{ "generated_by": "Generated by ops/scripts/compile-content.mjs. Do not edit by hand.", "generated_at": "deterministic", "slug": "interview-wvm3oqdviwy", "id": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy", "source_class": "interview", "collection": "interviews", "title": "What's worked in education in China?", "source_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY", "video_id": "WVm3OqDVIwY", "embed_url": "https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/WVm3OqDVIwY", "published_at": "2021-02-05", "recorded_at": null, "date_precision": "day", "date_label": "2021-02-05, day precision", "chronology_status": "dated", "channel": { "id": "UCUCBTm_S-BeJNE3Tzr1P31w", "handle": "UCUCBTm_S-BeJNE3Tzr1P31w", "title": "T4 Education", "url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUCBTm_S-BeJNE3Tzr1P31w" }, "path_base": "/interviews", "path": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_path": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/", "data_url": "/data/lens/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy.json", "counts": { "semantic_passes": 8, "interactions": 40, "speaker_notes": 0, "claims": 44, "signature_moments": 17, "predictions": 2, "models": 11, "glossary_terms": 15, "chronology_notes": 7, "uncertainty_notes": 6, "glossary_candidates": 16, "transcript_segments": 60, "transcript_words": 6365, "duration_seconds": 2293.12, "duration_label": "38:13" }, "paths": { "source": "content/sources/videos/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/source.yaml", "transcript": "content/sources/videos/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcripts/v1/transcript.clean.jsonl", "semantic_bundle": "content/lens/evidence/videos/interview-wvm3oqdviwy.semantic.json", "semantic_passes": [ "content/workflow/proposals/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/packet-0001.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/packet-0002.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/packet-0003.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/packet-0004.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/packet-0005.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/packet-0006.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/packet-0007.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/packet-0008.semantic.json" ], "read": "content/lens/episodes/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/read.json" }, "read": { "id": "episode-read:interview-wvm3oqdviwy:v1", "kind": "episode-read", "schema_version": 2, "source_id": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy", "slug": "interview-wvm3oqdviwy", "title": "EdTech Does Not Remedy, It Amplifies", "subtitle": "Jiang uses China's schools to argue that emotional support, teacher development, and community do more educational work than gadgets, and that AI matters only if it forces slogans to face evidence", "read_time": "11 min", "editorial_mode": "distilled-interview", "voice_policy": "Direct, pressure-driven interview prose preserving the host's prompts so Jiang's moves between Chinese schooling, edtech, rural transformation, COVID, and AI remain intelligible.", "trace_policy": "Paragraph claims and selective marks carry exact transcript refs. The read stays attached to the dated 2021-02-05 interview and keeps only real host or viewer questions asked in the source.", "dek": "Jiang starts by explaining why China became the world's largest and most lucrative edtech market: educational scarcity, parental obsession, test-score clarity, and WeChat infrastructure. He then turns the interview inside out. The real lesson from China, he says, is that technology does not cure broken schools. It amplifies whatever is already there. Motivation, equity, teacher growth, family support, and shared purpose matter more than devices, while AI is useful only if it helps education become a science rather than a bundle of untested slogans.", "thesis": "The interview's real hinge is not China-versus-the-West but machine-versus-community. Jiang grants the usual points first: China's school system is huge, pressured, standardized, and unusually hospitable to edtech because the country treats scarce educational opportunity as a score-maximizing problem. But the deeper argument runs against the prestige of technology. Edtech scales when a society is obsessed with test scores, yet it fails on the things that actually make learning durable: motivation, emotional support, creativity, and human belief in students. That is why Jiang keeps returning to rural school transformation, the status of teachers, family scaffolding during COVID, and the idea that education is still where medicine was before the scientific revolution. The issue is not whether schools should use technology. The issue is whether schools know what problem they are trying to solve, and whether they are willing to admit that many of the most important educational problems are solved by communities before they are solved by tools.", "source_notes": [ { "text": "The interview is dated 2021-02-05, before China's later edtech crackdown and during the COVID closure period Jiang describes. Claims about Chinese edtech scale, school reopening, and pandemic learning gaps should stay attached to that date.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "A few transcript stretches are noisy, especially the anecdote about the rural art student who later became a scholar. This read keeps the stable argumentative use of that story rather than pretending every damaged phrase is clean.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "segment_id": "seg-0022", "start": 924.9, "end": 977.27, "time_label": "15:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "tell you a story um that highlights this um i used to go to high school as you know tony university high school one of the best high schools in china my boss there one in june he actually grew up in the countryside duri..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "opening": { "heading": "Core Reading", "text": "Jiang's sharpest move in this interview is to treat technology as a revealer instead of a savior. China, he says, became a dream environment for edtech because education is scarce, test scores are treated as the fairest distribution mechanism, parents are intensely invested, and WeChat gives the system a ready-made coordination layer. But once technology entered the classroom at scale, it exposed what machines cannot easily supply. Students still need to be interestingly motivated. Rural schools still fail more from emotional isolation than from device shortages. Teachers still grow by working in community and by being forced to rethink pedagogy where students struggle most. Even AI enters the conversation under the same condition: it matters only if it helps educators challenge their own slogans with evidence. By the end, the lesson is almost brutal in its simplicity. If engagement, trust, and purpose are the real educational bottlenecks, then schools may need better human processes more than they need better hardware.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "marks": [ { "text": "it makes education into a solvable problem", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "EdTech does not remedy and amplifies", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "the answer is not actually more technology the answer is more community", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "the world should be the classroom", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, "beats": [ { "id": "scarcity-builds-the-market", "heading": "Scarcity, Test Scores, And WeChat Built The Market", "time_range": "00:02-08:17", "summary": "The host asks for a map of Chinese education, and Jiang answers by showing why the country's scale, scarcity, and communications infrastructure made it unusually receptive to edtech.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "scarcity-builds-the-market-001", "text": "Jiang begins with scale and pressure. China educates roughly 200 million children in a comparatively standardized system with large classes, scarce university slots, and a brutal entrance exam that is treated as the fairest way to distribute opportunity. That pressure cooker matters because it makes educational performance legible and urgent, which is exactly the kind of environment in which technology can promise measurable gains.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "marks": [ { "text": "China has the world's largest public school system", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "that's considered the fairest way to distribute scarce education resources", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "scarcity-builds-the-market-002", "text": "His mechanism for Chinese edtech success is unusually blunt. Parents are culturally obsessed with education and willing to spend money, time, and emotion on it. Test-score obsession then turns learning into something that looks tractable to software. Add WeChat as a universal coordination layer for teachers, parents, and students, and the country becomes not merely a large market but a structurally favorable one. 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We mean this financially, right? So parents..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "they can do everything within WeChat", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. 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So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst themselves..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "segment_id": "seg-0009", "start": 365.522, "end": 406.51, "time_label": "6:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And this is a way to scaffold rapid teaching improvement in poor areas. And the third area of success, and this is really a major area of success is in test preparation. So that students in smaller cities are able to ac..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "start": 2, "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "segment_id": "seg-0001", "start": 2.06, "end": 55.34, "time_label": "0:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "hi everyone uh my name is vikas uh welcome to a very early and special edition of t4 tv uh today you know i i'm glad that a friend of mine has agreed to participate his name is uh jung jung is uh welcome welcome to this..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "segment_id": "seg-0002", "start": 55.34, "end": 105.92, "time_label": "0:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "were a teacher um you know instantaneously and you'll see how much you have learned from this and everything emanates from that and so i wanted to use this opportunity just to speak to you about uh about exactly that ri..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 105.92, "end": 119.92, "time_label": "1:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "if you could give us the contours of the education sector in China, you know, how big is it? How many schools? How many teachers? And just give us some interesting nuggets so that everyone can understand the diversity o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "segment_id": "seg-0007", "start": 266.67, "end": 309.49, "time_label": "4:26", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so, Jiang, you talk about so many schools and because of the high pressure kind of environment that you have and the expectations that are quite high when it comes to children's education in China, you say what you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 310.03, "end": 365.522, "time_label": "5:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. Thanks. So I would say there are three major successes we see every day in China. The first in terms of parental engagement. So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst themselves..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "segment_id": "seg-0009", "start": 365.522, "end": 406.51, "time_label": "6:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And this is a way to scaffold rapid teaching improvement in poor areas. And the third area of success, and this is really a major area of success is in test preparation. So that students in smaller cities are able to ac..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 407.35, "end": 439.01, "time_label": "6:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "So there's a, in this part of the world, it needs to be a little bit different. There's a lot of companies in the Middle East, you know, there's a swathe of companies in the EdTech sector that do fantastically well. So..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ] }, { "id": "technology-fails-where-learning-begins", "heading": "Technology Fails Exactly Where Learning Begins", "time_range": "08:18-15:49", "summary": "Asked about the downside of Chinese edtech, Jiang says the failure is not marginal but structural: technology does not create motivation, does not close equity gaps, and does not make classrooms more creative.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "technology-fails-where-learning-begins-001", "text": "Jiang's critique is concentrated in three failures: motivation, equity, and creativity. Remote learning during COVID showed him that students who are already self-propelled widen the gap from those who are not. Rural broadband and hardware do not solve the deeper problem either, because the larger deficit is often emotional isolation rather than simple access. And when schools buy expensive smart boards or ready-made slides, teachers can become lazier rather than more inventive.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "marks": [ { "text": "the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "emotional isolation is a bigger problem", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "technology-fails-where-learning-begins-002", "text": "The line that survives the whole interview is his simplest one: technology does not fix a school's underlying condition. It amplifies it. A thriving school may use devices to become a little stronger. A broken school may use devices to become a little more broken. That is why, when the host asks whether a caring learning community can coexist with test pressure, Jiang answers not by softening Chinese competition but by arguing that community itself is what improves scores. His rural research says the same thing in harder language: the answer is not more technology. The answer is more community.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "marks": [ { "text": "EdTech does not remedy and amplifies", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "the answer is not actually more technology the answer is more community", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 649.67, "end": 669.16, "time_label": "10:49", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "loving and supportive community I mean but is that a common thing I mean from what our perception of Chinese education is and what you said earlier was this incessant focus on test prep and test score right right that l..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "start": 498, "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "segment_id": "seg-0012", "start": 497.79, "end": 526.11, "time_label": "8:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And when we talk about the flip side of the coin, you know, what are the two big EdTech success stories here so far? Well, one of the things that as a result of through the use of EdTech, we've now realized are some of..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 639.47, "end": 649.67, "time_label": "10:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "has taught us in China is the importance of providing emotional support to students on focusing on their well -being and making sure that the part of others has what they call many bird's eye view of their own learning" }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 649.67, "end": 669.16, "time_label": "10:49", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "loving and supportive community I mean but is that a common thing I mean from what our perception of Chinese education is and what you said earlier was this incessant focus on test prep and test score right right that l..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." } ] }, { "id": "optimism-teachers-and-rural-transformation", "heading": "China's Better Story Is Optimism, Teacher Status, And Rural Transformation", "time_range": "12:56-20:39", "summary": "The host asks about PISA and teacher status, and Jiang answers with a historical argument about literacy, optimism, respect for teachers, and the development of the profession.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0019", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0028", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "optimism-teachers-and-rural-transformation-001", "text": "Jiang refuses to let PISA stand in for the whole Chinese story. Shanghai, Beijing, Jiangsu, and Zhejiang are wealthy provinces, not the entire nation. The deeper explanation reaches back to the long literacy and equity campaign from 1949 to 1999, when well-educated urban teachers were sent into rural communities. His striking claim is that the decisive gap was not mainly teacher quality but mentality. Rural fatalism had to be broken by adults who actually believed education could change a life.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0019", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "marks": [ { "text": "there's a real fatalism that was destroying communities", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0019", "segment_id": "seg-0019", "start": 775.8, "end": 811.6, "time_label": "12:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "community support that leads to higher test scores i mean so jen i know that you and i have this discussion but but i want to just ask you this question because i think the viewers and the audience for this live stream..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "optimism-teachers-and-rural-transformation-002", "text": "That is why the damaged but memorable story in the middle still matters. A teacher or mentor reimagines children of farmers as a community of scholars, and their trajectory changes. Jiang then broadens the point into a teacher argument. China changed when teaching drew many of the best students, and even after the market era pulled talent toward finance, the profession still holds status because parents defer to teachers and teachers respond inside a reinforcing loop of responsibility and effort. Retention, on this view, comes less from salary talk than from mentoring, collaboration, and the felt experience of becoming better at the work.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "marks": [ { "text": "community of scholars", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "it becomes a virtuous feedback loop", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1185.26, "end": 1239.86, "time_label": "19:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "an amazing job in terms of teacher retention rates so why is that China has a great system of teacher training right so you come into the system you have mentors every week you have one day of professional development a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "start": 776, "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0019", "segment_id": "seg-0019", "start": 775.8, "end": 811.6, "time_label": "12:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "community support that leads to higher test scores i mean so jen i know that you and i have this discussion but but i want to just ask you this question because i think the viewers and the audience for this live stream..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "segment_id": "seg-0022", "start": 924.9, "end": 977.27, "time_label": "15:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "tell you a story um that highlights this um i used to go to high school as you know tony university high school one of the best high schools in china my boss there one in june he actually grew up in the countryside duri..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "segment_id": "seg-0024", "start": 999.33, "end": 1037.05, "time_label": "16:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "professors so I remember a few years ago Jiang was that you know we used to look at the status of teachers in my last role that I had and you know we published a few reports around the status of teachers can you tell us..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 1162.36, "end": 1169.02, "time_label": "19:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "go train them they're open to new ideas and and so that that's what's that" }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0028", "segment_id": "seg-0028", "start": 1169.14, "end": 1185.26, "time_label": "19:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "that's one extreme I'm so gratifying and so you know most parts of the world Jiang have a have a teacher recruitment and retention crisis does the same apply to China so that's a great question I believe China has done" }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1185.26, "end": 1239.86, "time_label": "19:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "an amazing job in terms of teacher retention rates so why is that China has a great system of teacher training right so you come into the system you have mentors every week you have one day of professional development a..." } ] }, { "id": "third-revolution-without-robot-rule", "heading": "The Third Education Revolution Needs Science, Not Robot Rule", "time_range": "20:39-26:23", "summary": "When the host asks about Jiang's 'third education revolution,' Jiang says education today resembles pre-scientific medicine and that AI should be used to challenge assumptions rather than replace teachers.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "third-revolution-without-robot-rule-001", "text": "Jiang's third revolution is not simply more digital schooling. It is the claim that education needs its scientific turn. He compares the field to nineteenth-century medicine: rich in intuition, poor in disciplined evidence. In that frame, AI is not valuable because it is fashionable. It is valuable if it helps educators collect real-time evidence, test their beliefs, and stop repeating conference slogans about creativity or well-being without defining what those words mean.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "marks": [ { "text": "education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "time_label": "20:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brough..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "segment_id": "seg-0034", "start": 1391.5, "end": 1453.857, "time_label": "23:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "um core essence of what you're doing at this time of day but you have to have a lot of assumptions assumptions. And we have a lot of beliefs. And we don't actually question these assumptions and beliefs. And you know, a..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1453.857, "end": 1469.86, "time_label": "24:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And so I think artificial intelligence, what it can do is provide real time data and evidence for us to question these assumptions. So let me give you an example of this. Okay, so what do we mean by evidence in educatio..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "third-revolution-without-robot-rule-002", "text": "The host immediately raises the obvious fear: deprofessionalization. Jiang's answer is conditional but firm. If educators surrender the conversation to technologists who care only about short-term score gains, they will get a sterile regime of drills, metrics, and emotional corrosion. But if the discussion is serious and evidence-based, the conclusion should run the other way. Teachers are irreplaceable because education is a human community of scholars, not a content-delivery machine.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "marks": [ { "text": "Teachers are irreplaceable components of education", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1471.12, "end": 1479.2, "time_label": "24:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Let me stop you. Let me stop you. Sorry, I can't ask you again. But does it not lead to the deep professionalization of teaching?" }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "segment_id": "seg-0037", "start": 1481.16, "end": 1532.76, "time_label": "24:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Um, okay, that's a good question. If, if we, we as educators do not participate in the process, it can, in fact, lead to the replacement of teachers, right? I mean, if you just talk to a technology technologist, who has..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "start": 1239, "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "segment_id": "seg-0030", "start": 1239.86, "end": 1259.74, "time_label": "20:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "community and they feel a lot better about themselves so jiang i know that you also uh have some thoughts on what is called the third education revolution can you paint out what you think that is yeah the reason i say t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "time_label": "20:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brough..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "segment_id": "seg-0033", "start": 1351.58, "end": 1391.5, "time_label": "22:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "you'll understand my skepticism jung when i say to you that you know your your your your pitch that ai can transform education because of the collation of data and then the processing of data will will draw rancor aroun..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "segment_id": "seg-0034", "start": 1391.5, "end": 1453.857, "time_label": "23:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "um core essence of what you're doing at this time of day but you have to have a lot of assumptions assumptions. And we have a lot of beliefs. And we don't actually question these assumptions and beliefs. And you know, a..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1453.857, "end": 1469.86, "time_label": "24:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And so I think artificial intelligence, what it can do is provide real time data and evidence for us to question these assumptions. So let me give you an example of this. Okay, so what do we mean by evidence in educatio..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1471.12, "end": 1479.2, "time_label": "24:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Let me stop you. Let me stop you. Sorry, I can't ask you again. But does it not lead to the deep professionalization of teaching?" }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "segment_id": "seg-0037", "start": 1481.16, "end": 1532.76, "time_label": "24:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Um, okay, that's a good question. If, if we, we as educators do not participate in the process, it can, in fact, lead to the replacement of teachers, right? I mean, if you just talk to a technology technologist, who has..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ] }, { "id": "covid-proves-the-community-claim", "heading": "Facial Recognition, COVID, And The Proof That Community Matters", "time_range": "26:24-32:24", "summary": "Jiang opposes technology worship in the classroom, then uses school closures and the delayed gaokao to argue that motivation and family scaffolding matter more than device access.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0043", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0046", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "covid-proves-the-community-claim-001", "text": "The facial-recognition exchange compresses Jiang's objection to educational gadget worship. There is a difference between using technology inside a serious process and using it because it looks advanced. If the real goal is student engagement, then the meaningful comparison is not camera versus no camera. It is camera versus a more interesting teacher, better material, and a clearer hypothesis about what engagement even is. Without that discipline, schools end up using tools to control behavior rather than support learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "marks": [ { "text": "we want facial recognition in the classroom, because it looks cool", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "time_label": "26:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom,..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1584.88, "end": 1616.54, "time_label": "26:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so, again, I just push on a little bit, but I think it's a bit more so in in in the West, in particular, I remember there was a BBC report that I read last year, about the use of facial recognition in, in classrooms..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "time_label": "26:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom,..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "covid-proves-the-community-claim-002", "text": "COVID gives Jiang a real-world stress test for the same idea. Chinese schools closed early, but he thinks the social damage was more contained partly because parents were not absent from the learning process. Children were not simply abandoned with screens. Family members scaffolded the work. Even then, the gaokao was delayed for the first time in decades, and Jiang reads that decision as evidence that motivation and classroom atmosphere are not decorative extras. Students reported being less focused and less driven at home.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050" ], "marks": [ { "text": "this family that really supported, scaffolded the kids", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "this has never happened before in the past 30 years", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1814.45, "end": 1819.33, "time_label": "30:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "because of the family engagement in China, we didn't have a lot of these mental health issues." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050", "segment_id": "seg-0050", "start": 1940.3, "end": 1951.6, "time_label": "32:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So that sort of classroom setting, where you're surrounded by peers, and you have a similar goal, you have a teacher, you have a mentor, motivating you on, encouraging you emotionally, I mean, it is vital to the learnin..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "start": 1584, "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1584.88, "end": 1616.54, "time_label": "26:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so, again, I just push on a little bit, but I think it's a bit more so in in in the West, in particular, I remember there was a BBC report that I read last year, about the use of facial recognition in, in classrooms..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "time_label": "26:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom,..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0043", "segment_id": "seg-0043", "start": 1728.2, "end": 1749.76, "time_label": "28:48", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so, Jiang, I want to move on to a set of questions to do with COVID and, and the closure of schools. And, you know, we know a lot about how, you know, entire school systems have come to a close, and are grappling wi..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1814.45, "end": 1819.33, "time_label": "30:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "because of the family engagement in China, we didn't have a lot of these mental health issues." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0046", "segment_id": "seg-0046", "start": 1819.95, "end": 1822.61, "time_label": "30:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so how long were schools closed?" }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1866.01, "end": 1879.79, "time_label": "31:06", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And, Jiang, in terms of like, you know, we worry a lot about learning loss and catch up in your learning. And so how will how will they be approaching that in China?" }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050", "segment_id": "seg-0050", "start": 1940.3, "end": 1951.6, "time_label": "32:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So that sort of classroom setting, where you're surrounded by peers, and you have a similar goal, you have a teacher, you have a mentor, motivating you on, encouraging you emotionally, I mean, it is vital to the learnin..." } ] }, { "id": "three-lessons-and-the-world-classroom", "heading": "The Final Lessons Are Human: Teachers, Alignment, Equity, World", "time_range": "32:25-37:38", "summary": "The interview closes with Jiang's three lessons from China and two audience prompts that let him restate the argument in its cleanest form.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0051", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0055", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "three-lessons-and-the-world-classroom-001", "text": "When the host asks for three lessons from China, Jiang does not say buy more devices. He says invest in teachers through mentorship, professional development, and community; align parents and schools around clear aims, even if China's own aims are too test-driven; and focus hardest on the most marginalized communities. His strongest ethical claim arrives inside the third lesson: the best way to make good teachers into great teachers is to send them where teaching is hardest, because that is where pedagogy is forced to become serious.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0051", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054" ], "marks": [ { "text": "send them into the most marginalized communities", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0051", "segment_id": "seg-0051", "start": 1952.71, "end": 1976.03, "time_label": "32:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Thank you for that, Jiang. And my last question, I suppose I want to ask you, and thank you so much for the time that you spent with us today, is, what do you think the three lessons the world can learn from education i..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054", "segment_id": "seg-0054", "start": 2102.7, "end": 2144.52, "time_label": "35:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Because what if you say that the good students will automatically understand or the good students will be self motivated to learn material on their own. But if you're a good teacher, you go into a more impoverished comm..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "three-lessons-and-the-world-classroom-002", "text": "The audience questions let him compress the whole argument one last time. Professional learning works differently in China, he says, because the entire community is invested in it, and schools should stop acting as if they are sealed off from life. The world should be the classroom. Then a final comment about flashy technology gives Jiang his cleanest closing sentence: if what you really care about is engagement, you may not need technology to solve most problems at all.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0055", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "marks": [ { "text": "the world should be the classroom", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "you actually don't need technology to solve most problems", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? 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Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ] } ], "questions": [ { "question": "What makes China's education system so large, pressured, and unusually hospitable to edtech?", "asked_by": "Host", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0010" ], "answer": "Jiang says China combines scarce educational opportunity, a culturally intense investment in schooling, test-score obsession, and a universal communications layer through WeChat, which together make edtech easier to scale and monetize.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 105.92, "end": 119.92, "time_label": "1:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "if you could give us the contours of the education sector in China, you know, how big is it? How many schools? How many teachers? And just give us some interesting nuggets so that everyone can understand the diversity o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "segment_id": "seg-0007", "start": 266.67, "end": 309.49, "time_label": "4:26", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so, Jiang, you talk about so many schools and because of the high pressure kind of environment that you have and the expectations that are quite high when it comes to children's education in China, you say what you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 407.35, "end": 439.01, "time_label": "6:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "So there's a, in this part of the world, it needs to be a little bit different. There's a lot of companies in the Middle East, you know, there's a swathe of companies in the EdTech sector that do fantastically well. So..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says China combines scarce educational opportunity, a culturally intense investment in schooling, test-score obsession, and a universal communications layer through WeChat, which together make edtech easier to scale and monetize.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 310.03, "end": 365.522, "time_label": "5:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. Thanks. So I would say there are three major successes we see every day in China. The first in terms of parental engagement. So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst themselves..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "question": "What, in Jiang's view, has edtech failed to solve in Chinese classrooms?", "asked_by": "Host", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0012" ], "answer": "He says the failures cluster around motivation, equity, and creativity, because devices do not create interesting motivation, do not heal emotional isolation, and often encourage low-effort teaching rather than better pedagogy.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "segment_id": "seg-0012", "start": 497.79, "end": 526.11, "time_label": "8:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And when we talk about the flip side of the coin, you know, what are the two big EdTech success stories here so far? Well, one of the things that as a result of through the use of EdTech, we've now realized are some of..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "He says the failures cluster around motivation, equity, and creativity, because devices do not create interesting motivation, do not heal emotional isolation, and often encourage low-effort teaching rather than better pedagogy.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 639.47, "end": 649.67, "time_label": "10:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "has taught us in China is the importance of providing emotional support to students on focusing on their well -being and making sure that the part of others has what they call many bird's eye view of their own learning" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "question": "If Chinese schooling is so focused on tests, how can a caring community still improve outcomes?", "asked_by": "Host", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0019" ], "answer": "Jiang argues that student well-being, parent engagement, teacher development, and optimism about what education can do are not soft extras but the underlying conditions that raise performance and make rural-school transformation possible.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 649.67, "end": 669.16, "time_label": "10:49", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "loving and supportive community I mean but is that a common thing I mean from what our perception of Chinese education is and what you said earlier was this incessant focus on test prep and test score right right that l..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0019", "segment_id": "seg-0019", "start": 775.8, "end": 811.6, "time_label": "12:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "community support that leads to higher test scores i mean so jen i know that you and i have this discussion but but i want to just ask you this question because i think the viewers and the audience for this live stream..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang argues that student well-being, parent engagement, teacher development, and optimism about what education can do are not soft extras but the underlying conditions that raise performance and make rural-school transformation possible.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "question": "What is the third education revolution, and where does AI fit inside it?", "asked_by": "Host", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036" ], "answer": "Jiang says education needs the kind of evidence-based transformation that medicine once underwent, and he thinks AI is useful only insofar as it helps educators test their assumptions instead of letting technologists replace teachers with drill-driven systems.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "segment_id": "seg-0030", "start": 1239.86, "end": 1259.74, "time_label": "20:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "community and they feel a lot better about themselves so jiang i know that you also uh have some thoughts on what is called the third education revolution can you paint out what you think that is yeah the reason i say t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "segment_id": "seg-0033", "start": 1351.58, "end": 1391.5, "time_label": "22:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "you'll understand my skepticism jung when i say to you that you know your your your your pitch that ai can transform education because of the collation of data and then the processing of data will will draw rancor aroun..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1471.12, "end": 1479.2, "time_label": "24:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Let me stop you. Let me stop you. Sorry, I can't ask you again. But does it not lead to the deep professionalization of teaching?" } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says education needs the kind of evidence-based transformation that medicine once underwent, and he thinks AI is useful only insofar as it helps educators test their assumptions instead of letting technologists replace teachers with drill-driven systems.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "time_label": "20:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brough..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "segment_id": "seg-0034", "start": 1391.5, "end": 1453.857, "time_label": "23:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "um core essence of what you're doing at this time of day but you have to have a lot of assumptions assumptions. And we have a lot of beliefs. And we don't actually question these assumptions and beliefs. And you know, a..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1453.857, "end": 1469.86, "time_label": "24:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And so I think artificial intelligence, what it can do is provide real time data and evidence for us to question these assumptions. So let me give you an example of this. Okay, so what do we mean by evidence in educatio..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "segment_id": "seg-0037", "start": 1481.16, "end": 1532.76, "time_label": "24:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Um, okay, that's a good question. If, if we, we as educators do not participate in the process, it can, in fact, lead to the replacement of teachers, right? I mean, if you just talk to a technology technologist, who has..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "question": "What three lessons should the rest of the world learn from Chinese education?", "asked_by": "Host", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0051" ], "answer": "Jiang says to invest seriously in teachers, align parents and schools around shared goals, and focus resources on the most marginalized communities, because those are the places that make teachers and systems better rather than complacent.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0051", "segment_id": "seg-0051", "start": 1952.71, "end": 1976.03, "time_label": "32:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Thank you for that, Jiang. And my last question, I suppose I want to ask you, and thank you so much for the time that you spent with us today, is, what do you think the three lessons the world can learn from education i..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says to invest seriously in teachers, align parents and schools around shared goals, and focus resources on the most marginalized communities, because those are the places that make teachers and systems better rather than complacent.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054", "segment_id": "seg-0054", "start": 2102.7, "end": 2144.52, "time_label": "35:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Because what if you say that the good students will automatically understand or the good students will be self motivated to learn material on their own. But if you're a good teacher, you go into a more impoverished comm..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "question": "Will learning beyond the classroom help students make better inferences and solve problems?", "asked_by": "Viewer question relayed by host", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0055" ], "answer": "Jiang says yes, but only if the broader world is treated as part of education and the community around the school is actually involved in the learning process rather than leaving students alone inside a test silo.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0055", "segment_id": "seg-0055", "start": 2145.61, "end": 2161.39, "time_label": "35:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so there's a question that's come up from Gail Brown, which I've flashed onto the screen over here. It says, professional learning and professional learning communities are already commonplace. Do you think this lea..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says yes, but only if the broader world is treated as part of education and the community around the school is actually involved in the learning process rather than leaving students alone inside a test silo.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] } ] }, "transcript": [ { "id": "seg-0001", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "start": 2.06, "end": 55.34, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "hi everyone uh my name is vikas uh welcome to a very early and special edition of t4 tv uh today you know i i'm glad that a friend of mine has agreed to participate his name is uh jung jung is uh welcome welcome to this live stream jung but you know the the thing the thing about you and think about um you know you and i have been friends for a very long time um and you are my go -to person for education in china and so and so what i thought was you know you've been very helpful to me in the past about how i should be thinking about education in china and all the different facets to it so you've attended conferences with me you've spoken on panels uh you've written books uh you know you used to have a newspaper column if i'm not mistaken you're a researcher at harvard you yourself", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-001", "start": 2.06, "end": 6.04, "text": "hi everyone uh my name is vikas uh welcome to a very", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-002", "start": 6.04, "end": 11.18, "text": "early and special edition of t4 tv uh today you know i", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-003", "start": 11.18, "end": 14.78, "text": "i'm glad that a friend of mine has agreed to participate his", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-004", "start": 14.78, "end": 19.56, "text": "name is uh jung jung is uh welcome welcome to this live", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-005", "start": 19.56, "end": 23.76, "text": "stream jung but you know the the thing the thing about you", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-006", "start": 23.76, "end": 27.38, "text": "and think about um you know you and i have been friends", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-007", "start": 27.38, "end": 31.04, "text": "for a very long time um and you are my go -to", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-008", "start": 31.04, "end": 35.14, "text": "person for education in china and so and so what i thought", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-009", "start": 35.14, "end": 37.94, "text": "was you know you've been very helpful to me in the past", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-010", "start": 37.94, "end": 42.02, "text": "about how i should be thinking about education in china and all", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-011", "start": 42.02, "end": 45.02, "text": "the different facets to it so you've attended conferences with me you've", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-012", "start": 45.02, "end": 49.9, "text": "spoken on panels uh you've written books uh you know you used", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-013", "start": 49.9, "end": 53.66, "text": "to have a newspaper column if i'm not mistaken you're a researcher", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-014", "start": 53.66, "end": 55.34, "text": "at harvard you yourself", "word_count": 4 } ], "text_sha256": "134f6bd8fe4b4cac4481264aed2dead25995ec34c7b47b703fd42bf396aaa2c0", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0001", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2s", "time_label": "0:02", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0002", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "start": 55.34, "end": 105.92, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "were a teacher um you know instantaneously and you'll see how much you have learned from this and everything emanates from that and so i wanted to use this opportunity just to speak to you about uh about exactly that right which is what is the status of education in china given that um there's a lot of there's a lot of um you know interest i think in what happens in your part of the world um given all the in the recent past you know beijing and Shanghai have shot up on the on the PISA rankings you know there's a lot of a lot of conversation about the use of technology in classrooms and some of the breakthroughs that are happening in China that we never hear about unless they're sensationalized in our media. 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But before we go into these deeper subjects, tell me, Jiang, in terms of", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-001", "start": 55.34, "end": 58.64, "text": "were a teacher um you know instantaneously and you'll see how much", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-002", "start": 58.64, "end": 60.78, "text": "you have learned from this and everything emanates from that and so", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-003", "start": 60.78, "end": 64.86, "text": "i wanted to use this opportunity just to speak to you about", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-004", "start": 64.86, "end": 69.12, "text": "uh about exactly that right which is what is the status of", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-005", "start": 69.12, "end": 73.66, "text": "education in china given that um there's a lot of there's a", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-006", "start": 73.66, "end": 77.26, "text": "lot of um you know interest i think in what happens in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-007", "start": 77.26, "end": 81.96, "text": "your part of the world um given all the in the recent", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-008", "start": 81.96, "end": 86.02, "text": "past you know beijing and Shanghai have shot up on the on", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-009", "start": 86.02, "end": 88.56, "text": "the PISA rankings you know there's a lot of a lot of", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-010", "start": 88.56, "end": 92.8, "text": "conversation about the use of technology in classrooms and some of the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-011", "start": 92.8, "end": 96.04, "text": "breakthroughs that are happening in China that we never hear about unless", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-012", "start": 96.04, "end": 97.76, "text": "they're sensationalized in our media.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-013", "start": 98.18, "end": 101.44, "text": "And so I want to just pick your brains.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-014", "start": 101.74, "end": 104.06, "text": "But before we go into these deeper subjects,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-015", "start": 104.34, "end": 105.92, "text": "tell me, Jiang, in terms of", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "8617d5e63076420569496312ec8de232182f28de0675a50a5d03c3d8edeb531a", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0002", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=55s", "time_label": "0:55", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0003", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "start": 105.92, "end": 119.92, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "if you could give us the contours of the education sector in China, you know, how big is it? How many schools? How many teachers? And just give us some interesting nuggets so that everyone can understand the diversity of the sector.", "word_count": 42, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-001", "start": 105.92, "end": 109.76, "text": "if you could give us the contours of the education sector in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-002", "start": 109.76, "end": 111.56, "text": "China, you know, how big is it?", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-003", "start": 111.6, "end": 112.18, "text": "How many schools?", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-004", "start": 112.4, "end": 113.02, "text": "How many teachers?", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-005", "start": 113.42, "end": 117.38, "text": "And just give us some interesting nuggets so that everyone can understand", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-006", "start": 117.38, "end": 119.92, "text": "the diversity of the sector.", "word_count": 5 } ], "text_sha256": "324c9c36a0525cb64c312ee86b14a33119558f51311a8204915306a488c4b6e1", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0003", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=105s", "time_label": "1:45", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0004", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class taught by one teacher, and a teacher will stay with a student throughout the school day. Because there's so much diversity, there's so much diversity, there's so many students. And because education resources are scarce in China, meaning there are not that many universities, we have a competitive college entrance examination, which every child has to take in order to get into college. And that's considered the fairest way to distribute scarce education resources. At the same time, as you can imagine, this creates a lot of pressure on kids to perform. So we have a very stressful school system. And just with ed tech, I would say that China has many advantages that has enabled China to become the world's most, the biggest ed tech market, but also the most lucrative.", "word_count": 171, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-001", "start": 120.32, "end": 125.74, "text": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-002", "start": 126.1, "end": 128.74, "text": "It educates about 200 million children.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-003", "start": 130.12, "end": 131.68, "text": "And it's a very monolithic system.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-004", "start": 131.88, "end": 135.22, "text": "So you have schools around China are about the same.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-005", "start": 135.32, "end": 138.64, "text": "You have 50 kids in a class taught by one teacher,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-006", "start": 138.84, "end": 142.9, "text": "and a teacher will stay with a student throughout the school day.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-007", "start": 144.18, "end": 145.16, "text": "Because there's so much diversity,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-008", "start": 145.16, "end": 145.7, "text": "there's so much diversity, there's so many students.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-009", "start": 145.84, "end": 148.88, "text": "And because education resources are scarce in China,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-010", "start": 149.02, "end": 150.38, "text": "meaning there are not that many universities,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-011", "start": 150.74, "end": 153.96, "text": "we have a competitive college entrance examination,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-012", "start": 154.36, "end": 157.26, "text": "which every child has to take in order to get into college.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-013", "start": 157.52, "end": 161.88, "text": "And that's considered the fairest way to distribute scarce education resources.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-014", "start": 162.3, "end": 163.94, "text": "At the same time, as you can imagine,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-015", "start": 164.28, "end": 167.44, "text": "this creates a lot of pressure on kids to perform.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-016", "start": 168, "end": 171.84, "text": "So we have a very stressful school system.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-017", "start": 172.44, "end": 174.08, "text": "And just with ed tech,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-018", "start": 175.18, "end": 180.86, "text": "I would say that China has many advantages that has enabled China", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-019", "start": 180.86, "end": 181.8, "text": "to become the world's", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-020", "start": 181.8, "end": 183.82, "text": "most, the biggest ed tech market,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-021", "start": 183.92, "end": 184.78, "text": "but also the most lucrative.", "word_count": 5 } ], "text_sha256": "7825b153723e27444eeafaca03c4b62796632649e971538abacd4283c0511f97", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0004", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=120s", "time_label": "2:00", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0005", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents will go into heavy debt to finance their child's education. We also mean it in terms of time and emotion as well. So parents will, every evening, they're going to go to school, they're going to go to school, they're going to spend their evenings helping their kids do homework. And when parents get together, all they talk about are their kids' education, their test scores and all of that. As you can imagine, this is very stressful. Second major advantage is that because there's an obsession with test scores, that's actually good for ed tech, right? Because it makes education into a solvable problem. If you think about education as well -being, ed tech really can solve that problem.", "word_count": 155, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-001", "start": 185, "end": 187.7, "text": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-002", "start": 187.92, "end": 191, "text": "The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-003", "start": 191.42, "end": 194.4, "text": "So parents are heavily invested in their child's education.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-004", "start": 194.64, "end": 196.14, "text": "We mean this financially, right?", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-005", "start": 196.22, "end": 199.1, "text": "So parents will go into heavy debt to finance their child's education.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-006", "start": 199.46, "end": 202.72, "text": "We also mean it in terms of time and emotion as well.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-007", "start": 202.84, "end": 205.06, "text": "So parents will, every evening,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-008", "start": 205.06, "end": 205.16, "text": "they're going to go to school,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-009", "start": 205.16, "end": 205.16, "text": "they're going to go to school,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-010", "start": 205.16, "end": 208.46, "text": "they're going to spend their evenings helping their kids do homework.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-011", "start": 208.96, "end": 210.12, "text": "And when parents get together,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-012", "start": 210.16, "end": 213.32, "text": "all they talk about are their kids' education,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-013", "start": 213.7, "end": 215.5, "text": "their test scores and all of that.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-014", "start": 216, "end": 217.56, "text": "As you can imagine, this is very stressful.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-015", "start": 218.2, "end": 224.26, "text": "Second major advantage is that because there's an obsession with test scores,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-016", "start": 224.6, "end": 226.8, "text": "that's actually good for ed tech,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-017", "start": 226.94, "end": 229.44, "text": "right? Because it makes education into a solvable problem.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-018", "start": 230.64, "end": 234.02, "text": "If you think about education as well -being,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-019", "start": 234.26, "end": 234.76, "text": "ed", "word_count": 1 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-020", "start": 234.76, "end": 235.86, "text": "tech really can solve that problem.", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "eaa25d99e3c3fd194c5fa14b8fd66aa305046fadb8f976a13f0461402ce2f4b7", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0005", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=185s", "time_label": "3:05", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0006", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than use three or four different apps, teachers and parents and students can communicate just using WeChat. They can communicate, they can live stream their teaching, they can send lesson plans over, they can do everything within WeChat. So that's basically a rough summary of the Chinese education context.", "word_count": 86, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-001", "start": 236.04, "end": 237.34, "text": "If it's just about including test scores,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-002", "start": 237.7, "end": 239.4, "text": "then ed tech can solve that problem.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-003", "start": 239.78, "end": 244.84, "text": "And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-004", "start": 244.84, "end": 248.24, "text": "WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-005", "start": 248.48, "end": 250.48, "text": "So rather than use three or four different apps,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-006", "start": 250.74, "end": 255.16, "text": "teachers and parents and students can communicate just using WeChat.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-007", "start": 255.38, "end": 257.34, "text": "They can communicate, they can live stream their teaching,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-008", "start": 257.7, "end": 259.18, "text": "they can send lesson plans over,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-009", "start": 259.4, "end": 261.3, "text": "they can do everything within WeChat.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-010", "start": 261.54, "end": 263.58, "text": "So that's basically a rough summary of the", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-011", "start": 263.58, "end": 265.96, "text": "Chinese education context.", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "e4616aef3069486864d926c5dfe3df965326c75e40d995e0df97ad5f9b3ac4d9", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0006", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=236s", "time_label": "3:56", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0007", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "start": 266.67, "end": 309.49, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "And so, Jiang, you talk about so many schools and because of the high pressure kind of environment that you have and the expectations that are quite high when it comes to children's education in China, you say what you talk about and you touched on and we want to talk about more about is the use of learning technologies, also referred to as ed tech, there's quite a few success stories that come from China, but also on the same side of the coin are the failures, but which we don't necessarily hear about as much. And so let's take that in that order. So, you know, what would you say are the ed tech success stories from China?", "word_count": 120, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-001", "start": 266.67, "end": 273.87, "text": "And so, Jiang, you talk about so many schools and because of", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-002", "start": 273.87, "end": 278.17, "text": "the high pressure kind of environment that you have and the expectations", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-003", "start": 278.17, "end": 282.27, "text": "that are quite high when it comes to children's education in China,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-004", "start": 282.79, "end": 285.65, "text": "you say what you talk about and you touched on and we", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-005", "start": 285.65, "end": 290.03, "text": "want to talk about more about is the use of learning technologies,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-006", "start": 290.09, "end": 291.69, "text": "also referred to as ed tech,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-007", "start": 293.65, "end": 296.99, "text": "there's quite a few success stories that come from China,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-008", "start": 297.07, "end": 300.71, "text": "but also on the same side of the coin are the failures,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-009", "start": 300.75, "end": 302.89, "text": "but which we don't necessarily hear about as much.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-010", "start": 303.27, "end": 305.35, "text": "And so let's take that in that order.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-011", "start": 305.51, "end": 308.15, "text": "So, you know, what would you say are the ed tech success", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-012", "start": 308.15, "end": 309.49, "text": "stories from China?", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "cdc5c4c43cd4c510674cc1c81d502782e2d676491f3045cbf5e7ecb8b267da34", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0007", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=266s", "time_label": "4:26", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0008", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "start": 310.03, "end": 365.522, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Right. Thanks. So I would say there are three major successes we see every day in China. The first in terms of parental engagement. So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst themselves on how to improve their child's learning. And if you think about it, these online communities, they create these instantaneous feedback loops, right? So if you're a parent and you have a question, the teacher responds right away or another parent responds right away. That increases focus, motivation and engagement. So that's one major success. Second success is in terms of teacher training. So urban teachers are responsible for mentoring rural teachers. And what they'll do is they'll send their lesson plans over, they'll live stream their teaching so that rural teachers can emulate the teaching. And then rural teachers themselves will teach a class themselves, live stream it and get instantaneous real time feedback from the urban teachers.", "word_count": 156, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-001", "start": 310.03, "end": 311.05, "text": "Right. Thanks.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-002", "start": 311.19, "end": 314.41, "text": "So I would say there are three major successes we see every", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-003", "start": 314.41, "end": 315.01, "text": "day in China.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-004", "start": 315.13, "end": 317.31, "text": "The first in terms of parental engagement.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-005", "start": 317.69, "end": 324.61, "text": "So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-006", "start": 324.61, "end": 326.53, "text": "themselves on how to improve their child's learning.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-007", "start": 327.21, "end": 328.67, "text": "And if you think about it,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-008", "start": 328.73, "end": 331.63, "text": "these online communities, they create these instantaneous feedback loops,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-009", "start": 331.87, "end": 333.41, "text": "right? So if you're a parent and you have a question,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-010", "start": 333.53, "end": 336.27, "text": "the teacher responds right away or another parent responds right away.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-011", "start": 336.41, "end": 339.35, "text": "That increases focus, motivation and engagement.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-012", "start": 339.69, "end": 340.77, "text": "So that's one major success.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-013", "start": 341.29, "end": 343.83, "text": "Second success is in terms of teacher training.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-014", "start": 344.33, "end": 348.25, "text": "So urban teachers are responsible for mentoring rural teachers.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-015", "start": 348.55, "end": 351.61, "text": "And what they'll do is they'll send their lesson plans over,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-016", "start": 351.85, "end": 355.45, "text": "they'll live stream their teaching so that rural teachers can emulate the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-017", "start": 355.45, "end": 359.89, "text": "teaching. And then rural teachers themselves will teach a class themselves,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-018", "start": 360.17, "end": 365.25, "text": "live stream it and get instantaneous real time feedback from the urban", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-019", "start": 365.25, "end": 365.522, "text": "teachers.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "b99254ded1fb8a548d841be591bf8f549cbf2bd517e98217b479c0acc96adaf9", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0008", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=310s", "time_label": "5:10", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0009", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "start": 365.522, "end": 406.51, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "And this is a way to scaffold rapid teaching improvement in poor areas. And the third area of success, and this is really a major area of success is in test preparation. So that students in smaller cities are able to access better education resources. They're able to get teachers to tutor them online. This is very lucrative for both teachers and for online providers. EdTech also has enabled students to do many test questions and get instantaneous feedback. And what we're finding is that it does improve test scores. So it's a lot better to do more test questions than it is to learn the material more deeply.", "word_count": 109, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-001", "start": 365.522, "end": 371.71, "text": "And this is a way to scaffold rapid teaching improvement in poor areas.", "word_count": 13 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-002", "start": 372.37, "end": 374.25, "text": "And the third area of success,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-003", "start": 374.57, "end": 377.03, "text": "and this is really a major area of success is in test", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-004", "start": 377.03, "end": 381.33, "text": "preparation. So that students in smaller cities are able to access better", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-005", "start": 381.33, "end": 382.03, "text": "education resources.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-006", "start": 383.47, "end": 386.89, "text": "They're able to get teachers to tutor them online.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-007", "start": 387.19, "end": 391.07, "text": "This is very lucrative for both teachers and for online providers.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-008", "start": 391.99, "end": 396.95, "text": "EdTech also has enabled students to do many test questions and get", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-009", "start": 396.95, "end": 397.83, "text": "instantaneous feedback.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-010", "start": 398.19, "end": 400.83, "text": "And what we're finding is that it does improve test scores.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-011", "start": 401.09, "end": 404.47, "text": "So it's a lot better to do more test questions than it", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-012", "start": 404.47, "end": 406.51, "text": "is to learn the material more deeply.", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "ee740a2e7394ab321dc0095598023c53b9228e7ad1b7b4311d7d02dfff4893a4", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0009", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=365s", "time_label": "6:05", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0010", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "start": 407.35, "end": 439.01, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "So there's a, in this part of the world, it needs to be a little bit different. There's a lot of companies in the Middle East, you know, there's a swathe of companies in the EdTech sector that do fantastically well. So one, for example, we have the founder of a company called Pango on here, which is all to do with lesson planning and resource sharing for teachers. And they've built a community. In a similar way, what are the big EdTech businesses in China called and what is it that they're focused on?", "word_count": 95, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-001", "start": 407.35, "end": 412.45, "text": "So there's a, in this part of the world,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-002", "start": 412.47, "end": 412.67, "text": "it needs to be a little bit different.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-003", "start": 412.67, "end": 412.85, "text": "There's a lot of companies in the Middle East,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-004", "start": 412.85, "end": 419.77, "text": "you know, there's a swathe of companies in the EdTech sector that", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-005", "start": 419.77, "end": 421.29, "text": "do fantastically well.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-006", "start": 421.37, "end": 424.99, "text": "So one, for example, we have the founder of a company called", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-007", "start": 424.99, "end": 429.05, "text": "Pango on here, which is all to do with lesson planning and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-008", "start": 429.05, "end": 430.15, "text": "resource sharing for teachers.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-009", "start": 430.29, "end": 431.53, "text": "And they've built a community.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-010", "start": 432.51, "end": 437.05, "text": "In a similar way, what are the big EdTech businesses in China", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-011", "start": 437.05, "end": 439.01, "text": "called and what is it that they're focused on?", "word_count": 9 } ], "text_sha256": "d5a2a609d1c35a0556ac26128e94305803f4d36fad754c3ba83be004d6dbab1f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0010", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=407s", "time_label": "6:47", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0011", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries. And that's very popular. Parents love it. You know, learning English is a priority here in China. So VIPKID is an example of a success story. There's also something called Skrill AI, which you probably know. But Skrill AI, they do test prep and they're AI based. So students will go into these test centers after school and then they'll sit in front of a computer and then they'll do test questions. And based on the performance, the computer will then customize test questions for them. And Skrill AI has been extremely successful here in China. So I would say those are the two big EdTech success stories here so far.", "word_count": 150, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-001", "start": 439.35, "end": 442.99, "text": "Right. So one example is VIPKID.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-002", "start": 442.99, "end": 446.09, "text": "In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-003", "start": 446.09, "end": 446.57, "text": "in China.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-004", "start": 446.67, "end": 448.45, "text": "So one example is VIPKID.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-005", "start": 448.81, "end": 455.29, "text": "What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-006", "start": 455.29, "end": 457.05, "text": "Western countries.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-007", "start": 457.27, "end": 458.97, "text": "And that's very popular.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-008", "start": 459.53, "end": 460.63, "text": "Parents love it.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-009", "start": 461.71, "end": 464.49, "text": "You know, learning English is a priority here in China.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-010", "start": 464.61, "end": 467.87, "text": "So VIPKID is an example of a success story.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-011", "start": 468.23, "end": 470.59, "text": "There's also something called Skrill AI,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-012", "start": 470.85, "end": 471.63, "text": "which you probably know.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-013", "start": 471.87, "end": 476.13, "text": "But Skrill AI, they do test prep and they're AI based.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-014", "start": 476.31, "end": 479.81, "text": "So students will go into these test centers after school and then", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-015", "start": 479.81, "end": 482.33, "text": "they'll sit in front of a computer and then they'll do test", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-016", "start": 482.33, "end": 484.59, "text": "questions. And based on the performance,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-017", "start": 484.91, "end": 488.95, "text": "the computer will then customize test questions for them.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-018", "start": 489.19, "end": 494.11, "text": "And Skrill AI has been extremely successful here in China.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-019", "start": 494.29, "end": 496.85, "text": "So I would say those are the two big EdTech success stories", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-020", "start": 496.85, "end": 497.35, "text": "here so far.", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "d859291c7c5c472596df82785c4c6751d3585c2facc9cddeadd00b6366182c64", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0011", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=439s", "time_label": "7:19", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0012", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "start": 497.79, "end": 526.11, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "And when we talk about the flip side of the coin, you know, what are the two big EdTech success stories here so far? Well, one of the things that as a result of through the use of EdTech, we've now realized are some of its biggest failures. Tell us about that in terms of, I know that you are not necessarily a votary of the use of tech. So tell us a little bit as to what you think the failings are as a result of the use of tech in Chinese classrooms.", "word_count": 94, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-001", "start": 497.79, "end": 501.37, "text": "And when we talk about the flip side of the coin,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-002", "start": 501.63, "end": 502.55, "text": "you know, what are the two big EdTech success stories here so", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-003", "start": 502.55, "end": 505.75, "text": "far? Well, one of the things that as a result of through", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-004", "start": 505.75, "end": 509.65, "text": "the use of EdTech, we've now realized are some of its biggest", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-005", "start": 509.65, "end": 513.09, "text": "failures. Tell us about that in terms of,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-006", "start": 513.15, "end": 516.81, "text": "I know that you are not necessarily a votary of the use", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-007", "start": 516.81, "end": 517.21, "text": "of tech.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-008", "start": 517.69, "end": 522.09, "text": "So tell us a little bit as to what you think the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-009", "start": 522.09, "end": 525.65, "text": "failings are as a result of the use of tech in Chinese", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-010", "start": 525.65, "end": 526.11, "text": "classrooms.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "822f2abd165a34e56a899d322fbd8e5dc7f4bd4dc02e2cd57fe08271867b550e", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0012", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=497s", "time_label": "8:17", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0013", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and what we're finding in China is that EdTech doesn't make students more interestingly motivated. In fact, it can often make them less motivated and I believe this is also true in other contexts as well, right? Because of Covid -19. Kids are learning at home and what we're finding is that the learning gap between interestingly motivated students and other students have greatly increased. So motivation is, is, is, is and it's, I think, it's super important for me. something that I think is true throughout the world secondly is equity so China has spent billions of dollars in providing rapid access to rural schools you know rural schools they lack good teachers I mean and the idea is that hey if", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-001", "start": 526.39, "end": 529.95, "text": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-002", "start": 529.95, "end": 531.49, "text": "failed us is in terms of motivation,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-003", "start": 532.55, "end": 534.47, "text": "equity and creativity, right?", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-004", "start": 534.55, "end": 538.51, "text": "So motivation is that to be great learners,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-005", "start": 538.53, "end": 541.01, "text": "students have to be interestingly motivated and what we're finding in China", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-006", "start": 541.01, "end": 544.09, "text": "is that EdTech doesn't make students more interestingly motivated.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-007", "start": 544.31, "end": 547.89, "text": "In fact, it can often make them less motivated and I believe", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-008", "start": 547.89, "end": 549.99, "text": "this is also true in other contexts as well,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-009", "start": 550.03, "end": 551.39, "text": "right? Because of Covid -19.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-010", "start": 551.57, "end": 555.05, "text": "Kids are learning at home and what we're finding is that the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-011", "start": 555.05, "end": 561.05, "text": "learning gap between interestingly motivated students and other students have greatly increased.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-012", "start": 561.23, "end": 562.47, "text": "So motivation is, is, is,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-013", "start": 562.51, "end": 562.51, "text": "is and it's, I think,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-014", "start": 562.51, "end": 562.53, "text": "it's super important for me.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-015", "start": 562.55, "end": 565.45, "text": "something that I think is true throughout the world secondly is equity", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-016", "start": 568.07, "end": 573.83, "text": "so China has spent billions of dollars in providing rapid access to", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-017", "start": 573.83, "end": 578.41, "text": "rural schools you know rural schools they lack good teachers I mean", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-018", "start": 578.41, "end": 580.31, "text": "and the idea is that hey if", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "27b045ef4a038a4d1f083b91d8dea6d0d9f9bb95d4c9548862f53909f3710601", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0013", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=526s", "time_label": "8:46", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0014", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger problem than lack of access to technology and the third big area is creativity so you know Chinese schools have spent a lot of money on smart boards on really the most advanced technology but it often makes teachers lazy because what you just can do is they can download a PPD a PowerPoint from online and then recite it in class so EdTech has been a double -edged sword for for schools and and you know I think the main takeaway is that you know EdTech does not remedy and amplifies so if you're a school that's struggling it makes you struggle a little more if your school that's thriving it makes you thrive even more and I think that what EdTech", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0014-chunk-001", "start": 580.31, "end": 585.83, "text": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0014-chunk-002", "start": 585.83, "end": 589.37, "text": "learning outcomes of 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"episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0014", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=580s", "time_label": "9:40", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0015", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "start": 639.47, "end": 649.67, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "has taught us in China is the importance of providing emotional support to students on focusing on their well -being and making sure that the part of others has what they call many bird's eye view of their own learning", "word_count": 40, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0015-chunk-001", "start": 639.47, "end": 643.91, "text": "has taught us in China is the importance of providing emotional support", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0015-chunk-002", "start": 643.91, "end": 648.61, "text": "to students on focusing on their well -being and making sure that", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0015-chunk-003", "start": 648.61, "end": 649.67, "text": "the part of others has what they call many bird's eye view", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0015-chunk-004", "start": 649.67, "end": 649.67, "text": "of their own learning", "word_count": 4 } ], "text_sha256": "15a515c448ebc3f5b8a60b5a584234a2d067209e947e49c21527503ec808ac9f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0015", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=639s", "time_label": "10:39", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0016", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "start": 649.67, "end": 669.16, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "loving and supportive community I mean but is that a common thing I mean from what our perception of Chinese education is and what you said earlier was this incessant focus on test prep and test score right right that lead to a caring community towards that child in the learner right okay so that's a good", "word_count": 57, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-001", "start": 649.67, "end": 653.56, "text": "loving and supportive community I mean but is that a common thing", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-002", "start": 653.56, "end": 657.9, "text": "I mean from what our perception of Chinese education is and what", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-003", "start": 657.9, "end": 661.4, "text": "you said earlier was this incessant focus on test prep and test", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-004", "start": 661.4, "end": 666.18, "text": "score right right that lead to a caring community towards that child", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-005", "start": 666.18, "end": 669.16, "text": "in the learner right okay so that's a good", "word_count": 9 } ], "text_sha256": "8e84008711785b36289e3892b7209b299689398219378f742bba69bade8c36b9", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0016", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=649s", "time_label": "10:49", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0017", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rural schools and i've been you know focused a lot on rural school transformation how do you make a low -performing school into a better performance school and the answer is not actually more technology the answer is more community so principals who've gone in and transformed schools have done certain things right first is they get parents more engaged this means visiting a parent's home and says listen i'm here i'm new here i have a lot to learn but i want to be your friend if you have any concerns about your child come see me it means helping teachers develop right so so every morning the principal will sit down with teachers and", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-001", "start": 669.16, "end": 684.16, "text": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-002", "start": 684.16, "end": 688.7, "text": "you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-003", "start": 688.7, "end": 692.5, "text": "scores so let me give you give you some examples of this", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-004", "start": 692.5, "end": 697.54, "text": "okay so um i've done some research in rural schools and i've", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-005", "start": 697.54, "end": 701.12, "text": "been you know focused a lot on rural school transformation how do", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-006", "start": 701.12, "end": 705.16, "text": "you make a low -performing school into a better performance school and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-007", "start": 705.16, "end": 708.8, "text": "the answer is not actually more technology the answer is more community", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-008", "start": 708.8, "end": 713.74, "text": "so principals who've gone in and transformed schools have done certain things", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-009", "start": 713.74, "end": 717.94, "text": "right first is they get parents more engaged this means visiting a", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-010", "start": 717.94, "end": 721.24, "text": "parent's home and says listen i'm here i'm new here i have", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-011", "start": 721.24, "end": 723.96, "text": "a lot to learn but i want to be your friend if", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0017-chunk-012", "start": 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students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh please give them a poll and then this is what we call the gist of this um you know this is bad speech but it's about giving students a chance to learn and to have a meaningful conversation with their teacher to give them a chance to learn and to have a meaningful conversation with the teacher their students have a chance to share their experience with their teachers so uh that's a huge perspective but i think something that i've learned here at gmail is that a higher test scores and that's why there's so much money invested and that's why there's so much parental support behind edtech but the research tells us that it's actually the", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0018-chunk-001", "start": 733.62, "end": 737.94, "text": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0018-chunk-002", "start": 737.94, "end": 737.94, 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issue as you say there's a", "word_count": 108, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0019-chunk-001", "start": 775.8, "end": 779.8, "text": "community support that leads to higher test scores i mean so jen", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0019-chunk-002", "start": 779.8, "end": 783.3, "text": "i know that you and i have this discussion but but i", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0019-chunk-003", "start": 783.3, "end": 786.7, "text": "want to just ask you this question because i think the viewers", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0019-chunk-004", "start": 786.7, "end": 790.86, "text": "and the audience for this live stream may be interested is you", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0019-chunk-005", "start": 790.86, "end": 793.32, "text": "know over the last few years like i said in my introduction", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0019-chunk-006", "start": 793.32, "end": 797.9, "text": "obviously certain cities in china have done very well when it comes", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": 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snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and they're the most developed in the world and they're the most important provinces um in china um we also have to look at the history of chinese education right so um from 1949 to 1999 there's a heavy focus on equity issues in in china meaning that a lot of really well educated urban teachers were sent to world areas to to teach and that had that transformative effect on chinese education which led to massive dividends today so in 1999 only a quarter of chinese could read and write uh it was the priority of the government to make sure that everyone was literate so there was this massive campaign to send these urban teachers to these rural areas and um over", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0020-chunk-001", "start": 811.6, "end": 815.46, "text": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a 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"end": 869.62, "text": "areas and um over", "word_count": 4 } ], "text_sha256": "2ee274422a7dd7f9620915237512be9f9c0b948e2a56175dc9aa06c0a4d24f84", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0020", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=811s", "time_label": "13:31", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0021", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher quality it was actually one of mentality so so 1949 um that around that time there's a real fatalism that was destroying communities in these rural areas they didn't believe they could leave the countryside they believed that listen i'm a farmer my kids can be a farmer his his my grandchildren are going to be farmers so why study what was the point i mean if you go to the urban areas there's a real optimism about education like other education can transform life but what happened when you sent urban teachers to these rural communities is they brought their optimism with them and they believed in these kids and these kids found the motivation to work hard so let me", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-001", "start": 869.62, "end": 873.52, "text": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-002", "start": 873.52, "end": 878.42, "text": "really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-003", "start": 878.96, "end": 881.76, "text": "between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-004", "start": 881.76, "end": 886, "text": "of teacher quality it was actually one of mentality so so 1949", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-005", "start": 886, "end": 891.14, "text": "um that around that time there's a real fatalism that was destroying", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-006", "start": 891.14, "end": 895.82, "text": "communities in these rural areas they didn't believe they could leave the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-007", "start": 895.82, "end": 899.48, "text": "countryside they believed that listen i'm a farmer my kids can be", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-008", "start": 899.48, "end": 903.5, "text": "a farmer his his my grandchildren are going to be farmers so", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-009", "start": 903.5, "end": 906.5, "text": "why study what was the point i mean if you go to", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-010", "start": 906.5, "end": 910.78, "text": "the urban areas there's a real optimism about 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"source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "start": 924.9, "end": 977.27, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "tell you a story um that highlights this um i used to go to high school as you know tony university high school one of the best high schools in china my boss there one in june he actually grew up in the countryside during the cultural revolution he was a private school kid he was an astrophysicist he was probably a coward but he was a coloring book one of the best in the world he really loved drawing he loved drawing and he was very good at it but when he went to the art school and saw the students doing the like the painting he was a picturesque person he was like i just wanted to be a picture picture quickly so we would take the picture and then we did this thing and then the teacher would do it and they started to teach him by his thought processes and by his love of learning so", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0022-chunk-001", 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"start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country everyone was paid the same you were a doctor you were a teacher you were a laborer you were a peasant you were paid exactly the same amount of money so the best and brightest the best students they went into teaching because they enjoyed school and they enjoyed sharing their teaching with with other other kids and because they were so bright they really made the Chinese school system into a very vibrant and creative school system I think this is something people don't really understand that before 1999 China was a very vibrant school system John Dewey experimental education holistic learning they were all major influences on Chinese education prior to 1999 with the advance of the market economy unfortunately 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is still a highly respected profession teachers work extremely hard and I think a lot of it is due to the cultural obsession education here in in China parents are very deferential to teachers so teachers feel motivated to work hard and it becomes a virtuous feedback loop if you think about it right parents are differential to teachers teachers are motivated so they work harder so parents become more differential so I believe teachers are as highly respected as doctors here in China they work very hard I mean like you know I'm a teacher trainer I've worked with a lot of Chinese teachers what really impresses me is their passion for learning for self -improvement when I go teach when I", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0026-chunk-001", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1105.71, "text": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0026-chunk-002", "start": 1105.71, "end": 1108.75, "text": "and you can imagine this 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"/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0027", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1162s", "time_label": "19:22", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0028", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0028", "start": 1169.14, "end": 1185.26, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "that's one extreme I'm so gratifying and so you know most parts of the world Jiang have a have a teacher recruitment and retention crisis does the same apply to China so that's a great question I believe China has done", "word_count": 41, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-001", "start": 1169.14, "end": 1172.76, "text": "that's one extreme I'm so gratifying and so you know most parts", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-002", "start": 1172.76, "end": 1176.44, "text": "of the world Jiang have a have a teacher recruitment and retention", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-003", "start": 1176.44, "end": 1182.78, "text": "crisis does the same apply to China so that's a great question", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-004", "start": 1182.78, "end": 1185.26, "text": "I believe China has done", "word_count": 5 } ], "text_sha256": "3eae9f03aa4e1b39f8b516781b79b5c3d0bc97392667a8a0540de72b84380ff0", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0028", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1169s", "time_label": "19:29", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0029", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "start": 1185.26, "end": 1239.86, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "an amazing job in terms of teacher retention rates so why is that China has a great system of teacher training right so you come into the system you have mentors every week you have one day of professional development and you as a teacher can see yourself develop over time you become better um there's a real focus on collaboration and on improvement and this community has um really um made teachers more motivated um and and so retention rate is actually quite high in china and i think this is a lesson that the rest of the world can learn don't focus on pay don't focus on status focus more on continuous learning and development because then the teachers will feel they're contributing to", "word_count": 126, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-001", "start": 1185.26, "end": 1190.94, "text": "an amazing job in terms of teacher retention rates so why is", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-002", "start": 1190.94, "end": 1196.1, "text": "that China has a great system of teacher training right so you", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-003", "start": 1196.1, "end": 1203.72, "text": "come into the system you have mentors every week you have one", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-004", "start": 1203.72, "end": 1207.5, "text": "day of professional development and you as a teacher can see yourself", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-005", "start": 1207.5, "end": 1212.78, "text": "develop over time you become better um there's a real focus on", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-006", "start": 1212.78, "end": 1220.2, "text": "collaboration and on improvement and this community has um really um made", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-007", "start": 1220.2, "end": 1225.4, "text": "teachers more motivated um and and so retention rate is actually quite", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-008", "start": 1225.4, "end": 1228, "text": "high in china and i think this is a lesson that the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-009", "start": 1228, "end": 1232.2, "text": "rest of the world can learn don't focus on pay don't focus", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-010", "start": 1232.2, "end": 1237.02, "text": "on status focus more on continuous learning and development because then the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-011", "start": 1237.02, "end": 1239.86, "text": "teachers will feel they're contributing to", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "e7cd7f3757456d0c677f5ac54c170b4ac6ecaad5b9fae09f4468e1afd0242f96", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0029", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1185s", "time_label": "19:45", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0030", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "start": 1239.86, "end": 1259.74, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "community and they feel a lot better about themselves so jiang i know that you also uh have some thoughts on what is called the third education revolution can you paint out what you think that is yeah the reason i say that is that i think we're still stuck in the first yeah yeah", "word_count": 55, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-001", "start": 1239.86, "end": 1244.2, "text": "community and they feel a lot better about themselves so jiang i", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-002", "start": 1244.2, "end": 1248, "text": "know that you also uh have some thoughts on what is called", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-003", "start": 1248, "end": 1252.4, "text": "the third education revolution can you paint out what you think that", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-004", "start": 1252.4, "end": 1256.6, "text": "is yeah the reason i say that is that i think we're", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-005", "start": 1256.6, "end": 1259.74, "text": "still stuck in the first yeah yeah", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "2a7e5130a46a31ce69e171d8299bd72e018a672f9a920e2981338279110cab5b", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0030", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1239s", "time_label": "20:39", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0031", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brought up about because of because of course the industrial revolution the second education revolution is a bit of a meritocracy and this has really created the world we live in today right the idea that the best and brightest should go to the best universities and that's that's what's really come propel the knowledge economy and i think the third education revolution is to bring science democracy into education to make sure that your education on oxford education can be everyone can access um bachelor of education um so and i think that what what we need to do in order to bring about the third education revolution is to change education from an art into an", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-001", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1264.26, "text": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-002", "start": 1264.26, "end": 1268.02, "text": "of a black school system right the idea that um students can", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-003", "start": 1268.02, "end": 1271.18, "text": "go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-004", "start": 1271.18, "end": 1275.2, "text": "learn stuff um and this was brought up about because of because", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-005", "start": 1275.2, "end": 1279, "text": "of course the industrial revolution the second education revolution is a bit", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-006", "start": 1279, "end": 1281.9, "text": "of a meritocracy and this has really created the world we live", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-007", "start": 1281.9, "end": 1284.2, "text": "in today right the idea that the best and brightest should go", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-008", "start": 1284.2, "end": 1288.36, "text": "to the best universities and that's that's what's really come propel the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-009", "start": 1288.36, "end": 1292.64, "text": "knowledge economy and i think the third education revolution is to bring", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-010", "start": 1292.64, "end": 1298.67, "text": "science democracy into education to make sure that your education on oxford", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-011", "start": 1298.67, "end": 1305.27, "text": "education can be everyone can access um bachelor of education um so", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-012", "start": 1305.27, "end": 1310.58, "text": "and i think that what what we need to do in order", 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said listen we need data we need evidence uh we need rigorous examination of what we know and what we we don't know and that's what about a revolution in medicine and i believe that by bringing science into it into education we can bring about the third education revolution and i believe that artificial intelligence can play a vital role in helping us bring science into education", "word_count": 110, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-001", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1320.02, "text": "art into a science right so i think that education today is", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-002", "start": 1320.02, "end": 1323.74, "text": "like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-003", "start": 1323.74, "end": 1327.82, "text": "it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-004", "start": 1327.82, "end": 1331.22, "text": "who came into the medical profession 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"word_count": 97, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-001", "start": 1351.58, "end": 1355.6, "text": "you'll understand my skepticism jung when i say to you that you", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-002", "start": 1355.6, "end": 1360.78, "text": "know your your your your pitch that ai can transform education because", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-003", "start": 1360.78, "end": 1366.42, "text": "of the collation of data and then the processing of data will", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-004", "start": 1366.42, "end": 1372.52, "text": "will draw rancor around the world actually um and so and so", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-005", "start": 1372.52, "end": 1376.48, "text": "how do you react to that because there is obviously what you", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-006", "start": 1376.48, "end": 1379.66, "text": "you make a lot of assumptions in what you've said there or", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": 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assumptions assumptions. And we have a lot of beliefs. And we don't actually question these assumptions and beliefs. And you know, a lot of them are just slogans that are passed around like, well being, creativity, what does this actually mean from some problem from from from some perspective. And so I think it's really important that we as educators need to think very deeply about what we believe and ask ourselves is the science and evidence and data back up what we believe, to be honest with you, you know, you and I have been to a lot of education conferences, you and I will both note that these conferences are basically the same, it's really the same people saying the same things over and over. And I think a lot of it's because these assumptions are not being challenged.", "word_count": 161, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-001", "start": 1391.5, "end": 1401.96, "text": "um core essence of what you're doing at this time of day", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-002", "start": 1401.96, "end": 1408.46, "text": "but you have to have a lot of assumptions assumptions.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-003", "start": 1408.76, "end": 1410.04, "text": "And we have a lot of beliefs.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-004", "start": 1410.38, "end": 1413.76, "text": "And we don't actually question these assumptions and beliefs.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-005", "start": 1414.12, "end": 1416.6, "text": "And you know, a lot of them are just slogans that are", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-006", "start": 1416.6, "end": 1418.68, "text": "passed around like, well being,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-007", "start": 1418.84, "end": 1424.08, "text": "creativity, what does this actually mean from some problem from from from", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-008", "start": 1424.08, "end": 1424.64, "text": "some perspective.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-009", "start": 1425.38, "end": 1430.22, "text": "And so I think it's really important that we as educators need", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-010", "start": 1430.22, "end": 1434.14, "text": "to think very deeply about what we believe and ask ourselves is", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-011", "start": 1434.14, "end": 1437.96, "text": "the science and evidence and data back up what we believe,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-012", "start": 1438.18, "end": 1439.4, "text": "to be honest with you,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-013", "start": 1439.44, "end": 1441.22, "text": "you know, you and I have been to a lot of education", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-014", "start": 1441.22, "end": 1446.22, "text": "conferences, you and I will both note that these conferences are basically", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-015", "start": 1446.22, "end": 1449.72, "text": "the same, it's really the same people saying the same things over", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-016", "start": 1449.72, "end": 1450.36, "text": "and over.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-017", "start": 1450.58, "end": 1453.08, "text": "And I think a lot of it's because these assumptions are not", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-018", "start": 1453.08, "end": 1453.38, "text": "being", "word_count": 1 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-019", "start": 1453.38, "end": 1453.857, "text": "challenged.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "b22d528ec4ea6dedd577a98d66c95c47b7b1e08f7dc03d19fae9774e07da511c", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0034", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1391s", "time_label": "23:11", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0035", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "start": 1453.857, "end": 1469.86, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "And so I think artificial intelligence, what it can do is provide real time data and evidence for us to question these assumptions. So let me give you an example of this. Okay, so what do we mean by evidence in education?", "word_count": 42, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-001", "start": 1453.857, "end": 1456.72, "text": "And so I think artificial intelligence,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-002", "start": 1456.84, "end": 1462.56, "text": "what it can do is provide real time data and evidence for", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-003", "start": 1462.56, "end": 1463.9, "text": "us to question these assumptions.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-004", "start": 1464.36, "end": 1466.3, "text": "So let me give you an example of this.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-005", "start": 1466.4, "end": 1469.86, "text": "Okay, so what do we mean by evidence in education?", "word_count": 10 } ], "text_sha256": "273b1b54ea205da53f8fd54783926309a374e18a5be4609e469f76d7ad9336ef", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0035", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1453s", "time_label": "24:13", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0036", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "start": 1471.12, "end": 1479.2, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Let me stop you. Let me stop you. Sorry, I can't ask you again. But does it not lead to the deep professionalization of teaching?", "word_count": 25, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-001", "start": 1471.12, "end": 1472.4, "text": "Let me stop you.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-002", "start": 1472.46, "end": 1472.92, "text": "Let me stop you.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-003", "start": 1472.96, "end": 1475.68, "text": "Sorry, I can't ask you again.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-004", "start": 1475.9, "end": 1479.2, "text": "But does it not lead to the deep professionalization of teaching?", "word_count": 11 } ], "text_sha256": "d7215c20e3f13b6f3db77cb97012bd5a1fd0e4e4f90463489068dfd15bcd3be2", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0036", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1471s", "time_label": "24:31", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0037", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "start": 1481.16, "end": 1532.76, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Um, okay, that's a good question. If, if we, we as educators do not participate in the process, it can, in fact, lead to the replacement of teachers, right? I mean, if you just talk to a technology technologist, who has a very one sided perspective about what education means and does, basically, he's like, okay, well, let's just improve test scores, and parents will be happy, and they'll pay for this product, right? So all we have to do is improve test scores. So how do we improve test scores, we make kids do test runs every single day, and that will improve test scores over a short amount of time. And we know that to be true. In long term, this will create corrosive effects. And will stop a child's emotional development. And we know that, right. So the fear is that if we educators do not participate in this process of discussing the power of AI, in", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-001", "start": 1481.16, "end": 1483.34, "text": "Um, okay, that's a good question.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-002", "start": 1483.8, "end": 1488.18, "text": "If, if we, we as educators do not participate in the process,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-003", "start": 1488.38, "end": 1492.9, "text": "it can, in fact, lead to the replacement of teachers,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-004", "start": 1493.1, "end": 1496.32, "text": "right? I mean, if you just talk to a technology technologist,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-005", "start": 1497.02, "end": 1500.72, "text": "who has a very one sided perspective about what education means and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-006", "start": 1500.72, "end": 1503, "text": "does, basically, he's like, okay,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-007", "start": 1503.06, "end": 1504.32, "text": "well, let's just improve test scores,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-008", "start": 1504.44, "end": 1505.54, "text": "and parents will be happy,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-009", "start": 1505.64, "end": 1506.64, "text": "and they'll pay for this product,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-010", "start": 1506.78, "end": 1509.2, "text": "right? So all we have to do is improve test scores.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-011", "start": 1509.38, "end": 1510.36, "text": "So how do we improve test scores,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-012", "start": 1510.48, "end": 1513.12, "text": "we make kids do test runs every single day,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-013", "start": 1513.18, "end": 1515.64, "text": "and that will improve test scores over a short amount of time.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-014", "start": 1515.76, "end": 1516.52, "text": "And we know that to be true.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-015", "start": 1516.86, "end": 1520.3, "text": "In long term, this will create corrosive effects.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-016", "start": 1521.5, "end": 1524.2, "text": "And will stop a child's emotional development.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-017", "start": 1524.26, "end": 1525.38, "text": "And we know that, right.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-018", "start": 1525.46, "end": 1528.86, "text": "So the fear is that if we educators do not participate in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-019", "start": 1528.86, "end": 1531.32, "text": "this process of discussing the power of AI,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-020", "start": 1531.68, "end": 1532.76, "text": "in", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "ca1170051604dfdb7076de7d7418830ed8bd78566948cfbfbd7faa384b4624e2", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0037", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1481s", "time_label": "24:41", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0038", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying about the evidence, teachers are irreplaceable components of education, okay? Teachers, again, we're this community of scholars that support each other, and motivate students to thrive. And you can, technology cannot replace that. So if we had a very serious discussion and examination of the proper role of teacher, then we will come to this conclusion. But unfortunately, right now, the education community is not having a serious discussion about about AI.", "word_count": 108, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-001", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1539.38, "text": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-002", "start": 1539.78, "end": 1544.32, "text": "and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-003", "start": 1544.88, "end": 1546.52, "text": "But if you actually look at the evidence,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-004", "start": 1546.68, "end": 1547.74, "text": "and I keep on saying about the evidence,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-005", "start": 1547.98, "end": 1552.68, "text": "teachers are irreplaceable components of education,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-006", "start": 1553.06, "end": 1559.98, "text": "okay? Teachers, again, we're this community of scholars that support each other,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-007", "start": 1560.1, "end": 1562.36, "text": "and motivate students to thrive.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-008", "start": 1563.28, "end": 1565.9, "text": "And you can, technology cannot replace that.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-009", "start": 1566.4, "end": 1572, "text": "So if we had a very serious discussion and examination of the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-010", "start": 1572, "end": 1574.3, "text": "proper role of teacher, then we will come to this conclusion.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-011", "start": 1574.9, "end": 1581.96, "text": "But unfortunately, right now, the education community is not having a serious", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-012", "start": 1581.96, "end": 1583.72, "text": "discussion about about AI.", "word_count": 4 } ], "text_sha256": "37a909364dd5a7788161f07da9ce04c60e3f4129cfe256e222e8f301fc87056d", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0038", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1532s", "time_label": "25:32", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0039", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "start": 1584.88, "end": 1616.54, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "And so, again, I just push on a little bit, but I think it's a bit more so in in in the West, in particular, I remember there was a BBC report that I read last year, about the use of facial recognition in, in classrooms in China. And, you know, all the issues to do with privacy. And so and so forth, obviously came to the fore, right. And we were aghast in many parts of the world as to this is what like happening in education in China. I mean, what is your comment on that?", "word_count": 98, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-001", "start": 1584.88, "end": 1587.7, "text": "And so, again, I just push on a little bit,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-002", "start": 1587.7, "end": 1589.94, "text": "but I think it's a bit more so in in in the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-003", "start": 1589.94, "end": 1593.34, "text": "West, in particular, I remember there was a BBC report that I", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-004", "start": 1593.34, "end": 1597.16, "text": "read last year, about the use of facial recognition in,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-005", "start": 1597.18, "end": 1600.5, "text": "in classrooms in China.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-006", "start": 1601.1, "end": 1604.1, "text": "And, you know, all the issues to do with privacy.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-007", "start": 1605.52, "end": 1606.84, "text": "And so and so forth,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-008", "start": 1606.88, "end": 1607.92, "text": "obviously came to the fore,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-009", "start": 1608.06, "end": 1611.58, "text": "right. And we were aghast in many parts of the world as", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-010", "start": 1611.58, "end": 1614.32, "text": "to this is what like happening in education in China.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-011", "start": 1614.42, "end": 1616.54, "text": "I mean, what is your comment on that?", "word_count": 8 } ], "text_sha256": "9a9ecfab99c6e58cc8a52a67f745f2d6b77edb3b951ef46079300e29f863a1a7", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0039", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1584s", "time_label": "26:24", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0040", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom, because it looks cool. Because parents are like, yes, let's do this, because we want greater modeling of our students, right? So the example you referred to is a school in Hangzhou, that was using facial recognition technology to track the focus and the concentration levels of students. And you know, if students were, were, you know, falling asleep, then the teachers would come and say, listen, you're falling asleep. And it was really to try to control the behavior of students, which I think is bad. Now, that's a technology worship. The setting process is really like, you know, let's let's think about what we're trying to achieve. Let's collect evidence and ask ourselves, are we trying to achieve this, right?", "word_count": 156, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-001", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1619.46, "text": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-002", "start": 1619.58, "end": 1621.42, "text": "right? There's technology, there's technology worship,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-003", "start": 1621.76, "end": 1623.16, "text": "and then there's some process,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-004", "start": 1623.7, "end": 1625.46, "text": "right? Technology worship is just like,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-005", "start": 1625.46, "end": 1627.92, "text": "we want facial recognition in the classroom,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-006", "start": 1628.02, "end": 1628.94, "text": "because it looks cool.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-007", "start": 1629.1, "end": 1630.58, "text": "Because parents are like, yes,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-008", "start": 1630.68, "end": 1633.88, "text": "let's do this, because we want greater modeling of our students,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-009", "start": 1634.08, "end": 1637.78, "text": "right? So the example you referred to is a school in Hangzhou,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-010", "start": 1637.98, "end": 1642.56, "text": "that was using facial recognition technology to track the focus and the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-011", "start": 1642.56, "end": 1645.08, "text": "concentration levels of students.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-012", "start": 1645.26, "end": 1646.28, "text": "And you know, if students were,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-013", "start": 1646.28, "end": 1647.42, "text": "were, you know, falling asleep,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-014", "start": 1647.72, "end": 1648.8, "text": "then the teachers would come and say,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-015", "start": 1648.84, "end": 1649.52, "text": "listen, you're falling asleep.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-016", "start": 1650.16, "end": 1655.74, "text": "And it was really to try to control the behavior of students,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-017", "start": 1655.9, "end": 1656.6, "text": "which I think is bad.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-018", "start": 1657.04, "end": 1658.48, "text": "Now, that's a technology worship.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-019", "start": 1658.84, "end": 1660.76, "text": "The setting process is really like,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-020", "start": 1660.84, "end": 1662.66, "text": "you know, let's let's think about what we're trying to achieve.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-021", "start": 1663.18, "end": 1664.88, "text": "Let's collect evidence and ask ourselves,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-022", "start": 1665.1, "end": 1666.26, "text": "are we trying to achieve this,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-023", "start": 1666.34, "end": 1666.724, "text": "right?", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "bc27dfa9929b0e098b532ad48f43e441e2f4cddd955c6c3889731b46fd43f0c5", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0040", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1617s", "time_label": "26:57", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0041", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in the classroom, engagement levels, because that those this will lead to higher test scores, right? That's a hypothesis. Okay. And then you're like, okay, well, how do you increase motivation levels? Do you have more cameras in the classroom? Do you record what happens in the classroom? Or do you have a teacher be more engaging? Do you have a teacher prepare more interesting material? Right? So if you actually use a systemic process and combining technology, you get different conclusions. But because in China, unfortunately, we have a worship of edtech, without using some process to evaluate the effectiveness of edtech, we come to these silly scenarios where facial recognition technology is used in the classroom to monitor students rather than track engagement levels in the classroom.", "word_count": 165, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-001", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1671.34, "text": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one,", "word_count": 13 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-002", "start": 1671.56, "end": 1673.54, "text": "you, you say to yourself,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-003", "start": 1673.64, "end": 1677.73, "text": "listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-004", "start": 1677.73, "end": 1678.09, "text": "right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in the classroom,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-005", "start": 1678.11, "end": 1680.53, "text": "engagement levels, because that those this will lead to higher test scores,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-006", "start": 1680.67, "end": 1681.61, "text": "right? That's a hypothesis.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-007", "start": 1681.81, "end": 1685.17, "text": "Okay. And then you're like,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-008", "start": 1685.25, "end": 1687.91, "text": "okay, well, how do you increase motivation levels?", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-009", "start": 1687.95, "end": 1691.15, "text": "Do you have more cameras in the classroom?", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-010", "start": 1691.67, "end": 1693.67, "text": "Do you record what happens in the classroom?", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-011", "start": 1693.79, "end": 1696.31, "text": "Or do you have a teacher be more engaging?", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-012", "start": 1696.51, "end": 1699.43, "text": "Do you have a teacher prepare more interesting material?", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-013", "start": 1700.07, "end": 1704.87, "text": "Right? So if you actually use a systemic process and combining technology,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-014", "start": 1705.27, "end": 1706.61, "text": "you get different conclusions.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-015", "start": 1706.85, "end": 1708.75, "text": "But because in China, unfortunately,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-016", "start": 1708.85, "end": 1710.31, "text": "we have a worship of edtech,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-017", "start": 1710.47, "end": 1716.23, "text": "without using some process to evaluate the effectiveness of edtech,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-018", "start": 1716.47, "end": 1722.11, "text": "we come to these silly scenarios where facial recognition technology is used", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-019", "start": 1722.11, "end": 1726.75, "text": "in the classroom to monitor students rather than track engagement levels in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-020", "start": 1726.75, "end": 1726.79, "text": "the", "word_count": 1 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-021", "start": 1726.79, "end": 1727.13, "text": "classroom.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "d22ef114ffe276e3d43c0f24bd9a73fd483b7765b6077abd395dbd05b8164920", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0041", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1666s", "time_label": "27:46", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0042", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0042", "start": 1726.79, "end": 1727.13, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "", "word_count": 0, "timed_chunks": [], "text_sha256": "e3b0c44298fc1c149afbf4c8996fb92427ae41e4649b934ca495991b7852b855", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0042", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1726s", "time_label": "28:46", "tags": [ "unclear" ] }, { "id": "seg-0043", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0043", "start": 1728.2, "end": 1749.76, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "And so, Jiang, I want to move on to a set of questions to do with COVID and, and the closure of schools. And, you know, we know a lot about how, you know, entire school systems have come to a close, and are grappling with, with, with the pandemic. Tell me what happened in China with regards to schooling and education.", "word_count": 62, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-001", "start": 1728.2, "end": 1731.24, "text": "And so, Jiang, I want to move on to a set of", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-002", "start": 1731.24, "end": 1733.58, "text": "questions to do with COVID and,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-003", "start": 1733.72, "end": 1735.38, "text": "and the closure of schools.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-004", "start": 1735.84, "end": 1738.46, "text": "And, you know, we know a lot about how,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-005", "start": 1738.46, "end": 1741.56, "text": "you know, entire school systems have come to a close,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-006", "start": 1741.76, "end": 1744.34, "text": "and are grappling with, with,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-007", "start": 1744.46, "end": 1745.34, "text": "with the pandemic.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-008", "start": 1745.86, "end": 1749.76, "text": "Tell me what happened in China with regards to schooling and education.", "word_count": 12 } ], "text_sha256": "f3159f8ed120ea25a3fa5de3dde8cca4bac7607315b0140c5b13f8bbecfd69a6", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0043", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1728s", "time_label": "28:48", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0044", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issues for students who have been, who've been stuck at home. You know, teenagers have killed themselves. It's like, you know, it's been pretty bad. We have had mental health issues here in China, but it's been contained. And a lot of it is that parents are engaged in the education process, right? So when kids were at home, they weren't doing homework by themselves. The mother, the father were there as well, helping the kids do the homework. It was this family that really supported, scaffolded the kids during this crisis. But, you know, I mean, again, if you just left kids alone, in front of a computer, then you would have a lot of issues. But of course, unfortunately,", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-001", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1754.75, "text": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-002", "start": 1754.75, "end": 1757.73, "text": "than the other school systems.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-003", "start": 1758.05, "end": 1762.95, "text": "And the impact wasn't as bad for students,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-004", "start": 1763.03, "end": 1764.59, "text": "right? So I know that in the West,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-005", "start": 1764.75, "end": 1770.59, "text": "there have been several mental health issues for students who have been,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-006", "start": 1770.73, "end": 1773.17, "text": "who've been stuck at home.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-007", "start": 1773.87, "end": 1775.67, "text": "You know, teenagers have killed themselves.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-008", "start": 1775.93, "end": 1778.17, "text": "It's like, you know, it's been pretty bad.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-009", "start": 1778.85, "end": 1781.85, "text": "We have had mental health issues here in China,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-010", "start": 1781.93, "end": 1782.89, "text": "but it's been contained.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-011", "start": 1783.21, "end": 1787.35, "text": "And a lot of it is that parents are engaged in the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-012", "start": 1787.35, "end": 1788.97, "text": "education process, right?", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-013", "start": 1789.09, "end": 1790.69, "text": "So when kids were at home,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-014", "start": 1790.91, "end": 1792.11, "text": "they weren't doing homework by themselves.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-015", "start": 1792.39, "end": 1795.79, "text": "The mother, the father were there as well,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-016", "start": 1795.95, "end": 1800.19, "text": "helping the kids do the homework.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-017", "start": 1800.35, "end": 1802.99, "text": "It was this family that really supported,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-018", "start": 1803.17, "end": 1806.03, "text": "scaffolded the kids during this crisis.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-019", "start": 1806.95, "end": 1808.13, "text": "But, you know, I mean,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-020", "start": 1808.19, "end": 1810.01, "text": "again, if you just left kids alone,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-021", "start": 1810.19, "end": 1811.25, "text": "in front of a computer,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-022", "start": 1811.39, "end": 1812.81, "text": "then you would have a lot of issues.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-023", "start": 1813.17, "end": 1814.09, "text": "But of course, unfortunately,", "word_count": 4 } ], "text_sha256": "8ae42219a76f088e1a337d775e76d6e9e4e11b53bfb27ef1a38fb900fcf39fa5", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0044", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1750s", "time_label": "29:10", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0045", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "start": 1814.45, "end": 1819.33, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "because of the family engagement in China, we didn't have a lot of these mental health issues.", "word_count": 17, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0045-chunk-001", "start": 1814.45, "end": 1817.41, "text": "because of the family engagement in China,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0045-chunk-002", "start": 1817.55, "end": 1819.33, "text": "we didn't have a lot of these mental health issues.", "word_count": 10 } ], "text_sha256": "ab1c58c8df175447eab2a7080867dac75ce11d7c56606cd5e081df77c4acc77f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0045", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1814s", "time_label": "30:14", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0046", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0046", "start": 1819.95, "end": 1822.61, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "And so how long were schools closed?", "word_count": 7, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0046-chunk-001", "start": 1819.95, "end": 1822.61, "text": "And so how long were schools closed?", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "04f66ec8f8fe928dc7f0c3d84043bce035ce341ab0fa2db294ac311118c90380", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0046", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1819s", "time_label": "30:19", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0047", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earlier. We might delay the opening of schools in the spring semester. But again, family engagement. And also, you know, a lot of the kids learn material outside the classroom, they go to cram schools. So, so I think people here aren't as worried about school closures as they would be in the West.", "word_count": 94, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-001", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1825.89, "text": "They were closed for a good two to three months.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-002", "start": 1826.47, "end": 1827.55, "text": "But now they're back.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-003", "start": 1828.35, "end": 1829.59, "text": "We're back in session.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-004", "start": 1829.81, "end": 1833.51, "text": "Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-005", "start": 1834.03, "end": 1839.25, "text": "And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-006", "start": 1839.35, "end": 1841.07, "text": "So they closed earlier.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-007", "start": 1841.95, "end": 1848.33, "text": "We might delay the opening of schools in the spring semester.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-008", "start": 1848.99, "end": 1851.83, "text": "But again, family engagement.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-009", "start": 1852.11, "end": 1855.79, "text": "And also, you know, a lot of the kids learn material outside", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-010", "start": 1855.79, "end": 1858.63, "text": "the classroom, they go to cram schools.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-011", "start": 1858.99, "end": 1864.35, "text": "So, so I think people here aren't as worried about school closures", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-012", "start": 1864.35, "end": 1865.57, "text": "as they would be in the West.", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "c73bd1d5797d3bea4ec415a31197e2dd73c507770b7d6d4b47e7efd680965beb", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0047", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1824s", "time_label": "30:24", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0048", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "start": 1866.01, "end": 1879.79, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "And, Jiang, in terms of like, you know, we worry a lot about learning loss and catch up in your learning. And so how will how will they be approaching that in China?", "word_count": 33, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-001", "start": 1866.01, "end": 1868.73, "text": "And, Jiang, in terms of like,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-002", "start": 1868.87, "end": 1874.27, "text": "you know, we worry a lot about learning loss and catch up", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-003", "start": 1874.27, "end": 1875.19, "text": "in your learning.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-004", "start": 1875.33, "end": 1879.79, "text": "And so how will how will they be approaching that in China?", "word_count": 12 } ], "text_sha256": "e66bfcda155e8694afd5e468d8abe4fac089ca75f5fcc0c9fe36f386492e264f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0048", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1866s", "time_label": "31:06", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0049", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as well. So I'll give you an example of this where last year, because of COVID -19, because of school closures, the government announced that the college entrance examination, what we refer to refer to as a gaokao, would be delayed by one month. And this has never happened before in the past 30 years. I mean, China has been through many crisis, there was a major earthquake in China in 2008. Yeah. And they still have the gaokao. So the gaokao, it's a major event, it's a major cultural and social and economic event. And they delayed by one month. And the reason why was that students were reporting that they were less motivated to study in at home than in the classroom, they were less focused, they were less motivated.", "word_count": 170, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-001", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1882.56, "text": "Yeah, that's a good question.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-002", "start": 1882.74, "end": 1887.38, "text": "Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-003", "start": 1887.44, "end": 1890.34, "text": "what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-004", "start": 1890.34, "end": 1893, "text": "scaffolds the learning, right.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-005", "start": 1893.12, "end": 1894.6, "text": "And this is true in China as well.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-006", "start": 1894.72, "end": 1897.06, "text": "So I'll give you an example of this where last year,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-007", "start": 1897.16, "end": 1900.82, "text": "because of COVID -19, because of school closures,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-008", "start": 1900.86, "end": 1904.62, "text": "the government announced that the college entrance examination,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-009", "start": 1905.06, "end": 1906.74, "text": "what we refer to refer to as a gaokao,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-010", "start": 1906.86, "end": 1908.74, "text": "would be delayed by one month.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-011", "start": 1908.82, "end": 1911.38, "text": "And this has never happened before in the past 30 years.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-012", "start": 1911.6, "end": 1913.5, "text": "I mean, China has been through many crisis,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-013", "start": 1913.62, "end": 1915.5, "text": "there was a major earthquake in China in 2008.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-014", "start": 1915.86, "end": 1917.6, "text": "Yeah. And they still have the gaokao.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-015", "start": 1917.92, "end": 1920.3, "text": "So the gaokao, it's a major event,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-016", "start": 1920.56, "end": 1923.92, "text": "it's a major cultural and social and economic event.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-017", "start": 1924.22, "end": 1925.62, "text": "And they delayed by one month.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-018", "start": 1925.82, "end": 1931.42, "text": "And the reason why was that students were reporting that they were", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-019", "start": 1931.42, "end": 1936.36, "text": "less motivated to study in at home than in", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-020", "start": 1936.36, "end": 1938.1, "text": "the classroom, they were less focused,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-021", "start": 1938.2, "end": 1939.22, "text": "they were less motivated.", "word_count": 4 } ], "text_sha256": "ce0f9cbd63f840d3619804f6a8107527903c165133ca0e61c09eb6991b049e24", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0049", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1880s", "time_label": "31:20", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0050", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050", "start": 1940.3, "end": 1951.6, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "So that sort of classroom setting, where you're surrounded by peers, and you have a similar goal, you have a teacher, you have a mentor, motivating you on, encouraging you emotionally, I mean, it is vital to the learning process.", "word_count": 40, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-001", "start": 1940.3, "end": 1942.12, "text": "So that sort of classroom setting,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-002", "start": 1942.28, "end": 1943.8, "text": "where you're surrounded by peers,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-003", "start": 1943.94, "end": 1944.94, "text": "and you have a similar goal,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-004", "start": 1945.06, "end": 1946.2, "text": "you have a teacher, you have a mentor,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-005", "start": 1946.2, "end": 1948.68, "text": "motivating you on, encouraging you emotionally,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-006", "start": 1948.96, "end": 1951.6, "text": "I mean, it is vital to the learning process.", "word_count": 9 } ], "text_sha256": "cc80bbea61d4965f5204a55c3d34e99dac482c429d652ad5d4feb761ae0e12f3", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0050", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1940s", "time_label": "32:20", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0051", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0051", "start": 1952.71, "end": 1976.03, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Thank you for that, Jiang. And my last question, I suppose I want to ask you, and thank you so much for the time that you spent with us today, is, what do you think the three lessons the world can learn from education in China are? Education in China or education technology in China? Education in China, and you may include education technology, but just generally, what is it that you think we can learn from you?", "word_count": 78, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-001", "start": 1952.71, "end": 1954.03, "text": "Thank you for that, Jiang.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-002", "start": 1954.13, "end": 1956.51, "text": "And my last question, I suppose I want to ask you,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-003", "start": 1956.55, "end": 1958.47, "text": "and thank you so much for the time that you spent with", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-004", "start": 1958.47, "end": 1962.27, "text": "us today, is, what do you think the three lessons the world", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-005", "start": 1962.27, "end": 1963.85, "text": "can learn from education in China are?", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-006", "start": 1965.45, "end": 1968.53, "text": "Education in China or education technology in China?", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-007", "start": 1969.23, "end": 1972.31, "text": "Education in China, and you may include education technology,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-008", "start": 1972.53, "end": 1975.55, "text": "but just generally, what is it that you think we can learn", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0051-chunk-009", "start": 1975.55, "end": 1976.03, "text": "from you?", "word_count": 2 } ], "text_sha256": "cf83362ad9e56d93987a695f8ae3b07fb6c85f9428ab4a83bdfc74a3e0f0dbd0", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0051", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1952s", "time_label": "32:32", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0052", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It means providing them with support, right? So mentorship, professional development, and community, right? So make, make sure teachers feel that they're contributing to community in a positive way. So teacher investment, I think is key. That's lesson one. Lesson two is, be really clear about what you're trying to achieve in education. I think that what separates China from other contexts is Chinese parents, Chinese teachers are very clear about what they're trying to achieve in education. Now, it's, it's more test scores, it's higher test scores. And I think that's a bad thing. But I think having alignment, engagement, having parents involved in the process is, I think, key to a better learning outcomes. And the third, and I think most important lesson is to focus on equity issues.", "word_count": 170, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-001", "start": 1977.03, "end": 1980.13, "text": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-002", "start": 1980.19, "end": 1982.05, "text": "right? And that doesn't mean,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-003", "start": 1982.21, "end": 1983.71, "text": "give them more money.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-004", "start": 1984.47, "end": 1985.87, "text": "We have no, we have,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-005", "start": 1985.91, "end": 1989.85, "text": "we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-006", "start": 1989.85, "end": 1990.59, "text": "make them more motivated.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-007", "start": 1990.99, "end": 1994.59, "text": "It means providing them with support,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-008", "start": 1994.87, "end": 1997.97, "text": "right? So mentorship, professional development,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-009", "start": 1998.15, "end": 2000.87, "text": "and community, right?", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-010", "start": 2001.03, "end": 2005.55, "text": "So make, make sure teachers feel that they're contributing to community in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-011", "start": 2005.55, "end": 2006.11, "text": "a positive way.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-012", "start": 2006.23, "end": 2008.19, "text": "So teacher investment, I think is key.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-013", "start": 2008.83, "end": 2010.07, "text": "That's lesson one.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-014", "start": 2011.74, "end": 2016.48, "text": "Lesson two is, be really clear about what you're trying to achieve", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-015", "start": 2016.48, "end": 2017.28, "text": "in education.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-016", "start": 2017.84, "end": 2023.58, "text": "I think that what separates China from other contexts is Chinese parents,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-017", "start": 2023.82, "end": 2028.16, "text": "Chinese teachers are very clear about what they're trying to achieve in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-018", "start": 2028.16, "end": 2030.8, "text": "education. Now, it's, it's more test scores,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-019", "start": 2030.98, "end": 2031.84, "text": "it's higher test scores.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-020", "start": 2031.94, "end": 2032.9, "text": "And I think that's a bad thing.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-021", "start": 2033.02, "end": 2035.28, "text": "But I think having alignment,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-022", "start": 2037.7, "end": 2040.82, "text": "engagement, having parents involved in the process is,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-023", "start": 2040.84, "end": 2045.2, "text": "I think, key to a better learning outcomes.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-024", "start": 2045.98, "end": 2047.22, "text": "And the third, and I", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0052-chunk-025", "start": 2047.22, "end": 2050.32, "text": "think most important lesson is to focus on equity issues.", "word_count": 10 } ], "text_sha256": "76556b89badef185ee6ecea8a4fbf626829bd2a37fe4079f80b21be1b26721d6", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0052", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=1977s", "time_label": "32:57", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0053", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by themselves, they're interestingly motivated. And so what we're finding is that, you know, if you invest in family support, as a society, you have better outcomes. When you invest in the most marginalized communities, and the most marginalized children, it's just a better investment. And also, what happens if you do create equity is that your school system becomes more vibrant, and more creative. How do you make good teachers into great teachers, what you do is you send them into the most marginalized communities and force them to rethink pedagogy. So if you're teaching really good students, it's really easy to become complacent about your teaching.", "word_count": 150, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-001", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2052.96, "text": "You know, from 1949 to 1999,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-002", "start": 2053.54, "end": 2054.66, "text": "China did that very well.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-003", "start": 2054.76, "end": 2055.6, "text": "It does it less well now,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-004", "start": 2055.72, "end": 2056.68, "text": "but it's still a major focus.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-005", "start": 2057.04, "end": 2060.02, "text": "And so what we're finding in education is that,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-006", "start": 2060.08, "end": 2062.96, "text": "you know, these rich kids,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-007", "start": 2063.14, "end": 2065.36, "text": "smart kids, they do well by themselves,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-008", "start": 2065.48, "end": 2066.18, "text": "they're interestingly motivated.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-009", "start": 2068, "end": 2068.26, "text": "And so what we're finding is that,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-010", "start": 2068.26, "end": 2068.54, "text": "you know, if you invest in family support,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-011", "start": 2068.84, "end": 2071.26, "text": "as a society, you have better outcomes.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-012", "start": 2071.74, "end": 2074.48, "text": "When you invest in the most marginalized communities,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-013", "start": 2074.56, "end": 2076.08, "text": "and the most marginalized children,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-014", "start": 2076.32, "end": 2077.86, "text": "it's just a better investment.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-015", "start": 2078.56, "end": 2083.06, "text": "And also, what happens if you do create equity is that your", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-016", "start": 2083.06, "end": 2084.66, "text": "school system becomes more vibrant,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-017", "start": 2084.8, "end": 2086.06, "text": "and more creative.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-018", "start": 2086.28, "end": 2089.48, "text": "How do you make good teachers into great teachers,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-019", "start": 2089.62, "end": 2092.22, "text": "what you do is you send them into the most marginalized communities", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-020", "start": 2092.22, "end": 2095.7, "text": "and force them to rethink pedagogy.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-021", "start": 2098, "end": 2098.98, "text": "So if you're teaching really good students,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0053-chunk-022", "start": 2099.04, "end": 2102.52, "text": "it's really easy to become complacent about your teaching.", "word_count": 9 } ], "text_sha256": "1c717de39fb16a26acb984d6049dd12c93fee254e1dfa1ddb17bc8ce256689c3", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0053", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2051s", "time_label": "34:11", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0054", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054", "start": 2102.7, "end": 2144.52, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Because what if you say that the good students will automatically understand or the good students will be self motivated to learn material on their own. But if you're a good teacher, you go into a more impoverished community, where students are less motivated, and they have less, less learning strategies. And that forces you as teacher to think more deeply about what works and what doesn't work in a classroom. So I would say, these are the three lessons, right? Invest in teachers, make sure your teachers are happy and highly motivated. Second big lesson is, make sure the entire community is engaged. Parents, teachers are aligned on goals. And third is, focus on the most marginalized communities in your, in your system.", "word_count": 124, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-001", "start": 2102.7, "end": 2105.92, "text": "Because what if you say that the good students will automatically understand", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-002", "start": 2105.92, "end": 2109.04, "text": "or the good students will be self motivated to learn material on", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-003", "start": 2109.04, "end": 2109.4, "text": "their own.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-004", "start": 2109.76, "end": 2110.8, "text": "But if you're a good teacher,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-005", "start": 2110.9, "end": 2112.64, "text": "you go into a more impoverished community,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-006", "start": 2112.9, "end": 2115.26, "text": "where students are less motivated,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-007", "start": 2115.44, "end": 2118.68, "text": "and they have less, less learning strategies.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-008", "start": 2118.9, "end": 2122.84, "text": "And that forces you as teacher to think more deeply about what", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-009", "start": 2122.84, "end": 2124.66, "text": "works and what doesn't work in a classroom.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-010", "start": 2124.92, "end": 2128.08, "text": "So I would say, these are the three lessons,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-011", "start": 2128.08, "end": 2132.46, "text": "right? Invest in teachers, make sure your teachers are happy and highly", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-012", "start": 2132.46, "end": 2134, "text": "motivated. Second big lesson is,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-013", "start": 2134.12, "end": 2136.2, "text": "make sure the entire community is engaged.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-014", "start": 2136.7, "end": 2138.7, "text": "Parents, teachers are aligned on goals.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-015", "start": 2139.02, "end": 2143.68, "text": "And third is, focus on the most marginalized communities in your,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0054-chunk-016", "start": 2143.72, "end": 2144.52, "text": "in your system.", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "2bd586395689e0e9e78f3cf46119c49b44567c5f2721e0035f8e6eb89f6a6e56", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0054", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2102s", "time_label": "35:02", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0055", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0055", "start": 2145.61, "end": 2161.39, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "And so there's a question that's come up from Gail Brown, which I've flashed onto the screen over here. It says, professional learning and professional learning communities are already commonplace. Do you think this learning beyond the classroom will support students in China to make better inferences and problem solve?", "word_count": 50, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0055-chunk-001", "start": 2145.61, "end": 2148.73, "text": "And so there's a question that's come up from Gail Brown,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0055-chunk-002", "start": 2148.95, "end": 2150.65, "text": "which I've flashed onto the screen over here.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0055-chunk-003", "start": 2150.81, "end": 2155.35, "text": "It says, professional learning and professional learning communities are already commonplace.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0055-chunk-004", "start": 2155.65, "end": 2158.73, "text": "Do you think this learning beyond the classroom will support students in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0055-chunk-005", "start": 2158.73, "end": 2161.39, "text": "China to make better inferences and problem solve?", "word_count": 8 } ], "text_sha256": "4728ef741316f8f4a6e47e935005aa35a3ef9c978a9c925174624fa89eee4c47", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0055", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2145s", "time_label": "35:45", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0056", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involved in the process, which provides a greater feedback loop. And I think that learning outside the classroom is key. I think that the world should be the classroom. I don't understand why schools are siloed off. And I think this is a major issue we face in China, where schools are too focused on tests, and they're translated from the critical community and from global issues.", "word_count": 100, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-001", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2165.28, "text": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-002", "start": 2165.46, "end": 2168, "text": "But I think it's done differently in,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-003", "start": 2168, "end": 2169.16, "text": "in China.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-004", "start": 2169.58, "end": 2174.6, "text": "And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-005", "start": 2174.6, "end": 2179.52, "text": "learning. So principals, parents, they're all involved in the process,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-006", "start": 2179.64, "end": 2181.38, "text": "which provides a greater feedback loop.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-007", "start": 2183.42, "end": 2188.96, "text": "And I think that learning outside the classroom is key.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-008", "start": 2189.14, "end": 2191.44, "text": "I think that the world should be the classroom.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-009", "start": 2191.7, "end": 2194.12, "text": "I don't understand why schools are siloed off.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-010", "start": 2194.38, "end": 2197, "text": "And I think this is a major issue we face in China,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-011", "start": 2197.1, "end": 2199.94, "text": "where schools are too focused on tests,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0056-chunk-012", "start": 2200.12, "end": 2203.72, "text": "and they're translated from the critical community and from global issues.", "word_count": 11 } ], "text_sha256": "12998f86a83120cb6d4cdde93fcd296574be6863cb74c9742f7013fe03bc83a7", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0056", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2162s", "time_label": "36:02", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0057", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057", "start": 2205.35, "end": 2228.73, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Great. You know, there's also a comment from a gentleman called Kevin from, I assume, India. He said, I'm sure it's really tempting to use cool tech as facial recognition for the sake of it. But indeed, being clear on the educational outcome first is important, because there might be a low tech way to solve it, right? For example, a breakout session. I think you also thought that.", "word_count": 69, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0057-chunk-001", "start": 2205.35, "end": 2210.17, "text": "Great. You know, there's also a comment from a gentleman called Kevin", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0057-chunk-002", "start": 2210.17, "end": 2211.71, "text": "from, I assume, India.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0057-chunk-003", "start": 2211.87, "end": 2215.49, "text": "He said, I'm sure it's really tempting to use cool tech as", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0057-chunk-004", "start": 2215.49, "end": 2218.19, "text": "facial recognition for the sake of it.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0057-chunk-005", "start": 2218.25, "end": 2221.87, "text": "But indeed, being clear on the educational outcome first is important,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0057-chunk-006", "start": 2222.09, "end": 2224.83, "text": "because there might be a low tech way to solve it,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0057-chunk-007", "start": 2224.91, "end": 2227.07, "text": "right? For example, a breakout session.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0057-chunk-008", "start": 2227.27, "end": 2228.73, "text": "I think you also thought that.", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "dd80d6d5715d52b16b95cc70edf909ccd3cac3beea8d8af8d1155545a63ec917", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0057", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2205s", "time_label": "36:45", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0058", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really cool to use facial recognition technology. But if you actually use the same process to think about education, what you what you realize is you actually don't need technology to solve most problems. If you, if you care, if all you care about is engagement, you don't have to spend any money to solve this problem.", "word_count": 99, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-001", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2229.95, "text": "Yeah, I know.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-002", "start": 2230.05, "end": 2230.21, "text": "I know.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-003", "start": 2230.25, "end": 2231.95, "text": "He I mean, like, it's,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-004", "start": 2231.95, "end": 2233.51, "text": "he said it so, so well.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-005", "start": 2233.75, "end": 2235.85, "text": "But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-006", "start": 2235.85, "end": 2237.79, "text": "on technology, where you focus on the same process,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-007", "start": 2238.29, "end": 2242.13, "text": "right? Because technology, yeah, it's really cool to use facial recognition technology.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-008", "start": 2242.37, "end": 2245.43, "text": "But if you actually use the same process to think about education,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-009", "start": 2245.81, "end": 2248.59, "text": "what you what you realize is you actually don't need technology to", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-010", "start": 2248.59, "end": 2249.57, "text": "solve most problems.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-011", "start": 2250.89, "end": 2252.37, "text": "If you, if you care,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-012", "start": 2252.39, "end": 2253.53, "text": "if all you care about is engagement,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0058-chunk-013", "start": 2254.05, "end": 2257.99, "text": "you don't have to spend any money to solve this problem.", "word_count": 11 } ], "text_sha256": "9c2eba22ddd2db76d0c43c5199cfe422bc88ed6f15c7eafd76c45c7ad676300f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0058", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2229s", "time_label": "37:09", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0059", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0059", "start": 2259.92, "end": 2288.04, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Jiang, I owe you a huge thanks for for today's interview. I know I have learned a lot, as always, in our conversations. And I look forward to having you back at a future opportunity to discuss these various subjects in the developments of education in China. But for now, please, please take from the TV, T4 TV live community that we have learned a lot. And we look forward to your continued engagement. Thank you so much.", "word_count": 78, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-001", "start": 2259.92, "end": 2264.64, "text": "Jiang, I owe you a huge thanks for for today's interview.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-002", "start": 2264.96, "end": 2266.52, "text": "I know I have learned a lot,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-003", "start": 2266.54, "end": 2268.12, "text": "as always, in our conversations.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-004", "start": 2268.62, "end": 2272.46, "text": "And I look forward to having you back at a future opportunity", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-005", "start": 2272.46, "end": 2276.8, "text": "to discuss these various subjects in the developments of education in China.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-006", "start": 2277.18, "end": 2280.36, "text": "But for now, please, please take from the TV,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-007", "start": 2280.9, "end": 2285.4, "text": "T4 TV live community that we have learned a lot.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-008", "start": 2285.48, "end": 2287.06, "text": "And we look forward to your continued engagement.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0059-chunk-009", "start": 2287.18, "end": 2288.04, "text": "Thank you so much.", "word_count": 4 } ], "text_sha256": "d8150c026e42fda7086f11ba4a8b460e258af372d0edfeb225fb11955aa86f2a", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0059", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2259s", "time_label": "37:39", "tags": [ "exchange" ] }, { "id": "seg-0060", "source_ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0060", "start": 2288.04, "end": 2293.12, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "It's been a pleasure. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Vikas. Bye bye. Bye bye.", "word_count": 18, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0060-chunk-001", "start": 2288.04, "end": 2288.48, "text": "It's been a pleasure.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0060-chunk-002", "start": 2289.06, "end": 2290.18, "text": "It's been a real pleasure.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0060-chunk-003", "start": 2290.26, "end": 2290.56, "text": "Thank you.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0060-chunk-004", "start": 2290.56, "end": 2291.1, "text": "Thank you, Vikas.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0060-chunk-005", "start": 2291.56, "end": 2292.06, "text": "Bye bye.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0060-chunk-006", "start": 2292.64, "end": 2293.12, "text": "Bye bye.", "word_count": 2 } ], "text_sha256": "c44b974866101e3ae5d50675936d7a2b26a23c6b8dcce5e2ca9502ad14cbd981", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-wvm3oqdviwy/transcript/#seg-0060", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY&t=2288s", "time_label": "38:08", "tags": [ "exchange" ] } ], "interactions": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host introduces Jiang as a longtime guide to Chinese education and asks for a high-level map of the education sector before the discussion turns to edtech.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "segment_id": "seg-0001", "start": 2.06, "end": 55.34, "time_label": "0:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "hi everyone uh my name is vikas uh welcome to a very early and special edition of t4 tv uh today you know i i'm glad that a friend of mine has agreed to participate his name is uh jung jung is uh welcome welcome to this..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "segment_id": "seg-0002", "start": 55.34, "end": 105.92, "time_label": "0:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "were a teacher um you know instantaneously and you'll see how much you have learned from this and everything emanates from that and so i wanted to use this opportunity just to speak to you about uh about exactly that ri..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 105.92, "end": 119.92, "time_label": "1:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "if you could give us the contours of the education sector in China, you know, how big is it? How many schools? How many teachers? And just give us some interesting nuggets so that everyone can understand the diversity o..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang describes the scale and pressure of the Chinese school system and explains why China became a huge edtech market through educational scarcity, test-score focus, and WeChat infrastructure.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0007" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks for the main Chinese edtech success stories, explicitly contrasting them with underreported failures.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "segment_id": "seg-0007", "start": 266.67, "end": 309.49, "time_label": "4:26", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so, Jiang, you talk about so many schools and because of the high pressure kind of environment that you have and the expectations that are quite high when it comes to children's education in China, you say what you..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang names parental engagement and rural teacher mentoring as daily success cases enabled by WeChat-based feedback loops.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 310.03, "end": 365.522, "time_label": "5:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. Thanks. So I would say there are three major successes we see every day in China. The first in terms of parental engagement. So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst themselves..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang finishes the earlier success list by praising online test-prep and remote tutoring for smaller cities.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "segment_id": "seg-0009", "start": 365.522, "end": 406.51, "time_label": "6:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And this is a way to scaffold rapid teaching improvement in poor areas. And the third area of success, and this is really a major area of success is in test preparation. So that students in smaller cities are able to ac..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0010" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks for the major Chinese edtech companies and what they actually do.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 407.35, "end": 439.01, "time_label": "6:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "So there's a, in this part of the world, it needs to be a little bit different. There's a lot of companies in the Middle East, you know, there's a swathe of companies in the EdTech sector that do fantastically well. So..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang gives VIPKid and Squirrel AI as flagship Chinese edtech businesses, one for English tutoring and one for adaptive test preparation.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0012" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host pivots to the failures of edtech and asks Jiang to explain why he is skeptical of classroom technology.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "segment_id": "seg-0012", "start": 497.79, "end": 526.11, "time_label": "8:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And when we talk about the flip side of the coin, you know, what are the two big EdTech success stories here so far? Well, one of the things that as a result of through the use of EdTech, we've now realized are some of..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says edtech fails on motivation, equity, and creativity, and that it amplifies the condition of the school rather than healing it.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 639.47, "end": 649.67, "time_label": "10:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "has taught us in China is the importance of providing emotional support to students on focusing on their well -being and making sure that the part of others has what they call many bird's eye view of their own learning" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host presses on whether a caring learning community is really plausible inside a system associated with relentless test preparation.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 649.67, "end": 669.16, "time_label": "10:49", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "loving and supportive community I mean but is that a common thing I mean from what our perception of Chinese education is and what you said earlier was this incessant focus on test prep and test score right right that l..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang answers the caring-community challenge by arguing that well-being and community support raise test scores more effectively than more technology.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0019" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks whether China's impressive PISA reputation really reflects the whole education system.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0019", "segment_id": "seg-0019", "start": 775.8, "end": 811.6, "time_label": "12:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "community support that leads to higher test scores i mean so jen i know that you and i have this discussion but but i want to just ask you this question because i think the viewers and the audience for this live stream..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says PISA captures only wealthy provinces and then tells a historical story about literacy, equity, rural optimism, and transformed classrooms to explain the deeper Chinese success.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "segment_id": "seg-0022", "start": 924.9, "end": 977.27, "time_label": "15:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "tell you a story um that highlights this um i used to go to high school as you know tony university high school one of the best high schools in china my boss there one in june he actually grew up in the countryside duri..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0024" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host pivots to the social status of teachers in China and who now becomes a teacher.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "segment_id": "seg-0024", "start": 999.33, "end": 1037.05, "time_label": "16:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "professors so I remember a few years ago Jiang was that you know we used to look at the status of teachers in my last role that I had and you know we published a few reports around the status of teachers can you tell us..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0027" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang explains how the status of teachers changed over decades, contrasting the socialist period with the market era while still describing teaching as highly respected.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 1162.36, "end": 1169.02, "time_label": "19:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "go train them they're open to new ideas and and so that that's what's that" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0028" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks whether China faces the same teacher recruitment and retention crisis common elsewhere.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0028", "segment_id": "seg-0028", "start": 1169.14, "end": 1185.26, "time_label": "19:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "that's one extreme I'm so gratifying and so you know most parts of the world Jiang have a have a teacher recruitment and retention crisis does the same apply to China so that's a great question I believe China has done" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says retention is relatively strong because Chinese teachers are mentored, trained, and developed in community.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1185.26, "end": 1239.86, "time_label": "19:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "an amazing job in terms of teacher retention rates so why is that China has a great system of teacher training right so you come into the system you have mentors every week you have one day of professional development a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0030" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks Jiang to explain his idea of a third education revolution.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "segment_id": "seg-0030", "start": 1239.86, "end": 1259.74, "time_label": "20:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "community and they feel a lot better about themselves so jiang i know that you also uh have some thoughts on what is called the third education revolution can you paint out what you think that is yeah the reason i say t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang sketches three education revolutions and says the next one requires turning education from an art into a science, potentially with AI.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "time_label": "20:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brough..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0033" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host voices skepticism that AI-driven data collection can transform education without provoking backlash.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "segment_id": "seg-0033", "start": 1351.58, "end": 1391.5, "time_label": "22:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "you'll understand my skepticism jung when i say to you that you know your your your your pitch that ai can transform education because of the collation of data and then the processing of data will will draw rancor aroun..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang responds that educators carry many untested slogans and assumptions, and that AI can supply data that forces those assumptions to face evidence.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "segment_id": "seg-0034", "start": 1391.5, "end": 1453.857, "time_label": "23:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "um core essence of what you're doing at this time of day but you have to have a lot of assumptions assumptions. And we have a lot of beliefs. And we don't actually question these assumptions and beliefs. And you know, a..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1453.857, "end": 1469.86, "time_label": "24:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And so I think artificial intelligence, what it can do is provide real time data and evidence for us to question these assumptions. So let me give you an example of this. Okay, so what do we mean by evidence in educatio..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks whether this AI turn would deprofessionalize teaching.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1471.12, "end": 1479.2, "time_label": "24:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Let me stop you. Let me stop you. Sorry, I can't ask you again. But does it not lead to the deep professionalization of teaching?" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says deprofessionalization is a real danger if educators cede the field to technologists, but he insists teachers are irreplaceable for emotional and communal reasons.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "segment_id": "seg-0037", "start": 1481.16, "end": 1532.76, "time_label": "24:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Um, okay, that's a good question. If, if we, we as educators do not participate in the process, it can, in fact, lead to the replacement of teachers, right? I mean, if you just talk to a technology technologist, who has..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks about the controversial Chinese use of facial recognition in classrooms.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1584.88, "end": 1616.54, "time_label": "26:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so, again, I just push on a little bit, but I think it's a bit more so in in in the West, in particular, I remember there was a BBC report that I read last year, about the use of facial recognition in, in classrooms..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang distinguishes empty technology worship from a real process of asking what an educational tool is supposed to achieve.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "time_label": "26:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom,..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang finishes his facial-recognition answer by describing the sort of goal-driven systemic process that would ask whether cameras are even the right answer.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0042" ], "kind": "unclear", "summary": "The packet contains an empty transition segment with no usable speech content.", "speaker_attribution": null, "confidence": "low", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0042", "segment_id": "seg-0042", "start": 1726.79, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "28:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0043" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host pivots to COVID and asks what happened to schooling in China during closures.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0043", "segment_id": "seg-0043", "start": 1728.2, "end": 1749.76, "time_label": "28:48", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so, Jiang, I want to move on to a set of questions to do with COVID and, and the closure of schools. And, you know, we know a lot about how, you know, entire school systems have come to a close, and are grappling wi..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says Chinese students weathered school closures better than many Western students because families stayed deeply engaged during home learning.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1814.45, "end": 1819.33, "time_label": "30:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "because of the family engagement in China, we didn't have a lot of these mental health issues." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0046" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks how long schools were closed.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0046", "segment_id": "seg-0046", "start": 1819.95, "end": 1822.61, "time_label": "30:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so how long were schools closed?" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says closures lasted roughly two to three months, with possible delays to spring reopening, but argues Chinese families and cram schools make the public less anxious than in the West.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0048" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks how China will deal with learning loss and catch-up.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1866.01, "end": 1879.79, "time_label": "31:06", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And, Jiang, in terms of like, you know, we worry a lot about learning loss and catch up in your learning. And so how will how will they be approaching that in China?" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang answers the learning-loss question by tying it back to emotional support and using the one-month gaokao delay as proof that motivation suffered at home.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050", "segment_id": "seg-0050", "start": 1940.3, "end": 1951.6, "time_label": "32:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So that sort of classroom setting, where you're surrounded by peers, and you have a similar goal, you have a teacher, you have a mentor, motivating you on, encouraging you emotionally, I mean, it is vital to the learnin..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0051" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks for the three main lessons the world should learn from Chinese education.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0051", "segment_id": "seg-0051", "start": 1952.71, "end": 1976.03, "time_label": "32:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Thank you for that, Jiang. And my last question, I suppose I want to ask you, and thank you so much for the time that you spent with us today, is, what do you think the three lessons the world can learn from education i..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang gives three lessons: invest in teachers through support, align the whole community around educational goals, and focus on marginalized communities and equity.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054", "segment_id": "seg-0054", "start": 2102.7, "end": 2144.52, "time_label": "35:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Because what if you say that the good students will automatically understand or the good students will be self motivated to learn material on their own. But if you're a good teacher, you go into a more impoverished comm..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0055" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host reads a viewer question from Gail Brown about whether learning beyond the classroom can improve inference and problem solving.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas relaying viewer Gail Brown", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0055", "segment_id": "seg-0055", "start": 2145.61, "end": 2161.39, "time_label": "35:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "And so there's a question that's come up from Gail Brown, which I've flashed onto the screen over here. It says, professional learning and professional learning communities are already commonplace. Do you think this lea..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says professional learning works differently in China because the whole community participates, and he insists the world itself should become the classroom.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host relays a viewer comment agreeing that educational outcomes should be defined before chasing flashy technology.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas relaying viewer Kevin", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057", "segment_id": "seg-0057", "start": 2205.35, "end": 2228.73, "time_label": "36:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Great. You know, there's also a comment from a gentleman called Kevin from, I assume, India. He said, I'm sure it's really tempting to use cool tech as facial recognition for the sake of it. But indeed, being clear on t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang agrees and says that once you focus on process and engagement, many educational problems can be solved without spending money on technology at all.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang interview answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0059", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0060" ], "kind": "exchange", "summary": "The host closes the interview with thanks, and Jiang reciprocates before signing off.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Vikas and Jiang closing exchange", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0059", "segment_id": "seg-0059", "start": 2259.92, "end": 2288.04, "time_label": "37:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Jiang, I owe you a huge thanks for for today's interview. I know I have learned a lot, as always, in our conversations. And I look forward to having you back at a future opportunity to discuss these various subjects in..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0060", "segment_id": "seg-0060", "start": 2288.04, "end": 2293.12, "time_label": "38:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "It's been a pleasure. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Vikas. Bye bye. Bye bye." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "speaker_notes": [], "claims": [ { "claim": "Jiang says China has the world's largest public school system, educating about 200 million children in a relatively uniform structure with large classes and one teacher staying with a class through the school day.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "temporal_scope": "Current China diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "China", "school system", "scale" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that scarce university places and the gaokao make pressure and competition structurally central to Chinese schooling.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "temporal_scope": "Current China diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "gaokao", "scarcity", "competition" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says China's edtech boom rests on three advantages: cultural obsession with education, test-score fixation that turns learning into a solvable optimization problem, and WeChat as a shared communication backbone.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "temporal_scope": "Current China diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "edtech", "WeChat", "test scores" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says parents in China invest heavily in education with money, time, and emotion, even taking on debt and orienting family life around homework and scores.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "temporal_scope": "Current social pattern stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "parents", "education culture", "debt" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang presents WeChat class groups and livestreamed teacher mentoring as concrete edtech successes because they create fast parent feedback loops and let urban teachers coach rural teachers in real time.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "temporal_scope": "Current success cases stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "WeChat", "parent engagement", "teacher training" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 310.03, "end": 365.522, "time_label": "5:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. Thanks. So I would say there are three major successes we see every day in China. The first in terms of parental engagement. So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst themselves..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says online tutoring, remote access to better teachers, and rapid question feedback genuinely improve test scores for students in smaller cities.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009" ], "temporal_scope": "Current edtech outcome stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "test prep", "smaller cities", "score gains" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "segment_id": "seg-0009", "start": 365.522, "end": 406.51, "time_label": "6:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And this is a way to scaffold rapid teaching improvement in poor areas. And the third area of success, and this is really a major area of success is in test preparation. So that students in smaller cities are able to ac..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He identifies VIPKid as a major success because it connects Chinese students with English-speaking tutors in Western countries, satisfying parental demand for English learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "temporal_scope": "Current market example stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "VIPKid", "English learning", "parents" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang identifies Squirrel AI as a major success because its test centers use performance data to customize questions for each student.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "temporal_scope": "Current market example stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "Squirrel AI", "adaptive learning", "test prep" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says the three major failure zones of edtech are motivation, equity, and creativity.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "motivation", "equity", "creativity" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues that edtech can widen the gap between already motivated students and others, a pattern made more visible during COVID home learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013" ], "temporal_scope": "Cross-context diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "COVID", "motivation gap", "home learning" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says that for rural education, emotional isolation is often a bigger problem than lack of access to technology.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "temporal_scope": "Current rural education diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "rural schools", "emotional isolation", "access" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang's takeaway is that edtech does not remedy weak schools but amplifies whatever conditions are already present.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015" ], "temporal_scope": "General model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "edtech", "amplification", "school quality" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 639.47, "end": 649.67, "time_label": "10:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "has taught us in China is the importance of providing emotional support to students on focusing on their well -being and making sure that the part of others has what they call many bird's eye view of their own learning" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the way to turn a low-performing rural school around is not more technology but more community, including parent outreach, teacher development, and meaningful student-teacher conversation.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "temporal_scope": "Research-based school transformation model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "community", "rural schools", "school transformation" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that community support, not edtech spending by itself, is what ultimately produces higher test scores.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "temporal_scope": "Research-based diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "test scores", "community support", "edtech" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says PISA only gives a snapshot of elite Chinese regions such as Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, and Beijing rather than the whole country.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "temporal_scope": "Current measurement caveat stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "PISA", "regional inequality", "elite provinces" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that from 1949 to 1999 China focused heavily on equity and literacy by sending well-educated urban teachers into rural areas, and that this long campaign produced major dividends.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical diagnosis given on 2021-02-05 about 1949-1999.", "topic_tags": [ "equity", "literacy", "rural teachers" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the deeper rural-urban gap was not teacher quality but mentality: urban optimism about education versus rural fatalism about being trapped in farming life.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical-cultural model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "mentality", "fatalism", "optimism" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that urban teachers transformed rural outcomes partly by bringing belief and optimism with them, making students imagine a future beyond the countryside.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "teacher belief", "rural transformation", "motivation" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says that before 1999 the best and brightest often entered teaching because socialist wage equality reduced financial incentives to choose other professions.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical diagnosis about pre-1999 China stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "teaching profession", "socialism", "status" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that earlier Chinese schooling was more vibrant and creative than outsiders realize, with influences such as John Dewey, experimental education, and holistic learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical diagnosis about pre-1999 China stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "John Dewey", "experimental education", "history" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the market economy pulled many top students into finance instead of teaching, lowering the average quality of the teaching profession.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical-to-current diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "market economy", "finance", "teacher quality" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He nevertheless says teaching remains highly respected in China, with parents deferring to teachers in a feedback loop that sustains teacher motivation.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "temporal_scope": "Current cultural diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "respect", "parents", "teacher motivation" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says China retains teachers well because new teachers receive mentors, weekly professional development, and a strong collaborative culture.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "temporal_scope": "Current system diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "retention", "mentorship", "professional development" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1185.26, "end": 1239.86, "time_label": "19:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "an amazing job in terms of teacher retention rates so why is that China has a great system of teacher training right so you come into the system you have mentors every week you have one day of professional development a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He defines the third education revolution as democratizing access and bringing science, evidence, and data into education so it becomes less intuitive and more rigorous.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032" ], "temporal_scope": "Future-oriented educational model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "third education revolution", "science", "AI" ], "claim_type": "definition", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "time_label": "20:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brough..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues that educational conferences and debates keep recycling the same assumptions because core slogans such as well-being and creativity are not rigorously defined or tested.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034" ], "temporal_scope": "Current education-sector diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "education conferences", "assumptions", "slogans" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "segment_id": "seg-0034", "start": 1391.5, "end": 1453.857, "time_label": "23:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "um core essence of what you're doing at this time of day but you have to have a lot of assumptions assumptions. And we have a lot of beliefs. And we don't actually question these assumptions and beliefs. And you know, a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says AI can provide real-time data and evidence that force educators to question their assumptions.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "temporal_scope": "Method claim stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "AI", "evidence", "assumptions" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1453.857, "end": 1469.86, "time_label": "24:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And so I think artificial intelligence, what it can do is provide real time data and evidence for us to question these assumptions. So let me give you an example of this. Okay, so what do we mean by evidence in educatio..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says that if educators do not participate in shaping AI, technologists will optimize only for test scores and create long-term corrosive effects on children's emotional development.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037" ], "temporal_scope": "Conditional warning stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "AI", "technologists", "test scores", "emotional development" ], "claim_type": "prediction", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "segment_id": "seg-0037", "start": 1481.16, "end": 1532.76, "time_label": "24:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Um, okay, that's a good question. If, if we, we as educators do not participate in the process, it can, in fact, lead to the replacement of teachers, right? I mean, if you just talk to a technology technologist, who has..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that teachers are irreplaceable because education depends on a community of scholars that supports and motivates students in ways technology cannot replicate.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "temporal_scope": "General educational model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "community of scholars", "irreplaceable" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang describes the Hangzhou facial-recognition example as technology worship: using surveillance because it looks modern, not because it has passed a real educational evaluation.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040" ], "temporal_scope": "Current policy critique stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "facial recognition", "Hangzhou", "technology worship" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "time_label": "26:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom,..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says a real systemic process starts by naming the educational goal, such as motivation and engagement, before deciding whether technology helps.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "temporal_scope": "Method claim stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "systemic process", "motivation", "engagement" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that when China adopts edtech without such a process, it ends up using facial recognition to monitor behavior instead of solving the real engagement problem.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "facial recognition", "monitoring", "engagement" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Chinese schools closed earlier than many Western systems but the impact on students was not as severe because parents scaffolded home learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045" ], "temporal_scope": "Pandemic diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "COVID", "school closures", "parents" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1814.45, "end": 1819.33, "time_label": "30:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "because of the family engagement in China, we didn't have a lot of these mental health issues." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He contrasts this with Western reports of more severe mental-health breakdowns during lockdowns.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative pandemic diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "mental health", "West", "lockdowns" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Chinese school closures lasted roughly two to three months, and that further regional COVID outbreaks might delay the spring semester.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "temporal_scope": "Near-term update stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "closures", "spring semester", "COVID outbreaks" ], "claim_type": "prediction", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says people in China are less worried about closures because family engagement remains high and many students continue learning through cram schools outside formal classrooms.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "temporal_scope": "Current social diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "cram schools", "family engagement", "worry" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the gaokao was delayed by one month during COVID school closures, something he describes as unprecedented in the previous thirty years.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Retrospective pandemic fact stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "gaokao", "COVID", "delay" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says the delay happened because students reported being less focused and less motivated studying at home than in a shared classroom.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050" ], "temporal_scope": "Retrospective pandemic diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "motivation", "home learning", "classroom" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050", "segment_id": "seg-0050", "start": 1940.3, "end": 1951.6, "time_label": "32:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So that sort of classroom setting, where you're surrounded by peers, and you have a similar goal, you have a teacher, you have a mentor, motivating you on, encouraging you emotionally, I mean, it is vital to the learnin..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang's first lesson is that investing in teachers means support, mentorship, professional development, and community rather than simply paying them more.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative lesson stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "support", "professional development" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "His second lesson is that education systems need clear goals and alignment among parents and teachers, even though China's existing score obsession is itself a flawed goal.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative lesson stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "alignment", "parents", "goals", "test scores" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "His third lesson is to focus on equity and marginalized communities, because that improves outcomes for vulnerable children and forces good teachers to deepen their pedagogy.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative lesson stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "equity", "marginalized communities", "pedagogy" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054", "segment_id": "seg-0054", "start": 2102.7, "end": 2144.52, "time_label": "35:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Because what if you say that the good students will automatically understand or the good students will be self motivated to learn material on their own. But if you're a good teacher, you go into a more impoverished comm..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says China focused on equity especially well from 1949 to 1999, though less well now.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05 about 1949-1999 and after.", "topic_tags": [ "equity", "history", "1949-1999" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says learning outside the classroom is essential and that schools in China are too siloed from real communities and global issues.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis and normative claim stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "world as classroom", "professional learning", "silos" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang endorses the view that educational outcomes should be clarified before choosing technology, because low-tech interventions may solve the problem more directly.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative takeaway stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "outcomes", "low-tech", "process" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057", "segment_id": "seg-0057", "start": 2205.35, "end": 2228.73, "time_label": "36:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Great. You know, there's also a comment from a gentleman called Kevin from, I assume, India. He said, I'm sure it's really tempting to use cool tech as facial recognition for the sake of it. But indeed, being clear on t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that if the real goal is engagement, schools often do not need to spend money on technology to solve the problem.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "temporal_scope": "General educational model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "engagement", "cost", "technology" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "signature_moments": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "moment": "Education becomes edtech-friendly when a society reduces it to a score-maximizing puzzle.", "source_phrase": "it makes education into a solvable problem", "why_it_matters": "This is Jiang's core mechanism for why Chinese edtech can scale without solving deeper questions of well-being.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "moment": "WeChat is treated as the hidden operating system of Chinese edtech rather than just a messaging app.", "source_phrase": "they can do everything within WeChat", "why_it_matters": "It shows Jiang locating the sector's power in social infrastructure and coordination, not only in standalone products.", "tone": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "moment": "Edtech is reframed as an amplifier rather than a cure.", "source_phrase": "EdTech does not remedy and amplifies", "why_it_matters": "This is the packet's sharpest reusable mechanism and likely to matter for the later public read.", "tone": "reversal", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "moment": "The real deficit in rural schooling is emotional isolation, not gadget scarcity.", "source_phrase": "emotional isolation is a bigger problem", "why_it_matters": "It flips the development narrative away from hardware access toward human connection.", "tone": "reversal", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "moment": "The remedy for a weak school is community, not more machines.", "source_phrase": "the answer is not actually more technology the answer is more community", "why_it_matters": "This condenses Jiang's whole critique of educational solutionism into one line.", "tone": "reversal", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "moment": "The rural problem is narrated as fatalism rather than mere material deprivation.", "source_phrase": "there's a real fatalism that was destroying communities", "why_it_matters": "It explains why Jiang keeps returning to motivation, belief, and emotional support as structural levers.", "tone": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "moment": "A professor reimagines children of farmers into a community of scholars.", "source_phrase": "reimagined this classroom of students into a community of scholars", "why_it_matters": "This is the packet's strongest image of educational transformation by belief and mentorship.", "tone": "image", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "moment": "Respect for teachers is cast as a virtuous feedback loop between parents and educators.", "source_phrase": "it becomes a virtuous feedback loop", "why_it_matters": "This gives Jiang's social explanation for why retention can remain high even after the market shift.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032" ], "moment": "Education is compared to nineteenth-century medicine before the scientific revolution.", "source_phrase": "education today is like medicine in the 19th century", "why_it_matters": "It is Jiang's most memorable analogy for why evidence and AI matter to his reform vision.", "tone": "metaphor", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "moment": "Teachers are described as irreplaceable not by sentiment but because education is a human community of scholars.", "source_phrase": "Teachers are irreplaceable components of education", "why_it_matters": "This is Jiang's cleanest line against fully automated schooling.", "tone": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040" ], "moment": "Facial recognition becomes the emblem of educational technology worship.", "source_phrase": "we want facial recognition in the classroom, because it looks cool", "why_it_matters": "It compresses Jiang's objection to trend-chasing without educational judgment.", "tone": "provocation", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "time_label": "26:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom,..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "moment": "The right educational process can make a classroom choose a more engaging teacher over more cameras.", "source_phrase": "do you have more cameras in the classroom", "why_it_matters": "It dramatizes Jiang's claim that better questions, not shinier tools, change educational outcomes.", "tone": "question", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "moment": "Family support is described as the scaffold that prevented Chinese school closures from becoming a deeper social disaster.", "source_phrase": "this family that really supported, scaffolded the kids", "why_it_matters": "It carries Jiang's repeated thesis that emotional and communal support outrank pure technology access.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "moment": "The one-month gaokao delay becomes proof that emotional support, not mere content delivery, is what holds learning together.", "source_phrase": "this has never happened before in the past 30 years", "why_it_matters": "It gives Jiang a hard institutional marker for the otherwise softer claim about motivation.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053" ], "moment": "Great teachers are made by sending them where teaching is hardest.", "source_phrase": "send them into the most marginalized communities", "why_it_matters": "This is Jiang's most forceful educational ethic in the interview.", "tone": "provocation", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "moment": "The world itself should be the classroom.", "source_phrase": "the world should be the classroom", "why_it_matters": "It is a compact public-facing line likely worth preserving in the final read.", "tone": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "moment": "The interview ends by stripping educational reform down to a brutal criterion: if engagement is the goal, you may not need technology at all.", "source_phrase": "you actually don't need technology to solve most problems", "why_it_matters": "It is the cleanest closing compression of Jiang's anti-solutionist stance.", "tone": "reversal", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "predictions": [ { "claim": "Jiang says that if educators do not participate in shaping AI, technologists will optimize only for test scores and create long-term corrosive effects on children's emotional development.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037" ], "temporal_scope": "Conditional warning stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "AI", "technologists", "test scores", "emotional development" ], "claim_type": "prediction", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "segment_id": "seg-0037", "start": 1481.16, "end": 1532.76, "time_label": "24:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Um, okay, that's a good question. If, if we, we as educators do not participate in the process, it can, in fact, lead to the replacement of teachers, right? I mean, if you just talk to a technology technologist, who has..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Chinese school closures lasted roughly two to three months, and that further regional COVID outbreaks might delay the spring semester.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "temporal_scope": "Near-term update stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "closures", "spring semester", "COVID outbreaks" ], "claim_type": "prediction", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "models": [ { "claim": "He argues that scarce university places and the gaokao make pressure and competition structurally central to Chinese schooling.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "temporal_scope": "Current China diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "gaokao", "scarcity", "competition" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says China's edtech boom rests on three advantages: cultural obsession with education, test-score fixation that turns learning into a solvable optimization problem, and WeChat as a shared communication backbone.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "temporal_scope": "Current China diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "edtech", "WeChat", "test scores" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang's takeaway is that edtech does not remedy weak schools but amplifies whatever conditions are already present.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015" ], "temporal_scope": "General model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "edtech", "amplification", "school quality" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 639.47, "end": 649.67, "time_label": "10:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "has taught us in China is the importance of providing emotional support to students on focusing on their well -being and making sure that the part of others has what they call many bird's eye view of their own learning" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the way to turn a low-performing rural school around is not more technology but more community, including parent outreach, teacher development, and meaningful student-teacher conversation.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "temporal_scope": "Research-based school transformation model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "community", "rural schools", "school transformation" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the deeper rural-urban gap was not teacher quality but mentality: urban optimism about education versus rural fatalism about being trapped in farming life.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical-cultural model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "mentality", "fatalism", "optimism" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that urban teachers transformed rural outcomes partly by bringing belief and optimism with them, making students imagine a future beyond the countryside.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "teacher belief", "rural transformation", "motivation" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says China retains teachers well because new teachers receive mentors, weekly professional development, and a strong collaborative culture.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "temporal_scope": "Current system diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "retention", "mentorship", "professional development" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1185.26, "end": 1239.86, "time_label": "19:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "an amazing job in terms of teacher retention rates so why is that China has a great system of teacher training right so you come into the system you have mentors every week you have one day of professional development a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says AI can provide real-time data and evidence that force educators to question their assumptions.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "temporal_scope": "Method claim stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "AI", "evidence", "assumptions" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1453.857, "end": 1469.86, "time_label": "24:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And so I think artificial intelligence, what it can do is provide real time data and evidence for us to question these assumptions. So let me give you an example of this. Okay, so what do we mean by evidence in educatio..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that teachers are irreplaceable because education depends on a community of scholars that supports and motivates students in ways technology cannot replicate.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "temporal_scope": "General educational model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "community of scholars", "irreplaceable" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says a real systemic process starts by naming the educational goal, such as motivation and engagement, before deciding whether technology helps.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "temporal_scope": "Method claim stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "systemic process", "motivation", "engagement" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that if the real goal is engagement, schools often do not need to spend money on technology to solve the problem.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "temporal_scope": "General educational model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "engagement", "cost", "technology" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "diagnoses": [ { "claim": "Jiang says China has the world's largest public school system, educating about 200 million children in a relatively uniform structure with large classes and one teacher staying with a class through the school day.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "temporal_scope": "Current China diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "China", "school system", "scale" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says parents in China invest heavily in education with money, time, and emotion, even taking on debt and orienting family life around homework and scores.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "temporal_scope": "Current social pattern stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "parents", "education culture", "debt" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says the three major failure zones of edtech are motivation, equity, and creativity.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "motivation", "equity", "creativity" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues that edtech can widen the gap between already motivated students and others, a pattern made more visible during COVID home learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013" ], "temporal_scope": "Cross-context diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "COVID", "motivation gap", "home learning" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says that for rural education, emotional isolation is often a bigger problem than lack of access to technology.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "temporal_scope": "Current rural education diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "rural schools", "emotional isolation", "access" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 580.31, "end": 639.47, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "we connect rural students with urban teachers then rural teachers then the learning outcomes of these rural kids will increase greatly but that's not the case what we find is that the emotional isolation is a bigger pro..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that community support, not edtech spending by itself, is what ultimately produces higher test scores.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "temporal_scope": "Research-based diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "test scores", "community support", "edtech" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 669.16, "end": 733.62, "time_label": "11:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "point right a lot of we do research is that um if you actually focus on children's well -being then you improve um test scores so let me give you give you some examples of this okay so um i've done some research in rura..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says PISA only gives a snapshot of elite Chinese regions such as Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, and Beijing rather than the whole country.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "temporal_scope": "Current measurement caveat stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "PISA", "regional inequality", "elite provinces" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that from 1949 to 1999 China focused heavily on equity and literacy by sending well-educated urban teachers into rural areas, and that this long campaign produced major dividends.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical diagnosis given on 2021-02-05 about 1949-1999.", "topic_tags": [ "equity", "literacy", "rural teachers" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says that before 1999 the best and brightest often entered teaching because socialist wage equality reduced financial incentives to choose other professions.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical diagnosis about pre-1999 China stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "teaching profession", "socialism", "status" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that earlier Chinese schooling was more vibrant and creative than outsiders realize, with influences such as John Dewey, experimental education, and holistic learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical diagnosis about pre-1999 China stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "John Dewey", "experimental education", "history" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the market economy pulled many top students into finance instead of teaching, lowering the average quality of the teaching profession.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical-to-current diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "market economy", "finance", "teacher quality" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He nevertheless says teaching remains highly respected in China, with parents deferring to teachers in a feedback loop that sustains teacher motivation.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "temporal_scope": "Current cultural diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "respect", "parents", "teacher motivation" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues that educational conferences and debates keep recycling the same assumptions because core slogans such as well-being and creativity are not rigorously defined or tested.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034" ], "temporal_scope": "Current education-sector diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "education conferences", "assumptions", "slogans" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "segment_id": "seg-0034", "start": 1391.5, "end": 1453.857, "time_label": "23:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "um core essence of what you're doing at this time of day but you have to have a lot of assumptions assumptions. And we have a lot of beliefs. And we don't actually question these assumptions and beliefs. And you know, a..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang describes the Hangzhou facial-recognition example as technology worship: using surveillance because it looks modern, not because it has passed a real educational evaluation.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040" ], "temporal_scope": "Current policy critique stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "facial recognition", "Hangzhou", "technology worship" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "time_label": "26:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom,..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues that when China adopts edtech without such a process, it ends up using facial recognition to monitor behavior instead of solving the real engagement problem.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "facial recognition", "monitoring", "engagement" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Chinese schools closed earlier than many Western systems but the impact on students was not as severe because parents scaffolded home learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045" ], "temporal_scope": "Pandemic diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "COVID", "school closures", "parents" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1814.45, "end": 1819.33, "time_label": "30:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "because of the family engagement in China, we didn't have a lot of these mental health issues." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He contrasts this with Western reports of more severe mental-health breakdowns during lockdowns.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative pandemic diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "mental health", "West", "lockdowns" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1750.45, "end": 1814.09, "time_label": "29:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So, you know, the Chinese school system closed a lot earlier than the other school systems. And the impact wasn't as bad for students, right? So I know that in the West, there have been several mental health issu..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says people in China are less worried about closures because family engagement remains high and many students continue learning through cram schools outside formal classrooms.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "temporal_scope": "Current social diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "cram schools", "family engagement", "worry" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says the delay happened because students reported being less focused and less motivated studying at home than in a shared classroom.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050" ], "temporal_scope": "Retrospective pandemic diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "motivation", "home learning", "classroom" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0050", "segment_id": "seg-0050", "start": 1940.3, "end": 1951.6, "time_label": "32:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So that sort of classroom setting, where you're surrounded by peers, and you have a similar goal, you have a teacher, you have a mentor, motivating you on, encouraging you emotionally, I mean, it is vital to the learnin..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says China focused on equity especially well from 1949 to 1999, though less well now.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053" ], "temporal_scope": "Historical diagnosis stated on 2021-02-05 about 1949-1999 and after.", "topic_tags": [ "equity", "history", "1949-1999" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "other_claims": [ { "claim": "Jiang presents WeChat class groups and livestreamed teacher mentoring as concrete edtech successes because they create fast parent feedback loops and let urban teachers coach rural teachers in real time.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "temporal_scope": "Current success cases stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "WeChat", "parent engagement", "teacher training" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 310.03, "end": 365.522, "time_label": "5:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. Thanks. So I would say there are three major successes we see every day in China. The first in terms of parental engagement. So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst themselves..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says online tutoring, remote access to better teachers, and rapid question feedback genuinely improve test scores for students in smaller cities.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009" ], "temporal_scope": "Current edtech outcome stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "test prep", "smaller cities", "score gains" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "segment_id": "seg-0009", "start": 365.522, "end": 406.51, "time_label": "6:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And this is a way to scaffold rapid teaching improvement in poor areas. And the third area of success, and this is really a major area of success is in test preparation. So that students in smaller cities are able to ac..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He identifies VIPKid as a major success because it connects Chinese students with English-speaking tutors in Western countries, satisfying parental demand for English learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "temporal_scope": "Current market example stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "VIPKid", "English learning", "parents" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang identifies Squirrel AI as a major success because its test centers use performance data to customize questions for each student.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "temporal_scope": "Current market example stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "Squirrel AI", "adaptive learning", "test prep" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He defines the third education revolution as democratizing access and bringing science, evidence, and data into education so it becomes less intuitive and more rigorous.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032" ], "temporal_scope": "Future-oriented educational model stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "third education revolution", "science", "AI" ], "claim_type": "definition", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "time_label": "20:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brough..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the gaokao was delayed by one month during COVID school closures, something he describes as unprecedented in the previous thirty years.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Retrospective pandemic fact stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "gaokao", "COVID", "delay" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang's first lesson is that investing in teachers means support, mentorship, professional development, and community rather than simply paying them more.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative lesson stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "support", "professional development" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "His second lesson is that education systems need clear goals and alignment among parents and teachers, even though China's existing score obsession is itself a flawed goal.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative lesson stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "alignment", "parents", "goals", "test scores" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "His third lesson is to focus on equity and marginalized communities, because that improves outcomes for vulnerable children and forces good teachers to deepen their pedagogy.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative lesson stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "equity", "marginalized communities", "pedagogy" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0054", "segment_id": "seg-0054", "start": 2102.7, "end": 2144.52, "time_label": "35:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Because what if you say that the good students will automatically understand or the good students will be self motivated to learn material on their own. But if you're a good teacher, you go into a more impoverished comm..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says learning outside the classroom is essential and that schools in China are too siloed from real communities and global issues.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis and normative claim stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "world as classroom", "professional learning", "silos" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang endorses the view that educational outcomes should be clarified before choosing technology, because low-tech interventions may solve the problem more directly.", "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative takeaway stated on 2021-02-05.", "topic_tags": [ "outcomes", "low-tech", "process" ], "claim_type": "normative", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0057", "segment_id": "seg-0057", "start": 2205.35, "end": 2228.73, "time_label": "36:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Great. You know, there's also a comment from a gentleman called Kevin from, I assume, India. He said, I'm sure it's really tempting to use cool tech as facial recognition for the sake of it. But indeed, being clear on t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "glossary_terms": [ { "term": "community of scholars", "usages": [ "Jiang's phrase for a classroom culture where students are treated as intellectually capable members of a serious learning community.", "Here Jiang uses the phrase to describe the human learning community that teachers sustain and AI cannot replace." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 977.27, "end": 999.33, "time_label": "16:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "that every one of these 50 kids every one of them got a PhD and these are kids who are children of farmers and they expect to be farmers but some guy a professor came in and reimagined this classroom of students into a..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1532.76, "end": 1583.72, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "education, that technologists will come in and just replace teachers with robots, and we'll be stuck with this system of memorization and regurgitation. But if you actually look at the evidence, and I keep on saying abo..." } ] }, { "term": "cram schools", "usages": [ "Out-of-school tutoring institutions Jiang cites as one reason Chinese families are less alarmed by temporary school closures." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." } ] }, { "term": "equity issues", "usages": [ "Jiang's third lesson: direct attention and investment toward marginalized communities rather than relying on already advantaged students to carry the system." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0052", "segment_id": "seg-0052", "start": 1977.03, "end": 2050.32, "time_label": "32:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so lesson one is invest in your teachers, right? And that doesn't mean, give them more money. We have no, we have, we don't have that many examples where just paying teachers more will make them more motivated. It..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." } ] }, { "term": "gaokao", "usages": [ "China's competitive college entrance examination, described here as the mechanism for distributing scarce higher-education opportunities." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." } ] }, { "term": "interestingly motivated", "usages": [ "Jiang's repeated phrase for students whose motivation is internally alive rather than externally forced." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." } ] }, { "term": "PISA snapshot", "usages": [ "Jiang's warning that international test rankings capture standout regions rather than the whole Chinese education landscape." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." } ] }, { "term": "same process", "usages": [ "Jiang's shorthand for judging technology by a prior educational process of defining goals and testing what really improves engagement." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0058", "segment_id": "seg-0058", "start": 2229.29, "end": 2257.99, "time_label": "37:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I know. I know. He I mean, like, it's, he said it so, so well. But I mean, I was talking about how you want to focus on technology, where you focus on the same process, right? Because technology, yeah, it's really..." } ] }, { "term": "Squirrel AI", "usages": [ "The adaptive test-prep company Jiang cites; the ASR renders the name imperfectly but the intended firm appears to be Squirrel AI." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ] }, { "term": "systemic process", "usages": [ "Jiang's method of starting from a learning goal, testing hypotheses, and then deciding whether any technology actually helps." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1666.724, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "27:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So basically, if you use your systemic process, how it works is one, you, you say to yourself, listen, we're trying to increase motivation levels in the classroom, right? So you're going to increase motivation levels in..." } ] }, { "term": "technology worship", "usages": [ "Jiang's phrase for adopting classroom technology for spectacle or status rather than from evidence about learning." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1617.72, "end": 1666.724, "time_label": "26:57", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, so I think there are two things going on, right? There's technology, there's technology worship, and then there's some process, right? Technology worship is just like, we want facial recognition in the classroom,..." } ] }, { "term": "third education revolution", "usages": [ "Jiang's label for the next stage of education, where access broadens and science, evidence, and AI reshape the field." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "time_label": "20:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brough..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1315.48, "end": 1350.82, "time_label": "21:55", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "art into a science right so i think that education today is like medicine in the in the 19th century it was very intuitive it was very and then you had a generation of scientists um who came into the medical profession..." } ] }, { "term": "VIPKid", "usages": [ "A Chinese edtech company Jiang cites as a success story for connecting Chinese students with English-speaking tutors abroad." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ] }, { "term": "virtuous feedback loop", "usages": [ "Jiang's description of how parental respect increases teacher motivation, which in turn earns more parental respect." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." } ] }, { "term": "WeChat community", "usages": [ "The shared communication layer through which teachers, parents, and students coordinate lessons, livestreams, and feedback." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 310.03, "end": 365.522, "time_label": "5:10", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. Thanks. So I would say there are three major successes we see every day in China. The first in terms of parental engagement. So every classroom has an online WeChat community where parents talk amongst themselves..." } ] }, { "term": "world should be the classroom", "usages": [ "Jiang's phrase for breaking schools out of test-focused silos and reconnecting them to community and real-world problems." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0056", "segment_id": "seg-0056", "start": 2162.46, "end": 2203.72, "time_label": "36:02", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Okay, so professional learning is commonplace. But I think it's done differently in, in China. And the reason why is the entire community is invested in professional learning. So principals, parents, they're all involve..." } ] } ], "chronology_notes": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "note": "The interview begins on 2021-02-05 with Jiang describing pre-crackdown Chinese edtech at peak scale and profitability.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 120.32, "end": 184.78, "time_label": "2:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So China has the world's largest public school system. It educates about 200 million children. And it's a very monolithic system. So you have schools around China are about the same. You have 50 kids in a class ta..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 185, "end": 235.86, "time_label": "3:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And I would say there are three distinct advantages. The first is that there's a cultural obsession with education. So parents are heavily invested in their child's education. We mean this financially, right? So parents..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 236.04, "end": 265.96, "time_label": "3:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "If it's just about including test scores, then ed tech can solve that problem. And the third major advantage is that there's a communication app called WeChat that dominates the ed tech space in China. So rather than us..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013" ], "note": "Because the interview is dated 2021-02-05, Jiang's COVID reference captures an early-pandemic diagnosis of widening motivation gaps during remote learning.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 526.39, "end": 580.31, "time_label": "8:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. So I would say the three big areas where EdTech has failed us is in terms of motivation, equity and creativity, right? So motivation is that to be great learners, students have to be interestingly motivated and wh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "note": "Jiang explicitly dates the equity-and-literacy buildout to 1949-1999, using it as the historical background for contemporary Chinese performance.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 811.6, "end": 869.62, "time_label": "13:31", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "lot of diversity in china so um peace only takes a snapshot of certain regions of china shanghai is doing extremely well uh jiangsu zhejiang province beijing obviously these are the wealthiest provinces in the world and..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 869.62, "end": 924.9, "time_label": "14:29", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "50 years we've had this massive transformation in education so let me really explain why um this transformation happened we found that the gap between the rural areas and the urban areas it was not one of teacher qualit..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "note": "Jiang anchors the teacher-status shift to the transition from the pre-1999 socialist era to the later market economy.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 1037.05, "end": 1101.63, "time_label": "17:17", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "had massive changes in the teaching profession over these past you know 70 years but you know before 1999 it was really the best and brightest who went into the teaching profession China China's a socialist country ever..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 1101.63, "end": 1162.36, "time_label": "18:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "best and brightest went into finance rather than rather than into teaching and you can imagine this had a major impact on the overall quality of the teaching profession but at the end of the day teaching is still a high..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "note": "The interview is recorded during Chinese New Year 2021, with Jiang describing closures as already reversed but still vulnerable to renewed outbreaks.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1824.07, "end": 1865.57, "time_label": "30:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "They were closed for a good two to three months. But now they're back. We're back in session. Yes. We are now in Chinese New Year. And we've had several COVID outbreaks in different regions in China. So they closed earl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053" ], "note": "This packet combines a near-present COVID example with a longer historical comparison between 1949-1999 and contemporary Chinese equity practice.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1880.83, "end": 1939.22, "time_label": "31:20", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, that's a good question. Again, you know, what I what I've discovered in my research, what I've learned in tech is that it's really emotional support that scaffolds the learning, right. And this is true in China as..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0053", "segment_id": "seg-0053", "start": 2051.18, "end": 2102.52, "time_label": "34:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "You know, from 1949 to 1999, China did that very well. It does it less well now, but it's still a major focus. And so what we're finding in education is that, you know, these rich kids, smart kids, they do well by thems..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0059", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0060" ], "note": "These final segments are a pure closing exchange and do not add a new dated substantive claim beyond the interview's existing 2021-02-05 frame.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0059", "segment_id": "seg-0059", "start": 2259.92, "end": 2288.04, "time_label": "37:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Jiang, I owe you a huge thanks for for today's interview. I know I have learned a lot, as always, in our conversations. And I look forward to having you back at a future opportunity to discuss these various subjects in..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0060", "segment_id": "seg-0060", "start": 2288.04, "end": 2293.12, "time_label": "38:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "It's been a pleasure. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Vikas. Bye bye. Bye bye." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "uncertainty_notes": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "note": "The ASR writes the company name as \"Skrill AI,\" but the surrounding description strongly suggests Squirrel AI.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 439.35, "end": 497.35, "time_label": "7:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Right. So one example is VIPKID. In fact, most of the EdTech unicorns in the world are based in China. So one example is VIPKID. What they do is they connect Chinese students with English speakers in Western countries...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016" ], "note": "The transcript is garbled at the transition into the host's follow-up, so the exact wording of the caring-community challenge is approximate even though the argumentative move is clear.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 639.47, "end": 649.67, "time_label": "10:39", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "has taught us in China is the importance of providing emotional support to students on focusing on their well -being and making sure that the part of others has what they call many bird's eye view of their own learning" }, { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 649.67, "end": 669.16, "time_label": "10:49", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "loving and supportive community I mean but is that a common thing I mean from what our perception of Chinese education is and what you said earlier was this incessant focus on test prep and test score right right that l..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "note": "This segment contains heavy ASR corruption, but the repeated emphasis on student-teacher conversation and community support is still clear.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 733.62, "end": 775.8, "time_label": "12:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "talk about lesson planning and then i'm in this class and they get a report of their success they ask questions and students and you know they will come and talk about these um lessons so any questions that you have uh..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022" ], "note": "The anecdote about Jiang's school leader is highly garbled, so extraction stays with the surrounding transformation story rather than specific biography details.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "segment_id": "seg-0022", "start": 924.9, "end": 977.27, "time_label": "15:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "tell you a story um that highlights this um i used to go to high school as you know tony university high school one of the best high schools in china my boss there one in june he actually grew up in the countryside duri..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031" ], "note": "The ASR is noisy in Jiang's description of the first and second education revolutions, so the extraction stays with the broad structure rather than exact phrasing.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1259.74, "end": 1315.48, "time_label": "20:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "i agree so um the first educational revolution is really the building of a black school system right the idea that um students can go to school and not actually just stay on a farm and learn stuff um and this was brough..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0042" ], "note": "seg-0042 is effectively empty and carries no semantic content.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-wvm3oqdviwy@transcript:v1#seg-0042", "segment_id": "seg-0042", "start": 1726.79, "end": 1727.13, "time_label": "28:46", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ] }