{ "generated_by": "Generated by ops/scripts/compile-content.mjs. Do not edit by hand.", "generated_at": "deterministic", "slug": "interview-irnhbw6w7we", "id": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we", "source_class": "interview", "collection": "interviews", "title": "China's Super Schools? - Jiang Xueqin. OTL14014", "source_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE", "video_id": "IRnhBw6w7WE", "embed_url": "https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/IRnhBw6w7WE", "published_at": "2014-06-19", "recorded_at": null, "date_precision": "day", "date_label": "2014-06-19, day precision", "chronology_status": "dated", "channel": { "id": "UC3WLGsZVhh0PGi_3LSuRKUg", "handle": "UC3WLGsZVhh0PGi_3LSuRKUg", "title": "ON THE LEVEL", "url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3WLGsZVhh0PGi_3LSuRKUg" }, "path_base": "/interviews", "path": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_path": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/", "data_url": "/data/lens/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we.json", "counts": { "semantic_passes": 7, "interactions": 35, "speaker_notes": 1, "claims": 42, "signature_moments": 20, "predictions": 1, "models": 12, "glossary_terms": 7, "chronology_notes": 7, "uncertainty_notes": 6, "glossary_candidates": 7, "transcript_segments": 50, "transcript_words": 5115, "duration_seconds": 1783.03, "duration_label": "29:43" }, "paths": { "source": "content/sources/videos/interview-irnhbw6w7we/source.yaml", "transcript": "content/sources/videos/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcripts/v1/transcript.clean.jsonl", "semantic_bundle": "content/lens/evidence/videos/interview-irnhbw6w7we.semantic.json", "semantic_passes": [ "content/workflow/proposals/interview-irnhbw6w7we/packet-0001.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-irnhbw6w7we/packet-0002.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-irnhbw6w7we/packet-0003.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-irnhbw6w7we/packet-0004.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-irnhbw6w7we/packet-0005.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-irnhbw6w7we/packet-0006.semantic.json", "content/workflow/proposals/interview-irnhbw6w7we/packet-0007.semantic.json" ], "read": "content/lens/episodes/interview-irnhbw6w7we/read.json" }, "read": { "id": "episode-read:interview-irnhbw6w7we:v1", "kind": "episode-read", "schema_version": 2, "source_id": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we", "slug": "interview-irnhbw6w7we", "title": "China's Super Schools Kill The Curiosity They Sell", "subtitle": "A 2014 television interview turns Shanghai's PISA triumph into a darker paradox: childhood dies early, study abroad becomes a desperate escape, and empathy becomes the missing condition of China's rise.", "read_time": "7 min", "editorial_mode": "distilled-interview", "voice_policy": "Direct interview-driven prose preserving the host's pressure and Jiang's sharper formulations without flattening the source into a neutral education brief.", "trace_policy": "Paragraph claims and selective marks carry exact transcript refs. The read stays attached to the dated 2014-06-19 broadcast and uses only performed interviewer questions.", "dek": "The interview begins with a familiar Western panic: Shanghai tops PISA again, so maybe the future belongs to China. Jiang's answer is not triumphal. He says the fear is partly overblown, but the deeper problem is real. Chinese schools still command respect, discipline, and test performance, yet they do so by sorting children early, killing curiosity, and turning the gaokao into a machine that affluent families increasingly try to escape.", "thesis": "This interview is built around a paradox Jiang keeps tightening. From the outside, Shanghai looks like the model school system the West fears and envies. From the inside, he says, the same system is unfair, elitist, childhood-crushing, and destructive of the very creativity and empathy a rising society will eventually need. That paradox does not disappear when families send children abroad. It merely migrates. American universities recruit Chinese students for money, parents imagine overseas study as a panacea, and students shaped by obedience often land in classrooms that suddenly demand independence, curiosity, and open-ended initiative. Jiang's way out is not a small exam reform. It is a deeper shift toward early-childhood investment, less fear-bound sorting, and the explicit cultivation of empathy as a social and geopolitical capacity.", "source_notes": [ { "text": "This is a dated ON THE LEVEL interview from 2014-06-19. The host introduces Jiang as Zhang Xueqin, and the transcript carries mild ASR noise in some names and institutional acronyms, but the argument is stable and traceable throughout.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "segment_id": "seg-0001", "start": 25.68, "end": 79.353, "time_label": "0:25", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Welcome to On the Level, broadcasting from the Blue Ocean Network studios here in Beijing. My name is Fergus Thompson. Every three years, the results from the PISA assessment, that's the Programme for International Stud..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "segment_id": "seg-0002", "start": 79.353, "end": 118.84, "time_label": "1:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "He was born in China but emigrated to Canada with his family at a young age and was educated there. After college, he spent some time as a journalist in China and also as a UN official. He then moved back to China to wo..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "time_label": "22:44", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people yo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "Boundary repair cleaned several repeated or split transcript lines, especially around the age-six sorting critique, the overseas-study section, and the Finland/empathy turn. This read follows the repaired continuity rather than the duplicated ASR fragments.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 427.71, "end": 463.668, "time_label": "7:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "a very unfair system because, you know, the development trajectory of kids, of any adult, it's not a linear trajectory. You don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "segment_id": "seg-0012", "start": 463.668, "end": 476.43, "time_label": "7:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. So, it's a really unfair, elitist system." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "opening": { "heading": "Core Reading", "text": "Jiang's strongest move is to refuse both sides of the easy story. He does not deny that Shanghai's PISA performance matters. He grants that Chinese schools still generate seriousness, respect for teachers, and a large future supply of engineers and technically trained students. But he also insists that the global panic over Chinese educational superiority hides a darker truth: the same system sorts children too early, turns the gaokao into a total pressure regime, kills curiosity in the first years of schooling, and then pushes wealthy families to flee abroad in search of the freedom the system itself cannot produce. By the end of the interview, the argument has widened further. The real educational shortage is not only creativity. It is empathy. A country that cannot teach children to understand strangers will struggle not just to innovate but to rise peacefully in a global world.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "marks": [ { "text": "America's Sputnik moment", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "a death of childhood in China", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "China right now is considered a black box", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. 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Jiang partly accepts the premise. He says the American reaction really did take on a Cold War atmosphere, a new 'Sputnik moment,' because everyone already sensed that U.S. schooling was dysfunctional and that Chinese students still seemed more focused, especially in math and science. But he also says the media loves fear, which means the China story is amplified not only by evidence but by panic.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "marks": [ { "text": "the future now belongs to China", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "media loves fear", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 262.96, "end": 293.26, "time_label": "4:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There's a respect for teachers. That doesn't really exist anymore in North America or in Europe. And kids love math. They love the sciences. A lot of engineers in the future for the global economy are going to reproduce..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "pisa-fear-and-the-sorting-machine-002", "text": "He then makes the first necessary qualification. Shanghai is not China. It is a rich coastal city with exceptional resources, and the host is right to ask what would happen if one counted the country's vast underfunded rural schools. Yet Jiang refuses to let that qualification dissolve the larger issue. A city of twenty million with some of the country's best schools is still a major producer of future engineers and entrepreneurs. The comparison may be distorted, but it is not meaningless.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "segment_id": "seg-0007", "start": 293.76, "end": 311.32, "time_label": "4:53", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "There's something, just a curious point there. We're comparing countries like the United States and Sweden and the United Kingdom with Shanghai rather than China. But what I was wondering is, is the comparison going to..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 311.64, "end": 363.32, "time_label": "5:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that's a great point. I think that right now in China, because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people, it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people. You're going to have a wide dispa..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] }, { "id": "pisa-fear-and-the-sorting-machine-003", "text": "The deeper contrast arrives when Jiang compares Canada and China. Canada, he says, is organized around equity and mobility, trying to ensure that schools are broadly similar and that children can make the most of their time in them. China is a competitive feeder system that starts sorting children almost immediately. The problem is not only pressure. It is that the system pretends a child's eventual development can be inferred from early tests. Jiang treats that as both educationally foolish and morally unfair.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012" ], "marks": [ { "text": "sorts students from day one", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "time_label": "6:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. 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And the idea..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 311.64, "end": 363.32, "time_label": "5:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that's a great point. I think that right now in China, because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people, it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people. You're going to have a wide dispa..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "time_label": "6:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids have access to a decent e..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "segment_id": "seg-0012", "start": 463.668, "end": 476.43, "time_label": "7:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. So, it's a really unfair, elitist system." } ] }, { "id": "gaokao-childhood-and-exit", "heading": "Gaokao Prestige Produces A Childhood People Try To Escape", "time_range": "07:56-20:32", "summary": "The middle of the interview turns the gaokao into a total social system, then shows why the same affluent families who benefit from Chinese success increasingly send children abroad anyway.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "gaokao-childhood-and-exit-001", "text": "Jiang's most severe compression of the Chinese system comes in the gaokao section. From one angle, the exam looks fair: a national, objective allocator of scarce opportunity. From another, it reorganizes childhood from the beginning. Three or four-year-old children are already being tested, drilled, nagged, and pushed into extra classes because everyone knows those three exam days years later will determine access to status and mobility. His phrase for the result is not mild. It is a death of childhood.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "marks": [ { "text": "a death of childhood in China", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 476.67, "end": 494.37, "time_label": "7:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "It's also a very high pressure system. There is an exam system here called Gaokao, which is the university entrance exam across the country and everything is geared, as you say, from kindergarten upwards to getting good..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "gaokao-childhood-and-exit-002", "text": "That is why the PISA story becomes paradoxical instead of triumphant. The same system admired abroad is increasingly fled at home. Jiang says middle-class and wealthy Chinese families migrate or send children to Canada, New Zealand, and the United States because they believe the domestic system is hurting their only child. The fear is not merely overwork. It is that curiosity, creativity, imagination, and even empathy are extinguished very quickly once formal schooling begins.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 567.77, "end": 579.95, "time_label": "9:27", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "If the Chinese system is doing so well on an international scale, why are more and more Chinese parents sending their kids abroad, not only to study at university, but now in increasing numbers in high schools in North..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 695.88, "end": 704.86, "time_label": "11:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And it was really heartbreaking for me to see when I visit these schools. But that is a real issue for Chinese parents, to see their kids die like this." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] }, { "id": "gaokao-childhood-and-exit-003", "text": "The classroom image Jiang gives is brutal and memorable. First graders still ask questions. Their eyes are bright. They still want to participate. Then the system teaches them that asking questions makes them troublemakers. By grade two or grade three they stand in line, obedient and lifeless. This is not a side complaint. It is his everyday mechanism for how a high-performing system can still destroy the capacities it will later claim to want.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "marks": [ { "text": "if you ask questions, you're a troublemaker", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "their eyes are kind of blank, kind of lifeless", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 695.88, "end": 704.86, "time_label": "11:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And it was really heartbreaking for me to see when I visit these schools. But that is a real issue for Chinese parents, to see their kids die like this." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "gaokao-childhood-and-exit-004", "text": "The reform section complicates the moral picture further. Jiang says reform is not blocked because people adore the present arrangement. It is blocked because poorer families still see gaokao as their only real ladder upward. Wealthy parents can exit. Grassroots parents cannot. So when elites talk about reducing tests and increasing freedom, many hear not liberation but sabotage of the only route they still trust. Teachers get trapped the same way. They want the best for students, but the system still measures success through test performance, and nobody wants to be the one whose class falls behind.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 787.8, "end": 831.94, "time_label": "13:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "-well -off Chinese to rise in the Chinese system. So if they're reforming the Gaokao, and they're a lot... they want the change with the Gaokao, Gaokao works, that is fundamentally destabilizing from the perspective of..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 840.3, "end": 898.24, "time_label": "14:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well, I mean, most teachers that I know, most teachers that I've interviewed and who I've met want the best possible future for their students. That's why they enter the teaching profession. That's their pride as teachi..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "segment_id": "seg-0024", "start": 898.44, "end": 925.84, "time_label": "14:58", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "even though from the top and from Beijing, from very wealthy parents and from top educators, there's this real push for education reform in China, at the grassroots level, there's a lot of concern, there's a lot of skep..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ], "start": 476, "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 476.67, "end": 494.37, "time_label": "7:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "It's also a very high pressure system. There is an exam system here called Gaokao, which is the university entrance exam across the country and everything is geared, as you say, from kindergarten upwards to getting good..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 787.8, "end": 831.94, "time_label": "13:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "-well -off Chinese to rise in the Chinese system. So if they're reforming the Gaokao, and they're a lot... they want the change with the Gaokao, Gaokao works, that is fundamentally destabilizing from the perspective of..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "segment_id": "seg-0024", "start": 898.44, "end": 925.84, "time_label": "14:58", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "even though from the top and from Beijing, from very wealthy parents and from top educators, there's this real push for education reform in China, at the grassroots level, there's a lot of concern, there's a lot of skep..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "segment_id": "seg-0033", "start": 1233.2, "end": 1238.2, "time_label": "20:33", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So I don't think this is a marriage made in heaven. I think there's a problem. There's some real serious issues that we need to look at." } ] }, { "id": "abroad-is-not-a-panacea", "heading": "Study Abroad Exports The Contradiction Instead Of Solving It", "time_range": "15:26-24:22", "summary": "The overseas-study section treats American higher education and Chinese parental aspiration as complementary distortions rather than as a clean rescue route.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "abroad-is-not-a-panacea-001", "text": "Once the interview turns to foreign study, Jiang widens the paradox again. Parents imagine that if they spend enough money and move the child overseas, the Chinese pressure system disappears and success follows automatically. He mocks the fantasy directly: the child goes abroad, gets into Yale or Harvard, becomes Steve Jobs, wins a Nobel Prize. But the deeper problem is that students trained not to question, not to stand out, and not to think independently often reach American classrooms unable to adapt to the very traits those classrooms demand.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027" ], "marks": [ { "text": "become Steve Jobs, and win a Nobel Prize", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 926.2, "end": 941.82, "time_label": "15:26", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "As you mentioned earlier, many Chinese students do head abroad. The number going to study abroad has tripled in a decade. What sort of problems do you see Chinese students facing when they go outside China to study, par..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "abroad-is-not-a-panacea-002", "text": "This is why he says the China-America education marriage is not made in heaven but in hell. The outbound students are often not the strongest products of the Chinese system but the students who could not get into its most prestigious institutions. Meanwhile, American state universities, squeezed for money, recruit them aggressively because they can pay far more than local students. The result is a transaction that suits budgets and fantasies more than it suits learning.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033" ], "marks": [ { "text": "it's a marriage made in hell", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "segment_id": "seg-0030", "start": 1096.65, "end": 1116.43, "time_label": "18:16", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "This move of these students that go abroad, it would seem to be a marriage made in heaven. You've got students in China who want to pay money and who want to get a good education in a prestigious University abroad, and..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1176.16, "end": 1232.64, "time_label": "19:36", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But the problem is... The problem is that these schools are not equipped to deal with Chinese students. So I mean, I visit these schools and these Chinese students go to America and they're given no support. So these st..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "segment_id": "seg-0033", "start": 1233.2, "end": 1238.2, "time_label": "20:33", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So I don't think this is a marriage made in heaven. I think there's a problem. There's some real serious issues that we need to look at." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "abroad-is-not-a-panacea-003", "text": "Jiang does not spare the American side. Universities use fee-driven agents, neglect whether the students are actually good fits, and drift away from their public mission into a corporatist mentality. That critique folds into his larger argument about East Asian test culture. Students produced by heavily algorithmic school systems can dominate examinations and still struggle in society, in management, in entrepreneurship, and in open-ended multicultural work. Test success, in other words, can conceal a creativity deficit rather than disproving it.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1340.54, "time_label": "21:51", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more a corporatist mentality. So I think that first and foremost these schools. I think that first and foremost these schools. Indiana, Ohio...." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "time_label": "22:44", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "time_label": "23:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now i..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ], "start": 926, "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 926.2, "end": 941.82, "time_label": "15:26", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "As you mentioned earlier, many Chinese students do head abroad. The number going to study abroad has tripled in a decade. What sort of problems do you see Chinese students facing when they go outside China to study, par..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1052.63, "end": 1094.57, "time_label": "17:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah. So what we're finding is that maybe like five, 10 years ago, the trend was, as you say, moving... The trend was these Chinese students... These Chinese students moving to America for college, but now parents are f..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1176.16, "end": 1232.64, "time_label": "19:36", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But the problem is... The problem is that these schools are not equipped to deal with Chinese students. So I mean, I visit these schools and these Chinese students go to America and they're given no support. So these st..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1340.54, "time_label": "21:51", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more a corporatist mentality. So I think that first and foremost these schools. I think that first and foremost these schools. Indiana, Ohio...." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "time_label": "23:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now i..." } ] }, { "id": "finland-empathy-and-peaceful-rise", "heading": "Finland Matters Because Early Care And Empathy Scale Better Than Fear", "time_range": "24:22-29:43", "summary": "The closing sequence moves from Finland's early-childhood model to empathy as the missing educational and civilizational capacity in contemporary China.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "paragraphs": [ { "id": "finland-empathy-and-peaceful-rise-001", "text": "The Finland turn matters because it relocates educational success away from elite exams and toward the beginning of life. Jiang says Finland performs well because it invests in children early, with free public daycare and well-educated teachers from infancy onward. He even argues that this is cheaper than the Chinese habit of spending years retraining graduates after college because employers discover too late that formal achievement did not produce workplace capacity.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] }, { "id": "finland-empathy-and-peaceful-rise-002", "text": "But the real reason Finland interests him is not only daycare. It is empathy. Finnish children, he says, are taught to name it and practice it. Chinese children are not. He pushes the contrast too hard in places, but the argumentative point is clear: if a society only builds strong feeling inside kinship and guanxi networks, then strangers remain morally thin, social trust stays weak, and a great deal of public life becomes brittle. That is why he links empathy not just to kindness but to innovation, social glue, and national development.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048" ], "marks": [ { "text": "Empathy is the ability to put yourself in other person's shoes", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1587.24, "end": 1605.44, "time_label": "26:27", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But it's a very different mentality. The mentality in Finland is how can we make sure that each of our kids is empowered to do well in life. Whereas in China it's basically the rich looking out for themselves and basica..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people yo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "id": "finland-empathy-and-peaceful-rise-003", "text": "The last move is geopolitical. Jiang says the future global workplace will require people who can work with and even manage across cultures. A China that remains a black box to others, and that cannot understand how outsiders think, will struggle in that world. So the educational question ends where the interview began to hint it would end: not at test scores but at the kind of society and kind of rise a school system makes possible. Empathy is the final answer because without it, power scales faster than understanding.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "marks": [ { "text": "China right now is considered a black box", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "text": "China's rise is as smooth and as peaceful as possible", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. 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Whereas in China it's basically the rich looking out for themselves and basica..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people yo..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ] } ], "questions": [ { "id": "q-pisa-fear", "question": "Should educators outside China really be worried about Shanghai topping PISA, or is this mostly fear-mongering?", "asker": "Fergus Thompson", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "answer": "Jiang says the fear is exaggerated by media panic, but it is not empty. Chinese schools still produce serious technical focus and teacher respect, even if Shanghai is not representative of all China and even if the deeper system remains flawed.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 183.42, "end": 192.16, "time_label": "3:03", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Do you feel that these concerns are worth paying attention to? Is it something that educators in the rest of the world need to be worried about?" } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says the fear is exaggerated by media panic, but it is not empty. Chinese schools still produce serious technical focus and teacher respect, even if Shanghai is not representative of all China and even if the deeper system remains flawed.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 262.96, "end": 293.26, "time_label": "4:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There's a respect for teachers. That doesn't really exist anymore in North America or in Europe. And kids love math. They love the sciences. A lot of engineers in the future for the global economy are going to reproduce..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 311.64, "end": 363.32, "time_label": "5:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that's a great point. I think that right now in China, because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people, it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people. You're going to have a wide dispa..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "id": "q-gaokao-pressure", "question": "If the gaokao is so central, what kind of pressure does it place on students, parents, and teachers?", "asker": "Fergus Thompson", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013" ], "answer": "Jiang says the gaokao looks fair as an allocator of scarce opportunity, but because it becomes the measure of a child's future, it creates testing, nagging, and stress from the earliest years and amounts to a death of childhood.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 476.67, "end": 494.37, "time_label": "7:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "It's also a very high pressure system. There is an exam system here called Gaokao, which is the university entrance exam across the country and everything is geared, as you say, from kindergarten upwards to getting good..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says the gaokao looks fair as an allocator of scarce opportunity, but because it becomes the measure of a child's future, it creates testing, nagging, and stress from the earliest years and amounts to a death of childhood.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "id": "q-why-send-kids-abroad", "question": "If the Chinese system performs so well, why are more and more Chinese parents sending their children abroad?", "asker": "Fergus Thompson", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0015" ], "answer": "Jiang says this is the central paradox: public prestige after PISA coexists with private fear that the system is damaging the family's only child by crushing curiosity, creativity, imagination, and empathy.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 567.77, "end": 579.95, "time_label": "9:27", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "If the Chinese system is doing so well on an international scale, why are more and more Chinese parents sending their kids abroad, not only to study at university, but now in increasing numbers in high schools in North..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says this is the central paradox: public prestige after PISA coexists with private fear that the system is damaging the family's only child by crushing curiosity, creativity, imagination, and empathy.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 695.88, "end": 704.86, "time_label": "11:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And it was really heartbreaking for me to see when I visit these schools. But that is a real issue for Chinese parents, to see their kids die like this." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "id": "q-study-abroad-problems", "question": "What problems do Chinese students face when they go abroad to study, especially in North America?", "asker": "Fergus Thompson", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025" ], "answer": "Jiang says parents often imagine overseas study as a panacea, but students shaped by the Chinese system can struggle badly in classrooms that expect them to ask questions, stand out, and think independently.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 926.2, "end": 941.82, "time_label": "15:26", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "As you mentioned earlier, many Chinese students do head abroad. The number going to study abroad has tripled in a decade. What sort of problems do you see Chinese students facing when they go outside China to study, par..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says parents often imagine overseas study as a panacea, but students shaped by the Chinese system can struggle badly in classrooms that expect them to ask questions, stand out, and think independently.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1052.63, "end": 1094.57, "time_label": "17:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah. So what we're finding is that maybe like five, 10 years ago, the trend was, as you say, moving... The trend was these Chinese students... These Chinese students moving to America for college, but now parents are f..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] }, { "id": "q-finland-and-empathy", "question": "What can China learn from Finland, and what does empathy have to do with education?", "asker": "Fergus Thompson", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0046" ], "answer": "Jiang says Finland invests early in every child and teaches empathy directly, whereas China underinvests in early childhood and has not built the wider stranger-to-stranger trust that innovation, social cohesion, and a peaceful global role require.", "answer_refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1449.05, "end": 1461.99, "time_label": "24:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "One exception to that that ranking was Finland which seemed to do quite well in in these and I know that you visited the country is there anything that that that the Chinese education system could learn from Finland?" }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0046", "segment_id": "seg-0046", "start": 1605.44, "end": 1625.42, "time_label": "26:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Creative China in which you speak a lot about the about empathy and how empathy can lead to innovation. Something which the Chinese government has said is extremely important for the country to continue with its success..." } ], "answer_paragraphs": [ { "text": "Jiang says Finland invests early in every child and teaches empathy directly, whereas China underinvests in early childhood and has not built the wider stranger-to-stranger trust that innovation, social cohesion, and a peaceful global role require.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lo..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people yo..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [], "marks": [] } ] } ] }, "transcript": [ { "id": "seg-0001", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "start": 25.68, "end": 79.353, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Welcome to On the Level, broadcasting from the Blue Ocean Network studios here in Beijing. My name is Fergus Thompson. Every three years, the results from the PISA assessment, that's the Programme for International Student Assessment, come out to much media furore. In 2012, students from Shanghai scored top in the three subjects looked at, which are math, science and reading. And this was the second time in a row that Shanghai had triumphed. Indeed, Asian students or students from Asian countries tended to dominate the top six or seven areas of this. So are schools in China super schools? What really goes on in these schools? And should countries like the United States and indeed Europe as well be wringing their hands at the success of Chinese students while problems are emphasised in the educational systems in our countries? Well, to discuss this, I'm joined by an expert in the field, Zhang Xueqin. Zhang is a graduate of Yale University.", "word_count": 161, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-001", "start": 25.68, "end": 26.48, "text": "Welcome to On the Level,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-002", "start": 26.52, "end": 29.22, "text": "broadcasting from the Blue Ocean Network studios here in Beijing.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-003", "start": 29.4, "end": 30.58, "text": "My name is Fergus Thompson.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-004", "start": 31.08, "end": 34.24, "text": "Every three years, the results from the PISA assessment,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-005", "start": 34.44, "end": 37.92, "text": "that's the Programme for International Student Assessment,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-006", "start": 38.2, "end": 40.12, "text": "come out to much media furore.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-007", "start": 40.32, "end": 45.54, "text": "In 2012, students from Shanghai scored top in the three subjects looked", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-008", "start": 45.54, "end": 48.02, "text": "at, which are math, science and reading.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-009", "start": 48.18, "end": 50.08, "text": "And this was the second time in a row that Shanghai had", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-010", "start": 50.08, "end": 53.9, "text": "triumphed. Indeed, Asian students or students from Asian countries tended to dominate", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-011", "start": 53.9, "end": 56.38, "text": "the top six or seven areas of this.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-012", "start": 56.6, "end": 59.28, "text": "So are schools in China super schools?", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-013", "start": 59.48, "end": 61.32, "text": "What really goes on in these schools?", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-014", "start": 61.54, "end": 65.92, "text": "And should countries like the United States and indeed Europe as well", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-015", "start": 65.92, "end": 70.26, "text": "be wringing their hands at the success of Chinese students while problems", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-016", "start": 70.26, "end": 73.28, "text": "are emphasised in the educational systems in our countries?", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-017", "start": 73.7, "end": 76.18, "text": "Well, to discuss this, I'm joined by an expert in the field,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-018", "start": 76.28, "end": 77.28, "text": "Zhang Xueqin.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-019", "start": 77.42, "end": 79, "text": "Zhang is a graduate of Yale", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0001-chunk-020", "start": 79, "end": 79.353, "text": "University.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "a706889ba50b127f28554727bd765659f3e725ddf89d4af9576641b6ba31d8fa", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0001", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=25s", "time_label": "0:25", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0002", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "start": 79.353, "end": 118.84, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "He was born in China but emigrated to Canada with his family at a young age and was educated there. After college, he spent some time as a journalist in China and also as a UN official. He then moved back to China to work in education. He consults for Tsinghua University High School in Beijing, one of China's more prestigious high schools. And he has written a book called Creative China, in which he looks at the problem of creativity and innovation and indeed education in general in China. Zhang Xueqin, welcome to On The Level. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The PISA, Programme for International Student Assessment, can you tell me a little bit more about this and what it actually tests?", "word_count": 125, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-001", "start": 79.353, "end": 83.24, "text": "He was born in China but emigrated to Canada with his", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-002", "start": 83.24, "end": 85.46, "text": "family at a young age and was educated there.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-003", "start": 85.62, "end": 90.04, "text": "After college, he spent some time as a journalist in China and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-004", "start": 90.04, "end": 91.26, "text": "also as a UN official.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-005", "start": 91.52, "end": 93.52, "text": "He then moved back to China to work in education.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-006", "start": 93.86, "end": 97.22, "text": "He consults for Tsinghua University High School in Beijing,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-007", "start": 97.4, "end": 99.12, "text": "one of China's more prestigious high schools.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-008", "start": 99.32, "end": 101.92, "text": "And he has written a book called Creative China,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-009", "start": 102.14, "end": 106.56, "text": "in which he looks at the problem of creativity and innovation and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-010", "start": 106.56, "end": 108.28, "text": "indeed education in general in China.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-011", "start": 108.54, "end": 110.76, "text": "Zhang Xueqin, welcome to On The Level.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-012", "start": 111.18, "end": 111.84, "text": "Thank you.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-013", "start": 111.86, "end": 112.5, "text": "Thank you.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-014", "start": 112.5, "end": 112.88, "text": "Thank you.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-015", "start": 112.9, "end": 115.6, "text": "The PISA, Programme for International Student Assessment,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-016", "start": 115.76, "end": 118.14, "text": "can you tell me a little bit more about this and what", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0002-chunk-017", "start": 118.14, "end": 118.84, "text": "it actually tests?", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "ab42618b8642248ed2ae38a05b7f923ed4877de66b4ef8415883f7a4bdb3772f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0002", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=79s", "time_label": "1:19", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0003", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, the first in 2009 and the second in 2012, Shanghai has placed number one. And in fact, actually, most of the top spots are dominated by Asian countries. So right now, there's a lot of concern in Europe, and especially in America, because America didn't do very well on the PISA, that the future now belongs to China. It belongs especially to East Asia, because as Chinese kids and as East Asian kids are focused on learning STEM subjects like math and science, American kids are now just playing sports. They're on Facebook, too. They're not really focused on learning the skills they need to be global competitive in the future. So right now, there's a real concern that the future belongs to China.", "word_count": 158, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-001", "start": 119.2, "end": 122.16, "text": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-002", "start": 122.26, "end": 123.88, "text": "working with governments around the world,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-003", "start": 124.04, "end": 126.36, "text": "administer the Programme for International Student Assessment.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-004", "start": 126.84, "end": 130.4, "text": "And it's a test of a nation's education system.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-005", "start": 130.66, "end": 133.86, "text": "And for the past two PISAs,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-006", "start": 133.86, "end": 136.76, "text": "the first in 2009 and the second in 2012,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-007", "start": 137.26, "end": 139.64, "text": "Shanghai has placed number one.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-008", "start": 139.92, "end": 144.06, "text": "And in fact, actually, most of the top spots are dominated by", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-009", "start": 144.06, "end": 144.82, "text": "Asian countries.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-010", "start": 145.1, "end": 147.96, "text": "So right now, there's a lot of concern in Europe,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-011", "start": 148.12, "end": 152.04, "text": "and especially in America, because America didn't do very well on the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-012", "start": 152.04, "end": 155.94, "text": "PISA, that the future now belongs to China.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-013", "start": 156.04, "end": 158.78, "text": "It belongs especially to East Asia,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-014", "start": 158.98, "end": 164.34, "text": "because as Chinese kids and as East Asian kids are focused on", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-015", "start": 164.34, "end": 167.82, "text": "learning STEM subjects like math and science,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-016", "start": 168.1, "end": 171.4, "text": "American kids are now just playing sports.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-017", "start": 171.86, "end": 172.88, "text": "They're on Facebook, too.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-018", "start": 173.66, "end": 177.76, "text": "They're not really focused on learning the skills they need to be", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-019", "start": 177.76, "end": 179.26, "text": "global competitive in the future.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-020", "start": 179.46, "end": 182.92, "text": "So right now, there's a real concern that the future belongs to", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0003-chunk-021", "start": 182.92, "end": 183.22, "text": "China.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "f3ac14cd812cf629c1a685d103248eea1954eef05c78de649bd22e9d6e0e4ec7", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0003", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=119s", "time_label": "1:59", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0004", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "start": 183.42, "end": 192.16, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Do you feel that these concerns are worth paying attention to? Is it something that educators in the rest of the world need to be worried about?", "word_count": 27, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-001", "start": 183.42, "end": 188.22, "text": "Do you feel that these concerns are worth paying attention to?", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-002", "start": 189.16, "end": 191.48, "text": "Is it something that educators in the rest of the world need", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0004-chunk-003", "start": 191.48, "end": 192.16, "text": "to be worried about?", "word_count": 4 } ], "text_sha256": "816a6ec6f0b24e333cb0a25b49cac9fe977ef209b3236c70975656647b9c8de4", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0004", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=183s", "time_label": "3:03", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0005", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea that this is a wake -up call for American education, that this is really bad because Shanghai is number one, America's 23rd, America's way behind China. And I think that it became so, it drew so much media attention because media loves fear, right? Right. So there's an element of fear -mongering to the PISA scores. But there's also an element of concern because right now in America, everyone agrees that the American school system is dysfunctional. And the reason why is that kids are now becoming more and more disengaged from learning. And right now in China, if you go to any schools, Chinese kids, no matter what the issues are, they're really focused on learning. And there's a respect for teachers.", "word_count": 162, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-001", "start": 192.36, "end": 198.38, "text": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-002", "start": 198.58, "end": 202.78, "text": "when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-003", "start": 203.28, "end": 205.52, "text": "there was a meteor firestorm in the United States.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-004", "start": 205.72, "end": 211.36, "text": "And they called it America's Sputnik moment.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-005", "start": 211.78, "end": 215.44, "text": "And the idea that this is a wake -up call for American", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-006", "start": 215.44, "end": 220.66, "text": "education, that this is really bad because Shanghai is number one,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-007", "start": 220.82, "end": 223.72, "text": "America's 23rd, America's way behind China.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-008", "start": 224.3, "end": 227.74, "text": "And I think that it became so,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-009", "start": 227.84, "end": 232.42, "text": "it drew so much media attention because media loves fear,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-010", "start": 232.54, "end": 233, "text": "right? Right.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-011", "start": 233.28, "end": 237.38, "text": "So there's an element of fear -mongering to the PISA scores.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-012", "start": 237.7, "end": 243.56, "text": "But there's also an element of concern because right now in America,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-013", "start": 243.76, "end": 247.2, "text": "everyone agrees that the American school system is dysfunctional.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-014", "start": 247.24, "end": 251.56, "text": "And the reason why is that kids are now becoming more and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-015", "start": 251.56, "end": 252.88, "text": "more disengaged from learning.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-016", "start": 253.16, "end": 254.82, "text": "And right now in China,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-017", "start": 254.96, "end": 256.66, "text": "if you go to any schools,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-018", "start": 256.94, "end": 258.88, "text": "Chinese kids, no matter what the issues are,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-019", "start": 259.12, "end": 260.86, "text": "they're really focused on learning.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-020", "start": 261.06, "end": 262.36, "text": "And there's a respect", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0005-chunk-021", "start": 262.36, "end": 262.94, "text": "for teachers.", "word_count": 2 } ], "text_sha256": "1d28ab62fd7ea42a9641db897ed98a82433b466b49d76bfa121c527677b15f62", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0005", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=192s", "time_label": "3:12", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0006", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "start": 262.96, "end": 293.26, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "There's a respect for teachers. That doesn't really exist anymore in North America or in Europe. And kids love math. They love the sciences. A lot of engineers in the future for the global economy are going to reproduce in East Asia. So I think that, yeah, I mean, the issue is overblown. The Chinese school system isn't that much better than the American school system. But at the same time, the trend is that China is moving towards a better and better school system. And the United States is still, there's all the hang -wrangling going on in the United States right now.", "word_count": 104, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-001", "start": 262.96, "end": 263.26, "text": "There's a respect for teachers.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-002", "start": 263.28, "end": 266.3, "text": "That doesn't really exist anymore in North America or in Europe.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-003", "start": 266.54, "end": 268.5, "text": "And kids love math.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-004", "start": 268.68, "end": 269.46, "text": "They love the sciences.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-005", "start": 269.78, "end": 273.14, "text": "A lot of engineers in the future for the global economy are", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-006", "start": 273.14, "end": 274.5, "text": "going to reproduce in East Asia.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-007", "start": 274.74, "end": 276.46, "text": "So I think that, yeah,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-008", "start": 276.56, "end": 277.74, "text": "I mean, the issue is overblown.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-009", "start": 278.6, "end": 281.9, "text": "The Chinese school system isn't that much better than the American school", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-010", "start": 281.9, "end": 284.26, "text": "system. But at the same time,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-011", "start": 284.3, "end": 288.1, "text": "the trend is that China is moving towards a better and better", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-012", "start": 288.1, "end": 288.74, "text": "school system.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-013", "start": 288.82, "end": 290.2, "text": "And the United States is still,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-014", "start": 290.22, "end": 293.26, "text": "there's all the hang -wrangling going on in the United States right", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0006-chunk-015", "start": 293.26, "end": 293.26, "text": "now.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "13a44d848412e144ac42ecc70354580258558194e79e997f43ccae43c0dfb5df", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0006", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=262s", "time_label": "4:22", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0007", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "start": 293.76, "end": 311.32, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "There's something, just a curious point there. We're comparing countries like the United States and Sweden and the United Kingdom with Shanghai rather than China. But what I was wondering is, is the comparison going to be accurate? Because if you factored in 100,000 poorly funded Chinese rural schools, would you get the same sort of overall score?", "word_count": 59, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-001", "start": 293.76, "end": 296.58, "text": "There's something, just a curious point there.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-002", "start": 296.64, "end": 300.26, "text": "We're comparing countries like the United States and Sweden and the United", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-003", "start": 300.26, "end": 302.48, "text": "Kingdom with Shanghai rather than China.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-004", "start": 302.66, "end": 303.7, "text": "But what I was wondering is,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-005", "start": 303.72, "end": 305.28, "text": "is the comparison going to be accurate?", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-006", "start": 305.42, "end": 309.34, "text": "Because if you factored in 100,000 poorly funded Chinese rural schools,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0007-chunk-007", "start": 309.46, "end": 311.32, "text": "would you get the same sort of overall score?", "word_count": 9 } ], "text_sha256": "968bb85b3d97731c89afdc951ed38100517dff6d08126903d788d8b1f85a9ca6", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0007", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=293s", "time_label": "4:53", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0008", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "start": 311.64, "end": 363.32, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "I think that's a great point. I think that right now in China, because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people, it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people. You're going to have a wide disparity in China. Shanghai is one of China's richest cities. It is a coastal city, so it's access to, it's basically very cosmopolitan. It's very forward -looking. And it's a very, in terms of education resources, a very well -endowed city. Some of the best schools in China are in Shanghai. So you're right in that Shanghai is not representative of China. But at the same time, Shanghai has 20 million people. That's a lot of people. So if it's educating its students well, it's still producing a lot of future entrepreneurs, engineers to service the Chinese economy in the future.", "word_count": 141, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-001", "start": 311.64, "end": 312.64, "text": "I think that's a great point.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-002", "start": 312.8, "end": 314.98, "text": "I think that right now in China,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-003", "start": 315.16, "end": 318.36, "text": "because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-004", "start": 318.48, "end": 323.24, "text": "it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-005", "start": 323.24, "end": 326.8, "text": "You're going to have a wide disparity in China.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-006", "start": 327.02, "end": 329.24, "text": "Shanghai is one of China's richest cities.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-007", "start": 329.82, "end": 331.98, "text": "It is a coastal city,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-008", "start": 332.12, "end": 336.94, "text": "so it's access to, it's basically very cosmopolitan.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-009", "start": 337.18, "end": 338.78, "text": "It's very forward -looking.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-010", "start": 339.02, "end": 341.22, "text": "And it's a very, in terms of education resources,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-011", "start": 341.3, "end": 342.98, "text": "a very well -endowed city.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-012", "start": 343.2, "end": 346.42, "text": "Some of the best schools in China are in Shanghai.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-013", "start": 346.98, "end": 349.96, "text": "So you're right in that Shanghai is not representative of China.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-014", "start": 350.36, "end": 351.42, "text": "But at the same time,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-015", "start": 351.46, "end": 353.22, "text": "Shanghai has 20 million people.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-016", "start": 354.08, "end": 354.98, "text": "That's a lot of people.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-017", "start": 355.12, "end": 357.04, "text": "So if it's educating its students well,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-018", "start": 357.36, "end": 360.48, "text": "it's still producing a lot of future entrepreneurs,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0008-chunk-019", "start": 360.9, "end": 363.32, "text": "engineers to service the Chinese economy in the future.", "word_count": 9 } ], "text_sha256": "dddd96f7eb672bd4a46985a5d31e532091fcb6574fbe023b31d9fd8d62a98db4", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0008", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=311s", "time_label": "5:11", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0009", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "start": 363.54, "end": 373.62, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Now, you have worked in the Chinese educational system and you were brought up and educated in the Canadian system. What are the big differences between the two?", "word_count": 28, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-001", "start": 363.54, "end": 368.84, "text": "Now, you have worked in the Chinese educational system and you were", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-002", "start": 368.84, "end": 370.54, "text": "brought up and educated in the Canadian system.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0009-chunk-003", "start": 370.9, "end": 373.62, "text": "What are the big differences between the two?", "word_count": 8 } ], "text_sha256": "bb7fe0e910b455eda5cac6b9f7f058e62928582434e41f3b3662c2bab46aac81", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0009", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=363s", "time_label": "6:03", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0010", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids have access to a decent education. So there's a real emphasis on fairness and equity in Canada. Now, the great thing about Canada is that there's so much emphasis on equity that all the Canadian schools are the same. So it doesn't really matter which school you go to. And there's more emphasis on how you make the most out of your experience while you're in Canadian schools. So I think that's a great thing about Canada. China is a very competitive system. It's a very elitist, very competitive system. That sorts students from day one, basically. So you have the best elementary schools servicing or feeding into the best high schools, which then feed into the best universities. And it's", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-001", "start": 373.84, "end": 375.52, "text": "Thinking about it off the top of my head,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-002", "start": 375.58, "end": 379.14, "text": "I would say the big difference is that in Canada,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-003", "start": 379.26, "end": 382.08, "text": "we're very focused on equity and mobility issues.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-004", "start": 383.24, "end": 387.24, "text": "The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-005", "start": 387.24, "end": 388.8, "text": "have access to a decent education.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-006", "start": 389.24, "end": 393.44, "text": "So there's a real emphasis on fairness and equity in Canada.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-007", "start": 393.92, "end": 396.44, "text": "Now, the great thing about Canada is that there's so much emphasis", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-008", "start": 396.44, "end": 398.86, "text": "on equity that all the Canadian schools are the same.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-009", "start": 399.04, "end": 400.9, "text": "So it doesn't really matter which school you go to.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-010", "start": 401.02, "end": 404.04, "text": "And there's more emphasis on how you make the most out of", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-011", "start": 404.04, "end": 406.02, "text": "your experience while you're in Canadian schools.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-012", "start": 406.36, "end": 407.84, "text": "So I think that's a great thing about Canada.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-013", "start": 408.58, "end": 410.7, "text": "China is a very competitive system.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-014", "start": 410.78, "end": 412.96, "text": "It's a very elitist, very competitive system.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-015", "start": 413.24, "end": 415.68, "text": "That sorts students from day one,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0010-chunk-016", "start": 415.82, "end": 422.1, "text": "basically. 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You don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six.", "word_count": 173, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-001", "start": 427.71, "end": 430.03, "text": "a very unfair system because,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-002", "start": 430.15, "end": 433.19, "text": "you know, the development trajectory of kids,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-003", "start": 433.37, "end": 435.97, "text": "of any adult, it's not a linear trajectory.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-004", "start": 436.33, "end": 438.61, "text": "You don't know how a kid is going to perform at age", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-005", "start": 438.61, "end": 441.31, "text": "18 based on his test scores at age six.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-006", "start": 441.65, "end": 443.29, "text": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-007", "start": 443.29, "end": 443.29, "text": "age 18 based on his test scores at age six.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-008", "start": 443.31, "end": 444.03, "text": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-009", "start": 444.03, "end": 450.31, "text": "age 18 based on his test scores at age six.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-010", "start": 452.65, "end": 454.79, "text": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-011", "start": 454.79, "end": 456.35, "text": "age 18 based on his test scores at age six.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-012", "start": 456.35, "end": 456.35, "text": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-013", "start": 456.35, "end": 457.07, "text": "age 18 based on his test scores at age six.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-014", "start": 457.07, "end": 457.07, "text": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-015", "start": 457.07, "end": 459.71, "text": "age 18 based on his test scores at age six.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-016", "start": 460.05, "end": 462.93, "text": "And you don't know how a kid is going", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-017", "start": 462.93, "end": 463.27, "text": "to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0011-chunk-018", "start": 463.27, "end": 463.668, "text": "six.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "385e9c4b8223663c567053f319c4ee2e843b3315c853d0f5474b4074c96a744a", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0011", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=427s", "time_label": "7:07", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0012", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "start": 463.668, "end": 476.43, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. So, it's a really unfair, elitist system.", "word_count": 29, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-001", "start": 463.668, "end": 468.05, "text": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-002", "start": 468.05, "end": 472.07, "text": "at age 18 based on his test scores at age six.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-003", "start": 472.07, "end": 474.77, "text": "So, it's a really unfair,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0012-chunk-004", "start": 475.09, "end": 476.43, "text": "elitist system.", "word_count": 2 } ], "text_sha256": "069b239b4346099507d1051f72395a4f06ae8a34e2e4a62f59b7c6023d762eeb", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0012", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=463s", "time_label": "7:43", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0013", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "start": 476.67, "end": 494.37, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "It's also a very high pressure system. There is an exam system here called Gaokao, which is the university entrance exam across the country and everything is geared, as you say, from kindergarten upwards to getting good marks in this exam. What about this exam? What are the pressures like on students and, indeed, on parents and teachers?", "word_count": 58, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-001", "start": 476.67, "end": 478.83, "text": "It's also a very high pressure system.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-002", "start": 479.09, "end": 481.33, "text": "There is an exam system here called Gaokao,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-003", "start": 481.43, "end": 484.55, "text": "which is the university entrance exam across the country and everything is", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-004", "start": 484.55, "end": 488.25, "text": "geared, as you say, from kindergarten upwards to getting good marks in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-005", "start": 488.25, "end": 488.63, "text": "this exam.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-006", "start": 488.99, "end": 490.39, "text": "What about this exam?", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-007", "start": 490.49, "end": 492.93, "text": "What are the pressures like on students and,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0013-chunk-008", "start": 492.95, "end": 494.37, "text": "indeed, on parents and teachers?", "word_count": 5 } ], "text_sha256": "d57c6bffed445dc2dd0711a88f2ba117948a7ca3acba0e7c2daf84633fab520d", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0013", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=476s", "time_label": "7:56", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0014", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on the Gaokao, that would determine which school the student will go to, which college the student will go to. Now, from a Chinese perspective, this is considered the fairest, most objective indicator of a student's academic performance and his ability to do well in college. So, from a Chinese perspective, the Gaokao, it's a fair way of, to basically allocate scarce education resources. But because these three days are so important, it's led to a very stressful, high -pressure education environment where, from day one, the student, and we're talking, like, three or four -year -old kids, are subjected to rigorous testing, extra classes, and constant nagging from parents and teachers. And there's really, because of the Gaokao, a death of childhood in China.", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0014-chunk-001", "start": 494.71, "end": 500.91, "text": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0014-chunk-002", "start": 501.17, "end": 503.25, "text": "so in June, early June,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0014-chunk-003", "start": 503.29, "end": 505.99, "text": "for three days, over the course of six subjects,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0014-chunk-004", "start": 506.21, "end": 512.25, "text": "a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on the Gaokao,", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0014-chunk-005", "start": 512.43, "end": 516.43, "text": "that would determine which school the student will go to,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0014-chunk-006", "start": 516.49, "end": 517.75, "text": "which college the student will go to.", "word_count": 7 }, { 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"video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world. But if you actually look at what's going on, there's an increasing amount of immigration in China where Chinese who can afford to, you're talking about middle -class and wealthy Chinese, they're choosing to opt for Canada, New Zealand, America, where the school system is less high -pressure, where the school system did not perform as well as the Chinese school system on the PISA. And what's going on, basically, is that right now in China, for the past few years, there's a real concern. There's a real concern among Chinese parents that the Chinese school system is actually hurting their kids. They have one child, and this child is basically all their future hopes and dreams. Whatever curiosity, whatever creativity, whatever imagination,", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-001", "start": 580.19, "end": 582.91, "text": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-002", "start": 582.91, "end": 584.81, "text": "system right now, because, as you say,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-003", "start": 585.13, "end": 591.63, "text": "because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-004", "start": 591.63, "end": 593.27, "text": "teachers and parents around the world.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-005", "start": 593.51, "end": 595.81, "text": "But if you actually look at what's going on,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-006", "start": 596.03, "end": 601.15, "text": "there's an increasing amount of immigration in China where Chinese who can", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-007", "start": 601.15, "end": 602.97, "text": "afford to, you're talking about middle -class and wealthy Chinese,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-008", "start": 603.17, "end": 605.71, "text": "they're choosing to opt for Canada,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-009", "start": 605.93, "end": 610.23, "text": "New Zealand, America, where the school system is less high -pressure,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-010", "start": 610.37, "end": 613.47, "text": "where the school system did not perform as well as the Chinese", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-011", "start": 613.47, "end": 614.51, "text": "school system on the PISA.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-012", "start": 614.67, "end": 616.21, "text": "And what's going on, basically,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-013", "start": 616.21, "end": 618.09, "text": "is that right now in China,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-014", "start": 618.11, "end": 619.31, "text": "for the past few years,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-015", "start": 619.47, "end": 621.15, "text": "there's a real concern.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-016", "start": 621.15, "end": 624.01, "text": "There's a real concern among Chinese parents that the Chinese school system", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-017", "start": 624.01, "end": 627.01, "text": "is actually hurting their kids.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-018", "start": 627.27, "end": 630.05, "text": "They have one child, and this child is basically all their future", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-019", "start": 630.05, "end": 630.79, "text": "hopes and dreams.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0016-chunk-020", "start": 631.09, "end": 634.63, "text": "Whatever curiosity, whatever creativity, whatever imagination,", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "114b6e5f7b14bc81e4cce4a2f7e67faefcd490edcbc82f5c7c17bfd1db2eeec6", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0016", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=580s", "time_label": "9:40", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0017", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in on classes. Grade one class, you have kids asking questions, raising their hands and asking questions. They're excited. They're enthusiastic about learning. They want to participate. And what the teacher does is basically say to the kid, don't ask questions. If you raise your hand, if you ask questions, you're a troublemaker. They take whatever enthusiasm for learning, whatever curiosity the kid has, and basically just, you know, shoves it out the door. So we look at grade two or grade three, three kids. They're all standing in line, very well -behaved, very obedient, and their eyes are blank. You look at grade one kids, their eyes are shiny, they're smiling, they're curious. 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But that is a real issue for Chinese parents, to see their kids die like this.", "word_count": 30, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0018-chunk-001", "start": 695.88, "end": 698.82, "text": "And it was really heartbreaking for me to see when I visit", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0018-chunk-002", "start": 698.82, "end": 699.28, "text": "these schools.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0018-chunk-003", "start": 699.52, "end": 703.36, "text": "But that is a real issue for Chinese parents,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0018-chunk-004", "start": 703.48, "end": 704.86, "text": "to see their kids die like this.", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "718597e0f094557f7783baa7fa41ef225d24911dbd965e05c422cffce021dcd9", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0018", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=695s", "time_label": "11:35", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0019", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0019", "start": 705.04, "end": 727.6, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Well, if parents, as you say, recognize this, and there seems to be some sort of feeling in society that this is not the way to go, is there some sort of idea of reform within officialdom here, within the Ministry of Education? I know you work on some pilot projects which are involved in a sort of an alternative way of looking at this and sort of avoiding the Gaokao system. 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It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to the public an education reform blueprint, calling for more individuality, for more creativity, for more freedom in Chinese schools, less homework for kids, more time to play, more time to explore their own interests. And right now, what educators are doing is trying to implement this policy at a grassroots level. What we're finding as educators is that there's a lot of resistance from parents. The reason why is that... Let's just say that you're not rich. You can't afford to immigrate or send your kid to a private school in England or to the United States. Well, Gaokao is really your only chance at a better life. 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So if they're reforming the Gaokao, and they're a lot... they want the change with the Gaokao, Gaokao works, that is fundamentally destabilizing from the perspective of most Chinese parents because they think that the elite is basically taking their... the elite is basically sabotaging their only way to increase their social mobility in China. So right now, there's so much tension and so much conflict going on in China because on one hand, you have educators trying to spread education reform, but you have parents trying to push back because they're worried that... that education reform will screw their kid over. Right.", "word_count": 112, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-001", "start": 787.8, "end": 791.22, "text": "-well -off Chinese to rise in the Chinese system.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-002", "start": 791.68, "end": 794.08, "text": "So if they're reforming the Gaokao,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-003", "start": 794.18, "end": 796.34, "text": "and they're a lot...", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-004", "start": 796.34, "end": 799.5, "text": "they want the change with the Gaokao,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-005", "start": 799.5, "end": 804.06, "text": "Gaokao works, that is fundamentally destabilizing from the perspective of most Chinese", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-006", "start": 804.06, "end": 808.18, "text": "parents because they think that the elite is basically taking their...", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-007", "start": 808.18, "end": 814.38, "text": "the elite is basically sabotaging their only way to increase their social", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-008", "start": 814.38, "end": 815.28, "text": "mobility in China.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-009", "start": 815.44, "end": 818.74, "text": "So right now, there's so much tension and so much conflict going", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-010", "start": 818.74, "end": 820.56, "text": "on in China because on one hand,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-011", "start": 820.56, "end": 823.98, "text": "you have educators trying to spread education reform,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-012", "start": 824.34, "end": 828.76, "text": "but you have parents trying to push back because they're worried that...", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-013", "start": 828.76, "end": 831.54, "text": "that education reform will screw their kid over.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0021-chunk-014", "start": 831.76, "end": 831.94, "text": "Right.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "8701a7f502a044b83c342790c2872f9c8ece525f3914a8216ff5060bd6cdae6b", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0021", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=787s", "time_label": "13:07", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0022", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "start": 832.02, "end": 840.08, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "How do teachers fit into this? Are they for the reform? Are they against it? Or again, is it a sort of a conflict within... within the body?", "word_count": 28, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0022-chunk-001", "start": 832.02, "end": 833.58, "text": "How do teachers fit into this?", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0022-chunk-002", "start": 833.68, "end": 835.28, "text": "Are they for the reform?", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0022-chunk-003", "start": 835.48, "end": 836.14, "text": "Are they against it?", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0022-chunk-004", "start": 836.2, "end": 838.78, "text": "Or again, is it a sort of a conflict within...", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0022-chunk-005", "start": 838.78, "end": 840.08, "text": "within the body?", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "987970659f269157b5d97dab0af2ee7c04a0030939e49a6e7ae4ade10428840c", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0022", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=832s", "time_label": "13:52", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0023", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "start": 840.3, "end": 898.24, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Well, I mean, most teachers that I know, most teachers that I've interviewed and who I've met want the best possible future for their students. That's why they enter the teaching profession. That's their pride as teaching professionals. So they feel that... As teachers, they really need to get their kids to focus on doing well on tests, on learning subject matter well, and on being able to regurgitate it in on... on tests because that's really what the Chinese system does. That's how you indicate you're successful in China by doing well on tests. So teachers, on one hand, you know, they sort of grew up in the gaokao system, so there's certain like emotional loyalty to gaokao. But on the other hand, they feel that as teachers... Not for me. Exactly. And they also... But they also feel that if they don't really emphasize testing in the classroom, their students are going to be left behind. 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So teachers, on one hand,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0023-chunk-013", "start": 878.58, "end": 880.9, "text": "you know, they sort of grew up in the gaokao system,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0023-chunk-014", "start": 881.2, "end": 883.8, "text": "so there's certain like emotional loyalty to gaokao.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0023-chunk-015", "start": 883.96, "end": 885.08, "text": "But on the other hand,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0023-chunk-016", "start": 885.08, "end": 886.42, "text": "they feel that as teachers...", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0023-chunk-017", "start": 886.42, "end": 886.88, "text": "Not for me.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0023-chunk-018", "start": 887.02, "end": 888.14, "text": "Exactly. 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The number going to study abroad has tripled in a decade. What sort of problems do you see Chinese students facing when they go outside China to study, particularly say in North America? Right.", "word_count": 44, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0025-chunk-001", "start": 926.2, "end": 929.94, "text": "As you mentioned earlier, many Chinese students do head abroad.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0025-chunk-002", "start": 930.06, "end": 933.32, "text": "The number going to study abroad has tripled in a decade.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0025-chunk-003", "start": 933.84, "end": 938.06, "text": "What sort of problems do you see Chinese students facing when they", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0025-chunk-004", "start": 938.06, "end": 939.96, "text": "go outside China to study,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0025-chunk-005", "start": 940.06, "end": 941.28, "text": "particularly say in North America?", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0025-chunk-006", "start": 941.6, "end": 941.82, "text": "Right.", "word_count": 1 } ], "text_sha256": "b49580e1d2308d63bb112109a551d8ced3ecb55cbb727669e6ca024eb1d4b047", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0025", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=926s", "time_label": "15:26", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0026", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United States for high school, this kid is going to get into Yale, Harvard, become Steve Jobs, and win a Nobel Prize. 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Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in these American schools, in these American colleges, the professor wants them to ask questions, the professor wants them to stand out, the professor wants them to be independent, show creativity, and they cannot emotionally adapt to sort of this environment. So the irony is that, yes, the Chinese school system is stressful for these kids, but you take Chinese students who are... Yeah. Who are indoctrinated in the system and you put them in an American setting, it's even more stressful for them because they become socially alienated from their professors and from their classmates.", "word_count": 136, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-001", "start": 997.11, "end": 1000.79, "text": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask...", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-002", "start": 1001.25, "end": 1002.27, "text": "Does not permit you to ask questions,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-003", "start": 1002.43, "end": 1003.81, "text": "doesn't want you to think for yourself,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-004", "start": 1004.17, "end": 1006.47, "text": "doesn't want you to stand out.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-005", "start": 1006.75, "end": 1008.71, "text": "So these kids go to America,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-006", "start": 1008.81, "end": 1011.95, "text": "and suddenly, in these American schools,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-007", "start": 1012.29, "end": 1015.09, "text": "in these American colleges, the professor wants them to ask questions,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-008", "start": 1015.25, "end": 1016.89, "text": "the professor wants them to stand out,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-009", "start": 1016.97, "end": 1019.11, "text": "the professor wants them to be independent,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-010", "start": 1019.21, "end": 1023.65, "text": "show creativity, and they cannot emotionally adapt to sort of this environment.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-011", "start": 1023.93, "end": 1025.85, "text": "So the irony is that,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-012", "start": 1025.95, "end": 1028.77, "text": "yes, the Chinese school system is stressful for these kids,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-013", "start": 1028.91, "end": 1030.91, "text": "but you take Chinese students who are...", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-014", "start": 1030.91, "end": 1033.59, "text": "Yeah. Who are indoctrinated in the system and you put them in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-015", "start": 1033.59, "end": 1037.07, "text": "an American setting, it's even more stressful for them because they become", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-016", "start": 1037.07, "end": 1040.77, "text": "socially alienated from their professors and", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0027-chunk-017", "start": 1040.77, "end": 1041.57, "text": "from their classmates.", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "a78ed4b74efe93a5c30a9877af79e0e9e9f4cb0c3cb36a1766d45931f923614f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0027", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=997s", "time_label": "16:37", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0028", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0028", "start": 1041.87, "end": 1052.39, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "How about if they're moving earlier, because there is a move towards people actually studying high school in the United States. Indeed, some schools in the United States are almost majority Chinese students. Do they adapt any better?", "word_count": 38, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-001", "start": 1041.87, "end": 1043.37, "text": "How about if they're moving earlier,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-002", "start": 1043.53, "end": 1045.85, "text": "because there is a move towards people actually studying high school in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-003", "start": 1045.85, "end": 1046.39, "text": "the United States.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-004", "start": 1046.51, "end": 1050.49, "text": "Indeed, some schools in the United States are almost majority Chinese students.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0028-chunk-005", "start": 1050.99, "end": 1052.39, "text": "Do they adapt any better?", "word_count": 5 } ], "text_sha256": "04b3f1ccf294ddfbd7d23d3fee292ec0af3f30bab3347d45a893e9ff017f085f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0028", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1041s", "time_label": "17:21", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0029", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "start": 1052.63, "end": 1094.57, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Yeah. So what we're finding is that maybe like five, 10 years ago, the trend was, as you say, moving... The trend was these Chinese students... These Chinese students moving to America for college, but now parents are for many reasons sending their kids to America for high school and possibly even for junior high school. A lot of families are also choosing to immigrate, and what we're finding is that these students adapt better to America than the Chinese students who go for college. So I know we're saying this is that we're finding that the Chinese school system, it's very effective at indoctrinating Chinese students. They are energetic in certain ways, so they shouldn't be forced in certain ways that does not permit them to engage different cultures.", "word_count": 130, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-001", "start": 1052.63, "end": 1056.45, "text": "Yeah. So what we're finding is that maybe like five,", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-002", "start": 1056.47, "end": 1057.83, "text": "10 years ago, the trend was,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-003", "start": 1057.97, "end": 1058.83, "text": "as you say, moving...", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-004", "start": 1059.27, "end": 1061.13, "text": "The trend was these Chinese students...", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-005", "start": 1061.13, "end": 1062.71, "text": "These Chinese students moving to America for college,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-006", "start": 1062.91, "end": 1069.01, "text": "but now parents are for many reasons sending their kids to America", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-007", "start": 1069.01, "end": 1073.11, "text": "for high school and possibly even for junior high school.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-008", "start": 1073.29, "end": 1075.55, "text": "A lot of families are also choosing to immigrate,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-009", "start": 1075.59, "end": 1079.19, "text": "and what we're finding is that these students adapt better to America", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-010", "start": 1079.19, "end": 1082.87, "text": "than the Chinese students who go for college.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-011", "start": 1083.37, "end": 1087.83, "text": "So I know we're saying this is that we're finding that the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-012", "start": 1087.83, "end": 1091.05, "text": "Chinese school system, it's very effective at indoctrinating Chinese students.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-013", "start": 1091.13, "end": 1091.71, "text": "They are energetic in certain ways,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-014", "start": 1091.97, "end": 1093.07, "text": "so they shouldn't be forced in certain ways that does not permit", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0029-chunk-015", "start": 1093.07, "end": 1094.57, "text": "them to engage different cultures.", "word_count": 5 } ], "text_sha256": "81babb9b78bc7f09ca5dad4ea49ac7e7d0898c9747af1edcb0174af72a7f9882", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0029", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1052s", "time_label": "17:32", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0030", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "start": 1096.65, "end": 1116.43, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "This move of these students that go abroad, it would seem to be a marriage made in heaven. You've got students in China who want to pay money and who want to get a good education in a prestigious University abroad, and you've got universities who need money and want high performance students. Right. So what's not to like about that? Right. So I think that...", "word_count": 66, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-001", "start": 1096.65, "end": 1098.99, "text": "This move of these students that go abroad,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-002", "start": 1099.13, "end": 1101.39, "text": "it would seem to be a marriage made in heaven.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-003", "start": 1101.51, "end": 1104.17, "text": "You've got students in China who want to pay money and who", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-004", "start": 1104.17, "end": 1108.19, "text": "want to get a good education in a prestigious University abroad,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-005", "start": 1108.43, "end": 1112.25, "text": "and you've got universities who need money and want high performance students.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-006", "start": 1112.47, "end": 1115.07, "text": "Right. So what's not to like about that?", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0030-chunk-007", "start": 1115.25, "end": 1116.43, "text": "Right. So I think that...", "word_count": 5 } ], "text_sha256": "2f439687783eead70c973e742477e315d7bc40ce4fd8be12c1aec386efbc5fbb", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0030", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1096s", "time_label": "18:16", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0031", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because they can't get to Peking and Tsinghua and Fudan and Jiao Tong. And the other thing is that these are not the best students going to America. These are probably students who failed out of the Chinese school system. So academically, they're not well equipped to do well in school for a variety of reasons. If you look at America, all these schools are actively trying to recruit Chinese students are state schools with very limited funding. So you're looking at our higher school system, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, California. Because of the recession right now in America, the state legislatures have cut the budget for higher education. So now they're desperate for Chinese students who can pay three times as much as local students.", "word_count": 166, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-001", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1119.73, "text": "I think that a lot of people believe...", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-002", "start": 1121.13, "end": 1123.99, "text": "made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening,", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-003", "start": 1124.07, "end": 1124.97, "text": "it's a marriage made in hell.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-004", "start": 1125.19, "end": 1128.91, "text": "And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-005", "start": 1128.91, "end": 1132.37, "text": "are going to America because they can't get to Peking and Tsinghua", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-006", "start": 1132.37, "end": 1133.67, "text": "and Fudan and Jiao Tong.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-007", "start": 1133.89, "end": 1136.31, "text": "And the other thing is that these are not the best students", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-008", "start": 1136.31, "end": 1136.91, "text": "going to America.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-009", "start": 1137.17, "end": 1143, "text": "These are probably students who failed out of the Chinese school system.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-010", "start": 1143.18, "end": 1146.94, "text": "So academically, they're not well equipped to do well in school for", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-011", "start": 1146.94, "end": 1147.7, "text": "a variety of reasons.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-012", "start": 1147.7, "end": 1149.86, "text": "If you look at America,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-013", "start": 1150.32, "end": 1155.5, "text": "all these schools are actively trying to recruit Chinese students are state", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-014", "start": 1155.5, "end": 1157.96, "text": "schools with very limited funding.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-015", "start": 1158.16, "end": 1160.38, "text": "So you're looking at our higher school system,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-016", "start": 1160.86, "end": 1164.1, "text": "Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, California.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-017", "start": 1164.76, "end": 1166.86, "text": "Because of the recession right now in America,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-018", "start": 1167.02, "end": 1170.54, "text": "the state legislatures have cut the budget for higher education.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-019", "start": 1170.92, "end": 1174.3, "text": "So now they're desperate for Chinese students who can pay three", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0031-chunk-020", "start": 1174.3, "end": 1175.84, "text": "times as much as local students.", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "a1418b4223eb8b9daf72507df90189e46bd1d4701ed7e1d02e6c0258d70f823e", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0031", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1117s", "time_label": "18:37", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0032", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "start": 1176.16, "end": 1232.64, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "But the problem is... The problem is that these schools are not equipped to deal with Chinese students. So I mean, I visit these schools and these Chinese students go to America and they're given no support. So these students might write essays. There's no feedback. And you can also make the argument, I think this is a very important argument, is that there's real dysfunction going on in the American higher education system. Because look at the stats. There's one trillion in student debt. Students are... Student debt right now is considered like one of the biggest problems right now in American education. Sixty percent of American students will not graduate from college. And sort of like, you know, American educators think that, oh, Chinese students, it's a temporary solution, it's a bandage to this problem. Like long term, there has to be a real restructuring of American higher education. And long term, there has to be a real restructuring of Chinese education.", "word_count": 164, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-001", "start": 1176.16, "end": 1177.68, "text": "But the problem is...", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-002", "start": 1177.68, "end": 1181.46, "text": "The problem is that these schools are not equipped to deal with", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-003", "start": 1181.46, "end": 1181.96, "text": "Chinese students.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-004", "start": 1182.2, "end": 1187.16, "text": "So I mean, I visit these schools and these Chinese students go", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-005", "start": 1187.16, "end": 1191.18, "text": "to America and they're given no support.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-006", "start": 1191.46, "end": 1192.94, "text": "So these students might write essays.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-007", "start": 1193.06, "end": 1193.88, "text": "There's no feedback.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-008", "start": 1194.1, "end": 1195.18, "text": "And you can also make the argument,", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-009", "start": 1195.3, "end": 1196.3, "text": "I think this is a very important argument,", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-010", "start": 1196.5, "end": 1199.84, "text": "is that there's real dysfunction going on in the American higher education", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-011", "start": 1199.84, "end": 1201.44, "text": "system. Because look at the stats.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-012", "start": 1201.82, "end": 1204.76, "text": "There's one trillion in student debt.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-013", "start": 1205.34, "end": 1206.3, "text": "Students are...", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-014", "start": 1206.3, "end": 1209.8, "text": "Student debt right now is considered like one of the biggest problems", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-015", "start": 1209.8, "end": 1211.6, "text": "right now in American education.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-016", "start": 1212.22, "end": 1217.76, "text": "Sixty percent of American students will not graduate from college.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-017", "start": 1218.08, "end": 1219.12, "text": "And sort of like, you know,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-018", "start": 1219.14, "end": 1221.06, "text": "American educators think that, oh,", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-019", "start": 1221.08, "end": 1223.48, "text": "Chinese students, it's a temporary solution,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-020", "start": 1223.62, "end": 1225.08, "text": "it's a bandage to this problem.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-021", "start": 1225.26, "end": 1228.46, "text": "Like long term, there has to be a real restructuring of American", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-022", "start": 1228.46, "end": 1229.04, "text": "higher education.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-023", "start": 1229.3, "end": 1230.22, "text": "And long term,", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0032-chunk-024", "start": 1230.26, "end": 1232.64, "text": "there has to be a real restructuring of Chinese education.", "word_count": 10 } ], "text_sha256": "2b8067e51df6ae5b9f365ef7480fa3789ee9bd92cdfd5a30c77a55d15d96d0fe", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0032", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1176s", "time_label": "19:36", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0033", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "start": 1233.2, "end": 1238.2, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "So I don't think this is a marriage made in heaven. I think there's a problem. There's some real serious issues that we need to look at.", "word_count": 27, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-001", "start": 1233.2, "end": 1235.84, "text": "So I don't think this is a marriage made in heaven.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-002", "start": 1235.92, "end": 1236.28, "text": "I think there's a problem.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0033-chunk-003", "start": 1236.3, "end": 1238.2, "text": "There's some real serious issues that we need to look at.", "word_count": 11 } ], "text_sha256": "1b57de7c083ac9c15b531e669eb8cbd84f7278205b80b7531f96dfcb896d805a", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0033", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1233s", "time_label": "20:33", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0034", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "start": 1238.36, "end": 1256.28, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "You wrote about the problems of American universities recruiting Chinese students. And you said that they could perhaps do it in a more effective manner, that certainly at the moment they were recruiting students perhaps with the wrong criteria. What could they do to recruit the students that will succeed?", "word_count": 50, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-001", "start": 1238.36, "end": 1244.06, "text": "You wrote about the problems of American universities recruiting Chinese students.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-002", "start": 1244.42, "end": 1248.38, "text": "And you said that they could perhaps do it in a more", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-003", "start": 1248.38, "end": 1251.64, "text": "effective manner, that certainly at the moment they were recruiting students perhaps", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-004", "start": 1251.64, "end": 1252.38, "text": "with the wrong criteria.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0034-chunk-005", "start": 1252.54, "end": 1256.28, "text": "What could they do to recruit the students that will succeed?", "word_count": 11 } ], "text_sha256": "9633165fb234dfba31c8dd5a0d1256b5aa68b98f0d3b46b01e74e6ac6331095b", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0034", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1238s", "time_label": "20:38", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0035", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possible with full paying Chinese students. And there is enough emphasis on are we recruiting the right students? And are we equipping these students to do well in these schools? So I think that these American schools are using agents in China. And these agents are basically headhunters. They make money based on the number of people, the number of Chinese students they can recruit to go to America. And they don't really care about does it make sense for these kids to go to America. And like the irony of this is that a lot of these schools who do the recruiting are public state universities founded on a mission to expand America's middle class, to expand the idea of democracy in America.", "word_count": 166, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-001", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1262.28, "text": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-002", "start": 1262.28, "end": 1263.72, "text": "Chinese students who want to go abroad.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-003", "start": 1263.72, "end": 1265.96, "text": "And you have American schools desperate for money.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-004", "start": 1266.08, "end": 1268.4, "text": "So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-005", "start": 1268.4, "end": 1271.52, "text": "many spots as possible with full paying Chinese students.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-006", "start": 1271.62, "end": 1275.5, "text": "And there is enough emphasis on are we recruiting the right students?", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-007", "start": 1275.6, "end": 1279.14, "text": "And are we equipping these students to do well in these schools?", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-008", "start": 1279.44, "end": 1285.28, "text": "So I think that these American schools are using agents in China.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-009", "start": 1285.42, "end": 1287.12, "text": "And these agents are basically headhunters.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-010", "start": 1287.22, "end": 1289.74, "text": "They make money based on the number of people,", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-011", "start": 1289.94, "end": 1292.06, "text": "the number of Chinese students they can recruit to go to America.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-012", "start": 1292.06, "end": 1295.46, "text": "And they don't really care about does it make sense for these", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-013", "start": 1295.46, "end": 1298.44, "text": "kids to go to America.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-014", "start": 1298.86, "end": 1301.3, "text": "And like the irony of this is that a lot of these", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-015", "start": 1301.3, "end": 1306.76, "text": "schools who do the recruiting are public state universities founded on a", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-016", "start": 1306.76, "end": 1308.6, "text": "mission to expand America's middle class,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-017", "start": 1308.8, "end": 1309.42, "text": "to expand", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0035-chunk-018", "start": 1309.42, "end": 1311.64, "text": "the idea of democracy in America.", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "f9a2e6259fc0094eef4c68a5b1806a4bbbf34d2b7c6a5dadb6ed6979859142f5", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0035", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1256s", "time_label": "20:56", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0036", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1340.54, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more a corporatist mentality. So I think that first and foremost these schools. I think that first and foremost these schools. Indiana, Ohio. They need to rediscover their public mission mandate. And then they need to take a serious look at who they're recruiting from China and whether or not these schools are equipping these students with the right skill set to succeed in America.", "word_count": 76, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-001", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1316.12, "text": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-002", "start": 1316.12, "end": 1317.38, "text": "a corporatist mentality.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-003", "start": 1317.8, "end": 1321.64, "text": "So I think that first and foremost these schools.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-004", "start": 1321.66, "end": 1322.04, "text": "I think that first and foremost these schools.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-005", "start": 1322.04, "end": 1323, "text": "Indiana, Ohio.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-006", "start": 1323.24, "end": 1327.18, "text": "They need to rediscover their public mission mandate.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-007", "start": 1327.72, "end": 1332.44, "text": "And then they need to take a serious look at who they're", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-008", "start": 1332.44, "end": 1336.24, "text": "recruiting from China and whether or not these schools are equipping these", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0036-chunk-009", "start": 1336.24, "end": 1340.54, "text": "students with the right skill set to succeed in America.", "word_count": 10 } ], "text_sha256": "958b24631fafd3b9587eb077a7097051d5b7f9323aa46b6084abc57220e85c51", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0036", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1311s", "time_label": "21:51", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0037", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "start": 1341.58, "end": 1364.18, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Now, I mentioned earlier that the number of students that are. The students from Asian countries dominated the top of those PISA rankings. Do you feel it's not perhaps just the administration. system in China that produces these high -scoring students but something to do with Asian culture and reverence for education. I feel that this is a very", "word_count": 59, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-001", "start": 1341.58, "end": 1345.36, "text": "Now, I mentioned earlier that the number of students that are.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-002", "start": 1345.46, "end": 1349.44, "text": "The students from Asian countries dominated the top of those PISA rankings.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-003", "start": 1349.78, "end": 1352.02, "text": "Do you feel it's not perhaps just the administration.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-004", "start": 1352.04, "end": 1356.94, "text": "system in China that produces these high -scoring students but something to", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-005", "start": 1356.94, "end": 1361.18, "text": "do with Asian culture and reverence for education.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0037-chunk-006", "start": 1361.78, "end": 1364.18, "text": "I feel that this is a very", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "e998b46598f551fc9211e4806a68dcebd77a590398252f616f9f21030a95fe3f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0037", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1341s", "time_label": "22:21", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0038", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you look at the SAT you look at any examination Asians if they participate tend to dominate and the reason why is that the the education system in East Asia Singapore South Korea Japan China it's all predicated on a student's ability to do well on tests it's not about real learning it's not about creativity it's not about giving students space to make mistakes it's all about doing well on tests that's a mentality that doesn't really happen in the West and that's what I'm trying to say. That's why you know we find that Chinese students they do very well in a school system where the tasks are algorithmic and the students don't really have that much space to", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-001", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1368.84, "text": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-002", "start": 1368.84, "end": 1373.96, "text": "that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-003", "start": 1373.96, "end": 1379.44, "text": "so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-004", "start": 1379.44, "end": 1381.76, "text": "just the PSAP you look at the SAT you look at any", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-005", "start": 1381.76, "end": 1386.08, "text": "examination Asians if they participate tend to dominate and the reason why", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-006", "start": 1386.08, "end": 1391.14, "text": "is that the the education system in East Asia Singapore South Korea", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-007", "start": 1391.14, "end": 1396.88, "text": "Japan China it's all predicated on a student's ability to do well", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-008", "start": 1396.88, "end": 1400.42, "text": "on tests it's not about real learning it's not about creativity it's", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-009", "start": 1400.42, "end": 1403.9, "text": "not about giving students space to make mistakes it's all about doing", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-010", "start": 1403.9, "end": 1408.7, "text": "well on tests that's a mentality that doesn't really happen in the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-011", "start": 1408.7, "end": 1410.24, "text": "West and that's what I'm trying to say.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-012", "start": 1410.26, "end": 1413.34, "text": "That's why you know we find that Chinese students they do very", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-013", "start": 1413.34, "end": 1421.3, "text": "well in a school system where the tasks are algorithmic and the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0038-chunk-014", "start": 1421.33, "end": 1423.35, "text": "students don't really have that much space to", "word_count": 8 } ], "text_sha256": "2c94459472fd93b3d6c1078cd329e3627b2ccfca9d2d65a516d7514e725c4892", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0038", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1364s", "time_label": "22:44", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0039", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now in recruiting good managers good and good entrepreneurs and basically creative thinkers but if you look at you know accountants computer programmers China has an abundance of these people.", "word_count": 67, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-001", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1427.59, "text": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-002", "start": 1427.59, "end": 1432.13, "text": "when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-003", "start": 1432.13, "end": 1435.69, "text": "environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-004", "start": 1435.69, "end": 1442.19, "text": "right now in recruiting good managers good and good entrepreneurs and basically", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-005", "start": 1442.19, "end": 1446.57, "text": "creative thinkers but if you look at you know accountants computer programmers", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0039-chunk-006", "start": 1446.57, "end": 1448.51, "text": "China has an abundance of these people.", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "ae2f47883b72fb540b1a33d90a27168eb66410f67c18fa15861b7cfc031d8035", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0039", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1423s", "time_label": "23:43", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0040", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "start": 1449.05, "end": 1461.99, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "One exception to that that ranking was Finland which seemed to do quite well in in these and I know that you visited the country is there anything that that that the Chinese education system could learn from Finland?", "word_count": 39, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-001", "start": 1449.05, "end": 1453.29, "text": "One exception to that that ranking was Finland which seemed to do", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-002", "start": 1453.29, "end": 1456.27, "text": "quite well in in these and I know that you visited the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-003", "start": 1456.27, "end": 1460.95, "text": "country is there anything that that that the Chinese education system could", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0040-chunk-004", "start": 1460.95, "end": 1461.99, "text": "learn from Finland?", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "b9cf12cd5d2471749acd36a0106dfaae56e863e68d3ae7e57d6a454eddae866f", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0040", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1449s", "time_label": "24:09", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0041", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. Not just PISA but also TIMS. Reason one is that there's a real emphasis on making sure each child is educated well so at sort of eight months of age a child can choose to enroll in a free public daycare program administered by well -educated teachers so and this is free so regardless of whether you're poor or rich you can have your child access this tremendous daycare system. And a lot of research tells us that the most formative years in a kid's life is basically from age one to age six. A lot of a lot of the neural wiring the child will need to succeed in life is basically formed during that age but you look at", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-001", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1464.93, "text": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-002", "start": 1464.93, "end": 1468.57, "text": "Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-003", "start": 1468.57, "end": 1470.01, "text": "international assessment.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-004", "start": 1470.01, "end": 1470.09, "text": "There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-005", "start": 1470.09, "end": 1471.99, "text": "assessment. Not just PISA but also TIMS.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-006", "start": 1472.58, "end": 1477.46, "text": "Reason one is that there's a real emphasis on making sure each", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-007", "start": 1477.46, "end": 1481.34, "text": "child is educated well so at sort of eight months of age", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-008", "start": 1481.34, "end": 1486.62, "text": "a child can choose to enroll in a free public daycare program", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-009", "start": 1486.62, "end": 1493.54, "text": "administered by well -educated teachers so and this is free so regardless", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-010", "start": 1493.54, "end": 1497.96, "text": "of whether you're poor or rich you can have your child access", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-011", "start": 1497.96, "end": 1500.12, "text": "this tremendous daycare system.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-012", "start": 1500.12, "end": 1503.3, "text": "And a lot of research tells us that the most formative years", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-013", "start": 1503.3, "end": 1506.96, "text": "in a kid's life is basically from age one to age six.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-014", "start": 1507.18, "end": 1510.56, "text": "A lot of a lot of the neural wiring the child will", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-015", "start": 1510.56, "end": 1515.18, "text": "need to succeed in life is basically formed during that age but", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0041-chunk-016", "start": 1515.18, "end": 1515.5, "text": "you look at", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "ceca9b103eb591999c7e48152518a0eaccb51e9cd0313ecb11ee741921f89b3e", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0041", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1462s", "time_label": "24:22", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0042", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0042", "start": 1515.5, "end": 1524.16, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "a place like China and you know if you're wealthy then you can actually send your kid to a very expensive daycare program but if you're not wealthy then your kid stays at home.", "word_count": 34, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0042-chunk-001", "start": 1515.5, "end": 1518.26, "text": "a place like China and you know if you're wealthy then you", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0042-chunk-002", "start": 1518.26, "end": 1521.74, "text": "can actually send your kid to a very expensive daycare program but", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0042-chunk-003", "start": 1521.74, "end": 1524.16, "text": "if you're not wealthy then your kid stays at home.", "word_count": 10 } ], "text_sha256": "67e8c3aa30765eac5dc5ae4ed0fc1d72a3852a9a5f7b74f9f063e27aec410a11", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0042", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1515s", "time_label": "25:15", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0043", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0043", "start": 1524.32, "end": 1532.96, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Sure but but Finland is a relatively rich country and it can't afford to do this. China has the problems of numbers and the number of children that come to the country. and the funds that it can put into it. That's a great argument and I", "word_count": 47, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-001", "start": 1524.32, "end": 1527.42, "text": "Sure but but Finland is a relatively rich country and it can't", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-002", "start": 1527.42, "end": 1528.06, "text": "afford to do this.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-003", "start": 1528.14, "end": 1530.1, "text": "China has the problems of numbers and the number of children that", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-004", "start": 1530.1, "end": 1530.1, "text": "come to the country.", "word_count": 4 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-005", "start": 1530.12, "end": 1531.74, "text": "and the funds that it can put into it.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0043-chunk-006", "start": 1531.76, "end": 1532.96, "text": "That's a great argument and I", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "cb25a781c2408cfc9ae78ff8c474c3aeaeae5a9fcdc5e5a7c8cc071bf8205c4c", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0043", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1524s", "time_label": "25:24", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0044", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lot of money is expended in the first two years when a student leaves college and enters the workforce. And the reason why is that employers find that fresh college graduates don't have the skills they need to do well in the workplace. So they need to spend they need to invest two to four years in retraining the student to do well in the in the workplace. That's a tremendous investment on their part. They have no choice because they need workers. Now but you can make the argument that you know what if the Chinese government were to were to invest a little bit of this money in the daycare system the results would be a lot better.", "word_count": 162, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-001", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1537.6, "text": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-002", "start": 1537.6, "end": 1542.6, "text": "in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-003", "start": 1542.6, "end": 1544.28, "text": "than in the university system.", "word_count": 5 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-004", "start": 1544.44, "end": 1546.78, "text": "What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-005", "start": 1546.78, "end": 1550.64, "text": "a lot of money is expended in the first two years when", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-006", "start": 1550.64, "end": 1553.38, "text": "a student leaves college and enters the workforce.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-007", "start": 1553.76, "end": 1559.38, "text": "And the reason why is that employers find that fresh college graduates", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-008", "start": 1559.38, "end": 1563.36, "text": "don't have the skills they need to do well in the workplace.", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-009", "start": 1563.66, "end": 1565.92, "text": "So they need to spend they need to invest two to four", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-010", "start": 1565.92, "end": 1572, "text": "years in retraining the student to do well in the in the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-011", "start": 1572, "end": 1574.96, "text": "workplace. That's a tremendous investment on their part.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-012", "start": 1575.08, "end": 1576.4, "text": "They have no choice because they need workers.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-013", "start": 1576.8, "end": 1579.62, "text": "Now but you can make the argument that you know what if", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-014", "start": 1579.62, "end": 1582.74, "text": "the Chinese government were to were to invest a little bit of", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-015", "start": 1582.74, "end": 1586.44, "text": "this money in the daycare system the results would be a", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0044-chunk-016", "start": 1586.44, "end": 1587.1, "text": "lot better.", "word_count": 2 } ], "text_sha256": "e3fe4dfdc47d42e752742fd48a29843dc5a8ebd2e0293c16d1780c61b2672285", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0044", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1532s", "time_label": "25:32", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0045", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "start": 1587.24, "end": 1605.44, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "But it's a very different mentality. The mentality in Finland is how can we make sure that each of our kids is empowered to do well in life. Whereas in China it's basically the rich looking out for themselves and basically ignoring the rest of society. Right you have written a book called", "word_count": 53, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0045-chunk-001", "start": 1587.24, "end": 1588.42, "text": "But it's a very different mentality.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0045-chunk-002", "start": 1588.7, "end": 1592.28, "text": "The mentality in Finland is how can we make sure that each", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0045-chunk-003", "start": 1592.28, "end": 1596.34, "text": "of our kids is empowered to do well in life.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0045-chunk-004", "start": 1596.48, "end": 1600.86, "text": "Whereas in China it's basically the rich looking out for themselves and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0045-chunk-005", "start": 1600.86, "end": 1602.74, "text": "basically ignoring the rest of society.", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0045-chunk-006", "start": 1603.02, "end": 1605.44, "text": "Right you have written a book called", "word_count": 7 } ], "text_sha256": "19a989c4e53f7f2fa9ff843a3fbcb0c671b66c63df484ffcf04adbb2dad9bc01", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0045", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1587s", "time_label": "26:27", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0046", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0046", "start": 1605.44, "end": 1625.42, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Creative China in which you speak a lot about the about empathy and how empathy can lead to innovation. Something which the Chinese government has said is extremely important for the country to continue with its successful path. Can you elaborate a little bit on that on empathy in China and what it has to do with education?", "word_count": 58, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0046-chunk-001", "start": 1605.44, "end": 1610.36, "text": "Creative China in which you speak a lot about the about empathy", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0046-chunk-002", "start": 1610.36, "end": 1613.04, "text": "and how empathy can lead to innovation.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0046-chunk-003", "start": 1613.18, "end": 1616.8, "text": "Something which the Chinese government has said is extremely important for the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0046-chunk-004", "start": 1616.8, "end": 1619.76, "text": "country to continue with its successful path.", "word_count": 7 }, { "id": "seg-0046-chunk-005", "start": 1620.88, "end": 1624.02, "text": "Can you elaborate a little bit on that on empathy in China", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0046-chunk-006", "start": 1624.02, "end": 1625.1, "text": "and what it has to do", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0046-chunk-007", "start": 1625.1, "end": 1625.42, "text": "with education?", "word_count": 2 } ], "text_sha256": "07382f2af482ef0bfe8dc438c0e3bd9456f0833d2c4fa0cd4505fc62014bf728", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0046", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1605s", "time_label": "26:45", "tags": [ "question" ] }, { "id": "seg-0047", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught the importance of empathy. You ask any kid in Finland who's like 10 years or older what empathy is and the person will say right away empathy is the ability to put yourself in other person's shoes. Can you not get the same answer from a Chinese school? Empathy, there's no word for empathy in Chinese. Empathy historically has never been taught or emphasized in China. China right now has a real problem with empathy. There's a classic story, classic news story that happened three years ago where this little girl she was six years old maybe she was run over by a car not once but twice. Bystanders came they just stood around her and they just looked.", "word_count": 158, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-001", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1627.14, "text": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-002", "start": 1627.9, "end": 1630.62, "text": "Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-003", "start": 1630.62, "end": 1631.36, "text": "Finnish school system.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-004", "start": 1631.68, "end": 1635.28, "text": "So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-005", "start": 1635.28, "end": 1637.66, "text": "kids were being taught the importance of empathy.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-006", "start": 1637.88, "end": 1641.46, "text": "You ask any kid in Finland who's like 10 years or older", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-007", "start": 1641.46, "end": 1644.5, "text": "what empathy is and the person will say right away empathy is", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-008", "start": 1644.5, "end": 1647.04, "text": "the ability to put yourself in other person's shoes.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-009", "start": 1647.48, "end": 1649.5, "text": "Can you not get the same answer from a Chinese school?", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-010", "start": 1649.92, "end": 1651.88, "text": "Empathy, there's no word for empathy in Chinese.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-011", "start": 1652.24, "end": 1657.74, "text": "Empathy historically has never been taught or emphasized in China.", "word_count": 10 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-012", "start": 1657.94, "end": 1661.14, "text": "China right now has a real problem with empathy.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-013", "start": 1661.36, "end": 1666.46, "text": "There's a classic story, classic news story that happened three years ago", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-014", "start": 1666.46, "end": 1669.52, "text": "where this little girl she was six years old maybe she was", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-015", "start": 1669.52, "end": 1672.2, "text": "run over by a car not once but twice.", "word_count": 9 }, { "id": "seg-0047-chunk-016", "start": 1673.04, "end": 1675.94, "text": "Bystanders came they just stood around her and they just looked.", "word_count": 11 } ], "text_sha256": "dcea46db8d4350160ad3b47e610cf091fbc9d644424b91e04c895333fda6dc59", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0047", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1625s", "time_label": "27:05", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0048", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people you don't know and so the sort of like social bonds the social glues that allow society to function don't really exist in China and that's why you know there's so much there's so many social problems right now right now in China. But in Finland empathy is really emphasized and that's why the society is so strong. But you know what empathy is also fundamental that if you want your student to engage other cultures and so I feel that in Finland right now they're being very smart about it because I feel in the future we live in a global workplace we were living and working in a global workplace it's a global economy we're going to need to produce students who", "word_count": 160, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-001", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1679.52, "text": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-002", "start": 1679.92, "end": 1682.92, "text": "Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-003", "start": 1682.92, "end": 1686.32, "text": "and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-004", "start": 1686.32, "end": 1690.02, "text": "little empathy for people you don't know and so the sort of", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-005", "start": 1690.02, "end": 1695.08, "text": "like social bonds the social glues that allow society to function don't", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-006", "start": 1695.08, "end": 1698.62, "text": "really exist in China and that's why you know there's so much", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-007", "start": 1698.62, "end": 1701.76, "text": "there's so many social problems right now right now in China.", "word_count": 11 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-008", "start": 1701.88, "end": 1705.94, "text": "But in Finland empathy is really emphasized and that's why the society", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-009", "start": 1705.94, "end": 1706.72, "text": "is so strong.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-010", "start": 1706.84, "end": 1710.38, "text": "But you know what empathy is also fundamental that if you want", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-011", "start": 1710.38, "end": 1714.22, "text": "your student to engage other cultures and so I feel that in", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-012", "start": 1714.22, "end": 1716.88, "text": "Finland right now they're being very smart about it because I feel", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-013", "start": 1716.88, "end": 1721.1, "text": "in the future we live in a global workplace we were living", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-014", "start": 1721.1, "end": 1724.52, "text": "and working in a global workplace it's a global economy we're going", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0048-chunk-015", "start": 1724.52, "end": 1727.52, "text": "to need to produce students who", "word_count": 6 } ], "text_sha256": "f89a75d800aa9f85405211b03a2a727f67ff6fd8f8fc4157e90d10bd46149707", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0048", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1676s", "time_label": "27:56", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0049", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "text": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna struggle with and that's why we have so many cases where there's so much misunderstanding going on between China and the rest of the world, because China really can't understand how the rest of the world thinks. And China right now is considered a black box to the rest of the world. So I think that as educators, we really need to educate a new generation of Chinese students who are able to have empathy and who are able to understand and respect other cultures. And that's a way for China to engage the rest of the world and make sure that China's rise is as smooth and as peaceful as possible.", "word_count": 150, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-001", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1729.96, "text": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-002", "start": 1729.96, "end": 1734.3, "text": "other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-003", "start": 1734.3, "end": 1737.68, "text": "Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-004", "start": 1737.68, "end": 1743.22, "text": "is gonna struggle with and that's why we have so many cases", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-005", "start": 1743.22, "end": 1746.54, "text": "where there's so much misunderstanding going on between China and the rest", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-006", "start": 1746.54, "end": 1751.32, "text": "of the world, because China really can't understand how the rest of", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-007", "start": 1751.32, "end": 1751.82, "text": "the world thinks.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-008", "start": 1752.36, "end": 1756.08, "text": "And China right now is considered a black box to the rest", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-009", "start": 1756.08, "end": 1756.4, "text": "of the world.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-010", "start": 1756.54, "end": 1757.9, "text": "So I think that as educators,", "word_count": 6 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-011", "start": 1758.18, "end": 1761.88, "text": "we really need to educate a new generation of Chinese students who", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-012", "start": 1761.88, "end": 1766.41, "text": "are able to have empathy and who are able to understand and", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-013", "start": 1766.41, "end": 1767.23, "text": "respect other cultures.", "word_count": 3 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-014", "start": 1767.23, "end": 1769.89, "text": "And that's a way for China to engage the rest of the", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-015", "start": 1769.89, "end": 1773.89, "text": "world and make sure that China's rise is as smooth and as", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0049-chunk-016", "start": 1773.89, "end": 1774.67, "text": "peaceful as possible.", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "2abddc359fca59d20f2c141ec115c9d39d92b113fbfd600755f139ac8b24ec3c", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0049", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1727s", "time_label": "28:47", "tags": [ "answer" ] }, { "id": "seg-0050", "source_ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0050", "start": 1775.17, "end": 1783.03, "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "text": "Well, Zhang Suixin, best of luck in your path to improving China's education system. Thanks very much for appearing on The Law. Thank you, Birgit.", "word_count": 25, "timed_chunks": [ { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-001", "start": 1775.17, "end": 1780.13, "text": "Well, Zhang Suixin, best of luck in your path to improving China's", "word_count": 12 }, { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-002", "start": 1780.13, "end": 1780.83, "text": "education system.", "word_count": 2 }, { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-003", "start": 1780.93, "end": 1782.17, "text": "Thanks very much for appearing on The Law.", "word_count": 8 }, { "id": "seg-0050-chunk-004", "start": 1782.27, "end": 1783.03, "text": "Thank you, Birgit.", "word_count": 3 } ], "text_sha256": "433df25bb3ef3d81c421ff74a0c1fe78cdaa295ca24b5330b903e6f7d6de7920", "episode_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/", "transcript_url": "/interviews/interview-irnhbw6w7we/transcript/#seg-0050", "video_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnhBw6w7WE&t=1775s", "time_label": "29:35", "tags": [ "monologue" ] } ], "interactions": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0002" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host frames Shanghai's PISA dominance, introduces Jiang, and asks what PISA actually measures.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson, with Jiang briefly thanking him inside seg-0002", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "segment_id": "seg-0001", "start": 25.68, "end": 79.353, "time_label": "0:25", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Welcome to On the Level, broadcasting from the Blue Ocean Network studios here in Beijing. My name is Fergus Thompson. Every three years, the results from the PISA assessment, that's the Programme for International Stud..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "segment_id": "seg-0002", "start": 79.353, "end": 118.84, "time_label": "1:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "He was born in China but emigrated to Canada with his family at a young age and was educated there. After college, he spent some time as a journalist in China and also as a UN official. He then moved back to China to wo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang explains PISA as a test of national education systems and says Shanghai's wins fuel Western anxiety that East Asia owns the future because its students stay focused on STEM.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0004" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks whether the wider world should genuinely worry about Chinese educational success.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0004", "segment_id": "seg-0004", "start": 183.42, "end": 192.16, "time_label": "3:03", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Do you feel that these concerns are worth paying attention to? Is it something that educators in the rest of the world need to be worried about?" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says the PISA panic contains fear-mongering, but also reflects a real contrast between American disengagement and Chinese classroom seriousness, respect for teachers, and STEM orientation.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 262.96, "end": 293.26, "time_label": "4:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There's a respect for teachers. That doesn't really exist anymore in North America or in Europe. And kids love math. They love the sciences. A lot of engineers in the future for the global economy are going to reproduce..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0007" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host challenges whether comparing whole countries to Shanghai is misleading because Shanghai may not represent rural China.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0007", "segment_id": "seg-0007", "start": 293.76, "end": 311.32, "time_label": "4:53", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "There's something, just a curious point there. We're comparing countries like the United States and Sweden and the United Kingdom with Shanghai rather than China. But what I was wondering is, is the comparison going to..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang agrees Shanghai is not representative of all China, but argues its sheer scale still makes its educational output economically consequential.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 311.64, "end": 363.32, "time_label": "5:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that's a great point. I think that right now in China, because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people, it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people. You're going to have a wide dispa..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0009" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks Jiang to compare the Canadian and Chinese education systems from experience.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0009", "segment_id": "seg-0009", "start": 363.54, "end": 373.62, "time_label": "6:03", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Now, you have worked in the Chinese educational system and you were brought up and educated in the Canadian system. What are the big differences between the two?" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang contrasts Canada's equity-oriented uniformity with China's elitist sorting machine, arguing that the Chinese system judges children far too early.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "time_label": "6:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids have access to a decent e..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 427.71, "end": 463.668, "time_label": "7:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "a very unfair system because, you know, the development trajectory of kids, of any adult, it's not a linear trajectory. You don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "segment_id": "seg-0012", "start": 463.668, "end": 476.43, "time_label": "7:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. So, it's a really unfair, elitist system." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks how the Gaokao shapes pressure on students, parents, and teachers.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 476.67, "end": 494.37, "time_label": "7:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "It's also a very high pressure system. There is an exam system here called Gaokao, which is the university entrance exam across the country and everything is geared, as you say, from kindergarten upwards to getting good..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang explains the Gaokao as a fair-seeming allocator of scarce opportunities that also creates a childhood-crushing pressure regime from the earliest years.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0015" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks why Chinese families keep sending children abroad if the domestic system supposedly performs so well.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0015", "segment_id": "seg-0015", "start": 567.77, "end": 579.95, "time_label": "9:27", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "If the Chinese system is doing so well on an international scale, why are more and more Chinese parents sending their kids abroad, not only to study at university, but now in increasing numbers in high schools in North..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang calls this the paradox of China's school system: public prestige after PISA coexists with affluent families fleeing a system they believe is harming their only child.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says Chinese primary schooling rapidly kills curiosity, empathy, and vitality, turning eager first-graders into obedient blank-eyed children within a year or two.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer continuing the prior question", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 695.88, "end": 704.86, "time_label": "11:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And it was really heartbreaking for me to see when I visit these schools. But that is a real issue for Chinese parents, to see their kids die like this." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0019" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks whether official reform efforts exist inside the Chinese education system.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0019", "segment_id": "seg-0019", "start": 705.04, "end": 727.6, "time_label": "11:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Well, if parents, as you say, recognize this, and there seems to be some sort of feeling in society that this is not the way to go, is there some sort of idea of reform within officialdom here, within the Ministry of Ed..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says reform is universally acknowledged as urgent, but grassroots parents resist it because Gaokao still looks like the only mobility ladder for families without exit options.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 787.8, "end": 831.94, "time_label": "13:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "-well -off Chinese to rise in the Chinese system. So if they're reforming the Gaokao, and they're a lot... they want the change with the Gaokao, Gaokao works, that is fundamentally destabilizing from the perspective of..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0022" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks where teachers stand in the conflict over reform.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0022", "segment_id": "seg-0022", "start": 832.02, "end": 840.08, "time_label": "13:52", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "How do teachers fit into this? Are they for the reform? Are they against it? Or again, is it a sort of a conflict within... within the body?" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says teachers want the best for students but remain bound to the test system emotionally and professionally, which leaves reform trapped in a communication and trust gap.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 840.3, "end": 898.24, "time_label": "14:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well, I mean, most teachers that I know, most teachers that I've interviewed and who I've met want the best possible future for their students. That's why they enter the teaching profession. That's their pride as teachi..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "segment_id": "seg-0024", "start": 898.44, "end": 925.84, "time_label": "14:58", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "even though from the top and from Beijing, from very wealthy parents and from top educators, there's this real push for education reform in China, at the grassroots level, there's a lot of concern, there's a lot of skep..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks what problems Chinese students face when they study abroad, especially in North America.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 926.2, "end": 941.82, "time_label": "15:26", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "As you mentioned earlier, many Chinese students do head abroad. The number going to study abroad has tripled in a decade. What sort of problems do you see Chinese students facing when they go outside China to study, par..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says study abroad is falsely treated as a cure-all, but Chinese students shaped by obedience and non-questioning often struggle to adapt to American expectations of independence and classroom participation.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0028" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks whether students who move earlier, for high school rather than college, adapt better.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0028", "segment_id": "seg-0028", "start": 1041.87, "end": 1052.39, "time_label": "17:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "How about if they're moving earlier, because there is a move towards people actually studying high school in the United States. Indeed, some schools in the United States are almost majority Chinese students. Do they ada..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says earlier movers and immigrant families adapt better than college-age arrivals, though he still treats the Chinese school system as deeply indoctrinating.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1052.63, "end": 1094.57, "time_label": "17:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah. So what we're finding is that maybe like five, 10 years ago, the trend was, as you say, moving... The trend was these Chinese students... These Chinese students moving to America for college, but now parents are f..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0030" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks why the China-to-America student pipeline is not simply a mutually beneficial exchange between fee-paying students and cash-hungry universities.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0030", "segment_id": "seg-0030", "start": 1096.65, "end": 1116.43, "time_label": "18:16", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "This move of these students that go abroad, it would seem to be a marriage made in heaven. You've got students in China who want to pay money and who want to get a good education in a prestigious University abroad, and..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang calls it a 'marriage made in hell': many outbound students are academically mismatched, U.S. state universities recruit them for revenue, and both sides are using the flow as a temporary patch over deeper educational dysfunction.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1176.16, "end": 1232.64, "time_label": "19:36", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But the problem is... The problem is that these schools are not equipped to deal with Chinese students. So I mean, I visit these schools and these Chinese students go to America and they're given no support. So these st..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "segment_id": "seg-0033", "start": 1233.2, "end": 1238.2, "time_label": "20:33", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So I don't think this is a marriage made in heaven. I think there's a problem. There's some real serious issues that we need to look at." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0034" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks how American universities could recruit Chinese students more effectively and with better success criteria.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0034", "segment_id": "seg-0034", "start": 1238.36, "end": 1256.28, "time_label": "20:38", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "You wrote about the problems of American universities recruiting Chinese students. And you said that they could perhaps do it in a more effective manner, that certainly at the moment they were recruiting students perhap..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says American universities are over-focused on filling full-fee seats via commission-driven agents and need to recover their public mission, recruit more carefully, and equip students for success.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1340.54, "time_label": "21:51", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more a corporatist mentality. So I think that first and foremost these schools. I think that first and foremost these schools. Indiana, Ohio...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0037" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks whether East Asian test success reflects not just school administration but a broader Asian cultural reverence for education.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0037", "segment_id": "seg-0037", "start": 1341.58, "end": 1364.18, "time_label": "22:21", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Now, I mentioned earlier that the number of students that are. The students from Asian countries dominated the top of those PISA rankings. Do you feel it's not perhaps just the administration. system in China that produ..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang answers that East Asian systems are driven by utilitarian test outcomes, which produce strong algorithmic performers but weaker managers, entrepreneurs, and creative thinkers in open-ended settings.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "time_label": "22:44", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "time_label": "23:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now i..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0040" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks what China could learn from Finland's educational success.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1449.05, "end": 1461.99, "time_label": "24:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "One exception to that that ranking was Finland which seemed to do quite well in in these and I know that you visited the country is there anything that that that the Chinese education system could learn from Finland?" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0040" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks what the Chinese education system could learn from Finland.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0040", "segment_id": "seg-0040", "start": 1449.05, "end": 1461.99, "time_label": "24:09", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "One exception to that that ranking was Finland which seemed to do quite well in in these and I know that you visited the country is there anything that that that the Chinese education system could learn from Finland?" } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0042", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang answers that Finland invests in universal early childhood care, empowering each child from the start, while China underinvests early and pays for the damage later in graduate retraining and social inequality.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0042", "segment_id": "seg-0042", "start": 1515.5, "end": 1524.16, "time_label": "25:15", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "a place like China and you know if you're wealthy then you can actually send your kid to a very expensive daycare program but if you're not wealthy then your kid stays at home." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lo..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1587.24, "end": 1605.44, "time_label": "26:27", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But it's a very different mentality. The mentality in Finland is how can we make sure that each of our kids is empowered to do well in life. Whereas in China it's basically the rich looking out for themselves and basica..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0043" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host pushes back that Finland is richer and smaller, so China may not be able to afford the same model.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0043", "segment_id": "seg-0043", "start": 1524.32, "end": 1532.96, "time_label": "25:24", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Sure but but Finland is a relatively rich country and it can't afford to do this. China has the problems of numbers and the number of children that come to the country. and the funds that it can put into it. That's a gr..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0046" ], "kind": "question", "summary": "The host asks Jiang to explain empathy and why it matters for Chinese education and innovation.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0046", "segment_id": "seg-0046", "start": 1605.44, "end": 1625.42, "time_label": "26:45", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Creative China in which you speak a lot about the about empathy and how empathy can lead to innovation. Something which the Chinese government has said is extremely important for the country to continue with its success..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang says Finland explicitly teaches empathy, whereas China has historically neglected it, leaving weak social trust and weak cross-stranger attachment that harm both society and education.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people yo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "kind": "answer", "summary": "Jiang closes by arguing that empathy is necessary for cross-cultural work, for a less opaque China, and for a smoother and more peaceful Chinese rise.", "speaker_attribution": "Jiang answer continuing the prior question", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0050" ], "kind": "monologue", "summary": "The host thanks Jiang and closes the interview.", "speaker_attribution": "Host Fergus Thompson", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0050", "segment_id": "seg-0050", "start": 1775.17, "end": 1783.03, "time_label": "29:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Well, Zhang Suixin, best of luck in your path to improving China's education system. Thanks very much for appearing on The Law. Thank you, Birgit." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "speaker_notes": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0002" ], "note": "The host's introduction, Jiang's thanks, and the first substantive PISA question are collapsed into one segment.", "suggested_speaker": null, "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0002", "segment_id": "seg-0002", "start": 79.353, "end": 118.84, "time_label": "1:19", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "He was born in China but emigrated to Canada with his family at a young age and was educated there. After college, he spent some time as a journalist in China and also as a UN official. He then moved back to China to wo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "claims": [ { "claim": "Jiang says PISA functions as a test of a nation's education system and that Shanghai ranked first in both the 2009 and 2012 cycles.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "temporal_scope": "Background explanation given on 2014-06-19 about the 2009 and 2012 PISA rounds.", "topic_tags": [ "PISA", "Shanghai", "education comparison" ], "claim_type": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says Western concern comes from a belief that East Asian students are concentrating on STEM while American students are distracted and not preparing for global competition.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "East Asia", "United States", "STEM", "youth culture" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues the American reaction to Shanghai's 2010 number-one finish was amplified by media fear-mongering even though it also touched a real anxiety about dysfunction in U.S. schooling.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "temporal_scope": "Retrospective diagnosis on 2014-06-19 about the 2010 reaction.", "topic_tags": [ "media", "fear", "United States", "education reform" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says Chinese schools still command respect for teachers and student focus on learning in ways that North American and European schools no longer do.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "student attention", "China", "North America", "Europe" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 262.96, "end": 293.26, "time_label": "4:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There's a respect for teachers. That doesn't really exist anymore in North America or in Europe. And kids love math. They love the sciences. A lot of engineers in the future for the global economy are going to reproduce..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues Shanghai is not representative of all China, but its population and educational resources still make its output strategically important for China's future economy.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative clarification on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Shanghai", "representation", "entrepreneurs", "engineers" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 311.64, "end": 363.32, "time_label": "5:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that's a great point. I think that right now in China, because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people, it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people. You're going to have a wide dispa..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Canadian education is organized around equity and mobility, with relatively even schools and an emphasis on making the most of the student's experience.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative characterization given on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Canada", "equity", "mobility", "school uniformity" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "time_label": "6:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids have access to a decent e..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He describes China as a competitive elitist system that sorts students from day one through feeder schools into top universities.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "China", "elitism", "sorting", "competition" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "time_label": "6:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids have access to a decent e..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues early test scores are a poor basis for deciding a child's eventual adult performance, making the Chinese sorting system unfair.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "child development", "testing", "fairness" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 427.71, "end": 463.668, "time_label": "7:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "a very unfair system because, you know, the development trajectory of kids, of any adult, it's not a linear trajectory. You don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "segment_id": "seg-0012", "start": 463.668, "end": 476.43, "time_label": "7:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. So, it's a really unfair, elitist system." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says the Gaokao is viewed in China as the fairest objective way to allocate scarce educational resources, even as it produces rigorous testing and parental pressure from early childhood.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Gaokao", "resource allocation", "pressure", "parents" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says affluent Chinese families increasingly choose Canada, New Zealand, and the United States because they believe the domestic school system is hurting their child's curiosity, creativity, and imagination.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016" ], "temporal_scope": "Current social trend on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "emigration", "middle class", "creativity", "school pressure" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Chinese schools kill a child's curiosity, creativity, imagination, and empathy within one or two years of entry.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis on 2014-06-19 based on Jiang's school visits.", "topic_tags": [ "curiosity", "empathy", "primary school", "childhood" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 695.88, "end": 704.86, "time_label": "11:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And it was really heartbreaking for me to see when I visit these schools. But that is a real issue for Chinese parents, to see their kids die like this." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says teachers discipline questioning itself, teaching students that asking questions marks them as troublemakers.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "temporal_scope": "Observed classroom pattern reported on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "questions", "discipline", "obedience" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says education reform is now seen across China as urgent and as something that will determine the country's future.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "education reform", "China's future" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says a 2010 education reform blueprint called for more individuality, creativity, freedom, less homework, and more time for children to play and explore their interests.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "temporal_scope": "Retrospective description on 2014-06-19 of a 2010 reform blueprint.", "topic_tags": [ "2010 reform blueprint", "individuality", "creativity", "freedom" ], "claim_type": "other", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues poorer or less mobile families resist reform because Gaokao still appears to be their only credible route to upward mobility and reform looks like elite sabotage of that route.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "temporal_scope": "Current political diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Gaokao", "social mobility", "parents", "elite distrust" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 787.8, "end": 831.94, "time_label": "13:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "-well -off Chinese to rise in the Chinese system. So if they're reforming the Gaokao, and they're a lot... they want the change with the Gaokao, Gaokao works, that is fundamentally destabilizing from the perspective of..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says teachers genuinely want the best for students but still double down on test training because success in the system is measured by exam performance and they fear students will fall behind otherwise.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "tests", "Gaokao loyalty", "classroom incentives" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 840.3, "end": 898.24, "time_label": "14:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well, I mean, most teachers that I know, most teachers that I've interviewed and who I've met want the best possible future for their students. That's why they enter the teaching profession. That's their pride as teachi..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the reform impasse is partly a communication failure between top-level reformers and grassroots families and educators.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024" ], "temporal_scope": "Current process diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "communication", "grassroots", "reform politics" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "segment_id": "seg-0024", "start": 898.44, "end": 925.84, "time_label": "14:58", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "even though from the top and from Beijing, from very wealthy parents and from top educators, there's this real push for education reform in China, at the grassroots level, there's a lot of concern, there's a lot of skep..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says many Chinese parents treat study abroad as a panacea that can turn an underperforming child into a Yale-or-Harvard success story and future innovator.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "temporal_scope": "Current parental mentality described on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "study abroad", "parents", "myth", "elite aspiration" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues the Chinese school system trains students to avoid questions, avoid standing out, and avoid independent thinking, which makes adaptation to American schools emotionally difficult.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "China", "questions", "independence", "adaptation" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Chinese students placed into American classrooms after being shaped by the Chinese system often become socially alienated from professors and classmates.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027" ], "temporal_scope": "Observed comparative pattern reported on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "social alienation", "professors", "classmates", "study abroad" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says the outbound trend has shifted over the prior five to ten years from college-only moves toward high school, junior high, and family immigration, and that these earlier movers adapt better.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "temporal_scope": "Trend description on 2014-06-19 covering roughly the prior 5-10 years.", "topic_tags": [ "trend", "high school", "junior high", "immigration" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1052.63, "end": 1094.57, "time_label": "17:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah. So what we're finding is that maybe like five, 10 years ago, the trend was, as you say, moving... The trend was these Chinese students... These Chinese students moving to America for college, but now parents are f..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues many Chinese students going to the United States are not top performers but students who failed to get into elite Chinese universities and are academically underprepared for success abroad.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "elite universities", "academic preparation", "United States" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says cash-strapped American state universities are aggressively recruiting Chinese students because recession-era budget cuts make full-fee international students financially attractive.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "state universities", "budget cuts", "recession", "recruitment" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says many American universities recruiting Chinese students are not equipped to support them, while American higher education itself faces student-debt and completion-rate problems that make Chinese enrollment only a temporary bandage.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "support", "student debt", "graduation", "temporary solution" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1176.16, "end": 1232.64, "time_label": "19:36", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But the problem is... The problem is that these schools are not equipped to deal with Chinese students. So I mean, I visit these schools and these Chinese students go to America and they're given no support. So these st..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "segment_id": "seg-0033", "start": 1233.2, "end": 1238.2, "time_label": "20:33", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So I don't think this is a marriage made in heaven. I think there's a problem. There's some real serious issues that we need to look at." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says American universities recruiting in China are too focused on filling as many full-paying seats as possible and not focused enough on student fit or support.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "recruitment", "full-paying students", "student fit", "support" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says many American schools rely on Chinese agents who are effectively headhunters paid by volume and therefore indifferent to whether overseas study actually makes sense for the student.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "temporal_scope": "Current process diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "agents", "headhunters", "incentives", "China" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues public state universities have abandoned their middle-class and democratic public mission in favor of a more corporatist mentality.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional criticism on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "public mission", "democracy", "corporatist mentality", "state universities" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1340.54, "time_label": "21:51", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more a corporatist mentality. So I think that first and foremost these schools. I think that first and foremost these schools. Indiana, Ohio...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says East Asian education is organized around outcomes and test performance rather than real learning, creativity, or giving students room to make mistakes.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "temporal_scope": "Regional cultural-educational diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "East Asia", "tests", "outcomes", "creativity" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "time_label": "22:44", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues Chinese and East Asian students do well in algorithmic school environments but struggle more when entering society, starting companies, or working on open-ended projects in multicultural settings.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "algorithmic tasks", "multicultural environments", "companies", "open-ended work" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "time_label": "22:44", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "time_label": "23:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now i..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says China has an abundance of accountants and computer programmers but a shortage of good managers, entrepreneurs, and creative thinkers.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "temporal_scope": "Current labor-market diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "managers", "entrepreneurs", "creative thinkers", "programmers" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "time_label": "23:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now i..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Finland performs well not just on PISA but on other international assessments because it emphasizes educating every child well from very early childhood onward.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative explanation on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Finland", "international assessments", "early childhood" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says Finnish children can enroll from about eight months old in a free public daycare system staffed by well-educated teachers regardless of family wealth.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional description on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "daycare", "public provision", "teachers", "equity" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues the most formative neural development happens roughly from age one to age six, making unequal early-childhood support in China a major structural disadvantage.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0042" ], "temporal_scope": "Developmental claim stated on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "neural wiring", "age one to six", "inequality", "China" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0042", "segment_id": "seg-0042", "start": 1515.5, "end": 1524.16, "time_label": "25:15", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "a place like China and you know if you're wealthy then you can actually send your kid to a very expensive daycare program but if you're not wealthy then your kid stays at home." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says China currently spends large sums retraining new college graduates for two to four years because employers find them unprepared for the workplace.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "temporal_scope": "Current labor-market diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "graduates", "retraining", "employers", "workplace skills" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues redirecting some of that later retraining expenditure into daycare and early-childhood education would produce better results.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "temporal_scope": "Policy argument on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "investment", "daycare", "policy", "returns" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He contrasts Finland's mentality of empowering each child with what he describes as a Chinese mentality of the rich protecting themselves and neglecting the rest of society.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative moral diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "empowerment", "rich", "society", "Finland" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1587.24, "end": 1605.44, "time_label": "26:27", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But it's a very different mentality. The mentality in Finland is how can we make sure that each of our kids is empowered to do well in life. Whereas in China it's basically the rich looking out for themselves and basica..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang defines empathy as the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes and says Finnish schools teach it explicitly from childhood while Chinese education has historically not emphasized it.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative cultural-educational diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "empathy", "Finland", "China", "definition" ], "claim_type": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says China has a serious empathy problem, illustrated by weak concern for strangers and by social bonds that function inside kin or guanxi networks more than across society at large.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048" ], "temporal_scope": "Current social diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "strangers", "guanxi", "social bonds", "China" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people yo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the future global workplace will require students who can not only work with other cultures but manage across cultures as well.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Forward-looking claim made on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "global workplace", "other cultures", "management" ], "claim_type": "prediction", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues Finland's emphasis on empathy better prepares students for that cross-cultural future, while China will struggle because it has not cultivated the same capacity.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative forecast on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Finland", "empathy", "China", "future" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says misunderstanding between China and the rest of the world persists because China cannot understand how the rest of the world thinks and is seen externally as a black box.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Current geopolitical-cultural diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "misunderstanding", "black box", "rest of the world", "China" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues educators should form a new generation of Chinese students with empathy and respect for other cultures so that China's rise can be smoother and more peaceful.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative future-oriented argument on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "educators", "China's rise", "respect", "peaceful rise" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "signature_moments": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "moment": "Jiang turns the PISA story into a civilizational fear that the future belongs to China and East Asia.", "source_phrase": "the future now belongs to China", "why_it_matters": "It gives the interview its opening geopolitical stake rather than treating test scores as a narrow policy issue.", "tone": "provocation", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "moment": "The American response to Shanghai's ranking is compressed into a Cold War-style panic frame.", "source_phrase": "America's Sputnik moment", "why_it_matters": "It shows Jiang reading the score reaction as symbolic national trauma, not just educational benchmarking.", "tone": "image", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "moment": "Jiang concedes Shanghai is exceptional while insisting that an exceptional city of 20 million still changes the global comparison.", "source_phrase": "Shanghai has 20 million people", "why_it_matters": "It preserves the scale argument that lets him admit the sampling problem without collapsing the larger China concern.", "tone": "reversal", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 311.64, "end": 363.32, "time_label": "5:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that's a great point. I think that right now in China, because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people, it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people. You're going to have a wide dispa..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010" ], "moment": "China is described not as a neutral meritocracy but as a pipeline that sorts children from their first school day.", "source_phrase": "sorts students from day one", "why_it_matters": "It captures Jiang's core critique that Chinese education is structurally hierarchical from the start, not just exam-heavy at the end.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "time_label": "6:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids have access to a decent e..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "moment": "The Gaokao does not just add stress; it kills childhood itself.", "source_phrase": "a death of childhood in China", "why_it_matters": "This is the packet's sharpest moral compression of Jiang's case against test-centered schooling.", "tone": "provocation", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016" ], "moment": "China's global PISA prestige is set against an internal exodus by the very parents who can afford to leave.", "source_phrase": "that's really the paradox of China's school system right now", "why_it_matters": "It preserves the contradiction between public admiration and private flight that drives the interview.", "tone": "reversal", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "moment": "The classroom ideal becomes a child standing obediently in line with blank eyes.", "source_phrase": "their eyes are kind of blank, kind of lifeless", "why_it_matters": "It gives Jiang's critique of schooling a memorable human image instead of an abstract policy complaint.", "tone": "image", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "moment": "A child asking questions is recoded from engaged learner into classroom troublemaker.", "source_phrase": "if you ask questions, you're a troublemaker", "why_it_matters": "This is Jiang's compact mechanism for how curiosity gets destroyed inside everyday teaching practice.", "tone": "reversal", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "moment": "Reform is not opposed because people love the old system; it is opposed because they think elites are sabotaging the poor family's only ladder upward.", "source_phrase": "sabotaging their only way to increase their social mobility", "why_it_matters": "It preserves Jiang's political reading of why obvious educational reform still stalls.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 787.8, "end": 831.94, "time_label": "13:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "-well -off Chinese to rise in the Chinese system. So if they're reforming the Gaokao, and they're a lot... they want the change with the Gaokao, Gaokao works, that is fundamentally destabilizing from the perspective of..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "moment": "The fantasy of study abroad is compressed into a parent imagining the child will become a Nobel-winning Steve Jobs by being shipped overseas.", "source_phrase": "become Steve Jobs, and win a Nobel Prize", "why_it_matters": "It captures the aspirational mythology Jiang thinks distorts the whole outbound-student market.", "tone": "image", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027" ], "moment": "A system that already stressed students at home becomes even harsher abroad because it leaves them unable to ask questions or stand out.", "source_phrase": "they become socially alienated", "why_it_matters": "This is Jiang's mechanism for why escape from Chinese schooling does not automatically produce liberation.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031" ], "moment": "The supposedly ideal China-America education exchange is renamed a marriage made in hell.", "source_phrase": "it's a marriage made in hell", "why_it_matters": "It is the packet's sharpest reversal and anchors Jiang's critique of both the Chinese and American sides of the pipeline.", "tone": "reversal", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "moment": "The recruiting pipeline is reframed as a cash market where universities and agents are optimizing seat-filling rather than student flourishing.", "source_phrase": "trying to fill as many spots as possible", "why_it_matters": "It sharpens Jiang's complaint that the overseas-study system is structurally misaligned before any student even arrives on campus.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036" ], "moment": "Public universities are accused of abandoning their public mission for a corporatist mentality.", "source_phrase": "forsaken their public school mission", "why_it_matters": "This turns a recruitment complaint into a broader indictment of American higher education's institutional drift.", "tone": "provocation", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1340.54, "time_label": "21:51", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more a corporatist mentality. So I think that first and foremost these schools. I think that first and foremost these schools. Indiana, Ohio...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "moment": "China's schooling machine is said to produce plenty of accountants and programmers but not enough entrepreneurs or creative thinkers.", "source_phrase": "China has an abundance of these people", "why_it_matters": "It condenses Jiang's distinction between test-efficient labor and genuinely innovative capacity.", "tone": "contrast", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "time_label": "23:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now i..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "moment": "Finland's educational edge is traced all the way back to free daycare beginning around eight months old.", "source_phrase": "at sort of eight months of age", "why_it_matters": "It moves the comparison away from exams and toward Jiang's deeper theory of early developmental investment.", "tone": "reframing", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "moment": "China is portrayed as paying for educational failure twice: once by underinvesting early and again by retraining graduates after college.", "source_phrase": "invest two to four years in retraining", "why_it_matters": "This gives Jiang a concrete economic argument for why early-childhood reform is cheaper than the status quo.", "tone": "causal-chain", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "moment": "Empathy is presented as both explicitly teachable in Finland and historically absent in China.", "source_phrase": "Empathy is the ability to put yourself in other person's shoes", "why_it_matters": "It marks the turn from institutional design into the moral psychology Jiang thinks innovation and social trust depend on.", "tone": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "moment": "China is described as a black box to the rest of the world because it cannot understand how outsiders think.", "source_phrase": "China right now is considered a black box", "why_it_matters": "It gives the empathy argument a geopolitical edge rather than leaving it as a soft educational virtue.", "tone": "image", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "moment": "Empathy becomes the educational condition for a smooth and peaceful Chinese rise.", "source_phrase": "make sure that China's rise is as smooth and as peaceful as possible", "why_it_matters": "It is Jiang's final compression of why schooling, social trust, and geopolitics belong in the same argument.", "tone": "culmination", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "predictions": [ { "claim": "Jiang says the future global workplace will require students who can not only work with other cultures but manage across cultures as well.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Forward-looking claim made on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "global workplace", "other cultures", "management" ], "claim_type": "prediction", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "models": [ { "claim": "Jiang argues Shanghai is not representative of all China, but its population and educational resources still make its output strategically important for China's future economy.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative clarification on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Shanghai", "representation", "entrepreneurs", "engineers" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0008", "segment_id": "seg-0008", "start": 311.64, "end": 363.32, "time_label": "5:11", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that's a great point. I think that right now in China, because China is such a huge country with 1.3 billion people, it's trying to educate basically 200 million Chinese people. You're going to have a wide dispa..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Canadian education is organized around equity and mobility, with relatively even schools and an emphasis on making the most of the student's experience.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative characterization given on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Canada", "equity", "mobility", "school uniformity" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "time_label": "6:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids have access to a decent e..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says the Gaokao is viewed in China as the fairest objective way to allocate scarce educational resources, even as it produces rigorous testing and parental pressure from early childhood.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Gaokao", "resource allocation", "pressure", "parents" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues poorer or less mobile families resist reform because Gaokao still appears to be their only credible route to upward mobility and reform looks like elite sabotage of that route.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021" ], "temporal_scope": "Current political diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Gaokao", "social mobility", "parents", "elite distrust" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0021", "segment_id": "seg-0021", "start": 787.8, "end": 831.94, "time_label": "13:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "-well -off Chinese to rise in the Chinese system. So if they're reforming the Gaokao, and they're a lot... they want the change with the Gaokao, Gaokao works, that is fundamentally destabilizing from the perspective of..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says cash-strapped American state universities are aggressively recruiting Chinese students because recession-era budget cuts make full-fee international students financially attractive.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "state universities", "budget cuts", "recession", "recruitment" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says many American schools rely on Chinese agents who are effectively headhunters paid by volume and therefore indifferent to whether overseas study actually makes sense for the student.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "temporal_scope": "Current process diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "agents", "headhunters", "incentives", "China" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says East Asian education is organized around outcomes and test performance rather than real learning, creativity, or giving students room to make mistakes.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "temporal_scope": "Regional cultural-educational diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "East Asia", "tests", "outcomes", "creativity" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "time_label": "22:44", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Finland performs well not just on PISA but on other international assessments because it emphasizes educating every child well from very early childhood onward.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative explanation on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Finland", "international assessments", "early childhood" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues the most formative neural development happens roughly from age one to age six, making unequal early-childhood support in China a major structural disadvantage.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0042" ], "temporal_scope": "Developmental claim stated on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "neural wiring", "age one to six", "inequality", "China" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0042", "segment_id": "seg-0042", "start": 1515.5, "end": 1524.16, "time_label": "25:15", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "a place like China and you know if you're wealthy then you can actually send your kid to a very expensive daycare program but if you're not wealthy then your kid stays at home." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues redirecting some of that later retraining expenditure into daycare and early-childhood education would produce better results.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "temporal_scope": "Policy argument on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "investment", "daycare", "policy", "returns" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues Finland's emphasis on empathy better prepares students for that cross-cultural future, while China will struggle because it has not cultivated the same capacity.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative forecast on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "Finland", "empathy", "China", "future" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues educators should form a new generation of Chinese students with empathy and respect for other cultures so that China's rise can be smoother and more peaceful.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative future-oriented argument on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "educators", "China's rise", "respect", "peaceful rise" ], "claim_type": "model", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "diagnoses": [ { "claim": "He says Western concern comes from a belief that East Asian students are concentrating on STEM while American students are distracted and not preparing for global competition.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "East Asia", "United States", "STEM", "youth culture" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues the American reaction to Shanghai's 2010 number-one finish was amplified by media fear-mongering even though it also touched a real anxiety about dysfunction in U.S. schooling.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "temporal_scope": "Retrospective diagnosis on 2014-06-19 about the 2010 reaction.", "topic_tags": [ "media", "fear", "United States", "education reform" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says Chinese schools still command respect for teachers and student focus on learning in ways that North American and European schools no longer do.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "student attention", "China", "North America", "Europe" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 262.96, "end": 293.26, "time_label": "4:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There's a respect for teachers. That doesn't really exist anymore in North America or in Europe. And kids love math. They love the sciences. A lot of engineers in the future for the global economy are going to reproduce..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He describes China as a competitive elitist system that sorts students from day one through feeder schools into top universities.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "China", "elitism", "sorting", "competition" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0010", "segment_id": "seg-0010", "start": 373.84, "end": 427.71, "time_label": "6:13", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Thinking about it off the top of my head, I would say the big difference is that in Canada, we're very focused on equity and mobility issues. The idea is that we want to make sure that all kids have access to a decent e..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues early test scores are a poor basis for deciding a child's eventual adult performance, making the Chinese sorting system unfair.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012" ], "temporal_scope": "Normative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "child development", "testing", "fairness" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 427.71, "end": 463.668, "time_label": "7:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "a very unfair system because, you know, the development trajectory of kids, of any adult, it's not a linear trajectory. You don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0012", "segment_id": "seg-0012", "start": 463.668, "end": 476.43, "time_label": "7:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And you don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. So, it's a really unfair, elitist system." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says affluent Chinese families increasingly choose Canada, New Zealand, and the United States because they believe the domestic school system is hurting their child's curiosity, creativity, and imagination.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016" ], "temporal_scope": "Current social trend on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "emigration", "middle class", "creativity", "school pressure" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Chinese schools kill a child's curiosity, creativity, imagination, and empathy within one or two years of entry.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis on 2014-06-19 based on Jiang's school visits.", "topic_tags": [ "curiosity", "empathy", "primary school", "childhood" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0018", "segment_id": "seg-0018", "start": 695.88, "end": 704.86, "time_label": "11:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And it was really heartbreaking for me to see when I visit these schools. But that is a real issue for Chinese parents, to see their kids die like this." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says education reform is now seen across China as urgent and as something that will determine the country's future.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "education reform", "China's future" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says teachers genuinely want the best for students but still double down on test training because success in the system is measured by exam performance and they fear students will fall behind otherwise.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "tests", "Gaokao loyalty", "classroom incentives" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0023", "segment_id": "seg-0023", "start": 840.3, "end": 898.24, "time_label": "14:00", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well, I mean, most teachers that I know, most teachers that I've interviewed and who I've met want the best possible future for their students. That's why they enter the teaching profession. That's their pride as teachi..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says the reform impasse is partly a communication failure between top-level reformers and grassroots families and educators.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024" ], "temporal_scope": "Current process diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "communication", "grassroots", "reform politics" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "segment_id": "seg-0024", "start": 898.44, "end": 925.84, "time_label": "14:58", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "even though from the top and from Beijing, from very wealthy parents and from top educators, there's this real push for education reform in China, at the grassroots level, there's a lot of concern, there's a lot of skep..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says many Chinese parents treat study abroad as a panacea that can turn an underperforming child into a Yale-or-Harvard success story and future innovator.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "temporal_scope": "Current parental mentality described on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "study abroad", "parents", "myth", "elite aspiration" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He argues the Chinese school system trains students to avoid questions, avoid standing out, and avoid independent thinking, which makes adaptation to American schools emotionally difficult.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "China", "questions", "independence", "adaptation" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says the outbound trend has shifted over the prior five to ten years from college-only moves toward high school, junior high, and family immigration, and that these earlier movers adapt better.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "temporal_scope": "Trend description on 2014-06-19 covering roughly the prior 5-10 years.", "topic_tags": [ "trend", "high school", "junior high", "immigration" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1052.63, "end": 1094.57, "time_label": "17:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah. So what we're finding is that maybe like five, 10 years ago, the trend was, as you say, moving... The trend was these Chinese students... These Chinese students moving to America for college, but now parents are f..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues many Chinese students going to the United States are not top performers but students who failed to get into elite Chinese universities and are academically underprepared for success abroad.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031" ], "temporal_scope": "Current diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "elite universities", "academic preparation", "United States" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says many American universities recruiting Chinese students are not equipped to support them, while American higher education itself faces student-debt and completion-rate problems that make Chinese enrollment only a temporary bandage.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "support", "student debt", "graduation", "temporary solution" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0032", "segment_id": "seg-0032", "start": 1176.16, "end": 1232.64, "time_label": "19:36", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But the problem is... The problem is that these schools are not equipped to deal with Chinese students. So I mean, I visit these schools and these Chinese students go to America and they're given no support. So these st..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0033", "segment_id": "seg-0033", "start": 1233.2, "end": 1238.2, "time_label": "20:33", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So I don't think this is a marriage made in heaven. I think there's a problem. There's some real serious issues that we need to look at." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says American universities recruiting in China are too focused on filling as many full-paying seats as possible and not focused enough on student fit or support.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "recruitment", "full-paying students", "student fit", "support" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues public state universities have abandoned their middle-class and democratic public mission in favor of a more corporatist mentality.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional criticism on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "public mission", "democracy", "corporatist mentality", "state universities" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1340.54, "time_label": "21:51", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more a corporatist mentality. So I think that first and foremost these schools. I think that first and foremost these schools. Indiana, Ohio...." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang argues Chinese and East Asian students do well in algorithmic school environments but struggle more when entering society, starting companies, or working on open-ended projects in multicultural settings.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "algorithmic tasks", "multicultural environments", "companies", "open-ended work" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "time_label": "22:44", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "time_label": "23:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now i..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says China has an abundance of accountants and computer programmers but a shortage of good managers, entrepreneurs, and creative thinkers.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039" ], "temporal_scope": "Current labor-market diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "managers", "entrepreneurs", "creative thinkers", "programmers" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0039", "segment_id": "seg-0039", "start": 1423.35, "end": 1448.51, "time_label": "23:43", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "make mistakes but when they enter society when they start companies or when they are forced to work on open -ended projects in multicultural environments they don't do so well there's a real problem in China right now i..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says China currently spends large sums retraining new college graduates for two to four years because employers find them unprepared for the workplace.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044" ], "temporal_scope": "Current labor-market diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "graduates", "retraining", "employers", "workplace skills" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0044", "segment_id": "seg-0044", "start": 1532.96, "end": 1587.1, "time_label": "25:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "would make the argument that actually the cost of educating a child in the daycare system is going to be a lot less expensive than in the university system. What we're finding in China right now is a lot of funding a lo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He contrasts Finland's mentality of empowering each child with what he describes as a Chinese mentality of the rich protecting themselves and neglecting the rest of society.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative moral diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "empowerment", "rich", "society", "Finland" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0045", "segment_id": "seg-0045", "start": 1587.24, "end": 1605.44, "time_label": "26:27", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "But it's a very different mentality. The mentality in Finland is how can we make sure that each of our kids is empowered to do well in life. Whereas in China it's basically the rich looking out for themselves and basica..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says China has a serious empathy problem, illustrated by weak concern for strangers and by social bonds that function inside kin or guanxi networks more than across society at large.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048" ], "temporal_scope": "Current social diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "strangers", "guanxi", "social bonds", "China" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people yo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says misunderstanding between China and the rest of the world persists because China cannot understand how the rest of the world thinks and is seen externally as a black box.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "temporal_scope": "Current geopolitical-cultural diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "misunderstanding", "black box", "rest of the world", "China" ], "claim_type": "diagnosis", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "other_claims": [ { "claim": "Jiang says PISA functions as a test of a nation's education system and that Shanghai ranked first in both the 2009 and 2012 cycles.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "temporal_scope": "Background explanation given on 2014-06-19 about the 2009 and 2012 PISA rounds.", "topic_tags": [ "PISA", "Shanghai", "education comparison" ], "claim_type": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says teachers discipline questioning itself, teaching students that asking questions marks them as troublemakers.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017" ], "temporal_scope": "Observed classroom pattern reported on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "teachers", "questions", "discipline", "obedience" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0017", "segment_id": "seg-0017", "start": 635.01, "end": 695.7, "time_label": "10:35", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "whatever empathy the child has before he or she enters the school system is killed within one or two years. So I've been to... The grim picture. Well, I've been to elementary schools in China. And I sit on... I sit in o..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says a 2010 education reform blueprint called for more individuality, creativity, freedom, less homework, and more time for children to play and explore their interests.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "temporal_scope": "Retrospective description on 2014-06-19 of a 2010 reform blueprint.", "topic_tags": [ "2010 reform blueprint", "individuality", "creativity", "freedom" ], "claim_type": "other", "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang says Chinese students placed into American classrooms after being shaped by the Chinese system often become socially alienated from professors and classmates.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027" ], "temporal_scope": "Observed comparative pattern reported on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "social alienation", "professors", "classmates", "study abroad" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0027", "segment_id": "seg-0027", "start": 997.11, "end": 1041.57, "time_label": "16:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "In China, the Chinese school system does not allow you to ask... Does not permit you to ask questions, doesn't want you to think for yourself, doesn't want you to stand out. So these kids go to America, and suddenly, in..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "He says Finnish children can enroll from about eight months old in a free public daycare system staffed by well-educated teachers regardless of family wealth.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041" ], "temporal_scope": "Current institutional description on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "daycare", "public provision", "teachers", "equity" ], "claim_type": "evidence", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "claim": "Jiang defines empathy as the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes and says Finnish schools teach it explicitly from childhood while Chinese education has historically not emphasized it.", "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "temporal_scope": "Comparative cultural-educational diagnosis on 2014-06-19.", "topic_tags": [ "empathy", "Finland", "China", "definition" ], "claim_type": "definition", "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "glossary_terms": [ { "term": "America's Sputnik moment", "usages": [ "Jiang's label for the U.S. panic after Shanghai topped PISA, invoking a national wake-up shock." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." } ] }, { "term": "corporatist mentality", "usages": [ "Jiang's label for public universities behaving like revenue-maximizing firms instead of institutions serving a public educational mission." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0036", "segment_id": "seg-0036", "start": 1311.96, "end": 1340.54, "time_label": "21:51", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "And they've basically forsaken their public school mission and moving towards more a corporatist mentality. So I think that first and foremost these schools. I think that first and foremost these schools. Indiana, Ohio...." } ] }, { "term": "education reform blueprint", "usages": [ "Jiang's name for the publicly launched reform agenda that called for more individuality, creativity, freedom, and less homework in Chinese schools." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." } ] }, { "term": "empathy", "usages": [ "The ability to put yourself in another person's shoes, treated by Jiang as a teachable civic and educational capacity rather than a soft extra." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." } ] }, { "term": "Gaokao", "usages": [ "China's national college entrance examination, treated here as the main mechanism for distributing scarce higher-education opportunity." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0013", "segment_id": "seg-0013", "start": 476.67, "end": 494.37, "time_label": "7:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "It's also a very high pressure system. There is an exam system here called Gaokao, which is the university entrance exam across the country and everything is geared, as you say, from kindergarten upwards to getting good..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." } ] }, { "term": "grassroots", "usages": [ "The less affluent parents, teachers, and local actors who experience reform as risk rather than liberation." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0024", "segment_id": "seg-0024", "start": 898.44, "end": 925.84, "time_label": "14:58", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "even though from the top and from Beijing, from very wealthy parents and from top educators, there's this real push for education reform in China, at the grassroots level, there's a lot of concern, there's a lot of skep..." } ] }, { "term": "PISA", "usages": [ "The Programme for International Student Assessment, treated here as a comparative test of national education systems." ], "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003" ], "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0001", "segment_id": "seg-0001", "start": 25.68, "end": 79.353, "time_label": "0:25", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "Welcome to On the Level, broadcasting from the Blue Ocean Network studios here in Beijing. My name is Fergus Thompson. Every three years, the results from the PISA assessment, that's the Programme for International Stud..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." } ] } ], "chronology_notes": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005" ], "note": "This 2014 interview looks back on Shanghai's 2009 and 2012 PISA wins and the 2010 American reaction to Shanghai's first-place result.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0003", "segment_id": "seg-0003", "start": 119.2, "end": 183.22, "time_label": "1:59", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Sure. Every three years, the OECD, working with governments around the world, administer the Programme for International Student Assessment. And it's a test of a nation's education system. And for the past two PISAs, th..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0005", "segment_id": "seg-0005", "start": 192.36, "end": 262.94, "time_label": "3:12", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah, I mean, when Shanghai placed first in 2010, when it was announced in 2010 that Shanghai was number one, there was a meteor firestorm in the United States. And they called it America's Sputnik moment. And the idea..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016" ], "note": "By 2014 Jiang describes both a fully entrenched Gaokao pressure system and a recent countertrend of wealthy families emigrating or sending children abroad to escape it.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0014", "segment_id": "seg-0014", "start": 494.71, "end": 567.43, "time_label": "8:14", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "The Gaokao, which translates into the National College Entrance Examination in English, so in June, early June, for three days, over the course of six subjects, a student takes tests, and depending on his performance on..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0016", "segment_id": "seg-0016", "start": 580.19, "end": 634.63, "time_label": "9:40", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "That's a great question, and that's really the paradox of China's school system right now, because, as you say, because of PISA, Shanghai is considered the envy of all educators and teachers and parents around the world..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "note": "Jiang situates the reform fight in 2014 as downstream of a publicly announced 2010 education reform blueprint.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029" ], "note": "The host frames outbound Chinese study as having tripled over the previous decade, while Jiang says the mix has shifted over roughly the prior five to ten years from college toward earlier schooling and immigration.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0025", "segment_id": "seg-0025", "start": 926.2, "end": 941.82, "time_label": "15:26", "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "excerpt": "As you mentioned earlier, many Chinese students do head abroad. The number going to study abroad has tripled in a decade. What sort of problems do you see Chinese students facing when they go outside China to study, par..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0029", "segment_id": "seg-0029", "start": 1052.63, "end": 1094.57, "time_label": "17:32", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah. So what we're finding is that maybe like five, 10 years ago, the trend was, as you say, moving... The trend was these Chinese students... These Chinese students moving to America for college, but now parents are f..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035" ], "note": "Jiang's recruitment critique is anchored in the recession-era U.S. funding squeeze he describes as still shaping state-university behavior in 2014.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0031", "segment_id": "seg-0031", "start": 1117.07, "end": 1175.84, "time_label": "18:37", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I think that a lot of people believe... made in heaven, but if you actually look at what's happening, it's a marriage made in hell. And the reason why is that a lot of these Chinese students are going to America because..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0035", "segment_id": "seg-0035", "start": 1256.72, "end": 1311.64, "time_label": "20:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Well right now the issue in this process is that you have Chinese students who want to go abroad. And you have American schools desperate for money. So a lot of the emphasis is on trying to fill as many spots as possibl..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047" ], "note": "Jiang's example of the injured child and passive bystanders is described as a news story from roughly three years before this 2014 interview.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "medium", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0047", "segment_id": "seg-0047", "start": 1625.72, "end": 1675.94, "time_label": "27:05", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Yeah I mean I love talking about empathy. Empathy is something that I discovered that was really emphasized in the Finnish school system. So when I went to Finland at you know starting grade six kids were being taught t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049" ], "note": "The closing answer shifts from present educational diagnosis into a future-oriented argument about the kind of students a global economy and China's future rise will require.", "possible_update_to_prior_position": false, "confidence": "high", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0049", "segment_id": "seg-0049", "start": 1727.52, "end": 1774.67, "time_label": "28:47", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "are able to work with other cultures but not just work with other cultures also manage other cultures as well and some of that Finland does very well because they emphasize empathy it's something that China is gonna str..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ], "uncertainty_notes": [ { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006" ], "note": "ASR noise appears in phrases like 'engineers in the future ... are going to reproduce in East Asia' and 'hang-wrangling,' but the underlying contrast about STEM production and U.S. dysfunction is still recoverable.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0006", "segment_id": "seg-0006", "start": 262.96, "end": 293.26, "time_label": "4:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There's a respect for teachers. That doesn't really exist anymore in North America or in Europe. And kids love math. They love the sciences. A lot of engineers in the future for the global economy are going to reproduce..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011" ], "note": "The long repetition of the age-six versus age-18 line appears to be ASR duplication rather than deliberate rhetorical repetition, but the substantive point about non-linear development is clear.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0011", "segment_id": "seg-0011", "start": 427.71, "end": 463.668, "time_label": "7:07", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "a very unfair system because, you know, the development trajectory of kids, of any adult, it's not a linear trajectory. You don't know how a kid is going to perform at age 18 based on his test scores at age six. And you..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020" ], "note": "The transcript identifies the official only as 'Prime Minister Wang...' with an incomplete name, so the summary keeps the reform blueprint claim without over-specifying the officeholder.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0020", "segment_id": "seg-0020", "start": 728.1, "end": 787.8, "time_label": "12:08", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "Everyone in China recognizes there has to be education reform in China now. It's urgent, it's necessary, and it's going to determine the future of China. In 2010, Prime Minister Wang... Prime Minister Wang launched to t..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026" ], "note": "The aside about avoiding the pressure system contains ASR noise ('barcos'), but the substantive point is that parents think overseas study can bypass Chinese educational pressure.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0026", "segment_id": "seg-0026", "start": 941.82, "end": 996.83, "time_label": "15:41", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "So a lot of Chinese parents believe that study abroad is a panacea to all China's education problems, that if I send my kid, who's not doing very well in the Chinese school system, and I send him off to the United State..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038" ], "note": "The ASR renders one test acronym as 'PSAP'; from context Jiang appears to be referring back to PISA while broadening the point to SAT-style examinations in general.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0038", "segment_id": "seg-0038", "start": 1364.18, "end": 1423.35, "time_label": "22:44", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "controversial question and this is my own personal opinion but I feel that there's a real emphasis on outcomes there's a very utilitarian mentality so Asians love tests if you look at the PSAP but not just the PSAP you..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] }, { "refs": [ "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048" ], "note": "ASR renders some terms imperfectly, including likely 'TIMSS' as 'TIMS' and 'guanxi' as 'Guangxi,' but the underlying institutional and social contrasts are clear.", "refs_detail": [ { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0041", "segment_id": "seg-0041", "start": 1462.17, "end": 1515.5, "time_label": "24:22", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "I believe there's a lot the Chinese school system can learn from Finland there are many reasons why the Finland does very well on international assessment. There are many reasons why the Finland does very well on intern..." }, { "ref": "video:interview-irnhbw6w7we@transcript:v1#seg-0048", "segment_id": "seg-0048", "start": 1676.08, "end": 1727.52, "time_label": "27:56", "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "excerpt": "There was real no emotional attachment to strangers. Now in China there's a lot like emotional attachment to your relatives and the people you know in your Guangxi network but there's really little empathy for people yo..." } ], "lens_points": [], "lens_points_detail": [] } ] }