens"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:12:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "afterwards they live yeah okay okay no no i mean yeah i understand okay yes that's why they're called near death experiences okay rather than to have experiences yeah but but it's interesting because like um they might be in a car crash or they might have had heart attack okay and they meet god and going god always asked them do you wanna go ahead and do it right um they asked god do you wanna go Opportunity death experience? or for those that made. death experience? dead? regarding the fact that you die Sickness? death experience or the ability to make a new life if you do that? death experience so there's a entire range of stages even in this world there aren't to study death experience really just the dance plate since medicare, death experience they analyze both cancer metsy Chungでも我 Yu Shi Jo Ko Mao want to stay here which is pure happiness"
    },
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      "text": "pure bliss or do you want to go back home and they always choose to go back home okay i'm saying saying like why do they go back home and what"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:12:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "happens to them after they go back home uh yes um it sounds really weird like how does god even determine this like uh at which point do god stop asking if you want to go home because i feel like if he asked every time there there will be a lot more people going home but why does god ask come"
    },
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      "text": "on guys do you want to go home no but why is god in my back we will come on we've been saying this for the past five classes okay free will is the fundamental law of the universe god can never force you do anything god must always ask you so everyone chooses to go back home and what happens"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "to this person to me uh they go they go back to the secular world to spread the message what message is this that god is love okay but what happens to the people who don't turn out to be big"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "uh youtubers who talking about their near -death experiences maybe they just pack up and go on"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "with their lives have you have you been on youtube have you looked at how many their deaf experience videos are on youtube there's like millions of them yeah yeah millions of them and there's way more people who don't talk about it um okay look there's a lot okay why would you want to"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:14:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "talk about it i think because that's everybody's question since like shakespeare said like no where no travelers return and then you're like oh wait i'm their traveler and they return yeah so i have to you know i'm the chosen messenger or something to tell people about what the ultimate philosophical question like oh where do we come from well the bible tells us that but we're going to heaven but nobody knows what it's like so i can"
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      "text": "kind of be the messenger what is the main message of these people with narrative experiences what do"
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      "time_label": "3:14:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "they tell others um the god is grace and god is love death is not the end yes okay don't fear death"
    },
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      "text": "don't lose your fear of death it is nothing it's only just another beginning uh yes does that mean"
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      "text": "that if you refuse to die you could technically live to live forever what saint wait wait um okay all right okay repeat that okay because you said that when you die people say that god asked them do you want to heaven or do you want to go home and then if you just always say go home can you technically live"
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      "text": "forever like that i think only in near -death experiences where you you are like between this gap of whether you can be saved or not by medical um intervention then god asks you to pick but if you're like dead dead like stone dead by car then you're just you know into after life"
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      "text": "that's actually that's actually a huge gap between like uh death and death and that's actually a huge gap so how does god determine this"
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      "text": "just have to trust him right no like what i mean like like if medical means cannot save you like you are like stone dead like super like if you are squeezed by a rock and you're like your brain shattered right then there's no way but if you are like kind of in a car concussion uh car accident you have concussion your brain's a bit shaken but not like crushed then maybe you know you got a"
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      "text": "choice i'm saying that there's a spectrum of there's a there's a spectrum of things here and i don't know at which point is the cutoff point like there are"
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      "text": "just god knows so if you see god god ask you the question then you you you know you have a choice"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "but if not uh yes uh i still have a question because the physics you keep telling us that nobody can die because we're just energy right energy will be forever in the universe but what if we don't feel afraid of death but what will fear which level we will be because after we die uh we have to go to some some heaven something we go to go to hell so if in that case you know we don't care about that but we care about in which level we will be in"
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      "text": "after death after you know uh okay so let me ask you this question okay let's just say we lose our fear of death how would you live your life if you lost your fear of death what would you do you may"
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      "text": "want to do whatever you want because if you don't fear of death you can't what would you do suicide"
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      "text": "what explain the here what would you what would you commit suicide if you if you lose your fear of death"
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      "text": "i mean you don't really care about living anymore so you might okay okay that's a possibility like"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "well you know like well fear of death um i don't like my life so i'll just kill myself yes what would you no no like imagine this okay use your love you should use your intuition use your imagination what would you do if you completely lost your fear of death"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "uh yeah you then you well that that's this expiration right that means the time you have you don't have any more time left so if you have infinite time then you would"
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      "text": "no that's not what i said i said you lose your fear of death i didn't say you live forever"
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      "text": "i said you lose your fear say you you don't have the sense you don't have this fear of death then you would procrastinate there would be no motivation to imagine to generate okay"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "oh sorry so you so you maybe live your life to the fullest because now you don't fear uh too much anymore and you want to live your life to the best of your ability so that you get more better place in heaven what would you do maybe get closer to god i guess like to to learn more about him so that you know i can end up in a higher sphere of heaven i guess okay you would go"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "and learn more right yeah okay yes um i once met this guy he told me he had a near -death experience when he was like 20 or in a very young and then afterward he felt that his life was on um was was on more was on extra time so his life has already ended he is on extra time and this time has just been gifted to him so he he's now like i think 80 something but he spent his whole life pursuing um sustainability and working an ngo and not making any money yeah that's what the"
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      "text": "majority of people think about him and i think that's what i think about him and i think that's what people will do maybe maybe not everyone okay maybe maybe somebody will just kill themselves but the majority of people will just live the life to the fullest we'll just do whatever you want to do now okay because you're not afraid of death anymore you're like i don't care i'm just gonna i have free will i have free choice okay uh yes so i think it's more of uh no one else goes"
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      "text": "to tell me how to live my life anymore so the whole the whole thing of the catholic church is that if you don't let us tell you what to do with your life then you're going to hell and it's going to be like you're going to hell and it's going to be like you're going to hell and it's going to be like horrible but not being afraid of death anymore not being afraid of this catholic help anymore means that you're free to do what you want deep down exactly that that's why donnie wrote divine"
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      "text": "comedy to free people of the fear of death because as you point out the real public catholic church is they make people afraid of death right if you don't obey us we'll send you to hell right if you don't obey us you won't get into heaven so what what the real purpose of divine comedy is to expand your imagination by uh liberating you from your fear of death and they and it does that by providing an imaginative universe that is complete that is detailed and which is all loving there's no fear in heaven right these angels aren't meant to scare you like in ezekiel they're meant to scare you uh god is meant to scare you but in divine comedy it's in heaven it's all embracing it's all forgiving it's all welcoming okay does that make sense okay any questions okay so um as i pointed out there's a reason why we did paradise first"
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0458",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12084s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0458",
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      "start": 12084.08,
      "end": 12149.66,
      "time_label": "3:21:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "and it's to really understand the cosmology of don to understand why he's doing what he's doing but ultimately um donnie's not working in a vacuum right it's not like he's doing what he's doing he's doing what he's doing he can just present this poetry and it'll be accepted because in this time of history there's a greater power than the catholic church and it's virgil okay you think it's the catholic church that has all the power but it's virgil the poet who has all the power because as we said what poetry does is that it embeds itself into the collective unconscious and the language and the beauty shapes the way you see the world so Dante's real conflict, his real enemy, is not the Catholic Church, it is Virgil, okay? So now what we'll do for the rest of this, rest of our time together, is explore this cosmic conflict between Virgil and Dante, and not"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0459",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12149s",
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      "start": 12149.66,
      "end": 12184.34,
      "time_label": "3:22:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "only that, but we will apply it to our world and see how this conflict is shaping our world, okay? Does that make sense? Okay, so now we are done with paradise, we're leaving paradise, and we're going to go to hell, okay? So this is Canto 1, Inferno. This is a great website, right? It's so easy to navigate. Yeah, go ahead."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 12184.58,
      "end": 12210.22,
      "time_label": "3:23:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "Does being in vegetative state include as part of near -death experiences? Because technically, I know a lot of people, once people can kind of know what you're thinking of, their first thought. It's like, to kill me. But we literally just said that if you're in near -death situation, God will ask you whether you want to live or not. So is this kind of like an exception to this concept? Like, I'm just a little bit confused, I'm sorry."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0461",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12211s",
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      "start": 12211.14,
      "end": 12251.28,
      "time_label": "3:23:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so the idea is, what happens if you're in a coma? Well, if you're in a coma, it's also very much like a near -death experience. And again, God asks you, do you want to live or not, right? Because there are people who wake up from a coma. And there are people who don't wake up from a coma. And I think a lot of it has to do with your will to live. Okay, does that make sense? Okay. All right. So this is Canto 1 of Inferno. Okay. All right. The very beginning."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0462",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12251s",
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      "start": 12251.46,
      "end": 12301.88,
      "time_label": "3:24:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Okay. When I had journeyed half of our lives away, I found myself within a shadowed forest, for I had lost the path that does not stray. Okay. All right. It is hard to speak of. It is hard to speak of what it was, that savage forest, dense and difficult, which even in recall renews my fear. So bitter death is hardly more severe. But to retell the good discovered there, I'll also tell the other things I saw. I cannot clearly say how I had entered the wood. I was so full of sleep just at the point where I abandoned the true path. But when I'd reached the bottom of a hill, it rose along the boundary of the valley that had harassed my heart with so much fear. I looked on high. I saw its shoulders clothed already by the rays of that same planet, which serves to lead men straight along all roads. At this,"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0463",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12301s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0463",
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      "start": 12301.98,
      "end": 12354.66,
      "time_label": "3:25:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "my fear was somewhat quieted, for through the night of sorrow, I had spent the lake within my heartfelt terror present. And just as he who with exhausted breath having escaped from sea to shore turns back to watch the dangerous waters he has quit, so did my spirit, still a fugitive, turn back to look intently at the past that never has let any of us go. I tried to leave the valley, but I could not. I let my tired body rest a while. Moving again, I tried the lonely slope. My firm foot always was the one below. And almost where the hillside starts to rise, look there. A leopard very quick in life, a leopard covered with a spotted hide. He did not disappear from sight but stayed. Indeed, he so impeded my ascent that I had often to turn back again. The time was the beginning of the morning. The sun was rising now in"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0464",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12354s",
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      "start": 12354.66,
      "end": 12413.5,
      "time_label": "3:25:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "fellowship. With the same stars that had escorted it when divine love first moved those things of beauty. So that the hour and the gentle season gave me good cause for hopefulness on seeing the beast before me with his speckled skin. But hope was hardly able to prevent the fear I felt when I beheld a lion. His head held high and ravenous with hunger. Even the air around him seemed to shudder. This lion seemed to make his way against me. And then as she would showed herself, she seemed to carry every craving in her leanness. She had already brought despair to many. The very sight of her so weighted me with fearfulness that I banded hope of ever climbing up that mountain slope. Even as he who glories while he gains will when the time has come to tally laws, lament with every thought and turn despondent. So was I when I faced that restless beast,"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0465",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12413s",
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      "start": 12413.6,
      "end": 12472.339,
      "time_label": "3:26:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "which even has. He's. She stalked me step by step, had thrust me back to where the sun is speechless while I retreated down to lower ground before my eyes. There suddenly appeared one who seemed faint because of the long silence when I saw him in that vast wilderness have pity on me where the words I cried, whatever you may be a shade, a man. He answered me, not man. I once was man. Both of my parents came from Lombardi and both claimed Mantua as native city. And I was born the late soup, Julio, and lived in Rome under the good Augustus, the season of the false and lying gods. I was a poet and I sang the righteous son of anchors who had come from Troy when flames destroyed the pride of Ilya. And why do you return to wretchedness? Why not climb up the mountain of the light, the origin and cause of every joy?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "time_label": "3:27:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "And are you then that vigil you, the fountain? That really pours so rich a stream of speech? I answered him with shame upon my brow, a light and honor of all other poets. May my long study and the intense love that made me search your volume serve me now. You're my master and my author. You the only one from whom my writing drew the noble style from which I have been honored. You see the beast that made me turn aside. Help me. Oh, famous sage to stand against her. For she has made. My blood and pulses shudder. It is another path that you must take. He answered when he saw my tearfulness. If you would leave the savage wilderness, the beast that is the cause of your outcry allows no man to pass along her track, but blocks him even to the point of death. Her nature is so squalid, so malicious that she can never sate her greedy will."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0467",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12530s",
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      "start": 12530.19,
      "end": 12586.5,
      "time_label": "3:28:50",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "When she has fed, she's hungrier than ever. She mates with many living souls. And shall yet mate with many more, until the grey hound arrives, inflicting painful death on her. That hound will never feed on land or pewter, but find his fair in wisdom, love, and virtue. His place of birth shall be between two felts. He will restore low -lying Italy, for which the maid Camilla died of wounds, and Nisus, Turnus, and Euryalus. And he will hunt that beast through every city until he thrusts her back to hell. For which she was first sent above by envy. Therefore I think and judge it best for you to follow me, and I shall guide you, taking you from this place through an eternal place, where you shall hear the howls of desperation and see the ancient spirits and their pain, as each of them laments his second death. And you"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0468",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12586s",
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      "start": 12586.5,
      "end": 12637.19,
      "time_label": "3:29:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "shall see these souls who are content within the fire, for they hope to reach, whenever that may be, the blessed people. If you would then ascend as high as these, a soul, more worthy than I am, will guide you. I'll leave you in her care when I depart. Because that emperor who reigns above, since I have been rebellious to his law, will not allow me entry to his city. He governs everywhere, but rules from there. There is his city, his high capital. Oh, happy those, he chooses to be there. And I replied, Oh poet by that god, whom you had never come to know, I beg you that I may flee this evil and worse evils to lead me to hell. the place of which you spoke that i may see the gateway of saint peter and those whom you describe as sorrowful then he set out and i moved on behind him okay so"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
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      "start": 12637.19,
      "end": 12639.39,
      "time_label": "3:30:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "this is the very beginning of divine"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 12639.39,
      "end": 12720.16,
      "time_label": "3:30:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "comedy and again we've been a paradise so we know exactly what this cosmology is um this is year 1300 and donna is like the middle age right so 35 or 40 and he is in a shadowed forest and he has absolutely no idea where he's going okay so he's basically in a midlife crisis and when he walks around he sees these beasts right and these beasts block his way forward and he's looking for escape and so virgil shows up and says let me guide you and then donnie's like you're my hero you're you are the person who i've worshipped all my life and um how can we bypass these beasts uh yes i have a question which is why is dante being so modest right now being so what modest modest modest being so modest okay that's because he's lying he's lost he's scared he's hungry if someone's gonna come and give you some food"
    },
    {
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      "start": 12720.16,
      "end": 12789.42,
      "time_label": "3:32:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "you you better be modest right right but also um does dante respect virgil yeah a lot right because at this time in history if you are um an educated person you all read virgil and how do you read virgil do you guys know no but like like like how do you study virgil all the time um you need to make the Virgil. You have to memorize Virgil. You don't actually sit down and analyze Virgil. You just memorize it word for word. And that's just how you learn Latin. And if you were educated, you had to speak Latin the way that Virgil spoke Latin. That's how you prove your eloquence. So Dante is in awe of Virgil. Dante sees Virgil as a father figure. Does that make sense? So you have to appreciate that at this time in history, Dante worships Virgil, and Virgil is going to be his guide. Okay, so let's continue the story where Virgil shows up, and Dante's like, how do we get past the beast?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 12789.68,
      "end": 12824.32,
      "time_label": "3:33:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "And Virgil says, you can't get past through the beast. You have to go through another way. You have to go through hell. Okay, so can someone explain to me what this is a metaphor for? First of all, why is Dante in the forest? Why is he in the forest? Why is he in the forest? Why is he in the forest? Why is he in the forest? lost and what do the bees represent and why the starting set what was virgil says you can actually you cannot actually defeat the bees you cannot actually confront the bees you just have to avoid the bees what is this a metaphor for yes uh actually i think beast is just kind of anger"
    },
    {
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0473",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=12824s",
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      "end": 12838.93,
      "time_label": "3:33:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "fear or some kind of you know which is not so good of character in his mind and the furries it means that he just get lost so he just be excel you know yeah yeah exactly that's that's exactly"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:33:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "correct right where he is middle -aged and his life sucks his life is falling apart uh he's been exiled from he's about to be exiled from florence his political faction uh the white guelphs are in conflict and losing to the black wealth okay so he's completely lost that's like how do they get to this point i see no possible path forward and he is consumed by angst by anger by hatred by fear and that confuses you that that blinds you from seeing any possible path and what virgil is saying to me is like you cannot actually confront your anger you can't confront your hatred you can't confront your fear the only thing you can do is learn more open your mind develop your imagination and then these p's will naturally go away does that make sense guys never ever try to confront your anger i never try to front, your fear, your doubts, that doesn't get you anywhere."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Develop more experiences, right? So let's just say that you have problems with your parents, okay? You really, really hate your parents. You go to a therapist and your therapist tells you, well we need to talk to you about your parents, okay? So talk about all these memories you have as your, as a child, right? And we will through talk therapy reimagine your childhood, okay? Is that a good idea? Would I agree to this?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "time_label": "3:35:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Why not? Why not? What's the problem with that? Because I'll be like just like the metaphor like facing the beast and I don't think like by, by confronting with your anger you can like, like you can find like a resolution throughout that. That's what Donnie says, but why? What happened?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened?"
    },
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      "text": "What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What happened? What"
    },
    {
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      "start": 12993.61,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "get over this so you go out and have life experiences yourself you go out fall in love"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:36:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "become a parent yourself and then you understand your parents okay exactly okay okay that's the better path and and that's what virgil's saying like let's not do talk therapy let's not go to therapy guys because because all that's going to do is feed the beast it'll just make you more trapped in this forest let us go through hell and then if you see what anger fear and hatred does to people this will help you elevate or help you alleviate reduce your anger fear uh yes um to me"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:37:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "it seems a lot like you're it seems like uh what they're suggesting is more like ignoring stuff and distracting yourself or stuff rather than confronting stuff okay what what's the response"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "it seems like donnie's is running away right what what's the response anyone yeah yeah well i mean"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:37:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "that's the point of what he's saying"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:37:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "it's not to confront us to find a new way yeah you don't have to confront something to defeat something okay you can go around that thing why do you need to run into a wall we can just walk"
    },
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      "text": "around the wall yeah yeah it's kind of like the chinese wisdom i guess it's like you kind of go around it you don't have to go straight to show that you defeat it or confront it directly you can still solve the problem in many different ways right what i'm trying to say is that yeah you can"
    },
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      "text": "ignore it and for the time being and that it's going to be way better than if you do talk therapy if you dive deep down into it but the point is that it's still there and it might ambush you every single day like when you're angry truly angry about something it might ambush you every single day and it might ruin everything else so why not confront it you are confronting it by going to hell"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "already so you're still taking an active action to get rid of it by going to hell so you solve it it"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "and so just going to hell solves me all my problems like i take to yeah like i take a round"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "trip to hell and it solves the problems uh yes uh maybe because you know uh all of this anger fear it cannot be distinguished it cannot be destroyed it just always may exist in your mind so you do better you just not just to kill them or or unless you cure yourself right so you had better to"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "avoid it maybe okay yeah so something i struggled with personally is we just finished the paradiso and so he was a he was arrogant and enlightened person there and so it's it's struggling for me to then go back to the inferno where he's a flawed sinful person without all the answers and he's got to go through the next three books to get most of the answers so maybe he is making some mistakes maybe he's not perfect right at this moment"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:39:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "yeah right okay so he has to go through this journey if he's if he's the sand yeah right okay so he has to go through this journey if he's if he's the sand to heaven if he's trying to find his true self, okay? All right, let's keep on reading."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Canto two. The day was now departing. The dark air released the living beings of the earth from work and weariness, and I myself alone prepared to undergo the battle both of the journeying and of the pity, which memory mistaking not shall show. O muses, O high genius, help me now. O memory that set down what I saw. Here shall your excellence reveal itself. I started. Poet, you who are my guide, see if the force in me is strong enough before you let me face that rugged pass. You say that he who fathered Silvius, while he was still corruptible, had journeyed into the deathless world with his live body. For if the enemy of every evil was courteous to him, considering all he would cause and who and what he was, that does not seem incomprehensible, since in the imperialist world, the enemy of every evil was courteous to him, considering all he would cause and who and what he was."
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      "start": 13249.58,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "He was chosen to father, honored Rome and her empire. And if the truth be told, Rome and her realm were destined to become the sacred place, the seat of the successor of great Peter. And through the journey you ascribed to him, he came to learn of things that were to bring his victory into the papal mantle. Later, the chosen vessel traveled there to bring us back assurance of that faith with which the way to our salvation starts. But why should I go there? Who sanctions it? For I am not Aeneas, I am not Paul, nor I nor others think myself so worthy."
    },
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      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so again, he's being really, really modest here, right? He's saying, Virgil says, like, we have to go into hell. And Donna is saying, it's like, I'm not worthy at all, because you think of all these major figures who's been to hell. I'm not worthy, right? Because who's been to hell? You have Aeneas, who's the hero of the Aeneid. You have Paul, and who else do you have? Jesus, yes, the chosen vessel. Jesus has been to hell, okay? So it's almost like a special privilege, where you don't die, but you still go to hell. It's only if you're a really, really special person would you have that access, okay? So Donna's like, I'm not worthy, Virgil."
    },
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      "text": "I can't, go into hell and uh first 34 therefore if i consent to start this journey i hear my venture may be wild and empty you're wise you know far more than what i say and just as he who unwills what he wills and shifts what he intends to seek new when so that he's drawn from what he had begun so was i in the midst of that dark land because with all my thinking i know the task i had so quickly undertaken if i have understood what you have said replied the shade of that great hearted one your soul has been assailed by cowardice which often weighs so heavily on a man distracting him from honorable trials as phantoms frighten beasts when shadows fall that you may be delivered from this fear i'll tell you why i came and what i heard when i first felt"
    },
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      "start": 13394.21,
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      "time_label": "3:43:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "compassion for your pain okay so do you understand like donnie right now in his middle age he is lost in the forest because of his fear okay he has been ceased by fear um uh keep going verse 52 i was among those souls who are"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "suspended a lady called to me so blessed so lovely that i implored to serve at her command her eyes surpassed the splendor of the stars and she began to speak to me so gently and softly with angelic voice she said oh spirit of the courteous manchuan whose fame is still a presence in the world and shall endure is long as the world lasts my friend who has not been the friend of fortune is hindered in his path along that lonely hillside he has been turned aside by terror from all that i have heard of him in heaven he is i fear already so astray that i have to come to help him much too late go now with your persuasive word with all that is required to see that he escapes bring help to him that i may be consoled for i am beatrice who sends you on i come from where i most long"
    },
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      "start": 13467.67,
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      "time_label": "3:44:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "to return love prompted me that love which makes me speak when once again i stand before my lord then i shall often let him hear your praises now beatrice was silent i began"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "okay stop okay all right so virgil is telling dante how virgil came to him right so donnie is lost in the forest and beatrice up in heaven here's dante's pain fear agony and beatrice uh with permission from god descends to hell where virgil is and says virgil please help my friend dante if you help my friend dante god will give you a special consideration okay why is dante being helped by god why would god care yes because beatrice wants"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "him to be helped"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "to lift him out of hell okay so so let's think about this okay all right um so why would god"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "care about dante wants him to write he wants him to be a poet and write record see and record all"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "these things and how would god know like dante is a chosen one like there's a lot of people in the world why dante yes of his love for beatrice yes okay you understand the logic of this okay regardless of dante's fear anger and hatred regardless of the fact that he's lost in the forest he still has this passion for beatrice that doesn't allow beatrice to ascend to heaven okay god's like hey beatrice what are you doing here if he's just like well funny loves me a lot so i'm here and and then god's like wait wait who is this tony guy right so donnie is special because he for his poetry is able to elevate beatrice to heaven and now that dante is lost in the woods um beatrice will now reciprocate right says well you know you you are a special person who put me here you're lost and so we're gonna help you"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "find your way because your true mission is to ascend to the top here that's the Lord his father your king heaven and write the divine comedy, okay, does that make sense? Okay, all right, but you appreciate why I had to teach paradise first, right, because if I thought this first, we'd just be confused, okay, but now that we know what the ending is, we can go back and see how it was constructed, but another way of saying this is like, think about the year 1300, you didn't have a computer, right, how are you, how are you able to do this, conceive the entire thing in its totality, even before you wrote anything down, right, you saw, you see how the beginning connects so well to the ending, does it make sense, like, how are you going to do this, it's like, basically, you know, being able to write the entire TV series, all 10 seasons,"
    },
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      "start": 13688.56,
      "end": 13690.68,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "even before you begin to write episodes,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "episode one, yes, do we know for sure Dante wrote the Inferno first, yes, yes, because he published"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Inferno first, yes, right, so, so, so, he had patrons, and he would write these manager forms for his patrons, so he first published the Inferno, then published Purgatory, then published Paradiso, but, like, what is shocking is that there are no inconsistencies, do you understand, there are actually no inconsistencies between the paradise and in between,"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "the paradise and the Inferno, how is he able to do this, does anyone know, I mean, he has to have a preconception, I don't know, either it's divine, or he has to have a preconception of the structure that he's going to use for all of this, right, right, but I'm saying, like, how is he able to do"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "this, right, do you guys know, okay, so, let me explain how he's able to do this, and again, I'm not him, I don't know, okay, but for Dante, the world of, um, Inferno, Purgatory, and Paradiso are real worlds with real people, does that make sense, they're more real to him than his own world, and so, when he traveled in these worlds, he was meeting these people, and these people were separate from him, and they were real people, so he was actually meeting Virgil, and talking to Virgil, and Virgil was talking to him, not as a figment of Dante's imagination, but as Virgil, the real person who wrote the In the Ad, does that make sense, okay, he's like, there's no other way to do this, how else could you construct something so vast, so complete, and so consistent, so coherent, unless it was a real world to you, and you wanted this world meeting real people, with real psychology, real motivations, make sense."
    },
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      "start": 13825.48,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "All right, let's keep on going. Verse 76. And again, again, like, we have already read Paradise, so we know exactly what happens. So we can spot any inconsistencies, right, in Inferno. And I'm telling you right now, there is none. There's absolutely no inconsistencies in the, in any of the Divine Comedy. And again, if you, if you are able to use your imagination, you can reason out everything within it. It's all logically coherent and consistent. This is pretty amazing, okay, because you can't do that, actually do this with any other text. Actually, sorry, Homer. You can do this with Homer, okay? Keep on going. Line 76."
    },
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      "text": "O Lady of Virtue, the sole reason why the human race surpasses all that lies beneath the heaven with the smallest spheres, so welcome is your wish that even if it were already done, it would seem terrible to you. O Lady of Virtue, the sole reason why the human race surpasses all that lies beneath the hell with the smallest spheres, so welcome is your wish that even if it were already done, it would seem entrance place where you want to return Because you want to fathom things so deeply I now shall tell you promptly, she replied, why I'm not afraid to enter here. One ought to be afraid of nothing other than things possessed of power to do us harm. But things innocuous need not be feared. God in his graciousness has made me so that this song ofêeller your misery cannot touch me. I can withstand the fire's flaming here. In heaven there's a gentle"
    },
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      "text": "lady, one who weeps for the distress toward which I send you, so that stern judgment up above is shattered. And it was she who called upon Lucia, requesting of her, now your faithful one has need of you, and I commend him to you. Lucia, enemy of every cruelty, arose and made her way to where I was, sitting beside the venerable Rachel. Again, remember, okay, we've been to paradise, we know exactly where Beatrice is, right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Beatrice is sitting next to Rachel, and it says it here as well, okay? There's actually no inconsistency in divine comedy. Keep on going. Verse 103, she said,"
    },
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      "text": "you Beatrice, true praise of God, why have you not helped him who loves you so that for your sake he's left the vulgar crowd? Do you not hear the anguish in his cry? Do you not see the death he wars against upon the world? Do you not hear the anguish in his cry? Do you not see the death he wars against upon that river ruthless as the sea? No one within this world has ever been so quick to seek as good or flee as harm as I, when she had finished speaking thus to come below."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Why doesn't Beatrice know about Donny's agony? Why? So Donny is in agony, and someone else had to tell Beatrice. But why didn't Beatrice know for herself? They're all up in heaven, they can say everything together. Why didn't Beatrice know for herself? Why did someone have to tell her? Dante is in pain, he's in pure agony, he has become overwhelmed with fear, doubt, anger, hatred, and Beatrice is the last to know, right? Even though they have this cosmic divine connection together. Why? Because you love this person so much you don't want that person to know. Exactly, okay, you understand. It's because Dante loves her so much, he does not want her to know he is in pain, okay? Again, the consistency here, right? Think about how consistent this is. All right, let's keep on going. Line 112. To come below,"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:54:41",
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      "text": "down from my blessed station, I trusted in your honest utterance which honors you and those who have listened to you. When she had finished with her words to me, she turned aside her gleaming, tearful eyes which only made me hurry all the more. And just as she had wished, I came to you, I snatched you from the path of the fierce beast that barred the shortest way up the fair mountain. What is it then? Why? Why do you resist? Why does your heart host so much cowardice? Where are your daring and your openness as long as there are three such blessed women concerned for you within the court of heaven and my words promise you so great a good? As little flowers which the chill of night has bent and huddled, when the white sun strikes down, they grow straight and open fully on their stems. So did I too with my exhausted force and"
    },
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      "start": 14130.4,
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      "time_label": "3:55:30",
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      "text": "such warm daring rushed into my heart that I, as one who has been freed again, began. Oh, she compassionate who has helped me and you who courteous obeyed so quickly the true words that she had addressed to you. You with your words have so disposed my heart to longing for this journey. I returned to what I was at first prepared to do. Now go, a single willful, both of us. You're my guide, my governor, my master. These were my words to him. When he advanced, I entered on the steep and savage path."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay, so to summarize, Dante is lost, he's afraid, and he's confused. He doubts everything, right? So Virgil comes to him and says, Dante, let us, I will guide you forward. And Dante is so consumed with fear that he doubts everyone. He says, Virgil, I don't really belong in hell. I really don't believe we can journey this way. And Virgil says, I see your fear, I see your doubt. But let me assure you that the person who is really helping you is not me, but Beatrice. And at the mention of the name Beatrice, Dante is able to fully trust Virgil now and fully trust himself. Okay, so not, not so by. helping Beatrice ascend to heaven, basically Dante has imagined his own salvation, right? Okay, so that's it for today. Are there any questions about today? Yes? Why did Virgil agree to help Dante? What does Virgil say?"
    },
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      "text": "Virgil said Beatrice sent him?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No, no, but I'm saying, why did Virgil tell Dante? Do you guys remember? It's actually why most guys do stuff, by the way, yeah?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Like the three ladies asked Virgil to help."
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      "time_label": "3:57:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Not the three ladies, one lady, right? It's actually the reason why most guys do stuff in life, okay? Seriously. Right? Why, why, why?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "To reconsider to put him in."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No, no, it's why guys do stuff in life, okay? Why? Some ladies asked him to do, some beautiful lady asked him to go do it, right? Do you understand? It's because Beatrice is beautiful. It's like, ah, she's really hot. I'll go do it. It's really that simple, okay? Don't overthink guys, right? Men are not that complicated. If a beautiful woman comes to me and says, hey, I need to go do something, I'll go do it. I don't care what it is, right? Is this a revelation to you? Did you not know this before?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "I just didn't expect it."
    },
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      "start": 14322.22,
      "end": 14370.47,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. So, the divine comedy, the reason why it's so powerful, the reason why it's lasted even to today is it's truth and beauty, right? Because it's able to resonate with you. Because the people inside the divine comedy are real people, right? Virgins motivations, his psychology, it is what a real person would do. A real guy, the really hot lady said, go help my friend, the guy would go do it, okay? He's not going to think, oh, well, maybe she'll give me a million bucks, or maybe, oh, hey, maybe she'll get me in heaven. He doesn't care. Okay? All right? So, again, this is a remarkable achievement. And by the way, this is your 1300, right? So, this is before Mars psychology, right? This is before we know so much about human emotions. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "On top of, the reason why we started with paradisial, on top of the structure, are there any other reasons that you started with paradisial? Yeah."
    },
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      "text": "So, the main reason is that, and this is really hard for people to appreciate, because they only read Inferno, but Virgil is an unreliable narrator. Do you understand? So, everything that Virgil tells Dante is not true. And it's really strange. And this is why people don't really understand the divine comedy. Because they take Virgil's words as Dante's words. And it's not true. If you read paradisial, and you hear what Virgil says about God, about hell, about love, it's all in contradiction with paradise. Okay? Do you understand? And like, once you understand that, then you understand what's really motivating Dante. Dante's real mission is to displace Virgil as the poet of the universe. And replace him with his poetry. Does that make sense? That's what his real mission is. That's what the real battle is."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Paradisial is Dante in his Paris form, whereas starting from Inferno, he's kind of learning how he wants to write, the Divine Heart, or rather, it's the beginning of his connection."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "No. So what Dante believes is, the road to truth, you must first pass through untruth. You understand? You must learn what's wrong, and figure out why it's wrong for yourself, before you can actually access the truth. That's why you have to go through hell. Right? In hell, everything is going to lie to you. And everything you believe is going to be wrong. But then you, for purgatory, you slowly begin to reveal the truth to yourself. Okay? But you have to pass through that path of miseducation, in order to receive the truth. You must embrace the lie, before you can actually seek the truth. Okay? So, so again, um, um, something that you will notice, is that, what Virgil will say, throughout the Inferno, is completely contradictory, to what we will know in Paradise. Okay? And unfortunately, again, uh, the way that Divine Comedy is taught is wrong. You're just taught Inferno, and that's it. Without"
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      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-r526-wug3me/transcript/#seg-0532",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526_WuG3mE&t=14501s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0532",
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      "start": 14501.53,
      "end": 14545,
      "time_label": "4:01:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "actually knowing, and fully experiencing this journey, from Inferno to Paradise, you can't actually appreciate, Donny's message. All right? Okay. So, that's it for today. I will see you guys tomorrow. Okay? And please, please, review everything that we've learned, just so that you can, test what I've been teaching. Okay? Make sure that, what I've been teaching, conforms to the actual text. And if it doesn't, then bring this up. Okay? Because, because then you'll be helping me learn as well. All right? Okay. I'll see you guys tomorrow. Excuse me? What, what, what, like, I'll eat food now. Right? So, so if you eat the next five cantos, you'll be fine."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
      "date_label": "2026-06-20, day precision",
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      "start": 14545.32,
      "end": 14545.56,
      "time_label": "4:02:25",
      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Oh."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-r526-wug3me",
      "title": "Question Peter, Leave Beatrice, Defeat Virgil",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #5 (Saturday, June 20 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-20",
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      "start": 14545.88,
      "end": 14549.85,
      "time_label": "4:02:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay. All right. Thanks girl."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0001",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=28s",
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      "start": 28.08,
      "end": 78.57,
      "time_label": "0:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, good morning. So, these next two classes, today and on Saturday, will be the most intense classes of the series, of the seminar. And the reason why is that we will go from channel 24, and we will read every line up to channel 33, to the end of Divine Comedy. There's a very good reason why I'm doing this, okay? But before I start, are there any issues from yesterday, any questions from yesterday? That is... You would like me to address, yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0002",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=79s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0002",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0002",
      "start": 79.88,
      "end": 112.41,
      "time_label": "1:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "So, in channel 24, line 83, he added, So, why would Dante, in heaven, talking about faith, compare his faith to a coin, and his self to a purse?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
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      "start": 113.05,
      "end": 125.01,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so, you're jumping ahead. We actually have not come to this section yet, okay? So, this is something we'll do today. So, could you please wait until we get to this section? Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0004",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=126s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0004",
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      "start": 126.01,
      "end": 189.53,
      "time_label": "2:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "So, in Canto 11, that's the one where, in line 5, he says, One was set on the priesthood, and then in line 8, it said, One labored. Tangled in the delights of flesh. So, that's Canto 11, lines 5 and 8. He seems to be doing almost like a... Talking about the bad qualities between the mind, body, and spirit, it seems like. And so, it seems to me that he's, like, calling out the Catholic Church, perhaps, as, like, tangled in the delights of flesh. Would the delights of flesh be sex? And so, it's almost... Yeah, and what is your interpretation? So, it seems like he's calling out... One after the other. Like, he calls out, in line 4, like, One meant to plunder. One to politic. One labored. Tangled in the delights of flesh. One was fully bent on indolence. And so, I got this as, like, all the ways you could corrupt the mind with the sophists."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0005",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=189s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0005",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0005",
      "start": 189.69,
      "end": 212.08,
      "time_label": "3:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Like, I'm going to sell you knowledge, but knowledge is free. We can just pick up a book. The second is the body. I can sell the body. And that would be prostitution. But then the other would be the spirit, the selling of salvation. And I didn't know if... He was, like, calling out the Catholic Church, which seems like... I know that he has problems with the Catholic Church, but I didn't think he'd call them out, so..."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0006",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=212s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0006",
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      "start": 212.08,
      "end": 278.51,
      "time_label": "3:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "He's actually pretty blatant about this. Throughout the Divine Comedy, he will refer to the idea of indulgences. Okay? The idea of indulgences is, okay, let's just say you're a really bad person, but you are filthy rich. And you're like, okay, I'm going to die now, and I know I'm going to hell, but is there... Is there a loophole? And the Catholic Church says, yes, it's called indulgences, where if you pay a certain fine or contribution, donation to the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church will reduce your penance in purgatory. So this is a very common practice at this time. And the Catholic Church is using it to finance things like St. Peter's Basilica. Okay? And so Donnie is criticizing this crowd. And in fact, the more we go into heaven, the more blatant the criticism is. Okay? So that's something to watch out for. So thank you for the question. Any more questions before we start class?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0007",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=278s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0007",
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      "start": 278.51,
      "end": 353.59,
      "time_label": "4:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So again, we have a lot to do today and on Saturday. So let me set the scene, okay? Donnie will die in the year 1321 after having completed the Divine Comedy. The columns that we're reading today and on Saturday, the last 10 cantos, he's writing this a year or two years before he dies. Okay? He's basically writing like three lines a day. And I want you to close your eyes and picture where Dante is in his life and in history. Okay? It's like 1320, 1319. His exile from Florence, his home. But not only his home, but the home of his ancestors. Of his entire family. His beloved enemies, the black wealths, control Florence. And they have confiscated his property. So he's lost all his wealth. He has no hope of ever returning to Florence. The Pope, Boniface, is the one who's conspiring against him. Okay? So you have the Pope angry at you."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0008",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=354s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0008",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0008",
      "start": 354.01,
      "end": 427.44,
      "time_label": "5:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And yes, you are living in nice mansion, sponsored, given. To you by a patron of yours. But you are a beggar. And at this time in your life, you know you're going to die soon. And you are filled with despair because you know you'll probably never go home again to Florence. If you do go home to Florence, you will never reclaim the glory that your family once had. And you finish both Inferno and Purgatory. They've been both posthumous. They're being published as manuscripts and they're being circulated around and the feedback you've been getting is very positive, but you don't know what the reception will be. You don't know if people will truly appreciate and honor your contribution. And you're also afraid of Catholic Church because you've been very critical of Catholic Church and it's very easy for one of your enemies, the black wealth, to point out this manuscript, the Divine Comedy, give it to the Pope and said, this is heresy."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0009",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=427s",
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      "start": 427.5,
      "end": 497.79,
      "time_label": "7:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "He is criticizing the church. He is promoting ideas that are heretical. Okay. So this is the very bottom of Dante's life. And he's got another year or two years before he dies. And at this point in history, the closest analogies we have are Jesus. Right. So imagine the Last Supper. You're Jesus and you know you're going to die the next day. You know that Judas Iscariot, who is sitting with you at the Last Supper, by the way, one of your closest disciples, he will betray you to the Pharisees or the Sadducees. I can't remember. Okay. But you'll be betrayed by one of your closest followers. And the only faith that awaits you is your pain. Painful, agonizing, very slow death. Okay. Being crucified is one of the worst things that can happen to you because you may not know this, but when you are being crucified on the cross, what kills you is not the bleeding."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0010",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=497s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0010",
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      "start": 497.87,
      "end": 553.9,
      "time_label": "8:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "What kills you is the fact that you're too weak to hold your head high. So you slowly suffocate to death. And it's like a three to four day process. It's the most painful way to die. And that's why the Romans practiced this. Okay. You know this is going to happen to you. So how do you feel at this point? Okay. And this gives you insight to how Dante is feeling at this point. Another analogy is Moses, the prophet of God, the one who rescued the Jews from slavery in Egypt and took them to a promised land, which is Jerusalem. And for 40 years, you, Moses, have been wandering. And the Jews. And the Jews. And the Jews have been wandering around in the desert. And at this end of 40 years, God comes to you and the vision says, Moses, you've sacrificed everything to free your people from captivity."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0011",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=556s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0011",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0011",
      "start": 556.14,
      "end": 646.26,
      "time_label": "9:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "You will not walk into the promised land. Okay. You can see it, but you will not walk into it. So imagine how Moses is feeling at this time. Okay. And so what is magical? What is? truly courageous about Dante is that in this time of his greatest despair, when he has absolutely no evidence, no proof that divine comedy will in fact change the world, he chooses to embrace faith, hope, and love. And then he writes these next ten cantos that will forever change human history. These next, what we'll be reading today on Saturday are, it's shocking, and it is magical, and it, and I don't think anyone has truly revealed what Dante is thinking, okay? So think of these last ten cantos as Dante's will and testament to humanity. What his hope for is humanity. And again, no one has really in depth revealed this will and testament. So think of this as"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0012",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=646s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0012",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0012",
      "start": 646.26,
      "end": 725.16,
      "time_label": "10:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "just the intention of the universe where Dante finishes in 1321, and then nine years later, we gather in Beijing to reveal to the world his will and testament. And the reason why is today we really need to truly understand Dante's thinking. So there will be three rules for the next two classes, okay? The first rule, which is the most important, is stay focused. We are here in order to reveal the will and testament of Dante. This has never been done before, and it has to be done. Okay, that is our mission for the next two days. We are going to read Dante line by line and truly understand what his message is to humanity. And it is shocking, it's revolutionary, and it will be cathartic for us, okay? So stay focused on this. Second thing is to fully participate. Many of you have come a long way to be here in order to experience Dante."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0013",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=725s",
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      "start": 725.58,
      "end": 813.66,
      "time_label": "12:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "The only way you can make the most of your experience is by fully participating. Yesterday, we had two new members of this class start to participate, and that led to richer discussion. Believe that each and one of you, you do matter, and your contribution does make this class better, okay? More lively, more rich, more imaginative, all right? So please try to participate as much as possible. And the third thing is to, act with faith, hope, and love, okay? In other words, put away for these next two classes, your ego, your fear, and your doubt, okay? This class is meant to be one of faith, hope, and love. I understand that in school, you're taught to be critical. You're taught to, think critically and read critically, and to introspect and to interrogate, okay? I'm just saying, put away that training for the next two days, and let's just focus on acting with faith, hope, and love."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0014",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=815s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0014",
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      "start": 815.41,
      "end": 886.56,
      "time_label": "13:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So what we're gonna do first is figure out what is faith, what is hope, and what is love. What we discussed last class is that faith is ultimately an act of imagination. Okay? What Paul tells us is that there is a plan. What Dante will tell us is we are the plan, okay? Do you understand the difference? Paul is like, there is a plan. Dante's like, we are the plan. Our imagination is what animates the universe, okay? What we're gonna learn today is that hope, and this is like really interesting, is, okay? What is hope? Hope is arrogance. This is a really key concept to Dante, and that's why, again, he's shocking, he's revolutionary. If you truly want to change the world for better, you need hope, but hope is not humility. Hope is not believing God will change the world for you. Hope is arrogance, which is saying, I can change the world for the better."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay? So, So when we say hope, it means, like, together we will reveal Dante's will and testament and show the world how humanity can be better off, okay? It's an act of hope, but it's really an act of arrogance. And for Dante, that's very, very crucial. Yes? Did you have a question?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "text": "Are you getting there because one hopes introspectively, and so you have the I and the ego? I can't hope for you. Like, even if I'm hoping for you, I'm the one that's hoping. And so are you saying it's arrogance because it's I -focused?"
    },
    {
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      "text": "Okay, so again, let's go back to the image of Dante alone in his room, writing Divine Comedy by himself, while in exile, in isolation, right? There is no evidence that Divine Comedy will become the greatest work of literature in human history. There's absolutely no evidence. There's no evidence at all. And if he were humble, he'd be like, you know what? The chances are that whatever I write will have made an impact to people around me, but it won't really change the world for the better. In which case, if that humility, he would just be like, I give up. He's not really worth my while, right? What hope is to say, I see that. I see that. Now, there's going to be people in China, in Beijing, who will read me and who will worship me and who will love me. Okay? That's an act of arrogance. Right? It's an act of hope. When you think about it, it's really an act of arrogance."
    },
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      "text": "Say, like, I am the most important person in the world, and I will live forever, eternally. And that hope is what allows him to survive for the next one or two years. And put all his focus and energy. energy into complete and divine harmony. Without hope, without arrogance, he could not have done so. Right? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "How would you say this is different from his ego? Excuse me? How would you say this arrogance and hope is?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right. Because what he's doing is he's trying to change the world. Do you understand? So it's an act of, he's gifting himself to the world. He's saying like, my last year or two years, it is not to enjoy myself. It is not to go around, have dinners where all these dukes, these princes are praising my poetry. Because he could do that, right? He could be like, you know, I've ridden the Inferno, I've ridden the Purgatory, it's fantastic. And I'm getting all these patrons, and they all, because they all want to be in my poetry. So I'll just go around to these different courts, and I will sing their praises, and they'll give me a lot of money, and I can enjoy myself. And no, he's like, no, I'm going to stay in my room, away from all the attention, and just focus on finishing the line comedy. Okay?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And when you actually read the last two cantos, it is extremely arrogant, and, but it's also an extremely selfless act, where he is trying to show humanity a better future. Right? It's like Jesus at the Last Supper, and he knows he's going to make the ultimate sacrifice for humanity, but, he's arrogant about it. He's like, only I can save humanity. Only I can redeem humanity. Right? And whereas Moses, Moses, again, he traveled in the desert for 40 years, and God says to him, well, sorry, you can't walk on the palm of your hand, you can't sit in front of the palm of your hand, you can see it from afar, but that's it. And Moses is, it doesn't matter. Um, the, the, the Jews will remember me as the greatest prophet. And it is, it is true. If you read the Bible, he is the greatest prophet, okay? Alright? So, it's an act of, um, arrogance, but it's also an act of selflessness, okay?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Alright, uh, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Um, so, something I would, I'd like to ask is that, when Dante was doing all of this, when he was doing this selfless sacrifice, was he doing it with the expectation that it will come to fruitation?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 1165.81,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Uh, that's what hope is, yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "So, if he is doing it with the expectation that it's all coming to fruitation, then isn't he being a little bit, uh, heretical? Because he is expecting God to do something for him?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes, like, as I will show you things, the next two cantos, divine comedy is pure heresy, okay? If you are a Catholic church, uh, priest, and you are able to read divine comedy in year 1321, you'd be very, very angry, alright? But again, there's something you can do about it, because you understand in your heart, that all art is, comes from God as the source, okay? So, there is both, um, anger at Dante, but there's also deep, fair respect towards Dante, uh, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Out of curiosity, how do you think they would have rationalized that at the time, seeing that there's this work that criticizes the Catholic church, but that it's God's will to criticize the Catholic church?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right, so, that's a great question. In psychology, there's a phrase called cognitive dissonance. Right? So, you read divine comedy, and you're a Catholic priest, and you're like, oh, he's praising God! He's praising the church, the bride of God, right? So, this is cognitive dissonance. That's why cognitive dissonance is so powerful, because only if you truly understand him can you truly, uh, appreciate what he's doing. Okay? Because, remember where we are. We are, um, Dante is now studied every he can from Beatrice, and now he's being tested by, Peter, James, and John, the three apostles, right? He's also being tested in an academic setting uh, that has been approved by the Catholic church. So, you, if you read this on the surface, um, then you have to think that Dante is a very pious individual. And quite honestly, the Catholic church today believes Dante is a true Christian, okay? Like, like, it's, I mean, I"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "mean, what I will teach you is that he's heretical, but you have to have a very nuanced understanding of him in order to appreciate this. Okay? Does that make sense? Okay? Uh, yes?"
    },
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      "time_label": "21:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "I'm not talking about his heresy in the eyes of the Catholic church. I'm talking about his heresy in the eyes of his own construction, of his own belief of God. So, according to his definition, God is ineffable. You cannot expect him to do something, and he will do it. However, right here, he is expecting God to reward him for his effort. Um, okay."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1320.01,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So, um, we've been, um, learning about Dante for the past four days, and it's pretty obvious to me from this comment that you made, that you don't really understand what's, what's being taught here, what, what Dante is really trying to teach. God is all -loving, all -forgiving, uh, and we will, we will look at this, okay? Just, just keep your doubts, um, in check. Let's just focus on what he's going to tell us. Uh, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 1351.3,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Oh, I'm just really interested how, like, the Catholic Church at the time responded to Dante. Like, were there any works that they published, or, like, um, speeches that they made since, yes."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1364.51,
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      "time_label": "22:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so some historical context. Why Dante is able to do what he's doing is because the world is in turmoil, because the Catholic Church is split. There are, in fact, two centers of the Catholic Church, okay? There's one that, uh, is in Rome, but there's also another in Avanon, um, because the Holy Roman Emperor has sponsored another church, okay? Uh, sorry, another pope. So the thing to know about the Catholic Church is that um, they are at war with each other. It's an internal civil war in the Catholic Church. There are different, different factions, and that's why Dante is able to do what he's do, because there's no central authority in place. They were too busy fighting each other, exactly. Okay? All right? All right. So thank you. Okay. All right. So we have a lot to do today, okay? So let, let's get started, okay? All right. Uh, so remember where we are, where, uh, um, Dante's being interrogated by Peter on what faith is."
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      "text": "And, um, Dante will first respond with Paul's formulation, which is that faith is evidence of things unseen, meaning that only faith can prove that certain things exist, like God. You cannot, through science, ever prove that God exists. Okay? But then what he will say, that's different from, uh, Paul, is that Paul is basically saying there are things that exist beyond our imagination, so let us be humble and obey God. That's what faith is. Faith is one of compliance, one of acceptance. And what Dante says is like, no. Everything comes from imagination. Faith is an act of imagination. Without the imagination, um, there could be no faith. Okay? It's because we willingly, proactively believe in something, does it come true? It is not true by itself. Okay? So this is a very important distinction that Dante will continue to elaborate on. Alright?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Uh, so let's continue."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Canto 24, verse 79. And then I heard, if all one learns below his doctrine were so understood, there would be no place for Sophist's cleverness. This speech was breathed from that enkindled love, he added. Now, this coin is well examined, and now we know its alloy and its weight. But tell me, do you have it in your purse? And I, indeed I do, so bright and round that nothing in its stamp leads me to doubt. Next, from the deep light gleaming there, I heard, what is the origin of the dear gem that comes to you? Okay, stop."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, alright. So, uh, um, this is a very interesting question, like, okay, if the um, Catholic Church is against money, why is Dante referring to faith as a coin? Right? It's a coin. What's going on here?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Maybe the indulgences that we're selling. Like, the indulgences you mentioned before, so."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Indulgences are evil, right? Yeah."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Indulgences are, like, against everything that Jesus taught. So that's why, like, faith is a coin, because you pay your way into, like, believing or doing good things, maybe."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Oh, no, no. Okay, anyone else?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yeah, I don't know. I just tried to guess. Maybe because coin is done for money, for fortune, because during the back to that period and church, they just try to ask people to pay the money to redeem their sins. So, maybe Dante just saying the coin is something that the, you know, the church would have, to make use of, try to let people to pay for it, so that they can redeem their sins, be good."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, why is it paradoxical to say that faith is a coin? Why is it paradoxical?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yes? Does it have anything to do with its two -sidedness?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, can you explain?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "I was just thinking, because the coin usually has two sides, and I'm not the most knowledgeable about historical or the religious content, but I was wondering if faith also is a two -sided thing, in a way."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, all right, why is, okay, let's go on this, okay? There's a paradox, right? Faith is a coin. Why is that a paradox? Yes? Then you? Well, a coin is something material, and faith is, like, just in the mind. Exactly, you understand, okay? Faith is air, it's nothing. Coin is material, but not only is it material, what is it? It's also heavy, you understand? If it's in your pocket, it's going to be the most heavy thing in your pocket. Right? So this metaphor, what it reveals is that faith is the heaviest thing in you. It is the thing that anchors you. Does that make sense? So the idea of the coin isn't that it's money, the idea of the coin is that it's a heavy valuable object inside of you. Did you have a comment or question?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "I just wanted to build off her comment, because I do think it's interesting, because we talk about, let's say, two sides of an argument, but it's a paradox because faith is one -sided."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, okay. Alright, yes?"
    },
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      "text": "So something that I find interesting is a paradox that is not only evident here in the divine colony, but also in the church as a whole. So nowadays our coins are made of, like, steel, made of metals that are not so precious, so they don't weight as much as this coin of faith presumably does. And they specifically ask Dante, like the pilgrim Dante, about the coin's alloy. And since it's heavy, even though it's only a coin, I think it's reasonable to assume that it might be made of gold."
    },
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      "text": "Well, after some history, yes, they are made of gold."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "What I'm saying is that gold is a very precious metal, and the church, while the church and Dante himself while simultaneously condemning wealth, they are holding this metaphorical gold coin in their pocket. Why can't they pick another metaphor?"
    },
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      "text": "We'll pick one, then."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Well, I'm thinking maybe they can say like milk and honey, the old metaphor."
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      "text": "Milk and honey? That's not... Yes?"
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      "text": "I think this coin is well examined. There's also a verse in the scripture that says that gold will go through fire, and faith is like the gold that can withstand the test of fire. I think maybe this is one of the reasons. Thank you. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Yes."
    },
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      "text": "That's right. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you for that. Yes. So that's why it's important to read the footnotes. Yes. Can we keep on reading, Carol?"
    },
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      "text": "Verse 90. What is the origin of the dear gem that comes to you, the gem on which all virtues are founded? I, the Holy Ghost's abundant rain poured upon the parchments old and new. That is the syllogism that has proved with such persuasiveness that faith has truth. When set beside that argument, all other demonstrations seem to me obtuse."
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      "text": "So, Peter asks him a question, which is like, faith is inside of you, but where does it come from? How do you have faith? What proves to you that God must exist? And what is his answer? But I'm saying, like, what in your life proves that the Holy Spirit must exist? What did he say?"
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      "text": "The Holy Ghost abounded rain. The Holy Ghost abounded rain?"
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      "text": "What's the rain doing? Yeah, you go ahead first. So, basically,"
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      "text": "saying that the Holy Ghost's abundant rain poured upon the parchments old and new, and here abundant rain is water, abundant rain is ink, and he is trying to say that the Holy Ghost has inspired so many writings on parchment old and new."
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      "text": "New and Old Testament."
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      "text": "Yes! You understand, the Bible. If God didn't exist, how could you have the Bible, which is this brilliant work of literature, right, who's given hope and inspiration to millions around the world? And it's persisted for thousands of years. So, the Bible itself is proof that God must exist. If you read the Bible, especially Genesis, it is beautiful. It's one of the greatest works of literature in history, right? And it is the Holy Ghost that infuses himself, right, like rain, it's a metaphor, throughout the Holy Bible. So, when the people who wrote the Bible, they were being possessed by the Holy Ghost. That is proof. Okay? Otherwise, you can't explain the Bible. Okay, keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "Verse 97, I heard the premises of old and new impelling your conclusion. Why do you hold these to be the speech of God?"
    },
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      "text": "Okay, so, it's like, how do you know it's truly the work of God, that these people are speaking for God? Keep on going."
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      "text": "And I, the proof revealing truth to me relies on acts that happened. For such miracles, nature can heat, no iron beat no anvil. Say, who assures you that those works were real? Came the reply. The very thing that needs proof, no thing else, attests these works to you. I said, if without miracles the world was turned to Christianity, that is so great a miracle that all the rest are not its hundredth part. For you were poor and hungry when you found the field and sowed the good plant. Once a vine and now a thorn. Okay,"
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      "text": "so, again, what's happening is that Peter continues to interrogate and said, how do you know for a fact that the Bible is the word of God? And what Donnan says is, well, in real life there's evidence. What's the evidence? Excuse me?"
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      "text": "The Bible. But how do you know the Bible is the work of God?"
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      "text": "Yes?"
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      "text": "He's basically saying all these physical things like parting the Red Sea and stuff actually happened. No, that's not what he's saying."
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      "text": "The fact that the whole world has turned to Christianity. Exactly."
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      "text": "Can you please explain to me how this happened? Two billion people in the world are Christians. Okay? Now, I don't insult Christians, but when I was growing up in Canada, everyone around me was a Christian, and people were telling me about how Jesus crucified himself on the cross. And how God came to redeem us from our sins. And I was like, this makes no logical sense, guys, okay? Do you even know what you're talking about? Okay? For, like, decades of my life, even when I was at Yale, which was founded as a Christian school, I had no idea what was going on. Okay? So, to me, it's a miracle that this very confusing religion is able to conquer the world, where you have two billion people believe in it. That is a miracle. And unless you believe that it is the divine plan of God, it's very hard to explain, okay? Also, guys, I get, I don't insult Christians, but Jesus, what did he do exactly?"
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      "text": "Right? I could understand if you, if there was a religion about Julius Caesar, or Genghis Khan, or Alexander the Great, these, or Napoleon, because they did a lot, right? I'm not sure what Jesus did. Jesus, I mean, he was crucified on the cross, and that's it. I mean, so, but, like, I'm not trying to, like, prove that Christianity is like, stupid, but I'm going to show, like, there's so many paradoxes in Christianity that unless you accept that God exists, and it's all part of the divine plan, it's hard to explain why there are two billion Christians in the world. Does that make sense, guys?"
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      "time_label": "35:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "And by the way, I want to add that I don't feel insulted as a Christian. Because I think the dialectics is also part of the journey."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right, right. Okay. Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I think this is, actually, super great. Like, I think Dante is being really smart here. Like, this is a really great argument of his, but I'm not sure what he is trying to prove here. Like, his audience, his audience are all people who speak, like, Italian, right? Audience are people who speak Italian, who speak Latin, who can read. And these people are going to be educated people in Europe. And these people are going to be Christian already. So why is he proving their own faith to them? Okay."
    },
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      "time_label": "36:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Let's appreciate what's going on, okay? In the year 1300, if you go to your priest and say to him, how do we know there's faith in the world? And how do you, how do we know that God exists? And how do we know the Bible is actually the word of God? What would he tell you?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "Maybe it's communicated."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, maybe the Satan has taken control of you, right? Maybe you're speaking for Satan. That's literally what they would say to you. Right? And what Donnie's saying is like, no, guys, let's not do that. Let's actually try to logically use our imagination, figure this out because we can do that. Right? You see the difference. It's night and day. You go to a priest and like, you ask a question, Satan is in you. Like, no, that's literally what would happen. Right? And now, and then my comment is like, no, of course you should ask a question. Let's try to figure this out naturally. Let's use our imagination. This is a revolution. It's a heresy. You take it for granted today, but I'm saying near 1300, okay? This is revolutionary. What's going on? And for this to happen in heaven, right? Not in a university, but in heaven. And it's Peter, the first pope. Right? Okay? So this is all very revolutionary."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_19",
      "text": "Yeah, so I'm still a little confused. If faith is belief without evidence and the Bible is evidence, then how does everything work?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so what Donnie is saying is this, okay? You have to make certain assumptions about the world for your imagination to take root, okay? For you to reason things out. If you're always like, let's prove God exists, or let's prove that God's intention, okay? If you just try to figure out these fundamental principles, you don't get anywhere. You can go back and forth, okay? But what I'm saying is, let's just assume these things to be true. Let's just have faith that these things are true, okay? Then from these things, you can start now to use your imagination to work towards the truth. Okay, does that make sense?"
    },
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      "time_label": "38:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Okay, yes? Because I know the Bible can divide it into two parts. The first part, Old Testament, and another, New Testament. So some people believe in God, some people believe in Jesus. So I feel a little confused. What about Dante? Do you think Dante just believed in Jesus or believed in God?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So, that's a good question, okay? So if you actually read the Bible, it's a complete mess, okay? It's written by like, I don't know, like, a hundred different people. There are many contradictions. And so, what Dante is saying is like, don't read the Bible literally, guys, okay? Just read the Bible and see it as a portal into the mind of God. And what allows you to enter this portal is your imagination. Uh, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Well, at the time, most people didn't even read the Bible. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because of the, it wasn't Latin, so like, that was at this time, like, it wasn't translated yet. Exactly, thank you, yes, okay?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "39:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Um, at this time in history, it would, uh, be an act of sin to read the Bible by yourself, okay? Because that would only confuse you because Satan could come into your ear and say, oh, you see, blah, blah, blah, okay? So that's why, um, you weren't allowed to read the Bible. So, so, so you're absolutely right. At this time, they didn't really, um, look at the contradictions in the Bible, uh, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "40:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Um, so Dante here, uh, Dante here, he is saying a lot of things. He is saying, first, he is comparing faith to a coin. Second, he's using St. Peter to criticize the church that he kind of founded. And third, he, uh, third, he is saying, don't read the Bible too literally. So when all these three things come together, they remind me a lot of Protestantism. So is, is, uh, Dante influenced by, uh, various heretical movements or has he inspired these movements? Or is it both?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, we'll never know, but my argument in this class is that he inspired everything, okay? Not just the Protestant Reformation, but also the time of revolution, the Renaissance, enlightenment, modernity itself, okay? So, so, so, I mean, guys, I, this is great, but let's keep on moving on, okay? Okay, and go."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Um, line 112. Yes. This done, the high and holy chord resounded throughout its features, with te deum laudamus, sung with the melody they use on high. Then he who had examined me, that baron who led me on from branch to branch, so that we now were drawing close to the last leaves, began again. That grace which lovingly directs your mind until this point has taught you how to find the seemly words for thought, so that I do approve what you brought forth, but now you must declare what you believe and what gave you the faith that you receive. Oh, holy Father, so who now can see what you believed with such intensity that to his tomb you outran younger feet. I then began, you would have me tell plainly the form of my unhesitating faith, and also ask me to declare its source. I answer, I believe in one God, soul eternal, he who motionless moves all the heavens with his love and love for him."
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      "start": 2525.34,
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      "time_label": "42:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "For this belief, i have not only proofs both physical and metaphysical i also have the truth that here rains down through moses and the prophets and the psalms and through the gospels and through you who"
    },
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      "time_label": "42:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "wrote words given to you by the holy ghost so here peter is asking donnie to declare his faith what do you believe about god okay and what donnie says like i believe that god is love why is this a problem this is what he's been saying throughout the divine covenant right god is love why would"
    },
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      "time_label": "42:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "this be a problem yes um to me i think he's making no no not to you i'm saying historically why would this be a problem i'm saying he's assuming about the nature of god god has frequently been shown to be not that loving for example the uh the ark and noah no no no no i'm"
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      "time_label": "42:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "saying for the catholic church why is this heresy to say god is love it's heresy why the catholic church hates some people and no no yes well for the catholic church jesus is god no no no"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
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      "start": 2593.52,
      "end": 2597.5,
      "time_label": "43:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "To me it's like the catholic church is like the father figure who punishes you if you do bad things"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "um no like like what is the official definition of god at this time in history by the catholic church no no no no what is god like like like have you guys not trinity yeah it's a trinity do you understand okay this is heresy you can't say god is love if they say like god is the father the holy spirit you can't say god is love if they say god is the father the holy spirit you can't say Spirit and Jesus, they are separate and equal and one, okay? That is what you must say. It's called the Nicene Creed, do you understand? To diverge from the Nicene Creed is heresy, okay? Can we drop the Nicene Creed, okay? You're not allowed to make adjustments to it. You're not allowed to question it. You must recite it, okay? So at this, when Peter asked him, what do you believe? He should recite the Nicene Creed. He didn't do that."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 2652.08,
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      "time_label": "44:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "He said, God is love. This is heresy, okay?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 2656.3,
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      "time_label": "44:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "Just, and I mean, yes? So the contention is on uno dio, one God, that's the, that's what's heretical to the Catholic. No, no, no, no, he's saying God is love. God is love. Right? You can't do that. Not one God versus."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "44:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, okay, okay. Let's read the Nicene Creed, okay? This is like, this is what all Catholics must believe. Not one word can be different, yes? I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, making all things perfect."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "start": 2683.11,
      "end": 2722.23,
      "time_label": "44:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, making all things perfect. Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages, God from God, light from light, true God from true God. Begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father. Through him, all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate the version Mary and became man. For our sake, he was crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0103",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=2722s",
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      "start": 2722.23,
      "end": 2742.33,
      "time_label": "45:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic church. I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 2742.33,
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      "time_label": "45:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So yeah, this is the modern version, okay? Sorry. Yeah, don't worry about it. It's like the old version is the Trinity, okay? So this is a problem. Donnie got this wrong. But then what he does is he makes a subtle adjustment, okay? Can you continue?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=2764s",
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      "start": 2764.23,
      "end": 2790.95,
      "time_label": "46:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 139. And I believe in three eternal persons, and these I do believe to be one essence, so single and threefold as to allow both is and are. Of this profound condition of God that I have touched on, gospel teaching has often set the imprint on my mind. This is the origin, this is the spark, and then it extends into a vivid flame, and like a star in heaven, glows in me."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 2791.19,
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      "time_label": "46:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so now what Donnie's like, oh, you know what? It's the Holy Trinity, okay? So this is a paradox. God is love, but I also believe in the Holy Trinity, okay? And this is why Donnie is such a genius, because... given this impossible situation, like you must declare faith in the Holy Trinity, he figures out a way to get out of it and say that God is love, okay? So I'm gonna go over the Holy Trinity. It's very important, all right? So at this time in history, so not this time in history, but in the early Christianity, there was a huge debate as to the nature of Jesus, okay? So the spectrum was that Jesus was a man, and then there was those who believed that Jesus was a God, okay? Peer God. He's either peer man or peer God. These were the two extremes. And ultimately, the church settled on in between."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "start": 2851.12,
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      "time_label": "47:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "It was both man and God. And then the next debate is, what is the relationship between Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God? Because all three appear in the Bible, right? So are they separate, or are they one? And in this time, there are many different theories to explain what's going on, okay? And there are three really popular theories that made sense, okay? So let's go over these three theories. The first is the idea of modulism. What does this mean? It means, like, God can take different forms, right? God can be Jesus. God can be the Holy Spirit. God can be God. Depends where he is. Depends on what he wants to do. He takes different forms, okay? Makes sense, right? Then you have the idea of partialism. Partialism is that, like, in an ocean, you have different seas, right? Well, God is the unity of God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=2911s",
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      "start": 2911.96,
      "end": 2991.48,
      "time_label": "48:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And so they just split off and do their own thing now and then, okay? Partialism also makes sense. And then you had something called Arianism. And Arian was a Christian theologian, and he argued that Jesus is a lower God, okay? God created the universe, and then God created Jesus. And it's okay to worship Jesus because Jesus is the one who died for our sins, okay? So all three make sense, and all three were rejected by the church, okay? In favor of the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity states that, okay? Okay, all right. States, and this is really important, guys, that God, um, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are separate, but the same. And you're like, okay, I understood modulism. I understood partialism. I understood Arianism. I don't understand the Holy Trinity. It makes no logical sense. So here's the question. Why would the Catholic Church insist the Holy Trinity to be the official doctrine?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "start": 2991.88,
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      "time_label": "49:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "In fact, they created something called the Nicene Creed to enforce this on every sin. So the Catholic Church is a venue where every single Christian, if you did not obey, they would come and kill you. Okay, that's literally what happened. So, so what, why? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
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      "start": 3006.69,
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      "time_label": "50:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Because they wanted to be special and to prosecute people."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 3010.62,
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      "time_label": "50:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. What's the logic?"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 3014.36,
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      "time_label": "50:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "Um, because the entire Scripture concluded or leads to this conclusion, which, it's hard to explain, like logically, but it kind of, if this doesn't, like if the Holy Trinity is not true, then the Holy Trinity will be wrong. whole bible like description of god cannot um yeah okay all right all right so so the word is"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "50:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "mystery okay okay the holy truth does is create the idea of mystery which is like god is not knowable you must use faith to accept god you understand that's the reason the idea of mystery"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "50:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "uh yes it's a litmus test right with the mystery it's a litmus test are you in my group yes okay"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "time_label": "50:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "it's a test of faith do you understand okay the nice thing create something that you cannot logically explain the holy truth is something that you cannot figure out mentally okay it makes no sense but you must accept it okay it creates faith it creates mystery and mystery is the foundation of the catholic church right that's why there has to be a catholic church because otherwise you can just do you can just figure out the bible by yourself you just go talk to god by yourself but because of mystery god uh the catholic church must be the shepherd to lead the flock to god does it make sense that's why the holy trinity is crucial um but for dante he's not happy about this right okay why is he not happy because as a humanist as someone who believes in human in the human imagination he's okay with modelism partialism and erinism not only because it's"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "something that we can all understand but it's also a story and we can all partake in right you can meet jesus and talk to jesus in modelism partialism and erinism but guess what guys in no situation can you write a story where you meet the holy trinity right you are denied access to god does it make sense to you okay try try it try to write a story where where you meet the holy trinity you get nowhere okay all right okay so how does dante resolve this contradiction he says that god is love and he believes in the holy trinity"
    },
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      "time_label": "52:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "and this is what makes him genius yes he's like both is and are so he kind of admits it in his verse uh one four two i i okay okay let's say one three nine and one one four okay"
    },
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      "text": "i believe in three eternal persons the holy trinity and these i believe to be of one to be one essence what is one essence love love to understand okay he's like listen we can reduce even further right god is love jesus is love holy spirit is love god is love okay this is why dante is such a genius because he takes an impossible situation right the holy trinity it's meant to create mystery and he solves the mystery for you the essence of everything is love"
    },
    {
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      "text": "yes so what is dante's stance on ineffability as in the idea that you cannot predict or you cannot control you cannot control the truth you cannot control the truth you cannot control the truth you cannot predict what god will do you cannot predict god's nature what is his stance on this"
    },
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      "text": "no no no no he's clearly against this right he clearly believes that you have direct connection to god that's where your intuition and imagination come from right all right okay it doesn't make sense you guys what he's doing here okay this is heresy like if they actually understood the catholic church actually understood what dante was doing they would burn up the stake but he uses their language he makes subtle changes okay you understand okay uh yes so by defining god as love is he setting certain guidelines and"
    },
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      "text": "constraints for god's behavior and motives and personality um what he's saying is that god is"
    },
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      "time_label": "54:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "perfect and so god loves you unconditionally there's nothing you can do to anger him there's nothing you can do to um make him hate you he will love you forever"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "okay yeah yes i just have one question um about like why did them if partisanism is like from directed from dante then why did they also take in the holy spirit as like because like partisans still believe in the holy spirit right so why did they still even though dante's like just says god is love why why why do they still believe in the holy spirit um um"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "so this is a really complicated question but process really is a rebellion of local princes against authority of catholic church okay do you understand the the idea of the holy trinity is useful in that it creates obedience to authority because because of mystery right so the process was not people trying to um promote dante uh process was basically a fracturing of um the geopolitical situation in europe okay does that make sense but they were still inspired by dante you see um it's but they didn't know they were inspired by dante okay right influence is something you don't really see uh you you can you can logically uh yes did you have a protestantism"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "56:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "is more like a rebellion against like the political institution of the catholic church it's not about like the theology of the catholic church or some part of the theology but the trinity part is intact so it like uh martin luther was okay with trinity right so so posthum the idea behind posthum okay there's"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "like 10 000 different groups right but the idea is you have a direct connection to god for the bible that's the main idea whereas how the church is like no you have to go through us you can't read the bible by yourself because satan is in you he'll he'll just screw you up okay all right uh"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3405.75,
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      "time_label": "56:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "yes so i was wondering uh if dante just tried to open a new channel to other people because people do not need to just buy bible but come by love because love if love is jesus it's god and maybe people they all have love so love can be another channel not only the bible um love is what allows you to connect"
    },
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      "time_label": "57:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "directly to to god uh peter um we have uh comments online so uh the interesting part of about the concept of god is that if all things come from god and nothing exists but through the"
    },
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      "time_label": "57:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "father then god is both love and hate simultaneously and that's an interesting comment okay so um okay so the conception of god is that god is both eternal and infinite okay does that make sense so god is a source of everything and god encompasses everything okay so god is both um becoming and the source both being and becoming coming okay so everything is encompassed in god and what this is important for us is that this is also a paradox right how are you both being and becoming and the the way we resolve this paradox is to is to say that humans are part of the of god itself right because humans are the ones who are becoming god is the being and humans are within god which allows for this process to happen do you understand humans represent infinity god represents eternity but god wouldn't help us both humans as well okay all right yes"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3510.89,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "i think uh my simple vibration of this"
    },
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      "time_label": "58:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "is that if god loves us so much why did he create hate in the first place yes so i heard i don't"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "58:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "know if the source is true but einstein used to answer this question that heat is a thing that physically fire is a thing that exists but cold is not it's the lack of heat so god is the fire or the light just goes back to chapter one that you know he's light but the lack of him is darkness but darkness is not a substantial thing right like his particle is right but darkness is not and so hate is the absence of love but it's not a thing that exists by its own so okay all right so so so let's continue okay but"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "59:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "but this ends this will be answered to you later on okay because we will eventually move to a place closer to god where the angels are the angels are incapable of hatred they're incapable of turning away from god and the angels are perfect and when we get to that section you will understand why hate is necessary okay all right so so let's continue all right"
    },
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      "time_label": "59:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "continue please verse 148 just as the lord who listens to his servants announcements then as soon as he's silent embraces him both glad with the good news so that the apostolic light at whose command i had replied while blessing me and singing then encircled me three times the speech i spoke had brought him such delight okay so you understand"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "59:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay so he's passed the first test what is faith he's answered faith now the second test is hope and this will be asked by um james okay the apostle okay so let's go to 25 please"
    },
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      "start": 3609.05,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "canto 25 if it should happen if this sacred poem this work so shared by heaven and by earth that it has made me lean through these long years can never overcome the cruelty that bars me from the fair fold where i slept a lamb opposed to wolves that wore on it by then with other voice with other fleece i shall return as poet as put and put on and my baptismal font the laurel crown"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay all right so again we have to remember the image of dante alone in exile in isolation random and comedy and what his hope is is to return to florence one day right and then have the florentines crown him as the greatest poet ever it will it won't happen but that is his hope that is his arrogance okay um and in his heart he knows it is going to happen but he's trying to tell us that that is his great hope all right and it will happen eventually yes yeah well you've been to"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 3683.25,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "florence so so so tell us dante and florence like i mean yeah afterwards he was like they built a statue for him and they and they accepted him as like an honorary man or like a like the most"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "important man from florence or something this is the idea of manifestation right where you have absolutely no evidence this is going to be true but you visualize it so much and god will hear your your prayer so i mean after he died first of all he was not allowed to be buried within florence with his ancestors and um he um and they'll see even people who wanted to like dig him up and burn the state okay yes this is my"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "time_label": "1:02:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "question like if he wanted if he visualized if he tried to materialize this uh wonderful future for himself returning to florence's poet laureate then why didn't god grant it to him like if there's a"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 3738.17,
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      "time_label": "1:02:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "will there's a way right but god did go to florence man go to florence he's buried beside michael angelo when he was alive i mean why does god have to grant you this thing when you're alive what what your body your soul where's tony today tony is staring at us from where he is and smiling at what we're doing right there's not i mean who cares if during his lifetime he didn't get the reward he if you go to florence he is god i would just like to add to that so i think that when we're"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=3774s",
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      "start": 3774.74,
      "end": 3808.7,
      "time_label": "1:02:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "reading like the previous contos i think we did touch upon a point that like god will hear what you want but like it might not always manifest like the way you want it to be but it's going to like return to you in in like you know a special way so i think that even though dante wasn't able to physically go back while he was alive like you know um his reputation and you know his aspirations to be crowned as the greatest poet did happen so that is also a kind of like manuscript and also like you know you're moses"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:03:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "and you've led the your people for 40 years across the desert you freed them from the pharaoh and then you go to jerusalem become you they call you king would they remember you like they remember you today would you be the greatest prophet in jewish history would you be uh moses of today probably not right if you were jesus and you were put on trial by the pharisees and the pharisees like oops we'll let you go and we won't crucify you prophets have to be persecuted all right i'm sorry if you don't like that okay don't be a prophet then but prophets have to be persecuted and that's what donna is saying i will be persecuted this is my hope i know i'll be persecuted and i accept it because it is god's will and it is god's love for me okay so i'm really confused as to what he is"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "start": 3863.55,
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      "time_label": "1:04:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "encouraging here so so he is saying that oh okay i am prosecuted when i'm alive but i will get rewards when i die and he's also saying okay you guys prosecute me while i'm alive so you guys will burn in hell once you die so what he is saying is that he is delaying the consequences of these horrible actions or what happened to him to the afterlife so that he wouldn't have to act on him he wouldn't"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3884.95,
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      "time_label": "1:04:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "have to act against him while he is alive okay what he's saying okay it's very clear okay do not on rewards do not think of the end result just act with faith love and hope just do that okay don't worry about anything else you can have these dreams god may or may not grant you your dreams it doesn't matter what matters is you live a life of faith hope and love and that is the most meaningful purposeful and happy life you could possibly live okay do not ever try to say if i do this then i will you know get in a yale and be a lawyer and be a millionaire and i'm like lms okay that gets you nowhere"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:05:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "yes well but he did say that he he did think of the like the end because he said you know he he shall return as a poet that is his hope but he has absolutely no evidence that this is gonna work"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3952.74,
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      "time_label": "1:05:52",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "out yeah but he yeah right okay so so so you're right in that you know like it is believed that if you truly live a life of faith hope and love things will work out okay and the greater your commitment to faith love and hope the more likely god is to reward you but just not in this world maybe not in this world yeah all right and and that and that's just"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3975.47,
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      "time_label": "1:06:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "that's just unfortunate all right yes it seems like a really passive way to add for me like"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3981.81,
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      "time_label": "1:06:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_11",
      "text": "somehow is that this is passive yes this is passive to live every life to live every single day to live every single moment with with faith love and yes yes that's passive you keep saying"
    },
    {
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      "start": 3994.85,
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      "time_label": "1:06:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "these words but these words do not get you to your goal you can live with faith love and hope and hope then that is great for your spiritual health however it will not get you back into florence"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4003.91,
      "end": 4009.59,
      "time_label": "1:06:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "the guy is working his ass off every single day and he's working not towards getting himself back"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4009.59,
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      "time_label": "1:06:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "into florence he's working towards his faith hope and love right and that's what he should be doing okay then i guess he's made peace with the fact that he's not in florence okay"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:07:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "well he's definitely made peace because he's within the vine property okay"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:07:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "uh yes i i also feel confused because if the face hope love is what dancing believe in so it's a big contradictory because daniel said you don't need to be rewarded but actually if you really believe in love uh believe in god the god will reward you with the face hope of love then this"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4041.63,
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      "time_label": "1:07:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "is reward so you know what i mean right right but but but we're trying to distinguish between material reward and spiritual reward okay which is what something you can see something you can touch spiritual reward something that you have you have to have faith in oh yeah okay all right"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "okay let's let's let's continue verse 10 for there i first found entry to that faith which makes souls welcome unto god and then for that faith peter garlanded my brow then did a light move toward us from that sphere from which emerged the first the dear the rare of those whom christ had left to be his bickers and full of happiness my lady said to me look look and see the barren home below on earth they visit in galicia as when a dove alights near its companion and each unto the other murmuring and circling offers its affection so did i see both those great and glorious princes give greeting to each other praising the banquet that is offered them on high but when they're sad but when their salutations were complete each stopped in silence coramay and each was so aflame my vision felt defeat then beatrice said smiling famous life by whom the generosity"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0157",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=4121s",
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      "start": 4121.62,
      "end": 4171.6,
      "time_label": "1:08:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "of our basilica has been described i shall pray upon thee for lest ye worship the most提le of the earth and let the whole world hear thy serene voice and let matters of hope re -echo at this height you can for every time that jesus favored you three above the rest you are the figure of hope lift up your ahead and be assured whatever comes here from the mortal world has to be ripened in our radiance the second fire offered me this comfort at which my eyes were lifted to the mountains whose weight of light before had kept me bent because our emperor out of his grace has willed to be� that you before your death may face his nobles in the inmost of his halls so that when you have seen this court in truth hope which below spurs love of the true good and you and others may be comforted do tell what hope"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0158",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=4171s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0158",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0158",
      "start": 4171.6,
      "end": 4176.16,
      "time_label": "1:09:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "is tell how it has blossomed within your mind and from what source"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0159",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=4176s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0159",
      "start": 4176.16,
      "end": 4235.93,
      "time_label": "1:09:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "it came to you okay okay stop okay all right so this is james and he's going to interrogate dante right and what the first thing i thought that james says to dante is you're special you were picked by god to come to heaven before your death and you have a body okay so you're still a human you're not a spirit so you've been picked out all right so i'm gonna ask you three questions now tell me what is hope then tell me uh what is your hope and then the third thing is where does come from okay so these are three questions that dante is being asked by james and then something weird happens okay this is a test for dante but what's gonna happen now is that beatrice is gonna come in intervene and answer the second question what is your hope okay this is a paradox okay let's continue to read so did"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0160",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=4235s",
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      "start": 4235.93,
      "end": 4275.63,
      "time_label": "1:10:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "the second flame continue verse 49 and she compassionate who was the guide who led my feathered wings to such high flight did thus anticipate my own reply there's no child of the church militant who has more hope than he has as is written within the sun whose rays reach all our ranks thus it is granted him to come from egypt into jerusalem that he have vision of it before his term of warring ends the other two points of your question which were not asked so that you may know but that he may report how much you prize this virtue i leave to him okay stop okay all right okay this is just the arrogance"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0161",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=4275s",
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      "start": 4275.91,
      "end": 4357.75,
      "time_label": "1:11:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "of dante okay beatrice comes in and tells um james in the entire heavens and beatrice is perfect right so i think she says must be true she says there is no greater christian than dante okay there is no greater christian than dante and he like moses has journeyed from egypt into jerusalem he came from exile into the promised land and what is his hope his hope is to of course write the divine comedy it doesn't make sense guys okay the divine comedy is something that is sanctioned by god by the heavens and he has been brought into heaven so that he may find inspiration and the truth to write the divine comedy this is pure arrogance right and this is what allows him to finish the divine comedy before he dies this is what allows him to for the next few contours write the most spectacular poetry ever in human history okay this is shocking"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=4357s",
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      "start": 4357.75,
      "end": 4359.43,
      "time_label": "1:12:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "what he will do keep on going"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=4359s",
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      "start": 4359.43,
      "end": 4392,
      "time_label": "1:12:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "verse 59 to 60 but that he may report how much you prize this virtue i leave to him he will not find them hard or cause for arrogance as you have asked let him reply and god's grace help his task as a disciple answering his master prepared and willing in what he knows well that his proficiency may be revealed i said hope is the certain expectation of future glory it is the result of god's grace and of merit we have earned"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4392,
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      "time_label": "1:13:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay stop why would this be heretical this idea of hope hope is the expectation of future glory it is a result of god's grace and of merit we have earned what would this at this time in history be controversial certainly not controversial to us"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
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      "start": 4409.33,
      "end": 4441.24,
      "time_label": "1:13:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "but it was controversial back then why yes well because um hope couldn't really exist or like because just the catholic church was the one who issued who went to heaven or not and they did that by how good of the work you did and so there wasn't i mean i guess there was some hope but like you didn't have any like sayings exactly okay that your merit doesn't matter it's god's grace"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4441.24,
      "end": 4476.6,
      "time_label": "1:14:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "that matters that's why humility is important right be humble before god because whatever you do doesn't matter it's god's grace that matters right and now what donnie is saying no it's like merit does matter okay so it's an act of arrogance be arrogant don't be humble and again it is very subtle but that's what he's saying here if you choose to be humble don't be humble don't be humble If you truly want to ascend to heaven, if you truly want to achieve what you want, you need God's grace, but you also need to have talent. You also need to have to work hard. Okay? All right. Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "start": 4479.56,
      "end": 4488.65,
      "time_label": "1:14:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 70. This light has come to me from many stars, but he who first instilled it in my heart was the chief singer of the sovereign guide."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 4488.85,
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      "time_label": "1:14:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "You guys know who the chief singer of the sovereign guide is? King David, right? Okay? King David. And why is King David so important in the Bible? Do you guys know the old Bible? What? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 4506.43,
      "end": 4508.55,
      "time_label": "1:15:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "Because he was the man after God's own heart."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 4508.91,
      "end": 4522.23,
      "time_label": "1:15:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Exactly. He is the person that God loves the most. There is no other person that God loves as much as David. Okay? It's explicit in the Bible. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0171",
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      "start": 4524.32,
      "end": 4579.2,
      "time_label": "1:15:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "73. May those he says, within his deity, who know your name, put hope in you, and if one has my faith, can he not know God's name? And just as he instilled, you then instilled with your epistle, so that I am full and reign again your reign on other souls. While I was speaking, in the living heart of that soul flame, there came a trembling flash, sudden, repeated, just as lightning cracks. Then it breathed forth, the love with which I still burn for the virtue that was mine until, the palm and my departure from the field, would have me breathe again to you, who take such joy and hope. And I should welcome words that tell what hope has promised unto me, unto you. And I, the new and ancient scripture, set the mark for souls whom God befriends. For me, that mark means what is promised us by hope. Isaiah says that all of"
    },
    {
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      "start": 4579.2,
      "end": 4613.39,
      "time_label": "1:16:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "the elect shall wear a double garment in their land, and their land is the sweet life of the blessed. And where your brother, your mother treats of those white robes, he has, with words direct and evident, made clear to us Isaiah's revelation. At first, as soon as I had finished speaking, sperant in te was heard above us, all the circling garlands answering at this call. And then, among those souls, one light became so bright, that if the crab had one such crystal, winter would have a month of one long day."
    },
    {
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      "start": 4613.57,
      "end": 4623.31,
      "time_label": "1:16:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so Isaiah is a prophet, who was persecuted, and what Isaiah says is that all prophets will be persecuted. Okay? All right, I keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 4628.63,
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      "time_label": "1:17:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 103. And as a happy maiden rises and enters the dance to honor the new bride, and not through vanity or other failing, so did I see that splendor brightening approach those two flames dancing in a ring to music suited to their burning love. And there it joined the singing and the circling, on which my lady kept her eyes intent, just like a bride, silent and motionless. This soul is he who lay upon the breast of Christ our pelican, and he was asked from on the cross to serve in the great task. So spoke my lady, but her gaze was not to be diverted from its steadfastness, not after or before her words were said, even as he who squints and strains to see the sun somewhat eclipsed, and, as he tries to see, becomes sightless, just so did I in my attempt to watch the latest flame, until these words were said, Why do you daze yourself to see what here can have no place?"
    },
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      "text": "So again, Beatrice intervenes on Dante's behalf and says, This soul, Dante, he has been asked from the cross to serve in the great task. Okay? So not only is Dante being compared to Moses, Jesus, Jesus, Moses, and David, he's also being compared to Jesus, okay? This is his pure arrogance on his part. But it's, again, his arrogance that will drive him to greatness. Keep on going."
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      "text": "Verse 124. On earth my body now is earth, and shall be together with the rest until our number equals the eternal purpose. Only those two lights that ascended wear their double garment in this blessed cloister, and carry this report back to your world."
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      "text": "Okay. All right. So the reference is this. James, there's a theory among theologians that James was able to ascend to heaven in his body. Okay? And what James is saying is like, no, that's incorrect. Only two individuals in history have been able to ascend to heaven with their bodies, and that is Jesus and Mary. Can someone tell me what the idea here is? Why is it important to be able to ascend to heaven with your body? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "To ascend to heaven with your body means that you're not quite dead by the time you ascend to heaven. It also means that you're so good that all the base things in your body, like your base desires, your base matter, can be elevated and can be brought into heaven as it is."
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      "text": "Right. Okay. And also Judgment Day, right?"
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      "text": "Yeah."
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      "text": "On Judgment Day, our bodies will return to us, okay? All right. So in other words, they've already been judged and they've been, okay? Again, this is such an arrogant statement. Why is this arrogant? Dante is also able to ascend to heaven in his body. Okay? Right? Think about the arrogance of this. Only James is like, I'm not even worthy of ascending to heaven with my body, but Dante is. Okay? All right. Just pure arrogance. Keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 130. When he began to speak, the flaming circle had stopped its dance. So, too, its song had ceased, that gentle mingling of their threefold breath, even as when, avoiding danger or simply to rest, the oars that strike the water together halt when rowers hear a whistle. Ah, how disturbed I was within my mind when I turned around to look at Beatrice, unfinding that I could not see. Though I was close to her and in the world of gladness."
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      "text": "Okay, okay. So again, this idea of hope. And so what most people believe is that we as humans should strive to be egoless. Right? To feed our ego and learn humility. And that's what will allow for the grace of God. What Dante is saying is, no. What we must do is turn our ego. For good. To be. To be arrogant in a way as to believe that we can change the world for the better. And we can make it happen. Okay? Do you see the difference? This is arrogant. But it is a selfless arrogance driven by the ego. All right? All right."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "Let's move on. Yes? Do you think this kind of mindset is also in those big taxi rides? Tech CEOs and politicians' minds that they actually are doing something that they turn their ego into some big selfless act that change the world for the better?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right."
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      "text": "You're absolutely right."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "You know, because everyone believes this. Right? So what's the difference between them and Dante? Okay. Well, the answer is faith, hope, and love."
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      "text": "Right? So you mean those politicians, tech CEOs, they don't have these? Faith, hope, and love? Or why are they doing evil things?"
    },
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      "text": "I think Dante is coming from a very spiritual perspective, just like Confucius or Buddha is. So he's like, I don't want worldly, earthly reward or fame or anything. Well, maybe a bit of fame later on after he died. But like most of it, it's like spiritual accomplishments. But for our politicians or entrepreneurs, they still get stock market shares as a return. So it's a bit different."
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      "text": "Okay. So the major difference between them and Dante is that they don't have these. So the major difference is, are you turning towards God or are you turning away from God? Okay. And the key variable is love. And what is love? Love is your connection to others, right? So are you making others more capable of love or are you taking away people's capacity to love? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I have like an unrelated question, but like in the last sentence, the word gladness, I think that it actually appears in many contos, but we haven't really delved into like the Dante's definition of this. Happiness. Just pure happiness? Or is it like fulfillment?"
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      "text": "Happiness is your connection to God."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Okay."
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      "text": "Right. The closer your connection to God, the more glad you are."
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      "text": "But does it also have like maybe fulfillment or serenity like in the word? Okay."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "All right. So this is a really good question. Okay. So gladness is happiness. Happiness comes from your connection to God. And what's really important, okay, and this ties back to your question is the more you're able to help others connect to God, the more happiness is created in this world. Do you understand? So your mission is to be able to help others connect to God. That's why the divine comedy is a selfless act because by reading divine comedy, it helps us better connect to God, right? And that's why artificial intelligence is evil. It's like disrupting our connection to God and focusing our attention to the material, right? It is making us helpless, right? It's like AI knows more than you to just believe AI, yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "So I don't really get it. So like you said that happiness is our connection to God and that to strengthen our connection to God, we have to create as much happiness as possible in others. So if we are creating this happiness in others, like Dante is. And we're sacrificing ourselves in this life and we're not happy, then is our connection to God really faint because we're not happy?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes."
    },
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      "text": "Your connection to God is not measured by your happiness, it's by your faith or your devotion to God."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "That's right."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "And most of the time, it can, like if you are really connected to God and doing things for him, he'll give you this internal satisfaction or happiness because you feel like you're in the right path or the right way."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right. Again, like stop focusing on the reward. Right. And focus more on the process. Right. How should you live your day? And the answer is live every single day with faith, hope, and love. Okay. Faith is imagination. Right. Use your brain. Use your imagination. Visualize things. Hope is arrogance. Believe you matter. Believe you can change the world and visualize a better world. And then love is your connection to others. Act as to help others. Be kind. Be generous. Okay. All right. Let's continue. This is 26, right?"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:26:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Candle 26. While I with blinded eyes was apprehensive from that bright flame which had consumed my vision, there breathed a voice that centered my attention, saying, until you have retrieved the power of sight which you consumed in me, it would be best to compensate by colloquy. Then do begin, declare the aim on which your soul is set, and be assured of this. Your vision, though confounded, is not dead. Because the woman who conducts you through this godly region has within her gaze that force the hand of Ananias had."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. Okay. So this is a really important idea where heaven is so bright that Darnay is being slowly blinded. Right? And if you're being blinded, how can you now see? Your eyes don't really work, so how can you see now? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "Imagination."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Exactly. Okay. So now you're forced to use your imagination. Okay? You're forced to see with your third eye. Okay. Let's keep on going. Did you have a question?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "I'm saying that it's also like, I think it's really funny because it's actually also a physical manifestation of blind faith, but I think in the context of Dante is more about, it's like one of these team exercises where they put a blindfold over your head and then push you backwards and you have to expect not to fall. It's like a trust exercise."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "Yeah."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "No, I think this is like a reference to when Moses went to the mount to get the tabernacle. He was blinded by the sight of God and couldn't see so that God gave him like rocks, the 10 commandments written in stone. And so I think this is like a reference to all the previous prophets."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:28:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Oh, yeah, yeah. No, you're right. Yes. Okay. Yes. Keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "Verse 13. I said, as pleases her, may solace sooner or later reach these eyes, her gates when she brought me the fire with which I obeyed. She always burned the good with which this court is satisfied as Alpha and Omega of all writings that love has loud or low read out to me. It was a very voice that had dispelled the fear I felt at sudden dazzlement that now with further words made me concerned to speak again. He said, you certainly must sit with a still finer sieve, must tell who led your bow to aim at such a target. And I. By philosophic arguments and by authority whose sources here that love must be imprinted in me for the good. Once it is understood as such and kindles love and in accord with more goodness comes greater love. And thus the mind of anyone who can discern the truth on which this proof is founded must be moved to love more than it loves all else."
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      "text": "That essence which is preeminent since any good that lies outside of it is nothing but a ray reflecting. It is a ray reflected from its radiance. My mind discerns this truth made plain by him who demonstrates to me that the first love of the eternal beings is their maker. The voice of the true author states this too where he tells Moses speaking of himself. I shall show you all goodness. You reveal this too when you begin your high evangel which more than any other proclamation cries out to earth the mystery of heaven."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So this is a summarization of what we've learned right. God is love. God implanted himself in us. So we are all love. We aspire to return to love. And you do that by loving others. Okay. Does that make sense? All right. Keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "Verse 46. I heard through human reasoning and through authorities according with it you conclude your highest love is bent on God. But tell me too if you feel other chords draw you toward him. So that your voice your voice allowed all of the teeth by which this love grips you. The holy intent of Christ's eagle was not hidden. I indeed was made aware of what he would most have my words declare. Thus I began again. My charity results from all those things whose bite can bring the heart to turn to God. The world's existence and mine. The death that he sustained that I might live and that which is the hope of all believers as it is my hope together with living knowledge I have spoken of. These drew me from the sea of twisted love and set me on the shore of the right love. Beliefs and leaving all the garden of the everlasting gardener I love according to the good he gave to them."
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      "text": "As soon as I was still a song most sweet resounded through that heaven and my lady said with the others holy holy holy."
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      "text": "Okay. So the idea is that love is an action. Okay. It is an act of openness generosity to others. And when you do that you turn the universe towards God. And you bring more happiness you bring more love in the world. Okay. And while she's saying this the entire heavens are shouting holy holy holy. Okay. Keep on going."
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      "text": "Verse 70. And just as a sharp light will startle us from sleep because the spirit of eyesight raises to meet the brightness that proceeds from layer to layer in the eye. And he who awakens is confused by what he sees. Awaking suddenly and knows no thing until his judgment helps him. Even so did Beatrice dispel with her eyes raised which show more than a thousand miles the chaff from my eyes. I saw better than I had before. And as is stupefied I asked about the fourth light that I saw among us. My lady answered. In those rays there gazes with love for his creator the first soul ever created by the primal force. As does a tree that bends its crown because of winds that gust and then springs up raised by its own sustaining power. So did I while she was speaking. I bewildered then restored to confidence by that desire to speak with which I was inflamed began."
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      "text": "Oh fruit that was the only one to be brought forth already ripe. Oh ancient father to him. Each bride is as a daughter and daughter -in -law devoutly as I can. I do beseech you speak with me. You can see my wish to hear you sooner. I do not declare it and the primal soul much as an animal beneath a cover stirs so that its feelings are made evident when what unfolds it follows all its movements showed me through that which covered him with what rejoicing rejoicing he was coming to delight me. Then he breathed forth though you did not declare your wish I can perceive it better than you can perceive the things you hold most certain for I can see it in the truthful mirror that perfectly reflects all else while no thing can reflect that mirror perfectly you wish to hear how long it is since I"
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      "text": "was placed by God in that high garden where this lady read it readied you to climb a stair so long and just how long it pleased my eyes. And the true cause of the great anger and what idiom I used and shaped my son the cause of my long exile did not lie within the act of tasting of the tree but solely in my trespass of the boundary. Okay."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "All right. Okay. So here Donnie has passed the test. He knows what love is and now he's talking to Adam the first man. Okay. And. And Adam says to Donna I know your question is how long did it take me to come to heaven right because I'm like because I commit the original sin I trespass the boundary I trespass the condition that God gave us and you want to know how long did it take take for God to forgive me and allow me to ascend to heaven. Okay. Why is this paradoxical. Why is this heresy."
    },
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      "text": "Yes. There is no like the sense of time in heaven. So you like you just can't measure how long did it take. Okay. Yeah. That's a good point."
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      "text": "But remember he had he was exiled from the Garden of Eden. He had to roam the earth. Right. So the question is like how long you have to roam the earth before God forgave him and allow him to ascend to heaven. Right. But this is but there's a paradox in all this. What was the paradox."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "I think there's a paradox. I think like in the Bible it says he lived to 900 years or something. Sure. Yeah."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay."
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      "text": "Right."
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      "text": "There's a huge paradox here. What's the paradox. Yes."
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      "text": "So maybe Adam doesn't really deserve heaven to begin with because you know he ate the fruit and all and he sinned and there weren't any priests around back then to save him and basically he's not all that qualified for heaven."
    },
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      "text": "The original sin could be forgiven then why did Jesus need to like die for us."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "That is a good question. But there's an answer to this which is the problem isn't the original sin. The problem is our pride. And so through you know genetics the idea of pride the idea of original sin the idea of evil was transmitted from generation to generation. And that's why Jesus had to come in order to redeem us of our evil to ransom us of our sin. Okay. That's an explanation back here. But there's a paradox here where Adam is saying I was punished for my trespass of the boundary. What's the paradox of this. Again it's very subtle. It's hard to see. Right. But in the Bible if you read the Bible if you go to Sunday school what do you taught about the Garden of Eden and the fruit."
    },
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      "text": "The Garden of Eden is the best garden the best place that you could ever be and the fruit is the best thing you've ever tasted."
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      "text": "Who tasted the fruit. Who broke the boundary."
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      "text": "Eve."
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      "text": "Eve. What's going on here. It's Eve who trespassed the boundary. And then she tricked Adam into eating it. Right. And here saying no it's Adam. This is really strange. It's a paradox. This is saying that it's Adam and not Eve who was responsible for the original sin. This is revolutionary. Right. Let me ask you this question. What is the status of woman in the Divine Comedy."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "They are quite elevated. They are the spoken word. Yeah."
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      "text": "Right. Think about this. In heaven who teaches Dante. Beatrice. When we keep on going you will find like the person that is the most elevated in heaven is not Jesus. Who is it. Can you guys guess. Mary. This is really strange. Okay. So not only is Adam taking responsibility for the original sin. But Mary is being elevated higher than Jesus. What's going on here. Again this is revolutionary. This is heresy. Right. Why is Dante doing this. Yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Maybe he is telling people to stop blaming women for everything that happened to you. And start taking ownership of what you have done."
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      "start": 5925.32,
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      "time_label": "1:38:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. Sure. Yes. You then you."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:38:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "So I think maybe because love. Because you know women they just kind of representative of love. So if love does exist as God. Then the woman should be the God. Maybe. Woman should be God. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Yes. Well I mean Adam was created first. And Eve was born first. And Adam was made out of his flesh. So out of that you could say already that Eve has like a higher form. Because she's made out of flesh. And Adam is made out of like dust. And Adam was created as the first human. So he and he was told personally by God that he should not eat the fruit. And Eve was only told by Adam that she shouldn't eat the fruit. So Adam has to take the responsibility for eating the fruit. Because he. He was. Like told directly by God."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. Okay. Yeah. So we're not arguing about it was Adam's fault or Eve's fault. Okay. We can go on and on about this. But but like I want to know why women are being elevated to such a degree in heaven. Where Beatrice is the teacher of Dante. It is Beatrice who will reveal the truth of the universe to Dante. And where Mary is elevated more than Jesus. Why would Dante be doing this? Yes."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:40:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "So maybe he's using the idea of maternal love again. Like he thinks maternal love is the closest thing to selflessness that God has on this earth."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "That is true. He definitely thinks very highly of mothers. Yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Okay. Yes. I think for Dante the source of love was originally his love toward Beatrice. So that's why I think he's Beatrice or the feminine love. The feminine love embodies the you know the initiator of his love. So I think that's why he thinks highly of female."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:40:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. True. Okay. That that is that is a motivation. Okay. But what are some other motivations? Yes."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "I'm not I'm not that sure but at the time I don't know how the position of women was. But maybe in society they typically weren't the teachers. And maybe in the material world they weren't enjoying their lives that much. So sort of inverted in heaven. Yes. And they could be saved."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:41:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes. Okay."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "I'm just guessing but does this have something to do with like the Catholic Church and how they treated women at the time? Yes. Yes."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So this is a social critique. Right? He's criticizing directly how women are oppressed in society by the Catholic Church. Does that make sense? Yes. And what he's also saying is that if there is if God is to shine in the world if love is what matters you can't do that. There has to be equality between the sexes. Otherwise there can be no love in the world. If women are being oppressed at home in society then this is going to negatively impact society because the children will go out thinking that men are superior to women. Okay. If there is if you have if you are to truly access God. If love must come to the world a precondition must be equality among the sexes. Okay. Does that make sense? Okay. So it's a very subtle social critique. Any questions before we move on?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Yes. Well but Dante doesn't just like make women equal. He elevates them even. Right? Right. But it's an inversion."
    },
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      "start": 6162.86,
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      "time_label": "1:42:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right? Yeah."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:42:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Right."
    },
    {
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      "start": 6164.06,
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      "time_label": "1:42:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "It's a highlight the inequality of the real world. Right? So you're drawing this contrast. There's this massive inequality in our world where women are not allowed to teach because they don't know anything. They're not even allowed to be educated really. Right? And where men are always placed in higher positions than women. So he's going to invert this in order to show you the inequality back in our world. Does that make sense? It's a contrast. Yes?"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:43:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "I would just like to draw attention to all the tree motifs he has been using. That's all I wanted to say. It's a tree of life like obviously."
    },
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      "start": 6204.77,
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      "time_label": "1:43:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right. Okay. All right. Yeah. There's lots of reference to the tree. Okay. Let's keep on going."
    },
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      "start": 6211.44,
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      "time_label": "1:43:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 118. During 4,302 returnings of the sun, while I was in that place from which your lady sent you, Virgil, I longed for this assembly while on earth I saw the sun return to all the lights along its way. 930 times."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "1:43:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So what he's saying is that after I died, I went to inferno. Okay. I went to hell. And who saved him from inferno? Can you guys guess? No. No. No. Peter doesn't have the power to save Adam from inferno. Jesus. Right? Okay. Keep on going."
    },
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      "start": 6255.65,
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      "time_label": "1:44:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 124. The tongue I spoke was all extinct before the men of Nimrod set their minds upon the unaccompanied. For never has anything produced by human reason been everlasting. Following the heavens, men seek the new. They shift their predilections. That man should speak at all is nature's act. But how you speak, in this tongue or in that, she leaves to you and to your preference. Before I was sent down to hell's torments on earth, the highest good from which derives the joy that now enfolds me was called heaven. I was called I. And then he was called L. Such change must be. The ways that mortals take are as the leaves upon a branch. One comes, another goes. On that peak rising highest from the sea, my life, first pure, then tainted, lasted from the first hour to the hour that follows on the sixth when the sun shifts to a new quadrant."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. So there's heresy here. What is the heresy? Yes."
    },
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      "text": "Then he was called I. Yes."
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      "text": "That's the heresy. Why is this heresy?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "Get up in Jesus."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. Right. So what the Catholic Church insists on is the consistency and the constancy of Christianity, right? It's all consistent. And what Adam is saying is, no, it's all change. We change the name of God over time. And that was just a natural change. It's a natural process. It doesn't make sense. Okay. Because what the Catholic Church is trying to say is that our faith is immutable and eternal. What Adam is saying, no, guys, that's not how these things work. It works. Okay. Faith can be changed. What matters is your connection to the divine. Does that make sense, guys? All right. So again, Donnie doesn't care anymore. He is going all out. All right. Yes."
    },
    {
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      "text": "And I wonder if the owl refers to, like, Elowen or something, which used to be an old name of God in the Old Testament. So he was called Jehovah. He was called a lot of other things."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right. Right. Okay. So what you're referring to is the fact that in Genesis, what Genesis is doing is combining four different versions of the Bible. And we know this because there are two different names for God in Genesis. There is Elohim, which means gods, really, and then Yahweh. Okay. So we know that these are two different writers. Okay. So they're different names. And so Donnie is just drawing us back to this simple fact, which is, like, there is inconsistency in the Bible itself. Okay. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "1:47:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the line from 126. For never has anything produced by human reason been everlasting. What he means by that. Let me see."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Oh, right. Okay. Okay. So what he's saying is this. Okay. The universe is eternal. God is eternal. Okay. But language, which is a part of our reason, it is a limited tool to express the divine. And over time, what's going to happen is that we're going to constantly change our language, constantly refresh our language in order to express the divine. Okay. And the people who will try to refresh our language in order to express the divine are the poets. Right. Okay. And this is a natural process. So don't believe everything in the Bible, because the Bible is not necessarily divine. The Bible is an expression of the divine in order to accommodate our limited senses. Does that make sense? Yeah."
    },
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      "start": 6504.55,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "But could it also refer to how over years, human logic reasoning can always change? Like something, for example, today that we think is normal a thousand years ago wasn't, and vice versa. Right. But the faith, the hope, that is everlasting."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right. That's exactly what he's saying. Okay. But the point I'm trying to make is that reason is predicated on language. Only with language can you reason. Okay. And what poets do is they constantly refresh language to allow for more reason to take place. Okay. So what Donny is doing is he's trying to promote the primacy of poetry over everything else. Okay. Language. Okay. That doesn't make sense. All right. Let's keep on going, guys. This is now Canto 27. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "Canto 27. Unto the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, Glory, all paradise began so that the sweetness of the singing held me rapt. What I saw seemed to me to be a smile. The universe had smiled. My rapture had entered by way of hearing and of sight. Oh, joy. Oh, gladness words can never speak. Oh, life perfected by both love and peace. Oh, richness so assured that knows no longing. Before my eyes there stood a flame, the four torches, and that which had been first to come began to glow with greater radiance. And what its image then became was like what Jupiter's would be if Mars and he were birds. And had exchanged their plumages. After the providence that there assigns to every office its appointed time had to those holy choirs on every side commanded silence, I then heard, if I change color, do not be amazed, for as I speak, you will see change in all these flames."
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      "text": "He who on earth usurps my place, my place, my place that in the sight of God's own Son is vacant now, has made my burial ground a sewer of blood. A sewer of stench, so that the perverse one who fell from heaven here above can find contentment there below."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, all right. This is Peter, okay? And Peter has come out and he is making the most radical, the most revolutionary chrism of the Catholic Church, okay? So Peter is saying, he who on earth usurps my place, my place, my place that in the sight of God's own Son is vacant now, has made my burial ground a sewer of blood, a sewer of stench, so that the perverse one who fell from heaven here above can find contentment there below. This is, this is kind of crazy, okay? What he's saying. First of all, what is, where is this burial ground? The Vatican, okay? The seat of the Catholic Church. That's number one. Number two is, who has usurped his place?"
    },
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      "text": "Satan."
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      "text": "Nope. The Pope, right? Okay. He's made my burial ground a sewer of blood, a sewer of stench, so that the perverse one who fell from heaven, who's the perverse one from heaven?"
    },
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      "text": "This one's Satan."
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      "text": "He's saying the Vatican is the seat of Satan. This is literally what he's saying. The Vatican is the seat of Satan. What? And where's he saying this? Where's he saying this? In heaven. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "And you know, this is not that much of a surprise because like in Inferno, he already condemned the Pope to hell when he dies, so..."
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      "text": "That's Inferno. This is heaven. What should you be doing in heaven?"
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      "text": "Praising and being happy."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "How about forgiving others, right? Isn't that like the, like the main Christian virtue? Forgive others. Understand others. Show empathy. Be merciful. Peter, who is the first Pope, who is in heaven, who is... Besides God, who has all the eternal rewards that he could ever wish for, he just goes on this rant about the Pope, saying this is a servant of Satan. What is going on here?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yes? Yeah, because maybe the Cassidic church during the back of that period is really chaotic, so maybe he just wanted to represent that out of disguise is not good."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. I understand why he's angry. But the paradox is, wait a minute here. You're in heaven. You recite God. God is all loving. God is all forgiving, all merciful. And you are cursing the representative of God on earth. Okay? This is a paradox. I have absolutely no idea how this was able to escape the Catholic church. Okay? This is pretty blatant, what's going on. Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "So I know you won't accept this. I understand. I have no idea because you said that Dante is perfect. But personally, I think that him and his opinion is bleeding through a little."
    },
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      "text": "Well, clearly he does not like being in exile. Clearly he hates the Pope, right? This is his vengeance. But at the same time, he's a poet. At the same time, he's trying to speak the truth. And so again, let us give him grace. Let us assume that what he's doing is to speak for God. Why is he doing this? What's the purpose of this paradox? Quite honestly, no one knows. This has baffled scholars forever. Okay? This passage is like, what is going on here? Was Stony drunk when he wrote this?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "I think he did this maybe just to give a dramatic effect to his poem. So that this could be remembered as the shocking literature."
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      "text": "You're right. This is kind of dissonance, right? We will forever remember this. Okay? But at the same time, again, what Don has been saying all this time is that God is all -forgiving, all -love, all -merciful. Yet Peter cannot forgive the Pope. Cannot forgive. Yes? To warn humanity, beware of false gods."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "Beware of..."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "But everyone knows this. Like the corruption of the Church is so blatant. Everyone knows this, right? The indulgences are blatant. Yes?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Or is it because he thinks that what the Catholic Church has done really is the greatest sin in separating us from the divine?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes. Can you explain? Can you elaborate?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Throughout what we've read in the Divine Comedy, the main belief of Dante is that we should, as humans, we can connect to the divine. But he sees that the biggest blocker of this is the Catholic Church. Therefore, what they are doing now on earth is the greatest sin. And it can't be forgiven."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:56:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "Yes? So I think it starts in John and then in Ezekiel. And then it goes to the Book of Revelations where they're talking about the Antichrist. And the Catholic Church seems to be more worried about heretics. But the Antichrist is going to be somebody inside the Christian community who's going to purposefully lead them away in an opposite direction of God. Where heretics just have other ideas of God."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes, exactly. This is clearly, clearly what Peter's saying is that the Pope is the Antichrist. This is blatant, okay? There's no misinterpreting this, okay? There just isn't. Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I think there's two factors to this. One is that God is all -loving and all -forgiving. But Peter is not God. Like, they're in heaven. They're very close to God. But Peter is allowed to sometimes be a little bit hateful. That's the first part. And the second part is that Dante is not God. He's not here to stay. Dante is not here as a permanent resident of heaven. Dante is here so that he can take a message and he's going to go back and he's going to tell everyone all about what he saw, what he experienced here. And Peter is giving him this message so that he can go back and pass it back. And Peter is doing it with this in mind."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, but this creates another paradox, which is like, if you're in heaven and you've been there for thousands of years and all you've experienced is joy and happiness, where does this hate come from? Right? This is pure hatred. Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "It comes from the hatred of the subversion of the joy and happiness that you've experienced."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:57:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes. Okay. It's justice, right? It's like the thing is so unjust that you cannot rejoice in your own happiness. Okay? Does it make sense, guys? Okay? And this is the idea of Martin Luther King's famous phrase. Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. Okay? Does that make sense? Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. So it doesn't matter if it's happening far away from you. It doesn't matter if it doesn't impact you. You must speak out. Okay? That's what love is. Love is action. Love is concern for others in a way that you must act. You must act out. Meaning you must speak out. Okay? That's what true love is. Does it make sense, guys? Okay. So great. We'll take a break for lunch and then we'll come back. Okay? All right? But you guys are doing a great job. We're going really fast. And you know, our mission is to really reveal Dante's will and testament to the world."
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      "text": "And we're doing that right now. Okay? So thank you very much. And we'll continue after lunch. To mysterious ways. And you just have to trust him. Okay? You have to accept him. You have to trust him. Hope is humility. Understand that everything works by the grace of God. You'll be saved by God. And you must be humble before the power and grace of God. And love is just obedience. To obey the church. To obey God. And then the church will lead you to salvation. And for, again, most of its history, the church will teach you. Tell me. And you, I risk my life, and I, and I'm still here to teach, to tell me how I can help We're going to take a run. And. And the signature move is, is go through the passage is a crime. Onyx is not just a crime. As it were, it's a parchment orichoad, or, ororo, or"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0300",
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      "text": ",oroo. L highway is a crime in which it's committed, and the road is perfect, which all the roads make. And it's perfect, because. But it's a cliff, and it's a mountain. Point is. to each other it's an act of imagination that's what faith is constant recognition that the universe is one and whole it is governed by love and free will hope is one of arrogance to believe that you yourself can be jesus you can be david you can be moses as long as you have the will to do so and for your actions you can change the universe and then love is one of action right it's almost disobedience where if you see justice anywhere you recognize for your faith for your hope that you have the power to change it because justice anywhere is justice everywhere that's why peter you are so angry even though really has no reason to be angry okay so"
    },
    {
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      "text": "a way for us to understand the difference is paul saying there is a plan and trust it okay trust the plan what don is really saying is that we are the plan we are the ones who bring faith hope and love to the world that is the plan that is why we're here and that is and so this is a brief summary of thing of things that we learned this morning are there any questions about what we learned this morning before we continue i know we're going very fast uh you guys are doing a great job and i want to make sure that you're on track okay you understand"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "what don is really trying to say yes um so what don is trying to say he's not trying to get rid of obedience entirely he's he's not trying to push self -determination he's saying okay be obedient but don't be obedient to the church be obedient to god and the voice within you is that what he's"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "saying okay what i'm trying to point out is what the priorities are right for paul the priority the priority is to accept the mystery of god to be humble before god and to obey god and what don is saying is that no we are not passive observers we are active participants in the universe and we have a responsibility to do that and we have a responsibility to do that and we have a responsibility to do that and we have a responsibility to uh use our imagination to believe we can change the world to have courage and to love others okay to promote justice in the world it doesn't it does you no good if you live a virtuous life as long as there's injustice in the world so again every this is all radical it's all a real radical conception a revolutionary conception of our place in the cosmos okay and again it's this it's"
    },
    {
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      "text": "these three things this imagination this arrogance this um um desire to take action okay it's the driving force behind modernity right it's what will give rise to positive reformation the enlightenment the renaissance it's our revolution it's these it's these three ideas right it's it's this conception that will change human history forever i know it's hard to believe but i'm not going to lie to you i'm not going to lie to you it's hard to believe but if you think about it okay and you just apply it to human history it helps explain a lot a lot rather than just say well history is driven by these structural forces that are materialistic as marx would argue right so the history is not governed by these structural forces that are materialistic this what don is saying is that history is determined by the action of human history and it's not determined by the action of human history"
    },
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      "text": "it's not determined by the action of human history and it's not determined by the action of choices that we make that's what don is saying ultimately okay we're not just passive observers right marx would say that um there's these structural economic forces that drive history and what don is saying is that no it's humans that drive history it's us yeah could dante's"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:05:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "idea of humans drive history be the root of this uh great man great people idea of history instead of collective history"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:06:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "um that's a hard question for me to answer dante is the root of the renaissance he will give rise to the renaissance and the ideas of the renaissance will spread how it spreads how it in actual other ideas is a very complicated question okay all right so uh yes um so yeah i was i was thinking"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:06:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "about um an interview of you and uh some other guy i watched and you said um that individuality and creativity is the greatest threat to the system and basically you're talking about the real world so is there any other way you can talk about that because i think this is very when you when you have that individuality you can deny the reality before you and create your own reality and that kind of a um align with what donWith a said about arrogance as uh hope do you find personal connection with dante in this okay so i'm gonna make a very"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:06:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "arrogant statement okay so i first discovered dante four years ago when i was forced to teach dante for this great books course i was teaching in high school and before i never read dante um and i never had a desire to read dante and it was a very tough journey and four years later i will make the statement where i feel i understand dante better than anyone else in the world okay this is me not knowing a word of italian this is me not having studied dante formally this is me not knowing the scholarship behind dante okay but i but you could do this as an experiment where you go and try to sit on every dante classroom all right and i guarantee you that the conclusion that you will make is i have a better understanding of dante than everyone else because what i'm trying to figure out is the psychology of dante the"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "heart of dante the mind of dante and um i feel as though when i teach dante i'm channeling dante i think dante is looking at us smiling at us and a lot of things that i say a lot of things i do i'm trying to harmonize with dante i'm trying to open my heart in a way that allows dante to take possession of me and guide me a certain way okay it's almost like the holy spirit right all right so that's that's what i believe it's kind of crazy but me wrong all right find me someone who can teach dante better than i can yeah yeah i'm gonna be"
    },
    {
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      "start": 7721.38,
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      "time_label": "2:08:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "honest here i think the only thing that dante scholars can agree on is that they they have the best definition and best understanding of dante okay give me an example for example all these people whose scholarship you just attempted to refute for example the people in the commento before the tab of the text and translations their interpretation kind of diverges from you"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "or something okay well then i'd be very happy for you to read everything they write and then tell us what they write and i have an argument okay i'm probably open to that just tell us like this study scholar believes this and and and and i'd be i would love for this for this argument to take place so that people can hear a diversity of perspectives okay but i'm pretty confident my perspective has more weight okay uh yes so i like i like what he said about individuality"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:09:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "because i was trying to i was trying to build it into it and i thought i'd build it individually out into into action because it's individual action but the more that i'm looking at this maybe instead of a holy trinity it's a mortal trinity or something like that because individuality seems to be your individual imagination your individual arrogance your individual action so all three kind of work into the individual and it's almost like god"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "would want our individualized love you're absolutely right so dante what he does that's very controversial is he celebrates individuality to an extreme degree what he's what he's saying is he's not saying working together we can save the world he's saying that one person with enough faith hope and love can change the entire world that's arrogance right that's that's a celebration of individuality that is pretty extreme and uh yeah so thank you for that okay uh yes so um what"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:10:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "i'm actually very interested in is um why um is there any um personal personal experiences of yours"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "that helped you or connect with dante yeah so it's it has to do with exile right so um um all my life i've been in exile i was an immigrant to toronto where i grew up then i went to yale um which was basically isolation because i really didn't fit into the cultural milieu of yale and then from yale i came to china where i was looking for my identity i was looking for my identity i was looking for my roots but it was i was very much a stranger in a strange land because as you can see my values are very western right and i'm not gonna get along with chinese people uh because i am very much anti -materialistic so it's this sense of isolation the sense of exile that allows you to connect to a higher truth okay and that's the major connection it doesn't make sense but but but yes uh"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "yes but i would like to point out that"
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      "text": "your exile is um mostly voluntary i want to say that so was dante's um no it wasn't yes it was he was literally forced out of forest and always probably was confiscated okay as long as he was"
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      "text": "willing to omit his crimes as long as he was able to willing to compromise with the new faction he would have been allowed to let in he made the class decision to leave florence okay just golden history okay like they made many overtures to him and said you know you're going to compromise and you'll keep your property but you must you know pay a fine or whatever he thought it was unjust okay so it's his choice uh yes uh professor i have a"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "question it's like you're saying that uh your experience like you have lots of experience about the exile to different culture and different countries and using that i mean those kind of experience make you like quite approaching to the truth approaching to the free will of of god so does that means like if for us who never have the experience to move to immigrants or like uh being siloed from group it's much more harder for us to approach into the approach to the god so does that means uh human culture for the people you know like in a population those kind of people in the population from the culture kind of prevent people to uh getting the truth from the god look i mean if you"
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      "text": "live in the city you're gonna be much more creative than you think you're gonna be more creative than you if you live in the countryside if you are cosmopolitan you travel to many countries you're gonna be create more creative than if you are just you just stay where you are okay that's that's just historically accurate at the same time we need to recognize that dante never really traveled that much he really was within italy himself he didn't go and learn all the all these things okay so there seems to be a balance where if you um stay in one place you become complacent but you go too far you become rootless okay because what's driving dante and we have to remember this is his love for florence his love for his family his love for his neighbors for beatrice okay so he's very much rooted in florence he never really leaves florence uh mentally psychologically"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "he may leave points physically but even when he leaves florence he still remembers florence he still um is nostalgic for lord he still longs to return to florence okay does that make sense there has to be a balance okay all"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "right let's continue okay canto 27 verse 28 then i saw all the heaven colored by the hue that paints the clouds at morning and at evening with the sun confronting them and like a woman who although secure in her own honesty will pale on even hearing another woman's failing just so did beatrice change an appearance in her own honesty will pale on even hearing another woman's failing just so did beatrice change an appearance and her own honesty will pale on even hearing another woman's failing just so did beatrice change an appearance and i believe that such eclipse was in the sky when he the highest power suffered then his words followed with a voice so altered from what it was before even his likeness did not display a greater change than that the bride of christ was never nurtured by my blood and blood of linus and of cleatus to be employed in gaining greater"
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      "time_label": "2:15:09",
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      "text": "riches but to acquire this life of joyousness sixes and pious urban and calixtus after much lamentation shed their blood we did not want one portion of christ's people to sit at the right side of our successors while on the left the other portion sat nor did we want the keys that were consigned to me to serve as an escachon on a banner that waged war against the baptized nor did we want my form upon a seal for trafficking and lying privileges for which i often blush and flash with anger from here on high one sees rapacious wolves clothed in the cloaks of shepherds you the vengeance of god oh why do you still lie concealed the gascones and the cohort scenes they both prepare to drink our blood oh good beginning to what a miserable end you fall but that high providence which once preserved was scipio the glory of the world for rome the"
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      "text": "glory of the world for rome will soon bring help as i conceive and you my son who through your mortal weight will yet return below speak plainly there and do not hide that which i do not hide okay right so um this is"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "again it's peter and he's and he's saying um and he's saying okay that the vatican is now the seat of satan right so what can be done what can be done first of all why didn't god just intervene wasn't peter just intervene and kill satan or whatever yes because that"
    },
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      "text": "that is disrespecting people's free will it's intervening exactly so god cannot intervene"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "right because again the fundamental principle of the universe is free will and free will is a manifestation an expression of god's love for us okay if you truly love you must give people"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "choice yes but didn't god intervene multiple times in the old testament for example well the ark of noah when like in the noah story um that's not"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "uh right and then and then what did god say to noah afterwards that it was a mistake exactly okay you guys understand this is something called the noah covenant sorry noah i destroyed the world and i should have done that man okay so god learns okay but he still intervened he still did right and he said i'm sorry i won't do it i won't ever do it again so that's the only instance you would say that's the only instance where he intervened um well i mean he's he's well in the old testament he did intervene quite a lot right but that's the last one no no no that that was him just saying like i won't destroy humanity if i'm angry okay you understand it's like i will never destroy humanity again uh yes um but you said earlier that"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "god was perfect love so why did he self -admittedly do this okay um yes so um i used to go to a bible"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "college so we have to write a lot of essays about these contradictions uh addictions in the bible"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:18:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "but we can talk about that after class if you want yeah okay um so we can go on for years about the contributions from the bible okay and what dante is saying is that let's just use our imagination okay and look look there are like 10 000 explanations and one explanation is it's not really god that's doing this it's the demi -urge that's doing this which is a false god right so so but but like i don't want to go there it's still confusing okay but like there are many different explanations for for what happened all right so again the question is peter says there's so much evil in the world so what does he tell donnie to do what is what must donnie do so what does he tell donnie to do so what does he tell donnie to do to address the evil in the catholic church we write divine comedy right okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "tell the world right divine comedy that's why you 'rerehere that's why god elevated you even in your body it doesn't make sense okay yes i'm a little bit confused with the line"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "six and seven um you the vengeance of god oh why do you still lie consumed what does that like on like consuming why doesn't god why didn't god take action"
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      "time_label": "2:20:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "It wasn't God take action, right? You, the vengeance of God, right? You, God, you're being offended by all this corruption, so why do you still not do anything about it? Why do you not take action? Why do you lie concealed?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "Speaking to God, right?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0338",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=8437s",
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      "start": 8437,
      "end": 8444.86,
      "time_label": "2:20:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "It's a Lamont. It's a Lamont. Yes, it's you, God. Okay, okay. Yes, okay. All right. Okay? Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=8447s",
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      "start": 8447.7,
      "end": 8502.69,
      "time_label": "2:20:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 67. When heaven's goat abuts the sun, our sky flakes frozen vapors downward. So did I see that ether there adorned. Far from that sphere, triumphant vapors now were flaking up to the Empyrean, returning after dwelling here with us. My sight was following their semblances, until the space between us grew so great as to deny my eyes all farther reach. At this, my lady, seeing me set free from gazing upward, told me, let your eyes. Look down and see how far you have revolved. I saw that from the time when I looked down before. I had traversed all of the arc of the first climb, from its midpoint to end, so that beyond Cadiz, I saw Ulysses' mad course, and to the east could almost see that shoreline where Europa was sweet burden."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0340",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=8503s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0340",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0340",
      "start": 8503.01,
      "end": 8535.63,
      "time_label": "2:21:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. All right. So, they are really up high, okay? They are so close to God, okay? They are about to enter the Empyrean, which is the seat of God. And then Beatrice says, look down and see how far you've risen, okay? And he's recognized that, oh my God, he's traveled the entire length of the cosmos. Let me ask you this question. Why is Beatrice guiding Dante? Why was Beatrice chosen to be Dante's guide through the cosmos? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=8536s",
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      "start": 8536.6,
      "end": 8558.64,
      "time_label": "2:22:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Personally, I would say that it's because Beatrice is a person who is familiar to Dante, and all of this is so grand, it's so beautiful, and so great, that if Dante tried to take it in himself, or if he was guided by someone who is like a saint, or someone not familiar to him, then he would have a problem taking it all in. So, Beatrice is kind of like a bridge, a bridge of love between Dante and God."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "start": 8558.98,
      "end": 8561.18,
      "time_label": "2:22:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Then why not Dante's mother, man?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 8564.64,
      "end": 8567.1,
      "time_label": "2:22:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Is Dante's mother still alive at the time of writing?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 8567.38,
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      "time_label": "2:22:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "No. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0345",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=8571s",
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      "start": 8571.63,
      "end": 8620.38,
      "time_label": "2:22:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "I think because Dante loves Beatrice. Exactly. You understand? It's that simple. Because what's elevating you is your love for another person, okay? And the love is so powerful, it's almost like a tractor beam. It's like a rope that carries you. Okay? Do you understand this idea? Because they're flying, and what's allowing you to fly is not Beatrice. It's your love for Beatrice. So, it has to be someone that Beatrice loves with all his heart, and that's why Beatrice was chosen. And that's how Dante was able to traverse the cosmos. Not him, not his will, okay? Not his imagination, but his love for Beatrice. That's what did it. Does that make sense? Okay? That's a very important distinction. Okay, let's continue."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0346",
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      "start": 8622.98,
      "end": 8639.72,
      "time_label": "2:23:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 85. I should have seen more of this threshing floor, but for the motion of the sun beneath my feet, it was a sign and more away. My mind, enraptured, always longing for my lady gallantly, was burning more than ever for my eyes returned to her."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=8639s",
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      "start": 8639.84,
      "end": 8671.54,
      "time_label": "2:23:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so do you understand? Do you understand what's going on? It's like, she, he is so obsessed with her, okay? He, what's keeping him going is the sight of her, right? That's what gives him faith, hope, and love. He has to see her. So wherever she goes, he wants to go as well. And it's his love for him, sorry, it's his love for Beatrice that propels his will and his imagination. Okay? That's the dynamic here. And that's the dynamic of the universe. Okay? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 8672.24,
      "end": 8693.8,
      "time_label": "2:24:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "I remember earlier on, you mentioned that for the writer, Dante, like Beatrice is kind of like another reflection, but a greater self of himself. Yes. And I was wondering now, since we're analyzing Dante's love towards Beatrice, but since it's also a reflection of himself, but a greater self, could this love be more nuanced?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 8693.9,
      "end": 8725.1,
      "time_label": "2:24:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "This is a great question. Okay. So, so let's sit back and think about this, where to love someone, okay, you have to love this person unconditionally. So you have to remove your ego from the equation. But the problem is, Dante didn't know Beatrice, right? They knew each other when he was like eight, and they knew each other on and off. So Beatrice is not a fully conceived person. Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 8726.56,
      "end": 8743.22,
      "time_label": "2:25:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "So maybe Dante here is preaching radical self -love because the church tells you to feel guilty for all the sins you have done. It tells you to be, to feel humility in front of the church. But Dante here is preaching self -love, be confident and love yourself."
    },
    {
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      "start": 8743.56,
      "end": 8749.52,
      "time_label": "2:25:43",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "No, no, I don't think Dante would do that. Why not? He would not preach narcissism. I have a hard time believing that."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 8750.06,
      "end": 8757.3,
      "time_label": "2:25:50",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "I don't think it's narcissism, loving yourself and narcissism is not the same thing. Narcissism is renating your ego. Loving yourself is being kind to yourself."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 8757.68,
      "end": 8787.99,
      "time_label": "2:25:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, this is really important because the reason why I say this is, next week we will, we will focus on the constant battle between Virgil and Dante, okay? We will focus on the constant battle between Virgil and Dante. It's very important we distinguish clearly what is true love. And when we learn about Virgil, you will recognize that there is a narcissism to his concept of love that does not exist in Dante. Dante's love is unconditional. Okay? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 8790.37,
      "end": 8815.63,
      "time_label": "2:26:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "So in the City of God, which I'm kind of digging into now. Jesus dies as a sacrifice for our sins and Augustine wants us to mirror his sacrifice and his suffering. So I think maybe what they're asking for is instead of like radical self -love or love of any one thing, it'd be the love of the acceptance of this sacrifice and the suffering in this life of Jesus."
    },
    {
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      "start": 8816.9,
      "end": 8862.35,
      "time_label": "2:26:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right, okay, so yeah, so Dante would demand that you leave your ego, that you transcend your ego. Okay? It doesn't mean you abandon your ego. Your ego is very important, but you have to reach out to someone else. So again, it's a really interesting question to think about. What's going on here? And Beatrice died when she was like 24, 25, okay? And Dante got married. He married someone, okay, who was not Beatrice. Beatrice married someone else and she died actually in childbirth. And so Beatrice... Beatrice is not a fully conceived person. So what's going on here? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 8862.93,
      "end": 8888.89,
      "time_label": "2:27:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "I think two things are happening. The first thing is that this is a very contemporary take, but the thing we cannot get is the most perfect in our mind. So because Beatrice is dead, like Dante's perception of her remained forever when she was young and when he was basically a teenager, a young adult, and he was thinking that she is all kinds of perfect. And her image is forever frozen at that age."
    },
    {
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      "end": 8892.62,
      "time_label": "2:28:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Is Beatrice a child here?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0358",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=8893s",
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      "start": 8893.42,
      "end": 8901.2,
      "time_label": "2:28:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that his image of her is frozen and that she cannot do anything to upset it."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "start": 8903.06,
      "end": 8904.48,
      "time_label": "2:28:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "No, no, no, no, no, no."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "time_label": "2:28:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Yes? So I, you know, since we have an Italian scholar already, so I'm going back to textualist and regionalist analysis. All right. Beatrice means the, you know, the blessed. The blessed. The blessed. Yes. So maybe this whole figure in this work is not a real person at all, it's just a, you know. I disagree."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "start": 8927.9,
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      "time_label": "2:28:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "I disagree. No, no. No, no. If she were not a real person, if she was just a figment of Dante's imagination, that Vine comedy would not work. It could not hold together. The Vine comedy has to be an act of love, okay? Beatrice had to be a real person. Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "start": 8944.62,
      "end": 8956.4,
      "time_label": "2:29:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yeah. Well, I have a question. I have a question because I think Dante didn't believe in love, but if you don't believe, before in love with someone and you just get married, then you say you believe in love. So I think this is a little contradictory. Okay."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0363",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=8956s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0363",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0363",
      "start": 8956.4,
      "end": 9030.41,
      "time_label": "2:29:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. Okay. Okay. Look, look. We're running out of time, okay? So I'll tell you my interpretation, okay? Dante could not have known Beatrice the person, but he could have known Beatrice the soul. Do you understand this? Even though she's dead, he could still... With his imagination. With his imagination, with his will, with his love, he could still communicate with Beatrice, okay? And how we know this is all the poetry that Dante wrote about Beatrice before the Vine comedy, right? So Beatrice was his muse throughout his life, even though he married someone else, even though Beatrice is dead. This is a really hard thing for you guys to appreciate, okay? But when you have an imagination... This imagination works by connecting to the entire cosmos. If you're able to focus your imagination in a certain way, you're able to talk to the person that you most love, okay? Does that make sense? Does that make sense to you?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0364",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=9030s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0364",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0364",
      "start": 9030.63,
      "end": 9067.98,
      "time_label": "2:30:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So I'm not saying this is what happened. I'm saying this is a resolution to the paradox here. How is it that Dante doesn't know Beatrice the person? Well, the answer is he knows Beatrice the soul, okay? Okay. So, when he was young, his mind was able to lift up to heaven and communicate with Beatrice throughout his life. And then the question is like, how is he able to do this? And the answer is they were soulmates, okay? They were born and they were meant to be together, but because of fate, they have to separate. But their souls were still aligned together in the cosmos, all right? Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0365",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=9068s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0365",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0365",
      "start": 9068.82,
      "end": 9093,
      "time_label": "2:31:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "I am reminded of Picarda and her story. So like, she was... was in the end forcibly married to a man, but she said herself that her heart was still with God, and the fact that she is in heaven right now proves this. So I wonder if the situation between Dante and Beatrice might be more of the same. Even though Dante is married to another woman, his heart will always be with Beatrice."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0366",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=9095s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0366",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0366",
      "start": 9095.97,
      "end": 9158.76,
      "time_label": "2:31:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, this is a really hard question to answer, okay? And again, we're just going to use our imagination. God is a source. Of course, we long to return to God, okay? A soulmate is different. A soulmate is a connection between two sparks, right, two lights that communicate with each other and which allows you to draw closer to God together. Does that make sense? This is a very important distinction because Dante will say this, and this is a very important distinction between Dante and Virgil. Dante says, Or you can only love God. You can only love someone else. You can only love a person. You can't love God. You can't love a concept. You can't love money. You can only love another person. If that were not the case, love has no meaning, okay? Whereas Virgil is like, Yes, you can. You can love God. You can love this. You can love that, okay? Again, when we get to Virgil, we are going to really appreciate this."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0367",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=9160s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0367",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0367",
      "start": 9160.46,
      "end": 9169.4,
      "time_label": "2:32:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Can we move on, please? I mean, it's... Okay. So, first of all, we have a friend. Could you introduce her, Carol?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=9171s",
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      "start": 9171.91,
      "end": 9188.41,
      "time_label": "2:32:51",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I'm delighted to introduce Aurelia, who is a much more recent Yale College graduate than Jiang or I, and is now studying at Yanqing Academy, and she has kindly made herself available to come read the Italian portion for us today."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 9188.71,
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      "time_label": "2:33:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And you've read Dante before? Okay, good. Okay. All right."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 9191.51,
      "end": 9192.29,
      "time_label": "2:33:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Only Inferno."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0371",
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      "start": 9192.81,
      "end": 9201.64,
      "time_label": "2:33:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Oh, okay. All right. Okay. So, this is Paradise. We are now in Paradise. Why is it you guys spend all your time in hell? Like, seriously."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0372",
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      "start": 9202.44,
      "end": 9207.86,
      "time_label": "2:33:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Hell is so interesting. I mean, there's so many terrible punishments. It's kind of fun to read about them."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 9208.82,
      "end": 9248.85,
      "time_label": "2:33:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "All right. Okay. Okay. Well, thanks so much for coming. And so, what we're going to do is maybe you'll read a tercet, and then you'll read the tercet, okay? And then we'll keep on going like that, okay? And again, why it's important to hear the Italian is it's designed to be read and spoken a lot. So, you can't really understand the poetry unless you hear it aloud, okay? And like, not knowing Italian, I'm going to make some stupid guesses about what's going on, okay? And then feel free to say I'm stupid or something, okay? All right. Okay. All right. So, let's continue, please."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 9249.21,
      "end": 9263.43,
      "time_label": "2:34:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "I'll pick up at 88 first, and then we'll do it one by one. My mind enraptured, always longing for my lady gallantly. It was burning more than ever for my eyes returned to her."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9264.33,
      "end": 9272.23,
      "time_label": "2:34:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "La mente innamorata che donnea con la mia donna sempre di ridure. Adessa gli occhi più che mai ardea."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 9272.39,
      "end": 9295.68,
      "time_label": "2:34:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Oh, wow. That's beautiful. Wow. Okay. This is why Dante is the greatest poet in the world, okay? You can now hear the beauty, right? Wow. Okay. Any comments about the... Could you read that again, okay? Because it's so beautiful. And could you do it a little bit slower so we can catch the cadence, the sort of fluctuations in sound?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 9298.53,
      "end": 9310.62,
      "time_label": "2:34:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "La mente innamorata che donnea con la mia donna sempre di ridure. Adessa gli occhi più che mai ardea. Oh, wow."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9310.72,
      "end": 9317.16,
      "time_label": "2:35:10",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay. Wow. Any thoughts, guys? Any impressions?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
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      "start": 9319.23,
      "end": 9332.33,
      "time_label": "2:35:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Let me be honest. It sounds much more gentle, and it sounds much softer than the English. I'm going off vibe here, but what I'm saying is that the English version does not convey the idea of love enough. It talks about love. It does not make you feel it. The Italian version does."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=9332s",
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      "start": 9332.55,
      "end": 9359.59,
      "time_label": "2:35:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. I felt my soul, like, vibrating, okay? No, I'm serious. And that's what Donnie is saying. The universe, it's energy, it's vibration, it's love. And this language, it is energy, vibration, and love, okay? This is why it's important to read the Italian, because when you read the Italian, it's constructed in a way so that you vibrate. And when you vibrate with the universe, it draws you closer to the source, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 9361.63,
      "end": 9377.71,
      "time_label": "2:36:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Yeah, I would actually like maybe whenever to hear more, because we don't get the opportunity to take advantage of the end rhyme scheme, the ABA, BCB. Yeah. And it goes, it would almost be sing -song."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "2:36:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. So that's why people trembled at Dante. Yeah. Because it has to be an angel, right? When he's reciting this poetry to you, he's like, an angel has taken possession of you and conveying the beauty of God. How else can you explain this beauty, right? Okay, so let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 9409.34,
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      "time_label": "2:36:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 91. And if, by means of human flesh or portraits, nature or art has fashioned lures to draw the eye so as to grip the mind, all these. All these would seem nothing if set beside the godly beauty that's shown upon me when I turn to see the smiling face of Beatrice. The powers that her gaze now granted me drew me out of the lovely nest of Letta and thrust me into heaven's swiftest sphere. Its parts were all so equally alive and excellent that I cannot say which place Beatrice selected for my entry."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=9476s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0384",
      "start": 9476.02,
      "end": 9509.65,
      "time_label": "2:37:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Nelle sue pitture. Okay. Verse 91. Tutte adunate parrebber niente ver lo piacer divin che mi rifulse quando mi volsi al suo viso ridente. E la virtu che lo sguardo mi indulse del bel nido di Letta mi divelse. E nel cibo di Letta mi rivolse. E nel cielo velocissimo mi impulse. Le parti sue vivissime ed eccelse. Si uniforme son. Chi non so dire? Qual Beatrice per loco mi scelse."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 9510.67,
      "end": 9541.46,
      "time_label": "2:38:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And I also point out, like, now we can connect things together, right? Where I just told you that Donny could only have written this because of his love for Beatrice, right? And, like, if you hear the language, if you hear the Italian, it's almost like they're making love. It doesn't make sense. The, this, just the vibrations, it's almost sexual. Yeah, yes, okay. Keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
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      "start": 9541.92,
      "end": 9561.1,
      "time_label": "2:39:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "I mean, I agree. I feel like there's something, like, very, like, the se. Could you talk? The se, like, there's a kind of, like, more, what's the word? But also, like, the cis, the, I don't know what I think, in English, like, the sismic rat, like, the sibilance, the sibilance, I feel like, comes through a lot more. Right. The Italian."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9561.32,
      "end": 9568.11,
      "time_label": "2:39:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Yes. Just out of curiosity, how close is this Italian to exactly what?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 9568.11,
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      "time_label": "2:39:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "It's exact. He created Italian, okay? This is the guy who created the modern Italian language. Yes. Okay, yes."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9580.7,
      "end": 9593.56,
      "time_label": "2:39:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "So, Dante has created this a long time ago. I'm wondering if the actual meaning of the words or the pronunciation have changed since then."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9594.97,
      "end": 9600.54,
      "time_label": "2:39:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "I'm guessing not. My guess is it hasn't, but you would know better than I do."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9600.7,
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      "time_label": "2:40:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "So, it's a different, it's different than modern Italian. Like, it sounds more, it's, it's, it almost sounds like the dialect that you would find in the South, like, some of the kind of, the ways that some of the words are shortened into one, or, like, you can see, chi non so dire, like, that would be che io non so dire. So, he's kind of, it's, it sounds, you can understand it with modern Italian, but it sounds different, almost like you'd read closer, maybe. Like, to Shakespearean English, kind of that type of feeling."
    },
    {
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      "start": 9630.58,
      "end": 9635.72,
      "time_label": "2:40:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Okay, yes? How different is it for you from Inferno, reading it?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 9635.96,
      "end": 9639.4,
      "time_label": "2:40:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "It's, like, way more, I feel like it's way more transcendent and beautiful."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:40:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, great question, okay? So, so what I, my guess, okay, I don't know, okay, but my guess is that Dante is trying to mirror the vibration of the universe, okay? So, obviously, in heaven, the vibrations are higher, okay? Lighter sounds. And then... In heaven, it's deeper, right? Slower vibrations, so harder sounds as well. And, like, having not knowing anything about Italian, okay? That's my guess."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:41:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Yeah, I remember, I actually had to learn a little bit of the Inferno, and I just, the only lines I remember is, like, it's, like, credio che credete che credeste, che tutti i voci ucciseranno, it's, like, more staccato."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:41:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "And, and you can do that by controlling the syllables, okay? Does that make sense? There are some hard syllables, and there's some, sorry, there's some hard consonants, and soft consonants, okay? This is all intentional on his part, okay? That's, that's how powerful this is. And, again, I, I said this two days ago, but, like, unless you truly understand Italian, it's almost impossible to understand it by a comedy, all right? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:41:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Um, so, uh, something, I think Italian is called, uh, Latin's master child, so, basically, Italian is really close to Latin, and I've learned a little bit, a tiny bit of Latin, and Latin has, like, endings, so, basically, you can see... a lot of ah, ah, ah, and these are all endings, and I think it makes it more, uh, arithmetic, almost. It makes it easier to rhyme, and it makes it flow more smoothly than English, which is all broken up. It has no endings."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "Okay. So, I've gotcha. Uh, so, uh, looking at the text, uh, in every terza, the last sound of the first sentence and the last sound of the last sentence actually always rhymed, and, uh, is there any name, uh, for this kind of, uh, uh, cadence or, you know, rhyme in the, in the Italian literature? You know, it's, it's not rhymed."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "I'm pretty sure there's some rhymed translations in English, but they are pretty bad. But I, I think what it's called, but..."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so, so, so, first of all, um, let me ask you this question. This, this is metered, right? Yeah. Okay, can, can you explain the, the, the, the, the meter scheme to, for, so, so we understand? Could, could you actually write it down for us? Yeah. Um, so, so, so, so..."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "So, like, we can look at which syllables are stressed. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "It's, it's called meter, okay? Yeah."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "So, like,. So, it's, like,. So, it's, like, every other syllable is stressed and unstressed.. So, I'm pretty sure, I need to check my notes because I, literally, this was, like, years ago, but..."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So, so, another thing, this is, this is music, okay? It's designed to be music, right? So, in other words, the idea is that you heard it once, right? You heard it once and it sticks in your brain forever and you can sing it to yourself, right? That's why, um, this became Tuscan, became the official language of, of Italy over time, okay? Okay. So, let's, let's, let's continue, guys, okay?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "All right. Verse 103. But she who saw what my desire was, her smile had so much gladness that within her face there seemed to be God's joy, began the nature of the universe which holds the center still and moves all else around it, begins here as if from its turning post. This heaven has no other where than this, the mind of God, in which are kindled both the love that turns it and the force it reigns."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "......................"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "........ reaching towards a sexual climax it it's a weird question but like do you think this language it's"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "moving towards a sexual climax i'm not sure if sexual but maybe i mean it's she's he's talking about desire right there's gladness like it feels very like that's kind of what he's talking about"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay so this is really uh i think i think the language is designed in to in order to demonstrate to illustrate the controlling the con cut the sort of intertwining of souls together okay it's almost like a sexual union a sexual climax where they've had this very long journey together they've had many adventures they've been through a lot of obstacles and now that they've reached the end they can now finally make love to each other okay okay is that merit in the language in any way yeah i feel like it's a very very important language and i think that that's"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "like I mean honestly I do feel like there's like the sibilance that I mentioned earlier and I feel like there's the also something I noticed earlier is like the way that the Italian words have I feel like meanings that come through they have similar sounds in English in Italian that don't come through in English so there's like one part where he says donna and donna so donna means woman donna is like to give so there's like I feel like overlapping meanings in some of the some of the sounds and then also okay I just looked it up terza rima is the form the rhyme scheme that you mentioned for David so like I think the terza rima also has something in there that builds to a climax just because it's like three lines a b a you know b c b and then continuing on and then ending in this couplet so I feel like"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "there is something that's like moving towards something in just the"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "rhyme scheme yeah I mean like just trying to figure out what he's trying to do it seems as he's trying to express the consummation of this love but between Beatrice and Dante yes and I think this is also very biblical because"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "in a lot of Jesus uh sermon on the mount or whatever like there were a lot of wedding things that's talked about yeah so he's yeah it's almost like a wedding yeah yeah thank you so much"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:47:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "that's a great point yes uh this is again my personal feeling but I think that uh this is more like these two uh both joining God and maybe joining together in the process than the two of them like joining together in the process and then the two of them like joining together in the process together separately because uh before this like before this climax there's like so many mentions of uh Beatrice looking towards God like uh she's his bride and of uh Dante looking towards Beatrice not Beatrice is so beautiful but God is shining for Beatrice and God is so beautiful so maybe they are both joining together in God and that's what's making them join not separately"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:48:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay yeah okay so yes you need to love someone in order to reach God"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "reach to God yes resonance before between like Beatrice and Dante and I know like misorder sex is considered as sinful and I like why are they justified for having these sorts of like resonance is it because it's leveled up from like physical to like a more spiritual level or okay so again"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "uh Dante he is a heretic he is not going to follow church theology and um the the sexual nature of this language what what is it trying to do do you think what was a point of this sexual language what what is it it's an effect on on the reader yes it's a universal"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "language and the reader is meant to understand it okay yes it represents that we're getting closer"
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      "start": 10157.37,
      "end": 10195.21,
      "time_label": "2:49:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "to climax aka getting closer to God exactly okay the sex is meant to represent God it doesn't make sense you guys okay because sex what what it is is the unit of all things okay all right so so so so as we are moving towards God there has to be the unity of Beatrice and Dante in order for Dante to fully proceed because when you when you approach God you have to do it by yourself it just won't be there as I said it's impossible for two people to be with God you only you can do it uh yes I'm reminded of this"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 10196.51,
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      "time_label": "2:49:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "system of uh limiting the days on which even marital sex can be undertaken like it's severely limited like no Sundays no lens no Easter and maybe uh this is a very this is an anachronistic stretch but maybe Dante here is advocating for not a free but at least a freer approach to human sexuality than what the church encourages there's very very little"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 10228.3,
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      "time_label": "2:50:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "into the mind comedy uh so okay uh yes I think that take is seeing the sex is more physical but"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "start": 10235.64,
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      "time_label": "2:50:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "it's spiritual yes yes uh Dante is advocating for a spiritual Union okay all right let's let's keep"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:50:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "on going okay verse 112 as in a circle light and love and close it as it surrounds the rest and that enclosing only he who encloses understands no other heaven measures is fierce motion but it serves as the measure for the rest even as half and fifth determined 10. and now it can be evident to you how time has roots within this vessel and within the other vessels has its leaves"
    },
    {
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      "start": 10313.8,
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      "time_label": "2:51:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay um something I want to point out is that it's it you can read the line coming from infinite angles okay so there is the Italian uh language um which provides insight there are these biblical references um but also something that people don't appreciate is the alchemy embedded within the Divine Comedy okay and what I mean by that is that I don't know for sure but but Dante was probably a member of a secret society and then and guys the point of society is not to engage in world domination okay the point of our society at this time in history is to engage in intellectual speculation which includes alchemy which is you know their form of chemistry and if you just read this really really closely you can see how there's almost a formula for blending in different elements together to create a new uh substance okay all right so and and there are these"
    },
    {
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=10372s",
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      "start": 10372.76,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "occult elements as well okay so I just point this out we don't have to go into it because I don't know about I don't know enough about alchemy to actually truly decipher the meaning okay I'm just saying how Divine Harmony provides a lifetime of endless study for multiple uh angles okay all right let's keep on going first"
    },
    {
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      "start": 10397.61,
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      "time_label": "2:53:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "one two one oh greediness you who within your Depths cause mortals to sink so that none is left able to lift his eyes above your waves the will has a good blossoming in men but then the never -ending downpours turn the sound plums into rotten empty skins for Innocence and trust are to be found only little children. Then they flee even before a full beard cloaks the cheeks."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 10459.29,
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      "time_label": "2:54:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so you can just hear the sounds, and even not knowing the language, I don't know the language, but you can really feel the sadness, the pity, the poignancy in the tone, right? Where Dante, Beatrice, they are now up with God, and they can look down below and see the folly, the silliness, the short -sightedness of the human, of humans, right? Okay? Where humans insist on fighting for almost nothing in our world, and they abandon the spiritual pleasures of a higher world, okay? It's a, it sounds like pity, it sounds like um, what, yeah, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 10507.85,
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      "time_label": "2:55:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Yeah, I agree, it sounds like a lament, and also I wanted to ask, like, you know that in history, this time, this is a time when Italy was embroiled in turmoil and in war, so could this be Dante's call for his age to stop fighting with each other and start uniting towards peace and great understanding?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:55:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Um, no, he's calling for greater enlightenment. He's calling for the recognition of the infiniteness, the vastness of the cosmos, okay? That's a secret. Asking for peace does you no good. What people need to recognize is, what people need to do is expand their imagination. Expand their sight. Okay? That's what he's literally calling for, okay? And we'll see that as we go on, okay? Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=10561s",
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      "start": 10561.64,
      "end": 10589.44,
      "time_label": "2:56:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "1.30 One, for as long as he still lisps, will fast, but when his tongue is free at last, he gorges, devouring any food through any mouth. And one, while he still lisps, will love and heed his mother, but when he acquires speech more fully, he will long to see her buried. Just so, white skin turns black when it is struck by direct light. The lovely daughter of the one who brings us dawn and leaves us evening."
    },
    {
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      "start": 10591.76,
      "end": 10617.06,
      "time_label": "2:56:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Tale, balbuziendo ancor, digiuna, che poi divora con la lingua sciolta qualunque cibo per qualunque luna. E tal, balbuziendo, ama e ascolta la madre sua che, con lo quella intera, dissia poi di vederla sepolta. Così si fa la pelle bianca nera. Nel primo aspetto della bella figlia, di quel che porta a mane e lascia sera."
    },
    {
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      "start": 10620.67,
      "end": 10621.57,
      "time_label": "2:57:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:57:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 139. That you not be amazed at what I say, consider this, on earth no king holds sway, therefore the family of humans strays. But well before a thousand years have passed, and January is unwintered by day's hundredth part which they neglect below, this high sphere shall shine so that Providence long awaited for. Will turn the sterns to where the prows now are, so that the fleet run straight, and then fine fruit shall follow on the flower."
    },
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      "start": 10657.09,
      "end": 10687.33,
      "time_label": "2:57:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Tu, perché non ti facci maraviglia, pensa che in terra non è chi governi, onde si svia l 'umana famiglia. Ma prima che gennaio tutto si sverni, per la centesima che là giù ne letta, rageran sì questi cerchi superni, che la fortuna che tanto s 'aspetta. Le poppe volgerà, uson le prore. Si che la classe correrà diretta, e vero frutto verrà dopo il fiore."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:58:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so another thing that I'll point out is that astrology, astronomy are very important in the Divine Comedy. Again, I don't know astrology, so I can't comment, but you can see this, see astrology, okay? And what astrology really is is the cyclical movement of the universe. So, does a language capture cyclical movement? Are you able to feel and hear the cyclical movement, spherical movement in the words? I think"
    },
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      "start": 10726.21,
      "end": 10757.63,
      "time_label": "2:58:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "like outside of what we already talked about with the rhyme scheme returning, I think there is kind of maybe we can see a little bit more of the openness and the and like a certain kind of roundness I think in some of the vowels that end these, so I feel like it's a little bit more and then the like I feel like there maybe is like a circularity just to those and definitely a blooming and like a return, I feel like, to the seasons with the cyclicality."
    },
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      "start": 10757.87,
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      "time_label": "2:59:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so do you guys understand what's happening here? Okay, I'm just making these assumptions just trying to figure out what he's trying to say, right? And what if you actually know the Italian, what will happen is the meaning is actually captured in the language itself, okay? So that as you hear the language, images appear before you subconsciously and it excites your connection to the divine. Okay, alright, so let's keep on going."
    },
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      "start": 10798.11,
      "end": 10824.26,
      "time_label": "2:59:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Canto 28. After the lady who in paradise is my mind, disclosed the truth that is unlike the present life of miserable mortals. Then, just as one who sees a mirrored flame, its double candle stands behind his back, even before he thought of it or gazed directly at it, and he turns to gauge if that glass tells the truth to him and sees that it accords like voice and instrument."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0439",
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      "segment_id": "seg-0439",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0439",
      "start": 10827.1,
      "end": 10854.04,
      "time_label": "3:00:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Poscia che incontro alla vita presente di miseri mortali apere il vero. Quella che in paradisa la mia mente, come in lo specchio fiamma di doppiero, vede colui che in allumma retro, prima che l 'abbia in vista in pensiero, e se rivolge per vederse il vetro, gli dice il vero, e vede che il s 'accorda con esso come nota con suo metro."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "start": 10854.46,
      "end": 10873.26,
      "time_label": "3:00:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, stop, okay, alright. This is important, okay? Does anyone remember where we saw a mirrored flame before? A mirrored flame. This is actually very important for the ending, okay? So I draw your attention to this. A mirrored flame. A flame in a mirror. Where did we see this before?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0441",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=10876s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0441",
      "start": 10876.39,
      "end": 10882.585,
      "time_label": "3:01:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "Like during the pyramids when they discussed the dark spots on the moon."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=10882s",
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      "start": 10882.585,
      "end": 10917.37,
      "time_label": "3:01:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Exactly, okay, so do you guys remember where Patrice is trying to prove to Dante that brightness is just as bright no matter the distance, right? And so they construct this experiment where there are three mirrors, and you hold a light, a candle, and the brightness is still as bright anywhere. The size might be different, but the brightness is still the same. Okay? I want you guys to remember this, because this is the metaphor for God that Dante will use at the very end of the Divine Comedy, okay? The mirrored flame. Okay, keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0443",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=10922s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0443",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0443",
      "start": 10922.6,
      "end": 10947.71,
      "time_label": "3:02:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 10. So does my memory recall I did after I looked into the lovely eyes of which love made the noose that holds me tight, and when I turned and my own eyes were met by what appears within that sphere whenever one looks intently at its revolution. I saw a point that sent forth so acute a light that anyone who faced the force with which it blazed would have to shut his eyes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0444",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=10949s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0444",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0444",
      "start": 10949.84,
      "end": 10976.98,
      "time_label": "3:02:29",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Così la mia memoria si ricorda che io feci riguardando nel belli occhi, onde a pigliarmi fece amor la corda. E com 'io mi rivolsi e furon tocchi, lì miei da ciò che pare in quel volume, quandunque nel suo giro ben sadocchi. Un punto vidi che raggiava lume, acuto sì che il viso che gli affoca. Chiuder convienzi per lo forte a come."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0445",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=11014s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0445",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0445",
      "start": 11014.36,
      "end": 11045.41,
      "time_label": "3:03:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 19. And any star that seen from earth would seem to be the smallest set beside that point as star conjoined with star would seem a moon. Around that point a ring of fire wheeled, a ring perhaps as far from that point as a halo from the star that colors it. When mist that forms the halo is most thick, it wheeled so quickly that it would outstrip the motion that most swiftly girds the world. E quale stella per quinci più poche?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0446",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=11045s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0446",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0446",
      "start": 11045.45,
      "end": 11070.73,
      "time_label": "3:04:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Parebbe luna, locata con esso come stelle con stella si colloca. Forse contanto quando pare appresso. Halo cignere la luce che il dipigne, quando il valore che il porta più è spesso. Distante intorno al punto un cerchio digne, si girava sirato, che avria vinto quel moto che piuttosto il mondo cigne."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0447",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=11075s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0447",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0447",
      "start": 11075.46,
      "end": 11102.94,
      "time_label": "3:04:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 28. That ring was circled by a second ring the second by a third, third by a fourth, fourth by a fifth, and fifth ring by a sixth. Beyond the seventh ring which followed was so wide that all of Juno's messenger would be too narrow to contain that circle. The eighth and ninth were wider still, and each, even as greater distance lay between it and the first ring, moved with lesser speed. E questo era"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0448",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=11102s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0448",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0448",
      "start": 11102.94,
      "end": 11132.95,
      "time_label": "3:05:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "ad un altro circuncinto, e quel dal terzo, e il terzo poi dal quarto, dal quinto il quarto, e poi dal sesto il quinto. Sopra seguiva il settimo si sparto, già di larghezza che il messo di Juno. Intero a a contenerlo sarebbe arto. Così l 'ottavo e il nono, e chiasche d 'uno, più tardo si movea, secondo che era il numero distante più dal uno."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0449",
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      "start": 11133.21,
      "end": 11168.57,
      "time_label": "3:05:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so let me point this out where the poetry, it is written in metered, it's written in rhyme as a way to express the mathematical beauty and structure of the universe itself. Okay? Does that make sense to you guys? Where the poetry, the language, the construction of the meter, it's meant to mirror the symmetrical structure of the universe. Okay? Is that true here? Can you explain?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
      "date_label": "2026-06-18, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0450",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=11168s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0450",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0450",
      "start": 11168.93,
      "end": 11196.55,
      "time_label": "3:06:08",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Yeah, I think the way that we saw, how it was written, you know, it goes, I think he's really trying to overwhelm us with the numbers, right? Dal uno al secondo, poi dal quarto, terzo, quinto, quarto, sesto, quinto, like, he's kind of trying to, I think, reflect in this kind of overwhelming rhythmic and rhyming vision, reflect what the universe is structured like and how beautiful this kind of symmetry is. So, so,"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0451",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=11196s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0451",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0451",
      "start": 11196.57,
      "end": 11238.09,
      "time_label": "3:06:36",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "it's interesting, okay, because like we are doing, we are, we are reading this poetry wrong, because poetry is not meant to be read, okay? It's meant to be heard and spoken. So, when Dante was writing this poetry, guess what, guys? He didn't, he was not writing the poetry. He was speaking it. He was singing it. Okay? Do you guys understand this? Okay? So, we're looking at it, and really it was always meant to be heard and spoken. And that's really the great feeling of, I think, literary education nowadays, where we actually try to read the poetry when it was actually meant to be read aloud. Okay? Alright, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0452",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=11241s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0452",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0452",
      "start": 11241.44,
      "end": 11268.5,
      "time_label": "3:07:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Verse 37. And I believe the ring with clearest flame was that which lay least far from the pure spark, because it shares most deeply that point's truth. My lady who saw my perplexity, I was in such suspense, said, on that point depend the heavens and the whole of nature. Look at the circle that is nearest it, and know its revolutions are so swift because of burning love that urges it."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0453",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=11269s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0453",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0453",
      "start": 11269.44,
      "end": 11301.71,
      "time_label": "3:07:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "And that was the most sincere flame. Here the pure flame was the pure flame. I believe, however, that more than her is true. My lady who saw me in care, strongly suspended, said, from that point depends the heavens and all the nature. Look at that circle that is nearest it, and know that her movement is so hard for the focused love where it is put. Verse 46."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0454",
      "start": 11302.7,
      "end": 11336.52,
      "time_label": "3:08:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "And I to her, if earth and the nine spheres were ordered like those rings, then I would be content with what you have set out before me. But in the world of sense, what one can see are spheres becoming even more divine as they are set up more distant from the center. Thus, if my longing is to gain its end in this amazing and angelic temple that has as boundaries only love and light, then I still have to hear just how the model and copy do not share in one same plan, for by myself I think on this in vain."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0455",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0455",
      "start": 11338.1,
      "end": 11372.38,
      "time_label": "3:08:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "And I to her, if the world were set up with the order that I see in those rings, I would be content with what she has proposed to me. But in the sensitive world one can see the times more divine than they are from the most remote center. Where, if my desire is to have an end, then I still have to hear just how the model and copy do not share in one same plan, but by myself I think on this in vain. Thus, if my longing is to gain its end in this amazing and angelic temple that has as boundaries only love and light, then I still have to hear just how the model and copy do not share in one same plan, but by myself I think on this in vain. And I to her, if the world were set up"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 11372.38,
      "end": 11433.2,
      "time_label": "3:09:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so there's a paradox here, right? Where what Donnie sees is God is at the center of the universe and from there everything else emanates outwards, vibrates outwards. And obviously the closer, to God you are, the faster you spin, the faster you vibrate because you burn for your desire to be closer to God. And as you move out it's almost like people lose faith, they lose hope, and they spin more slow. They're more lethargic, okay? That's what he's seeing. But in our world, in the world of senses, it's the opposite, where... if you look out in the night sky it seems as though the further you are the faster and also the more holy the more divine it seems so how can we go about explaining this contradiction okay"
    },
    {
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      "text": "so based on what we've learned what's the answer yes well i mean i would say that it doesn't make a difference because god is everywhere and anywhere so like the sun shines everywhere in every spot so you can still feel god for example like a metaphor okay good okay all right god is"
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      "text": "everywhere so there's really no center god we are the center yes okay any other possibilities based on what we've learned what we've discussed all right so she'll tell us okay well let's keep"
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      "text": "going verse 58 you need not wonder if your fingers are unable to undo that knot no one has tried and so that knot is tightened taught my lady said and then continued if you would be satisfied take what i tell you and let your mind be sharp as i explain the size of spheres of matter large and small large or small depends upon the power more or less that spreads throughout their parts more excellence yields greater blessedness more blessedness must comprehend"
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      "text": "that body's parts are equally complete let let's just finish her or yeah her speech and thus the"
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      "text": "sphere which sweeps along with it the rest of all the universe must match the circle that loves most and knows the most so that if you put draw your measure around the power within and not the semblance of the angels that appear to you as circles you will discern a wonderful accord between each sphere and its intelligence greater chords with more smaller or less"
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      "text": "if your fingers are not enough for such a knot it is not wonderful so much so as not to try it is done only so my woman then said take what i will tell you if you want to satisfy you and around it you are thin the body circles are wide and art according to the most and least of the virtue that extends to all their parts greater goodness wants to do greater health greater health and greater body that if he has the parts equally accomplished therefore this one that everything as much as it raps the other dry universe corresponds to the circle that loves more and knows more because if you have the virtue around your measure not the appearance of the substances that tap on round you will see a wonderful consequence of maggio and more and less in each of you and in the same way you will see a wonderful consequence"
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      "text": "of maggio and more and less in each of you"
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      "text": "okay so what's the answer what does she say how can we explain the paradox where in this realm in a spiritual realm god is center of the universe but in our realm it's almost the opposite right where we are the center of the universe and everything else expands outward so god is almost far away from us right how yes different perspectives we are looking at god one way"
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      "text": "god's looking at us oh well whatever"
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      "text": "well it's definitely different perspectives right but anyone what's going on what's going on here"
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      "text": "yes we we can become the center of this universe and the spheres revolve around us"
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      "text": "and how did we become the center of the universe yes by becoming one with god who is the center of the universe no no i'm saying how did we develop the uh geostatic model of the universe because"
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      "text": "the bible told us so okay"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "okay uh no i think it's ptolemy who told it so right it was in the bible"
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      "text": "uh the logic here is that god created the entire universe but god likes humans the best and therefore he likes the world that and the humans live on the best and therefore earth is the middle of everything i think that's kind of how the logic goes"
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      "text": "oh okay um anyone else okay i think what he's trying to say is that we live in a healthy home a world of illusion okay everyone can see with our eyes it's all just things we made up uh it's all an illusion okay it's all a product of our imagination because our imagination can both reveal the truth to us but it can also lie to us okay does that make sense okay but if you really want to know the true nature of the universe feel with your heart okay feel with your heart feel your soul if you do that you will know that god must be at the center of the universe and those that are most loyal to him those that um are most virtuous are closer to him than those who are not as uh virtuous okay that's the truth so our eyes lie to us but our heart will not lie to"
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      "text": "us does that make sense guys you"
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      "text": "any other explanations do you think yes uh yeah i have a question because uh we don't know where the heart is uh because some people said heart is your chest or heart of your mind or your heart is"
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      "text": "your intuition right it's what you feel to be right okay does that make sense it's like what you know to be right it's not what you see to be right it's what you know to uh be right okay"
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      "text": "any other questions yes like these these lines seem to like discuss the matter of material and spiritual um existence so to me i think it seems to say that um our eyes can only perceive the material um so but that but that um the material actually aligns with the spiritual in that um the more blessed some something is the more space it takes up and um the greater the body is not in"
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      "text": "our world though in the spiritual world she's referring to the spiritual world right but like"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "but like our eyes see things farther away as like greater and bigger okay all right okay"
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "so let me explain some some con to you manual count okay and this is his understanding of how we perceive things so con differentiates between the nomina and the phenomena okay nomina nomina is just things in themselves okay and this is this is what beatrice refers to as a spiritual world the real world okay and then the phenomena are things to us phenomena okay so how we interact with reality is we see the nomina and then we filter it through time and space and we see the phenomena so we can never actually see the nomina okay so the only way that you can actually see the nomina is with your heart with with your faith does that make sense and and and that's what beatrice is really saying here okay let me give you another example which is plato's allegory the cave okay players of the cave is where imagine prisoners a million of them"
    },
    {
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      "text": "chained to a floor in a cave and they can only see what's in front of them which is a wall an empty wall right behind them is this fire and you have these people who project shadows onto the wall with this fire and you know this to be reality but then one prisoner escapes and he goes out into the light and he sees the totality of the universe he sees the sun and he sees that the world that we are living in is false okay so that's what beatrice is saying he's just saying there are two realities there's a real reality the nomina and then there's a world that we perceive phenomena and so the question then is how can you escape into the light what propels you into the light and the answer of course is love okay um donnie's love for beatrice is what carries him through the cosmos and into the light"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "does that make sense uh yes uh maybe another way of um uh reconciling this um you know this distance versus uh center uh paradox is uh to view god not as a singularity or a point but a comprehensiveness so basically the bigger the scheme the closer we are to god so the god is really the most comprehensive the most you know uh permissive uh primitive which means this uh the god the s really is the biggest scheme and it's uh everywhere and nowhere so the further we look the maybe you know from the human point of view the you know the bigger scheme we have in our eyes"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "god okay yep good okay right anyone else did did you have a question or yeah i still have"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "a question because the love is uh i don't know what love really true love is it if you mean the true love it's just so so made just which can cause love or just using the sex the sexual"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "desire which can cause love uh love is something you don't you don't explain something love is something that you do love is something you experience right a mother's love for her child right it's all i can it's unconditional giving of yourself to someone else okay uh did you have"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:22:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "a question yes yeah i just want to ask uh does human intrinsically how uh how their intuition to observe or knowing what's really normalized okay um so when we when we depreciate what's"
    },
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      "text": "going on is that the soul uh is infinite okay what i mean by that is that it's existing in different dimensions all at once so you think that all that you see before you is what's real okay but there's a higher part of you that is also experiencing the spiritual world okay so um your soul is fragmented across infinite dimensions and the soul different things at at once but you've trained yourself to focus only on the here and here and now so when you engage in psychedelics when you engage in meditation um you're able to experience different aspects of your soul okay if that makes any sense yeah so but i feel i just don't"
    },
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      "text": "understand because for us we are like human we are limited by the time and space right so"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "uh we may no you're not your perception is limited by time and space yeah you are not"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "okay so so okay so let's say my perception is limited by the time and my uh uh but by the time and space and like uh my eyes will be deceived right maybe this is to find the truth so uh it's saying that um if i could be like deceived by or limited by my perception like how could i just uh convey the true message into my into myself who are who are stay at the higher layer you know because it seems like for me i can only um receive the information from right like so we"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:24:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "were discussing this like all the time okay use your imagination use your intuition act with faith hope and love yeah and then the soul aligns itself okay does that make sense"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_09",
      "text": "yeah i know so i just uh quite feel confused about the relationship between the soul and the perception because i think sometimes my i mean in order to make the decision my soul like needs some information for my perception is that right because i don't think i can intrinsically have those skills to know what is like right for me of my soul okay all right this is how the universe"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "is structured okay all right okay this is hard to understand but let's just say there is infinite number of us okay what's happening is that your soul is infinite it travels across multiple dimensions right so what's happening is that depending on the dimension your alignment with others is different right here you are by yourself here you're another person blah blah this goes on for an infinity right does that make sense and what you're what you're doing is you're focusing on the here and now and so what you're doing is you put you think that this is the only reality when in fact it's only a small fragment of the of your total reality okay all right okay uh let's let's let's continue and um for uh we we're the half hour just because we're in a rush uh we don't have to hear the town anymore let's let let yeah let's just um"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:26:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "read with english yeah verse 79 just as the hemisphere of air remains splendid serene when her cheek boreas blows and clears the scoriae dissolves the mist that had to face the sky so that the heavens smile with loveliness in all their regions even so did i become after my lady had supplied her clear response to me and like a star in heaven truth was seen and when her words were done even as and contest incandescent iron will shower sparks so did those circles sparkle and in each spark circled with its flaming ring okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "what is interesting about this language what what is strange about this language and it it's new to us what's what's what sentence stands out to you what sentence stands out to you as as weird or confusing this didn't happen before but it's happening now that we are closer to god yes go ahead line 88 to 90 is like the orgasm right yeah can you explain to us well um beatrice supplied her"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "clear response to dante and like a star in heaven truth was seen and when her words were done even in as incandescent iron will shower sparks so did those circles sparkle and each spark circle"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "circled with its flaming ring yeah do you guys do you guys understand this between right through ok she said answer my question like this with from magdy so i'm gonna do falling into now she's not gonna say anything because we'll come back to that you did okay and so now i really love what between reality said after all these five so if you're well the first one is what what you remember is that what is something that is just the will and i need more knowledge But now that we are at the very core, whatever you do is now reflected throughout the universe, okay? If you smile, the heavens smile with you. So even the most subtle thing can have a huge impact throughout the universe. This is like the butterfly effect, okay? And we're seeing it manifest itself here. Does it make sense to you guys? Okay, let's keep on going."
    },
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      "text": "Sparks that were more in number than the sum one reaches, doubling in succession each square of a chessboard, 1 -2 -64. I heard Hosanna sung from choir to choir to that fixed point which holds and always shall hold them to where they have forever been. And she who saw my mind's perplexity said, the first circles have displayed to you the seraphim and cherubim. They follow the ties of love with such rapidity because they're as like the point as creatures. Can be a power dependent on their vision. Those other loves that circle around them are called thrones of the divine aspect because they terminated the first group of three. And know that all delight to the degree to which their vision sees more or less deeply. That truth in which all intellects find rest. From this you see that blessedness depends upon the act of vision, not upon the act of love, which is a consequence."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "start": 12623,
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      "time_label": "3:30:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "The measure of their vision lies. And merit produced by grace and then by will to goodness. And this is the progression step by step. The second triad blossoming in this eternal springtime that the nightly ram does not despoil perpetually sings Hosanna with three melodies that sound in the three ranks of bliss that formed this triad within this hierarchy there. There are three kinds of divinities. First, the dominions and then the virtues and the final order contains the power. The two penultimate groups of rejoicing ones within the next triad are wheeling principalities and the archangels. Last, the playful angels. These orders all direct ecstatically their eyes on high and downward. They exert such force that all are drawn and draw to God. And Dionysius with much longing set himself to contemplate these orders. He named and distinguished them just as I do. Though later. Gregory disputed them when Gregory came here, when he could see with opened eyes, he smiled at his mistake."
    },
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      "text": "You need not wonder if a mortal told such secret truth on earth. It was disclosed to him by one who sought here above both that and other truths about these circles."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "So this is a hard question, OK, but but but let's but let me ask you and see what happens. So here we are in the Imperium and in the Imperium are the angels and there are different orders of angels. And these are perfect beings, OK, what how is starting describing the structure of the Imperium, what analogy can we use to to to explain Dante's understanding of the Imperium, it's it's it's if you read the language carefully, he is borrowing a language, a structure from where, yes."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:32:26",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Now, you're probably saying. That I'm wrong again, but I think this actually reminds me a lot of the circles of hell, the circles of hell, because circles upon circles upon circles, nesting within each other."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "time_label": "3:32:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "OK, let me ask you this question. Do you think that these angels are conscious?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "Yeah, that's that's a problem, isn't it? That's the problem. Like if they love God so much, if they're incapable of sinning, then do they truly have free will?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:32:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. So so what is this analogy of? What like like just think about your life and the universe, OK, the description here describes what really solar system, solar system, yes, OK, yes, the solar system, the movement of the stars, it's all. Yes, that's one possibility, but I'm actually thinking of thinking of something else. Yes, I think this looks like brain, you know, if you're in your head and yeah, the brain. Yeah, it's almost your body, right? It's almost like these angels are different organs in your body. They have absolutely no free will. They have no consciousness. They have a function and there's and there's and they exist for a different reason and they must exist together in order to maintain the functioning of the body. But by themselves, they have absolutely no free will. And this is a this is paradox. This is extreme paradox in here. If you are a. Catholic theologian, why would why would this be an extreme paradox for you?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "What are angels? What do angels represent?"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:34:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_20",
      "text": "They represent like dead people, like your soul goes up to heaven, you become an angel to me."
    },
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      "time_label": "3:34:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Why the messages of God? What do they represent when you think of an angel like like like how do you imagine the angel to be? Yes, virtuous, right? Yeah, OK, what else? Virtuous perfection. So here's a question for you, then are these angels being presented in a positive light in the divine comedy we think of angels as virtuous and as perfect, but here, like, do you want to be an angel? No, this is a paradox being created for us, right, right? I mean, you're taught to worship angels. You're taught to believe that angels are higher than you, but you read this and almost. It almost seems like angels are just part of a biological system that have absolutely no free will, no consciousness, no purpose. I mean, they have a purpose, but it's not something that they can control. They have absolutely no free will, OK? Does that make?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Yeah, somebody who thinks somebody wants to defend the angels might say, oh, but because they're perfectly united with God, they kind of have the perfect expression of free will, like they're the most free because they are free of sin. They don't have to worry about ending up in hell. And being chained up for the rest of your life. They they are fully free because they partake fully in the knowledge of God."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, that's a great point. So they are free because they can make no mistakes, right? They're perfect. So so what what we know about the angels is and just tells us is like, remember, the idea is that God is calling to you and you want to return to God. But it's your choice whether to turn to God or to turn away from God. Right. And here the angels. Are. Are always turning towards God. OK, so they've reached perfection. But my question, my question is that do you think this thought anything is a good thing or a bad thing? Right. Like I understand the argument, OK, but I'm just saying, like, for Dante, is this a good thing or a bad thing in that you are always turning towards God? Yes."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_22",
      "text": "Bad thing. But how? Why?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "They lack imagination. They lack the ability to imagine. And therefore they lack the ability to truly, in Dante's terms, love. Oximate God."
    },
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      "text": "Yeah, they they lack consciousness, right? OK, we think consciousness is a good thing. But but but but again, I mean, like like you can argue like what these angels represent is perfection, right? So when you truly embrace God, you're always turning towards God and you then lose consciousness. So it's a really weird idea to think about, right? Where? Huh? So we're taught to be perfect. We're taught to be virtuous. But that just leads us to losing our imagination, loses our consciousness. This is a really troubling understanding. OK, what's going on here? Do we do we agree that that that this is what's happening here? OK, but not only do the angels. They lack the ability. They lack imagination. They lack consciousness. They lack they lack something even more fundamental. And what they lack is memory. They don't remember anything. Why they have. Yeah, go ahead."
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      "text": "Sorry, I was about to say that they can't feel like time and space and memory, I guess, has is related to that."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah, yeah, you're right. OK, so without time and space, you can't have an experience. But but why would but why would you remember an experience?"
    },
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      "text": "It's when it's linked to an emotion, it's not linked to an experience, an emotion that you need the emotion."
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      "text": "OK, about the emotion, you don't have memory and it's impossible if you are a perfect virtuous being to have an emotion. Because why would you get angry? Why would you get sad? Why would you? Why would you cry? OK, so this is a really strange paradox because what it seems like what Don is really arguing for is the perfection of fallibility. You understand this idea? In other words, our flaws, our hatred, our pain or agony is what allows us to be perfect. OK, does that make sense? The imperfection is what's the perfection. The perfection is the imperfection. Again, Donnie's will and testament. I told you what he's trying to propose is revolutionary. It's shocking. It's mind blowing. OK, but I think. Given how this is structured, this is what he's trying to tell us. OK, we've come all the way and we are with the angels and we recognize these angels are kind of stupid, actually."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-18",
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      "start": 13211.665,
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      "time_label": "3:40:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right. You could not engage in a serious discussion with an angel. Angels would come to this class and they would not say anything. OK, they won't remember anything. Yes."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 13224.44,
      "end": 13237.74,
      "time_label": "3:40:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_21",
      "text": "So I have this comment on live stream that really echoes with. This is what Professor Jones says. It says angels are servants of God. We are not perfect. And the beauty of human is in his imperfection."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "3:40:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yes. OK. Yes. OK. Yeah. So, yes. I mean, you could argue like angels are just servants of God. OK. They're not meant to have free will. They're not meant to be conscious. They're not meant to have experiences. They're just meant to ensure the ordering of the universe. OK. There's meant to ensure this struck the proper structuring of the of the universe. They're like minions. All right. But again, this goes against our traditional understanding of all things. Right. OK. I mean, are you Catholic? No."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 13271.06,
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      "time_label": "3:41:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "OK."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 13271.5,
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      "time_label": "3:41:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "But like."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 13273.2,
      "end": 13276.48,
      "time_label": "3:41:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "But I am happy to pretend to be. OK. All right. OK."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 13276.48,
      "end": 13281.02,
      "time_label": "3:41:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "But like. But like. Like hearing this. What do you think?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 13281.64,
      "end": 13333.18,
      "time_label": "3:41:21",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "I wonder because I feel like there is a kind of I feel like Dante expresses this paradox throughout the whole project of the. Of the divine comedy, because we know he's lost in the middle of a dark forest at the very beginning. And he's trying to figure out, OK, how do I escape this like terrible confusion that I feel, which is what I feel like this student brought up was. Sorry, I don't know. But like this kind of confusion of what do I what do I actually want if I want kind of eternity, but also that I don't know what my life is meant for. And then I feel like here I think you're so right that there is a kind of. Almost I think we work up to this ecstatic ending and it's just angels circling God. And it seems I think he is. I think he's being serious by presenting it as OK, this is beautiful and a wonderful vision of perfection."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=13333s",
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      "start": 13333.44,
      "end": 13369.66,
      "time_label": "3:42:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "But then also because this is part of his journey, he is like maybe I feel I wonder if he identifies with Dionysus or Gregory and in this in Beatrice's final explanation where he is also a visitor. Passing through and he's seeing this and we know that I think we should take the divine comedy seriously. I don't think he's just presenting it as an allegory. I think he's like trying to say, I witnessed these things and I'm bringing them back to you. But I do think there is a kind of this is his journey from the darkness of the forest and that these angels perhaps do not relate to."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 13369.98,
      "end": 13382.56,
      "time_label": "3:42:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right. Yeah. So the idea is it's confusion that can only that leads to clarity. Right. OK. Thank you. OK. So let's let's continue. OK. Because I really want to finish on the divine comedy."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "start": 13384.36,
      "end": 13398.98,
      "time_label": "3:43:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_23",
      "text": "Oh, can I also just really quickly bring up because I know another somebody also brought up Augustine. I think there's an interesting similarity with confessions with like this kind of, oh, I'm a fallible human. I kind of desire perfection, but also not really like there's kind of a weird."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 13399.73,
      "end": 13408.75,
      "time_label": "3:43:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Right. OK. So this is going to be Canto 29. OK. And again. Yeah. Could you please read the Carol?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "start": 13408.75,
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      "time_label": "3:43:28",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Canto 29. As long as both Latona's children take, when covered by the ram and scales, they make their belt of the horizon at the same moment to pass from equilibrium, the zenith held in balance, to that state where changing hemispheres each leaves that belt. So long did Beatrice, a smile upon her face, kept silent, even as she gazed intently at the point that overwhelmed me. Then she began. I tell, not ask, what you now want to hear. For I have seen it there where, in one point, all winds and upas end. Not to acquire new goodness for himself, which cannot be, but that his splendor might, as it shines back to him, declare subsisto. In his eternity outside of time, beyond all other borders, as pleased him, eternal love opened into new loves. Nor did he lie before this, as of last night. There was no after, nor before. They were not there until God moved upon these waters."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0530",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=13473s",
      "segment_id": "seg-0530",
      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk@transcript:v1#seg-0530",
      "start": 13473.78,
      "end": 13533.33,
      "time_label": "3:44:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "Then form and matter, either separately or in mixed state, emerged as flawless being, as from a three -stringed bow, three -arrow spring. And as his ray shines into amber, crystal, or glass, so that there's no interval between its coming and its lighting, also did the three form matter in their union, flash into being from the Lord with no distinction. And beginning, all at once. Created with the substances where order and pattern, at the summit of the world where those in whom pure act had been produced, and pure potentiality possessed the lowest part. And in the middle act so joined potentiality that they never disjoined. For you, Jerome, has written that the creation of the angels came long centuries before all else were made. But this, the truth I speak. Is written by the scribes of the Holy Ghost, as you can find if you look carefully on many pages. And reason,"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0531",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFMYuE7DKk&t=13533s",
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      "start": 13533.39,
      "end": 13592.35,
      "time_label": "3:45:33",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "too, can see in part this truth, for it would not admit that those who moved the heavens could for so long be without their perfect task. Now you know where and when and how these loving spirits were created. With this, three flames of your desire are quenched. Then, sooner than it takes to count to twenty, a portion of the angels violently disturbed the lowest of your elements. The rest remained. And they, with such rejoicing, began the office you can see, that they never desert their circling contemplation. The fall had its beginning in the cursed pride of the one you saw, held and constrained by all of the world's weights. Those whom you see in heaven here were modestly aware that they were ready for intelligence so vast because of that good which had made them. Through this. Through this, their vision was exalted with illuminating grace and with their merit, so that their will is constant and intact."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk/transcript/#seg-0532",
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      "start": 13592.89,
      "end": 13643.27,
      "time_label": "3:46:32",
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      "text": "I would not have you doubt, but have you know surely that there is merit in receiving grace measured by the longing to receive it. By now, if you have taken in my words, you need no other aid to contemplate much in regard to this consistory. But since on earth throughout your schools they teach that it is in the nature of angels to understand, to recollect, to will, I shall say more, so that you may see clearly the truth that there below has been confused by teaching that is so ambiguous. These beings, since they first were gladdened by the face of God, from which no thing is hidden, have never turned their vision from that face, so that their sight is never intercepted by a new object, and they have no need to recollect an interrupted concept."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #4 (Thursday, June 18 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "3:47:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Okay, so no need to recollect an interrupted concept just means they have no recollection, no memory of anything, okay? Does that make sense to you guys? No imagination, no memory, just pure devotion, obedience to God. Okay, keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "time_label": "3:47:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "So that below, though not asleep, men dream, speaking in good faith or in bad, the last, however, merits greater blame and shame. Below, you do not follow one so path as you do. If you follow God, you do not follow a path like a man who was called up by God and ended Do you believe me? Hospice, I don't believe you. Well, I'd love to be like you. No, you're going to be. He's going to love me. That's not part of it. And he's going to love you. He's going to love you. He's going to love you again. It's not going to happen, Whitey. But that's not part of it. He's going to love you. speak one says that to prevent the sun from reaching below the moon when christ was crucified moved back along the zodiac so as to interpose itself who says so lies for sunlight hid itself not only jews but spaniards"
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      "text": "indians too saw that eclipse such fables shouted through the year from pulpits some here some there outnumber even all the lapos and the bindos florence has so that the wretched sheep in ignorance return from pasture having fed on wind but to be blind to harm does not excuse them christ did not say to his first company go and preach idle stories to the world but he gave them the teaching that is truth and truth alone was sounded when they spoke and thus to battle to engage in the and kindle faith the gospel served them as both shield and lance but now men go to preach with jests and jeers and just as long as they can raise a laugh the cow puffs up and nothing more is asked but such a bird nests in that cow that if people saw it they would recognize as lies the pardons in which they confide pardons through which"
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      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "text": "the world's credulity increases so that people throng to every indulgence backed by no authority and no authority and this allows the antonines to fatten their pigs and others too more piggish still who pay with counterfeit illegal tender but since we have digressed enough turn back your eyes now to the way that is direct our time is short so too must be our path the number of these angels is so great that there has never been a mortal speech or mortal thought that named a sum so deep and if you look at that which is revealed by daniel you'll see that there has never been a mortal speech or mortal thought that named a sum so deep and if you look at that which is revealed by daniel you'll see that while he mentions thousands it here Ce complimentary there Ce complimentary used the same including the first light le me is ready to mark move"
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    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "to the temple to disc le me is ready to mark move to the temple to disc employ disabilities are employ disabilities are national national many mirrors which divide its light but as before its own self still is one okay all right so so"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-dsfmyue7dkk",
      "title": "Faith Makes Truth Real And Hope Risks Exile",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "we'll just finish with candle 29 then uh on saturday we break tomorrow guys okay we break tomorrow um and then we come back on saturday and then we just plow through okay um so on saturday we'll finish the line comedy uh paradise okay so we'll look at canos 30 31 32 33 um so what features is doing here is he's contrasting the perfection of the angels with the imperfection of the humans okay and um um do you guys want to be an angel i don't think anyone anyone who reads this is like i want to be an angel now okay because it seems to me that the life of an angel is red it has an effect on my life and that's that's why it's on saturday the 21st century really really boring right it's perfect nothing ever changes and beatrice you know she's sort of like complaining about how stupid humans are i don't"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "know how we're just screwing up we don't really get anything but i don't think anyone uh who reads this comes with the impression like you know what i should strive to be an angel okay so how can we explain this paradox beatrice is um saying how angels are perfect and how angels can do no wrong um she is reiterating classical catholic theology but when we read this our instinct is our intuition is like hmm i'd rather be human thank you very much what's going on here uh yes"
    },
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      "text": "yeah i feel confused because lucifer you know satan who is also the angel of god right so if in denting's case it means you do not always devoted to god holy it means you have to have your own awareness of consciousness so do you think that you believe that the satan is is right because satan is just have their own wilderness you know you know this is a really interesting"
    },
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      "text": "question right because he does mention that there is one angel who defied god who turned away from god and as a result he was banished to hell and what's and this is interesting because what's what what's going to happen is that milton john milton is going to read this and he's going to come with paradise laws which is in many ways a celebration of satan and his rebellion okay so um divine comedy is going to inspire uh milton's paradise laws but when we read inferno what we will really recognize is that there's nothing glorious in the rebellion of satan okay because here we're seeing angels without consciousness without free will but when we actually meet satan lucifer in inferno he's the same way he has no consciousness he has no free will he has no agency okay so it's almost like and this is like really really interesting to think about it's almost like he"
    },
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      "text": "designed angels god designed angels to lack agency to lack free will to lack imagination and design humans to be the opposite okay so who does god love more humans okay and so so again this is so revolutionary to think about how angels are the ones who serve god who are the ones by god god has to deal with them every single day but god who he truly loves are we fallen silly stupid mortals okay um and again it's um um god did not give the angels free will he gave humans free will and so that just proves that god loves us more okay okay does it make"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "sense you guys all right any other yes i mean back to the an earlier several classes ago and there was an analogy about the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the game of the master and the game players right so can i take this to be like god didn't intend for his his admins his angels to to to be part of this game right the game or rather than whatever you did however the universe is designed for it was designed for the generation of love and imagination by the human beings the human players yeah you know i i think that's correct i i think"
    },
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      "text": "the way to understand this is that um god in his perfection is that he is perfect being perfect and love Herr sir so the logic behind that logic when god accepts love from himself his sixteenißes has a problem which is that perfection is imperfection right and so the only way to complete himself the only way to know himself the only way to extend himself is by creating humans in his image and humans are imperfect but that is our perfection because with our clumsiness or silliness yet our longing for god we will somehow extend the imagination of the universe we will extend the boundaries of the universe and let god know himself more complete himself more okay does that make sense okay so again this is like revolutionary at this time because augustine right is preaching that we are sinful we are proud we're evil and what donnie is saying is that no we are the"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:56:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "most superior beings in the world in the universe okay we are even higher in elevation than god okay and then when we read the end of divine comedy and this is like what makes dante so shocking is that dante is going to show us he's superior to god okay um he's not better than god but he has an imagination which allows him to do things god cannot do so that is the shocking end towards the divine comedy um okay does that make sense all right yeah uh like the ending is just so shocking so weird it and again like i hate to say this but it's shocking for us living in the year 2026 but imagine in the year 1300 okay okay you and how he's able to do this faith hope and love okay so he is the manifestation he's the total expression of what it means to have faith love and hope and"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "as a result that's why he was chosen to go to heaven like mary like jesus okay okay any more any more questions okay uh well thank you so much for for for for today i mean uh just being able to hear dante okay it's it's it's it's the voice that makes this divine right the sound that makes this truly divine and that's why we call this divine comedy okay so thank you very much uh we will continue this saturday okay"
    },
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      "start": 3.86,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, good morning. So the live stream is on. So, um, yesterday, you had a chance to ask questions about the previous class, and that went very well. So I want to thank you for asking a great question. You went back, you reviewed what we learned, and you matched our ideas with the text, and you recognize that there's a sentence, right, which is you shoot the arrow, it lands first, then it flies, then it is released from the bow, right? That's a great question. And then Carol had a great response, because she's actually studying this text. And so this is exactly the sort of interaction that I want in the seminar, where you guys are really analyzing the text critically, and this is forcing us to think deeper about the meaning of the text. Okay, and this is exactly, you know, what Yale tries to achieve in its seminars back in New Haven. So let's begin with questions."
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      "text": "Questions from yesterday. You had a chance to go back and review the text. Again, it's really important that you guys spend time rereading the text to make sure you understand what's going on, okay? So any questions from yesterday that you had? Yes."
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      "text": "You need to press on for other people to hear."
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      "text": "So, like, in Canto 6, there is, like, this narrative of Rome's history. And something that really confused me is actually a historical reference. So, okay. So it said, starting when..."
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      "text": "Where do you see the line?"
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      "text": "On the... Oh. Her version doesn't have the line."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Oh. Let's try to use one version, okay? As you can see, this is the minimum version of the Columbia website. Okay? Let's just use that, guys. So that we are aligned."
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      "text": "The problem is I put metal bomb on both sides while only the Italian version is numbered. Only the Italian version is numbered. They're on the same line. Yeah, yeah, I know. So, like, I was talking about line 36. When Pallas died, that it might gain a kingdom. So, according to my understanding, Pallas... The story of Pallas and Athena is a very Greek story. And it doesn't have, like, much... Relevance to the Roman Empire. It's a very personal Athena story. So what does this have to do with the history?"
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      "text": "Yeah, that's a great question. Does anyone know the answer? It's actually a very hard question. So I want to thank you for pointing this out. So Pallas and Athena were twins, right? And Athena had to kill Pallas in order to live. The story of the founding of Rome is that Romulus and Remus were twins. And they grew up together. And they rose up together. And they loved each other. And then after they defeated, like, an evil uncle, they were assigned a plot of land, which became modern -day Rome. The two go to Rome, and they decide we can't rule Rome as twins. One of us has to be the king. The other has to go away. And so they have this competition. This competition leads to a war where Romulus kills Remus. Okay? And this is interesting because this is actually a very common archetype in something called Proto -Indo -European mythology. Proto -Indo -European mythology, some of you may know, is the basis for European culture."
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      "text": "Okay? So... The archaeologists believe that the Proto -Indo -Europeans lived in the steppes of modern -day Ukraine. And they spread around the world to Europe, to India, to Iran. And they really conquered most of the world. And they did so with a certain mythology of conquest. Okay? And at the very basis of this mythology is that... You must kill the person you love. You must kill your twin in order to climb to power. And this is what it refers to. All right? So what Donny is doing... What he does throughout the Divine Comedy, which is very confusing for people, is that he tends to combine myths together. Okay? So you have the myth of Pallas and Athena. What he's saying is that that refers to the myth of Romulus and Remus. Right? Because we all know... Because in this context... Okay?"
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      "text": "This is the 14th century. Obviously, you have to be very well educated to read Dante. So everyone knows the mythology of Romulus and Remus. And then what Dante does in this one line is... It also reminds us of the legend of Pallas and Athena. Okay? Does that make sense?"
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      "text": "A follow -up question. Because according to my understanding and according to Wikipedia... Which is not a credible source, but it's valuable for basic understanding... Pallas and Athena were not in direct opposition. They were not fighting over a territory. Athena loved Pallas and accidentally killed her. So while the theme of killing a twin is the same, I don't see how this has to do with a territorial dispute."
    },
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      "text": "Okay. So again, the idea is that... You must kill someone you love in order to fully become yourself. Okay? So that's what poetry is. Poetry presents two ideas that may not be interrelated. It forces you to use your imagination in order to relate the two things. You're absolutely right. Pallas and Athena, Romulus and Remus... I didn't see the connection. And what Dante is doing is... By putting them together with the grammar, it forces you to see the connection. Okay? What is a simile? A simile is an unseen connection. Right? The sky is a snail. Okay. All right. The sky and snail... They have nothing to do with each other. But because I put these two together, it activates... Excites your imagination to see the connection. Okay? That's what poetry is. Does that make sense? Okay. All right. Can I add something? Yes. Thank you, Carol. Yes. Thank you."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Thank you so much for the questions. I want to preface today, it's our third day, and say that I've been really grateful for the open and candid dialogues and questionings we've had because this may not be happening elsewhere in the world. That's one. So, kudos to all of you. Second, I was very happy to hear from one of you this morning who said, I love you. I love the music because I played some music before class started this morning and it was actually Jack Johnson, who someone else said was from his college days. The reason I played some music is because I want to read a really short portion of his lyrics to you and kind of give you a glimpse of how I think it might be helpful to be approaching Dante. Okay. And poetry and beautiful works of art in general. So, this is from 20 years ago, upside down, Jack Johnson. Who's to say what's impossible?"
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      "start": 520.24,
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      "text": "Well, they forgot this world keeps spinning and with each new day, I can feel a change in everything. And as the surface breaks, reflections fade, and in some ways, they remain the same. And as my mind begins to spread its wings, there's no stopping curiosity. So, I hope to be hearing from more and more of you, hear that you're curious, hear that you're adding to the conversation, even despite thinking that you may disagree amongst yourself, but that's part of the leap of faith that John talked about yesterday. So, thank you."
    },
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      "text": "Well, thank you, Carol. Absolutely. And as you can see, what's happening is that across time, across space, different artists, whether they're poets, they're musicians, they're trying to convey the same message. So, you have to think it might be from the same source, right? And that's what Dante is trying to explain in Divine Comedy. There is a common source. And from this common source, we can generate our creativity. Okay. Any other questions from last class before I begin? Yes, thank you."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "So, I don't have a question related to like the wording, but I was just rereading this and looking at the art in like the digital Dante. And something striking about Beatrice is that she actually looks kind of masculine. So, I've been to like those art museums where they have like medieval galleries, and I think that the women did look different. So, they had like veils and they were wearing dresses. But Beatrice here, at least on the digital Dante website, doesn't really look like a girl. So, like, is this, was this like purposeful in a way or something?"
    },
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      "text": "What is, okay, I don't know enough about Renaissance art to comment, okay? But let's imagine what's happening. Okay. So, last, yesterday, we discussed how Dante is able to conceive the divine comedy, okay? And so, Dante is starting off with a framework that enables him to construct the divine comedy, okay? So, think of this as the blueprint of a scaffolding that allows you to slowly visualize the entire building. This framework must be the dialogue between Dante. And Beatrice. Okay. Does that make sense? Okay. So, even from an early age, he knows Beatrice. He falls in love with Beatrice. They don't really, but they really don't know that each other. And so, what happens is that he imagines Beatrice as his basically imaginary best friend. Or, and in the future, as his lover. Okay. Now, the problem with this is you don't know that. You don't know enough about Beatrice in order to make Beatrice a fully fleshed out character."
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      "text": "So, what happens is Beatrice becomes your alter ego, okay? It becomes like a yin -yang dynamic, right? Where you are implanting your feminine aspects onto Beatrice. And so, in other words, Beatrice doesn't really exist as a real person. Beatrice is just Dante's twin, basically."
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      "text": "So, like a reflection of Dante that's like higher and more divine. Okay."
    },
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      "text": "It's actually much more complicated than that. Which is that you study this occult esotericism, this mysticism. What they believe is that we are a reflection of God. And God is always a dual nature. Both a masculine and a feminine. Okay. So, within us, there's always a masculine and a feminine. So, what Dante has done is basically is split himself into two. He's Dante the masculine and Beatrice the feminine. Okay. So, again, I don't know. But what I think if I'm a painter, I'm an artist, and I recognize this. What I'm trying to do is show that Beatrice is just an alter ego of Dante. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. And again, I'm just speculating. Okay. I'm just using my imagination as to what has happened. Because I'm not the artist. Okay. I don't know what's going on. But this is really important for you guys to appreciate that the process of creativity, the process"
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      "text": "of imagination requires you to recognize your dual self, split yourself off, and have a dialogue within yourself. That becomes the basis for the creation of whatever art you create, whether it's a painting, or a poem, or even a building. Okay. And this is usually how the creative process works. Okay. Any more questions?"
    },
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      "text": "Got one. So, we expanded our idea of vows. And I was trying to think about... Picarda made a vow in the nunnery to God. I was trying to think of... Picarda's brother seemed to make a vow on the battlefield. No, no, no. We just imagine that. Oh, we just imagine. We don't know. But like a person could just say, if this happens, then I swear to God, something, something. And that's a vow. I was wondering what other vows a person would make, a common person, just in everyday. And so, I could think of like marriage vows as a simple one. Baptismal vows might be made for you on your behalf, because Anabaptists don't exist. And so, what other vows might occur in everyday society that you're breaking? Because you don't have to just walk around going, I swear to God, if I get an A, I'm going to do X, Y, Z."
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      "text": "Okay. Yeah, that's a really interesting question. So, what I will say is that... What Donnie will say is, to be fully human, you must get into the habit of making vows to yourself. Okay? Because that ultimately is what motivates you, what drives you to a higher good. Right? Making a vow means being able to have faith. Hope in the future and loving yourself and having faith in the universe. Okay? So, these are three ideas that we'll talk a lot about for the next two days. Hope, love, and faith. So, making a vow, it's an expression of hope, love, and faith. So, you should be doing this every single day. Okay? Okay. Any more questions? Okay. All right. So... So, I want to begin class by talking about why we're here. Okay? So, I want to talk about two basic principles. The first principle is, what is our mission? Okay? And our mission is to share Dante with the world."
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 1001.56,
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      "time_label": "16:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay? So, the construction of this class... The structure of this class, it's unique. Because there are three things that make this class different from others in the world. Okay? First of all, I hate to say this, but it's free, guys. All right? And this has to do with the generosity of Carol, who's... And me as well, because I'm teaching this for free. But this is an amazing space. People online cannot see this, but this is... But we are really on top of Beijing. You know? This is a panoramic view of Beijing. For those of you who are in Beijing for the first time, I'm sure this is an extremely impressive view. So, first of all, it's free. Okay? You guys are here. I mean, like, I know some of you have flown from far away, but basically, it's a free class. Okay? That's number one. Number two is the diversity of the students in this class."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 1060.4,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "So, again, people at home don't see it. They don't see this. But we have students from all age groups. Okay? We have adults. We have even a ninth grader, believe it or not. We also have people from different cultures, from different countries who've come a long way. Okay? So, just the diversity of this class, it's also unique. Right? And the third thing is that we are live streaming everything we do. Okay? Nothing is rehearsed. If I say something stupid, it's going to live forever online. Okay? So, the question then is, why is the class constructed this way? It's free. It's diverse. And it's being live streamed. And the reason why is that as a group, we are trying to prove to the world that anyone anywhere can love Dante. Okay? Regardless of your culture. Regardless of your age. You can love Dante. Dante speaks to you individually. And together, we're trying to show the world that anyone can read and love Dante."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 1139.38,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "And give them the tools and the thought processes in order to fully understand Dante. And set everyone on that journey. I hope that regardless of where you are. Whether you're in Africa or South America or even the Arctic. Who knows? But this class will inspire you to partake in your own journey. And this class will give you all the tools you need in order to fully appreciate Dante. So, our mission here is to share Dante with the world. Okay? It is an act of love. It is an act of faith. It is an act of hope. And we have to remember that. That is our central mission. In order to achieve the central mission, you yourselves must, in this room, okay? Must fully engage Dante. And fully put your heart into Dante. And to do that, you have to remember how to truly understand Dante."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
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      "start": 1204.06,
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      "time_label": "20:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "And the trick is this. Okay? It is to learn Dante. So that you... May teach it as an act of love."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "UNKNOWN",
      "text": "Okay?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 1228.23,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "So, this is the key. If you truly want to understand Dante, you have to read and learn Dante. And imagine that you're doing so, so that one day you can teach it to someone that you truly love as an act of love. Alright? So, every day. After class. You should go home and visualize that one day you can have your own classroom with your own students. Or you can have your own children. Or you could be talking to your mother over the dinner table. Or you could be talking to your best friend. It doesn't matter. Okay? But imagine yourself like Dante in heaven with Beatrice. And what are they doing? They are debating each other. They're learning together. They're sharing with each other. That is the true act of love. Okay? So, I guarantee you. You put yourself in the frame of mind that I am here today so that tomorrow I can share Dante with someone I love as an act of love."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 1300.84,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "You will truly understand Dante. Okay? So, these are the two things I want you to keep in mind. Our mission here in this classroom. Is to co -create together a classroom so that everyone in the world can listen in and love Dante. We are spreading Dante throughout the world. That is our central mission. Nothing else comes before this. And second, if you are truly to understand Dante. If you are truly to read the Divine Comedy and understand what's going on. You have to commit yourself to loving someone and sharing Dante. With that person. It could be anyone. It could be your mother. It could be your brother. It could be your student. It doesn't matter. But it has to be a real person, guys. Okay? Alright? Having said that. I want to explain why it's important to share Dante with the world. Okay? Alright."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0033",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=1369s",
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      "start": 1369.37,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "So, let's go to the year 1300. In the year 1300, there are many places in the world. Okay? In the Middle East, there's something called the Islamic Golden Age. Okay? Islam. Islamic Golden Age. In China and in Asia, there is the Pax Mongolica. The Mongols are in charge. In Central America, you have the Mayans. Okay? And in Europe, you have medieval Europe. You guys can't appreciate this. But in the year 1300, medieval Europe was essentially a shithole. Okay? It was the worst place in the world to be. Excuse me? Basically, the Dark Ages. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0034",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=1427s",
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      "start": 1427.06,
      "end": 1452.78,
      "time_label": "23:47",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "I find that a very reductionist view, to be honest. Like, a lot of people say bad things about the Middle Ages. I agree. Middle Ages, bad place to be compared to now. Compared to the Renaissance. But we have to admit that the Middle Ages were the foundation. For what became the Renaissance. And the Renaissance did not change things much for the average person. It changed things a lot for the intellectuals and for the high class people. I think that's important to keep in mind."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0035",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=1452s",
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      "source_ref": "video:predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw@transcript:v1#seg-0035",
      "start": 1452.86,
      "end": 1511.26,
      "time_label": "24:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. So I'm trying to make a point here. Okay? The point is that in the year 1300, if you were a Mayan and you visited Europe, if you were living in Baghdad and you visited Europe, if you were living in China and you visited Europe, you would think this place is a shithole. Okay? You would think this place is hopeless. These people are barbarians. All they do is kill each other. There is censorship. There is no learning. It's all anti -learning, anti -intellectual. But at the same time, 20 years in the future, there's a Renaissance, which then leads to the Second Revolution, the Enlightenment, the Age of Conquest, where Europe will span out and conquer everyone. Okay? All right? So the question is, how did this happen? Why? Why is it in the year 1300 you go there and you think these people are completely hopeless? Right? It's like basically like us... I hate to"
    },
    {
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0036",
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      "start": 1511.26,
      "end": 1590.443,
      "time_label": "25:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "say this, but it's like basically us going to the Middle East right now and saying, oh my God, this place is hopeless. They're all killing each other. There's endless war. They can't agree on anything. They are anti -learning, anti -intellectual. This place is completely hopeless. How was it possible that 20 years later, you would... You would have the Renaissance, you have this emergence of Europe? And my answer is Dante. Okay? It is because of what Dante did, because of the Divine Comedy, that Europe would then go on to expand itself, to change itself. And then the question then is, okay, how is Dante able to fundamentally change the character of the Europeans? And it's the Divine Comedy. And what I will show you is that he places three things before all others. Okay? He fundamentally reimagines what it means to be human by placing three virtues above all else. They, of course, are faith, hope, love."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1590.443,
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      "text": "Now, you think to yourself, wait a minute. Here, this is just the Christian virtues. Okay? The only difference is, okay, back then, you had faith, hope, and then it was charity. So, what's the big deal here? The big deal is how Dante will come to define these terms. Okay? Divine Comedy fundamentally is trying to show you what these ideas really mean. So, for Dante, faith is the belief. And the understanding of the nature of God. Right? Faith is to understand that God is, first and foremost, love. And God is not this vengeful, spiteful entity, but this all -forgiving, all -generous, all -loving source. Okay? That is what the faith is. Second is the idea of hope. The idea of hope is that by making vows, you can create for yourself your own future that you imagine it to be. Okay? So, hope is fundamentally not a passive thing where you pray to God, hope"
    },
    {
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      "text": "God gives it to you, but you actively imagine yourself, and then God co -creates with you. And love, for Dante, is the unifying force of the universe. It is what God is. It is what connects us to each other. Okay? Love is about connection. Now, then the question then is, okay, if this is what Dante said, how is this different from the Catholic Church or what Paul said? Okay. And so, what Dante says is this. For faith, hope, and love to exist in the world, it has to be an active act of imagination. Okay? Do you understand? These things don't exist by themselves. They're not given to us by God. It is imagined by us in this world. Okay? And what allows for the imagination to take place is poetry, which, of course, is divine comedy. So, imagine divine comedy as really the big bang. Of Western civilization. Okay? It is what starts Marjorie, because it enables us to imagine faith, love, and hope."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1765.14,
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      "text": "All right? So, for people at this time, in the Middle Ages, this is a revolution. We don't think this is a big deal now, because we live in a world created by Dante. But before Dante, before the Big Bang, people imagined these things as fundamentally about obedience. Okay? Just obey authority. Obey the church. Obey the priest. And you'll be good. That is what faith, love, and hope is. Okay? Now, what's interesting is that this idea, that everything is based on obedience, also comes from poetry. But it is Virgil. Okay? The Iniat. And this is something we'll discuss later on. Okay? Next week. All right. Do you understand? So, what I'm trying to tell you is that at the fundamental core of the universe is a spiritual war between two poets, Virgil and Dante. Virgil, for his poetry, makes us believe that through obedience, we can achieve faith, hope, and love."
    },
    {
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      "start": 1841.9,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "But what Dante is doing with the line comedy is arguing that, no, it must be for our imagination. Imagination in which we are able to achieve faith, love, and hope. Okay? So, this is basically the framework for this class. This is the grand thesis I will present to you as we go along. Okay? These next few days, we'll study why faith, hope, and love are important and how Dante will conceptualize this. And then starting after the break, we will go into this larger cosmic war between Virgil and Dante to reimagine humanity. All right? So, that's the plan. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "So, my first question has to do with the very Eurocentric nature of this so -called cosmic war. So, Virgil and Dante are both Europeans, and I think it might be more appropriate to say that this is a war fought on the European thought scape rather than across the entire cosmos. And the second part is I'm a little bit confused when you're talking about obedience. So, you said that Dante speaks about obedience. He speaks against obedience, but he speaks for the obedience of vows and obedience to God. So, how is that different?"
    },
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      "text": "Okay. So, let me answer your second question first. Okay? Okay. So, it's really a difference between how you perceive your role in the world. Are you an active participant in the world? Are you a passive participant in the world? According to Virgil, according to the Catholic Church... I should also point out that... Okay. So, this idea of obedience comes from two major theologians of the Catholic Church. They, of course, are Paul and Augustine, okay? Paul, who is a founder of the Catholic Church, and Augustine, who is the major theologian of the Catholic Church, who will systemize the teachings of Paul, okay? But they get the ideas from Virgil, all right? So, what Augustine teaches people that is very important is that because of the original sin, because of our disobedience from God, humans are inherently evil. If you're inherently evil, you should probably not do too many things, okay? Because all you do is create more evil in the world."
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      "text": "Therefore, you should just obey, and if you obey and you avoid sin, that is the fastest path to heaven. Okay? Does that make sense? Just obedience, do what the church tells you, and you will do good in the world, or you will not do evil in the world. And then you will ascend to heaven, okay? So, it's a very fatalistic, very pessimistic worldview, okay? So, that's a major difference. Yes?"
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      "text": "Can I add to this? I actually was rereading and researching last night City of God by Augustine, and he would say that because of the fall—let me pull up my notes—because of the fall, Jesus was the only perfect person because Adam was exiled from the Garden of Edom. Adam's sin essentially damaged humanity. That's right. And the damage itself was inherited by all the descendants of Adam's through the mechanism of semen. Right? And it's this concept of every human has sexual desire almost as a punishment. And even the people, even the saints and the most holy people of all time who denied themselves, they would be—what do you call it? Celibate. They're denying themselves sexual desire. Augustine calls this fake. He is not impressed with this at all. And he would say, like, it's a person who's, like, fasting. They still—they're still hungry, right? And it's that hunger, that desire that's the—that you cannot fake. It's still there, right?"
    },
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      "text": "And so, the greatest saint and the worst criminal are all equally fallen before God. Yes, exactly."
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      "text": "So, as—so, you can appreciate this is what's being taught at this time, right? We are just completely hopeless. We are beyond salvation. We are just beyond redemption. Just don't cause any trouble, guys. Just obey. And then—and then when you die, maybe God will save you, okay? So, it's a very pessimistic, very fatalistic viewpoint. But when you read it on comedy, it's very optimistic. It's very hopeful, okay? It's—it's just emits love, okay? So, thank you so much for that, okay? All right, great. All right, so let me answer the second question, which is, Virgil and Dante are European. And so, therefore, they don't speak for all of humanity. Okay. So, I'm going to get into a lot of trouble for saying this, but I don't perceive poetry as culturally located, okay? I think poetry is universal. The entire point of teaching Dante in Beijing in the year 2026 to mostly Chinese students, from different countries. Age groups, high school, university, adults, is to prove the universality of Dante, right?"
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      "text": "So if Dante is only European, why is it that we have students from China who are really focused on Dante, who find inspiration in Dante? Why is it that if culture really matters that much? How are we able to create this classroom? Could you answer that?"
    },
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      "text": "Well, what I'm saying is not that they are limited to Europe. I'm saying that they are only representative of Europe. So it's like—it's like there are so many types of poetry out there, and you're basically saying that these two are the archetypes. These two are the big bads. These two are the big bads fighting out against each other. I'm saying there might be better archetypes out there. There might be different archetypes out there also fighting it out. I'm saying you didn't—"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "But like rather than just saying there might be, give me an example."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "I'm not sure I could pronounce the name, but for example, like in India, there are different types of poetry and holy scripture, and one of these I remember is called the Aranyaka, and they're about the forest. They're about the primal nature of man. So instead of talking about obedience versus disobedience, maybe we can talk about civilization vs. primal nature of man. I'm just saying these are different perspectives that Virgil and Dante do not encapsulate."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so I don't know enough about Indian poetry to comment, okay? But the point I'm trying to make is this. In this classroom, we are making certain assumptions. We are assuming the universality of Dante, meaning Dante can speak to everyone of all cultures of all ages, across all ages. Across all time, okay? And you need that sort of arrogance or sense of supremacy in order to fully appreciate Dante. Okay? So I understand, yes, there must be other great works of literature out there. Show it to me, okay, rather than tell me you're just being ignorant, you're just being racist, show me. Okay? Take it upon yourself to learn this stuff and share it with the world. I would love to be proven wrong about Dante. I think Dante's the greatest poet in the world. I think Dante speaks for everyone. I think Dante is universal. I think it doesn't matter if you are Chinese, or if you are Indian, or if you are anyone, okay?"
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      "text": "You will love Dante if you make the effort to appreciate Dante, and I don't think anyone else compares to Dante. Okay? I make this arrogant statement, and if you say you are wrong, then take the time, as I've taken the time to learn Dante, and show me another poet who is just as worthy to learn as Dante."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "I'm not saying that you're racist. I'm not saying any of these things. I don't know why you arrived at the conclusion. I am saying that it is part of our academic responsibility to limit ourselves as researchers to what we know and what we do not. And I agree with you. You are making a very arrogant statement, and perhaps that statement has a place in this class. But my point is, it is part of your academic responsibility to limit the scope of that statement."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, this is not an arrogant classroom, okay? This is not designed to be an arrogant classroom. I already said what our two missions are, right? Share Dante with the world, right? Why do I share Dante with the world? Because I think that in this time and age, when there is war, when there is hopelessness, when there is conflict, I believe that resummoning Dante to this world, spreading Dante to this world, will give humanity hope. That's what I fundamentally believe. That's what I think our mission is, okay? Not to just share Dante with the world, but to resummon Dante physically into our world with our imagination. Okay? So that Dante can help save the world from whatever we're doing, okay? So keep in mind, guys, this is the point of why we're here, to share Dante with the world. That's the primary mission. Everything must follow from this mission. If you're like, no, I want to learn Dante academically, there are tons of Dante academic courses, right?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Carol, do you know if you can introduce this course online? Did we not say this?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "This is not a course. Okay. It's not an academic program. There's, for example, an Open也 course by a professor on Dante in translation. You can look for many of these."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. Do you understand? That's why I have to emphasize, okay? There is a mission here. Let's stick to the mission. If you don't agree with the mission, then this course is probably not for you. Okay. So it's not a course. Carol, but this setup, okay, or this platform, okay, is not for you, okay? We are here to truly learn to love Dante so that we may share it with others, okay? Any more questions before we begin? Okay, so what we're going to do now is we're going to jump ahead. We're going to skip around because I want to show to you, all right, how Dante is going to recreate the idea of humanity, all right? So first thing is we're going to go to Canto 11, Canto 11, okay? So what's happening is that Beatrice and Dante are traveling through the cosmos, right? And we're going to skip around, not because the other candles are not important."
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      "text": "It's just I don't have, as I mentioned, yesterday, I don't have the full knowledge to fully interpret the other cantos. But I want to focus on Cantos 11 and 12 this morning. So what's happening is that Dante will meet two individuals. The first individual is Thomas Aquinas, who is only 2nd Augustine. So Thomas Aquinas is the second most famous Catholic theologian in the world. And what is important is that he is going to try to reconcile classical Greek philosophy with the Christian faith, okay? And he's really the first to attempt this. This is being done throughout the world in the Islamic Golden Age. But again, at this time, Europe is extremely ignorant and isolated from the rest of the world. And Thomas Aquinas is... He's going to change that by bringing Israelian thought back into Christian theology, okay? So that's Thomas Aquinas. Thomas Aquinas is part of an order called the Dominicans, okay?"
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      "text": "The Dominicans are essentially the Jesuits, the pre -Jesuits. And these are people who are dedicated to learning and education. And they are doing this in order to better enforce Christian orthodoxy, for example. So that's the Dominicans. And then in Kindle 12, we will meet Bonaventure, who is part of an order called the Franciscan Order, okay? The Franciscan Order was founded by Francis Assisi, who made a vow to poverty. And this is very similar to Jesus, right? Jesus, as we discussed yesterday, he founded a movement called the Poor. And they made a vow to poverty. And so St. Francis also made a vow to poverty. The problem with both orders is they started out great, okay? Their founders were visionary. They really brought hope to the world. I mean, the Catholic Church at this time was being criticized for corruption, for engaging in worldly affairs. And these two movements seemed the answer. They were reform movements."
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      "text": "They were reform movements. They were movements that seemed to bring hope to Europe. But ultimately, both fail, okay? So what Dante wants to figure out is why is it that these two movements, which started out great, the Dominicans with their selfless pursuit of knowledge and the Franciscans with their selfless pursuit of spirituality, why did they fail? Okay? That's a question before us. All right. So can we read Carol, please? Sure. This is Canto 11, okay?"
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      "text": "Paradise, Canto 11. Oh, senseless cares of mortals, how deceiving are syllogistic reasonings that bring your wings to flight so low to earthly things. One studied law and won the aphorisms of the physicians. One was set on priesthood and won through force or fraud on rulership. One meant to plunder, one to politic, one labored, tangled in delights of flesh, and one was fully bent on indolence."
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      "text": "Okay. So here, Dante is criticizing academic studies, right? Okay? What is his concern about academic studies at this time? What does he mean? Anyone?"
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      "text": "Yes? They all have ulterior motives."
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      "text": "Good. Yes."
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      "text": "They focus too much on the material and not the spiritual."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, exactly. Okay? So the idea is syllogistic reasonings, okay? Rather than use your mind to pursue God and the truth. Yes? Did you have a question?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "No, no. I was trying to answer your question, too. So, like, I'm reminded of something in Crusader Kings, the game. Like, you can have your priest justify your claim to a plot of enemy land through theology. So what he's saying here, how I understand it, is that he's saying that, you know, you're talking about theology is not studying for its own sake, but to amass power."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Exactly. Okay? That's what everyone agrees on, right? This is a problem with theology, with academics at this point in history. Quite honestly, it's no different today, by the way. But he points out this is a real problem. Okay? Can you keep on going?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 10. Verse 10. Verse 10. Verse 10. things was in the height of heaven with beatrice so gloriously welcomed after each of those spirits had returned to that place in the ring where it had been it halted like a candle in its stand and from within the splendor that had spoken to me before i heard him as he smiled become more"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "radiant more pure begin so he of course is thomas aquinas all right who will explain um the franciscan order okay so this is weird because uh thomas aquinas is of the of the dominican order but he will explain the glories of the franciscan order now what he will do is he will criticize his own order and then the next counter will meet another guy bonaventure who is of the franciscan order praise the dominican order and then he criticism on his own order okay all right uh keep on going verse 19"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "even as i as i grow bright within its rays so as i gaze at the eternal light i can perceive your thoughts and see their cause you're in doubt you want an explanation in language that is open and expanded so clear that it contents your understanding of two points where i said they fatten well and where i said no other ever rose and here one has to make a clear distinction okay so um"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "so we skip the so we skip the head but thomas aquinas already is having a conversation with dante and they found them well office obviously refers to corruption in the um catholic church okay so he's trying to explain uh how this happened okay keep on going okay line 28"
    },
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      "text": "the providence that rules the world with wisdom so fathomless that creatures inter likes intellects are vanquished and can never probe its death depth so that the bride of him who was for him confided in the sickest of men that crianças care to not willeth men of the flat tail of man that are the lambs of death equivalent of her effigies and different things to all those of death decreed on them. loud cries had wed her with his blessed blood might meet her love with more fidelity and more assurance in herself on her behalf commanded that there be two princes one on this side one on that"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "side as her guide okay so this is most these are the two most important tercets of this canto okay so let's try to unpack this does anyone know what the bride of jesus is the bride of god who what"
    },
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      "text": "is the bride of god um well if i was a heretic i would say mary magdalene"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "no guys it's a catholic church right the bride of god yeah yeah okay that's a heretic all right the bride of god is the catholic church okay so how's how's the catholic church founded it was founded uh for the sacrifice of jesus right so after jesus was crucified the catholic church came into being in order to continue jesus mission on earth right so the catholic church made a vow to god that we will be forever mary and i will forever promote your message in the world okay and in order to achieve this uh what will happen is they will uh give rise to two princes to ensure that the mission continues despite the corruption and the decay of the catholic church and these two princes are saint francis will found the franciscan order who are devoted to poverty and then dominic who founded the dominican order who will promote themselves uh who will dedicate themselves"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "to learning as well as promoting um catholic orthodoxy throughout europe okay these are the ones who are responsible to squash all heresies okay all right so this is the origins of the catholic church keep on going verse 37 one prince was all seraphic"
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      "text": "in his order the other for his wisdom had possessed the splendor of cherubic light on earth"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "so the um so the sheriff and the sure room are two orders of angels okay so the angels have taken possession of these two individuals francis and dominic and it's the angels who will guide them"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "in their mission okay verse 40 i shall devote my tail to one because in praising either prince one praises both the labors of the two were toward one goal okay so he's going to talk about francis okay keep on going verse 43 between tapino's stream and that which flows down from the hill the blessed ubaldo chose from a high peak there hangs a fertile slope from there perugia feels both heat and cold at portasole while behind its sorrow nocera and gualdo under their hard yoke from this hillside where it abates its rise a sun was born into the world much like this sun when it is climbing from the ganges therefore let him who names this site not say ashesi which would be to say too little but orient if he would name it rightly that sun was not yet very distant from his rising when he caused the earth to take some comfort from"
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      "date_label": "2026-06-17, day precision",
      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0081",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=3219s",
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      "start": 3219.34,
      "end": 3253.16,
      "time_label": "53:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "his mighty influence for even as a youth he ran to war against his father on behalf of her the lady unto whom just as to death none willingly unlocks the door before his spiritual court at quorum patre he wed her day by day he loved her more she was bereft of her first husband scorned obscure for some eleven hundred years until that son came she had had no suitor okay all right so let's try to figure out what's going on okay"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
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      "start": 3253.94,
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      "time_label": "54:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "francis married someone okay he married this person in defiance of his family of his father okay um does anyone know the story of francis a sissy okay can you can you uh explain who he is and what he does?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=3272s",
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      "start": 3272.22,
      "end": 3286.46,
      "time_label": "54:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "uh so basically he's a saint obviously and the founder of the franciscan order and and his whole thing is that he's really poor really really really really poor poorer than augustinians poorer"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=3286s",
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      "start": 3286.46,
      "end": 3362.13,
      "time_label": "54:46",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "than dominicans okay sorry sorry how did he become poor uh he gave away all his riches okay so he's born rich okay he's born into a wealthy family and he said to his parents i don't want this okay i want poverty so he rejected his family he rejected his legacy he rejected his community in order to wed poverty okay so the bride she is referring to poverty right and who married poverty before francis poverty has two husbands francis is the second who would be the first jesus right okay jesus was the first husband and then after he died no one wanted to marry her again okay he's like i don't want poverty screw this okay francis is like i will do it i will marry poverty okay does it make sense guys all right so the she refers to poverty keep on going"
    },
    {
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/",
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=3362s",
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      "start": 3362.13,
      "end": 3432.76,
      "time_label": "56:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "verse 67 that he who made earth tremble found her unafraid, serene with amicless when he addressed her, nor did her constancy and courage help when she, even when Mary stayed below, suffered with Christ upon the cross. But so that I not tell my tale too darkly, you may now take Francis and take poverty to be the lovers meant in my recounting. Their harmony and their glad looks, their love and wonder and their gentle contemplation, served others as a source of holy thoughts. So much so that the venerable Bernard went barefoot first. He hurried towards such peace, and though he ran, he thought his pace too slow. Oh, wealth unknown. Oh, good that is so fruitful. Gideas goes barefoot, and Sylvester behind the groom, the bride delights them so. Then Francis, father, master, goes his way with both his lady and his family, the lowly cord already round their waists."
    },
    {
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      "start": 3432.8,
      "end": 3468.96,
      "time_label": "57:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so he is referring to a happy marriage, right? Francis gives up everything to marry poverty, and they are the happiest couple in the world. And there are followers who also embrace poverty, and they become a family, okay? And this becomes a Franciscan order, the early Franciscan order. Why would you be happy marrying poverty? This goes into everything that we've been taught, right? If you want to be happy, you must get rich. Why would you be happy marrying poverty? Yes?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
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      "start": 3469.38,
      "end": 3487.22,
      "time_label": "57:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_14",
      "text": "Like, what if without money, you're like living from the material world? So there's, because without money, nothing you can buy. You cannot get happiness from those materials or some like physical object. Instead, you can truly find your spirit when the material cannot make you feel astray."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
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      "time_label": "58:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, okay, so what you're saying is that money sort of blinds you, right? You focus on money, you focus on materialism, you focus on the material world, and that blinds you from a greater truth. Okay, good. Anyone else?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
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      "start": 3499.52,
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      "time_label": "58:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Oh, yeah, maybe because you want to go to paradise, go to heaven, because if you just do not be rich, then maybe you'll be in heaven, just like the gods said, right? So maybe."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "58:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Right, so Jesus said that if you are poor, you are richest in heaven. Yes, okay, blessed are the meek, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "58:38",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "So he had riches first, right? And he was giving them all away. Maybe he was trying to do good deeds by giving alms."
    },
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      "time_label": "58:45",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Could you elaborate on this?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "So like, he has all this money, and to get rid of it, to become poor, he doesn't chuck it in the river. He gives it away to like beggars, to vagrants. And even when he found his order, the Franciscan order, he took in people who have no other home. And for the people who have property, he took their donations, and he used it to do good works in the local area. So it's a way of spreading out the wealth."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Are you just assuming that, or do you know that?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "I read the story, yeah."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so he gave away his wealth?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Yeah."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, all right. But I'm saying like, why would he do that? Yes?"
    },
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      "time_label": "59:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "So in the line 76, they say, their harmony and their glad looks, their love and wonder, and their gentle consolation served others as a source of holy thoughts. So probably, he's trying to show the world that you can also, like he said, you can go look for your inner spirit, and... spiritual enlightenment, rather than chasing money. He, as an example, he want to show the world that this is, Wait. There can be a way."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so thank you. First of all, I love the fact that you refer to the text, okay? This is really important, guys. We're here to learn Dante always refer to the text. And second of all, you're absolutely right in that being an inspiration to others brings you tremendous delight, right? So back to the second, learn Dante. So back to the second, learn Dante. So that you may teach it to others as an act of love, right? So the reason why you do that is it makes you a happier person, okay? Not only does it give you more enlightenment, but it brings greater happiness to you. So by being a good example, by being a good leader, he's creating more happiness in the world, and that, in him, creates more happiness. Good, okay? So if bearing poverty can be good, why don't we do it then? Huh? Huh? There's been two husbands to poverty, Jesus and Francis."
    },
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      "time_label": "1:00:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "They're all saints, yes?"
    },
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      "text": "Well, because we would be ostracized by society. I mean, for example, there's also the philosopher, Diogenes, who lived in poverty."
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      "text": "The cynic, yes, the cynic, yes."
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      "text": "Yeah, yeah, he lived in Athens in a barrel or something for his whole life. A bathtub. Or a bathtub, yeah. And yeah, he was also really poor, and everyone looked down on him, and, like, he was ostracized, and yeah. But why did he do it then? If he was ostracized, if he was humiliated, everyone laughed at him, why did he do it? Well, he didn't care. Like, he felt happy, so that's what mattered. But what's the source of his happiness?"
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      "text": "I... No, it's like the Buddhist said, if you don't want... If you don't desire, then you're never going to have suffering, because suffering is the point of desire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he just didn't want it. Yes?"
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      "text": "So, I would turn inwards, to be honest, I would turn inwards, I would say this is a way for them to get closer to God, because as we mentioned before, like, in Dante's own flight to paradise, Beatrice told him to shed his physical conceptions, to shed his physical logic, to shed his worldly things, and only when we are pure in spirit can we reach the heavens. Now, suicide is not a thing in Catholicism, so the closest we can get to a state of being pure in spirit is by getting rid of all our property and having only this body left."
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      "text": "Okay, right, yeah, I understand that, but I'm saying, like, why is it hard to just do that? Why do you not want to give up your pop, like, property and your wealth? Anyone else? Let's have more participation, okay, yes?"
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      "text": "We don't know, actually, what it would be like if we haven't experienced it before, so what if we give everything away and then..."
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      "text": "Exactly, yeah, thank you, okay, so we have one, which is... We will become social ostracized, okay? Humiliation, it's public humiliation, okay? Everyone's gonna laugh at us. Unless you're, like, diagenese and you just don't care, okay? But that's pretty rare. Second is... Sorry, sorry, could you repeat?"
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      "text": "It's the, if we haven't experienced it before, we don't know what it will be like, so what if I give everything away and then I'm actually miserable?"
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      "text": "So these are the two things, right? Ego and fear. Ego is you want to stand above the people around you. Fear is you don't truly know yourself, you're afraid, okay? So these are the two major reasons, the ego and the fear, yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "And sometimes you also have, like, responsibility about raising a family or caring about, like, your family, so that could be a reason. Like, besides your ego, you need to care for others also."
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      "text": "Yeah, exactly, right? If you have a family, you can't take a vow on poverty. You have to feed them as well. So poverty... Poverty means complete social isolation, right? It means you can't get married. It means you can't have kids. So it is an act of tremendous sacrifice. Good, thank you. Anyone else? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "So I think that, you know, when you have, like, materialistic goals, it kind of motivates you sometimes. So, for example, if there's, like, a test and my mom promises me, like, a new iPhone 17 Pro, like, I would definitely, like, work harder for that. So I just think that for, like, a lot of people, it's very hard to let go of, like, their materialistic desires because then they would feel like, my life is so devoid of meaning. And I think that they're scared of that."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, so what you're saying is short -term gratification versus long -term reward, right? Maybe if you embrace the life of poverty, you go to heaven, and that's great. But in the short -term, you're not going to be able to do that. In the short -term, you're better off just being rich. Right? So, good, yes. Anyone else? Yes? Yeah. No, sorry, sorry, sorry. You, you, yes."
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      "text": "I think, you know, in ancient times, in time of Dante, wealth means physical possessions, chattels, or real estate. And all this carries tremendous responsibility for the person who possess them because, and this leads to a burdensome life. And secondly, and secondly, just going back to the text, I think when the Franciscan and the Arcanos, the Dominican, they praise the other and criticize themselves, there might be a new interpretation, which I think might be interesting, which, you know, if we, if they, what if these two criticize themselves because they do not have equal wealth and equal knowledge? If, there is the Chinese saying, you know, your wealth is only yours if your knowledge deserves it. So, it means that, you know, if your wealth is equal to your knowledge, maybe it's a good thing. If the wealth goes to a person who has great knowledge and great capacity to distribute the wealth and use the wealth"
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      "text": "in a wise way, not for his family, but also for society, I think it might be a good thing."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. So, that's a very interesting comment. But have we had an instance where a truly wise man also had tremendous wealth? Maybe Solomon, okay? So, but I mean, there are examples. But historically, we've had more cases where you can either choose wealth or wisdom, right? The classic example, of course, is Socrates, a man who was basically poor all his life. In fact, his wife made all the money in the family, okay? He had a family, he had kids, but the wife had to raise the kids because he didn't take money. So, he didn't take money for his teachings. He just went around and taught for free. He was engaged in wisdom. Okay. Any more questions or comments before we move on?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Yeah. Maybe because the, you know, people who just live in ancient time, they sometimes believe in God, believe they are stoicism, maybe. But, you know, the world is being regulated by the system, right? The system is just for rich, for rich people. The people who have money, it means that they have right to talk. They have right to do whatever they want. So, maybe it's just because the social system just want people to be rich. If you can be rich, then you'll be one of us. But if you do not, you have your own wisdom, then, sorry, I won't give you the right. I won't give you the money. Maybe that's the problem."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. That's an interesting point, okay? This is certainly true for all world, where all that matters is money. Money moves around the world. This is not true, actually, in medieval Europe, okay? Medieval Europe, yes, there's hypocrisy where the Catholic Church is filthy rich. They own a third of all the land in Europe. That is true. But what is taught, what people believe is that money is the root of all evil. So, the money doesn't matter. What matters is salvation. What matters is going to heaven, okay? Okay. Yes?"
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      "text": "Is it kind of gaslighting that the Catholic Church has said that they own, like, most of the land, but they say, money is the root of evil. But meanwhile, they have all the money and can do whatever they want."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. And so, what would you prefer? They own all the property, and they tell everyone, you're nothing, I'm everything, you guys are poor, you guys are going to hell. Would you prefer that?"
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      "text": "No. Okay. I'd rather be deceived. Yeah."
    },
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      "text": "I'm interested about the charitable concept of all of this. Like, I know this is not the modern age. In the modern age, you have to pay a lot of taxes, and the taxes go towards public works. And you can donate to charity, and you have all these things going on. But in the Middle Ages, wealth was pretty stagnant, right? However, there are some few charitable endeavors by believers. Like, there's this custom of almsgiving by rich ladies, and there's also the Catholic Church and the monasteries, and they provide sanctuary to criminals, and they provide schooling. So, like, is that a type of charitable outreach that would not be possible had they not been so organized and so rich?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah. So, charity is one of the chief Christian virtues, right? So, we say faith, love, and hope, but back then, it was faith, hope, and charity. So, if you're a rich person, you were obligated to share your wealth with the people around you, okay? And, guys, it's hard to imagine this, but back then, no one really cared how rich you were. It was not a big thing. Okay? It was a source of a lot of corruption, but for most people, they didn't really care. At the elite politics, it did matter, but for most people, it did not matter, okay? We live in a world that is money obsessed. It is crazy how we just love money. We think that money is a source of all good in this world. For whatever reason, we worship this fake trillionaire, Elon Musk. Like, he's a fake trillionaire, okay? All this, the money he has, is just made up."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "It doesn't really exist, and we worship him, okay? So, anyone else from any other type of human history comes to our day, and everyone says, like, you guys are the most superstitious people in the world, okay? You guys worship this fake god money, and you spend your entire life around it. You guys are superstitious. You guys are ignorant. You guys are backwards, okay? I guarantee you, anyone who comes from the past to today will be appalled by the way we live our lives. All right, okay, so having established the fact that, you know, we have this ego and fear that prevents us from truly understanding God, okay? This raises the question of how, then, can we overcome the ego and the fear, right? That's the question, okay? This is a central question if we are to save humanity, if we imagine humanity, okay? Keep this in the back of your mind. How do you overcome ego and fear?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "I've already given you the answer, faith, hope, and love, but let's examine what this really means, okay? All right, so can you continue, Carol, please?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 88. Nor did he lower his eyes in shame because he was the son of Pietro Benardone, nor for the scorn and wonder he aroused, but like a sovereign, he disclosed in full, to innocent, the sternness of his rule. From him he had the first seal of his order. And after many of the poor had followed Francis, whose wondrous life was better sung by glorious choir and the Empyrean, the sacred purpose of this chief of shepherds was then encircled with a second crown by the eternal spirit through Honorius. And after, in his thirst for martyrdom, within the presence of the haughty Sultan, he preached of Christ and those who followed him."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so Francis is being described as the exemplar of faith, hope, and love. Why? Because not only did he embrace poverty, but he went to the Islamic world and tried to convert the Sultan, okay? That is the exemplar model of faith, hope, and love. Okay, does that make sense? Okay, keep this image in the back of your mind. This man who is a Christian from this backward place called Europe, he goes to probably the wealthiest place in the world, and he tries to convince the Sultan that, hey, you're wrong, you're worshiping the wrong God. And let me tell you why, okay? Keep on going."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "It's not just this man, but there's another reason why he turned away from God. I don't know why he turned away from God. He went to a place called Thessalonica, and he was doing research there. if you do not offer to hear and read the book of Thessalonica, And he was not going to do that. And here we go. It's not just him but the rest of the world. he was called Thessalonica, and his success was all about the jerseys of the world. heirs francis commended his most precious lady and he begged them to love her faithfully"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "okay so so okay so you guys understand what's happening right francis will die he'll go to heaven to to receive his just reward he tells his brothers his entire followers to be loyal to his wife right my wife is poverty now that i'm gone my only request my last will and testament is for you to be loyal to take care of my wife who's given me everything in this world and who's helped me to ascend to heaven so of course what do they do what do they do obviously uh yes they"
    },
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      "text": "they're not disloyal they abandon poverty and and and by how if you if you are this"
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      "text": "brotherhood the francisian order what's the easiest way for you to abandon poverty"
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      "text": "very somewhat who are rich"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "no because they're all celibate right this is francisian order so they're supposed to marry poverty and so what do they do and and and it's a loophole right they're not gonna like you know what screw this uh we're going to marry rich people okay but there's a loophole what was what"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "is the loophole oh the loophole is actually really famous so like uh it used to be that during the time when francis was like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like the�를 of the life and people give the franciscan order a top uh a house in town to live in and francis just climbed up the roof and started tearing off the shingles and the town was like stop stop stop and francis was like no you're giving us a house we can't have that even if we share it we can't have that and so the town told francis okay i guess we're lending you the house and francis begrudgingly agreed so after he died this kind of went overboard like francis was were borrowing things left and right left and right and eventually they became the like the other orders but all the things are technically borrowed okay"
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      "text": "well they basically own property"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "okay so let me ask you this question why would people give them property why would people give"
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      "text": "them property so do they say something like give us um property and then you can perhaps ascend to"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "heaven or like the friends would never ever say this okay they would never say if you make me rich i'll get i'll make you go to heaven okay that's not what happened like donate to our just cause no they would never they would never say that what happened uh yes yes you go first and then you okay yeah you should be poor so so i'll take your property from you no they would never ever do that okay they would never do that what happened they were actually inspirational they"
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      "text": "were really inspirational like rich people some people wanted to be franciscans but they could feel like they couldn't cut off their material ties entirely so they give the franciscans on property exactly"
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      "text": "you understand it's a bribe guys okay if i'm rich i'm a billion dollars and these guys are going to heaven because they're poor what i'm going to do i'm going to bribe these guys says hey i'll give you half a million i'll give you like half a billion dollars i'll give you half my wealth okay i still keep a half a billion you get a half billion and we all go to heaven guys you understand that's what happened they did not intentionally try to become rich but they were forced to become rich because everyone wanted to go to heaven okay the idea here is like money doesn't really matter it's salvation that matters they're the keys to heaven everyone's like how much can i pay for these keys and for francis like no that's not how this works guys okay this is not how it works but if you are not francis and you're just"
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      "text": "this normal human being and people are offering you like billions and billions of dollars it's hard for you to refuse okay and that's and that's what happened it doesn't make sense guys okay the francis would never ever say give me money and you go to heaven okay but not the franciscans all right yeah yes i think the relationship between the franciscans"
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      "text": "and the pope is really interesting on one hand francis was a devout catholic and he will never contradict the pope in fact he was told by catholic central to maybe tone the richest bad thing down a little bit because you're making us look bad and francis was like okay also uh even though francis is widely known as a peacemaker uh during the crusades he did not speak up against the crusades and he approved the crusades tacitly because after all he was"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "affiliated with the church okay yeah so this is a very important point okay so what's happening in this time is that there are a lot of people who are opposed to catholic church because the catholic church is filthy rich and they were like wait a minute here jesus was poor he said don't be rich um and you guys are filthy rich okay and they were like ostentatious about it like you know just gonna go to rome man okay go to vatican it's the wealthiest place in the world um so there's all this criticism and a way for the catholic church to deal with this criticism is to sponsor the franciscan order right as a way to co -opt these people and show you see there are people who are dedicated to poverty so the franciscans were a useful political pawn uh for the church to maintain legitimacy okay right so thank you for that all"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "right let's keep on going"
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      "text": "verse 115 and when returning to its kingdom his bright soul wanted to set forth from her bosom it for its body asked no other buyer consider now that man who was a colleague worthy of francis with him a son of the king of the people his blood was pure he kept the bark of peter on true course such was"
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      "text": "our patriarch thus uh he's referring to paul by the way okay paul keep on going such was our patriarch"
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      "end": 4914.21,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "thus you can see that those who follow him as he commands as cargo carry worthy merchandise but now his flock is grown so greedy for new nourishment that it must wander far in search of strange and distant grazing lands and as his sheep remote and vagabond straight from the land of the father from his side at their return into the fold their lack of milk is greater though there are some indeed who fearing harm stay near the shepherd they are few in number to call them would require little cloth now if my words are not too dim and distant if you have listened carefully to them if you can call to mind what has been said then part of what you wish to know is answered for you'll see the splinters on the plant and see what my correction meant where one"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "may fatten well if one does not stray off okay all right so this critical dilemma okay these are people the Franciscans who have the most noble purpose okay to spread the message of Jesus to bring hope and salvation to the poorest people to embrace poverty these are the best Catholics but there are two central issues the first is their ego in their fear right the fact that to truly embrace poverty the way that Francis did you have to abandon society and no one wants to do that right it's a social death and you're afraid of what it means to be poor so the ego and the fear but another issue is that once you truly embrace poverty and you are seen as holy the entire world wants to co -opt you they want to bribe you they want to give you money so that they can share in your holiness and over time that accumulates"
    },
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      "start": 4980.78,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "and you just become just as corrupt as everyone else okay so these are the two central dilemmas and the question then is how do you overcome this situation how do you how can you actually bring salvation to humanity if the if there are these constraints okay one is our own psychological constraint of ego and fear another is just the social constraint okay how how and that's valuable people will try to buy out okay to understand the dilemma right okay and this is the situation that Dante is facing in medieval Europe in the year 1300 to 1321. okay any questions before we move on okay all right let's move on to count 12 please okay and now and now we are going to meet Bonaventure who's going to talk about the Dominican order and then he's going to criticize the Franciscan order okay no sorry no no he's he's going to the Dominican order and criticize"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "the Franciscan order okay oh wait sorry um something that I've got to mention is that um the reason so for um St Thomas Aquinas the reason why he thinks that the Dominican order became corrupt is eventually they've had too much power right the Dominican order are the Jesuits of the time they're committed to learning they're committed to uh economic inquiry but the Catholic Church uses them as inquisitors to maintain orthodoxy for out the um Europe okay so they spread far and wide and accumulate too much power and then ultimately corrupts them okay does it make sense guys okay all right uh now now we talk about the Dominicans"
    },
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      "time_label": "1:25:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "okay counter 12. no sooner had the blessed flame begun to speak its final word than the Millstone of holy lights began to turn but it was not yet done with one full revolution before another ring surrounded it and motion matched with motion song with song a song that sung by those sweet instruments surpasses so our Muses sirens as first light does the light that is reflected just as concentric like in color two rainbows will curve their way through a thin cloud when juno has commanded her handmaid the outer rainbow echoing the inner much like the voice of one the wandering nymph whose love consumed as sun consumes the mist and those two bows let people here foretell by reason of the pact god made with noah that flood will never strike the world again so the two garlands of those everlasting roses circled around us and so did the outer circle mime the inner ring"
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      "start": 5167.86,
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      "time_label": "1:26:07",
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      "text": "when dance and jubilation festival of song and flame that answered flame of light with light of gladness and benevolence in some same in one same instant with one will fell still just as the eyes when moved by their desire can only close and open in accord then from the heart of one of the new lights there came a voice and as i turned toward it i seemed a needle turning to the pole star and it began the love that makes me fair draws me to speak about the other leader because of whom my own was so praised here where one is it is right to introduce the other side by side they fought so may they share in glory and together gleam rise army was three arming kaar so dearly was slow uncertain of itself and scanty behind its enzyme when the emperor rules forever held his ranks in danger only out of his grace"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "and not their merits and that was that he then sustained his bride providing her with two who could revive ourselves when people champion suit by doing owns writing preview完 Kane"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "buying the br steadily charge and the two champions are francis and dominic okay keep on going verse 46 in that part of the west"
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      "text": "where gentle sapphire rises to open those new leaves in which europe appears reclosed not far from where behind the waves that beat upon the coast the sun grown weary from its lengthy course at times conceals itself from all men's eyes there coloroga blessed by fortune sits under the aegis of the mighty shield on which the lion loses and prevails within its walls were born the loving vassal of christian faith the holy athlete one kind to his own and harsh to enemies no sooner was his mind created than it was so full of living force that it still in his mother's womb made her prophetic then at the sacred font where faith and he brought mutual salvation as their dowry the rights of their esposo was were complete okay all right so so the idea here is that"
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      "text": "francis married poverty dominic will marry faith okay all right keep on going"
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      "text": "verse 64 the lady who had given the ascent from for him saw in a dream astonishing fruit that would spring from him and from his heirs and that his name might echo what he was moved into grace and the Christ of the lamb first love that he showed was the first injunction christ had given his nurse would often find him on the ground alert and silent in a way that said it is for this self -reliance that she put by god that i have come truly his father was felice and his mother giovanna if her name interpreted is in accord with what has been asserted not for the world but for which men now travail along to deo's way or ossians but through his love of the true manna he became in a brief time so great a teacher that he began to oversee the vineyard that withers when neglected by its keeper and from"
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      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 5403.3,
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      "time_label": "1:30:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "the seat that once was kinder to the righteous poor and now has gone astray not in itself but in its occupant he did not ask to offer two or free for six nor four vacant benefits nor decimus quae sunt pauperum dei but pleaded for the right to fight against the heir of the king world, to serve the seed from which there grew the four and twenty plants that room you."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so let's go into the history of the Dominicans. The Dominicans were founded for a very specific purpose. So, at this time in Europe, there's a major threat to the Catholic Church, and it's called the Cathars. Okay, the Cathars. The Cathars, the Cathars, okay? And to deal with the Cathars, and they are in southern France, in a place called Abidjanese. The Catholic Church launched something called the Abidjanesean Crusade. Okay? The idea is that these Cathars are what we today call Gnostics. What are Gnostics? Gnostics are people who believe in the ideas that Dante believes, okay? That we have a direct connection to God, who is the Monad, the source. And that this material world doesn't really matter. What matters is our spiritual life. And these Cathars are impossible to deal with because they're not afraid to die. In fact, they welcome death. Right? Before, the Catholic Church is like, if you don't obey us, we'll burn you at the stake."
    },
    {
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      "start": 5509.28,
      "end": 5598.1,
      "time_label": "1:31:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "And the Cathars are like, fine. I'm happy to burn at the stake, okay? So, the Catholic Church launches these crusades against the Cathars, who are in the southern France, and the Cathars are not afraid to die, and they are so holy, and they're so inspirational that the community, who are, by the way, majority Catholic, they rally behind the Cathars and protect the Cathars' right to believe in what they believe, okay? The Cathars are so inspirational that in one famous instance, when the Catholic Army, the Crusaders, have basically surrounded a fortress, okay? And again, what's really important to understand is that the majority of people fighting for the Cathars are themselves Catholic. And so what happens is this fortress is about to fall. And the commander of the Catholic Army says to the Cathars, we wouldn't want you guys. The Catholic people who are protecting you will let them live. And the Catholic people protecting the Cathars said, fine, we will convert, okay?"
    },
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      "start": 5598.88,
      "end": 5666.89,
      "time_label": "1:33:18",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "We will become Cathars ourselves. We will die with you, okay? So that's how inspirational they were. So the Catholic Church is like, what are we going to do, okay? Because, yes, we can possibly step them out, but this is embarrassing for us. And their example is going to possibly overfill us. So they create the Dominican order in order to deal with the Cathar threat, the Aborigines Crusade. And the idea is that you cannot kill these people. What you do is you re -educate these people, okay? Okay? So rather than use the sword, they use the pen. So the Dominican order would go into a village. And there's only about, like, 1 % who are Cathars, right? But you just figure out who they are. And they would interrogate everyone. And quite honestly, that worked because in interrogation, you could figure out who the Cathars were."
    },
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      "start": 5667.13,
      "end": 5710.27,
      "time_label": "1:34:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "These are the inconsistencies in the stories, right? And then once you isolate them. Then you could then re -educate them. And that's the idea behind the Dominican order. And as you can imagine, the Dominicans fought themselves. They were warriors for Christ. Their mission was not to kill people. Their mission was to show them the error of their thinking, okay? Re -education. Enlightenment. And through that, the Catholic Church was able to step out the Cathar threat. Does that make sense, guys? Okay? Any questions about that? Okay, let's keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 5713.45,
      "end": 5777.41,
      "time_label": "1:35:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 97. Then he, with both his learning and his zeal, and with his apostolic office, like a torrent hurtled from a mountain source, coursed and his impetus with greatest force, struck where the thickets of the heretics offered the most resistance. And from him there sprang the streams with which the Catholic garden has found abundance, so that its saplings have more life, more green. If such was one wheel of the chariot in which the Holy Church, in her defense, taking the field, defeated enemies within, then you must see the excellence of him, the other wheel, whom Thomas praised so graciously before I made my entry. And yet the track traced by the outer rim of that wheel is abandoned now, as in a cask of wine when crust gives way to mold, his family, which once advanced with steps that followed his footprints, has now turned back. Its forward foot now seeks the foot that lags."
    },
    {
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0166",
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      "start": 5777.45,
      "end": 5814.49,
      "time_label": "1:36:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "And soon we are to see, at harvest time, the poor grain gathered where the tares will be denied a place within the bin and weep. I do admit that, if one were to search our volume leaf by leaf, he might still read one page with, I am as I always was, but those, of Aquasparta or Casale, who read our rule, are either given to escape in it or making it too strict. I am the living light of Bonaventure of Baniorea. In high offices, I always put the left -hand interests last."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
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      "start": 5814.55,
      "end": 5832.01,
      "time_label": "1:36:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, the left -hand interests. What he's saying is that the Catholic Church is very corrupt. They are always doing left -hand interests, okay? The left -hand just means whatever is sinister. And I... I am the most pure, I am the most just, official. Okay, keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 5835.02,
      "end": 5892.4,
      "time_label": "1:37:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 130. Illuminato and Augustine are here. They were among the first unshod poor brothers to wear the cord, becoming friends of God. Hugh of St. Victor II is here with them. Peter of Spain, who with his twelve books glows on earth below, and Peter book devourer, Nathan the prophet, Anselm, and Chrysostom, the metropolitan, and that Donatus, who deigned to deal with that art which comes first. Ravenous too, in here and at my side, shines the Calabrian abbot, Joachim, who had the gift of the prophetic spirit. To this, my praise of such a paladin, the glowing courtesy and the discerning language of Thomas urged me on and stirred, with me, the souls that form this company."
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 5892.74,
      "end": 5939.5,
      "time_label": "1:38:12",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, alright, so, okay, so, again, to summarize, we've, we've learned about the Franciscan order, and we learned about the Dominican order. They both started out as just, good, and righteous. Over time, both will become corrupt, okay? The Franciscans become corrupt because people want to give them property, okay? The Dominicans become corrupt because they have too much power, okay? Their power of life, they have the power of life and death over people, and they spread throughout Europe in order to be the army of the Catholic Church, okay? So you can imagine, it is, it's a similar situation where the rich are bribing them in order to curry favor with them, okay? To settle local scores, to gain a place in heaven, to influence internal politics, okay? Alright, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 5941.04,
      "end": 5959.58,
      "time_label": "1:39:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_01",
      "text": "So, in, in this, in this section, we see that they see that the Dominicans are in paradise, so, if the Dominicans were converting the Cathars, what, what is Dante's actually thought of the Cathars? Does he think they were good or bad?"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 5960.42,
      "end": 5993.7,
      "time_label": "1:39:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so, we will never know what Dante thought of the Cathars, okay? Um, he knows what happened, but he probably believes that they were a heretical sect, because that was the official, um, um, doctrine, okay? And remember, at this time in history, Dante has much greater problems to deal with, okay? The fact that brothers killing brother, the fact that the Catholic Church is so corrupt, those are, those are his concerns. Okay, does that make sense? Uh, yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0172",
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      "start": 5994.17,
      "end": 6015.29,
      "time_label": "1:39:54",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "I've noticed that this is something that Dante likes to do. Like, he likes to roll call people. Like, uh, I remember, uh, like, reading about, uh, Dante roll calling people in hell. Like, he condemned a bunch of people who were still alive to hell, and there's a place in hell for them. And basically, he's making a goodie list and baddie list here. Can I say it like that?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 6015.57,
      "end": 6090.97,
      "time_label": "1:40:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yes, exactly. Okay, yeah. Right. Um, this is a way for him to try to structure the world, um, and also to make sense of what's going on in the world, okay? Basically, from his perspective, um, he has a power to judge people. So those that are doing wrong, he can put in hell. Those that he knows that did good, for example, his patrons, he puts in the heaven, okay? All right, um, okay. Another thing that I want to talk about is, we assume that whatever he writes is intentional, meaning it's a conscious decision on his part to frame the way things are, okay? A lot of poetry is subconscious because you are channeling the divine. Does that make sense? So we can objectively, as critics, as readers, make some historical parallels between what he's saying and what we know, okay? But it could be possible that, um, his understanding of the history is different from our understanding of the history."
    },
    {
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      "start": 6091.15,
      "end": 6143.16,
      "time_label": "1:41:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "It's also possible that he really didn't know about the Cathars because they were suppressed, okay? We know about the Cathars because of our own research. So does that make sense to you guys? All right? We're assuming that Dante knows what he's actually saying. But it may not. It may just be complete inspiration. And we, as critics, are able to look back and say, oh, I see the connection here. But he may not be conscious of this information, okay? Does that make sense? All right, so that's why it's impossible to say what is his intention. Because he himself may not know what his intention is. He's just a poet. He is a prophet for God. He's just speaking what he believes to be true, even though he himself may not know actually what he's saying, okay?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 6143.73,
      "end": 6151.71,
      "time_label": "1:42:23",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_16",
      "text": "Yes? Do we have any, like, Dostoevsky wrote to his brother all the time, and he's like, this is what I'm thinking. Is there any letters that exist of Dante at all?"
    },
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      "start": 6152.23,
      "end": 6224.05,
      "time_label": "1:42:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, so there are lots of documents. So Dante was a published poet before Divine Comedy. Divine Comedy is his last act. But he's written also many different works as well. And, you know, it's really strange, because none of his works received the same acclaim as Divine Comedy. But he was sure he was the greatest poet in the world. And he was sure that in his lifetime, he would be recognized as the greatest poet in the world. Excuse me? Well, what happens when we read the Inferno, what's happening is that he places himself with the same status as Virgil and the other great Latin epic poets, okay? So already he's conceived himself as a legendary poet, even though he's not that famous at this point, even though he's not recognized as the greatest poet at this time. He is confident that he will be recognized in his lifetime. It doesn't work out that way. He'll die"
    },
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      "text": "after he finishes Divine Comedy, and people will recognize Divine Comedy as a work of genius after he dies, but not during his lifetime."
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      "text": "All right. Sorry, I have a question. I just, I just question, you know, do you think Dante really think that he's a poet? Because, you know, at last the people paid money for him to be a poet. Or it's just people right now who thought that he was a poet. So what I mean is that, what's the purpose of his writing? If there's nobody who paid money for him to do that, then there must be some purpose for himself to write down such a long poem, you know, we can call it a masterpiece. Or he can just write it by himself, just do not worry or care about the readers. Is that what you mean?"
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      "text": "Okay. Let me ask you a question. Has there been anyone in history who has been a great poet, who has chosen to be a great poet? You are not, you don't choose to be a poet. You don't choose to be a prophet. You are chosen by God. Okay. And God channels his power through you. And how do we, how do people know that this is a great poet? How do we, how do we know? Excuse me?"
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      "text": "By reading their work?"
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      "text": "Yeah, but so? We can read a lot of work, but how do we know what's great and what's not? If the world persists, like over time, if it survives? Yeah, but how does it survive over time? I guess people have to maintain it, right? Citation."
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      "text": "You know?"
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      "text": "No, no, no."
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      "text": "I think we'll just know if the work is great, we just know the work is great. Yeah, but how do we know? We just know it. No, but I mean, why?"
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      "text": "How? Like the contents have been proven by time?"
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      "text": "This is not a hard question, okay? Yes? It resonates with our experience. And what do we call this?"
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      "text": "Truth and beauty, right? You understand? Like if people read Divine Comedy and they think, oh my God, it made me cry. Oh my God, it's so beautiful. No one would bother to keep it around, right? It's truth and beauty that makes Divine Comedy a great work of poetry. It's no difference from like, why do you go to concert and pay 50 bucks or I've never been to a concert. I don't know how much they cost, okay? But I know you're sitting around with 10,000 people and it's a pain in the ass. But why are you doing this? Because the singer, whoever he or she is, moves you to tears because it resonates with you. Do you understand? Okay? We are looking at Divine Comedy from an intellectual analytical perspective, but it's able to be so powerful because first and foremost, it resonates because it speaks beauty and truth. Do you understand? And beauty and truth can only come from God."
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      "text": "Do you understand, okay? Only a human being by channeling God can create such truth and beauty in the world. And only a person can do this. If you get two people to try to do this, it won't work, okay? Try it. Try to get two people to write a poem together. It sucks. It has to be a person channeling the monad, the source. And then you know it's beautiful because everyone who reads it is moved to tears because it's beautiful, right? No different from painting. Why do we have... Why do we celebrate certain paintings? Because they're more beautiful than others. Okay, this is not a random thing. Does that make sense? Okay, any more questions before we move on? Okay, so let's go to Canto 17. Okay. And we also don't have time to read Canto 17, but I will introduce some basic ideas for Canto 17, and then we will go into Canto 17."
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      "text": "And so Dante has a series of questions that he must resolve before he can meet God, okay? He is going to meet God. That is the purpose of Divine Comedy. It is Pilgrim's journey into the heart of the universe, the soul of the universe. And he is full of ego and he's full of fear, okay? The ego is like, I'm the greatest poet in the world. Why don't people recognize that I'm the greatest poet in the world? The fear is I've been exiled from Florence. And where does my life go from here? I have a family. How can I feed my family? I have no source of income because the people in Florence who exile me have stolen everything from me, okay? I've got nothing in this world. And so I know my mission is to write Divine Comedy. I know my heart. That's what my mission is. But the reality around me is, like, I'm in exile."
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      "text": "I have kids. I have no property. What am I going to do now? Also, I look around the world, I look around the world, and I start out with the Guelphs, and we defeat the Gilebians, but then the Guelphs fall in my hands. The Guelphs themselves. So what's the hope for this world if all we do is just fight for power? I also think about the Franciscans and the Dominicans, and they started out great, but then they became like everyone else, okay? So what is the point of my existence? Why am I writing Divine Comedy? Is there any hope for humanity? Is there any hope for us? Okay? So what's going to happen is that Dante must reserve these fears, these doubts, before he can actually meet God, because if you're coming to meet God from a place of ego and fear, you're not going to meet God, okay?"
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      "text": "You're just not. You don't see God. So the way he does this is that he will, in heaven, meet his ancestor or grandfather. I can't actually remember if it's grandfather or great -grandfather, but it's an ancestor, okay? What the ancestor is going to do is reassure him by telling him the history of his family, the lineage, okay? Where they came from, all the great deeds that the family has done throughout the course of history, and then what the grandfather is going to do is give Dante the prophecy, okay? Where your life is going to go. Why would this be reassuring to Dante? Why would knowing your family history be reassuring to Dante? You are at a stage in your life when all hope is broken. You're in exile. You're poor. But hearing your history, your family history, where you came from, does give you hope. Why?"
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      "text": "Because it gives you something to hold on to. Like, they can take away everything you own in this world, but your connection to your ancestors and the great deeds of your ancestors, they will never go away. They cannot take that away."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, okay. So what this is saying is that you'll be remembered for your actions, okay? Just as the actions of your father were remembered. Just as the actions of your grandfather were remembered, okay? That's what you will leave to the world. Not your wealth, not your achievements, but your actions, okay? Your actions will be celebrated. Your actions will be remembered. Anyone else? Why would this matter?"
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      "text": "Also, it gives a sense of cycle where, like, even if times are bad, then, like, just with time, it gets better."
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      "text": "Yeah, so there's a plan in motion, right? So by saying, like, you know, this is what your grandfather did, this is what your father did, you're saying that there is a plan and this is all part of your destiny, Dante. You came to this point because it was planned from the beginning, and your family was just enacting out the plan, and now you have come to this point, and you must do your part as well, okay? And that is reassuring, I would think, right? Who else? Yes?"
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      "text": "So I'm just going to add on to that and say that I think, at least I think during this time, like, ancestry was seen as to be, like, very important, and, like, your ancestors were seen to be, like, much wiser than you were, so I think that just Dante, by listening to his ancestors reassure him, like, he felt that, yeah, I'm reassured because I trust these people a lot, and they definitely know more than me."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, exactly. Okay, that's a really good point, okay? So, yes, the ancestors are giving you support. Yes?"
    },
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      "start": 6806.61,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "By looking at their achievement, their endeavors, you can also see what they've yet to achieve, and maybe that's how you connect the dots. That's how you realize, so this is the part that I will do that they didn't manage to achieve."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yes. You're part of a family, and you have a responsibility to do your part, right? You have to add to us. So, yes, you have to find comedy, and you'll probably die afterwards. You won't achieve any fame, but your achievement will add to our family legacy, right? That's your responsibility. So what's happening is that just the idea that you're part of a family legacy, it's removing the ego and fear from him, right? Okay? It's cleansing him. And any other comments or thoughts? Okay, so when we come back from the break, we're going to read, not the family history, it's a bit long, but we'll read the prophecy that the grandfather tells Dante, okay? And so something to keep in mind is, it's really complicated, okay? But I want you to keep this in mind. So Dante is, dies in 1321, okay? He actually finished his Divine Comedy in 1321. What's interesting is that the Divine Comedy is set in the year 1300, Easter Sunday."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay? He tells us this in the Inferno, okay? So in other words, he already has the benefit of hindsight. He already knows what's going to happen to him, okay? But he sets his character in the year 1300, and then his grandfather will tell Dante what will happen in the year 1302, okay? 1302 is when Dante is exiled from Florence, and this marks a traumatic event in his life, okay? So think about this, where Dante is writing in 1321, he already knows what's already happened, but he set his character in the year 1300, so that his grandfather can tell him what will happen two years from now, okay? Two years from now, okay? And that is the setting for Canto 17, which we'll read after the break."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Any questions, guys? Yes? You said that to connect with God, you need to let go of fear and ego, but then how can he do so in heaven, which is like already with God, right? But he's not in heaven. Didn't you say that he let go of fear, by talking with his ancestors? Right, okay."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "So, um, okay. So to understand this is that this is a literary conceit, okay? The way he lets go of his ego and fear is by writing Divine Comedy, right? And in Divine Comedy, the scene that he sets to help us appreciate how he's able to let go of his ego and fear is the meeting with his grandfather, his grandfather in heaven. Does that make sense?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Okay. So that means in the beginning of the writing, he's not quite yet, like, enlightenment, right? Like, to a state of enlightenment."
    },
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      "text": "That's right, okay? That's a really important thing to appreciate, where maybe from an early age, he's able to conceive the Divine Comedy, okay? But the very process of writing it is also revelatory and enlightening. Do you understand? All right? And so he will change as a person through the process of reading Divine Comedy. The same thing as reading Divine Comedy, where I'm sure that by reading it, you yourself are going through a spiritual and emotional alchemy, right? You're thinking much more deeply about who you are. You're thinking much more deeply about your relationship with the world. And maybe your heart is opening up. Well, it's the same thing... Well, it's obviously the same if you write the thing, right? Because what's happening is that the poetry is a revelation from God, okay? It is... You are co -creating the process, but what you're really doing is you're just a scribe for God. All right? Does that make sense, guys?"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "All right, okay. So we'll take a break, and we'll come back at 1 o 'clock, okay? All right, thanks, guys. Are we good, or...? I'm just waiting for the signal from the booth. Let's get started. Okay, all right, guys. We are live. First of all, I want to thank so much Carol and her team. There are some comments online talking about the sound quality and the video resolution quality, and Carol and her team worked really hard yesterday, and now a new version is uploaded, complete, with better sound and video quality. So thank you so much, Carol and your team, for your selfless dedication to promoting Dante in the world. Okay, so what I will do now is discuss the central conflict, which is how does Dante reconcile his divine mission, which is to be the prophet poet for the monad, with the fact that his life really, really sucks. In 1302, he was exiled from his hometown of Florence, where his family has been there for generations."
    },
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      "text": "He loves the place. He loses everything, he loses all his property, all his wealth because of his exile, and now he's just fooling around. Okay, so how does he reconcile this pain, this agony, this suffering, with his large divine mission? And here, what he's going to do is he's going to reimagine Virgil, the Aeneid, okay? So what I'm going to do is I'm going to summarize for you the plot of the Aeneid. We should read it together. We don't have time, but for the sake of the conversation today, I'm just going to give you a brief summary of the Aeneid, okay? So this is Virgil, and for about a thousand years, this is the greatest epic poem of the Western tradition. And if you're an educated person, you have to read it. It is the Bible, okay? It's actually much more important than the Bible."
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      "text": "So the main character is Aeneas, and Aeneas, is a prince of Troy. And like Dante, he loves Troy. They've been, his family has been there for generations. It is the greatest city in the world. Unfortunately, the Greeks have to come and destroy it, okay? And Aeneas has to watch his city being destroyed by the Greeks. This is Trojan War, of course. They sneak in because of the Trojan horse. And Aeneas wants to die trying to save Troy. But his mother, Venus, appears before him and says, no, Aeneas, you have a higher mission. You have a higher calling. You, your son, will be destined to found the greatest empire in the world called Rome, okay? Rome will be the new Troy. Troy must be destroyed in order for Rome to rise. And Rome will be the end of history. It will be the greatest empire in all of human history."
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      "text": "So Aeneas is, like, fine, okay? Because he's been ordered by the gods. And so he and his family and the followers, they get on ships and they sail to Italy where they're supposed to found the new empire of Rome. They get shipwrecked and they end up in Carthage. And in Carthage, Aeneas there falls in love with a queen, Dido. And Aeneas is really, really happy in Carthage. And Carthage is this new city that's being built. And Aeneas sees his life being here. The gods get angry at him and said, Aeneas, you idiot. We told you to go to Italy, not Carthage. Get your ass moving. So Aeneas is, like, fine, whatever. So he keeps on moving. But now he's, like, really, really angry because his home, Troy, was destroyed. And then he falls in love with Dido in Carthage. And the gods kick him out, okay? So he's really confused. So what he does is he goes into the underworld where he meets his father, Incius."
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      "text": "And his father just died. Because Incius is going to tell him why this is happening, what the gods have planned for you. And when Aeneas talks to Incius, what happens is that the prophecy becomes the history of Rome. And Aeneas is told that when you go to Rome, your son will found a new people, the Romans. The Romans will slowly expand across the Italian peninsula. Then they will conquer Carthage and then conquer all the Mediterranean. And it will become the greatest empire in human history. So it's basically just the same thing as what Justinian told us, right? Then you have Julius Caesar who will give rise to Augustus Caesar. And when this happens, when Rome becomes an empire, it is the end of history. Humanity will be saved. Heaven will come to earth and peace will reign forever. The Pax Romana, okay? And this is why things had to happen the way they happened."
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      "text": "Troy was destroyed for a reason. To found Rome. Aeneas had to go on this long, painful journey in order to build the foundation stone for the greatest empire in human history. Okay? And obviously when Aeneas hears this, he's like, yes, now I understand. Now I can fully commit to my mission. So he goes to Italy where he fights Churnus. Okay? And then it ends with his victory. And now Rome can be born. Okay? So the Aeneas, it's basically the Bible of the Roman Empire. It explains where Rome came from, why Rome is the greatest empire in the world, and where Rome is going. Okay? Does that make sense? So we're going to take this plot line from the Aeneid and compare it to how Dante rewrites this. Okay? And you're going to see a massive contrast. Because here in the Aeneid, the prophecy is one of triumph, one of glory."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "But in Dante's prophecy, it's completely different. Okay? So this is Canto 17. And we're going to read Dante's grandfather telling him what lies in store for him when he leaves heaven, he returns to the real world, what awaits him. Okay? All right."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Okay."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Please read."
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      "start": 7548.12,
      "end": 7607.08,
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      "text": "Like Phaethon, one who still makes fathers wary of sons, when he had heard insinuations, and he, to be assured, came to Clemene, such was I, and such was I seen to be by Beatrice and by the holy lamp that earlier had shifted place for me. Therefore, my lady said to me, display the flame of your desire that it may be seen well stamped with your internal seal. Not that we need to know what you'd reveal, but that you learn the way that would disclose your thirst, and you'd be quenched by what we pour. Oh, my dear root, who, since you've rise so high, can see the point in which all times are present. For just as earthly minds are able to see that two obtuse angles cannot be contained in a triangle, you can see contingent things before they come to be. While I was in the company of Virgil, both on the mountain that"
    },
    {
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      "text": "heals souls and when descending to the dead world, what I heard about my future life were grievous words. Although against the blows of chance, I feel myself as firmly planted as a cube."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, stop, okay, all right. So what he's referring to is the fact that in Inferno and in Purgatory, Virgil was his guide. And during this journey, Dante met individuals who would give him glimpses into his future, okay? And this is the final prophecy. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:07:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 25. Thus my desire would be appeased if I might know what fortune is approaching me. The arrow one foresees arrives more gently. So did I speak to the same living light that spoke to me before, as Beatrice had wished, or as my wish was now confessed. Not with the maze of words that used to snare the fools upon this earth before the Lamb of God who takes away our sins was slain, but with words plain and unambiguous that loving Father hid in me. And yet, yet revealed by his own smile, replied, Contingency, while not extending past the book in which your world of matter has been writ, is yet in the eternal vision all depicted. But this does not imply necessity, just as a ship that sails downstream is not determined by the eye that watches it. And from that vision, just as from an organ that year receives a gentle harmony, what time prepares for you appears to me."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Hippolytus was forced to leave his Athens because of his stepmother's faithless fears, and so must you depart from Florence."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so Hippolytus was the son of Theseus who was exiled unjustly. So the idea is that, yes, Dante, unfortunately when you go home, what will happen to you is that you'll be exiled from Florence unjustly. Okay? They will do a terrible wrong to you, but there's nothing you can do about it, and it's all part of the plan. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "start": 7742.17,
      "end": 7754.39,
      "time_label": "2:09:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 49. This is willed already, sought for, soon to be accomplished by the one who plans and plots, where every day Christ is both sold and bought."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so the man who will plan and plot is the pope, okay? So the pope is going to plot your exile and the removal of your faction from Florence so that you can never, ever return. Okay, this is the pope. He is corrupt. He buys and sells salvation. Keep on going."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:09:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 52. The blame, as usual, will be cried out against the injured party, but just vengeance will serve as witness to the truth that wields it. You shall leave everything you love most dearly. This is the arrow that the bow of exile shoots first. You are to know that you shall know the bitter taste of others' bread, how salt it is, and know how hard a path it is for one who goes descending and ascending others' stairs."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:10:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, all right. So this is the complete opposite of the vision, the prophecy in the Ineos, right? Where Ineos is told about the glory that awaits Rome. And here it's the complete opposite, where Donna is told, yeah, the only thing that awaits you is exile. You'll be blamed for the exile. You lose everything, and you will depend on the mercy, the generosity of others. In other words, you're going to be a beggar all your life, Dante. You'll be a beggar until the end of your life. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "end": 7853.69,
      "time_label": "2:10:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Could this be seen as drawing a parallel between himself and the experiences of that guy, Aeneas, I think his name is Aeneas, from Troy, and the suffering of Christ? Like, could you be drawing this comparison that he is suffering to bring about greatness, like, a new life?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, that's exactly the parallel. So you say two things, okay? Yes, clearly he is referencing Aeneas and his journey and the prophecy from the Inean, okay? Because the Inean is basically his template to write the Divine Comedy. But you also point out that Jesus is not really mentioned in the Divine Comedy, guys, right? He's referenced, but he's not mentioned direct, well, he is mentioned directly, but he doesn't appear in the Divine Comedy, right? And so you can make the imaginative leap that Dante is really presenting himself as a Christ figure in the Divine Comedy, the one who must suffer, the one who must die in order to bring about salvation in the world, okay? So, yeah, thank you for that. Any more questions, guys? All right, let's keep on going."
    },
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      "start": 7911.23,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 61. And what will be most hard for you to bear will be the scheming, senseless company that is to share your fall into this valley. Against you, they will be insane, completely ungrateful and profane, and yet soon after, not you, but they will have their brows blood -dred. Of their insensate acts, the proof will be in the effects, and thus your honor will be best kept if your party is yourself. Your first refuge and your first inn shall be the courtesy of the great Lombard. He who on the ladder bears the cross the sacred bird..."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:12:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so when Dante's exiled, he's exiled with his political faction, right? The white Guelphs. And obviously, when they're a faction, they're angry about this, and they want vengeance. So they're plotting how to get back and kill their enemies, the black Guelphs. And what the grandfather is saying to Dante is, do not partake in this politics. These people have gone insane with hatred and bloodlust, okay? They can only end up dead. You have to not only live in poverty, not only must you be a beggar, but you must abandon everyone you know in order for you to seek the true path, okay? This is not just exile, it is also isolation. It doesn't make sense, all right? But at the same time, you will find generous patrons who will give you food and housing, and that is your salvation, yes?"
    },
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      "start": 8010.31,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "I think something else that he gives up is vengeance. Like, I know that the urge to avenge yourself is extremely strong, and it will be hard, given his anger, to give up vengeance. But the truth is, passion is like a cup within us, and a cup can only hold so much water. So if you fill the cup with hatred, with vengeance, then you have no place left for God. And what Dante is doing is clearing out the hatred and the vengeance, so he has more place in his cup for God."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:13:57",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, okay. So let's be clear, okay? You have to be right in that he needs to clear his hatred, he needs to clear his vengeance. At the same time, we need to recognize that when he goes in exile, when he becomes isolated, when he is dependent on the mercy and charity of others, that only makes him even more angry and vengeful and hateful, right? So then the question then is, how can he go about dissipating and cleansing himself of all this hatred, anger, and vengeance? And the answer, of course, is? By riding the inferno? By riding the inferno. By going on this journey to hell to see that hatred, vengeance, can only lead you to hell, okay? It's something that he must experience for himself in order to cleanse himself. That's why you must first go to hell before you go to heaven. Because you must experience for yourself that anger and hatred can only lead in one direction, okay?"
    },
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      "start": 8098.7,
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      "time_label": "2:14:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "All right, let's keep on going."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:15:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 73. And so benign will be his care for you that with you two, in giving and in asking, that shall be first, which is, with others, last. You shall, beside him, see one who, at birth, had so received the seal of this strong star that what he does will be remarkable. People have yet to notice him because he is a boy. For nine years and no more have these spheres wheeled around him. But before the Gascon gals the noble Henry, some sparks will have marked the virtue of the Lombard, hard labor and his disregard for silver."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:15:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so now he's just sucking up to his patron, right? He's in exile. His patron is the one who is financing the writing of Divine Comedy. He's saying what a great guy this guy is. He's selfless. He will do great things, okay? Keep on going."
    },
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      "start": 8160.49,
      "end": 8216.82,
      "time_label": "2:16:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 85. His generosity is yet to be so notable that even enemies will never hope to treat it silently. Put trust in him and in his benefits. His gifts will bring much metamorphosis. Rich men and beggars will exchange their states. What I tell you about him you will bear, inscribed within your mind, but hide it there. And he told you, he told things beyond belief, even for those who will yet see them. Then he added, son, these are glosses of what you had heard. These are the snares that hide beneath brief years. Yet I'd not have you envying your neighbors. Your life will long outlast the punishment that is to fall upon their treacheries. After that holy soul had, with a silence, showed he was freed from putting in the wolf across the web whose warp I set for him, I like a man who, doubting, craves for counsel from one who sees and rightly"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0234",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=8216s",
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      "start": 8216.82,
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      "time_label": "2:16:56",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "wills and loves, replied to him, I clearly see, my father, how time is hurrying toward me in order to deal me such a blow as would be most grievous for him who has not set for it. Thus it is right to arm myself with foresight that if I lose the place most dear, I may not lose the rest through what my poems say. Down in the world of endless bitterness and on the mountain from whose lovely peak I was drawn upward by my lady's eyes, and afterward from light to light in heaven, I learned that which, if I retell it, must for many have a taste too sharp, too harsh. Yet if I am a timid friend of truth, I fear that I may lose my life among those who will call this present, ancient times. The light in which there smiled, the treasure I had found within it, first began to dazzle, as would a golden mirror in the sun."
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw/transcript/#seg-0235",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=8273s",
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      "start": 8273.02,
      "end": 8330.53,
      "time_label": "2:17:53",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Then it replied, a conscience that is dark either through its or through another's shame indeed will find that what you speak is harsh. Nevertheless, all falsehood set aside, let all that you have seen be manifest, and let them scratch wherever it may itch. For if, at the first taste, your words molest, they will, when they have been digested, end as living nourishment, as does the wind, so shall your outcry do. The wind that sends its roughest blows against the highest peaks, there is little cause for claiming honor. Therefore, within these spheres, upon the mountain, and in the dismal valley, you are shown only those souls that unto fame are known. Because the mind of one who hears will not put doubt to rest, put trust in you, if given examples with their roots unknown and hidden, or arguments too dim to unappearance. Thank you."
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 8330.53,
      "end": 8395.17,
      "time_label": "2:18:50",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, great, thank you. All right, so what we're gonna do now is we're gonna try to put everything together, okay? This morning, we discussed the central dilemma facing Dante, okay? First of all, he has to make sense of why his life sucks, why he's in exile, why he's begging people for charity. At the same time, he's trying to figure out why the world sucks. Why is it that there's so much chaos, there's so much infighting, there's so much treachery, there's so much hatred, there's so much vengeance? And we talked about how previously there was hope that great individuals such as Francis and Dominic would change the character of the Catholic Church so that it would become less corrupt. But instead, the Catholic Church maintained to be corrupt and changed the radical nature, changed the nature of the Franciscans and the Dominicans, okay? So what hope is there in this world? Okay, that's the central question."
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:19:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "In a world of complete darkness, where is the light, okay? All right, so now we just read the prophecy given to Dante saying, yeah, your life is really, really gonna suck after you leave heaven. You've been to hell. You've been in purgatory. Now you're in heaven. You've seen the universe. And when you return, it's gonna be one of exile, one of isolation, one of poverty. And yet Dante has now purpose, just like Aeneas, right? Aeneas here hears that he will found a great empire called Rome, and that excites him. That propels him to greatness. That propels him to victory. And now Dante hears, oh, yeah, when you go home, you're just going to suffer all the time. Yet it also propels him to purpose and to greatness. Why? What is going on here? Why would the idea of exile and isolation give him hope? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ngQzYqgPw&t=8466s",
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      "start": 8466.76,
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      "time_label": "2:21:06",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "So the difference between Dante and most people who go through exile and isolation is that he's given a preview. He's given a peek behind the curtain. When we say that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven, the rich man will say to you, well, I can't see that far. Or maybe they don't have the willpower to keep themselves from being wealthy and being evil. However, Dante has had a glimpse of what lies behind the veil, and he knows that his life has a purpose, and it's this guiding light, this actual thing that keeps him going onwards."
    },
    {
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      "start": 8497.91,
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      "time_label": "2:21:37",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. Yes. Let's be more specific and concrete, okay? Okay, let's think about this. Dante, let's imagine Dante, if he didn't actually experience hell, purgatory, and heaven, his grandfather appears to him in a dream. He's at home. His grandfather appears to him in a dream and says that, my grandson, in two years' time, you'll be exiled from the city you love, the city you were born, the city that your family has inhabited for generations. How would he feel? He would feel despair, right? But after he's been through this journey, the same vision, the same faith gives him hope and purpose. Why?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 8555.91,
      "end": 8578.81,
      "time_label": "2:22:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "Yes? Well, also, as a poet, it's a great way to focus your energy into creativity. Well, like, if you take off all the distractions and you put all your energy into creating, then he can think, okay, maybe it's this time, this period of my life where I can just put everything I know and all my, everything I can accomplish."
    },
    {
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      "start": 8579.03,
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      "time_label": "2:22:59",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, so that's a good start, okay? Um, if he is to achieve Divine Comedy, he needs to go into isolation. Okay? This is an isolation that doesn't last 20 years, by the way. It doesn't take about 20 years to finish Divine Comedy. Um, okay, so that's the start, okay? He appreciates that his purpose is to go into exile and isolation in order to write this Divine Comedy. This raises a question like, well, that kind of sucks. I, it's like going to prison for 20 years and then my reward will be I'm dead. Right?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 8619.01,
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      "time_label": "2:23:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Um, so I am reminded of something I once saw on a Catholic website. So it was actually about a saint, a former nun, a saint. And her, it was one of her quotes. And she said, uh, I, I am impatient to suffer and die for Christ. So there's this, let's say there's this almost preoccupation with suffering and the ennobling of the spirit in Christian, in Catholic, uh, theology. Like, they think that suffering, especially in the name of Christ, ennobles the spirit. So maybe Dante is subconsciously, uh, subconsciously likening himself to a Christ figure. And he thinks that suffering for the sake of Christ, for the sake of his great work, is a sign of his faith. And he would be nobler for this suffering than he would be if he did not suffer."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:24:27",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah, okay. And that's not wrong. And that's exactly what Francis and Dominic felt as well, okay? But let's, let's think about this, okay? You're Dante. And you're writing Divine Comedy not for yourself, not for God, but for others to read as well. So you want others to be as inspired as you in serving God, right? You understand? So he has someone convince you to be like him. Yeah, I mean, like, of course he understands that the exile and the isolation will allow him to write Divine Comedy, but he needs you to move you, inspire you in a way that allows you to understand why he's doing what he's doing and also to want to emulate him, right? To want to also go into exile and isolation in order to be truly creative. So how does he do that? All right? Let's not, let's just imagine him just as a normal person, just like you and me, okay?"
    },
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      "start": 8724.77,
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      "time_label": "2:25:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "He's no different. And he is in the situation where he knows he's going into exile and isolation for the next 20 years to write Divine Comedy. And after he finishes, he's gonna die. That's what the prophecy says. So how does he find hope and purpose in this fate?"
    },
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      "start": 8758.88,
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      "time_label": "2:25:58",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "Maybe it's kind of inspiration because as a writer, you must have an inspiration. Which could allow you to have great work. So maybe I think what Stanton wanted to do is not just try to make money, but he just tried to create a masterpiece in his own life. So maybe that is the reason why he got hope. Okay, all right. So let's think about the sequence of events, okay?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 8780.3,
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      "time_label": "2:26:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "This prophecy doesn't happen in hell. It doesn't happen in purgatory. It happens in paradise. And it is the last prophecy before he goes and fulfills his destiny, which is to meet God. Okay? So what does he learn in hell, purgatory, and paradise which prepares him to accept this prophecy? What is it? These past two days, what have we learned about the universe? What are some ideas that we've learned these past two days? Let's just start naming them, okay? Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 8825.46,
      "end": 8834.78,
      "time_label": "2:27:05",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "Maybe it's because he witnessed the light and the greatness and the beauty of God with his own eyes, and that gives him the courage to continue."
    },
    {
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      "start": 8834.84,
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      "time_label": "2:27:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, okay. Again, you're being too general. I want specifics. What did we discuss these past two days? And what impact would they have on Dante and how they would change the way he sees the world, okay? Ask yourself this question. These past two days, how have reading Dante changed the way you've seen yourself and the world? Think about this question, okay? Use your intuition. Use your imagination. How have I changed in the way that I see the world?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:27:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "Yes? Well, you see the human himself as like the middle of the universe, and he's like what embodies the universe, and through our actions, we can improve the universe or person it. Okay, yeah, exactly."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:28:06",
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      "text": "The first thing he recognizes is that you matter. Your actions matter. Regardless of who you are, you do matter, okay? But Carta, I mean, she did something really, really good. I mean, like, she bowed herself to God, and then she broke this vow, and it matters, okay? In her mind, it's like, what? I mean, like, God's really, really busy, right? God's, like, taking care of the universe, and I'm just like this little prince, princess in this poor little place, and I break a vow, but I hurt no one, and I was faithful to him all this time, but my one little action at this one time does matter. It matters so much that it changes the universe, okay? That's the first thing that Donnie realizes. I do matter, okay? So what I write does matter. That's empowering, don't you think? Right? Because, like, why else am I spending 20 years writing a poem?"
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      "text": "And the answer is because God is watching you, because everything you write will be read by God, and then it will be reflected throughout the universe. With my actions, I can change the very trajectory of the universe, okay? That's the first thing that we learn. What else did we learn? Yes?"
    },
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      "text": "I think it's also important to remember that this is a two -sided coin. Like, on one hand, your actions matter, and you can change the universe. On the other hand, your misactions matter, and your misactions could make the universe worse. So instead of this constant fear of damnation or constant fear of hellfire, Dante replaced it with a humanistic fear of, what will my actions truly do? Like, he is taking the reins back from the devil, and he's giving the reins to himself."
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      "text": "Yes, okay, this is really important, guys, okay? At this time in history, the Catholic Church tells you to fear God. You understand? Live a life of fear. Do not do anything because you'll probably screw it up, right? And what we learn is God is love. God will never judge you. Only you judge yourself. Therefore, just live the life you want to live. Live your best life. Aspire to greatness. And that's what God wants, okay? God wants will. He wants desire. He wants you to be your creative best. So don't worry about angering him. Don't be afraid of him. Love him as much as he loves you, right? Okay? Good. Really important, guys, okay? One, we do matter. Everything we do does matter. Number two is God is nonjudgmental. He will never, ever punish you. He will never punish you for doing what you think is right. Okay? Just follow your heart. Good. What else? What else have we learned these past few days?"
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      "text": "Just ask yourself, what have you learned these past few days? What ideas have stuck in your head?"
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      "text": "Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_05",
      "text": "That the fear of unknown stops you from aspiring to the higher. Yeah. Right. Good. Yeah. Don't be afraid."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Just love. Just trust. Okay? Because love is the underlying principle of the earth. The universe. God is all love. Okay? Don't be afraid. Take the risk. Take that leap of faith. Good. What else?"
    },
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      "text": "Like, follow your heart and do the free will and do not be restricted by the material world."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yes. Exactly. Okay? Don't care about the judgment of others. If God's not going to judge you, no one else is going to judge you. Okay? Just follow your intuition. Just follow your heart. Do what you believe is right. What else?"
    },
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      "text": "Yes? You have to forgive yourself. Forgive yourself to be a better person."
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      "text": "Okay. Yes. Okay. Let go of the past. Forgive yourself. Good. What else?"
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      "text": "You need to care about poor guy because if you care about them and even give them money, maybe you will go to heaven with him. No. That's not what I thought."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. Also, the most important thing, of course, is that there is intentionality in the universe. They are all part of God's grand design. Remember? The metaphor that Beatrice uses is the body. Right? God is the mind. We're all part of the body. So we are moving towards God's plan. Okay? All right? So this is all that we've learned these past few days. And think about how, if you believe these things, you no longer fear exile. You no longer fear isolation. Why?"
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      "text": "Yes? Well, because in your heart, you know that you're doing the right thing. Like from your instincts and your intuition, you didn't know if you did the right thing. And obviously, you didn't know if you did the right thing. Obviously, it wouldn't make sense. But if you know just from your intuition that you know the right thing, then it's probably the right thing. You don't need logic or something to figure things out. You just need to..."
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      "text": "So the most important thing, and you say this, is like, the body knows it's not his fault for his exile and isolation. This is really important, guys. Right? It's not my fault. I did everything wrong. Why is this... Yeah?"
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      "text": "So this is something that... Confuses me. Like earlier on, you said that if there's a will, there's a way. And you used the example of Picarda. And Picarda is in a similar situation to Dante. She is oppressed by a militaristic force, and she is forced to go against her vows. And well, how is Dante's situation different? If he believed in will so much, why couldn't he have used the will to find out a way to stay in Florence?"
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      "text": "Okay. All right. So you raised this question, okay? And the answer is their purpose is different. Do you understand? Picarda's will is always to serve God, to be married to God, to live in the nunnery. Right? What is Dante's purpose? What is his purpose?"
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      "text": "Sure."
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      "text": "To write the Divine Comedy, guys. Okay? Do you understand? That's what his will is. His will is not to be the mayor of Florence. His will is not to be the pope. His will is not to conquer his enemies. His will is to be the poet, the greatest poet in human history. That is what he wants. Okay? Do you understand? Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "So as we mentioned, everything has a consequence. And then Dante did end up dying because of malaria after he finished the Divine Comedy. Do you think that is his consequence? Like he had fulfilled his will of writing this poetry, and then after that, his mission is complete? And do you think that is like his will or like God's will or like..."
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. So, okay. That's a great question. Okay? Why is it that he died after he finished Divine Comedy? And I want to say something really strange for you guys, but let me ask you this question. Do you think Dante was a healthy person?"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_07",
      "text": "Probably not. Probably not."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Probably not, guys. Okay? Probably not. He was probably sick most of his life. Right? And that's probably why he had the visions that he did. Because he spent most of his time... Oh my gosh. In bed, dreaming. Right? Yeah. So I would argue that if it weren't for Divine Comedy, he'd probably be dead at 40. He started Divine Comedy at maybe around 40 and he died in his 50s. Do you understand? Yeah. Okay? I mean, it was his will that kept him going. Yeah. Right? So you could say, well, it was because he spent so much effort into writing Divine Comedy that he exhausted his body and he caught malaria and then he died. But you could also argue, well, the guy was probably not healthy to begin with. Okay? Most of these poets are not athletes. They're not the healthiest people you will meet. They're often daydreaming or getting drunk or something. Okay?"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:36:42",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "But they're not working out and stuff. Okay? Does that make sense? Yeah. Yes?"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "So something I'm curious about is Dante's attitude towards predetermination. If you look at this passage, so he's basically prophesying to himself. At his time, while he was writing this passage. All of these things that the angel has said to an allegedly past version of himself has already happened. So he is trying to frame this as, okay, I've been told that this is going to happen. This is not a surprise to me at all, which just seems very wishy -washy to me."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay. All right. Okay. Let's be clear. Okay? Dante is writing this not to console himself. Okay? But to give us hope. Does that make sense? Okay? Because we are Dante in the poem. So when we read this, we shouldn't feel despair for the fact that we're going into exile. It should give us hope. We're trying to figure out why this is the case. All right? Number one, and this is the most important, is we know it's not our fault. Right? Okay? And this has been important because what's the number one reason why the voice traumatizes children? You guys know? If they think it's their fault. Okay? And that's why. If they didn't think it was their fault, the voice wouldn't matter. Okay? But children think this divorce was my fault, and that's what traumatizes them. Okay? So Dante hears it and is like, oh, it's not my fault. This is all preordained. And they will"
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      "start": 9495.69,
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      "time_label": "2:38:15",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "blame me, but God himself knows that it's not my fault, so my heart can rest at peace. Okay? I can forgive myself. I can forgive others. Okay? So let's focus on this, guys. Okay? Number one is... Let's see all this clearly. Number one is Dante knows it's not his fault. Okay? Let's keep on going. What now? I know, but let's think about the psychology. Okay? You know it's not your fault. Now what?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 9535.86,
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      "time_label": "2:38:55",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "I'm interested in how he just accepted this fate."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_08",
      "text": "Yeah."
    },
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      "start": 9540.62,
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      "time_label": "2:39:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "Because if it's his fault, he was like, yeah, I deserve this. But it's not his fault. I'm just like, why this kind of things, this kind of accident happened? What happened to me? And is he going to feel like kind of unfair or just... Okay. All right. All right. All right. Yeah."
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Go on."
    },
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      "start": 9559.91,
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      "time_label": "2:39:19",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Yeah. Because his... To follow on to the... His fate is part of his destiny. So if he embraces his destiny, I think that would be what's next. Embracing his destiny."
    },
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      "time_label": "2:39:30",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Yeah. He now appreciates, this is just my fate. And it was... It's part of God's plan. And it's my purpose to write the Bible. And it's part of God's promise to draw his attention to the redeemer. And we think that's what it is. Sometimes people say, well, if God is trying to, you know, even take this thing, he's So it's going to be like, okay, here. But he's not there. So you have to follow and make someone who that God wants to be your friends. So one of these things that you have to do in the life of God is values. That's a privilege. And I've been telling you, it's not just about... For years. You're going to have a lot of different thoughts about how will God wants you to diesel your family through palm. hope love okay that's his salvation the faith faith is understanding the nature of the universe that god loves"
    },
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      "start": 9619.02,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "us god has a plan and if we just follow the plan by following our intuition things will turn out okay okay we don't know how we don't know why but they'll turn out okay that's what faith is hope is to see what your what the future is the future is you'll finish divine comedy and that's enough okay and then love is why are you doing this you're doing this for love of beatrice love of family love of god okay all right these three things which he discovers"
    },
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      "time_label": "2:40:48",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "here get yes so to sum it up yours you your idea is that dante believes in predetermination by god"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "right okay all right so let's see all this okay this this is a good question okay this is actually a really good question so thank you okay we just said these past two days that free will is fundamental law of the universe we also say that if there's a prophecy then there has to be predetermination so how can we make sense of this paradox is this a paradox yes that arrow the the arrow thing that"
    },
    {
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      "start": 9692.45,
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      "time_label": "2:41:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "the the girl was mentioning right because because if there's no ordinal relationship between those things predetermination is just determination there's no what's what comes first and what comes next"
    },
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      "start": 9704.65,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "okay yes well i just i just say that free will is like there's a there's like a plan but like we can choose through free will to either follow it or not follow it like there is definitely a plan for every person but like you don't have to follow this but people that go against the intuition"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "2:42:03",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "right like they do that's right yeah okay so remember what free will is okay god loves you god is trying to pull you back to him because there's the aspect of god inside of you right you desire to return to god okay this is the fundamental logic of the universe god loves you god's calling you back to him you love god you're returning to god but you have the free will to deny god and turn away from god that is the free will uh yes"
    },
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      "text": "so follow -up question so if god has a plan and god allows you to use your free will to turn away the let's look at the people who prosecuted dante who drove him out of flores so are you because god knows that these people are going to drive him out from flores therefore god must have set the plans for these people and therefore god god's plan for these people his all -good plan for these people is for them to do such an evil thing to drive him out of flores so why does anyone want to respond to"
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      "text": "this those people sin on their own on behalf of their own free will right it's not god's plan for"
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      "text": "them to commit do what they did in that case how did god know about it okay okay you're assuming"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "god that cares what happens here god doesn't really care what happens here right what god's plan is is for us to return to him does that make sense god is calling for us and we want to return to him so our actions here is to return to him okay and what happens here on this planet doesn't really impact um this grand logic does that make sense um i don't i don't think you made it clear"
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      "text": "like how how god knew that what the bad guys were gonna do if the bad guys really had free will and if they and if god god's plan for these bad people is for them to be bad how could a good god"
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      "text": "do this thing right so in this prophecy what happens to all these people who have persecuted dante they have a worse fate than dante you understand yes don't they have exile in isolation but these people have a much worse fate than you do so what what's the problem here"
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      "text": "the problem is uh if god's plan is for these people to be bad then how can a almighty good god like make people do bad and then condemn them to hell it's like playing a puppet show why would"
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      "text": "you make the bad puppet well i mean i mean if you do bad things bad things are gonna happen to you right if i hit you you're gonna hit me back"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "i think there uh shouldn't be the dichotomy of bad and good in any serious academic discussion i mean we are uh you know in a very complex world and uh of course there is the retribution there is uh you know uh good and bad but we cannot really you know just attack or anybody or any events with the bad uh you know it's a very simple uh um you know a type of good and bad which will make discussion very difficult so i i think the the minor characters uh in dante's life or in dante's books uh um you know are also part of the plan as dante intended but um um but you cannot see that their actions are evil uh and therefore it's not be tolerated by god i don't think there is there is no need there is no need to be evil there's any need to discuss even this logic. Okay,"
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      "text": "all right, you, yes?"
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      "text": "Yeah, I was thinking, I think earlier we were making a point where people do what they think is good based on their judgment. So I was thinking what if those people were doing what they thought was good, was the right thing, and then they sent Dante in exile, but then it was objectively bad because God didn't want it, so that's why they got punished. That was kind of my interpretation, I don't know."
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      "text": "Okay, look, the situation is never as complicated as this. Sorry, the situation is never as simple as this, right? What happened was that Dante was sent into exile, and he said, and they said to him, you can come back, but you must confess to certain crimes. And Dante's like, no, screw you, I didn't do anything wrong. Do you understand? Oh, yeah. So it's not simple, it's not black and white. Okay, okay. Do you understand? Yeah. Okay, never in life are things black and white. There are four people here, okay? So let's go one by one, okay? You first."
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      "text": "It's also that we're framing the people who say exiled Dante, they were doing a bad thing. But if they had been more pure in their thinking and their intentions, maybe they wouldn't have gone against Dante. So they had, maybe God had a good predetermined plan for them, but they went against it because they didn't look at the situation in the right way."
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      "text": "Okay, all right, okay. Okay, so something I wanna say is this, okay? No one is really at fault because the situation in Italy is one of complete chaos and warfare, okay? It's kill or be killed. So in their eyes, what they're doing is they're trying to protect their families, they're trying to protect their children, okay? So this is a problem that Dante is facing, okay? He's trying to deal with. We live in evil time where everyone is forced to the evil. And so what can we do about it, okay? That's a question that Dante is facing. For whatever reason, we just end up in a situation where evil rules. And those who commit the most evil are usually the ones who triumph in this world. Maybe not in the next world, maybe they'll go to hell, but in this world, they will always triumph. And so what can we do about this? And the answer isn't, oh, we'll just wait for God's judgment day."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "No, no, there has to be a different answer. We're trying to figure out what it is, okay? Yes?"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "Yeah, something that came to mind on top of what we just discussed was simplicity. When Dante embraced his destiny to write divine comedy, it simplified his whole worldview down into, it's something that comes to mind is simplicity is close to God. Whatever God is, whatever love is, it's simple. I don't know if that makes sense."
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "No, it makes perfect sense, right? He now has focus. Before he had doubt, he had ego, he had fear. Now he just has focus. Like I'll just write divine comedy and I won't die until I finish it, okay? Now he has complete will. The absolute will is now the contingent will as well, okay? So that's what this prophecy has done for me. It's given him the future and he knows his place in the universe, okay? Did you have a comment or question?"
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      "text": "Okay, yeah. Well, maybe the point was that Dante, he would have never gone through everything if the people chose to do, not chose to do evil to him. So, it's a bit complicated, but they chose to do that, but if they didn't choose that then through free will, then Dante would have never went through all of this. So, like... How... Like... so in the end it wasn't really a plan from god himself right but what donald recognizes"
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      "text": "recognizes that everything has a purpose do you understand everything has a purpose and that's why he's able to forgive others because as long as he achieves his purpose then everything so"
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      "text": "so he still he still would have achieved his purpose if he wasn't persecuted no he would"
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      "text": "not have been able to because he would not have been in exile right you need isolation you need"
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      "text": "exile in order to write divine comedy so he's so he needed other people to persecute him basically"
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      "text": "um but others were gonna persecute him anyway because this is all political faction fighting right it's all political violence right now yeah okay all right did did you have a question yeah"
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      "text": "because you know first first of all i think the original thing is kind of thing that i've been reading the bible it means that our people have seen this is for sure and you can't say that it's not my fault you can say this is not my saying you know because saying is the original one everyone have to be blamed because we we steal the apple right from the tree and secondly i think the odyssey is also kind of thing maybe that influence maybe because in the odyssey uh you know the hero just always have to excel right so maybe dentings yes maybe dentings are every hero need to be uh"
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      "text": "uh excel maybe okay all right guys okay so let's let's now focus on the question okay the question is dante is in a time of pure hopelessness whenever you do uh ends up causing even more problems and so for dante what is the solution what is the only way forward okay and this tells him you will go into exile in isolation and in exiled isolation it doesn't say this but you're but it's to write divine comedy okay so why would the divine comedy be a possible solution to all this chaos and darkness and violence why uh yes because it"
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      "text": "reunites all the types of thinking the religion and it guides through love and because love is uniting well it's a way to just unite everyone whatever the culture or area what does divine comedy"
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      "text": "do and bring to the world that is missing in europe at this time it just"
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      "text": "like it proposes a solution for people who like went through suffering without understanding why they went through suffering because like they went through suffering before because of obedience but through the catholic church but now he proposes a new solution that you can go through suffering because you actually want to make a positive change in the world and not just like"
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      "text": "obey the church okay but but how okay so you suffer and now you can now explain your suffering what do we call this order no okay so so so think about this okay this is really important what no no think of this before the divine comedy this was not this did not um this was not present in europe and with because of its absence people were committed tremendous violence against each other people were just fighting all the time okay so dante decides i must go into isolation exile in order to write divine comedy in order to bring this into europe right what is divine comedy and why does it change"
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      "text": "the destiny of your forever is it about forgiveness how people as individuals can forget"
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      "text": "forgive their themselves and each other what allows you to forgive someone what allows you to forgive"
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      "text": "their fault and how do you do that by unconditional love observation observation is not enough what else do you need let's let's talk concretely okay no let's let's figure this out let's talk concretely we we forgive someone okay just tell us a story and we'll figure out what's going on like if"
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      "text": "like but what allowed you to know it was his emotions like knowledge about what what knowledge empathy empathy yes okay what allows for empathy love wisdom okay when you're saying when we're saying there's aONCYc desktop who is doing why we're early reading which isカ 시작 person hit me because he's angry he's emotional so he lost control what are"
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      "text": "know you go above him in your knowledge and reasoning what does it mean to go above your reasoning and your knowledge you put yourself into his shoes or him"
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      "text": "how do you do that though imagination the imagination guys if you do understand the imagination yes I think it's also like looking inside yourself"
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      "text": "inside like uh before like when Donnie was first exiled he was not thinking about all of us he was thinking about the outside he was thinking objectively these guys harmed me and objectively I'm so angry about it but when he looks inside that he can find the strength to continue and the strength to forgive so he's using this to tell people to look inside not outside yeah because empathy"
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      "text": "were exactly okay does that make sense to you okay when you forgive someone it's an act of imagination right because you're imagining that if I were that person I would also get angry and hit someone do you understand sometimes"
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      "text": "it's also knowledge like in some case you can imagine the person and then sometimes you just know why he's angry right and that now is a solution right"
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      "text": "if we can increase the imagination of everyone in Europe this violence this infighting this chaos this greed this corruption would have to decrease not coming in you can't do that but it would have to at least decrease does that make sense and before people lack an imagination why why did people lack an"
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      "text": "imagination obedience to God that's the Catholic Church the obedience but what"
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      "text": "emotion was limiting your imagination what emotion what emotion limits your imagination is what a fear right you understand so let's go back to your instance where someone hits you right if you're afraid what do you do you hit him back you understand so it's the fear that limits your imagination and at this time in Europe fear is dominant emotion so if Dante is to release people from their fear he must prove to everyone that God is love understand and once he does that the imagination now is released and people can be imaginative and this will mark a new age in Europe and basically let Europe conquer the world my question now is how does Dante prove to everyone that God is love everyone now lives in a time when they're afraid of God when they think that if I sin God will punish me and send me to hell for all eternity the fear is"
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      "text": "what limits the imagination what allows Dante to prove to the world that God is love don't be afraid of God yes so basically he's"
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      "text": "making the unknown unknown so like people are scared of hell they're scared of burning in hellfire and to be honest they don't really know that heaven exists here and Dante and Dante in the story here he's taking the role of a pilgrim and he's going to all these places and he's like a tour guide and he's saying oh guys this is here this is that this happens that happens as long as it doesn't happen to you and he's turning the unknown into a no and that's how you lose fear"
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      "text": "okay so let's just say that Dante opens University and says and this University I'm going to teach you to be not afraid of God and here are the reasons why you should be afraid of God okay would it work probably not okay but probably not because we know that same as Thomas Aquinas tried it didn't work the Franciscans tried it didn't work the Dominicans tried it didn't work okay but he was able to prove that God is love how he has to live it to me he has to live it and he has to"
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      "text": "write the Divine Comedy to channel himself as the example okay yes okay the Divine Comedy is what"
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      "text": "proves it do you understand because what's the Divine Comedy yes go ahead well um you know God"
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      "text": "loves you because he gave you the free will like you like I mean the Divine Comedy says that through your own fate or your own destiny but that's just logic that's just reason I'm saying like like how"
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      "text": "do you convince someone that God is love right and that's what Divine Comedy yeah all right so what's going on why would the Divine Comedy prove that God is love and we just said that if Dante were to open University and lecture on God is love it wouldn't work no one would care"
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      "text": "uh they need to let the readers or the audience go on the journey uh like he did to embody and to emphasize what is art guys tell me"
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      "text": "what what is art why is art different from everything else yes uh it's like the difference"
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      "text": "between a encyclopedia definition of the emotion anger and a piece of art titled anger so like the encyclopedia edition tells you it doesn't show you it tells you what anger is it's quickening of the post cortisol Etc Etc but the art you look at the art and you feel it for yourself you can interpret it for yourself even but with your intuition you arrive at the same general conclusion an art is a channel of"
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      "text": "consonants between the creator and the observer or the experiencer"
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      "text": "truth uh truth because Divine Comedy if Divine Comedy contains the truth and reflects the truth over time across dimensions across different mediums it'll persist and therefore it's proven yes okay yes did"
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      "text": "you have a yeah uh art is just like expression of like just expression of of of um ideas that you get from God you don't like philosophy for example it's just like logical thinking and you can do that by yourself but expression to express art you need a higher form to be inspired by something okay okay"
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      "text": "all right so so let's be very specific okay again use your intuition did you have a comment or um it's a very simple one so I feel"
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      "text": "like it's just kind of similar to how the Divine Comedy State as long as because we could resonate with it so we believe in it so that's why it's the truth okay okay yes but but"
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      "text": "I want to be specific okay I want each and every one of you to think of a movie or a song or a painting or novel that has changed you can you think of something that has changed you a piece of art that has changed you okay just name it yes uh for example like the"
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      "text": "you know the movie uh determine a terminator because you know the movie that is not a piece"
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      "text": "of art by the way okay inception uh inception okay yeah boostly the movies boostly okay"
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      "text": "historic material is by philip pullman what what what historical materials is that a novel yeah by by what it's about growing up and it's about his dark materials yeah yeah okay all right okay"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "yes i've actually read that so so i actually know this example okay but tell us why it's changed you"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "as a person why like like philip pullman reading reading his dark materials has given me a new perspective what happens after i die so uh this is kind of personal but i used to be a christian i used to have this vague faith that if i was good i would go to heaven and everyone who is bad towards me will go to hell and when i read his dark materials it's like being freed and being burdened all at once so sometimes the sometimes the emotions i feel when i am hurt are no one's fault but my own and any closure that i can find i have to find within this world because after we die all of us are equal every soul is equal and we become new life and we become new life so i need to have initiative i need to forgive and i need to avenge myself okay all right so"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "that's great okay so so this is an example of transformation right your worldview your worldview has changed the way you perceive yourself the way you perceive the world is different but what was it about his dark materials that made this transformation possible uh personally i would"
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      "text": "say is the story it doesn't force a moral upon me i just read the story and i follow the journey of the protagonist and i can emphasize"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "okay all right all right okay yes okay did you have a question or comment"
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      "text": "yeah i think it it names something in yourself that was that used to be unnameable that you don't know how to explain it and someone did it for you and through it's their music you you feel that um emotions in your heart that like finally now you you you had this realization that that oh this really speaks to me and now i know how to resonance right yeah all right so"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "so so let's go back to the start materials okay let let me ask you this question okay do you did you cry when you read his dark materials yeah did you laugh yeah did you were you angry yes extremely okay so do you understand guys first and foremost art is an intense emotional experience you guys understand this if a song moved you the movie touched you it's because it was an intense emotional experience for you and that's one two is this intensive of emotions what it does is it goes into you or it opens you and allows for the entry of the ideas into you okay and these ideas these words these songs these melodies it's almost like a virus that grows over time right so the transformation doesn't happen like today but it happens over time and you don't even know it's happening and then over time what happens is that your very perception"
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      "text": "of reality changes it does that make sense that is why the divine comedy was proof of god okay because god could enter you and god could transform the way you saw the world that's what what divine comedy is meant to do it's meant to fill you with love it's meant to fill you with God it's meant to give you hope faith and love do you understand it's a piece of art so what it does is what every piece of art does it shakes you emotionally it makes you afraid it makes you happy it makes you angry it makes you it makes you emotional okay it's able to do so because it's truth and beauty does that make sense all right and that's why divine comedy marks a radical turning point in European history it doesn't happen right away right it takes about a hundred years but because it's so beautiful because it's so truthful people"
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      "text": "are drawn to it they will read it and when they read it they will transform because of it and as they are transformed because of it it would inspire them to create tremendous pieces of art the Renaissance those painters Michelangelo Donatello they all read the line comedy okay this is why and how do we know this because the Renaissance occurred in what city Florence is it all just a coincidence right why Florence and why not Venice why not Genoa right why Florence specifically it doesn't make sense guys wouldn't wouldn't they like ban the"
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      "text": "Divine Comedy and Florence because it's from Dante and they accept"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "them that's a really good point okay so if you analyze this and you're like wait a minute here it's heretical it's heresy it's critical of the of Catholic church they were not dare ban this why not"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_03",
      "text": "no they were not their bandits Eckler and it's uh already uh got into a false of itself so it's any man would fall if bonnet then it won't just backfire oh no there's there's a very good reason"
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      "text": "why maybe we're not their Bandit of my comedy why not either some history shop come from if someone like Leonardo appears he's able to take the Mona Lisa how is he able to do this"
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      "text": "it would go against God because they're like Divinely inspired pieces of work exactly you"
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      "text": "understand this okay to try to burn down a painting"
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      "text": "to destroy an artwork would be to go against god that who dares goes against god right because at this time in history you see leonardo paint the mona lisa right you ask mona lisa hey leonardo how were you able to do this he told you i didn't do this god did this right there's no other explanation he's like well because of my synapses were connected in a certain way no it's like god sorry yeah yeah again i'm gonna nitpick your logic here so you said that"
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      "text": "uh dante's divine comedy and the renaissance accord occurred to in the same city florence and you say that that's because of dante's or by extension of god's influence and i would have to say that there are genuine historical reasons why florence is a fertile ground for the renaissance there is the inflow of trade caravans and there's it's a fractured nature a fractured state actually contributes to a flourishing of diverse ideas and there is a status as a city instead of a suburb so there's a high concentration of intellectuals and it's traditional status as a seminary as a place of education so i think there's loads of reasons and it's not necessarily"
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      "text": "because of dante i don't dispute this and if you talk to any academic he'll explain to you these very reasons okay you have the mid -day cheese the begging family for the pages of the arts you're the fact that this is a city -state system so there's no central authority the pope cannot enforce this authority on florence you had as you point out the trade the wealth there are lots and lots of really good reasons okay but my question is why florence and not venice virgin noah or any other of these italian city -states right what did and what did it happen after dante not before dante in fact the renaissance happened i would say about 100 years after the death of dante okay and that's enough time for the divine economy to fully fully incubate the culture does that make sense because you need to create mass right so maybe after donnie died there"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "may be like 50 manuscripts and then maybe 100 manuscripts and then a thousand manuscripts okay but you need time for this artwork to fully embed itself in the imagination and in the culture okay okay so so again we can argue forever what was the cause of the renaissance okay but i'm just saying for this class the purpose of this class just take the sleep of faith and trust me when i say that it was dante's divine comedy that enabled the renaissance okay all right personally i would"
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      "text": "say that it was a huge factor in renaissance but i would not say that it was indirectly enabled it it was just a step in the great river of history okay well what i would like to do"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 11559,
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      "time_label": "3:12:39",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "is teach dante to the entire world and we'll see which parts of the world accept dante and i guarantee you the parts of the world that accept dante regardless of where they are it could be in china it could be in the middle east it could be in africa i don't care which part but i guarantee you this whichever parts of the world make dante part of the curriculum make every child read dante i guarantee you they will flourish more than other parts of the world i make you this promise okay uh yes that's super powerful we shall see then yeah and that's my mission okay this is why i'm teaching dante right now it's part of a larger mission to spread dante around the world i guarantee you those parts of the world that do uh love dante will flourish what what does florence mean by the way you guys know firenze spring right"
    },
    {
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      "text": "i find men flourishing"
    },
    {
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      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "yeah flourish spring flora same thing"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "3:13:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "right okay and what's it greek for flourishing do you guys know what's it greek for flourishing eudaimonia anyway anyway anyway i went off topic anyway okay but like you see see how what's happened right dante is facing dilemmas okay his life sucks all of europe sucks okay and then he has this prophecy he understands okay now my mission is to divine comedy okay that's why i'm going to exile that's why i'm going into isolation because by random and comedy i can bring the imagination to the world and it's imagination that is our salvation all right so the divine comedy must be the greatest piece of art in the world for this to happen and if i were righted i don't have to fear the catholic church because the catholic church knows this must be the work of god all right i can say whatever i want i don't care what i say as long as"
    },
    {
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      "start": 11684.61,
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      "time_label": "3:14:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "it's beautiful and truthful it will um be saved okay and so what saves it is the poetry the beauty of the words right and again unfortunately we don't speak italian uh but if you were actually to read the divine comedy in italian you cannot help but be emotional all right you cannot help but be moved by the words and um you will feel i think you i i i actually don't know this because i never tried but i i i bet that for some people they actually have an out -of -body experience where they will actually transcend the physical form and be more in touch with the divine it would be like taking out ayahuasca or a psychedelic of some sort okay all right if you were to actually practice um resetting the divine comedy does that make sense yes um i'm just uh you said that any"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:15:44",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "any any country any any region that adopts dante as part of the core curriculum would flourish and i would just like to point out that the country that most definitely does this right now is probably uh italy and i don't know what's your opinion now how they're doing but i don't think"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "yeah uh yes well actually i was in italy in florence and or near florence and i've talked to people who studied the divine comedy for six years and they they all say that they hated it because the teacher didn't like they like they didn't do it like teachers like you it's like totally different experience they they like only looked at the grammar and at the language but they didn't actually like understand what you're saying about the law of an imagination it's like really like plain yeah okay like they don't teach it the same way as you teach look look look look you can make"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-04ngqzyqgpw",
      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "start": 11800.9,
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      "time_label": "3:16:40",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "anything terrible by making it by testing it right like you just add test anything it's gonna be terrible because you're not but because tests just force you to abandon your imagination right and that's why i say you want to read the divine comedy you have to use your intuition your imagination okay and you just truly understand it then you will transcend okay does that make sense all right okay all right so now let's talk more about faith love and hope okay i want to be very specific here about what these things are so we're going to do is we're going to go to candle 24. i'll set the scene okay the scene is dante and beatrice are in heaven and they and beatrice becomes dante's teacher and they were exploring the cosmos to find more about how heaven works to find out the nature of reality the nature of god so what do you think"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:17:41",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "happens now you guys guess you guys know what happens now we just talked about this you learn and you finish your learning and now what"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "you give me a test供"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #3 (Wednesday, June 17 10AM)",
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      "time_label": "3:18:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "There's going to be a test, guys, okay? There's going to be a test. Yes. So before Dante can meet God, he has to prove he's worthy. And to do that, you have to pass an examination or an oral examination. So there's going to be three apostles, Peter, John, and James. And each of these apostles is going to test Dante on a concept. The first concept is faith. What is faith? Second concept is what is hope. Third concept is what is love. And only if Dante answers all three to the satisfaction of these apostles can now he ascend to the highest realm, the imperium. Does that make sense? Okay. So. So this is really funny. You're in heaven, and they make you take an examination. Okay. So you can never, ever escape tests. All right. So this is the test of faith. And by the way, what's happening is that Beatrice has taught Dante, and now Beatrice has to observe Dante, okay?"
    },
    {
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      "start": 11960.35,
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      "time_label": "3:19:20",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "She cannot participate. She cannot help Dante. Dante is now by himself, okay? He now has to prove that he's absorbed the true teachings, of heaven. All right. Okay. So, kind of, kind of, 24."
    },
    {
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      "start": 11975,
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      "time_label": "3:19:35",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Candle 24. Oh, fellowship that has been chosen for the blessed lamb's great supper, where he feeds you so as always to fulfill your need, since by the grace of God, this man receives foretaste of something fallen from your table before death has assigned his time its limit. Direct your mind to his immense desire. Quench him somewhat. You who forever drink from that source, which has, which he has sought and longing seek. So Beatrice and these delighted souls formed companies of spheres around fixed poles, flaming as they revolved, as comets glow, and just as in a clock's machinery to one who watches them, the wheels turn so that while the first wheel seems to rest, the last wheel flies so that those circling dancers, as they danced to different measures, swift and slow, make me a judge of what, their riches wear."
    },
    {
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      "start": 12032.52,
      "end": 12053.2,
      "time_label": "3:20:32",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "Okay, stop. Okay. All right. So guys, um, for homework, not only do I want you to reread what we discussed today, but I also want you to look at artwork imagery inspired by the divine comedy. Okay. It's a very visual poem and there's lots of paintings, lots of artwork inspired by it. So that you know how creative it is, but you all, but you also recognize how crazy all this is. Okay."
    },
    {
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      "start": 12060.53,
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      "time_label": "3:21:00",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Verse 19 from that sphere, which I noted as most precious. I saw a flame come forth with so much glass, so much darkness that none it left behind had greater brightness and that flame world three times brown Beatrice while singing so divine a song that my imagination cannot shape it for me. My pen leaps over it. I do not write our fantasy and all the more so speech are far too gross for painting folds so deep. Oh, you who pray to us with such devotion, my holy sister, with your warm affection, you have released me from that lovely sphere. So after he had stopped his motion, did the blessed flame breathe forth unto my lady and what he said, I have reported here. She answered, Oh, eternal light of that great man to whom our Lord bequeathed the keys of this astonishing gladness. The keys he bore to earth do test this man concerning the faith by which you walked upon the earth."
    },
    {
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      "start": 12127.41,
      "end": 12184.59,
      "time_label": "3:22:07",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "Do you not see his name, upon the sea? Ask him points, light and grave, just as you please, that he loves well and hopes well, and his faith is not concealed from you. You see that place where everything that happens is displayed. But since this realm has gained its citizens through the true faith, it rightly falls to him to speak of faith that he may glorify it. Just as the bachelor candidate must arm himself, and does not speak. until the master submits the question for discussion not for settlement so while she spoke I armed myself with all my arguments preparing for such a questioner and such professing on hearing that light breathe good Christians speak show yourself clearly what is faith I raised my brow then turned to Beatrice whose glance immediately signaled to me to lead to let the waters of my inner source pour forth"
    },
    {
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      "start": 12184.59,
      "end": 12211.89,
      "time_label": "3:23:04",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "then I so may the grace that grants to me to make confession to the chief centurion permit my thoughts to find their fit expression and followed father as this truthful pen of your dear brother wrote that brother who with you set Rome upon the righteous road faith is the substance of the things we hope for and it's the evidence of things not seen and this I I"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:23:31",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "take to be its quiddity okay stop okay all right so what's happening is that uh peter the apostle is now uh testing dante and the first question is what is faith and what don is going to do is he's going to repeat what paul wrote in hebrews okay which is faith what does he say faith faith yeah faith is a substance of the things we hope for and it's evidence of things not seen okay all right so um this entire situation is it's kind of weird why is it weird or paradoxical peter asked dante what is faith and donnie's response is well i'm going to refer to the expert on faith which is paul and i'm going to repeat what paul said which is that faith is the evidence of things unseen"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_18",
      "text": "why is that weird why is this entire situation weird uh yes well because he despises the catholic church and paul is the catholic church so why would he like recite his words and not like the"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "words of jesus or something um so i think despise is a heart is is harsh okay yeah he he he's critical of the catholic church right he thinks the catholic church should be reformed but you know he doesn't believe the catholic church should be abolished but there's something weird going on yes the weird thing going on is that all"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "this while dante is talking about imagination intuition and importance of looking into himself and he criticized the traditional mode of theological learning which is to recite things and then spew it back out in your way when it comes to your own interest and what he's doing right here is that he's reciting something and he's spilling it out so what is he doing here"
    },
    {
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      "title": "Dante Against Obedience",
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "yeah so so it is a bit weird don't you think right so donnie is saying you know you should use your imagination use your will and now he's partaking in an examination right uh hebrews are you looking for hebrews uh hebrews 11 yes hebrews 11 is is where this is um is okay so maybe we'll just read a bit of that okay okay so this is written by paul um he's trying to explain what"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "faith is um hebrews 11 uh niv now faith is confidence in what we hope for and then in a"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "way that we can have assurance about what we do not see um yeah right but it goes on right so so so yeah so so maybe you can have the whole passage okay okay so there's something really weird going on because where are they they're in heaven right so basically who can you have questioning donnie about faith yeah but how about paul because paul is the expert on faith right if you're in heaven right you're going to have to ask paul to ask donnie about about faith so clearly this is a paradox right and this is another way that dante um is signaling that he differs from the official teachings okay so yes he's going to repeat the official doctrine which is that faith is the evidence of things unseen but he's going to make subtle changes to it does it make sense guys because otherwise why not have paul test you all right i"
    },
    {
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      "text": "can just"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "uh read hebrews 11 okay now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see this is what the ancients were commended for by faith we understand that the universe was formed at god's command so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible by faith abel brought god a better offering than cain did by faith he was commended as righteous when god spoke well of his offerings and by faith abel still speaks even though he is dead by faith enoch was taken from this life so that he did not experience death he could not be found because god had taken him away for before he was taken he was commended as one who pleased god and without faith it is impossible to please god because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that"
    },
    {
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      "start": 12502.99,
      "end": 12553.1,
      "time_label": "3:28:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "he knows the Almighty and that one more time we're not to be found and cannot become pardoned by the power of god and that one more time i'm going to admit that we have any of wrong we still there he is is he uh have the power of God like the four of them but these are the founders don't have any power but they have woman but it is true he prevails he promised to grace his kin and will make them啬 uh understanding okay but at the same time we need to be aware that paul's not present this is like really really weird right paul's not present here he's not mentioned here so we have to be suspicious about what's going on okay it seems as though tony's just reciting but tony is going to"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:29:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "make some nuanced changes to this understanding okay can you read please verse 64 and it's the evidence of things not seen and this i take to be its quiddity and then i heard you understand precisely if it is fully clear to you why he has first placed faith among the substances and then defines it as an evidence i next the deep things that on me bestow their image here are hid from sight below so that their being lies in faith alone and on that faith the highest hope is found in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Lord Jesus Christ and thus it is that faith is called a substance and it is from this faith that we must reason deducing what we can from"
    },
    {
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      "text": "syllogisms without our being able to see more thus faith is also called"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:30:11",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "an evidence okay all right okay so again he repeats paul and now he's gonna make adjustments to paul right so faith for paul is the evidence of things unseen it is the divine plan it is what keeps the world together it is what moves history that is what faith is what does dante say and how does it change paul this is a really hard question but let's try to figure this out so paul says that faith is understanding obeying the underlying plan of the universe okay that's what faith is there is a plan there is a god miracles do happen you don't see these things but they do happen that's what faith is you just you don't trust your eyes you trust your heart and then dante says that faith is what binds everything together is what underlies everything how is this different how is this logically different can you repeat what he said the"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "next deep things verse 70 the deep things that"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "on me bestow their image here are hid from sight below so that their being lies in faith alone and on that faith the highest hope is founded and thus it is that faith is called a substance and it is from this faith that we must reason deducing what we can from syllogisms without our being able to see more"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:32:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "thus faith is also called an evidence okay this is really hard okay and I'm actually may get this wrong okay I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know okay but I but but I think there's a difference between what Paul says and what Donnie says Paul says that faith is the belief in a grand plan that faith is what moves the universe but Donnie says"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:32:25",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "something different what what is this yes he's saying that faith are the cornerstones of the universe but that you have to build on these cornerstones by reasoning and syllogism so where does faith come from so he's saying that let me use an example here so let's say that you don't follow Dante's advice and you use logic to define everything so you go to logic your way out of believing that God exists however what Dante is saying here is that you just have to take it as a matter of faith that God exists and then you can build on the fact that God exists and then figure out what you want to what you want to know okay okay"
    },
    {
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      "time_label": "3:33:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "okay all right all right so so okay I'm gonna tell you what I think this is saying and I could be wrong and what I'll just say what I'm saying and we'll see if it matches with the text okay I think in Paul's formulation what he's saying is that the plan already exists and you just have to believe it exists okay it's sort of passive doesn't make sense but what Donnie is saying is that faith is the underlying substance of the universe and it's what moves the universe and it's from faith we can build things but this raises a question like what did they come from in the first place and what he's trying to suggest okay I I may have this wrong what he's trying to suggest is that it's an active thing where we are projecting our faith and what it's faith our faith is what drives the universe okay in other words"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "is what faith is is our imagination and it's the imagination that's the animating force of the universe so we've gotten from Paul which is just passive just accept faith accept miracles happen accept God there's God to one of us active like yeah we are projecting our faith on the universe which creates a universe which move things you understand okay so about us there would be no faith about us there will be no universe that I think is the difference okay so can we just read it again make sure that my interpretation is correct I could be wrong okay but let's read it again and see if this is correct all right first 70."
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "the deep things that on me bestow their image here are hid from sight below so that their being lies in faith alone and on that faith the highest hope is founded and thus it is that faith is called a substance and it is from this faith that we must reason deducing what we can from syllogisms without our being able to see more thus faith is also called an evidence okay what do you"
    },
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      "text": "do you think that this matches the text yes I have a question yes what what are the deep things that on me bestow the image here uh where is it in the first line the deep things that on me bestow"
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      "text": "their image here are hid from sight below so that the being lies in faith alone so I mean he's talking about things like angels and demons and and God itself right the deep things the things underlying reality the things below reality forces"
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      "text": "to me forces like underlying forces things you can't see right spirits right so the spirits must"
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      "text": "exist for something and he's saying it must exist through faith alone right but then what's faith then and how these spirits come to being it must be an active force in the imagination right and the imagination can only come from us or from God and I'm I don't and I'm just interpreting to say"
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      "text": "from us I think okay um this reminds me of an analogy I heard about God being a clockmaker and whether the clockmaker um kind of designs the innards of a clock and leaves it be and the clock runs itself or is there human agency in the clock running and I think um what I hear is that um Paul sounded more passive in that um and and could be what was mentioned as more be determined that things were set in motion but here Dante is your you matter you're an active agent um imagine and do and you're part of um the grand truth and beauty of the universe yes yes and also like reason"
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      "text": "must be based on the imagination right you must believe God exists you must believe there is a plan to the universe and from that you can reason things out okay reason and imagination are not in conflict with each other reason and imagination uh reason is built on top of imagination okay so again we can argue back and forth and I wish we actually had a dynamic scholar in here uh who actually knows this stuff okay but I'm just I'm just guessing okay this is what my intuition is saying he's saying okay do you have footnotes on this"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "I look forward to rereading and I mean this is I mean this is part of okay what's very important"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "about this text okay so so so so we'll figure this out okay so uh we'll go with the go do some research guys okay tell me what this is actually saying I think this is a um you hear suddenly changing the meaning of Paul okay Paul again is passive he's active and what he's saying is that what that is saying that's very important is that faith is imagination when you believe in God you also have to believe in yourself you also have to imagine okay faith is an active uh act of imagine of imagining it doesn't make sense all right okay let's let's keep on going oh yeah so so what do you mean face"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "is kind of thing you have to determine your mind to believe it so it will exist or if you don't believe it and the face just do not exist okay okay so is that what I mean so so so"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "let's let's clarify this okay in science right God doesn't exist if you can't see it it doesn't exist is that correct right and what Don is saying is that if you do it that way you'll never get"
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      "text": "anywhere all right and yes well but no but energy is something that you talk about in science and energy you can see so energy can be God sorry it's not something you can't say something you can't"
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      "text": "measure okay you can measure energy yeah right okay so if you can't actually measure it it doesn't exist but then but then it's like you have all these holes in science which is like what is Consciousness right no one is allowed to ask this question what is Consciousness yes so I'm actually really interested in this question"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "so like uh Dante has has been shown like these deep things right he has been shown these angels and Beatrice is leading down like this I mean I mean the Dante in the story not Dante the author and don't so is the Dante in the story's faith therefore diminished because he has seen and has proof of these things because he's no longer believing them on merit of faith anymore um okay that's a really interesting"
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      "text": "question and I think the simple answer but but but does anyone have a response to this the divine comedy is a product of his faith do you understand it's only by having faith could he write the divine"
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      "text": "comedy no no I'm talking about the Dante in the story"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "not the Dante the offer oh um okay yeah go ahead yeah um I'm just really looking forward to understanding what love in this case in Dante's mind is because it's it looks like faith faith"
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      "text": "looks like love sounds like love so yeah so I think uh you know uh I uh I try to uh read this uh text from on different layers so the fundamental layer for me is textualist layer I'm trying to read everything Italian and in the in the uh you know in the presentation of the concept of face I think I if I'm totally I'm not fluent in Italian but I think the word used for evidence actually is argumenty so it's not evidence it's not it's not evidence so there I think there is a major uh diversion between the English and the Italian uh text so if we take uh take evidence away and and uh change it to the argument so it's not it's on it's on line 76 yeah credenza so English is not an exact line is uh is face I'm talking about evidence evidence evidence evidence in Italian is evidence and in"
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      "text": "uh in the Dante text it is argumenty it never used evidence so it is argument so wait sorry sorry okay so so okay"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "um let's think about what this line actually means faith is the evidence of things unseen what does that line this line actually mean faith is the evidence of things unseen what does this actually"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "mean that it tells you your sin system don't like you you cannot trust your senses because your senses didn't uh doesn't catch catch it but wait wait there's no evidence this exists you"
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      "text": "understand it's all faith faith is the only evidence no I think the only argument I think the"
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      "text": "perfect word argumenty is the perfect word because it is just an argument it is just a you know a perception it doesn't it you don't have to deduct anything from it that's face right okay yes okay so"
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      "text": "that's the idea okay there is no evidence okay beyond faith you have to believe it exists otherwise it doesn't exist that's it there's no point in arguing of this because there's actually"
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      "text": "no evidence otherwise yeah yeah I know so back to my question about the fictional Dante is the why the fictional Dante's faith diminished because he has proof of what he used to believe in"
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      "text": "okay so um this is how I would understand okay Dante the program would not have been allowed to go on this journey unless he had faith doesn't make sense okay but within the faith which is hard there has to be some experiences that confuse him that blind him from his true faith which is like why am I in exile in isolation and poor if I'm truly worthy of God why did God um have this faith for me okay so he's going on this journey because he has faith and this journey it's meant to remove all the doubts and the fears from him it doesn't make sense the faith is always there he wouldn't be on this journey unless he had that faith right and this entire journey it's meant to clarify for him why he has faith so you're saying that he"
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      "text": "goes on this journey and he experiences all these things of his own free will that it is not poured"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "into his brain uh uh okay so first of all the vine comedy it's a pure act of imagination right he didn't actually go to heaven uh he might have he might have had visions but he didn't actually go to heaven um and this pilgrim it's meant for it's meant to allow us to go on our own Journey do you understand and because he's meant to represent us then it depends on who you are it doesn't make sense there is no objective experience it's all a subjective thing where if you read the text you're gonna have a different experience as Dante than if I were to read the text that's Dante all right so this is a question that you have to answer by yourself all right okay yeah yeah so like I'm just curious at where the line is so we basically"
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      "text": "established that uh faith is believing in something despite material evidence to the contrary or a lack of material evidence that's what we said okay so that what is it what you what you say"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "mm -hmm so so Paul says faith is the evidence of things on seen okay so um to put this in very simple terms okay there are things that exist in this world that you can never prove to exist if you try to do so by Science by measuring it you get nowhere okay you would never prove God exists you would never prove Conscience exists but if you are to truly experience the world if you're trying to make sense of the world do you have to assume certain things about the world through your faith for example god exists consciousness exists we are connected to god okay and from then you can reason things out that help you seek the truth but there is no evidence that these things that god exists was true in the first place okay and and that's why science today has run into a dead end like i'm not sure if you"
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      "text": "guys study science okay but you look at physics you look at neuroscience it's all a dead end okay all right then tell me in the past 70 years what's"
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      "text": "physical what quick food physics have we had um we have had the particle accelerator which technology i'm talking about physics it has allowed us to uh have insight into the particular"
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      "text": "things that make up atoms i think what you are citing is basically just articles news articles uh you are not a scientist that you cannot make that uh you know even that comment uh you know what what scientific findings uh breakthroughs uh what are not you cannot make that judgment look look look you talk to any"
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      "text": "physicist and he'll tell you the last major breakthrough is quantum mechanics quantum physics okay after that we we've had things like string theory that's like okay but it's not a"
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      "text": "major breakthrough maybe maybe we should talk to a physic physicist okay then guys go go home do do"
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      "text": "the homework okay tell me in the past 70 years what major theory in physics have we had no professor"
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      "text": "you're making an extraordinary claim so if the burden of proof is upon you no no no i'm i'm telling"
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      "text": "you what i've read like online i i'm telling you what my own research well i was a physicist i was"
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      "text": "physically far from the age not eight and i have studied also physics uh you know until college my is i agree with professor jean that uh the so -called breakthroughs are just in the last 70 years or 50 years he's just you know just basically just speculation so i uh but i cannot see that i really on the same level as the top scientists in the world of course i just you know i'm mature but i think uh you have to uh you have to do your homework before you make any comment thank you"
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      "text": "and just yeah and just look at just look at what's happening in the world of science like the people who live in it what yeah can you hear me yeah like people dating back to maybe 5 000 years ago or maybe even before that people will live in amazon forest they've been they since then they already been started using um psychedelics like ayahuasca um but now we still have yet to figure out how um it works i mean we know the theories like the synapses the receptors but how they um they form all those kind of how they have all those experiences we don't know we we've been having that medicine for thousands of years okay and also like we don't even know how they came up"
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      "text": "with ayahuasca right because ayahuasca is a blending of two plants there's like a million plants you could blend together right how do they know that these two particular plants together in a certain quantity would induce the psychedelic experience that's pretty amazing to think about right if it's just random uh it would take a million years to figure this out how do they do how they able to figure out ayahuasca it's without one another"
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      "text": "the the only um the actually the psychoactive herb that can only last for like 10 minutes 20 minutes but with the other herb among millions of herb um they combine they they create this ayahuasca that can actually give you a full experience rather than just 10 minutes of tripping yeah so there's"
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      "text": "no way it could have been random right there's no way it could have been random it was not like okay you know what we'll just try million plants and see which which two work out right"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_04",
      "text": "they could have been random but we've heard about the story of shen nong how even translate that the the guy who tried yeah yeah who tastes this guy in ancient china who tastes like down the herbs and um even got poison a few times and and he wrote a book about all those herbs i mean that that could be not true but i mean okay look look look look"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "okay ayahuasca i'm telling you no one knows how they came up with this okay it is the most one of the most powerful psychodacts in the world uh and it's safe and it gives you this transcendental experience and as you point out it requires two plants it requires two herbs in a certain quantity together okay and like it's like how did they figure this out because they're like these millions of these herbs in the amazon right yeah i'm saying that i absolutely agree with what"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "the context of dante so back to your stated mission for this class is to spread dante and make people realize how good dante is and i'm saying that uh i agree with your mission i think it's really great but if you try to make this super science if you try to elevate this above science above common knowledge then i think it'll be really hard to convince people you will not be"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "able to achieve your mission okay okay i didn't say tanya was better than science i said that if you just work with the current um paradigms of science you get into a lot of dead ends including consciousness including the a lot of things okay all right uh any other comments or questions yes"
    },
    {
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "uh i i i don't believe what the professor said because dante is kind of a solution is kind of a possible way for us to lead into new futures so it doesn't mean that dante just tried to deny ever you know philosophy or it can be then he's not on the top of it but as dante is kind of a new channel i think maybe"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "this is new possible yeah so do you guys remember in channel two dante and beatrice were talking about the um the dark swords on the moon and beatrice said to dante you should do a science experiment right god is not anti -science he's not in fact he loves science he himself was a scientist okay so this is not an anti -science thing but um but what don is saying is that you have to believe certain things about the world if you are truly to seek the truth and certainly certain these things are you know um are just things you can't see you can't you can't ever know you just have to believe in them"
    },
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      "time_label": "3:53:16",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_00",
      "text": "that's that's what the faith is okay um i want to share something um i really appreciated david pointing out the word argumente whether it's evidence or argument in english um because um what the verse that captured me was on that faith the highest hope is founded so um to me this passage is about um faith not just as um almost like a blind faith that if you think about what paul could be saying um faith is just okay um you don't see it but that's what it is so have faith in that but this here is where hope is founded so it's a driving force upon which imagination um things people have action um it's a driving force exactly okay"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "so so um we'll end with this okay what's the highest hope what's our highest hope exactly right what what is the what's the highest hope try to answer yeah yeah yeah i'd be curious to hear your answers but what is salvation then yeah what is heaven return to god right like like we've like this like this morning which is like god is calling to us and we are calling to god okay that's what that's what the highest hope is to be able to return to god which is our salvation and"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "redemption okay yes my highest hope is to make every every organism every living being in this universe happy and safe and loved and i don't think that has anything to do with returning to this"
    },
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      "start": 14101.43,
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      "time_label": "3:55:01",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "god but that but that that's what theologians say is returning to god returning to god is if you return to god by yourself that's not enough everything has returned to god god has been made whole right because god split himself up into the world and now everything has returned to god for the world to be whole again okay and that will be"
    },
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      "start": 14122.91,
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      "time_label": "3:55:22",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "the highest happiness the highest hope and my point is we can't just look inwards and be like i'll meditate all day and this will be good we have to do works do good works no one is saying"
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      "text": "meditate all day don is saying you have to like learn you have to debate you have to inquire you"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "right that's what don is saying here my question is has dante done any good works like daunting the fictional pilgrim has he done any good works as the result of his experiences i don't understand the question what what i'm saying is after he got enlightenment so he realized that his highest mission is to return to god and to make god whole right by making everyone around him return to god so what has he done towards this goal i'm talking about daunting the fictional character not the"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "offer well we we don't know because we haven't finished the line comedy yet right okay okay when we get there we'll we'll know we'll know what he did okay uh yes verification on faith"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_12",
      "text": "um can i interpret it as just fully committing to a hypothesis like in dante dante's terms fully committing to the hypothesis that fully committing to the hypothesis if you change the hypothesis of faith yes committing to your faith committing to your hypothesis that god exists no because"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_17",
      "text": "hypothesis can be proven wrong oh that's true that's true right the faith is is the assumption the the the thing from which everything must come right in order to achieve the highest hope you need to have faith right yes i think the true"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_13",
      "text": "value of this class uh is not only it's about denting but also about god because people right now they don't believe in god most of them believe in money the power the science the ai so which means that we lost our faith we lost our hope we lost our love but if the denting really you know really recall people's memory maybe people can can just on one hand develop their science for no problem but on the other hand they should know the phrase hope and love is the most important thing that can lead people to live together happily but not just hatred or just have war"
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      "text": "maybe so i get to ask a lot what i think the path forward is okay we live in a world of war we live in a world where donald trump is president you know and so what is the path forward and the answer is the answer is if we all read Dante, our imagination would be activated and we would have the faith to achieve the highest hope, okay? The answer is not in me. The answer is in you. The answer is by reading Dante to achieve your true potential, your true self, okay? All right, so we'll leave that for now. We'll continue this tomorrow, okay? All right, but thank you. You're all improving. It seems you're all transcending or you're all being enlightened, okay? And that's really the power of Dante. Just a few days of Dante is going to make you a better person, okay? So, again, the homework is to reread what we read and make sure you understand what's going on, okay?"
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      "text": "And, again, all this is my interpretation. Look for other interpretations. They're all available online, right? And really come to your own understanding. And if you feel that my interpretation is a bit off or there's problems with some of my arguments, challenge us, okay? This is a place meant for free debate, open dialogue. I don't censor anyone. I don't stop anyone from talking, okay? All right, guys, see you tomorrow."
    },
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      "text": "okay uh good morning we are uh live um so uh we read your comments yesterday and um there are three concerns the first the major concern is a sound quality so uh carol and our team are fixing that um second is that there are parts of the video missing because of network issues and so what carol and her team are going to do is upload uh um the complete version uh later today or whenever it's ready um and the third issue is um the quality of the resolution the resolution quality unfortunately because it's a live stream we have to lower the resolution in order to make it more smooth but we will upload a higher quality version later on okay so thanks so much to care on our team for making this possible and um um so we are going to continue for the line comedy today but before i begin are there any questions"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "or concerns from yesterday uh yes"
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      "text": "so uh yesterday we got to uh canton four and uh five five five and my point is we were like over four and in four i had this a really big question so in canton four uh they show themselves through here not because this is their sphere but as a sign for you that in the inferior their place is lowest so what i take this section to mean is that even though there's no difference in accommodations so like there's a five -star hotel there's a four star hotel and everyone goes to the five -star hotel however there is a difference in prestige so my question is uh if there is no different difference in accommodations then why does god"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "divide them into casts of prestige okay great question okay so um first of all we are beyond time and space so everything is together it's complete unity unison okay doesn't make sense that's point one point two is that everyone is with god period that is what it is in reality but to make it comprehensible to dante and to us beatrice has constructed the heavens visually in a hierarchy okay and then what is this hierarchy this hierarchy is the amount of god that you receive in your soul okay so you are all in heaven you're all with god with a certain souls that are able to receive the light of god greater than other souls and that is what the hierarchy is like the closer you are to god the more you are able to receive his light the more you are in communion with god and what differentiates your ability to absorb god is your"
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      "text": "understanding of your relationship with god okay so ricarda is in the lowest sphere because she thinks that she is unworthy of god she is unequal to god therefore she must obey god but that's not what god wants god is all forgiving all generous he wants to come into you and become you so you must welcome him ricarda is like i'm not worthy god i am just a mortal okay and so what's happened is she's placed herself further from god because she thinks she's not worthy enough to be close to the god okay does that make sense okay so that's what it is in reality um but for us to better understand this uh they've constructed a hierarchy of spears and each spear has its own distinct characteristics as we'll see as we go along all right any more questions or"
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      "text": "yes um okay so i was just re -reading um canto one to four and there was a couple of lines in canto two that caught my attention because at least i found them to be very interesting so i'm going to read it out to you guys um so from line 23 to 25 it should be but in a span perhaps no longer than an arrow takes to strike to fly to leave so ideally i think the right order is first for the arrow to leave and then the arrow takes to strike to fly to leave so ideally i think the right order is first for the arrow to the bow to fly and then to strike so why does dante kind of like intentionally reverse this order"
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      "text": "in during this part of the text okay um so first of all we are beyond time and space meaning that what's happening here in maybe our universe is just one second or less than that okay so everything's happening at once um and so he's trying to show you the speed at which things are happening okay okay can you explain that um i actually need i'm i don't have access to the line oh it's in canto two yes from line 23 to uh 25."
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      "text": "okay line 23 -25 line 23 to 25. okay can you read it again um but in a span perhaps no longer than an arrow takes to strike to fly fly to leave the boat I reached a place where I could see that something wonderful drew me so I'm just like interested why Dante is reversing the order that typically an arrow shoots out from a bowl because it should be first it leaves the bowl then it flies then finally it strikes"
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      "text": "um okay so this is poetry and there are different uh conceptions okay but I think what he what he's doing is he's collapsing time does that make sense to you because as you say the proper sequence of events is you first leave the bowl then you fly then you hit your target right but then he's saying I first hit my target then I fly then I leave so I take this to mean the collapse of time does that make sense to you yes we are we are in a place where time and space has collapsed altogether yeah so there's no time then there's no space right so so there are there are the most basic interpretation is that this is happening so fast that it's beyond perception you understand because because because what we're seeing it's human perception right it's the human logic and and what what he's saying is that this is happening so"
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      "text": "fast it's even beyond my perception but another way to interpret this is it's happening it's beyond your it's beyond your perception because he's collapsing time and space okay that doesn't make sense guys can I offer like a thought um"
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      "text": "yesterday you put on your board where there's a will there's a way and so in a way this reverse order kind of um enunciates the importance of the aim and the goal first and then goes backwards and um yes chronologically it's different but it's the it you know this is inspired by commentary here too it's um kind of how things actually happen because where there's a will there's a way and you start with the goal first the end first yes and then everything else proceeds okay"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "that's that's beautiful thank you yes yes okay so again there are multiple explanations right good"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_10",
      "text": "okay yes so I hope that to add to that because um as I was as I was biking home last night I was reading through um a book on Einstein and the narrator connected it to Dante just coincidentally and Einstein's working with space and time and he had this kind of quip that said time is what prevents everything from happening at once and then they said much like Dante's Paradise where everything can and does happen at once it didn't pull that lineup specifically but I think that's"
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      "text": "the answer that Einstein came up with yes um you know I want to add to this point and point out that the greatest scientists um they were first and foremost poets they were the ones who were willing to imagine a new reality people like Newton and Einstein so this is something that we've forgotten where before science was driven by the imagination by intuition by poetry by the occult by by by a desire to be closer to God and now we've broken science into these logical processes that are com materialized that's why honestly for the past 70 years we've accomplished nothing okay we've had no something breakthroughs for these past 70 years okay so thank you for that any more questions"
    },
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "before we we begin yes this is more of a conceptual question so yesterday you emphasized to us repeatedly the importance of imagination and intuition now according to my limited understanding one of the criticisms of the Middle Ages is that it relied too much on mysticism and unreason so if like almost a representative or a pioneer of the Renaissance which is characterized in opposition to the Middle Ages which must therefore be comprised of reason and light of reason and rationality why is Dante's work why does Dante's work emphasize intuition and imagination in such a"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "way okay um so we'll talk about this today um but Dante is very much a revolutionary he's going to influence all his uh time and period and his major concern is that the Catholic Church is involved in geopolitics meaning that the Catholic Church is trying to be the Empire it isn't like that because it obviously creates a lot of problems it creates a lot of Wars um so Donnie's primary concern is that as an Empire the Catholic Church is not focused enough on spirituality not focused enough on mysticism on their code it's more focused on Temple power on getting people to obey them and that's what's limited the imagination of medieval Europe okay so we'll discuss this more this morning but um but does that answer your question for now okay because our conception of the Middle Ages is uh anachronistic okay we're looking at it from our lens okay but in my comedy we're"
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      "text": "seeing it"
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_02",
      "text": "from body's lens all right uh question yeah yeah um so oh this so one like overall question maybe for the book as well is um just I I still don't really understand how he came up with all of this like like did he did it came to him like in a dream was it like multiple dreams and that he put them down or yeah like did he just imagine it on this desk like sitting on his desk or like walking in the park or something like I like how was it so and then so in depth as well like I I"
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      "time_label": "13:09",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "don't understand that okay so there are two major themes today the first major theme is Dante's Revolution against the Catholic Church okay what are what are his concerns about the Catholic Church and what is he trying to change about the Catholic Church okay that's the first major concern it's like a major concern is how did he write this because this is a time without computers this is a time where pen and paper are not that accessible okay and he published it um he published first the Inferno in the Purgatory and then Paradise but you read the Divine Comedy it is pretty coherent okay it's almost like he first wrote everything down then he uh shaped um the uh all three parts to be coherent to get the flow seamlessly but we know for a fact that's how it happened so the major question is how are you able to even before you write anything down"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-16",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/transcript/#seg-0020",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PscXuHPRWQ8&t=854s",
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      "start": 854.33,
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      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "how are you able to structure in a way that is mathematically perfect right so something that we will not probably discuss but something that we should discuss more is the mathematics the numerology of the Divine Comedy okay so there are three sections the first section is 34 contours second section is 33 third section is 33. that's a hundred also the number 33 has a lot of occult meaning because 33 is the age when Jesus died okay um 33 has a lot of occult um significance so this is like really weird how is a person able to even before you wrote anything down mathematically concede the entirety of the Divine Comedy and this is something that we will address throughout these two weeks because it's really a question of what really is our connection to the Divine okay so something that I will argue to you today is that Dante could have only written this if"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-16",
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      "start": 924.71,
      "end": 994.59,
      "time_label": "15:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "God exists okay if God doesn't exist and Ren randomness randomness is what rules the universe there's no way he could have written this it makes absolutely no sense only if he is able to channel God the monad the source whatever you call it is he able to write this down okay and um when we really try to understand the Vine Comedy you will see that within it is Divinity itself okay okay so so so this is a question that I'm going to ask you this question that is the fundamental question we're trying to address these next two weeks okay but thank you for that any more questions before we begin okay good okay so yesterday we left off with uh Picarda and the the Picarda presents an extremely complex more dilemma she did nothing wrong right she loved God she married God by being a nun then her brother who is a Duke or Prince"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-16",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/transcript/#seg-0022",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PscXuHPRWQ8&t=994s",
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      "start": 994.59,
      "end": 1069,
      "time_label": "16:34",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "I forget actually he needs her in order to create a military alliance so he steals her from the convent and marries her off and again she did nothing wrong but she ends up in the low sphere of Paradise okay so she's in heaven but it's a furthest from God and Don is like this makes no sense she definitely right she definitely the Catholic church told you she followed her heart and she ends up the furthest from God and what we said is it's because she did not actually practice her will she did not show her true faith in God right and there are many things she she had done she had ran away she had threatened her cure so she could um and so there were many things she could have done okay now is go deeper into this uh story and show you how complex it is all right and then we I want"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
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      "published_at": "2026-06-16",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/transcript/#seg-0023",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PscXuHPRWQ8&t=1069s",
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      "start": 1069,
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      "time_label": "17:49",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "us to use our imagination or intuition to figure out what the proper choice would have been all right so so let me explain the um situation okay all right so so let me set up for you Ricardo has made a vow to God I'm going to marry you God um and what Beatrice tells us is that making a vow is a very serious thing making a promise a very serious thing because the greatest gift God has given you is your free will when you choose to surrender your free will as a gift to God there's really nothing you can do to compensate for breaking this vow okay so Ricardo the issue is that she has a vow to God all right now her brother and again I don't know if this is historically true but I'm going to create a scenario for you guys okay her brother has a friend and the two are trying"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-16",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/transcript/#seg-0024",
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      "start": 1142.15,
      "end": 1217.8,
      "time_label": "19:02",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "to conquer Italy together and they're in a battle okay and before this battle the brother says to the friend you know the Picardy brother if we win this battle I God that I will give you my sister as a bride okay so it's another vow right and they win the battle so that's that's a situation right Picarda has run off to a nunnery her brother is like oh okay I swore to God that I would give my sister as a bride therefore I'm obligated by God to do whatever I can to get her back okay right because I I made a vow to God so now let us think deeply okay and say let's say for whatever reason both Picarda and her brother have true faith in God meaning they will do whatever they can to ensure they do not break their vow to God what if I can to get her back because I"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
      "source_class": "episode",
      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-16",
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      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/transcript/#seg-0025",
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      "start": 1217.8,
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      "time_label": "20:17",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "made a vow to God I swore to God to God right so here we have Picarda saying you know what I am on the roof if you come and get me from the nunnery I will go jump off the roof and kill myself I don't care what the catholic church says yes I know it is the greatest in the world to commit suicide I understand that but my vow to God is greater than the catholic church okay and then the brother's like well Picarda I also made a vow to God and God has given me victory in battle and therefore I cannot betray God God has already given me the gift of victory in battle so I must give you to my friend okay so now what we're going to do is we're going to use your imagination and intuition to figure out how first of all how this will play out but also what"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
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      "collection": "episodes",
      "published_at": "2026-06-16",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/transcript/#seg-0026",
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      "start": 1273.53,
      "end": 1284.18,
      "time_label": "21:13",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "is the proper or right choice okay so here Picarda is like you know what if you come and get me I'm"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
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      "episode_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/",
      "transcript_url": "/episodes/predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8/transcript/#seg-0027",
      "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PscXuHPRWQ8&t=1284s",
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      "start": 1284.18,
      "end": 1334.7,
      "time_label": "21:24",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_06",
      "text": "gonna kill myself what's the brother gonna do personally I think assuming that the brother has true belief in God I think this hypothetical is a little bit weird because as you mentioned before our free will is our most precious gift from God and only the only person you can promise you can surrender your free will to is the person who you love. who gave it to you as in god however the brother here is playing god the brother here is presuming on behalf of another to take away her free will i know that in the catholic church a wife swears obedience to her husband upon marriage but this is the catholic church this is not dante's god so how dare this brother who has true belief in god presume to strip hers his sister of her free"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
      "source_title": "Dante Livestream #2 (Tuesday, June 16 10AM)",
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      "start": 1334.7,
      "end": 1358.91,
      "time_label": "22:14",
      "speaker": "SPEAKER_15",
      "text": "will um okay okay i understand but like let's just play this game okay let's just first use our imagination and play out this story okay let's imagine we're writing a movie all right and this makes a great movie by the way so ricardo is like i'm gonna kill myself what would the brother do"
    },
    {
      "slug": "predictive-history-pscxuhprwq8",
      "title": "Why Paradise Needs Human Imagination",
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